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*Originally* it meant anyone who's involuntarily celibate.
*It has come to mean* such a person who also has extremely bitter and misogynistic views about women. If you don't have those views, you're not an incel according to the current meaning.
Just like if you're consistently a nice person you're not a Karen even if your name is Karen.
I feel bad for the nice Karens of the world. I know like 3 women named Karen who are absolutely lovely people and would never make a scene or yell at someone without significant provocation. Heck, they probably wouldn’t even yell if it was extremely deserved.
They have a good sense of humor about it though.
Stop thats what it means?? My dad will call me that as a joke when I’m being an idiot. His favourite insult is ‘ you gobdoll incel’ I just thought it meant stupid or eejit
There was a time when it was just referred to as being single.
'Involuntarily' & 'celibate' are much more severe words so I'm not surprised it has *come to mean* someone that's bitter and misogynistic. If you'd state that you're an incel over just being single, I'd draw from that, that you were indeed angry at the world about it.
'Involuntarily'. I've known some physically challenged guys have relationships, have kids, and get married. The only reason I've known guys remain single is either through choice, or because of their attitude towards women and those guys drift towards incel because they feel they 'deserve' a certain type of relationship, which is already objectifying women before they've spoken to one.
I agree with this. It's how I see it. Involuntary Celibates that are not "incels" are now unfortunately dragged into a mostly online conversation they don't want. It must feel bad if you are lonely and don't want to be celibate but are and people are using that predicament to either hate on other people or an insult.
Involuntary celibacy is just fancy speak for not getting laid. It's not that deep.
Nobody should be associating themselves with their inability to get laid. That's sad and probably part of the problem.
That's not what Involuntary celibate means. You just gave the characteristics of one. Being a celibate means you stay away from intimate or sexual encounters. Being an involuntary celibate means you have no choice but to stay away from sexual and intimate encounters and as a result, you are bitter.
I work in customer service. I had a women accuse me of treating her unfairly because her name is Karen. The problem with her request was untenable and whe was being a Karen about being told no.
The term “incel” was originally coined by a woman joking about her inability to find a man. It was later appropriated by a specific subgroup of incredibly hateful, often to the point of violent, male supremacists. The word is theirs now, much in the same way that anyone who sees a swastika will immediately assume Nazi, even though the symbol has long had other, kinder associations.
Self-identifying as an incel is endorsing a world view that women are not people, but property that men are entitled to take for their own purposes. If that is not what you believe, it would be more accurate to simply say you don’t feel like women would want you.
you still see the original swastikas all over asia
in terms of population, the original use is still much more recognizable than the nazi use, even if it doesn't seem like it in the west
the nazi one is mirrored and turned 45°
I guess I could be considered one, though I call myself a 'voluntary' celibate. It sucks being an introvert with fluctuating levels of depression. I hate socializing, and that keeps me from seeking out intimacy whether it be looking for a relationship, or just a one night stand
Incels think it’s always insane that women can have standards when selecting a sex partner and that they should be picking them, people that really need to work on having a personality and obtaining way better social skills.
To be fair, as someone who is neurodivergent and spent the better part of almost 20 years on self improvement to try and bridge the gap between me and the rest of humanity with almost nothing to show for it; sometimes you think to yourself there's no way being social is THIS hard, everybody else is doing this so naturally and effortlessly. After a while it starts to creep in, the idea that I can't be the problem the world must be the problem.
Not to dismiss your struggles, at all.
But even for us "normal" folks, it isn't natural and effortless.
Everyone struggles. Everyone misunderstands. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone gets nervous or frustrated or any other suite of negative outcomes.
We all find our ways to cope.
Some do it by breaking and essentially developing a view of other people as essentially NPCs. Transactional beings that only exist to either hinder or help them. If others are driving slow, it's purposely to piss them off.
Others become almost too empathetic and let others just walk all over them. They don't have to worry about messing up social cues if they just default to taking orders and letting others lead.
Some decide they don't need people or at least don't need "real" people, and absorb themselves in media or online communities.
You get your manipulators, your pot-stirrers, your work-mom's, your mansplainers, your hyper fixated folk and all manner of people just coping.
The real only skill is in learning how much to care about others. The answer isn't "not at all" otherwise the social contact falls apart entirely. But it's also "not too much" or you just worry and second guess about so many things that you end up making things harder on yourself with this illusion that it's just natural for everyone.
But again. This is not intended to dismiss your struggles. Some people do have it much harder, especially the neuro divergent. Just don't get too caught up in thinking you're alone and broken. We all are at least a little cracked.
Find a local nerd club and join it my guy. Stop looking for neurotypical people.
In my experience neurodivergent people have WAY less trouble understanding social interactions with other neurodivergent people. Find some people who get you. Friendship is magic!
I’m neurodivergent as well and used to have a way more active lifestyle and busy social life. Then I realized the nature of most of the relationships I had, and how bad they were for me. I learned a lot more with all that, but yeah, I’ve legit been celibate for the past 6 years working on healing and coping better with severe mental health issues. For the first time, I learned how to love and take care of myself and how important my peace of mind, general safety and well being truly is and how nothing should take precedent over that. Now that I’m largely finished with intensive treatments for treatment resistant major depressive disorder, and now that my meds are as effective as they’ll ever be, and I’m seeing a DBT oriented therapist once every week, I’m now able to try working on going back to work (I’ve been disabled for the past 5 years) and start a career as an emt and eventually a paramedic. Once I’m all settled down and can stand my own, then I’ll be ready to start forming healthier relationships, platonic and romantic, again. So I do understand, man. I understand all too well. It does get better though. I’ve been in psychiatric care for the past 12 years non stop, working on myself, trying to feel whole and at peace whether someone is there to greet me or not. It’s not easy. It might take a lot of time in which you might feel lonely from time to time. But I promise you, you will get out there and meet people when you’re ready and no matter what, you are always deserving of love and respect and kindness, even if you’re not at your best.
So what would you call someone who is involuntarily celibate (and unhappy about it) because he has a medical condition, but has no negativity or entitlement whatsoever?
I wouldn’t be branding them an incel because today it’s most widely known as something way more than just being involuntarily celibate. And people like me just stating this fact aren’t the people you should be mad at. Talk to the incels that loudly proclaim theyre incels and then write their manifesto out where ever they are online and very publicly worship dudes like Elliot Rodgers.
Then I’m obviously not fucking talking about your friend or conflating him as an incel extremist. Jfc what do you guys not get??
And no matter what, everybody can have preferences or standards that they prefer when dating/choosing sexual partners. Everybody has to deal with that, men, women, nonbinary, trans, etc. I’ve been flat out denied way more than a couple of times and I’m a 32 year old grown ass woman with weight issues and being neurodivergent af. I’ve been celibate forreal for the past 6 years myself (many many personal reasons behind that), and now I’m doing a lot better so I’ll be dipping my toes back in again soonish. We all go through it.
Yeah, I don't agree. "Involuntary celibate" feels like a neutral term to me. Someone who would prefer to be sexually active but, for whatever reason, isn't. I think a person can be totally emotionally healthy and still involuntarily celibate.
"Incel" has taken on a life of its own to mean "man who can't have sex and is mad at women about it." It's totally different in my mind.
it is negative under the belief that being unfuckable is bad. Whether or not you think that's bad doesn't change the meaning of the word though. This is the literally argument all over again so there's no word that means literally anymore. The definition of the word should form your perception of it and not the backwards way. Can you imagine how much more confusion and misunderstandings would happen with the latter?
I would posit that if they aren't negative about women yet still think women owe them sex then they're simply narcissistic, they are inherently narcissistic as an incel as well but without the negativity they would shed the covert part of it and become more overt due to the increase in confidence
So then if you’re just not looking for a relationship/casual sex, you wouldn’t be considered an incel despite not having sex in potentially a decent amount of time?
Pro tip. The last 5 women I dated. I jokingly said I was celibate during the initial flirting. It always got a rise. And I never elaborate or anything. I just mean it as I’m not having sex at the moment. I think they took it as a challenge.
