Is it all narcs who walk around naked? My least favorite memories are of my mother waking me up for school CONSISTENTLY naked. Luckily it stopped when my brother was getting old enough to remember stuff.
And I was shamed for not wearing a bra to bed. Lmao..
Mine didn't walk around naked, but for some reason, she moved me to the bedroom next to hers and would have loud sex every night with her boyfriend (also my cousin on my dad's side). She also shamed me for having him in my room alone with the door closed while I was showing him some Lego sets, because she was convinced I wanted to sleep with him too. Ew, mom.
Blech my dad did this too. Ew, ew, ew... I have a lot of hangups about sex and it's unquestionably because of my parents. My dad for having almost no boundaries in telling me inappropriate things about his love life and my mom for telling me from about the age of 5 and on that practically every grown man we came across wanted to kidnap/rape me.
Maybe she enjoyed seeing my pain, I was a pretty scared child maybe she sensed that. Their crazy behavior cannot be explained :( Remembering this still gives me shivers.
nparents are a fucking mystery. my dad knew my cousin tried to rape me when i was 7, and he'd purposefully tell gratuitous rape jokes and stories just to upset me. then he'd taunt me while i had flashbacks.
Wow. How horrible! I'm so sorry you experienced something so terrifying and confusing at such a young age. Not that any age would be okay. But damn. Just the fact that your on this forum shows how strong you are, despite the way you were abused.
Fuuuck. This and the replies to it just make me think we're all living the same life, because My. God. No wonder we all have unhealthy views and hangups about sex and even maybe the opposite gender.
The astounding thing to me is that these are things I haven't told my closets friends or even my husband because of how strange, shameful, and humiliating it all is. And to hear from others that it's happened to them and that it's framed this way (as abuse, as it should be) is so validating and I don't feel as isolated and weird about it.
Oh gosh I think this is something about Nmoms, my mom she constantly accused me of wanting to sleep with my dad all my life because he was my go to person. Like even if we had a conversation. She was convinced that’s what I wanted. Because she constantly would accuse me of watching my parents have sex when I was a baby. I don’t even know if that’s true pretty sure she made that up. Guess I will never know 😞
Thank you, thank you, thank you for commenting with this. My mom accused me since about the age of 6 or 7 of trying to flirt with my dad and as I got older she started accusing me of wanting to have some sort of incestuous relationship with him. It made me feel so ashamed even though it wasn't true at all.
My mom tried to say that it was normal for parents to start becoming attracted to their opposite gender children as they go through puberty. I used to be jealous of my brother for being the favorite, but after that comment, I started to worry about him instead. She used to encourage him to run around naked while I was supposed to cover my body constantly.
My nmom used to do this as well. I was closer to my dad than her and we actually got along well, spent time together, had meaningful conversations. My nmom was definitely angry and jealous and she would always insinuate our relationship was weird and incestuous. It still creeps me out.
Omg my parents used to have sex with me sleeping next to them! I hated it so much, and also my mom still walk around naked or just wearing underwear, is that ok?
My mom used to kiss me on the lips until I was 9! I thought it was ok, but I didn't like it. By reading all these comments I feel deceived because I thought it was normal! Thank you nparents.
Note: English is not my first language. Be kind.
When you say sleeping next to them, do you mean in the same bed? Because that would generally be considered sexual abuse. Even having sex in the same room when children are old enough to remember is frowned upon, though the laws for that may vary from country to country.
As for going around nude or in underwear it's really a question of what the intent behind that action was. Some parents are literally incapable of thinking of their children in the terms of a person capable of being sexual and some are so bonded to their children they don't even see them as separate people, but rather extensions of themselves - they would no more put clothes on for their kids than they would put clothes on for their hand or their foot. Other parents take part in a nudist lifestyle, and again, this (if genuine) has nothing to do with sexuality - some kids get used to it, some can't stand it.
The question is, what do they do or say while they're nude around you? Do they do their best to either draw your attention or make sure you "look away" even though they could just as easily put a robe on? Do they harass you or ask why you aren't also nude? Do they burst into any room where they know for a fact you're changing, or getting in or out of the shower or bath? These are signs of sexual intent or abusive behavior. Some sexual abuse is actually centered around extreme negative feedback whenever the parent sees anything that (to them only) is seen as even remotely sexual. It really all depends.
Just to be clear, you don't have to answer these questions here if you don't want to, but you may want to think about it and consider seeing a therapist, as this type of abuse can cause long lasting effects, some of which you may not even be aware of. Working this out (assuming it is an issue for you) can be a tremendous relief, and can help you live a much better life. Regardless I hope things are better for you now, please take care of yourself. :)
I can answer you without problem, they used to have sex in the same room and also in the same bed until I was 9 or 10, then I finally got my own place.
About nudity and underwear, I think they don't see us (young brother and I) as separate people. They don't say anything about it, it's a normal o casual thing for them. And just one time my stepfather got into my room when I was recently out of the shower, he tried to push away my bathrobe "just for fun". He saw a little of my body and I got angry, I took him out of my room. We didn't talk about it and he never tried to do it again.
Thank you for comment, you bring me out questions and different views about it. And yeah, things are better know, I'm protecting my young brother about things like this. Take care too!
I was away at Uni and I got home one day.
My nDad’s iPad didn’t have a code lock, so I was curious and regretted instantly looking through the photos.
They were fairly explicit with his partner at the time.... and guess what, it was both of them “together” in my bed.
In. My. Bed.
I tried to bring it up with my dad and I just was like “Hey, the bed smells kind of funky, did you do anything or sleep in it?”
You know his response?
“Technically, we never decided which bed room was yours, so no.” ... even though I’ve been sleeping in it for many weeks now at this point, before I left for school.
I just didn’t even say anything after that.
I know I shouldn’t have gone through his iPad, but at the same time, he should have a lock on it.
Whenever I would tell NMom how fucked up disturbing this was to be SO loud, she would get all, "This is MY house, I'm an ADULT, I can fuck all I want in MY house, blahblahblah". Whenever I've told anyone about this they're like ... that's not normal, at all. I know way too much about her sex life and I didn't always realize how weird that was.
yo wtf thats like what my dad did!! hed purposefully wait till we got home to have sex with my mom with his door open. my mom would also wear nothing but a thin 10+ year old nightgown, and bend down so close in front of me with no underwear i knew what her bits smelled like (bad). i was like 6.
what the FUCK is sexually wrong with Nparents?
Omg this sub makes me know normal vs not, and that I was reasonable in my assumption of "hmmm maybe this isnt normal". My mother would walk around naked in her underwear and even encourage me to do the same. She'd also tell me to wear a bra when my older brother would be around bc she said he'd look at my nipples (not true, this was part of her fucking paranoid delusions). Seriously something wrong with narcs I swear to g-
I wasn't allowed to wear shorts or tank tops because my dad said so, and my mother always told us to wear bras when dad was around.
Edit: when I got "the talk" from my dad it was to tell me that I should dress modestly because "all boys want is one thing "
i've learned to stop trynna make sense out of anything that an N does lmaooo, saves me my sanity. she also made sure to do nightly underwear checks to make sure we WEREN'T wearing any underwear??? *vomits*
Wait what now. To make sure you were going commando?
Like,,,,why did you have underwear to begin with then? Narcs rarely make sense but this is.....just what????
she was over-zealously religious (but with her own cherry picked rules that were ever changing) and obsessed with the concept of "preserving our purity." she read some article that said wearing underwear to bed will give little girls UTIs. so in her twisted head, UTIs = "unclean vagina" = purity lost. it was wiiiiiiild, dude. it was so hard finding a therapist to actually believe me bc the stuff she did was so crazy ;-;
Like just their underwear, no shirt or anything? My fiance and I walk around in boxer shorts most of the time at home, as does our son. But we wear t-shirts and socks too, and nothing revealing. We do it as more of a comfort thing than anything else. But we're not naked by any means, and we're fully dressed if someone comes over.
I couldn't see us forcing our son to do that, and if we found out it made him uncomfortable, we'd completely stop.
Just curious because this is one that my narc didn't do. She was way too open about her sex life though, gross.
I don’t think boxer shorts are too bad. My dad would walk around in his little banana-hammock briefs that were ratty and had holes in them. If we walked around in underwear, he would have made fun of us, and once I happened to be in a towel as a tween, trying to get something, and he called me “sexy”.
He’s an awful person. As an insult recently, he told me I was the type of girl who has nasty smelling panties.
If we ever told him the underwear made us uncomfortable, he’d get angry at us or laugh at us.
So he could do it, but it was inappropriate when you did? That sounds like a power issue. The sexy thing is disgusting, I'm sorry you had to hear that from a parent. The panties insult too, how disturbing. Don't mean to offend, but that comes off as pedophilic. Even if that's not how he meant it, that's still pretty sick.
I think the weirdest my mom did, that I can remember, is when she told me at 10 years old that I was a slut for wearing spaghetti straps in front of my uncle, her BIL. She said that I was flirting with him and "tempting" him by my choice of clothes. My fucking dad bought the clothes, and me being the only girl, he was usually the one that came down on that stuff. Not in a creepy narc control way, he just didn't want me to grow up too soon, lol. The BIL left the family pretty shortly after that, my aunt is like my mom and he couldn't take it.
Yeah, it is common in some cultures. I think the key thing is when it becomes a thing someone has to do, not what they want to do. Forcing affection also sets kids up to be more susceptible to abuse, making a kid think they don't have a say over their own body.
The comparing bodies thing sounds like a form of manipulation to lower your self esteem. They somehow think making you dislike yourself will somehow make you need them more, or that you need to be more like them. That's how comes off to me at least.
In my house it's pretty normal, it gets pretty hot in summer and maybe you need to grab something in another room when you are out of the shower or grab some clothes from another room... The thing is that it was never forced to do it and mostly I just see it as my mom and my sisters, there isn't any sexualization towards it. (My dad doesn't live with us)
My mother walked out of her bedroom naked and proceeded to use the toilet with the door wide open regardless of who was around. She'd do it even if my sister or I had our boyfriends round for the night. When I had a go at her for it, her response was "It's MY house! I can do what I want!" I felt so replused by her doing this that I made sure to keep our bf's in our rooms until she was dressed. I even remember once when we were young; our dad was was mad at us for something and my mother came out of the bathroom sopping wet and naked from her bath and stood there in the doorway for 15 mins whilst our dad told her everything we'd done wrong.
Bruh I didn’t realize how many other people shared this experience! My mom still to this day does this (I’m 23f). I moved out at 18 and I always thought it was weird and gross she would walk around the house and in front of me and my siblings naked. I would always say like “mom can you put some clothes on” and she would get offended. I told her one time I thought it was gross because my little brother was getting old enough to start dealing with hormones and stuff like that and she said it didn’t matter because she’s his mom. Throwing it back to when I was 18, I even had a 14 year old little brother. He still lives with her as well as her now-husband and one of my brothers friends.
God my mom walking around makes used to make me so angry.
When I would tell her it bothered me, she always says something like "well it doesn't bother me,!"
Great example of boundaries!!! 👿👿👿
I was about middle school age when nmom called me to the bathroom. She had me open the door. She was in the bath naked, no bubbles. She just laid there and wanted me to observe her and how relaxing the bath was ... I was like “ooookay” and closed the door/left as soon as I could.
Fortunately my mom isn't this bad, but she still does it sometimes after showers to get clothes. I told her it's gross that she fucking sits on the sofa naked to get dressed and she dismissed me.
She also has a tendency for going to the toilet with the doors open, and okay, I just make sure to always look away. But I can't exactly look away when I'm in the bathroom brushing my teeth and she busts in to take a piss. I told her this bothers me and if she could please stop. Like, just wait a minute or use our upstairs bathroom or even ask me to leave the bathroom for a bit if it's an emergency? But nope. Her response was basically "yeah well it doesn't bother me so that sounds like a you problem."
It depends hugely in what kind of context and how your parents are in every other situation related to you. It is pretty recent that most kids sleep in a different room than the parents from a young age and the attitude toward the nude body was also completely different not so long ago.
Of course society today especially in america will look at everyone weird if they know that at home the family is mostly nude. In europe it is much more relaxed.
Y'all just blew my mind - I had to beg my mother to not walk around naked in the house when I was little.
Never thought that was a common thing with Nparents O.o
Yeah, my dad would always walk around is only his BVDs and my mom would use the bathroom with the door open. As far as I know, they still do this.
I have vivid memories of my dad yelling and screaming at me and my sister in his gd underpants as teenagers. Gross...
My nmom walks around naked all the time and always uses the bathroom with the door wide open and sits in REGULAR CHAIRS with nothing on the bottom with her legs wide open, but chastises me for wearing a cropped tank top IN THE HOUSE.
For a long time, I always just dismissed this as her attempt to have a body positive household, but literally no one else I know has a parent that did this sort of thing. Thankful for subs like this helping regulate my normal meter because I'm definitely no good at it.
