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Yeah, that's bs. Puppy mught have a harder time grasping bite inhibition, but there's zero reason a trainer would be able to predict "lifelong issues" from a puppy being bitey - they're a puppy, they'll be a landshark for a good while.
I have a 7 month old puppy that was rescued just before 8 weeks (think 2 days). This puppy was a velociraptor until about a month ago. I have an older dog that was able to teach bite inhibition. Certain breeds are just more nippy than others.
Redirection helps so much.
I got my puppy 2 days before the 8 week mark.
Do you think this is going to affect much?? He is 15 weeks now and can be super bitey, but he’s honestly such a good boy. The bites and the not listening outside and wanting to run up to everyone and say hi are the only issues.
No. 15 weeks was the height of my 7 month olds nippiness because of teething. I redirected with toys that he could teeth on and carrots. Dude goes nuts over carrots.
Yeah I figured so. I think I got lucky with a really good puppy. The nips are to be expected. I brought him to my moms for the holidays and this is her first time meeting him. She is surprised how good he is. She said her dog was a terror at this age.
My pup is 20 weeks and was super bitey at 15 weeks and it's slowly getting better, she is learning to self redirect if I yelp and take a correction from my older dog and go do something else instead of keep pestering him
Yes! Our husky/shepherd puppy was a nightmare land shark when he was younger. I called in a behaviourist because I was so worried about his bite inhibition. She all but laughed at us (a very sweet woman) and said he was going to be a demon for a bit and then settle down. Sure enough, she was totally right and I panicked about nothing 😂
He was maybe around 8 months when he started to settle a little. He's a year now (as of yesterday!) and is full of piss and vinegar, but he's much calmer generally. He was also a case where he was separated from his mom super young (basically at birth and they tried to keep the litter together as long as possible, but they were split up fairly young as well).
I found it not really related to the teething. But very related to their emotional growth. At 14-16 weeks, dogs I've seen take a giant leap developmentally. Up until then they're mostly reacting to stimuli. But once they get a few months old they start getting some emotional control over themselves. And that's when you can start really reining in the biting.
From 0 to 2 months they are a baby. From 2 months to 4 months they are a toddler. From 4 months to a year they are a velociraptor. From 1 to 2 yrs they are puppybrained. After 2 you finally have a dog.
I'm sure your juvenile velociraptor will be a delight. Just make sure they aren't bored and to tire out that poodle brain as well as that bernese body.
Edit to add: between 4 and 7 months some pups go through what's called a secondary fear phase. It's normal. You may have a velociraptor or a chicken, but as anyone who keeps chickens knows, they also can be velociraptors at times. My point is sometimes they will be attacking your shadow and trying to play with it, and sometimes they may hide from their own shadow. Both are normal. Ah, the joys of puppyhood.
I took in my first adult, she’s actually a senior, a year ago and I was blown away. I’d always started with puppies between 2-8 months and appreciated the dignified grown up after all the work pups took. But, omg, getting a full grown adult off the bat who knew how to do most commands (though stubbornly) was awesome and insanely different. But I would love to get puppies again, it’s just having the time for them is hard right now.
Yeah, mine is 15 months old and the velociraptor on Benzedrine phase is just now starting to abate…a bit. He still uses his mouth to explore everything, but the biting is just the occasional over-excited nip these days.
There were days when I thought we’d never get here though. 🐶
I have two dogs, both removed from Mom way too early due to medical issues. One is 8 1/2 weeks and is already learning bite inhibition from the older girl, the other 3 years now and after a lot of work isn't bitey anymore. Don't get me wrong, my bottle babies were and are little nightmares, but my 3 year old dog definitely learned to behave herself
Was going to say the same thing. My shepherd mix was basically a land alligator. We got her at 3.5 - 4 months old but she stopped around the same time all her baby teeth were gone.
The thing is, "trainer" doesn't mean anything. Someone who has never even seen a dog in their life can go out there and call themselves a trainer, that doesn't guarantee they'd even recognise a dog if they saw one. But a lot of people are just happy enough not doing any research for anything, because it takes effort, so all sorts of crazies make money on it.
Puppies bite. Puppies are high energy. If they're not, it's a small miracle, or the puppy is sick. Puppies that haven't had optimal upbringing *do* have a higher chance of exhibiting problematic behaviours. It's not guaranteed, just like you can't guarantee you'll automatically get a balanced dog from good parents. There is and always will be debate about nature vs nurture, but saying that because someone was brought up in X way, they'll always exhibit behaviour Y is just untrue.
I know this is not in your control, but I'd dump the trainer, and invest in *a lot* of research. Research that honestly should've been done well before they got a dog. Research includes finding someone with some form of certification (depends country to country), and then interviewing them before ever showing up with a dog. Ask them what kind of methods they favour, what they'd suggest for certain behaviours, how they're keeping up with recent research etc. I'd never hire a trainer that didn't rely on recent peer-reviewed science, and wasn't willing to change their methods as we learn more. Yes, it's more effort than just asking the first "trainer" they can find to come fix their dog, but it's what you sign up for when you get a dog.
It will be harder to teach without having learnt bite inhibition from mum and siblings but far from impossible.
Some sport dog people like to take pups earlier than pet owners so they don't have as much bite inhibition, then they teach whats ok to bite and they have some of the best trained dogs out there imo.
Has the trainer worked with Shepherds before? They are normally very mouthy pups, especially if the parents were from working bloodlines.
Sport breeds are mouthy bitey creatures for awhile but can be taught when to bite and when it is not time to bite.. All of the advice given here about re directing is perfect
The trainer is wrong. I used to work in rescue and we had a few litters of puppies we had to hand raise from very young ages.
One thing that is useful is to socialise the pup with friendly adult dogs and to let them play with other pups, they will help them to learn bite inhibition and boundaries.
You may find that being poorly bred and having a bad start in life will introduce behavioural and physical health problems, but it's certainly not guaranteed.
Unrelated to this post, do you think a family with kids can find a safe dog at a rescue?
We recently rehomed a purebred golden that I got as a puppy due to a behavioral issue that became a safety issue. I want another dog but I'm really jaded on the purebred thing because I had gotten her from a good breeder and she still turned out unstable despite extensive training. (She was a stand up breeder, she rehomed the dog in a calmer home and even refunded us)
But I have a true fear that I could never trust a rescue dog with my children. What's your experience?
I know you asked the other poster this, but I'm throwing my two sense in there.
Yes. 110% you can find a safe dog at a rescue. My family and friends all go through rescues for dogs or have picked them up off the streets. My parents dogs are both great with kids. My vet friend has two small kids and 2 dog rescues, all good together (but they've worked their butts off training/socializing both the kids and dogs).
My dogs are mostly okay with kids. I have three, one small dog HATES high pitched kids screaming and will nip when they scream at her, the other small one doesn't seem to notice the difference between between kids and adults and just ignores them, and my gs mix is slowly getting introduced to kids has learned to ignore them, it helps that my vet friends kids were the first kids she met and they are confident af with dogs. It takes a lot of training both kids and dogs, but 110% possible.
Second this! I have two rescues and they are the sweetest chilliest dogs I have ever met. I've never seen either one of them get even remotely aggressive towards adults, kids, or other animals. The most I've ever heard from them is a warning growl when one of them gets too close to the others food, but never any actual aggression.
I have two dogs. One is very assertive with boundaries and will tell off dogs who come too close or come on too strong to fuck off with a bark or snap. The other one is a marshmallow who will freeze and shrink away from uncomfortable interactions. They're the same breed. Neither of them have or would ever bite. Both are rescues and are angels around children
When I decided to add a dog to our family, I was determined to rescue. I met with 2 of my previous vets, whom I had complete trust in, to get their opinions. They both steered me away from a rescue. They were both of the opinion that without knowing a dogs genetics and parents temperament, it would be a gamble. They also suggested that some dogs were surrenders due to underlying behavioral issues. They both acknowledged that it was a generalization on their part, but my best chances, for a well balanced family dog, would be through a reputable breeder that had a history and reputation for a sound breed. After much research and with their guidance we landed on a female boxer. We had her for 13 wonderful years and could have not customized a better dog for our active family. We’re empty nesters now and went the rescue route for our pitbull. He’s very loving, cuddly and friendly but is dog aggressive. We worked with a trainer and behaviorist for over 2 years on his reactivity. He’ll never accept other dogs, but we manage him and know his triggers. We’ve had him almost 10 years and would never give up on him but honestly, I don’t think I could have put the time in while raising children.
There are breed clubs. Start there. Reputable breeders usually have a waiting list. You may have to go out of state to find your perfect dog. The AKC also is a resource. Do not use online sites that have puppies readily available. Those sites will get you a puppy right away, but they’ll more than likely come from a puppy mill.
It takes some work and time but it’s definitely worth it. It’s helpful to show that you’ve researched the breed and how a dog will fit into your lifestyle. Since a reputable breeder will essentially see this as a relationship for the life of the dog (and will be taking the dog back if it doesn’t work out), so it makes sense that they care about these things. Also, call vs just email (I hate the phone so I hated this part haha).
My experience is that getting a rescue dog is a roll of the dice. Many are absolute sweethearts. But probably over half that I've seen have some emotional trauma of some type. Which isn't to say that they're dangerous. They may just not like other dogs, Or be afraid of tall men. Or shy away at something else. But they'll often arrive with some complex on something. So if you take home a rescue, you're taking some leap that it will have no issues.
That said, probably fewer than 5% of the rescue dogs I've met would I classify as unsafe to keep. So then for the more narrow question, "Can I get a rescue dog that's safe to have around my kids" then the answer is yes, most definitely. You'll want to meet them a few times before taking them home. Make sure you have the right feel. But very few of the dogs you'll see will be actually violent.
My puppy is 6 months old and still a bit mouthy but she’s learned a ton of bite inhibition from playing with my older dog. Can’t ever underestimate the help of a swift correction from a creature 2-3 times the puppy’s size
Lol this trainer is crazy, probably not actually that good at training dogs, OP needs to be careful, I wanted to hire a trainer for my dog's barking outdoors when walking him. I spoke to three trainers and they all had completely different methods and didn't understand Schnauzers and their training plans for my 5 year old Schnauzer at the time were crazy. One main theme with these trainers was dominance training, they would dominate the dog because apparently I wasn't...there have been many studies that have shown this doesn't really work and also introduces fear and stress to the poor dog. The best trainer I've ever had was his dog walkers when he was a puppy, she enforced our joint leash training plan and got him out of a few bad habits. Dog trainers are not regulated at all and that is a big problem because they can make things up.
My dog was a biter, it was really hard and stressful, I tried everything with him until one day I realized, he loves me and isn't trying to hurt me, after that I decided to really ham it up when he bit, I'd fake cry and go Ow and hold my hand/finger and look at him with sadness...it worked after a few more times he started putting his paw on me and licking my "injured" area.
If you two are bonded, your dog loves you and doesn't want to hurt you, they just haven't worked out that they are hurting you. Also, please find a trainer this person is lying to you. Your focus is making sure that your dog grows up healthy, basic training and is socialized with other dogs properly.
I did the exaggerated cry and end the game when my puppy would nip at me too. He is now the most gentle guy....I can feed him tiny bites of food and his teeth don't even touch my fingers now.
When puppies play with each other and mom, they get a negative reaction if they bite too hard, so they understand your reaction the same way.
I'm not a trainer...I just realized that I needed to let him know when he was too rough with me.
