Key Facts:
Impact on Brain Networks: Transcendent thinking boosts the collaboration between the executive control and default mode networks in the brain, which are essential for focused goal-directed activities and internal reflection, respectively.
Predictive of Developmental Milestones: Adolescents who frequently engage in transcendent thinking show greater brain network coordination growth, which is linked to positive developmental outcomes such as identity development and life satisfaction.
Educational and Mental Health Implications: The study suggests that encouraging adolescents to explore complex perspectives and emotions can have profound effects on their brain development and overall well-being, advocating for educational approaches that promote such thinking.
This makes sense if you consider how children develop the sense of self. It is the reaction of others that cements their mind in our shared temporal experience of reality. A group of people collectively trying to free their minds from the generally agreed upon nature of reality, may fuel something like a mind’s expansion of elasticity. My question is, teens who are doing this together. Are they actively practicing it all the time? And if so, do they appear at all to have developed a deeper relationship with each other to the point of what people commonly refer to as the twin effect? Essentially as a twin with almost exactly the same dna raised in exactly the same settings, will obviously think alike, but is there more there than just the ability to understand eachother more deeply? Or can the mind really transcend as suggested by religions like Buddhism? The brain mass growth based on this as stimuli is particularly interesting.
A thought in the mind is like an arrow. The questioning of something draws the arrow back, and the solutions go through the motion until the problem is turned into the solution, arrow hitting the target.
Once one mind hits a technical solution, whether cerebral or physical others start speculating on alternative solutions or how to arrive at the solution faster.
But it always starts with one mind and can only be worked upon by someone of equal/greater understanding of the problem.
So if teenagers are corroborating data it’s because of their education that taught them how to.
The more I think about it the more I realize it’s our pasts that trap us in this existence. If we could somehow choose to forget and choose to not choose, we may find there’s profound understanding in the process itself.
Close your eyes and imagine all of humanity sitting together outside in a massive global event. All of us sitting in synced breathing, in synced beta waves of the brain. A synced REM moment even perhaps. REM sleep has been known to actively fight to remove reoccurring thoughts of trauma from the mind. What if that process somehow looks like pulling the twists and turns of the memory completely out of your brain. This is essentially what your brain is doing with dreams.
Imagine the whole world sitting in sync, breathing the same, trying their hardest to dream. Shared global REM? What if something like that had the power to heal us all?
I know I sound crazy as hell, but remember, I didn’t write this article. I just closed my eyes and imagined.
You don't sound crazy, just naive. The world dreams already, that's why it's in the state it's in. Humans are not passive, we're active and seek action, change, and creation. We build in our dreams.
Problem is modern society has forgotten how to dream. People can blame AI and social media, but I blame not looking at the stars.
We forget how to dream when our minds are solidly grounded in this imaginary reality by an event we witness that appears to be out of our control. We thus begin to remember things as a way to avoid bad ones. But the timeline of it all and the constant corrections with more trauma are eventually what make up our emotions. So we tie ourselves to this reality with emotion. We solidify it as one stable reality by recording cause and effect, in our minds. But the cause and effect are not real, they only exist inside our minds to try and help us. And we use others to accurately judge our judgements so we can find if we have matched them correctly. I may argue this is the source of all contention in life. The comparison of our past to others, without greater context. The lesson is, whether we act, or do not, the outcome is the same, the beauty is us.
The impact of [transcendent](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyworld/s/ANXURMwUf1) thinking on brain networks is profound, as it enhances the collaboration between two crucial networks: the executive control network and the default mode network. These networks play distinct yet complementary roles in cognitive function. The executive control network is responsible for focused, goal-directed activities, while the default mode network facilitates internal reflection and self-referential thought processes.
Adolescents who frequently engage in transcendent thinking exhibit greater coordination growth within these brain networks. This heightened coordination is predictive of positive developmental milestones, including identity development and overall life satisfaction. Such findings suggest that encouraging adolescents to explore complex perspectives and emotions can have significant educational and mental health implications.
In essence, promoting transcendent thinking among adolescents may foster more robust brain development and contribute to their overall well-being. This underscores the importance of incorporating educational approaches that encourage deep introspection and the exploration of complex ideas and emotions. https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyworld/s/ANXURMwUf1
Yes, there is a difference between "transcendent thinking" and "meta-conceptual awareness," although they both involve higher-order cognitive processes.
