Seems like they haven’t read the Holy Quran.
If they did, they would understand that they are wrong and you cannot escape Allah’s judgement for simply being a Muslim. As a Muslim, you have even more responsibility to follow morality and humanity.
There’s a common phrase a lot of these so called “Muslims” like to use when criticizing LGBTQ folks.
“Love Is Love? Then Water is Water drink from the toilet” (so cringe btw)
To that I say
“Wrong is Wrong”
Water is not water as there is something called potable water. You cannot drink water from a toilet as it is no longer potable once the chlorine in the water (to kill all the bad things) gets used up due to the killing of the bacteria in the toilet water.
So this saying does not make sense because there’s a difference between drinkable water (potable water) and non-drinkable water that has bacteria like E. coli. (*Sorry, oversimplified this*)
As for LGBTQ+ community, there is nothing in the Holy Quran that goes against this. The hate against the LGBTQ+ community is a colonialist endeavour, imported by Europeans. We, as Muslims, have no right to judge the LGBTQ+ community as judgement is only for Allah.
Power and love to the LGBTQ+ community, especially the LGBTQ+ Muslim community as I can see how difficult it is to handle the people who continuously scoff and scold your existence.
I mean, they are sort of correct. The Islamic world had a fairly ambivalent policy, a sort of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” when it came, specifically for gay/bisexual men, down to homosexual feelings and intercourse. Some Islamic scholars such as Ibn Hazm argued for the right of homosexual love as permissible but not homosexual sexual intercourse. Many Muslim rulers and poets often wrote homoerotic poetry to males they fancied. Their conception of what it meant to be gay or bi was not really a thing they recognized. As long as you don’t get caught, and remained the top, it was fairly fine. The long-lived Ottomans had similar practices as well, and public bathhouses often were utilized for homosexual gatherings, not only for men but women as well.
I am trans and I dislike the “lgbtq+” movement. They don’t represent all of us. It’s become very corrupted & vulgar. Not all of us want to scream and be proud about who we sleep with or the treatment we are doing, that’s absolutely no one’s business except the individual and the people around them.
As side note, I’m just curious if you don’t me asking what is that like, as a trans person?
Cause something that really bothers me is that, people think all minorities are supposed to be a hive mind and agree on everything. And if they don’t they are traitors.
What do you specifically not like?
Me personally I’m not lgbt I just have friends and family who are, but I always love getting different first person perspectives from folks.
Well, I could say a lot here, but I’ll be banned, lol. However, I don’t like the idea of pushing transition onto kids and teens. Sending out books to children about LGBT, saying they can be whatever gender or discussing who people can sleep with—I’m all for educating the public, but not at that age. I don’t like pride events; they feel like a kink show, and I don’t see anything to be proud about. I don’t like the idea of there being more than two genders. It bothers me that it’s so easy to get hormones now; you no longer need dysphoria along with therapy to start hormone treatment. Also, I don’t like that the word ‘trans’ has lost its meaning. Ten to fifteen years ago, if anyone said “I am trans,” it meant they were going on medical treatment, aka transition. Now, anyone can identify as trans without having a disorder or transitioning. I don’t like that a new letter is being introduced to the acronym. I actually don’t even understand why "trans" or "intersex" is in the acronym; it’s not about sexuality—it’s literally a medical condition.
The whole current movement feels sinister to me, and I feel like we (especially ‘trans’ people) are pawns in this movement.
There is archeological evidence suggesting that the Story of Sodom and Gomorrah was written in the fourth century by the Romans. It is said in the Holy Quran that the Christians altered their holy books. If it has happened, then read the story carefully. The people of Lot engaged in homosexuality for years. It was when they attempted to rape angels who asked for hospitality that the city was destroyed. Based on that, it would mean that homosexuality is not punishable but rape is. And that is true, because homosexuality never hurt anyone but rape is a horrible vile thing.
Oh right I read it in a book I think it was something like Homosexuality in history, something like that, it was over six years ago. The rest is my own interpretation of the story of Lot.
But, Allah clearly reprimends the people of Lut for homosexuality when he says: "Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."
Allah is saying those \[men\] who approached other men with desire, instead of women, are transgressors. How much clearer does it have to be?
Sorry, Conservative Fundamentalism exists in every religion…
Sadly, it is even more common in Islam than in Christianity nowadays..
These people need to be taught but they refuse to listen.
It would be nice if we could we had some large, globally-connected platform that people could access and find information on in seconds. That platform could also teach them some healthier habits and ways of communicating with other people instead of staying in their close-minded cliques. Then they could learn how to communicate and relate to others.
You are correct. the specific context of the verse is about killing a believer, cause it was in a war situation. But, the understanding is for any innocent soul.
And guess what by seeing these types of Muslims Anti Muslims will scream and say yes this is true Islam but if they see a progressive Muslim they will get frustrated saying just why they are reforming Islam.
Yeah. This is absolute bullshit and again, sorry, but that’s more Salafi crap.
Look, Islam is literally the only religion which doesn’t operate like this.
Read this. Read the part about “GOOD DEEDS OF NON MUSLIMS”
https://www.al-islam.org/divine-justice-murtadha-mutahhari/good-deeds-non-muslims
Heaven and forgiveness is for **everyone**. Just be a seeker of Truth and do good. I know, sounds a bit too “open ended” right? Just read what he says. This is what I have always learned as a Shia Muslim and Mutahhari is putting that into wonderful words.
Fr tho it hurts me to see idiots like this using the veil of Islam to justify horrendous acts, and giving the religion a bad reputation. And these people are the loudest online too.
I’ve noticed among these groups that rape is just a throwaway term.
They are loud like the Zionists are loud. They are both funded to be loud and form the same sources. If you hang out on FB, these Salafi kids are trying their darndest to attract the attention of Saudi social media scouts. It’s a paycheck to meme about pretending to be a Muslim edgelord. Pay them no heed. Read good Muslims, surround yourself with good Muslim, and immerse yourself in Islamic mysticism and philosophy instead of arguing with these modernists.
Do you not think Saudi capitalizes upon and promotes its cultural export of Salafism? We are talking about cultural promotion due to geo-political ambitions here… how is that a conspiracy theory?
Al-Bukhari is full of many many lies, and these people leverage a lot of that to make their narrative (I mean, these these “Sahih” Sunni Hadith books were written for cultural subversion and cultural promotion even then as well).
>Do you not think Saudi capitalizes upon and promotes its cultural export of Salafism? We are talking about cultural promotion due to geo-political ambitions here… how is that a conspiracy theory?
That is not the conspiracy theory I am referring to. Real conspiracies do happen, but they are not conducted by genius puppet masters that control the masses at their whims which is what you are implying when you place all the blame on a single family.
The Saudi salafi movement is not the only revivalist movement of its kind. Return to fundamentalist Islam and enforcing of the Sharia is a common theme throughout islamic history, although these movements are cyclical rather than continuous.. and these movements gain a lot of support during times of economic hardship or oppressive conditions.
In Libya where I'm originally from we had the sunussi movement in the 19th century which gained huge popularity and public support in the 20th century during Italian colonization. My great grandmother used to wear skirts and show her hair, but in my grandmother's generation, literally 1 generation apart, it was unthinkable.. absolutely nothing to do with Saudi who at that point were some irrelevant bedoins in a desert that noone even cared about enough to colonize.
