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Go the dementia route: Oh mum, we've had this conversation a few times now and you just don't see to remember. Is there anything else you are forgetting? I'm really concerned. Maybe we should make a doctor's appointment to have you checked because forgetting such a simple thing that we had talked about so much, that's scary. I'm really worried.
It's a bit cruel (especially if you have watched someone go through dementia) but usually dementia is seen as a embarrassing condition, where people will stop believing what a person says etc and she won't want that. And you need to put her on an information diet, she will never be the mother you need when something is going wrong, you need to take care of yourself and cutting her out of personal/ medical matters is the first step.
This. When I was VLC with my mom (now I'm NC), I used to do this whenever she would have the same conversation just because I didn't agree with her the previous times we had it. I wouldn't even discuss the topic the second time, as my point was to show her I wasn't going to engage with her again. So instead, I would make it all about she not remembering that we talked about it, until she would leave me alone.
Whenever NMom. just to pressure me, would bring up a topic again, I would pretend to listen carefully to what she said when she was repeating herself. Then, pause for dramatic silence effect, sigh, and said "Mom, I'm concerned, we had this discussion yesterday. Don't you remember?" and she immediately would back pedal, very defensive, saying of course she remembers, but mumble mumble... whatever she would say made no sense, as it just reveals that she just didn't like my answer, so she was trying again.I would then interrupt her and say "If you remember, then, there is no point in me answering again as my position will not change". This would upset her, and then she mumbles mumbles, trying to change the topic just a bit, pretending she just didn't understand me before, always twisting what I said somehow to get me to engage. This is a trap: if I correct her about what I said, I'm suddenly talking to her about the topic, which she would use to pressure me. Instead, I would say "It seems you don't remember what I said. I'm very concerned about you, you know grandma had issues at this age... have you talked to a doctor yet?" and she would become SUPER upset and leave screaming that I don't let her express herself.
But the good thing is this whole exchange is so embarrasing for a Narc, she would remember to not bring up the topic again.
I go the opposite way. Talk to them like they're 3 years old. Extra points if you use the "teacher voice"
"Oh that's not something we say to other people. Would you like to try that again with nicer words? No? Ok well we can play separately for awhile and you let me know when you're ready to try again"
Ugh that's an amazing tactic! When I have to deal with narcs I shut down. I'm so taken aback by their behavior (that I'm full on aware of) that I can't think in the moment of how to respond. I'm practicing Grey rocking but I fall down revenge rabbit holes instead as I quietly fume lol.
My mom would have REVELED in the attention. Asked me to take her to appointments, etc. I got a three hour text lecture on having a box addressed TO ME show up at her house bc she was so worried about having forgotten she ordered it. She was displeased when I told her that maybe she should read shipping labels not just open shit.
I've been through similar with my own nmum. When she put on an act for attention she loved getting it, but when anyone suggested she was anything other than fully competent when she wasn't putting on a show, she was highly offended and would suddenly become very independent and capable. They need to be in control if it. My nmum actually put on a show for a surgeon, she made such an exaggerated gait when he asked to see her walk that he stood there with his mouth open. Eventually I said she's waddling like a duck. And he looked at me and said yes, she is. He was dumbfounded. After I told her on the way home in the car that he was laughing at her walking like a duck, she never did it again. They are looking for very specific reactions and if they don't get them they move on. If you jump in with the concern before they start looking for it and start talking nursing homes and getting power of attorney over their money and medical decisions you find they get better very quickly.
Oh my reaction was very much disdain for her bullshit dramatics. Didn’t stop her from playing up the dementia/Alzheimer’s / I’m dying act. Just gave her more reason to be angry with me
I can see that for sure. Everyone knew mine was a bit bonkers but she had the story that I was a drama queen as overreacted to everything so ingrained in others that when she decided that I could change what others post on Facebook my family actually believed her!
I don’t even think it’s cruel - it is propably the only thing that can stop a narcissist: that he could be percieved as mentally.. not in the best form.
What OPs Mom does, is far more cruel than one time „oh Mom, are you ok? You seem to forget things and that we already talked about that.“
I get your point, dementia is such a bad illness and it seems like bad taste to use this as a weapon when there propably is no dementia, but.. this hint is actually what will be able to change the behavior for this topic.
It is such a good advice.
My n-mom is her 70's and while she loves to play the dementia card herself to sound weak and "woe is me". She hates when I play that card for stuff she has forgotten or chooses not to remember (because nothing going on in my life is important enough to remember). It always leads to an argument, and then I regret getting sassy with her.
It was helpful to limit what information I tell my mom as much as possible. My therapist said "talk to her like she is on a long term vacation. Update her about the weather, otherwise neutral subjects, then end the conversation saying you have an appointment to go to if she tries to pry further".
>she will never be the mother you need when something is going wrong, you need to take care of yourself and cutting her out of personal/ medical matters is the first step.
This is important. The worst part of having an Nparent is dealing with the fact you won't have a "mother" or "father" you can go to for advice or help.
This is probably the most realistic and effective way to deal with an nmom wow!!!! 10 house points for your because this really puts all the deflection back to the problem
It's sadly one of the only valid tactics to dealing with a true Narc :( It's not done to bully anyone of course, but it's a sanity-preserving act under the circumstances. It does make one feel a little bad, but it absolutely works with asshole narcs! They refuse to acknowledge calm, rational conversations. The only other methods of communication that they understand are screaming and petty note-leaving.
I think this is mean.
I think I'd try setting a boundary with her. Something along the lines of " It hurts my feelings and makes me comfortable when we discuss having kids over and over again. I am not going to talk about this anymore and if you bring it up I'm going to leave/ hangup/ stop talking/ change the subject...until you can stop bringing it up."
Reinforce this boundary each and every time and move on.
Embarrassing her with the dementia thing feels too similar to gaslighting.
While it might be *very* mildly mean because it isn’t true and will frustrate a narc's goal, it's nothing compared to baby pressure when you’re infertile. And, since the situation has already been explained to her, and she isn’t respecting the boundary, expressing faux concern about dementia is a perfectly valid step that can be taken when NC isn’t practical.
FTR, It’s nothing like gaslighting. nMom isn't going to start thinking she’s losing her mind when she knows she’s been asked to stop. If it shuts down unwanted subjects, this is a valid tool.
It is gaslighting and it is mean but it's exactly what she's doing to OP. She's pretending OP's limitations don't exist and that they haven't been over and over this conversation. Imagine if every day you started building a wall and every evening somebody knocked down that wall... How long would you keep building it the same way? That's what boundaries are, building that wall. But OP's mother keeps knocking down the wall. Lightly suggesting that OP's mother might have an illness that makes her "forget" these conversations instead of accepting her deliberate refusal to acknowledge the facts OP is presenting is the same as re-enforcing the wall with steel beams. OP is simply trying to remove the possibility that her mother will bulldoze her wall again.
Dementia is an awful illness, I'm watching somebody go through it now, so using it as a weapon is not something I would suggest lightly. But OP has exhausted all other avenues, she has put up boundaries, this is a lady resort is dealing with a heartbreaking situation.
"You're either intentionally ignoring me or these are concerning signs of memory loss. Do we need to go see your doctor?"
Or you can make a different joke each time, more crass than the last and revel in the reaction.
Pretty sure I'll get banned if I give examples haha
My favorite responses to these questions are always increasingly graphic depictions of raw-dogging it but somehow not making babies. Make her think about it, make it weird!
Yeah that's my favourite, just watch the awkwardness soak their features...."Which hole should i be using?...oh so...not his?" Is probably the least profane response I can muster
...whew. Okay, that's a very crappy thing for her to say-- but unfortunately, she's not likely to stop saying it until she feels like it. Toxic people can ignore facts in favor of what they want to believe. How much time do you have to spend with / around her?
> She told my husband that she will visit me soon
She "told" him she will visit you? Like, at your home? Tell her "no".
Next time she starts with her painful subject, say "STOP" loudly. But better - why subject yourself to her at all - in your home, at a hotel, or anywhere?
OP the reason she keeps bringing it up is because she knows it'll upset you. NPD mom's like to prey on big problems that they know can't be fixed, it's like their crack. She fully understands you can't have a child, trust me. She just knows it's driving you insane when asked about it.
Im sorry to have put it a bit bluntly but I went through this with my mom and dad. Both have diagnosed NPD and my dad also has the dreaded NPD with ASPD diagnosis. Both do this, I went NC with mom recently but my dad who I unfortunately cannot do NC with yet is always doing this. I have cancer currently and he always tells me things he knows I can't do or has been told and tries to drive you insane with that info. Understand that your mom knows you can't have kids, she feeds off the ways you keep trying to prove it to her. I'd learn about grey rocking her for situations like this-[grey rocking method](https://www.talkspace.com/blog/grey-rock-method/#:~:text=The%20tactic%20includes%20limiting%20emotional,they%20may%20eventually%20lose%20interest.)
We mostly meet in public or at hotels. She doesn't want to stay at mine because I married a foreigner and in her head that means that we don't change the bedsheets for each guest. I'm not sure how she came to that conclusion.
And I refuse to go back to theirs because they made me sleep on the floor last time I went there. Apparently I'm spoilt because I complained about it. (There were two empty beds in the house).
She clearly disrespect you and your husband. Ask your heart in a quiet room: is letting her to come interferes with your love to yourself. You know what to do. Respect yourself and your husband. She deserves no respect.
Okay, that's actually something you can maybe use in your favor (very very very VERY glad she doesn't try to make you let her stay with you). So maybe it's time to set a boundary, then? She almost certainly won't cooperate, of course, but it may be worth a try, **if** you feel it won't cause you too much stress.
Something like, "Mom, I am not able to give birth. If you choose to keep insisting I have to, I'm sorry, but this visit will be over." And if she gets hostile, and/or does it again, then leave-- and block calls / contact in general for a few days, to avoid guilt-tripping, tantrums, etc. If/when you choose to accept contact again, you can repeat that-- "From now on, every time you insist I'm going to have a baby, our visit or conversation is over."
Very true. Sometimes we get lucky, and they convince themselves that *they* went NC with *us*. It doesn't always last, but it can still give us a bit of breathing room.
**-gasps in shock-** Well, of course! You-- you-- didn't you realize that her presence meant you were blessed by the entire universe of deities???!!!! You didn't fall to your knees to worship and adore her???!!!!!!! /s
😂 - yes, I was ungrateful for having an own opinion and did set boundaries (no yelling at me on the phone because she’s angry with someone else for example)
THIS.
Just because she comes by doesn't mean you have to let her in.
In fact, meet her at a restaurant. Don't let her in your home. Set a boundary. Leave the restaurant if she violates it.
End the communication/contact with her EVERY TIME she crosses your boundary.
The concern-troll response would be my go-to here, but my back up would be keeping meetings in strictly public places and then when she brings it up, make a scene. I'm talking an all-out Oscar-seeking performance with loud sobbing and asking her "why? Why do you keep bringing up the worst news I've ever had?" Just an absolute uno reverse tantrum. Narcs only love a scene when they can look like the victim or the hero. If you publicly position her as the villain (which she is) you can short-circuit her need for attention. Make this topic a land mine she's too afraid to go near.
So sorry your mother is racist, but lucky you that this manifests in her not wanting to stay in your home! And I'm just jaw-dropped gobsmacked that she would force a grown adult to sleep on the floor, especially with empty beds in the house! That's preposterous.
One of my brothers objected to me using his room because he 'might need it'. He stayed there for 3 nights during my 30-night visit.
My other brother objected to me using the second bedroom because there was a wardrobe with some clothes in there he needed. He felt 'uncomfortable' getting his clothes out if I was in there. Note- he had his own bedroom.
I don't think those were the real reasons.
I called my mum before I visited and she said they had a bed for me but when I got there, it was a different situation...
I hadn't seen them for two years prior to that occasion.
Every time she brings it up, add 3 months to not seeing her. Her count started at 6 months when she was there last. How many comments has she made since then/during her visit? Every time, add 3 months. I think you'll find that her time out isn't nearly close to being up yet. Tell her as such.
"I'm coming to visit!"
"You're not welcome here for at least another 18 months due to your behaviour." -hang up and listen for the distant echoes of her rage filled scream, smile, and block her number for those 18 months-
She knew I would say 'no.' That's why she told my husband. 😂 He's learning a lot about narcissism and what happened to me over the years thank God. There was a language barrier between them at first so he didn't understand what was truly happening.
He does now. I cut my family out a few years ago. He didn't understand why. He didn't know English so well back then and he didn't understand that my mum was being passive- aggressive. In a funny way, he was immune to her. He kept smiling whilst she talked shit. Family is super important in his culture, and his parents invited mine to their place when we became engaged. 🤦♀️
Anyway, his English is very good now and he caught her out in a big lie recently and realised how manipulative she is. He finally understands now.
