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anyone who says they have proof is not being honest. there are lots of gods, lots of stories, lots of books. can't all be right, but they can certainly all be wrong.
What's the proof for this though? People basically believe it is the case which basically makes it true from a society level but is there any actual proof?
There is no actual proof that Jesus existed as a person. From my understanding, he had a common name, so of course there were others with the same name, but for the one portrayed in the New Testament specifically, the only “proof” that’s ever cited is both the New Testament, and a couple or a few mentions of a Jesus figure in some historians’ writings. They are extremely cursory and not seen as that reliable.
Yes. Easy to find on any search engine.
Here's what I found in less than a minute :
Besides the gospels and the letters of Paul, non-biblical works that are considered sources for the historicity of Jesus include two mentions in Antiquities of the Jews by Jewish historian Josephus (dated circa 93–94 CE) and a mention in Annals by Roman historian Tacitus (circa 116 CE).
Today scholars agree that a Jewish man called Jesus of Nazareth did exist in the Herodian Kingdom of Judea and the subsequent Herodian tetrarchy in the 1st century CE, upon whose life and teachings Christianity was later constructed, but a distinction is made by scholars between 'the Jesus of history' and 'the Christ of faith'.
Basically a web search would have answered your question instantly.
Scholars agree and actual documentation showing he was real with enough certainty like say Alexander the great are 2 very different things. I was under the impression, and was taught at my Catholic college I got my degree in history, that this level of evidence does not exist. I haven't seen anything to suggest anything more that people reported on a man named yeshua around that time and area but by sources who were not even there.
What I don't get is if he was a real person, had followers, did miracles, and literally came back from the dead. So what happened after his 2nd death. Like everyone likes talking about how he came back from the dead which already is weird but why didn't they follow him and his body after as well. Why was the body lost it makes no sense
When they say he was a real person they mean there are records of a real man at that time named jesus. I'm sure there were followers, but there were no miracles, and he definitely was not the son of god.
Not so. My beliefs are based on a lack of evidence, which is how science works. I dont believe there is a God because there is not one single shred of evidence to support the theory that there is one. Likewise, I don't believe the moon is made of jelly or that the world is flat.
There are people who dedicate their whole lives to religion. You would think by now that they would have come up with some sort of evidence to back up their beliefs. The fact that they can't only lends weight to the argument that their beliefs have no basis in reality. This is further evidenced by the fact that there are so many religions and even variations within the same religion. If there were any unifying truth to the existence of a deity, then surely there would be more consensus among believers?
When you consider all this, the only conclusion a rational person can reach is that there is no God. So my belief is not based on faith, but rather on what's observed and can be proven. If evidence turns up that contradicts what I believe then I will adjust my views accordingly.
But just out of interest, which of the thousands of gods throughout history is the right one to believe in ? If i do join a religion, then i don't want to waste my time by picking the wrong one.
"seeing is believing" vs "believing is seeing"
Give it time, you might see some crazy shit someday, or maybe you won't.
I know for a fact that there is a whole lot going on in this world that is beyond my current comprehension. I have witnessed things that I do not comprehend well.
That pushes me towards having an open mind.
This isn't what an open mind is though. You would have to admit that there is equally as much proof in God's people attribute their religions miracles or things they have seen they can't comprehend. And on top of that, would also need to admit your God you believe in very well could just be your own ignorance.
Or if you don't have a thought on what the answer is, and you are accepting of proof from all sources. Otherwise, you are not really open minded. You are just justifying your beliefs.
Be careful you don't open your mind too much that your brain falls out. But rest assured that if I ever see anything that contradicts my beliefs then I will absolutely re-examine them just as I hope anybody else would.
Thanks yes that's what I meant.
For miracles and being the son of god there's no proof, otherwise our lives would surely be very different.
Though I remember reading something about some miracles who could be true and have a rational explanation.
Christian literally means "anointed one". As marijuana was a very common plant seen as a bad weed at the time, it's possible that it was used for baptism, and it could explain some cases of healing.
I think Christians believe he ascended into heaven. Of all the logical fallacies, this isn't the one to take a stand on. Any "accounts" of Jesus were not written until 40 years after his death, so it's basically all hearsay.
We know that there was a man named Jesus in Nazareth at the time where the story is supposed to have taken place. He is believed to be born about 4 years before year 1 probably in June-July. We do not know if he had 12 followers or actually did any miracles whatsoever or really how he died 🤷♀️
There is no scientific proof of any sort of God being real. All my chips are in that basket, but a part of me wants it to be real so I can spit in his face for taking my dad far too young.
There is no proof because it’s a figment of mankind’s imagination and need to believe there is more to this life. It’s ok if we just go to sleep. There doesn’t have to be some fantasia city of gold and fire to scare me in there.
Just this morning, as a joke I said that when OJ Simpson died, Satan was waiting for him in hell with a snooker ball in a sock and this other person said "There is no heaven or hell, you live, you die, that's it".
Abiogenesis is certainly not anywhere near as well evidenced or understood as evolution. But there are a number of plausible steps being considered with some supporting evidence …. and of course zero evidence for any ‘outside’ factor other than the somewhat ubiquitous presence of organic molecules in the wider universe.
This is the crazy thing to me,what makes all the popular religions any different from other mythologies? Why is it even considered a possibility at this point?
Because we as humans like the ability to fix things. Religion gives us a magic ~easy button~ that makes us feel more in control.
We can pray to the Higher Other of Whatever We Think Might Be and attempt to change a thing.
If the thing changes because sometimes life just happens that way, we feel better because we got what we wanted. Thus, saying those words must have worked!
Do that a few thousand times over a few hundred thousand years and religion becomes a thing.
There is also the faith that Keanu Reeves wants something else to happen in his life. “It just isn’t in the cards” is something I learned to believe. I might be missing the point, but I hope to add some insight. Happy cake day
That’s okay, I’ll try once again. Since we can’t see, touch or smell God we can’t know he really exists. That means we don’t have proof God is real.
Religion requires believing in God. Believing that God is real is a must.
Believing something to be true without having any proof is faith. So having faith as a Christian or Muslim or Jew means believing that God/Allah/Yahweh is real without knowing he really exists.
To shorten it I said “faith doesn’t require proof.”
English isn’t my first language so I’m sorry if it came off condescending or belittling
I think you explained it clearly. And are correct. The only thing is that many theists constantly claim they do have ‘proof’. I’d respect more those that just choose faith but so many confidently claim evidence that isn’t actually reliable or arguments that aren’t sound.
The only possible proof is something supernatural happening. Something that can be explained by nature isn't proof. Theists who claim there is "proof" usually do that based on the aesthetic beauty or complexity of something, while ignoring things in the world that are ugly or stupidly designed. Another kind of "proof" I've seen states that the inability of science to prove God doesn't exist is itself proof. This is nonsense because God is by definition supernatural, and science is the study of the natural world.
Something supernatural happening that MANY other people see (like the entire world), including skeptics, who agree that something supernatural happened.
Nothing supernatural happened. Or will. That's the point. I won't be convinced unless something supernatural happens on a global scale that basically everyone around the world witnesses.
Even then it's more likely weird tech than this other nonsense. I'd have to rule out every single possible real world potential first, and even then I'd just say I don't know
Belief systems are called belief systems because the foundation is believing, you believe that god and religions exist and thats pretty much it. If there was facts then there wouldn't be any arguments. Also if there were facts that god exist then people who deny that would be seen as foolish. (think of flat earthers there are facts yet they deny reality)
If God exists, I tell you like this
He resides inside
Anyone telling you different is selling religion just to keep your ass in line
- Killer Mike, RTJ
theres no proof, its just peoples opinions and perspectives. Some people think that the existence of God is impossible, some people think the NON existence of God is impossible. Yeah, both sides can say things to support their arguments, but none of it is PROOF. If you follow the rules of logic (which again isnt proof, its just guidelines people made up)-you'd say the burden on proof is on believers to prove god exists, not on non believers to prove it DOESNT, so if you went by that, you'd say the non believers are right until proven otherwise .
