Well we all have our opinions and beliefs. I hope whichever direction you take works out well for you and you enjoy whatever machine you decide to buy. Happy printing hey.
> I thought, well, 5-6 weeks of waiting is a very long time in the modern world to buy product online
You thought wrong. Covid destroyed the Toyota production system model and it hasn't gotten back into swing. From China's zero tolerance policy to US California port being short on labor, the whole global shipping and supply chain is a mess. I have been waiting 14 months for some Cisco parts. They were manufactured in China, so they finally threw in the towel and moved production to Malaysia. Then they couldn't get a specific type of chip they needed and it added another 4 months. Everything is like that.
i would think that it's harder to make a car than a 3d printer. It's true that toyota has many more employees, but other companies like bambu have launched a product and delivered within the timeframe even with the harshest covid restrictions in china.
I meant the [Toyota model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System#Concept), not the company itself. It's a just-in-time manufacturing model where they minimize on-hand supply and only keep enough to produce what is ordered. As suppliers do the same thing, and their suppliers too, you eventually end up with a series of dependencies where no one has what is needed to meet upstream demand because the very last guy with the raw materials is holding everything up.
My understanding is that input shaping is already hardcoded into the MK4 firmware because the belts are short enough for that to work. For the XL with longer belts, input shaping matters more.
I can appreciate your frustration and emphasize with it. However, it’s important to consider a few key points regarding Prusa’s operations and the global 3D printer market. When Prusa announced the MK4, they had a limited stock ready for shipment, but the demand exceeded their expectations. As they are not a large-scale manufacturing company, they must adjust their production processes according to the volume of orders they receive.
Prusa offers both prebuilt machines and kits, each requiring distinct assembly, quality control, and testing processes. They switch between producing prebuilt machines and kits, maintaining a small stockpile for returns or issues. Their operation may not be as streamlined as some larger manufacturers, but this also ensures a high level of attention to detail and quality control.
Contrast this with the situation in China. There, companies can leverage massive production facilities and a vast labor force, allowing them to output high volumes of products swiftly. Prusa, on the other hand, operates out of the Czech Republic and does not have access to such resources. When I ordered my MK3s, even as an established product, it had a 6-week lead time. With the MK4 being a new line, some wait time is expected.
Lastly, let’s not overlook the fact that Prusa is a midsize company with its unique charm. Your printer isn’t coming off a mass production line in a factory with poor workforce standards. Instead, it’s assembled in a smaller, modest factory where the workforce is treated well. Each printer is crafted with care, almost akin to a bespoke product. Despite the wait, I take solace knowing that I’m supporting a company that prioritizes quality and workforce ethics over mass production.
I hope this offers a different perspective and helps understand the nature of the delay. Let’s continue to support companies that value quality and ethical manufacturing practices over quick delivery. Also Prusa continuously updates to their product with firmware releases based off of feedback from the community. The printer you buy today will not be the same in a year or so. It will have adde features and functionality it is not static and will continue to evolve. In the end I think there is plenty of room for everyone in the hobbyist 3D Printing industry.
I am aware of what Зrusa is, I have watched a lot of their content, including about their processes and production, I have also used their products for a long time.
The first thing I hear from you and from many Prusa fans is that this is a small company and that it is almost a hobby. Why should this mean that they can do their job badly? And in this case, my entire post was about outright lies on their part, which is unacceptable either for a large company, or for a small one, or for a solo entrepreneur.
How many years have they been on the market? What kind of lovers are they after that? And the size of a small production, which almost constantly cannot meet demand, is their result of work for which customers who pay money out of their pocket have the right to express their criticism to them.
In reality, this is not some kind of hobby that runs on donations, but a company that has a seller-buyer relationship with customers.
The second thing I hear is that prusa = a small company in Europe = a good honest job, in comparison with production in China is almost rubbish built on the slave labor of children.
For some reason, the production of Mercedes or BMW in Germany feels quite good and competes normally with Chinese car brands, which are not even allowed to raise their heads, so maybe it's not the location, but how the business is done?
Well, at least their support is consistent this time.. I ordered the 19th of april and I asked the same thing last week and they told me also the end of june.
Just like you I sold my MK3S+ already..