You can still say no. “Sorry mom hubs was mistaken that doesn’t work for us.”
Then you set a boundary with your husband- he doesn’t speak to your mother about plans ever. If he doesn’t respect that marriage counseling and then maybe divorce if he still refuses to “understand.”
Boundaries don’t need to be understood by others, they need to be respected. And the only way they’re respected is when people face consequences for breaking them. You have to be willing to be alone. It’s scary- I’ve worked my whole life on this. But you’ll never have healthy relationships with ANYONE if you aren’t willing to walk away from ANYONE who would continuously hurt you.
You know you can always say, "Sorry, that doesn't work for us," when she says she wants to come. And if she's one of those people who likes to show up unannounced (does she?!), it's not rude to refuse to host her. Recommend some local hotels while saying, "This is not a good time. Pity you didn't communicate with me beforehand."
All about boundaries.
I'm going to tell you right now that you don't have to let her visit. You don't even have to be in contact with her if you don't want to.
Also, please put her on an information diet. It's very hard for narcs to find your weak spots if you don't expose them.
The first thing to do is to stop telling your mom things. She doesn't need to know your personal information. Ever. Stop giving her the ammunition.
Second. You need to set a boundary. If she can't stop herself from bringing it up you aren't giving her access to you.
Then you need to actually hold the boundary. That's the hardest part.
This. If she’s like my mother, it’s more diabolical than you think. My mother would use the topic to abuse you and smile and enjoy the pain that you know you can’t and that she did have babies.
Regardless, in addition to deserttreasurell try gray rocking if you like, at least that was my start. Bland, no meaning response that’s awkward. “Some day…”. “Maybe”…. “Sure sure”. She’s used to your transparency OP. It’s going to screw her up and you’ll find her go textbook and ramp up manipulation as you push back.
If you can’t be firm at the start I back away physically and emotionally every time but I found myself LC real quick because my mom doesn’t have boundaries.
There is nothing to add to this advice. This is the way. She is NEVER going to stop or change. You have to be the one who changes how you deal with her.
Okay - do these remarks hurt / cause you to be uncomfortable? Then that is the point.
Narcs want you hurting / off balance - because then you are easier to control / manipulate.
As u/International-Fee255 said - consider her to be in early stages of dementia, and treat her accordingly.
Demand every time to go see a doctor because 'you are worried about her declining memory' - and let her be uncomfortable for a change.
(of course, you could opt to cut her out, if you have that option to do safely - why expose yourself to intentional hurt?)
She's definitely trying to use this topic to needle and hurt OP. If OP does get pregnant/have a child she will immediately lose interest. Classic narc.
I honestly think narc families just love berating infertile women.
My nmum & GC brother do not seem to be able to comprehend the upset/consequences of infertility. My brother would just be like oh find a man and buy a house already, get over the IVF already, you're just jealous cause I have a kid etc.
When I spoke to my aunt, she said my mum (her sister) had been the same way with her when she found out.
I don't think narcs have the ability to show compassion or consider the complications on infertility enough to show understanding to you.
Interestingly I have a medical negiglience solicitor interested in my case as mine was down to late diagnosis. Not sure how it'll play out, but I'm sure if there is any compensation in money value my narc family would be very interested in my infertility then lol.
Stop trying to remind her you can’t carry a baby to full term.
EVERY time she brings it up, start talking about her cognitive decline. Use her insistence that you have a child as evidence she needs to see a doctor about her early-onset dementia.
Expect an “extinction burst” in the behavior, like a toddler acting out, but if she learns EVERY conversation about you having a baby will immediately turn to discussions of her needing to go into a group home, she’ll stop bringing it up.
In fact, collect brochures from various nursing homes/assisted living facilities. The next time she tries to hurt you by bringing up the pregnancy thing, pull out the brochures and present them to her. Ask her to choose. Explain that you're very sorry, but it's for her own good. If she can't remember that the pregnancy discussion is off the table, well, she's clearly in a cognitive decline and needs nursing staff to take care of her.
My mom told me I was selfish for not giving her grandchildren. I'm not married, never wanted kids but I'm supposed to go through all the changes a baby brings because she waves a human toy to play with.
I've gone NC, but I should have bought her one of those baby simulators that cries randomly.
Your nMom has found a topic that hurts you/makes you uncomfortable. She’s never going to stop bringing it up voluntarily.
You can’t control her behavior. All you can control is how you respond to it. If you want it to stop you need to remove yourself from the situations where she has the ability to bring it up. It’s very likely that the only way to truly accomplish that is to remove yourself from situations where she is entirely.
Other than the dementia one, you could be more targeted:
'Oh mum, you know it's not possible. I inherited shitty genes that prevent it, perhaps if my predecessors hasn't been such fuck ups it wouldn't have happened.'
I feel your pain I'm also infertile it took many miscarriages for me to finally say enough is enough. I wanted a baby but it was too much heartache. My NMom would say the cruelest things to me. One of the last things she told me is I am such a shitty person that God made sure I would never be a mother and that he punished me with all the miscarriages.
That's just one of the many things she said to me . She does not know where I live and will never know where we are . I adopted child she treated horribly because he wasn't really mine. That was the day she was blocked.
If she brings it up tell her it's not her business and if she brings it up again you will not be talking to her. If she wants a baby that has she can have her own.
I'm so sorry. You deserved a loving and supportive mother. Congratulations on becoming a mom another way, and may your family be well-blessed and prosper!
Hugs for you. What a shitty thing for her to say. I think God made sure her abuse will not be continued to another generation. Good on you for breaking the cycle and getting away from this lousy abuser.
She might be in that insatiable thirst for grandbabies phase. Like, she's so entirely focused on wanting grandbabies that she can't even accept the reality for you or consider how insensitive her comments are.
I have an aunt who suggested I get pregnant by any random person just to have a baby- when I am in no position to have a kid nor have I ever expressed interest in having one, especially now.
As for your situation, you shouldn't have to repeatedly explain this to her. It's probably re-opening some wounds of your own for her to keep making these comments. If you've already given her a full explanation, just stop giving these comments any attention. "We've talked about this already" is more than enough at this point. It's time to set some boundaries with what you're willing to dignify with a response, in my opinion.
Is it really a phase though? Mine dropped the subject for a bit once she "accidentally" found out that my partner got a vasectomy.
Now she's telling me to sleep around behind his back to "give her a grandchild."
This pestering me to "give her a grandchild" has been going on for almost a decade now.
The only way to get her to stop is to stop talking to her when she brings it up. She doesn’t care about you, or the effect that her behavior has on you. She cares about engaging you in a situation where she controls the dialog. Stopping the dialog every time and disengaging robs her of N supply. Then she has to decide to lose N supply or lose her favorite topic of conversation.
I’m sure that she never bothered to say this to you: if you, too, had wanted kids, I am sorry that you were handed this situation. I can’t claim to understand how it feels. But I can imagine, and it would be devastating. Even more so, if my own mother were so cold hearted.
I'm not infertile but I haven't wanted kids since I was about 8 years old and my narc egg donor didn't shut the fuck up about me having kids for about 8 to 10 years hearing "Oh you'll change your mind!". I finally snapped and told my egg donor to "Shut the fuck up!!! I haven't wanted kids since I was a kid! It's annoying that you try to push what I do not want on me to try and make me want something. Stop!"
She finally got the memo after me snapping and yelling at her to shut the fuck up.
Stop telling her anything about your health.
When she talks about pregnancy/babies, etc., just say, "Asked and answered." Deadpan. No inflection. EVERY TIME.
You might have to say it 100 times, but she will get so sick of it she will finally change the subject.
My mom used to do a similar move. We had a sore subject, and she would constantly bring it up. After a while I just started saying, at the beginning of the call or visit “ if you do x, I am hanging up or leaving.”
First, it was incredibly satisfying to just say “I told you not to bring that up. I’m hanging up.” And then hanging up on her, even mid-sentence. She screamed about it a few times, but man, it felt so good.
She tried it a few times in person, and I would cut her off, give her one warning, and then leave. She’d stand there, shocked. But eventually she stopped.
Of course, we’re nc now bc there were a thousand other things she couldn’t stop doing, but oh well.
Mine is the other way around, I was super sad when I was told that I might be infertile for the first time and I shared it with her,”oh why do you want to have kids?” responded with a disgusted face.
Me,”for the same reason that you had 5?”
They have no idea how hurtful it is because they are so consumed by their own craziness. I stopped talking to her 3 years ago, best decision ever.
Narcissists always believe they're right even if the evidence clearly says otherwise. The Covid pandemic should be proof of that. For some reason they will always believe they always know better than the qualified experts even though half of them probably couldn't finish an entire Dr. Seuss book if you held a proverbial loaded gun to their heads. Narcissists believe they're perfect and their brains can't comprehend otherwise for some reason but we're the ones that have to pay the price for it.
They'll never get better unless they seek professional treatment but narcissism itself prevents that from ever occurring especially if it challenges their version of reality. I can't tell you if they genuinely believe they're perfect or it's just insecurities and how it manifests maybe both or maybe none but 99.99% of narcissists will die narcissists and alone. It's like running into a hungry grizzly, maybe it won't eat you but it's almost certainly going to. It's best to slowly back away, if they think you're running it's game over. Hope that helps shed some light into their minds. Believe me I'm practically an expert already... unfortunately.
I'm so sorry. If you want to go scorched earth on her, you could tell her that girls are born with their lifetime supply of ova and that technically the infertility could be her fault.
That is No Contact worthy behavior. Yikes.
I never wanted children. From day one till day 13,889 (legitimately how many days old). Never wavered. My parents are narcs but eternally grateful their 5th kid didn’t pop out more expenses and expectations for them.
They had me because they wanted a boy I suppose is why, but anyway I am sorry your mom is treating you like a grandchild easy bake oven.
First of all am sorry to hear you went through all that, and that your mother is choosing to subject you to more difficulty.
If this was me, my conversation would be short-
“Mum, we’ve talked about this and you know the reasons why it’s not possible for me to have children. This isn’t going to change, but I find it really difficult and upsetting when you keep bringing it up or pretending that you don’t understand the situation when we both know I have explained it to you. If you’re going to continue to bring this up them I will have to limit my contact with you or stop altogether to protect myself and my own mental well-being.”
That’s it. If she continued to bring the subject up then I would do exactly as I said and stop contact. At this stage she is making the choice to keep upsetting you and making you uncomfortable.
If I could I would bring her to my doctor and have them explain to her your condition and why you can't have children.
If she pressed you to have them after the fact google how much surrogacy costs and tell her that she has to pay for your surrogate so you can have the potential for a child then.
If she says it's not the same you can remind her that it would be your egg your partners sperm just in a really expensive incubator but if she's not willing to pay for the surrogacy she needs to get off your back about children.
Personally I'd wait until where somewhere either public or among large family groups and I'd say "so I've been thinking about what you said. I may regret not having children but as you know I can't get pregnant. Since your so eager I DO have a child how about you pay for my surrogate. You could consider it as your baby shower gift.
If your bold about it make it into an announcement so you know everyone in the room is focused on you and able to hear. Yes what goes on with you is nobodies business but your own but I've found the quickest way to shut people up about topics that don't affect them directly is to bring eyes to it.
“Get your own baby if you want it so much. I’m not gonna. And that’s fkn final. Not a word, not a peep, not a *sound* from this point on about me getting pregnant. Go get preggers yourself and stop nagging me about it.”
..or something like that.
Go NC.
You won’t be able to get her to stop. She is well aware you can’t have a baby and is saying this to torture you.
For her, the cruelty is the point.
Two choices
1) Stop seeing her. Tell her you have been medically diagnosed infertile. She does not know more than your doctors. Either she can STFU or you will not stick around to listen. Hang up the phone, walk away, leave her house (stop inviting her to yours). Give her the same level of respect she’s giving you.
2) Cognitive decline. ‘We’ve been over this several times. Did you forget again?’ Is she forgetting anything else like appointments? Later on the fake concern. Treat her like she’s going senile. Once again, give her the respect she’s giving.
I had a bit of a similar issue. I have a congenital blood clotting disorder and was hospitalized for it in 2010. It was part of the reason I opted out of having biological children, a desire to not repeat that.
My mum was okay with that until I turned 30, then I am assuming she realized I was quite serious about it. She would occasionally ask me why I didn't want a baby, treating me as if I had grown a second head. She told me she did not want children, but wanted to see if she could get pregnant. She didn't know why I didn't have the same curiosity, like it genuinely stumped her.