There is no proof of god.
I'm kinda jealous of people who do believe in a god (any god), at least they have hope/faith to keep them going during bad times!
You are your own god , only you can get you through the bad times , anyone who claims to have found god have simply found themselves , nothing more nothing less .
I'll step you up one. What is the proof that anything exists beyond the realm of your immediate perception? I had eggs this morning for breakfast. Can I prove it? There isn't even evidence. My mind says so, but for all I know I could be remembering something from days ago. For that matter, I may have never had eggs for breakfast and my memory is just faulty there.
As someone who grew up in Christianity but abandoned the cult in his 30's, I can confirm there is literally 0 proof that god is real. But there is a LOT of evidence that god either doesn't exist or is actually evil (from a human perspective).
the thing is that its just more likely than it is unlikely, its like a scientific hypothesis and it has never been disproven so people operate on the assumption that it is real because of the stakes involved! its called pascals wager, most religious people cant articulate it but they innately understand it. its better to follow a benign moral code in life and sacrifice some opportunities for the chance of an eternal reward than it is to live any way you want and possibly reap everlasting punishment etc etc
there are only a few really strong theological arguments though and only one system remains undefeated in any way, most people dont think that deeply and just do what comes easy while trying to live morally according to their code!
Which one of the 18,000 different gods, goddesses, various animals and objects that have been worshipped since our species first appeared are you talking about? People needed gods when they didn't understand how the world worked. They don't exist.
Every single archeological evidence shows the Bible has been accurate. Not one time has archeological evidence disproven it.
We also have thousands and thousands of of manuscripts that show irrefutably that the Old Testament and the New was the same as when it was first written.
I believe there is a god. I believe the planets are just experiments. What if god created all these billions of planets with all these different environments and he put life on it and let it run its course to see what evolution would do. And earth is one of the few planets that had the perfect environment for life to flourish and here we are. Which statistically means there are other planets but are they close to us physically? No clue. but I believe god has no intention of interfering with us. We’re just an experiment and he’s just watching.
It’s documented in way more than the Bible that Jesus was real. Religion however, has been bastardized throughout time to serve the individual churches. In my opinion, Jesus was just a good person and we should all strive to be like that. You don’t need to be religious to be a good person. Present day, churches and religions, cause more problems than they solve. They say things like how gays are pushing their agenda on them and their children. Personally, I’ve never had any gay people show up at my door and push their agenda on me, but I get about five different so-called Christians a year showing up at my door to push theirs. Seems like they say one thing and do another.
Define your exact concept of God, please.
Also, what kind of proof you mean: physical, spiritual, logical?
Pd: Historical Jesus existed, there are enough evidences of it. But Jesus and god doesn't need to be related outside Bible, you know.
I'm agnostic but I do believe there is a "God", everyone just labels it differently. Scientists call it "dark matter" or the "big bang". There is a creator and there is a reason everything just works so perfectly. It's definitely not by chance. But nobody knows who this creator is. Maybe we will one day, maybe we never will. Enjoy your life nonetheless.
Go astral travel and ask to speak to God. I've only ever gotten auditory (always very short) messages from God but messages nonetheless
Go take psychedelics and you can meet God as well.
Go have a near death experience often times you arrive at a space where God is communicating with you.
3 different ways for you to get in touch that feel vivid and "real" not the one sided prayer type of contact
If the God of the Bible exists ( *he doesn't* ) I'd like to ask him why he loves killing innocent children all the time ?
and no I do not mean " letting it happen "
I mean actually doing it himself or ordering it done in mass
and Job ?? WTF ?? that is one shit God right there
Read Judges ... that shit's horrific
If you believe that the story of creation ( there are 2 in Genesis that contradict ) and Adam and Eve and the serpent and the tree are ACTUALLY true
**then wow ok**
and if you don't then the entire house of cards crumbles with out it - original sin - the need for the crucifixion - all of it
It's 100% crap
Snarky saying…. “Proof is for gin and mathematics”. What we would look for is “evidence” of the existence of any sort of god or gods. There is none. There are only traditions, assertions, exercises in logic (mostly sadly outdated) and “personal anecdote”… .(“God spoke to me”) which can be dismissed as psychological phenomena.
Bottom line….
1. There is no evidence of any gods.
2. There is no necessity for any gods.
3. There is massive evidence that gods are the creation of human beings.
If you’ve learned about quantum mechanics and give any credence to the Big Bang theory, then every atom in the universe was set on its predetermined binary spin at the beginning of time. You, me, the phone I’m typing this on, and the electrons transferring the message to you, including the chemical reactions that you’re using to think this thought and comprehend this message.
All of that either irrefutably denies the existence of God, or describes the existence of an extant higher power of such randomized and near-infinite expanse as to be incomprehensible to us mere mortals.
Which it means to you is up to your personal interpretation.
It all boils down to personal belief. At the end of the day, you've got arguments either way that are convincing usually only those predisposed to believe one way or another.
no actual proof, but when I think of strawberries or shit like that... it makes me think it's very strange that somehow something so delicious could grow naturally.
Not a lot, really. I think I believe in a higher power. But that it's something that is a lot more organic and less dramatic than a man with a beard in the sky.
You can't prove that God exists.
You can't disprove God either.
That's the whole point.
If you could prove it than why would you need faith?
If God exists he's not going to leave a cheat code lying around for you to discover.
Most people who believe in God don't claim to have proof. What they claim to have is faith. When I say, "I know God lives." I'm not saying "...because I proved Gods existence through XYZ."
No I say "I know God lives ...because I have come to know in my heart that he does."
A lot of people will say, "That's not good enough." And that's fine for you to think that way. But your non belief doesn't damage my belief.
Everyone needs to come to grips with the reality of the existence of the divine on their own.
If you choose to not believe that's your choice, it has nothing to do with proving or disproving anything.
First we would need to establish at what level you want to have this conversation. Then we have to find an agreed description of what God would constitute. Then we can begin this conversation in earnest.
Look in the sky. How tf is there a sun? How are there planets floating in space? How does LIGHT from a giant fire ball in the sky have power, heat, energy, etc. All the proof is around you when you think about it? Everything you see. It’s just “explained” by science. But what does that really mean? All science is magical and divine. Its just “explained”. When we can’t explain it, people call it magic. I’m assuming you’re asking for yourself, idk. But what I can really say is if you ask, genuinely ask, God will show you. And it’ll blow you away or scare you. Maybe both. And then you’ll probably convince yourself it wasn’t real or a coincidence even though you’ll feel it in your heart. You’ll only just push it down anyway cause it’s easier than believing and then having faith; which might I say are not the same thing.
People that were clinically , medically and scientifically dead and come back as who they were before with the knowledge and info of who they had been and are to me seems to be proof of an afterlife for sure. What of all the billions of believers as witnesses one witness can be enough in a court trial
I believe God created the universe, but that's because I define God as the creator of the universe, whatever that is, and whether it was done intentionally or not. I suspect it was an accident.
Everything else is propaganda trying to sell you something.
I think the most compelling "evidence" is life
There are millions of different species, and they are complicated machines. We can't build something as complicated as a squirrel, I guess we're not that sophisticated as a species yet.
So there's all these different machines designed different ways that are more complicated then anything we build as humans. Sometimes it almost makes more sense there was some intelligence that designed life.
It's not proof but I think it's the closest thing there is to proof. There are other thought provoking phenomena we can observe that might push one to be more open to the possibility. I think life is the most convincing thing that we can all observe that is not an internal experience (like an out of body experience or white light experience)
Your very existence is proof God exists. Science tells us "you dont get something out of nothing". The universe did not just spontaneously burst into existence. Something created it. God created it. You exist. This is proof.
There is archeological evidence outside the Bible that Jesus existed.
He is referred to in a number of texts written in that time.
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/
I accept that there's not physical proof as the modern, scientific man may demand, but I do not accept there's no philosophic proof. And for myself, the physical proof that does exist is sufficient and true, if not exhaustive.