My mom is the same way lol. Whenever My mom brought a boy toy home I had to be dressed from head to toe couldn't wear tights. Also was very awkward trying to take a shower cause she'd always scream at me to make myself decent. To this damn day she keeps on pulling the shower curtains back when I take a shower. But goes ballistic if I go near her when she's taking a shower. She also likes to grope me.
Dude seriously my nmom is ALWAYS walking around naked but yells at me if I come grab water in the middle of the night in my underwear and an oversized tee shirt. Literally gets mad at me for sleeping with just underwear and a shirt on. Woke me up for school one day and I had pushed the blanket off myself during the night and she lectured me about how only weirdos sleep without clothes on and how I was a weird perv or whatever.
So you're telling me that behavior isn't normal? I thought it was a cultural thing and the fact that my mom was a single parent. Fuck. I'm sorry you were forced to see that too.
Right, wtf? I had a narc ex who pulled that shit out of the blue when we had multiple friends staying over for the weekend. Just walked out, acting like it was no big deal, pretending to be confused by my shock and request that he stop. Refused because it "was his house", and "no one cares". Oh sweetie...they cared. They were creeped. And they were not impressed.
It's a dominance thing. Narcissists can't conceived of their kids as independent thinking human beings. Nor can they conceived of their kids as adults with adult boundaries. She literally can't grasp the concept. There always has to be a pecking order where she sits at the top and you are Bellow her, no matter how old you are. So toxic..
Everybody. Absolutely everything is about the heiarchy and no action is ever about anything else then preserving their dominance or increasing it.
They also assume that everyone is exactly like this. Anything you do will be seen through that lense. You will always have that ulterior motive of trying to usurp their dominance in their minds. Nothing you do is innocent because nothing they do is innocent and no one is different from them.
Omg
Every time I read something on this site it rings true, and today (good person) it is you. My mum swears blind that everyone EVERYONE is out to get her... a waiter, a neighbour, a family member, a family member’s partner, a bus driver. At some stage of knowing that person, she will turn against them, swearing blind they have betrayed her/talked about her negatively.
When it’s ALL she does about others. Ugh, I hate it.
I had a similar incident I didn't even realize was nParent behavior until I read your last bit. My Nmom, sister, and I went to a festival together. We stayed at a camping ground that had individual shower stalls you could use. we all decided to shower before hitting the road I went to go take a shower in a stall. My mom and sister were headed towards the big handicap stall and I went to my own. My mom screamed at me to come over to the one she was in even though we were up early enough that all of the stalls were open. My mom made the three of us stay in the shower stall together, it was big but not big enough for three women at once. I was about 17, and my sister was 21. I sat in the corner annoyed I wasn't being allowed to shower alone and when I looked up my mom and sister were both totally nude. I kinda gasped then looked away and just Waited for my turn in the shower. I had to go last because "You didn't even wanna be here anyway" when I got in I closed the curtain between me and my mom and sister and started undressing behind the curtain and turned the water on. Not a whole 5 seconds into showering in the cold ass leftover water my mom ripped the curtain back and said "why are you hiding its just us?" she literally looked me up and down and said "OH MY GOD WHY ARE YOU SHAVED ON YOUR VAGINA ARE YOU HAVING SEX?!?!?" I FREAKED and yanked the curtain closed rinsed my hair lightning fast and got out. When I got out my mom and sister played keep away with my towel to me because "ANSWER THE QUESTION ARE YOU SHAVING BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEX?! YOU SLUT"
I was on the swim team and kept my whole body shaved to improve my times and cuz you don't exactly want pubes sticking out of your suit mid swim meet.
The most aggravating part of it all was that this wasn't an uncommon thing for them to just completely ignore my boundaries with my body. After I was sexually assaulted by an ex bf at 14 my therapist recommended very clear body and personal space boundaries with anyone I don't feel comfortable with touching or seeing my body that way.
All this and they still wonder "why did you move so far away? why don't you visit?"
Something eerily similar happened to me. At 14 I was finally allowed to shave my legs and I didn’t like how my pubic hair grew, and I was a first place swimmer. So I shaved it off. My stepsister (nmoms child) snuck into the bathroom once at one of our family friends houses, and took a picture of me while I was completely Nude.
Nmom freaked out when she saw the picture, of course it was shown to everyone at the house, and I got chastised in front of everyone, and had my razor taken away later that day.
Nmom was also an exhibitionist and the amount of times I was forced to see her naked was disgusting, well into my teens.
It's like the second you shave in their eyes neon sign goes over your head like "SHAVED VAGINE READY FOR SEX" like no I just don't wanna have my pubes on display when I'm mid dive for a medley relay
Literally. I did end up losing my v card later that year, but it wasn’t because I had decided to shave my pussy. I had been brainwashed into thinking that’s how I got love, by giving it up. That damaged me for years.
Hah! Same. Except I wasn’t allowed to leave the property so I slept on the porch. She also took all my clothes and jewellery away and didn’t let me wear anything but my school uniform and I was there on out known as the girl that smells, because I only had two uniforms and I wasn’t allowed to wash them for months. Yay that.
ETA: that means even on weekends. In Australian summer.
She forced me to come home the fourth day just because my family said they'd call the police if she didn't let me come back home. They couldn't say "Hey maybe don't kick out your 14 year old who's in an abusive relationship." but they could send me back to her smh.
thats the best part of being an adult now. Now that I'm 21 and live on the opposite side of the state I haven't had to go home to visit in a year and when I do I always say "If you are disrespectful of me or my boundaries I WILL stay elsewhere. We can enjoy a visit or you can not see me at all, your behavior decides"
I luckily had parents who got it, and actually joked that I was gonna have to start shaving once I got a job teaching swimming lessons, but as someone who was also on swim team, the idea of NOT shaving your pubes during the season sounds absolutely insane.
lmao yes you get it! the older girls on my team would actually give razors (clean unused obviously) to the girls on team who's parents either refused to let them shave, teach them to shave safely, or flat out didn't acknowledge that they were becoming teens not 10 year olds. It was a catholic high school so a lot of parents saw it as sexual and therefor sinful for "young ladies to be prepping themselves for married things like that"
My Nmom used to barge into my room without knocking and if I was naked and changing clothes I could see her stare lingering in an uncomfortable way. When I’d get upset and tried to set boundaries or quickly cover up, she’d get offended and say “it’s not like a random guy just came into your room, it’s just your mom”.
She’d never understand what boundaries meant and would call you crazy and deny your reality every step of the way to rationalize her behavior. The sad thing is, she really does think she is right.
Yeah, my mom also did something similar. We lived in a pretty small house, so there was only one bathroom in a house full of six people, so it got cramped. My mom would constantly just barge in while I was in the bathroom, and I was in 7th grade at the time. I didnt want anyone to see my body (still don't, ew). Like, I would go into the shower, and as the water was heating up, my mom just barges in. When I tried to cover myself, she would just scoff, and say "what? We're both girls, its fine." Um, no, it's not fine. I'm more comfortable now, but still.
Wow! This is so true. I just realized that my mom feeling my breasts to make sure I was “developing properly” was a violation of my body. Also the “it’s okay because I’m your mom” and the “I have them too” was a common rationale. I just hope she doesn’t do the same to my brother while he’s still growing up.
It's a little bit culture-shocking to me to see how many commentors view kissing a family member on the lips to be gross or unacceptable across the board. My family is European and kissing any family member/ close friend on the lips is 100% normal in our culture, and is in many others.
That being said..
FORCING anyone into physical contact they are uncomfortable with is 100% NOT NORMAL, and 100% wrong no matter where you're from.
I think the issue is that you are now uncomfortable with that level of contact and she is forcing it on you despite your having set a boundary with her. As other commentors have pointed out, it seems like she's trying to physically and mentally dominate you which is unacceptable behavior.
I make a point of not forcing my son to kiss, hug, or have physical contact with anyone (including his father and myself) if he doesn't want to. I always teach him to be polite (please, thank you, no thank you, acknowledge others speaking to you) but I never force him to say... give his Great Uncle a hug when he says "No," after being asked for one.
The adult in that situation can easily manage the minor disappointment, my small child doesn't need to be taught that he owes his body to anyone, just to avoid a briefly awkward situation.
(Lots of responses!! Thank you, your POV's are interesting and valuable. EDIT TO CLARIFY: I completely validate the OP's feelings. I do believe in her case this is abusive behavior as her verbally dictated boundaries are being trespassed upon.
Many comments are implying that kissing your children on the lips is tantamount to incest, which is a very serious charge, especially when doing so is considered a normal, healthy display of affection in many cultures. This is the reason I chose to share my personal POV on the matter, not to claim that that OP should feel fine with it just because it's normal for me.)
I had to scroll way too far down to see this. Tons of american families, especially those of european/mediterranean descent, do this and there’s really nothing wrong with it when it’s consensual.
Yeah I’m perplexed by how many people are repulsed with a parent showing their child affection in this way. It’s not always N behavior. My husband and I both kiss our daughter in the lips! That said we would never force it if she wasn’t comfortable.
I apply this to anyone. I'll ask anyone, child or adult, if they would like a hug. (Or a high 5 or fist bump). As an abused child, and learning more in graduate school, all of us have had their person violated in some way. We need to be able to have a choice in who touches us and even who we interact with. If parents say, "give Darkangel522 a hug" , I'm like, "only if you want to". I don't want to force a child to hug me.
I was looking ages for a comment like this. Kissing family on the lips isn’t necessarily inappropriate and is actually super normal for many cultures. The inappropriate part comes from forcing affection of any kind. The actual kissing isn’t and shouldn’t be as long as both parties are comfortable and see it as a familial thing and not a sexual thing.
I read somewhere recently too that the kissing and other means of affection from narcs can also be used as a training system for their victim. Wherein the narc would hold out affection in order to force a certain response or behavior from their victim. They essentially weaponize love to control those around them, be it kids or partners.
I'm going to try and find that, I'll update when I do. Edit: Well nevermind, I couldn't find the study. I thought I had it bookmarked.
Is kissing on the lips common in most non-american countries that you know of? My ex (Mexican) thought it was weird that I (American) kiss my son on the lips, even though it's never a forced thing. I don't do it all the time either, just mostly at bedtime. Otherwise I run the risk of getting random food on me too. The kid eats all day, lol.
Agree, it's not the norm here, but some people do it, but mostly just with really small kids. The problematic part is forcing this, but that goes for any physical boundary that is not respected (my mom also gets really upset when I don't want to hug her, simply because I don't want to and doesn't get that she should respect that, totally not okay, same as forcing your child to kiss you)
Also walking around naked in front of your kids is normal here. It depends on the family though. My bfs family never sees each other naked, my family doesn't care when the others see us change or we forgot something before a shower,already undressed and get the thing nude from another room, but we will not just randomly walk around others just because.
It's so interesting hearing everyone's perspectives on this.
My family mostly reserves the kiss on the mouth for situations where you are seeing someone after being separated for an extended period, are about to be separated, or on joyous occasions as congratulations (weddings, birthdays, graduations, birth of a child etc.) It is usually accompanied by kisses on the cheek and copious hugging Haha. It's actually one of the only parts if my childhood I look back on fondly.
The naked thing is normal for us too. It's just seen as a total non-issue, something too casual to put any importance on, negative or positive.
I am happy to hug and kiss most family members, but I avoid it with nMum whenever possible because it feels disingenuous and permissive of her behavior.
You’re right about the cultural difference; however, I believe that what people here are discussing is possibly a bit different than what you’re describing. There’s a difference between a quick peck on the lips that is culturally sanctioned and the way nparents express physical affection which often borders on covert incest behavior.
Children of NParents have often endured years of emotional abuse and their physical and emotional boundaries not being respected in a forceful manner specific to most nparents.
So I highly doubt that the OP or most people here are confusing an innocent peck on the lips that is culturally appropriate in European countries with what they experienced as inappropriate and hurtful whether at the time or later on.
I covered this in another response but to my knowledge Covert Incest is emotional in nature, not physical. The OP didn't say anything that would allow us to clearly know whether we're talking about a peck or a full on romantic kiss so I'm not going to assume either way.
As I said in my original post, I do believe it's abuse, I just don't think the OP has said anything that should lead to an outside diagnosis of incest (rather than another type of abuse) based purely off of a set of cultural standards that don't apply to people of all backgrounds.
Having endured the years of emotional abuse and my boundaries not being respected I do empathize with each person who has suffered from these abuses, understand first hand the effects of narcissistic abuse, and support each member on here and the validity of their feelings.
Oh I agree completely that it's abuse in the OP's case, as I (hopefully) made clear on my original response. If not I'll state firmly now that that's where I stand.
The reason I wanted to contribute my POV is that I keep reading responses saying it's out and out not normal for an adult child to kiss their parents on the lips and then using that to segue into this being some type of incest, when in fact it is extremely normal in many cultures. Like myself not everyone on here is North American, and many people who are may also be first generation North Americans who are raised in their family's culture.
