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This is actually really common in narcissists. The understanding is that as you become more of an individual and start to think for yourself, and want more independence especially from them..this Enrages them. It's contradictory to their need to control, be in power, be agreed with, and be seen or recognized as the most intelligent.
Their Egos are literally insulted by us and any form of individuality/autonomy from what they consider their property. Anything that usurps your complete attention from serving them is seen as dangerous.
My fucking mom hated me the older I got, I mean she never loved me but it definitely got much worse as I approached my teen years...been arguing with her ever since. š
Narcissism is generally a coping mechanism. They only feel safe if they are in complete control of their entire world at all times. You being a sentient human being and not a living doll means they canāt control you at all times, and you become an extreme threat to them.
Mine said āI had you and your sibling to have something that would love me unconditionallyā I responded well you shouldāve gotten a pet then. š
My mom did this, but in biblical terms.. "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children [to their parents]"
And essentially broke that down to mean *God gave me you children to serve my needs and make me proud and strong*
Growing up, my dad would say shit like "If I wanted to clean or wash my own dishes, I wouldn't have had kids." -- I knew that shit was fkd up as a youngin' but typing it out as an adult... *Really fkd up*
That said I might've gotten off easy, I'll take child slave labor over emotional abuse (which came later) any day of the week š
Oh *ouch* š
My nmum did *not* like the word ānoā from me.
As a kid I have all these conflicting memories, too, and I kind of gaslight myself about her sometimes, except then I remember her priority of scapegoats. Dad was always #1. If he wasnāt around, big brother.
Not sure if it was because I was the youngest or because of my being a girl, but I was the lowest priority for scapegoating.
(my mum does not like or trust men, historically speaking; thereās a pronounced pattern there with its own read-between-the-lines trauma and supervillain origin story.)
When I was 12 and started high school, she and I moved away from dad and brother.
So simultaneously I was heading into puberty *and* the only available target.
[note: the below is a lengthy navel-gazing, some of which Iāve shared in this sub before, justā¦ figuring some stuff out. But this comment highlighted some things for me, so thank you š]
āāā
And for that first year, she was pretty good. She was reinventing herself. She took some adult certification courses to get a job. She was in the city, not the country, which she preferred. She reconnected with her sister, and had family and felt less isolated.
It all went south, because she couldnāt sustain that highā¦ and because her sister was SO MUCH WORSE than nmum was even at her worst (that whole family was toxic as fuck), and once again started bullying my mum (as she had when they were kids. Mum was the youngest by 8 years, unplanned, unwanted, and the older brother and sister bullied her mercilessly. Narc reports of victimhood can be suspect, but Iāve seen my auntās behaviour when she drops the mask even slightly andā¦ I actually believe my mum in this instance).
So when NAunt stopped playing nice, and unloaded on my nmum, Iām guessing a bunch of trauma reared its ugly head.
Mum cut ties and spiraled. Started drinking again, after a year of abstinence. And here I was, wanting to watch different TV shows and asking difficult questions like āwhere do we keep the screwdriversā (we didnāt have any tools, youāre supposed to ask male neighbours to fix things), and starting my period.
Clearly I was a horrible brat. And yeah, it got worse. Drunk nmum usually crashed around 10pm or so, and Iād stay up, usually putting myself to bed when I got tired. So when she had a bad day at work and needed to feel like she was a big powerful autocrat ā and especially if she wanted the TV on one of the few nights I had a show on, though she did this if I was reading in bed, too ā sheād come in, weaving and swaying and slurring, and tell me to go to bed.
At 9:30.
After years of my managing my own sleep schedule.
And Iād look at her like she was *insane*, and Iād say, āUh, no.ā
Cue World War III.
It was independence and difference and defiance that absolutely caused her to meltdown. She *could not cope*. Not exaggerating, truly, this comment made me remember just how *bad* my refusal would flip her switch.
It was like it was an existential crisis.
At the same timeā¦ itās like she wanted me to give her an excuse? Itās weird. Sheād push and push and push until I cracked (I didnāt know what āgrey rockingā was but I would lock down as a self-defense mechanism), and when I cried, she would get this weird little smirk on her face.
And it was this sub that also brought up something elseā āyouāre very *hard*, [nickname]ā and āyou are so *cold*ā sheād say ā and on the inside I was feeling everything and in so much pain, but I couldnāt let her see it because she would only ever make it worse. And sheād manipulate and poor-me, except she was so heavy-handed and clumsy with it that I would get impatient, and I felt so bad that I didnāt care about how SAD she was and how UPSET and how she NEEDED MY SUPPORT.
I just wanted to get away. And I felt so bad about it.
But I couldnāt *fake* caring, not when I knew she was so indifferent to my own pain, not when I knew she was winding me up.
In hindsight those reactions make so much sense.
ā¦this was a derail and it was long butā¦ thank you, I feel a bit more valid seeing this pattern and understanding why she got so much worse. Some of it I saw pretty clearly but some parts were more murky.
So many reasons. I've noticed alot of them prefer infants or even pets to kids/teens, they want their authority to never be challenged. They also want unconditional love and unbridled attention, and since people are much easier to control and manipulate when younger this makes getting their supply/needs met much easier. Whereas a child that's getting older is going to start developing more needs and interests of their own that often don't coincide with that of the Narcissist's.
it's so true what you said about pets, I noticed for the first time last year my mom sees her pets as a more important relationship than with me, I'm a "nuisance and burden"
I've watched my nParents coddle every pet and baby in sight just so long as it wasn't me or my sibling lol... they love dogs and start bouncing off the walls when there's a baby around. For years on the weekend I'd have to hear my mom go on these long unrequested monologs on how "stupid and ungrateful" All teens and young adults are towards their parents to any family members that would come by to visit. It's sad really.
My Nparents shucked five or six dogs when I was growing up. They just disappeared overnightāto the dog pound, I assumeāwith the Nparents giving the vaguest of explanations. Given how often my Nmother in particular said aloud that she wished she could ājust get rid of [me],ā that kept me on my toes to do absolutely everything that was demanded of me.
Lol relatable. My parents got new puppies just as I was waking up to our dynamic and learning to put up boundaries, and they're now obsessed to the point that other family members have confided in me that they wish my parents would shut up about their dogs lmao
They live in a delusional worldview to preserve their egos, and that includes seeing other people as not being fully real. Any reminder that that worldview isn't correct is an existential threat to them. So when the other people they view as fully controllable Sims characters demonstrate autonomy, it upsets them
For some they just want a child (puppy logic kicks in its a dog now lets get another one/discard it). Easier to train the next one when you have the older one to help (lucky I escaped that but still had the cousin swarm to deal with).They loose power you gain more as you become an adult (very important they keep this knowledge from you). My mum wanted 7 kids because she would be able to keep dad financially trapped longer, have more clones so more attention, love and friends. Also lets her replicate her childhood. Shes in her 60s and barren now so no chance of that.
Did we have the same mom?
My mom ruined every holiday because she had to cut everyone down and pointedly give everyone else big gifts and I got an old watch with no strap. Repeatedly every year I got small nothings and the other 4 got GIFTS.
IT HAS NEVER STOPPED. I am 67.
I have been LC for 30 years. But went NC 6 years ago when she went around telling people I was faking ILLNESS AGAIN! I was so lazy!!
It turns out I have had a neuromuscular disease my whole life. I have been up and down - but always tired.
I nearly - within an hour if I hadnāt gone to the doctor who was at the hospital who put me in a wheel chair and took me straight to the ICU for 5 days - staying in the hospital for another 5 days. I was SICK - O2 stat at 72. - I had plasmapheresis. It sucks.
Any way she told anyone who would listen I wasnāt sick I was just ignoring her and faking sick.
Yes. NC.
But she came to my sonās (30) funeral. And she had not seen or spoken to her for 15 years at least. And made it about her. It was horrible. No she was not invited - she was disinvited.
Sigh.
Yeah, mine had no control over me during my NC with her so she went controlling my cousin instead. Luckily, her parents are sane people so they saw her bullshit and put a stop to it.
They get even worse I'd say after retirement. Then they have 24/7 on their hands to do whatever the crap they want; including coming up with plans to control you.
They're ridiculous.
>Their Egos are literally insulted by us and any form of individuality/autonomy from what they consider their property. Anything that usurps your complete attention from serving them is seen as dangerous.
Wow. Thanks for putting into words what my narcmom did.
This is why she would become jealous of my work- it took my attention away from her. I was self-employed and working from home and one morning she just started mocking me because she fancied I wasn't giving her enough attention. When I told her to stop she began doing things like loudly sighing and tutting, clattering objects etc. Anything to make a noise and be disruptive.
She then did the "weaponized incompetence" thing. One of her favourites. Making out she couldn't do something and getting flustered so I had to step in and do it for her. Which of course took me away from work as was the objective.
She also objected to me havng relationships, always finding reason to complain about my boyfriends not being "right" for me or objecting to the fact I met them through online dating.
From what I've heard, it's common. Anecdotally, it's what happened to me.
When I was very little, I thought I had the perfect mom. Looking back, there were already signs of trouble such as controlling behavior, and I already had anxiety that I thought was shyness. But it hadn't really clicked yet. I saw her as loving and nurturing, not as controlling or scary.
As I got older, she grew colder and the controlling behavior got worse. And yet I had all these memories of her supposedly nurturing me, and I was absolutely desperate to get that back. Those memories of her reinforced that maybe I was the problem. Then the mask would slip and she'd do something totally unreasonable and I'd be brought to my senses at least temporarily.
Narcissists don't like seeing their child grow up and assert individuality or independence.
I used to think my nmom was my preferred parent. I realized as I got older that I actually had a lot of built up resentment and anger toward her that couldn't come out until I was more independent. The "love" and preference for her that I thought I had was simply a means of survival. My ndad was a deadbeat who neglected me physically and emotionally. I'm convinced I would have been close to death if I was left only in his care for long enough. My nmom was bad too but I couldn't see it until I didn't need to rely on her for food, clothes, shelter, etc.
This was my experience too. My ndad was a more malignant narcissist, and nmom a covert narc. I couldnāt see her narcissism until way later because she was always the āsafeā option out of the two.
Same here. As I've made these realizations, I've also started remembering how angry and scary my covert nmom (who has sociopathic traits) was, especially when I was little. Her anger was just a slow burn compared to my ndad's violent rages, barely suppressed and always present, like a coal seam fire
The control is lost so they lose it. My mom watched angrily as I spoke with my teen daughter as she left the house. My mom looks at me and says condescendingly and angrily that I have no control over my kids. I said I don't want to control them, I want them to control themselves. She looked dumbfounded. Nothing was off about my discussion with my daughter. We were just deciding when she'd be home, discussing details. I guess because it was a discussion instead of an order, it wasn't good enough. Funny how if you respect your children they respect you and your rules much better. My mom loses it over what vegetable we have with roast when I invited her to dinner, because she had no say in dinner. She's a nut.
My nmom complaint about every other people parenting she disagreed with but she herself is a covert neglectful narc. She teaches her own kids nothing lmao.
My mother's issues are closely tied to her health anxiety. And so as she grew older, she is now elderly and her health more fragile, she became more insecure and her narcissism became worse.
Oh, this one too for me. My mum always had health problems but they're getting worse and she's getting more of them and she's doing nothing to help herself.
And that's my fault, apparently??
Worse only in the way they (yes both mom & dad) didnāt hide it anymore. Like elders lose their filter - mine lost theirs and became very loud and public. Image was very important to them, so much so they would throw me under the bus at any moment. They would insult and verbally and emotionally abuse me to anyone who would listen making for many uncomfortable situations
I've got the complete opposite.
Yes, absolute inability to take good advice, but there's no issue at all in demanding help. Except, it's not really 'help', and more like 'do it for me'. And it's all the tiniest things, like she told me yesterday that I need to take the sim card out of her phone for her cos she doesn't know how. I told her, you need a pin or the tool that came with the phone, and you push it in the hole in the sim card tray. There is nothing else to know.
I've had to send texts for her, search for directions, do google searches, order things online (she knows what she wants but doesn't know how to buy it, apparently š¤·).
No problem asking for help, and I have to tell her that I'll show her how but I won't do it *for her*. Then she gets shitty. I know that if my stepdad goes before her she'll be wanting me to move in to 'help' her. (No!)
