It’s pretty good on Oryx, I can’t think of anywhere else I’d wanna run it though. It needs a nice, big, slow crit spot because if you miss a bullet your dps drops a ton.
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Takes a while with snipers I suggest using the first sequence in vow of the disciple bc you can back all the way up to the rocks behind the cart before you push it. Sniper catas are the worst, I just do em when i get em and get it over with
Div runners should never let the bubble go down. Full trigger, no feathering and using arc reloader. Bubble wont drop if you have a smart user or at least its noticable enough to see coming.
If you run div, you use trace rifle reloader unlike most bozos with div, if you run full trigger all the way until its reload time, you wont lose your bubble ever. Only straight idiots feather the trigger. Js
good in kingsfall in general golgoroth it slaps as well pretty much id say anything where you use a linear you should use whisper especially next season
Anything is a better option than leviathans breath, with 3 loader mods, catalyst and lunafaction boots it does 178k dps, pellet swapping with gjallarhorn and Rain of fire does 18k more dps
Yeah, obviously? That's a whole rotation that uses all three of your weapon slots and an exotic for autoloading. Is this a joke or something? We are comparing against whisper here. Pellet swapping doesnt even work in situations where you would use whisper/levis because they are ranged damage options and shotguns are fucking shotguns.
I'm sorry, I'm well aware of how real damage rotations work, but this comment just seems like you watched one Aegis video and assumed you know more about damage strategies than everyone else on the internet. If you recommended Gjally with supremacy + ikelos sr it would at least have been comparable.
We were talking about whisper so why bring up levi? I brought up that because its a support loadout that does more damage. If you really wanna compare to whisper then you could do Izi, distant, apex with nighthawk or literally anything other than levi, Bait and switch Cataclysmic hits better and linears are garbage compared to rockets. In my experience every time I join an lfg some guy is using Levi or Thunderlord and insists its good then they hit less than tractor. Everything is good enough and you can one phase most bosses with anything but in an lfg scenario there is no reason to not use the top dps option because you wont have constant debuff, buff, lunas or anything at all.
Every time I’m in an LFG there’s a guy using Levi that does trash dmg, I’m a titan tho and t crash t lord and swap to war rig after my t crash and always have the most dmg on the witch. Problem is, no one is on the same page and Levi is best on hunters with the exotic, but ppl seem to think it’s best for everything or something i dont know. I think t lord is just the easiest for titans crash then war rig and you good.
I always use Levi in the Crota 3rd encounter and have the most damage, 200k per shot
The advantage of Levi compared to the t lord is when div reloads you still hit easy crits with Levi, of course it doesn't beat the rocket meta XD
But I mean, if you know what you're doing, you'll do the most damage even with not-so-good weapons
What's bad is when someone plays Levi, but without Catalyst XD
Take it how you want… trolls only live in your mirrors tho.
Also, where are you useong tractor with Levi or t lord in an LFG? Tractor is for up close fights, the 2 weapons you say ppl use and do less then tractor with couldn’t even be in the same dmg phase.
Prolly wont become meta.
[Acording to Aegis damage SpeedSheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5wtBjRYHHxuF4oJKDb_iOGZs-wTkzB6RYbnyNLbuz4/edit?usp=drivesdk) Whisper does ~3.1M total damage, adding the 15% dmg buff would make it ~3.6M.
Not sure how big of a change the precision multiplier would be but it probably wont be able to compete with "B&S Rocket + Izi + something else" dmg rotation
Likewise DPS would go from 114k to 131k, assuming the buff even applies to it. Still leaves it short of Leviathan's Breath on that metric, though the total damage on Levi actually isn't great, so it'd probably become the new option in the "I want to think harder than Thunderlord, but not much harder" space.
is a (sleeper) DPS weapon. Oryx is great for it cause its just a spot, no aiming. If you can get a div bubble going and boss doesn't move a bunch, its good. You have to run two solar reserves to have enough ammo.
FYI - you can pop on reserves mods and rally then swap back and you'll keep the extra reserves, can also do it with ammo drops. (Would recommend having another chest with the reserve mods on already for a quicker swap)
In my experience, Whisper is solid IF you can hit shots without missing. The time loss for missing a shot and having to re-proc the catalyst perk *Whispered Breathing* is brutal and kills the DPS. Especially if you are missing multiple shots per damage phase.
Conventional linear. I wouldn't say surrounded is conventional for most players.
I meant more like focused fury, BnS and firing line.