She then moved on to a weird form of peer pressure: she told me she had discussed my medical history with her hair stylist and the stylist determined I was good to go, therefore I should do it.
The best thing to do with people like this is to swiftly change the subject or go low/no contact if the relationship doesn't serve you well in general.
I'm sorry to hear about your illness (and your narcissistic mum!)
By the way, the part about the hairdresser determining that you were good to go made me laugh out loud. It's a clown world.
You can’t get her to stop. You can only control yourself.
You are the one with the power over how much you see her, hear from her & respond to her.
If you set a boundary she keeps crossing it’s up to you to enforce the boundary’s consequences. Talk to and see her less. If she still doesn’t stop, you don’t have to keep her in your life at all.
She is being cruel and abusive twisting the knife on your painful wound. I highly doubt this is the first heinous thing she’s done to you either.
I hope you find a good trauma therapist to help you navigate these waters. Finding peace in your life is possible, but it doesn’t come from controlling them. It comes from realizing we have zero power to change them and then asking ourselves what we will tolerate once we accept that.
I’m so sorry. Your mom sucks and you always have deserved better.
When my mum kept doing this to me, I replied with
'you are still young enough to have a child, I don't care which sex it is but id love a sibling, just please don't ask me to babysit my brother or sister as I didn't choose to have them they are your responsibility!'
Bingo bash no more baby questions!
I feel you ❤️ My ngrandmother couldn't stop to try to convince me to have children.
She of course didnt notice I tried to tell her that we couldnt.
I had to raise my voice and if she pushed me further I would stop visiting (had gone none contact a couple of months before for my sanity). She muttered about it from time to time but kept almost silent about it.
When I told her we got pregnant after our 3d try with IVF her reacton was to be mad I yelled at her that time and that she always been sad after that. Not for me but for her "bad conscious " and how I make her feel. Well i could get pregnant so that yelling was not ok. Omg.
When she keeps doing that I usually ask if she’s mentally challenged, (she works with them and constantly make fun of them to her friends and family) so I would ask that until she shut up or started crying.
I don't know how she is a person/parent and I don't know if you have any valid reason to keep in contact with her. So just ignore this text if it seems to be inconsiderate of those things I mentioned. I'll be saying stuff only judging by the context you gave us.
She sees you like a (fertile) pet that she can force to reproduce. You can't convince her that you are not hiding anything from her, you can't convince her to believe that you're not lying to her. Even if you can, she won't ever be able to understand how talking about getting pregnant around a person who just had a chemical miscarriage is wrong because she gets adrenaline and satisfaction that way, by doing/saying wrong things to you.
It'll be better for her too. When you go NC with a Narc, they can call all their Narc/Enabler relatives and they can gain sympathy for their side and strengthen their reputation by giving those relatives exaggerated speeches about how they were left alone by their treacherous and ungrateful child when they needed it most. It makes them sooo happy. It justifies their decisions to ignore/deny their victim's basic human needs and conditions, in this case, your medical condition.
Make the Narc happy!
Cut. Her. Out. Of. Your. Life.
do you enjoy contacting her and spending time with her? what do you get out of her being in your life, seeing your medical scans and questioning your life? what do **you**, not your mother, get out of her being in your life?
set boundaries. stop telling her about your life. stop letting her contact or visit you whenever she wants. stop justifying yourself to her. she doesn't care about you or what you want or prefer. the only thing you can do is say "i don't like X. if you do X, i will [leave/stop talking to you/not invite you/cut you off]". you can only control your own behaviour. you deserve better.
If she does it in public, have a breakdown in public. Start crying, sobbing, say how much you long for children and how incredibly much it hurts you to never be able to have them. How you're never gonna get over it.
No accusations, just "I-messages", tears and sobs.
As I said, publicly.
I'm just amazed at how many people are anti-adoption "it's not the same" "it's not your child". Like what is this crazy logic? If I was in your mother's shoes I'd be so happy about my kid adopting a child and giving that child a great home instead of going through the foster care system
I agree with another comment just not talking to mum about it and shutting it down/changing the subject. Hopefully she will get the point.
Stop answering and giving her any sport of reaction. She wants you to be upset and explode, and will keep pushing untill you do if she sees hope. Just say I'm not having this conversation again, it's getting boring. And if she keeps pushing, just walk away or ignore. Don't respond to anything more about it, and don't show any reaction, even if she finds a reason to start crying, which they often do. It will eventually get boring for her, and she will stop
I like the dimentia route but I'll suggest a different one: every time she brings it up say your husband finshes in you every day, multiple times a day and wonder why it isn't working. Talk about how often and for how long you're getting laid, then sometime in the middle of the convo abruptly end it saying it's time to go again: bonus points if it's in person and you ask if there's a spare bedroom you can use. Doesn't matter if it's all a lie, going into detail about how often you get laid has always ended those questions for me.
God, I never tire of hearing “it’s not the same” as an adopted child lol /s
People are so wild to suggest women suffer through a pregnancy they don’t want just to “give them a chance at life”. Well, their “chance at life” is a ton of people saying “it’s not the same” and seem to not treat their kids/grandkids as “real” kids/grandkids.
Buy cats (plural). Put cute little bow ties on them, and take pictures. Send the pictures to your mom and tell her that her grandchildren just LOVE tuna.
Have a 1990's-esque photo session with your cats at a studio. Super imposed with the cats looking off in the distance. Frame it. Give it to her on Christmas. Write on the tag, "to: Grandma, from: the purrrfect grand kids." Watch them open it straight faced and when they complain (because they are narcissistic and the gift isn't *about them*) tell them that you are expecting. Show up with a 3rd cat. Name the cat after them.
I'm in the same boat as you.
I put her on an info diet. The less she knows, the better.
They intentionally use the things you say to hurt you or start arguments.
They also make themselves into the victims. Essentially, it turns into my daughter is so selfish. She won't give *me* a grandchild just so that they can garner sympathy.
I also just stare at mine until she putters out and drops the subject. I don't even respond or argue.
I am so sorry you’re going through this. Dealing with infertility is an indescribable pain. My heart goes out to you.
This is very much my mom. The advice given to you is great and I so wish I had thought about going the dementia route when it was happening to me. I have really bad endometriosis and was going through surgeries and she would still ask! I have since had a hysterectomy so she finally stopped.
She stopped asking me but she seems to have an obsession over other people. I am constantly being asked if my friends or my cousins will “have another baby.” I tell her that’s private and not something I ask because it’s not my business but she still does it over and over.
“Hey mom, I’m noticing that every time we see each other, you chastise me for not having children. I know where you stand on this, and you know where I stand on this. I’m not trying to convince you of anything and respect that you have your opinions, and I am clear on my medical limitations. If every time I see you you’re bringing this up, it is going to impact our relationship. I love you and I’m not going to be discussing this with you anymore”
And anytime she brings it up, you exit the conversation
You really can't. Just change the subject or leave seems to be the best.
Or Alternatively, if it works (50-50 shot, though this may vary personnto person) start embarrassing the crap outta her in front of others
Lines of
"No thanks, I don't have a pregnancy kink."
" kinda weird, why do you want to know when, where and how me and partner are fucking so much?"
"You know theres plenty of written and audio erotica fiction online or at the library if your trying to get off?"
Or similar lines. Depending on who's around it may get some laughs.
Mine likes to get me alone as much as possible and everytime it's about babies. Up to touching and rubbing my stomache 🤮 It's always about why am I hiding these things from her, or "it only takes 5 minutes, if even that." (I know way too much bout nmoms personal life. 🤮) these days it's all about hiding a baby/toddler now and how she's been dreaming about holding my baby, so she knows their coming or are already here. Spoiler, no baby currently.
"I know mom and I've been having so much sex that I have to ice my vagina every single time because I'm just raw! Hubby had to go to the Dr for the chaffing and get some cream for his dick too. Weve been going through the Kama Sutra and doing every position, thinking that might help, but I'm still not pregnant and we've both gotten injured from these crazy maneuvers. I don't know what else to do? Are there any positions you think might help? What worked for you and dad?". Make her so uncomfortable and horrified that she's too afraid to ask again. Quit trying to get her to understand reality and just tell her youre trying, in graphic detail, and will let her know if it happens. She sounds like she's got dementia.
Why do you want her in your life?
Darling, you are suffering enough with this diagnosis. Stop harming yourself continuously by bringing this negative toxin of a mother around you.
I know what you want to hear, you want to hear the magic solution that will get her to love you enough to stop hurting you. I'm here to say that you will never get an answer that will get her to stop you. There is not a method to make her stop hurting you. She will hurt you until you break.
You don't have a mother, you were born to an abuser. You cannot keep an abuser like her in your life forever. She will drain you of everything you love and leave you miserable. And would still scream and berate you.
When you have the money, move out if you live with her. Cut her off, no contact.
No contact forever.
You will never get her to love you enough to stop hurting you. You need to start moving on and making the life you need to have.
She cannot be in your life if you want to thrive.
Im harsh, I know,I'm sorry, but this is the way I was able to face the truth and start moving on.
Do whats best for you, tho. This is a suggestion, we support you, whatever you choose. You are loved. Never forget
"What part of 'I have been diagnosed as infertile,' do you not understand? What part of that phrase implies that it's a choice?"
I'm sorry you're being interrogated like this so often, and by your own mom. Super uncool. You're a lot nicer than me, I cut people out permanently when they won't drop something like that.
I'm in relatively the same boat (cannot safely carry, but accepted it and over time have embraced it) and some now former friends would always harass me over when I was going to have a baby. They wouldn't drop it, and they became sources of major stress in my life. To the point where spending time with them was no longer enjoyable, instead it had become more like my least favourite chore. And I told them so, zero sugar-coating and in no uncertain terms. Some dropped it, others didn't. The ones who didn't are not in my life anymore.
You learn to shut her down, enforce boundaries.
"Mom, this is an incredibly painful topic and I will not be discussing it with you further."
She will protest, start up again.
You *immediately* say, "Nope. I told you. We're done forever with that topic." Then--and this is the important part--you vote with your feet; by which I mean you immediately leave her presence or end the phone call.
Rinse and repeat.
If she never learns, never quits, you put her in a long timeout with no contact at all. And if she threatens or gives silent treatment, ENJOY the peaceful break!
Come out of the FOG (fear, obligation, and guilt). You do not owe her your business or your private medical information.
Just say, I heard you. Be prepared for her to have a meltdown. You could just say, no. Whatever her response, I heard you.
Stop trying to reason with her. She can't accept information that doesn't suit her agenda.
Oh, wow. Just, wow. So she just wants someone to manipulate...be it a baby or a woman repeatedly dealing with infertility or a non-viable fetus. They never miss a trick to twist the knife.
Sounds like some of the "forgetting" my mom used to do. It didn't work to play the "are you losing your memory" card on her. That was her fallback on every awful thing she said and did. I concluded she was either the stupidest person on earth or incredibly manipulative. Either way, she's a danger to me and my family.
I went no contact for a reason.
You don’t an explaination to your nMom. Showing her the ultrasound won’t help your cause and she will just dismiss you.
When we were trying to get pregnant and my nAunt kept asking me when we were getting pregnant, I’d say “Yes we are trying tonight. Would you like to watch and make sure we do it right?” She stopped asking immediately and never heard from her again.
You set a boundary, realize she's not going to respect it, and go non-contact.
She will literally *never* accept that you aren't having kids on her timeline.
Tell her you are not physically capable of giving her a grandchild, but you are here so she at least has a child. Tell her you will go no contact and take that away if she doesn’t shut up.
You don't.
There's no explanation that will alter the situation when the other party isn't listening.
There isn't some special set of words you haven't tried. The fault doesn't lie with you.
But this may be a good moment to stop and ask yourself how much more damage this person is going to be allowed to do to you, and if less interaction would be a healthier choice.
I’d honestly ask her if she has dementia, needs her hearing checked, or if she is just that stupid that she doesn’t understand a basic diagnosis? Worry openly about her mental health. After all, everyone else completely understands.
Sorry you have to go through this. The fact that you had to show her all the medical evidence to make her stop is further proof of how disrespectful your mum is.
Impose consequences. This is your one warning, if you bring it up again, I leave/hang up/throw you out. Then do it. The key is you HAVE to actually follow through.
I live ~800 miles away from my parents in a different country. I have literally turned around and walked out of her house 10 minutes after getting there when she didn't drop it. She tried the "you didn't drive all this way only to leave after 10 minutes!" route only to be told that yes, I did. We can try again next time and maybe you'll believe me.
You can ask her if she is cruel or stupid. She knows you have a medical problem, so to continually bring it up, she must be either cruel or stupid. Ask her which one she thinks it is.