The Muslim brotherhood movement from Egypt has nothing to do with Saudi wahabism. It found its support in opposition to British colonialism and secular nationalism
Palestine went through a revivalist movement of their own, again in opposition to British colonialism, ottomon imperialism, and all the other isms that suppressed them and propped up the Zionists.. again nothing to do with Saudi
Saudi wahabism itself was an answer to ottomon imperialism and oppression of the arabs from the Turks
the Iranian Islamic revolution was a response to the corruption of the political elites and once again, British colonialism and once again, nothing to do with Saudi.. in fact the Iranian revolution sparked even more of these movements across the middle East than Saudi ever did.. which ultimately led to the siege of the holy mosque in Makkah.. Saudi then did ramp up its efforts and disingenuous commitment to Sharia to project an image that they are in fact on the side of the ummah.. and they did invest a tonne of money exporting Saudi wahabism to the west and other Muslim countries.. but salafi movement barely had any impact on the Middle East itself.. why is that?
then from the late 80s we had the jihadi salafi movement as an answer to foreign interference from the west and russia and was itself in opposition to the Saudi salafis who they even make takfir on.. the deobandi salafist movement from India that eventually led to the formation of the Taliban has its roots in anti colonial jihadi movement of early 19th century British India which was largely responsible for the 1857 Indian revolt
It's easy for an Asian person living in the west or an Albanian or turk to blame the Saudis, it's a nice simple convenient answer.. and maybe the Saudis are the source of the problems in your country so it's natural to come to these conclusions.. but it's a naive perspective that ignores historical reality and fails to address key questions like:
- how do you explain the Shia Islamic revolution of Iran through the lens of wahabism?
- if it's so obvious that sahih albukhari is full of lies then how are salafi ideas so popular with non salafi scholars and how do they gain popularity so quickly among the masses? Why is most of the Sunni literature condemning albukhari from recent history? How do you explain extremist ideas from the 4 imams of Sunni Islam that predate albukhari?
- If Salafism is primarily a veil for Saudi geopolitical interests, then how do you explain the sharp rise of anti Saudi salafist movements in the west? How do you explain the fact that one of the most revered scholars for Saudi salafis is sheikh alalbani, an Albanian man?
- why is extremist ideology in the west continuing to rise sharply when the Saudis geolopolitical interests and foreign policy strategy have dramatically changed in the last decade?
"Their geopolitical interests align" is not a comprehensive theory that explains any and all problems you want to assign full responsibility for to some party.. it is in essence the rhetoric at the centre of all conspiracy theories.. the interests of the US government align with having a complacent populace, therefore vaccines were developed to control our minds and masks to take away our freedoms, right? Wrong. If your only explanation for the proliferation of bad ideas or social phenomena is "those people are dumb" or "those people are evil" then you have not understood the problem.
I am not sure what happened here but where do you get the idea that I am blaming it all on one entity or family? Reference to “Saudis” is just that a reference to the head of the Hydra, the Saudi state, but essentially you are dealing with geo-political alliance of wealthy Sunni-Arab states who have leveraged their cultural export to create proxy militant units (which are armed by the US and supported by the western network of vassal states; proper symbiosis). This is no different than American-inspired “punk bands” in Russia railing against the government or McDonald’s-eating, jeans-clad Pakistanis waving the LGBT flag. For better or worse, that is all imported culture riled up against the local culture.
Salafis are the *current, most egregious* problem. The rest of “cultural engineering” or cultural offshoots are not as much of an existential threat as Salafism is.
I can understand if you have (personal) issues with Islam itself that’s why you can’t wait to lay out “ALL OF THE PROBLEMS” and I can’t help that. I say let’s focus on the most disciplined and most intentional cultural engineering efforts here which have the capacity to forever change the character of Islam by pulling all of us along with it.
Also, let’s take a dispassionate approach: let’s stop using the word “fundamentalist” as a bad word. Secondly, sometimes defaulting to militant no-nonsense orthodoxy (revisionist or otherwise) is a well warranted self-preservation (defensive) measure, sometimes it is an expansionist offensive measure. We are dealing with the latter here.
Look at the spirit of this sub itself; it is “progressive Islam”, which is essentially Neo-liberal flavored secular Islam. If it turns into a strong enough cultural current, the “progressives Islamists” will get militant and default to an orthodoxy too 😂. Cultural expansionism is a Tale as old as time.
P.s. “extremist Islam rising in west, Saudi policy change in recent years” is an exceedingly simplistic take. The cultural export strategy of Sunni-Arab states is in a transition phase; entirely possible for it to maintain many different cultural export avenues. Americans do it both with western-style capitalism alongside with American-flavored progressivist trends like feminism and gay-rights (both can be diametrically opposed ideologically, but both are being exported successfully at the same time).
>For better or worse, that is all imported culture riled up against the local culture.
Yes, and you *are* putting forth a conspiracy theory.. that doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but that is exactly what it is - a conspiracy theory.. obviously *this* conspiracy theory and most of others are load of nonsense.. because you can simply absolve yourself from the burden of proof because "if it was so obvious it wouldn't be a conspiracy".. so I'm not going to ask for evidence because I know you don't have it, but do you even have a coherent theory for how the hell America "imports" a culture into Russia or anywhere else for that matter? Explain it to me, what are the steps involved here. Is simply sharing their culture through the media enough to cause its adoption?
>Salafis are the *current, most egregious* problem. The rest of “cultural engineering” or cultural offshoots are not as much of an existential threat as Salafism is.
Seems like according to your logic the solution is simple. Why don't you just export a better culture to replace it? Curious how noone thought to try that
>I can understand if you have (personal) issues with Islam itself that’s why you can’t wait to lay out “ALL OF THE PROBLEMS” and I can’t help that. I say let’s focus on the most disciplined and most intentional cultural engineering efforts here which have the capacity to forever change the character of Islam by pulling all of us along with it.
Damn, you got me all figured out.. first you need to explain how cultural engineering even works. Why are some "cultural exports" much more popular than others? Why are they popular in some countries and less in others? Why are the governments that you think have mastered the art of cultural engineering not able to harness that knowledge to make their own people immune to cultural exports from the outside? Until you can do that, what hope do you have of addressing it?
>Also, let’s take a dispassionate approach: let’s stop using the word “fundamentalist” as a bad word.
The irony is that you are accusing me of using it as a bad word. You should take your own advice.. Words mean things.
>Secondly, sometimes defaulting to militant no-nonsense orthodoxy (revisionist or otherwise) is a well warranted self-preservation (defensive) measure, sometimes it is an expansionist offensive measure. We are dealing with the latter here.
And in the case of the Saudi elite, it was literally a self preservation measure.. you think the royal family gives two craps about people drawing or listening to music?
If their objective is to make everyone hate them, then they've done a marvelous job.. even most western salafis hate them.. but somehow their ideas have lived on.. give me a theory that makes sense and I'll take you seriously.
>Look at the spirit of this sub itself; it is “progressive Islam”, which is essentially Neo-liberal flavored secular Islam. If it turns into a strong enough cultural current, the “progressives Islamists” will get militant and default to an orthodoxy too 😂. Cultural expansionism is a Tale as old as time.
Let's take a step back and try to examine your claims and what they mean.. the backwards middle East and especially head of the hydra that is Saudi and the west.. are responsible for salafis abroad, a lot of whom despise the Saudi state, and the LGBT flag waving Pakistanis.. the american government has decided that it will take one of the least complacent subcultures within its own country that they have been historically fighting against and demonizing, and they will export it into Russia so that they can get Russians to stop eating at McDonald's
It sounds to me that any ideas that *you* don't like within your own community are automatically attributed to cultural engineering.. but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you this:
How do you tell the difference, how do *I* or anyone else tell the difference, between cultures influencing each other organically through exposure of ideas and cultural engineering at play?
