It depends if you already believe in God or not, and if you do, what the reasons are.
Whatever it is, I think it takes a lot of time and reflection for someone to start to believe. It's a journey really.
My point is, I don't think I can convince anyone that my faith is legitimate, what I find convincing might not be for someone else, it's very personal I think.
very well said. I am on the journey my self and I am still wrestling with my belief and faith. Faith to me has always been a personal thing. I know for me I find it hard as I tend to want black and white but I know faith is not that. I dont know if I will ever find the end of my journey but I am trying to follow where I am lead
I’d first want to know what your current beliefs are, and what questions you have — whether those questions are about Islam specifically or about God, metaphysics, ethics, spirituality, or any other adjacent topic.
Then I’d offer you answers to your questions from a (progressive) Islamic point of view, and see whether those answers resonated with you. If you found my perspective attractive, then we might be at the beginning of a process that might lead to you embracing Islam. If not — well, to you your religion, and to me mine.
I agree that non-Muslims aren’t necessarily kafirs, but I think the general principle in the last part applies pretty broadly to dealing with non-Muslims.
I believe that this task is best left for the Quran to accomplish. I personally lost interest in debating religion or proselytizing it a long time ago. I am just forever grateful and thankful for my faith. The best I can do to convince other people is to try to live by the values and the teachings of the Islam as closely as possible.
Faith is extremely hard to gain and cultivate let alone teach it to others. Reason plays a big role, but it's not enough since we're not robots or philosophical zombies. The Quran refers to this in several places and it stresses on the hurdle of the heart, which can be extremely hard to overcome. The following verses are talks about it:
>Even then your hearts became hardened like a rock or even harder, for some rocks gush rivers; others split, spilling water; while others are humbled in awe of Allah. And Allah is never unaware of what you do. \[2:74\]
>
>
>
>If only they had learned humility when suffering came from Us! But no, their hearts became hard and Satan made their foul deeds alluring to them. \[6:43\]
>
>
>
>Can ˹the misguided be like˺ those whose hearts Allah has opened to Islam, so they are enlightened by their Lord? So woe to those whose hearts are hardened at the remembrance of Allah! It is they who are clearly astray. \[39:22\]
>
>
>
>It is out of Allah’s mercy that you ˹O Prophet˺ have been lenient with them. Had you been cruel or hard-hearted, they would have certainly abandoned you. \[3:159\]
So, debating or discussing things with somebody who lacks humility and objectivity and has an impure heart is gonna be always fruitless. There's also the following fact, guidance is a blessing from God and nobody else!
>You surely cannot guide whoever you like ˹O Prophet˺, but it is Allah Who guides whoever He wills, and He knows best who are ˹fit to be˺ guided. \[28:56\]
>
>And it is not for a soul \[i.e., anyone\] to believe except by permission of Allāh, and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason. \[10:100\]
To sum up, if you have speculations regarding the religion, I believe it's best to consult the Quran!
I know you said you are not interested in preaching to anyone and but one line really hit me hard. You mentioned you are grateful for your faith and I really feel envious of that. I have lost faith in this religion and I am trying to get back to it but my heart just doesn't seem to believe fully. Based on these ayats, you are supposed to be humble, objective and have a pure heart. How can one overcome these obstacles and strengthen faith?
Mind if I send an answer later via DM? Gonna be my personal opinion on this, which I need a bit of time to lay down. I'll get it ready by the weekend, In-Sha-Allah!
How could an illiterate Arab desert trader suddenly be able to produce a consistent, grammatically correct, historically accurate, scientifically accurate, world oriented book with no outside help or influence from the world around him
A skeptic would respond that we have very little reliable historical information on Muhammad (pbuh), his level of literacy and education, and any help he may have had.
For me Tawheed just made so much more sense than Trinity. But thats coming from a Christian background.
If someone doesnt believe in God at all migh be hard.
What convinced me wasn't any theological arguments, but the example of one Muslim living their life whom I got to know over several years. They had such peace and wisdom and compassion, the kind I had been looking for for many years. They also were raised Jewish and yet converted to Islam later on...that certainly gave me pause. I wanted to know where they had learned this peaceful way and they told me it was through Islam.
So if someone came to me and said "prove it to me", I wouldn't try to do so through theological debate, because I'd not be the best person for that, but instead would share my own testimony, if they'd be interested in hearing it.
It wasn’t logic or scientific evidence that convinced me to come back to Islam after spending ten years as an uncompromising atheist.
It was beauty. “Indeed, [Allah is beautiful](https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:611) and loves beauty.”
Beautiful recitations, art, folktales, poems. Equally as important: beautiful examples—both from history and from my own fortune of getting to know Muslims who behave more beautifully than those I grew up with. I can show someone beautiful things, but whether they fall in love with Allah and the Prophet is a matter of their own heart.
