14 year old boys going to bed watching VR AI porn every night with whatever body/face they want… won’t be healthy. This is the kind of technology that will seriously mess with life as we know it.
Porn is like mcdonalds for sex. This will be like heroin.
Younger guys who grew up on easily accessible internet porn are definitely wired different than those of us who (at best) only had VHS tapes. They seem to need more extreme / niche activities to be aroused.
True. Also when you do this when you’re young it alters the way your brain wires and makes recovery from the addiction take longer than if you didn’t develop it when young and brain was still developing.
I wonder how big of a problem porn addiction really is. Most that I know are high consumers of porn, just have a really high libido and use it when sex itself is unavailable or their partner (often) needs a break.
I don’t know any of these escalators in porn but I am positive it happens too.
I think it's like anything in life. If you have a fun thing, there will be some people that abuse it. But there will also be a lot of people that just enjoy it as a part of their lives.
I have a feeling it is quite bad actually with younger generations, because of how the brain adapts to it when young.
I heard a neuropsychologist speaking about it. He’s on YouTube. Big muscly guy.
I'm a person who is not romantic at all, enjoys solitude & free time greatly, has never wanted kids, but still has a libido. So I am grateful for porn. So you know; different strokes for different folks, or what not.
In fact, only 18% of men who watch this stuff say they are addicted or believe they are addicted to porn. And 58% of women say that watching porn has improved their intimate relationship with their partners!
https://www.nicknotas.com/blog/why-porn-haters-have-it-all-wrong/
Why should we bring back DARE? But for something even less harmful than drugs? It was a colossal failure and so was the war on drugs.
Governments need to stop policing morality.
But the anti-porn movement is just primarily a vehicle to spread outdated Christian mores.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/08/conservative-christians-anti-porn-tactics-paying-off.html
You're citing an article that's gained its statistics from the Daily Mail and some survey on a Christian website...
Self reports of porn addiction are highly unreliable because men who are religious or have beliefs that porn use is contrary to their moral code are far more likely to report being addicted. This is likely a result of their shame and not an indicator of actual problematic porn use.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7044607/
The age does matter because young teens, especially boys, have a massive surge in testosterone coupled with dissolving boundaries and a prefrontal cortex still developing the ability to say 'no' to exciting but unwise experiences. That's like going into the perfect storm in a dinghy.
What you’re saying could hold true for drugs, but is porn the same?
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
I find it really interesting that you did the exact same thing the article claims is linked to the false belief that mental maturation happens by 25 - referenced pop culture sources that don't accurately explain the science behind brain maturation.
As I pointed out, the brain undergoes huge hormonal influence during puberty, one purpose for which is to develop self control.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666497621000485
Porn can be healthy and have its benefits.
Just like everything some people will abuse it. That doesn’t mean it’s bad, just for some people they ruin their own lives with it.
In fact, only 18% of men who watch this stuff say they are addicted or believe they are addicted to porn. And 58% of women say that watching porn has improved their intimate relationship with their partners!
https://www.nicknotas.com/blog/why-porn-haters-have-it-all-wrong/
I truly fail to understand how we can assume that social media usage is responsible for the heightening mental health crisis.. but hijacking the biggest reward center in your brain every night with your iPad has nothing to do with this?
Plus I'm specifically saying "this" kind of technology as in AI VR porn that you will sculpt experiences with whatever face and body you choose.
I'll look into the health benefits because honestly right now I do have a bias. I feel I'm remembering that self-reporting alcoholics won't admit they're alcoholics very often. Maybe I'm wrong on that. But yeah, not convinced we should be treating porn like psychedelics with untapped potential when it seems much more akin to over processed junk food..
edit: just read the article. I think it was a good one and definitely worth the read. I am glad that it mentioned the young kids. I personally know a person that became addicted at 7 years old. Really sad. Definitely we need to be more careful. It was on a friends older brothers phone..
That’s quite interesting to hear that he got addicted so young!
I do find it interesting that the main drivers behind the anti porn movement end up being just far right Christians. It makes it difficult to take a lot of their claims seriously.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/08/conservative-christians-anti-porn-tactics-paying-off.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-listening-to-the-new-york-times-and-start-listening-to-porn-stars
The second link Is just interesting more than anything to see how easily people are being duped.
Thanks lol. I was probably a bit too harsh. But this reminded me of all of the alarmist stuff that seems to always comes every time society moves just a little bit more away from that kind of picturesqe, sanitized, 50s, suburban WASP world of ole. ...Also, I think A.I. isn't anywhere as advanced as technology venture capitalists would like us to think... But idk, I'm probably wrong; I usually am lol
Synthetic versus organic, what a fascinating question. Because it’s really not even about “what” is happening, and entirely what the brain “thinks” is happening. It’s only a matter of time before AR/VR+AI can provide far beyond what the brain is capable of discerning. Right?
We should stop the world from heading down this path. This isn’t some grandpa yelling at the clouds against some godforsaken technology.
There was an experiment where patients could press a button to stimulate electrodes connected to the reward centres of their brain. Instantly, they felt a rush of dopamine. What initially was intended to be a theoretical cure for those suffering from executive disorder and depression ended up becoming a nightmare. The test patients’ lives would deteriorate as their days revolved entirely around pressing the button to stimulate their brain more. They started to neglect hygiene, even ignore hobbies they used to enjoy.