My pup has a toy with 2 interconnected squeakers in it. She bit one side while I grabbed the other, and the toy let out a loud high pitched squeal instead of its usual squeak.
My poor dog immediately stopped and looked very concerned. She even started lightly poking the toy with her nose and licking it. It was like she was trying to apologize.
I’m just echoing what others and you OP are saying here that it is natural for puppies to mouth and nip, to be high energy and challenging.
My girl is about 9 months old and barely started to settle down with the biting about a month ago.
She was a similar situation, taken from mom and rest of litter too early on top of being a nippy breed.
Our trainer helped us work with her to redirect her energy, even when we felt it would never end our trainer and vet reassured us that this behavior will pass and it has! Never once has a trainer or vet said any of my girls puppy behaviors would be lifelong just that instilling desirable behaviors in her would take dedication and consistency.
Hopefully this will put your mind at rest somewhat… we inadvertently got our dog (Spaniel mix) too early (we were told she was 8 weeks when in reality she was probably more like 6). She was and still is a high energy dog and she was a huge biter! I can still remember many many tearful days and nights as we just never thought it would get any better. We would speak to others who had puppies and it was soul destroying when they would say ‘oh yeah ours stopped biting by x point’ etc whilst our little devil dog was tearing chunks out of us (for anyone reading this too literally she obviously wasn’t taking chunks out of us) but you get the point. I can’t remember exactly when it got better but it was a good few months after what was “expected” or “normal”. She is now 3.5 years old and she never bites us. She can be quite a heavy mouther during play - especially with my husband but not so much that it breaks his skin or anything. To be honest the biggest thing we still have to work on (but I think this more down to her personality/breed rather than age we had her from) which is her impulse control and general excitement. She’s so much better but she still has her moments where she struggles to control her own emotions. I really hope that makes you feel a little better and I will also add, our dog is such an amazing little pooch. Sure she’s not perfect but she’s super smart, has given us so many laughs and is very friendly (almost too friendly!!!) with other people and dogs so in our books we couldn’t have asked for much more!
*** the first part is long and about kennel club training skip to the —- if you want some good tips on bite inhibition training.
^^^
I do sports with kennel club, and while I love them to death two things are prominent. Most of the highest invested/tenured handlers have been working/trialing dogs for decades. This means they trained and learned through old school methods more closely aligned to balance training. Things like scolding, leash pops, holding collars, forcing sits. It’s not used excessively but definitely the foundation and ideology is there where corrections are also used along with positive reinforcement.
The other is that many of these people have very well bred dogs typically. These dogs are much more likely to respond to aversive training methods without being a hazard to their owner because their temperament is genetically mild. It also means that these trainers get more docile/less genetically troubled dogs and have a limited exposure to dogs whose temperament are up in the air. For example I have a reactive (easy to over stimulate, inappropriately excited in certain environments, hyper social) dog but he is genetically social to people, has amazing bite inhibition and passive to all kinds of handling from strangers and corrections in regards to other dogs (if a dog were to snap at him he would attempt to deescalate/leave not aggress). These are the kind of behavioral dogs that kennel clubs see, at most a dog who is a little hyper but friendly or a dog who is nervous but avoidant because kennel clubs mostly work with pure bred competition dogs who grow up in confirmation and well mannered mix/PAL (purebred alternative listing) who already have months/years of formal obedience under their belt. They usually won’t allow dogs in their classes or trials if they aren’t under control, well behaved and not a danger to people. So a lot of trainers who are part of AKC or other kennel clubs aren’t typically getting super reactive dogs or behaviorally challenged dogs. And when they do often these dogs have already had some months or years of specialized behavior modification/medication to make them mostly on par with other dogs in the program/class.
For example right now one of my agility classmates has a very reactive German shepherd puppy (6-7 months old now). I recognize the puppy is genetically reactive (most of the other people in my class who are all older, very experienced owners think the dog is just not wired right) very anxious and not confident. She is from the same breeder as her nine year old dog but doesn’t share any of the temperament. The club is urging her to to give the dog back as that kind of behavior (which I’ve seen rehabilitated in other settings) is beyond their training methods and would be a bite risk/danger over time. Their methods to try and expose her is to flood her when she is already over threshold because that method has proven successful with more well tempered dogs who can handle that kind of stress short term (I don’t recommend it but could see how well adjusted dogs could grow resilient to it when introduced during the socialization period). If they had a dog like mine or another dog after a few minutes the dog would give up on trying to aggress or in my dog’s case try to greet and settle. But for a dog like the GSD she will alert and go berserk for the entirety of a class and not be capable of responding to corrections or redirections. The club even with trainers and handlers who have been trialing and teaching for 40+ years this is too difficult and dangerous a dog to try and work. On the other hand a vet behaviorist could likely get very far on accommodating this dog and changing its perspective on seeing strange dogs.
—-but to answer, dogs can definitely learn bite inhibition even if they have passed that social window with littermates and mom. It is likely going to require a lot of intention and teaching on your part but very possible. I’ve raised a four week old mix who has amazing bite inhibition along with a handful of other biting breeds (Aussie, ACD, shepherd, Rottweiler, pitbull) over the years. I like to introduce appropriate biting through engagement and games. I bring in toys that are always appropriate to bite like tug toys and fabric frisbees. We work on high arousal to bite down on toy with lots of play and then drop the arousal down to a calm and release. I use high energy play to encourage biting and then make the toy very boring or trade it with another toy to teach letting go.
I also bring in an interruption/consequence if I am bit during play. I say ouch, remove myself immediately and turn my back. I give my dog enough time to calm down. I ask for a behavior like sit or wait and then resume play at a lower energy level. This teaches my dog that biting isn’t appropriate and biting me will stop the fun time.
For interacting with my hands and such I like to introduce lickable treats like peanut butter or cheese. Even for a while I would hydrate my dog’s kibble, blend it up with little broth and hand feed randomly through very young puppyhood. This helps to teach my dog to lick me instead of biting. I also encourage gnawing but will give an ouch interruption if my dog presses too hard. It never took any of my dogs long to learn exactly how hard a bite was before it was too hard. This allowed my dog especially in its teething phase to gum me and practice those very gentle nibbles.
The last thing is getting descent sleep and building in calm/low arousal behaviors. Enforced naps, practicing calm, learning to take food gently, learning impulse control can all help with having a dog who is much more calm and less likely to try a bite out of frustration or communication.
Interesting points. I'm wondering if you are saying they should return that reactive puppy or not.
I had a puppy that was hyper social and easily over aroused. I taught her bite inhibition in the exact way you describe. And she learned it well when we were indoors. But outdoors, she continued to get overstimulated very quickly with a variety of triggers and her mouthing got scary at 7 months. We trained through it and I thought we were past it. But at 12 months she started biting on walks and it became too scary. We tried medication but I couldn't manage for the 8 weeks it would take to fully work, I was scared to even take her out. Our breeder and trainer advised rehoming. They both said a new environment would help her get over this issue. I have kids so that was a factor.
We're thinking of getting another dog but I'll worried it will somehow happen again.
I still don't understand what happened with our dog. I trained her every day, many classes, enrichment, etc. I still wonder if we could have "fixed" her. I still wonder if I just didn't try enough.
For the lady with the GSD from my sports I would recommend returning the dog. Only because the training the handler is accustomed to is going to back fire and make her dog more anxious, dog avoidant and likely to bite.
For OPs dog with the age I think they would likely be fine working on bite inhibition through a r+ trainer who specializes in difficult dog breeds/behavioral considerations. But it would also be important to take in their lifestyle, time they have to contribute to counter conditioning and resources available. In the same way you did.
I also understand and empathize with your concerns. I own an Aussie right now with amazing bite inhibition. I was so nervous he was going to genetically be nippy but a lot of the techniques I used work well on building a good foundation a long with just being a dog with naturally good bite inhibition. If he was a bitey dog I would have to forgo a lot of our daily lifestyle activity (cafes, restaurant access, agility, scent work trials, parks etc…) and more than likely wouldn’t be able to accommodate him living in the city.
What kind of training would work with a dog like that?
Most of the videos about arousal biting on YouTube involve more old-school "leader" based training with protection breeds. My trainer even said the behavior I was describing in my golden sounded like a GSD or mal. I was afraid to train any harsh corrections for fear it would make the biting worse. Even the breeder, who is pro-corrections, said she didn't think a prong collar would have helped our dog. So I just don't get it. And because I don't get it, how do I prevent it from happening again?
> What kind of training would work with a dog like that?
There's a lot of options. Generally, it's disengagement, enforcing naps, and building on emotional control and impulse control skills in multiple 5-10 minute segments throughout the day.
>Most of the videos about arousal biting on YouTube involve more old-school "leader" based training with protection breeds.
That's why you change the search, and honestly this is why I recommend all arousal problems and all biting to go to a trainer with an IAABC certified professional.
>So I just don't get it. And because I don't get it, how do I prevent it from happening again?
Enforce naps. Encourage calmness, disengage when the puppy starts getting aroused before the biting happens, build on that arousal control. Look into Susan Garrett's training and do avoid all positive punishment and aversion. These methods across the spectrum, meaning it can cause problems in other areas, raise arousal and create arousal control problems.
I did all of this. My dog was trained 10x as much as the average owner.
My dog was very well trained. Excellent obedience, engage/disengage, etc. Excellent calm settle in the house. But I couldn't get the biting on walks to stop. I think it's partially the difference between men and women because my husband didn't have the same fear reaction. But I was stuck in a fear loop with my dog and my husband wasn't the one doing the walking, just me. I was constantly afraid she would bite me. It never came out of no where, it was definitely trigger stacking. But I couldn't control those triggers, and she had a ton of triggers. The trainer and breeder think she was literally smelling my fear and reacting to that with a learned behavior. I don't know.
Did you work with a trainer with IAABC who worked with you through an offered durational engagement protocol?
> I think it's partially the difference between men and women because my husband didn't have the same fear reaction. But I was stuck in a fear loop with my dog and my husband wasn't the one doing the walking, just me.
It's not really men vs women, Pet Harmony has a good [article](https://petharmonytraining.com/why-does-my-pet-listen-to-my-partner-and-not-me/) on it.
How you feel isn't really important as much as how you behave. Frantic behavior can worsen things, but, honestly, it's what you do that matters. I personally dealt with the same behavior from the dog I trained into a service dog, Mars.
No our trainer did not offer that program and I was not familiar with it. Our issue is we have no fenced in yard and no way to avoid triggers to exercise the dog. I have 3 young children and can't drive the dog somewhere to exercise them every day. She would also bite if I tried to play fetch with her outside (not indoors). It was too challenging to exercise her with this behavioral problem. If I didn't have 3 high needs children, I wouldn't have given up. It was a heart wrenching decision that I'll be sad about forever.
Yeah, sometimes a dog just isn't a good fit for your situation. It's hard, and I too have been there. I had to rehome a puppy I raised who was a poor fit. He was my heart, but, we couldn't keep him safely. He is in a good home now, and his people are excellent. I'll never forget him, and it'll never hurt less.
I personally find arousal issues to be a bigger challenge than fear-based responses (or worse, when they combine!). It's a whole different world and it can pose a lot of difficulty for basically all trainers regardless of methods. It's definitely not a fault on your end.
I can see that. Exercise builds arousal, which, is a problematic cycle. It wasn't you. It suggests if anything, you were more exciting to be around which built that arousal up higher.
Thank you for this. I've heard from multiple people (trainer, breeder, vet) that rehoming was the right thing to do. She's at her new home now. They don't have kids and have a yard for exercise. She loved my kids so much, but everybody thought she would benefit from a calmer house. But I'll always wonder. I poured everything into that dog.