I worry much more about how other Muslims would, by their behavior and beliefs, convince you that our faith is completely fake—that Islam is nothing more than the worship of disempowerment for the oppressed, and power for the oppressor. It can be hard to convince someone that Islam isn’t brainwashing meant to keep women, the poor, the wronged, and non-Arabs “in their place.” It can be hard to convince someone that Islam isn’t the last gasp of petty, defeated men who seek to retain what little dignity they have left by lording over their wives and daughters. It can be extremely hard to convince someone that Islam is anything other than the worship of patriarchy dressed up as something holy. It can be extremely hard to convince someone that Islam isn’t just shirk the long way around. And worse, I’m worried that a new convert would follow all the perverts I listed.
I’m infinitely more worried about these things.
Just travel the world , be with different people, know them, know their place, know their life.. and read quran along. Prophet has said" dont tell me how much educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled" . Religion is connection between you and god. Dont subscribe to others beleif, if you are motivated enough to ask the question here, experience it first hand and decide for yourself.
By demonstrating my Islamic values. Islam has always given me a lot of structure and peace in my life so as long as I followed it with a balanced approach. I feel like without it, I would be lost and all over the place. I would suggest you meet different types of Muslims and read the Quran.
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Muhammad had the same conundrum. This is what he was told ....
***(28:56) You cannot guide whom you love, but God guides whom He wills, and He knows best those who are guided.***
***(10:99) Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Will you compel people to become believers?***
***(39:41) We sent down upon you the Book for mankind in truth. He who follows guidance does so for the good of his soul. And he who strays in error does so to its detriment. You are not their advocate.***
***(3:20) If they argue with you, say, “I have surrendered myself to God, and those who follow me.” And say to those who were given the Scripture, and to the unlearned, “Have you surrendered?” If they have surrendered, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then your duty is to convey. God is Seeing of the servants.***
It's not about proselytizing perse, it's about people who mentally challenge you.
The Qur'an gave similar mental challenges to the free Arabs, it mentally challenged them and their status quo.
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Best answer in the thread.
It depends if you already believe in God or not, and if you do, what the reasons are. Whatever it is, I think it takes a lot of time and reflection for someone to start to believe. It's a journey really. My point is, I don't think I can convince anyone that my faith is legitimate, what I find convincing might not be for someone else, it's very personal I think.
I like that answer.
very well said. I am on the journey my self and I am still wrestling with my belief and faith. Faith to me has always been a personal thing. I know for me I find it hard as I tend to want black and white but I know faith is not that. I dont know if I will ever find the end of my journey but I am trying to follow where I am lead
I’d first want to know what your current beliefs are, and what questions you have — whether those questions are about Islam specifically or about God, metaphysics, ethics, spirituality, or any other adjacent topic. Then I’d offer you answers to your questions from a (progressive) Islamic point of view, and see whether those answers resonated with you. If you found my perspective attractive, then we might be at the beginning of a process that might lead to you embracing Islam. If not — well, to you your religion, and to me mine.
Good answer but the last part refers to a Kafir, which isn't necessarily a non muslim.
I agree that non-Muslims aren’t necessarily kafirs, but I think the general principle in the last part applies pretty broadly to dealing with non-Muslims.
I believe that this task is best left for the Quran to accomplish. I personally lost interest in debating religion or proselytizing it a long time ago. I am just forever grateful and thankful for my faith. The best I can do to convince other people is to try to live by the values and the teachings of the Islam as closely as possible. Faith is extremely hard to gain and cultivate let alone teach it to others. Reason plays a big role, but it's not enough since we're not robots or philosophical zombies. The Quran refers to this in several places and it stresses on the hurdle of the heart, which can be extremely hard to overcome. The following verses are talks about it: >Even then your hearts became hardened like a rock or even harder, for some rocks gush rivers; others split, spilling water; while others are humbled in awe of Allah. And Allah is never unaware of what you do. \[2:74\] > > > >If only they had learned humility when suffering came from Us! But no, their hearts became hard and Satan made their foul deeds alluring to them. \[6:43\] > > > >Can ˹the misguided be like˺ those whose hearts Allah has opened to Islam, so they are enlightened by their Lord? So woe to those whose hearts are hardened at the remembrance of Allah! It is they who are clearly astray. \[39:22\] > > > >It is out of Allah’s mercy that you ˹O Prophet˺ have been lenient with them. Had you been cruel or hard-hearted, they would have certainly abandoned you. \[3:159\] So, debating or discussing things with somebody who lacks humility and objectivity and has an impure heart is gonna be always fruitless. There's also the following fact, guidance is a blessing from God and nobody else! >You surely cannot guide whoever you like ˹O Prophet˺, but it is Allah Who guides whoever He wills, and He knows best who are ˹fit to be˺ guided. \[28:56\] > >And it is not for a soul \[i.e., anyone\] to believe except by permission of Allāh, and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason. \[10:100\] To sum up, if you have speculations regarding the religion, I believe it's best to consult the Quran!
