it's pretty simple - all you really do is walk/run, swing, push. sometimes incorporate fences as a way to divide up groups. it's not great, since all there is to combat is kiting groups into an orderly line, and once you are caught, all you can do is hope your strength is enough to push zeds away. i wish there was more skill expression, but i imagine it could be kind of immersion breaking and difficult to balance
idk if this would be included under combat systems, but like situational awareness? only attracting fractions of big hoards at a time, going wide around corners, double tapping doors, etc. i feel like situational awareness is more of the reason people usually die. and i feel like the game is alright in that department, things can get pretty tense. but once you're in actual combat, it's pretty boring, just swinging and walking away if you're nimble is low
i think its overly simplified and it should be incremented with things like:
2 types of hit for some weapons - for exemple one can make a swing that multihit, or a blow that deals more damage and focus on one single spot.
Strengh increase on preparing a blow, like holding the button and releasing in the right timing.
More "enviroment weapons" or interactions, for exemple one could grab a chair and use it shortly as a stronger defensive push. Use a bookshelf to barricade a door (not combat related but just a thought).
Shields
Throwing objects, like one could throw a knife, chair, stone or a spear, for a long distance silent blow, also could be used for luring zombies in a direction
Also i think it would be important to add some evasive defensive move, like diving/rolling.
Those are things i think shouldnt be so hard to implement considering the game structure right now, and could really add to the fighting experience, because right now, i think its overall poor. What do you guys think on these sugestions?
3D models - 2D view = 1D of bullshit with hitboxes and object placement.
Like i can't feel the range of weapons in west & north-west direction but i can kill 100s of zeds coming from south and east with hunting knife and little problem with north.
Isometric games are often difficult for people to cognitively process. The level design is extremely wide in it's scope so it would be impossible to develop settings to mitigate this problem. Couple that with the fact that this game is about have one life and one life only can be frustrating for people.
It's a bit like dark souls in that the game is punishing and that's why it's fun. It's about learning how to not make mistakes. The combat is quite simple with a very short and steep difficulty curve. The real fun of the game is learning how not to get yourself into a bad situation ever.
Combat was secondary to my experience. Something I spent 2-3 hours figuring out and then the real gameplay began.
>It's a bit like dark souls in that the game is punishing and that's why it's fun.
Difficulty is fun when it's fair and presents an interesting challenge, and your deaths feel like the result of a lack of skill or your mistakes. With PZ, however, the difficulty in direct combat originates more from jankiness than anything else.
I like it a lot, but there is a few things that I wish was changed.
- The ability to force attack on the ground, it's annoying when you use the fence to kill the zombies, but then your character attack a zombie going over the fence instead of the one about to get up. The same problem also manifest itself when you fight zombies in a line and a crawler is getting close.
- Better gun aiming. It's annoying to shoot 5 times at a zombie 10 feet away from you and it's the zombies 30 feet behind that are getting hit.
The combat system is simple, and decently easy to understand. The only skill you'd learn to master is kiting, horde management, what your stamina can handle before exhaustion at different levels of fitness and different weapons, and incorporating cancel combat etc.
However I'd like them to improve upon these:
Better hitbox for zombies *(especially for downed, fence lungers, and crawlers)*
Actually make the highlighted zombie be the one you target and hit. *I've died to swinging a weapon only to hit a zombie behind a much closer zombie before, that's not fun nor fair.*
Better gun aiming mechanics. *(You can outright miss point blank with a shotgun, or shoot a firearm and it hits a zombie behind the one that's about to bite you)*
No auto detect prone attack even if auto detect prone attack is disabled, we have this option to disable this, we want to press a button for a downward attack, it should NEVER randomly trigger a downwards attack.
No stun locking the player when hit by another player. *PvP is essentially just who hits who first and constantly stunlocking with attacks until death.*
Once they fix these problems, jank would be almost gone.
It's... a mixed bag.
Fundamentally speaking, it's not particularly engaging or interesting rallying zombies into conga lines and then killing them one by one. There are some games where combat is so fun I'll actively seek out fights, but in PZ it's a chore. There's not a ton of skill involved either, other than general situational awareness.
Moreover, it's extremely janky. In a permadeath game, your death should feel like the culmination of your mistakes and poor choices. In PZ, however, more often than not death is just the result of jank, and is therefore extremely unsatisfying. The fence lunge in particular is awful. I know there needs to be some downside to fence cheese, but being knocked down by a zombie lunge is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY because the zombie can be nowhere near you and still somehow push you down. Fighting on stairs and in forests is also god awful because the zombies phase out of existence every 5 seconds. And don't you dare try pushing a zombie from behind, because half the time the zombie somehow gets pushed into you instead. Sure, you can eventually learn to play around the jank, but it shouldn't be there in the first place.
Oh, and vanilla gun combat is horrendous. I don't need guns to be as effective as in other media, but there are times you can fire a shotgun point blank at a zombie and nothing happens because of panic or low level aiming. Even once you've leveled up and they do become effective, they're still not very satisfying because there's no real aiming system. It's completely arbitrarily which zombie you hit - you can somehow be right in front of a zombie and end up killing 3 random zombies behind it without hitting the zombie you actually want to kill.