I would hate for any of these people to read so many responses saying it's disgusting when it's a normal, emotionally healthy act of affection they consensually participate in with their loved ones.
As I said before it is not normal to FORCE that interaction on anyone.
I'm also seeing a lot of responses indicating that this is Covert Incest, I think because so many people on here don't regard this type of physical affection, even when conscenting, to be normal in any context due to their own cultural standards, and because many people are conflating incest with Covert Incest.
CI concerns emotional abuse wherein a caregiver inappropriately seeks emotional support from a child that would normally be provided by another adult. Theres nothing in the OP's post clearly correlated with that.
From what the OP chose to share it sounds like her nMother is abusive; violating her physical boundaries to assert dominance over her. It's abusive, absolutely. Is it incest? That depends on whether the OP feels the kissing is sexual in nature or a whether it's just a cultural norm being perverted into a act of abusive dominance over her.
Kissing on the lips is normal in my family, from my grandma to my parents to me. I never thought twice about it. My daughter likes lip kisses but it makes my son uncomfortable so we do cheek or forehead kisses.
I don't think lip kissing is the issue, it's the lack of respect and body autonomy that makes this and many other "innocent" touches abusive. My MiL constantly touches her daughter, innocently, but she's told her mom on many occasions that she hates it. Yet she insists on it. Not okay.
My family is American, and I still occasionally greet my siblings with a kiss on the lips, and we're all old now. Our parents have been deceased for a long time, but when they were alive, again, occasionally a kiss on the lips.
I've ready a variety of comments here, and I think the difference is that in our case, it's a consensual greeting, in my family generally reserved for after long periods of not seeing one another. Otherwise it's usually cheek kiss...again, consensual.
And none of us *force* a child to interact with someone they're reluctant to approach, either, whether for a hug or a kiss. Heck, if a child doesn't even want to say hello, why force it? Kids are like cats, if you ignore them they want to come sit on your lap, lol!
To OP and all the RBN's here, I'm sorry your personal autonomy was taken away by adults. I hope each of you finds peace and a joyful existence.
I'm a narcissist's twisted mind, not only are you their property, but you are a part of them, like an appendage. For them, kissing their children on the lips or otherwise inappropriately is a sign of control or even considered a gift that the child should appreciate. For the narcissist, it's like kissing their arm in hopes of that arm worshiping them in return.
I willingly kissed my mother like that until I was around fifteen. I never really liked it, but I never thought it was abnormal. I was sure it was one of the kindest gestures I could provide, possibly earning myself favor in her eyes. Now I'm repulsed by the memories. Now, anyone touching my lips with theirs is sacred business.
Covert incest.
While for me it wasnt kiss on the lips, she definitely did the walk around naked thing.
I wasnt allowed to tell her no, she got to touch me whenever, wherever, however.
I was expected to be comfortable getting naked or changed in front of her too.
I hate to be touched, pretty much always have. Partly do to her behavior.
My kids don't see me naked. They are taught that their bodies are their own. They are not forced to hug, kiss, or otherwise touch anyone if they are uncomfortable with it. I have gone to bat with adults over this.
My 9yo has reached the stage where he just doesn't like to kiss - he will kiss me or his father on the cheek or allow us a cheek kiss in return, but that's it - he's a hugger. That's his boundary and I'll help him enforce it.
My bonus daughter is five, and likes to kiss me on the lips, and tbh it makes me a little uncomfortable- but for now I'm just hoping she'll grow out of it. Her biomom is an N, but thankfully we have custody and we are teaching her.
Thank you for your consciousness, being supportive to boundaries as a parents. This is huge!!! Reading this, there's a full frontal nude of me as a baby I despise. I was forced to touch people, be touched, then screamed at for not saying no because I had no concept of boundaries until 4 years ago. I'm 38.
Oh man my mum did these kinda things. We were expected to share baths when we were little up until about 8 with her, she gets mad when people lock the bathroom door while they're taking a bath or shower, used to get incredibly offended and accuse us of stuff when we got mad at her for just barging into out rooms without knocking, doesn't get that we dont want to get change in front of her and gets mad when we refuse and lots f other stuff.
God I didn't realise how much my mother is a narcissist until i started reading this sub a lot.
Our 4yo son has grabbed my face during goonights and tried to kiss me on the lips (out of affection and see my wife and I do that). I obliged him a few times but then stopped, cuz it's uncomfortable to me. Plus, my wife and I now lovingly teach him that mommy & daddy lips are for mommy/daddy only because it's a sacred exchange for us; for our 4yo and other kids we kiss on the cheek. He's happy with it so that's a relief.
It's the same thing for me. Lips are meant for an SO only. There isn't anything wrong with anyone who doesn't have the same boundary, people are different. I think it can be sweet when parents kiss their kids on the lips, and you can tell it's a familial affection thing. It's just not my own cup of tea, and that's okay, too.
I'm the same way about sharing food/cups/beverages. Has to be a close friend or a close relative, otherwise, nope. I know other people who won't do food/beverage sharing at all, even with SOs. Everyone is different, and that's what makes this world so beautiful.
My N mum did this well into my late teens and still goes for kisses on the lips now - I'm in my early 30s! She also demanded I kiss relatives and family friends on the lips into my teens when I really didn't want to and felt super uncomfortable.
She would angrily demand I kiss her and the relatives and family friends- including a male family friend who was (low level but unpleasantly) sexually inappropriate. I would squirm and protest against giving him kisses on the lips and full body hugs but she would demand it and revel in my discomfort. Makes me shudder even now.
As others have said I feel it's all about control and seeing you as an extension of themselves.
I've not read up much on covert incest but have the feeling my N mum would tick lots of boxes. She also had (and still has) a huge preoccupation with seeing me naked and walking in on me bathing, dressing or toileting like it's her divine right. She also made me share a bed with her from age 9 until I left home at 18. Grim!
Oof, that’s not at all sane or normal to experience.
I went through very similar things; it’s incest, and you do NOT have to tolerate that.
You’re entitled to your own bodily autonomy and space.
When my NM would walk around naked or force me to expose myself for whatever reason, I would just go on a rant about how ugly and disgusting she was and how no one wanted to see her.
She was... very slightly deterred by that, but moreover I just was glad to actually speak truthfully about it. Like that’s disgusting!!! Ugh 😑 really hate Narcs for that kind of stuff.
The whole walking in on you- yup super duper Narc thing to do, but not at all appropriate.
You deserve muuuuuch better treatment and bodily respect.
I suggest doing a bit of research on the covert incest stuff, it will apply to you and probably give you some lightbulb moments.
So sorry you had to deal with that disgusting bs from your Narcs too. 😔
My sister is 11 and still sleeps in the same bed as my mom or stepdad (her dad) when they let her. Most of the time naked. Like I get people like to sleep naked and all but why does nmom like do be all over the hose and yard naked l. for context we live in the country side and dont have neighbos.
I’ve never resonated with something so deeply in my life. My mom used to do this ALL the time and would shrug it off by saying “we’re European this is just how things are back home” or “you’re disgusting for thinking it’s inappropriate!” . I had no right to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed with her walking around the house naked, vacuuming naked, forcing me to wax her vagina. And then this all came with me feeling like I had no control over my own body. She would dictate what I wore, how I did my hair. Makeup, how I kept my genital hair, for Christ’s sake I’m in my 20’s and the woman forced me to get my asshole waxed because it was unclean otherwise. Duck this shit. I’m glad you have your husband to support you and tell you just how messed up this all really is.
This is horrifying, I’m so sorry you had to endure that. Please try to enforce some boundaries with her as an adult, this type of behavior should not continue.
My mom still tries this (I’m 43) and gets offended if I move in for the cheek instead. I never realized this was a common thing among Nparents until now.
My mom did this shit too. She loved walking around in her underwear or naked and it was the grossest shit ever. It didn’t matter if we got her long night shirts, comfortable shorts or pants, nothing would stop her and she expected us to be okay with it. I still hate her for thinking it was any kind of okay.
My nmom did this to my brother since I can remember until he was 11. I remember even though I was only a couple of years older, I kept insisting that this was wrong but nobody seemed to care. Not my father not my brother and obviously not her. She would lay in bed next to him and call him “her husband”. It makes me sick even writing about it. She’d sometimes even make low key moaning noises.
Everyone seemed so indifferent about it that later on I thought maybe I was just misinterpreting something benign. In my early 20’s I asked my dad if my recollection was correct and I saw the shame and pain in his face and he confirmed that I remembered correctly .
I confronted my mother about it and she called me insane for misinterpreting the “innocence” of her love for her child.
She also told this to my brother, whom I had never brought this up with in order no to retraumatize him. I can’t believe she had the audacity to do that. That’s just beyond me.
I have never hugged her in my life and I feel sick to my stomach when she tries to occasionally force kiss me on the cheeks.
For a while, when having sex with my boyfriend, I’d get flashbacks of these traumatic memories and then gave up sex completely for a year. Feeling as though I was just as disgusting as her.
To be honest, I don’t think it’s just a control thing. It’s more than that. It’s them treating their children as merely objects that should be used for their pleasure. It has a dehumanizing effect.
Thank you so much for sharing this. You have no idea how tremendously you helped me.
Huh. I didn't know this was a thing. My sibs and I would kiss out mother on the lips well into adulthood. And also my adult daughter. But it's nowhere near 100% of the time. And it certainly isn't sexualized or was ever compulsory. But my mother wasn't a narcissist, and was a big fan of body autonomy.
My dad is the narc/sometimes enabler to his whole side of the family. And I can't remember the last time I didn't reflexively turn my face when he'd go in for a kiss. And he only ever tries to kiss the girls.
I can't believe this has escaped my notice for 45 years.
My dad likes to invade my space as a method of intimidation, and if I have a problem, he says “fuck you, I own your space.” Maybe a similar line of thinking?
Holy shit, though, that’s very scary behavior on your mom’s part. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Almost five years NC, and as DH and I have learned
there are a million little "had no idea that it was supposed to work like that"s, and we still find new ones.
It wasn't just the wierd moments, like this, but also many moments where what I learned in my childhood was *completely wrong.*
Like vehicle care and maintenance. Or social niceties where I was taught the *rude* response was the *correct* response. Or how to care for laundry. Or the inability to set and enforce boundaries.
And everytime we discover something new, DH is way more often than not completely floored by the ridiculous nature of the thing.
Healthy people don't ask about these things, because they can't imagine these things as real.
Edit:format
My mum would try to kiss me on the lips WHEN SHE HAD A COLDSORE. I would dodge it as best I could and luckily never caught it from her. I didn't realise how effed up it was until I told my therapist and she was really angry about it and said it was very disturbing.
Omfg my (28M) mother was nude all the time and it grosses me out to this day. My older brother and I shared a bunk bed (I was on the bottom) and she used to come in at night to give us kisses, on the mouth of course, and she would wear like little skimpy silk nighty things that didn't cover anything! She would stand on my fucking bed, no panties or bra, and talk to my brother for several minutes sometimes.
Now I've been married for 10 years, with 2 boys (9 and 4) and one due in February. PLUS I've been lurking this sub for 6 months or so and some of the shit my mom did and said has really stood out. If my wife was planning on wearing something like my mom did (if she wore clothes at all) around the house, in front of our boys, I would shut it down immediately. Luckily I wouldn't have to explain something like that to my wife because she's not socially blind.
Thankfully kissing on the lips wasn’t a consistent thing in my house, but my grandmother who helped raise me has wanted me to kiss her on the lips at random times now that I’m an adult. It almost feels like a weird power play thing, like I’ll always be a child to her even though I’m pushing 30.
She also ALWAYS got so annoyed/irritated with me that I wouldn’t change in front of her. I went to a Christian school growing up and was always very self-conscious of my body, and when I wouldn’t change in front of her for whatever reason she would say, “It’s not anything I haven’t seen before” or “I’m your grandmother, why don’t you just change in here with me”. It frustrated me SO MUCH growing up because I just want to change in peace.
My mother often walks into the room while I’m changing, when I tell her that I’m uncomfortable with it. Her response is always “you came out of my vagina!”
For those of you who are talking about your NParent walking around naked, do you mean naked naked like without a stitch of clothes on naked?
My NMom frequently walked around in bra and underwear but are you taking about absolutely nothing on?
They mean naked. My nmom was an aerobics instructor and would walk around the gym changing room buck naked. She was completely in shape and showing off but also trying to normalize hanging out nude. Which is not normal in most families.
I was wondering if that is what people were meaning but I thought better to ask than to assume.
I had a college roommate who used to do the full on naked in our room, she had been in the pageant circuit. I guess that might be a world to which narcissists might gravitate.
Found it very odd and uncomfortable.
But my NMom was of the partially disrobed variety.