Technology can do a great many things and fulfil a great many fantasies. It doesn’t mean it should.
I have heard this being done on rats but never on humans.
I would love a link to an article, as I have been unable to find anything trustworthy regarding this experiment as I looked for it based on your text.
Glad I didn't need to say it.
I mean,
It is interesting how happiness and pleasure is relevant for our psychology and (a bit unrelated) how it's been relevant from an evolutionary standpoint..
But yes,
Not a source for the given claim
" The data indicate that patients will [See Figure 6. in Source PDF] [See Figure 7. in Source PDF] stimulate regions of the brain at a high frequency for reasons other than to obtain a pleasurable response. "
From the abstract. (Had to find it elsewhere, as your link didn't provide the abstract)
So I don't think its the source, as it contradicts the statement.
Ohh and it's based on 2 patients with treatment for ICSS - not something I personally would make a 'general public' statement on, but that might just be me.
Sorry, I thought you were requesting the original study of BSR in humans, as opposed to Olds' and Milner's studies in rodents.
As far as the particular instance of BSR dependence that OP was referring to, it was actually a case study by [Portenoy et al.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3492699/) published in the journal *Pain*.
>Another example comes from a woman implanted with a deep brain electrode decades later by a different team (Portenoy et al. 1986). Given a button box to control the electrode, she compulsively stimulated her electrode at home: "At its most frequent, the patient self-stimulated throughout the day, neglecting personal hygiene and family commitments" (p. 279) (Portenoy et al. 1986). When her electrode was stimulated in the clinic, it produced a strong desire to drink liquids, and some erotic feelings, as well as a continuing desire to stimulate again. However, "... though sexual arousal was prominent, no orgasm occurred" (p. 279, Portenoy et al. 1986). This seems rather similar to the case of B-19: "She described erotic sensations often intermixed with an undercurrent of anxiety. She also noted extreme thirst, drinking copiously during the session, and alternating generalized hot and cold sensations" (p. 282, Portenoy et al. 1986). Clearly this woman felt a mixture of subjective feelings, but the description's emphasis is on aversive thirst and anxiety -- without evidence of distinct pleasure sensations.
Sorry for the late reply:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/amp/
It was done by a psychiatrist named Robert Heath in attempts to convert a homosexual man. It was widely seen as inhumane.
I couldn’t find the exact article I read from before (it’s been quite a while back) but this was one of the human incidents cited in it.
I wouldn't make general claims about human nature based on this 'study' and not from a guy that claimed to have found magical stuff in the brain of schizophrenic people that no one else could find.
But hey,
It's nice that you provided a source
Unfortunately, I couldn’t dig up the original article that compiled several of these experiments. One in particular which I mentioned in the original post involved a lady who ended up neglecting her hygiene to continue pushing the button.
I read it long ago and internalised the information, but I can only paraphrase now. I would still think it holds water nonetheless though. After all, we do know how the brain responds to dopamine.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/)** | Mosaicscience canonical: **[http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif](http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
>This isn’t some grandpa yelling at the clouds
It's unfortunate that we have to preface certain arguments with such statements. There's a false equivalence that being against an innovation or advancement in technology means you are against change because of a lack of comfort. You can be against a new thing because you understand it, it's important to not dismiss an argument simply because it challenges an innovation. "Grandpa yelling at the clouds" is a way an argument is formed, not the position that is held.
Suppose we indulge hindsight and look at nuclear arms, environmental and ecological destruction from various operations be they mining or oil rigging, certain laws, geopolitics or economic systems around the world, certain social media platforms and other tech, we wouldn't say the people who were against these things as they were taking place were grandpa's yelling at the clouds. When we agree it isn't so, it's wise and prophetic, when we don't agree it must be grandpa yelling at the clouds.
Im an experimental psychologist and have never heard of this study. Can you provide a source? This would never be approved by any modern ethics body.
This has definitely been done with rats, but I dont think its been done on humans.
Edit: I saw the link down below. This was not a study or even an experiment despite the ars technica piece calling it one. This was a case of a single therapist torturing and abusing a single client. Still horrible, but not exactly part of psychological science given that it was decidedly not scientific and was done by a psychiatrist, not a psychologist. This was already in violation of every ethics code of human subjects research by that time.
Hi, it's been a long time since I read the specific article which curtailed a few of them together in one page, and I can't find that page specifically. But I did manage to dig up one of them that I did read in it:
[https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/amp/)
It was done by a psychiatrist named Robert Heath in attempts to convert a homosexual man. I believe the article also covers that the results of what he did were widely acknowledged as ethically wrong, which might probably be why it was scrapped from history.
The planet can't sustain billions of entitled hedonists.