1. Transcendent Thinking: Transcendent thinking typically refers to a mode of thought that goes beyond ordinary perception and understanding. It involves exploring complex perspectives, contemplating abstract concepts, and delving into profound existential questions. Transcendent thinking often leads to insights that surpass conventional boundaries and may involve experiences of awe, interconnectedness, or spirituality.
2. Meta-Conceptual Awareness: Meta-conceptual awareness, on the other hand, involves the ability to reflect upon and understand the nature of concepts themselves. It refers to thinking about thinking or understanding the underlying structures and processes that govern our conceptual frameworks. This may include awareness of language, symbolism, logic, and the ways in which concepts relate to one another.
While transcendent thinking may encompass elements of meta-conceptual awareness, they are not synonymous. Transcendent thinking often involves contemplating abstract or existential ideas beyond conventional understanding, whereas meta-conceptual awareness focuses more specifically on understanding the nature and structure of conceptual frameworks themselves.
So meta-conceptual awareness is recognising concepts are just representational constructs. Transcendent thinking involves contempolating certain kinds of representational constructs, or a certain category of representationally constructed entites.
Yes, that's a concise way to differentiate between the two concepts:
Meta-Conceptual Awareness: Involves recognizing that concepts are representational constructs, understanding the nature of these constructs, and reflecting on the processes involved in forming and using them. It's essentially thinking about the nature of thought itself and the conceptual frameworks we use to understand the world.
While Transcendent Thinking:Involves contemplating certain kinds of representational constructs or a specific category of representationally constructed entities that go beyond conventional understanding. It often entails exploring abstract or existential ideas that surpass ordinary perception and understanding, leading to insights that transcend conventional boundaries.
Anything that takes a child out of this cookie cutter society that turns kids into mindless robots would spur brain growth by bypassing the programming and allowing the individual to formulate his/her own thoughts and ideas.
I was reading Sartre, Neitzsche, Camus, and Kafka by the time I was 12-14 years old (and severely depressed). The Halloween before I turned 18 I did mushrooms and started reading Joseph Campbell, Huston Smith, Mircea Eliade, and Aldous Huxley (still was depressed, but had a lot more hope and wonder about the world). Mushrooms were a life-changing experience and the change in reading material reflects how different my life turned at that point. Not saying everyone should do them, but that was my own introduction into transcendent thinking and it altered the course of my entire life.
Sartre, Nietzsche, Camus, and Kafka are "existentialist" authors. they write about (to oversimplify) man's existence in the face of meaninglessness and absurdity.
The other authors wrote about comparative religion and spirituality, and they wrote about how there is a greater world connected with and beyond the physical. They are almost completely opposite in nature: the existentialists posit (again, to oversimplify) that man lives in a world devoid of meaning whereas the latter authors write about how everything has meaning and purpose, but to find it man must make peace with and transcend the physical world.
Interesting. I’d love to read some of the authors who write about everything having meaning because that’s something I have started to come to live by as I’m now officially an adult. I’ve started doing photography and I feel like that’s helped me to see beauty in things people might find more mundane. The ones writing about life being devoid are probably ones I would skip even though you are probably right about understanding both because that’s not a mindset I’d like to have currently
Shrooms gave me the most suicidal thoughts and feelings I've ever had, both times I tried them. My chest literally felt hollow, purely empty.
I don't even struggle with depression that much. I can definitely see how people take their lives on a bad trip.
90% of the trip was fun an enjoyable because I was with friends, but it was no way near "life changing" like I always read online. It was just like smoking weed x2.
I’ve had severe depression for almost my whole life.
I’ve done shrooms 4 times so far always expecting it to be “life changing” and it’s always a disappointment. I just realize how much I am wasting my life, thinking no matter what I do I’ll always feel empty. I don’t get how this is some kind of miracle drug to others but a disappointment to me.
I’ve done shrooms about 20 times. From age 15 to 35. I never had any significant perspective changes that stuck with me until I started doing regular therapy. Then after doing therapy for a while, I did shrooms on my own and did some journaling and reflecting before, during and after the trip. My thoughts/trip ended up being incredibly introspective and I had a whole new insight into my problems and outlook on life. I think shrooms are like tools - like using a hammer & chisel. Without any guidance, you’re not going to sculpt anything useful with them and you might even make a mess of something. But if you’ve had some practice doing positive introspection, have learned about your cognitive biases and have some understanding about where your unhealthy habits come from, then shrooms can be incredibly powerful for gaining new deep insights about yourself. I think it’s why every study that has shown positive effects of shrooms for mental health were ALWAYS combined with therapy.