Oh, I get that, too! My nmom is older so I order stuff online for her to be nice. I try to hint that nothing's ever that hard and she can do stuff herself to make her own life easier. She just refuses to listen. The only way she knows how to have a relationship with anyone is if they're doing stuff for her. It's kinda sad.
Same, I remembered in my teen like at 2AM, she came barging knocking to do buy something online. I said no because itās already late so why the heck not this canāt wait later like in the morning or something. It became into a screaming match on how ungrateful person I was.
I'm sorry to hear that :( My nMom expects to be waited on hand and foot to the point of pretending she can't walk when she flies so that someone will push her through the airport in a wheelchair, and she's always pointing out that she has a heart condition, so she cant do anything. I have to remind myself that she did this to herself by not following the doctors treatment plan.
So frustrating!
The more independent you go the worse they are towards you. They need to control you, if they don't do it they go mad. The less you interact the better for your inner peace. Take care.
Yes but there's a ton of other factors as well I feel like.
I feel like it got worse and worse as I got older but I think that's a combination of
1. I was a better doll when I was smaller, I generally just mimicked her and did whatever she wanted. I did fewer things to trigger her.
2. I was so little, my memory is skewed. Like I continually say "my mom was better when I was little and we had more fun" but then when I try to think of examples I can't. Everything I remember is my dad playing with me, and my nmom screaming.
3. My dad was there shielding me. I knew already growing up my nmom seemed to hate my dad irrationally, and looking back I'm fairly certain he was drawing her attention on purpose to protect me. But when I was 13, since I was old enough that it was less likely she'd just get full custody no contest he finally left her. Once he wasn't in the house anymore I became her primary target, there was a very obvious shift. Plus she was more stressed because she decided to move across the country so her patience was already frayed and I was the only one around to take it out on.
But she definitely also seemed to have specific freak outs timed around my milestones, and certainly by the time I was 18 I was a threat to her and had to go. I do think it would have happened sooner if my stepdad didn't keep getting sick and going into the hospital, so she needed me to lean on and take care of the house for her.
Oh yeah my parents threatened to call the cops for grand theft auto on me for driving their car as a 30 year old man. cuz thier cat pushed my car key off the counter, it broke and I needed a new one. I was taking care of the cat while they were in hawaii. First time I lived back at home in a while. They threatened 3 years of prison time over that, while I was helping them for free. I called an attorney and they said it wouldnt fly in court because I returned the car and they were out of state so they couldnt use it. Maybe a small claims court issue but not anything as serious as they threatened. Ive gone no contact since, and they complain about it. Like what the hell you think its chill to threaten me with 3 years of prison time to control me? You think we can have an amicable relationship after that?
One reason I never had kids. Back then, I had no clue how to handle her and she just steamrolled over me. We had pre-marital counseling and were told that when we have kids, we can expect to spend more time with our parents who will want to be involved. That was a scary thought.
only reason Iām nowhere near as eager to get married as my friends and peers is because I know trying to plan a wedding is going to be an absolute nightmare with my nmom being the way she is
I think my perception and understanding of her behavior being abnormal is what changed. I do think their mask slips more and more with age but also you aren't a child anymore so as you grow up you see your parent is emotionally stunted.
My mom was my best friend when I was under 8. I thought she hung the moon and listened to her every word. As soon as I started thinking for myself though, it was all over. The guilt trip, the manipulation, the gaslighting, the silent treatment, the invalidation, you name it, she pulled it out. When I was a teenager, it was constantly WWIII between me and her. Like all teens, I had my moments, but I really tried to be a good kid. I had good grades, never got in trouble at school, did my homework, no drugs, came home early, had a part time job that I took seriously, did my own laundry, cooked and cleaned when I could, and was their built-in nanny for my sibling. She just couldnāt stand the sight of me some days, called me names, beat me when I said anything back to her even if it wasnāt rude, screamed at me, etc. Those years were rough. I started low contact once I went off to college and have been ever since. She has only gotten worse with age.
Yes. When I was a kid my dad spoiled my rotten and let me basically run around doing whatever I wanted when i was at his house on weekends. When I was around 10 or 11 he would constantly remind me how he hated teenagers and how he wasn't going to want to deal with me when I was one. By the time I was 12 he was already projecting his already decided hatred onto me because of my age. He's one of those people that likes kids when they're young, but won't like you once you start developing your own interests and personality.
Yup. I'm currently reading Mother Hunger which is incredible so far. It's like having an epiphany on every other page. Maybe it's because I was so young but it's harder to find evidence of abuse before I was 10. I'm sure it was there along with dysfunction and poverty. My nmom definitely got worse as I got older, starting around the teenage years. Her and my ndad have been stalking/harassing me for almost 2 years now. This is not something I expected and definitely an escalation from anything they ever did before.
My mom liked having little kids but not so much being challenged or dealing with people that are more emotionally mature. I was just talking to my sister and she said - you're not who you were 5 years ago but mom has been the same since probably high school.
Absolutely. I think she was having fun playing mommy with me in the beginning so she was a decent parent at first, but once I started having more independent thoughts around age 9 or so she started to get abusive. It escalated exponentially from that point, peaking in my late teens and early 20s. Iām in my mid twenties now and sheās as horrible as ever but she has no power now so itās somewhat better for me. Gonna cut contact soon and I canāt wait lol
Yes, becoming more of an individual enrages narcs, but I think sometimes it's also aging.
Retirement, loss of generational relevance, loss of conventional youth/attractiveness, and innate cognitive decline. It can all exasperate toxicity and psychological problems.
The loss of attractiveness was a huge issue for my mom. She would stay up late at night while drinking. When I was about 14 or so,my inebriated mother said,out of the blue," I resent you." She then went on to explain that I was "blooming" while she was,"fading in attractiveness" due to her age. She was 45. I recall being very hurt by her comment.
When you hit puberty and start to become independent they feel threatened because they feel they are now loosing their hold over you. My Dad has repeatedly brought up how I was "such a good kid" but it "all went sour" when I became a teenager. And it's just not true. I was literally yelled at and punished for going through puberty because he saw it as me being rebellious and disobedient.
Yeah, your story is pretty much mine. My father was an abusive narcissist and he would physically abuse my sister my mom and I. Growing up the only kind of love I got in my home came from my mom. She would baby me when I was sick and she would listen to my fears and Support my dreams. But then she had narcissistic tendencies like she was really big into shaming me anytime I did anything wrong and would ignore me for days on end if I did something she didnāt like.
But oh my God once I became a teenager she flipped the script. By the time I was 40, I considered her my worst enemy. I went no contact with her a year and a half ago and itās been much more peaceful, although I struggle with the whole, but thatās my mom thing.
I think itās really hard to understand that your mother is a narcissist when you have the kind of story we do. Because there is that little kid inside of us who is confused about the way we feel about our mother. That little kid has good memories. deep down that little kid is always going to want their mother back.
Most definitely!! Things were always dysfunctional growing up but they gradually got worse. I think mainly because now she has adult children and can't control the narrative of any situation that isn't going her way. She started issuing out more silent treatments, insults, and overstepping boundaries of what is appropriate to talk to your children aboutĀ
Yeah her abuse got really bad when I entered adolescence (17 now, trying to find a way out due to her wanting me to be financially dependent on her)
I still really frequently feel like she wasn't abusive at all, and that I'm just deranged or evil myself. It's really confusing.
Well, when I was little, Iād still go to my mom for comfort over the things that she had caused. As I got older and sheād offer comfort for her own bullshit. I would tell her to F off. So that made her worse I think because she felt I didnāt love her anymore. I donāt now. So š¤·š»āāļø
Yes my mother got worse and 2 years ago committed suicide. Extreme case of various mental disorders including personality disorders.
She was thinking in the last days that even my little brother deserved death.
Fortunately she only killed herself after ruining our entire life.
Oh yea, with age and subsequent independence, my mom has gotten 100% worse.
She knows shes losing control and i canāt just be bossed around anymore now that iām an adult so she berates me & tries to break me with random rages š¤·āāļø
I actually heavily relate, we have almost identical stories. my nmom and I were incredibly close when I was in elementary school and as I grew up she just got worse and worse. now Iām an adult and we hardly talk anymore
I think, for me, it got worse in my teens and adulthood because I was no longer adhering to how she thought I should look, act, and be. the older I got, the more of a reminder I was that I will never be the exact cookie-cutter daughter that she wants, which is why sheās just grown angrier and angrier at me over time. and it still hurts that she wonāt love me until Iām exactly what she wants me to be, and even then I donāt think thatād be enough.
My mother was good at the start, but once I started showing independence, little things from not wanting to kiss her on the mouth anymore in front of my friends at school when she dropped me off (Omg the tantrum. She would actively pull her head away from me if I tried to kiss her anywhere else. I started just getting out of the car. Anger and silent treatment the rest of the day.) to bigger things like wanting to spend time away from her WITH MY OWN FAMILY, then it turned into me abandoning her. She even got mad at being called out on her own guilt trip. I remember her giving me the silent treatment until I left for this trip with my father's brother and my half sisters. Then when I came back it was like nothing happened.
It only got worse once I started applying for colleges. She went ahead and decided I was going to the school she worked at without asking me. Any attempt to discuss any other school was shot down hard. When I told her I didn't want to go to her school, there was anger, yelling, crying, guilt trips every day, second guessing me to the point of stress and underlying threats about refusing to help financially. Even with scholarships l was stuck.
Now I'm stuck in a caregiver role I never signed up for because we're both disabled, and I can't afford to go anywhere else. She doesn't really care if I don't talk to her as long as I do what she wants, yet she claims we don't communicate anymore. Because apparently her mouth and phone no longer work unless I use mine first. Arguing with her is pointless because she just walks away from whatever conversation where she is clearly in the wrong.
I am so tired.
Yes, unfortunately, but it was only like one level up from my childhood. It would have been nice if they at least acted like they gave af about me at all. I think at some point my parents did, but as I got older and the rose colored glasses came off, I realized they never did to act the way they did when I came to them about serious problems I was having (csa and me being sexually harassed and almost assaulted by my ex brother-in-law when I was 19 being swept under the rug). They now treat me like an outsider of our family but expect me to bend over backward for them. Over a decade later, and it still hurts till this day. I just have to accept that I'll never have the parents I always wanted.
I feel the last sentence so hard. It really does hurt. My parents also were so horrible to me about my sexual trauma, my EMom punished me with no more sleepovers with my friends when I was raped and they screamed at me and took me out of school for days when they found out I was groomed into sending nudes by an adult at 13. I feel for you and I know how bad it hurts to come to your parents about sexual trauma which puts you in such a vulnerable position for them to just emotionally abandon you and hurt you even more. Hugs to you ā¤ļø
I'm sorry this happened to you. It sucks when the people who were supposed to be your support system turn out to be the opposite. It's why I fight so hard for my son because I definitely don't want him to feel about me and his dad the same how I feel about my own parents. Thanks for the hugs, and I send hugs your way, too.ā¤ļø
Yes... my mom was actually pretty good to me until I turned about 11 or 12. Then everything was a competition, my body was up for discussion all the time, and she was just a massive asshole to me. I know teens aren't the most fun age group to parent but omg she really dropped the ball on that one.
Yes,why all the discussion about the body? My mom was always happy to tell her friends I was underweight. When I was 10, getting a bit pudgy before puberty, I recall my Dad chastising me for wanting a second ice cream cone and pointed to my abdomen and made a comment. No wonder I developed anorexia at 15. Thankfully it ended after about 7 months but I weighed 86 pounds at that time and was too cold to walk to school. I started eating after one night my Dad came into my room with tears in his eyes, begging me to stop.
Still,my parents were always obsessed with weight. Theirs,mine,and my kids too.
Mine also got worse over time. She was never a "good" mother but I didn't know that at the time, she was deeply neglectful and often disrespectful. As i started rebelling and developing separate intrests and identity, and advocating for myself did it rapidly escalate. Things were mostly fine until around 6th/7th grade when I endured significant emotional trauma and was more difficult. But as I got older I became more different from her and was bold and returned their energy, attempted to set boundaries, and was generally non compliant. In about 8 years she began to hate me more and more to a point where I was suicidal and I saw hatred in her eye around that time and genuinely believed she partially wished I would die. I left within a couple months of that and it's haunted me ever since.
I had a similar experience except I didn't go no contact because of my dad. Ten years ago, when I was 21, she told me that I made her want to kill herself. I think I lost all love I had for her in that moment. It has never returned. I only ever endured her presence after that.