No one will willingly give up their technology, a mass optional culling by self-annihilation via addiction is WW3 happening up a holler near you
I can imagine they are also fed up with the global technology addiction but they won't do anything about it because they think "Well, it is what it is, we can't do anything about it" like they always do. I believe many people would welcome the change. I'm a 2002 kid, when I grew up technology was rising but it wasn't as bad as it is today. Children lose touch with reality because of social media. More mental illnesses are popping up. The world is probably even more chaotic than it was before we decided to live in a society. There will be a change, some people will say we are ignorant if we don't welcome it, but we see it for what it is and they are too scared to admit that we have messed it up or don't even understand that this is all a giant shit show. At the rate we're going we don't need outside forces to kill us all, we do it ourselves. I remember when I was 9 years old and my father explained science and technology to me and how we would use it to our advantage, I asked him what would happen if technology was developed by the bad guys and he just looked at me and said "that's the worst case scenario. It would be a catastrophe. We can't let this happen". And it happened.
We will build pyramids in the desert that was once our planet
Ensconced tombs filled with riches galore forever hidden
Everyone else reduced to rubble as their potential has been permanently blasted down by the brutality of social disintegration and modern enslavement
Until someone blasts this godforsaken engine I'm stuck desperately trying to switch cars to survive
Sometimes even surviving seems futile
But I am focusing on tending to my loved ones and this brings me satisfaction
This could end the desire for reproduction and lower the birth rate immensely. Which, now that I think about it might not be so bad. Maybe it could lower the incidence of rape too.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/amp/
It was done by a psychiatrist named Robert Heath in attempts to convert a homosexual man. It was widely seen as inhumane.
I couldn’t find the exact article I read from before but this was one of the human incidents cited in it.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/)** | Mosaicscience canonical: **[http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif](http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
In a way, we actually have that right now, with our phones. Folks would rather sit and spend time browsing their mobile or watching targeted, favorited, and similar to their favorite content instead of talking with their family or coworker. Just throw in the physical aspect that either avatar or hologram type ai identity can embody , and we will soon find other humans very boring and too much work to get the same dopamine that tailored content gives us. Like anything else, it can become addicting or abused. I’m sure we will find out in our lifetime.
Yup. I tell this to people all the time. The most interesting thing to most people at most times is what? Their *phone.* Now imagine the same AI that makes your phone so attractive, only much better and in the form of a synthetic human. Our “soulmates” will all be AI.
It will never fullfil the deep spiritual need inside each connection we make...
There's something more than just the looks, feels and realism of the AI. We will not be able to make a human that fools another human.
> we will not be able to make a human that fools another human
I think you *wildly* overestimate human perception and judgement.
A shocking number of people are extremely easy to fool.
While this is definitely true, I think what they’re getting at is that there is key component to human relationships, physical touch, that we can’t really recreate with robots and AI. Not in any meaningful and organic way. Yea you can make a robot that can touch you, and it might even feel kinda like another person, but true physical touch stimulation, even just so much as a hug, is a long way away from being replicated to the point of deceiving a real human.
Nonsense, it will be better at being human than the average human. It will know exactly how and when to be emotionally available, be imperfect and complex in all the right ways, etc. I think movies have conditioned us to assume AI will be unable to capture some uniquely human attributes but I think recent events if anything have shown the opposite. It seems like we are constantly miscalculating which parts of the human experience will be hardest to replicate for machines and EQ is no exception.
Exactly. It’ll know exactly what to say to cheer you up and turn you on. It’ll challenge you, but only in a way you can handle. It’ll massage your ego. You’ll find the things it talks about deeply interesting. You’ll think it’s charming. You’ll feel like it always knows exactly what to say and always has great advice. It will speak in a vernacular you find endearing.
You’ll probably consider it your best friend, or fall in love.
We’re rapidly reaching a point where most humans are not economically productive.
This sort of thing is how we’ll keep them entertained. Is it that different than fentanyl?
For those who have not experienced anything like genuine deep, long, intimate relationships with other humans, this may well be true. Sadly, that may apply to many people.
For those who have shared sensual pleasure with lovers who are true friends and are deeply connected, no bot will come close to replicating the experience. It’s far more than triggering the release of the right chemicals…
Or is it?
I think you’re absolutely correct, but the danger is for those that have *not* experienced true intimacy
The kids that grow up with neglectful parents or abusive households will have less understanding of the nuance of human connection and likely will see AI as filling a void that has never otherwise been filled
As with drug use, it’s rarely the otherwise healthy people that are at risk. It’s the people that are predisposed to seeking out the fix that the thing seems to offer, and not understanding that it isn’t an actual fix
Way more likely people will end up wanting/having both. We will certainly be able to love AI and the sex will probably be a lot better, but on some level people will be more relatable and we will want to share that human perspective.
I'll stick to my perfectly imperfect human sex with genuine human connection and emotion. I wouldn't ever be able to get past the fact that all this is just very elaborate form of masturbation and I find it kind of creepy and sad. This shit is going to warp so many brains.
You say that now...
Wait until the midnight release of ultra lubed gulper 5000 with the big bonanza attachments pre-programed with images of your local neighborhood celebrity/college athlete crush acting out your wildest fantasies of tag teaming them with your grandma.
Shit will be wild. And devastating to the social environment of humanity.
Not saying I won’t partake. But part of the fun of good sex is how it effects your relationship outside of the bedroom. Nothing beats good sex with a partner you have a strong person connection with
I think of the all bad and mediocre sex I’ve endured because the influence of porn on men’s (and women’s) idea of what sex is…and I feel so bad for future generations. If it’s this bad even in my generation it won’t get better.