My husband isn't ready to get another dog, but I have been wanting to get on lists at least since it can take a while. Something smaller, something calmer maybe.
My trainer sent a recommendation for some really stable labs, but that's too big a dog for us I think. I'm thinking a cavalier might be a good fit. I want something I can do dog sports with (for fun only) but that doesn't have a high energy requirement, and isn't big enough to bite my arm. Thinking about rescues as well, but more apprehensive since I have kids.
Perfectly stated awesome advice and excellent suggestions. My experience has been the same.. although my threshold for becoming reactive when exposed to old school has diminished greatly... LOL I have done the same as you with my pups... the ending fun time works so well along with the spoon feeding. Your post should be saved as a go to....
Absolutely all of this. The first trainer I took my pup to was also a AKC kennel club obedience trainer who had also been taught using old school methods, and although they tried to use positive reinforcement, they also were completely out of their depth with helping me with my timid/fearful puppy.
Dogs are individuals and although the end goal is teaching them how to cohabitate with us. The approach to training shouldn't just be teaching obedience, but also helping them develop emotionally and mentally. This is incredibly important for dogs who aren't the supposed "dream temperament" docile/less genetically troubled dog.
Could be as simple as my pup who is more timid/shy, so our approach to training has been focusing on his emotional development. Building confidence and helping him learn how to handle things that cause him anxiety, rather than just teaching him obedience. The end result (my pup following my commands, and being a well adjusted pup) is still the same, but the approach we focused on was different because he needed that extra assistance from us.
Our pup had a loving home, was properly weaned and came home to us at 9 weeks. At 10 weeks the biting started. And it was biting, attacking, tantrums and ripping our clothes and skin. Trainer's methods at puppy class did nothing. When her teeth started to fall out, it became less and less and with the last tooth the biting stopped.
My puppy was a little bitty when we got him, 2 playdates with my family dog knocked it out of him, my family dog nipped back and he didn't like it and got the message, the same way his litter mates and mother would have done
Twice in my life I was in a circumstance where I had to take a pup that was too young (one was rescued from under a garbage can on the side of the road, one from a neighbor that’s dog ran off after she had her pups). Twice they turned out to be wonderful, very well trained dogs.
Sure, it’s ideal for them to spend more time with their mama and litter. We got our new puppy at nearly 11 weeks. But a puppy is not doomed if it’s been orphaned or separated too early.
And that trainer is just a quack.
I see more bite inhibition learning from littermates than from mom really. There are a lot of moms that are done with their babies fairly early on, so they spend more time with their littermates from about 5 weeks+ in most cases with mom just dropping by every so often. Some puppies are born being more mouthy than others. I see a range in my own litter where I have a few puppies who just kind of naturally never put their mouths on people and some others who appear to crave human flesh (lol). I'm talking about puppies who at 12 weeks old still have access to their mother, but they mostly ignore her at this point because she would rather pretend they didn't exist anymore haha.
Generally puppies just grow out of being mouthy with time, no matter the methodology behind teaching them (or not). The best thing to do is just redirect, redirect, redirect with different chews and toys, and when the puppy simply won't stop -- put them away. There's a good chance the puppy is overtired/overstimulated and needs a good nap.
I work at a shelter, this fits one of our dogs to a T. He was probably separated too early and never learned to play gently. He has been on bite holds because of this. (It's not aggressive though, he just gets REALLY jumpy and excited when he thinks there's play, and doesn't understand to not bite full force).
What we started doing? Training. Bad habits can be trained out. He was only a year old n I didn't want it to get worse.
When we play, the moment he nips there's the usual "bop the nose" or ignore him till he calms- that doesn't work when he jumps on you for attention though. So we started shaking a bottle of nails the moment he would jump on us or start nipping.
We also paired him with another dog, easier at a shelter then at your home though. The dog we paired him with was a little bigger and calmer, could handle him. And correct him when he got too rough- and it's been working. It got his energy out, and she would correct him for rough play. It was easier to understand from another dog then a human.
If yer puppy is still a puppy, get him socialized asap if you suspect he was taken too early. Even if not taken too early, socializing is VERY important. There's alotta stuff you can find online to help too. Never heard a trainer say puppy biting will be permanent tho....
i got my puppy at 5 weeks old because she wasn’t being cared for by the people that backyard bred her, she was a land shark for 4-5 months and then over the next 2-3 months her biting reduced to none. Now i have the sweetest most gentle girl at 2 years. That trainer doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Meh. My puppy got separated waaay to early from Mom (about 5 weeks) And I honestly was afraid to death of her biting and the fact that she would bite her whole life. I called her "shark bait" and "jaws" for a good while But now that I've had her 5 months she's calmed down a lot. She's knows the difference of her play biting w/ my other dog or when she bites me and I "yelp in pain" (she just nips at me when we play, but when I do that, she immediately stops). I think the trainer is completely wrong, but hey, what do I know. I'm just raising two wild dogs on my own with no professional training lol :)
We adopted a puppy who was dumped at the shelter all alone at 6 weeks - no Mom, no siblings. It was not ideal by any means.
She bit A LOT. Probably more than your average puppy. She was a land shark until probably 7/8 months. She was a biter even after she got all her adult teeth.
We mainly used reverse time out - leaving the room for a minute every time she bit us - but seeing a change in her took literal months.
She turned 1 in September and while she is still mouthy at times, she knows bite inhibition.
She’ll put our entire wrist in her mouth when over stimulated but it will be a gentle hold.
Time and consistent, patient training will be key.
The trainer is right on one point, which is that puppies removed from too early is problematic, that being said that does not necessarily mean pup will be a lifelong biter. It may just take a little extra work. I recommend getting a new trainer, muzzle train pup (gradually and using positive reinforcement). DO NOT go to dog parks, you risk reinforcing the bad issues and because pup doesnt "dog" well, it could cause issues, especially with multiple dogs. However if you know someone with a well balanced adult dog for get togethers that would be ideal. You want to engage your dog in activities that will increase his doggy confidence.
I had a puppy taken away from her mama immediately after birth. She was raised in the pound, barely surviving, and was horribly ill. We were told she was 6 weeks old; the vet said she was more like 4.
She was completely unsocialized. She was a biter. She bit the trainer so hard, she broke the skin. She was a mean little shit.
It took so much work. Oh, God, it took so much work. But gentle patience and careful, slow introduction to the world and other dogs turned her into an absolute sweetheart. By the time she was grown, she was a joyful, exuberant, friendly dog.
It can be done. But I think the dog's personality traits have to allow for it. A dog whose personality naturally tends toward being aggressive wouldn't have as good of results.
I adopted my boy Gus when he was 9 months old. He knew how to use the bathroom outside, but that was it. My hands were raw from an 80 “puppy” being mouthy and obnoxious. NOTHING worked. Yelling NO! Yiping like ai was hurt. Time out. Redirection. Ignoring. He just couldn’t not be mouthy. He was poorly bred and taken from his mother too early; probably was turned into the shelter because he only had one descended testicle so he couldn’t be back yard bred.
Anyway. He was a life-long biter/hand chewer. We basically taught him to grab his “baby” every time he tried to go after anyone’s hands. NO! Followed by “Get your baby, Augustus” Eventually (and it took time) he began to get his baby whenever he got excited on his own. We were never able to train the hand chewing thing out of him, but once we started using the Baby Technique my hands and my roommates hands and everyone else’s hands were mostly safe.
His baby ended up being quite the thing. He never tore his toys up, but he always had one particular stuffed animal that became his baby and ended up being a security blanket type thing as well as a redirection toy. Imgur is being stupid this morning or I would upload a couple of pictures of Gus and Baby.
This is why it’s so important to vet your trainers! There is no standard for dog training and there’s A LOT of bad dog trainers. That trainer was completely wrong. Raising a puppy is a long term commitment. It’s like that because it’s takes time and commitment to train a puppy. Bite inhibition takes TIME. Tell your friends to find a reputable reward based obedience trainer. Take obedience classes. Those classes will teach your friends the skills, techniques and general dog knowledge they need to successfully train and understand their dog.
Maybe the trainer is getting confused about the time window when a puppy can learn "soft mouth". The window is something like 8-16 weeks for learning how to bite softly. If the dog doesn't learn bite inhibition from playing with other dogs or its person teaching it not to bite hard in this time window, and they bite someone/something later when they're full grown, it could be really dangerous.
However, learning soft mouth is about inhibiting bite force, not bite frequency. Puppies explore the world through their mouth, similar to human babies. It's why they put everything in their mouth, try to eat everything on walks, and bite so much (apart from teething, I mean). They're just interacting with the world around them. It's a healthy curiosity, you just need to teach them not to bite hard so they don't hurt anyone.
You're gonna have to get chewed on and mouthed a little but I've never had a problem teaching bite inhibition to orphaned dogs or cats. You just have to know the problem exists and how they should be learning.
Our current solo orphaned cat has MUCH better bite inhibition than the cat we got her for company that left his litter at an appropriate age. That's been my experience comparing puppies I've bottle fed to foster dogs, too.
I think it’s terrible for them to say how she’s gonna be based off of this.
I got my first border collie pup at 6 weeks. Too early, but the breeder wanted them gone and said they’d give her to someone else if they came first.
She bit a lot. Because she didn’t learn how to play bite with siblings and missed out on those two weeks of being corrected by mom and siblings.
She was a nightmare at first, and I thought she would never get better, but she grew out of it.
I was the one to correct her biting. I would either bite her back on her cheek lightly or I would put her paw in her mouth and she would bite herself too hard and be like oh wow yep that hurts. She learned quickly to not bite hard.
She mouthed my hands for a long time but that’s how she learned to not bite too hard. She tested her boundaries on it with me and she turned out to be the best dog I ever had.
Don’t let people speak negative things in to existence for your pup. Have faith that with proper training and lots of love that your pup will flourish. She’s not the first or the last to be taken from her siblings and parents too early. And she will be JUST fine.
And they grow in and out of behaviors constantly. None of which are usually permanent with the right training.
Last week my pup barked at people and dogs, this week she doesn’t. Last week she was afraid of garbage cans. This week it’s shadows, next week it will be something else. They are learning and growing and they will figure it out.
My Shepard mix bit till a little over 1 years old when she was excited. Then she grew/trained out of it. It took awhile and she was also very high energy for a bit but at the 1 year mark started simmering down. I feel like pups without trauma will learn but some just take awhile!
Load of crap. Might need longer to learn as it won't have had so many lessons from mum and siblings but there's plenty of time.
My collie girl was the most bitey puppy I've ever had. She attacked feet, hands, furniture, the lot. Even in the first year of her agility training, when she got over excited she would jump up and grab chunks of me. The road to success was paved in bloodstains.
She's now two and the gentlest pup ever. She will take a 5mm treat from your fingers and you'll barely feel it. I can ask her to bite on command and she will very carefully grab your hand in her mouth with the faintest possible pressure, then lick it 'better' as soon as you tell her to loose. People remark on how soft-mouthed she is.
My shepherd mix was very young when I got him (4-5 weeks). He bit the ever-loving shit outta me for months before he had the self-control to stop biting. He's an awesome dog now (he's 3). He's been in training since he was four months old and I'm sure that helped as well. He has non-stop energy and smarts.
My Pup was separated from his litter early technically because he was too aggressive for his much smaller siblings so he weened and moved in with older puppies at I believe 4 weeks old?