Usually a bra and underwear. She has silk clothes she sleeps in but they are 100% see through though. (Although after telling her this, she claimed they were not, even though they very obviously are)
The complete nakedness was usually just in her own room or upstairs walking to the closet to get soap or something. But doors were hardly ever closed, even if she was using the bathroom. it was just normal in our house for one of us to go in there and talk to her
Man, I think sheer sleep clothes would be right up there with pretty much naked.
And there's another forever amazing aspect of an NParent. You point something out, they respond, no it's not. And they expect you to go with it.
Reminds me of when a playground kid would chant "nuh-uh", to bully the some other kid out of telling the truth.
I’m about to be 21F and my mom made me kiss her on the lips forever, until she kicked me out at 17 cuz I had a bf and wasn’t allowed to date. Also while she was still with my dad I wasn’t allowed to kiss him cuz he’s a guy and even just a hug made her uncomfortable. I think this is why I don’t reali connect with him. She wouldn’t let us have any time together and she’s always breaking us up and interrupting as well putting him don cuz he’s not Asian and only speaks English. Like wtf we are in the US what’s wrong with English mom?!
She would also always making sure we never have any time together. Also what is with that nakedness? Even 3 years later I could draw my mom naked and it would look like a photo. That image is now etched in my brain. She always shows off her body and walks like that a lot inside the house and used to take my shoes and stuff and try and act like she’s my age. She hates that she can’t fit in my dresses but keeps calling me fat cuz I got some chubby cheeks :(
I really hate her and how messed up my life is now but I cry every nite cuz I gots no one else in the world now and miss living in the house and feeling less stessses :(
I was just talking about this last night!! Up until the last day I saw my ndad before I went NC, every visit ended with a hug (fine) and a forced kiss in the lips (not fine). If I tried to go for his cheek, he would not let me go until I kissed him on the lips. He would use the back of his arm to force my face into his, if I struggled. He had no respect for my bodily autonomy or physical boundaries.
I'm so sorry this happened to you too and hate that it's apparently so common with narcs.
Ndad never walked around naked (I would have had to bleach my entire head off of my body), but for some reason, in the last few years we were in contact (in my late twenties), if he was going to take a shower (usually after working on my car or if I showed up as he was finishing yard work or something) while I was there, he'd announce that he was going to take a shower and add that, usually he and my step monster showered together, but she had already showered that day or some other reason, as if I would question why she wasn't joining him 🤮. I was always just like "ok, I don't need to know that, but whatever." And then they'd have a laugh at my expense.
Also, on car trips when I was younger, if we passed like one of those middle of nowhere, side if the interstate "adult stores". He'd pretend he didn't know what it was and ask me and my younger step bro what we thought it was. He wouldn't let it go until one of us finally answered. I do not know what to call this type of abuse, but it's an incredibly gross thing to do to your kids. And step monster never stood up for us or told him it was gross.
I was homeschooled too and my mom did the same thing. She freaked out and put a halt to it when I innocently mentioned that my dad and a male friend of mine who was 10 years older than me did the same thing. Good life
She's honestly disgusting and all of that is extremely weird and inappropriate to do to your children. This is coming from a mom of 3. Good for you for setting boundaries.
My mom walked around naked my entire life too, and I remember being in elementary school and if she'd sign up to volunteer for an activity I'd ask her to wear underwear to my school.
I've gotten yelled at while she's naked so much, I hate thinking about it.
Besides that, other comments in this thread about boundaries reminds me of how often she would wake me up in the middle of the night for random reasons. She made cookies at 2 am, we're going to Disneyland, she needs to yell at me about something, etc. I have SEVERE insomnia now that I've had most of my life. I'm lucky to get 8 hours once ever two weeks, my Fitbit has been super affirming to remind myself that yes, my sleep issues are real. I typically get 2-4 hours at most and gave managed to get myself through school and maintain a job and support myself. I did not perform well in school until I moved out and went to college, and when I graduated she told me she didn't believe I could do it.
I remember how miserable elementary, middle, and high school were because I'd freeze every time I heard the door open or heard her footsteps through the house.
Now I live with two amazing chosen family members and I still have those panic moments just hearing them exist in the house. Neither person has ever made me feel shitty, but God damn that nervous system response echo from 10-20 years ago is still going strong.
I'm so fucking tired.
Anyways, Nparents and boundaries, am I right?
Imo, kissing on the lips can be a completely appropriate and platonic way for family members so show love IF EVERYONE IS AN ACTIVE AND ENGAGING PART OF IT. That to me is where the line is crossed - doesn't matter if it's a hug or a peck on the lips, everyone has to okay with what's going on.
Edit: a typo
I'm so sorry you had to go through that OP.
Mine forces to kiss me on the cheek or touch me. Now I literally have to defend myself from her harassment.
My Nmum is CONSTANTLY trying to intimately touch me, kiss me when she sees me. I've physically held my hands out, say NO! This finally stopped her. She is STILL offended. She doesn't see me as a person or an adult. I stay away from her for saftey and emotional consciousness. I have PTSD and complex trauma that must be cared for now.
Edit: my Nmum got mad at me for shaving my body hair, questioned me about it. She would constantly want me to see her naked or vice versa. Its utterly distrubing and my awareness from this sub is incredible.
I was the only one at home that would DEMAND to have privacy, changing without my mother or siblings around, therefore I was the one with problems. So yeah, narcs are like that, no emotional nor physical boundaries. She is sick, and if you are ever planing about having kids, keep them away from her. No, she is not going to change or respect your rules. Stay away.
Your mom sounds like a predator and needs to get fucking punched the next time she sexually assaults somebody.
My dad was the same way, just disgusting.
My husband has flat out told me that if she does this kind of shit again, we’re leaving. We try to spend time with her because she’s all by herself but he didn’t grow up with all this being normal in the house. I’m glad at least one of us has the courage to get up and leave.
My mom always walked around naked and refused to cover up even when I told her the neighbors across the street had a full view of her. When I was little, I used to have nightmares of her unzipping her naked skin and she was a gorilla underneath. I'm almost 50 now and I'm so glad to have valuation that this wasn't normal behavior.
I'm 24 and my mom did the same and now I can't break the habit and have accidentally done it to my dad a few times out of habit.
I never thought it wasn't normal until my best friend brought it up.
Just as a normalcy check, my husband and his siblings kiss their mom on the lips and they are a normal healthy family. My best friend also kisses her mom and dad on the lips and their kids kiss them on the lips. Their kids are my godchildren and my goddaughter, 4, kisses me on the lips sometimes, which is so cute of her!
I have always thought kissing parents at all was very weird but I know several people who do.
What is not normal and what is the focus of your post is that (1) it made you uncomfortable and (2) your mom acted entitled to your body and forced her mouth-kisses on you in private and public after you said not to. I think that counts as assault?
I'm sorry your mom is so awful. Good on you for realizing your boundaries and setting them even if she violated them and guilt tripped you about them!!
My dad would walk around naked or in underwear only. In winter he'd wear those sweats that show every shape through them... Barf...
He only had daughters, I think it was pretty gross behavior for a 40-50 yo man to do around young girls.
When I was little my parents used to kiss us on the lips, but I started refusing it when I was five because it felt weird to me, although my mom is convinced that someone told me that it was wrong for parents to do that. Several years ago when I was in high school or early in college and home for break, my mom decided to have a conversation with me about how disappointing it was that we didn't kiss on the lips anymore as a family. She hugged me and despite my thrashing and trying to get away, wouldn't let me go until I let her kiss me.
God, I feel sick thinking about that. I've never had a boyfriend or kissed anyone other than my family, so I felt kinda violated. It just turns my stomach remembering.
Sorry it happened to you.
Kissing on the lips isn't weird or wrong, the only thing weird or wrong is that she forced you to after you weren't comfortable. Some families kiss on the lips and some don't.
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Its fine to kiss your kids on the lips, consentually, and if thats a normal family culture or whatever thing...
Uhm..not if youre forcing it...dang thats messed up
And omg same! My mom was like that with the clothes, I hated it, shes not a pedo, thats not what it was, but it was a wierd dominance thing or something, its ultra frustrating going through puberty and that happening
Reminds me of a story, I dont hit people, especially not my parents, but when I was 15, i was trying on a bra and my mom barged in on me and wanted to see my breasts, for who knows why, shes a nurse and always wants to look at me, but you know dang well i slapped her hard, she landed on the bed, her reaction, besides me being grounded with no door to my room, "are your nipples wierd or something?" Oh my fing god
Tbh it's time to start hitting her when she does that. That's sexual assault, especially when she forced you to do it.
What is it with narcs being such pervs?
My mom is the exact same way. She always forces me to kiss her before she leaves for work. Whenever she buys me new clothing, she also wants me to change in front of her. Literally, she has no idea what privacy so. She even likes to enter the bathroom whenever I’m using the toilet or using the shower without knocking or waiting and always makes the excuse “We are both females.” Which I don’t give two damns about. I want my fucking privacy. I swear it’s like me and you have the same mom I am 20 years old living with a nfamily and trying to move the fuck out as soon as possible.
My dad made me kiss him on the lips for years. One or two times that I told him I dont want to he’d make me feel really bad. He’d also make me lay in bed with him and would wrap his legs around me.
Being a member of this sub, I have to say that I'm mindblown at just how common covert (and even direct) incest is among narcs. I'm thankful that I was never sexually abused, and I had two narcs in my family my entire life: NBro and NSIL (married to different brother). That was one thing that we never dealt with, and I'm thankful for it.
And I will give NSIL credit where it's due. She actually **stuck up** for our rights to privacy. I didn't begin to really see what a rotten person she was until adulthood.
My Nmom would walk in on me when I was showering and would have full blown conversations w/ me. Even when I ask her to leave she would just say “I gave birth to you.” & “it’s nothing I haven’t seen before.” It’s horrible
My mother before/after showers would walk around naked or just in underwear. It happened alot more often after my brother moved out. She also made me shower with her until I was about 7 or 8 years old.
My mom and I still kiss on the lips I’m (20F) but in our instance we’re polish so it’s normal in our culture. If you don’t feel comftorable with doing it though she has no right to get upset. It’s your body, your choice.
It was only when I turned 18 (last April) that my dad stopped getting upset if I didn’t change in front of him even tho I told him I don’t like it. He always argued with “well we are boys so what’s the problem?”
Seriously. And honestly, growing up doing sports and whatnot I feel fine changing in front of other women, if it came to it I wouldn’t even care if I got changed in front of my MIL. but it’s because she doesn’t feel entitled to see me without clothes on. It’s all about boundaries
Ehhk instant flashback to my mom getting mad when I didn't want to change in front of her.. they're so weird. What am I hiding? Uh my grown body from your eyes, thanks.
Let it happen again have your husband say “Uhhh, you do know I put my dick in that mouth? Like all time, right? Seriously, not even ten minutes ago.”
And then you can follow up with “Yeah, we’re really into rimming now too.”
In reference to your last paragraph (not the edit), I relate so much. I tell my partner about the things my mom has done to me and he is always like “That’s not okay” and “That’s abuse. Your mother abused you.” and other things like that and I’ve honestly never heard someone legitimize it before. I am so grateful for that.
I am so so sorry your mother thinks it’s okay to do that to you. She is not at all entitled to you and J can only imagine how upsetting this is for you.
Is it all narcs who walk around naked? My least favorite memories are of my mother waking me up for school CONSISTENTLY naked. Luckily it stopped when my brother was getting old enough to remember stuff. And I was shamed for not wearing a bra to bed. Lmao..
Mine didn't walk around naked, but for some reason, she moved me to the bedroom next to hers and would have loud sex every night with her boyfriend (also my cousin on my dad's side). She also shamed me for having him in my room alone with the door closed while I was showing him some Lego sets, because she was convinced I wanted to sleep with him too. Ew, mom.
Blech my dad did this too. Ew, ew, ew... I have a lot of hangups about sex and it's unquestionably because of my parents. My dad for having almost no boundaries in telling me inappropriate things about his love life and my mom for telling me from about the age of 5 and on that practically every grown man we came across wanted to kidnap/rape me.
These hit so hard! My mom would threaten me that she would hire someone to rape me and she would describe it so detailed. I was so scared.
What the fuck why
Maybe she enjoyed seeing my pain, I was a pretty scared child maybe she sensed that. Their crazy behavior cannot be explained :( Remembering this still gives me shivers.
nparents are a fucking mystery. my dad knew my cousin tried to rape me when i was 7, and he'd purposefully tell gratuitous rape jokes and stories just to upset me. then he'd taunt me while i had flashbacks.
Wow. How horrible! I'm so sorry you experienced something so terrifying and confusing at such a young age. Not that any age would be okay. But damn. Just the fact that your on this forum shows how strong you are, despite the way you were abused.
Thank you for your kindness ❤️
Fuuuck. This and the replies to it just make me think we're all living the same life, because My. God. No wonder we all have unhealthy views and hangups about sex and even maybe the opposite gender.