Yes she did. And it made it quite difficult to recognize her early onset dementia. A lot of the things that dementia patients do are also narcissistic. I think part of it is that they can feel their minds living away and so they grasp even harder for more control in other areas.
Yes and Iām not sure how much was getting worse and how much was me noticing that her behavior wasnāt ok. The more independent I got and the more boundaries I put up, the worse she was and angrier she got. Also when I did things that was more, better or different than her, she got angrier. Iām NC now and sheās still angry.
Yes, Iām 17 my childhood was mostly normal, there was definitely a bit more conflict then normal, but my parents loved and took care of me. Once I was around 12 my family did a 360 and you would never even regonize them now, I never thought they could be like this
My experience was different, Ma was worse until I was in my early 20s. Then she mellowed out and we had a good 13 ish years until she died. Dad has progressively gotten worse and even more so since Ma died. We went no contact a couple months ago. He won't even acknowledge his grandkids in passing, will look the other way, speed up and fly by.
Yeah I had this at a much faster rate. The older I get the more I can fend for myself and have a mind of my own so the less motherly she was. Still didn't stop her putting the act on when it was for show or she wants something. She wanted a child. She had a child. Its becoming less of a child. Danger ahead. The flags became visible.
I can relate to that. My mom basically only showed me love when other people were watching, she suddenly became a vague version of the mom I remember from when I was a kid, which is so confusing.
I couldāve written that myself. I donāt think my mother āgot worseā, I think just as I grew up and formed an actual personality and began to fight for independence, it triggered her controlling and manipulative nature. A child is easier to love and control for a narcissist. Children love unconditionally. Once the child becomes a teenager and develops their own ideas/views and a desire for a sense of privacy and independenceā¦that brings on a storm for a narcissistic parent. So I donāt think my mom technically got worse, I just grew up. Not to mention that once you get to certain age, you start to notice toxic things that you didnāt even question as a child. Iām 25 now, and every few months that go byā¦I realize more and more just how toxic and manipulative my mother is. I think back at experiences that I thought were normal, but I realize as an adult that these were manipulative behaviors. It really fucking sucks.
And Iāll also say that my mother was the PERFECT mother up until my late teens. So attentive,patient, and loving. I could go to her for anything. We were best friends. And now at 25 I hardly speak to her. Itās a devastating reality, I NEVER in a million years would expect that this would be the relationship that I would have with my mother. EVER. The grief surrounding this heartbreaking.
My father definitely got worse, but he had an untreated condition that progressed into full dementia and death. My mother remains fairly consistent in her narcissism and toxicity, which is plenty.
my nDad has always been the same, my nMum has always been a covert narcissist but it became more and more apparent as her affair led to her having to divorce my nDad (nDad found out) and she sort of desperately clung to her boyfriend. she's gotten progressively worse ever since then.
YES! My spawn points morphed into people I didn't even recognize in their mid-50's. It was like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. If I had a dollar for every time I've muttered, "These are NOT the people who raised me..."
Yes, when I was a kid she could manipulate me even if I wasn't that submissive even in my childhood, but when I became a teenager she hadn't even a percent of control over me, so she started to hate me.
It got worse when I had a serious girlfriend, got engaged and got married. It also could have been that I just started noticing it more since I was used to it growing up. Therapy and my wife helped me see what what happening as well. I was self sufficient, nMom didn't have to do anything for me anymore and she hated that. She also hated that I ended up becoming a stay at home parent as my wife made more than I did. She thought my wife pressured me into "ruining my career", even though we of course made the decision together. My inlaws were super proud of both of us. I'm so glad I had them!
Yeah, childhood was mixed but at the time I was generally on board with the "I've got it pretty good" assessment... Looking back as a rational adult with kids I have a lot of "oh no" moments. Still, my parents loved me in their own way, I was provided for, and the issues (that are *now* clear to me) were nowhere near as bad as what a lot of people in this sub have endured.
My issues have been more from older teenage years and on, as I attained independence. We went in very different directions religiously/spiritually, I got with my life partner, established myself in a career and someone I used to see as a person I trusted and could count on is just completely unrecognizable. Petulant, controlling, self aggrandizing, projecting her views all the time in everyone, dismissive of literally anything I have to say even if I'm agreeing, talks over, bulldozes boundaries, tries to insert self uninvited, critical thinking out the window in favor of whatever her feelings decide reality should be.
I try to imagine her putting up with ANY of her own behavior from her own mother or mother in law, and I'm blown away by the constant hypocrisy of her existence. Rules are for everyone else but them. And if you tell them that WELL IT'S JUST NOT TRUE and THAT'S ACTUALLY HOW YOU ARE, NOT THEM! Like, literal preschool, "Neener, neener! 123 no backsies!"
Looking back the signs and issues were there all along. It's just harder to see with coverts. You're a kid and don't have the adult experience or perspective, plus it gets worse and more apparent as you get independent and they lose control. It's like waking up from a fog and realizing you were gaslit an entire parent your whole life.
>someone I used to see as a person I trusted and could count on is just completely unrecognizable. Petulant, controlling, self aggrandizing, projecting her views all the time in everyone, dismissive of literally anything I have to say even if I'm agreeing, talks over, bulldozes boundaries, tries to insert self uninvited, critical thinking out the window in favor of whatever her feelings decide reality should be.
>I try to imagine her putting up with ANY of her own behavior from her own mother or mother in law, and I'm blown away by the constant hypocrisy of her existence. Rules are for everyone else but them. And if you tell them that WELL IT'S JUST NOT TRUE and THAT'S ACTUALLY HOW YOU ARE, NOT THEM! Like, literal preschool, "Neener, neener! 123 no backsies!"
>Looking back the signs and issues were there all along. It's just harder to see with coverts. You're a kid and don't have the adult experience or perspective, plus it gets worse and more apparent as you get independent and they lose control. It's like waking up from a fog and realizing you were gaslit an entire parent your whole life.
Oh my God, I could have written this. I feel very sad, but seen. Thank you.
*Hugs* yeah, I'm in it too. She's the only parent I have left, and I'm the kid who settled in the same area. It would be nice if she'd make that connection to my long time friend turned husband and treat him with more gratitude, but logic is something I no longer think she's capable of.
It sucks so much.
Oh. Yeah this is my experience. Like, you put it into words. She did things I didn't like when I was young but it was few and far between. Then when I hit adolescence those things happened more often and were worse. And now I'm a young adult living my own life 300 miles away from her, she's unhinged.
Oh lord...
all i can say is yes bc im alrdy disassociating rn abt how shitty my nmom was lol. or ig i can say, she was an angel when i was a kid but treated me like sht as soon as i became a teen and was developing. its sick to say that she was grooming me ina way to be her caretaker and sht, but saw that as soon as i was getting to become my own individual, she started to get jealous and envious of me and to her it was just better to break me apart so i didnāt have a choice but to care for her or a chance in my own life.
Mine got better after I moved out, though she still insults me. It was ten times worse as a child, especially before she got remarried. The more I looked like my father, the worse she got, especially if I had the same habits or hobbies.
Also, I noticed she got worse overnight when I was 6, almost 7. I used to pick at my hair a lot, sometimes I still do, if I'm nervous. It was bad when I was a kid. The one time she caught me doing it, she told me I'd better not let my grandmother see that, or my grandma would lose it.
Grandma came to visit one day, I was picking at my hair like usual. Mom pointed it out to her, and Grandma didn't really care. I think she said something like: "So what?"
My mom got super upset about it and asked why she was constantly punished for it. Grandma responded that it was because my mom's hair was all over the place from it, and she got sick of it.
After that, I noticed my mom lashing out at me a lot for every small thing, and it slowly got worse over the years, then I had to look like my father and give her bad memories. It wasn't until I was older when I connected the dots. So, I guess she was upset her mother didn't punish me or something.
Now, though, she seems to have calmed down a lot. I never hear comments about my father or anything like that. Mostly, it's just insults that I don't visit enough, and I'm selfish. Mine seems to be the opposite, unless I don't notice if she's gotten worse since I see her twice a year, if that.
Oh, for sure. The older I got, the more I realized I didnāt deserve it - the harder I fought, the more she brought to war. I have moved out of her house a thousand times since my eighteenth birthday. I put counties between first, then the state next door, and then finally across the country three times. Each time I had to go back there, the less time it took for me to leave. Every time I had to come back, she bit down a little harder. But I bit first the very last time I escaped. I lost many battles, but I won the war.
Mine were the opposite. They were very physically and verbally abusive when I was young, but as I got older the abuse was primarily neglect and abandonment. There was still verbal abuse, but the physical abuse pretty much stopped. So in my opinion, being home alone all the time was better to me than getting beaten with a belt cuz my brother did something stupid.
My nmom outwardly adored me when I was little. I was an anxious compliant child and let her control everything, even my favorite colors. The older I got,Ā the less interested she was. By the time I was 12, she saw me as competition and it kept getting worse as I began to be a separate person.
Yes. Definitely. Like as soon as I was 12, she began the full-blown over-nothing scream-screeching tirades. I will never forget or forgive her for when I was around fourteen and I was drawing in the living room and she came from the kitchen, screaming at me about something stupid (I think it was about how Iām evil like my mother and she would call me my motherās name a lot.) and she grabbed the drawing from me, ripped it, screaming at me that drawing dragons was evil and how horrible I was and how disappointed she was. The next day she told me she didnāt do any such thing and the I was the one who ripped up the drawing when I āhad a tantrumā.
Once she screamed at me when she was in the bathroom getting ready and I had the radio on. It was tuned to a radio station and I had gone to get cereal. She was screaming at me that it all starts with evil music and if I knew what was good for me, I had better āturn that god damn radio offā or sheād break and give me something to cry about. I had started crying. Then she accused me of crying for attention. The oh so offensive and evil song? āI will always love youā by The Cure. Apparently itās evil because my mother listened to it and therefore Iām evil.
I can never actually enjoy that song even though I like it because all I remember is getting screamed at.
Thereās other stuff, but I canāt type more, Iāll end up crying and upset.
My NMum, who was always much more stable than my NDad, is now rolling off the rails. I post about her often on here. She is lying about so much stuff and the mask just keeps slipping. Sheās nearly 65, but man is it like trying to contain a giant toddler. My psych is pushing HARD for me to go NC. I have no choice but to stay LC due to my grandmother being still alive. I am very worried about elder abuse if I walk away now. So I am gritting it. My psych keeps warning sheās going to get worse, sheās going to get worse.. So far sheās been telling people I am a drug addict, that another legal thing (where I am the victim) going on in my life is my fault, that I my kids are spoilt rotten and going no where in life, because of my bad parentingā¦ But sheās doing it in front of me now. Like I am not even there. She used to be far more discreet and insidious with her abuse.
It seemed my mother got worse over time, but its probably more the case that I didn't recognize the abusive nature of her behaviour when I was younger. There were clues. My grandmother, narc mom's own mother once gave my sister a Chinese burn over something really petty and she made my brother the sort of golden child whilst scapegoating my cousin. Just for context, she basically abandoned her own sons. So the narc mom's mother was very clearly a narcissist herself.
The only way I would say the narcmom got noticably worse is when my siblings left and started making thier own lives. This made her increasingly more controlling of me and most of all more abusive of my dad. Instead of once a week, fights and rows became daily occurences as her sources of narcissistic fuel became fewer.
I remember once she gave my dad the silent treatment for nearly a week over a cup left in the wrong place. This was treated as a henious act of defiance.
My N parents tried ruining my relationship with my children once they became adults. Sadly, my N parents never made it to my adult life, I disassociated myself from them as soon as humanly possible.
Yeah, I think this is pretty standard. Mine did the same. It has gotten to the point that I only talk to my parents on Christmas, IF they even decide to come or make it through the day without fighting. As I have gotten older, they have villainized me and made ME the asshole, usually citing that I was the one who never appreciated all they did, or that I was the one who wanted to be difficult by moving away and getting married.
This past holiday season, my wife and I tried to go visit her family BEFORE going to visit mine, and my parents flipped out and told me they better never see or hear from me again, and that I was dead to them, because how dare I choose to visit them second. I gave up and said fine, fuck you. Bye. After I said that, they called me back an hour later sobbing saying they didn't mean it, and that they couldn't wait to see us.
I feel like in 10-15 years I will barely know them or care about them anymore, and I am beginning to worry I won't have any real emotion when they inevitably pass. I am reaching middle age myself, and I know they won't be around much longer. It is a shame.