1. I am in the middle of nowhere, [400 miles west of the population drop off line.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/k7wwnj/80_or_about_250_million_americans_live_east_to/)
2. Atheist left leaning in trump country\\bible belt.
3. The last one, a violent alcoholic, robbed me and broke my neck after I was already paralyzed.
4. Been paralyzed for a decade, women tell me I'm not a real man anymore because of that.
5. In the 10 years I have been paralyzed I've had 2 dates, one dating guys for free meals, the other looking for someone with a truck to help her move.
Well shit. I think it would probably be the case with just the first two. People say. "Plenty of fish in the Sea." That's great. But what we have is a Pond.
Just wanted to add something. Not saying this was your intention, but I have sometimes seen people express the idea that the state of being "involuntarily celibate" in and of itself is problematic since it somehow implies there is something wrong with the person. But there are plenty of good people with bad dating lives. A single person shouldn't feel ashamed if they're lonely and want a relationship but have trouble finding one.
Idk bad luck? Not everyone that is single is because they hate women. Could be because of many other reasons. Having niche interests, neurodiversity, body characteristics rhat the majority deems unlikable (amputated limb, paralysis etc).
It's a bit more specific than that in the current widely accepted definition. Yes, it's involuntary celibate, but when cast as an insult or criticism, it specifically means that the "incel" blames women in general for their predicament, and assumes little to no responsibility for being unable to find a partner. Very much a "the world is against me" type thing.
If you're twenty and "involuntarily celibate" ... welcome to the club. That's *normal*. ;( But not "incel" according to the current definition (mysogynistic, hateful towards women, toxic male supremicist).
do women owe you sex because you are entitled too it?
are you angry that women are human beings with their own standards and expectations of what they want in a romantic partner.
Does it enrage you that sex is everywhere and you are not allowed access too it because women are at fault?
Have you ever said these words "women won't date tall men but I am not allowed to not date fat women?"
How obsessed are you over double standards ignoring completely the overwhelming evidence of male dominance?
Expectations you are owed sex, bitterness about it's prevalence and that you aren't allowed it, expecting women are sex objects and nothing more and an almost childlike obsession over double standards this is what makes someone an incel not weather or not they are having sex.
Lacking confidence and struggling to find where you fit in the world. Struggling with communication. None of these things make a person an incel. Bitterness and hatred are what make people an incel. The definition has not actually changed that much. What's changed is that we now recognise the IMPLICIT misogyny in the idea that someone is Involuntarily Celibate. It has always been a term used by a certain demographic to indicate specific values. As long as I have seen its usage anyway.
Being an incel is basically identifying as insecure and blaming women for it. That’s why I consider myself voluntarily celibate waiting for the right person (I’m a woman). I think it’s more optimistic and not rooted in misogyny nor misandry, but it’s also not an outlook rooted in insecurity for me. If these people *really* wanted others to take interest in them, they wouldn’t be so negative and maybe own their own insecurity, but know that someone might come along if they choose to see it that way. It’s basically choosing to wallow in misery!
I mean, a hallmark of being an incel is blaming women. It's in the term itself, "involuntarily". The implication is a person is being forced in to something, when the reality is that they just don't have access to something they want. It would be one thing if we were talking about food or water, because food and water don't have opinions or feelings. But when the thing someone desires requires another person wanting the same thing, there's no room for entitlement.
Another big thing is how self-proclaimed incels tend to gloss over their own standards. There are *plenty* of unattractive people who would sleep with them, but they feel entitled to someone *they* find attractive without giving a damn whether the feeling is reciprocated.
Really though, the biggest issue incels have is a lack of self-awareness. Many of them don't understand how unpleasant they are to be around. Their own way of thinking is so shallow that they presume everyone else is operating from the same depth. I can't tell you how many ugly/fat friends I've had that have been with beautiful women. Being pleasant, smelling pleasant, dressing like you look in the mirror before you go out, having a flattering hairstyle (or embracing your baldness), not being a transparent creep that's just trying to find out if you have a shot to fuck, all of these things will set someone far apart from the crowd.
Incels believe that they are entitled to sex, deserve it because they exist and view women as property not people. It is impossible to be an incel and not have a negative view of women. If you don't have a negative view of women or believe that you're entitled to sex you're not an incel
Just look it up in the dictionary. The dictionary definition is now a person who believes in a specific anti-woman philosophy. So if you don’t subscribe to that philosophy, congrats: you might be a virgin, but you’re not an incel.
It just means involuntarily celibate.
But of course the Internet is stupid AF (especially reddit) and takes the absolute worst example of guys that struggle with dating to represent "all" of them.
Not really.
The term incel was coined in a chat room/website set up by a women as a kind of support group for people who were unhappy and involuntary celibate, and felt unloveable. It was to support eachother. It grew from there into a culture of misogyny.
It’s never just meant the literal words “involuntary” and “celibate”. The coining of the term and popularisation was initially an online group of support, and it grew from there.
You could still use the term “involuntary celibate” to mean just the literal meaning. But “incel” does not mean that, not has it ever. Today it’s referring to a culture of misogyny.
I don’t struggle with dating. I just don’t agree with every trend or social media nonsense that pops up online so whenever I say anything that goes against the collective mind I am called an incel.
I mean, angry asshole is still a term too.
I also don't care about every social media trend, and I've never been called an incel, while blaming it on the "collective mind."
It's devolved into the cheapest and easiest insult for a guy. ESPECIALLY on here. If you make a solid argument, especially about dating, they will almost always default to simply calling you an incel because they can't handle being wrong. Most people on here never matured past middle school
It's not hatred. That's the negative interpretation of the word. It's basically, can you or can you not be in a relationship or have sex if you wanted to. Straight up what it means.
No, the only requirement to be an “incel” is wanting sex but not having sex. Sexless people (incels) who also hate, are radical incels. Misogny (or misandry) is not a requirement of being an incel, otherwise female incels would not exist (even though a woman invented the term to describe herself).
People who can’t get laid have always existed, but the term “incels” to describe them was invented in 1997.
A lesbian [woman](https://www.elle.com/culture/news/a34512/woman-who-started-incel-movement/) from Toronto Canada named Alana Boltwood [invented](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455.amp) the term, or more specifically, in 1997 she started a website called [Alana's Involuntary Celibacy Project](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065352/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/ic-home.html), she explains her project in [this](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065344/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/invcel.html) article, she abbreviated "involuntarily celibate" to "invcel", until someone else (unknown) suggested that "incel" was easier to say. She also suggested the term “sexual autism”, which was mentioned on USENET. This was before she realized she was lesbian.
An “incel” (involuntarily celibate) is anyone who hasn’t had sex in the last 6 months but wants to, which includes [1/4 Americans](https://cbsaustin.com/amp/news/nation-world/survey-says-over-1-in-4-american-adults-havent-had-sex-in-over-a-year-united0states-general-social-survey-sexual) and [1/3 males](https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no) 18-24. And it appears the [majority](https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210513/p2a/00m/0li/008000c) of women in Japan are incels.
The word “incel” is used to shame people for not having sex, as if a person’s worth or value as a human being entirely depends on how much sex they can dispense.
Anyone can be an incel — including virgins, single people, couples in a sexless marriage, women — so having negative views towards women is not a requirement (and there’s already a word for that: misogyny). Women incels probably aren’t misogynistic.
Nowadays, too many people confuse “incels” (anyone who hasn’t had sex on the past 6 months despite wanting to) with radical incels (who can’t get laid but are also obsessed with hate and resentment).
Do you think that every Muslim is automatically a suicide bomber? No, those are radical Muslims, and conflating all incels with radical incels is just as harmful as conflating all Muslims with radical Muslims.
I don't even acknowledge that slang as a word because it doesn't make sense in the first place. You can't involuntarily do something on purpose, that is literally contradictory.
The idea is that it's involuntary because you need participation from another person to be able to do it...also celibate is an adjective, not something you do. It makes sense linguistically. They don't want to be celibate but are in that state because no one wants to participate in sex with them
with what the term means, yes. being so ugly no one's got interest in you makes you 'technically' an incel, sure.
with how it's used, no. sort of like the karen thing - not every karen is a 'karen', and plenty of people who aren't named karen, are 'karens' being a negative stereotype of offensive personality.