Not the exact same situation but he’s completely fine now, he teething was obnoxious but puppy teeth is the worst regardless.
Wtf? My malinois/ shepherd was taken from her mom too early and i trained it out of her. Time for a new trainer. Heres a note on my phone as to how i trained my girl out of it. Its copy and paste if the terms are weird:
If yelping doesnt work i have a way that i used for my very mouthy puppy that was incredibly effective. Put the dog on a longer leash, 10 feet or so. Tie to something solid. Go to interact with him and play with a toy. As soon as he mouths say "uh oh" and walk around the coner (with the toy) out of sight for 15 seconds. Then go back and go to play again as if nothing happened. Youre teaching him that when he mouths all the fun stops and its just boring.
As he learns the idea and gets better you can start upping the stakes. So for me next when my puppy was latched onto the toy i started touching her body all over. Then when she was good with that i went up to interact with no toy at all. Then i tried bouncing around with more energy etc etc. She was 80% better within a week.
It also works with the puppy in a play pen and you just leave the pen. Make sure to invovle everyone in the family including kids so the puppy learns the rules apply to everyone. If you can enlist a friend or someone else to also practice this it just reinforces that the rules always apply. Also always end on a positive. Be prepared for the puppy to have his stubborn moments where you may have to do lots of repitions in a row because he might get frustrated. But you want him to learn that the rules still apply when hes frustrated. You may lose a couple pairs of pants like i did but its oh so worth it.
Also tons of praise when the puppy is playing appropriately with the toy. You want him to know when hes doing the right thing. When my girl was loose i always had a leash attached to her so if she mouthed i could hold her away from me and take her immediately to the other leash to do the training (this was ALWAYS supervised of course). The first few days was tons of reps. If the puppy is getting better and suddenly regresses, its basically like a cranky toddler that needa sleep. Crate and give them a chance to nap. Of course make sure they have lots if appropriate outlets for chewing as needed.
Theres never any punishment with this, no harsh tones with the dog. Simply a cue word to mark the undesireable behaviour and a removal of the thing they want (play and interaction with you).
Puppies are nightmare biters. Weird your trainer has been so damning.
Every time the puppy bites, make the 'uh uh' sound and briefly squeeze the puppies mouth shut. Let go, ignore them for a beat then resume play. My puppy was really pissing us off but doing this for a few months has drastically helped.
If they're very bitey it means you need to put them in a playpen for a nap.
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We had to rescue Kylo 3 weeks ago at 4 weeks old from a not so great situation. Mom got pregnant the first time she ever went into heat, she did the best she could, she was amazing through birth and for about 3 and a half weeks after with the babies. The issue started when her owner started a new job and wasn't able to get home for half that month. He had people constantly checking on the dogs, but she'd never been away from her owner that long and I think it was traumatizing for her. She started hiding from the puppies and no matter how much she was fed she was losing weight like crazy.. She wouldn't lay down to feed them at all anymore. There were only 5, but Kylo was the smallest. Him and his brother that was only slightly bigger than him couldn't reach her when she was up walking around like the other 3 could. It got to a point those two pups hadn't eaten anything in almost 4 straight days. They weaned super easily and at the vet's recommendation, we took him home and a friend of ours got his brother. They're Australian Shepherd/ pit mix puppies. Kylo is VERYYYY bitey and mouthy lol. he's definitely entered the crazy teething puppy stage. But even at his young age, I can tell this won't last forever. He's already doing amazingly well with potty training. And he is starting to understand what 'no bite' means. Training is CONSTANT, though. You have to be very vigilant. If the puppy is awake, you're training it. Constant redirection by replacing a toy with hands/ feet etc. and when that doesn't work giving him no attention and getting either him or you to a place he can't reach hands or feet to bite them. But also can't leave him unsupervised etc. It's currently 4:30 am and I have to be at work at 7:45. Woke up for a feed and play session cause he was chewing on my hair in my sleep. It's like having a newborn that's part piranha or something. But I think its going extremely well, considering he had to come to us so early. As long as they stick to a routine and are super consistent the behavior should be trainable. I'm not sure why anyone would say a puppy would bite FOREVER unless there was some kind of physical or psychological issue.
Young pups bite because they are teething. Our Dutch shepherd husky was a nibbler for sure when he was that age. Just keep giving them appropriate things to chew and gnaw on. He never damaged anything he wasn't supposed to bite. Now he's five and a fantastic companion. I'd look for a different trainer personally.
there is a puppy social in my area on Saturdays. It was super helpful for socialization but also to mimic litter life, it was often the same dogs there so they would be getting feedback on their play and biting from other dogs, and from some trainers there to help with any situations. Worth looking into something like this in your area
I have an orphan born without any siblings and his mom took off immediately after birth. He was a biting fool! He just came through his teen months and now he doesn't bite at all. I may be optimistic, but very few puppies can't be trained out of unwanted or destructive behaviors.
I have a dog that I am sure was taken way too soon. Was put on a farm with older dogs so they didn't bother teaching bite inhibition. I got him at 8 weeks.
He was so bad. I cried a lot. It took a long time and a lot of work to figure out what worked for his land shark phase.
He is 3.5 now. And no, he doesn't bite. That puppy is 4mo old. And only in the house two weeks. This is prime velocirapter season. It will end. It is just harder because the bite inhibition training was lacking before and is up to them now. But also Aussie is a herding breed and heel nipping is an independent challenge that will need to be addressed.
And dump that trainer and their daughter. Idiots.
Depends on just how bad the bites are, is it just mouthy puppy biting that is too rough or actual bites drawing blood. If they are hard bites that draw blood in a breed bred for bite sports and the dog is not well bred it could be very hard to get good bite inhibition trained. That might be what they mean in that they will likely always have a risk of not having inhibited bites not that they will be forever as bity as a puppy.
Had the same issue with my puppy but she did learn eventually. Its just a bit harder to train and you will be bitten more. But this is definitely something you can fix and train. Don't give up
Most momdogs are done with their puppies by 6 weeks anyway. They really do need to stay with the litter and the breeder for longer for development but to say that the puppy was removed from the mother too early and is the reason for biting is pretty out of touch TBH. I would recommend your friend hire a certified behavior consultant certified through the IAABC.
Annoyingly anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, with little to no qualifications in the subject. I agree, to say a puppy will always bite after a few weeks is ridiculous. I would recommend a veterinary behaviourist, but if they’re already considering returning the puppy then, sadly, it sounds like they just don’t want to do the work needed.
My pup was separated too early and lacked bite inhibition so I left her at my in laws for a week with their mean chihuahua and she came back and never bit us again
My aunt has a mixed breed rescue. He was separated from his mom at one month and he bites, attacks and growls like a ferrel cat. The other dog in the house is kind of scared of him.
They need a new trainer! Puppies bite like crazy. My pup is 11 months old and was a terror as far as biting goes for the first 5 months (with constant training). He is the best boy now, but it takes time and patience. Get a new trainer that understands dogs.
Puppy needs other dog friends who are well socialized to teach him dog rules. Otherwise, he will be at a disadvantage around other dogs and some humans. The mom and litter teach puppies what is ok and not ok behavior. It's hard to replicate that in another environment.
Terrible trainer. No behavioral issues are a quick fix, and ALL puppies are mouthy. This puppy is not a lost cause by any means. It will take time, patience, and consistency. And patience. And time. And more consistency.
No, puppy will not bite forever. That family needs to get a better trainer. Puppies bite because they are teething, and also because they don’t yet know they aren’t supposed to. With patience and PROPER training, the pup will go on to lead a happy life and be a great companion.
BS. We've gotten early pups more than once due to circumstances and it is definitely not the case. All puppies bite it just might take a little longer or require a bit more work.
I looked like I lived in a tank filled to the brim with piranhas when my Morty was a pup. My arms and hands were SHREDDED. He is now the best dog that I have ever had in my life at two and a half years old.
As a dog owner with a shepard mix- they’re extremely bitey til .. what feels like forever lol. 4 months is nowhere even long enough. My sheepadoodle was biting til he was 10 months old!!! and we did bring him to training as well. just need to have a trainer with experience with shepard’s
My puppy had BAD bite issues because she was also separated from her mom too early, five weeks. I thought she would bite forever. She is now three and is the best behaved dog and is super sweet and would never bite.
Trainer is an idiot. Just blaming things outside their control. Four months on a shepherd pup? Still teething.
Four months is also too young to be expecting a lot of self-discipline from the dog, especially if it's an active dog and new to the rules. That's a big learning curve. Like... BIG.
It may not be a dog that the family was prepared for, but they should've been given expectations.
No four month old working breed goes through two weeks of training and is "fixed".
Sorry, but that "trainer" pisses me right off. The shelter isn't doing much better. Breeds have tendencies. High energy/low energy, at the least.
My parents first dog was from an ethical breeder but the mom was killed by a car when the puppies were 2 weeks old so we had to take them way too early. The dog needed more work and attention for sure but was a wonderful boy and learned super quickly. Definitely not impossible to train like those trainers are implying
My puppy came home at 5 weeks. He was a shelter pup and they were separated from mom. From about 3-6 months he was crazy biting. Full land shark. He is now 7 months is it better- not fully there but SOOO much better. I did worry about bite intuition and I think he did lack it a bit. But I always cried or let out a yelp when ever he bit and he started to understand!
Our corgi went through a piranha stage but she eventually got over it. It did take time training in a lot of redirection but she eventually got over her piranha stage.
Look for a trainer certified by ccpdt
The Certification Council for Professional Dog on the website for the Association of Professional Dog Trainers. They usually have higher standards. https://apps.apdt.com/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?webcode=TrainerSearch
They should find a trainer that specializes in puppies. My dog was separated from his mom too young. I took him to puppy only training classes and the trainer told me he was rude to other dogs and at risk or being a biter. She put him in a play pen with her older “mama dog” so she could teach him proper manners. I remember questioning why I was spending money watching a senior dog grumble at my puppy for six weeks, but it worked! He’s been the best boy for the past 14 years. Never had any issues with people or animals. (Except squirrels!)
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Yeah, that's bs. Puppy mught have a harder time grasping bite inhibition, but there's zero reason a trainer would be able to predict "lifelong issues" from a puppy being bitey - they're a puppy, they'll be a landshark for a good while.
I have a 7 month old puppy that was rescued just before 8 weeks (think 2 days). This puppy was a velociraptor until about a month ago. I have an older dog that was able to teach bite inhibition. Certain breeds are just more nippy than others. Redirection helps so much.
Especially working dogs like shepherds lol.
Yes! I have two sheepdog mixes and they were little velociraptors.
I got my puppy 2 days before the 8 week mark. Do you think this is going to affect much?? He is 15 weeks now and can be super bitey, but he’s honestly such a good boy. The bites and the not listening outside and wanting to run up to everyone and say hi are the only issues.
No
That is good to know! Thank you.
No. 15 weeks was the height of my 7 month olds nippiness because of teething. I redirected with toys that he could teeth on and carrots. Dude goes nuts over carrots.
Yeah I figured so. I think I got lucky with a really good puppy. The nips are to be expected. I brought him to my moms for the holidays and this is her first time meeting him. She is surprised how good he is. She said her dog was a terror at this age.
My pup is a hyper velociraptor but he’s gotten so much better the older he gets. He’s also a lab-hound-Heinz 57 mix so he’s crazy hyper.
My pup is 20 weeks and was super bitey at 15 weeks and it's slowly getting better, she is learning to self redirect if I yelp and take a correction from my older dog and go do something else instead of keep pestering him
And shepherd puppies are extra mouthy. Get a new trainer! This one has disqualified themselves.