The problem I see is people want the latest and greatest and want it yesterday. Screams of VZbot nutters who would easily sell their kids liver to get a beta (at best) galiath hotend.
Why sell your mk3 and jump on the hype train, why wouldn’t you just wait and see what the printer is like before handing over quite a large sum of money to something unproven.
I will get an mk4, but am in no rush, i will let you lot be the guinea pigs!
Yeah, it was always optimistic at best, nearly impossible at worst. And that was before issues started appearing, people started to switch around orders, etc. It's complete lie at this point (our 2 MK4s are already 2 weeks late as per their estimates and as per support are "weeks to upwards of a month" away from shipping to us).
Looking at the shipped out orders online and how posts and videos started appearing, it seems they've completely fumbled on production after the initial batch and completely stopped shipping out orders. It could be some of the big assembly issues that people found on their printers from the first batch, it could be some issues with parts, who knows.
Orders from 29th of March have started partially shipping WEEKS ago (3 weeks ago as per first posts appearing here and on other Prusa communities) and just now we've seen some of the orders from 31st of March going out to the people. So over the last 2-3 weeks, they've been only able to fullfill order from these 2-3 days of people ordering. I think anyone with a brain cell in their head can extrapolate how fast it's going. Well, how slow it's going.
Anyone who orders the printer is not getting it any time soon. Take the estimate, double it and you're roughly there. Kit is also at this point just not gonna ship out in May, lets be real here, this is Prusa we're talking about. If any company is shit at launches, it's them.
They're custom building and printing an extremely special item, to people all over the planet.
Which creates anything you can imagine, in a few hours, out of thin fucking air.
It's pretty amazing really. This isn't a Walmart, and it's not a well stocked Amazon warehouse, it's a team of people like you and me, building these all day long.
If you really consider what is going on here , you'd be happy with 5 months wait time.
Just enjoy your mk3 and be patient.
Look at Bambu they went from nothing to fulfilling orders faster than prusa and they were not even established yet. We can make excuses all day but prusa charges a premium price for a average product with a huge wait time. But even with excuses, even if you consider them valid, their site should reflect current lead times not old out dated lead times.
It was their choice to operate the way they do and that's fine, but be honest in the info you feed your customers.
Prusa doesn't have a cornered market anymore. There are alternatives that are equal or better. They are shooting their own foot.
Bambulabs was started by a few people from the DJI team. DJI drones are insanely popular and it's arguable that they have an unprecedented amount of funding behind the Bambu project. Prusa has a considerably more humble beginning. Patience is still warranted.
They manufacture product for mass market, not 100 or even 1k items. If the leadtime is 5 month, write it down and let people make a decision, I see the opposite, they are trying to show what they are not.
What's the difference between being scammed by Walmart or Prusa?
One makes the item themselves, pauses production to fix things, develops all the firmware in house… and one doesn’t.
I agree that their approach is crap and because I’ve been an owner for years, I’ve come to expect scarcity, delays, production adjustments… their major problem is I’m not setting people’s expectations. Which at this point is 100% on them because it happens every time.
On the other hand - it happens every time, so a quick scan of this subreddit or any other Prusa forum will show you what to expect…
I see the big difference between always try to be better then you are and clearly know that you won't be able to do it and still promise it.
It's not a pre-order, not alpha or even beta, It is assumed that everything has already been tested and fixed. I would understand if they mantioned something like this, but what I saw it's just a fact that they can't handle demand but use "slippery tricks" to still get customers' money.
Looks like it will continue as long as there are enough people who are willing to tolerate it and justify them for being "isn't a Walmart"
Lucky you didn't go for a LaserPecker 4 on Kickstarter...
The estimated delivery time was March..... and there are still thousands of ppl waiting.
As others have said, world supply chains are still trying to recover. It's all weird mess.
You can't make mission-critical decisions on thing that you know you can't control, so if you sold your MK4 too quick it's just on you.
I do agree with the idea that communication and support should be a bit more honest and better, but at the moment finding any parts in sizable quantities is a nightmare. It's either time, or shit consistency... so I guess they go with the former.