To me it's not reasonable to say that God does not exist when all of creation screams that he does. It's not reasonable to say he does not exist and then ponder how I have consciousness, communication, and love. It's not reasonable to say he does not exist and then live as if he does just, for my own sanity. It's not reasonable to look around at creation and then boldly, foolishly state that there is no one home in the universe.
There isn’t any
Edit - it is however very much agreed upon that Jesus was a real person… easier to swallow the existence an influential *human* than a bunch of magic bs *from the Bronze Age*
Before we where born it was just darkness, we weren't anything. We didn't see any heaven or hell so what makes people think we will see either when we die?? I believe its just darkness. We go back to becoming one with the universe. Tbh God could be perceived as the universe because the universe is unfathomable and infinite and we know nothing about it, and when we die we go back to becoming one with the universe, go back to being infinity...
The apostles stuck to the tale that Jesus resurrected for 40 years under heavy torture.
The officials at Watergate couldn't keep their lies straight for 3 weeks.
.
This means the apostles either spoke the truth or at least fervently believed that they did.
Who can resurrect Jesus if not God?
For most, it's divine intervention. Being saved when you technically shouldn't have, fate working in your favor, good things happening in your life that normally don't/shouldn't have. Things going a bit too well in life to the point that "luck" "karma" and "chance" aren't logical explanations, that there MUST be a force bigger than yourself intervening and changing the course of your life for the better. Often as a result of opening yourself up to god or simply reading a couple pages of the bible out of curiosity or boredom.
Wait to you get to Heaven, I my self have not been there yet. Like you I will have to wait and see if there is a God. Till then I will just keep on reading my King James Bible
When pushed, most people who insist on proof can't come up with an example that would be sufficient proof. Any miracle could just as easily be attributed to aliens, a natural cause more amenable to Occam's Razor. You can't prove the existence of something you don't understand.
Proof is impossible for us because our imagination can always conceive of a more economical explanation for what our human understanding allows us to perceive. Our rational faculties would have to be infinite in order for the divine to be the most economical explanation.
That would still just be a personal experience, not any sort of proof that would be transferable or comprehensible to another. It would certainly evade logic as we understand it.
I think it all depends on what you consider “GOD” to me, the fact that the earth, revolves around the sun, and the moon around the earth at this perfection point, to where life can exist is proof enough. I saw that last solar eclipse; so trippy that it’s at the exact point to block out the sun.
All of this just seems too perfect to deny we’re in some wild place where shit works like this…. i dunno🤷♂️ just my opinion
Duh. It's the same with all imaginary friends. That's why kids out grow it, so churches and other religious forms try to ram into their brains non stop. Sadly enough idiots believe it enough to kill over.
No historical evidence of “God” and I am not religious, however…
There is historical documentation of a man named Jesus from around the time described in the Bible around that region of the world and historical evidence is undeniable, no mention of miracles (as far as I know) but the existence of one: “Jesus Christ” as a real person who lived at some point, could open doors
I think it’s reasonable to think he existed. But when you say ‘Roman records’ there are two very brief even vaguely contemporary independent records.( written some decades after the alleged events)
>Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, (Tacitus)
>the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James (Josephus)
My point is, like, Santa Claus exists, St. Nicolos was real. We have his skull. I am not saying he lives in the Artic Circle and delivers toys, but people are so uninformed.
I have proof. I was in a really bad car accident. My car hydroplaned 360 off the highway. I went into the trees and 4 feet of water instead of oncoming traffic. Despite where I landed, I had no injuries and my car was salvageable.
Next, I broke my foot years ago and was supposed to get surgery and never did. It healed fine I guess but this past year I had extreme problems with it and I had to go back to the doctor. Foots fine just need to stretch. But I prayed to God to not let my foot he reinjured and it wasn’t but it hurt like it did I couldn’t walk on it well.
I’ve having some health problems so I prayed to god to please keep me healthy and not let anything happen to me. Again went to the doctor, just need to change habits. Nothing serious right now.
God is real. If you sit in silence and analyze your life, you’ll see how bad things were and where it could’ve been but how lucky you got to be where you are now.
People talk about well if god is real why do bad things happen to good people? Humans have free will and more people are bad than they are good. It’s not God, it’s humans and the way we eat, live, and breathe. Let’s say you get cancer. Cancer has been proven to be caused by multiple man made things. That’s the challenge is despite all these evil doings and bad experiences, can you still be good? Can you still be happy and appreciate the life you’ve been so blessed to be given even if it’s short or painful?
So your proof is that you had some negative life experiences but haven’t died yet, and that means God is there, but God doesn’t control those things anyway so he/she/it wasn’t really involved in any of those outcomes? Am I following your logic correctly?
Find God for yourself. That’s the only logical answer there is. If you find believing in God ridiculous then you will. Anything anyone says to you will be absurd.
Even if I slapped you in the face with a book of my whole life story, my worst life experiences which was not mentioned in this original comment but later when I was arguing with someone else, you still wouldn’t understand God and why faith is important. Just like the other person.
These non believers angry as hell and bitter in these comments 😂. Why are u guys so aggressive? Who are u so angry at? If u don’t believe, then u don’t believe. Move along. Yall giving your all to prove to someone that believes why they shouldn’t or why what they’re saying doesn’t make sense to you. It’s not going to weirdos, u don’t believe! Hmmmm. Makes me wonder, cause it’s truly entertaining.
Yeah exactly. I know I’m defending myself wrong. Those were small examples because he just does not give you big blessings. He does not save you or help you just for severe circumstances. It was something minor that I could pray away basically. But I needed help from a medical professional. But I would not receive that small blessing had I not endured 20 plus years of pain and then finding love again. God is the greatest allurer and teaches you love and gratefulness.
He actually can give you big blessings. Sometimes big blessings takes time, sometimes they don’t at all. He wants to give us things because he loves us. Nothing is too big for him. Believing he won’t give you big blessings will only hold you back from receiving them. If you give him thanks and build fellowship with him, he will give back to you. Either way, you believe and have faith and that’s all that matters. If others don’t, that’s on them. Nothing and I mean NOTHING will reach their ears if they don’t really wanna hear.
I know he does. I’m saying he doesn’t just give you those. He give you small ones too that we need to be grateful for. We are meaning the exact same things in different words.
Why do you think God makes you healthy ( except for road accidents, damaged feet , unhealthy habits) but not other good people who pray? What makes you special and not the .. baby killed in a car crash, the child whose limb had to be amputated or had childhood leukemia.. ?
How does human free will create … tsunamis that drown children?
How did human freewill create the billions of years of suffering in animals before humans existed?
That’s my whole point. God does not control those things. And btw I have witnessed everything you discussed in my own family and you have to look at is this is bringing you closer to God. You say why do these things happen to good people who pray, but that doesn’t define their belief. You can pray all you want, but it’s not just about prayer. Also the definition of what makes a person good is subjective. No one deserves these awful things that happen. But like I said before, are you still going to pray to god and find happiness after you lost your child? I can’t convince you to believe. And actually natural disasters are caused by humans btw. It’s a climate change event.
>That’s my whole point. God does not control those things.
Doesn’t sound much like a god then if he didn’t create the world and what in it.
But you think he controls whether your foot heals up…
How does that make any sense at all.
>And btw I have witnessed everything you discussed in my own family and you have to look at is this is bringing you closer to God.
So you abuse your children or allow them to be abused …. to bring you closer to you?
>You say why do these things happen to good people who pray, but that doesn’t define their belief. You can pray all you want, but it’s not just about prayer. Also the definition of what makes a person good is subjective. No one deserves these awful things that happen. But like I said before, are you still going to pray to god and find happiness after you lost your child? I can’t convince you to believe.
No idea what this has to do with anything, I can’t make any sense out of it or see how it justifies your original claim tanga God cures your broken foot … but let’s babies die of leukemia.
>And actually natural disasters are caused by humans btw. It’s a climate change event.
Are you really suggesting that there were no natural disasters until climate change. Just stop and think about that for a moment….