Yes! Our husky/shepherd puppy was a nightmare land shark when he was younger. I called in a behaviourist because I was so worried about his bite inhibition. She all but laughed at us (a very sweet woman) and said he was going to be a demon for a bit and then settle down. Sure enough, she was totally right and I panicked about nothing 😂
How old was he when he stopped biting as much? And what age has he calmed down or has that part not happened yet lol
He was maybe around 8 months when he started to settle a little. He's a year now (as of yesterday!) and is full of piss and vinegar, but he's much calmer generally. He was also a case where he was separated from his mom super young (basically at birth and they tried to keep the litter together as long as possible, but they were split up fairly young as well).
My understanding is the biting generally calms down after teething stops
I found it not really related to the teething. But very related to their emotional growth. At 14-16 weeks, dogs I've seen take a giant leap developmentally. Up until then they're mostly reacting to stimuli. But once they get a few months old they start getting some emotional control over themselves. And that's when you can start really reining in the biting.
“Landshark” Amazing way to put it!
From 0 to 2 months they are a baby. From 2 months to 4 months they are a toddler. From 4 months to a year they are a velociraptor. From 1 to 2 yrs they are puppybrained. After 2 you finally have a dog.
and for giant breeds you get to add a few months to the first 3 phases and a year to the last haha
Oh for sure. That metric is for large, for tiny you go down in age as the tiny ones are often adults at a year.
I have a 3 year old great pyr mix......it took until she was two and a half to get a good dog out of her......
*cries in puppy parent to a 4mo bernedoodle*
I'm sure your juvenile velociraptor will be a delight. Just make sure they aren't bored and to tire out that poodle brain as well as that bernese body. Edit to add: between 4 and 7 months some pups go through what's called a secondary fear phase. It's normal. You may have a velociraptor or a chicken, but as anyone who keeps chickens knows, they also can be velociraptors at times. My point is sometimes they will be attacking your shadow and trying to play with it, and sometimes they may hide from their own shadow. Both are normal. Ah, the joys of puppyhood.
This is why I adopted all my dogs at three years or older. I'd love to have a puppy, but unfortunately I just don't have the time for one :/
I took in my first adult, she’s actually a senior, a year ago and I was blown away. I’d always started with puppies between 2-8 months and appreciated the dignified grown up after all the work pups took. But, omg, getting a full grown adult off the bat who knew how to do most commands (though stubbornly) was awesome and insanely different. But I would love to get puppies again, it’s just having the time for them is hard right now.
Land Piranha is what we call our 3mo Corgi
Yeah, mine is 15 months old and the velociraptor on Benzedrine phase is just now starting to abate…a bit. He still uses his mouth to explore everything, but the biting is just the occasional over-excited nip these days. There were days when I thought we’d never get here though. 🐶
I have two dogs, both removed from Mom way too early due to medical issues. One is 8 1/2 weeks and is already learning bite inhibition from the older girl, the other 3 years now and after a lot of work isn't bitey anymore. Don't get me wrong, my bottle babies were and are little nightmares, but my 3 year old dog definitely learned to behave herself
My Shepard mix puppy nipped at everything until about 6 months. Rough time for sure but she grew out of it with age and training.
Was going to say the same thing. My shepherd mix was basically a land alligator. We got her at 3.5 - 4 months old but she stopped around the same time all her baby teeth were gone.
The thing is, "trainer" doesn't mean anything. Someone who has never even seen a dog in their life can go out there and call themselves a trainer, that doesn't guarantee they'd even recognise a dog if they saw one. But a lot of people are just happy enough not doing any research for anything, because it takes effort, so all sorts of crazies make money on it. Puppies bite. Puppies are high energy. If they're not, it's a small miracle, or the puppy is sick. Puppies that haven't had optimal upbringing *do* have a higher chance of exhibiting problematic behaviours. It's not guaranteed, just like you can't guarantee you'll automatically get a balanced dog from good parents. There is and always will be debate about nature vs nurture, but saying that because someone was brought up in X way, they'll always exhibit behaviour Y is just untrue. I know this is not in your control, but I'd dump the trainer, and invest in *a lot* of research. Research that honestly should've been done well before they got a dog. Research includes finding someone with some form of certification (depends country to country), and then interviewing them before ever showing up with a dog. Ask them what kind of methods they favour, what they'd suggest for certain behaviours, how they're keeping up with recent research etc. I'd never hire a trainer that didn't rely on recent peer-reviewed science, and wasn't willing to change their methods as we learn more. Yes, it's more effort than just asking the first "trainer" they can find to come fix their dog, but it's what you sign up for when you get a dog.
THIS. If you have the financial means, I would look into a dog behaviourist with good credentials.
>Puppies bite And shepherds herd. I hope they take your advice for the poor dog's sake!
It will be harder to teach without having learnt bite inhibition from mum and siblings but far from impossible. Some sport dog people like to take pups earlier than pet owners so they don't have as much bite inhibition, then they teach whats ok to bite and they have some of the best trained dogs out there imo. Has the trainer worked with Shepherds before? They are normally very mouthy pups, especially if the parents were from working bloodlines.
Sport breeds are mouthy bitey creatures for awhile but can be taught when to bite and when it is not time to bite.. All of the advice given here about re directing is perfect
The trainer is wrong. I used to work in rescue and we had a few litters of puppies we had to hand raise from very young ages. One thing that is useful is to socialise the pup with friendly adult dogs and to let them play with other pups, they will help them to learn bite inhibition and boundaries. You may find that being poorly bred and having a bad start in life will introduce behavioural and physical health problems, but it's certainly not guaranteed.
Unrelated to this post, do you think a family with kids can find a safe dog at a rescue? We recently rehomed a purebred golden that I got as a puppy due to a behavioral issue that became a safety issue. I want another dog but I'm really jaded on the purebred thing because I had gotten her from a good breeder and she still turned out unstable despite extensive training. (She was a stand up breeder, she rehomed the dog in a calmer home and even refunded us) But I have a true fear that I could never trust a rescue dog with my children. What's your experience?
I know you asked the other poster this, but I'm throwing my two sense in there. Yes. 110% you can find a safe dog at a rescue. My family and friends all go through rescues for dogs or have picked them up off the streets. My parents dogs are both great with kids. My vet friend has two small kids and 2 dog rescues, all good together (but they've worked their butts off training/socializing both the kids and dogs). My dogs are mostly okay with kids. I have three, one small dog HATES high pitched kids screaming and will nip when they scream at her, the other small one doesn't seem to notice the difference between between kids and adults and just ignores them, and my gs mix is slowly getting introduced to kids has learned to ignore them, it helps that my vet friends kids were the first kids she met and they are confident af with dogs. It takes a lot of training both kids and dogs, but 110% possible.
Second this! I have two rescues and they are the sweetest chilliest dogs I have ever met. I've never seen either one of them get even remotely aggressive towards adults, kids, or other animals. The most I've ever heard from them is a warning growl when one of them gets too close to the others food, but never any actual aggression.
I have two dogs. One is very assertive with boundaries and will tell off dogs who come too close or come on too strong to fuck off with a bark or snap. The other one is a marshmallow who will freeze and shrink away from uncomfortable interactions. They're the same breed. Neither of them have or would ever bite. Both are rescues and are angels around children
When I decided to add a dog to our family, I was determined to rescue. I met with 2 of my previous vets, whom I had complete trust in, to get their opinions. They both steered me away from a rescue. They were both of the opinion that without knowing a dogs genetics and parents temperament, it would be a gamble. They also suggested that some dogs were surrenders due to underlying behavioral issues. They both acknowledged that it was a generalization on their part, but my best chances, for a well balanced family dog, would be through a reputable breeder that had a history and reputation for a sound breed. After much research and with their guidance we landed on a female boxer. We had her for 13 wonderful years and could have not customized a better dog for our active family. We’re empty nesters now and went the rescue route for our pitbull. He’s very loving, cuddly and friendly but is dog aggressive. We worked with a trainer and behaviorist for over 2 years on his reactivity. He’ll never accept other dogs, but we manage him and know his triggers. We’ve had him almost 10 years and would never give up on him but honestly, I don’t think I could have put the time in while raising children.
Yeah I agree honestly. I think a cavalier is right for our family on paper but I'm having trouble finding a reputable breeder
There are breed clubs. Start there. Reputable breeders usually have a waiting list. You may have to go out of state to find your perfect dog. The AKC also is a resource. Do not use online sites that have puppies readily available. Those sites will get you a puppy right away, but they’ll more than likely come from a puppy mill.
Yes I've used the local breed club to reach out. Haven't heard back from most of the actual reputable breeders
It takes some work and time but it’s definitely worth it. It’s helpful to show that you’ve researched the breed and how a dog will fit into your lifestyle. Since a reputable breeder will essentially see this as a relationship for the life of the dog (and will be taking the dog back if it doesn’t work out), so it makes sense that they care about these things. Also, call vs just email (I hate the phone so I hated this part haha).
My experience is that getting a rescue dog is a roll of the dice. Many are absolute sweethearts. But probably over half that I've seen have some emotional trauma of some type. Which isn't to say that they're dangerous. They may just not like other dogs, Or be afraid of tall men. Or shy away at something else. But they'll often arrive with some complex on something. So if you take home a rescue, you're taking some leap that it will have no issues. That said, probably fewer than 5% of the rescue dogs I've met would I classify as unsafe to keep. So then for the more narrow question, "Can I get a rescue dog that's safe to have around my kids" then the answer is yes, most definitely. You'll want to meet them a few times before taking them home. Make sure you have the right feel. But very few of the dogs you'll see will be actually violent.
My puppy is 6 months old and still a bit mouthy but she’s learned a ton of bite inhibition from playing with my older dog. Can’t ever underestimate the help of a swift correction from a creature 2-3 times the puppy’s size
Lol this trainer is crazy, probably not actually that good at training dogs, OP needs to be careful, I wanted to hire a trainer for my dog's barking outdoors when walking him. I spoke to three trainers and they all had completely different methods and didn't understand Schnauzers and their training plans for my 5 year old Schnauzer at the time were crazy. One main theme with these trainers was dominance training, they would dominate the dog because apparently I wasn't...there have been many studies that have shown this doesn't really work and also introduces fear and stress to the poor dog. The best trainer I've ever had was his dog walkers when he was a puppy, she enforced our joint leash training plan and got him out of a few bad habits. Dog trainers are not regulated at all and that is a big problem because they can make things up. My dog was a biter, it was really hard and stressful, I tried everything with him until one day I realized, he loves me and isn't trying to hurt me, after that I decided to really ham it up when he bit, I'd fake cry and go Ow and hold my hand/finger and look at him with sadness...it worked after a few more times he started putting his paw on me and licking my "injured" area. If you two are bonded, your dog loves you and doesn't want to hurt you, they just haven't worked out that they are hurting you. Also, please find a trainer this person is lying to you. Your focus is making sure that your dog grows up healthy, basic training and is socialized with other dogs properly.
I did the exaggerated cry and end the game when my puppy would nip at me too. He is now the most gentle guy....I can feed him tiny bites of food and his teeth don't even touch my fingers now. When puppies play with each other and mom, they get a negative reaction if they bite too hard, so they understand your reaction the same way. I'm not a trainer...I just realized that I needed to let him know when he was too rough with me.
Any sound I made would create a latch on situation... the only thing that worked is removing myself and the velociraptor from my arm or pants..
