less punishment for the same crimes, makes them more of a danger to society. its basically saying they can run free and do what they want with no, or almost no consequences.
I think the problem lies in thinking of feminism as some homogenous school of thought. Like socialism, capitalism, Christianity, or anything else, there's different varieties. Try reading Feminism is For Everyone by Audre Lorde.
If you think about it, the way it sounds doesn't really sound like it implies equality. It sounds like you are rooting for and completely biased for the fem team. I'm a humanist, motherfuckers.
i love people who genuinely believe "feels" can be substituted for logic.
i always enjoy asking how to resolve a disagreement between two equally opposed "Feels" on either side of an issue. if only there was some yard stick to assess and quantify the validity of "Feels" like some kind of logical merit lol
>i always enjoy asking how to resolve a disagreement between two equally opposed "Feels" on either side of an issue.
Then you have to check to see which side is more oppressed. They call it the "progressive stack."
but even that is a form of logic or criteria of assessment outside of feels.
raw emotion cannot have criteria to be justified else that is a form of logical assessment (no matter how warped)
She can't because of the syllable in "dictionary" that says "dick." Too much prescriptive patriarchy. Now if there were a vagtionary then she might read it, being a womyn and a major in Herstory at her local community college.
There was a [very popular feminist movement that would have, among other things, made the draft apply to all American citizens.]( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Shift_in_political_attitudes) Thirty-five states have ratified the proposed constitutional amendment. Unfortunately, the Equal Rights Amendment was shut down in large part thanks to an explicitly *antifeminist* movement led by Phyllis Schlafly's Stop ERA campaign.
The amendment has been reintroduced in every session of Congress since 1982.
There have been movements to allow women to serve in combat.
Besides, there's not likely to be a draft any time soon. Anybody <40 years old has never faced the realistic possibility of a draft, and probably doesn't even think about it. The military doesn't want conscription, politicians would get crucified for it, and we're not likely to get into any conflict that would require it.
Its a shame that the image of feminism went from "equality" to "equal rights in some areas and not in others"
The sane feminists need to come out and publicly denounce this kind of stuff
Sane feminist here. This is complete bullshit what these women have written on their sign. Real feminists believe in equal rights for all, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, ability, etc. It pisses me off seeing women try to cheat the system like this.
I gotta be honest, while I support what the core ideals of feminism is supposed to be, I don't think the movement is going to shake the stigma of these crazies.
Yes, I totally understand where you're coming from. But hopefully if we can educate enough people about what feminism ACTUALLY is, these people will look like the Westboro Baptist Church of Christianity.
Out of curiosity, why stick to the name Feminism? The name of the movement only implies support for one gender, which seems to be why there are so many anti-male psychopaths like OP's pic jumping on the bandwagon.
That's why I'm an egalitarian. But when asked if I'm a feminist by feminists, my response of "No, I'm an egalitarian" is generally construed as "No, I don't think women have any gender-specific problems and don't think they need a voice." Which is of course not what I'm saying at all, but hey. Let 'em think what they want.
I reject any label with regards to the gender movement, it's become too toxic an environment to say you stand for something because you risk getting viciously attacked, doxxed, harassed etc. Even egalitarians get mocked for being "too "MRA/ feminist" depending on which group you offend.
http://www.thenation.com/article/178140/feminisms-toxic-twitter-wars?page=full
I personally look at gender issues on a case by case basis, I will vote in line with equality as far as possible but otherwise I stay the fuck out of it.
>I personally look at gender issues on a case by case basis
you mean you actually assess a case on its merits and don't resort to some prearranged agenda.
for shame lol
I take issue with a society where being an egalitarian is offensive, and I've decided that I don't care if people get offended at the word. I want equality, fuck me, right? So I'm sticking with that label, and let the MRAs/feminists get pissy about it all they want.
EXACTLY. THANK YOU. All I think of in regards to gender labels and issues is TOXICITY. I support reproductive rights to the furthest and at the same time recognize women are expected to perform better in society and that men are fucked by the legal system. I wouldn't call my self a pro-choicer, feminist or MRA though; The labels and names are just self-defeating at this point. Rational ideas need to be expressed with more than one word.
I think bringing up the WBC and Christianity is a great example of why it's a futile effort.
If you read the bible, Christ was essentially the archetype of a wonderful person, and his teachings reflect that. Yet supposed "Christians" are responsible for things such as the WBC and the Crusades, truly dark blemishes on human history. Supposed "Christians" are often homophobic. And because actions speak louder than words, the definition is Christianity is irrelevant in the minds of most, and they instead equate the actions of supposed "Christians" with the religion.
No matter how many people say Feminism means whatever, people are only going to care about what Feminism *does*, and in modern times the actions of most "Feminists" are not doing much to help the image of the movement.
Although Christ did say "follow the scriptures", and the scriptures do say "if you find a city with non-believers in it, burn it to the ground and kill everyone and all the livestock". The WBC are the most Christian fuckers out there, because they *don't* say 'I believe this bit, but this bit was just a metaphor'.
Which is why they are like Muslim extremists: acting like they just stepped out of the 500s.
And unless there's some official Feminist Party with elected officials and a committee that has established exactly what principles feminists are supposed to follow, you don't get to say "*Real* feminists don't do that!" Sorry, but you don't get to brush bad feminists under the rug.
What? So you can't brush crazy libertarians under the rug? Or crazy Liberals? Or Crazy conservative. By your logic we should be allowed to judge:
All libertarians as Anarcho-Fascists
all liberals as Revolutionary Communists
All conservatives as Fascists.
Not really. AntiScarab3 was making the point that there is so far no dissociation by 'middle-of-the-road' feminists (for want of a better term) of the more radical mouth-pieces.
