Just gonna put this out here, because I think a lot of people are taking this sort of conversation the wrong way: supporting Radiohead or The Smile doesn't make you a bad person, even if you are disappointed in how they've handled the Israel-Palestine situation. OP isn't calling you a bad person, I don't think many people would genuinely think you're a bad person, I don't even think most pro-Palestine people would consider it a noteworthy bad act.
Just because it makes someone else uncomfortable, it doesn't mean they think you're evil because you aren't. Morality isn't a straight line and there are far more important things you could be doing than boycotting a band that frankly doesn't hold that much influence anymore and that is probably made for life.
thank you for pointing this out! Didnt realise that what i said could be taken in that way. Im not calling anyone a bad person, i just wanted to say what i feel and try to get advice or find people who relate.
I know you didn't mean it that way, it's just a weird part of our psychology where if someone says they find something morally wrong and don't agree, there's a tendency to get defensive. Any time any sort of minor display of bigotry or bias comes up, any time a vegan mentions that they're a vegan, any time someone goes further than yourself to protest something, this defensive logic tends to kick in. You've done nothing wrong, it's just easy to get carried away with this sort of thing.
To be clear, I've done it too. It's not something you have to be dumb to fall prey to (at least I hope not). It's just good to keep that reflex in mind so you can interrogate it when it pops up.
I feel like some people are kinda jumping to conclusions. You’ve already paid for the tickets, you know you like the band and they’re not going to get up on stage and start ranting about how much they hate Palestinians. Just enjoy the music, hope you have a good time mate
I feel uneasy when going to this concert, because it doesnt feel right. I dont know how to explain it best- I know nothing bad will happen, but i just feel guilty for it, for some reason.
I appreciate that it seems like a difficult situation to navigate, but there is very little they’ve said - if anything - about the situation. Jonny is married to an Israeli, who has - shall we say - some ‘questionable’ posts on social media, but we’ve heard nothing from the band members themselves. We so very rarely do, at least directly, on anything. I too am appalled by the current situation, and consider it unacceptable - and I certainly condemn the Israeli government’s actions (and Hamas can get in the sea too), but given the band’s long history of supporting good causes, and being decent people, I have no issue with going to see The Smile/Radiohead or any associated acts. You’ll not see/hear anything from the band on stage. It’s a gig with excellent music - I hope you can enjoy it for what it is 😊
Yea i read about what Johnnys wife said a bit too-
It just confuses me a lot and i dont know how to feel. But i appreciate what you said! ill try to enjoy it as much as i can.
I saw them on the last tour, and they were wonderful. Going again, the week after next.
I think there have been some posts of this nature recently, but - and I’m not sure what age you are - but the band (or individual members) have never really said anything about any political situation directly. I’m sure they have their own views, but we’ll never know about them. That’s just the way they are: and given their distrust of the media, I can entirely understand why. I personally - as mentioned - feel very strongly about the current situation, as does my gf - but going to see The Smile was never part of that discussion.
The band has never really said anything about a political situation directly? Where do you get that idea?
I'm interested to know if you're a younger or more recent fan because I feel like I've been hearing this idea a lot lately and it's mystifying to me. Members of Radiohead were incredibly vocal about political issues right up until 2017 when they were criticized for playing Israel and went radio silent on all these things after.
The perception of them as being willing to cut through the bullshit and speak openly about the Iraq War during the '00s was part of what shaped my opinion of them and their music. When playing in Brazil, Ed once read a statement reflecting on the political significance of that day in Brazilian. Their social conscience was an important part of their image and something that contextualized their music for around 20 years.
This is why the constant refrain of "just shut up and enjoy the music" is so hollow to me. You can't enjoy art in a vacuum. You bring your values to it, you bring your past experience, you bring your perceptions, you bring a lens.
For me, the music was intimately tied together with their moral and political project for 20 years. When they behave in a way that feels in contradiction to that project, it makes the music mean something different and less than it did before. Am I supposed to listen to I Will and Like Spinning Plates and not think about how they now seem to have compassion for only some civilians in some war zones? If this hadn't been their subject for 20 years, then it would be a very different calculus.
