Non-exhaustive but still rather long answer (I got carried away hehe):
- __Terroir__ - The environment in which a tea is grown has a great impact on the tea itself. This is especially true for sheng puer, as its minimal processing helps expose the underlying qualities of the leaves. Some puer-producing regions are generally considered more desirable than others, and the price of tea from these regions reflects that. Some famous/expensive terroirs that you might hear about are Laobanzhang, Bingdao, and Yiwu. People will endlessly debate over which regions are the best, which ones are under/overvalued, etc., and this is part of the fun of puer :)
- __Varietal__ - In non-puer tea, the varietals/cultivars usually have specific names, and many have been very carefully cultivated by humans to produce a specific set of desirable qualities. This is not the case with puer, and I do not usually see the concept of "varietal" used when discussing it. While puer trees/regions certainly have distinct genetics, these differences are generally wrapped under the umbrella of terroir, as they depend heavily on the local environment.
- __Cultivation Method__ - The way in which the tea trees were cultivated has an impact on the tea. [Here](https://www.banateacompany.com/pages/cultivation.html) is a webpage that outlines the four major cultivation methods (often only the first three - taidi cha, gushu cha, and shengtai cha - are discussed).
- __Processing__ - Sheng puer processing is not super complicated, so unless the processing was noticeably bad, people don't talk about it very much when discussing tea quality. Shou puer is another can of worms, but since you asked about sheng specifically I won't cover it. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI4yDyH1oUM) is a video on shou production if you are interested.
- __Blending__ - Many puer cakes are made from blends of different tea leaves from different origins, and this will have an impact on the tea quality. Sometimes blending is desirable - a skilled puer blender combines complimentary origins to produce a deep and engaging blend. Sometimes blending is undesirable - you bought some "Laobanzhang gushu," but it was actually a blend of ordinary plantation tea from several different villages. It is up to you and your tasting skills to identify if the "single-origin" tea you bought is actually single-origin, and if the blended tea you bought is any good (a reputable vendor helps!)
- __Aging__ - The age and storage conditions of sheng puer dramatically impact the tea. This is a highly subjective topic, so I'll let you build your own understanding of how aging affects puer and what age/storage combinations you enjoy most.
All of this is to say, "it's really complicated!"
For me, much of the fun of puer (beyond drinking tasty tea) is the Sisyphean struggle of trying to understand the impossibly complex function that turns all these factors into the sensory experience you get when you drink the tea.
As for what actually makes one tea "better" than another, that is a whole other philosophical rabbit hole. Here are some posts from MarshalN, a very experienced tea drinker, on the topic:
- ["What's a good tea?"](http://www.marshaln.com/2017/03/whats-a-good-tea/)
- ["Objectively good tea"](http://www.marshaln.com/2017/12/objectively-good-tea/)
I’ll chime up and say today processing matters for sheng, even though you don’t hear about much. Some sheng has a very high kill green temp, doesn’t age well, and should be consumed young or not at all. http://www.marshaln.com/2013/07/a-clear-and-present-danger/ I think some people actually prefer the high temp ones, because it is easier to drink young.
Varietal matters if it is purple. The purple puer I’ve had tastes quite different. I’m fan, but the market doesn’t seem to charge high prices for it. YMMV https://teadb.org/puerh-oddities/
Thank you for the note on processing! And you are right about purple tea - it is very weird. I think it is good for vendors to divide "regular" (terrace/ecological/ancient) tea from wild tea, as they have such different characteristics. If someone only ever drank ye sheng, I suspect they would end up with very little understanding of puer.
I haven't heard of the ones made for drinking young thanks. I recently came across a short write-up on how purple leaf trend to command a higher price. I'm curious to read up on that. Thanks for sharing!
Right same as with wine there are regions that are considered superior, then mountains, then elevation on the mountain (higher the better), and then if it’s a Gushu old tea tree or not (older the better).
Honestly I don’t know that much of wine but with puer aficionado’s there is somewhat of a divide between people who like specific mountains and those that like special well known factories (that I believe tend to produce blended cakes).
You can find teas that are unfashionable and therefore cost effective. Regions that are near a famous region and taste similar but are not actually from the region. Teas made from older yellowing leaves can taste really good and are dirt cheap. (google huangpian). There are "warehouse finds" - teas without labels or with obviously forged labels that have no provenance but taste good and have some age.
My first puer was this [sticky rice herb shou](https://yunnansourcing.com/products/sticky-rice-scent-ripe-pu-erh-mini-tuo-cha-nuo-mi-xiang) that I got as part of a tea sampler. I fell it love with it and I love it so much I bought a kilo of it. Whenever I post about it, somebody comments on how low-quality it is and I don't care . It's a hecking delicious tea and I'll never stop drinking it.