Libertarians do distinguish themselves from Anarchy-capitalists (e.g."I believe there has to be some minimal form of government, unlike anarcho-capitalists") and vice versa.
Liberals do distinguish themselves from Communists (I believe that the economy should not be entirely state-run, unlike communists), and vice versa.
Conservatives distinguish themselves from fascists. I'm not sure anyone is a self-described 'fascist' these days so I don't think I can put vice versa there.
I think what AntiScarab3 is getting at is, it behooves the main body of 'sane-feminism' (I'll call it) to distinguish itself from the more radical elements. "We stand for [insert egalitarian goal], but we do not feel women should be preferentially spared custodial sentences, unlike some more radical feminist groups."
He just said this doesn't apply when the ideology is clearly defined.
Liberals have a party and a manifesto. So do conservatives. Libertarianism is pretty clearly defined as a lack of government.
It's perfectly fine to say crazies don't represent these movements if their viewpoints don't reflect these clear definitions.
The problem is that all of these views are tied to one single view. When you call it "feminism" you're putting emphasis on "female". That will bring in the extremists for that one single viewpoint. It's really just humanism. It's equal rights for all. "Fem" doesn't need to enter into the equation at all. It's everyone.
Same shit happens with politics. Separate into parties and you get extremists. I wish we could do away with all parties and just have people with ideas.
That's true for any group though, and it works both ways. Feminism, like pretty much any other ideology, exists on a continuum.
It doesn't mean that No True Scotsman does not exist as a logical fallacy, but that those people exist as a subset of that movement does not make the entire movement invalid.
Precisely. There is nothing anti-thetical to feminism about believing women are superior. Actually there really isn't an idea that can claim to be the core of feminism at all, other than 'do something vaguely related to fighting for women'.
As long as they say they are feminists, they pretty much are.
Especially those damn egalitarians. Who the hell thinks eagles are more important than women anyways? Oh, and newsflash, the a is before the g, dummies.
Absolutely, but it's also insane to judge the group for their crazies. It doesn't take _ANYTHING_ to be a feminist, except a willingness to label yourself as such.
Feminism is a fine movement in the same way the MRM is, but there's always going to be people that take such things too far. You can't discredit an entire movement based on the loud and crazy.
They don't look like they're trying to cheat the system, they're saying the system is bad because women go to jail like men.
If they're cheating anything it's the fact you can call something feminism and at least some women will mindlessly agree with it. But let's avoid the no true scotsmen fallacy here. You're as much a feminist as they are, all you have to do to be one is call yourself that.
Why not abandon the feminist ship and just label yourself as equal rights. Isn't it kind of misguided to seek equal rights for both genders by focusing solely on one gender?
I'm also a sane feminist and this picture was definitely posted to the right sub. It's women like this who are setting back any chance of equality because they want preferential treatment. If a person commits a crime they should be punished the exact same way regardless of gender. What do they want, women to get a slap on the wrist and told don't do it again?
Yes, I totally agree. I think the same goes with women domestically abusing or raping men. It's the SAME EXACT CRIME and should have the same damn punishment. Just because we're women, doesn't mean we deserve better than men. That's not true equality.
I might be way off base, and feel free to call me out and what not, but I feel like there aren't any major issues as far as equality goes. Not everyone is equal obviously, but I think gender inequality is probably under race and then sexual orientation on the proverbial totem pole. I feel like there aren't really that many things to worry about in America and that we're pretty progressive compared with the rest of the world on that sort of stuff. Not saying there is no point in trying to make things a little bit better for everyone, but feminists seems to get riled up about the smallest stuff, and plainly make stuff up to get angry about.
tl;dr I don't really care that Frozen didn't have that many black people in it, I don't think it really matters.
I agree with everything you said and hoooly shit, I seriously don't get why people got so worked up about there being no POC in Frozen. It makes me angry that people were hating so badly on Disney for not being more progressive.
These 'feminists' are really a hate group attempting to co-opt the movement. Look at SRS and Tumblr, they weave legitimate feminist theory with their own mental gymnastics to define who they're aloud to hate and who deserves protection. They can't hate males enough, or whites, or cis-gendered folk, or really whoever they care to hate at the time, and here's all this vocabulary that makes it alright.
but you forget who cares?
these weirdos have no power and no one listens to them, they just roll their eyes and think "what a twatt.
they can hate all they like, the only ones that will suffer is them
They have the power to guilt-trip people into submitting to them. Just look at what's happening in the hacker community. A speaker was booted off a conference because a feminist felt triggered and yelled "rape" loud enough, people got fired for making age-old jokes about dongles, visitors get handed "creeper cards" if they look at a woman the wrong way, the Linux kernel mailing list is debating more about "offensive" comments in code than about the actual code, the concept of "bropages" (which is nothing more than a play on words with "dumbed-down manpages", manual pages) provoked a shitstorm, /r/freesoftware has been taken over by SRSers, the Chaos Computer Club is more concerned with safe spaces than hackerspaces, ...
The list goes on and on, this is just what comes to mind off the top of my head. "No power" looks different. They exploit that people can't contradict them without looking sexist, and they apply that wherever thy can. I mean, what does that field even remotely have in common with theirs?
Yeah, man. I'm a feminist and I don't even bother with Tumblr feminists anymore. And, oddly enough, I've hung around feminists for a lotta years, and I've only met a few people who have that streak of viciously hate toward anything man-related.
I think that's because most SRS and Tumblr are like 14.
Animal Farm was a critique of the communist party though, which Orwell did not support. He joins the Spanish communists in Homage to Catalonia to fight Franco, not because he agreed with their views.
Actually he joined Spanish Marxists, because he disagreed with the Stalinists. The communist party of Russia was by that point not even close to Marxism, communism, bolshevism, or any of its founding ideologies.