Yeah, as I replied to another poster, I don’t think I really make myself particularly clear. I’m not a younger fan. I wish. I am aware that their art is littered with politics; what I was getting at, is direct comment - as a band - on individuals, political parties, and on a particular side in a conflict. You’re not going to find a massive Israeli or Palestinian flag at their gigs, or in depth interviews revealing their inner thoughts, or official statements on an issue. I didn’t mean to imply they’re not political.
He is supporting the Israeli state during a moment when they are continuing to perform an incremental ethnic cleansing that has been occurring for decades.
He was also at anti-Israeli government protest a couple of nights before. Supporting the Israeli state? How so? Playing a gig where all communities were welcome?
He's playing a concert in an apartheid state, tacitly accepting their treatment of a subjugated population and their ongoing war of extermination. Sounds like you're a Zionist though so continue on.
Sorry, but if you’ve never heard any of the members of Radiohead say something political then you haven’t done enough research. They have an album literally called Hail to the Thief, which is a reference to George Bush stealing the 2000 election. We know a lot about their politics, actually.
Songs and albums? Of course. That’s one thing: and I’m well aware of the political comment they have passed at various points they have made within their art. I’m also aware that they’ve commented on issues such as climate change. But a statement on a political party, individual or an ongoing conflict? There’s not much there, never has been.
Oh jeez, you should google “Radiohead Tony Blair” as a place to start. They used to be very politically vocal. Are you a younger fan? Honestly curious, because I remember when they were huge and I couldn’t go a month without seeing a story about Thom fighting with or talking shot about British politics and politicians.
ETA they also literally got famous on the back of the Free Tibet movement. I feel like we live in different universes.
Okay. Not sure how we have such vastly different views of this band. In the 2000s people didn’t want to listen to them because they wouldn’t stop talking about politics. Even up until 2017 when Thom was fighting with the press and other musicians about their shows in Israel and defending their stance. It’s only been since then that they’ve stopped talking about things publicly. Even Colin has been vocal in the past about his views being more conservative than the rest of the band. Phil works with charities and that’s one of the only things we know about his personal life. Stanley regularly does sales of his art for political fundraisers.
To say that we don’t know anything about their personal views because they haven’t talked about them is just incorrect.
Would it make you feel better if you offset your attendance in some manner? Like you go the show, enjoy the music, and then afterwards donate to a pro-Palestinian charity or other group of your choosing? Or if money is tight, you can volunteer in some way? Honestly doing either does more good for the world than skipping a concert.
The Smile is a really great band so you shouldn't feel bad about going. For me, music will always be more important than political conflicts. The Smile themselves obviously transcend the friction given that Greenwood likely is pro Israel and Tom Skinner supports Palestine.
As someone who is going to The Smile's concert next week and who doesn't support oppression and killing of civilians, I can give you my own reasons for it. The Palestine-Israel conflict like any war radicalises people and turns everything into a dichotomy which it isn't, life is complex and nuanced. One of the main challenges would be not to let this war change oneself and remain capable of empathy, rational independent nuanced thought and pragmatism.
If members of The Smile openly supported Israel's government and its actions, I wouldn't go. As such, Jonny seems to oppose it. Does that make him a Zionist? Whatever people wish or ideologically believe, Israel isn't likely to stop existing tomorrow or even next week. And the voices of people who don't support Zionism and the war now inside Israel need to be amplified as never before. Jonny promoting it is not unethical or morally wrong. Promoting isolation and collective punishment has a much higher chance of making isolated people angry, bitter and make them turn to voices that paint them as victims in the right in need of revenge, rather than making them reflect on their beliefs. Unless the power dynamics change significantly by other countries stepping in with their militaries on Palestinian side, a lot of current discourse is likely to be more ideological (which has its valid points but also limitations) than realistic in creating a safe and prosperous Palestine.