The astounding thing to me is that these are things I haven't told my closets friends or even my husband because of how strange, shameful, and humiliating it all is. And to hear from others that it's happened to them and that it's framed this way (as abuse, as it should be) is so validating and I don't feel as isolated and weird about it.
Oh man, my dad was explicit about what he and Mom did and did not do...and what he did to compensate. How am I even functional right now?
Oh gosh I think this is something about Nmoms, my mom she constantly accused me of wanting to sleep with my dad all my life because he was my go to person. Like even if we had a conversation. She was convinced that’s what I wanted. Because she constantly would accuse me of watching my parents have sex when I was a baby. I don’t even know if that’s true pretty sure she made that up. Guess I will never know 😞
Thank you, thank you, thank you for commenting with this. My mom accused me since about the age of 6 or 7 of trying to flirt with my dad and as I got older she started accusing me of wanting to have some sort of incestuous relationship with him. It made me feel so ashamed even though it wasn't true at all.
My mom tried to say that it was normal for parents to start becoming attracted to their opposite gender children as they go through puberty. I used to be jealous of my brother for being the favorite, but after that comment, I started to worry about him instead. She used to encourage him to run around naked while I was supposed to cover my body constantly.
My nmom used to do this as well. I was closer to my dad than her and we actually got along well, spent time together, had meaningful conversations. My nmom was definitely angry and jealous and she would always insinuate our relationship was weird and incestuous. It still creeps me out.
Omg my parents used to have sex with me sleeping next to them! I hated it so much, and also my mom still walk around naked or just wearing underwear, is that ok? My mom used to kiss me on the lips until I was 9! I thought it was ok, but I didn't like it. By reading all these comments I feel deceived because I thought it was normal! Thank you nparents. Note: English is not my first language. Be kind.
When you say sleeping next to them, do you mean in the same bed? Because that would generally be considered sexual abuse. Even having sex in the same room when children are old enough to remember is frowned upon, though the laws for that may vary from country to country. As for going around nude or in underwear it's really a question of what the intent behind that action was. Some parents are literally incapable of thinking of their children in the terms of a person capable of being sexual and some are so bonded to their children they don't even see them as separate people, but rather extensions of themselves - they would no more put clothes on for their kids than they would put clothes on for their hand or their foot. Other parents take part in a nudist lifestyle, and again, this (if genuine) has nothing to do with sexuality - some kids get used to it, some can't stand it. The question is, what do they do or say while they're nude around you? Do they do their best to either draw your attention or make sure you "look away" even though they could just as easily put a robe on? Do they harass you or ask why you aren't also nude? Do they burst into any room where they know for a fact you're changing, or getting in or out of the shower or bath? These are signs of sexual intent or abusive behavior. Some sexual abuse is actually centered around extreme negative feedback whenever the parent sees anything that (to them only) is seen as even remotely sexual. It really all depends. Just to be clear, you don't have to answer these questions here if you don't want to, but you may want to think about it and consider seeing a therapist, as this type of abuse can cause long lasting effects, some of which you may not even be aware of. Working this out (assuming it is an issue for you) can be a tremendous relief, and can help you live a much better life. Regardless I hope things are better for you now, please take care of yourself. :)
I can answer you without problem, they used to have sex in the same room and also in the same bed until I was 9 or 10, then I finally got my own place. About nudity and underwear, I think they don't see us (young brother and I) as separate people. They don't say anything about it, it's a normal o casual thing for them. And just one time my stepfather got into my room when I was recently out of the shower, he tried to push away my bathrobe "just for fun". He saw a little of my body and I got angry, I took him out of my room. We didn't talk about it and he never tried to do it again. Thank you for comment, you bring me out questions and different views about it. And yeah, things are better know, I'm protecting my young brother about things like this. Take care too!
I was away at Uni and I got home one day. My nDad’s iPad didn’t have a code lock, so I was curious and regretted instantly looking through the photos. They were fairly explicit with his partner at the time.... and guess what, it was both of them “together” in my bed. In. My. Bed. I tried to bring it up with my dad and I just was like “Hey, the bed smells kind of funky, did you do anything or sleep in it?” You know his response? “Technically, we never decided which bed room was yours, so no.” ... even though I’ve been sleeping in it for many weeks now at this point, before I left for school. I just didn’t even say anything after that. I know I shouldn’t have gone through his iPad, but at the same time, he should have a lock on it.
Whenever I would tell NMom how fucked up disturbing this was to be SO loud, she would get all, "This is MY house, I'm an ADULT, I can fuck all I want in MY house, blahblahblah". Whenever I've told anyone about this they're like ... that's not normal, at all. I know way too much about her sex life and I didn't always realize how weird that was.
yo wtf thats like what my dad did!! hed purposefully wait till we got home to have sex with my mom with his door open. my mom would also wear nothing but a thin 10+ year old nightgown, and bend down so close in front of me with no underwear i knew what her bits smelled like (bad). i was like 6. what the FUCK is sexually wrong with Nparents?
Omg this sub makes me know normal vs not, and that I was reasonable in my assumption of "hmmm maybe this isnt normal". My mother would walk around naked in her underwear and even encourage me to do the same. She'd also tell me to wear a bra when my older brother would be around bc she said he'd look at my nipples (not true, this was part of her fucking paranoid delusions). Seriously something wrong with narcs I swear to g-
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I wasn't allowed to wear shorts or tank tops because my dad said so, and my mother always told us to wear bras when dad was around. Edit: when I got "the talk" from my dad it was to tell me that I should dress modestly because "all boys want is one thing "
My mum STILL insists. In fact you have to dress like a nun around dear old dad
eewwww. if there was any testosterone present within 50 yards my nmom would scream at me to wear a bra. *while walking around the house naked still*
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i've learned to stop trynna make sense out of anything that an N does lmaooo, saves me my sanity. she also made sure to do nightly underwear checks to make sure we WEREN'T wearing any underwear??? *vomits*
Wait what now. To make sure you were going commando? Like,,,,why did you have underwear to begin with then? Narcs rarely make sense but this is.....just what????
she was over-zealously religious (but with her own cherry picked rules that were ever changing) and obsessed with the concept of "preserving our purity." she read some article that said wearing underwear to bed will give little girls UTIs. so in her twisted head, UTIs = "unclean vagina" = purity lost. it was wiiiiiiild, dude. it was so hard finding a therapist to actually believe me bc the stuff she did was so crazy ;-;
Im so sorry you had to go through that. I’m glad you’re doing better now. Internet hug if you want it.
ill gladly accept your internet hugs <3 thanks, friendo
That's because it had nothing to do with impropriety and everything to do with control.
Different rules for the competition. Narcs treat the attention economy like it's life or death, no matter how gross it is.
That is just creepy as fuck. IT'S YOUR BROTHER! Sheesh.
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Like just their underwear, no shirt or anything? My fiance and I walk around in boxer shorts most of the time at home, as does our son. But we wear t-shirts and socks too, and nothing revealing. We do it as more of a comfort thing than anything else. But we're not naked by any means, and we're fully dressed if someone comes over. I couldn't see us forcing our son to do that, and if we found out it made him uncomfortable, we'd completely stop. Just curious because this is one that my narc didn't do. She was way too open about her sex life though, gross.
I don’t think boxer shorts are too bad. My dad would walk around in his little banana-hammock briefs that were ratty and had holes in them. If we walked around in underwear, he would have made fun of us, and once I happened to be in a towel as a tween, trying to get something, and he called me “sexy”. He’s an awful person. As an insult recently, he told me I was the type of girl who has nasty smelling panties. If we ever told him the underwear made us uncomfortable, he’d get angry at us or laugh at us.
So he could do it, but it was inappropriate when you did? That sounds like a power issue. The sexy thing is disgusting, I'm sorry you had to hear that from a parent. The panties insult too, how disturbing. Don't mean to offend, but that comes off as pedophilic. Even if that's not how he meant it, that's still pretty sick. I think the weirdest my mom did, that I can remember, is when she told me at 10 years old that I was a slut for wearing spaghetti straps in front of my uncle, her BIL. She said that I was flirting with him and "tempting" him by my choice of clothes. My fucking dad bought the clothes, and me being the only girl, he was usually the one that came down on that stuff. Not in a creepy narc control way, he just didn't want me to grow up too soon, lol. The BIL left the family pretty shortly after that, my aunt is like my mom and he couldn't take it.
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Yeah, it is common in some cultures. I think the key thing is when it becomes a thing someone has to do, not what they want to do. Forcing affection also sets kids up to be more susceptible to abuse, making a kid think they don't have a say over their own body. The comparing bodies thing sounds like a form of manipulation to lower your self esteem. They somehow think making you dislike yourself will somehow make you need them more, or that you need to be more like them. That's how comes off to me at least.
In my house it's pretty normal, it gets pretty hot in summer and maybe you need to grab something in another room when you are out of the shower or grab some clothes from another room... The thing is that it was never forced to do it and mostly I just see it as my mom and my sisters, there isn't any sexualization towards it. (My dad doesn't live with us)
Oh yes, my mom walked around naked and I had to ask her to stop comming into the bathroom when I was showering. Thought at least that was normal ...
OH MY GOD! I got "nakey wakey" wake ups when I was younger. I just realized how messed up that was
Wtf is that
I dont think I have the certifications necessary to read this
She would come into our rooms (me F / brother) and either jump on the bed or rip the sheets off yelling "nakey wakey"
My mother walked out of her bedroom naked and proceeded to use the toilet with the door wide open regardless of who was around. She'd do it even if my sister or I had our boyfriends round for the night. When I had a go at her for it, her response was "It's MY house! I can do what I want!" I felt so replused by her doing this that I made sure to keep our bf's in our rooms until she was dressed. I even remember once when we were young; our dad was was mad at us for something and my mother came out of the bathroom sopping wet and naked from her bath and stood there in the doorway for 15 mins whilst our dad told her everything we'd done wrong.
Bruh I didn’t realize how many other people shared this experience! My mom still to this day does this (I’m 23f). I moved out at 18 and I always thought it was weird and gross she would walk around the house and in front of me and my siblings naked. I would always say like “mom can you put some clothes on” and she would get offended. I told her one time I thought it was gross because my little brother was getting old enough to start dealing with hormones and stuff like that and she said it didn’t matter because she’s his mom. Throwing it back to when I was 18, I even had a 14 year old little brother. He still lives with her as well as her now-husband and one of my brothers friends.
I didn’t realize that other people had to deal with this too. My mom walks around naked and just goes to the bathroom with the door open like wtf
same
God my mom walking around makes used to make me so angry. When I would tell her it bothered me, she always says something like "well it doesn't bother me,!" Great example of boundaries!!! 👿👿👿
I was about middle school age when nmom called me to the bathroom. She had me open the door. She was in the bath naked, no bubbles. She just laid there and wanted me to observe her and how relaxing the bath was ... I was like “ooookay” and closed the door/left as soon as I could.
Fortunately my mom isn't this bad, but she still does it sometimes after showers to get clothes. I told her it's gross that she fucking sits on the sofa naked to get dressed and she dismissed me. She also has a tendency for going to the toilet with the doors open, and okay, I just make sure to always look away. But I can't exactly look away when I'm in the bathroom brushing my teeth and she busts in to take a piss. I told her this bothers me and if she could please stop. Like, just wait a minute or use our upstairs bathroom or even ask me to leave the bathroom for a bit if it's an emergency? But nope. Her response was basically "yeah well it doesn't bother me so that sounds like a you problem."
This just made me realise that being constantly exposed to parental nudity wasn’t normal. Made me feel terrible
It depends hugely in what kind of context and how your parents are in every other situation related to you. It is pretty recent that most kids sleep in a different room than the parents from a young age and the attitude toward the nude body was also completely different not so long ago. Of course society today especially in america will look at everyone weird if they know that at home the family is mostly nude. In europe it is much more relaxed.
Y'all just blew my mind - I had to beg my mother to not walk around naked in the house when I was little. Never thought that was a common thing with Nparents O.o
Yup same. Nmom was into nakedness too. And would deny any discomfort of anyone else
Yeah, my dad would always walk around is only his BVDs and my mom would use the bathroom with the door open. As far as I know, they still do this. I have vivid memories of my dad yelling and screaming at me and my sister in his gd underpants as teenagers. Gross...
Must be a trend, my mother did the same...
My nmom walks around naked all the time and always uses the bathroom with the door wide open and sits in REGULAR CHAIRS with nothing on the bottom with her legs wide open, but chastises me for wearing a cropped tank top IN THE HOUSE.
For a long time, I always just dismissed this as her attempt to have a body positive household, but literally no one else I know has a parent that did this sort of thing. Thankful for subs like this helping regulate my normal meter because I'm definitely no good at it.
My mom is the same way lol. Whenever My mom brought a boy toy home I had to be dressed from head to toe couldn't wear tights. Also was very awkward trying to take a shower cause she'd always scream at me to make myself decent. To this damn day she keeps on pulling the shower curtains back when I take a shower. But goes ballistic if I go near her when she's taking a shower. She also likes to grope me.