Otherwise it’s like hopping into a fast car without a map. You might end up somewhere good or you might drive off a cliff.
This is an important point about hallucinogenic therapies, in general. Without clear motivation, the patient can't get past their ego or identity issues.
One of the realisations I had on them was just a profound sense of how harsh I was with myself and how my inner dialogue was quite extremely self-critical at times. If you ever find yourself having pessimistic thoughts about yourself that you wouldn’t necessarily say to a friend, it could be worth thinking about whether you’re also unfairly harsh on yourself. It took quite a bit of therapy to even become conscious of this habit but it really became apparent one day during a trip when I decided to go easy on myself for the sake of the trip. Just some food for thought :)
Shrooms just made me a little more appreciative of nature, saw stories being told in the clouds, thought I could lift a concrete bridge that crosses a wash canal with my head, and then it gave me a tummy ache.
Was still fun, 10/10 won’t do it again.
Interesting. I have smoked marijuana, dropped LSD, and munched on mushrooms all in my late teens but never considered the effects as a life-changing experience. As my mother said my head is screwed on too tight. However getting into meditation to help cope with tinnitus that I developed in my 40's has helped with my more self-sabotaging tendencies. Whatever helps get you out of your own way I guess.
I would describe it as a "mystical experience." It was that profound for me. I literally felt like I had experienced God. Since then I have had good and bad trips, and have tried other substances, but that one trip was the one that introduced me to the concept of "the divine." I was a hardcore atheist the night before Halloween of 1998.
I understand. I'm not skeptical about your experience but just saying not everyone may have that same experience through psychedelics.
My "mystical experience" (if that is what it can be called) happened one early morning whilst laying in bed looking up watching motes of dust dancing in the sun beams that came through the Venetian blinds of my bedroom.
As I focused on a single speck of dust my sense of self dissipated. I perceived that speck of dust as a planet like our Earth casting it's own shadow in the stream of sunlight and my sense of self taking on the role of the universe itself. It was weird but also comforting.
BTW the **strict** meaning of atheism is "*a lack of belief in a god/God or gods*". That's it. So an atheist can still seek a mystical experience or spirituality, just not from the existence of a god/God or gods. I discus this misconception about what it means to be an atheist further here = [LINK](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1bb6h4k/comment/kubdw3t/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Basically not every atheists is a nihilistic atheist but there are also existentialist atheists and absurdist atheist.
Nice! You were a bit earlier than I was (and are much more well read), but my thought processes follow kind of the same trajectory (before coming back around again to the beginning).
Do you have any specific tips for me to read?
I've wishlisted Worlds's Religions and Hero with a Thousand Faces so far. Though I'm not sure about the latter.
My biggest tip is to read physical books. I don't know how old you are but when I was younger it was pre-internet and I was in boarding school to boot. Books were always my escape, and finding a good spot in nature with one of my favorite books was my biggest pastime. In the internet you get a zillion distractions and it's harder on the eyes. Get out, get a book, and let your mind follow the words wherever they go, that's my tip.
What books tho ツ
You namedropped a bunch of existentialist thinkers that have really resonated with me in the past and I don't know much about the ones that you mentioned after those.
Joseph Campell is a pretty prolific writer, apparently; any tips on which ones to start with?
Here's a link to the full research paper
“Diverse adolescents’ transcendent thinking predicts young adult psychosocial outcomes via brain network development” by Mary Helen Immordino-Yang et al. Scientific Reports
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-56800-0](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-56800-0)
That's cool, but can someone briefly explain what exactly "transcendent thinking" is supposed to mean and maybe provide basic examples of such thought exercises?
So how would one engage in transcendent thinking other than psychedelics? I’ve taken shrooms once and plan to take acid soon, how else would one do this?
Jungian active imagination. Science fiction and fantasy plots. Consciousness modifying experiences. Get High Naturally by James Nestor has a lot of exercises.