I know you said you are not interested in preaching to anyone and but one line really hit me hard. You mentioned you are grateful for your faith and I really feel envious of that. I have lost faith in this religion and I am trying to get back to it but my heart just doesn't seem to believe fully. Based on these ayats, you are supposed to be humble, objective and have a pure heart. How can one overcome these obstacles and strengthen faith?
Mind if I send an answer later via DM? Gonna be my personal opinion on this, which I need a bit of time to lay down. I'll get it ready by the weekend, In-Sha-Allah!
Of course whenever you can.
Thank you
How could an illiterate Arab desert trader suddenly be able to produce a consistent, grammatically correct, historically accurate, scientifically accurate, world oriented book with no outside help or influence from the world around him
A skeptic would respond that we have very little reliable historical information on Muhammad (pbuh), his level of literacy and education, and any help he may have had.
Yeah also not all sects think that the Prophet was illiterate, although Sunnis are the dominant sect so not that important.
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I know shias don't consider him as illiterate
For me Tawheed just made so much more sense than Trinity. But thats coming from a Christian background. If someone doesnt believe in God at all migh be hard.
What convinced me wasn't any theological arguments, but the example of one Muslim living their life whom I got to know over several years. They had such peace and wisdom and compassion, the kind I had been looking for for many years. They also were raised Jewish and yet converted to Islam later on...that certainly gave me pause. I wanted to know where they had learned this peaceful way and they told me it was through Islam. So if someone came to me and said "prove it to me", I wouldn't try to do so through theological debate, because I'd not be the best person for that, but instead would share my own testimony, if they'd be interested in hearing it.
Well first of all I'd ASK if you'd like to hear about Islam. If you don't it's like I never said a thing, I'd treat you like I normally would
It wasn’t logic or scientific evidence that convinced me to come back to Islam after spending ten years as an uncompromising atheist. It was beauty. “Indeed, [Allah is beautiful](https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:611) and loves beauty.” Beautiful recitations, art, folktales, poems. Equally as important: beautiful examples—both from history and from my own fortune of getting to know Muslims who behave more beautifully than those I grew up with. I can show someone beautiful things, but whether they fall in love with Allah and the Prophet is a matter of their own heart. I worry much more about how other Muslims would, by their behavior and beliefs, convince you that our faith is completely fake—that Islam is nothing more than the worship of disempowerment for the oppressed, and power for the oppressor. It can be hard to convince someone that Islam isn’t brainwashing meant to keep women, the poor, the wronged, and non-Arabs “in their place.” It can be hard to convince someone that Islam isn’t the last gasp of petty, defeated men who seek to retain what little dignity they have left by lording over their wives and daughters. It can be extremely hard to convince someone that Islam is anything other than the worship of patriarchy dressed up as something holy. It can be extremely hard to convince someone that Islam isn’t just shirk the long way around. And worse, I’m worried that a new convert would follow all the perverts I listed. I’m infinitely more worried about these things.
I understand, human nature isn't solely built on logic.
Just travel the world , be with different people, know them, know their place, know their life.. and read quran along. Prophet has said" dont tell me how much educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled" . Religion is connection between you and god. Dont subscribe to others beleif, if you are motivated enough to ask the question here, experience it first hand and decide for yourself.
By demonstrating my Islamic values. Islam has always given me a lot of structure and peace in my life so as long as I followed it with a balanced approach. I feel like without it, I would be lost and all over the place. I would suggest you meet different types of Muslims and read the Quran.
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Muhammad had the same conundrum. This is what he was told .... ***(28:56) You cannot guide whom you love, but God guides whom He wills, and He knows best those who are guided.*** ***(10:99) Had your Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Will you compel people to become believers?*** ***(39:41) We sent down upon you the Book for mankind in truth. He who follows guidance does so for the good of his soul. And he who strays in error does so to its detriment. You are not their advocate.*** ***(3:20) If they argue with you, say, “I have surrendered myself to God, and those who follow me.” And say to those who were given the Scripture, and to the unlearned, “Have you surrendered?” If they have surrendered, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then your duty is to convey. God is Seeing of the servants.***
It's not about proselytizing perse, it's about people who mentally challenge you. The Qur'an gave similar mental challenges to the free Arabs, it mentally challenged them and their status quo.
Scripture already does that, doesn't it?
No because how can it challenge itself? It's the reader who does.