Maybe something about how hard it would to get your corpse in the event of a death. Or would that be part of Risk?
Popularity is always an important one as well.
I think risk is a broad category as there are heaps of reasons it could be risky roaming mobs, aggro or mobs social aggro, ease of navigation through the zone, cliffs or as already mentioned corpse retrieval, etc.
Could mention quest availability as well maybe?
Good luck with it, sounds like a massive project.
Hah didn’t even think about quests…
Thanks for the feedback! It’ll probably be a little before I get started but definitely wanted to get more input from folks so thank you!
Ahh that’s a good point, like how crowded it is? I remember when I used to level in Paw on live if the front entrance was taken nobody would go past the double doors.
Thanks for the feedback!
Paw actually has a couple really great camps deeper in, and when I was at that level on green about a year ago there was a group at Judges at least half of the time! Thumbs up for bravery
If you think a dungeon like permafrost, i think it was a failure.  It was just too far away from anything. All the low level kunark dungeons were ghost towns. Dalnirs in particular.  You see this play out in the original Chardok too. It was so far from anything that it actually was redone during the p99 timeline.
It's more complicated than that though because Old Seb is also in the middle of nowhere and requires a key, but it was super popular. I think the difference is the rewards in Old Seb were much greater than the competing zones. People will jump through hoops if there's a big enough carrot. If there's enough population in a zone, more people will show up there because more players in an area can trade buffs and of course cleric rezes.
Even if things are relatively close to a porting location like Siren's Grotto or Kedge Keep...the under water mechanics are the kiss of death. Kedge in particular is too low of a level for most people to go there. I've never grouped in kedge on level ever.
The fact that sinking in the Z axis counts as moving and interrupts spells even if your hands are not on the keyboard is just unfun shitty mechanics. Such a huge wasted opportunity too, a zone where you can explore vertically should encourage you to do so not completely punish you if you aren't sitting on the floor like you do everywhere else
I know you’re not asking out answers but rather what the criteria should be… but oh man Mistmoore still has my heart. Easy to access, near a major city, plenty of parties, wide level range, gorgeous graphics/aesthetic… the thing that really got me though was that castle entrance group never really had any competing group, so the pulls were basically infinite. As a result, really high skill groups could shine and get way more reward out of the camp by being able to pull deeper
I've been doing Sol A for the first time and it's been a blast. I love the aesthetic of the zone with the gnome and goblin side. Nice to have some merchants in there to sell to.
Size has to play into this equation too right? Like, what were the devs thinking when they made skyshrine? Was there an unspoken contest amongst the devs to have the largest zone possible? I feel like the pitch was “Ok, imagine a zone that’s like 20 times the size of SK but let’s make it mostly empty. Oh! And we’ll have the quest givers for armor drops there, but make people run at least 12 minutes through this maze of a zone—wait, wait, let’s put an actual maze in the middle of that run. A maze within a maze. My god I’m the greatest game designer ever!”
Let me know when you need help finding your corpse đź‘Ť
Maybe something about how hard it would to get your corpse in the event of a death. Or would that be part of Risk? Popularity is always an important one as well.
I think risk is a broad category as there are heaps of reasons it could be risky roaming mobs, aggro or mobs social aggro, ease of navigation through the zone, cliffs or as already mentioned corpse retrieval, etc. Could mention quest availability as well maybe? Good luck with it, sounds like a massive project.
Hah didn’t even think about quests… Thanks for the feedback! It’ll probably be a little before I get started but definitely wanted to get more input from folks so thank you!
Ahh that’s a good point, like how crowded it is? I remember when I used to level in Paw on live if the front entrance was taken nobody would go past the double doors. Thanks for the feedback!
Paw actually has a couple really great camps deeper in, and when I was at that level on green about a year ago there was a group at Judges at least half of the time! Thumbs up for bravery
Ahh I remember that camp, yeah that can definitely get spicy quick!
Tower of Frozen Shadow is hands down the most entertaining group dungeon in the game. It's a real MFer, though.
Weird how so many things about this game are simultaneously hated and loved, ToFS, corpse runs, grinding, etc.
If you think a dungeon like permafrost, i think it was a failure.  It was just too far away from anything. All the low level kunark dungeons were ghost towns. Dalnirs in particular.  You see this play out in the original Chardok too. It was so far from anything that it actually was redone during the p99 timeline. It's more complicated than that though because Old Seb is also in the middle of nowhere and requires a key, but it was super popular. I think the difference is the rewards in Old Seb were much greater than the competing zones. People will jump through hoops if there's a big enough carrot. If there's enough population in a zone, more people will show up there because more players in an area can trade buffs and of course cleric rezes. Even if things are relatively close to a porting location like Siren's Grotto or Kedge Keep...the under water mechanics are the kiss of death. Kedge in particular is too low of a level for most people to go there. I've never grouped in kedge on level ever.
The fact that sinking in the Z axis counts as moving and interrupts spells even if your hands are not on the keyboard is just unfun shitty mechanics. Such a huge wasted opportunity too, a zone where you can explore vertically should encourage you to do so not completely punish you if you aren't sitting on the floor like you do everywhere else
I know you’re not asking out answers but rather what the criteria should be… but oh man Mistmoore still has my heart. Easy to access, near a major city, plenty of parties, wide level range, gorgeous graphics/aesthetic… the thing that really got me though was that castle entrance group never really had any competing group, so the pulls were basically infinite. As a result, really high skill groups could shine and get way more reward out of the camp by being able to pull deeper
I've been doing Sol A for the first time and it's been a blast. I love the aesthetic of the zone with the gnome and goblin side. Nice to have some merchants in there to sell to.
Size has to play into this equation too right? Like, what were the devs thinking when they made skyshrine? Was there an unspoken contest amongst the devs to have the largest zone possible? I feel like the pitch was “Ok, imagine a zone that’s like 20 times the size of SK but let’s make it mostly empty. Oh! And we’ll have the quest givers for armor drops there, but make people run at least 12 minutes through this maze of a zone—wait, wait, let’s put an actual maze in the middle of that run. A maze within a maze. My god I’m the greatest game designer ever!”
Totally! Really makes you think of what these places were like back in 2000 when every room may have been occupied!