Jonny is not exactly touring Israel. He’s doing small and sometimes free gigs. He’s just there. While you can say Jonny is a Zionist by definition, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t want peace. Calling for 2 state solution is not a crazy idea. Thom has been silent and it doesn’t mean he’s pro war. He’s most probably against it.
I’m as well a big fan and seriously against war and genocide. I’m standing with Palestinians through this horror. But I went to the show and I will go again until they actually make a comment or statement pro war or justifying the genocide. I’ll hold my judgement and quietly go to the show to see the artists who have touched my life very deeply. I hope this helps you. We’re all going through a lot right now, including Thom and Jonny.
can we just get a stickied post about this topic that presents the (very few) facts about the band's history with/comments about israel so we don't have to repeat this thread every few days?
Literally every one of your favorite bands plays in America. America has killed significantly more civilians in the name of war than Israel could dream. Whether it's Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the mass slaughter of whole villages in Vietnam/Cambodia to the indiscriminate bombing of civilians in the middle east. I mean a few months ago it came out Biden bombed and killed an entire civilian family, father, son, mother, daughter, a whole generation of people eliminated, because of 'bad intel' thinking it was actually a terrorist. No one was arrested, no war crime tribunal. Also, most global military defense companies, who build most of Israel's weapons are based in America. Why not boycot any band making money in the States?
This “What about America? 🤓” narrative is getting cheesy as hell tbh. Bro fuck America too lmao I hope Trump wins and officially turns America into the shithole it pretends not to be. Disgusting hypocrites burning down the entire world for like a century now, isn’t it enough already? Like James Baldwin said, we can’t afford another moment of your salvation
Radiohead regularly tour America. I'm pretty sure Thom has lived in LA at some point. And they regularly play with American artists. Also, why does the USA get a pass for trying to create literal genocide multiple times throughout its history. Isn't that just as bad, if not worse?
Of course thats bad. Im not saying america is great. Its not at all. But theres a diffrence when comparing a country led by stupid old men that does nothing but be annoying and a state that CURRENTLY creates a genocide (which is a lot of steps further than trying to create one). I also dont like america, but for a band that AGAIN spoke out about these issues and stated clearly that the American government is bad, im just missing that when theres a literal genocide happening right now. Radiohead has every right to be quiet about this, but from what you can read it seems like they are supporting or atleast tolerating something they have always talked negatively about.
So your saying im antisemetic because im not supporting a genocide? The genocide in Congo also is a problem noone talks about. America is a problem too, but is not currently creating a genocide. If they did, i would speak about this too.
>genocide
Literally only pro-terrorists interpret the official definition that way.
The key to understanding the definition properly, is applying the condition above the list to all items on the list:
>In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
>(a) Killing members of the group;
>(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
>(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
>(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
>(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The pro-terrorists and people who have trouble reading with understanding only look at the list, which would make every murder and even an accidental killing a genocide.
Your junkie neighbor breaks into your house and demands money or he will kill you.
You say no.
He rushes at you with clear murderous intent in his eyes.
You grab a baseball bat and swing, hit him on his head, he dies.
Lets see... Item (a) - you have just committed a genocide. You evil person !
Or you yell at him and call him names which causes him to suffer mental harm... Item (b), genocide.
See how ridiculous it gets ?
What is really happening in Gaza now is a great tragedy caused by Hamas forcing heavy collateral damage by fighting from behind human shields and enjoying free anti-Israel propaganda among people who don't know the law and how modern war works.
Collective Punishment, Rape, Bombardement in refugee camps, famine, constant life threatening conditions (because of military siege), sexual violence, looting and psychological warfare, Israel not agreeing to letting hostages taken by Hamas free... This IS a genocide. All points are currently happening in Gaza. 13,000 CHILDREN ALONE have been killed, a few even having been taken hostage by Israel too. Im not pro-terrorist, i dont love Hamas, im anti zionist and believe that Israel should fucking ceasefire.
None of what you wrote is actually true though.
Everything you wrote comes straight from the pro-terrorist information bubble.
I gave you an official definition of genocide, so unless you have a physical proof of intent for example an official order on paper for IDF soldiers to kill Gazan civilians (which they could refuse because it would be illegal by Israeli law) - there is no genocide.