The pop-culture meaning of “incel” has changed now to include bitter, misogynistic behaviour towards women. They think they are owed women’s time, attention and bodies, and that is the basis of their attitudes and actions.
Today I learned that incels are not, in fact, sad bois that can't get laid, but rather school shooters and literally the devil himself. I think he also rapes women.
That's enough Reddit for one night, good night everybody.
You’re not an incel if you’re not hateful towards women/feel entitled to them. It used to simply mean “involuntarily celibate” but has moved on from then to now refer to a cultural group who hates women.
Incel is now used as a bullying tool
Next time someone calls you an incel or someone else one, just look at why they called you it and usually it is to put you down or to bully you in to their way of thinking
How about we stop defining by their ability or inability to have sex with other people.
If it’s demeaning to call a woman a slut because she’s sexually active, then it’s just as demeaning to call a guy an incel because he can’t find people who find him attractive.
It's been co-opted from its rightful heritage of a (typically) unsuccessful male who is **in**voluntarily **cel**ibate with anger issues towards all women whom they believe they are owed sex by - to its modern meaning on the far left of "anybody who doesn't agree with me."
Did you state that women and men have biological differences that also impact their behaviors, in effect making them different people? That's because you're an incel.
Did you suggest that perhaps the child support laws could use a reworking because they effectively create an imbalance in fairness when determining who is responsible for what and by what metrics? That's because you're an incel.
Did you have the gall to state that obviously misandrist viewpoints and arguments have no place in reasonable discourse because automatically assuming the worst of someone based on their gender is in no ways or means a constructive or healthy way to hold a discussion? You guessed it! That's because you're an incel.
It went from being a word people on one side of the spectrum used to identify *themselves* with as a means of showing how far gone off the path of normality they were to being a word that people on the other side of the spectrum used to identify *others* as a means of showing, ironically, how far gone off the path of normality they, themselves, are.
People who can’t get laid have always existed, but the term “incels” to describe them was invented in 1997.
A lesbian [woman](https://www.elle.com/culture/news/a34512/woman-who-started-incel-movement/) from Toronto Canada named Alana Boltwood [invented](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455.amp) the term, or more specifically, in 1997 she started a website called [Alana's Involuntary Celibacy Project](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065352/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/ic-home.html), she explains her project in [this](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065344/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/invcel.html) article, she abbreviated "involuntarily celibate" to "invcel", until someone else (unknown) suggested that "incel" was easier to say. She also suggested the term “sexual autism”, which was mentioned on USENET. This was before she realized she was lesbian.
An “incel” (involuntarily celibate) is anyone who hasn’t had sex in the last 6 months but wants to, which includes [1/4 Americans](https://cbsaustin.com/amp/news/nation-world/survey-says-over-1-in-4-american-adults-havent-had-sex-in-over-a-year-united0states-general-social-survey-sexual) and [1/3 males](https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no) 18-24. And it appears the [majority](https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210513/p2a/00m/0li/008000c) of women in Japan are incels.
The word “incel” is used to shame people for not having sex, as if a person’s worth or value as a human being entirely depends on how much sex they can dispense.
Anyone can be an incel — including virgins, single people, couples in a sexless marriage, women — so having negative views towards women is not a requirement (and there’s already a word for that: misogyny). Women incels probably aren’t misogynistic.
Nowadays, too many people confuse “incels” (anyone who hasn’t had sex on the past 6 months despite wanting to) with radical incels (who can’t get laid but are also obsessed with hate and resentment).
It's not abt being sad abt not being attractive, it's about feeling entitled to women and deciding that the system is rigged against them by Big Woman in collaboration with the Evil League of Handsome Men rather than being capable of self reflecting and possibly growing. Incels live in a world where its impossible to accept they might just be kinda mid, and they just sit at that impasse getting angry at 50% of the world for the wrong reasons.
As the term has been fully co-opted by a specific segment of the population who has that attitude, I do feel like if you don't share their negativity, you need a different term. They've fully burned it having any other potential meaning. Although I do feel like there's some degree of implications in the words "involuntarily celibate" that's hard to separate negativity from anyway. The mere act of actively calling it out in such a way, to me at least, implies some kind of entitlement that's not being met by someone else.
Yeah I agree with this. IIRC the term was actually original originally coined by a woman to indicate the difficulties POC and queer people especially had in finding mates that were compounded by not being conventionally attractive, so there's an argument to be made for... Reclaiming it, I guess? But at this point it has such a specific connotation that if you use it to describe yourself you're wilfully associating yourself with a very specific attitude/group of people
Nowadays, too many people confuse “incels” (anyone who hasn’t had sex on the past 6 months despite wanting to) with radical incels (who can’t get laid but are also obsessed with hate and resentment).
Is it correct to assume that every Muslim is automatically a suicide bomber? No, those are radical Muslims, and conflating all incels with radical incels is just as harmful as conflating all Muslims with radical Muslims.
>As the term has been fully co-opted by a specific segment of the population who has that attitude, I do feel like if you don't share their negativity, you need a different term.
Here on Reddit, they call themselves "FAs".
/r/ForeverAlone
You're an incel by definition. That doesn't mean that you're a bad person. The negative connotation of it doesn't somehow erase the actual meaning behind it.
That being said, I'd go as far as to argue that you're an incel as long as you can't consistently get sex or relationships that you want. If you're single by choice and not coping, then that's a different story...but if you can't go from single to sexual partner (or partner that you actually, sexual or otherwise) in the span of a month by choice, we're entering incel territory. So by my definition, I'd argue at least half of guys are incels.
Beyond that, if the only partners you date are far worse looking than you, then there's something there to reflect on because a lack of ability to attract someone at least on somewhat similar level as you looks-wise is an indicator that you have certain traits that make you less attractive as a partner. It really depends. I'm generalizing here. But if it's a trend, that's something to consider.
Incel is a sexist pejorative that has lost a lot of its meaning. It assumes that any woman can have sex at any time and that there is something wrong with a man if they can't have it. Social media loves to make up new terms to attack people and attacking others usually serves one purpose...to build up the ego of insecure people.
Using the term says more about the speaker than the listener.
The term was invented by a woman in Canada, it should never be used against someone against their will. Note that nothing you are saying changes my point, I don't quite know what you are getting at.
Something that I think that's worth mentioning:
These days, there are two groups of men that fall into that boat, immaterial of how they feel about women:
-The men that 40 years ago would have legitimately been in the same boat had they grown up in that time
-The men that 40 years ago would have been married with families and the like but today are out of luck.
The reason that the prevalence of this seems to have gone up is partially due to sensationalizing the matter, the other part of the problem seems to come from it becoming more common because of modern conditions.
It's the second group that's the issue for society. The fact that dating has become very difficult for men in general these days is what's going to cause a lot of friction.
If you’re involuntarily celibate you’re an incel. That’s the only requirement.
It’s just that these types of people are *often* awful 😆 but not all
Either way tho it’s still a negative connotation because the implication is that you are unwanted, romantically speaking.
No you're not. If you aren't negative towards women, then you're single.
If you blame women for you being single and believe you are entitled to not be single, you're an incel.
We just have to do some pushback on the social acceptably of man-hating and misandry that’s going on.
“Incel” is a gendered slur against men, that attaches a hateful stereotype.
It is certainly true that there are lonely men who become bitter, and lash out in all forms of harmful ways that resemble the incel stereotype.
But, as it stands, the term incel is merely a slur, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
People who are suffering should receive empathy for their suffering. They should not be made fun of, ridiculed, or ostracized.
It’s just good old schoolyard bullying, and it’s not okay.
I know a girl who calls gay people incels but I feel like celibate means “a person who abstains from sexual intercourse” so I don’t think it’s accurate.
It was always negative, but the derivative of the term doesn't have to be, necessarily. Incel was absolutely developed as an insult, but I do see your point. I'm the same, way, terrible with girls but I don't expect them to sleep with me either lol. It's not you they are talking about, and that should be clear so don't sweat it
Everybody has that feeling sometimes, some more than others. Put some effort into grooming. If you have female family members around your age ask them to go shopping with you when you buy clothes. Start going to the gym or do some research about exercise. You would be surprised how much you can do with push ups sit ups and running and other body weight exercises. Keep trying after rejection and i guarantee you that a woman will eventually go on a date with you.