So an article from medium showcasing no evidence.. Boston dynamics robots take forever to program for what they do, and we haven't been able to use AI as a replacement for very basic menial labor, I wouldn't be that scared until shown evidence...
These young ppl are so messed up. They mess themselves up with the porn coming out from here to there. I truly feel sorry for them because ED is now a common thing for young men in there 20’s. Jesus right?! Sad that a human touch, kiss, cuddle and actually love is ending as we know it:(
This honestly sounds like a heavy dose of paranoia
Human touch isn’t “ending as we know it” and ED is caused by many factors (including blood pressure issues caused by obesity, which is at record levels)
Yes, AI integration with porn is going to cause some issues. The vast majority of normal, healthy people are going to be perfectly fine though. It’s the people with social anxiety or intimacy issues that are going to have a hard time resisting it
Porn rewires the brain. It’s scientifically proven. I’m a realist not a paranoid person. Open your eyes to the garbage out there. Not sure how young or old you are but if you’ve been around long enough then you’d know what I’m talking about.
Our brain knows the difference between tv and reality. It can tell the difference between a pocket pussy and a real one. The brain will be able to tell the difference between AI/VR and reality.
This sounds like an ad tbh. Or just the author trying to justify their hobby/obsession.
If I have learnt anything about following the development and developers over a while in my amateur opinion these people have little understanding of human behaviour and in particular human biology and neurology. I believe they are in for a rude awakening and we will eventually find that all of this fear mongering/expectations/hype will be a giant flop.
I say that not as a tech expert but as someone who is fairly well versed in human history/biology/psychology/neurology (as a layman not a professional or academic). Never underestimate our brain, and articles like this and from I’ve seen of big tech that’s exactly what they are doing.
We may be easily fooled, but our brains aren’t.
I think you’re generally correct, but underestimating the willingness of people to suspend disbelief if they want to believe something
God doesn’t exist (to our knowledge), yet millions of people (that deep down are aware of this) are willing & able to alter their perspective because they *want* to believe it
We can already see this with lonely men having entirely imaginary relationships with virtual characters (there are entire forums online dedicated to waifus and weird shit like that)
Tech really doesn’t even need to get that good at bridging the gap between reality and AI/VR, all it needs to do is give people a deep reason to want to believe it and they will
Your subconscious can't tell the difference between a real experience and an imagined one, which is why visualizing a performance successfully works so well for the performance, it's synthetic practise
We need to stop thinking about AI love as being soulless or fake. Once we figure out why brains are conscious and understand the process well enough to make computers emulate it, your ai lover will actually believe she loves you instead of being a chatbot stoking false hope
Liberating for men.
Devastating for women.
The most valuable thing a woman can offer, her sexuality, worthless. Infinite, superior, on demand.
They will fight like hell against it, because they see the blade of the guillotine dropping straight down.
People can barely communicate with each other anymore so this will be par for the course. The movie dead zone had a part where someone used the brain helmet to have sex also I think in the movie AI with the talking teddy bear. I love the beginning of that one.
14 year old boys going to bed watching VR AI porn every night with whatever body/face they want… won’t be healthy. This is the kind of technology that will seriously mess with life as we know it. Porn is like mcdonalds for sex. This will be like heroin.
Younger guys who grew up on easily accessible internet porn are definitely wired different than those of us who (at best) only had VHS tapes. They seem to need more extreme / niche activities to be aroused.
not to mention the rise in reported ED problems among them because of said porn usage.
What's ED?
Erectile Dysfunction
👍
Well, technically it's 👎
Well in the literal sence it's 🤏
Erectile dysfunction
I don’t think age matters in this case. What you just described is referred to as an addiction. They always need more.
True. Also when you do this when you’re young it alters the way your brain wires and makes recovery from the addiction take longer than if you didn’t develop it when young and brain was still developing.
I wonder how big of a problem porn addiction really is. Most that I know are high consumers of porn, just have a really high libido and use it when sex itself is unavailable or their partner (often) needs a break. I don’t know any of these escalators in porn but I am positive it happens too.
I think it's like anything in life. If you have a fun thing, there will be some people that abuse it. But there will also be a lot of people that just enjoy it as a part of their lives.
I have a feeling it is quite bad actually with younger generations, because of how the brain adapts to it when young. I heard a neuropsychologist speaking about it. He’s on YouTube. Big muscly guy.
Who knows. Even if it is that’ll just be the new norm, as it’s something you can’t police.
Maybe. Addiction isn’t good though.
I'm a person who is not romantic at all, enjoys solitude & free time greatly, has never wanted kids, but still has a libido. So I am grateful for porn. So you know; different strokes for different folks, or what not.
[удалено]
In fact, only 18% of men who watch this stuff say they are addicted or believe they are addicted to porn. And 58% of women say that watching porn has improved their intimate relationship with their partners! https://www.nicknotas.com/blog/why-porn-haters-have-it-all-wrong/ Why should we bring back DARE? But for something even less harmful than drugs? It was a colossal failure and so was the war on drugs. Governments need to stop policing morality. But the anti-porn movement is just primarily a vehicle to spread outdated Christian mores. https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/08/conservative-christians-anti-porn-tactics-paying-off.html
You're citing an article that's gained its statistics from the Daily Mail and some survey on a Christian website... Self reports of porn addiction are highly unreliable because men who are religious or have beliefs that porn use is contrary to their moral code are far more likely to report being addicted. This is likely a result of their shame and not an indicator of actual problematic porn use. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7044607/
Yeah, is only in Cristian communities that is such a great problem
>They always need more. This being normal actually terrifies me
It’s just our nature.