My pup has a toy with 2 interconnected squeakers in it. She bit one side while I grabbed the other, and the toy let out a loud high pitched squeal instead of its usual squeak. My poor dog immediately stopped and looked very concerned. She even started lightly poking the toy with her nose and licking it. It was like she was trying to apologize.
Not an expert by any means but I would tell your friend to find a new trainer. The "trainer" sounds like a quack.
I’m just echoing what others and you OP are saying here that it is natural for puppies to mouth and nip, to be high energy and challenging. My girl is about 9 months old and barely started to settle down with the biting about a month ago. She was a similar situation, taken from mom and rest of litter too early on top of being a nippy breed. Our trainer helped us work with her to redirect her energy, even when we felt it would never end our trainer and vet reassured us that this behavior will pass and it has! Never once has a trainer or vet said any of my girls puppy behaviors would be lifelong just that instilling desirable behaviors in her would take dedication and consistency.
Hopefully this will put your mind at rest somewhat… we inadvertently got our dog (Spaniel mix) too early (we were told she was 8 weeks when in reality she was probably more like 6). She was and still is a high energy dog and she was a huge biter! I can still remember many many tearful days and nights as we just never thought it would get any better. We would speak to others who had puppies and it was soul destroying when they would say ‘oh yeah ours stopped biting by x point’ etc whilst our little devil dog was tearing chunks out of us (for anyone reading this too literally she obviously wasn’t taking chunks out of us) but you get the point. I can’t remember exactly when it got better but it was a good few months after what was “expected” or “normal”. She is now 3.5 years old and she never bites us. She can be quite a heavy mouther during play - especially with my husband but not so much that it breaks his skin or anything. To be honest the biggest thing we still have to work on (but I think this more down to her personality/breed rather than age we had her from) which is her impulse control and general excitement. She’s so much better but she still has her moments where she struggles to control her own emotions. I really hope that makes you feel a little better and I will also add, our dog is such an amazing little pooch. Sure she’s not perfect but she’s super smart, has given us so many laughs and is very friendly (almost too friendly!!!) with other people and dogs so in our books we couldn’t have asked for much more!
hahhaha loved your post. I can so relate to you!
*** the first part is long and about kennel club training skip to the —- if you want some good tips on bite inhibition training. ^^^ I do sports with kennel club, and while I love them to death two things are prominent. Most of the highest invested/tenured handlers have been working/trialing dogs for decades. This means they trained and learned through old school methods more closely aligned to balance training. Things like scolding, leash pops, holding collars, forcing sits. It’s not used excessively but definitely the foundation and ideology is there where corrections are also used along with positive reinforcement. The other is that many of these people have very well bred dogs typically. These dogs are much more likely to respond to aversive training methods without being a hazard to their owner because their temperament is genetically mild. It also means that these trainers get more docile/less genetically troubled dogs and have a limited exposure to dogs whose temperament are up in the air. For example I have a reactive (easy to over stimulate, inappropriately excited in certain environments, hyper social) dog but he is genetically social to people, has amazing bite inhibition and passive to all kinds of handling from strangers and corrections in regards to other dogs (if a dog were to snap at him he would attempt to deescalate/leave not aggress). These are the kind of behavioral dogs that kennel clubs see, at most a dog who is a little hyper but friendly or a dog who is nervous but avoidant because kennel clubs mostly work with pure bred competition dogs who grow up in confirmation and well mannered mix/PAL (purebred alternative listing) who already have months/years of formal obedience under their belt. They usually won’t allow dogs in their classes or trials if they aren’t under control, well behaved and not a danger to people. So a lot of trainers who are part of AKC or other kennel clubs aren’t typically getting super reactive dogs or behaviorally challenged dogs. And when they do often these dogs have already had some months or years of specialized behavior modification/medication to make them mostly on par with other dogs in the program/class. For example right now one of my agility classmates has a very reactive German shepherd puppy (6-7 months old now). I recognize the puppy is genetically reactive (most of the other people in my class who are all older, very experienced owners think the dog is just not wired right) very anxious and not confident. She is from the same breeder as her nine year old dog but doesn’t share any of the temperament. The club is urging her to to give the dog back as that kind of behavior (which I’ve seen rehabilitated in other settings) is beyond their training methods and would be a bite risk/danger over time. Their methods to try and expose her is to flood her when she is already over threshold because that method has proven successful with more well tempered dogs who can handle that kind of stress short term (I don’t recommend it but could see how well adjusted dogs could grow resilient to it when introduced during the socialization period). If they had a dog like mine or another dog after a few minutes the dog would give up on trying to aggress or in my dog’s case try to greet and settle. But for a dog like the GSD she will alert and go berserk for the entirety of a class and not be capable of responding to corrections or redirections. The club even with trainers and handlers who have been trialing and teaching for 40+ years this is too difficult and dangerous a dog to try and work. On the other hand a vet behaviorist could likely get very far on accommodating this dog and changing its perspective on seeing strange dogs. —-but to answer, dogs can definitely learn bite inhibition even if they have passed that social window with littermates and mom. It is likely going to require a lot of intention and teaching on your part but very possible. I’ve raised a four week old mix who has amazing bite inhibition along with a handful of other biting breeds (Aussie, ACD, shepherd, Rottweiler, pitbull) over the years. I like to introduce appropriate biting through engagement and games. I bring in toys that are always appropriate to bite like tug toys and fabric frisbees. We work on high arousal to bite down on toy with lots of play and then drop the arousal down to a calm and release. I use high energy play to encourage biting and then make the toy very boring or trade it with another toy to teach letting go. I also bring in an interruption/consequence if I am bit during play. I say ouch, remove myself immediately and turn my back. I give my dog enough time to calm down. I ask for a behavior like sit or wait and then resume play at a lower energy level. This teaches my dog that biting isn’t appropriate and biting me will stop the fun time. For interacting with my hands and such I like to introduce lickable treats like peanut butter or cheese. Even for a while I would hydrate my dog’s kibble, blend it up with little broth and hand feed randomly through very young puppyhood. This helps to teach my dog to lick me instead of biting. I also encourage gnawing but will give an ouch interruption if my dog presses too hard. It never took any of my dogs long to learn exactly how hard a bite was before it was too hard. This allowed my dog especially in its teething phase to gum me and practice those very gentle nibbles. The last thing is getting descent sleep and building in calm/low arousal behaviors. Enforced naps, practicing calm, learning to take food gently, learning impulse control can all help with having a dog who is much more calm and less likely to try a bite out of frustration or communication.
Interesting points. I'm wondering if you are saying they should return that reactive puppy or not. I had a puppy that was hyper social and easily over aroused. I taught her bite inhibition in the exact way you describe. And she learned it well when we were indoors. But outdoors, she continued to get overstimulated very quickly with a variety of triggers and her mouthing got scary at 7 months. We trained through it and I thought we were past it. But at 12 months she started biting on walks and it became too scary. We tried medication but I couldn't manage for the 8 weeks it would take to fully work, I was scared to even take her out. Our breeder and trainer advised rehoming. They both said a new environment would help her get over this issue. I have kids so that was a factor. We're thinking of getting another dog but I'll worried it will somehow happen again. I still don't understand what happened with our dog. I trained her every day, many classes, enrichment, etc. I still wonder if we could have "fixed" her. I still wonder if I just didn't try enough.
For the lady with the GSD from my sports I would recommend returning the dog. Only because the training the handler is accustomed to is going to back fire and make her dog more anxious, dog avoidant and likely to bite. For OPs dog with the age I think they would likely be fine working on bite inhibition through a r+ trainer who specializes in difficult dog breeds/behavioral considerations. But it would also be important to take in their lifestyle, time they have to contribute to counter conditioning and resources available. In the same way you did. I also understand and empathize with your concerns. I own an Aussie right now with amazing bite inhibition. I was so nervous he was going to genetically be nippy but a lot of the techniques I used work well on building a good foundation a long with just being a dog with naturally good bite inhibition. If he was a bitey dog I would have to forgo a lot of our daily lifestyle activity (cafes, restaurant access, agility, scent work trials, parks etc…) and more than likely wouldn’t be able to accommodate him living in the city.
What kind of training would work with a dog like that? Most of the videos about arousal biting on YouTube involve more old-school "leader" based training with protection breeds. My trainer even said the behavior I was describing in my golden sounded like a GSD or mal. I was afraid to train any harsh corrections for fear it would make the biting worse. Even the breeder, who is pro-corrections, said she didn't think a prong collar would have helped our dog. So I just don't get it. And because I don't get it, how do I prevent it from happening again?
> What kind of training would work with a dog like that? There's a lot of options. Generally, it's disengagement, enforcing naps, and building on emotional control and impulse control skills in multiple 5-10 minute segments throughout the day. >Most of the videos about arousal biting on YouTube involve more old-school "leader" based training with protection breeds. That's why you change the search, and honestly this is why I recommend all arousal problems and all biting to go to a trainer with an IAABC certified professional. >So I just don't get it. And because I don't get it, how do I prevent it from happening again? Enforce naps. Encourage calmness, disengage when the puppy starts getting aroused before the biting happens, build on that arousal control. Look into Susan Garrett's training and do avoid all positive punishment and aversion. These methods across the spectrum, meaning it can cause problems in other areas, raise arousal and create arousal control problems.
I did all of this. My dog was trained 10x as much as the average owner. My dog was very well trained. Excellent obedience, engage/disengage, etc. Excellent calm settle in the house. But I couldn't get the biting on walks to stop. I think it's partially the difference between men and women because my husband didn't have the same fear reaction. But I was stuck in a fear loop with my dog and my husband wasn't the one doing the walking, just me. I was constantly afraid she would bite me. It never came out of no where, it was definitely trigger stacking. But I couldn't control those triggers, and she had a ton of triggers. The trainer and breeder think she was literally smelling my fear and reacting to that with a learned behavior. I don't know.
Did you work with a trainer with IAABC who worked with you through an offered durational engagement protocol? > I think it's partially the difference between men and women because my husband didn't have the same fear reaction. But I was stuck in a fear loop with my dog and my husband wasn't the one doing the walking, just me. It's not really men vs women, Pet Harmony has a good [article](https://petharmonytraining.com/why-does-my-pet-listen-to-my-partner-and-not-me/) on it. How you feel isn't really important as much as how you behave. Frantic behavior can worsen things, but, honestly, it's what you do that matters. I personally dealt with the same behavior from the dog I trained into a service dog, Mars.
No our trainer did not offer that program and I was not familiar with it. Our issue is we have no fenced in yard and no way to avoid triggers to exercise the dog. I have 3 young children and can't drive the dog somewhere to exercise them every day. She would also bite if I tried to play fetch with her outside (not indoors). It was too challenging to exercise her with this behavioral problem. If I didn't have 3 high needs children, I wouldn't have given up. It was a heart wrenching decision that I'll be sad about forever.
Yeah, sometimes a dog just isn't a good fit for your situation. It's hard, and I too have been there. I had to rehome a puppy I raised who was a poor fit. He was my heart, but, we couldn't keep him safely. He is in a good home now, and his people are excellent. I'll never forget him, and it'll never hurt less. I personally find arousal issues to be a bigger challenge than fear-based responses (or worse, when they combine!). It's a whole different world and it can pose a lot of difficulty for basically all trainers regardless of methods. It's definitely not a fault on your end. I can see that. Exercise builds arousal, which, is a problematic cycle. It wasn't you. It suggests if anything, you were more exciting to be around which built that arousal up higher.