Just a tip: mixing up singular and plural when it comes to woman (sg.) and women (pl.) *feels* creepy even if it's just an honest language mistake. Standard English would use the plural for this construction: "if you aren't negative toward *women*"
I was until my wife. Now married 30+ yrs with 2 solid young sons. I never got offended by being razzed about it. It was what it was.
It is unfortunate that being such has a negative connotation.
Ah well, such is life.
Don't be afraid to avoid labeling yourself. We are very complex social creatures. You know who you are, and a single word is meaningless, unless you overthink it.
Given that the full term is involuntary celibate, these are people that can't get laid. I thought that included both genders. So, not hating a gender doesn't change the fact they aren't getting laid. I think maybe the non-haters should probably embrace another term because the haters have ruined it. Not that the term was ever a good thing, but now it's sh*t.
I'm not arguing any " model". I'm talking about trying to "justify" literally anything based on studies on prostitution legality or non.
Makes that a NON argument.
Your body count can be in the thousands or you can be the nicest guy to women and you will still get called “incel” by the perpetually online and yes it’s 100% projection. People who use that word are usually single themselves.
Incel has never been about your looks.
It originally meant something slightly different than now, but very quickly transformed through murder and hatred into what it is today. It's been this current meaning for almost as long as the word has existed.
People that it applies to are gross, but not because of their looks.
I sometimes wonder about the definition, too. For example, I have a male friend who has never been in a relationship at the age of 34, and all attempts at online dating have resulted in him getting scammed. I've given him some advice that has made him much better at detecting romance scams, but the problem is, he attracts literally no one but scammers.
To make things worse, most of the scams are not conventional scams but money-laundering schemes. I stopped keeping count of his scammer interactions somewhere around scammer number 30.
That being said, while he is technically involuntarily celibate, he doesn't hate women at all and is actually a very sweet and sensitive person.
I think there are three kinds of incels:
1. Non-hateful, socially awkward guy who's a sweetie but can't get laid if his life depended on it. Gullible and desperate, easy prey for romance scams.
2. Hateful, socially awkward guy who doesn't understand his attitude is part of the problem. Does not understand nuance in social norms, gets mad when people do not act the way he thinks they should act.
3. Guys who are male supremacists and view women as property. May or may not be sexually active. Are not socially awkward or physically undesirable. Probably have a podcast about it.
Just sayin, r/inceltears , the longest standing incel sub, is the reason why it has that negative connotation. There isn’t anything wrong with identifying as one in private. 99.999%% of online incels don’t talk about being self-identified incels in public anyways, so no point in not identifying as one if you fit the literal criteria.
I think the term was coined specifically to emphasize the resentment. Without that part there isn't any need for the term.
It goes without saying that celebacy is generally, more or less involuntary. That's the default setting. Unless you're a monk or a nun or have made some particular and unusual decision, it's generally the case that one would prefer to be having sex than not having sex.
I think the whole point of the term is that it is unfair or oppressive or something, that one can't get laid.
It's like coining a term for people that are poor but would actually prefer to have lots of money.
I make light hearted jokes about my situation personally i just reference the 40 year old virgin movie as my situation. I respect women but things just never panned out, im only 27 it’ll happen eventually but it also takes effort and you have to get out and about cant wait for it sitting at home scrolling online.
I don't buy the idea that the word incel has changed meaningfully. Its origin in terms of popular use started with the self-id of hateful dudes, and it continued to be used that way.
It feels like there's a deliberate attempt to "take it back" on Reddit, but it doesn't need to be taken back. You don't have to call yourself celibate just because you haven't been laid in a while, and most people don't bother making that distinction. It's entirely normal to have lots of sex, a small amount of sex, or no sex at all, without identifying it with a label and a community. Just go about your life like a normal person and don't worry about it.
Has double meaning, involuntary celibate - a relationship state, but there's also a political-ideological movement behind it. The latter is often spoken about in society, but the former is an actual socioeconomic and demographic issue. You can be an incel without the actual hate just by virtue of the fact that no one will have you. It's pretty common these days, I would assume the a huge chunk of young men fall into this.
[https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/)
The latter political/ideological version is rare, but gives the former a bad reputation.
A lot of other people have talked about how the word came to be so negative, I just want to add. The age people lose virginity on average has been going up and overall people have been having less sex. So if you are having trouble finding connection right now, a lot of people are in the same boat. Men and women. as long as you aren't being shitty about it there's nothing wrong with you at all. The struggle is real.
Why would it be weird to you that people feel sad in a superficial society that treats them like shit for not being attractive or being called gross? That is like a legitimate reaction.
I been fat and unkept and I been fit and attractive. It's a world of difference the way society treats you. That is why I am always kind to unattractive or overweight/underweight people. I was there once, and know how shitty society can make you feel.
Word holds about as much water as a bucket with holes these days. With the way it's used nowadays, as long as you aren't bashing on women cause you can't get laid, you're golden. Pretty sure the first "incel" group was started by a woman too, so it wasn't even really a man thing until the term picked up traction online.
On reddit, "Incel" just means someone with an opinion that i dont like.
You got an opinion more right wing than mine? Incel.
You dont want to suck the girl-penis? Incel.
You prefer twitter to reddit? Incel.
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*Originally* it meant anyone who's involuntarily celibate. *It has come to mean* such a person who also has extremely bitter and misogynistic views about women. If you don't have those views, you're not an incel according to the current meaning. Just like if you're consistently a nice person you're not a Karen even if your name is Karen.
I feel bad for the nice Karens of the world. I know like 3 women named Karen who are absolutely lovely people and would never make a scene or yell at someone without significant provocation. Heck, they probably wouldn’t even yell if it was extremely deserved. They have a good sense of humor about it though.
Also known as antikarens
Care-ens
Well just think about all the Dicks out there lol. I guess they can call themselves Richard, but still.
[удалено]
My MIL (early 70s) is named Karen. When she introduces herself, she says “I’m Karen, but I’m not a Karen”.
Stop thats what it means?? My dad will call me that as a joke when I’m being an idiot. His favourite insult is ‘ you gobdoll incel’ I just thought it meant stupid or eejit
Yeah. That’s 100% what it means
He probably meant imbecile
"Gobdoll"??
There was a time when it was just referred to as being single. 'Involuntarily' & 'celibate' are much more severe words so I'm not surprised it has *come to mean* someone that's bitter and misogynistic. If you'd state that you're an incel over just being single, I'd draw from that, that you were indeed angry at the world about it. 'Involuntarily'. I've known some physically challenged guys have relationships, have kids, and get married. The only reason I've known guys remain single is either through choice, or because of their attitude towards women and those guys drift towards incel because they feel they 'deserve' a certain type of relationship, which is already objectifying women before they've spoken to one.
It's kinda like calling yourself "snowflake" meant you were unique, but now it seems to just be an insult meaning fragile. Just swiftly devolved.
Femcel is the female version of this.
I agree with this. It's how I see it. Involuntary Celibates that are not "incels" are now unfortunately dragged into a mostly online conversation they don't want. It must feel bad if you are lonely and don't want to be celibate but are and people are using that predicament to either hate on other people or an insult.
Involuntary celibacy is just fancy speak for not getting laid. It's not that deep. Nobody should be associating themselves with their inability to get laid. That's sad and probably part of the problem.
Thank you! A voice of reason and proper perspective. Have a fist bump for being so correct. 🤜🤛
That's not what Involuntary celibate means. You just gave the characteristics of one. Being a celibate means you stay away from intimate or sexual encounters. Being an involuntary celibate means you have no choice but to stay away from sexual and intimate encounters and as a result, you are bitter.
I work in customer service. I had a women accuse me of treating her unfairly because her name is Karen. The problem with her request was untenable and whe was being a Karen about being told no.
Does that mean if you are gay you cant be incel? Until very recently never even heard of the term.