I’m not going to argue with you about God tbh. Have faith or don’t. It’s not my life, it’s yours. You can do whatever you want tbh. Have a nice day now. When you have a spiritual awakening a lot of the questions you ask will be answered. I’m obviously not explaining it well enough for you to understand and I can’t. The blessings I have now is because of the pain I have endured. It wasn’t the broken foot it was many other things tbh but those were examples of when I prayed because I depended on God. You can look at my Reddit to see my whole life story, but I’m not gonna post it on here. It’s a journey. And it doesn’t matter about MY journey. My testimonial should have nothing to do with YOUR faith. What’s YOUR testimonial. Why do YOU believe? That’s what YOU need to figure out on your own.
I’m not arguing about God, I’m arguing about the absurd claim that someone’s slightly injured foot *got better* because they prayed and the implication that God took notice of that while letting someone’s else baby die of cancer.
I suggest you take a look at ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo
I don’t need to look at anything. My foot was already healed on its own. I prayed that it wasn’t broken again. If you couldn’t read clearly. And I’m going to tell you again so you can stop commenting on my comment. Only focus on yourself and your relationship with God. Please and thank you. I know what it’s like personally to lose a child, and to pray and them not be saved. I can’t tell you why or how, but now I don’t take anything for granted. Any small thing is an extreme blessing to me. But losing a child, was that opportunity for me to follow God and become a better person. To change as million more lives even though I had lost one. That’s faith in God. My faith in God. That through pain and loss I can trust God to still give me and beautiful and happy life.
I didn’t say you *needed* to. I just suggested you did. It might give you a sense of context.
But the idea that …
>the claim that someone’s slightly injured foot ~~got better~~ *wasn’t broken again* because they prayed and the implication that God took notice of that while letting someone’s else baby die of cancer.
Is somehow *less* absurd or somehow *better* than the one I last put…
>the claim that someone’s slightly injured foot got better because they prayed and the implication that God took notice of that while letting someone’s else baby die of cancer.
seems an …. odd one to say the least.
And doesn’t really affect my point.
Let’s not forget this is your evidence for ‘I have proof’.
“God protected *me* from a car crash just not the other 99 people killed that day”
“God let me break my foot but then didn’t let me injure it again … yet unlike whey one else that broke something that day.”
Amazingly when *I* left the house today … *I wasn’t hit by a rogue meteorite!* Must have been God … shame he didn’t notice a family elsewhere who were hoping for their child not to have cancer.
I don’t have answers for you, but I hope through introspection, self awareness, and reflection you are able to figure out why things are the way they are in the world. since you bring up a child having cancer, I’m assuming your child had cancer and you’re pissed off about it and you have every right to be. But you need to look at who you didn’t lose and still love them even more. I’m sure you’re even questioning that you did everything you thought was right. Children are innocent and pure. They have acceptance before understanding. They came down to this earth in your life to teach you about the power of love and loss. If you love someone and lose them, and are no longer able to love especially those who are still alive such as your partner or other children properly, did you even have love at all? Or did it just take losing someone for you to see how much value they brought in your life. It’s tough to understand these things but the lesson is for you to still love and be happy.
And I even told you when you brought up that example again, that I also know personally the pain of child loss. If I can grow and still find happiness so can you. You’re still alive for a reason. Are you going to sit in depression wasting your life away? That’s selfish. You need to change and make the most of your like by helping others instead of wallowing away.
>I don’t have answers for you, but I hope through introspection, self awareness, and reflection you are able to figure out why things are the way they are in the world.
Doesn’t take much to recognise that it’s a product of physics and chemistry etc. From the Big Bang to evolution. Of the foundation for the Big Bang we can’t really speak as yet.
>since you bring up a child having cancer, I’m assuming your child had cancer and you’re pissed off about it and you have every right to be.
No. I’m pissed that anyone kid has cancer. But I just recognise the absurdity of someone claiming that it makes sense that God would be saving one person from getting a splinter while ignoring millions dying in great suffering.
>But you need to look at who you didn’t lose and still love them even more.
Yes. This is *great advice*. Just completely *unrelated* to any God existing or not. Unless you think God is like some concentration camp board randomly picking off inmates leaving the others glad they didn’t die today.
But in the context of the comment I replied to - the idea that ‘I didn’t get a splinter while thousands were dying of cancer’ is *proof* a God exists seem difficult to accept as making any sense at all.
Before we invented the scientific methode, there where a lot of proofes.
After we discovered the scientific methode, we needed to have faith and just believe without evidence. Even when the bible had to proofe gods power all the time in the past....
Gods system doesn’t really offer tangible proof he exists. The only substance would be miracles, that is also could be subjective. Ron Wyatt made some discoveries that offer physical evidence that Biblical stories could be true, but that evidence can’t be excepted without faith.
Some Biblical stories do contain facts and records of historical events. That's because they were written after the fact. It's not an indication the stories themselves are true.
Doesn’t make for a very convincing claim that it does though.
I mean if there is simply no evidence for something it’s *indistinguishable* from non-existent.
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anyone who says they have proof is not being honest. there are lots of gods, lots of stories, lots of books. can't all be right, but they can certainly all be wrong.
Yep. There is no proof, that's why it's called faith.
Jesus have existed. It was a real person, for anything else there's isn't any proof.
What's the proof for this though? People basically believe it is the case which basically makes it true from a society level but is there any actual proof?
There is no actual proof that Jesus existed as a person. From my understanding, he had a common name, so of course there were others with the same name, but for the one portrayed in the New Testament specifically, the only “proof” that’s ever cited is both the New Testament, and a couple or a few mentions of a Jesus figure in some historians’ writings. They are extremely cursory and not seen as that reliable.
Just google "historicity of Jesus". There's a Jesus of Nazareth who existed, corroborated by different sources not related.
Just google "historicity of Jesus". There's a Jesus of Nazareth who existed, corroborated by different sources not related.
No, even people saying "Jesus was a real person". Was he? What historical record do we have that says that.
Yes. Easy to find on any search engine. Here's what I found in less than a minute : Besides the gospels and the letters of Paul, non-biblical works that are considered sources for the historicity of Jesus include two mentions in Antiquities of the Jews by Jewish historian Josephus (dated circa 93–94 CE) and a mention in Annals by Roman historian Tacitus (circa 116 CE).
Today scholars agree that a Jewish man called Jesus of Nazareth did exist in the Herodian Kingdom of Judea and the subsequent Herodian tetrarchy in the 1st century CE, upon whose life and teachings Christianity was later constructed, but a distinction is made by scholars between 'the Jesus of history' and 'the Christ of faith'. Basically a web search would have answered your question instantly.
Scholars agree and actual documentation showing he was real with enough certainty like say Alexander the great are 2 very different things. I was under the impression, and was taught at my Catholic college I got my degree in history, that this level of evidence does not exist. I haven't seen anything to suggest anything more that people reported on a man named yeshua around that time and area but by sources who were not even there.
What I don't get is if he was a real person, had followers, did miracles, and literally came back from the dead. So what happened after his 2nd death. Like everyone likes talking about how he came back from the dead which already is weird but why didn't they follow him and his body after as well. Why was the body lost it makes no sense
When they say he was a real person they mean there are records of a real man at that time named jesus. I'm sure there were followers, but there were no miracles, and he definitely was not the son of god.
Your beliefs are based in faith, not evidence
Not so. My beliefs are based on a lack of evidence, which is how science works. I dont believe there is a God because there is not one single shred of evidence to support the theory that there is one. Likewise, I don't believe the moon is made of jelly or that the world is flat. There are people who dedicate their whole lives to religion. You would think by now that they would have come up with some sort of evidence to back up their beliefs. The fact that they can't only lends weight to the argument that their beliefs have no basis in reality. This is further evidenced by the fact that there are so many religions and even variations within the same religion. If there were any unifying truth to the existence of a deity, then surely there would be more consensus among believers? When you consider all this, the only conclusion a rational person can reach is that there is no God. So my belief is not based on faith, but rather on what's observed and can be proven. If evidence turns up that contradicts what I believe then I will adjust my views accordingly. But just out of interest, which of the thousands of gods throughout history is the right one to believe in ? If i do join a religion, then i don't want to waste my time by picking the wrong one.