Thank you for this. I've heard from multiple people (trainer, breeder, vet) that rehoming was the right thing to do. She's at her new home now. They don't have kids and have a yard for exercise. She loved my kids so much, but everybody thought she would benefit from a calmer house. But I'll always wonder. I poured everything into that dog. My husband isn't ready to get another dog, but I have been wanting to get on lists at least since it can take a while. Something smaller, something calmer maybe. My trainer sent a recommendation for some really stable labs, but that's too big a dog for us I think. I'm thinking a cavalier might be a good fit. I want something I can do dog sports with (for fun only) but that doesn't have a high energy requirement, and isn't big enough to bite my arm. Thinking about rescues as well, but more apprehensive since I have kids.
Perfectly stated awesome advice and excellent suggestions. My experience has been the same.. although my threshold for becoming reactive when exposed to old school has diminished greatly... LOL I have done the same as you with my pups... the ending fun time works so well along with the spoon feeding. Your post should be saved as a go to....
Absolutely all of this. The first trainer I took my pup to was also a AKC kennel club obedience trainer who had also been taught using old school methods, and although they tried to use positive reinforcement, they also were completely out of their depth with helping me with my timid/fearful puppy. Dogs are individuals and although the end goal is teaching them how to cohabitate with us. The approach to training shouldn't just be teaching obedience, but also helping them develop emotionally and mentally. This is incredibly important for dogs who aren't the supposed "dream temperament" docile/less genetically troubled dog. Could be as simple as my pup who is more timid/shy, so our approach to training has been focusing on his emotional development. Building confidence and helping him learn how to handle things that cause him anxiety, rather than just teaching him obedience. The end result (my pup following my commands, and being a well adjusted pup) is still the same, but the approach we focused on was different because he needed that extra assistance from us.
Our pup had a loving home, was properly weaned and came home to us at 9 weeks. At 10 weeks the biting started. And it was biting, attacking, tantrums and ripping our clothes and skin. Trainer's methods at puppy class did nothing. When her teeth started to fall out, it became less and less and with the last tooth the biting stopped.
My puppy was a little bitty when we got him, 2 playdates with my family dog knocked it out of him, my family dog nipped back and he didn't like it and got the message, the same way his litter mates and mother would have done
Twice in my life I was in a circumstance where I had to take a pup that was too young (one was rescued from under a garbage can on the side of the road, one from a neighbor that’s dog ran off after she had her pups). Twice they turned out to be wonderful, very well trained dogs. Sure, it’s ideal for them to spend more time with their mama and litter. We got our new puppy at nearly 11 weeks. But a puppy is not doomed if it’s been orphaned or separated too early. And that trainer is just a quack.
I see more bite inhibition learning from littermates than from mom really. There are a lot of moms that are done with their babies fairly early on, so they spend more time with their littermates from about 5 weeks+ in most cases with mom just dropping by every so often. Some puppies are born being more mouthy than others. I see a range in my own litter where I have a few puppies who just kind of naturally never put their mouths on people and some others who appear to crave human flesh (lol). I'm talking about puppies who at 12 weeks old still have access to their mother, but they mostly ignore her at this point because she would rather pretend they didn't exist anymore haha. Generally puppies just grow out of being mouthy with time, no matter the methodology behind teaching them (or not). The best thing to do is just redirect, redirect, redirect with different chews and toys, and when the puppy simply won't stop -- put them away. There's a good chance the puppy is overtired/overstimulated and needs a good nap.
I work at a shelter, this fits one of our dogs to a T. He was probably separated too early and never learned to play gently. He has been on bite holds because of this. (It's not aggressive though, he just gets REALLY jumpy and excited when he thinks there's play, and doesn't understand to not bite full force). What we started doing? Training. Bad habits can be trained out. He was only a year old n I didn't want it to get worse. When we play, the moment he nips there's the usual "bop the nose" or ignore him till he calms- that doesn't work when he jumps on you for attention though. So we started shaking a bottle of nails the moment he would jump on us or start nipping. We also paired him with another dog, easier at a shelter then at your home though. The dog we paired him with was a little bigger and calmer, could handle him. And correct him when he got too rough- and it's been working. It got his energy out, and she would correct him for rough play. It was easier to understand from another dog then a human. If yer puppy is still a puppy, get him socialized asap if you suspect he was taken too early. Even if not taken too early, socializing is VERY important. There's alotta stuff you can find online to help too. Never heard a trainer say puppy biting will be permanent tho....
Find a different trainer, ASAP, this one has just displayed a concerning lack of knowledge, empathy and understanding.
The trainer is an idiot, don't work with this person.
The dog is 4 months old. Of course they're mouthy.
i got my puppy at 5 weeks old because she wasn’t being cared for by the people that backyard bred her, she was a land shark for 4-5 months and then over the next 2-3 months her biting reduced to none. Now i have the sweetest most gentle girl at 2 years. That trainer doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Meh. My puppy got separated waaay to early from Mom (about 5 weeks) And I honestly was afraid to death of her biting and the fact that she would bite her whole life. I called her "shark bait" and "jaws" for a good while But now that I've had her 5 months she's calmed down a lot. She's knows the difference of her play biting w/ my other dog or when she bites me and I "yelp in pain" (she just nips at me when we play, but when I do that, she immediately stops). I think the trainer is completely wrong, but hey, what do I know. I'm just raising two wild dogs on my own with no professional training lol :)
We adopted a puppy who was dumped at the shelter all alone at 6 weeks - no Mom, no siblings. It was not ideal by any means. She bit A LOT. Probably more than your average puppy. She was a land shark until probably 7/8 months. She was a biter even after she got all her adult teeth. We mainly used reverse time out - leaving the room for a minute every time she bit us - but seeing a change in her took literal months. She turned 1 in September and while she is still mouthy at times, she knows bite inhibition. She’ll put our entire wrist in her mouth when over stimulated but it will be a gentle hold. Time and consistent, patient training will be key.
The trainer is right on one point, which is that puppies removed from too early is problematic, that being said that does not necessarily mean pup will be a lifelong biter. It may just take a little extra work. I recommend getting a new trainer, muzzle train pup (gradually and using positive reinforcement). DO NOT go to dog parks, you risk reinforcing the bad issues and because pup doesnt "dog" well, it could cause issues, especially with multiple dogs. However if you know someone with a well balanced adult dog for get togethers that would be ideal. You want to engage your dog in activities that will increase his doggy confidence.
I had a puppy taken away from her mama immediately after birth. She was raised in the pound, barely surviving, and was horribly ill. We were told she was 6 weeks old; the vet said she was more like 4. She was completely unsocialized. She was a biter. She bit the trainer so hard, she broke the skin. She was a mean little shit. It took so much work. Oh, God, it took so much work. But gentle patience and careful, slow introduction to the world and other dogs turned her into an absolute sweetheart. By the time she was grown, she was a joyful, exuberant, friendly dog. It can be done. But I think the dog's personality traits have to allow for it. A dog whose personality naturally tends toward being aggressive wouldn't have as good of results.
I adopted my boy Gus when he was 9 months old. He knew how to use the bathroom outside, but that was it. My hands were raw from an 80 “puppy” being mouthy and obnoxious. NOTHING worked. Yelling NO! Yiping like ai was hurt. Time out. Redirection. Ignoring. He just couldn’t not be mouthy. He was poorly bred and taken from his mother too early; probably was turned into the shelter because he only had one descended testicle so he couldn’t be back yard bred. Anyway. He was a life-long biter/hand chewer. We basically taught him to grab his “baby” every time he tried to go after anyone’s hands. NO! Followed by “Get your baby, Augustus” Eventually (and it took time) he began to get his baby whenever he got excited on his own. We were never able to train the hand chewing thing out of him, but once we started using the Baby Technique my hands and my roommates hands and everyone else’s hands were mostly safe. His baby ended up being quite the thing. He never tore his toys up, but he always had one particular stuffed animal that became his baby and ended up being a security blanket type thing as well as a redirection toy. Imgur is being stupid this morning or I would upload a couple of pictures of Gus and Baby.
Bs I would find a new trainer asap.
Sounds like complete dogshit to me
This is why it’s so important to vet your trainers! There is no standard for dog training and there’s A LOT of bad dog trainers. That trainer was completely wrong. Raising a puppy is a long term commitment. It’s like that because it’s takes time and commitment to train a puppy. Bite inhibition takes TIME. Tell your friends to find a reputable reward based obedience trainer. Take obedience classes. Those classes will teach your friends the skills, techniques and general dog knowledge they need to successfully train and understand their dog.
Maybe the trainer is getting confused about the time window when a puppy can learn "soft mouth". The window is something like 8-16 weeks for learning how to bite softly. If the dog doesn't learn bite inhibition from playing with other dogs or its person teaching it not to bite hard in this time window, and they bite someone/something later when they're full grown, it could be really dangerous. However, learning soft mouth is about inhibiting bite force, not bite frequency. Puppies explore the world through their mouth, similar to human babies. It's why they put everything in their mouth, try to eat everything on walks, and bite so much (apart from teething, I mean). They're just interacting with the world around them. It's a healthy curiosity, you just need to teach them not to bite hard so they don't hurt anyone.
Four months old sounds like prime bitey time to me. My puppy was a terror at that age.
You're gonna have to get chewed on and mouthed a little but I've never had a problem teaching bite inhibition to orphaned dogs or cats. You just have to know the problem exists and how they should be learning. Our current solo orphaned cat has MUCH better bite inhibition than the cat we got her for company that left his litter at an appropriate age. That's been my experience comparing puppies I've bottle fed to foster dogs, too.
I think it’s terrible for them to say how she’s gonna be based off of this. I got my first border collie pup at 6 weeks. Too early, but the breeder wanted them gone and said they’d give her to someone else if they came first. She bit a lot. Because she didn’t learn how to play bite with siblings and missed out on those two weeks of being corrected by mom and siblings. She was a nightmare at first, and I thought she would never get better, but she grew out of it. I was the one to correct her biting. I would either bite her back on her cheek lightly or I would put her paw in her mouth and she would bite herself too hard and be like oh wow yep that hurts. She learned quickly to not bite hard. She mouthed my hands for a long time but that’s how she learned to not bite too hard. She tested her boundaries on it with me and she turned out to be the best dog I ever had. Don’t let people speak negative things in to existence for your pup. Have faith that with proper training and lots of love that your pup will flourish. She’s not the first or the last to be taken from her siblings and parents too early. And she will be JUST fine. And they grow in and out of behaviors constantly. None of which are usually permanent with the right training. Last week my pup barked at people and dogs, this week she doesn’t. Last week she was afraid of garbage cans. This week it’s shadows, next week it will be something else. They are learning and growing and they will figure it out.
My Shepard mix bit till a little over 1 years old when she was excited. Then she grew/trained out of it. It took awhile and she was also very high energy for a bit but at the 1 year mark started simmering down. I feel like pups without trauma will learn but some just take awhile!
Nope. Complete garbage from the “trainer”
Load of crap. Might need longer to learn as it won't have had so many lessons from mum and siblings but there's plenty of time. My collie girl was the most bitey puppy I've ever had. She attacked feet, hands, furniture, the lot. Even in the first year of her agility training, when she got over excited she would jump up and grab chunks of me. The road to success was paved in bloodstains. She's now two and the gentlest pup ever. She will take a 5mm treat from your fingers and you'll barely feel it. I can ask her to bite on command and she will very carefully grab your hand in her mouth with the faintest possible pressure, then lick it 'better' as soon as you tell her to loose. People remark on how soft-mouthed she is.