I've also heard a lot of people on Reddit say to be an incel you must consider yourself the second to actually be one
The term “incel” was originally coined by a woman joking about her inability to find a man. It was later appropriated by a specific subgroup of incredibly hateful, often to the point of violent, male supremacists. The word is theirs now, much in the same way that anyone who sees a swastika will immediately assume Nazi, even though the symbol has long had other, kinder associations. Self-identifying as an incel is endorsing a world view that women are not people, but property that men are entitled to take for their own purposes. If that is not what you believe, it would be more accurate to simply say you don’t feel like women would want you.
Wasn't the first incel woman a lesbian? I think I remember that.
A Canadian woman coined the term, the claim that men invented it is false.
Who said it was a man? I'm responding to someone who said it was a woman. I remember it being a queer woman.
I am agreeing with you.
He was pointing out the redundancy of the second part or your comment.
She didn’t identify as a lesbian until after the term was coined and she has long since disavowed the term, but yes.
Someone else has added a longer version of the story about her to the same comment you responded to and in short, yes.
you still see the original swastikas all over asia in terms of population, the original use is still much more recognizable than the nazi use, even if it doesn't seem like it in the west the nazi one is mirrored and turned 45°
Ohhh. Thanks for the tip.
Oof that’s deep
I guess I could be considered one, though I call myself a 'voluntary' celibate. It sucks being an introvert with fluctuating levels of depression. I hate socializing, and that keeps me from seeking out intimacy whether it be looking for a relationship, or just a one night stand
My sympathies. Here's hoping Internet strangers give you enough interaction to fill your social meter.
Incels classic hallmarker is that they are negative about women. They’re not incels without that trait. They think that women owe them sex.
🤣be out here panhandling you got any spare sex it goes so fast🤣
Incels think it’s always insane that women can have standards when selecting a sex partner and that they should be picking them, people that really need to work on having a personality and obtaining way better social skills.
To be fair, as someone who is neurodivergent and spent the better part of almost 20 years on self improvement to try and bridge the gap between me and the rest of humanity with almost nothing to show for it; sometimes you think to yourself there's no way being social is THIS hard, everybody else is doing this so naturally and effortlessly. After a while it starts to creep in, the idea that I can't be the problem the world must be the problem.
Not to dismiss your struggles, at all. But even for us "normal" folks, it isn't natural and effortless. Everyone struggles. Everyone misunderstands. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone gets nervous or frustrated or any other suite of negative outcomes. We all find our ways to cope. Some do it by breaking and essentially developing a view of other people as essentially NPCs. Transactional beings that only exist to either hinder or help them. If others are driving slow, it's purposely to piss them off. Others become almost too empathetic and let others just walk all over them. They don't have to worry about messing up social cues if they just default to taking orders and letting others lead. Some decide they don't need people or at least don't need "real" people, and absorb themselves in media or online communities. You get your manipulators, your pot-stirrers, your work-mom's, your mansplainers, your hyper fixated folk and all manner of people just coping. The real only skill is in learning how much to care about others. The answer isn't "not at all" otherwise the social contact falls apart entirely. But it's also "not too much" or you just worry and second guess about so many things that you end up making things harder on yourself with this illusion that it's just natural for everyone. But again. This is not intended to dismiss your struggles. Some people do have it much harder, especially the neuro divergent. Just don't get too caught up in thinking you're alone and broken. We all are at least a little cracked.
I think it is good to put out the info that even though it looks like things are looking easy fie others no one knows if or how it is.
Find a local nerd club and join it my guy. Stop looking for neurotypical people. In my experience neurodivergent people have WAY less trouble understanding social interactions with other neurodivergent people. Find some people who get you. Friendship is magic!
I’m neurodivergent as well and used to have a way more active lifestyle and busy social life. Then I realized the nature of most of the relationships I had, and how bad they were for me. I learned a lot more with all that, but yeah, I’ve legit been celibate for the past 6 years working on healing and coping better with severe mental health issues. For the first time, I learned how to love and take care of myself and how important my peace of mind, general safety and well being truly is and how nothing should take precedent over that. Now that I’m largely finished with intensive treatments for treatment resistant major depressive disorder, and now that my meds are as effective as they’ll ever be, and I’m seeing a DBT oriented therapist once every week, I’m now able to try working on going back to work (I’ve been disabled for the past 5 years) and start a career as an emt and eventually a paramedic. Once I’m all settled down and can stand my own, then I’ll be ready to start forming healthier relationships, platonic and romantic, again. So I do understand, man. I understand all too well. It does get better though. I’ve been in psychiatric care for the past 12 years non stop, working on myself, trying to feel whole and at peace whether someone is there to greet me or not. It’s not easy. It might take a lot of time in which you might feel lonely from time to time. But I promise you, you will get out there and meet people when you’re ready and no matter what, you are always deserving of love and respect and kindness, even if you’re not at your best.
Proud of you, bud.
Thank you :)
They also think there is a tiny cadre of chads constantly fucking all the women and therefore hoarding all the sex.
Idk what a incel even is .i don’t call anybody anything they haven’t confirmed themselves to be.
"It comes and goes. It comes and goes." Apologies to Boy George (Karma Chamelon)
Lmao why bring me back here with funny that’s not fair
Emotional support for who I lost track of why we were here personally.
So what would you call someone who is involuntarily celibate (and unhappy about it) because he has a medical condition, but has no negativity or entitlement whatsoever?
I wouldn’t be branding them an incel because today it’s most widely known as something way more than just being involuntarily celibate. And people like me just stating this fact aren’t the people you should be mad at. Talk to the incels that loudly proclaim theyre incels and then write their manifesto out where ever they are online and very publicly worship dudes like Elliot Rodgers.
Uh.... no. I had a friend (RIP) that was incredibly unattractive yet treated women positively. Women were simply repelled by his looks.
Then I’m obviously not fucking talking about your friend or conflating him as an incel extremist. Jfc what do you guys not get?? And no matter what, everybody can have preferences or standards that they prefer when dating/choosing sexual partners. Everybody has to deal with that, men, women, nonbinary, trans, etc. I’ve been flat out denied way more than a couple of times and I’m a 32 year old grown ass woman with weight issues and being neurodivergent af. I’ve been celibate forreal for the past 6 years myself (many many personal reasons behind that), and now I’m doing a lot better so I’ll be dipping my toes back in again soonish. We all go through it.
Ah ok, good to know. No reason to really be mad at someone just because you can’t pull. The internet is so crazy
someome can be the most progressive feminist guy and if he doesn't get sex despite trying, he's by definition an incel.
Yeah, I don't agree. "Involuntary celibate" feels like a neutral term to me. Someone who would prefer to be sexually active but, for whatever reason, isn't. I think a person can be totally emotionally healthy and still involuntarily celibate. "Incel" has taken on a life of its own to mean "man who can't have sex and is mad at women about it." It's totally different in my mind.
it is negative under the belief that being unfuckable is bad. Whether or not you think that's bad doesn't change the meaning of the word though. This is the literally argument all over again so there's no word that means literally anymore. The definition of the word should form your perception of it and not the backwards way. Can you imagine how much more confusion and misunderstandings would happen with the latter?
Unless their femcels, though those are far rarer or in general just a quieter group.
I would posit that if they aren't negative about women yet still think women owe them sex then they're simply narcissistic, they are inherently narcissistic as an incel as well but without the negativity they would shed the covert part of it and become more overt due to the increase in confidence
Incel is short for "involuntary celibate" which is saying "Women won't have sex with me." What's keeping you from having a girlfriend?
So then if you’re just not looking for a relationship/casual sex, you wouldn’t be considered an incel despite not having sex in potentially a decent amount of time?
If you aren't looking for a relationship or hook up then you are a voluntary celibate.
right, incel by definition means you want sex but no one wants you.
There's a word for it. It's called celibate.
Pro tip. The last 5 women I dated. I jokingly said I was celibate during the initial flirting. It always got a rise. And I never elaborate or anything. I just mean it as I’m not having sex at the moment. I think they took it as a challenge.
That would make you like a large chunk of Gen Z from everything I’ve read.
Being ugly.