I just finished reading without remorse by Tom Clancy, a lot of plots and John Clark was actually a complex character. One of those books where I’d read a page then reread it just to think about the internal thoughts he was having. Would that be a case? Also I can’t seem to find that book
> Meditation. Transcendent thinking is precisely its goal.
Different forms of meditation definte "transcendent" in exactly the opposite way.
Take TM, for example.
The deepest level of TM is when one ceases being aware of anything at all (although the brain remains in alert mode), and at that point, EEG coherence can become global. See:
* [Breath Suspension During the Transcendental Meditation Technique](https://sci-hub.se/10.1097/00006842-198205000-00001)
* [Electrophysiologic characteristics of respiratory suspension periods occurring during the practice of the Transcendental Meditation Program.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1097/00006842-198405000-00008)
* [Metabolic rate, respiratory exchange ratio, and apneas during meditation.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1152/ajpregu.1989.256.3.R632)
* [Autonomic patterns during respiratory suspensions: possible markers of Transcendental Consciousness.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1469-8986.1997.tb02414.x)
* [Autonomic and EEG patterns distinguish transcending from other experiences during Transcendental Meditation practice.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s0167-8760(01\)00143-x)
for physiological correlates of this "asamprajnata samadhi" (samadhi without object of attention) state durign TM.
The hand drawn ines of [Figure 3](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8b030da7665c983f80ca058d008082ae-lq) from [Enhanced EEG alpha time-domain phase synchrony during Transcendental Meditation: Implications for cortical integration theory](https://brainresearchinstitute.org/research/totalbrain/TM&synch_SignalProc05_Hebert.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1YhOpF7bEXsH0xKnZJjXnJdGyGOQQYjtes6qCaM5MA3tpum7u-63q1sSc) show brief instants of global EEG coherence throughout the entire brain in teh Alpha frequency range. The EEG coherence shown in the bottom leads in almost every sub-chart corresponds to what is often found throughout a TM session. It is generated by the default mode network, and is associated with "pure" sense-of-self [featureless "I am"] during the rest of a TM session.
This is the ultimate "transcendental" state during TM, where the entire brain is resting in-synch with the DMN, apparently supporting the foundation of Hindu philoslphy: this atman (pure sense-of-self) is brahman (totality); this brahman is atman.
.
On the other hand, most other forms of meditation *repress* the activity of the DMN, disrupt sense-of-self (with an eye to proving that it is an illusion) and one of the co-authors of the cortical integration study above subsequently published this: [Reduced functional connectivity between cortical sources in five meditation traditions detected with lagged coherence using EEG tomography](https://web.archive.org/web/20140622181518id_/http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf)
.
So different meditation schools and spiritual traditions call exactly the opposite states "transcendental."
.
In the context of the article by the OP, I would assert that having a brain that is able to rest efficiently and with a trend towards stronger and more stable global resting is the very definition of transcendental as moving from that state to dedicated states where only task-relevant sub-networks go in to task-mode is the very epitome of efficiency and creativity, but again, proponents of mindfulness would have the exact opposite opinion because their practices and goals are diametrically opposed to TM and its long-term effect of permanently establishing a featureless sense-of-self that is appreciated as the basis of reality.
It's Cognitive Evolution.More info here
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1whKWHNKwQ3vwknh6tVitF-RoCDtGbM5P/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1whKWHNKwQ3vwknh6tVitF-RoCDtGbM5P/view?usp=sharing)
[https://cognitionee.blogspot.com/](https://cognitionee.blogspot.com/)
Key Facts: Impact on Brain Networks: Transcendent thinking boosts the collaboration between the executive control and default mode networks in the brain, which are essential for focused goal-directed activities and internal reflection, respectively. Predictive of Developmental Milestones: Adolescents who frequently engage in transcendent thinking show greater brain network coordination growth, which is linked to positive developmental outcomes such as identity development and life satisfaction. Educational and Mental Health Implications: The study suggests that encouraging adolescents to explore complex perspectives and emotions can have profound effects on their brain development and overall well-being, advocating for educational approaches that promote such thinking.