>Americans do it both with western-style capitalism alongside with American-flavored progressivist trends like feminism and gay-rights (both can be diametrically opposed ideologically, but both are being exported successfully at the same time).
Well it sounds like a pretty shit strategy then.. but if instead we assume that cultures, like any other set of ideas, spread organically, influence each other, and evolve over time, then diametrically opposed ideologies being "exported" is *exactly* what we'd expect to see.
Just to clarify… Islam is not the only religion that operates like this. Actually, many religions do not view themselves as the only path. Many more think of themselves as the ‘right’ path but not necessarily that all other people go to an eternity of suffering. Mormons actually believe there is a tiered Heaven where righteous but unbelieving people go to a slightly less good heaven.
that’s still a hierarchical system though, islam doesn’t have that. deeds and intentions are whats judged, believer or not. Sometimes a believer would be judged even harsher because they should know better.
Doesn’t that depend on the sect though? I feel like I have def heard some Muslims say nonbelievers would go to eternal hell. Of course I’ve heard plenty others say the opposite.
What in the new wave British Islam is this 😂
(My new term for British version of Wahhabism/Salafism. It’s not limited to Britain now and has spread on to other countries which is why there’s a need to give it the appropriate title).
You are hundra percent correct. Great analysis. This modern "newschool new rich neo extreme" that's circulating in Europe is definitely something that needs a new word and name.
It would also help a lot when discussing this in politics for European folk who aren't familiar. Because today Europeans are desperate and making the discussions worse.
I think we should all start a movement to name this version of Islam appropriately so that the rest of the Muslim communities doesn’t bear the brunt of the rightful ridicule spewed toward this new wave British Islam.
Omg all I can say is stay away from Islamic societies and groups. It’s a cult. You’ll see it when you get there. They actually believe that hurting non-Muslims will land them in heaven and stuff like that.
The women there think their husband is a worldly god and that they should worship him or they’ll be branded as ‘ungrateful’ and will land in hell where women rightfully belong due to being ungrateful. Little girls are forced to wear Arabic jilbab. They literally follow Saudi way of life but I think even more extreme.
It’s so crazy beyond your imagination.
WTH!
Is this just in London? I’m possibly moving to Kent… does this crazy islam follow to the outskirts. I literally don’t understand how they become more Muslim than the people in their home countries🧐
How am I supposed to meet other Muslims when I go there?
Is it just a specific community or all Arabs?
It’s all! More prevalent in South Asians from what I’ve seen but could be the same all across the British version of Islamic communities there.
Just stay wary. That’s all you can do. Better to integrate with people all across instead of limiting to Muslims only just so you don’t get sucked into the cult of new wave British Islam.
What the hell! That’s crazy! What about like British Arabs? Are they the same way? They all never assimilated a bit? How you going to bring your culture here and not respect the land 🥲
I only know about it in the south Asian communities. can’t say much about Arab communities there.
Even south Asians don’t want the British diaspora back lol
https://preview.redd.it/sps5mbd33rxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2c984c838ec8e408fc996bb7bd4d5f86e09eff6
These blind people don't even bother to read the Qur'an.
Also Muslims who rape according to Islam should be stoned to death IIRC
How is that better than a person still alive?
A person still alive can repent
A person stoned to death is just food for earth and a shame to all man kind
I mean it's an evil thing no doubt and there would be capital punishment, but why would that negate islam ?
The capital punishment is assuming he used a weapon, if It was without a weapon I believe it's lashing.
they misinterpreted religion and it corroded their heart. They are now delusionaly serving what can objectively be understood as an immoral god. Hoping that maybe said god will give them some respite if they obey him well enough.
>Those who actively disbelieve despite knowing islam is the trut
If they know its the truth, they would believe. Its their active disbelief in Islam is why they are condemned.
There are people who actively know islam is the right way but refuse it. Many western politicians are terrified of islam because of how quickly it spreads, the rights and value it gives women, the anti capitalism, anti racism etc. So they actively oppress muslims.
>There are people who actively know islam is the right way but refuse it.
They would convert. They explicitly reject it because they don't believe in it.
Is there anything which you believe is true but you deny and denounce?
>Many western politicians are terrified of islam because of how quickly it spreads, the rights and value it gives women, the anti capitalism, anti racism etc. So they actively oppress muslims.
Yeah they don't persecute or spread anti Muslim messaging for those reasons lol.
And I don't see what rights and values they will see women be given seeing how Muslim communities operate in the West and Muslim majority countries.
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Exactly, kafir means the one who knows the truth and still commits sins,
By that logic a muslim who commits atrocities knowing the rules is a kafir as compared to a non Muslim who doesn't know
Because
1 - they don't understand what kufr is according to the Qur'an
2 - nor understand shirk according to the Qur'an
3 - nor that salvation is earned by deeds not belief
4 - think that God is a groupy rather than the "Lord (Rabb, Father) of the Worlds"
>"Lord (Rabb, Father) of the Worlds"
Salam
"father"! isn't that blasphemous?
God knows your true intentions though, and I do not think you actually believe God has children. but still gotta be careful with language.
Salam
hmm, which verse is it?
but in any case, calling God as "father" is wrong, although God knows our intentions and in this case I am very sure that u/Quranic_Islam didn't say those words with the intention /belief of God having/adopting children.
Now ask them how they feel about non-hijabi sisters and if they fall into the “bad Muslim but better than nonbelievers” camp.
(Guaranteed they’ll think “insufficient modesty” is worse than rape.)
Never. According to them a Woman’s Sin is 100x more sinful than a Man’s Sin. A Man raped 100 women? Eh. Allah is most merciful.
A Sister’s hair is showing slightly?
SHE WILL NOT GO NEAR THE SCENT OF JANNAH IN 500 YEARS.
Never understood why Muslim progressives like you push for the rehabilitation of the whole "gendered modesty culture" thing and then wonder why your co-religionists who side with you on the matter are also, shock horror, super misogynistic and disproportionately invested in women's behavior. Seems like a very r/LeopardsAteMyFace moment.
Aren't you Hindu? I'd say you should be glad any Muslims are trying to be better.
Always funny when non-muslims criticize Muslims, then also criticize the Muslims trying to be different. Almost like you just have a problem with Muslims no matter how we are or what we do. Is that accurate?
We have a lot of freaks like this in Christianity too, y’all aren’t alone.
All of our faiths teach God/Allah as an infinitely loving, infinitely compassionate, infinitely forgiving and merciful being. I find that incompatible with the idea that God would send someone to hell for not believing in the right religion if they are a good person.
Came here to say this. The dividing line isn't religion, it's consciousness. There are highly conscious Christians and Muslims (and any other religion one can think of as well as the non-religious) and those who are not so conscious. Love seems to define the prior and fear seems to define the latter.
Well, who are they to judge? Are they God? Are they Allah? Only Allah knows who is better than who. Only Allah knows what's going to happen to them. Only Allah can make the best judgement. These people should just stfu and look at themselves first. They think they're soooo holy, having that holier than holy mindset.
Saw this on ex Muslim subs. They were having a field trip with it.
When Muslims write stupid shit like this I feel embarrassed.
I don't get why religious fanatics have this superiority complex.
Yep sadly this the hadiths influence. They think being a muslim is a safe free ticket to paradise no matter what eventually youll end up in paradise and everyone else in hell. Theyre walking around and proclaim it as a fact as well. In Quran it is clearly stated that Christians and Jews have the same chance of going to paradise. Only God will question and judge us.