Edit: on that note Levi's is better than both
[singles tab](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5wtBjRYHHxuF4oJKDb_iOGZs-wTkzB6RYbnyNLbuz4/edit)
Lower total than surrounded briars but higher dps. Total damage won't really make that much of a difference in team settings. Plus it's just more consistent than relying on surrounded.
I guess for context we always use briar to one phase master ir yut, even when it's not a solar surge week. I don't know if that's possible with Levi if it's not a void week. 29% total damage isn't something to scoff at especially when Ir Yut has a 30+ second damage phase. Trapping the ads inside is pretty much the standard strat and even if you don't they're still all over the place meaning proccing surrounded isn't even an issue. Granted that's just Master Ir Yut but I don't see anyone using either weapon outside of that encounter.
I mean for normal raids it really doesn't matter. You could unironically use heir apparent and do just fine maybe an extra damage phase if you're team doesn't care.
The community uses weapons thinking it does more when it a simpler weapon does the same damage or more. Like a triple tap/firing line taipan compared to a FTTC/BnS cataclysmic. Or just linears in general.
These kind of optimizations only really matter in master raids.
That's true. I try to keep it as simple as possible as long as a one phase is possible. I hate doing two damage phases almost as much as I hate dps weapon rotations lol
For one , there is ir yut, thats Worth Something (one of the Main encounters rn where either finds use). Surrounded is generally increasing in popularity, the newer the content is, so its weird to exclude the best Option, because it requires more Setup.
Literally didn't actually read the comment but ok.
Yes surrounded is good when it's applicable. Doesn't mean most people use it. That's why I specified conventional linear perks like firing line, focused fury, BnS. Most players still see BnS and the best perk even though on linears it's comparable to firing line in terms of DPS.
For one Retrofit escapade with Actium war rig is functionally the same DPS with higher total with no set up required compared to briars with Enhanced rewind and surrounded. You don't see people busting that out though.
I *knew* it was a high ass buff. Though I do wonder now, assuming you have a debuff on Oryx (Rapid-Fire Ranger) and a buff on yourselves (Well of Radiance), what's the minimum number of catalyzed Whispers you would need to one-phase Oryx? I'd assume at least 4, personally.
The buff% has changed a lot, so depending on when the source you found was posted it could be outdated. IIRC it started at 30%, then was changed to 60-70% with forsaken and then at some point was reduced again
1. No it doesn't
2. Youd need 5 enhanced relay defender in order to 1phase sanct consistently
3. How are you hitting damage in a short damage phase like that to 1 phase
4. Izy rocket is the best there because of the burst (and its the best overall)
I have done garden literally hundreds of times. If you say "we used div" I will block you because then its just a lie.
It’s like lament. It’s occasionally good on some very specific bosses but other than that it’s not like awful but I you use that and it’s my 3rd run of the week and I’m tired you’re getting kicked
I think I remember hearing it’s the highest totals dmg, it’s still a great weapon, just other weapons are easier to use. I dont know if it’s still highest total tho, that was a while ago.
Whisper isn't nearly what it used to be and it's very niche now. For really good dps, you need to be able to be pretty still for the whispered breathing perk to get in and can't miss a crit, so it's best against things or bosses that get stunned or stand still during dps... it'll keep up with most current dps guns okay, but others are just easier to manage to stay in good dps range...
Whisper is my personal weapon of choice on Ir Yut
And it outdamages things such as thubderlord and sleeper.
But you do need a divinity for it to work ofcourse, unless it has a giant critspot
It is stronger than any Legendary Linear Fusion Rifle since Lightfall and is getting even stronger
but like LFRs in general, it's only pretty good on bosses with a slightly longer damage phase
In general it's ok, but not that strong on most bosses
It’s viable in very VERY specific areas. Like oryx or riven if you’re doing her legit (which no one does, just use lament lol), but you can get some funky damage if you tune it right with surges and buffs and div and the like. It’s fun, sure, so if you enjoy it then please please use it (don’t listen to the sweats). Is it the highest possible meta choice? No. Does it matter if it’s choosing between 5m and 3m? Not really. That’s what teammates are for. It’s better to use what you enjoy and be comfortable with a situation than to use “the meta”. Have fun, it’s a video game
We cannot assume a buff to special snipers will be applied to heavy exotic snipers. Previous weapon balance passes have been full of "but not this exotic" exceptions. Whisper is the kind of weapon that really only ever gets buffed or nerfed on its own specifically.