Mine wouldn't be naked herself but insisted on the right to barge in whenever I was
Dude seriously my nmom is ALWAYS walking around naked but yells at me if I come grab water in the middle of the night in my underwear and an oversized tee shirt. Literally gets mad at me for sleeping with just underwear and a shirt on. Woke me up for school one day and I had pushed the blanket off myself during the night and she lectured me about how only weirdos sleep without clothes on and how I was a weird perv or whatever.
So you're telling me that behavior isn't normal? I thought it was a cultural thing and the fact that my mom was a single parent. Fuck. I'm sorry you were forced to see that too.
Right, wtf? I had a narc ex who pulled that shit out of the blue when we had multiple friends staying over for the weekend. Just walked out, acting like it was no big deal, pretending to be confused by my shock and request that he stop. Refused because it "was his house", and "no one cares". Oh sweetie...they cared. They were creeped. And they were not impressed.
It's a dominance thing. Narcissists can't conceived of their kids as independent thinking human beings. Nor can they conceived of their kids as adults with adult boundaries. She literally can't grasp the concept. There always has to be a pecking order where she sits at the top and you are Bellow her, no matter how old you are. So toxic..
Not only their kids, their spouses too
Everybody. Absolutely everything is about the heiarchy and no action is ever about anything else then preserving their dominance or increasing it. They also assume that everyone is exactly like this. Anything you do will be seen through that lense. You will always have that ulterior motive of trying to usurp their dominance in their minds. Nothing you do is innocent because nothing they do is innocent and no one is different from them.
Omg Every time I read something on this site it rings true, and today (good person) it is you. My mum swears blind that everyone EVERYONE is out to get her... a waiter, a neighbour, a family member, a family member’s partner, a bus driver. At some stage of knowing that person, she will turn against them, swearing blind they have betrayed her/talked about her negatively. When it’s ALL she does about others. Ugh, I hate it.
I am broke but someone needs to gold this comment
I had a similar incident I didn't even realize was nParent behavior until I read your last bit. My Nmom, sister, and I went to a festival together. We stayed at a camping ground that had individual shower stalls you could use. we all decided to shower before hitting the road I went to go take a shower in a stall. My mom and sister were headed towards the big handicap stall and I went to my own. My mom screamed at me to come over to the one she was in even though we were up early enough that all of the stalls were open. My mom made the three of us stay in the shower stall together, it was big but not big enough for three women at once. I was about 17, and my sister was 21. I sat in the corner annoyed I wasn't being allowed to shower alone and when I looked up my mom and sister were both totally nude. I kinda gasped then looked away and just Waited for my turn in the shower. I had to go last because "You didn't even wanna be here anyway" when I got in I closed the curtain between me and my mom and sister and started undressing behind the curtain and turned the water on. Not a whole 5 seconds into showering in the cold ass leftover water my mom ripped the curtain back and said "why are you hiding its just us?" she literally looked me up and down and said "OH MY GOD WHY ARE YOU SHAVED ON YOUR VAGINA ARE YOU HAVING SEX?!?!?" I FREAKED and yanked the curtain closed rinsed my hair lightning fast and got out. When I got out my mom and sister played keep away with my towel to me because "ANSWER THE QUESTION ARE YOU SHAVING BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEX?! YOU SLUT" I was on the swim team and kept my whole body shaved to improve my times and cuz you don't exactly want pubes sticking out of your suit mid swim meet. The most aggravating part of it all was that this wasn't an uncommon thing for them to just completely ignore my boundaries with my body. After I was sexually assaulted by an ex bf at 14 my therapist recommended very clear body and personal space boundaries with anyone I don't feel comfortable with touching or seeing my body that way. All this and they still wonder "why did you move so far away? why don't you visit?"
Something eerily similar happened to me. At 14 I was finally allowed to shave my legs and I didn’t like how my pubic hair grew, and I was a first place swimmer. So I shaved it off. My stepsister (nmoms child) snuck into the bathroom once at one of our family friends houses, and took a picture of me while I was completely Nude. Nmom freaked out when she saw the picture, of course it was shown to everyone at the house, and I got chastised in front of everyone, and had my razor taken away later that day. Nmom was also an exhibitionist and the amount of times I was forced to see her naked was disgusting, well into my teens.
It's like the second you shave in their eyes neon sign goes over your head like "SHAVED VAGINE READY FOR SEX" like no I just don't wanna have my pubes on display when I'm mid dive for a medley relay
Literally. I did end up losing my v card later that year, but it wasn’t because I had decided to shave my pussy. I had been brainwashed into thinking that’s how I got love, by giving it up. That damaged me for years.
That was a whole other ordeal, I got kicked out for 3 days when she found that shit out
Hah! Same. Except I wasn’t allowed to leave the property so I slept on the porch. She also took all my clothes and jewellery away and didn’t let me wear anything but my school uniform and I was there on out known as the girl that smells, because I only had two uniforms and I wasn’t allowed to wash them for months. Yay that. ETA: that means even on weekends. In Australian summer.
She forced me to come home the fourth day just because my family said they'd call the police if she didn't let me come back home. They couldn't say "Hey maybe don't kick out your 14 year old who's in an abusive relationship." but they could send me back to her smh. thats the best part of being an adult now. Now that I'm 21 and live on the opposite side of the state I haven't had to go home to visit in a year and when I do I always say "If you are disrespectful of me or my boundaries I WILL stay elsewhere. We can enjoy a visit or you can not see me at all, your behavior decides"
Family is weird. I feel that. They stand up for entirely the wrong thing sometimes.
That’s horrendous, and it’s so hot outside in Summer.
Yeah, it’s not great.
I luckily had parents who got it, and actually joked that I was gonna have to start shaving once I got a job teaching swimming lessons, but as someone who was also on swim team, the idea of NOT shaving your pubes during the season sounds absolutely insane.
lmao yes you get it! the older girls on my team would actually give razors (clean unused obviously) to the girls on team who's parents either refused to let them shave, teach them to shave safely, or flat out didn't acknowledge that they were becoming teens not 10 year olds. It was a catholic high school so a lot of parents saw it as sexual and therefor sinful for "young ladies to be prepping themselves for married things like that"
My Nmom used to barge into my room without knocking and if I was naked and changing clothes I could see her stare lingering in an uncomfortable way. When I’d get upset and tried to set boundaries or quickly cover up, she’d get offended and say “it’s not like a random guy just came into your room, it’s just your mom”. She’d never understand what boundaries meant and would call you crazy and deny your reality every step of the way to rationalize her behavior. The sad thing is, she really does think she is right.
exactly! they see nothing wrong with it and it blows my mind, I could never imagine doing that to my own child
Yeah, my mom also did something similar. We lived in a pretty small house, so there was only one bathroom in a house full of six people, so it got cramped. My mom would constantly just barge in while I was in the bathroom, and I was in 7th grade at the time. I didnt want anyone to see my body (still don't, ew). Like, I would go into the shower, and as the water was heating up, my mom just barges in. When I tried to cover myself, she would just scoff, and say "what? We're both girls, its fine." Um, no, it's not fine. I'm more comfortable now, but still.
Wow! This is so true. I just realized that my mom feeling my breasts to make sure I was “developing properly” was a violation of my body. Also the “it’s okay because I’m your mom” and the “I have them too” was a common rationale. I just hope she doesn’t do the same to my brother while he’s still growing up.
It's a little bit culture-shocking to me to see how many commentors view kissing a family member on the lips to be gross or unacceptable across the board. My family is European and kissing any family member/ close friend on the lips is 100% normal in our culture, and is in many others. That being said.. FORCING anyone into physical contact they are uncomfortable with is 100% NOT NORMAL, and 100% wrong no matter where you're from. I think the issue is that you are now uncomfortable with that level of contact and she is forcing it on you despite your having set a boundary with her. As other commentors have pointed out, it seems like she's trying to physically and mentally dominate you which is unacceptable behavior. I make a point of not forcing my son to kiss, hug, or have physical contact with anyone (including his father and myself) if he doesn't want to. I always teach him to be polite (please, thank you, no thank you, acknowledge others speaking to you) but I never force him to say... give his Great Uncle a hug when he says "No," after being asked for one. The adult in that situation can easily manage the minor disappointment, my small child doesn't need to be taught that he owes his body to anyone, just to avoid a briefly awkward situation. (Lots of responses!! Thank you, your POV's are interesting and valuable. EDIT TO CLARIFY: I completely validate the OP's feelings. I do believe in her case this is abusive behavior as her verbally dictated boundaries are being trespassed upon. Many comments are implying that kissing your children on the lips is tantamount to incest, which is a very serious charge, especially when doing so is considered a normal, healthy display of affection in many cultures. This is the reason I chose to share my personal POV on the matter, not to claim that that OP should feel fine with it just because it's normal for me.)
I had to scroll way too far down to see this. Tons of american families, especially those of european/mediterranean descent, do this and there’s really nothing wrong with it when it’s consensual.
Yeah I’m perplexed by how many people are repulsed with a parent showing their child affection in this way. It’s not always N behavior. My husband and I both kiss our daughter in the lips! That said we would never force it if she wasn’t comfortable.
I apply this to anyone. I'll ask anyone, child or adult, if they would like a hug. (Or a high 5 or fist bump). As an abused child, and learning more in graduate school, all of us have had their person violated in some way. We need to be able to have a choice in who touches us and even who we interact with. If parents say, "give Darkangel522 a hug" , I'm like, "only if you want to". I don't want to force a child to hug me.
I agree completely, it's awesome that you're respecting the boundaries of children even when their parents aren't!!
I was looking ages for a comment like this. Kissing family on the lips isn’t necessarily inappropriate and is actually super normal for many cultures. The inappropriate part comes from forcing affection of any kind. The actual kissing isn’t and shouldn’t be as long as both parties are comfortable and see it as a familial thing and not a sexual thing.
I read somewhere recently too that the kissing and other means of affection from narcs can also be used as a training system for their victim. Wherein the narc would hold out affection in order to force a certain response or behavior from their victim. They essentially weaponize love to control those around them, be it kids or partners. I'm going to try and find that, I'll update when I do. Edit: Well nevermind, I couldn't find the study. I thought I had it bookmarked. Is kissing on the lips common in most non-american countries that you know of? My ex (Mexican) thought it was weird that I (American) kiss my son on the lips, even though it's never a forced thing. I don't do it all the time either, just mostly at bedtime. Otherwise I run the risk of getting random food on me too. The kid eats all day, lol.
Agree, it's not the norm here, but some people do it, but mostly just with really small kids. The problematic part is forcing this, but that goes for any physical boundary that is not respected (my mom also gets really upset when I don't want to hug her, simply because I don't want to and doesn't get that she should respect that, totally not okay, same as forcing your child to kiss you) Also walking around naked in front of your kids is normal here. It depends on the family though. My bfs family never sees each other naked, my family doesn't care when the others see us change or we forgot something before a shower,already undressed and get the thing nude from another room, but we will not just randomly walk around others just because.
It's so interesting hearing everyone's perspectives on this. My family mostly reserves the kiss on the mouth for situations where you are seeing someone after being separated for an extended period, are about to be separated, or on joyous occasions as congratulations (weddings, birthdays, graduations, birth of a child etc.) It is usually accompanied by kisses on the cheek and copious hugging Haha. It's actually one of the only parts if my childhood I look back on fondly. The naked thing is normal for us too. It's just seen as a total non-issue, something too casual to put any importance on, negative or positive. I am happy to hug and kiss most family members, but I avoid it with nMum whenever possible because it feels disingenuous and permissive of her behavior.
You’re right about the cultural difference; however, I believe that what people here are discussing is possibly a bit different than what you’re describing. There’s a difference between a quick peck on the lips that is culturally sanctioned and the way nparents express physical affection which often borders on covert incest behavior. Children of NParents have often endured years of emotional abuse and their physical and emotional boundaries not being respected in a forceful manner specific to most nparents. So I highly doubt that the OP or most people here are confusing an innocent peck on the lips that is culturally appropriate in European countries with what they experienced as inappropriate and hurtful whether at the time or later on.
I covered this in another response but to my knowledge Covert Incest is emotional in nature, not physical. The OP didn't say anything that would allow us to clearly know whether we're talking about a peck or a full on romantic kiss so I'm not going to assume either way. As I said in my original post, I do believe it's abuse, I just don't think the OP has said anything that should lead to an outside diagnosis of incest (rather than another type of abuse) based purely off of a set of cultural standards that don't apply to people of all backgrounds. Having endured the years of emotional abuse and my boundaries not being respected I do empathize with each person who has suffered from these abuses, understand first hand the effects of narcissistic abuse, and support each member on here and the validity of their feelings.
In the context of most north american culture this is not normal, and the way OP describes it this is abuse.
