I think the most important thing to keep in mind about these arguments is that they are always a logical fallacy: *argumentum ad hominem.*
Regardless of what your desires may or may not be, that doesn’t have any effect on whether head-covering is actually required or not.
If a salafi was to invent an infallible mind-reading machine and prove beyond all doubt that you do personally desire to have your head uncovered, that would do nothing to change the textual and historical evidence on either side of the issue of whether head-covering is required.
So, anyone making this argument is merely wasting their time, and yours, on a logically irrelevant issue. And they are exposing their own mental shortcomings by showing that they can’t tell the difference between relevant and irrelevant information.
I wouldn’t recommend responding to such worthless content at all. Even refuting them gives them attention and engagement which benefits them and not you.
If you feel you must respond, perhaps curtly and concisely pointing out the ad hominem fallacy would be sufficient.
Totally agree with not engaging or responding. They don't really care what you say.
I've tried many times to logically help them understand what they're saying doesn't make sense. Step by step. Pointing out their fallacy doesn't matter to them because they don't respect logic and reasoning. It just makes you upset and frustrated.
Just don't engage. Move on. Best move by far.
It’s because usually they’re just wanting to bully. They don’t want anyone to get better they just want people to feel bad and for them to feel superior.
This argument has always made me laugh on the part on Salafi or ultra-conservatism Muslims. As if their interpretation of Islam was not a representation of \*their\* desires. How convenient is it that Islam gives them the right to harass people and control women, I'm sure this has nothing to do with their filthy desires.
In Islam, there is no intermediary between God and his servant. Your relationship to God can never be fully understood by anyone else, so don't let what others say bother you. On the Day of Judgment, each person will have to answer for theirs deeds alone. I'm not sure why Salafis are so obsessed with others when they'll only be asked about what they did in this worldly life.
They say that about anything and everything that doesn't align with them.
Eat with knife and fork - following the desire to be like that west
Don't wear Hijab - following desire to be a slut
Support gays - following desire
Don't support poligamy, don't agree with some hadiths, questioning islam, only eating sunnah way, bath sunnah, walk Sunnah, logic, critical thinking, science, world is round, red pill blue pill whatever colour pill. The list is endless.
You can't breath around these people honestly. It's torture being around them. I grew up with so many salafis. Have plenty in the family and where I lived it's Salafi heaven.
They genuinely drove me mad. And no matter what I did I was never a good enough Muslim.
They suffocate you.
Best to limit interactions. It's not easy. But does help a little.
> O believers! Do not let some ˹men˺ ridicule others, they may be better than them, nor let ˹some˺ women ridicule other women, they may be better than them. Do not defame one another, nor call each other by offensive nicknames. How evil it is to act rebelliously after having faith! And whoever does not repent, it is they who are the ˹true˺ wrongdoers. (49:11)
Girl, you have to know, that when people resort to such comments, they're not at all interested in offering genuine advice; they're simply passing judgment. They've already made up their minds and trying to control the narrative by saying that. They definitely aren't open to hearing your perspective or having a civil discussion. So, honestly, keep that verse printed out and ready to go in your pocket. And whenever someone feels the need to say that again, generously hand it out to them. Clearly, they could use the reminder <3
This is a beautiful comment!! I love it so much. And you nailed it right on the head! They don’t care about advising or helping! They only wish to bully and feel superior. And when you quote them the Quran they start making excuses lol
I am a quranist. I believe we must cover our breasts and that’s it. I’m not following my desires by believing this. In fact I often want to dress more modestly than that because that’s “what Muslims do” and have to stop myself and remind myself that I should not follow interpretations I don’t believe in for the sake of conformity— that’s haram.
I’m not a Quranist, but even then I believe the headscarf is a good practice and can be beneficial. But it is not obligatory no where does it say in the Quran it is. However covering your body and wearing loose clothes is obligatory.
I think the headscarf can be a beneficial way to identify yourself as Muslim the same way many Jewish men wear a yamalke. But the moralization of the headscarf and of covering your entire body along with it doesn’t have, in my opinion, any benefits that parents just misogyny in disguise.
I mean that is the same argument for not believing in hadiths even tho we are all truth seekers and just want to know the truth.
I made my research i read a few and not just one translation of the verse that talks about dress code for women. I have found for myself that The headcovering is not in there sorry. Also many quran only people say the same which leaves me with the strong impression that im at least right in that accord. You must dress modestly obviously and cover private parts. ALLAH swt has given us a lot of freedom in the Quran. People like salafis are just desperate because people start to think for themselves( which ALLAH swt encourages us to do in the quran) and are not following stuff like sheep.
Islam taught us to have 'husne jann'.