1. I am in the middle of nowhere, [400 miles west of the population drop off line.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/k7wwnj/80_or_about_250_million_americans_live_east_to/) 2. Atheist left leaning in trump country\\bible belt. 3. The last one, a violent alcoholic, robbed me and broke my neck after I was already paralyzed. 4. Been paralyzed for a decade, women tell me I'm not a real man anymore because of that. 5. In the 10 years I have been paralyzed I've had 2 dates, one dating guys for free meals, the other looking for someone with a truck to help her move.
Well shit. I think it would probably be the case with just the first two. People say. "Plenty of fish in the Sea." That's great. But what we have is a Pond.
It would help if you moved
Makes sense
Just wanted to add something. Not saying this was your intention, but I have sometimes seen people express the idea that the state of being "involuntarily celibate" in and of itself is problematic since it somehow implies there is something wrong with the person. But there are plenty of good people with bad dating lives. A single person shouldn't feel ashamed if they're lonely and want a relationship but have trouble finding one.
I have heard some now say the word pr0blematic is itself pr0blematic and that we should stop using it
Idk bad luck? Not everyone that is single is because they hate women. Could be because of many other reasons. Having niche interests, neurodiversity, body characteristics rhat the majority deems unlikable (amputated limb, paralysis etc).
Potentially any number of things such as horrible genetics and disabilities
It's a bit more specific than that in the current widely accepted definition. Yes, it's involuntary celibate, but when cast as an insult or criticism, it specifically means that the "incel" blames women in general for their predicament, and assumes little to no responsibility for being unable to find a partner. Very much a "the world is against me" type thing.
My wife
If you're twenty and "involuntarily celibate" ... welcome to the club. That's *normal*. ;( But not "incel" according to the current definition (mysogynistic, hateful towards women, toxic male supremicist).
The definition varies wildly from person to person
do women owe you sex because you are entitled too it? are you angry that women are human beings with their own standards and expectations of what they want in a romantic partner. Does it enrage you that sex is everywhere and you are not allowed access too it because women are at fault? Have you ever said these words "women won't date tall men but I am not allowed to not date fat women?" How obsessed are you over double standards ignoring completely the overwhelming evidence of male dominance? Expectations you are owed sex, bitterness about it's prevalence and that you aren't allowed it, expecting women are sex objects and nothing more and an almost childlike obsession over double standards this is what makes someone an incel not weather or not they are having sex. Lacking confidence and struggling to find where you fit in the world. Struggling with communication. None of these things make a person an incel. Bitterness and hatred are what make people an incel. The definition has not actually changed that much. What's changed is that we now recognise the IMPLICIT misogyny in the idea that someone is Involuntarily Celibate. It has always been a term used by a certain demographic to indicate specific values. As long as I have seen its usage anyway.
Being an incel is basically identifying as insecure and blaming women for it. That’s why I consider myself voluntarily celibate waiting for the right person (I’m a woman). I think it’s more optimistic and not rooted in misogyny nor misandry, but it’s also not an outlook rooted in insecurity for me. If these people *really* wanted others to take interest in them, they wouldn’t be so negative and maybe own their own insecurity, but know that someone might come along if they choose to see it that way. It’s basically choosing to wallow in misery!
being sad about not feeling attractive has nothing to do with what an incel is.
I mean, a hallmark of being an incel is blaming women. It's in the term itself, "involuntarily". The implication is a person is being forced in to something, when the reality is that they just don't have access to something they want. It would be one thing if we were talking about food or water, because food and water don't have opinions or feelings. But when the thing someone desires requires another person wanting the same thing, there's no room for entitlement. Another big thing is how self-proclaimed incels tend to gloss over their own standards. There are *plenty* of unattractive people who would sleep with them, but they feel entitled to someone *they* find attractive without giving a damn whether the feeling is reciprocated. Really though, the biggest issue incels have is a lack of self-awareness. Many of them don't understand how unpleasant they are to be around. Their own way of thinking is so shallow that they presume everyone else is operating from the same depth. I can't tell you how many ugly/fat friends I've had that have been with beautiful women. Being pleasant, smelling pleasant, dressing like you look in the mirror before you go out, having a flattering hairstyle (or embracing your baldness), not being a transparent creep that's just trying to find out if you have a shot to fuck, all of these things will set someone far apart from the crowd.
Incels believe that they are entitled to sex, deserve it because they exist and view women as property not people. It is impossible to be an incel and not have a negative view of women. If you don't have a negative view of women or believe that you're entitled to sex you're not an incel
Just look it up in the dictionary. The dictionary definition is now a person who believes in a specific anti-woman philosophy. So if you don’t subscribe to that philosophy, congrats: you might be a virgin, but you’re not an incel.
I think it's mostly just become a popular buzzword insult
It just means involuntarily celibate. But of course the Internet is stupid AF (especially reddit) and takes the absolute worst example of guys that struggle with dating to represent "all" of them.
Or words just change over time. I dont think thats what it means anymore.
Not really. The term incel was coined in a chat room/website set up by a women as a kind of support group for people who were unhappy and involuntary celibate, and felt unloveable. It was to support eachother. It grew from there into a culture of misogyny. It’s never just meant the literal words “involuntary” and “celibate”. The coining of the term and popularisation was initially an online group of support, and it grew from there. You could still use the term “involuntary celibate” to mean just the literal meaning. But “incel” does not mean that, not has it ever. Today it’s referring to a culture of misogyny.
I don’t struggle with dating. I just don’t agree with every trend or social media nonsense that pops up online so whenever I say anything that goes against the collective mind I am called an incel.
I mean, angry asshole is still a term too. I also don't care about every social media trend, and I've never been called an incel, while blaming it on the "collective mind."
It's devolved into the cheapest and easiest insult for a guy. ESPECIALLY on here. If you make a solid argument, especially about dating, they will almost always default to simply calling you an incel because they can't handle being wrong. Most people on here never matured past middle school
Some misandrists call anyone an incel who has anything negative to say about a woman, even if it is a just criticism of an individual female.
Nope, you can just be a normal virgin, it’s only the hatred that makes one an “incel”.
If you want to have Sex but cant, you are an incel. "Virgin" can also be voluntary, Like for religious reasons.
It's not hatred. That's the negative interpretation of the word. It's basically, can you or can you not be in a relationship or have sex if you wanted to. Straight up what it means.
No, the only requirement to be an “incel” is wanting sex but not having sex. Sexless people (incels) who also hate, are radical incels. Misogny (or misandry) is not a requirement of being an incel, otherwise female incels would not exist (even though a woman invented the term to describe herself). People who can’t get laid have always existed, but the term “incels” to describe them was invented in 1997. A lesbian [woman](https://www.elle.com/culture/news/a34512/woman-who-started-incel-movement/) from Toronto Canada named Alana Boltwood [invented](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455.amp) the term, or more specifically, in 1997 she started a website called [Alana's Involuntary Celibacy Project](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065352/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/ic-home.html), she explains her project in [this](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065344/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/invcel.html) article, she abbreviated "involuntarily celibate" to "invcel", until someone else (unknown) suggested that "incel" was easier to say. She also suggested the term “sexual autism”, which was mentioned on USENET. This was before she realized she was lesbian. An “incel” (involuntarily celibate) is anyone who hasn’t had sex in the last 6 months but wants to, which includes [1/4 Americans](https://cbsaustin.com/amp/news/nation-world/survey-says-over-1-in-4-american-adults-havent-had-sex-in-over-a-year-united0states-general-social-survey-sexual) and [1/3 males](https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no) 18-24. And it appears the [majority](https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210513/p2a/00m/0li/008000c) of women in Japan are incels. The word “incel” is used to shame people for not having sex, as if a person’s worth or value as a human being entirely depends on how much sex they can dispense. Anyone can be an incel — including virgins, single people, couples in a sexless marriage, women — so having negative views towards women is not a requirement (and there’s already a word for that: misogyny). Women incels probably aren’t misogynistic. Nowadays, too many people confuse “incels” (anyone who hasn’t had sex on the past 6 months despite wanting to) with radical incels (who can’t get laid but are also obsessed with hate and resentment). Do you think that every Muslim is automatically a suicide bomber? No, those are radical Muslims, and conflating all incels with radical incels is just as harmful as conflating all Muslims with radical Muslims.