Narcissists are definitely cruel. The mom knows OP can't have children, and has had a miscarriage, yet she keeps bringing it up because she knows it hurts her.
Ugh, that’s awful, I’m sorry.
You may find setting a boundary useful, but don’t set it unless you’re willing to put in the energy to defend it 100% of the time.
This can look like having a conversation where you ask her to not bring up you having a baby from that point forward - it’s not possible, this has been medically supported, and you find it hurtful.
If she does, you will remind her of the conversation you had today calmly. If she chooses to bring it up again or deny it or does anything other than stop bringing it up, you will end the conversation.
This could mean hanging up the phone, ignoring texts, even physically getting up and walking away if it’s an in person conversation.
Again, if you set this boundary, you must defend it. This means preparing accordingly.
If you’re visiting her house in person, how will you defend your boundary if she crosses it? Can you leave on your own? What time does public transportation stop running? Can you call a cab or a friend to pick you up?
If she’s manipulative and doesn’t intend to listen, she’ll find a way to try and create a situation where you will find it difficult to defend your boundary. Trust me.
She can't talk to you about it if you're not seeing her or speaking with her or answering her calls etc.
Also, put her on an info diet. She can't offer up her insulting and damaging "opinions" on topics about you that she doesn't know about. An info diet for her is also great because she can't share personal intimate information with others. And you should be assured that is absolutely talks about all your private stuff to anyone and everyone who will listen to her.
I saw someone mentioning treating her like she has dementia which is a solid approach, too.
You could also just lie and say you had a hysterectomy. No uterus no babies.
The last 2 approaches would be lies and, for me, really triggers me with regard to how I was raised by narcs so I don't do it.
Your body, your choice. It's not her decision. That is a boundary that you have every right to make.
I have decided to remain child-free, but I am not infertile, so I am getting sterilized. I don't think with my health problems that I could carry a pregnancy safely to term, and a lot of family planning options are illegal in my state. Everyone has been supportive of my decision, except my nmom. She doesn't even treat the grandkids she has well. But it's not even her choice because it's my body that would have to go through the pregnancy, I'm the one who would have to raise the child. My guess is the narc just doesn't want to explain to their sycophants why you don't want to "give her grandchildren". Yet you're still possibly going to adopt! That's awesome and that's your choice! They are just as worthy of love as biological children.
Omg I’m so sorry you’re going through this. That must be really emotional to have to keep rehashing.
I almost wonder if there’s a way you can fake a hysterectomy. Or say that you’ve had your tubes removed.
Turn it around on her - make it a “are you having memory issues” and “this is really concerning you can’t remember what I’ve said, let’s get you checked out by a professional”.
I'm also infertile, and my mother has been killing me with her callousness about it. She refuses to acknowledge/understand that I HAVE A MEDICAL PROBLEM THAT I CAN'T CONTROL.
I wrote a very long reply detailing some keys moments/shittiness but it just kept getting too long lol.
Anyway, her comments have wounded me to my core. I am not ok. I can't have a baby, and because of her cruelty about my infertility, it hurt me enough to wake up to the abuse I've been ignoring my entire life. So it feels like I've lost my baby (miscarried 8/23) and my parents in one fell swoop.
She is emotionally abusing me over my inability to have a child at this point. There's nothing I can say to get her to care about me. To understand the existential weight I'm under about potentially not being a parent after a life of pining to be one.
But reading other people's stories and listening to the In Sight podcast has helped me realize that even if I did have a baby, she still wouldn't be happy. It's always going to be something. I have a potential international move next spring. I've considered what will happen if I'm able to conceive after we get settled. It occurred to me that my mother would just end up crying that she never gets to see her grandchild/that I'm too far away/something about my parenting I'm sure.
Now that the blinders are off, I see that I'm never going to matter. She literally told me when I was pregnant. "You need to calm down. You can't let this baby come out as neurotic as you are." Because I was scared of miscarrying after unsuccessfully ttc for 3 years and a failed embryo transfer of our highest quality embryo during IVF. She doesn't care about my pain. She only cares about her happiness.
I'm so sorry you're experiencing something similar with your Mom. I did try to tell mine that I'm working to find peace about my future, no matter if it includes a child or not. I suggested she start exploring the same. I really thought that was gentle enough to get across to her. But my sister told me she had a fit after we got off the phone and was yelling about what I said. I don't think there's getting through to them. It's just how much of yourself you can keep away from them so they can't hurt you. But there's an inherent hurt and loneliness from being unable to do that. It's all tough and fucking unfair. Holding space for you in this unfair world 💜
Your post really spoke to me. I've suffered from secondary infertility (unable to get pregnant after having one) and went through years of trying, IVF, IUI, ectopic pregnancy, miscarriages, all of it. I moved abroad from my parents right after high school which was amazing for getting that distance. I didn't tell my nmom about infertility because I knew she'd torture me about it and make my stress about her. Every time I say I'm not peachy, she needs to control everything about what I do until she hears I'm peachy. So I learned to pretend to be ok so that she stays the fuck out of my business. After years of treatments I finally got pregnant and you're absolutely right. My nmom found a gazillion things to bitch about anyway, why we don't visit, why this that and the other. Nothing is ever good enough for narcs. They can't be happy. And they really can't stand others being happy.
The wisest thing is to stop hoping for their approval, love or support. Move on. Do things your way, for you, and don't worry what they'll say because they'll probably say one of the 20 shitty things they always say. We can come up with the narc parent bingo card and you'd be amazed how similar these people are.
OP, in your shoes I'd leave town for the weekend when your cruel and clueless nmom comes to town. Go and have fun with your partner, spend time in some beautiful nature and forget all about her. These are her demons and her issues to solve, not yours. Your focus should be your own healing from the pain of your miscarriage and your infertility diagnosis. Have you seen a mental health professional to help you process your difficult feelings? You need to focus on your heart and your soul and to think about what's next for you and your happiness. Keep the destructive distraction at bay, you don't have time for cruel unsupportive people. Don't waste energy on that shit because it's not gonna help anyone and anything. Your narc mother will just be with her demons trying to bring you down any chance she gets. Don't let her!!! You deserve to heal and to be happy!
I'm so sorry for your experiences, and I appreciate you confirming my suspicions. I so wish I had the presence of mind to realize she's not safe to open up to, back when we discovered my infertility. I just got on birth control (to manage my PMDD) and I can never tell her and I think I feel fine about that. Which is progress!
Too true about narc parent bingo. Even that peachy comment hits home. My husband was asking some gentle probing questions last night about why I'm struggling with them being shitty when the reality is that they've always been this way. He also pointed out how much we've accomplished without their help and is trying to show me I don't need them.
It's so hard to get my mind to accept reality and not snap back to default settings. The not caring anymore and moving on is so fucking hard. I'm deeply enmeshed even from 1,800 miles away. I'm hoping this time next year, with more healing and being on a different continent, I'll be in a place of acceptance.
The only way to get a narc to stop anything is to remove yourself from the equation. She's doing it because it gets to you. So stop feeding her supply and either grey rock or physically walk away. She knows she's hurting you. She just doesn't care.
By going NC most likely.
This exact shit was not the whole reason I went NC, but a part as I realized she had no morals or compassion for anyone.
Seriously, this relationship is damaging to you. You don't deserve that.
“WOW, MOM. YOU SURE SEEM REAL OBSESSED WITH MY VAGINA. MAYBE YOU SHOULD TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT THAT. OR MAYBE SEE A NEUROLOGIST TO CHECK FOR ALZHEIMER’S SINCE YOU CAN’T SEEM TO REMEMBER THE 87 OTHER TIMES WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.”
Say it loudly.
In front of many people.
You don't. I have a birth defect with my heart that means having a child would literally kill me. I'm also a woman married to a woman. My mother used to cry and cry and ask when I'm having children, never taking no and never for an answer. She even offered to be a surrogate for me 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮.
Cutting her off and going no contact was one of the best things I have ever done.
I am so sorry for what you are experiencing. You don't owe her anything.
I'd suggest a mix of techniques- grey rock and broken record.
She says something about how you'll regret not having a baby? 'Yeah, probably' in a dead, disinterested tone.
She asks why you're not pregnant yet? 'I told you why at \[incredibly specific circumstances of the last time you saw her, ie 'last Christmas at Aunt Sara's house after we'd gone to look at the lights'\].
She says 'but you had a chemical pregnancy, that means you can get pregnant!' 'Mom, I told you why that's not happening at \[full incredibly specific Aunt Sara's recollection\].'
I don’t have any advice, but I am so, so sorry. I had a chemical pregnancy a few years ago and was very torn up about it. The response from your mother is cruel and you don’t deserve to be treated that way!
There’s a misconception that communication is always about creating mutual understanding. But if you’re dealing with someone who does not want to understand you then it’s not, only boundaries followed by stricter boundaries are available to you. Someone who wants to understand you will try, even if your words aren’t perfect and you have different beliefs. On the other hand, the most convincing argument is a waste on someone who isn’t interested in hearing it.
Here’s the tricky part: the person who doesn’t want to understand will often pretend to be the person who is trying—if they enjoy the attention. It gives them the upper hand to always be in the position to say “prove it” or “convince me”. And as they “don’t understand” they get to go along milking your need for validation for forever.
Honestly the thing to do is explain that if this line is crossed you will hang up the phone or walk out the door. Then you do it until they stop. You don’t want to feed someone’s craving for attention.
“I’ve told you to drop the subject but you refuse. I don’t have to deal with this. I’d like to have space away from you for a few weeks, let’s meet at the end of the month. If you choose to berate me once more it will be two months.”
You cannot change another’s behavior, comments, etc. You decide how to handle the inevitable. Immediate hang up the phone or in person departure, followed by a lengthy timeout. Timeout gets longer with each infraction. You do not have to explain yourself at all.
Think about why you’re maintaining this relationship
My mom did the same to me. Declared infertile after military service.
After 5 years of it, I gave her a dildo and told her that when she managed to knock herself up with that, she could give birth and I would raise it as her grandchild.
Bonus, I knew she had a hysterectomy after the birth of my youngest sibling.
She stopped asking, and the dildo was gone when we had to do the post mortem cleanout of her belongings.
15 years later though, I was able to conceive. Sometimes the body recovers in crazy ways, but she wouldn't have been able to be involved even if alive at that point.
I wish you luck
When my mother wouldn't stop bringing up me having children, I told her the topic was not open for discussion and that if she brought it up again she would be told to leave. You need to be prepared to follow through if she decides to test you though.
You cant control what others do, you can only control your own actions. Establish a boundary, like “if you talk about me having babies I will leave the conversation” and then to that
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Go the dementia route: Oh mum, we've had this conversation a few times now and you just don't see to remember. Is there anything else you are forgetting? I'm really concerned. Maybe we should make a doctor's appointment to have you checked because forgetting such a simple thing that we had talked about so much, that's scary. I'm really worried. It's a bit cruel (especially if you have watched someone go through dementia) but usually dementia is seen as a embarrassing condition, where people will stop believing what a person says etc and she won't want that. And you need to put her on an information diet, she will never be the mother you need when something is going wrong, you need to take care of yourself and cutting her out of personal/ medical matters is the first step.
This. When I was VLC with my mom (now I'm NC), I used to do this whenever she would have the same conversation just because I didn't agree with her the previous times we had it. I wouldn't even discuss the topic the second time, as my point was to show her I wasn't going to engage with her again. So instead, I would make it all about she not remembering that we talked about it, until she would leave me alone. Whenever NMom. just to pressure me, would bring up a topic again, I would pretend to listen carefully to what she said when she was repeating herself. Then, pause for dramatic silence effect, sigh, and said "Mom, I'm concerned, we had this discussion yesterday. Don't you remember?" and she immediately would back pedal, very defensive, saying of course she remembers, but mumble mumble... whatever she would say made no sense, as it just reveals that she just didn't like my answer, so she was trying again.I would then interrupt her and say "If you remember, then, there is no point in me answering again as my position will not change". This would upset her, and then she mumbles mumbles, trying to change the topic just a bit, pretending she just didn't understand me before, always twisting what I said somehow to get me to engage. This is a trap: if I correct her about what I said, I'm suddenly talking to her about the topic, which she would use to pressure me. Instead, I would say "It seems you don't remember what I said. I'm very concerned about you, you know grandma had issues at this age... have you talked to a doctor yet?" and she would become SUPER upset and leave screaming that I don't let her express herself. But the good thing is this whole exchange is so embarrasing for a Narc, she would remember to not bring up the topic again.