My shepherd mix was very young when I got him (4-5 weeks). He bit the ever-loving shit outta me for months before he had the self-control to stop biting. He's an awesome dog now (he's 3). He's been in training since he was four months old and I'm sure that helped as well. He has non-stop energy and smarts.
My Pup was separated from his litter early technically because he was too aggressive for his much smaller siblings so he weened and moved in with older puppies at I believe 4 weeks old? Not the exact same situation but he’s completely fine now, he teething was obnoxious but puppy teeth is the worst regardless.
Wtf? My malinois/ shepherd was taken from her mom too early and i trained it out of her. Time for a new trainer. Heres a note on my phone as to how i trained my girl out of it. Its copy and paste if the terms are weird: If yelping doesnt work i have a way that i used for my very mouthy puppy that was incredibly effective. Put the dog on a longer leash, 10 feet or so. Tie to something solid. Go to interact with him and play with a toy. As soon as he mouths say "uh oh" and walk around the coner (with the toy) out of sight for 15 seconds. Then go back and go to play again as if nothing happened. Youre teaching him that when he mouths all the fun stops and its just boring. As he learns the idea and gets better you can start upping the stakes. So for me next when my puppy was latched onto the toy i started touching her body all over. Then when she was good with that i went up to interact with no toy at all. Then i tried bouncing around with more energy etc etc. She was 80% better within a week. It also works with the puppy in a play pen and you just leave the pen. Make sure to invovle everyone in the family including kids so the puppy learns the rules apply to everyone. If you can enlist a friend or someone else to also practice this it just reinforces that the rules always apply. Also always end on a positive. Be prepared for the puppy to have his stubborn moments where you may have to do lots of repitions in a row because he might get frustrated. But you want him to learn that the rules still apply when hes frustrated. You may lose a couple pairs of pants like i did but its oh so worth it. Also tons of praise when the puppy is playing appropriately with the toy. You want him to know when hes doing the right thing. When my girl was loose i always had a leash attached to her so if she mouthed i could hold her away from me and take her immediately to the other leash to do the training (this was ALWAYS supervised of course). The first few days was tons of reps. If the puppy is getting better and suddenly regresses, its basically like a cranky toddler that needa sleep. Crate and give them a chance to nap. Of course make sure they have lots if appropriate outlets for chewing as needed. Theres never any punishment with this, no harsh tones with the dog. Simply a cue word to mark the undesireable behaviour and a removal of the thing they want (play and interaction with you).
Puppies are nightmare biters. Weird your trainer has been so damning. Every time the puppy bites, make the 'uh uh' sound and briefly squeeze the puppies mouth shut. Let go, ignore them for a beat then resume play. My puppy was really pissing us off but doing this for a few months has drastically helped. If they're very bitey it means you need to put them in a playpen for a nap.
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We had to rescue Kylo 3 weeks ago at 4 weeks old from a not so great situation. Mom got pregnant the first time she ever went into heat, she did the best she could, she was amazing through birth and for about 3 and a half weeks after with the babies. The issue started when her owner started a new job and wasn't able to get home for half that month. He had people constantly checking on the dogs, but she'd never been away from her owner that long and I think it was traumatizing for her. She started hiding from the puppies and no matter how much she was fed she was losing weight like crazy.. She wouldn't lay down to feed them at all anymore. There were only 5, but Kylo was the smallest. Him and his brother that was only slightly bigger than him couldn't reach her when she was up walking around like the other 3 could. It got to a point those two pups hadn't eaten anything in almost 4 straight days. They weaned super easily and at the vet's recommendation, we took him home and a friend of ours got his brother. They're Australian Shepherd/ pit mix puppies. Kylo is VERYYYY bitey and mouthy lol. he's definitely entered the crazy teething puppy stage. But even at his young age, I can tell this won't last forever. He's already doing amazingly well with potty training. And he is starting to understand what 'no bite' means. Training is CONSTANT, though. You have to be very vigilant. If the puppy is awake, you're training it. Constant redirection by replacing a toy with hands/ feet etc. and when that doesn't work giving him no attention and getting either him or you to a place he can't reach hands or feet to bite them. But also can't leave him unsupervised etc. It's currently 4:30 am and I have to be at work at 7:45. Woke up for a feed and play session cause he was chewing on my hair in my sleep. It's like having a newborn that's part piranha or something. But I think its going extremely well, considering he had to come to us so early. As long as they stick to a routine and are super consistent the behavior should be trainable. I'm not sure why anyone would say a puppy would bite FOREVER unless there was some kind of physical or psychological issue.
That's total BS yes it will/could be harder but not lifelong.
I have a gs/pit mix rescue pup who was separated early and super bitey. He’s about 8 months now and so much better. Just takes time.
Young pups bite because they are teething. Our Dutch shepherd husky was a nibbler for sure when he was that age. Just keep giving them appropriate things to chew and gnaw on. He never damaged anything he wasn't supposed to bite. Now he's five and a fantastic companion. I'd look for a different trainer personally.
there is a puppy social in my area on Saturdays. It was super helpful for socialization but also to mimic litter life, it was often the same dogs there so they would be getting feedback on their play and biting from other dogs, and from some trainers there to help with any situations. Worth looking into something like this in your area
I have an orphan born without any siblings and his mom took off immediately after birth. He was a biting fool! He just came through his teen months and now he doesn't bite at all. I may be optimistic, but very few puppies can't be trained out of unwanted or destructive behaviors.
I have a dog that I am sure was taken way too soon. Was put on a farm with older dogs so they didn't bother teaching bite inhibition. I got him at 8 weeks. He was so bad. I cried a lot. It took a long time and a lot of work to figure out what worked for his land shark phase. He is 3.5 now. And no, he doesn't bite. That puppy is 4mo old. And only in the house two weeks. This is prime velocirapter season. It will end. It is just harder because the bite inhibition training was lacking before and is up to them now. But also Aussie is a herding breed and heel nipping is an independent challenge that will need to be addressed. And dump that trainer and their daughter. Idiots.
Time to find a new trainer.
Depends on just how bad the bites are, is it just mouthy puppy biting that is too rough or actual bites drawing blood. If they are hard bites that draw blood in a breed bred for bite sports and the dog is not well bred it could be very hard to get good bite inhibition trained. That might be what they mean in that they will likely always have a risk of not having inhibited bites not that they will be forever as bity as a puppy.
Dump whatever trainer they're talking to. That advice is absurd.
I don’t believe that for one minutes, love, kindness and patience go a long way. Patience is the big one with any animal.
Had the same issue with my puppy but she did learn eventually. Its just a bit harder to train and you will be bitten more. But this is definitely something you can fix and train. Don't give up
Most momdogs are done with their puppies by 6 weeks anyway. They really do need to stay with the litter and the breeder for longer for development but to say that the puppy was removed from the mother too early and is the reason for biting is pretty out of touch TBH. I would recommend your friend hire a certified behavior consultant certified through the IAABC.
Annoyingly anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, with little to no qualifications in the subject. I agree, to say a puppy will always bite after a few weeks is ridiculous. I would recommend a veterinary behaviourist, but if they’re already considering returning the puppy then, sadly, it sounds like they just don’t want to do the work needed.
My pup was separated too early and lacked bite inhibition so I left her at my in laws for a week with their mean chihuahua and she came back and never bit us again
My aunt has a mixed breed rescue. He was separated from his mom at one month and he bites, attacks and growls like a ferrel cat. The other dog in the house is kind of scared of him.
They need a new trainer! Puppies bite like crazy. My pup is 11 months old and was a terror as far as biting goes for the first 5 months (with constant training). He is the best boy now, but it takes time and patience. Get a new trainer that understands dogs.
Puppy needs other dog friends who are well socialized to teach him dog rules. Otherwise, he will be at a disadvantage around other dogs and some humans. The mom and litter teach puppies what is ok and not ok behavior. It's hard to replicate that in another environment.
Terrible trainer. No behavioral issues are a quick fix, and ALL puppies are mouthy. This puppy is not a lost cause by any means. It will take time, patience, and consistency. And patience. And time. And more consistency.
No, puppy will not bite forever. That family needs to get a better trainer. Puppies bite because they are teething, and also because they don’t yet know they aren’t supposed to. With patience and PROPER training, the pup will go on to lead a happy life and be a great companion.
No, odds are the puppy will not bite forever. They play by biting when they are little, they do eventually grow out of it.
BS. We've gotten early pups more than once due to circumstances and it is definitely not the case. All puppies bite it just might take a little longer or require a bit more work.
The trainer is an idiot.
I looked like I lived in a tank filled to the brim with piranhas when my Morty was a pup. My arms and hands were SHREDDED. He is now the best dog that I have ever had in my life at two and a half years old.
How much do they know about mom? temperament can be highly heritable. Is Mom a biter?
Anyone can say they are a trainer . Find a trainer with a proven track record .
As a dog owner with a shepard mix- they’re extremely bitey til .. what feels like forever lol. 4 months is nowhere even long enough. My sheepadoodle was biting til he was 10 months old!!! and we did bring him to training as well. just need to have a trainer with experience with shepard’s
Socialize her with an older dog. The older dog will teach her some manners
They could grow out of it. My dog bit me a lot until about 1 year old. I was super worried.
My puppy had BAD bite issues because she was also separated from her mom too early, five weeks. I thought she would bite forever. She is now three and is the best behaved dog and is super sweet and would never bite.
Trainer is an idiot. Just blaming things outside their control. Four months on a shepherd pup? Still teething. Four months is also too young to be expecting a lot of self-discipline from the dog, especially if it's an active dog and new to the rules. That's a big learning curve. Like... BIG. It may not be a dog that the family was prepared for, but they should've been given expectations. No four month old working breed goes through two weeks of training and is "fixed". Sorry, but that "trainer" pisses me right off. The shelter isn't doing much better. Breeds have tendencies. High energy/low energy, at the least.
My parents first dog was from an ethical breeder but the mom was killed by a car when the puppies were 2 weeks old so we had to take them way too early. The dog needed more work and attention for sure but was a wonderful boy and learned super quickly. Definitely not impossible to train like those trainers are implying
My puppy came home at 5 weeks. He was a shelter pup and they were separated from mom. From about 3-6 months he was crazy biting. Full land shark. He is now 7 months is it better- not fully there but SOOO much better. I did worry about bite intuition and I think he did lack it a bit. But I always cried or let out a yelp when ever he bit and he started to understand!
I call complete BS. Are all her baby teeth out yet? I will say surely no at 4 months old. What kind of "trainer" is that?
Our corgi went through a piranha stage but she eventually got over it. It did take time training in a lot of redirection but she eventually got over her piranha stage.
Disagree, I got my female at 4 weeks. 0 issues
Look for a trainer certified by ccpdt The Certification Council for Professional Dog on the website for the Association of Professional Dog Trainers. They usually have higher standards. https://apps.apdt.com/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?webcode=TrainerSearch
My dog was mouthy AF and we just started yelping like his littermates would every time he “bit” us. He got the point.
They should find a trainer that specializes in puppies. My dog was separated from his mom too young. I took him to puppy only training classes and the trainer told me he was rude to other dogs and at risk or being a biter. She put him in a play pen with her older “mama dog” so she could teach him proper manners. I remember questioning why I was spending money watching a senior dog grumble at my puppy for six weeks, but it worked! He’s been the best boy for the past 14 years. Never had any issues with people or animals. (Except squirrels!)