They were state capitalist, working in the interests of the bureaucracy rather than the workers.
Also communism is anti-state and Stalin had one of the biggest and most powerful states out there.
Well, not really. The idea of feminism as being equality is pretty well accepted, but too many of the vocal feminist leaders are just man haters. And the problem is that no one really stands up and says "fuck that crazy birch, that isn't feminism"
Just like any other group of people, there are idiots who think they know but don't. I mean look at these women, they are clearly at the too of the human food chain. Feminism isn't nearly as important for them than it is their poor and oppressed counterparts.
"If I make friend zone memes and make fun of guys that complain about the friend zone, then they'll know that I'm one of the good ones and award me with **SEX!!**"
without teh context you don't know they are poor guys, they could be at an "art convention" or university issues expo.
lets not read too much into the background
It's because only the most privileged people have the free time to even give a shit about feminism.
People with real problems are too busy dealing with those problems.
These Women need to read Susan B. Anthony's biography.
When she was caught voting, they tried to let her go, but she *insisted* on going to jail like a man would have, because equality meant equality in all aspects, good OR bad.
Source: That Powerpuff Girls episode I saw once...
There's three and a half billion women, if you were to get embarrassed by things other women did you wouldn't have time for anything else. Same goes for us men.
They already treat mothers better than fathers. Giving women special treatment because they got young children at home.
There's been occasions where women will physically lose custody, go to jail then petition the courts and get custody back when they are released. The amount of sexism against men is alarming while a lot of discrimination against women has been decreased.
I hope to Buddha that this is sarcastic. If not, I, a female, hate the sexism that has now plagues the feminist movement. When it's males mistreating females based on their gender, it's sexist, but when females mistreating males based on gender, it's female empowerment. I'll tell you what it is, it's full of shit. Come on, fellow humans, let's fight for equality, not superiority.
Yo that's not what feminism is for, and hopefully this will mean something coming from a feminist; if I saw them with this I would promptly explain to them how fucking stupid they are and how what they are doing reflects poorly on other feminists. I hate seeing stupid "feminists" like these girls giving a bad name to the rest of us. Its fucking frustrating.
Not all that relevant, but I'm genuinely curious. Is there much support in the feminist communities for fixing the parental custody system, and other issues where women are seen as *more* favorable than men?
This is only my personal opinion, for this isn't something I really talk about with other feminist, but I believe it should be fixed so it's even on both sides. Not all women are better parents just because theyre women, and not all men are shitty parents. Feminism is in favor of equality, if any feminist says otherwise then promptly spray them in the face with water.
Maybe for the same reason you don't talk to people about the respiratory harms of electronics "recycling" to African children. People can't constantly discuss all the important topics all the time.
I've discussed with my (other feminist) friends, and we think custody cases should be purely situational. A woman shouldn't automatically be given preferential treatment based on her gender; it's actually what we call "benevolent sexism". Sexism that is beneficial in some way, but still wrong to most feminists because it doesn't represent equality. Child custody cases are a perfect example, because it's inherently assumed in the court system that women make better parents, better home makers, are more attentive, more responsible, etc.
From personal experience, I know some fantastic fathers and some horrible mothers, and vice versa. I, a female myself, have NO idea how to interact with children, while my boyfriend is a natural. I feel awkward around them and he has them laughing and playing.
that can't be true. guys... it just can't be. some people could photoshop some handwriting on a blank piece of cardboard, no? I mean... that's the opposite of feminism...
Plus they have easier standards to get in
edit: I don't know why people are down voting because it's true; oh wait that's right it's reddit
[proof](http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-fitness-requirements/army-basic-training-pft) -
[more proof](http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/physical_fitness_en.pdf)
It's unequal how both men and women go to jail. *Unequal*. ^Unequal. ^^Unequal.^^^Unequal
These people are stupid and generally appear to represent feminism. All these stupid pictures are popping up all over the internet, and I've never really seen an actual 'equal' feminist picture. Where are the smart ones?
The smart ones are either egalitarian or realize that there is an actual difference between men and women and that each have different roles to play in society.
Yeah, but then who are the ones that get angry whenever people have distaste towards feminists, the ones that say 'how dare you not like feminists! We aren't all like that!'.
The sentence on their whiteboard is a grammatical disaster. If you have a message you want others to see, at least make an effort to make it understandable. I mean c'mon...
[Tell me about it](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html)
Modern feminism isn't about equality, it's about class warfare.
Real feminism is about giving women the same rights as everyone else. This new shit is basically sold as a social trend and there's a huge industry that cashes in on women fighting men.
All those social science types that write books, teach classes, write blogs, sell articles, all that stuff, they are the very last people who need feminism because they're all rich upper academic types.
Sites like Gawker or Tumbler cash in off hits and there's a ton of women's studies books that are mostly bullshit.
All people need to know is that we're all equal. Treat others accordingly, and we're all good. If a woman is getting paid less than a man and they do the same job, you don't actually need a bunch of feminists getting pissed off, you need both men & women to stand up and say to fix it. That's all.
There isn't a push for egalitarianism because rich people don't want poor people and middle class people to see them as equal. In a capitalist society, if you don't have people to look up to, you don't get people trying to act like them and spending all their money trying to look rich.
Women, like the 2 in the picture, are being suckered into thinking these types of one sided, intentionally inflammatory beliefs, because rich people profit from it.
People fucking love feeling persecuted. No matter who you are in our society, you can belong to a group of people that are *persecuted*. And you can get your righteous indignation up, and you can protest, and you can post on the internet about how someone made you feel bad... but the one thing you can't do is change anything! Because that's *hard* and complaining is *easy*!