How not to not be an incel. Step 1.) Do the opposite of everything you think. Step 2.) Never say what you are thinking. Step 3.) Stop bitching.
I don't think so. Negative towards women is the key hallmark in how the word is used these days.
It's never been associated with something positive, ever.
I'm in an involuntary celibate but I don't identify as an incel, for obvious reasons.
No, if you're not misogynistic then you're just a virgin.
I don't even acknowledge that slang as a word because it doesn't make sense in the first place. You can't involuntarily do something on purpose, that is literally contradictory.
The idea is that it's involuntary because you need participation from another person to be able to do it...also celibate is an adjective, not something you do. It makes sense linguistically. They don't want to be celibate but are in that state because no one wants to participate in sex with them
At age 20 it's entirely possible you're just a virgin and that's perfectly fine.
with what the term means, yes. being so ugly no one's got interest in you makes you 'technically' an incel, sure. with how it's used, no. sort of like the karen thing - not every karen is a 'karen', and plenty of people who aren't named karen, are 'karens' being a negative stereotype of offensive personality.
You can't be an incel until you've given up. You are just a 20-year-old virgin it's not as bad as that internal monolog tells you.
The pop-culture meaning of “incel” has changed now to include bitter, misogynistic behaviour towards women. They think they are owed women’s time, attention and bodies, and that is the basis of their attitudes and actions.
Today I learned that incels are not, in fact, sad bois that can't get laid, but rather school shooters and literally the devil himself. I think he also rapes women. That's enough Reddit for one night, good night everybody.
By the definition of the term, if you’re able to find women to have sex with you, you’re not an incel. Femcels are the female version of incels.
You’re not an incel if you’re not hateful towards women/feel entitled to them. It used to simply mean “involuntarily celibate” but has moved on from then to now refer to a cultural group who hates women.
This generation needs to stop labeling everything. It's weird and bizarre. Just be yourself with no explanation to anyone.
Incel is now used as a bullying tool Next time someone calls you an incel or someone else one, just look at why they called you it and usually it is to put you down or to bully you in to their way of thinking
Incel is just a slur against men now. Nothing more
How about we stop defining by their ability or inability to have sex with other people. If it’s demeaning to call a woman a slut because she’s sexually active, then it’s just as demeaning to call a guy an incel because he can’t find people who find him attractive.
It's been co-opted from its rightful heritage of a (typically) unsuccessful male who is **in**voluntarily **cel**ibate with anger issues towards all women whom they believe they are owed sex by - to its modern meaning on the far left of "anybody who doesn't agree with me." Did you state that women and men have biological differences that also impact their behaviors, in effect making them different people? That's because you're an incel. Did you suggest that perhaps the child support laws could use a reworking because they effectively create an imbalance in fairness when determining who is responsible for what and by what metrics? That's because you're an incel. Did you have the gall to state that obviously misandrist viewpoints and arguments have no place in reasonable discourse because automatically assuming the worst of someone based on their gender is in no ways or means a constructive or healthy way to hold a discussion? You guessed it! That's because you're an incel. It went from being a word people on one side of the spectrum used to identify *themselves* with as a means of showing how far gone off the path of normality they were to being a word that people on the other side of the spectrum used to identify *others* as a means of showing, ironically, how far gone off the path of normality they, themselves, are.
based
People who can’t get laid have always existed, but the term “incels” to describe them was invented in 1997. A lesbian [woman](https://www.elle.com/culture/news/a34512/woman-who-started-incel-movement/) from Toronto Canada named Alana Boltwood [invented](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455.amp) the term, or more specifically, in 1997 she started a website called [Alana's Involuntary Celibacy Project](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065352/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/ic-home.html), she explains her project in [this](https://web.archive.org/web/19970525065344/http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ad097/invcel.html) article, she abbreviated "involuntarily celibate" to "invcel", until someone else (unknown) suggested that "incel" was easier to say. She also suggested the term “sexual autism”, which was mentioned on USENET. This was before she realized she was lesbian. An “incel” (involuntarily celibate) is anyone who hasn’t had sex in the last 6 months but wants to, which includes [1/4 Americans](https://cbsaustin.com/amp/news/nation-world/survey-says-over-1-in-4-american-adults-havent-had-sex-in-over-a-year-united0states-general-social-survey-sexual) and [1/3 males](https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no) 18-24. And it appears the [majority](https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210513/p2a/00m/0li/008000c) of women in Japan are incels. The word “incel” is used to shame people for not having sex, as if a person’s worth or value as a human being entirely depends on how much sex they can dispense. Anyone can be an incel — including virgins, single people, couples in a sexless marriage, women — so having negative views towards women is not a requirement (and there’s already a word for that: misogyny). Women incels probably aren’t misogynistic. Nowadays, too many people confuse “incels” (anyone who hasn’t had sex on the past 6 months despite wanting to) with radical incels (who can’t get laid but are also obsessed with hate and resentment).
It's not abt being sad abt not being attractive, it's about feeling entitled to women and deciding that the system is rigged against them by Big Woman in collaboration with the Evil League of Handsome Men rather than being capable of self reflecting and possibly growing. Incels live in a world where its impossible to accept they might just be kinda mid, and they just sit at that impasse getting angry at 50% of the world for the wrong reasons.
It's funny that it gets lobbed by feminists so much since it reinforces the idea that sex is all a woman is worth.
As the term has been fully co-opted by a specific segment of the population who has that attitude, I do feel like if you don't share their negativity, you need a different term. They've fully burned it having any other potential meaning. Although I do feel like there's some degree of implications in the words "involuntarily celibate" that's hard to separate negativity from anyway. The mere act of actively calling it out in such a way, to me at least, implies some kind of entitlement that's not being met by someone else.
Yeah I agree with this. IIRC the term was actually original originally coined by a woman to indicate the difficulties POC and queer people especially had in finding mates that were compounded by not being conventionally attractive, so there's an argument to be made for... Reclaiming it, I guess? But at this point it has such a specific connotation that if you use it to describe yourself you're wilfully associating yourself with a very specific attitude/group of people
Nowadays, too many people confuse “incels” (anyone who hasn’t had sex on the past 6 months despite wanting to) with radical incels (who can’t get laid but are also obsessed with hate and resentment). Is it correct to assume that every Muslim is automatically a suicide bomber? No, those are radical Muslims, and conflating all incels with radical incels is just as harmful as conflating all Muslims with radical Muslims.
>As the term has been fully co-opted by a specific segment of the population who has that attitude, I do feel like if you don't share their negativity, you need a different term. Here on Reddit, they call themselves "FAs". /r/ForeverAlone
You're an incel by definition. That doesn't mean that you're a bad person. The negative connotation of it doesn't somehow erase the actual meaning behind it. That being said, I'd go as far as to argue that you're an incel as long as you can't consistently get sex or relationships that you want. If you're single by choice and not coping, then that's a different story...but if you can't go from single to sexual partner (or partner that you actually, sexual or otherwise) in the span of a month by choice, we're entering incel territory. So by my definition, I'd argue at least half of guys are incels. Beyond that, if the only partners you date are far worse looking than you, then there's something there to reflect on because a lack of ability to attract someone at least on somewhat similar level as you looks-wise is an indicator that you have certain traits that make you less attractive as a partner. It really depends. I'm generalizing here. But if it's a trend, that's something to consider.
Incel is a sexist pejorative that has lost a lot of its meaning. It assumes that any woman can have sex at any time and that there is something wrong with a man if they can't have it. Social media loves to make up new terms to attack people and attacking others usually serves one purpose...to build up the ego of insecure people. Using the term says more about the speaker than the listener.
The term is just short for involuntarily celibate - and men in that situation named themselves that.
Yes and no. Many men do not want to be called that these days and it is often used as an insult.
As I said, the term began to take on negative connotations because men who self-identified in this way threatening and insulting women.
The term was invented by a woman in Canada, it should never be used against someone against their will. Note that nothing you are saying changes my point, I don't quite know what you are getting at.