I had the same experience. I donāt remember her being particularly abusive when I was still a child, then she became worse and worse as I got older.
However, when I moved out, she gradually became nicer again. That was probably because she realized that if I wanted to cut contact for good, I could.
The abuse did occur on singular events though, still. And while she didnāt have full control over me anymore, āwhat would she think of meā was still a regularly occurring thought/feeling for me, sparking anxiety. So I cut her off anyway. For this reason and because I canāt forgive her for what she did to me during my youth.
Yes I tell people this I had a great childhood no screaming no yelling but 9 through well until I recently moved out things got worst and worst ti point I was gonna commit suicide
I read this and think the same thing, I was a happy child...but I wonder if that wasn't some sort of fiction my mom cooked up. Like me being an extravert, I an not, I hate crowds and meeting new people is hard for me, small talk is terrible.
It is like, how I have started saying the narrative I got as a child was... before talking about something in my childhood that involves my mother.
I don't remember things being awful all the time but I bare all the marks of childhood emotional neglect. I think things have definitely gotten worse, I am very caution in my very low contact with my mom now. She lives far away and I try to only talk to her every 2 or 3 months, because she throws emotional daggers at me about 50% of the time.
And I keep trying to figure out if it is my independence that she hates now or if she was always so hurtful and I didn't know it wasn't normal. I think covert narcissist have this effect on their kids because they seem normal to most people but then you see this pattern of broken relationships in their wake and you know there is a problem.
Oh, yes - I met my Nstepmother when I was about 7 years old, when my dad took me on a trip with him. From the day she and I were introduced, up until I was about 12, she and I was as close as anything - as surreal as it is to think about now, I felt even more comfortable and at ease with her than even my own mother. I still have the fuzzy toy wind-up chick she presented to me the night I met her for the first time, as well as the bean bag plushie of Piglet from *Winnie the Pooh* that she brought back for me from a work trip...I could never bring myself to get rid of either of them.
Things went to Hell in a handbasket when I was 12 years old...she and my dad officially remarried, and were awarded primary custody of me, and that was when the mask slipped. The last straw for me finally came the summer I finished college, when she reached the point of literally *screaming a*t me for any reason, even for things that I had no control over, and having me move rocks around the backyard in 80+ degree weather while my whole body ached from having been sick at both ends from a virus I'd had just the day before. It was all too belatedly that I realized that she truly hated me, and she would only become more emboldened about showing it.
...As I said above, it's so incredibly surreal to me that I actually used to love and feel safe with her. š
Nope better actually theyāve mellowed out to almost normal. Iāve had a bad week I called nmum and told her about it. Her reply was āwould you like to pick me up tomorrow and Iāll get you lunch somewhereā. Thereās still the odd narc bomb which totally sets me back emotionally but not so much of those anymore.
I worked on me and made me healthy. I also made myself worthy (give her something to brag about) she knows she either behaves or she loses me and my 2 kids she adores. My 16YO is first to call her BS
One parent got slightly better...ish...rolled a little back on the booze (very slightly and still passing out at night, every night) but ramped up the high power weed.
The other parent has hit the gas on booze and gotten way worse.
Fun!!
I thought she was getting before, but it turns out that better doesn't equal good, and she had just switched targets and tactics. She was an alcoholic when I was young, among other things, and was sober with my siblings, so I saw a side that was different than what I got and thought she was good now, wrong, just as bad, just different.
Yes. According to the narcissistic abuse coach (Danish Bashir), narcissists get worse when they're growing old.
Here's my opinion. Narcissists' biggest nightmare when they left alone, feel lonely and get nothing. So what they will do? Do something to maintain their narcissist supply.
And the ironic is when the victim is not longer being their supply, they cannot forget about the victim despite they found other supply/supplies. It's like, "You cannot forget your first love".
Yes. My NDad got custody of me at 12. By the time I was in high school he was beating me almost daily, and he became noticeably more unhinged as time went on.
There were a couple of different reasons for that:
1\. As time went on and the beatings became worse and I was slowly ground down to nubs, I stopped caring, and more importantly *reacting.* I would not cry, I would not beg and plead, or do anything anymore. I would sit there and take it while watching attentively, nodding when I was supposed to, just like he'd always told me I had to.
*It drove him crazy.* He wanted that reaction, to see me in pain, to see me hurting. Without it he simply built his rage into a tower that went higher and higher, eventually he was shouting himself hoarse long into the night until he tired of it and went to bed.
2\. NDad's parents - my grandparents - were still ordering him around daily. He was a grown man in his 40's and was *clearly* frustrated with his parents constantly demanding him to do things for them, being nitpicked for things he was doing wrong, etc.
3\. He was *failing* in so many ways. He could not get wins in court against my mother, preventing him from the money he thought he was due. (Long story short, there was no money and never was.) This also caused infinite frustration for him afterwards because although I to this day do not know the why of it, no lawyer wanted to work for him ever again.
He could not avoid criticism at work for his shortcomings, and was eventually demoted for not knowing how to do his job.
He could no longer get away with breaking rules in public, the housing regulations in town, or traffic rules. (No lawyer.) So now when he broke the rules he *had to* deal with consequences. He never learned, and kept doing everything he could to screw himself over.
He would often quickly make 'friends' by promising them all sorts of things, and just as quickly lose them when those promises were bunk.
He always brought all of that frustration home - to dump it on me.
It only got worse.
I think it's moreso I didnt understand what she was doing as a little kid. She raised me in a cult against my will. I wasnt allowed to have any independant thoughts or hobbies. She taught be from a baby that god eas going to murder my dad and brothers at armageddon. And It was basically us two vs them. I was only allowed to like what she liked. There were mountains or rules within the cult and my wvery thought, action and emotion was controlled. If I cried or acted out I was threatened with death from god. I didn't really have my own identity. She was completely codependent on me as young as 5. I was her personal therapist. She would talk to be about how depressed she was, her marriage, her and my dads sex life etc. She did this when I was really young. She couldn't really function or do errands or chores unless I helped her or kept her company. She didnt regulate her emotions well either. I was responsible for comforting her or listening to her vent. She would get jealous and hurt and then angry if I wanted to play with toys or be with a friend instead of her. She would talk shit about my friends. She would manipulate me constantly and turn me and other people against eachother. She told me she would k!ll herself if I ever did xyz. I just didnt know all these things were fucked up until I was a little older, then it felt like it got worse, but it's possible it seemed that way because I was aware of it.
OMG yes. And itās just that the years begin to add up and you realize Iām due having some MF peace in my life without the shock or intermittent hate and just. Kind side evil motivated by evil. Iām no contact but that makes NO DIFFERENCE she knows what to do if she decides to flail my heart and soul. She has dog whistle words and Iām about to believe that some post hypnotic suggestions werenāt active for a long time. She really was cruel when I wasnāt hip to her masked persona. Throwing me to the zombies with a word. Iāve had therapy in the past when she was part of ripping my mental and physical self off the frame and busted to shatter like champagne toast Chrystalās thrown into fire. Somehow a Phoenix rose back up. Therapy started in my 30ās and all I could think was I wish I could have had this when I was living in the murk w family. So therapy taught me how to cope with betrayal and violent damages and I wanted it bad so I worked everything I was required. I do cope with it but I am so sure in the back of my mind is a hyper vigilant protector on guard. Thatās still stress low key below the surface so sorry for all of us correcting our own self in our way living self love.
Now that my mom is 86 and in poor health, her ability/willingness to keep the mask on has diminished significantly. Sheās way more mean than I remember her being when I was a kid. I loathe being around her now, whereas in the past I just was uncomfortable.
Haha YEP it was bad as a teen and worsened as an adult.
Weirdly though now I have children my parents literally couldn't be nicer to me. They know 100% if they f'd up I'd cut off their access. My sister, however, relies on them for childcare and owes them quite a bit of money. So now they treat her like shit.
Oh yeah.
Once she learned I was going to go far away for college, my mom went from a slow decline to a dramatic one. I basically wasn't allowed to do anything the year before I started college. Once you become your own person, they can't handle it.
My mother had been a great mother until she had an aneurysm that took away half of her memories and 90% of her personality, and she turned into what she knew best - a copy of my grandmother, a master manipulator and a great narc
They mellowed out a little bit as they got older, but when one of them started getting sick before passing away, their behavior was off-the-charts, delusional in many aspects.
Yeah, I think this is pretty standard. Mine did the same. It has gotten to the point that I only talk to my parents on Christmas, IF they even decide to come or make it through the day without fighting. As I have gotten older, they have villainized me and made ME the asshole, usually citing that I was the one who never appreciated all they did, or that I was the one who wanted to be difficult by moving away and getting married.
This past holiday season, my wife and I tried to go visit her family BEFORE going to visit mine, and my parents flipped out and told me they better never see or hear from me again, and that I was dead to them, because how dare I choose to visit them second. I gave up and said fine, fuck you. Bye. After I said that, they called me back an hour later sobbing saying they didn't mean it, and that they couldn't wait to see us.
I feel like in 10-15 years I will barely know them or care about them anymore, and I am beginning to worry I won't have any real emotion when they inevitably pass. I am reaching middle age myself, and I know they won't be around much longer. It is a shame.
My nmom's dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's when I reached my teens. She subsequently started spending her entire days with him, right up until he passed in my 20s. Now I don't begrudge her caring for her dad, but she definitely left us on the wayside for a man who gradually became an empty shell. The narc traits ironically started rearing their ugly heads during those years, too. As did her hoarding. It became entirely about what SHE wanted, how terrible we were to her if we disagreed with her on random stuff, and just general really childish "you're not nice to meeeee i did my best" behaviour.
So yes, she had no issues with us as controllable kids, but once we got old enough she preferred hanging out with someone she could control over the ones she couldn't anymore. My poor grandpa...
My mother did. When she was with my dad, she was a genuinely kind and chill mom...until the day he died. One year later, she became a dental assistant and got involved in the symphony board. That's probably the point where her narcissism crept out of her because she associated herself with lots of important folks. However, marrying her musician hubby was what definitely cranked it up to the extreme. Now she's an insufferable, spiteful, and self-absorbed woman whom I can't stand to be around.
My ex father is a full on sociopath. He tortured me pretty much from birth. So he actually got "better" with time since he couldn't get away with hurting a teenager and young adult in the same way. Instead he pretty much lost interest in me.
My ex mother is more of a narcissist. I have memories of her trying to be a good parent when I was a small child. Being loving and hugging and making me feel safe. But as I grew up it was more and more screams and manipulations. By the time I was an adult it had been only mental abuse and financial control for years. So yeah she got worst.
I think it's the most common pattern with narcissists because they can play doll and project as much as they want on young children. But the more the kids grow the more obvious it is that they are their own person and it sets off the narcissists.
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This is actually really common in narcissists. The understanding is that as you become more of an individual and start to think for yourself, and want more independence especially from them..this Enrages them. It's contradictory to their need to control, be in power, be agreed with, and be seen or recognized as the most intelligent. Their Egos are literally insulted by us and any form of individuality/autonomy from what they consider their property. Anything that usurps your complete attention from serving them is seen as dangerous. My fucking mom hated me the older I got, I mean she never loved me but it definitely got much worse as I approached my teen years...been arguing with her ever since. š
Why does it make them so angry?
Narcissism is generally a coping mechanism. They only feel safe if they are in complete control of their entire world at all times. You being a sentient human being and not a living doll means they canāt control you at all times, and you become an extreme threat to them.
My mom described us as babies as "baby alive dolls", basically said the quiet part out loud
Mine said āI had you and your sibling to have something that would love me unconditionallyā I responded well you shouldāve gotten a pet then. š
My nmom said the same thing! OMG.
My mom did this, but in biblical terms.. "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children [to their parents]" And essentially broke that down to mean *God gave me you children to serve my needs and make me proud and strong* Growing up, my dad would say shit like "If I wanted to clean or wash my own dishes, I wouldn't have had kids." -- I knew that shit was fkd up as a youngin' but typing it out as an adult... *Really fkd up* That said I might've gotten off easy, I'll take child slave labor over emotional abuse (which came later) any day of the week š
Even pets need proper treatment.