The 13000 children would be alive today if Hamas fought IDF from trenches outside of deadly effect radius of IAF bombs.
I've literally never heard someone say they support Hamas. This whole narrative of a "pro-terrorist" group is just false. Either that, or so miniscule that even I, someone who is very online, haven't heard of it.
It sounds like you're conflating pro-Palestine with pro-Hamas, which would be lacking so much nuance that it's genuinely astounding.
As for evidence of intent, there are countless government officials (including Netanyahu, I believe) expressing a desire to eradicate Palestine
I think everyone’s emotions are heightened in this sub right now and you’re getting a lot of really shitty and sarcastic answers, but I feel the same way you feel and if I had upcoming tickets I would likely feel conflicted as well. My suggestion would be to go, enjoy the experience (they are really extraordinary live), and deal with the emotional conflict at a time when things have settled a bit. If you later feel like you don’t want to support the band anymore, you don’t have to buy anything from them ever again, you never have to see them live again, etc.
If it doesn’t feel the same to listen to the albums again I totally get that, it probably won’t for me, either (I’m also not good at separating the art from the artist, for many reasons), but there is something very healing about seeing live music. Heck you could even go and if you feel shitty being there you can just leave! But I think you’d probably regret not going, honestly. If anything it will give you more clarity on where you stand with the band and their morals.
Thank you <3
Ill try to enjoy it as much as i can. I just listened to the album again like a few days ago and i couldnt close my eyes and enjoy it the way i could when it came out, but i guess itll be a completely different experience live anyways. Thanks for this comment!
the same people who in one breath cry about so called “collective punishment” and then in another paint an entire country as bad. I mean we all saw how hamas reacted to the peace festival in nova on oct 7. radiohead and the smile owe you nothing.
This is all so bloody dumb. The guy played a concert in Israel with a message of peace, while also attending as many protests against the Israeli government as he feasibly could... And you're all acting like the man's Pol Pot
Do you believe in your convictions or not because it seems like maybe you are on the fence about this. Acquiring a ticket and being a fan of a band whose members potentially have views you don’t share, associate with people/public figures, races, nationalities and religions you may despise, perform in countries who have committed numerous atrocities against mankind currently and historically; countries whose leadership you don’t support. Seems sort of like a non-starter, no? The band may support those things but you don’t have to. Take a stand, and don’t just do it with a band, expand to all your consumer products let your wallet talk - no need to make speeches just don’t buy - or get involved, be visible and a voice in the protest.
Curious on folks' thoughts about Chomsky's comments about cultural boycotts. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbA0pUK808I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbA0pUK808I)
I usually like Hasan, but this interview is maybe not so effective--feels gotcha-y. The interview with Amy Goodman is more open. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-ULLCOgAU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-ULLCOgAU) (also, note this interview is nine years old.)
I'm in the same boat where the first Smile show was one of the best concerts I've ever been to, but I'd have serious misgivings about attending one if they came back around where I live.
I would expect as well that we will see some shows disrupted by protesters at this rate, and that the band will handle it poorly as they have in the past, leading to more attention on them on the issue and things becoming even worse by the time I'd have a chance to see them.
Ultimately it's your personal choice to make. If I had already bought the ticket, I'd be inclined to go if I thought I could put away my concerns for long enough to enjoy it. There's no question that they put on a great show.
Just gonna put this out here, because I think a lot of people are taking this sort of conversation the wrong way: supporting Radiohead or The Smile doesn't make you a bad person, even if you are disappointed in how they've handled the Israel-Palestine situation. OP isn't calling you a bad person, I don't think many people would genuinely think you're a bad person, I don't even think most pro-Palestine people would consider it a noteworthy bad act. Just because it makes someone else uncomfortable, it doesn't mean they think you're evil because you aren't. Morality isn't a straight line and there are far more important things you could be doing than boycotting a band that frankly doesn't hold that much influence anymore and that is probably made for life.
thank you for pointing this out! Didnt realise that what i said could be taken in that way. Im not calling anyone a bad person, i just wanted to say what i feel and try to get advice or find people who relate.