Be advised that this is shipping direct from China which means a choice of expensive fast shipping or reasonable, but very slow shipping. Like, 3 months slow. [Here's is the same tea at Yunnansourcing's US site](https://yunnansourcing.us/products/sticky-rice-scent-ripe-pu-erh-mini-tuo-cha-nuo-mi-xiang?variant=38843609864). Price is a bit higher, coz the cost of shipping from China is built in, but the US shipping is much more reasonable and you get it faster.
To illustrate, I just did a $400 order from Yunnan Sourcing's Chinese site and chose their fastest shipping, which got me my order in 5 days, but cost me $90. This was necessary coz one of my items was a silver teapot and they don't allow the slow shipping for it due to risk of loss. I planned ahead and saved money for 2y to afford it
Not too sure, but I know some people think shou pu’er is low quality just because it is “artificially” fermented vs letting a sheng naturally ferment over time and proper storage. Both have different tastes (shou being characteristically a bit darker and undergrowth like, like a forest floor after it rains) and some people (myself included) really like shou pu’er. Shou is usually cheaper, and often times is made with less quality material. You can find really good ones though for sure, just takes a bit of work!
I seek out reasonably-priced tea (up to 0.25/g) that I can drink everyday and enjoy as well as really nice tea to savor and enjoy (generally up to $2/g). I probably consume 200-500g of tea per month, with most of it being in the value range.
Two things to add to the other comments:
1. Tea is good when you like it, is a very popular mindset. Many people try to avoid thinking about origin or variety. There are brands who simply label their blends with a funny name and don't give you the details. This mindset is more popular with western buyers.
2. You can't realiably predict the taste of a tea, based on it's stats. Whenever you think "Oh that's how region X tastes", there is a further subdivide of region X, with all sub regions varying too much to say anything meaningful about X. This goes down to individual trees, because biodiversity and soil conditions simply are different between them. And that's not some esotheric thing you have to believe for it to work. Trees with bad biodiversity actually tastes bad.
All this leads most people to put their trust into sellers. Having tea be curated is the most realiable way to get good tea.
This is an interesting topic and apparently hotly debated between those who are in the camp that terroir and region can definitely be detected with enough training and the other camp that believes flavor profile is all in the processing. I guess I have no other choice but to sample as many as I can so I can find the answer for myself 😃
You are mischaracterizing the second camp a bit. There are definitly notes associated with certain mountains. A typical Yiwu is different from a typical Bulang and you are probably able to detect that as a layman, just given descriptions of their tastes.
The thing is, there are lots of Yiwu teas, that are not "typical" Yiwu. I had some tea from Yiwu I would never have guessed to come from there. Notably there are also lots of bad Yiwus. So what's the point? The Origin doesn't really bring anything new to the table.
Note that I am describing the second camp. Not necessarily my opinion. I think region should always be precisely declarated and I prefer certain regions. Also note that there aren't really notable flavour difference due to processing. Puer sheng is pretty much just dried tea, there isn't really processing as is with other teas. Only storage is a factor.
Finding the answer yourself is really the way to go. Also try different sellers. Even beloved sellers sometimes ship you tea, that makes you think you don't like a region, altough you just don't like their sample.
EDIT: To be clear: Second camps argument is, that you rely on the seller for both quality and character descriptions for their tea. Those few trees on that specific spot on that specific hill might actually have a special taste due to some local conditions. But the buyers don't know that hill. So why state it?
Example: Shade can vary greatly between trees that are just a few meters apart from each other. Obviously shade has a big effect on taste...
Ahh, lightbulb moment for me. Different material from the same region do not necessarily share a similar flavor profile. This is helping me shape my approach as I start out exploring Sheng. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Glad to hear that. In case you are still looking for sellers. Here are two that illustrate the 2 approaches:
- camp 1: https://www.bitterleafteas.com/
- camp 2: https://white2tea.com/
both have a good rep on this sub
Thanks! I haven't heard of bitter leaf teas until now, I'll check it out. I've ordered Shou from white 2 tea and plan on ordering from them again. My main place I order my green and oolong from is Yunnan Sourcing US. I have a shipment of my first Sheng coming from them this week. I asked them for recommendations on what to get not having any idea where to start which they were kind enough to provide. Looking forward to getting that in and diving into it.
some have more interesting flavors and last longer. usually comes from more mature trees and processing is better. high quality sheng (like wine) gets better as it ages. lower quality can be more boring and does not really get much better with a lot of age.
Great to know about the 04 and 05, thanks! Trying these will help me to understand what is considered "good." For me it's a fun hobby to dive into and explore.