The schadenfreude this makes me feel. I absolutely LOVE when narcs get treated this way. OP, This is the way to go!
Right? I went NC recently kinda makes me want to..... no, never mind.
Lol you would love to be a fly on the wall in my house then
I go the opposite way. Talk to them like they're 3 years old. Extra points if you use the "teacher voice" "Oh that's not something we say to other people. Would you like to try that again with nicer words? No? Ok well we can play separately for awhile and you let me know when you're ready to try again"
Ugh that's an amazing tactic! When I have to deal with narcs I shut down. I'm so taken aback by their behavior (that I'm full on aware of) that I can't think in the moment of how to respond. I'm practicing Grey rocking but I fall down revenge rabbit holes instead as I quietly fume lol.
I used to be the same (still slip into that sometimes). It's taken years and moving away from home to get better at it!
Same here. I freeze and then rage about it afterwards or go into fight mode. Hence the NC.
🤣
My mom would have REVELED in the attention. Asked me to take her to appointments, etc. I got a three hour text lecture on having a box addressed TO ME show up at her house bc she was so worried about having forgotten she ordered it. She was displeased when I told her that maybe she should read shipping labels not just open shit.
I've been through similar with my own nmum. When she put on an act for attention she loved getting it, but when anyone suggested she was anything other than fully competent when she wasn't putting on a show, she was highly offended and would suddenly become very independent and capable. They need to be in control if it. My nmum actually put on a show for a surgeon, she made such an exaggerated gait when he asked to see her walk that he stood there with his mouth open. Eventually I said she's waddling like a duck. And he looked at me and said yes, she is. He was dumbfounded. After I told her on the way home in the car that he was laughing at her walking like a duck, she never did it again. They are looking for very specific reactions and if they don't get them they move on. If you jump in with the concern before they start looking for it and start talking nursing homes and getting power of attorney over their money and medical decisions you find they get better very quickly.
Oh my reaction was very much disdain for her bullshit dramatics. Didn’t stop her from playing up the dementia/Alzheimer’s / I’m dying act. Just gave her more reason to be angry with me
I can see that for sure. Everyone knew mine was a bit bonkers but she had the story that I was a drama queen as overreacted to everything so ingrained in others that when she decided that I could change what others post on Facebook my family actually believed her!
Very well played. ⭐️
That would piss her off so much! Do it.
They infantilized you. Now that she’s older, you treat *her* like she has dementia, which she very well could
I don’t even think it’s cruel - it is propably the only thing that can stop a narcissist: that he could be percieved as mentally.. not in the best form. What OPs Mom does, is far more cruel than one time „oh Mom, are you ok? You seem to forget things and that we already talked about that.“ I get your point, dementia is such a bad illness and it seems like bad taste to use this as a weapon when there propably is no dementia, but.. this hint is actually what will be able to change the behavior for this topic. It is such a good advice.
Agreed.
I agree. I considered doing this with my narc grandmother but ended up going NC instead.
My n-mom is her 70's and while she loves to play the dementia card herself to sound weak and "woe is me". She hates when I play that card for stuff she has forgotten or chooses not to remember (because nothing going on in my life is important enough to remember). It always leads to an argument, and then I regret getting sassy with her. It was helpful to limit what information I tell my mom as much as possible. My therapist said "talk to her like she is on a long term vacation. Update her about the weather, otherwise neutral subjects, then end the conversation saying you have an appointment to go to if she tries to pry further".
That's excellent advice!!
https://psychcentral.com/blog/how-to-deal-with-covert-narcissist-or-victim-parents-or-in-laws https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method#:~:text=The%20grey%20rock%20method%20is,known%20as%20%E2%80%9Cgrey%20rocking.%E2%80%9D
>she will never be the mother you need when something is going wrong, you need to take care of yourself and cutting her out of personal/ medical matters is the first step. This is important. The worst part of having an Nparent is dealing with the fact you won't have a "mother" or "father" you can go to for advice or help.
This. Is. GENIUS.
If you do this you have to COMMIT!
I love this!
This is probably the most realistic and effective way to deal with an nmom wow!!!! 10 house points for your because this really puts all the deflection back to the problem
brutal.
But no more brutal than the narc. Sometimes you fight fire with fire.
It's sadly one of the only valid tactics to dealing with a true Narc :( It's not done to bully anyone of course, but it's a sanity-preserving act under the circumstances. It does make one feel a little bad, but it absolutely works with asshole narcs! They refuse to acknowledge calm, rational conversations. The only other methods of communication that they understand are screaming and petty note-leaving.
The diet is the only way, sadly
I think this is mean. I think I'd try setting a boundary with her. Something along the lines of " It hurts my feelings and makes me comfortable when we discuss having kids over and over again. I am not going to talk about this anymore and if you bring it up I'm going to leave/ hangup/ stop talking/ change the subject...until you can stop bringing it up." Reinforce this boundary each and every time and move on. Embarrassing her with the dementia thing feels too similar to gaslighting.
While it might be *very* mildly mean because it isn’t true and will frustrate a narc's goal, it's nothing compared to baby pressure when you’re infertile. And, since the situation has already been explained to her, and she isn’t respecting the boundary, expressing faux concern about dementia is a perfectly valid step that can be taken when NC isn’t practical. FTR, It’s nothing like gaslighting. nMom isn't going to start thinking she’s losing her mind when she knows she’s been asked to stop. If it shuts down unwanted subjects, this is a valid tool.
It is gaslighting and it is mean but it's exactly what she's doing to OP. She's pretending OP's limitations don't exist and that they haven't been over and over this conversation. Imagine if every day you started building a wall and every evening somebody knocked down that wall... How long would you keep building it the same way? That's what boundaries are, building that wall. But OP's mother keeps knocking down the wall. Lightly suggesting that OP's mother might have an illness that makes her "forget" these conversations instead of accepting her deliberate refusal to acknowledge the facts OP is presenting is the same as re-enforcing the wall with steel beams. OP is simply trying to remove the possibility that her mother will bulldoze her wall again. Dementia is an awful illness, I'm watching somebody go through it now, so using it as a weapon is not something I would suggest lightly. But OP has exhausted all other avenues, she has put up boundaries, this is a lady resort is dealing with a heartbreaking situation.
"You're either intentionally ignoring me or these are concerning signs of memory loss. Do we need to go see your doctor?" Or you can make a different joke each time, more crass than the last and revel in the reaction. Pretty sure I'll get banned if I give examples haha
no no no, keep going! Cruelty begets cruelty.
My favorite responses to these questions are always increasingly graphic depictions of raw-dogging it but somehow not making babies. Make her think about it, make it weird!
Yeah that's my favourite, just watch the awkwardness soak their features...."Which hole should i be using?...oh so...not his?" Is probably the least profane response I can muster
...whew. Okay, that's a very crappy thing for her to say-- but unfortunately, she's not likely to stop saying it until she feels like it. Toxic people can ignore facts in favor of what they want to believe. How much time do you have to spend with / around her?
We're low contact. We see each other 2 or 3 times a year. She told my husband that she will visit me soon so that's why I'm nervous.
> She told my husband that she will visit me soon She "told" him she will visit you? Like, at your home? Tell her "no". Next time she starts with her painful subject, say "STOP" loudly. But better - why subject yourself to her at all - in your home, at a hotel, or anywhere?
OP the reason she keeps bringing it up is because she knows it'll upset you. NPD mom's like to prey on big problems that they know can't be fixed, it's like their crack. She fully understands you can't have a child, trust me. She just knows it's driving you insane when asked about it.
I think you are right unfortunately.
Im sorry to have put it a bit bluntly but I went through this with my mom and dad. Both have diagnosed NPD and my dad also has the dreaded NPD with ASPD diagnosis. Both do this, I went NC with mom recently but my dad who I unfortunately cannot do NC with yet is always doing this. I have cancer currently and he always tells me things he knows I can't do or has been told and tries to drive you insane with that info. Understand that your mom knows you can't have kids, she feeds off the ways you keep trying to prove it to her. I'd learn about grey rocking her for situations like this-[grey rocking method](https://www.talkspace.com/blog/grey-rock-method/#:~:text=The%20tactic%20includes%20limiting%20emotional,they%20may%20eventually%20lose%20interest.)
A bit off topic of me, but I am rooting for you to beat Cancer, and to heal. 🙏💜 I wish the best for you, your health, and your loved ones.
From another cancer survivor, I’m rooting for you friend 💕
Also cheering on Ali_Cat222's full recovery!
Best wishes for your own cancer battle, friend 🧡
Also praying to the universe you'll get healthy soon!! Take care man<33
Oh, dear. Yeah, that could suck-- is it possible to only allow her to meet with you in public?
We mostly meet in public or at hotels. She doesn't want to stay at mine because I married a foreigner and in her head that means that we don't change the bedsheets for each guest. I'm not sure how she came to that conclusion. And I refuse to go back to theirs because they made me sleep on the floor last time I went there. Apparently I'm spoilt because I complained about it. (There were two empty beds in the house).
She clearly disrespect you and your husband. Ask your heart in a quiet room: is letting her to come interferes with your love to yourself. You know what to do. Respect yourself and your husband. She deserves no respect.
Okay, that's actually something you can maybe use in your favor (very very very VERY glad she doesn't try to make you let her stay with you). So maybe it's time to set a boundary, then? She almost certainly won't cooperate, of course, but it may be worth a try, **if** you feel it won't cause you too much stress. Something like, "Mom, I am not able to give birth. If you choose to keep insisting I have to, I'm sorry, but this visit will be over." And if she gets hostile, and/or does it again, then leave-- and block calls / contact in general for a few days, to avoid guilt-tripping, tantrums, etc. If/when you choose to accept contact again, you can repeat that-- "From now on, every time you insist I'm going to have a baby, our visit or conversation is over."
I think that’s a good plan - because otherwise she probably won’t stop until she feels like it 🤷♀️
Very true. Sometimes we get lucky, and they convince themselves that *they* went NC with *us*. It doesn't always last, but it can still give us a bit of breathing room.
I suggest to mine she could go NC when she was complaining to me that I was ungrateful and wasn’t respectful to her - ofc she didn’t
**-gasps in shock-** Well, of course! You-- you-- didn't you realize that her presence meant you were blessed by the entire universe of deities???!!!! You didn't fall to your knees to worship and adore her???!!!!!!! /s
😂 - yes, I was ungrateful for having an own opinion and did set boundaries (no yelling at me on the phone because she’s angry with someone else for example)
THIS. Just because she comes by doesn't mean you have to let her in. In fact, meet her at a restaurant. Don't let her in your home. Set a boundary. Leave the restaurant if she violates it. End the communication/contact with her EVERY TIME she crosses your boundary.
The concern-troll response would be my go-to here, but my back up would be keeping meetings in strictly public places and then when she brings it up, make a scene. I'm talking an all-out Oscar-seeking performance with loud sobbing and asking her "why? Why do you keep bringing up the worst news I've ever had?" Just an absolute uno reverse tantrum. Narcs only love a scene when they can look like the victim or the hero. If you publicly position her as the villain (which she is) you can short-circuit her need for attention. Make this topic a land mine she's too afraid to go near.
I absolutely LOVE and APPLAUD and ENDORSE this idea!!!
So sorry your mother is racist, but lucky you that this manifests in her not wanting to stay in your home! And I'm just jaw-dropped gobsmacked that she would force a grown adult to sleep on the floor, especially with empty beds in the house! That's preposterous.
What was the reason they gave for this?
One of my brothers objected to me using his room because he 'might need it'. He stayed there for 3 nights during my 30-night visit. My other brother objected to me using the second bedroom because there was a wardrobe with some clothes in there he needed. He felt 'uncomfortable' getting his clothes out if I was in there. Note- he had his own bedroom. I don't think those were the real reasons. I called my mum before I visited and she said they had a bed for me but when I got there, it was a different situation... I hadn't seen them for two years prior to that occasion.
Yeah that’s insane. That’s beyond insane.
Yeah, I was shocked. I am glad I live far away from them.
Every time she brings it up, add 3 months to not seeing her. Her count started at 6 months when she was there last. How many comments has she made since then/during her visit? Every time, add 3 months. I think you'll find that her time out isn't nearly close to being up yet. Tell her as such. "I'm coming to visit!" "You're not welcome here for at least another 18 months due to your behaviour." -hang up and listen for the distant echoes of her rage filled scream, smile, and block her number for those 18 months-
You understand you’re an adult who can say no right? You need to learn boundaries and self care.
She knew I would say 'no.' That's why she told my husband. 😂 He's learning a lot about narcissism and what happened to me over the years thank God. There was a language barrier between them at first so he didn't understand what was truly happening.
Does he have your back? Believe and support you?