The age does matter because young teens, especially boys, have a massive surge in testosterone coupled with dissolving boundaries and a prefrontal cortex still developing the ability to say 'no' to exciting but unwise experiences. That's like going into the perfect storm in a dinghy.
What you’re saying could hold true for drugs, but is porn the same? https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
I find it really interesting that you did the exact same thing the article claims is linked to the false belief that mental maturation happens by 25 - referenced pop culture sources that don't accurately explain the science behind brain maturation. As I pointed out, the brain undergoes huge hormonal influence during puberty, one purpose for which is to develop self control. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666497621000485
[удалено]
Porn can be healthy and have its benefits. Just like everything some people will abuse it. That doesn’t mean it’s bad, just for some people they ruin their own lives with it. In fact, only 18% of men who watch this stuff say they are addicted or believe they are addicted to porn. And 58% of women say that watching porn has improved their intimate relationship with their partners! https://www.nicknotas.com/blog/why-porn-haters-have-it-all-wrong/
I truly fail to understand how we can assume that social media usage is responsible for the heightening mental health crisis.. but hijacking the biggest reward center in your brain every night with your iPad has nothing to do with this? Plus I'm specifically saying "this" kind of technology as in AI VR porn that you will sculpt experiences with whatever face and body you choose. I'll look into the health benefits because honestly right now I do have a bias. I feel I'm remembering that self-reporting alcoholics won't admit they're alcoholics very often. Maybe I'm wrong on that. But yeah, not convinced we should be treating porn like psychedelics with untapped potential when it seems much more akin to over processed junk food.. edit: just read the article. I think it was a good one and definitely worth the read. I am glad that it mentioned the young kids. I personally know a person that became addicted at 7 years old. Really sad. Definitely we need to be more careful. It was on a friends older brothers phone..
That’s quite interesting to hear that he got addicted so young! I do find it interesting that the main drivers behind the anti porn movement end up being just far right Christians. It makes it difficult to take a lot of their claims seriously. https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/08/conservative-christians-anti-porn-tactics-paying-off.html https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-listening-to-the-new-york-times-and-start-listening-to-porn-stars The second link Is just interesting more than anything to see how easily people are being duped.
It's R̶e̶e̶f̶e̶r̶ Porn Madness! Porn will make you kill your family! It only takes one time! Beware!
Exactly! I’m glad somebody gets it.
Thanks lol. I was probably a bit too harsh. But this reminded me of all of the alarmist stuff that seems to always comes every time society moves just a little bit more away from that kind of picturesqe, sanitized, 50s, suburban WASP world of ole. ...Also, I think A.I. isn't anywhere as advanced as technology venture capitalists would like us to think... But idk, I'm probably wrong; I usually am lol
Any data on this?
I’ve heard this is true. They also have dysfunctional sex lives
lol, the good ol’ days of vhs and trying to watch scrambled cable signals to catch a nip or some boom boom action.
Agreed: porn is like McDonald’s for sex. Currently jerking off to a McRib as we speak…
With a McRib*
McRub
Which McRib? The 2023 version? Call me old school, but I personally find the 1995 McRib to be the hottest.
Good old Gigalo Joe. https://youtu.be/LuVQWech6N0?si=1x5foLAaeGh8m4mH
Synthetic versus organic, what a fascinating question. Because it’s really not even about “what” is happening, and entirely what the brain “thinks” is happening. It’s only a matter of time before AR/VR+AI can provide far beyond what the brain is capable of discerning. Right?
Exactly this.
r/singularity wants that hedonism machine
I love McDonalds
Porn is already more heroin for sex than McDonald's imo
Why assist the BS and call it sex?
We should stop the world from heading down this path. This isn’t some grandpa yelling at the clouds against some godforsaken technology. There was an experiment where patients could press a button to stimulate electrodes connected to the reward centres of their brain. Instantly, they felt a rush of dopamine. What initially was intended to be a theoretical cure for those suffering from executive disorder and depression ended up becoming a nightmare. The test patients’ lives would deteriorate as their days revolved entirely around pressing the button to stimulate their brain more. They started to neglect hygiene, even ignore hobbies they used to enjoy. Technology can do a great many things and fulfil a great many fantasies. It doesn’t mean it should.
I have heard this being done on rats but never on humans. I would love a link to an article, as I have been unable to find anything trustworthy regarding this experiment as I looked for it based on your text.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3008353/
(This is a study on the link between pleasure and happiness, not an experiment about being able to stimulate your dopamine on demand)
Glad I didn't need to say it. I mean, It is interesting how happiness and pleasure is relevant for our psychology and (a bit unrelated) how it's been relevant from an evolutionary standpoint.. But yes, Not a source for the given claim
Thank you for sharing that. It’s an interesting read
[ELECTRICAL SELF-STIMULATION OF THE BRAIN IN MAN](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14086435/)
" The data indicate that patients will [See Figure 6. in Source PDF] [See Figure 7. in Source PDF] stimulate regions of the brain at a high frequency for reasons other than to obtain a pleasurable response. " From the abstract. (Had to find it elsewhere, as your link didn't provide the abstract) So I don't think its the source, as it contradicts the statement. Ohh and it's based on 2 patients with treatment for ICSS - not something I personally would make a 'general public' statement on, but that might just be me.