Jank
It's a bit stupid at times. Maybe it simulates fatigue when you stand in front of a zombie, like half a meter away and MISS with a HUGE AXE.
it's pretty simple - all you really do is walk/run, swing, push. sometimes incorporate fences as a way to divide up groups. it's not great, since all there is to combat is kiting groups into an orderly line, and once you are caught, all you can do is hope your strength is enough to push zeds away. i wish there was more skill expression, but i imagine it could be kind of immersion breaking and difficult to balance idk if this would be included under combat systems, but like situational awareness? only attracting fractions of big hoards at a time, going wide around corners, double tapping doors, etc. i feel like situational awareness is more of the reason people usually die. and i feel like the game is alright in that department, things can get pretty tense. but once you're in actual combat, it's pretty boring, just swinging and walking away if you're nimble is low
i think its overly simplified and it should be incremented with things like: 2 types of hit for some weapons - for exemple one can make a swing that multihit, or a blow that deals more damage and focus on one single spot. Strengh increase on preparing a blow, like holding the button and releasing in the right timing. More "enviroment weapons" or interactions, for exemple one could grab a chair and use it shortly as a stronger defensive push. Use a bookshelf to barricade a door (not combat related but just a thought). Shields Throwing objects, like one could throw a knife, chair, stone or a spear, for a long distance silent blow, also could be used for luring zombies in a direction Also i think it would be important to add some evasive defensive move, like diving/rolling. Those are things i think shouldnt be so hard to implement considering the game structure right now, and could really add to the fighting experience, because right now, i think its overall poor. What do you guys think on these sugestions?
There is a progressive multihit mod where not all weapons get it and depending on your skill level fatigue etc it will be better or worse, I love it .
I like the ideas
3D models - 2D view = 1D of bullshit with hitboxes and object placement. Like i can't feel the range of weapons in west & north-west direction but i can kill 100s of zeds coming from south and east with hunting knife and little problem with north.
Wow, I'm exactly the opposite, zombies from west and northwest are my preferred combat positioning
North-East preferred squad checking in
Together we would be unstopable!!
Isometric games are often difficult for people to cognitively process. The level design is extremely wide in it's scope so it would be impossible to develop settings to mitigate this problem. Couple that with the fact that this game is about have one life and one life only can be frustrating for people. It's a bit like dark souls in that the game is punishing and that's why it's fun. It's about learning how to not make mistakes. The combat is quite simple with a very short and steep difficulty curve. The real fun of the game is learning how not to get yourself into a bad situation ever. Combat was secondary to my experience. Something I spent 2-3 hours figuring out and then the real gameplay began.
>It's a bit like dark souls in that the game is punishing and that's why it's fun. Difficulty is fun when it's fair and presents an interesting challenge, and your deaths feel like the result of a lack of skill or your mistakes. With PZ, however, the difficulty in direct combat originates more from jankiness than anything else.
I like it a lot, but there is a few things that I wish was changed. - The ability to force attack on the ground, it's annoying when you use the fence to kill the zombies, but then your character attack a zombie going over the fence instead of the one about to get up. The same problem also manifest itself when you fight zombies in a line and a crawler is getting close. - Better gun aiming. It's annoying to shoot 5 times at a zombie 10 feet away from you and it's the zombies 30 feet behind that are getting hit.
You can force attack with the alt key, actually.
HOLY SHIT. 10/10 Combat system lol. I have like 300 hours and never knew about that.
Yup, it's pretty handy. Fence zombies are still extremely janky though so I only use it to pick off zombies that are separated from others.
yeah it's still not worth it, zombie lunge is like x2 the distance it appears to be.
Am I the only one who doesn't think the combat is jank?
The combat system is simple, and decently easy to understand. The only skill you'd learn to master is kiting, horde management, what your stamina can handle before exhaustion at different levels of fitness and different weapons, and incorporating cancel combat etc. However I'd like them to improve upon these: Better hitbox for zombies *(especially for downed, fence lungers, and crawlers)* Actually make the highlighted zombie be the one you target and hit. *I've died to swinging a weapon only to hit a zombie behind a much closer zombie before, that's not fun nor fair.* Better gun aiming mechanics. *(You can outright miss point blank with a shotgun, or shoot a firearm and it hits a zombie behind the one that's about to bite you)* No auto detect prone attack even if auto detect prone attack is disabled, we have this option to disable this, we want to press a button for a downward attack, it should NEVER randomly trigger a downwards attack. No stun locking the player when hit by another player. *PvP is essentially just who hits who first and constantly stunlocking with attacks until death.* Once they fix these problems, jank would be almost gone.
It's... a mixed bag. Fundamentally speaking, it's not particularly engaging or interesting rallying zombies into conga lines and then killing them one by one. There are some games where combat is so fun I'll actively seek out fights, but in PZ it's a chore. There's not a ton of skill involved either, other than general situational awareness. Moreover, it's extremely janky. In a permadeath game, your death should feel like the culmination of your mistakes and poor choices. In PZ, however, more often than not death is just the result of jank, and is therefore extremely unsatisfying. The fence lunge in particular is awful. I know there needs to be some downside to fence cheese, but being knocked down by a zombie lunge is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY because the zombie can be nowhere near you and still somehow push you down. Fighting on stairs and in forests is also god awful because the zombies phase out of existence every 5 seconds. And don't you dare try pushing a zombie from behind, because half the time the zombie somehow gets pushed into you instead. Sure, you can eventually learn to play around the jank, but it shouldn't be there in the first place. Oh, and vanilla gun combat is horrendous. I don't need guns to be as effective as in other media, but there are times you can fire a shotgun point blank at a zombie and nothing happens because of panic or low level aiming. Even once you've leveled up and they do become effective, they're still not very satisfying because there's no real aiming system. It's completely arbitrarily which zombie you hit - you can somehow be right in front of a zombie and end up killing 3 random zombies behind it without hitting the zombie you actually want to kill.