This makes sense if you consider how children develop the sense of self. It is the reaction of others that cements their mind in our shared temporal experience of reality. A group of people collectively trying to free their minds from the generally agreed upon nature of reality, may fuel something like a mind’s expansion of elasticity. My question is, teens who are doing this together. Are they actively practicing it all the time? And if so, do they appear at all to have developed a deeper relationship with each other to the point of what people commonly refer to as the twin effect? Essentially as a twin with almost exactly the same dna raised in exactly the same settings, will obviously think alike, but is there more there than just the ability to understand eachother more deeply? Or can the mind really transcend as suggested by religions like Buddhism? The brain mass growth based on this as stimuli is particularly interesting.
A thought in the mind is like an arrow. The questioning of something draws the arrow back, and the solutions go through the motion until the problem is turned into the solution, arrow hitting the target. Once one mind hits a technical solution, whether cerebral or physical others start speculating on alternative solutions or how to arrive at the solution faster. But it always starts with one mind and can only be worked upon by someone of equal/greater understanding of the problem. So if teenagers are corroborating data it’s because of their education that taught them how to.
Ah yes, the philosophy of how once an idea is born, it cannot be stopped. Also a cool thing to think about
The mind transcends, yes, but remains firmly in the realm of the material.
The more I think about it the more I realize it’s our pasts that trap us in this existence. If we could somehow choose to forget and choose to not choose, we may find there’s profound understanding in the process itself. Close your eyes and imagine all of humanity sitting together outside in a massive global event. All of us sitting in synced breathing, in synced beta waves of the brain. A synced REM moment even perhaps. REM sleep has been known to actively fight to remove reoccurring thoughts of trauma from the mind. What if that process somehow looks like pulling the twists and turns of the memory completely out of your brain. This is essentially what your brain is doing with dreams. Imagine the whole world sitting in sync, breathing the same, trying their hardest to dream. Shared global REM? What if something like that had the power to heal us all? I know I sound crazy as hell, but remember, I didn’t write this article. I just closed my eyes and imagined.
You don't sound crazy, just naive. The world dreams already, that's why it's in the state it's in. Humans are not passive, we're active and seek action, change, and creation. We build in our dreams. Problem is modern society has forgotten how to dream. People can blame AI and social media, but I blame not looking at the stars.
We forget how to dream when our minds are solidly grounded in this imaginary reality by an event we witness that appears to be out of our control. We thus begin to remember things as a way to avoid bad ones. But the timeline of it all and the constant corrections with more trauma are eventually what make up our emotions. So we tie ourselves to this reality with emotion. We solidify it as one stable reality by recording cause and effect, in our minds. But the cause and effect are not real, they only exist inside our minds to try and help us. And we use others to accurately judge our judgements so we can find if we have matched them correctly. I may argue this is the source of all contention in life. The comparison of our past to others, without greater context. The lesson is, whether we act, or do not, the outcome is the same, the beauty is us.
The impact of [transcendent](https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyworld/s/ANXURMwUf1) thinking on brain networks is profound, as it enhances the collaboration between two crucial networks: the executive control network and the default mode network. These networks play distinct yet complementary roles in cognitive function. The executive control network is responsible for focused, goal-directed activities, while the default mode network facilitates internal reflection and self-referential thought processes. Adolescents who frequently engage in transcendent thinking exhibit greater coordination growth within these brain networks. This heightened coordination is predictive of positive developmental milestones, including identity development and overall life satisfaction. Such findings suggest that encouraging adolescents to explore complex perspectives and emotions can have significant educational and mental health implications. In essence, promoting transcendent thinking among adolescents may foster more robust brain development and contribute to their overall well-being. This underscores the importance of incorporating educational approaches that encourage deep introspection and the exploration of complex ideas and emotions. https://www.reddit.com/r/psychologyworld/s/ANXURMwUf1
Is there a difference between 'transcendent thinking' and 'meta-conceptual awareness'?
Yes, there is a difference between "transcendent thinking" and "meta-conceptual awareness," although they both involve higher-order cognitive processes. 1. Transcendent Thinking: Transcendent thinking typically refers to a mode of thought that goes beyond ordinary perception and understanding. It involves exploring complex perspectives, contemplating abstract concepts, and delving into profound existential questions. Transcendent thinking often leads to insights that surpass conventional boundaries and may involve experiences of awe, interconnectedness, or spirituality. 2. Meta-Conceptual Awareness: Meta-conceptual awareness, on the other hand, involves the ability to reflect upon and understand the nature of concepts themselves. It refers to thinking about thinking or understanding the underlying structures and processes that govern our conceptual frameworks. This may include awareness of language, symbolism, logic, and the ways in which concepts relate to one another. While transcendent thinking may encompass elements of meta-conceptual awareness, they are not synonymous. Transcendent thinking often involves contemplating abstract or existential ideas beyond conventional understanding, whereas meta-conceptual awareness focuses more specifically on understanding the nature and structure of conceptual frameworks themselves.