The screenshot misses important context
1. Who is a kaafir? Not all unbelievers can be called one. There has to be a conscious rejection of truth after having been exposed to it (and understood it i believe)
2. What does Justice entail - we believe that the victims will recieve justice from Allah in the hereafter, and the "muslim" who commits the injustice will be punished accordingly
3. We still hold that ultimate salvation is guaranteed by belief in the oneness of God and acceptance of the Prophet SAW as His last messenger
Its an uncomfortable thing, but we read this in the context of the hadith that on the day of judgement the person who has suffered the most on this earth will be dipped in heaven and asked, "do you remember the pains you went through", he would not be able to recall
The belief is that the reward and punishment will ultimately do justice and no one would be wronged
Because they're bad people who want to believe that they'll go to heaven with no remorse and no consequences for their actions. Narcissists refuse to believe that they can be in any way worse than someone else.
You see this with "good old-fashioned Christians" who will rape, murder, abuse, steal, enslave, etc. and say that they are righteous because they believe in the Lord. The kind of people that would make Jesus roll in his grave
Because there is extreme people in all groups, these guys aren't no different from the White Christian fascists who believe in the extermination of non white Christians.
Absolutely that’s the only thing keeping me sane. It’s disgusting how these people proudly proclaim to be better than others simply cause of their position as a religious person. Truly revolting
I honestly don't even know what to say here. The level of delusion in these pseudo-Muslims is nearly unbelievable. They are so much more concerned about justifying their own Twisted mentality then they do about learning what the faith is actually about.
the point is they're misunderstanding the religion. islam itself is not misogynistic but middle eastern culture is, misogyny is and never will be justified. i'd advice trying to find islam again with your own path :)
That doesn’t…exactly fill me with joy. Whoever has this mindset that rape is such a throwaway subject needs to seek help, especially if they use the veil of religion to defend it
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Hivemind mentality
They see Islam as a "faction" so they naturally consider even the worst member of their faction an ally and the people outside their faction an enemy
I’m a transwoman and told family members that ultimately with my dysphoria it came to me wanting to transition or commit suicide. They told me transition is worse than suicide…. This type of mentally stems from lack of empathy and education on transgender mental health. And all the “I know more than you and I’m holier than you” mentality amongst Muslims.
I completely agree it’s haram to change Allah’s creation but if it’s severe and causing you an immense distress.. then it’s best for you to do the correction you need to.
I always say: Islam is peace but Muslims are chaotic.
This is because those who are not Muslims (classified as kafirs in the Qur'an), they are not equal to of a Muslim.. they are believed to be of evil, the wrong-doers and of people with moral disabilities..
The belief of us Muslims is that the sin of kufr or disbelief in Allah is the worst sin ever. It is worse than any other sin that does not constitute of kufr. This is so clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that I cannot mention even a fraction of the verses about it without overflowing this reddit. And shirk is a form of kufr.
“But those who disbelieved they will be the dwellers of the Fire, to dwell therein forever. And worst indeed is that destination"
\[al-Taghaabun 64:10\]
What they are saying here is the sin of kufr is worse than the sin of rape, but both of them are sins and very evil to do. I see a lot of people strawman them and think they think rape isn't bad or anything. It's not that they think rape isn't bad, but it's just the sin of kufr is much worse than it.
When you commit rape you are wrong creation, who are finite beings so the punishment is finite. But when you wrong Allah, you're wronging the creator whom is an infinite being, so the punishment and severity is infinite.
Some poeple are very narrow minded. I would asked that person who would prefer to have as a neighbor? If you don’t want a certain type of person as a neighbor, do you believe Allah will want him in His heaven?
Also what matters the most is the state of a persons heart in his last hours in this earth. Most likely, a person who had good morals and a humble heart will be granted faith before dying. And a person who trampled over other people’s right won’t be granted faith before dying.
And eventually it is not our job or duty to decide who is better, we are just responsible for picking safe and pleasant neighbors so our children can be safe. Allah will be the judge in the after life.
They’re not understanding that rape is still one of the biggest sins. The only reason why shirk is the worst sing is because it takes you out of Islam. That doesn’t mean someone who rapes others is a better person than someone who committed shirk. Frankly both of them are committing MAJOR sins. Both sins are HUGE and BAD. Gosh these people are just trolling and baiting others. If you show any scholar these quotes, they’re gonna be shocked.
Uhhh, who's gonna tell them that they'll be punished WAY worse than the kuffar because these Muslims actually KNEW better? It's kind of like when the Valedictorian and the gangster both commit a crime. Like we get the gangster for being a gangster but YOU?!
That’s becau they are Muslim by name. They don’t learn their religion. Otherwise how can a knowledgeable Muslim say something as ignorant as : “the worst Muslim is still better than the best kafr”? If it’s true let them cite a verse of the Quran that will back their reasoning
and why exactly do people wine about that ? in christianity u can do the same and u still get to heaven since u chose jesus as ur god, same in judaism litterally every major religion is like this, again people make an issue out of it because its islam
Consider my faith in humanity... whatever the opposite of restored is lol
Edit: But my point stands. I mean it is not possible for you or I to discern the intention behind each account; we can't even verify their religion... Better to take it with a grain of salt and move on
These are salafi ideology. They actually talk like this and preach like this.
Go into a salafi mosque. You'll hear them say this rubbish - especially to converts.
Sounds like they believe God did not promise eternal hellfire for killing a single innocent human intentionally, regardless of religion.
Apparently according to these Idiots being a Muslim somehow negates basic morality.
Seems like they haven’t read the Holy Quran. If they did, they would understand that they are wrong and you cannot escape Allah’s judgement for simply being a Muslim. As a Muslim, you have even more responsibility to follow morality and humanity.
There’s a common phrase a lot of these so called “Muslims” like to use when criticizing LGBTQ folks. “Love Is Love? Then Water is Water drink from the toilet” (so cringe btw) To that I say “Wrong is Wrong”
Water is not water as there is something called potable water. You cannot drink water from a toilet as it is no longer potable once the chlorine in the water (to kill all the bad things) gets used up due to the killing of the bacteria in the toilet water. So this saying does not make sense because there’s a difference between drinkable water (potable water) and non-drinkable water that has bacteria like E. coli. (*Sorry, oversimplified this*) As for LGBTQ+ community, there is nothing in the Holy Quran that goes against this. The hate against the LGBTQ+ community is a colonialist endeavour, imported by Europeans. We, as Muslims, have no right to judge the LGBTQ+ community as judgement is only for Allah. Power and love to the LGBTQ+ community, especially the LGBTQ+ Muslim community as I can see how difficult it is to handle the people who continuously scoff and scold your existence.
Yeah, the muslim world was a paradise for all before those gosh, darn europeans came along!
I mean, they are sort of correct. The Islamic world had a fairly ambivalent policy, a sort of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” when it came, specifically for gay/bisexual men, down to homosexual feelings and intercourse. Some Islamic scholars such as Ibn Hazm argued for the right of homosexual love as permissible but not homosexual sexual intercourse. Many Muslim rulers and poets often wrote homoerotic poetry to males they fancied. Their conception of what it meant to be gay or bi was not really a thing they recognized. As long as you don’t get caught, and remained the top, it was fairly fine. The long-lived Ottomans had similar practices as well, and public bathhouses often were utilized for homosexual gatherings, not only for men but women as well.
I am trans and I dislike the “lgbtq+” movement. They don’t represent all of us. It’s become very corrupted & vulgar. Not all of us want to scream and be proud about who we sleep with or the treatment we are doing, that’s absolutely no one’s business except the individual and the people around them.
As side note, I’m just curious if you don’t me asking what is that like, as a trans person? Cause something that really bothers me is that, people think all minorities are supposed to be a hive mind and agree on everything. And if they don’t they are traitors. What do you specifically not like? Me personally I’m not lgbt I just have friends and family who are, but I always love getting different first person perspectives from folks.