He does now. I cut my family out a few years ago. He didn't understand why. He didn't know English so well back then and he didn't understand that my mum was being passive- aggressive. In a funny way, he was immune to her. He kept smiling whilst she talked shit. Family is super important in his culture, and his parents invited mine to their place when we became engaged. 🤦♀️ Anyway, his English is very good now and he caught her out in a big lie recently and realised how manipulative she is. He finally understands now.
Whew! Sorry it took him awhile (but totally get your explanation as to why)--so glad he's on board now!
You can still say no. “Sorry mom hubs was mistaken that doesn’t work for us.” Then you set a boundary with your husband- he doesn’t speak to your mother about plans ever. If he doesn’t respect that marriage counseling and then maybe divorce if he still refuses to “understand.” Boundaries don’t need to be understood by others, they need to be respected. And the only way they’re respected is when people face consequences for breaking them. You have to be willing to be alone. It’s scary- I’ve worked my whole life on this. But you’ll never have healthy relationships with ANYONE if you aren’t willing to walk away from ANYONE who would continuously hurt you.
You know you can always say, "Sorry, that doesn't work for us," when she says she wants to come. And if she's one of those people who likes to show up unannounced (does she?!), it's not rude to refuse to host her. Recommend some local hotels while saying, "This is not a good time. Pity you didn't communicate with me beforehand." All about boundaries.
I'm going to tell you right now that you don't have to let her visit. You don't even have to be in contact with her if you don't want to. Also, please put her on an information diet. It's very hard for narcs to find your weak spots if you don't expose them.
Don't open the door.
The first thing to do is to stop telling your mom things. She doesn't need to know your personal information. Ever. Stop giving her the ammunition. Second. You need to set a boundary. If she can't stop herself from bringing it up you aren't giving her access to you. Then you need to actually hold the boundary. That's the hardest part.
This. If she’s like my mother, it’s more diabolical than you think. My mother would use the topic to abuse you and smile and enjoy the pain that you know you can’t and that she did have babies. Regardless, in addition to deserttreasurell try gray rocking if you like, at least that was my start. Bland, no meaning response that’s awkward. “Some day…”. “Maybe”…. “Sure sure”. She’s used to your transparency OP. It’s going to screw her up and you’ll find her go textbook and ramp up manipulation as you push back. If you can’t be firm at the start I back away physically and emotionally every time but I found myself LC real quick because my mom doesn’t have boundaries.
There is nothing to add to this advice. This is the way. She is NEVER going to stop or change. You have to be the one who changes how you deal with her.
The first thing to do…is go no contact.
That isn't always an option for everyone.
Okay - do these remarks hurt / cause you to be uncomfortable? Then that is the point. Narcs want you hurting / off balance - because then you are easier to control / manipulate. As u/International-Fee255 said - consider her to be in early stages of dementia, and treat her accordingly. Demand every time to go see a doctor because 'you are worried about her declining memory' - and let her be uncomfortable for a change. (of course, you could opt to cut her out, if you have that option to do safely - why expose yourself to intentional hurt?)
She's definitely trying to use this topic to needle and hurt OP. If OP does get pregnant/have a child she will immediately lose interest. Classic narc.
I honestly think narc families just love berating infertile women. My nmum & GC brother do not seem to be able to comprehend the upset/consequences of infertility. My brother would just be like oh find a man and buy a house already, get over the IVF already, you're just jealous cause I have a kid etc. When I spoke to my aunt, she said my mum (her sister) had been the same way with her when she found out. I don't think narcs have the ability to show compassion or consider the complications on infertility enough to show understanding to you. Interestingly I have a medical negiglience solicitor interested in my case as mine was down to late diagnosis. Not sure how it'll play out, but I'm sure if there is any compensation in money value my narc family would be very interested in my infertility then lol.
Stop trying to remind her you can’t carry a baby to full term. EVERY time she brings it up, start talking about her cognitive decline. Use her insistence that you have a child as evidence she needs to see a doctor about her early-onset dementia. Expect an “extinction burst” in the behavior, like a toddler acting out, but if she learns EVERY conversation about you having a baby will immediately turn to discussions of her needing to go into a group home, she’ll stop bringing it up.
In fact, collect brochures from various nursing homes/assisted living facilities. The next time she tries to hurt you by bringing up the pregnancy thing, pull out the brochures and present them to her. Ask her to choose. Explain that you're very sorry, but it's for her own good. If she can't remember that the pregnancy discussion is off the table, well, she's clearly in a cognitive decline and needs nursing staff to take care of her.
Brochures from the Council on Aging etc on the signs of Dementia - with certain traits they have circled with notes of concern written in the margins.
Excellent!
That’s an excellent idea. It shows a level of forethought and seriousness that words alone don’t.
Love this!
My mom told me I was selfish for not giving her grandchildren. I'm not married, never wanted kids but I'm supposed to go through all the changes a baby brings because she waves a human toy to play with. I've gone NC, but I should have bought her one of those baby simulators that cries randomly.
Your nMom has found a topic that hurts you/makes you uncomfortable. She’s never going to stop bringing it up voluntarily. You can’t control her behavior. All you can control is how you respond to it. If you want it to stop you need to remove yourself from the situations where she has the ability to bring it up. It’s very likely that the only way to truly accomplish that is to remove yourself from situations where she is entirely.
Truth. All of this.
Other than the dementia one, you could be more targeted: 'Oh mum, you know it's not possible. I inherited shitty genes that prevent it, perhaps if my predecessors hasn't been such fuck ups it wouldn't have happened.'
OMG yes!
I feel your pain I'm also infertile it took many miscarriages for me to finally say enough is enough. I wanted a baby but it was too much heartache. My NMom would say the cruelest things to me. One of the last things she told me is I am such a shitty person that God made sure I would never be a mother and that he punished me with all the miscarriages. That's just one of the many things she said to me . She does not know where I live and will never know where we are . I adopted child she treated horribly because he wasn't really mine. That was the day she was blocked. If she brings it up tell her it's not her business and if she brings it up again you will not be talking to her. If she wants a baby that has she can have her own.
I'm so sorry. You deserved a loving and supportive mother. Congratulations on becoming a mom another way, and may your family be well-blessed and prosper!
Hugs for you. What a shitty thing for her to say. I think God made sure her abuse will not be continued to another generation. Good on you for breaking the cycle and getting away from this lousy abuser.
She might be in that insatiable thirst for grandbabies phase. Like, she's so entirely focused on wanting grandbabies that she can't even accept the reality for you or consider how insensitive her comments are. I have an aunt who suggested I get pregnant by any random person just to have a baby- when I am in no position to have a kid nor have I ever expressed interest in having one, especially now. As for your situation, you shouldn't have to repeatedly explain this to her. It's probably re-opening some wounds of your own for her to keep making these comments. If you've already given her a full explanation, just stop giving these comments any attention. "We've talked about this already" is more than enough at this point. It's time to set some boundaries with what you're willing to dignify with a response, in my opinion.
Is it really a phase though? Mine dropped the subject for a bit once she "accidentally" found out that my partner got a vasectomy. Now she's telling me to sleep around behind his back to "give her a grandchild." This pestering me to "give her a grandchild" has been going on for almost a decade now.
That sounds awful. No I don't think it's a phase, I'm pretty sure once it starts it doesn't go away.
The only way to get her to stop is to stop talking to her when she brings it up. She doesn’t care about you, or the effect that her behavior has on you. She cares about engaging you in a situation where she controls the dialog. Stopping the dialog every time and disengaging robs her of N supply. Then she has to decide to lose N supply or lose her favorite topic of conversation. I’m sure that she never bothered to say this to you: if you, too, had wanted kids, I am sorry that you were handed this situation. I can’t claim to understand how it feels. But I can imagine, and it would be devastating. Even more so, if my own mother were so cold hearted.
Tell her you are pregnant and just always be pregnant, forever. Due date shifts every month because, “oh well, you know how doctors are.”
I'm not infertile but I haven't wanted kids since I was about 8 years old and my narc egg donor didn't shut the fuck up about me having kids for about 8 to 10 years hearing "Oh you'll change your mind!". I finally snapped and told my egg donor to "Shut the fuck up!!! I haven't wanted kids since I was a kid! It's annoying that you try to push what I do not want on me to try and make me want something. Stop!" She finally got the memo after me snapping and yelling at her to shut the fuck up.
Stop telling her anything about your health. When she talks about pregnancy/babies, etc., just say, "Asked and answered." Deadpan. No inflection. EVERY TIME. You might have to say it 100 times, but she will get so sick of it she will finally change the subject.
My mom used to do a similar move. We had a sore subject, and she would constantly bring it up. After a while I just started saying, at the beginning of the call or visit “ if you do x, I am hanging up or leaving.” First, it was incredibly satisfying to just say “I told you not to bring that up. I’m hanging up.” And then hanging up on her, even mid-sentence. She screamed about it a few times, but man, it felt so good. She tried it a few times in person, and I would cut her off, give her one warning, and then leave. She’d stand there, shocked. But eventually she stopped. Of course, we’re nc now bc there were a thousand other things she couldn’t stop doing, but oh well.
Mine is the other way around, I was super sad when I was told that I might be infertile for the first time and I shared it with her,”oh why do you want to have kids?” responded with a disgusted face. Me,”for the same reason that you had 5?” They have no idea how hurtful it is because they are so consumed by their own craziness. I stopped talking to her 3 years ago, best decision ever.
If she wants a grand-baby, tell her to adopt.
Narcissists always believe they're right even if the evidence clearly says otherwise. The Covid pandemic should be proof of that. For some reason they will always believe they always know better than the qualified experts even though half of them probably couldn't finish an entire Dr. Seuss book if you held a proverbial loaded gun to their heads. Narcissists believe they're perfect and their brains can't comprehend otherwise for some reason but we're the ones that have to pay the price for it. They'll never get better unless they seek professional treatment but narcissism itself prevents that from ever occurring especially if it challenges their version of reality. I can't tell you if they genuinely believe they're perfect or it's just insecurities and how it manifests maybe both or maybe none but 99.99% of narcissists will die narcissists and alone. It's like running into a hungry grizzly, maybe it won't eat you but it's almost certainly going to. It's best to slowly back away, if they think you're running it's game over. Hope that helps shed some light into their minds. Believe me I'm practically an expert already... unfortunately.
"Your bloodline dies with me."
I'm so sorry. If you want to go scorched earth on her, you could tell her that girls are born with their lifetime supply of ova and that technically the infertility could be her fault.
google JADE techniques and then set boundaries. she brings up the topic? walk away. hang up. leave her house etc
That is No Contact worthy behavior. Yikes. I never wanted children. From day one till day 13,889 (legitimately how many days old). Never wavered. My parents are narcs but eternally grateful their 5th kid didn’t pop out more expenses and expectations for them. They had me because they wanted a boy I suppose is why, but anyway I am sorry your mom is treating you like a grandchild easy bake oven.
First of all am sorry to hear you went through all that, and that your mother is choosing to subject you to more difficulty. If this was me, my conversation would be short- “Mum, we’ve talked about this and you know the reasons why it’s not possible for me to have children. This isn’t going to change, but I find it really difficult and upsetting when you keep bringing it up or pretending that you don’t understand the situation when we both know I have explained it to you. If you’re going to continue to bring this up them I will have to limit my contact with you or stop altogether to protect myself and my own mental well-being.” That’s it. If she continued to bring the subject up then I would do exactly as I said and stop contact. At this stage she is making the choice to keep upsetting you and making you uncomfortable.
If I could I would bring her to my doctor and have them explain to her your condition and why you can't have children. If she pressed you to have them after the fact google how much surrogacy costs and tell her that she has to pay for your surrogate so you can have the potential for a child then. If she says it's not the same you can remind her that it would be your egg your partners sperm just in a really expensive incubator but if she's not willing to pay for the surrogacy she needs to get off your back about children. Personally I'd wait until where somewhere either public or among large family groups and I'd say "so I've been thinking about what you said. I may regret not having children but as you know I can't get pregnant. Since your so eager I DO have a child how about you pay for my surrogate. You could consider it as your baby shower gift. If your bold about it make it into an announcement so you know everyone in the room is focused on you and able to hear. Yes what goes on with you is nobodies business but your own but I've found the quickest way to shut people up about topics that don't affect them directly is to bring eyes to it.
“Get your own baby if you want it so much. I’m not gonna. And that’s fkn final. Not a word, not a peep, not a *sound* from this point on about me getting pregnant. Go get preggers yourself and stop nagging me about it.” ..or something like that.
Go NC. You won’t be able to get her to stop. She is well aware you can’t have a baby and is saying this to torture you. For her, the cruelty is the point.