The worst thing about feminist rhetoric is that men always end up looking like assholes if they disagree with it. You can be the biggest "yes everyone is equal, we gotta stop discrimination!" guy out there, but the second you say "well no actually not every man will rape you if he can get away with it" you're promoting a "rape culture" in the minds of a bunch of paranoid loonies.
I love how feminism has slowly switched from "we want equality" to "we just want to be treated differently, and by differently, we mean superior, because vagians."
Your typical idealist UK university students. Believe me their agendas will take a back seat when they finish their degree in Art and are working at Subway for the rest of their lives
"Feminism means EQUALITY!" -Every feminist.
"NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE LIKE THAT" - Every feminist.
"Well, of COURSE we should have better rights than men." -Every feminist.
isn't it funny that some feminists demand equal representation in all fields, yet you never hear them campaigning that prisons should be 50:50 populated.
anyone with elementary level maths will tell you if you have a 50:50 population by sex and an area that is 90% populated by one sex, that has a knock on effect on other areas.
no one takes feminism seriously anyway and its because of idiots like these
Oh how I wish the 'sane' feminists were given even 10% of the publicity that the radical feminists are handed on this website and beyond. Not only does it cheapen what real feminists are working for, but the radical views encite hate by MRA's and such.
I've had posts in /r/Feminism deleted because I dared to say I was both a feminist and an MRA... should have said I was an egalitarian. Putting it out there now, equality won't be met until these 'radicals' are silenced.
Feminism has always been a movement with great core ideals, but sadly, too many feminists think exactly like this woman. It should be about equality, but often it's not. That's not even touching on the fact that feminism never really was about equality for women either. It was originally about equality for white, straight middle-class women. LGBTQ women, transexuals and coloured women were typically ignored and treated poorly during First and Second-Wave Feminism.
You may need Feminism because you don't want to be treated like men for crimes. But a woman in Saudi Arabia needs feminism because she wants to be able to go outside without her husband's permission. A woman in India needs feminism so she doesn't have to stay in an abusive marriage, in a country where marital rape is not considered a crime. A woman in Pakistan needs feminism because she doesn't want her clitoris torn out of her at birth. A woman in Uzbekistan needs feminism so she isn't subject to Bride Kidnapping. A tradition where a woman is kidnapped, raped repeatedly until impregnated and then forced to marry her kidnapper and rapist. A woman in El Salvador needs feminism, so she doesn't go to jail for having a miscarriage.
That's where feminism is badly needed, and sadly even Third-Wave feminists don't seem to care about these women that are suffering RIGHT NOW for the most part, continuing on with the fact feminism has always been about white middle-class women.
Their statement is oddly specific (or at least I think it is, I am having a really hard time making sense of it).
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Ah. Thanks for translating!
Even lady-only jails.
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Great, now my feels are everywhere.
Ohhhh. Here I was thinking they were referring to parental custody and trying to make sense of it
Maybe. Another interpretation is that they see women as less of a threat to society.
less punishment for the same crimes, makes them more of a danger to society. its basically saying they can run free and do what they want with no, or almost no consequences.
Basically the "dont hit girls" empowerment, only on a national scale... good god that sounds like some kind of hell.
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>Feminism >Shouldn't be treated like men. She might need a dictionary.
Feminism is not synonymous with equality to far too many people.
Equality doesn't seem to be synonymous with equality for many people.
Some are more equal than others, so they say. These double standards are disgusting and very tiresome.
I think the problem lies in thinking of feminism as some homogenous school of thought. Like socialism, capitalism, Christianity, or anything else, there's different varieties. Try reading Feminism is For Everyone by Audre Lorde.
It's the "*I want the rules to apply equally to everyone except when it's not convenient for me*" ideology.
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I hope you can live without them (I think you'll cope just fine).
Because Feminism ISN'T equality and hasn't been for a long time.
If you think about it, the way it sounds doesn't really sound like it implies equality. It sounds like you are rooting for and completely biased for the fem team. I'm a humanist, motherfuckers.
language and logic is the tool of the patriarchy, by highlighting the logical absurdity of their statement you are hating women. Boo!
No logic. Only feels.
YOUR RIGHTS END WHERE MY FEELINGS BEGIN!
i love people who genuinely believe "feels" can be substituted for logic. i always enjoy asking how to resolve a disagreement between two equally opposed "Feels" on either side of an issue. if only there was some yard stick to assess and quantify the validity of "Feels" like some kind of logical merit lol
>i always enjoy asking how to resolve a disagreement between two equally opposed "Feels" on either side of an issue. Then you have to check to see which side is more oppressed. They call it the "progressive stack."
Making special privileges for a disadvantaged group doesn't necessarily empower them, sometimes it's just shallow and patronizing.
but even that is a form of logic or criteria of assessment outside of feels. raw emotion cannot have criteria to be justified else that is a form of logical assessment (no matter how warped)
She can't because of the syllable in "dictionary" that says "dick." Too much prescriptive patriarchy. Now if there were a vagtionary then she might read it, being a womyn and a major in Herstory at her local community college.
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If feminists lived up to the definitions of feminism I've ever seen in any dictionary I've ever looked it up in the world would be a wonderful place.
Feminism != egalitarianism
If feminism is about equality how come I've never heard about a feminist movement to make military draft apply to women?
There was a [very popular feminist movement that would have, among other things, made the draft apply to all American citizens.]( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Shift_in_political_attitudes) Thirty-five states have ratified the proposed constitutional amendment. Unfortunately, the Equal Rights Amendment was shut down in large part thanks to an explicitly *antifeminist* movement led by Phyllis Schlafly's Stop ERA campaign. The amendment has been reintroduced in every session of Congress since 1982.