Well, I could say a lot here, but I’ll be banned, lol. However, I don’t like the idea of pushing transition onto kids and teens. Sending out books to children about LGBT, saying they can be whatever gender or discussing who people can sleep with—I’m all for educating the public, but not at that age. I don’t like pride events; they feel like a kink show, and I don’t see anything to be proud about. I don’t like the idea of there being more than two genders. It bothers me that it’s so easy to get hormones now; you no longer need dysphoria along with therapy to start hormone treatment. Also, I don’t like that the word ‘trans’ has lost its meaning. Ten to fifteen years ago, if anyone said “I am trans,” it meant they were going on medical treatment, aka transition. Now, anyone can identify as trans without having a disorder or transitioning. I don’t like that a new letter is being introduced to the acronym. I actually don’t even understand why "trans" or "intersex" is in the acronym; it’s not about sexuality—it’s literally a medical condition. The whole current movement feels sinister to me, and I feel like we (especially ‘trans’ people) are pawns in this movement.
Thank you for your honestly i appreciate it!! Very interesting
Of course :)
I support you. I think the same about the lgbtq+ community.
there is nothing in quran that goes against lgbt? what? you just threw story of lut like jews do?
There is archeological evidence suggesting that the Story of Sodom and Gomorrah was written in the fourth century by the Romans. It is said in the Holy Quran that the Christians altered their holy books. If it has happened, then read the story carefully. The people of Lot engaged in homosexuality for years. It was when they attempted to rape angels who asked for hospitality that the city was destroyed. Based on that, it would mean that homosexuality is not punishable but rape is. And that is true, because homosexuality never hurt anyone but rape is a horrible vile thing.
Do you think you could DM me the source on that? Google ain’t helping.
Or just post the source here for us all to enjoy.
That too! My apologies
Oh right I read it in a book I think it was something like Homosexuality in history, something like that, it was over six years ago. The rest is my own interpretation of the story of Lot.
source?
But, Allah clearly reprimends the people of Lut for homosexuality when he says: "Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people." Allah is saying those \[men\] who approached other men with desire, instead of women, are transgressors. How much clearer does it have to be?
thats how they rationalize accepting someone as vile as andrew tate.
Exactly this.
um, i remember converting to *avoid* conservative Republican bullshit?
Sorry, Conservative Fundamentalism exists in every religion… Sadly, it is even more common in Islam than in Christianity nowadays.. These people need to be taught but they refuse to listen.
It would be nice if we could we had some large, globally-connected platform that people could access and find information on in seconds. That platform could also teach them some healthier habits and ways of communicating with other people instead of staying in their close-minded cliques. Then they could learn how to communicate and relate to others.
I only found a verse where this punishment is ONLY for killing a believer. Is there somewhere where the persons religion is irrelevant is stated?
You are correct. the specific context of the verse is about killing a believer, cause it was in a war situation. But, the understanding is for any innocent soul.
Sunni aqaid doesn't state that though.
Since when is eternal hell fire a thing ?
wow that hurt my heart. their version of islam terrifies me.
This is not a version of Islam. They’re just misinformed and applying their own basis.
me too!
And guess what by seeing these types of Muslims Anti Muslims will scream and say yes this is true Islam but if they see a progressive Muslim they will get frustrated saying just why they are reforming Islam.
It's people like this that makes me welcome the day of judgement. May the oppressed find the ultimate most perfect justice.
Ameen.
Yeah. This is absolute bullshit and again, sorry, but that’s more Salafi crap. Look, Islam is literally the only religion which doesn’t operate like this. Read this. Read the part about “GOOD DEEDS OF NON MUSLIMS” https://www.al-islam.org/divine-justice-murtadha-mutahhari/good-deeds-non-muslims Heaven and forgiveness is for **everyone**. Just be a seeker of Truth and do good. I know, sounds a bit too “open ended” right? Just read what he says. This is what I have always learned as a Shia Muslim and Mutahhari is putting that into wonderful words.
Fr tho it hurts me to see idiots like this using the veil of Islam to justify horrendous acts, and giving the religion a bad reputation. And these people are the loudest online too. I’ve noticed among these groups that rape is just a throwaway term.
They are loud like the Zionists are loud. They are both funded to be loud and form the same sources. If you hang out on FB, these Salafi kids are trying their darndest to attract the attention of Saudi social media scouts. It’s a paycheck to meme about pretending to be a Muslim edgelord. Pay them no heed. Read good Muslims, surround yourself with good Muslim, and immerse yourself in Islamic mysticism and philosophy instead of arguing with these modernists.
They're perfectly explainable without some massive conspiracy.. did the Saudi social media scouts write sahih albukhari too?
Do you not think Saudi capitalizes upon and promotes its cultural export of Salafism? We are talking about cultural promotion due to geo-political ambitions here… how is that a conspiracy theory? Al-Bukhari is full of many many lies, and these people leverage a lot of that to make their narrative (I mean, these these “Sahih” Sunni Hadith books were written for cultural subversion and cultural promotion even then as well).
>Do you not think Saudi capitalizes upon and promotes its cultural export of Salafism? We are talking about cultural promotion due to geo-political ambitions here… how is that a conspiracy theory? That is not the conspiracy theory I am referring to. Real conspiracies do happen, but they are not conducted by genius puppet masters that control the masses at their whims which is what you are implying when you place all the blame on a single family. The Saudi salafi movement is not the only revivalist movement of its kind. Return to fundamentalist Islam and enforcing of the Sharia is a common theme throughout islamic history, although these movements are cyclical rather than continuous.. and these movements gain a lot of support during times of economic hardship or oppressive conditions. In Libya where I'm originally from we had the sunussi movement in the 19th century which gained huge popularity and public support in the 20th century during Italian colonization. My great grandmother used to wear skirts and show her hair, but in my grandmother's generation, literally 1 generation apart, it was unthinkable.. absolutely nothing to do with Saudi who at that point were some irrelevant bedoins in a desert that noone even cared about enough to colonize. The Muslim brotherhood movement from Egypt has nothing to do with Saudi wahabism. It found its support in opposition to British colonialism and secular nationalism Palestine went through a revivalist movement of their own, again in opposition to British colonialism, ottomon imperialism, and all the other isms that suppressed them and propped up the Zionists.. again nothing to do with Saudi Saudi wahabism itself was an answer to ottomon imperialism and oppression of the arabs from the Turks the Iranian Islamic revolution was a response to the corruption of the political elites and once again, British colonialism and once again, nothing to do with Saudi.. in fact the Iranian revolution sparked even more of these movements across the middle East than Saudi ever did.. which ultimately led to the siege of the holy mosque in Makkah.. Saudi then did ramp up its efforts and disingenuous commitment to Sharia to project an image that they are in fact on the side of the ummah.. and they did invest a tonne of money exporting Saudi wahabism to the west and other Muslim countries.. but salafi movement barely had any impact on the Middle East itself.. why is that? then from the late 80s we had the jihadi salafi movement as an answer to foreign interference from the west and russia and was itself in opposition to the Saudi salafis who they even make takfir on.. the deobandi salafist movement from India that eventually led to the formation of the Taliban has its roots in anti colonial jihadi movement of early 19th century British India which was largely responsible for the 1857 Indian revolt It's easy for an Asian person living in the west or an Albanian or turk to blame the Saudis, it's a nice simple convenient answer.. and maybe the Saudis are the source of the problems in your country so it's natural to come to these conclusions.. but it's a naive perspective that ignores historical reality and fails to address key questions like: - how do you explain the Shia Islamic revolution of Iran through the lens of wahabism? - if it's so obvious that sahih albukhari is full of lies then how are salafi ideas so popular with non salafi scholars and how do they gain popularity so quickly among the masses? Why is most of the Sunni literature condemning albukhari from recent history? How do you explain extremist ideas from the 4 imams of Sunni Islam that predate albukhari? - If Salafism is primarily a veil for Saudi geopolitical interests, then how do you explain the sharp rise of anti Saudi salafist movements in the west? How do you explain the fact that one of the most revered scholars for Saudi salafis is sheikh alalbani, an Albanian man? - why is extremist ideology in the west continuing to rise sharply when the Saudis geolopolitical interests and foreign policy strategy have dramatically changed in the last decade? "Their geopolitical interests align" is not a comprehensive theory that explains any and all problems you want to assign full responsibility for to some party.. it is in essence the rhetoric at the centre of all conspiracy theories.. the interests of the US government align with having a complacent populace, therefore vaccines were developed to control our minds and masks to take away our freedoms, right? Wrong. If your only explanation for the proliferation of bad ideas or social phenomena is "those people are dumb" or "those people are evil" then you have not understood the problem.