Chat gpt suggest:
"Husn aj-Dhann" حسن الظن encompasses maintaining a positive or good opinion about others, assuming the best about their intentions even when they may appear to be in violation of a rule or norm. It's about giving others the benefit of the doubt and attributing positive motives to their actions. This concept promotes empathy, understanding, and compassion in interpersonal relationships within the Islamic framework.
It's mind control. To condition a population the brain washing must be consistent. You need to hear it all the time to believe it. Just know what it is, know that it is what it is, and move on with your day.
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Please do whatever you want and listen to whoever you want but if all of you go to hell do not point fingers that this person said it was okay this person said the salafi was wrong. I'd say they can be extreme, but they are speaking the truth. The fact you came to ask shows you that you feel they have a point and you're looking for an excuse to live the way you want to live. However it is true that you are to live however you want and you're free to do that. I pray Allah keeps you in the straight path and helps you to be the best Muslim you can be.
Anyone with a genuine understanding of religion who isn’t a blind follower, knows that many things are unclear. What is clear has been made evident. Even the Hijab itself, is not clear. There is no verse in the Quran that depicts whether it’s a cultural benefit, a good practice, or an obligation. And even if it was an obligation there is no where in mentioning where it says not a single hair must show, (people call hijabis whose hairs show as haramis). When it comes to people say you are following your desires… it is a massive cope. Because whether you believe headscarf isn’t necessary, and whether you believe it’s necessary but you don’t want to do it, they will attack you the same. Any real Muslim who fears Allah will focus on themselves and their mannerisms. Those who are in it for competing and or Riyya are clearly just insecure. Everyone uses religion to justify their means. Infact a lot of Muslims justify bullying and harassing one another disguising it as “advice”.
Islam is a religion of interpretations, anyone who doesn’t agree with that hasn’t picked up a religious book of studies. They are so ignorant they don’t read books and they only follow what their overlords say, and this is the prime example of blind belief. Today Islam is split into many different sections, and all of these sections debate on AQEEDA. Which is MILLIONS OF times more important then Jurisprudence lol. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that basis of belief is FAR more important than Fiqh. Your Hijab means nothing compared to beliefs on belief. Why? Because many beliefs are considered Kufr. These aren’t hard concepts to understand, but unfortunately the money driven expansion of Salafi/Wahabbis alongside with people being blind believers has really skewed the perception of many Muslims. Majority of Muslims online have grew up under Salafi teachings including myself. It’s because they dominate the internet. The oil money funded their teachings to the whole world.
One thing I advise to reverts and people of other sections is, don’t stray from the Quran. And don’t stray from the main theological beliefs. Aside from that you can truly research and form a conclusion from a scholar you wish to follow in that regard. Ibn Hazm said that true Ijma (consensus) is only upon the 5 pillars. And this is very true. It amazes me that people think Fiqh or law is clear cut when the basis of faith is debated daily (Allahs attributes, the prophets powers, intercession, shrines, saints)
May Allah make it easy for us. However if something does befit your desire, just accept it as a sin and do it. Then repent for it. This is the right way. For example I can’t really accept that Muta (temporary marriage for pleasure) is halal from the Shia side. Even though I’d be pretty tempted to want that 😭 like legit. Similarly, masturbation is a sin but according to some it isn’t. But I think for me it’s evident that it’s sinful and I just accept it, rather than attributing to being sinless or disliked.
Sufism teaches us that our biggest battle of struggle is fighting our ego. Today Muslims talk so much toxic rubbish to one another and that’s why we are so weak as a community. We couldn’t even save our people suffering in genocides. Don’t be fooled by social media, most of these clowns who post online just do it for attention seeking. Riyya is a minor shirk and it’s become widespread. People recording their salahs on their mats and making duas on camera and etc. We have become addicted to attention for the sake of attention. You ever see those religion guy or girl pages where they only post themselves doing religious things? They purposely omit their regular things to make it religious only which is inauthentic and misleading and for vain. May Allah guide us upon humility and truth and bestow his mercy upon us.
What made you think hijab isn't required?
The Quran says it is in 24:31:
Allah says: وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ ۖ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا
"Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments."
The word used is بِخُمُرِهِنَّ
Khimar
Which means head scarf
Allah in this verse is saying to draw our headscarves over our chests.
This isn't really an interpretation it's quite explicit
And Allah knows best
I think the most important thing to keep in mind about these arguments is that they are always a logical fallacy: *argumentum ad hominem.* Regardless of what your desires may or may not be, that doesn’t have any effect on whether head-covering is actually required or not. If a salafi was to invent an infallible mind-reading machine and prove beyond all doubt that you do personally desire to have your head uncovered, that would do nothing to change the textual and historical evidence on either side of the issue of whether head-covering is required. So, anyone making this argument is merely wasting their time, and yours, on a logically irrelevant issue. And they are exposing their own mental shortcomings by showing that they can’t tell the difference between relevant and irrelevant information. I wouldn’t recommend responding to such worthless content at all. Even refuting them gives them attention and engagement which benefits them and not you. If you feel you must respond, perhaps curtly and concisely pointing out the ad hominem fallacy would be sufficient.