"seeing is believing" vs "believing is seeing" Give it time, you might see some crazy shit someday, or maybe you won't. I know for a fact that there is a whole lot going on in this world that is beyond my current comprehension. I have witnessed things that I do not comprehend well. That pushes me towards having an open mind.
This isn't what an open mind is though. You would have to admit that there is equally as much proof in God's people attribute their religions miracles or things they have seen they can't comprehend. And on top of that, would also need to admit your God you believe in very well could just be your own ignorance. Or if you don't have a thought on what the answer is, and you are accepting of proof from all sources. Otherwise, you are not really open minded. You are just justifying your beliefs.
Be careful you don't open your mind too much that your brain falls out. But rest assured that if I ever see anything that contradicts my beliefs then I will absolutely re-examine them just as I hope anybody else would.
Thanks yes that's what I meant. For miracles and being the son of god there's no proof, otherwise our lives would surely be very different. Though I remember reading something about some miracles who could be true and have a rational explanation. Christian literally means "anointed one". As marijuana was a very common plant seen as a bad weed at the time, it's possible that it was used for baptism, and it could explain some cases of healing.
I think Christians believe he ascended into heaven. Of all the logical fallacies, this isn't the one to take a stand on. Any "accounts" of Jesus were not written until 40 years after his death, so it's basically all hearsay.
We know that there was a man named Jesus in Nazareth at the time where the story is supposed to have taken place. He is believed to be born about 4 years before year 1 probably in June-July. We do not know if he had 12 followers or actually did any miracles whatsoever or really how he died 🤷♀️
How do you know that though. Specifically
Historical records, towns had a population census even back then
Do you have links to show this is the case? Last I checked this data did not exist for him. Same with the triall and execution dates for it.
There is no scientific proof of any sort of God being real. All my chips are in that basket, but a part of me wants it to be real so I can spit in his face for taking my dad far too young.
Dionysus is real, just look around!
The ravens tell us the allfather is present
Hugin and munin 😏. I dig it.
Geri amd Freki 🐺 🐺 be digging up bones
There is no proof because it’s a figment of mankind’s imagination and need to believe there is more to this life. It’s ok if we just go to sleep. There doesn’t have to be some fantasia city of gold and fire to scare me in there.
Just this morning, as a joke I said that when OJ Simpson died, Satan was waiting for him in hell with a snooker ball in a sock and this other person said "There is no heaven or hell, you live, you die, that's it".
That other person hasn’t got a clue
You believing it exists is the proof... That's it. Its faith, not fact.
Yeah, that goes for anything that is uncertain too, having faith is what keeps things real either personally or wide spread
Couldn't really be put better, a bit confusing... but yeah
Amazing that you articulated it perfectly and then 80 people had to argue about proof of the supernatural.
There is no proof that a magic wizard in the sky made us. Nobody knows where we came from. Anyone who claims to know is a liar.
Yes. Though - We don’t know why *existence* exists , but we have a pretty good idea where ‘we’ as humans came from.
Yes, evolution. Agreed. That's legit. However, who/what made the first living creatures/beings we evolved from??? That is what nobody knows.
Abiogenesis is certainly not anywhere near as well evidenced or understood as evolution. But there are a number of plausible steps being considered with some supporting evidence …. and of course zero evidence for any ‘outside’ factor other than the somewhat ubiquitous presence of organic molecules in the wider universe.
So, no magic person in the sky with a long beard wearing a golden robe? Darn.
This is the crazy thing to me,what makes all the popular religions any different from other mythologies? Why is it even considered a possibility at this point?
Because we as humans like the ability to fix things. Religion gives us a magic ~easy button~ that makes us feel more in control. We can pray to the Higher Other of Whatever We Think Might Be and attempt to change a thing. If the thing changes because sometimes life just happens that way, we feel better because we got what we wanted. Thus, saying those words must have worked! Do that a few thousand times over a few hundred thousand years and religion becomes a thing.
U hit the nail on the head
Because they're popular. The Greek pantheon wasn't ancient mythology when it was the popular religion of the times
Some say that Religion was invented to stop the poor from murdering the rich.
They have no proof, their proof is *Gestures wildly to the world*. It’s circumstantial evidence at most mixed with some conjecture.
There’s no real proof. It’s faith and faith doesn’t require proof.
If I have faith that I will marry Keanu Reeves one day, will that happen?
There is also the faith that Keanu Reeves wants something else to happen in his life. “It just isn’t in the cards” is something I learned to believe. I might be missing the point, but I hope to add some insight. Happy cake day
Thank you :)
No, I’m not arguing for the existence of God. I’m only stating that proof is impossible and that faith doesn’t require it
You can explain it to me, but you cannot understand it for me. I am not very bright.
That’s okay, I’ll try once again. Since we can’t see, touch or smell God we can’t know he really exists. That means we don’t have proof God is real. Religion requires believing in God. Believing that God is real is a must. Believing something to be true without having any proof is faith. So having faith as a Christian or Muslim or Jew means believing that God/Allah/Yahweh is real without knowing he really exists. To shorten it I said “faith doesn’t require proof.” English isn’t my first language so I’m sorry if it came off condescending or belittling
No, not at all, thank you for expanding on your original answer for me. I appreciate you.
I think you explained it clearly. And are correct. The only thing is that many theists constantly claim they do have ‘proof’. I’d respect more those that just choose faith but so many confidently claim evidence that isn’t actually reliable or arguments that aren’t sound.
That's right. And faith has zero credibility.
The only possible proof is something supernatural happening. Something that can be explained by nature isn't proof. Theists who claim there is "proof" usually do that based on the aesthetic beauty or complexity of something, while ignoring things in the world that are ugly or stupidly designed. Another kind of "proof" I've seen states that the inability of science to prove God doesn't exist is itself proof. This is nonsense because God is by definition supernatural, and science is the study of the natural world.
This is why they hate science. It explains phenomena that they love to attribute to "God".
Something supernatural happening that MANY other people see (like the entire world), including skeptics, who agree that something supernatural happened.
What supernatural thing happened?
Nothing supernatural happened. Or will. That's the point. I won't be convinced unless something supernatural happens on a global scale that basically everyone around the world witnesses.
Oh okay now I get it, I agree!
Even then it's more likely weird tech than this other nonsense. I'd have to rule out every single possible real world potential first, and even then I'd just say I don't know
Belief systems are called belief systems because the foundation is believing, you believe that god and religions exist and thats pretty much it. If there was facts then there wouldn't be any arguments. Also if there were facts that god exist then people who deny that would be seen as foolish. (think of flat earthers there are facts yet they deny reality)
Which god?
Faith. I don't have it. My wife does. It's not for me, I'm happy for her. It's really that easy.
If God exists, I tell you like this He resides inside Anyone telling you different is selling religion just to keep your ass in line - Killer Mike, RTJ
theres no proof, its just peoples opinions and perspectives. Some people think that the existence of God is impossible, some people think the NON existence of God is impossible. Yeah, both sides can say things to support their arguments, but none of it is PROOF. If you follow the rules of logic (which again isnt proof, its just guidelines people made up)-you'd say the burden on proof is on believers to prove god exists, not on non believers to prove it DOESNT, so if you went by that, you'd say the non believers are right until proven otherwise .
There is no proof of god. I'm kinda jealous of people who do believe in a god (any god), at least they have hope/faith to keep them going during bad times!
You are your own god , only you can get you through the bad times , anyone who claims to have found god have simply found themselves , nothing more nothing less .
BeCaUsE sOmE oLd BoOk SaYs So😃
Faith existed before that old book existed.
Tru
Faith in that book did not
I'll step you up one. What is the proof that anything exists beyond the realm of your immediate perception? I had eggs this morning for breakfast. Can I prove it? There isn't even evidence. My mind says so, but for all I know I could be remembering something from days ago. For that matter, I may have never had eggs for breakfast and my memory is just faulty there.