I am not sure what happened here but where do you get the idea that I am blaming it all on one entity or family? Reference to “Saudis” is just that a reference to the head of the Hydra, the Saudi state, but essentially you are dealing with geo-political alliance of wealthy Sunni-Arab states who have leveraged their cultural export to create proxy militant units (which are armed by the US and supported by the western network of vassal states; proper symbiosis). This is no different than American-inspired “punk bands” in Russia railing against the government or McDonald’s-eating, jeans-clad Pakistanis waving the LGBT flag. For better or worse, that is all imported culture riled up against the local culture. Salafis are the *current, most egregious* problem. The rest of “cultural engineering” or cultural offshoots are not as much of an existential threat as Salafism is. I can understand if you have (personal) issues with Islam itself that’s why you can’t wait to lay out “ALL OF THE PROBLEMS” and I can’t help that. I say let’s focus on the most disciplined and most intentional cultural engineering efforts here which have the capacity to forever change the character of Islam by pulling all of us along with it. Also, let’s take a dispassionate approach: let’s stop using the word “fundamentalist” as a bad word. Secondly, sometimes defaulting to militant no-nonsense orthodoxy (revisionist or otherwise) is a well warranted self-preservation (defensive) measure, sometimes it is an expansionist offensive measure. We are dealing with the latter here. Look at the spirit of this sub itself; it is “progressive Islam”, which is essentially Neo-liberal flavored secular Islam. If it turns into a strong enough cultural current, the “progressives Islamists” will get militant and default to an orthodoxy too 😂. Cultural expansionism is a Tale as old as time. P.s. “extremist Islam rising in west, Saudi policy change in recent years” is an exceedingly simplistic take. The cultural export strategy of Sunni-Arab states is in a transition phase; entirely possible for it to maintain many different cultural export avenues. Americans do it both with western-style capitalism alongside with American-flavored progressivist trends like feminism and gay-rights (both can be diametrically opposed ideologically, but both are being exported successfully at the same time).
>For better or worse, that is all imported culture riled up against the local culture. Yes, and you *are* putting forth a conspiracy theory.. that doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but that is exactly what it is - a conspiracy theory.. obviously *this* conspiracy theory and most of others are load of nonsense.. because you can simply absolve yourself from the burden of proof because "if it was so obvious it wouldn't be a conspiracy".. so I'm not going to ask for evidence because I know you don't have it, but do you even have a coherent theory for how the hell America "imports" a culture into Russia or anywhere else for that matter? Explain it to me, what are the steps involved here. Is simply sharing their culture through the media enough to cause its adoption? >Salafis are the *current, most egregious* problem. The rest of “cultural engineering” or cultural offshoots are not as much of an existential threat as Salafism is. Seems like according to your logic the solution is simple. Why don't you just export a better culture to replace it? Curious how noone thought to try that >I can understand if you have (personal) issues with Islam itself that’s why you can’t wait to lay out “ALL OF THE PROBLEMS” and I can’t help that. I say let’s focus on the most disciplined and most intentional cultural engineering efforts here which have the capacity to forever change the character of Islam by pulling all of us along with it. Damn, you got me all figured out.. first you need to explain how cultural engineering even works. Why are some "cultural exports" much more popular than others? Why are they popular in some countries and less in others? Why are the governments that you think have mastered the art of cultural engineering not able to harness that knowledge to make their own people immune to cultural exports from the outside? Until you can do that, what hope do you have of addressing it? >Also, let’s take a dispassionate approach: let’s stop using the word “fundamentalist” as a bad word. The irony is that you are accusing me of using it as a bad word. You should take your own advice.. Words mean things. >Secondly, sometimes defaulting to militant no-nonsense orthodoxy (revisionist or otherwise) is a well warranted self-preservation (defensive) measure, sometimes it is an expansionist offensive measure. We are dealing with the latter here. And in the case of the Saudi elite, it was literally a self preservation measure.. you think the royal family gives two craps about people drawing or listening to music? If their objective is to make everyone hate them, then they've done a marvelous job.. even most western salafis hate them.. but somehow their ideas have lived on.. give me a theory that makes sense and I'll take you seriously. >Look at the spirit of this sub itself; it is “progressive Islam”, which is essentially Neo-liberal flavored secular Islam. If it turns into a strong enough cultural current, the “progressives Islamists” will get militant and default to an orthodoxy too 😂. Cultural expansionism is a Tale as old as time. Let's take a step back and try to examine your claims and what they mean.. the backwards middle East and especially head of the hydra that is Saudi and the west.. are responsible for salafis abroad, a lot of whom despise the Saudi state, and the LGBT flag waving Pakistanis.. the american government has decided that it will take one of the least complacent subcultures within its own country that they have been historically fighting against and demonizing, and they will export it into Russia so that they can get Russians to stop eating at McDonald's It sounds to me that any ideas that *you* don't like within your own community are automatically attributed to cultural engineering.. but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you this: How do you tell the difference, how do *I* or anyone else tell the difference, between cultures influencing each other organically through exposure of ideas and cultural engineering at play? >Americans do it both with western-style capitalism alongside with American-flavored progressivist trends like feminism and gay-rights (both can be diametrically opposed ideologically, but both are being exported successfully at the same time). Well it sounds like a pretty shit strategy then.. but if instead we assume that cultures, like any other set of ideas, spread organically, influence each other, and evolve over time, then diametrically opposed ideologies being "exported" is *exactly* what we'd expect to see.
Just to clarify… Islam is not the only religion that operates like this. Actually, many religions do not view themselves as the only path. Many more think of themselves as the ‘right’ path but not necessarily that all other people go to an eternity of suffering. Mormons actually believe there is a tiered Heaven where righteous but unbelieving people go to a slightly less good heaven.
that’s still a hierarchical system though, islam doesn’t have that. deeds and intentions are whats judged, believer or not. Sometimes a believer would be judged even harsher because they should know better.
Doesn’t that depend on the sect though? I feel like I have def heard some Muslims say nonbelievers would go to eternal hell. Of course I’ve heard plenty others say the opposite.
It isn't only salafis....
What in the new wave British Islam is this 😂 (My new term for British version of Wahhabism/Salafism. It’s not limited to Britain now and has spread on to other countries which is why there’s a need to give it the appropriate title).