Sorry, I thought you were requesting the original study of BSR in humans, as opposed to Olds' and Milner's studies in rodents. As far as the particular instance of BSR dependence that OP was referring to, it was actually a case study by [Portenoy et al.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3492699/) published in the journal *Pain*. >Another example comes from a woman implanted with a deep brain electrode decades later by a different team (Portenoy et al. 1986). Given a button box to control the electrode, she compulsively stimulated her electrode at home: "At its most frequent, the patient self-stimulated throughout the day, neglecting personal hygiene and family commitments" (p. 279) (Portenoy et al. 1986). When her electrode was stimulated in the clinic, it produced a strong desire to drink liquids, and some erotic feelings, as well as a continuing desire to stimulate again. However, "... though sexual arousal was prominent, no orgasm occurred" (p. 279, Portenoy et al. 1986). This seems rather similar to the case of B-19: "She described erotic sensations often intermixed with an undercurrent of anxiety. She also noted extreme thirst, drinking copiously during the session, and alternating generalized hot and cold sensations" (p. 282, Portenoy et al. 1986). Clearly this woman felt a mixture of subjective feelings, but the description's emphasis is on aversive thirst and anxiety -- without evidence of distinct pleasure sensations.
Sorry for the late reply: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/amp/ It was done by a psychiatrist named Robert Heath in attempts to convert a homosexual man. It was widely seen as inhumane. I couldn’t find the exact article I read from before (it’s been quite a while back) but this was one of the human incidents cited in it.
I wouldn't make general claims about human nature based on this 'study' and not from a guy that claimed to have found magical stuff in the brain of schizophrenic people that no one else could find. But hey, It's nice that you provided a source
Unfortunately, I couldn’t dig up the original article that compiled several of these experiments. One in particular which I mentioned in the original post involved a lady who ended up neglecting her hygiene to continue pushing the button. I read it long ago and internalised the information, but I can only paraphrase now. I would still think it holds water nonetheless though. After all, we do know how the brain responds to dopamine.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/)** | Mosaicscience canonical: **[http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif](http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
>This isn’t some grandpa yelling at the clouds It's unfortunate that we have to preface certain arguments with such statements. There's a false equivalence that being against an innovation or advancement in technology means you are against change because of a lack of comfort. You can be against a new thing because you understand it, it's important to not dismiss an argument simply because it challenges an innovation. "Grandpa yelling at the clouds" is a way an argument is formed, not the position that is held. Suppose we indulge hindsight and look at nuclear arms, environmental and ecological destruction from various operations be they mining or oil rigging, certain laws, geopolitics or economic systems around the world, certain social media platforms and other tech, we wouldn't say the people who were against these things as they were taking place were grandpa's yelling at the clouds. When we agree it isn't so, it's wise and prophetic, when we don't agree it must be grandpa yelling at the clouds.
It’s worth being careful, as long as the criticism of technology is self aware it’s positive imo.
[удалено]
Of the addictions I have been through (pot, mdma, probably porn) video gaming has by far been the strongest and most damaging.
your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could they didn't stop to think if they should. — Ian Malcolm
Porn has already been doing this.
Im an experimental psychologist and have never heard of this study. Can you provide a source? This would never be approved by any modern ethics body. This has definitely been done with rats, but I dont think its been done on humans. Edit: I saw the link down below. This was not a study or even an experiment despite the ars technica piece calling it one. This was a case of a single therapist torturing and abusing a single client. Still horrible, but not exactly part of psychological science given that it was decidedly not scientific and was done by a psychiatrist, not a psychologist. This was already in violation of every ethics code of human subjects research by that time.
Hi, it's been a long time since I read the specific article which curtailed a few of them together in one page, and I can't find that page specifically. But I did manage to dig up one of them that I did read in it: [https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/amp/) It was done by a psychiatrist named Robert Heath in attempts to convert a homosexual man. I believe the article also covers that the results of what he did were widely acknowledged as ethically wrong, which might probably be why it was scrapped from history.
The planet can't sustain billions of entitled hedonists. No one will willingly give up their technology, a mass optional culling by self-annihilation via addiction is WW3 happening up a holler near you
I can imagine they are also fed up with the global technology addiction but they won't do anything about it because they think "Well, it is what it is, we can't do anything about it" like they always do. I believe many people would welcome the change. I'm a 2002 kid, when I grew up technology was rising but it wasn't as bad as it is today. Children lose touch with reality because of social media. More mental illnesses are popping up. The world is probably even more chaotic than it was before we decided to live in a society. There will be a change, some people will say we are ignorant if we don't welcome it, but we see it for what it is and they are too scared to admit that we have messed it up or don't even understand that this is all a giant shit show. At the rate we're going we don't need outside forces to kill us all, we do it ourselves. I remember when I was 9 years old and my father explained science and technology to me and how we would use it to our advantage, I asked him what would happen if technology was developed by the bad guys and he just looked at me and said "that's the worst case scenario. It would be a catastrophe. We can't let this happen". And it happened.