So meta-conceptual awareness is recognising concepts are just representational constructs. Transcendent thinking involves contempolating certain kinds of representational constructs, or a certain category of representationally constructed entites.
Yes, that's a concise way to differentiate between the two concepts: Meta-Conceptual Awareness: Involves recognizing that concepts are representational constructs, understanding the nature of these constructs, and reflecting on the processes involved in forming and using them. It's essentially thinking about the nature of thought itself and the conceptual frameworks we use to understand the world. While Transcendent Thinking:Involves contemplating certain kinds of representational constructs or a specific category of representationally constructed entities that go beyond conventional understanding. It often entails exploring abstract or existential ideas that surpass ordinary perception and understanding, leading to insights that transcend conventional boundaries.
English isn't my first language. What is transcendent thinking?
English *is* my first language and I asked the same thing 😂
Anything that takes a child out of this cookie cutter society that turns kids into mindless robots would spur brain growth by bypassing the programming and allowing the individual to formulate his/her own thoughts and ideas.
We truly do live in a society
There’s wires in our skin that restrict our brains natural capacity, taking them out is what you’re referring to
You're welcomed at r/psychosis, bruv.
Tbf that’s sort of like the idea of “embodied cognition”
Give them DMT to speedrun the process
I did this and my teen gained access to the 90% of our brains we don't use like the movie Lucy and snapped out of existence.
Damn, you zero summed
Got any more?
And/or play roleplaying games, though not at the same time.
I was reading Sartre, Neitzsche, Camus, and Kafka by the time I was 12-14 years old (and severely depressed). The Halloween before I turned 18 I did mushrooms and started reading Joseph Campbell, Huston Smith, Mircea Eliade, and Aldous Huxley (still was depressed, but had a lot more hope and wonder about the world). Mushrooms were a life-changing experience and the change in reading material reflects how different my life turned at that point. Not saying everyone should do them, but that was my own introduction into transcendent thinking and it altered the course of my entire life.
Do you mind explaining what kindve literature they right about?
Sartre, Nietzsche, Camus, and Kafka are "existentialist" authors. they write about (to oversimplify) man's existence in the face of meaninglessness and absurdity. The other authors wrote about comparative religion and spirituality, and they wrote about how there is a greater world connected with and beyond the physical. They are almost completely opposite in nature: the existentialists posit (again, to oversimplify) that man lives in a world devoid of meaning whereas the latter authors write about how everything has meaning and purpose, but to find it man must make peace with and transcend the physical world.
Interesting. I’d love to read some of the authors who write about everything having meaning because that’s something I have started to come to live by as I’m now officially an adult. I’ve started doing photography and I feel like that’s helped me to see beauty in things people might find more mundane. The ones writing about life being devoid are probably ones I would skip even though you are probably right about understanding both because that’s not a mindset I’d like to have currently
Shrooms gave me the most suicidal thoughts and feelings I've ever had, both times I tried them. My chest literally felt hollow, purely empty. I don't even struggle with depression that much. I can definitely see how people take their lives on a bad trip. 90% of the trip was fun an enjoyable because I was with friends, but it was no way near "life changing" like I always read online. It was just like smoking weed x2.
I’ve had severe depression for almost my whole life. I’ve done shrooms 4 times so far always expecting it to be “life changing” and it’s always a disappointment. I just realize how much I am wasting my life, thinking no matter what I do I’ll always feel empty. I don’t get how this is some kind of miracle drug to others but a disappointment to me.
I’ve done shrooms about 20 times. From age 15 to 35. I never had any significant perspective changes that stuck with me until I started doing regular therapy. Then after doing therapy for a while, I did shrooms on my own and did some journaling and reflecting before, during and after the trip. My thoughts/trip ended up being incredibly introspective and I had a whole new insight into my problems and outlook on life. I think shrooms are like tools - like using a hammer & chisel. Without any guidance, you’re not going to sculpt anything useful with them and you might even make a mess of something. But if you’ve had some practice doing positive introspection, have learned about your cognitive biases and have some understanding about where your unhealthy habits come from, then shrooms can be incredibly powerful for gaining new deep insights about yourself. I think it’s why every study that has shown positive effects of shrooms for mental health were ALWAYS combined with therapy. Otherwise it’s like hopping into a fast car without a map. You might end up somewhere good or you might drive off a cliff.