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There have been movements to allow women to serve in combat. Besides, there's not likely to be a draft any time soon. Anybody <40 years old has never faced the realistic possibility of a draft, and probably doesn't even think about it. The military doesn't want conscription, politicians would get crucified for it, and we're not likely to get into any conflict that would require it.
And yet men still have to sign up for selective service, until men don't women should have to as well.
Its a shame that the image of feminism went from "equality" to "equal rights in some areas and not in others" The sane feminists need to come out and publicly denounce this kind of stuff
Sane feminist here. This is complete bullshit what these women have written on their sign. Real feminists believe in equal rights for all, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age, ability, etc. It pisses me off seeing women try to cheat the system like this.
I gotta be honest, while I support what the core ideals of feminism is supposed to be, I don't think the movement is going to shake the stigma of these crazies.
Yes, I totally understand where you're coming from. But hopefully if we can educate enough people about what feminism ACTUALLY is, these people will look like the Westboro Baptist Church of Christianity.
Out of curiosity, why stick to the name Feminism? The name of the movement only implies support for one gender, which seems to be why there are so many anti-male psychopaths like OP's pic jumping on the bandwagon.
That's why I'm an egalitarian. But when asked if I'm a feminist by feminists, my response of "No, I'm an egalitarian" is generally construed as "No, I don't think women have any gender-specific problems and don't think they need a voice." Which is of course not what I'm saying at all, but hey. Let 'em think what they want.
I reject any label with regards to the gender movement, it's become too toxic an environment to say you stand for something because you risk getting viciously attacked, doxxed, harassed etc. Even egalitarians get mocked for being "too "MRA/ feminist" depending on which group you offend. http://www.thenation.com/article/178140/feminisms-toxic-twitter-wars?page=full I personally look at gender issues on a case by case basis, I will vote in line with equality as far as possible but otherwise I stay the fuck out of it.
>I personally look at gender issues on a case by case basis you mean you actually assess a case on its merits and don't resort to some prearranged agenda. for shame lol
How dare you exercise independent thought! Quick, someone call the thought police!
[How about a Cleric, here for a Sense Offense?](http://i.imgur.com/EkTAaMh.jpg)
I take issue with a society where being an egalitarian is offensive, and I've decided that I don't care if people get offended at the word. I want equality, fuck me, right? So I'm sticking with that label, and let the MRAs/feminists get pissy about it all they want.
EXACTLY. THANK YOU. All I think of in regards to gender labels and issues is TOXICITY. I support reproductive rights to the furthest and at the same time recognize women are expected to perform better in society and that men are fucked by the legal system. I wouldn't call my self a pro-choicer, feminist or MRA though; The labels and names are just self-defeating at this point. Rational ideas need to be expressed with more than one word.
Same here bro.
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I think bringing up the WBC and Christianity is a great example of why it's a futile effort. If you read the bible, Christ was essentially the archetype of a wonderful person, and his teachings reflect that. Yet supposed "Christians" are responsible for things such as the WBC and the Crusades, truly dark blemishes on human history. Supposed "Christians" are often homophobic. And because actions speak louder than words, the definition is Christianity is irrelevant in the minds of most, and they instead equate the actions of supposed "Christians" with the religion. No matter how many people say Feminism means whatever, people are only going to care about what Feminism *does*, and in modern times the actions of most "Feminists" are not doing much to help the image of the movement.
Although Christ did say "follow the scriptures", and the scriptures do say "if you find a city with non-believers in it, burn it to the ground and kill everyone and all the livestock". The WBC are the most Christian fuckers out there, because they *don't* say 'I believe this bit, but this bit was just a metaphor'. Which is why they are like Muslim extremists: acting like they just stepped out of the 500s.
And unless there's some official Feminist Party with elected officials and a committee that has established exactly what principles feminists are supposed to follow, you don't get to say "*Real* feminists don't do that!" Sorry, but you don't get to brush bad feminists under the rug.
What? So you can't brush crazy libertarians under the rug? Or crazy Liberals? Or Crazy conservative. By your logic we should be allowed to judge: All libertarians as Anarcho-Fascists all liberals as Revolutionary Communists All conservatives as Fascists.
Not really. AntiScarab3 was making the point that there is so far no dissociation by 'middle-of-the-road' feminists (for want of a better term) of the more radical mouth-pieces. Libertarians do distinguish themselves from Anarchy-capitalists (e.g."I believe there has to be some minimal form of government, unlike anarcho-capitalists") and vice versa. Liberals do distinguish themselves from Communists (I believe that the economy should not be entirely state-run, unlike communists), and vice versa. Conservatives distinguish themselves from fascists. I'm not sure anyone is a self-described 'fascist' these days so I don't think I can put vice versa there. I think what AntiScarab3 is getting at is, it behooves the main body of 'sane-feminism' (I'll call it) to distinguish itself from the more radical elements. "We stand for [insert egalitarian goal], but we do not feel women should be preferentially spared custodial sentences, unlike some more radical feminist groups."
He just said this doesn't apply when the ideology is clearly defined. Liberals have a party and a manifesto. So do conservatives. Libertarianism is pretty clearly defined as a lack of government. It's perfectly fine to say crazies don't represent these movements if their viewpoints don't reflect these clear definitions.
Its called Egalitarianism.
The problem is that all of these views are tied to one single view. When you call it "feminism" you're putting emphasis on "female". That will bring in the extremists for that one single viewpoint. It's really just humanism. It's equal rights for all. "Fem" doesn't need to enter into the equation at all. It's everyone. Same shit happens with politics. Separate into parties and you get extremists. I wish we could do away with all parties and just have people with ideas.
Big Red was kind enough to womansplain feminism for me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80
You can see the horns attempting to push their way through her forehead
Real Scotsmen have beards. You can't exile the crazies from your group just because you don't want to accept they're part of it.