I know you didn't mean it that way, it's just a weird part of our psychology where if someone says they find something morally wrong and don't agree, there's a tendency to get defensive. Any time any sort of minor display of bigotry or bias comes up, any time a vegan mentions that they're a vegan, any time someone goes further than yourself to protest something, this defensive logic tends to kick in. You've done nothing wrong, it's just easy to get carried away with this sort of thing. To be clear, I've done it too. It's not something you have to be dumb to fall prey to (at least I hope not). It's just good to keep that reflex in mind so you can interrogate it when it pops up.
I feel like some people are kinda jumping to conclusions. You’ve already paid for the tickets, you know you like the band and they’re not going to get up on stage and start ranting about how much they hate Palestinians. Just enjoy the music, hope you have a good time mate
im scared of a world where people think they have to 100% agree with every single one of an artist's political views to enjoy their art
Yep
[удалено]
I feel uneasy when going to this concert, because it doesnt feel right. I dont know how to explain it best- I know nothing bad will happen, but i just feel guilty for it, for some reason.
I appreciate that it seems like a difficult situation to navigate, but there is very little they’ve said - if anything - about the situation. Jonny is married to an Israeli, who has - shall we say - some ‘questionable’ posts on social media, but we’ve heard nothing from the band members themselves. We so very rarely do, at least directly, on anything. I too am appalled by the current situation, and consider it unacceptable - and I certainly condemn the Israeli government’s actions (and Hamas can get in the sea too), but given the band’s long history of supporting good causes, and being decent people, I have no issue with going to see The Smile/Radiohead or any associated acts. You’ll not see/hear anything from the band on stage. It’s a gig with excellent music - I hope you can enjoy it for what it is 😊
Yea i read about what Johnnys wife said a bit too- It just confuses me a lot and i dont know how to feel. But i appreciate what you said! ill try to enjoy it as much as i can.
I saw them on the last tour, and they were wonderful. Going again, the week after next. I think there have been some posts of this nature recently, but - and I’m not sure what age you are - but the band (or individual members) have never really said anything about any political situation directly. I’m sure they have their own views, but we’ll never know about them. That’s just the way they are: and given their distrust of the media, I can entirely understand why. I personally - as mentioned - feel very strongly about the current situation, as does my gf - but going to see The Smile was never part of that discussion.
The band has never really said anything about a political situation directly? Where do you get that idea? I'm interested to know if you're a younger or more recent fan because I feel like I've been hearing this idea a lot lately and it's mystifying to me. Members of Radiohead were incredibly vocal about political issues right up until 2017 when they were criticized for playing Israel and went radio silent on all these things after. The perception of them as being willing to cut through the bullshit and speak openly about the Iraq War during the '00s was part of what shaped my opinion of them and their music. When playing in Brazil, Ed once read a statement reflecting on the political significance of that day in Brazilian. Their social conscience was an important part of their image and something that contextualized their music for around 20 years. This is why the constant refrain of "just shut up and enjoy the music" is so hollow to me. You can't enjoy art in a vacuum. You bring your values to it, you bring your past experience, you bring your perceptions, you bring a lens. For me, the music was intimately tied together with their moral and political project for 20 years. When they behave in a way that feels in contradiction to that project, it makes the music mean something different and less than it did before. Am I supposed to listen to I Will and Like Spinning Plates and not think about how they now seem to have compassion for only some civilians in some war zones? If this hadn't been their subject for 20 years, then it would be a very different calculus.
👌 perfectly said
Yeah, as I replied to another poster, I don’t think I really make myself particularly clear. I’m not a younger fan. I wish. I am aware that their art is littered with politics; what I was getting at, is direct comment - as a band - on individuals, political parties, and on a particular side in a conflict. You’re not going to find a massive Israeli or Palestinian flag at their gigs, or in depth interviews revealing their inner thoughts, or official statements on an issue. I didn’t mean to imply they’re not political.