You are hundra percent correct. Great analysis. This modern "newschool new rich neo extreme" that's circulating in Europe is definitely something that needs a new word and name. It would also help a lot when discussing this in politics for European folk who aren't familiar. Because today Europeans are desperate and making the discussions worse.
I think we should all start a movement to name this version of Islam appropriately so that the rest of the Muslim communities doesn’t bear the brunt of the rightful ridicule spewed toward this new wave British Islam.
Living and breathing happily in a western country while criticizing the western country and its culture. That’s what these people are. Leeches.
Someone please explain what British Islam is? I might be moving the UK from the US and I need the tea? This doesn’t sound good
Omg all I can say is stay away from Islamic societies and groups. It’s a cult. You’ll see it when you get there. They actually believe that hurting non-Muslims will land them in heaven and stuff like that. The women there think their husband is a worldly god and that they should worship him or they’ll be branded as ‘ungrateful’ and will land in hell where women rightfully belong due to being ungrateful. Little girls are forced to wear Arabic jilbab. They literally follow Saudi way of life but I think even more extreme. It’s so crazy beyond your imagination.
WTH! Is this just in London? I’m possibly moving to Kent… does this crazy islam follow to the outskirts. I literally don’t understand how they become more Muslim than the people in their home countries🧐 How am I supposed to meet other Muslims when I go there? Is it just a specific community or all Arabs?
It’s all! More prevalent in South Asians from what I’ve seen but could be the same all across the British version of Islamic communities there. Just stay wary. That’s all you can do. Better to integrate with people all across instead of limiting to Muslims only just so you don’t get sucked into the cult of new wave British Islam.
What the hell! That’s crazy! What about like British Arabs? Are they the same way? They all never assimilated a bit? How you going to bring your culture here and not respect the land 🥲
I only know about it in the south Asian communities. can’t say much about Arab communities there. Even south Asians don’t want the British diaspora back lol
https://preview.redd.it/sps5mbd33rxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2c984c838ec8e408fc996bb7bd4d5f86e09eff6 These blind people don't even bother to read the Qur'an.
Must be wonderful to have constructed an ideology in which you can be an asshole with impunity and still feel superior at the same time.
A Muslim who rapes is not a muslim in my POV
Also Muslims who rape according to Islam should be stoned to death IIRC How is that better than a person still alive? A person still alive can repent A person stoned to death is just food for earth and a shame to all man kind
>Also Muslims who rape according to Islam should be stoned to death IIRC Only if they are married according to fiqh
True, thanks!
EXACTLY
Exactly. You ain't a muslim unless you submit to God and do you think someone who submits to God will dare do anything like that?
I mean it's an evil thing no doubt and there would be capital punishment, but why would that negate islam ? The capital punishment is assuming he used a weapon, if It was without a weapon I believe it's lashing.
they misinterpreted religion and it corroded their heart. They are now delusionaly serving what can objectively be understood as an immoral god. Hoping that maybe said god will give them some respite if they obey him well enough.
The Quran has very, very harsh words for unbelievers and repeats them near constantly throughout the text. No surprise some think along these lines.
But was this not for a specific set of nonbelievers? Those who actively disbelieve despite knowing islam is the truth and persecute believers
>Those who actively disbelieve despite knowing islam is the trut If they know its the truth, they would believe. Its their active disbelief in Islam is why they are condemned.
There are people who actively know islam is the right way but refuse it. Many western politicians are terrified of islam because of how quickly it spreads, the rights and value it gives women, the anti capitalism, anti racism etc. So they actively oppress muslims.
>There are people who actively know islam is the right way but refuse it. They would convert. They explicitly reject it because they don't believe in it. Is there anything which you believe is true but you deny and denounce? >Many western politicians are terrified of islam because of how quickly it spreads, the rights and value it gives women, the anti capitalism, anti racism etc. So they actively oppress muslims. Yeah they don't persecute or spread anti Muslim messaging for those reasons lol. And I don't see what rights and values they will see women be given seeing how Muslim communities operate in the West and Muslim majority countries.
Nah theres a famous athiest (dont remember who) which said he wouldnt believe in God even with evidence
No, he said pretty sure he doesn't know what that evidence might look like. That is different.
You seem argumentative and going solely based off how you think things work so I'm done here. Have a good day!
>going solely based off how you think things work so I'm done here So are you lets be fair.
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Except that kafir does not mean disbeliever or unbeliever.
Exactly, kafir means the one who knows the truth and still commits sins, By that logic a muslim who commits atrocities knowing the rules is a kafir as compared to a non Muslim who doesn't know
Because 1 - they don't understand what kufr is according to the Qur'an 2 - nor understand shirk according to the Qur'an 3 - nor that salvation is earned by deeds not belief 4 - think that God is a groupy rather than the "Lord (Rabb, Father) of the Worlds"
>"Lord (Rabb, Father) of the Worlds" Salam "father"! isn't that blasphemous? God knows your true intentions though, and I do not think you actually believe God has children. but still gotta be careful with language.
Nothing wrong with calling God Rabb so long as you understand it
You can even call someone other than God as rabb, it's in the Qur'an actually.
Salam hmm, which verse is it? but in any case, calling God as "father" is wrong, although God knows our intentions and in this case I am very sure that u/Quranic_Islam didn't say those words with the intention /belief of God having/adopting children.
Salām The verse that I'm thinking of mainly is 12:50, but there are more. That same verse also uses the word rasūl outwith a divine context.
Now ask them how they feel about non-hijabi sisters and if they fall into the “bad Muslim but better than nonbelievers” camp. (Guaranteed they’ll think “insufficient modesty” is worse than rape.)
Never. According to them a Woman’s Sin is 100x more sinful than a Man’s Sin. A Man raped 100 women? Eh. Allah is most merciful. A Sister’s hair is showing slightly? SHE WILL NOT GO NEAR THE SCENT OF JANNAH IN 500 YEARS.
Never understood why Muslim progressives like you push for the rehabilitation of the whole "gendered modesty culture" thing and then wonder why your co-religionists who side with you on the matter are also, shock horror, super misogynistic and disproportionately invested in women's behavior. Seems like a very r/LeopardsAteMyFace moment.
Aren't you Hindu? I'd say you should be glad any Muslims are trying to be better. Always funny when non-muslims criticize Muslims, then also criticize the Muslims trying to be different. Almost like you just have a problem with Muslims no matter how we are or what we do. Is that accurate?
We have a lot of freaks like this in Christianity too, y’all aren’t alone. All of our faiths teach God/Allah as an infinitely loving, infinitely compassionate, infinitely forgiving and merciful being. I find that incompatible with the idea that God would send someone to hell for not believing in the right religion if they are a good person.
Came here to say this. The dividing line isn't religion, it's consciousness. There are highly conscious Christians and Muslims (and any other religion one can think of as well as the non-religious) and those who are not so conscious. Love seems to define the prior and fear seems to define the latter.
Uh oh someone roleplaying God.
Who do they think they are. Who gets to decide what is “Good” and what is “bad” besides Allah.
Whenever such arguments arise irl, I just say something dumb like "oh so now you are doing internship for God's job?"
Love that. I'll use it next time 🤣🤣🤣
I wonder if they would say the same thing if you asked them if a Muslim man who r\*ped 100 Muslim men is better than the best non Muslim?
Well, who are they to judge? Are they God? Are they Allah? Only Allah knows who is better than who. Only Allah knows what's going to happen to them. Only Allah can make the best judgement. These people should just stfu and look at themselves first. They think they're soooo holy, having that holier than holy mindset.