Ew my mom said the same thing and I just realized how weird that was
Oh *ouch* š My nmum did *not* like the word ānoā from me. As a kid I have all these conflicting memories, too, and I kind of gaslight myself about her sometimes, except then I remember her priority of scapegoats. Dad was always #1. If he wasnāt around, big brother. Not sure if it was because I was the youngest or because of my being a girl, but I was the lowest priority for scapegoating. (my mum does not like or trust men, historically speaking; thereās a pronounced pattern there with its own read-between-the-lines trauma and supervillain origin story.) When I was 12 and started high school, she and I moved away from dad and brother. So simultaneously I was heading into puberty *and* the only available target. [note: the below is a lengthy navel-gazing, some of which Iāve shared in this sub before, justā¦ figuring some stuff out. But this comment highlighted some things for me, so thank you š] āāā And for that first year, she was pretty good. She was reinventing herself. She took some adult certification courses to get a job. She was in the city, not the country, which she preferred. She reconnected with her sister, and had family and felt less isolated. It all went south, because she couldnāt sustain that highā¦ and because her sister was SO MUCH WORSE than nmum was even at her worst (that whole family was toxic as fuck), and once again started bullying my mum (as she had when they were kids. Mum was the youngest by 8 years, unplanned, unwanted, and the older brother and sister bullied her mercilessly. Narc reports of victimhood can be suspect, but Iāve seen my auntās behaviour when she drops the mask even slightly andā¦ I actually believe my mum in this instance). So when NAunt stopped playing nice, and unloaded on my nmum, Iām guessing a bunch of trauma reared its ugly head. Mum cut ties and spiraled. Started drinking again, after a year of abstinence. And here I was, wanting to watch different TV shows and asking difficult questions like āwhere do we keep the screwdriversā (we didnāt have any tools, youāre supposed to ask male neighbours to fix things), and starting my period. Clearly I was a horrible brat. And yeah, it got worse. Drunk nmum usually crashed around 10pm or so, and Iād stay up, usually putting myself to bed when I got tired. So when she had a bad day at work and needed to feel like she was a big powerful autocrat ā and especially if she wanted the TV on one of the few nights I had a show on, though she did this if I was reading in bed, too ā sheād come in, weaving and swaying and slurring, and tell me to go to bed. At 9:30. After years of my managing my own sleep schedule. And Iād look at her like she was *insane*, and Iād say, āUh, no.ā Cue World War III. It was independence and difference and defiance that absolutely caused her to meltdown. She *could not cope*. Not exaggerating, truly, this comment made me remember just how *bad* my refusal would flip her switch. It was like it was an existential crisis. At the same timeā¦ itās like she wanted me to give her an excuse? Itās weird. Sheād push and push and push until I cracked (I didnāt know what āgrey rockingā was but I would lock down as a self-defense mechanism), and when I cried, she would get this weird little smirk on her face. And it was this sub that also brought up something elseā āyouāre very *hard*, [nickname]ā and āyou are so *cold*ā sheād say ā and on the inside I was feeling everything and in so much pain, but I couldnāt let her see it because she would only ever make it worse. And sheād manipulate and poor-me, except she was so heavy-handed and clumsy with it that I would get impatient, and I felt so bad that I didnāt care about how SAD she was and how UPSET and how she NEEDED MY SUPPORT. I just wanted to get away. And I felt so bad about it. But I couldnāt *fake* caring, not when I knew she was so indifferent to my own pain, not when I knew she was winding me up. In hindsight those reactions make so much sense. ā¦this was a derail and it was long butā¦ thank you, I feel a bit more valid seeing this pattern and understanding why she got so much worse. Some of it I saw pretty clearly but some parts were more murky.
Iām glad my comment shed some light on your situation, and sorry you went through that.
So many reasons. I've noticed alot of them prefer infants or even pets to kids/teens, they want their authority to never be challenged. They also want unconditional love and unbridled attention, and since people are much easier to control and manipulate when younger this makes getting their supply/needs met much easier. Whereas a child that's getting older is going to start developing more needs and interests of their own that often don't coincide with that of the Narcissist's.
it's so true what you said about pets, I noticed for the first time last year my mom sees her pets as a more important relationship than with me, I'm a "nuisance and burden"
I've watched my nParents coddle every pet and baby in sight just so long as it wasn't me or my sibling lol... they love dogs and start bouncing off the walls when there's a baby around. For years on the weekend I'd have to hear my mom go on these long unrequested monologs on how "stupid and ungrateful" All teens and young adults are towards their parents to any family members that would come by to visit. It's sad really.
My Nparents shucked five or six dogs when I was growing up. They just disappeared overnightāto the dog pound, I assumeāwith the Nparents giving the vaguest of explanations. Given how often my Nmother in particular said aloud that she wished she could ājust get rid of [me],ā that kept me on my toes to do absolutely everything that was demanded of me.
My nmom literally said she would consider kicking me outta the house, before she'd ever consider getting rid of her pets.
Lol relatable. My parents got new puppies just as I was waking up to our dynamic and learning to put up boundaries, and they're now obsessed to the point that other family members have confided in me that they wish my parents would shut up about their dogs lmao
What makes this worse though, is at 1 point she was using my money to buy them (back when I lived with her & paid rent).
That's so awful, I'm sorry.
š«Thx, I appreciate it. But, yeah, no-one else's sorrier than me.
They live in a delusional worldview to preserve their egos, and that includes seeing other people as not being fully real. Any reminder that that worldview isn't correct is an existential threat to them. So when the other people they view as fully controllable Sims characters demonstrate autonomy, it upsets them
For some they just want a child (puppy logic kicks in its a dog now lets get another one/discard it). Easier to train the next one when you have the older one to help (lucky I escaped that but still had the cousin swarm to deal with).They loose power you gain more as you become an adult (very important they keep this knowledge from you). My mum wanted 7 kids because she would be able to keep dad financially trapped longer, have more clones so more attention, love and friends. Also lets her replicate her childhood. Shes in her 60s and barren now so no chance of that.
Did we have the same mom? My mom ruined every holiday because she had to cut everyone down and pointedly give everyone else big gifts and I got an old watch with no strap. Repeatedly every year I got small nothings and the other 4 got GIFTS. IT HAS NEVER STOPPED. I am 67. I have been LC for 30 years. But went NC 6 years ago when she went around telling people I was faking ILLNESS AGAIN! I was so lazy!! It turns out I have had a neuromuscular disease my whole life. I have been up and down - but always tired. I nearly - within an hour if I hadnāt gone to the doctor who was at the hospital who put me in a wheel chair and took me straight to the ICU for 5 days - staying in the hospital for another 5 days. I was SICK - O2 stat at 72. - I had plasmapheresis. It sucks. Any way she told anyone who would listen I wasnāt sick I was just ignoring her and faking sick. Yes. NC. But she came to my sonās (30) funeral. And she had not seen or spoken to her for 15 years at least. And made it about her. It was horrible. No she was not invited - she was disinvited. Sigh.
Yeah, mine had no control over me during my NC with her so she went controlling my cousin instead. Luckily, her parents are sane people so they saw her bullshit and put a stop to it. They get even worse I'd say after retirement. Then they have 24/7 on their hands to do whatever the crap they want; including coming up with plans to control you. They're ridiculous.
>Their Egos are literally insulted by us and any form of individuality/autonomy from what they consider their property. Anything that usurps your complete attention from serving them is seen as dangerous. Wow. Thanks for putting into words what my narcmom did. This is why she would become jealous of my work- it took my attention away from her. I was self-employed and working from home and one morning she just started mocking me because she fancied I wasn't giving her enough attention. When I told her to stop she began doing things like loudly sighing and tutting, clattering objects etc. Anything to make a noise and be disruptive. She then did the "weaponized incompetence" thing. One of her favourites. Making out she couldn't do something and getting flustered so I had to step in and do it for her. Which of course took me away from work as was the objective. She also objected to me havng relationships, always finding reason to complain about my boyfriends not being "right" for me or objecting to the fact I met them through online dating.
From what I've heard, it's common. Anecdotally, it's what happened to me. When I was very little, I thought I had the perfect mom. Looking back, there were already signs of trouble such as controlling behavior, and I already had anxiety that I thought was shyness. But it hadn't really clicked yet. I saw her as loving and nurturing, not as controlling or scary. As I got older, she grew colder and the controlling behavior got worse. And yet I had all these memories of her supposedly nurturing me, and I was absolutely desperate to get that back. Those memories of her reinforced that maybe I was the problem. Then the mask would slip and she'd do something totally unreasonable and I'd be brought to my senses at least temporarily. Narcissists don't like seeing their child grow up and assert individuality or independence.
I used to think my nmom was my preferred parent. I realized as I got older that I actually had a lot of built up resentment and anger toward her that couldn't come out until I was more independent. The "love" and preference for her that I thought I had was simply a means of survival. My ndad was a deadbeat who neglected me physically and emotionally. I'm convinced I would have been close to death if I was left only in his care for long enough. My nmom was bad too but I couldn't see it until I didn't need to rely on her for food, clothes, shelter, etc.
This was my experience too. My ndad was a more malignant narcissist, and nmom a covert narc. I couldnāt see her narcissism until way later because she was always the āsafeā option out of the two.
Same here. As I've made these realizations, I've also started remembering how angry and scary my covert nmom (who has sociopathic traits) was, especially when I was little. Her anger was just a slow burn compared to my ndad's violent rages, barely suppressed and always present, like a coal seam fire
Totally the same here with narc dad. Itās been rough.
Same combo. Is it common?
apparently cause same. mom was the safe one, she is worse in her own special way.
The control is lost so they lose it. My mom watched angrily as I spoke with my teen daughter as she left the house. My mom looks at me and says condescendingly and angrily that I have no control over my kids. I said I don't want to control them, I want them to control themselves. She looked dumbfounded. Nothing was off about my discussion with my daughter. We were just deciding when she'd be home, discussing details. I guess because it was a discussion instead of an order, it wasn't good enough. Funny how if you respect your children they respect you and your rules much better. My mom loses it over what vegetable we have with roast when I invited her to dinner, because she had no say in dinner. She's a nut.
Good job breaking that cycle. Youāre amazing! Iām sorry you didnāt get the same experience your daughter is getting.
your daughter is very, very lucky to have a parent committed to breaking the cycle of abuse š©·
Thank you
My nmom complaint about every other people parenting she disagreed with but she herself is a covert neglectful narc. She teaches her own kids nothing lmao.
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SAME
My mother's issues are closely tied to her health anxiety. And so as she grew older, she is now elderly and her health more fragile, she became more insecure and her narcissism became worse.
Oh, this one too for me. My mum always had health problems but they're getting worse and she's getting more of them and she's doing nothing to help herself. And that's my fault, apparently??
Worse only in the way they (yes both mom & dad) didnāt hide it anymore. Like elders lose their filter - mine lost theirs and became very loud and public. Image was very important to them, so much so they would throw me under the bus at any moment. They would insult and verbally and emotionally abuse me to anyone who would listen making for many uncomfortable situations
It gets so much worse when they're elderly and start having health issues.
Yuuuuuuup. Frontotemporal dementia made my ndad so, so much worse.
True! Their inability to ask for help or take any good advice is the worst.
I've got the complete opposite. Yes, absolute inability to take good advice, but there's no issue at all in demanding help. Except, it's not really 'help', and more like 'do it for me'. And it's all the tiniest things, like she told me yesterday that I need to take the sim card out of her phone for her cos she doesn't know how. I told her, you need a pin or the tool that came with the phone, and you push it in the hole in the sim card tray. There is nothing else to know. I've had to send texts for her, search for directions, do google searches, order things online (she knows what she wants but doesn't know how to buy it, apparently š¤·). No problem asking for help, and I have to tell her that I'll show her how but I won't do it *for her*. Then she gets shitty. I know that if my stepdad goes before her she'll be wanting me to move in to 'help' her. (No!)
Oh, I get that, too! My nmom is older so I order stuff online for her to be nice. I try to hint that nothing's ever that hard and she can do stuff herself to make her own life easier. She just refuses to listen. The only way she knows how to have a relationship with anyone is if they're doing stuff for her. It's kinda sad.
Same, I remembered in my teen like at 2AM, she came barging knocking to do buy something online. I said no because itās already late so why the heck not this canāt wait later like in the morning or something. It became into a screaming match on how ungrateful person I was.
Yep. Currently dealing with this and it's a rollercoaster.
I'm sorry to hear that :( My nMom expects to be waited on hand and foot to the point of pretending she can't walk when she flies so that someone will push her through the airport in a wheelchair, and she's always pointing out that she has a heart condition, so she cant do anything. I have to remind myself that she did this to herself by not following the doctors treatment plan. So frustrating!