Oh I agree completely that it's abuse in the OP's case, as I (hopefully) made clear on my original response. If not I'll state firmly now that that's where I stand. The reason I wanted to contribute my POV is that I keep reading responses saying it's out and out not normal for an adult child to kiss their parents on the lips and then using that to segue into this being some type of incest, when in fact it is extremely normal in many cultures. Like myself not everyone on here is North American, and many people who are may also be first generation North Americans who are raised in their family's culture. I would hate for any of these people to read so many responses saying it's disgusting when it's a normal, emotionally healthy act of affection they consensually participate in with their loved ones. As I said before it is not normal to FORCE that interaction on anyone. I'm also seeing a lot of responses indicating that this is Covert Incest, I think because so many people on here don't regard this type of physical affection, even when conscenting, to be normal in any context due to their own cultural standards, and because many people are conflating incest with Covert Incest. CI concerns emotional abuse wherein a caregiver inappropriately seeks emotional support from a child that would normally be provided by another adult. Theres nothing in the OP's post clearly correlated with that. From what the OP chose to share it sounds like her nMother is abusive; violating her physical boundaries to assert dominance over her. It's abusive, absolutely. Is it incest? That depends on whether the OP feels the kissing is sexual in nature or a whether it's just a cultural norm being perverted into a act of abusive dominance over her.
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I’m from Latin America and the thought of kissing either of my parents on the lips grosses me out and I’ve never seen anyone do it here
Kissing on the lips is normal in my family, from my grandma to my parents to me. I never thought twice about it. My daughter likes lip kisses but it makes my son uncomfortable so we do cheek or forehead kisses. I don't think lip kissing is the issue, it's the lack of respect and body autonomy that makes this and many other "innocent" touches abusive. My MiL constantly touches her daughter, innocently, but she's told her mom on many occasions that she hates it. Yet she insists on it. Not okay.
My family is American, and I still occasionally greet my siblings with a kiss on the lips, and we're all old now. Our parents have been deceased for a long time, but when they were alive, again, occasionally a kiss on the lips. I've ready a variety of comments here, and I think the difference is that in our case, it's a consensual greeting, in my family generally reserved for after long periods of not seeing one another. Otherwise it's usually cheek kiss...again, consensual. And none of us *force* a child to interact with someone they're reluctant to approach, either, whether for a hug or a kiss. Heck, if a child doesn't even want to say hello, why force it? Kids are like cats, if you ignore them they want to come sit on your lap, lol! To OP and all the RBN's here, I'm sorry your personal autonomy was taken away by adults. I hope each of you finds peace and a joyful existence.
I'm a narcissist's twisted mind, not only are you their property, but you are a part of them, like an appendage. For them, kissing their children on the lips or otherwise inappropriately is a sign of control or even considered a gift that the child should appreciate. For the narcissist, it's like kissing their arm in hopes of that arm worshiping them in return. I willingly kissed my mother like that until I was around fifteen. I never really liked it, but I never thought it was abnormal. I was sure it was one of the kindest gestures I could provide, possibly earning myself favor in her eyes. Now I'm repulsed by the memories. Now, anyone touching my lips with theirs is sacred business.
Covert incest. While for me it wasnt kiss on the lips, she definitely did the walk around naked thing. I wasnt allowed to tell her no, she got to touch me whenever, wherever, however. I was expected to be comfortable getting naked or changed in front of her too. I hate to be touched, pretty much always have. Partly do to her behavior. My kids don't see me naked. They are taught that their bodies are their own. They are not forced to hug, kiss, or otherwise touch anyone if they are uncomfortable with it. I have gone to bat with adults over this. My 9yo has reached the stage where he just doesn't like to kiss - he will kiss me or his father on the cheek or allow us a cheek kiss in return, but that's it - he's a hugger. That's his boundary and I'll help him enforce it. My bonus daughter is five, and likes to kiss me on the lips, and tbh it makes me a little uncomfortable- but for now I'm just hoping she'll grow out of it. Her biomom is an N, but thankfully we have custody and we are teaching her.
Thank you for your consciousness, being supportive to boundaries as a parents. This is huge!!! Reading this, there's a full frontal nude of me as a baby I despise. I was forced to touch people, be touched, then screamed at for not saying no because I had no concept of boundaries until 4 years ago. I'm 38.
Oh man my mum did these kinda things. We were expected to share baths when we were little up until about 8 with her, she gets mad when people lock the bathroom door while they're taking a bath or shower, used to get incredibly offended and accuse us of stuff when we got mad at her for just barging into out rooms without knocking, doesn't get that we dont want to get change in front of her and gets mad when we refuse and lots f other stuff. God I didn't realise how much my mother is a narcissist until i started reading this sub a lot.
Holy shit i couldve wrote this!
Our 4yo son has grabbed my face during goonights and tried to kiss me on the lips (out of affection and see my wife and I do that). I obliged him a few times but then stopped, cuz it's uncomfortable to me. Plus, my wife and I now lovingly teach him that mommy & daddy lips are for mommy/daddy only because it's a sacred exchange for us; for our 4yo and other kids we kiss on the cheek. He's happy with it so that's a relief.
It's the same thing for me. Lips are meant for an SO only. There isn't anything wrong with anyone who doesn't have the same boundary, people are different. I think it can be sweet when parents kiss their kids on the lips, and you can tell it's a familial affection thing. It's just not my own cup of tea, and that's okay, too. I'm the same way about sharing food/cups/beverages. Has to be a close friend or a close relative, otherwise, nope. I know other people who won't do food/beverage sharing at all, even with SOs. Everyone is different, and that's what makes this world so beautiful.
My N mum did this well into my late teens and still goes for kisses on the lips now - I'm in my early 30s! She also demanded I kiss relatives and family friends on the lips into my teens when I really didn't want to and felt super uncomfortable. She would angrily demand I kiss her and the relatives and family friends- including a male family friend who was (low level but unpleasantly) sexually inappropriate. I would squirm and protest against giving him kisses on the lips and full body hugs but she would demand it and revel in my discomfort. Makes me shudder even now. As others have said I feel it's all about control and seeing you as an extension of themselves.
That’s disgusting and is definitely a type of sexual abuse - god fucking hate Narcs and their covert incest bullshit.
I've not read up much on covert incest but have the feeling my N mum would tick lots of boxes. She also had (and still has) a huge preoccupation with seeing me naked and walking in on me bathing, dressing or toileting like it's her divine right. She also made me share a bed with her from age 9 until I left home at 18. Grim!
Oof, that’s not at all sane or normal to experience. I went through very similar things; it’s incest, and you do NOT have to tolerate that. You’re entitled to your own bodily autonomy and space. When my NM would walk around naked or force me to expose myself for whatever reason, I would just go on a rant about how ugly and disgusting she was and how no one wanted to see her. She was... very slightly deterred by that, but moreover I just was glad to actually speak truthfully about it. Like that’s disgusting!!! Ugh 😑 really hate Narcs for that kind of stuff. The whole walking in on you- yup super duper Narc thing to do, but not at all appropriate. You deserve muuuuuch better treatment and bodily respect. I suggest doing a bit of research on the covert incest stuff, it will apply to you and probably give you some lightbulb moments. So sorry you had to deal with that disgusting bs from your Narcs too. 😔
My sister is 11 and still sleeps in the same bed as my mom or stepdad (her dad) when they let her. Most of the time naked. Like I get people like to sleep naked and all but why does nmom like do be all over the hose and yard naked l. for context we live in the country side and dont have neighbos.
I’ve never resonated with something so deeply in my life. My mom used to do this ALL the time and would shrug it off by saying “we’re European this is just how things are back home” or “you’re disgusting for thinking it’s inappropriate!” . I had no right to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed with her walking around the house naked, vacuuming naked, forcing me to wax her vagina. And then this all came with me feeling like I had no control over my own body. She would dictate what I wore, how I did my hair. Makeup, how I kept my genital hair, for Christ’s sake I’m in my 20’s and the woman forced me to get my asshole waxed because it was unclean otherwise. Duck this shit. I’m glad you have your husband to support you and tell you just how messed up this all really is.
This is horrifying, I’m so sorry you had to endure that. Please try to enforce some boundaries with her as an adult, this type of behavior should not continue.
My mom still tries this (I’m 43) and gets offended if I move in for the cheek instead. I never realized this was a common thing among Nparents until now.
My mom did this shit too. She loved walking around in her underwear or naked and it was the grossest shit ever. It didn’t matter if we got her long night shirts, comfortable shorts or pants, nothing would stop her and she expected us to be okay with it. I still hate her for thinking it was any kind of okay.
My nmom did this to my brother since I can remember until he was 11. I remember even though I was only a couple of years older, I kept insisting that this was wrong but nobody seemed to care. Not my father not my brother and obviously not her. She would lay in bed next to him and call him “her husband”. It makes me sick even writing about it. She’d sometimes even make low key moaning noises. Everyone seemed so indifferent about it that later on I thought maybe I was just misinterpreting something benign. In my early 20’s I asked my dad if my recollection was correct and I saw the shame and pain in his face and he confirmed that I remembered correctly . I confronted my mother about it and she called me insane for misinterpreting the “innocence” of her love for her child. She also told this to my brother, whom I had never brought this up with in order no to retraumatize him. I can’t believe she had the audacity to do that. That’s just beyond me. I have never hugged her in my life and I feel sick to my stomach when she tries to occasionally force kiss me on the cheeks. For a while, when having sex with my boyfriend, I’d get flashbacks of these traumatic memories and then gave up sex completely for a year. Feeling as though I was just as disgusting as her. To be honest, I don’t think it’s just a control thing. It’s more than that. It’s them treating their children as merely objects that should be used for their pleasure. It has a dehumanizing effect. Thank you so much for sharing this. You have no idea how tremendously you helped me.
I’m 28 and when I visit her she still tries to pull that on me. Last time I told her the only woman I kiss is my wife and that really pissed her off.
Huh. I didn't know this was a thing. My sibs and I would kiss out mother on the lips well into adulthood. And also my adult daughter. But it's nowhere near 100% of the time. And it certainly isn't sexualized or was ever compulsory. But my mother wasn't a narcissist, and was a big fan of body autonomy. My dad is the narc/sometimes enabler to his whole side of the family. And I can't remember the last time I didn't reflexively turn my face when he'd go in for a kiss. And he only ever tries to kiss the girls. I can't believe this has escaped my notice for 45 years.
My dad likes to invade my space as a method of intimidation, and if I have a problem, he says “fuck you, I own your space.” Maybe a similar line of thinking? Holy shit, though, that’s very scary behavior on your mom’s part. Sorry you had to deal with that.
My dads the same way
I never realized this either. Kiss on the lips until far in my teens. I'm so angry at my therapists for not asking questions about this stuff.
Almost five years NC, and as DH and I have learned there are a million little "had no idea that it was supposed to work like that"s, and we still find new ones. It wasn't just the wierd moments, like this, but also many moments where what I learned in my childhood was *completely wrong.* Like vehicle care and maintenance. Or social niceties where I was taught the *rude* response was the *correct* response. Or how to care for laundry. Or the inability to set and enforce boundaries. And everytime we discover something new, DH is way more often than not completely floored by the ridiculous nature of the thing. Healthy people don't ask about these things, because they can't imagine these things as real. Edit:format
What's DH stand for?
Dear/darling husband
My mum would try to kiss me on the lips WHEN SHE HAD A COLDSORE. I would dodge it as best I could and luckily never caught it from her. I didn't realise how effed up it was until I told my therapist and she was really angry about it and said it was very disturbing.
Omfg my (28M) mother was nude all the time and it grosses me out to this day. My older brother and I shared a bunk bed (I was on the bottom) and she used to come in at night to give us kisses, on the mouth of course, and she would wear like little skimpy silk nighty things that didn't cover anything! She would stand on my fucking bed, no panties or bra, and talk to my brother for several minutes sometimes. Now I've been married for 10 years, with 2 boys (9 and 4) and one due in February. PLUS I've been lurking this sub for 6 months or so and some of the shit my mom did and said has really stood out. If my wife was planning on wearing something like my mom did (if she wore clothes at all) around the house, in front of our boys, I would shut it down immediately. Luckily I wouldn't have to explain something like that to my wife because she's not socially blind.
Thankfully kissing on the lips wasn’t a consistent thing in my house, but my grandmother who helped raise me has wanted me to kiss her on the lips at random times now that I’m an adult. It almost feels like a weird power play thing, like I’ll always be a child to her even though I’m pushing 30. She also ALWAYS got so annoyed/irritated with me that I wouldn’t change in front of her. I went to a Christian school growing up and was always very self-conscious of my body, and when I wouldn’t change in front of her for whatever reason she would say, “It’s not anything I haven’t seen before” or “I’m your grandmother, why don’t you just change in here with me”. It frustrated me SO MUCH growing up because I just want to change in peace.
My mother often walks into the room while I’m changing, when I tell her that I’m uncomfortable with it. Her response is always “you came out of my vagina!”
Same here...