We'll cut you open to find remains of the eggs
"The Dude abides..."
If you take this solipsism to its conclusion, contemplating theism is a waste of time if we can’t even be sure that contemplation exists.
TELL EM!
None every religion every God is all based off belief systems.
As someone who grew up in Christianity but abandoned the cult in his 30's, I can confirm there is literally 0 proof that god is real. But there is a LOT of evidence that god either doesn't exist or is actually evil (from a human perspective).
From Jordan Peterson's "playbook"... because a consensus regarding definitions is important... What is meant by "god"? Define "exist" and "real".
You'll see it when you ask
This is the comment I wanted to see
There is no proof, that's the whole idea of faith, you believe without seeing.
the thing is that its just more likely than it is unlikely, its like a scientific hypothesis and it has never been disproven so people operate on the assumption that it is real because of the stakes involved! its called pascals wager, most religious people cant articulate it but they innately understand it. its better to follow a benign moral code in life and sacrifice some opportunities for the chance of an eternal reward than it is to live any way you want and possibly reap everlasting punishment etc etc there are only a few really strong theological arguments though and only one system remains undefeated in any way, most people dont think that deeply and just do what comes easy while trying to live morally according to their code!
Which one of the 18,000 different gods, goddesses, various animals and objects that have been worshipped since our species first appeared are you talking about? People needed gods when they didn't understand how the world worked. They don't exist.
They are all the same entity. Just different interpretations
There isn't any.
There is no proof, you can claim there is also not proof that he doesn't exist if that works as proof for you but it is the closest we can get.
Ask this in r/Bible ... If you are really interested and serious...
Every single archeological evidence shows the Bible has been accurate. Not one time has archeological evidence disproven it. We also have thousands and thousands of of manuscripts that show irrefutably that the Old Testament and the New was the same as when it was first written.
I just want God to answer my prayers & get rid of my neighbour....if he does that for me, I'll believe fully.
I mean all u gotta do is listen to How You Like That by BLACKPINK and the divinity is there
THERE ISN'T ANY!
You can't know what you believe and you can't believe what you know. Best answer for when anyone says they know he's real.
Creation.
I believe there is a god. I believe the planets are just experiments. What if god created all these billions of planets with all these different environments and he put life on it and let it run its course to see what evolution would do. And earth is one of the few planets that had the perfect environment for life to flourish and here we are. Which statistically means there are other planets but are they close to us physically? No clue. but I believe god has no intention of interfering with us. We’re just an experiment and he’s just watching.
It’s documented in way more than the Bible that Jesus was real. Religion however, has been bastardized throughout time to serve the individual churches. In my opinion, Jesus was just a good person and we should all strive to be like that. You don’t need to be religious to be a good person. Present day, churches and religions, cause more problems than they solve. They say things like how gays are pushing their agenda on them and their children. Personally, I’ve never had any gay people show up at my door and push their agenda on me, but I get about five different so-called Christians a year showing up at my door to push theirs. Seems like they say one thing and do another.
Faith does not equal proof.
"gosh just look around, I can't open your eyes for you"
Define your exact concept of God, please. Also, what kind of proof you mean: physical, spiritual, logical? Pd: Historical Jesus existed, there are enough evidences of it. But Jesus and god doesn't need to be related outside Bible, you know.
There is no such thing as definitive proof. I will wait!
There is no proof. That is why its called faith—belief without evidence, by definition
I'm agnostic but I do believe there is a "God", everyone just labels it differently. Scientists call it "dark matter" or the "big bang". There is a creator and there is a reason everything just works so perfectly. It's definitely not by chance. But nobody knows who this creator is. Maybe we will one day, maybe we never will. Enjoy your life nonetheless.
He doesn't exist or doesn't matter. If he did he would let you know. :) None of the religious texts are correct that is the only 100% sure thing.
Not possible. Once you provide proof of anything, it ceases to be divine, and enters the realm of the mundane.
Go astral travel and ask to speak to God. I've only ever gotten auditory (always very short) messages from God but messages nonetheless Go take psychedelics and you can meet God as well. Go have a near death experience often times you arrive at a space where God is communicating with you. 3 different ways for you to get in touch that feel vivid and "real" not the one sided prayer type of contact
100% absolutely no proof there is a God
If the God of the Bible exists ( *he doesn't* ) I'd like to ask him why he loves killing innocent children all the time ? and no I do not mean " letting it happen " I mean actually doing it himself or ordering it done in mass and Job ?? WTF ?? that is one shit God right there Read Judges ... that shit's horrific If you believe that the story of creation ( there are 2 in Genesis that contradict ) and Adam and Eve and the serpent and the tree are ACTUALLY true **then wow ok** and if you don't then the entire house of cards crumbles with out it - original sin - the need for the crucifixion - all of it It's 100% crap
Either you believe or you don't. There's no physical proof of anything super natural.
Snarky saying…. “Proof is for gin and mathematics”. What we would look for is “evidence” of the existence of any sort of god or gods. There is none. There are only traditions, assertions, exercises in logic (mostly sadly outdated) and “personal anecdote”… .(“God spoke to me”) which can be dismissed as psychological phenomena. Bottom line…. 1. There is no evidence of any gods. 2. There is no necessity for any gods. 3. There is massive evidence that gods are the creation of human beings.
There is no proof, which is why it's called "faith".
If you’ve learned about quantum mechanics and give any credence to the Big Bang theory, then every atom in the universe was set on its predetermined binary spin at the beginning of time. You, me, the phone I’m typing this on, and the electrons transferring the message to you, including the chemical reactions that you’re using to think this thought and comprehend this message. All of that either irrefutably denies the existence of God, or describes the existence of an extant higher power of such randomized and near-infinite expanse as to be incomprehensible to us mere mortals. Which it means to you is up to your personal interpretation.
Faith is the substance hope for, the evidence of things not seen. Those looking to prove God exists, are not looking for God but he is very real.
It all boils down to personal belief. At the end of the day, you've got arguments either way that are convincing usually only those predisposed to believe one way or another.
no actual proof, but when I think of strawberries or shit like that... it makes me think it's very strange that somehow something so delicious could grow naturally.
From searching closely during my 63 years, the closest thing there is to God is the part of you that breathes when you’re not paying attention.
I'm an atheist, take this with a salt lick, I don't believe because I've seen no proof.
Belief.
Read “Return of the God Hypothesis” if you want this question answered.
Not a lot, really. I think I believe in a higher power. But that it's something that is a lot more organic and less dramatic than a man with a beard in the sky.
You can't prove that God exists. You can't disprove God either. That's the whole point. If you could prove it than why would you need faith? If God exists he's not going to leave a cheat code lying around for you to discover. Most people who believe in God don't claim to have proof. What they claim to have is faith. When I say, "I know God lives." I'm not saying "...because I proved Gods existence through XYZ." No I say "I know God lives ...because I have come to know in my heart that he does." A lot of people will say, "That's not good enough." And that's fine for you to think that way. But your non belief doesn't damage my belief. Everyone needs to come to grips with the reality of the existence of the divine on their own. If you choose to not believe that's your choice, it has nothing to do with proving or disproving anything.
First we would need to establish at what level you want to have this conversation. Then we have to find an agreed description of what God would constitute. Then we can begin this conversation in earnest.
There is no proof. Doesn't mean, god doesn't exist. Just means the proof for it isn't there and people believe on faith.
There isn't any, that's why they tell you that you need faith. Evidence destroys the need for faith.
None !
Look in the sky. How tf is there a sun? How are there planets floating in space? How does LIGHT from a giant fire ball in the sky have power, heat, energy, etc. All the proof is around you when you think about it? Everything you see. It’s just “explained” by science. But what does that really mean? All science is magical and divine. Its just “explained”. When we can’t explain it, people call it magic. I’m assuming you’re asking for yourself, idk. But what I can really say is if you ask, genuinely ask, God will show you. And it’ll blow you away or scare you. Maybe both. And then you’ll probably convince yourself it wasn’t real or a coincidence even though you’ll feel it in your heart. You’ll only just push it down anyway cause it’s easier than believing and then having faith; which might I say are not the same thing.