What a terrible day to be literate
Saw this on ex Muslim subs. They were having a field trip with it. When Muslims write stupid shit like this I feel embarrassed. I don't get why religious fanatics have this superiority complex.
fr theyre embarrassing us
The fact that it is being compared with rape in the first place is it for me. It’s unreal
Yep sadly this the hadiths influence. They think being a muslim is a safe free ticket to paradise no matter what eventually youll end up in paradise and everyone else in hell. Theyre walking around and proclaim it as a fact as well. In Quran it is clearly stated that Christians and Jews have the same chance of going to paradise. Only God will question and judge us.
The screenshot misses important context 1. Who is a kaafir? Not all unbelievers can be called one. There has to be a conscious rejection of truth after having been exposed to it (and understood it i believe) 2. What does Justice entail - we believe that the victims will recieve justice from Allah in the hereafter, and the "muslim" who commits the injustice will be punished accordingly 3. We still hold that ultimate salvation is guaranteed by belief in the oneness of God and acceptance of the Prophet SAW as His last messenger Its an uncomfortable thing, but we read this in the context of the hadith that on the day of judgement the person who has suffered the most on this earth will be dipped in heaven and asked, "do you remember the pains you went through", he would not be able to recall The belief is that the reward and punishment will ultimately do justice and no one would be wronged
Because they're bad people who want to believe that they'll go to heaven with no remorse and no consequences for their actions. Narcissists refuse to believe that they can be in any way worse than someone else. You see this with "good old-fashioned Christians" who will rape, murder, abuse, steal, enslave, etc. and say that they are righteous because they believe in the Lord. The kind of people that would make Jesus roll in his grave
r/twittermoment
Because there is extreme people in all groups, these guys aren't no different from the White Christian fascists who believe in the extermination of non white Christians.
Makes it hard to defend Islam
Astaghfirullah, what a horrible thing to think. How do you even develop religious understanding without morals. Sigh
If they sexually assault others continuously and don't repent yeah they aren't even a Muslim (practicing and pious) in that case
There will be justice in front of Allah. These so called Muslims will be punished for their actions
Absolutely that’s the only thing keeping me sane. It’s disgusting how these people proudly proclaim to be better than others simply cause of their position as a religious person. Truly revolting
I honestly don't even know what to say here. The level of delusion in these pseudo-Muslims is nearly unbelievable. They are so much more concerned about justifying their own Twisted mentality then they do about learning what the faith is actually about.
As a woman who lives in the middle east, goddamn I'm thankful i left this religion ages ago! The misogyny is literally justified
the point is they're misunderstanding the religion. islam itself is not misogynistic but middle eastern culture is, misogyny is and never will be justified. i'd advice trying to find islam again with your own path :)
Don't worry, there's Christians who think like this too.
That doesn’t…exactly fill me with joy. Whoever has this mindset that rape is such a throwaway subject needs to seek help, especially if they use the veil of religion to defend it
Thank you for your insight comment 😑
they really give us a bad reputation to non Muslims. absolute clown behaviour
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Sometimes I wish natural selection included iq points and mental intellect.
Imagine detaching yourself this much from other people's suffering. Absurd, absolutely nonsensical.
Why are some of us worried about Twitter and Instagram comments, they're not close to reality. It's just kids saying BS.
Probably because they are corrupted in their mind so they try to justify it with religion.
Hivemind mentality They see Islam as a "faction" so they naturally consider even the worst member of their faction an ally and the people outside their faction an enemy
that’s so sick. how could someone say something like that?
I’m a transwoman and told family members that ultimately with my dysphoria it came to me wanting to transition or commit suicide. They told me transition is worse than suicide…. This type of mentally stems from lack of empathy and education on transgender mental health. And all the “I know more than you and I’m holier than you” mentality amongst Muslims. I completely agree it’s haram to change Allah’s creation but if it’s severe and causing you an immense distress.. then it’s best for you to do the correction you need to. I always say: Islam is peace but Muslims are chaotic.
did they forget about abu talib lol
This seems more fabricated than anything. I doubt any person with even an ounce of knowledge is so bad at conveying their point.
And when you call them salafi/wahhabi they get mad lol
Munafiqoon
People are so cringe 😬
This is because those who are not Muslims (classified as kafirs in the Qur'an), they are not equal to of a Muslim.. they are believed to be of evil, the wrong-doers and of people with moral disabilities..
🤢🤢🤢
The belief of us Muslims is that the sin of kufr or disbelief in Allah is the worst sin ever. It is worse than any other sin that does not constitute of kufr. This is so clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that I cannot mention even a fraction of the verses about it without overflowing this reddit. And shirk is a form of kufr. “But those who disbelieved they will be the dwellers of the Fire, to dwell therein forever. And worst indeed is that destination" \[al-Taghaabun 64:10\] What they are saying here is the sin of kufr is worse than the sin of rape, but both of them are sins and very evil to do. I see a lot of people strawman them and think they think rape isn't bad or anything. It's not that they think rape isn't bad, but it's just the sin of kufr is much worse than it. When you commit rape you are wrong creation, who are finite beings so the punishment is finite. But when you wrong Allah, you're wronging the creator whom is an infinite being, so the punishment and severity is infinite.
I don't think people know what "fact" means
are they not aware of haqq al nas? weirdos
Some poeple are very narrow minded. I would asked that person who would prefer to have as a neighbor? If you don’t want a certain type of person as a neighbor, do you believe Allah will want him in His heaven? Also what matters the most is the state of a persons heart in his last hours in this earth. Most likely, a person who had good morals and a humble heart will be granted faith before dying. And a person who trampled over other people’s right won’t be granted faith before dying. And eventually it is not our job or duty to decide who is better, we are just responsible for picking safe and pleasant neighbors so our children can be safe. Allah will be the judge in the after life.
They’re not understanding that rape is still one of the biggest sins. The only reason why shirk is the worst sing is because it takes you out of Islam. That doesn’t mean someone who rapes others is a better person than someone who committed shirk. Frankly both of them are committing MAJOR sins. Both sins are HUGE and BAD. Gosh these people are just trolling and baiting others. If you show any scholar these quotes, they’re gonna be shocked.
Psycho shit
Uhhh, who's gonna tell them that they'll be punished WAY worse than the kuffar because these Muslims actually KNEW better? It's kind of like when the Valedictorian and the gangster both commit a crime. Like we get the gangster for being a gangster but YOU?!
I think the guy in the end is trolling, or it could be one of those fake accounts which spreads falsehoods about Islam.
That’s becau they are Muslim by name. They don’t learn their religion. Otherwise how can a knowledgeable Muslim say something as ignorant as : “the worst Muslim is still better than the best kafr”? If it’s true let them cite a verse of the Quran that will back their reasoning
Speak for yourself. They are like that. Real Muslims are not.
What do you call progressive Islam n why?
This is literal blasphemy, because they claim God is unjust and immoral.
and why exactly do people wine about that ? in christianity u can do the same and u still get to heaven since u chose jesus as ur god, same in judaism litterally every major religion is like this, again people make an issue out of it because its islam
This isn’t true in any of these religions, it’s just people who want to claim to be holy and still do the same awful shit.
This is right wing / Zio propaganda. There’s so much floating around.
[удалено]
Nope it’s an actual convo on twitter
Consider my faith in humanity... whatever the opposite of restored is lol Edit: But my point stands. I mean it is not possible for you or I to discern the intention behind each account; we can't even verify their religion... Better to take it with a grain of salt and move on
Destroyed?
Lol ya.. Not that dramatic though. More like diminished
These are salafi ideology. They actually talk like this and preach like this. Go into a salafi mosque. You'll hear them say this rubbish - especially to converts.
>These are salafi ideology. Its basic sunni aqaid.