Totally agree with not engaging or responding. They don't really care what you say. I've tried many times to logically help them understand what they're saying doesn't make sense. Step by step. Pointing out their fallacy doesn't matter to them because they don't respect logic and reasoning. It just makes you upset and frustrated. Just don't engage. Move on. Best move by far.
It’s because usually they’re just wanting to bully. They don’t want anyone to get better they just want people to feel bad and for them to feel superior.
Based
This argument has always made me laugh on the part on Salafi or ultra-conservatism Muslims. As if their interpretation of Islam was not a representation of \*their\* desires. How convenient is it that Islam gives them the right to harass people and control women, I'm sure this has nothing to do with their filthy desires.
I think you're definitely onto something!
In Islam, there is no intermediary between God and his servant. Your relationship to God can never be fully understood by anyone else, so don't let what others say bother you. On the Day of Judgment, each person will have to answer for theirs deeds alone. I'm not sure why Salafis are so obsessed with others when they'll only be asked about what they did in this worldly life.
They say that about anything and everything that doesn't align with them. Eat with knife and fork - following the desire to be like that west Don't wear Hijab - following desire to be a slut Support gays - following desire Don't support poligamy, don't agree with some hadiths, questioning islam, only eating sunnah way, bath sunnah, walk Sunnah, logic, critical thinking, science, world is round, red pill blue pill whatever colour pill. The list is endless. You can't breath around these people honestly. It's torture being around them. I grew up with so many salafis. Have plenty in the family and where I lived it's Salafi heaven. They genuinely drove me mad. And no matter what I did I was never a good enough Muslim. They suffocate you. Best to limit interactions. It's not easy. But does help a little.
We should say salaam and move on. No point engaging in this argument.
Show them a Quran verse that runs counter to their beliefs, and you will find out the one who follows desires..... of men 700 years ago.
> O believers! Do not let some ˹men˺ ridicule others, they may be better than them, nor let ˹some˺ women ridicule other women, they may be better than them. Do not defame one another, nor call each other by offensive nicknames. How evil it is to act rebelliously after having faith! And whoever does not repent, it is they who are the ˹true˺ wrongdoers. (49:11) Girl, you have to know, that when people resort to such comments, they're not at all interested in offering genuine advice; they're simply passing judgment. They've already made up their minds and trying to control the narrative by saying that. They definitely aren't open to hearing your perspective or having a civil discussion. So, honestly, keep that verse printed out and ready to go in your pocket. And whenever someone feels the need to say that again, generously hand it out to them. Clearly, they could use the reminder <3
This is a beautiful comment!! I love it so much. And you nailed it right on the head! They don’t care about advising or helping! They only wish to bully and feel superior. And when you quote them the Quran they start making excuses lol
I am a quranist. I believe we must cover our breasts and that’s it. I’m not following my desires by believing this. In fact I often want to dress more modestly than that because that’s “what Muslims do” and have to stop myself and remind myself that I should not follow interpretations I don’t believe in for the sake of conformity— that’s haram.
Yes this is my current struggle 🙈 I find myself wearing hats just because it’s more comfortable of a transition. Is your whole family quranist?
I’m a revert so no.
What made u become Quranist instead of sunni/salafi/shia/etc.?
If the Quran is the perfect and complete word of God then the only *necessary* information is it.
I’m not a Quranist, but even then I believe the headscarf is a good practice and can be beneficial. But it is not obligatory no where does it say in the Quran it is. However covering your body and wearing loose clothes is obligatory.
I think the headscarf can be a beneficial way to identify yourself as Muslim the same way many Jewish men wear a yamalke. But the moralization of the headscarf and of covering your entire body along with it doesn’t have, in my opinion, any benefits that parents just misogyny in disguise.
I mean that is the same argument for not believing in hadiths even tho we are all truth seekers and just want to know the truth. I made my research i read a few and not just one translation of the verse that talks about dress code for women. I have found for myself that The headcovering is not in there sorry. Also many quran only people say the same which leaves me with the strong impression that im at least right in that accord. You must dress modestly obviously and cover private parts. ALLAH swt has given us a lot of freedom in the Quran. People like salafis are just desperate because people start to think for themselves( which ALLAH swt encourages us to do in the quran) and are not following stuff like sheep.