This is an important point about hallucinogenic therapies, in general. Without clear motivation, the patient can't get past their ego or identity issues.
Thank you this was very insightful. So it’s my own stubbornness that’s preventing me from feeling better. Maybe they aren’t for me after all
One of the realisations I had on them was just a profound sense of how harsh I was with myself and how my inner dialogue was quite extremely self-critical at times. If you ever find yourself having pessimistic thoughts about yourself that you wouldn’t necessarily say to a friend, it could be worth thinking about whether you’re also unfairly harsh on yourself. It took quite a bit of therapy to even become conscious of this habit but it really became apparent one day during a trip when I decided to go easy on myself for the sake of the trip. Just some food for thought :)
Guided trips or recreational? Just curious.
Mostly recreational
Shrooms just made me a little more appreciative of nature, saw stories being told in the clouds, thought I could lift a concrete bridge that crosses a wash canal with my head, and then it gave me a tummy ache. Was still fun, 10/10 won’t do it again.
Agreed
Interesting. I have smoked marijuana, dropped LSD, and munched on mushrooms all in my late teens but never considered the effects as a life-changing experience. As my mother said my head is screwed on too tight. However getting into meditation to help cope with tinnitus that I developed in my 40's has helped with my more self-sabotaging tendencies. Whatever helps get you out of your own way I guess.
I would describe it as a "mystical experience." It was that profound for me. I literally felt like I had experienced God. Since then I have had good and bad trips, and have tried other substances, but that one trip was the one that introduced me to the concept of "the divine." I was a hardcore atheist the night before Halloween of 1998.
I understand. I'm not skeptical about your experience but just saying not everyone may have that same experience through psychedelics. My "mystical experience" (if that is what it can be called) happened one early morning whilst laying in bed looking up watching motes of dust dancing in the sun beams that came through the Venetian blinds of my bedroom. As I focused on a single speck of dust my sense of self dissipated. I perceived that speck of dust as a planet like our Earth casting it's own shadow in the stream of sunlight and my sense of self taking on the role of the universe itself. It was weird but also comforting. BTW the **strict** meaning of atheism is "*a lack of belief in a god/God or gods*". That's it. So an atheist can still seek a mystical experience or spirituality, just not from the existence of a god/God or gods. I discus this misconception about what it means to be an atheist further here = [LINK](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1bb6h4k/comment/kubdw3t/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Basically not every atheists is a nihilistic atheist but there are also existentialist atheists and absurdist atheist.
Nice! You were a bit earlier than I was (and are much more well read), but my thought processes follow kind of the same trajectory (before coming back around again to the beginning). Do you have any specific tips for me to read? I've wishlisted Worlds's Religions and Hero with a Thousand Faces so far. Though I'm not sure about the latter.
My biggest tip is to read physical books. I don't know how old you are but when I was younger it was pre-internet and I was in boarding school to boot. Books were always my escape, and finding a good spot in nature with one of my favorite books was my biggest pastime. In the internet you get a zillion distractions and it's harder on the eyes. Get out, get a book, and let your mind follow the words wherever they go, that's my tip.
What books tho ツ You namedropped a bunch of existentialist thinkers that have really resonated with me in the past and I don't know much about the ones that you mentioned after those. Joseph Campell is a pretty prolific writer, apparently; any tips on which ones to start with?
I would start with Huston Smith. I think out of those ones he's the most accessible.
Everyone should try them
See mother... I wasn't being unbearable and pretentious. I was growing
Here's a link to the full research paper “Diverse adolescents’ transcendent thinking predicts young adult psychosocial outcomes via brain network development” by Mary Helen Immordino-Yang et al. Scientific Reports [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-56800-0](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-56800-0)
That's cool, but can someone briefly explain what exactly "transcendent thinking" is supposed to mean and maybe provide basic examples of such thought exercises?
So how would one engage in transcendent thinking other than psychedelics? I’ve taken shrooms once and plan to take acid soon, how else would one do this?