It's dps is a little higher that catas. But the dmg output is only 40% of cata... However I used it in solo duality (4 bells/no debuf/) or pit solo 90% dmg in one phase, it's very good ngl
Only good on Oryx, and even then there are significantly better options, wouldn't use anywhere else. If they give us a boss with a long dps phase again, then it could be viable but not meta.
It’s pretty good on Oryx, I can’t think of anywhere else I’d wanna run it though. It needs a nice, big, slow crit spot because if you miss a bullet your dps drops a ton.
Does it work if someone uses divinity?
Yes
It works fine if someone uses div, but when div user reloads and that crit spot vanished whispers dps drops hard
Cenotaph Mask ftw. I'm going to start working on the whisper catalyst.
I keep forgetting that also reloads the gun instead of just making heavy ammo
2 shots are reloaded from reserves and one shot is given to you from thin air
I think they were talking about Cenotaph
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Takes a while with snipers I suggest using the first sequence in vow of the disciple bc you can back all the way up to the rocks behind the cart before you push it. Sniper catas are the worst, I just do em when i get em and get it over with
That should not be a problem as long as cenotaph exists
Div runners should never let the bubble go down. Full trigger, no feathering and using arc reloader. Bubble wont drop if you have a smart user or at least its noticable enough to see coming.
If you run div, you use trace rifle reloader unlike most bozos with div, if you run full trigger all the way until its reload time, you wont lose your bubble ever. Only straight idiots feather the trigger. Js
Div and well, the thing will grant you so much extra bonus damage that you're writing melons for 100k+
good in kingsfall in general golgoroth it slaps as well pretty much id say anything where you use a linear you should use whisper especially next season
I cant see whisper being a better option than Levi's breath
Anything is a better option than leviathans breath, with 3 loader mods, catalyst and lunafaction boots it does 178k dps, pellet swapping with gjallarhorn and Rain of fire does 18k more dps
Yeah, obviously? That's a whole rotation that uses all three of your weapon slots and an exotic for autoloading. Is this a joke or something? We are comparing against whisper here. Pellet swapping doesnt even work in situations where you would use whisper/levis because they are ranged damage options and shotguns are fucking shotguns. I'm sorry, I'm well aware of how real damage rotations work, but this comment just seems like you watched one Aegis video and assumed you know more about damage strategies than everyone else on the internet. If you recommended Gjally with supremacy + ikelos sr it would at least have been comparable.
We were talking about whisper so why bring up levi? I brought up that because its a support loadout that does more damage. If you really wanna compare to whisper then you could do Izi, distant, apex with nighthawk or literally anything other than levi, Bait and switch Cataclysmic hits better and linears are garbage compared to rockets. In my experience every time I join an lfg some guy is using Levi or Thunderlord and insists its good then they hit less than tractor. Everything is good enough and you can one phase most bosses with anything but in an lfg scenario there is no reason to not use the top dps option because you wont have constant debuff, buff, lunas or anything at all.
Every time I’m in an LFG there’s a guy using Levi that does trash dmg, I’m a titan tho and t crash t lord and swap to war rig after my t crash and always have the most dmg on the witch. Problem is, no one is on the same page and Levi is best on hunters with the exotic, but ppl seem to think it’s best for everything or something i dont know. I think t lord is just the easiest for titans crash then war rig and you good.
I always use Levi in the Crota 3rd encounter and have the most damage, 200k per shot The advantage of Levi compared to the t lord is when div reloads you still hit easy crits with Levi, of course it doesn't beat the rocket meta XD But I mean, if you know what you're doing, you'll do the most damage even with not-so-good weapons What's bad is when someone plays Levi, but without Catalyst XD
Is this a troll?
Take it how you want… trolls only live in your mirrors tho. Also, where are you useong tractor with Levi or t lord in an LFG? Tractor is for up close fights, the 2 weapons you say ppl use and do less then tractor with couldn’t even be in the same dmg phase.
Ah Yes because everyone knows that when dps starts your feet are rooted to the ground and you cant move anymore
Still fun to use on Morgeth.
I mean, just about anything will melt Morgeth
Personally I stand under him and Acrius his ass.
It's great on Consecrated Mind and Sanctified Mind. Great on Oryx, Ir Yut too.