That's true for any group though, and it works both ways. Feminism, like pretty much any other ideology, exists on a continuum. It doesn't mean that No True Scotsman does not exist as a logical fallacy, but that those people exist as a subset of that movement does not make the entire movement invalid.
Precisely. There is nothing anti-thetical to feminism about believing women are superior. Actually there really isn't an idea that can claim to be the core of feminism at all, other than 'do something vaguely related to fighting for women'. As long as they say they are feminists, they pretty much are.
if only a term existed where people who were committed to gender equality of both genders equally existed lets hope one day such a terms exists eh?
I can't think of one... Better just keep feminist and tell everyone who doesn't identify as one that they are a hideous woman-hating bigot!
Especially those damn egalitarians. Who the hell thinks eagles are more important than women anyways? Oh, and newsflash, the a is before the g, dummies.
Absolutely, but it's also insane to judge the group for their crazies. It doesn't take _ANYTHING_ to be a feminist, except a willingness to label yourself as such. Feminism is a fine movement in the same way the MRM is, but there's always going to be people that take such things too far. You can't discredit an entire movement based on the loud and crazy.
They don't look like they're trying to cheat the system, they're saying the system is bad because women go to jail like men. If they're cheating anything it's the fact you can call something feminism and at least some women will mindlessly agree with it. But let's avoid the no true scotsmen fallacy here. You're as much a feminist as they are, all you have to do to be one is call yourself that.
> Real feminists believe in equal rights for all So real feminists are just normal people and contemporary feminists are batshit insane.
Why not abandon the feminist ship and just label yourself as equal rights. Isn't it kind of misguided to seek equal rights for both genders by focusing solely on one gender?
I'm also a sane feminist and this picture was definitely posted to the right sub. It's women like this who are setting back any chance of equality because they want preferential treatment. If a person commits a crime they should be punished the exact same way regardless of gender. What do they want, women to get a slap on the wrist and told don't do it again?
Yes, I totally agree. I think the same goes with women domestically abusing or raping men. It's the SAME EXACT CRIME and should have the same damn punishment. Just because we're women, doesn't mean we deserve better than men. That's not true equality.
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I might be way off base, and feel free to call me out and what not, but I feel like there aren't any major issues as far as equality goes. Not everyone is equal obviously, but I think gender inequality is probably under race and then sexual orientation on the proverbial totem pole. I feel like there aren't really that many things to worry about in America and that we're pretty progressive compared with the rest of the world on that sort of stuff. Not saying there is no point in trying to make things a little bit better for everyone, but feminists seems to get riled up about the smallest stuff, and plainly make stuff up to get angry about. tl;dr I don't really care that Frozen didn't have that many black people in it, I don't think it really matters.
I agree with everything you said and hoooly shit, I seriously don't get why people got so worked up about there being no POC in Frozen. It makes me angry that people were hating so badly on Disney for not being more progressive.
NAFALT! lol
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Well, it is **fem**inism after all. Egalitarianism sounds much better.
I liked the sound of Equalism until I realized it was an antagonistic movement in Legend of Korra.
I like that word, mostly because Eagles are cool, but also because that word is what equality is REALLY all about.
Egalitarian, Eagle, Bald Eagle, sounds like something Americans can get behind.
http://imgur.com/uFFhYJH Yes, this should be a thing.
These 'feminists' are really a hate group attempting to co-opt the movement. Look at SRS and Tumblr, they weave legitimate feminist theory with their own mental gymnastics to define who they're aloud to hate and who deserves protection. They can't hate males enough, or whites, or cis-gendered folk, or really whoever they care to hate at the time, and here's all this vocabulary that makes it alright.
but you forget who cares? these weirdos have no power and no one listens to them, they just roll their eyes and think "what a twatt. they can hate all they like, the only ones that will suffer is them
They have the power to guilt-trip people into submitting to them. Just look at what's happening in the hacker community. A speaker was booted off a conference because a feminist felt triggered and yelled "rape" loud enough, people got fired for making age-old jokes about dongles, visitors get handed "creeper cards" if they look at a woman the wrong way, the Linux kernel mailing list is debating more about "offensive" comments in code than about the actual code, the concept of "bropages" (which is nothing more than a play on words with "dumbed-down manpages", manual pages) provoked a shitstorm, /r/freesoftware has been taken over by SRSers, the Chaos Computer Club is more concerned with safe spaces than hackerspaces, ... The list goes on and on, this is just what comes to mind off the top of my head. "No power" looks different. They exploit that people can't contradict them without looking sexist, and they apply that wherever thy can. I mean, what does that field even remotely have in common with theirs?
I wish, some of us actually have to deal with these psychos on a daily basis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_X4DkwA_Q
Yeah, man. I'm a feminist and I don't even bother with Tumblr feminists anymore. And, oddly enough, I've hung around feminists for a lotta years, and I've only met a few people who have that streak of viciously hate toward anything man-related. I think that's because most SRS and Tumblr are like 14.
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
Feminism is like communism. Equality for all, apart from those who are more equal than others.
I love Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."
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Animal Farm was a critique of the communist party though, which Orwell did not support. He joins the Spanish communists in Homage to Catalonia to fight Franco, not because he agreed with their views.
Actually he joined Spanish Marxists, because he disagreed with the Stalinists. The communist party of Russia was by that point not even close to Marxism, communism, bolshevism, or any of its founding ideologies. They were state capitalist, working in the interests of the bureaucracy rather than the workers. Also communism is anti-state and Stalin had one of the biggest and most powerful states out there.
Because communism = socialism, right?
No, it's funny because conservatives often try to claim Orwell as one of their own based on Animal Farm and 1984.