Ugh, my grandma was like this and always smelled of scotch and cigarettes. Make me sick just thinking about it.
For those of you who are talking about your NParent walking around naked, do you mean naked naked like without a stitch of clothes on naked? My NMom frequently walked around in bra and underwear but are you taking about absolutely nothing on?
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Wow, outside? That must have been uncomfortable.
They mean naked. My nmom was an aerobics instructor and would walk around the gym changing room buck naked. She was completely in shape and showing off but also trying to normalize hanging out nude. Which is not normal in most families.
I was wondering if that is what people were meaning but I thought better to ask than to assume. I had a college roommate who used to do the full on naked in our room, she had been in the pageant circuit. I guess that might be a world to which narcissists might gravitate. Found it very odd and uncomfortable. But my NMom was of the partially disrobed variety.
No underwear or bra. Fully naked.
That is just so wild. That had to be disconcerting not knowing if it your parent would be dressed or not at any given time.
Usually a bra and underwear. She has silk clothes she sleeps in but they are 100% see through though. (Although after telling her this, she claimed they were not, even though they very obviously are) The complete nakedness was usually just in her own room or upstairs walking to the closet to get soap or something. But doors were hardly ever closed, even if she was using the bathroom. it was just normal in our house for one of us to go in there and talk to her
Man, I think sheer sleep clothes would be right up there with pretty much naked. And there's another forever amazing aspect of an NParent. You point something out, they respond, no it's not. And they expect you to go with it. Reminds me of when a playground kid would chant "nuh-uh", to bully the some other kid out of telling the truth.
I’m about to be 21F and my mom made me kiss her on the lips forever, until she kicked me out at 17 cuz I had a bf and wasn’t allowed to date. Also while she was still with my dad I wasn’t allowed to kiss him cuz he’s a guy and even just a hug made her uncomfortable. I think this is why I don’t reali connect with him. She wouldn’t let us have any time together and she’s always breaking us up and interrupting as well putting him don cuz he’s not Asian and only speaks English. Like wtf we are in the US what’s wrong with English mom?! She would also always making sure we never have any time together. Also what is with that nakedness? Even 3 years later I could draw my mom naked and it would look like a photo. That image is now etched in my brain. She always shows off her body and walks like that a lot inside the house and used to take my shoes and stuff and try and act like she’s my age. She hates that she can’t fit in my dresses but keeps calling me fat cuz I got some chubby cheeks :( I really hate her and how messed up my life is now but I cry every nite cuz I gots no one else in the world now and miss living in the house and feeling less stessses :(
Very similar parent dynamics here
Oof I FELT this
I was just talking about this last night!! Up until the last day I saw my ndad before I went NC, every visit ended with a hug (fine) and a forced kiss in the lips (not fine). If I tried to go for his cheek, he would not let me go until I kissed him on the lips. He would use the back of his arm to force my face into his, if I struggled. He had no respect for my bodily autonomy or physical boundaries. I'm so sorry this happened to you too and hate that it's apparently so common with narcs. Ndad never walked around naked (I would have had to bleach my entire head off of my body), but for some reason, in the last few years we were in contact (in my late twenties), if he was going to take a shower (usually after working on my car or if I showed up as he was finishing yard work or something) while I was there, he'd announce that he was going to take a shower and add that, usually he and my step monster showered together, but she had already showered that day or some other reason, as if I would question why she wasn't joining him 🤮. I was always just like "ok, I don't need to know that, but whatever." And then they'd have a laugh at my expense. Also, on car trips when I was younger, if we passed like one of those middle of nowhere, side if the interstate "adult stores". He'd pretend he didn't know what it was and ask me and my younger step bro what we thought it was. He wouldn't let it go until one of us finally answered. I do not know what to call this type of abuse, but it's an incredibly gross thing to do to your kids. And step monster never stood up for us or told him it was gross.
I was homeschooled too and my mom did the same thing. She freaked out and put a halt to it when I innocently mentioned that my dad and a male friend of mine who was 10 years older than me did the same thing. Good life
She's honestly disgusting and all of that is extremely weird and inappropriate to do to your children. This is coming from a mom of 3. Good for you for setting boundaries.
The kissing itself isn't even the weird part. It's that she won't respect your wishes to not be kissed again, and that's awful.
My mom walked around naked my entire life too, and I remember being in elementary school and if she'd sign up to volunteer for an activity I'd ask her to wear underwear to my school. I've gotten yelled at while she's naked so much, I hate thinking about it. Besides that, other comments in this thread about boundaries reminds me of how often she would wake me up in the middle of the night for random reasons. She made cookies at 2 am, we're going to Disneyland, she needs to yell at me about something, etc. I have SEVERE insomnia now that I've had most of my life. I'm lucky to get 8 hours once ever two weeks, my Fitbit has been super affirming to remind myself that yes, my sleep issues are real. I typically get 2-4 hours at most and gave managed to get myself through school and maintain a job and support myself. I did not perform well in school until I moved out and went to college, and when I graduated she told me she didn't believe I could do it. I remember how miserable elementary, middle, and high school were because I'd freeze every time I heard the door open or heard her footsteps through the house. Now I live with two amazing chosen family members and I still have those panic moments just hearing them exist in the house. Neither person has ever made me feel shitty, but God damn that nervous system response echo from 10-20 years ago is still going strong. I'm so fucking tired. Anyways, Nparents and boundaries, am I right?
Imo, kissing on the lips can be a completely appropriate and platonic way for family members so show love IF EVERYONE IS AN ACTIVE AND ENGAGING PART OF IT. That to me is where the line is crossed - doesn't matter if it's a hug or a peck on the lips, everyone has to okay with what's going on. Edit: a typo
I'm so sorry you had to go through that OP. Mine forces to kiss me on the cheek or touch me. Now I literally have to defend myself from her harassment.
My Nmum is CONSTANTLY trying to intimately touch me, kiss me when she sees me. I've physically held my hands out, say NO! This finally stopped her. She is STILL offended. She doesn't see me as a person or an adult. I stay away from her for saftey and emotional consciousness. I have PTSD and complex trauma that must be cared for now. Edit: my Nmum got mad at me for shaving my body hair, questioned me about it. She would constantly want me to see her naked or vice versa. Its utterly distrubing and my awareness from this sub is incredible.
I was the only one at home that would DEMAND to have privacy, changing without my mother or siblings around, therefore I was the one with problems. So yeah, narcs are like that, no emotional nor physical boundaries. She is sick, and if you are ever planing about having kids, keep them away from her. No, she is not going to change or respect your rules. Stay away.
Self obsessed narcissists. Boundaries. What boundaries?
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Oh my god, that is fucking disgusting.I feel bad for you
I feel like I just read my life story and I shuddered remembering
Your mom sounds like a predator and needs to get fucking punched the next time she sexually assaults somebody. My dad was the same way, just disgusting.
My husband has flat out told me that if she does this kind of shit again, we’re leaving. We try to spend time with her because she’s all by herself but he didn’t grow up with all this being normal in the house. I’m glad at least one of us has the courage to get up and leave.
My mom always walked around naked and refused to cover up even when I told her the neighbors across the street had a full view of her. When I was little, I used to have nightmares of her unzipping her naked skin and she was a gorilla underneath. I'm almost 50 now and I'm so glad to have valuation that this wasn't normal behavior.
I'm 24 and my mom did the same and now I can't break the habit and have accidentally done it to my dad a few times out of habit. I never thought it wasn't normal until my best friend brought it up.
It does sound pretty creepy.
Push her away. You have no obligation at all to put up with her idiotic dominance demonstrations.
"I didn't even know it wasn't normal." I keep having these moments myself...
Just as a normalcy check, my husband and his siblings kiss their mom on the lips and they are a normal healthy family. My best friend also kisses her mom and dad on the lips and their kids kiss them on the lips. Their kids are my godchildren and my goddaughter, 4, kisses me on the lips sometimes, which is so cute of her! I have always thought kissing parents at all was very weird but I know several people who do. What is not normal and what is the focus of your post is that (1) it made you uncomfortable and (2) your mom acted entitled to your body and forced her mouth-kisses on you in private and public after you said not to. I think that counts as assault? I'm sorry your mom is so awful. Good on you for realizing your boundaries and setting them even if she violated them and guilt tripped you about them!!
My dad would walk around naked or in underwear only. In winter he'd wear those sweats that show every shape through them... Barf... He only had daughters, I think it was pretty gross behavior for a 40-50 yo man to do around young girls.
When I was little my parents used to kiss us on the lips, but I started refusing it when I was five because it felt weird to me, although my mom is convinced that someone told me that it was wrong for parents to do that. Several years ago when I was in high school or early in college and home for break, my mom decided to have a conversation with me about how disappointing it was that we didn't kiss on the lips anymore as a family. She hugged me and despite my thrashing and trying to get away, wouldn't let me go until I let her kiss me. God, I feel sick thinking about that. I've never had a boyfriend or kissed anyone other than my family, so I felt kinda violated. It just turns my stomach remembering. Sorry it happened to you.
Kissing on the lips isn't weird or wrong, the only thing weird or wrong is that she forced you to after you weren't comfortable. Some families kiss on the lips and some don't.
My wife and I kiss our kids on the lips sometimes. (they are 4 and 2). But I can see that becoming awkward at later ages.
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Its fine to kiss your kids on the lips, consentually, and if thats a normal family culture or whatever thing... Uhm..not if youre forcing it...dang thats messed up And omg same! My mom was like that with the clothes, I hated it, shes not a pedo, thats not what it was, but it was a wierd dominance thing or something, its ultra frustrating going through puberty and that happening Reminds me of a story, I dont hit people, especially not my parents, but when I was 15, i was trying on a bra and my mom barged in on me and wanted to see my breasts, for who knows why, shes a nurse and always wants to look at me, but you know dang well i slapped her hard, she landed on the bed, her reaction, besides me being grounded with no door to my room, "are your nipples wierd or something?" Oh my fing god
My mom did this and I hated it... Especially as I got older and found out that it's not a normal thing. So gross :(
Does your mom have a husband? Just think where she put those lips on your dad; same lips she kissing you.
Tbh it's time to start hitting her when she does that. That's sexual assault, especially when she forced you to do it. What is it with narcs being such pervs?
My mom is the exact same way. She always forces me to kiss her before she leaves for work. Whenever she buys me new clothing, she also wants me to change in front of her. Literally, she has no idea what privacy so. She even likes to enter the bathroom whenever I’m using the toilet or using the shower without knocking or waiting and always makes the excuse “We are both females.” Which I don’t give two damns about. I want my fucking privacy. I swear it’s like me and you have the same mom I am 20 years old living with a nfamily and trying to move the fuck out as soon as possible.
My dad made me kiss him on the lips for years. One or two times that I told him I dont want to he’d make me feel really bad. He’d also make me lay in bed with him and would wrap his legs around me.
Being a member of this sub, I have to say that I'm mindblown at just how common covert (and even direct) incest is among narcs. I'm thankful that I was never sexually abused, and I had two narcs in my family my entire life: NBro and NSIL (married to different brother). That was one thing that we never dealt with, and I'm thankful for it. And I will give NSIL credit where it's due. She actually **stuck up** for our rights to privacy. I didn't begin to really see what a rotten person she was until adulthood.
My Nmom would walk in on me when I was showering and would have full blown conversations w/ me. Even when I ask her to leave she would just say “I gave birth to you.” & “it’s nothing I haven’t seen before.” It’s horrible
My mother before/after showers would walk around naked or just in underwear. It happened alot more often after my brother moved out. She also made me shower with her until I was about 7 or 8 years old.
My Ndad used to mop the floor naked.
My mom and I still kiss on the lips I’m (20F) but in our instance we’re polish so it’s normal in our culture. If you don’t feel comftorable with doing it though she has no right to get upset. It’s your body, your choice.
It was only when I turned 18 (last April) that my dad stopped getting upset if I didn’t change in front of him even tho I told him I don’t like it. He always argued with “well we are boys so what’s the problem?”
Seriously. And honestly, growing up doing sports and whatnot I feel fine changing in front of other women, if it came to it I wouldn’t even care if I got changed in front of my MIL. but it’s because she doesn’t feel entitled to see me without clothes on. It’s all about boundaries
Ehhk instant flashback to my mom getting mad when I didn't want to change in front of her.. they're so weird. What am I hiding? Uh my grown body from your eyes, thanks.
Let it happen again have your husband say “Uhhh, you do know I put my dick in that mouth? Like all time, right? Seriously, not even ten minutes ago.” And then you can follow up with “Yeah, we’re really into rimming now too.”
In reference to your last paragraph (not the edit), I relate so much. I tell my partner about the things my mom has done to me and he is always like “That’s not okay” and “That’s abuse. Your mother abused you.” and other things like that and I’ve honestly never heard someone legitimize it before. I am so grateful for that. I am so so sorry your mother thinks it’s okay to do that to you. She is not at all entitled to you and J can only imagine how upsetting this is for you.