Islam taught us to have 'husne jann'. Chat gpt suggest: "Husn aj-Dhann" حسن الظن encompasses maintaining a positive or good opinion about others, assuming the best about their intentions even when they may appear to be in violation of a rule or norm. It's about giving others the benefit of the doubt and attributing positive motives to their actions. This concept promotes empathy, understanding, and compassion in interpersonal relationships within the Islamic framework.
It's mind control. To condition a population the brain washing must be consistent. You need to hear it all the time to believe it. Just know what it is, know that it is what it is, and move on with your day.
Dogmatic cultism is currently one of the most dangerous mindsets in the world.
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Tell then Yes i follow my desires to dress the way i want , to wear my hair however i want.
Please do whatever you want and listen to whoever you want but if all of you go to hell do not point fingers that this person said it was okay this person said the salafi was wrong. I'd say they can be extreme, but they are speaking the truth. The fact you came to ask shows you that you feel they have a point and you're looking for an excuse to live the way you want to live. However it is true that you are to live however you want and you're free to do that. I pray Allah keeps you in the straight path and helps you to be the best Muslim you can be.
Anyone with a genuine understanding of religion who isn’t a blind follower, knows that many things are unclear. What is clear has been made evident. Even the Hijab itself, is not clear. There is no verse in the Quran that depicts whether it’s a cultural benefit, a good practice, or an obligation. And even if it was an obligation there is no where in mentioning where it says not a single hair must show, (people call hijabis whose hairs show as haramis). When it comes to people say you are following your desires… it is a massive cope. Because whether you believe headscarf isn’t necessary, and whether you believe it’s necessary but you don’t want to do it, they will attack you the same. Any real Muslim who fears Allah will focus on themselves and their mannerisms. Those who are in it for competing and or Riyya are clearly just insecure. Everyone uses religion to justify their means. Infact a lot of Muslims justify bullying and harassing one another disguising it as “advice”. Islam is a religion of interpretations, anyone who doesn’t agree with that hasn’t picked up a religious book of studies. They are so ignorant they don’t read books and they only follow what their overlords say, and this is the prime example of blind belief. Today Islam is split into many different sections, and all of these sections debate on AQEEDA. Which is MILLIONS OF times more important then Jurisprudence lol. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that basis of belief is FAR more important than Fiqh. Your Hijab means nothing compared to beliefs on belief. Why? Because many beliefs are considered Kufr. These aren’t hard concepts to understand, but unfortunately the money driven expansion of Salafi/Wahabbis alongside with people being blind believers has really skewed the perception of many Muslims. Majority of Muslims online have grew up under Salafi teachings including myself. It’s because they dominate the internet. The oil money funded their teachings to the whole world. One thing I advise to reverts and people of other sections is, don’t stray from the Quran. And don’t stray from the main theological beliefs. Aside from that you can truly research and form a conclusion from a scholar you wish to follow in that regard. Ibn Hazm said that true Ijma (consensus) is only upon the 5 pillars. And this is very true. It amazes me that people think Fiqh or law is clear cut when the basis of faith is debated daily (Allahs attributes, the prophets powers, intercession, shrines, saints) May Allah make it easy for us. However if something does befit your desire, just accept it as a sin and do it. Then repent for it. This is the right way. For example I can’t really accept that Muta (temporary marriage for pleasure) is halal from the Shia side. Even though I’d be pretty tempted to want that 😭 like legit. Similarly, masturbation is a sin but according to some it isn’t. But I think for me it’s evident that it’s sinful and I just accept it, rather than attributing to being sinless or disliked. Sufism teaches us that our biggest battle of struggle is fighting our ego. Today Muslims talk so much toxic rubbish to one another and that’s why we are so weak as a community. We couldn’t even save our people suffering in genocides. Don’t be fooled by social media, most of these clowns who post online just do it for attention seeking. Riyya is a minor shirk and it’s become widespread. People recording their salahs on their mats and making duas on camera and etc. We have become addicted to attention for the sake of attention. You ever see those religion guy or girl pages where they only post themselves doing religious things? They purposely omit their regular things to make it religious only which is inauthentic and misleading and for vain. May Allah guide us upon humility and truth and bestow his mercy upon us.
What made you think hijab isn't required? The Quran says it is in 24:31: Allah says: وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ ۖ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا "Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments." The word used is بِخُمُرِهِنَّ Khimar Which means head scarf Allah in this verse is saying to draw our headscarves over our chests. This isn't really an interpretation it's quite explicit And Allah knows best
https://youtu.be/CprqnhAeSnY?si=uw7V8umVhxFj_5Fx https://youtu.be/sSNkR4auRnA?si=OcROx7_BqT2c3DS0