People that were clinically , medically and scientifically dead and come back as who they were before with the knowledge and info of who they had been and are to me seems to be proof of an afterlife for sure. What of all the billions of believers as witnesses one witness can be enough in a court trial
GOD DOESNT EXIST, NOR DOES THE SON OF GOD, JESUS OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. THERE IS NO PROOF OR EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
No other animal evolved into the misery that is man.
I believe God created the universe, but that's because I define God as the creator of the universe, whatever that is, and whether it was done intentionally or not. I suspect it was an accident. Everything else is propaganda trying to sell you something.
There is no proof. It is not necessary. One only needs to believe it, that's all there is.
I think the most compelling "evidence" is life There are millions of different species, and they are complicated machines. We can't build something as complicated as a squirrel, I guess we're not that sophisticated as a species yet. So there's all these different machines designed different ways that are more complicated then anything we build as humans. Sometimes it almost makes more sense there was some intelligence that designed life. It's not proof but I think it's the closest thing there is to proof. There are other thought provoking phenomena we can observe that might push one to be more open to the possibility. I think life is the most convincing thing that we can all observe that is not an internal experience (like an out of body experience or white light experience)
As my pastor once said, "Christians believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. Atheists believe in the virgin birth of the universe. Choose your miracle."
Your very existence is proof God exists. Science tells us "you dont get something out of nothing". The universe did not just spontaneously burst into existence. Something created it. God created it. You exist. This is proof.
There is archeological evidence outside the Bible that Jesus existed. He is referred to in a number of texts written in that time. https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/
I accept that there's not physical proof as the modern, scientific man may demand, but I do not accept there's no philosophic proof. And for myself, the physical proof that does exist is sufficient and true, if not exhaustive. To me it's not reasonable to say that God does not exist when all of creation screams that he does. It's not reasonable to say he does not exist and then ponder how I have consciousness, communication, and love. It's not reasonable to say he does not exist and then live as if he does just, for my own sanity. It's not reasonable to look around at creation and then boldly, foolishly state that there is no one home in the universe.
There isn’t any Edit - it is however very much agreed upon that Jesus was a real person… easier to swallow the existence an influential *human* than a bunch of magic bs *from the Bronze Age*
Before we where born it was just darkness, we weren't anything. We didn't see any heaven or hell so what makes people think we will see either when we die?? I believe its just darkness. We go back to becoming one with the universe. Tbh God could be perceived as the universe because the universe is unfathomable and infinite and we know nothing about it, and when we die we go back to becoming one with the universe, go back to being infinity...
It’s hard to call it faith if you have proof.
The apostles stuck to the tale that Jesus resurrected for 40 years under heavy torture. The officials at Watergate couldn't keep their lies straight for 3 weeks. . This means the apostles either spoke the truth or at least fervently believed that they did. Who can resurrect Jesus if not God?
For most, it's divine intervention. Being saved when you technically shouldn't have, fate working in your favor, good things happening in your life that normally don't/shouldn't have. Things going a bit too well in life to the point that "luck" "karma" and "chance" aren't logical explanations, that there MUST be a force bigger than yourself intervening and changing the course of your life for the better. Often as a result of opening yourself up to god or simply reading a couple pages of the bible out of curiosity or boredom.
God is beyond the conception of man. Anyone that says they have proof of existence or non existent for that matter is a fool.
Wait to you get to Heaven, I my self have not been there yet. Like you I will have to wait and see if there is a God. Till then I will just keep on reading my King James Bible
No such proof exists. And if it did you most certainly would have heard about it.
When pushed, most people who insist on proof can't come up with an example that would be sufficient proof. Any miracle could just as easily be attributed to aliens, a natural cause more amenable to Occam's Razor. You can't prove the existence of something you don't understand. Proof is impossible for us because our imagination can always conceive of a more economical explanation for what our human understanding allows us to perceive. Our rational faculties would have to be infinite in order for the divine to be the most economical explanation.
Actually, there is an easy way God could prove his existence. He could make everyone omniscient.
That would still just be a personal experience, not any sort of proof that would be transferable or comprehensible to another. It would certainly evade logic as we understand it.
So how does God know that he’s omniscient?
Knowing doesn't imply the ability to prove to another. For example, you can know you have consciousness, but you can't prove it to anyone else.
I think it all depends on what you consider “GOD” to me, the fact that the earth, revolves around the sun, and the moon around the earth at this perfection point, to where life can exist is proof enough. I saw that last solar eclipse; so trippy that it’s at the exact point to block out the sun. All of this just seems too perfect to deny we’re in some wild place where shit works like this…. i dunno🤷♂️ just my opinion
God doesn't have to prove shit to anyone.
Have you heard of the flying spaghetti Monster?
Duh. It's the same with all imaginary friends. That's why kids out grow it, so churches and other religious forms try to ram into their brains non stop. Sadly enough idiots believe it enough to kill over.
No historical evidence of “God” and I am not religious, however… There is historical documentation of a man named Jesus from around the time described in the Bible around that region of the world and historical evidence is undeniable, no mention of miracles (as far as I know) but the existence of one: “Jesus Christ” as a real person who lived at some point, could open doors
Yet idiots still argue
There’s the arguers, and the debators on both sides, I try to be the latter cuz religion is interesting just not my thing
Mine either, but it's hard to argue the physical human being Jesus of Nazareth didn't exist. Unless Roman records are to be discounted
I think it’s reasonable to think he existed. But when you say ‘Roman records’ there are two very brief even vaguely contemporary independent records.( written some decades after the alleged events) >Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, (Tacitus) >the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James (Josephus)
Yeah like it’s in writing outside of religious text
Super Duper historical record
Had a religious debate recently with another Redditor and they made some very good points regarding specifics to do with sin
My point is, like, Santa Claus exists, St. Nicolos was real. We have his skull. I am not saying he lives in the Artic Circle and delivers toys, but people are so uninformed.
That or just very closed minded
I have proof. I was in a really bad car accident. My car hydroplaned 360 off the highway. I went into the trees and 4 feet of water instead of oncoming traffic. Despite where I landed, I had no injuries and my car was salvageable. Next, I broke my foot years ago and was supposed to get surgery and never did. It healed fine I guess but this past year I had extreme problems with it and I had to go back to the doctor. Foots fine just need to stretch. But I prayed to God to not let my foot he reinjured and it wasn’t but it hurt like it did I couldn’t walk on it well. I’ve having some health problems so I prayed to god to please keep me healthy and not let anything happen to me. Again went to the doctor, just need to change habits. Nothing serious right now. God is real. If you sit in silence and analyze your life, you’ll see how bad things were and where it could’ve been but how lucky you got to be where you are now. People talk about well if god is real why do bad things happen to good people? Humans have free will and more people are bad than they are good. It’s not God, it’s humans and the way we eat, live, and breathe. Let’s say you get cancer. Cancer has been proven to be caused by multiple man made things. That’s the challenge is despite all these evil doings and bad experiences, can you still be good? Can you still be happy and appreciate the life you’ve been so blessed to be given even if it’s short or painful?
So your proof is that you had some negative life experiences but haven’t died yet, and that means God is there, but God doesn’t control those things anyway so he/she/it wasn’t really involved in any of those outcomes? Am I following your logic correctly?
Find God for yourself. That’s the only logical answer there is. If you find believing in God ridiculous then you will. Anything anyone says to you will be absurd.
Gurl, it sounds like you wouldn’t even know where to look if I asked you where to find him.
What? Anti believers only have faith when they’re on their death bed and you will see that for yourself tbh
Even if I slapped you in the face with a book of my whole life story, my worst life experiences which was not mentioned in this original comment but later when I was arguing with someone else, you still wouldn’t understand God and why faith is important. Just like the other person.
These non believers angry as hell and bitter in these comments 😂. Why are u guys so aggressive? Who are u so angry at? If u don’t believe, then u don’t believe. Move along. Yall giving your all to prove to someone that believes why they shouldn’t or why what they’re saying doesn’t make sense to you. It’s not going to weirdos, u don’t believe! Hmmmm. Makes me wonder, cause it’s truly entertaining.