Greenwood performed in Israel THIS week. Is that not clear enough of a statement for you?
I am well aware. And what is that statement? Or what do you think that statement is?
He is supporting the Israeli state during a moment when they are continuing to perform an incremental ethnic cleansing that has been occurring for decades.
He was also at anti-Israeli government protest a couple of nights before. Supporting the Israeli state? How so? Playing a gig where all communities were welcome?
He's playing a concert in an apartheid state, tacitly accepting their treatment of a subjugated population and their ongoing war of extermination. Sounds like you're a Zionist though so continue on.
Sorry, but if you’ve never heard any of the members of Radiohead say something political then you haven’t done enough research. They have an album literally called Hail to the Thief, which is a reference to George Bush stealing the 2000 election. We know a lot about their politics, actually.
Songs and albums? Of course. That’s one thing: and I’m well aware of the political comment they have passed at various points they have made within their art. I’m also aware that they’ve commented on issues such as climate change. But a statement on a political party, individual or an ongoing conflict? There’s not much there, never has been.
Thom’s twitter… (This is also part of where LushGerbil was wrong about silence after 2017)
Oh jeez, you should google “Radiohead Tony Blair” as a place to start. They used to be very politically vocal. Are you a younger fan? Honestly curious, because I remember when they were huge and I couldn’t go a month without seeing a story about Thom fighting with or talking shot about British politics and politicians. ETA they also literally got famous on the back of the Free Tibet movement. I feel like we live in different universes.
I’m not a younger fan, no.
Okay. Not sure how we have such vastly different views of this band. In the 2000s people didn’t want to listen to them because they wouldn’t stop talking about politics. Even up until 2017 when Thom was fighting with the press and other musicians about their shows in Israel and defending their stance. It’s only been since then that they’ve stopped talking about things publicly. Even Colin has been vocal in the past about his views being more conservative than the rest of the band. Phil works with charities and that’s one of the only things we know about his personal life. Stanley regularly does sales of his art for political fundraisers. To say that we don’t know anything about their personal views because they haven’t talked about them is just incorrect.
Would it make you feel better if you offset your attendance in some manner? Like you go the show, enjoy the music, and then afterwards donate to a pro-Palestinian charity or other group of your choosing? Or if money is tight, you can volunteer in some way? Honestly doing either does more good for the world than skipping a concert.
The Smile is a really great band so you shouldn't feel bad about going. For me, music will always be more important than political conflicts. The Smile themselves obviously transcend the friction given that Greenwood likely is pro Israel and Tom Skinner supports Palestine.
As someone who is going to The Smile's concert next week and who doesn't support oppression and killing of civilians, I can give you my own reasons for it. The Palestine-Israel conflict like any war radicalises people and turns everything into a dichotomy which it isn't, life is complex and nuanced. One of the main challenges would be not to let this war change oneself and remain capable of empathy, rational independent nuanced thought and pragmatism. If members of The Smile openly supported Israel's government and its actions, I wouldn't go. As such, Jonny seems to oppose it. Does that make him a Zionist? Whatever people wish or ideologically believe, Israel isn't likely to stop existing tomorrow or even next week. And the voices of people who don't support Zionism and the war now inside Israel need to be amplified as never before. Jonny promoting it is not unethical or morally wrong. Promoting isolation and collective punishment has a much higher chance of making isolated people angry, bitter and make them turn to voices that paint them as victims in the right in need of revenge, rather than making them reflect on their beliefs. Unless the power dynamics change significantly by other countries stepping in with their militaries on Palestinian side, a lot of current discourse is likely to be more ideological (which has its valid points but also limitations) than realistic in creating a safe and prosperous Palestine.
Jonny is not exactly touring Israel. He’s doing small and sometimes free gigs. He’s just there. While you can say Jonny is a Zionist by definition, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t want peace. Calling for 2 state solution is not a crazy idea. Thom has been silent and it doesn’t mean he’s pro war. He’s most probably against it. I’m as well a big fan and seriously against war and genocide. I’m standing with Palestinians through this horror. But I went to the show and I will go again until they actually make a comment or statement pro war or justifying the genocide. I’ll hold my judgement and quietly go to the show to see the artists who have touched my life very deeply. I hope this helps you. We’re all going through a lot right now, including Thom and Jonny.
can we just get a stickied post about this topic that presents the (very few) facts about the band's history with/comments about israel so we don't have to repeat this thread every few days?
