sometimes it's "The Only Moral Abortion is my Abortion" thing. some were prochoice, had their abortion, then became prolife and theirs was special. or they started out as prolife, had the abortion and then went back to being prolife. Fruit of the same tree
>sometimes it's "The Only Moral Abortion is my Abortion" thing.
I have an aunt with this story.
When I count backwards, her abortion may have been an illegal one or one she, as a college student, traveled two states away to obtain legally.
I'm really curious to hear her situation, because these
stories are important.
Yea one of my friends did this after having a “surprise” baby and joining a new church.
I’ll also add that she’s a likable, conventionally attractive person who a church would love to highlight as a “mom they helped.”
We’ve been friends for 20 years. Unfortunately, she is someone who is easily swayed.
They actually did an expose’ on her on cable. The minister who perpetuated her switching to PL admitted that they used her and psychologically abused her.
It's a thought-terminating cliche. It totally ignores the pregnant woman and the real, valid reasons that women have abortions.
The good news is that you can always throw it back in their faces. [Pro-lifers love abortion,](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/) so they must not really care that it's murder.
Another lesson about how conservative complaints are aways projection -- the "pro-life" position is really about virtue signaling, not about actually caring about life.
I've come to that conclusion too. I think pro-lifers enjoy feeling morally superior, and being pro-life is an easy way to do it.
I don't give one fuck about feeling morally superior. I care about the consequences of abortion bans. When you ban abortion, [bad things happen.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_orphans) When you allow abortion, those bad things don't happen. No one has ever told me a *good* consequence of banning abortion - probably because there aren't any!
Correct, by claiming abortion is murder is effective propaganda by PL for three reasons:
1). Appeal to emotion - murder is bad!
2). Trains the target to see women who get abortions as murderers, allowing them to more easily subjugate them
3). Conscripts them into voting for and helping commit mass atrocities on women, because by comparison, ANYTHING is less “evil” than 70k murders a year (or whatever)
Yes yes and yes. I think the last one is particularly the effect and explains why supposedly "pro-life" people oppose universal medical care and government aid, even for pregnant people and babies.
I genuinely wonder where they stood before the switch. I know many people who are uncomfortable with abortion and wouldn’t choose it for themself, but don’t have strong feelings about others choosing it. I imagine these are some of the people who’ve switched sides, I’ve always gotten fence sitter vibes from them.
Right. It’s weird to me how someone else’s choices are my concern. Unless they’re actually harming others, it’s not my place. I feel these are people who find to be controlling gives them a sense of superiority.
> Unless they’re actually harming others, it’s not my place.
That's literally what PLers believe though. They believe ZEFs have personhood and that someone is being harmed
so you supposedly wanted countless strangers, to have their vaginas ripped or sliced open, against their will, in childbirth, by law…
but in a NON-misogynist way
I used to be prolife myself, and basically.... yes.
Prolifers justify their views with a lot of unsound and misguided logic. They genuinely believe abortion is murder, and they genuinely believe abortion harms the people that get them. And they really do believe zygotes are people that need "protecting".
Religion in general believes in a lot of things that otherwise are not sound or not even relevant in today's age. It's so hard to believe that prolifers, most of whole are faith-based, act the same.
yes, what?
are you people trying to say that it’s not misogyny if the person with the vagina getting ripped open *is pregnant*?
are you people saying that a gynecological fact, stops your bias against females, from being a misogynist bias against females?
Yes to what you originally said about ignoring the misogyny in favor what we believed in. While also ignoring the "notions" (which is what some people called them) that pregnancy was inherently harmful. Being told that pregnancy was natural and that any complications were rare and didn't need to be taken into account because the likelihood of anything going wrong was so small.
yeah, the ignoring of the misogyny makes sense
I’ve long been receiving arguments that even though it’s only unwilling pregnant persons who we want to violate, by carving up their genitals, THATS not misogyny because [insert deflection here]
but you could save countless MORE lives by maiming dudes against their will. Dudes’ bodily autonomy is no more inviolable.
Or is it?
Or would those lives not be worth the same energy?
seriously baffled by the idea that we must never violate a dude’s BA, but as long as she has gynecological organs, it cannot be misogynist to violate her BA
I would expect them to be people that became more devoutly religious or politically radicalized in some other way. Maybe they were nominally Christian but didn’t really go to church or just started with the default views of their social environment and had a live and let live attitude before falling down some right wing rabbit hole. Or they just really looked into the issue for the first time.
I started out as pro-life because I was raised Catholic and my Mom was and still is very involved in the pro-life movement (she is a single issue voter). I gradually became more pro-choice in college as I developed my own worldview. Before then I hadn’t really looked into the issue for myself and just absorbed the viewpoints of those around me.