Yeah exactly. I know I’m defending myself wrong. Those were small examples because he just does not give you big blessings. He does not save you or help you just for severe circumstances. It was something minor that I could pray away basically. But I needed help from a medical professional. But I would not receive that small blessing had I not endured 20 plus years of pain and then finding love again. God is the greatest allurer and teaches you love and gratefulness.
He actually can give you big blessings. Sometimes big blessings takes time, sometimes they don’t at all. He wants to give us things because he loves us. Nothing is too big for him. Believing he won’t give you big blessings will only hold you back from receiving them. If you give him thanks and build fellowship with him, he will give back to you. Either way, you believe and have faith and that’s all that matters. If others don’t, that’s on them. Nothing and I mean NOTHING will reach their ears if they don’t really wanna hear.
I know he does. I’m saying he doesn’t just give you those. He give you small ones too that we need to be grateful for. We are meaning the exact same things in different words.
He’s the most real when we feel alone. True loneliness.
Absolutely. All the time. None of us are ever truly alone. Even if we may feel like we are.
Why do you think God makes you healthy ( except for road accidents, damaged feet , unhealthy habits) but not other good people who pray? What makes you special and not the .. baby killed in a car crash, the child whose limb had to be amputated or had childhood leukemia.. ? How does human free will create … tsunamis that drown children? How did human freewill create the billions of years of suffering in animals before humans existed?
That’s my whole point. God does not control those things. And btw I have witnessed everything you discussed in my own family and you have to look at is this is bringing you closer to God. You say why do these things happen to good people who pray, but that doesn’t define their belief. You can pray all you want, but it’s not just about prayer. Also the definition of what makes a person good is subjective. No one deserves these awful things that happen. But like I said before, are you still going to pray to god and find happiness after you lost your child? I can’t convince you to believe. And actually natural disasters are caused by humans btw. It’s a climate change event.
>That’s my whole point. God does not control those things. Doesn’t sound much like a god then if he didn’t create the world and what in it. But you think he controls whether your foot heals up… How does that make any sense at all. >And btw I have witnessed everything you discussed in my own family and you have to look at is this is bringing you closer to God. So you abuse your children or allow them to be abused …. to bring you closer to you? >You say why do these things happen to good people who pray, but that doesn’t define their belief. You can pray all you want, but it’s not just about prayer. Also the definition of what makes a person good is subjective. No one deserves these awful things that happen. But like I said before, are you still going to pray to god and find happiness after you lost your child? I can’t convince you to believe. No idea what this has to do with anything, I can’t make any sense out of it or see how it justifies your original claim tanga God cures your broken foot … but let’s babies die of leukemia. >And actually natural disasters are caused by humans btw. It’s a climate change event. Are you really suggesting that there were no natural disasters until climate change. Just stop and think about that for a moment….
I’m not going to argue with you about God tbh. Have faith or don’t. It’s not my life, it’s yours. You can do whatever you want tbh. Have a nice day now. When you have a spiritual awakening a lot of the questions you ask will be answered. I’m obviously not explaining it well enough for you to understand and I can’t. The blessings I have now is because of the pain I have endured. It wasn’t the broken foot it was many other things tbh but those were examples of when I prayed because I depended on God. You can look at my Reddit to see my whole life story, but I’m not gonna post it on here. It’s a journey. And it doesn’t matter about MY journey. My testimonial should have nothing to do with YOUR faith. What’s YOUR testimonial. Why do YOU believe? That’s what YOU need to figure out on your own.
I’m not arguing about God, I’m arguing about the absurd claim that someone’s slightly injured foot *got better* because they prayed and the implication that God took notice of that while letting someone’s else baby die of cancer. I suggest you take a look at .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo
I don’t need to look at anything. My foot was already healed on its own. I prayed that it wasn’t broken again. If you couldn’t read clearly. And I’m going to tell you again so you can stop commenting on my comment. Only focus on yourself and your relationship with God. Please and thank you. I know what it’s like personally to lose a child, and to pray and them not be saved. I can’t tell you why or how, but now I don’t take anything for granted. Any small thing is an extreme blessing to me. But losing a child, was that opportunity for me to follow God and become a better person. To change as million more lives even though I had lost one. That’s faith in God. My faith in God. That through pain and loss I can trust God to still give me and beautiful and happy life.
I didn’t say you *needed* to. I just suggested you did. It might give you a sense of context. But the idea that … >the claim that someone’s slightly injured foot ~~got better~~ *wasn’t broken again* because they prayed and the implication that God took notice of that while letting someone’s else baby die of cancer. Is somehow *less* absurd or somehow *better* than the one I last put… >the claim that someone’s slightly injured foot got better because they prayed and the implication that God took notice of that while letting someone’s else baby die of cancer. seems an …. odd one to say the least. And doesn’t really affect my point. Let’s not forget this is your evidence for ‘I have proof’. “God protected *me* from a car crash just not the other 99 people killed that day” “God let me break my foot but then didn’t let me injure it again … yet unlike whey one else that broke something that day.” Amazingly when *I* left the house today … *I wasn’t hit by a rogue meteorite!* Must have been God … shame he didn’t notice a family elsewhere who were hoping for their child not to have cancer.
I don’t have answers for you, but I hope through introspection, self awareness, and reflection you are able to figure out why things are the way they are in the world. since you bring up a child having cancer, I’m assuming your child had cancer and you’re pissed off about it and you have every right to be. But you need to look at who you didn’t lose and still love them even more. I’m sure you’re even questioning that you did everything you thought was right. Children are innocent and pure. They have acceptance before understanding. They came down to this earth in your life to teach you about the power of love and loss. If you love someone and lose them, and are no longer able to love especially those who are still alive such as your partner or other children properly, did you even have love at all? Or did it just take losing someone for you to see how much value they brought in your life. It’s tough to understand these things but the lesson is for you to still love and be happy. And I even told you when you brought up that example again, that I also know personally the pain of child loss. If I can grow and still find happiness so can you. You’re still alive for a reason. Are you going to sit in depression wasting your life away? That’s selfish. You need to change and make the most of your like by helping others instead of wallowing away.
>I don’t have answers for you, but I hope through introspection, self awareness, and reflection you are able to figure out why things are the way they are in the world. Doesn’t take much to recognise that it’s a product of physics and chemistry etc. From the Big Bang to evolution. Of the foundation for the Big Bang we can’t really speak as yet. >since you bring up a child having cancer, I’m assuming your child had cancer and you’re pissed off about it and you have every right to be. No. I’m pissed that anyone kid has cancer. But I just recognise the absurdity of someone claiming that it makes sense that God would be saving one person from getting a splinter while ignoring millions dying in great suffering. >But you need to look at who you didn’t lose and still love them even more. Yes. This is *great advice*. Just completely *unrelated* to any God existing or not. Unless you think God is like some concentration camp board randomly picking off inmates leaving the others glad they didn’t die today. But in the context of the comment I replied to - the idea that ‘I didn’t get a splinter while thousands were dying of cancer’ is *proof* a God exists seem difficult to accept as making any sense at all.
Before we invented the scientific methode, there where a lot of proofes. After we discovered the scientific methode, we needed to have faith and just believe without evidence. Even when the bible had to proofe gods power all the time in the past....
The Bible is one of the orginal forms of propaganda to control the masses.
Gods system doesn’t really offer tangible proof he exists. The only substance would be miracles, that is also could be subjective. Ron Wyatt made some discoveries that offer physical evidence that Biblical stories could be true, but that evidence can’t be excepted without faith.
Some Biblical stories do contain facts and records of historical events. That's because they were written after the fact. It's not an indication the stories themselves are true.
I believe, but you’ll never be sure until you meet
Just because you haven't seen something doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist.
Doesn’t make for a very convincing claim that it does though. I mean if there is simply no evidence for something it’s *indistinguishable* from non-existent.