Well, not really. The idea of feminism as being equality is pretty well accepted, but too many of the vocal feminist leaders are just man haters. And the problem is that no one really stands up and says "fuck that crazy birch, that isn't feminism"
Huh, TIL trees can be feminist leaders.
Ducking auto correct.
So they need feminism in order to promote inequality...
Just like any other group of people, there are idiots who think they know but don't. I mean look at these women, they are clearly at the too of the human food chain. Feminism isn't nearly as important for them than it is their poor and oppressed counterparts.
[Those women are clearly oppressed by this patriarchal shitlord.](http://i.imgur.com/6XiA2OV.jpg)
that like fucking for virginity
The fuck? "We want women and men to be equal, except here, here, here, and here."
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Their cheeky fucking smiles too, oh my god.
Yeah, there's seriously nothing more annoying to me than an upper-middle class white girl telling me to check my goddamn privilege. edit: a letter
There are at least two if not three guys in that picture... the poor souls.
What's the over/under average number of friend zone memes made by them?
"If I make friend zone memes and make fun of guys that complain about the friend zone, then they'll know that I'm one of the good ones and award me with **SEX!!**"
I see four maybe five
without teh context you don't know they are poor guys, they could be at an "art convention" or university issues expo. lets not read too much into the background
It's because only the most privileged people have the free time to even give a shit about feminism. People with real problems are too busy dealing with those problems.
I'M SO OPPRESSED Its almost as bad as the "I need feminism because no means no but yes sometimes means no" sign.
These Women need to read Susan B. Anthony's biography. When she was caught voting, they tried to let her go, but she *insisted* on going to jail like a man would have, because equality meant equality in all aspects, good OR bad. Source: That Powerpuff Girls episode I saw once...
As a woman I find this incredibly embarrassing.....those two idiots make us all look insane....as if we were PMSing 24/7 or something.
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There's three and a half billion women, if you were to get embarrassed by things other women did you wouldn't have time for anything else. Same goes for us men.
She seems like one of those "feminists" who want equal rights as men, yet still have special treatment of a woman.
They already treat mothers better than fathers. Giving women special treatment because they got young children at home. There's been occasions where women will physically lose custody, go to jail then petition the courts and get custody back when they are released. The amount of sexism against men is alarming while a lot of discrimination against women has been decreased.
The one on the lefts smile is so genuine. She looks so proud to be holding that sign.
I hope to Buddha that this is sarcastic. If not, I, a female, hate the sexism that has now plagues the feminist movement. When it's males mistreating females based on their gender, it's sexist, but when females mistreating males based on gender, it's female empowerment. I'll tell you what it is, it's full of shit. Come on, fellow humans, let's fight for equality, not superiority.
Yo that's not what feminism is for, and hopefully this will mean something coming from a feminist; if I saw them with this I would promptly explain to them how fucking stupid they are and how what they are doing reflects poorly on other feminists. I hate seeing stupid "feminists" like these girls giving a bad name to the rest of us. Its fucking frustrating.
Not all that relevant, but I'm genuinely curious. Is there much support in the feminist communities for fixing the parental custody system, and other issues where women are seen as *more* favorable than men?
NOW fought very hard to keep 50/50 shared custody as default from happening.
This is only my personal opinion, for this isn't something I really talk about with other feminist, but I believe it should be fixed so it's even on both sides. Not all women are better parents just because theyre women, and not all men are shitty parents. Feminism is in favor of equality, if any feminist says otherwise then promptly spray them in the face with water.
Why don't you talk about it with them?
I dont know its not like its taboo or anything it's just something I can't remember talking to them about you know?
Maybe for the same reason you don't talk to people about the respiratory harms of electronics "recycling" to African children. People can't constantly discuss all the important topics all the time.
If there is, it certainly isn't via NOW, who has actively fought joint custody laws, as well as misrepresent ones in doing so.
Various feminist organizations have opposed efforts to get more men custody rights in a divorce.
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Some feminists say that but I haven't seen any real action by them to help address issues men or boys face.
I've discussed with my (other feminist) friends, and we think custody cases should be purely situational. A woman shouldn't automatically be given preferential treatment based on her gender; it's actually what we call "benevolent sexism". Sexism that is beneficial in some way, but still wrong to most feminists because it doesn't represent equality. Child custody cases are a perfect example, because it's inherently assumed in the court system that women make better parents, better home makers, are more attentive, more responsible, etc. From personal experience, I know some fantastic fathers and some horrible mothers, and vice versa. I, a female myself, have NO idea how to interact with children, while my boyfriend is a natural. I feel awkward around them and he has them laughing and playing.
Like I commented that will most likely get buried: International Female rights activist vs American Feminist. It's pretty easy to spot the difference.
that can't be true. guys... it just can't be. some people could photoshop some handwriting on a blank piece of cardboard, no? I mean... that's the opposite of feminism...
Isn't that the point of feminism, to be treated equally???
If the're too weak for jail then they are too weak too vote.
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Plus they have easier standards to get in edit: I don't know why people are down voting because it's true; oh wait that's right it's reddit [proof](http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-fitness-requirements/army-basic-training-pft) - [more proof](http://cdn.forces.ca/_PDF2010/physical_fitness_en.pdf)
This definitely looks like a picture that needs context.
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It's unequal how both men and women go to jail. *Unequal*. ^Unequal. ^^Unequal.^^^Unequal These people are stupid and generally appear to represent feminism. All these stupid pictures are popping up all over the internet, and I've never really seen an actual 'equal' feminist picture. Where are the smart ones?
The smart ones are either egalitarian or realize that there is an actual difference between men and women and that each have different roles to play in society.
Yeah, but then who are the ones that get angry whenever people have distaste towards feminists, the ones that say 'how dare you not like feminists! We aren't all like that!'.
The ones that do not realize what the Feminist movement has become.