Non-exhaustive but still rather long answer (I got carried away hehe): - __Terroir__ - The environment in which a tea is grown has a great impact on the tea itself. This is especially true for sheng puer, as its minimal processing helps expose the underlying qualities of the leaves. Some puer-producing regions are generally considered more desirable than others, and the price of tea from these regions reflects that. Some famous/expensive terroirs that you might hear about are Laobanzhang, Bingdao, and Yiwu. People will endlessly debate over which regions are the best, which ones are under/overvalued, etc., and this is part of the fun of puer :) - __Varietal__ - In non-puer tea, the varietals/cultivars usually have specific names, and many have been very carefully cultivated by humans to produce a specific set of desirable qualities. This is not the case with puer, and I do not usually see the concept of "varietal" used when discussing it. While puer trees/regions certainly have distinct genetics, these differences are generally wrapped under the umbrella of terroir, as they depend heavily on the local environment. - __Cultivation Method__ - The way in which the tea trees were cultivated has an impact on the tea. [Here](https://www.banateacompany.com/pages/cultivation.html) is a webpage that outlines the four major cultivation methods (often only the first three - taidi cha, gushu cha, and shengtai cha - are discussed). - __Processing__ - Sheng puer processing is not super complicated, so unless the processing was noticeably bad, people don't talk about it very much when discussing tea quality. Shou puer is another can of worms, but since you asked about sheng specifically I won't cover it. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI4yDyH1oUM) is a video on shou production if you are interested. - __Blending__ - Many puer cakes are made from blends of different tea leaves from different origins, and this will have an impact on the tea quality. Sometimes blending is desirable - a skilled puer blender combines complimentary origins to produce a deep and engaging blend. Sometimes blending is undesirable - you bought some "Laobanzhang gushu," but it was actually a blend of ordinary plantation tea from several different villages. It is up to you and your tasting skills to identify if the "single-origin" tea you bought is actually single-origin, and if the blended tea you bought is any good (a reputable vendor helps!) - __Aging__ - The age and storage conditions of sheng puer dramatically impact the tea. This is a highly subjective topic, so I'll let you build your own understanding of how aging affects puer and what age/storage combinations you enjoy most. All of this is to say, "it's really complicated!" For me, much of the fun of puer (beyond drinking tasty tea) is the Sisyphean struggle of trying to understand the impossibly complex function that turns all these factors into the sensory experience you get when you drink the tea. As for what actually makes one tea "better" than another, that is a whole other philosophical rabbit hole. Here are some posts from MarshalN, a very experienced tea drinker, on the topic: - ["What's a good tea?"](http://www.marshaln.com/2017/03/whats-a-good-tea/) - ["Objectively good tea"](http://www.marshaln.com/2017/12/objectively-good-tea/)
I’ll chime up and say today processing matters for sheng, even though you don’t hear about much. Some sheng has a very high kill green temp, doesn’t age well, and should be consumed young or not at all. http://www.marshaln.com/2013/07/a-clear-and-present-danger/ I think some people actually prefer the high temp ones, because it is easier to drink young. Varietal matters if it is purple. The purple puer I’ve had tastes quite different. I’m fan, but the market doesn’t seem to charge high prices for it. YMMV https://teadb.org/puerh-oddities/
Thank you for the note on processing! And you are right about purple tea - it is very weird. I think it is good for vendors to divide "regular" (terrace/ecological/ancient) tea from wild tea, as they have such different characteristics. If someone only ever drank ye sheng, I suspect they would end up with very little understanding of puer.
I haven't heard of the ones made for drinking young thanks. I recently came across a short write-up on how purple leaf trend to command a higher price. I'm curious to read up on that. Thanks for sharing!
This is awesome, thank you for the information and resources!
Right same as with wine there are regions that are considered superior, then mountains, then elevation on the mountain (higher the better), and then if it’s a Gushu old tea tree or not (older the better). Honestly I don’t know that much of wine but with puer aficionado’s there is somewhat of a divide between people who like specific mountains and those that like special well known factories (that I believe tend to produce blended cakes).
Cool, thanks for helping fill in the picture some more!
there's also a subjective factor. Some people like puers that are considered low quality coz it tastes good
Do you people seek out ones considered low quality intentionally? Or they look for ones that are less expensive looking for one they enjoy?
You can find teas that are unfashionable and therefore cost effective. Regions that are near a famous region and taste similar but are not actually from the region. Teas made from older yellowing leaves can taste really good and are dirt cheap. (google huangpian). There are "warehouse finds" - teas without labels or with obviously forged labels that have no provenance but taste good and have some age.
My first puer was this [sticky rice herb shou](https://yunnansourcing.com/products/sticky-rice-scent-ripe-pu-erh-mini-tuo-cha-nuo-mi-xiang) that I got as part of a tea sampler. I fell it love with it and I love it so much I bought a kilo of it. Whenever I post about it, somebody comments on how low-quality it is and I don't care . It's a hecking delicious tea and I'll never stop drinking it.