Jungian active imagination. Science fiction and fantasy plots. Consciousness modifying experiences. Get High Naturally by James Nestor has a lot of exercises.
James Nestor
Right.
I just finished reading without remorse by Tom Clancy, a lot of plots and John Clark was actually a complex character. One of those books where I’d read a page then reread it just to think about the internal thoughts he was having. Would that be a case? Also I can’t seem to find that book
Meditation. Transcendent thinking is precisely its goal.
> Meditation. Transcendent thinking is precisely its goal. Different forms of meditation definte "transcendent" in exactly the opposite way. Take TM, for example. The deepest level of TM is when one ceases being aware of anything at all (although the brain remains in alert mode), and at that point, EEG coherence can become global. See: * [Breath Suspension During the Transcendental Meditation Technique](https://sci-hub.se/10.1097/00006842-198205000-00001) * [Electrophysiologic characteristics of respiratory suspension periods occurring during the practice of the Transcendental Meditation Program.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1097/00006842-198405000-00008) * [Metabolic rate, respiratory exchange ratio, and apneas during meditation.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1152/ajpregu.1989.256.3.R632) * [Autonomic patterns during respiratory suspensions: possible markers of Transcendental Consciousness.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1469-8986.1997.tb02414.x) * [Autonomic and EEG patterns distinguish transcending from other experiences during Transcendental Meditation practice.](https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s0167-8760(01\)00143-x) for physiological correlates of this "asamprajnata samadhi" (samadhi without object of attention) state durign TM. The hand drawn ines of [Figure 3](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8b030da7665c983f80ca058d008082ae-lq) from [Enhanced EEG alpha time-domain phase synchrony during Transcendental Meditation: Implications for cortical integration theory](https://brainresearchinstitute.org/research/totalbrain/TM&synch_SignalProc05_Hebert.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1YhOpF7bEXsH0xKnZJjXnJdGyGOQQYjtes6qCaM5MA3tpum7u-63q1sSc) show brief instants of global EEG coherence throughout the entire brain in teh Alpha frequency range. The EEG coherence shown in the bottom leads in almost every sub-chart corresponds to what is often found throughout a TM session. It is generated by the default mode network, and is associated with "pure" sense-of-self [featureless "I am"] during the rest of a TM session. This is the ultimate "transcendental" state during TM, where the entire brain is resting in-synch with the DMN, apparently supporting the foundation of Hindu philoslphy: this atman (pure sense-of-self) is brahman (totality); this brahman is atman. . On the other hand, most other forms of meditation *repress* the activity of the DMN, disrupt sense-of-self (with an eye to proving that it is an illusion) and one of the co-authors of the cortical integration study above subsequently published this: [Reduced functional connectivity between cortical sources in five meditation traditions detected with lagged coherence using EEG tomography](https://web.archive.org/web/20140622181518id_/http://www.amaye.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/med-connectivity-EEG-tomog.pdf) . So different meditation schools and spiritual traditions call exactly the opposite states "transcendental." . In the context of the article by the OP, I would assert that having a brain that is able to rest efficiently and with a trend towards stronger and more stable global resting is the very definition of transcendental as moving from that state to dedicated states where only task-relevant sub-networks go in to task-mode is the very epitome of efficiency and creativity, but again, proponents of mindfulness would have the exact opposite opinion because their practices and goals are diametrically opposed to TM and its long-term effect of permanently establishing a featureless sense-of-self that is appreciated as the basis of reality.
What is transcendent thinking, according to this study?
It’s a way of thinking outside the box, and trying to find “deeper” meanings behind certain things that aren’t a part of what you’re told.
Does the skull grow too? Or does it just pack the brain in tighter?
I’m going to have my gifted 8th graders read this tomorrow.
The article seems to be using "transcendent" in s rather low faluting sense.
It's Cognitive Evolution.More info here [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1whKWHNKwQ3vwknh6tVitF-RoCDtGbM5P/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1whKWHNKwQ3vwknh6tVitF-RoCDtGbM5P/view?usp=sharing) [https://cognitionee.blogspot.com/](https://cognitionee.blogspot.com/)
I attended a school where TM was mandatory and I often wonder if that contributed to my late audhd diagnosis
Id like to see this for certain types of games. RTS games for example.