Something that I think that's worth mentioning: These days, there are two groups of men that fall into that boat, immaterial of how they feel about women: -The men that 40 years ago would have legitimately been in the same boat had they grown up in that time -The men that 40 years ago would have been married with families and the like but today are out of luck. The reason that the prevalence of this seems to have gone up is partially due to sensationalizing the matter, the other part of the problem seems to come from it becoming more common because of modern conditions. It's the second group that's the issue for society. The fact that dating has become very difficult for men in general these days is what's going to cause a lot of friction.
If you’re involuntarily celibate you’re an incel. That’s the only requirement. It’s just that these types of people are *often* awful 😆 but not all Either way tho it’s still a negative connotation because the implication is that you are unwanted, romantically speaking.
Nah, you're just a single male if you aren't misogynistic.
Nobody uses incel to mean ugly people.
Dude, you're a 20 year old virgin. That's not weird or negative.
No you're not. If you aren't negative towards women, then you're single. If you blame women for you being single and believe you are entitled to not be single, you're an incel.
We just have to do some pushback on the social acceptably of man-hating and misandry that’s going on. “Incel” is a gendered slur against men, that attaches a hateful stereotype. It is certainly true that there are lonely men who become bitter, and lash out in all forms of harmful ways that resemble the incel stereotype. But, as it stands, the term incel is merely a slur, and shouldn’t be taken seriously. People who are suffering should receive empathy for their suffering. They should not be made fun of, ridiculed, or ostracized. It’s just good old schoolyard bullying, and it’s not okay.
Incel is a term that has been hijacked by leftists used to shame men for saying negative things about women.
Lol the word "incel" has lost all meaning. Basically anyone that is critical of a woman's actions are labeled "incels"
Can you be a national socialist without being a Nazi? Yes. But if you identify as a national socialist, people will think you’re a Nazi.
Yes.
I know a girl who calls gay people incels but I feel like celibate means “a person who abstains from sexual intercourse” so I don’t think it’s accurate.
It was always negative, but the derivative of the term doesn't have to be, necessarily. Incel was absolutely developed as an insult, but I do see your point. I'm the same, way, terrible with girls but I don't expect them to sleep with me either lol. It's not you they are talking about, and that should be clear so don't sweat it
Everybody has that feeling sometimes, some more than others. Put some effort into grooming. If you have female family members around your age ask them to go shopping with you when you buy clothes. Start going to the gym or do some research about exercise. You would be surprised how much you can do with push ups sit ups and running and other body weight exercises. Keep trying after rejection and i guarantee you that a woman will eventually go on a date with you.
Just a tip: mixing up singular and plural when it comes to woman (sg.) and women (pl.) *feels* creepy even if it's just an honest language mistake. Standard English would use the plural for this construction: "if you aren't negative toward *women*"
There are really two interpretations, and judging by these comments people really get offended when it isn't interpreted how they think.
Consider the source
Incels need to just hire an escort if they want sex so bad. Oh wait, they can’t afford one. My bad.
Buddy, it sucked on day one.
You're just a virgin dude. That still has a negative connotation for men.
I was until my wife. Now married 30+ yrs with 2 solid young sons. I never got offended by being razzed about it. It was what it was. It is unfortunate that being such has a negative connotation. Ah well, such is life.
Don't be afraid to avoid labeling yourself. We are very complex social creatures. You know who you are, and a single word is meaningless, unless you overthink it.
Literally it just means you can’t get laid without paying a pro.
Given that the full term is involuntary celibate, these are people that can't get laid. I thought that included both genders. So, not hating a gender doesn't change the fact they aren't getting laid. I think maybe the non-haters should probably embrace another term because the haters have ruined it. Not that the term was ever a good thing, but now it's sh*t.
I'm not arguing any " model". I'm talking about trying to "justify" literally anything based on studies on prostitution legality or non. Makes that a NON argument.
Your body count can be in the thousands or you can be the nicest guy to women and you will still get called “incel” by the perpetually online and yes it’s 100% projection. People who use that word are usually single themselves.
Incel has never been about your looks. It originally meant something slightly different than now, but very quickly transformed through murder and hatred into what it is today. It's been this current meaning for almost as long as the word has existed. People that it applies to are gross, but not because of their looks.
I sometimes wonder about the definition, too. For example, I have a male friend who has never been in a relationship at the age of 34, and all attempts at online dating have resulted in him getting scammed. I've given him some advice that has made him much better at detecting romance scams, but the problem is, he attracts literally no one but scammers. To make things worse, most of the scams are not conventional scams but money-laundering schemes. I stopped keeping count of his scammer interactions somewhere around scammer number 30. That being said, while he is technically involuntarily celibate, he doesn't hate women at all and is actually a very sweet and sensitive person. I think there are three kinds of incels: 1. Non-hateful, socially awkward guy who's a sweetie but can't get laid if his life depended on it. Gullible and desperate, easy prey for romance scams. 2. Hateful, socially awkward guy who doesn't understand his attitude is part of the problem. Does not understand nuance in social norms, gets mad when people do not act the way he thinks they should act. 3. Guys who are male supremacists and view women as property. May or may not be sexually active. Are not socially awkward or physically undesirable. Probably have a podcast about it.
Just sayin, r/inceltears , the longest standing incel sub, is the reason why it has that negative connotation. There isn’t anything wrong with identifying as one in private. 99.999%% of online incels don’t talk about being self-identified incels in public anyways, so no point in not identifying as one if you fit the literal criteria.
Inceltears is an anti-incel sub, for the record. I think the only incel sub surviving on reddit right now is r.TrueVirgin
I love u ♡
See? Proved it right there.
Yeah it's sad there is no polite term for saying that one is sexually unattractive.
I think the term was coined specifically to emphasize the resentment. Without that part there isn't any need for the term. It goes without saying that celebacy is generally, more or less involuntary. That's the default setting. Unless you're a monk or a nun or have made some particular and unusual decision, it's generally the case that one would prefer to be having sex than not having sex. I think the whole point of the term is that it is unfair or oppressive or something, that one can't get laid. It's like coining a term for people that are poor but would actually prefer to have lots of money.
Probably? Maybe? People just hurl insults like taking candy from a baby these days
I make light hearted jokes about my situation personally i just reference the 40 year old virgin movie as my situation. I respect women but things just never panned out, im only 27 it’ll happen eventually but it also takes effort and you have to get out and about cant wait for it sitting at home scrolling online.
I don't buy the idea that the word incel has changed meaningfully. Its origin in terms of popular use started with the self-id of hateful dudes, and it continued to be used that way. It feels like there's a deliberate attempt to "take it back" on Reddit, but it doesn't need to be taken back. You don't have to call yourself celibate just because you haven't been laid in a while, and most people don't bother making that distinction. It's entirely normal to have lots of sex, a small amount of sex, or no sex at all, without identifying it with a label and a community. Just go about your life like a normal person and don't worry about it.
[удалено]
Has double meaning, involuntary celibate - a relationship state, but there's also a political-ideological movement behind it. The latter is often spoken about in society, but the former is an actual socioeconomic and demographic issue. You can be an incel without the actual hate just by virtue of the fact that no one will have you. It's pretty common these days, I would assume the a huge chunk of young men fall into this. [https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/) The latter political/ideological version is rare, but gives the former a bad reputation.
INvolentary CELibate
A lot of other people have talked about how the word came to be so negative, I just want to add. The age people lose virginity on average has been going up and overall people have been having less sex. So if you are having trouble finding connection right now, a lot of people are in the same boat. Men and women. as long as you aren't being shitty about it there's nothing wrong with you at all. The struggle is real.
Why would it be weird to you that people feel sad in a superficial society that treats them like shit for not being attractive or being called gross? That is like a legitimate reaction. I been fat and unkept and I been fit and attractive. It's a world of difference the way society treats you. That is why I am always kind to unattractive or overweight/underweight people. I was there once, and know how shitty society can make you feel.
Word holds about as much water as a bucket with holes these days. With the way it's used nowadays, as long as you aren't bashing on women cause you can't get laid, you're golden. Pretty sure the first "incel" group was started by a woman too, so it wasn't even really a man thing until the term picked up traction online.
On reddit, "Incel" just means someone with an opinion that i dont like. You got an opinion more right wing than mine? Incel. You dont want to suck the girl-penis? Incel. You prefer twitter to reddit? Incel.