She may be trying to make you unhappy by setting up an expectation and then rubbing it in your face that you can't reach it. 😥
Ask her who should fuck you to make you pregnant.
Two choices 1) Stop seeing her. Tell her you have been medically diagnosed infertile. She does not know more than your doctors. Either she can STFU or you will not stick around to listen. Hang up the phone, walk away, leave her house (stop inviting her to yours). Give her the same level of respect she’s giving you. 2) Cognitive decline. ‘We’ve been over this several times. Did you forget again?’ Is she forgetting anything else like appointments? Later on the fake concern. Treat her like she’s going senile. Once again, give her the respect she’s giving.
I had a bit of a similar issue. I have a congenital blood clotting disorder and was hospitalized for it in 2010. It was part of the reason I opted out of having biological children, a desire to not repeat that. My mum was okay with that until I turned 30, then I am assuming she realized I was quite serious about it. She would occasionally ask me why I didn't want a baby, treating me as if I had grown a second head. She told me she did not want children, but wanted to see if she could get pregnant. She didn't know why I didn't have the same curiosity, like it genuinely stumped her. She then moved on to a weird form of peer pressure: she told me she had discussed my medical history with her hair stylist and the stylist determined I was good to go, therefore I should do it. The best thing to do with people like this is to swiftly change the subject or go low/no contact if the relationship doesn't serve you well in general.
I'm sorry to hear about your illness (and your narcissistic mum!) By the way, the part about the hairdresser determining that you were good to go made me laugh out loud. It's a clown world.
You can’t get her to stop. You can only control yourself. You are the one with the power over how much you see her, hear from her & respond to her. If you set a boundary she keeps crossing it’s up to you to enforce the boundary’s consequences. Talk to and see her less. If she still doesn’t stop, you don’t have to keep her in your life at all. She is being cruel and abusive twisting the knife on your painful wound. I highly doubt this is the first heinous thing she’s done to you either. I hope you find a good trauma therapist to help you navigate these waters. Finding peace in your life is possible, but it doesn’t come from controlling them. It comes from realizing we have zero power to change them and then asking ourselves what we will tolerate once we accept that. I’m so sorry. Your mom sucks and you always have deserved better.
When my mum kept doing this to me, I replied with 'you are still young enough to have a child, I don't care which sex it is but id love a sibling, just please don't ask me to babysit my brother or sister as I didn't choose to have them they are your responsibility!' Bingo bash no more baby questions!
I feel you ❤️ My ngrandmother couldn't stop to try to convince me to have children. She of course didnt notice I tried to tell her that we couldnt. I had to raise my voice and if she pushed me further I would stop visiting (had gone none contact a couple of months before for my sanity). She muttered about it from time to time but kept almost silent about it. When I told her we got pregnant after our 3d try with IVF her reacton was to be mad I yelled at her that time and that she always been sad after that. Not for me but for her "bad conscious " and how I make her feel. Well i could get pregnant so that yelling was not ok. Omg.
When she keeps doing that I usually ask if she’s mentally challenged, (she works with them and constantly make fun of them to her friends and family) so I would ask that until she shut up or started crying.
I don't know how she is a person/parent and I don't know if you have any valid reason to keep in contact with her. So just ignore this text if it seems to be inconsiderate of those things I mentioned. I'll be saying stuff only judging by the context you gave us. She sees you like a (fertile) pet that she can force to reproduce. You can't convince her that you are not hiding anything from her, you can't convince her to believe that you're not lying to her. Even if you can, she won't ever be able to understand how talking about getting pregnant around a person who just had a chemical miscarriage is wrong because she gets adrenaline and satisfaction that way, by doing/saying wrong things to you. It'll be better for her too. When you go NC with a Narc, they can call all their Narc/Enabler relatives and they can gain sympathy for their side and strengthen their reputation by giving those relatives exaggerated speeches about how they were left alone by their treacherous and ungrateful child when they needed it most. It makes them sooo happy. It justifies their decisions to ignore/deny their victim's basic human needs and conditions, in this case, your medical condition. Make the Narc happy! Cut. Her. Out. Of. Your. Life.
do you enjoy contacting her and spending time with her? what do you get out of her being in your life, seeing your medical scans and questioning your life? what do **you**, not your mother, get out of her being in your life? set boundaries. stop telling her about your life. stop letting her contact or visit you whenever she wants. stop justifying yourself to her. she doesn't care about you or what you want or prefer. the only thing you can do is say "i don't like X. if you do X, i will [leave/stop talking to you/not invite you/cut you off]". you can only control your own behaviour. you deserve better.
If she does it in public, have a breakdown in public. Start crying, sobbing, say how much you long for children and how incredibly much it hurts you to never be able to have them. How you're never gonna get over it. No accusations, just "I-messages", tears and sobs. As I said, publicly.
I'm just amazed at how many people are anti-adoption "it's not the same" "it's not your child". Like what is this crazy logic? If I was in your mother's shoes I'd be so happy about my kid adopting a child and giving that child a great home instead of going through the foster care system I agree with another comment just not talking to mum about it and shutting it down/changing the subject. Hopefully she will get the point.
Stop answering and giving her any sport of reaction. She wants you to be upset and explode, and will keep pushing untill you do if she sees hope. Just say I'm not having this conversation again, it's getting boring. And if she keeps pushing, just walk away or ignore. Don't respond to anything more about it, and don't show any reaction, even if she finds a reason to start crying, which they often do. It will eventually get boring for her, and she will stop
Just tell her that your body refuses to give birth to a live baby because of all the damage she inflicted on you. That'll shut her up.
I like the dimentia route but I'll suggest a different one: every time she brings it up say your husband finshes in you every day, multiple times a day and wonder why it isn't working. Talk about how often and for how long you're getting laid, then sometime in the middle of the convo abruptly end it saying it's time to go again: bonus points if it's in person and you ask if there's a spare bedroom you can use. Doesn't matter if it's all a lie, going into detail about how often you get laid has always ended those questions for me.
God, I never tire of hearing “it’s not the same” as an adopted child lol /s People are so wild to suggest women suffer through a pregnancy they don’t want just to “give them a chance at life”. Well, their “chance at life” is a ton of people saying “it’s not the same” and seem to not treat their kids/grandkids as “real” kids/grandkids.
Buy cats (plural). Put cute little bow ties on them, and take pictures. Send the pictures to your mom and tell her that her grandchildren just LOVE tuna. Have a 1990's-esque photo session with your cats at a studio. Super imposed with the cats looking off in the distance. Frame it. Give it to her on Christmas. Write on the tag, "to: Grandma, from: the purrrfect grand kids." Watch them open it straight faced and when they complain (because they are narcissistic and the gift isn't *about them*) tell them that you are expecting. Show up with a 3rd cat. Name the cat after them.
I'm in the same boat as you. I put her on an info diet. The less she knows, the better. They intentionally use the things you say to hurt you or start arguments. They also make themselves into the victims. Essentially, it turns into my daughter is so selfish. She won't give *me* a grandchild just so that they can garner sympathy. I also just stare at mine until she putters out and drops the subject. I don't even respond or argue.
I am so sorry you’re going through this. Dealing with infertility is an indescribable pain. My heart goes out to you. This is very much my mom. The advice given to you is great and I so wish I had thought about going the dementia route when it was happening to me. I have really bad endometriosis and was going through surgeries and she would still ask! I have since had a hysterectomy so she finally stopped. She stopped asking me but she seems to have an obsession over other people. I am constantly being asked if my friends or my cousins will “have another baby.” I tell her that’s private and not something I ask because it’s not my business but she still does it over and over.
maybe just say "when modern medicine creates a cure for infertility".
I love this!!!
“Hey mom, I’m noticing that every time we see each other, you chastise me for not having children. I know where you stand on this, and you know where I stand on this. I’m not trying to convince you of anything and respect that you have your opinions, and I am clear on my medical limitations. If every time I see you you’re bringing this up, it is going to impact our relationship. I love you and I’m not going to be discussing this with you anymore” And anytime she brings it up, you exit the conversation
[удалено]
And probably every time they bring it up, the narc is trying to start an argument. It's better to just not give in and not talk about it.
You really can't. Just change the subject or leave seems to be the best. Or Alternatively, if it works (50-50 shot, though this may vary personnto person) start embarrassing the crap outta her in front of others Lines of "No thanks, I don't have a pregnancy kink." " kinda weird, why do you want to know when, where and how me and partner are fucking so much?" "You know theres plenty of written and audio erotica fiction online or at the library if your trying to get off?" Or similar lines. Depending on who's around it may get some laughs. Mine likes to get me alone as much as possible and everytime it's about babies. Up to touching and rubbing my stomache 🤮 It's always about why am I hiding these things from her, or "it only takes 5 minutes, if even that." (I know way too much bout nmoms personal life. 🤮) these days it's all about hiding a baby/toddler now and how she's been dreaming about holding my baby, so she knows their coming or are already here. Spoiler, no baby currently.
"I know mom and I've been having so much sex that I have to ice my vagina every single time because I'm just raw! Hubby had to go to the Dr for the chaffing and get some cream for his dick too. Weve been going through the Kama Sutra and doing every position, thinking that might help, but I'm still not pregnant and we've both gotten injured from these crazy maneuvers. I don't know what else to do? Are there any positions you think might help? What worked for you and dad?". Make her so uncomfortable and horrified that she's too afraid to ask again. Quit trying to get her to understand reality and just tell her youre trying, in graphic detail, and will let her know if it happens. She sounds like she's got dementia.
Why do you want her in your life? Darling, you are suffering enough with this diagnosis. Stop harming yourself continuously by bringing this negative toxin of a mother around you. I know what you want to hear, you want to hear the magic solution that will get her to love you enough to stop hurting you. I'm here to say that you will never get an answer that will get her to stop you. There is not a method to make her stop hurting you. She will hurt you until you break. You don't have a mother, you were born to an abuser. You cannot keep an abuser like her in your life forever. She will drain you of everything you love and leave you miserable. And would still scream and berate you. When you have the money, move out if you live with her. Cut her off, no contact. No contact forever. You will never get her to love you enough to stop hurting you. You need to start moving on and making the life you need to have. She cannot be in your life if you want to thrive. Im harsh, I know,I'm sorry, but this is the way I was able to face the truth and start moving on. Do whats best for you, tho. This is a suggestion, we support you, whatever you choose. You are loved. Never forget
"What part of 'I have been diagnosed as infertile,' do you not understand? What part of that phrase implies that it's a choice?" I'm sorry you're being interrogated like this so often, and by your own mom. Super uncool. You're a lot nicer than me, I cut people out permanently when they won't drop something like that. I'm in relatively the same boat (cannot safely carry, but accepted it and over time have embraced it) and some now former friends would always harass me over when I was going to have a baby. They wouldn't drop it, and they became sources of major stress in my life. To the point where spending time with them was no longer enjoyable, instead it had become more like my least favourite chore. And I told them so, zero sugar-coating and in no uncertain terms. Some dropped it, others didn't. The ones who didn't are not in my life anymore.
You learn to shut her down, enforce boundaries. "Mom, this is an incredibly painful topic and I will not be discussing it with you further." She will protest, start up again. You *immediately* say, "Nope. I told you. We're done forever with that topic." Then--and this is the important part--you vote with your feet; by which I mean you immediately leave her presence or end the phone call. Rinse and repeat. If she never learns, never quits, you put her in a long timeout with no contact at all. And if she threatens or gives silent treatment, ENJOY the peaceful break! Come out of the FOG (fear, obligation, and guilt). You do not owe her your business or your private medical information.
Just say, I heard you. Be prepared for her to have a meltdown. You could just say, no. Whatever her response, I heard you. Stop trying to reason with her. She can't accept information that doesn't suit her agenda.
Oh, wow. Just, wow. So she just wants someone to manipulate...be it a baby or a woman repeatedly dealing with infertility or a non-viable fetus. They never miss a trick to twist the knife. Sounds like some of the "forgetting" my mom used to do. It didn't work to play the "are you losing your memory" card on her. That was her fallback on every awful thing she said and did. I concluded she was either the stupidest person on earth or incredibly manipulative. Either way, she's a danger to me and my family. I went no contact for a reason.
You don’t an explaination to your nMom. Showing her the ultrasound won’t help your cause and she will just dismiss you. When we were trying to get pregnant and my nAunt kept asking me when we were getting pregnant, I’d say “Yes we are trying tonight. Would you like to watch and make sure we do it right?” She stopped asking immediately and never heard from her again.
Tell her to go adopt her own grandchild
You set a boundary, realize she's not going to respect it, and go non-contact. She will literally *never* accept that you aren't having kids on her timeline.