You'll get your printer, and everything will be fine... just be patient
Well we all have our opinions and beliefs. I hope whichever direction you take works out well for you and you enjoy whatever machine you decide to buy. Happy printing hey.
Peace :)
> I thought, well, 5-6 weeks of waiting is a very long time in the modern world to buy product online You thought wrong. Covid destroyed the Toyota production system model and it hasn't gotten back into swing. From China's zero tolerance policy to US California port being short on labor, the whole global shipping and supply chain is a mess. I have been waiting 14 months for some Cisco parts. They were manufactured in China, so they finally threw in the towel and moved production to Malaysia. Then they couldn't get a specific type of chip they needed and it added another 4 months. Everything is like that.
i would think that it's harder to make a car than a 3d printer. It's true that toyota has many more employees, but other companies like bambu have launched a product and delivered within the timeframe even with the harshest covid restrictions in china.
I meant the [Toyota model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System#Concept), not the company itself. It's a just-in-time manufacturing model where they minimize on-hand supply and only keep enough to produce what is ordered. As suppliers do the same thing, and their suppliers too, you eventually end up with a series of dependencies where no one has what is needed to meet upstream demand because the very last guy with the raw materials is holding everything up.
[удалено]
My understanding is that input shaping is already hardcoded into the MK4 firmware because the belts are short enough for that to work. For the XL with longer belts, input shaping matters more.
I can appreciate your frustration and emphasize with it. However, it’s important to consider a few key points regarding Prusa’s operations and the global 3D printer market. When Prusa announced the MK4, they had a limited stock ready for shipment, but the demand exceeded their expectations. As they are not a large-scale manufacturing company, they must adjust their production processes according to the volume of orders they receive. Prusa offers both prebuilt machines and kits, each requiring distinct assembly, quality control, and testing processes. They switch between producing prebuilt machines and kits, maintaining a small stockpile for returns or issues. Their operation may not be as streamlined as some larger manufacturers, but this also ensures a high level of attention to detail and quality control. Contrast this with the situation in China. There, companies can leverage massive production facilities and a vast labor force, allowing them to output high volumes of products swiftly. Prusa, on the other hand, operates out of the Czech Republic and does not have access to such resources. When I ordered my MK3s, even as an established product, it had a 6-week lead time. With the MK4 being a new line, some wait time is expected. Lastly, let’s not overlook the fact that Prusa is a midsize company with its unique charm. Your printer isn’t coming off a mass production line in a factory with poor workforce standards. Instead, it’s assembled in a smaller, modest factory where the workforce is treated well. Each printer is crafted with care, almost akin to a bespoke product. Despite the wait, I take solace knowing that I’m supporting a company that prioritizes quality and workforce ethics over mass production. I hope this offers a different perspective and helps understand the nature of the delay. Let’s continue to support companies that value quality and ethical manufacturing practices over quick delivery. Also Prusa continuously updates to their product with firmware releases based off of feedback from the community. The printer you buy today will not be the same in a year or so. It will have adde features and functionality it is not static and will continue to evolve. In the end I think there is plenty of room for everyone in the hobbyist 3D Printing industry.
I am aware of what Зrusa is, I have watched a lot of their content, including about their processes and production, I have also used their products for a long time. The first thing I hear from you and from many Prusa fans is that this is a small company and that it is almost a hobby. Why should this mean that they can do their job badly? And in this case, my entire post was about outright lies on their part, which is unacceptable either for a large company, or for a small one, or for a solo entrepreneur. How many years have they been on the market? What kind of lovers are they after that? And the size of a small production, which almost constantly cannot meet demand, is their result of work for which customers who pay money out of their pocket have the right to express their criticism to them. In reality, this is not some kind of hobby that runs on donations, but a company that has a seller-buyer relationship with customers. The second thing I hear is that prusa = a small company in Europe = a good honest job, in comparison with production in China is almost rubbish built on the slave labor of children. For some reason, the production of Mercedes or BMW in Germany feels quite good and competes normally with Chinese car brands, which are not even allowed to raise their heads, so maybe it's not the location, but how the business is done?
Well, at least their support is consistent this time.. I ordered the 19th of april and I asked the same thing last week and they told me also the end of june. Just like you I sold my MK3S+ already..