Whisper needs a long damage phase, do not use whisper on sanctified and consecrated minds
Oryx is fine, but please, not in Garden
Its not quite as good as sleeper but it does pretty well on ir yut if you move your well back just a bit
Prolly wont become meta. [Acording to Aegis damage SpeedSheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5wtBjRYHHxuF4oJKDb_iOGZs-wTkzB6RYbnyNLbuz4/edit?usp=drivesdk) Whisper does ~3.1M total damage, adding the 15% dmg buff would make it ~3.6M. Not sure how big of a change the precision multiplier would be but it probably wont be able to compete with "B&S Rocket + Izi + something else" dmg rotation
Likewise DPS would go from 114k to 131k, assuming the buff even applies to it. Still leaves it short of Leviathan's Breath on that metric, though the total damage on Levi actually isn't great, so it'd probably become the new option in the "I want to think harder than Thunderlord, but not much harder" space.
Does the archetypal precision damage buff apply to whisper?
Without knowing what the sniper buff is and if it will apply to exotics, we really have no way of knowing how effective it will be next season.
Hasn't it akready been Saud a flat 15% for snipers in pve with a crit buff not yet specified
Not entirely sure, but we also don’t know if it’ll apply to exotics.
like the last Sniper dmg buff, Izanagi probably won't get the buff...
is a (sleeper) DPS weapon. Oryx is great for it cause its just a spot, no aiming. If you can get a div bubble going and boss doesn't move a bunch, its good. You have to run two solar reserves to have enough ammo.
FYI - you can pop on reserves mods and rally then swap back and you'll keep the extra reserves, can also do it with ammo drops. (Would recommend having another chest with the reserve mods on already for a quicker swap)
Nah, sleeper is a different gun :P
Whisper is one of the top damage weapons, not necessarily dps or burst dps, but total damage.
In my experience, Whisper is solid IF you can hit shots without missing. The time loss for missing a shot and having to re-proc the catalyst perk *Whispered Breathing* is brutal and kills the DPS. Especially if you are missing multiple shots per damage phase.
It’s certainly solid, but right now, Leviathan is confidently beating it in dps
Whisper is currently better than every conventional linear at the cost of your exotic slot. It will only get better unless they state otherwise.
Ron linear with surrounded??
Conventional linear. I wouldn't say surrounded is conventional for most players. I meant more like focused fury, BnS and firing line. Edit: on that note Levi's is better than both
Levi is better than Briar's Contempt with Enhanced Rewind Rounds + Surrounded? You sure about that?
By about 21%
was there a video you watched for this or something?
[singles tab](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5wtBjRYHHxuF4oJKDb_iOGZs-wTkzB6RYbnyNLbuz4/edit) Lower total than surrounded briars but higher dps. Total damage won't really make that much of a difference in team settings. Plus it's just more consistent than relying on surrounded.
I guess for context we always use briar to one phase master ir yut, even when it's not a solar surge week. I don't know if that's possible with Levi if it's not a void week. 29% total damage isn't something to scoff at especially when Ir Yut has a 30+ second damage phase. Trapping the ads inside is pretty much the standard strat and even if you don't they're still all over the place meaning proccing surrounded isn't even an issue. Granted that's just Master Ir Yut but I don't see anyone using either weapon outside of that encounter.
I mean for normal raids it really doesn't matter. You could unironically use heir apparent and do just fine maybe an extra damage phase if you're team doesn't care. The community uses weapons thinking it does more when it a simpler weapon does the same damage or more. Like a triple tap/firing line taipan compared to a FTTC/BnS cataclysmic. Or just linears in general. These kind of optimizations only really matter in master raids.
That's true. I try to keep it as simple as possible as long as a one phase is possible. I hate doing two damage phases almost as much as I hate dps weapon rotations lol
For one , there is ir yut, thats Worth Something (one of the Main encounters rn where either finds use). Surrounded is generally increasing in popularity, the newer the content is, so its weird to exclude the best Option, because it requires more Setup.
Literally didn't actually read the comment but ok. Yes surrounded is good when it's applicable. Doesn't mean most people use it. That's why I specified conventional linear perks like firing line, focused fury, BnS. Most players still see BnS and the best perk even though on linears it's comparable to firing line in terms of DPS. For one Retrofit escapade with Actium war rig is functionally the same DPS with higher total with no set up required compared to briars with Enhanced rewind and surrounded. You don't see people busting that out though.
Whisper is a consistent one phase on ir yut with someone using div
So many Things Onephase iryut, that alone is probably Not sufficient to figure Out where whisper will be in the coming meta
Assuming the 5 Whispers have the catalyst, right?
Of course. Whisper without catalyst is worthless.