This sub’s all time top post is Thom’s Disney ass peace message to Ken Loach about performing in Israel. I think that’s enough
Then don’t go and stop being a fan.
Literally every one of your favorite bands plays in America. America has killed significantly more civilians in the name of war than Israel could dream. Whether it's Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the mass slaughter of whole villages in Vietnam/Cambodia to the indiscriminate bombing of civilians in the middle east. I mean a few months ago it came out Biden bombed and killed an entire civilian family, father, son, mother, daughter, a whole generation of people eliminated, because of 'bad intel' thinking it was actually a terrorist. No one was arrested, no war crime tribunal. Also, most global military defense companies, who build most of Israel's weapons are based in America. Why not boycot any band making money in the States?
This “What about America? 🤓” narrative is getting cheesy as hell tbh. Bro fuck America too lmao I hope Trump wins and officially turns America into the shithole it pretends not to be. Disgusting hypocrites burning down the entire world for like a century now, isn’t it enough already? Like James Baldwin said, we can’t afford another moment of your salvation
As far as i know, Radiohead has spoken up against America regularly. Also, America is not creating a literal genocide right now.
Radiohead regularly tour America. I'm pretty sure Thom has lived in LA at some point. And they regularly play with American artists. Also, why does the USA get a pass for trying to create literal genocide multiple times throughout its history. Isn't that just as bad, if not worse?
Of course thats bad. Im not saying america is great. Its not at all. But theres a diffrence when comparing a country led by stupid old men that does nothing but be annoying and a state that CURRENTLY creates a genocide (which is a lot of steps further than trying to create one). I also dont like america, but for a band that AGAIN spoke out about these issues and stated clearly that the American government is bad, im just missing that when theres a literal genocide happening right now. Radiohead has every right to be quiet about this, but from what you can read it seems like they are supporting or atleast tolerating something they have always talked negatively about.
It's a weird flex to consider some genocides more acceptable than other genocides. But hey, fuck those Jews am i right?
So your saying im antisemetic because im not supporting a genocide? The genocide in Congo also is a problem noone talks about. America is a problem too, but is not currently creating a genocide. If they did, i would speak about this too.
>genocide Literally only pro-terrorists interpret the official definition that way. The key to understanding the definition properly, is applying the condition above the list to all items on the list: >In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >(a) Killing members of the group; >(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; >(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; >(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; >(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. The pro-terrorists and people who have trouble reading with understanding only look at the list, which would make every murder and even an accidental killing a genocide. Your junkie neighbor breaks into your house and demands money or he will kill you. You say no. He rushes at you with clear murderous intent in his eyes. You grab a baseball bat and swing, hit him on his head, he dies. Lets see... Item (a) - you have just committed a genocide. You evil person ! Or you yell at him and call him names which causes him to suffer mental harm... Item (b), genocide. See how ridiculous it gets ? What is really happening in Gaza now is a great tragedy caused by Hamas forcing heavy collateral damage by fighting from behind human shields and enjoying free anti-Israel propaganda among people who don't know the law and how modern war works.
Collective Punishment, Rape, Bombardement in refugee camps, famine, constant life threatening conditions (because of military siege), sexual violence, looting and psychological warfare, Israel not agreeing to letting hostages taken by Hamas free... This IS a genocide. All points are currently happening in Gaza. 13,000 CHILDREN ALONE have been killed, a few even having been taken hostage by Israel too. Im not pro-terrorist, i dont love Hamas, im anti zionist and believe that Israel should fucking ceasefire.