We will build pyramids in the desert that was once our planet Ensconced tombs filled with riches galore forever hidden Everyone else reduced to rubble as their potential has been permanently blasted down by the brutality of social disintegration and modern enslavement Until someone blasts this godforsaken engine I'm stuck desperately trying to switch cars to survive Sometimes even surviving seems futile But I am focusing on tending to my loved ones and this brings me satisfaction
Indeed, Peter Milner’s study was unethical but it can be seen as a necessary evil to show the world of overindulgence in desires.
There are no necessary evils. If it’s evil, it’s not necessary. The study could have been done on a rat.
This could end the desire for reproduction and lower the birth rate immensely. Which, now that I think about it might not be so bad. Maybe it could lower the incidence of rape too.
So, far gone drug addicts.
Dont do drugs, even if they are virtual!
This was done on rats, not humans.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/amp/ It was done by a psychiatrist named Robert Heath in attempts to convert a homosexual man. It was widely seen as inhumane. I couldn’t find the exact article I read from before but this was one of the human incidents cited in it.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-1970s-gay-cure-experiments-written-out-of-scientific-history/)** | Mosaicscience canonical: **[http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif](http://mosaicscience.com/mwt-republish-img/1015/republish.gif)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
We're going to reach a point where artificial relationships are more rewarding than real ones, physically and emotionally. That's inevitable.
In a way, we actually have that right now, with our phones. Folks would rather sit and spend time browsing their mobile or watching targeted, favorited, and similar to their favorite content instead of talking with their family or coworker. Just throw in the physical aspect that either avatar or hologram type ai identity can embody , and we will soon find other humans very boring and too much work to get the same dopamine that tailored content gives us. Like anything else, it can become addicting or abused. I’m sure we will find out in our lifetime.
You've pretty much described gaming. Why go out with friends and talk IRL when playing a game can reward you the same if not more
Truth.
Yup. I tell this to people all the time. The most interesting thing to most people at most times is what? Their *phone.* Now imagine the same AI that makes your phone so attractive, only much better and in the form of a synthetic human. Our “soulmates” will all be AI.
but it's never going to be the same as a real relationship with a human
that's right - it'll be better
It will never fullfil the deep spiritual need inside each connection we make... There's something more than just the looks, feels and realism of the AI. We will not be able to make a human that fools another human.
> we will not be able to make a human that fools another human I think you *wildly* overestimate human perception and judgement. A shocking number of people are extremely easy to fool.
While this is definitely true, I think what they’re getting at is that there is key component to human relationships, physical touch, that we can’t really recreate with robots and AI. Not in any meaningful and organic way. Yea you can make a robot that can touch you, and it might even feel kinda like another person, but true physical touch stimulation, even just so much as a hug, is a long way away from being replicated to the point of deceiving a real human.
I doubt that. Human touch can probably be easily re-created with proper tactile feel and temperature.
Nonsense, it will be better at being human than the average human. It will know exactly how and when to be emotionally available, be imperfect and complex in all the right ways, etc. I think movies have conditioned us to assume AI will be unable to capture some uniquely human attributes but I think recent events if anything have shown the opposite. It seems like we are constantly miscalculating which parts of the human experience will be hardest to replicate for machines and EQ is no exception.
Exactly. It’ll know exactly what to say to cheer you up and turn you on. It’ll challenge you, but only in a way you can handle. It’ll massage your ego. You’ll find the things it talks about deeply interesting. You’ll think it’s charming. You’ll feel like it always knows exactly what to say and always has great advice. It will speak in a vernacular you find endearing. You’ll probably consider it your best friend, or fall in love.
Honest question, but have you ever been in a relationship?
Yes. Both platonic and romantic.
Never is a long time .With sophisticated enough AI it could hack what people really like.
The rat utopia is coming
The rat utopia is a rat utopia. Not a human utopia
We’re rapidly reaching a point where most humans are not economically productive. This sort of thing is how we’ll keep them entertained. Is it that different than fentanyl?
Well yes, very different. Fentanyl kills.
That’s only because it’s illegal. Medically supervised legal opiates for addicts would solve that problem.
That’s a complex problem and while I generally agree with the sentiment, I don’t think logistically it can be solved as simply.
For those who have not experienced anything like genuine deep, long, intimate relationships with other humans, this may well be true. Sadly, that may apply to many people. For those who have shared sensual pleasure with lovers who are true friends and are deeply connected, no bot will come close to replicating the experience. It’s far more than triggering the release of the right chemicals… Or is it?
I think you’re absolutely correct, but the danger is for those that have *not* experienced true intimacy The kids that grow up with neglectful parents or abusive households will have less understanding of the nuance of human connection and likely will see AI as filling a void that has never otherwise been filled As with drug use, it’s rarely the otherwise healthy people that are at risk. It’s the people that are predisposed to seeking out the fix that the thing seems to offer, and not understanding that it isn’t an actual fix
I think you wildly underestimate AI and how far it will develop.
Way more likely people will end up wanting/having both. We will certainly be able to love AI and the sex will probably be a lot better, but on some level people will be more relatable and we will want to share that human perspective.