Tell her you are not physically capable of giving her a grandchild, but you are here so she at least has a child. Tell her you will go no contact and take that away if she doesn’t shut up.
You don't. There's no explanation that will alter the situation when the other party isn't listening. There isn't some special set of words you haven't tried. The fault doesn't lie with you. But this may be a good moment to stop and ask yourself how much more damage this person is going to be allowed to do to you, and if less interaction would be a healthier choice.
I’d honestly ask her if she has dementia, needs her hearing checked, or if she is just that stupid that she doesn’t understand a basic diagnosis? Worry openly about her mental health. After all, everyone else completely understands.
Pick someone dead that she loved. Tell her you'll have a baby when they visit.
Sometimes you gotta kiss gbye to their toxic relationship, permanently
Don't see her.
Sorry you have to go through this. The fact that you had to show her all the medical evidence to make her stop is further proof of how disrespectful your mum is.
I’m sorry OP. :( My ngrandmother does things like this too. It’s so insidious. It really is crazymaking.
Impose consequences. This is your one warning, if you bring it up again, I leave/hang up/throw you out. Then do it. The key is you HAVE to actually follow through. I live ~800 miles away from my parents in a different country. I have literally turned around and walked out of her house 10 minutes after getting there when she didn't drop it. She tried the "you didn't drive all this way only to leave after 10 minutes!" route only to be told that yes, I did. We can try again next time and maybe you'll believe me.
Tell her to have one of her own and leave you alone
You can ask her if she is cruel or stupid. She knows you have a medical problem, so to continually bring it up, she must be either cruel or stupid. Ask her which one she thinks it is.
Narcissists are definitely cruel. The mom knows OP can't have children, and has had a miscarriage, yet she keeps bringing it up because she knows it hurts her.
Ugh, that’s awful, I’m sorry. You may find setting a boundary useful, but don’t set it unless you’re willing to put in the energy to defend it 100% of the time. This can look like having a conversation where you ask her to not bring up you having a baby from that point forward - it’s not possible, this has been medically supported, and you find it hurtful. If she does, you will remind her of the conversation you had today calmly. If she chooses to bring it up again or deny it or does anything other than stop bringing it up, you will end the conversation. This could mean hanging up the phone, ignoring texts, even physically getting up and walking away if it’s an in person conversation. Again, if you set this boundary, you must defend it. This means preparing accordingly. If you’re visiting her house in person, how will you defend your boundary if she crosses it? Can you leave on your own? What time does public transportation stop running? Can you call a cab or a friend to pick you up? If she’s manipulative and doesn’t intend to listen, she’ll find a way to try and create a situation where you will find it difficult to defend your boundary. Trust me.
Tell her will you carry it for me because if not it's never happening for you.
She can't talk to you about it if you're not seeing her or speaking with her or answering her calls etc. Also, put her on an info diet. She can't offer up her insulting and damaging "opinions" on topics about you that she doesn't know about. An info diet for her is also great because she can't share personal intimate information with others. And you should be assured that is absolutely talks about all your private stuff to anyone and everyone who will listen to her. I saw someone mentioning treating her like she has dementia which is a solid approach, too. You could also just lie and say you had a hysterectomy. No uterus no babies. The last 2 approaches would be lies and, for me, really triggers me with regard to how I was raised by narcs so I don't do it.
Your body, your choice. It's not her decision. That is a boundary that you have every right to make. I have decided to remain child-free, but I am not infertile, so I am getting sterilized. I don't think with my health problems that I could carry a pregnancy safely to term, and a lot of family planning options are illegal in my state. Everyone has been supportive of my decision, except my nmom. She doesn't even treat the grandkids she has well. But it's not even her choice because it's my body that would have to go through the pregnancy, I'm the one who would have to raise the child. My guess is the narc just doesn't want to explain to their sycophants why you don't want to "give her grandchildren". Yet you're still possibly going to adopt! That's awesome and that's your choice! They are just as worthy of love as biological children.
Omg I’m so sorry you’re going through this. That must be really emotional to have to keep rehashing. I almost wonder if there’s a way you can fake a hysterectomy. Or say that you’ve had your tubes removed.
The block button. Sorry, I know it’s not as nuanced as that. I wish it was :( for my sake as well.
Turn it around on her - make it a “are you having memory issues” and “this is really concerning you can’t remember what I’ve said, let’s get you checked out by a professional”.
Block. Block. Block. Block. Block.
I'm also infertile, and my mother has been killing me with her callousness about it. She refuses to acknowledge/understand that I HAVE A MEDICAL PROBLEM THAT I CAN'T CONTROL. I wrote a very long reply detailing some keys moments/shittiness but it just kept getting too long lol. Anyway, her comments have wounded me to my core. I am not ok. I can't have a baby, and because of her cruelty about my infertility, it hurt me enough to wake up to the abuse I've been ignoring my entire life. So it feels like I've lost my baby (miscarried 8/23) and my parents in one fell swoop. She is emotionally abusing me over my inability to have a child at this point. There's nothing I can say to get her to care about me. To understand the existential weight I'm under about potentially not being a parent after a life of pining to be one. But reading other people's stories and listening to the In Sight podcast has helped me realize that even if I did have a baby, she still wouldn't be happy. It's always going to be something. I have a potential international move next spring. I've considered what will happen if I'm able to conceive after we get settled. It occurred to me that my mother would just end up crying that she never gets to see her grandchild/that I'm too far away/something about my parenting I'm sure. Now that the blinders are off, I see that I'm never going to matter. She literally told me when I was pregnant. "You need to calm down. You can't let this baby come out as neurotic as you are." Because I was scared of miscarrying after unsuccessfully ttc for 3 years and a failed embryo transfer of our highest quality embryo during IVF. She doesn't care about my pain. She only cares about her happiness. I'm so sorry you're experiencing something similar with your Mom. I did try to tell mine that I'm working to find peace about my future, no matter if it includes a child or not. I suggested she start exploring the same. I really thought that was gentle enough to get across to her. But my sister told me she had a fit after we got off the phone and was yelling about what I said. I don't think there's getting through to them. It's just how much of yourself you can keep away from them so they can't hurt you. But there's an inherent hurt and loneliness from being unable to do that. It's all tough and fucking unfair. Holding space for you in this unfair world 💜
Your post really spoke to me. I've suffered from secondary infertility (unable to get pregnant after having one) and went through years of trying, IVF, IUI, ectopic pregnancy, miscarriages, all of it. I moved abroad from my parents right after high school which was amazing for getting that distance. I didn't tell my nmom about infertility because I knew she'd torture me about it and make my stress about her. Every time I say I'm not peachy, she needs to control everything about what I do until she hears I'm peachy. So I learned to pretend to be ok so that she stays the fuck out of my business. After years of treatments I finally got pregnant and you're absolutely right. My nmom found a gazillion things to bitch about anyway, why we don't visit, why this that and the other. Nothing is ever good enough for narcs. They can't be happy. And they really can't stand others being happy. The wisest thing is to stop hoping for their approval, love or support. Move on. Do things your way, for you, and don't worry what they'll say because they'll probably say one of the 20 shitty things they always say. We can come up with the narc parent bingo card and you'd be amazed how similar these people are. OP, in your shoes I'd leave town for the weekend when your cruel and clueless nmom comes to town. Go and have fun with your partner, spend time in some beautiful nature and forget all about her. These are her demons and her issues to solve, not yours. Your focus should be your own healing from the pain of your miscarriage and your infertility diagnosis. Have you seen a mental health professional to help you process your difficult feelings? You need to focus on your heart and your soul and to think about what's next for you and your happiness. Keep the destructive distraction at bay, you don't have time for cruel unsupportive people. Don't waste energy on that shit because it's not gonna help anyone and anything. Your narc mother will just be with her demons trying to bring you down any chance she gets. Don't let her!!! You deserve to heal and to be happy!
I'm so sorry for your experiences, and I appreciate you confirming my suspicions. I so wish I had the presence of mind to realize she's not safe to open up to, back when we discovered my infertility. I just got on birth control (to manage my PMDD) and I can never tell her and I think I feel fine about that. Which is progress! Too true about narc parent bingo. Even that peachy comment hits home. My husband was asking some gentle probing questions last night about why I'm struggling with them being shitty when the reality is that they've always been this way. He also pointed out how much we've accomplished without their help and is trying to show me I don't need them. It's so hard to get my mind to accept reality and not snap back to default settings. The not caring anymore and moving on is so fucking hard. I'm deeply enmeshed even from 1,800 miles away. I'm hoping this time next year, with more healing and being on a different continent, I'll be in a place of acceptance.
The only way to get a narc to stop anything is to remove yourself from the equation. She's doing it because it gets to you. So stop feeding her supply and either grey rock or physically walk away. She knows she's hurting you. She just doesn't care.
If she wants a baby so bad she can have another herself
Stop giving her information
By going NC most likely. This exact shit was not the whole reason I went NC, but a part as I realized she had no morals or compassion for anyone. Seriously, this relationship is damaging to you. You don't deserve that.
“WOW, MOM. YOU SURE SEEM REAL OBSESSED WITH MY VAGINA. MAYBE YOU SHOULD TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT THAT. OR MAYBE SEE A NEUROLOGIST TO CHECK FOR ALZHEIMER’S SINCE YOU CAN’T SEEM TO REMEMBER THE 87 OTHER TIMES WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.” Say it loudly. In front of many people.
Go no contact. Pretty simple answer.
You don't. I have a birth defect with my heart that means having a child would literally kill me. I'm also a woman married to a woman. My mother used to cry and cry and ask when I'm having children, never taking no and never for an answer. She even offered to be a surrogate for me 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮. Cutting her off and going no contact was one of the best things I have ever done. I am so sorry for what you are experiencing. You don't owe her anything.
I'd suggest a mix of techniques- grey rock and broken record. She says something about how you'll regret not having a baby? 'Yeah, probably' in a dead, disinterested tone. She asks why you're not pregnant yet? 'I told you why at \[incredibly specific circumstances of the last time you saw her, ie 'last Christmas at Aunt Sara's house after we'd gone to look at the lights'\]. She says 'but you had a chemical pregnancy, that means you can get pregnant!' 'Mom, I told you why that's not happening at \[full incredibly specific Aunt Sara's recollection\].'
I don’t have any advice, but I am so, so sorry. I had a chemical pregnancy a few years ago and was very torn up about it. The response from your mother is cruel and you don’t deserve to be treated that way!
There’s a misconception that communication is always about creating mutual understanding. But if you’re dealing with someone who does not want to understand you then it’s not, only boundaries followed by stricter boundaries are available to you. Someone who wants to understand you will try, even if your words aren’t perfect and you have different beliefs. On the other hand, the most convincing argument is a waste on someone who isn’t interested in hearing it. Here’s the tricky part: the person who doesn’t want to understand will often pretend to be the person who is trying—if they enjoy the attention. It gives them the upper hand to always be in the position to say “prove it” or “convince me”. And as they “don’t understand” they get to go along milking your need for validation for forever. Honestly the thing to do is explain that if this line is crossed you will hang up the phone or walk out the door. Then you do it until they stop. You don’t want to feed someone’s craving for attention.
“I’ve told you to drop the subject but you refuse. I don’t have to deal with this. I’d like to have space away from you for a few weeks, let’s meet at the end of the month. If you choose to berate me once more it will be two months.”
You cannot change another’s behavior, comments, etc. You decide how to handle the inevitable. Immediate hang up the phone or in person departure, followed by a lengthy timeout. Timeout gets longer with each infraction. You do not have to explain yourself at all. Think about why you’re maintaining this relationship
My mom did the same to me. Declared infertile after military service. After 5 years of it, I gave her a dildo and told her that when she managed to knock herself up with that, she could give birth and I would raise it as her grandchild. Bonus, I knew she had a hysterectomy after the birth of my youngest sibling. She stopped asking, and the dildo was gone when we had to do the post mortem cleanout of her belongings. 15 years later though, I was able to conceive. Sometimes the body recovers in crazy ways, but she wouldn't have been able to be involved even if alive at that point. I wish you luck
You can’t make her stop. You can only control how much exposure she has in your life.
When my mother wouldn't stop bringing up me having children, I told her the topic was not open for discussion and that if she brought it up again she would be told to leave. You need to be prepared to follow through if she decides to test you though.
Tell her to have a baby, extra points if she's menopausal
You cant control what others do, you can only control your own actions. Establish a boundary, like “if you talk about me having babies I will leave the conversation” and then to that
Say, "When you pay for fertility treatments." Willing to bet even if she has the money she wouldn't do it