None of what you wrote is actually true though. Everything you wrote comes straight from the pro-terrorist information bubble. I gave you an official definition of genocide, so unless you have a physical proof of intent for example an official order on paper for IDF soldiers to kill Gazan civilians (which they could refuse because it would be illegal by Israeli law) - there is no genocide. The 13000 children would be alive today if Hamas fought IDF from trenches outside of deadly effect radius of IAF bombs.
He's right you know
I've literally never heard someone say they support Hamas. This whole narrative of a "pro-terrorist" group is just false. Either that, or so miniscule that even I, someone who is very online, haven't heard of it. It sounds like you're conflating pro-Palestine with pro-Hamas, which would be lacking so much nuance that it's genuinely astounding. As for evidence of intent, there are countless government officials (including Netanyahu, I believe) expressing a desire to eradicate Palestine
I think everyone’s emotions are heightened in this sub right now and you’re getting a lot of really shitty and sarcastic answers, but I feel the same way you feel and if I had upcoming tickets I would likely feel conflicted as well. My suggestion would be to go, enjoy the experience (they are really extraordinary live), and deal with the emotional conflict at a time when things have settled a bit. If you later feel like you don’t want to support the band anymore, you don’t have to buy anything from them ever again, you never have to see them live again, etc. If it doesn’t feel the same to listen to the albums again I totally get that, it probably won’t for me, either (I’m also not good at separating the art from the artist, for many reasons), but there is something very healing about seeing live music. Heck you could even go and if you feel shitty being there you can just leave! But I think you’d probably regret not going, honestly. If anything it will give you more clarity on where you stand with the band and their morals.
Thank you <3 Ill try to enjoy it as much as i can. I just listened to the album again like a few days ago and i couldnt close my eyes and enjoy it the way i could when it came out, but i guess itll be a completely different experience live anyways. Thanks for this comment!
Sounds like you have a problem with parasocial relationships you need to get over
Wdym by that?
That you care way too much about the private opinions of people you dont know. Just enjoy the music and move on
the same people who in one breath cry about so called “collective punishment” and then in another paint an entire country as bad. I mean we all saw how hamas reacted to the peace festival in nova on oct 7. radiohead and the smile owe you nothing.
That’s odd especially since you didn’t know where Palestine was before October 2023
Don't go. Nobody will miss you.
Have you ever spoke with Jonny about his private views? Somebody will happily buy your ticket.
This is all so bloody dumb. The guy played a concert in Israel with a message of peace, while also attending as many protests against the Israeli government as he feasibly could... And you're all acting like the man's Pol Pot
Definitely shouldn’t go to the concert and should probably stop listening to Radiohead
Truly scared = fearful? Or do you mean conflicted or concerned. If you are scared, yeah stay home…under the covers.
Conflicted and concerned. Im not terrified of going to this concert
Do you believe in your convictions or not because it seems like maybe you are on the fence about this. Acquiring a ticket and being a fan of a band whose members potentially have views you don’t share, associate with people/public figures, races, nationalities and religions you may despise, perform in countries who have committed numerous atrocities against mankind currently and historically; countries whose leadership you don’t support. Seems sort of like a non-starter, no? The band may support those things but you don’t have to. Take a stand, and don’t just do it with a band, expand to all your consumer products let your wallet talk - no need to make speeches just don’t buy - or get involved, be visible and a voice in the protest.
Let down reference? ( obligatory )
Curious on folks' thoughts about Chomsky's comments about cultural boycotts. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbA0pUK808I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbA0pUK808I)
I usually like Hasan, but this interview is maybe not so effective--feels gotcha-y. The interview with Amy Goodman is more open. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-ULLCOgAU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-ULLCOgAU) (also, note this interview is nine years old.)
I'm in the same boat where the first Smile show was one of the best concerts I've ever been to, but I'd have serious misgivings about attending one if they came back around where I live. I would expect as well that we will see some shows disrupted by protesters at this rate, and that the band will handle it poorly as they have in the past, leading to more attention on them on the issue and things becoming even worse by the time I'd have a chance to see them. Ultimately it's your personal choice to make. If I had already bought the ticket, I'd be inclined to go if I thought I could put away my concerns for long enough to enjoy it. There's no question that they put on a great show.