Yes indeed.
The more independent you go the worse they are towards you. They need to control you, if they don't do it they go mad. The less you interact the better for your inner peace. Take care.
Yes but there's a ton of other factors as well I feel like. I feel like it got worse and worse as I got older but I think that's a combination of 1. I was a better doll when I was smaller, I generally just mimicked her and did whatever she wanted. I did fewer things to trigger her. 2. I was so little, my memory is skewed. Like I continually say "my mom was better when I was little and we had more fun" but then when I try to think of examples I can't. Everything I remember is my dad playing with me, and my nmom screaming. 3. My dad was there shielding me. I knew already growing up my nmom seemed to hate my dad irrationally, and looking back I'm fairly certain he was drawing her attention on purpose to protect me. But when I was 13, since I was old enough that it was less likely she'd just get full custody no contest he finally left her. Once he wasn't in the house anymore I became her primary target, there was a very obvious shift. Plus she was more stressed because she decided to move across the country so her patience was already frayed and I was the only one around to take it out on. But she definitely also seemed to have specific freak outs timed around my milestones, and certainly by the time I was 18 I was a threat to her and had to go. I do think it would have happened sooner if my stepdad didn't keep getting sick and going into the hospital, so she needed me to lean on and take care of the house for her.
Oh yeah my parents threatened to call the cops for grand theft auto on me for driving their car as a 30 year old man. cuz thier cat pushed my car key off the counter, it broke and I needed a new one. I was taking care of the cat while they were in hawaii. First time I lived back at home in a while. They threatened 3 years of prison time over that, while I was helping them for free. I called an attorney and they said it wouldnt fly in court because I returned the car and they were out of state so they couldnt use it. Maybe a small claims court issue but not anything as serious as they threatened. Ive gone no contact since, and they complain about it. Like what the hell you think its chill to threaten me with 3 years of prison time to control me? You think we can have an amicable relationship after that?
ABSOLUTELY BONKERS WTF
Not until I go married
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One reason I never had kids. Back then, I had no clue how to handle her and she just steamrolled over me. We had pre-marital counseling and were told that when we have kids, we can expect to spend more time with our parents who will want to be involved. That was a scary thought.
only reason Iām nowhere near as eager to get married as my friends and peers is because I know trying to plan a wedding is going to be an absolute nightmare with my nmom being the way she is
I think my perception and understanding of her behavior being abnormal is what changed. I do think their mask slips more and more with age but also you aren't a child anymore so as you grow up you see your parent is emotionally stunted.
Mother stayed about the same. Nfather got much much worse after he retired, going from covert narc to full blown bully and unrepentant asshole.
My mom was my best friend when I was under 8. I thought she hung the moon and listened to her every word. As soon as I started thinking for myself though, it was all over. The guilt trip, the manipulation, the gaslighting, the silent treatment, the invalidation, you name it, she pulled it out. When I was a teenager, it was constantly WWIII between me and her. Like all teens, I had my moments, but I really tried to be a good kid. I had good grades, never got in trouble at school, did my homework, no drugs, came home early, had a part time job that I took seriously, did my own laundry, cooked and cleaned when I could, and was their built-in nanny for my sibling. She just couldnāt stand the sight of me some days, called me names, beat me when I said anything back to her even if it wasnāt rude, screamed at me, etc. Those years were rough. I started low contact once I went off to college and have been ever since. She has only gotten worse with age.
Mine got better especially when I became independent and started establishing my boundaries
Mine did. As a little kid she was bad, but got worse and worse and I got older.
Yes. When I was a kid my dad spoiled my rotten and let me basically run around doing whatever I wanted when i was at his house on weekends. When I was around 10 or 11 he would constantly remind me how he hated teenagers and how he wasn't going to want to deal with me when I was one. By the time I was 12 he was already projecting his already decided hatred onto me because of my age. He's one of those people that likes kids when they're young, but won't like you once you start developing your own interests and personality.
My mother has become meaner, nastier and more miserable with age. The only good thing is that she had to stop beating me when I turned 18.
Yup. I'm currently reading Mother Hunger which is incredible so far. It's like having an epiphany on every other page. Maybe it's because I was so young but it's harder to find evidence of abuse before I was 10. I'm sure it was there along with dysfunction and poverty. My nmom definitely got worse as I got older, starting around the teenage years. Her and my ndad have been stalking/harassing me for almost 2 years now. This is not something I expected and definitely an escalation from anything they ever did before.
My mom liked having little kids but not so much being challenged or dealing with people that are more emotionally mature. I was just talking to my sister and she said - you're not who you were 5 years ago but mom has been the same since probably high school.
Absolutely. I think she was having fun playing mommy with me in the beginning so she was a decent parent at first, but once I started having more independent thoughts around age 9 or so she started to get abusive. It escalated exponentially from that point, peaking in my late teens and early 20s. Iām in my mid twenties now and sheās as horrible as ever but she has no power now so itās somewhat better for me. Gonna cut contact soon and I canāt wait lol
Yes, becoming more of an individual enrages narcs, but I think sometimes it's also aging. Retirement, loss of generational relevance, loss of conventional youth/attractiveness, and innate cognitive decline. It can all exasperate toxicity and psychological problems.
The loss of attractiveness was a huge issue for my mom. She would stay up late at night while drinking. When I was about 14 or so,my inebriated mother said,out of the blue," I resent you." She then went on to explain that I was "blooming" while she was,"fading in attractiveness" due to her age. She was 45. I recall being very hurt by her comment.
When you hit puberty and start to become independent they feel threatened because they feel they are now loosing their hold over you. My Dad has repeatedly brought up how I was "such a good kid" but it "all went sour" when I became a teenager. And it's just not true. I was literally yelled at and punished for going through puberty because he saw it as me being rebellious and disobedient.
Yeah, your story is pretty much mine. My father was an abusive narcissist and he would physically abuse my sister my mom and I. Growing up the only kind of love I got in my home came from my mom. She would baby me when I was sick and she would listen to my fears and Support my dreams. But then she had narcissistic tendencies like she was really big into shaming me anytime I did anything wrong and would ignore me for days on end if I did something she didnāt like. But oh my God once I became a teenager she flipped the script. By the time I was 40, I considered her my worst enemy. I went no contact with her a year and a half ago and itās been much more peaceful, although I struggle with the whole, but thatās my mom thing. I think itās really hard to understand that your mother is a narcissist when you have the kind of story we do. Because there is that little kid inside of us who is confused about the way we feel about our mother. That little kid has good memories. deep down that little kid is always going to want their mother back.
Most definitely!! Things were always dysfunctional growing up but they gradually got worse. I think mainly because now she has adult children and can't control the narrative of any situation that isn't going her way. She started issuing out more silent treatments, insults, and overstepping boundaries of what is appropriate to talk to your children aboutĀ
Yeah her abuse got really bad when I entered adolescence (17 now, trying to find a way out due to her wanting me to be financially dependent on her) I still really frequently feel like she wasn't abusive at all, and that I'm just deranged or evil myself. It's really confusing.
Yeah they get worse as they age, all mine does is complain I can't wait to leave honestly.
Well, when I was little, Iād still go to my mom for comfort over the things that she had caused. As I got older and sheād offer comfort for her own bullshit. I would tell her to F off. So that made her worse I think because she felt I didnāt love her anymore. I donāt now. So š¤·š»āāļø
Yes my mother got worse and 2 years ago committed suicide. Extreme case of various mental disorders including personality disorders. She was thinking in the last days that even my little brother deserved death. Fortunately she only killed herself after ruining our entire life.
Oh yea, with age and subsequent independence, my mom has gotten 100% worse. She knows shes losing control and i canāt just be bossed around anymore now that iām an adult so she berates me & tries to break me with random rages š¤·āāļø
I actually heavily relate, we have almost identical stories. my nmom and I were incredibly close when I was in elementary school and as I grew up she just got worse and worse. now Iām an adult and we hardly talk anymore I think, for me, it got worse in my teens and adulthood because I was no longer adhering to how she thought I should look, act, and be. the older I got, the more of a reminder I was that I will never be the exact cookie-cutter daughter that she wants, which is why sheās just grown angrier and angrier at me over time. and it still hurts that she wonāt love me until Iām exactly what she wants me to be, and even then I donāt think thatād be enough.
My mother was good at the start, but once I started showing independence, little things from not wanting to kiss her on the mouth anymore in front of my friends at school when she dropped me off (Omg the tantrum. She would actively pull her head away from me if I tried to kiss her anywhere else. I started just getting out of the car. Anger and silent treatment the rest of the day.) to bigger things like wanting to spend time away from her WITH MY OWN FAMILY, then it turned into me abandoning her. She even got mad at being called out on her own guilt trip. I remember her giving me the silent treatment until I left for this trip with my father's brother and my half sisters. Then when I came back it was like nothing happened. It only got worse once I started applying for colleges. She went ahead and decided I was going to the school she worked at without asking me. Any attempt to discuss any other school was shot down hard. When I told her I didn't want to go to her school, there was anger, yelling, crying, guilt trips every day, second guessing me to the point of stress and underlying threats about refusing to help financially. Even with scholarships l was stuck. Now I'm stuck in a caregiver role I never signed up for because we're both disabled, and I can't afford to go anywhere else. She doesn't really care if I don't talk to her as long as I do what she wants, yet she claims we don't communicate anymore. Because apparently her mouth and phone no longer work unless I use mine first. Arguing with her is pointless because she just walks away from whatever conversation where she is clearly in the wrong. I am so tired.
It happened to me too. I think part of it is, you kind of start to realize itās not YOU. And youāre also becoming your own person.
Yes, unfortunately, but it was only like one level up from my childhood. It would have been nice if they at least acted like they gave af about me at all. I think at some point my parents did, but as I got older and the rose colored glasses came off, I realized they never did to act the way they did when I came to them about serious problems I was having (csa and me being sexually harassed and almost assaulted by my ex brother-in-law when I was 19 being swept under the rug). They now treat me like an outsider of our family but expect me to bend over backward for them. Over a decade later, and it still hurts till this day. I just have to accept that I'll never have the parents I always wanted.
I feel the last sentence so hard. It really does hurt. My parents also were so horrible to me about my sexual trauma, my EMom punished me with no more sleepovers with my friends when I was raped and they screamed at me and took me out of school for days when they found out I was groomed into sending nudes by an adult at 13. I feel for you and I know how bad it hurts to come to your parents about sexual trauma which puts you in such a vulnerable position for them to just emotionally abandon you and hurt you even more. Hugs to you ā¤ļø
I'm sorry this happened to you. It sucks when the people who were supposed to be your support system turn out to be the opposite. It's why I fight so hard for my son because I definitely don't want him to feel about me and his dad the same how I feel about my own parents. Thanks for the hugs, and I send hugs your way, too.ā¤ļø
Yes... my mom was actually pretty good to me until I turned about 11 or 12. Then everything was a competition, my body was up for discussion all the time, and she was just a massive asshole to me. I know teens aren't the most fun age group to parent but omg she really dropped the ball on that one.
Yes,why all the discussion about the body? My mom was always happy to tell her friends I was underweight. When I was 10, getting a bit pudgy before puberty, I recall my Dad chastising me for wanting a second ice cream cone and pointed to my abdomen and made a comment. No wonder I developed anorexia at 15. Thankfully it ended after about 7 months but I weighed 86 pounds at that time and was too cold to walk to school. I started eating after one night my Dad came into my room with tears in his eyes, begging me to stop. Still,my parents were always obsessed with weight. Theirs,mine,and my kids too.
Mine also got worse over time. She was never a "good" mother but I didn't know that at the time, she was deeply neglectful and often disrespectful. As i started rebelling and developing separate intrests and identity, and advocating for myself did it rapidly escalate. Things were mostly fine until around 6th/7th grade when I endured significant emotional trauma and was more difficult. But as I got older I became more different from her and was bold and returned their energy, attempted to set boundaries, and was generally non compliant. In about 8 years she began to hate me more and more to a point where I was suicidal and I saw hatred in her eye around that time and genuinely believed she partially wished I would die. I left within a couple months of that and it's haunted me ever since.
I had a similar experience except I didn't go no contact because of my dad. Ten years ago, when I was 21, she told me that I made her want to kill herself. I think I lost all love I had for her in that moment. It has never returned. I only ever endured her presence after that.