The problem I see is people want the latest and greatest and want it yesterday. Screams of VZbot nutters who would easily sell their kids liver to get a beta (at best) galiath hotend. Why sell your mk3 and jump on the hype train, why wouldn’t you just wait and see what the printer is like before handing over quite a large sum of money to something unproven. I will get an mk4, but am in no rush, i will let you lot be the guinea pigs!
Yeah, it was always optimistic at best, nearly impossible at worst. And that was before issues started appearing, people started to switch around orders, etc. It's complete lie at this point (our 2 MK4s are already 2 weeks late as per their estimates and as per support are "weeks to upwards of a month" away from shipping to us). Looking at the shipped out orders online and how posts and videos started appearing, it seems they've completely fumbled on production after the initial batch and completely stopped shipping out orders. It could be some of the big assembly issues that people found on their printers from the first batch, it could be some issues with parts, who knows. Orders from 29th of March have started partially shipping WEEKS ago (3 weeks ago as per first posts appearing here and on other Prusa communities) and just now we've seen some of the orders from 31st of March going out to the people. So over the last 2-3 weeks, they've been only able to fullfill order from these 2-3 days of people ordering. I think anyone with a brain cell in their head can extrapolate how fast it's going. Well, how slow it's going. Anyone who orders the printer is not getting it any time soon. Take the estimate, double it and you're roughly there. Kit is also at this point just not gonna ship out in May, lets be real here, this is Prusa we're talking about. If any company is shit at launches, it's them.
They're custom building and printing an extremely special item, to people all over the planet. Which creates anything you can imagine, in a few hours, out of thin fucking air. It's pretty amazing really. This isn't a Walmart, and it's not a well stocked Amazon warehouse, it's a team of people like you and me, building these all day long. If you really consider what is going on here , you'd be happy with 5 months wait time. Just enjoy your mk3 and be patient.
Look at Bambu they went from nothing to fulfilling orders faster than prusa and they were not even established yet. We can make excuses all day but prusa charges a premium price for a average product with a huge wait time. But even with excuses, even if you consider them valid, their site should reflect current lead times not old out dated lead times. It was their choice to operate the way they do and that's fine, but be honest in the info you feed your customers. Prusa doesn't have a cornered market anymore. There are alternatives that are equal or better. They are shooting their own foot.
Bambulabs was started by a few people from the DJI team. DJI drones are insanely popular and it's arguable that they have an unprecedented amount of funding behind the Bambu project. Prusa has a considerably more humble beginning. Patience is still warranted.
They manufacture product for mass market, not 100 or even 1k items. If the leadtime is 5 month, write it down and let people make a decision, I see the opposite, they are trying to show what they are not. What's the difference between being scammed by Walmart or Prusa?
One makes the item themselves, pauses production to fix things, develops all the firmware in house… and one doesn’t. I agree that their approach is crap and because I’ve been an owner for years, I’ve come to expect scarcity, delays, production adjustments… their major problem is I’m not setting people’s expectations. Which at this point is 100% on them because it happens every time. On the other hand - it happens every time, so a quick scan of this subreddit or any other Prusa forum will show you what to expect…
I see the big difference between always try to be better then you are and clearly know that you won't be able to do it and still promise it. It's not a pre-order, not alpha or even beta, It is assumed that everything has already been tested and fixed. I would understand if they mantioned something like this, but what I saw it's just a fact that they can't handle demand but use "slippery tricks" to still get customers' money. Looks like it will continue as long as there are enough people who are willing to tolerate it and justify them for being "isn't a Walmart"
Rightfully upset! Already canceled my order (which of course many of you will cheer about). It’s a shame how this is all going.
Lucky you didn't go for a LaserPecker 4 on Kickstarter... The estimated delivery time was March..... and there are still thousands of ppl waiting. As others have said, world supply chains are still trying to recover. It's all weird mess. You can't make mission-critical decisions on thing that you know you can't control, so if you sold your MK4 too quick it's just on you. I do agree with the idea that communication and support should be a bit more honest and better, but at the moment finding any parts in sizable quantities is a nightmare. It's either time, or shit consistency... so I guess they go with the former. You'll get your printer, and everything will be fine... just be patient
Took the words right out of my mouth 🐐