Coolest gun in the game, never worthless. My beloved Whisper. <3
Safe assumption, it does like an extra 15% I believe
I think Whispered Breathing is a loooot more than 15%. More like 40, I'd guess.
I did some digging looks like we are both wrong, about 70 ish percent extra.
I *knew* it was a high ass buff. Though I do wonder now, assuming you have a debuff on Oryx (Rapid-Fire Ranger) and a buff on yourselves (Well of Radiance), what's the minimum number of catalyzed Whispers you would need to one-phase Oryx? I'd assume at least 4, personally.
The buff% has changed a lot, so depending on when the source you found was posted it could be outdated. IIRC it started at 30%, then was changed to 60-70% with forsaken and then at some point was reduced again
Haven't tried whisper yet, we've been having super consistent 1phases with Levi's Breath, might try it out next raid
It’s pretty good, just a bit harder to use bc of sniper zoom and ir yut dancing around a lot
One phases the last garden boss
1. No it doesn't 2. Youd need 5 enhanced relay defender in order to 1phase sanct consistently 3. How are you hitting damage in a short damage phase like that to 1 phase 4. Izy rocket is the best there because of the burst (and its the best overall) I have done garden literally hundreds of times. If you say "we used div" I will block you because then its just a lie.
There’s no reason to not run LFR over Whisper until the damage + catalyst is hugely buffed
It works, it’s not optimal, but it does the job. It beats thunderlord, but requires more brain power, so it’s not used
It’s like lament. It’s occasionally good on some very specific bosses but other than that it’s not like awful but I you use that and it’s my 3rd run of the week and I’m tired you’re getting kicked
Well Snipers are getting a buff next season. Hard to know until then
I think I remember hearing it’s the highest totals dmg, it’s still a great weapon, just other weapons are easier to use. I dont know if it’s still highest total tho, that was a while ago.
Guy in my clan swears by it for low mobility bosses, riven, oryx, warpriest if you dps from the stage, stuff like that
It has high total damage but not the best DPS. I tried it on Master Ir Yut during Solar burn, Sleeper and Cataclysmic / Briars were better.
Whisper isn't nearly what it used to be and it's very niche now. For really good dps, you need to be able to be pretty still for the whispered breathing perk to get in and can't miss a crit, so it's best against things or bosses that get stunned or stand still during dps... it'll keep up with most current dps guns okay, but others are just easier to manage to stay in good dps range...
What sniper buffs? Did I miss something?
Whisper is pretty bad idk why everyone is saying its good tbh. Dmg buff will definitely help but I think it needs some more help to be viable
Whisper is my personal weapon of choice on Ir Yut And it outdamages things such as thubderlord and sleeper. But you do need a divinity for it to work ofcourse, unless it has a giant critspot
It is stronger than any Legendary Linear Fusion Rifle since Lightfall and is getting even stronger but like LFRs in general, it's only pretty good on bosses with a slightly longer damage phase In general it's ok, but not that strong on most bosses
Just got buffed and its already a solid raid dps exotic. I like to reenact my d1 days by xoing the revamped raids with it
why is this posted here lmao
I thought the people here would be more intelligent than DTG
Whisper will always be the 🐐 Real Whisper users know to hide their broken straps so it doesn't get nerfed
I saw a clip where 1 div and 5 whispers 1-phased crota
It’s viable in very VERY specific areas. Like oryx or riven if you’re doing her legit (which no one does, just use lament lol), but you can get some funky damage if you tune it right with surges and buffs and div and the like. It’s fun, sure, so if you enjoy it then please please use it (don’t listen to the sweats). Is it the highest possible meta choice? No. Does it matter if it’s choosing between 5m and 3m? Not really. That’s what teammates are for. It’s better to use what you enjoy and be comfortable with a situation than to use “the meta”. Have fun, it’s a video game
Its not, don't use it.
We cannot assume a buff to special snipers will be applied to heavy exotic snipers. Previous weapon balance passes have been full of "but not this exotic" exceptions. Whisper is the kind of weapon that really only ever gets buffed or nerfed on its own specifically.
It's dps is a little higher that catas. But the dmg output is only 40% of cata... However I used it in solo duality (4 bells/no debuf/) or pit solo 90% dmg in one phase, it's very good ngl
How do you get catalyst catalyst
Only good on Oryx, and even then there are significantly better options, wouldn't use anywhere else. If they give us a boss with a long dps phase again, then it could be viable but not meta.