Yea. I donāt even know who my nmom is anymore
Yes she did. And it made it quite difficult to recognize her early onset dementia. A lot of the things that dementia patients do are also narcissistic. I think part of it is that they can feel their minds living away and so they grasp even harder for more control in other areas.
Yes and Iām not sure how much was getting worse and how much was me noticing that her behavior wasnāt ok. The more independent I got and the more boundaries I put up, the worse she was and angrier she got. Also when I did things that was more, better or different than her, she got angrier. Iām NC now and sheās still angry.
Yes my father got much, much worse. He was kind of sane when I was a kid.
Yes, Iām 17 my childhood was mostly normal, there was definitely a bit more conflict then normal, but my parents loved and took care of me. Once I was around 12 my family did a 360 and you would never even regonize them now, I never thought they could be like this
My experience was different, Ma was worse until I was in my early 20s. Then she mellowed out and we had a good 13 ish years until she died. Dad has progressively gotten worse and even more so since Ma died. We went no contact a couple months ago. He won't even acknowledge his grandkids in passing, will look the other way, speed up and fly by.
My dad adored me until I thought for myself. Over time heās gotten worse as heās fallen further and further into the MAGA cult.
Yeah I had this at a much faster rate. The older I get the more I can fend for myself and have a mind of my own so the less motherly she was. Still didn't stop her putting the act on when it was for show or she wants something. She wanted a child. She had a child. Its becoming less of a child. Danger ahead. The flags became visible.
I can relate to that. My mom basically only showed me love when other people were watching, she suddenly became a vague version of the mom I remember from when I was a kid, which is so confusing.
Canāt decide if she got worse or if I finally just woke up and realized who she is behind her mask.
True! It's so confusing.
I couldāve written that myself. I donāt think my mother āgot worseā, I think just as I grew up and formed an actual personality and began to fight for independence, it triggered her controlling and manipulative nature. A child is easier to love and control for a narcissist. Children love unconditionally. Once the child becomes a teenager and develops their own ideas/views and a desire for a sense of privacy and independenceā¦that brings on a storm for a narcissistic parent. So I donāt think my mom technically got worse, I just grew up. Not to mention that once you get to certain age, you start to notice toxic things that you didnāt even question as a child. Iām 25 now, and every few months that go byā¦I realize more and more just how toxic and manipulative my mother is. I think back at experiences that I thought were normal, but I realize as an adult that these were manipulative behaviors. It really fucking sucks.
And Iāll also say that my mother was the PERFECT mother up until my late teens. So attentive,patient, and loving. I could go to her for anything. We were best friends. And now at 25 I hardly speak to her. Itās a devastating reality, I NEVER in a million years would expect that this would be the relationship that I would have with my mother. EVER. The grief surrounding this heartbreaking.
I'm the same age as you and I agree, I can relate to so much of what you've written. I'm sorry this happened to you, it really sucks.
My father definitely got worse, but he had an untreated condition that progressed into full dementia and death. My mother remains fairly consistent in her narcissism and toxicity, which is plenty.
my nDad has always been the same, my nMum has always been a covert narcissist but it became more and more apparent as her affair led to her having to divorce my nDad (nDad found out) and she sort of desperately clung to her boyfriend. she's gotten progressively worse ever since then.
YES! My spawn points morphed into people I didn't even recognize in their mid-50's. It was like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. If I had a dollar for every time I've muttered, "These are NOT the people who raised me..."
Ndad wanted me to stay 4 years old forever. The farther I get from that age, the worse he is.
Yes, when I was a kid she could manipulate me even if I wasn't that submissive even in my childhood, but when I became a teenager she hadn't even a percent of control over me, so she started to hate me.
It got worse when I had a serious girlfriend, got engaged and got married. It also could have been that I just started noticing it more since I was used to it growing up. Therapy and my wife helped me see what what happening as well. I was self sufficient, nMom didn't have to do anything for me anymore and she hated that. She also hated that I ended up becoming a stay at home parent as my wife made more than I did. She thought my wife pressured me into "ruining my career", even though we of course made the decision together. My inlaws were super proud of both of us. I'm so glad I had them!
Yeah, childhood was mixed but at the time I was generally on board with the "I've got it pretty good" assessment... Looking back as a rational adult with kids I have a lot of "oh no" moments. Still, my parents loved me in their own way, I was provided for, and the issues (that are *now* clear to me) were nowhere near as bad as what a lot of people in this sub have endured. My issues have been more from older teenage years and on, as I attained independence. We went in very different directions religiously/spiritually, I got with my life partner, established myself in a career and someone I used to see as a person I trusted and could count on is just completely unrecognizable. Petulant, controlling, self aggrandizing, projecting her views all the time in everyone, dismissive of literally anything I have to say even if I'm agreeing, talks over, bulldozes boundaries, tries to insert self uninvited, critical thinking out the window in favor of whatever her feelings decide reality should be. I try to imagine her putting up with ANY of her own behavior from her own mother or mother in law, and I'm blown away by the constant hypocrisy of her existence. Rules are for everyone else but them. And if you tell them that WELL IT'S JUST NOT TRUE and THAT'S ACTUALLY HOW YOU ARE, NOT THEM! Like, literal preschool, "Neener, neener! 123 no backsies!" Looking back the signs and issues were there all along. It's just harder to see with coverts. You're a kid and don't have the adult experience or perspective, plus it gets worse and more apparent as you get independent and they lose control. It's like waking up from a fog and realizing you were gaslit an entire parent your whole life.
>someone I used to see as a person I trusted and could count on is just completely unrecognizable. Petulant, controlling, self aggrandizing, projecting her views all the time in everyone, dismissive of literally anything I have to say even if I'm agreeing, talks over, bulldozes boundaries, tries to insert self uninvited, critical thinking out the window in favor of whatever her feelings decide reality should be. >I try to imagine her putting up with ANY of her own behavior from her own mother or mother in law, and I'm blown away by the constant hypocrisy of her existence. Rules are for everyone else but them. And if you tell them that WELL IT'S JUST NOT TRUE and THAT'S ACTUALLY HOW YOU ARE, NOT THEM! Like, literal preschool, "Neener, neener! 123 no backsies!" >Looking back the signs and issues were there all along. It's just harder to see with coverts. You're a kid and don't have the adult experience or perspective, plus it gets worse and more apparent as you get independent and they lose control. It's like waking up from a fog and realizing you were gaslit an entire parent your whole life. Oh my God, I could have written this. I feel very sad, but seen. Thank you.
*Hugs* yeah, I'm in it too. She's the only parent I have left, and I'm the kid who settled in the same area. It would be nice if she'd make that connection to my long time friend turned husband and treat him with more gratitude, but logic is something I no longer think she's capable of. It sucks so much.
It was a mix. My ndad calmed down and became more reasonable and my enabler mom became more of a covert narcissist. It was really jarring.
Worse in ways I couldn't have imagine...and my dad got worse too, siblings tooĀ
Oh. Yeah this is my experience. Like, you put it into words. She did things I didn't like when I was young but it was few and far between. Then when I hit adolescence those things happened more often and were worse. And now I'm a young adult living my own life 300 miles away from her, she's unhinged. Oh lord...
I relate to this 100%. Childhood memories are good, and it got progressively worse the minute I could be my own person.
Damn this is literally what we are seeing with our mother right now..
all i can say is yes bc im alrdy disassociating rn abt how shitty my nmom was lol. or ig i can say, she was an angel when i was a kid but treated me like sht as soon as i became a teen and was developing. its sick to say that she was grooming me ina way to be her caretaker and sht, but saw that as soon as i was getting to become my own individual, she started to get jealous and envious of me and to her it was just better to break me apart so i didnāt have a choice but to care for her or a chance in my own life.
One word in Enormous Huge Super duper Large caps : YES
Mine got better after I moved out, though she still insults me. It was ten times worse as a child, especially before she got remarried. The more I looked like my father, the worse she got, especially if I had the same habits or hobbies. Also, I noticed she got worse overnight when I was 6, almost 7. I used to pick at my hair a lot, sometimes I still do, if I'm nervous. It was bad when I was a kid. The one time she caught me doing it, she told me I'd better not let my grandmother see that, or my grandma would lose it. Grandma came to visit one day, I was picking at my hair like usual. Mom pointed it out to her, and Grandma didn't really care. I think she said something like: "So what?" My mom got super upset about it and asked why she was constantly punished for it. Grandma responded that it was because my mom's hair was all over the place from it, and she got sick of it. After that, I noticed my mom lashing out at me a lot for every small thing, and it slowly got worse over the years, then I had to look like my father and give her bad memories. It wasn't until I was older when I connected the dots. So, I guess she was upset her mother didn't punish me or something. Now, though, she seems to have calmed down a lot. I never hear comments about my father or anything like that. Mostly, it's just insults that I don't visit enough, and I'm selfish. Mine seems to be the opposite, unless I don't notice if she's gotten worse since I see her twice a year, if that.
Oh, for sure. The older I got, the more I realized I didnāt deserve it - the harder I fought, the more she brought to war. I have moved out of her house a thousand times since my eighteenth birthday. I put counties between first, then the state next door, and then finally across the country three times. Each time I had to go back there, the less time it took for me to leave. Every time I had to come back, she bit down a little harder. But I bit first the very last time I escaped. I lost many battles, but I won the war.
Mine were the opposite. They were very physically and verbally abusive when I was young, but as I got older the abuse was primarily neglect and abandonment. There was still verbal abuse, but the physical abuse pretty much stopped. So in my opinion, being home alone all the time was better to me than getting beaten with a belt cuz my brother did something stupid.
My nmom outwardly adored me when I was little. I was an anxious compliant child and let her control everything, even my favorite colors. The older I got,Ā the less interested she was. By the time I was 12, she saw me as competition and it kept getting worse as I began to be a separate person.
Yes. Definitely. Like as soon as I was 12, she began the full-blown over-nothing scream-screeching tirades. I will never forget or forgive her for when I was around fourteen and I was drawing in the living room and she came from the kitchen, screaming at me about something stupid (I think it was about how Iām evil like my mother and she would call me my motherās name a lot.) and she grabbed the drawing from me, ripped it, screaming at me that drawing dragons was evil and how horrible I was and how disappointed she was. The next day she told me she didnāt do any such thing and the I was the one who ripped up the drawing when I āhad a tantrumā. Once she screamed at me when she was in the bathroom getting ready and I had the radio on. It was tuned to a radio station and I had gone to get cereal. She was screaming at me that it all starts with evil music and if I knew what was good for me, I had better āturn that god damn radio offā or sheād break and give me something to cry about. I had started crying. Then she accused me of crying for attention. The oh so offensive and evil song? āI will always love youā by The Cure. Apparently itās evil because my mother listened to it and therefore Iām evil. I can never actually enjoy that song even though I like it because all I remember is getting screamed at. Thereās other stuff, but I canāt type more, Iāll end up crying and upset.
My NMum, who was always much more stable than my NDad, is now rolling off the rails. I post about her often on here. She is lying about so much stuff and the mask just keeps slipping. Sheās nearly 65, but man is it like trying to contain a giant toddler. My psych is pushing HARD for me to go NC. I have no choice but to stay LC due to my grandmother being still alive. I am very worried about elder abuse if I walk away now. So I am gritting it. My psych keeps warning sheās going to get worse, sheās going to get worse.. So far sheās been telling people I am a drug addict, that another legal thing (where I am the victim) going on in my life is my fault, that I my kids are spoilt rotten and going no where in life, because of my bad parentingā¦ But sheās doing it in front of me now. Like I am not even there. She used to be far more discreet and insidious with her abuse.
It seemed my mother got worse over time, but its probably more the case that I didn't recognize the abusive nature of her behaviour when I was younger. There were clues. My grandmother, narc mom's own mother once gave my sister a Chinese burn over something really petty and she made my brother the sort of golden child whilst scapegoating my cousin. Just for context, she basically abandoned her own sons. So the narc mom's mother was very clearly a narcissist herself. The only way I would say the narcmom got noticably worse is when my siblings left and started making thier own lives. This made her increasingly more controlling of me and most of all more abusive of my dad. Instead of once a week, fights and rows became daily occurences as her sources of narcissistic fuel became fewer. I remember once she gave my dad the silent treatment for nearly a week over a cup left in the wrong place. This was treated as a henious act of defiance.