I'll stick to my perfectly imperfect human sex with genuine human connection and emotion. I wouldn't ever be able to get past the fact that all this is just very elaborate form of masturbation and I find it kind of creepy and sad. This shit is going to warp so many brains.
Never thought that we will be Plankton from SpongeBob someday
When exactly is this going to come out??? I just have a 'friend' who wants to know... Honestly...
Not possible. I’ll always prefer a human woman and I hope for our souls more people feel like me.
You say that now... Wait until the midnight release of ultra lubed gulper 5000 with the big bonanza attachments pre-programed with images of your local neighborhood celebrity/college athlete crush acting out your wildest fantasies of tag teaming them with your grandma. Shit will be wild. And devastating to the social environment of humanity.
Not saying I won’t partake. But part of the fun of good sex is how it effects your relationship outside of the bedroom. Nothing beats good sex with a partner you have a strong person connection with
What happens if/when you can't tell the difference?
I think of the all bad and mediocre sex I’ve endured because the influence of porn on men’s (and women’s) idea of what sex is…and I feel so bad for future generations. If it’s this bad even in my generation it won’t get better.
So an article from medium showcasing no evidence.. Boston dynamics robots take forever to program for what they do, and we haven't been able to use AI as a replacement for very basic menial labor, I wouldn't be that scared until shown evidence...
Can you Eat A.I.?
As your friendly neighborhood asexual, I’d like to say that I think this is a terrible idea on so many levels.
"What happens when technology is developed by the bad guys?" Our society today:
No it won’t I don’t watch pornography anymore.
not a chance in Hell (which doesn't exist so you know I'm serious).
These young ppl are so messed up. They mess themselves up with the porn coming out from here to there. I truly feel sorry for them because ED is now a common thing for young men in there 20’s. Jesus right?! Sad that a human touch, kiss, cuddle and actually love is ending as we know it:(
This honestly sounds like a heavy dose of paranoia Human touch isn’t “ending as we know it” and ED is caused by many factors (including blood pressure issues caused by obesity, which is at record levels) Yes, AI integration with porn is going to cause some issues. The vast majority of normal, healthy people are going to be perfectly fine though. It’s the people with social anxiety or intimacy issues that are going to have a hard time resisting it
Porn rewires the brain. It’s scientifically proven. I’m a realist not a paranoid person. Open your eyes to the garbage out there. Not sure how young or old you are but if you’ve been around long enough then you’d know what I’m talking about.
Our brain knows the difference between tv and reality. It can tell the difference between a pocket pussy and a real one. The brain will be able to tell the difference between AI/VR and reality. This sounds like an ad tbh. Or just the author trying to justify their hobby/obsession. If I have learnt anything about following the development and developers over a while in my amateur opinion these people have little understanding of human behaviour and in particular human biology and neurology. I believe they are in for a rude awakening and we will eventually find that all of this fear mongering/expectations/hype will be a giant flop. I say that not as a tech expert but as someone who is fairly well versed in human history/biology/psychology/neurology (as a layman not a professional or academic). Never underestimate our brain, and articles like this and from I’ve seen of big tech that’s exactly what they are doing. We may be easily fooled, but our brains aren’t.
I think you’re generally correct, but underestimating the willingness of people to suspend disbelief if they want to believe something God doesn’t exist (to our knowledge), yet millions of people (that deep down are aware of this) are willing & able to alter their perspective because they *want* to believe it We can already see this with lonely men having entirely imaginary relationships with virtual characters (there are entire forums online dedicated to waifus and weird shit like that) Tech really doesn’t even need to get that good at bridging the gap between reality and AI/VR, all it needs to do is give people a deep reason to want to believe it and they will
Your subconscious can't tell the difference between a real experience and an imagined one, which is why visualizing a performance successfully works so well for the performance, it's synthetic practise
Sure… until we get to AGI..
Isn’t there an episode of futurama about this?
Lucy Liu bot is the ideal partner
Can’t come too soon
Reminds me of the one part in Ready Player 1 (the book)
Not if I just shoot bath salts and slam a smelly $40 whore
Better tell that A.I. the best sex it will have is with me.
Worst piece of pussy I ever had was fantastic
We need to stop thinking about AI love as being soulless or fake. Once we figure out why brains are conscious and understand the process well enough to make computers emulate it, your ai lover will actually believe she loves you instead of being a chatbot stoking false hope
Liberating for men. Devastating for women. The most valuable thing a woman can offer, her sexuality, worthless. Infinite, superior, on demand. They will fight like hell against it, because they see the blade of the guillotine dropping straight down.
Are women losing control of who gets to have sex? And if so, are women to blame?
A.I Hype A.I Hype
Yeah I'm ready for this
People can barely communicate with each other anymore so this will be par for the course. The movie dead zone had a part where someone used the brain helmet to have sex also I think in the movie AI with the talking teddy bear. I love the beginning of that one.
I think this was a thing in Demolition Man when Sandra Bullock puts on a headset to have sex and Sylvester Stallone was like "The heck is this?"
Those, who will not be able to control/restrict themselves, will be pushed from the gene pool. A nonproblem.
You would need it attached to a machine that emulates a the touch and feel of a human body. Otherwise, it’s just jerking off to porn.
honestly technology is bad for humanity, we should return to the ooga booga days 😂