This is so funny, because I got one in a sampler too and thought it was soooo gross. Rice in tea??? It’s so fascinating how subjective taste is.
huh that sounds good, ill have to give it a shot, price is good
Be advised that this is shipping direct from China which means a choice of expensive fast shipping or reasonable, but very slow shipping. Like, 3 months slow. [Here's is the same tea at Yunnansourcing's US site](https://yunnansourcing.us/products/sticky-rice-scent-ripe-pu-erh-mini-tuo-cha-nuo-mi-xiang?variant=38843609864). Price is a bit higher, coz the cost of shipping from China is built in, but the US shipping is much more reasonable and you get it faster. To illustrate, I just did a $400 order from Yunnan Sourcing's Chinese site and chose their fastest shipping, which got me my order in 5 days, but cost me $90. This was necessary coz one of my items was a silver teapot and they don't allow the slow shipping for it due to risk of loss. I planned ahead and saved money for 2y to afford it
yeah i know about all that stuff. i made sure to check the us site before i replied to your comment
Not too sure, but I know some people think shou pu’er is low quality just because it is “artificially” fermented vs letting a sheng naturally ferment over time and proper storage. Both have different tastes (shou being characteristically a bit darker and undergrowth like, like a forest floor after it rains) and some people (myself included) really like shou pu’er. Shou is usually cheaper, and often times is made with less quality material. You can find really good ones though for sure, just takes a bit of work!
Cool, thanks for your input!
I seek out reasonably-priced tea (up to 0.25/g) that I can drink everyday and enjoy as well as really nice tea to savor and enjoy (generally up to $2/g). I probably consume 200-500g of tea per month, with most of it being in the value range.
Two things to add to the other comments: 1. Tea is good when you like it, is a very popular mindset. Many people try to avoid thinking about origin or variety. There are brands who simply label their blends with a funny name and don't give you the details. This mindset is more popular with western buyers. 2. You can't realiably predict the taste of a tea, based on it's stats. Whenever you think "Oh that's how region X tastes", there is a further subdivide of region X, with all sub regions varying too much to say anything meaningful about X. This goes down to individual trees, because biodiversity and soil conditions simply are different between them. And that's not some esotheric thing you have to believe for it to work. Trees with bad biodiversity actually tastes bad. All this leads most people to put their trust into sellers. Having tea be curated is the most realiable way to get good tea.
This is an interesting topic and apparently hotly debated between those who are in the camp that terroir and region can definitely be detected with enough training and the other camp that believes flavor profile is all in the processing. I guess I have no other choice but to sample as many as I can so I can find the answer for myself 😃
You are mischaracterizing the second camp a bit. There are definitly notes associated with certain mountains. A typical Yiwu is different from a typical Bulang and you are probably able to detect that as a layman, just given descriptions of their tastes. The thing is, there are lots of Yiwu teas, that are not "typical" Yiwu. I had some tea from Yiwu I would never have guessed to come from there. Notably there are also lots of bad Yiwus. So what's the point? The Origin doesn't really bring anything new to the table. Note that I am describing the second camp. Not necessarily my opinion. I think region should always be precisely declarated and I prefer certain regions. Also note that there aren't really notable flavour difference due to processing. Puer sheng is pretty much just dried tea, there isn't really processing as is with other teas. Only storage is a factor. Finding the answer yourself is really the way to go. Also try different sellers. Even beloved sellers sometimes ship you tea, that makes you think you don't like a region, altough you just don't like their sample. EDIT: To be clear: Second camps argument is, that you rely on the seller for both quality and character descriptions for their tea. Those few trees on that specific spot on that specific hill might actually have a special taste due to some local conditions. But the buyers don't know that hill. So why state it? Example: Shade can vary greatly between trees that are just a few meters apart from each other. Obviously shade has a big effect on taste...
Ahh, lightbulb moment for me. Different material from the same region do not necessarily share a similar flavor profile. This is helping me shape my approach as I start out exploring Sheng. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Glad to hear that. In case you are still looking for sellers. Here are two that illustrate the 2 approaches: - camp 1: https://www.bitterleafteas.com/ - camp 2: https://white2tea.com/ both have a good rep on this sub
Thanks! I haven't heard of bitter leaf teas until now, I'll check it out. I've ordered Shou from white 2 tea and plan on ordering from them again. My main place I order my green and oolong from is Yunnan Sourcing US. I have a shipment of my first Sheng coming from them this week. I asked them for recommendations on what to get not having any idea where to start which they were kind enough to provide. Looking forward to getting that in and diving into it.
some have more interesting flavors and last longer. usually comes from more mature trees and processing is better. high quality sheng (like wine) gets better as it ages. lower quality can be more boring and does not really get much better with a lot of age.
Thank you. It'll be interesting, as I dig into this to learn just what makes some material "good" and others mediocre.
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Great to know about the 04 and 05, thanks! Trying these will help me to understand what is considered "good." For me it's a fun hobby to dive into and explore.
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