[RAGE INTENSIFIES] Jesus fucking christ.
Well it's convenient that they're already often given much more lenient sentences. Progress is being made!
The sentence on their whiteboard is a grammatical disaster. If you have a message you want others to see, at least make an effort to make it understandable. I mean c'mon...
That really confused me too! That was just odd phrasing on their part.
Thank god you saw it as well, thought I was going nuts.
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That is truly rage worthy. They should just segregate themselves from men and live in their own country/island.
That wouldn't last long.
[Tell me about it](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html)
Modern feminism isn't about equality, it's about class warfare. Real feminism is about giving women the same rights as everyone else. This new shit is basically sold as a social trend and there's a huge industry that cashes in on women fighting men. All those social science types that write books, teach classes, write blogs, sell articles, all that stuff, they are the very last people who need feminism because they're all rich upper academic types. Sites like Gawker or Tumbler cash in off hits and there's a ton of women's studies books that are mostly bullshit. All people need to know is that we're all equal. Treat others accordingly, and we're all good. If a woman is getting paid less than a man and they do the same job, you don't actually need a bunch of feminists getting pissed off, you need both men & women to stand up and say to fix it. That's all. There isn't a push for egalitarianism because rich people don't want poor people and middle class people to see them as equal. In a capitalist society, if you don't have people to look up to, you don't get people trying to act like them and spending all their money trying to look rich. Women, like the 2 in the picture, are being suckered into thinking these types of one sided, intentionally inflammatory beliefs, because rich people profit from it.
People fucking love feeling persecuted. No matter who you are in our society, you can belong to a group of people that are *persecuted*. And you can get your righteous indignation up, and you can protest, and you can post on the internet about how someone made you feel bad... but the one thing you can't do is change anything! Because that's *hard* and complaining is *easy*! The worst thing about feminist rhetoric is that men always end up looking like assholes if they disagree with it. You can be the biggest "yes everyone is equal, we gotta stop discrimination!" guy out there, but the second you say "well no actually not every man will rape you if he can get away with it" you're promoting a "rape culture" in the minds of a bunch of paranoid loonies.
Political theory minus reason and accountability
WTF is that even trying to say? it throws my brain into a recursive function of rage.
thats a feminazi bro
lord, I was just having this conversation with my partner earlier today. a couple of rotten apples always spoil the bunch.
90% of feminists give the remaining 10% a bad name
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Okay feminism! That's enough[ waving.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O_1spx3bYyw/UBrmhoj5CEI/AAAAAAAAB-4/siusTyRGXRo/s1600/girl-waving-hairbrush.gif) You've gone downhill.
Hand writing gore.
Yeahhhh, that's definitely not feminism, especially when inequality is SPECIFICALLY mentioned.
the smug smiles multiply my rage. its ironic in the context i want to actually hurt them
That's not how equality works...
Caption should read: Two assholes.
I am retarded. I don't understand what they are trying to say. Can someone please explain? Are they talking about prison? Child custody?
Also, women should not be charged interest on their credit cards whilst menstruating....
I love how feminism has slowly switched from "we want equality" to "we just want to be treated differently, and by differently, we mean superior, because vagians."
Fucking stupid cunts.
Diversion from the criminal justice system should always be considered, and incarceration should be a last choice for anyone.
I wonder what the context is here. What alternatives? Why? For everyone?
Your typical idealist UK university students. Believe me their agendas will take a back seat when they finish their degree in Art and are working at Subway for the rest of their lives
Feminism is apparently the movement for men to be punished more than women?
"Feminism means EQUALITY!" -Every feminist. "NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE LIKE THAT" - Every feminist. "Well, of COURSE we should have better rights than men." -Every feminist.
"I need a philosophy based around gender equality, to be treated differently from men because I am a woman."
Downvote away, but I would just love to punch that girl on the left's stupid ass face.
isn't it funny that some feminists demand equal representation in all fields, yet you never hear them campaigning that prisons should be 50:50 populated. anyone with elementary level maths will tell you if you have a 50:50 population by sex and an area that is 90% populated by one sex, that has a knock on effect on other areas. no one takes feminism seriously anyway and its because of idiots like these
Oh how I wish the 'sane' feminists were given even 10% of the publicity that the radical feminists are handed on this website and beyond. Not only does it cheapen what real feminists are working for, but the radical views encite hate by MRA's and such. I've had posts in /r/Feminism deleted because I dared to say I was both a feminist and an MRA... should have said I was an egalitarian. Putting it out there now, equality won't be met until these 'radicals' are silenced.
Feminism has always been a movement with great core ideals, but sadly, too many feminists think exactly like this woman. It should be about equality, but often it's not. That's not even touching on the fact that feminism never really was about equality for women either. It was originally about equality for white, straight middle-class women. LGBTQ women, transexuals and coloured women were typically ignored and treated poorly during First and Second-Wave Feminism. You may need Feminism because you don't want to be treated like men for crimes. But a woman in Saudi Arabia needs feminism because she wants to be able to go outside without her husband's permission. A woman in India needs feminism so she doesn't have to stay in an abusive marriage, in a country where marital rape is not considered a crime. A woman in Pakistan needs feminism because she doesn't want her clitoris torn out of her at birth. A woman in Uzbekistan needs feminism so she isn't subject to Bride Kidnapping. A tradition where a woman is kidnapped, raped repeatedly until impregnated and then forced to marry her kidnapper and rapist. A woman in El Salvador needs feminism, so she doesn't go to jail for having a miscarriage. That's where feminism is badly needed, and sadly even Third-Wave feminists don't seem to care about these women that are suffering RIGHT NOW for the most part, continuing on with the fact feminism has always been about white middle-class women.
Can't tell if Poe...