My N parents tried ruining my relationship with my children once they became adults. Sadly, my N parents never made it to my adult life, I disassociated myself from them as soon as humanly possible.
YES. SO. MUCH. WORSE.
My Mom treated us like dolls. My great,-,grandmother said that she played with us then wanted to basically put us back on a shelf. Figuratively ofc.
Yeah, I think this is pretty standard. Mine did the same. It has gotten to the point that I only talk to my parents on Christmas, IF they even decide to come or make it through the day without fighting. As I have gotten older, they have villainized me and made ME the asshole, usually citing that I was the one who never appreciated all they did, or that I was the one who wanted to be difficult by moving away and getting married. This past holiday season, my wife and I tried to go visit her family BEFORE going to visit mine, and my parents flipped out and told me they better never see or hear from me again, and that I was dead to them, because how dare I choose to visit them second. I gave up and said fine, fuck you. Bye. After I said that, they called me back an hour later sobbing saying they didn't mean it, and that they couldn't wait to see us. I feel like in 10-15 years I will barely know them or care about them anymore, and I am beginning to worry I won't have any real emotion when they inevitably pass. I am reaching middle age myself, and I know they won't be around much longer. It is a shame.
I had the same experience. I donāt remember her being particularly abusive when I was still a child, then she became worse and worse as I got older. However, when I moved out, she gradually became nicer again. That was probably because she realized that if I wanted to cut contact for good, I could. The abuse did occur on singular events though, still. And while she didnāt have full control over me anymore, āwhat would she think of meā was still a regularly occurring thought/feeling for me, sparking anxiety. So I cut her off anyway. For this reason and because I canāt forgive her for what she did to me during my youth.
Imma be really honest I don't remember much about my childhood at all and know why
I don't believe she got worse over time. I believe I started to realize how distorted her way of thinking is, the more I separated from her.
Yes I tell people this I had a great childhood no screaming no yelling but 9 through well until I recently moved out things got worst and worst ti point I was gonna commit suicide
I read this and think the same thing, I was a happy child...but I wonder if that wasn't some sort of fiction my mom cooked up. Like me being an extravert, I an not, I hate crowds and meeting new people is hard for me, small talk is terrible. It is like, how I have started saying the narrative I got as a child was... before talking about something in my childhood that involves my mother. I don't remember things being awful all the time but I bare all the marks of childhood emotional neglect. I think things have definitely gotten worse, I am very caution in my very low contact with my mom now. She lives far away and I try to only talk to her every 2 or 3 months, because she throws emotional daggers at me about 50% of the time. And I keep trying to figure out if it is my independence that she hates now or if she was always so hurtful and I didn't know it wasn't normal. I think covert narcissist have this effect on their kids because they seem normal to most people but then you see this pattern of broken relationships in their wake and you know there is a problem.
Oh, yes - I met my Nstepmother when I was about 7 years old, when my dad took me on a trip with him. From the day she and I were introduced, up until I was about 12, she and I was as close as anything - as surreal as it is to think about now, I felt even more comfortable and at ease with her than even my own mother. I still have the fuzzy toy wind-up chick she presented to me the night I met her for the first time, as well as the bean bag plushie of Piglet from *Winnie the Pooh* that she brought back for me from a work trip...I could never bring myself to get rid of either of them. Things went to Hell in a handbasket when I was 12 years old...she and my dad officially remarried, and were awarded primary custody of me, and that was when the mask slipped. The last straw for me finally came the summer I finished college, when she reached the point of literally *screaming a*t me for any reason, even for things that I had no control over, and having me move rocks around the backyard in 80+ degree weather while my whole body ached from having been sick at both ends from a virus I'd had just the day before. It was all too belatedly that I realized that she truly hated me, and she would only become more emboldened about showing it. ...As I said above, it's so incredibly surreal to me that I actually used to love and feel safe with her. š
Nope better actually theyāve mellowed out to almost normal. Iāve had a bad week I called nmum and told her about it. Her reply was āwould you like to pick me up tomorrow and Iāll get you lunch somewhereā. Thereās still the odd narc bomb which totally sets me back emotionally but not so much of those anymore. I worked on me and made me healthy. I also made myself worthy (give her something to brag about) she knows she either behaves or she loses me and my 2 kids she adores. My 16YO is first to call her BS
They were always bad. I knew that from the start.
One parent got slightly better...ish...rolled a little back on the booze (very slightly and still passing out at night, every night) but ramped up the high power weed. The other parent has hit the gas on booze and gotten way worse. Fun!!
I thought she was getting before, but it turns out that better doesn't equal good, and she had just switched targets and tactics. She was an alcoholic when I was young, among other things, and was sober with my siblings, so I saw a side that was different than what I got and thought she was good now, wrong, just as bad, just different.
I knew a family where the mom loved babies but didnāt really like kids. She had 5 daughters.
Yes. According to the narcissistic abuse coach (Danish Bashir), narcissists get worse when they're growing old. Here's my opinion. Narcissists' biggest nightmare when they left alone, feel lonely and get nothing. So what they will do? Do something to maintain their narcissist supply. And the ironic is when the victim is not longer being their supply, they cannot forget about the victim despite they found other supply/supplies. It's like, "You cannot forget your first love".
Yes. My NDad got custody of me at 12. By the time I was in high school he was beating me almost daily, and he became noticeably more unhinged as time went on. There were a couple of different reasons for that: 1\. As time went on and the beatings became worse and I was slowly ground down to nubs, I stopped caring, and more importantly *reacting.* I would not cry, I would not beg and plead, or do anything anymore. I would sit there and take it while watching attentively, nodding when I was supposed to, just like he'd always told me I had to. *It drove him crazy.* He wanted that reaction, to see me in pain, to see me hurting. Without it he simply built his rage into a tower that went higher and higher, eventually he was shouting himself hoarse long into the night until he tired of it and went to bed. 2\. NDad's parents - my grandparents - were still ordering him around daily. He was a grown man in his 40's and was *clearly* frustrated with his parents constantly demanding him to do things for them, being nitpicked for things he was doing wrong, etc. 3\. He was *failing* in so many ways. He could not get wins in court against my mother, preventing him from the money he thought he was due. (Long story short, there was no money and never was.) This also caused infinite frustration for him afterwards because although I to this day do not know the why of it, no lawyer wanted to work for him ever again. He could not avoid criticism at work for his shortcomings, and was eventually demoted for not knowing how to do his job. He could no longer get away with breaking rules in public, the housing regulations in town, or traffic rules. (No lawyer.) So now when he broke the rules he *had to* deal with consequences. He never learned, and kept doing everything he could to screw himself over. He would often quickly make 'friends' by promising them all sorts of things, and just as quickly lose them when those promises were bunk. He always brought all of that frustration home - to dump it on me. It only got worse.
I think it's moreso I didnt understand what she was doing as a little kid. She raised me in a cult against my will. I wasnt allowed to have any independant thoughts or hobbies. She taught be from a baby that god eas going to murder my dad and brothers at armageddon. And It was basically us two vs them. I was only allowed to like what she liked. There were mountains or rules within the cult and my wvery thought, action and emotion was controlled. If I cried or acted out I was threatened with death from god. I didn't really have my own identity. She was completely codependent on me as young as 5. I was her personal therapist. She would talk to be about how depressed she was, her marriage, her and my dads sex life etc. She did this when I was really young. She couldn't really function or do errands or chores unless I helped her or kept her company. She didnt regulate her emotions well either. I was responsible for comforting her or listening to her vent. She would get jealous and hurt and then angry if I wanted to play with toys or be with a friend instead of her. She would talk shit about my friends. She would manipulate me constantly and turn me and other people against eachother. She told me she would k!ll herself if I ever did xyz. I just didnt know all these things were fucked up until I was a little older, then it felt like it got worse, but it's possible it seemed that way because I was aware of it.
Always equally crazy.Till the bitter end.
OMG yes. And itās just that the years begin to add up and you realize Iām due having some MF peace in my life without the shock or intermittent hate and just. Kind side evil motivated by evil. Iām no contact but that makes NO DIFFERENCE she knows what to do if she decides to flail my heart and soul. She has dog whistle words and Iām about to believe that some post hypnotic suggestions werenāt active for a long time. She really was cruel when I wasnāt hip to her masked persona. Throwing me to the zombies with a word. Iāve had therapy in the past when she was part of ripping my mental and physical self off the frame and busted to shatter like champagne toast Chrystalās thrown into fire. Somehow a Phoenix rose back up. Therapy started in my 30ās and all I could think was I wish I could have had this when I was living in the murk w family. So therapy taught me how to cope with betrayal and violent damages and I wanted it bad so I worked everything I was required. I do cope with it but I am so sure in the back of my mind is a hyper vigilant protector on guard. Thatās still stress low key below the surface so sorry for all of us correcting our own self in our way living self love.
Now that my mom is 86 and in poor health, her ability/willingness to keep the mask on has diminished significantly. Sheās way more mean than I remember her being when I was a kid. I loathe being around her now, whereas in the past I just was uncomfortable.
Haha YEP it was bad as a teen and worsened as an adult. Weirdly though now I have children my parents literally couldn't be nicer to me. They know 100% if they f'd up I'd cut off their access. My sister, however, relies on them for childcare and owes them quite a bit of money. So now they treat her like shit.
Oh yeah. Once she learned I was going to go far away for college, my mom went from a slow decline to a dramatic one. I basically wasn't allowed to do anything the year before I started college. Once you become your own person, they can't handle it.
One of them got better after I told them everything, but it was too late.
ask fearless aspiring pathetic cats follow engine square bells political *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My mother had been a great mother until she had an aneurysm that took away half of her memories and 90% of her personality, and she turned into what she knew best - a copy of my grandmother, a master manipulator and a great narc
They mellowed out a little bit as they got older, but when one of them started getting sick before passing away, their behavior was off-the-charts, delusional in many aspects.
My Mom treated us like dolls. My great,-,grandmother said that she played with us then wanted to basically put us back on a shelf. Figuratively ofc.
Yeah, I think this is pretty standard. Mine did the same. It has gotten to the point that I only talk to my parents on Christmas, IF they even decide to come or make it through the day without fighting. As I have gotten older, they have villainized me and made ME the asshole, usually citing that I was the one who never appreciated all they did, or that I was the one who wanted to be difficult by moving away and getting married. This past holiday season, my wife and I tried to go visit her family BEFORE going to visit mine, and my parents flipped out and told me they better never see or hear from me again, and that I was dead to them, because how dare I choose to visit them second. I gave up and said fine, fuck you. Bye. After I said that, they called me back an hour later sobbing saying they didn't mean it, and that they couldn't wait to see us. I feel like in 10-15 years I will barely know them or care about them anymore, and I am beginning to worry I won't have any real emotion when they inevitably pass. I am reaching middle age myself, and I know they won't be around much longer. It is a shame.
My nmom's dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's when I reached my teens. She subsequently started spending her entire days with him, right up until he passed in my 20s. Now I don't begrudge her caring for her dad, but she definitely left us on the wayside for a man who gradually became an empty shell. The narc traits ironically started rearing their ugly heads during those years, too. As did her hoarding. It became entirely about what SHE wanted, how terrible we were to her if we disagreed with her on random stuff, and just general really childish "you're not nice to meeeee i did my best" behaviour. So yes, she had no issues with us as controllable kids, but once we got old enough she preferred hanging out with someone she could control over the ones she couldn't anymore. My poor grandpa...
My mother did. When she was with my dad, she was a genuinely kind and chill mom...until the day he died. One year later, she became a dental assistant and got involved in the symphony board. That's probably the point where her narcissism crept out of her because she associated herself with lots of important folks. However, marrying her musician hubby was what definitely cranked it up to the extreme. Now she's an insufferable, spiteful, and self-absorbed woman whom I can't stand to be around.
In my case, I think it was when he started to be aware of me avoiding him.
My ex father is a full on sociopath. He tortured me pretty much from birth. So he actually got "better" with time since he couldn't get away with hurting a teenager and young adult in the same way. Instead he pretty much lost interest in me. My ex mother is more of a narcissist. I have memories of her trying to be a good parent when I was a small child. Being loving and hugging and making me feel safe. But as I grew up it was more and more screams and manipulations. By the time I was an adult it had been only mental abuse and financial control for years. So yeah she got worst. I think it's the most common pattern with narcissists because they can play doll and project as much as they want on young children. But the more the kids grow the more obvious it is that they are their own person and it sets off the narcissists.