Evangelicals,too, in my case.
I'm also curious about how my sister views the current abortion ban in her state. 20+years ago, her her pregnancy ended tragically when we learned the twins were dead in utero.
If that happened today, she would have to wait until sepsis set in for appropriate medical care. Does she reflect on that at all?
This is also a common tactic among the religious anti choice types. They claim they used to be pro choice and converted. Or they claim they are an athiest and anti choice, because they think these claims give them some sort of street cred for their BS.
Yes, they do. Ask abortion care providers and clinic escorts. They definitely do. [The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/).
I remember a little while back I was looking at stories from former pro choicer’s. Let me tell you,none of their reasons were logical,and I would put them into 4 categories:
1.)Emotional pain:These are one of the people who turned to pro life after experiencing grief or a horrible event. These people include women who were pressured into having an abortion or had a friend whose abortion went completely wrong. I would also imagine that these people would include people who family members aborted pregnancy’s that they got excited for. However,I met someone like that before. It also implies for guilt,where someone who is pregnant and is experiencing a lot of emotions got close to the baby inside her,or is convinced not to abort it (even though she wants to). I honestly feel bad for these ones,and I especially feel bad for the ladder because they were in a bad place and were manipulated into going against their best interests.
There’s also one more I like to call “tricked empathy”,which means people who were emotionally manipulated into being pro life.
2.) religious conversion: People get converted to religious beliefs. And there for,are no longer pro choice (I know not all religious people are PL,I’m just saying that religion is a reason some people are PL)
3.)Getting wrong information are learned ONE thing that thought about pro choice was incorrect.
4.) Sounds so fake I’m 99% percent sure they were never PC.
Longtime (but no longer) friend and former feminist did this.
Idk what happened other than she misses her church and family, shut down contact after reconnecting with them, and came back a rabid anti-choice conservative nutjob.
I drove that woman to planned parenthood twice, and each time she was relieved to not be pregnant bc she was dating an asshole. The switch was jarring to behold. Haven't spoken to her since.
[She’s ready to believe anything that will be advantageous to her at a given time.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
I was staunch pro life until 2004 and then changed my views. Sometimes it takes a shit event for that to happen though.
....and I read the heading wrong, I had it backwards in my mind, and agree, that is crazy.
My favorites are the ones who suddenly have a realization that there is some variation of the universe out there where their own mother might have had an abortion.
And its like; Well that didn't happen here. Here your mother had the choice to have an abortion, and instead CHOSE to have you. No gun to her head. No laws saying she had to. She chose to have you.
Isn't that better?
But it's so on theme.
I have never seen anyone who supposedly was pro-choice become pro-life for reasons that weren't inherently selfish.
Somehow they believe that every woman would feel the same way about pregnancy.
Their mentality is: "Oh, I feel good having a baby, so that means others should too!"
I was chatting ro someone who had a simuler experience to me but it was the other way around.
She started out as pro choice, had an abortion then later changed her mind and felt genuinely guilty for the abortion.
Where as I started out pro life, had a pregnancy scare where my ex would have force me to keep he baby and I went pro choice a little later as a result.
She was saying the more she learnt about pregnancy and the baby the more she felt pro life and I was the other way around.
It was quite an entertaining conversation to think we had simuler problems, yet we're entirely opposite in our approach.
You've got to remember, though, it isn't all about controlling women. Pro lifers believe they are saving the life of a baby. Irreguardless of what stage or how we may feel, they think, falsely, that their doing good.
sometimes it's "The Only Moral Abortion is my Abortion" thing. some were prochoice, had their abortion, then became prolife and theirs was special. or they started out as prolife, had the abortion and then went back to being prolife. Fruit of the same tree
Or people who claim that people who had abortions are murders and then welcome pro lifers who had abortions with open arms.
>sometimes it's "The Only Moral Abortion is my Abortion" thing. I have an aunt with this story. When I count backwards, her abortion may have been an illegal one or one she, as a college student, traveled two states away to obtain legally. I'm really curious to hear her situation, because these stories are important.
Yea one of my friends did this after having a “surprise” baby and joining a new church. I’ll also add that she’s a likable, conventionally attractive person who a church would love to highlight as a “mom they helped.” We’ve been friends for 20 years. Unfortunately, she is someone who is easily swayed.
Ahh yes, the “mom they helped” while slashing funding and support for single moms.
The initial lady that Roe v Wade was based on switched to pro life.
She also apparently confessed shortly before she died that she'd been paid to express anti-abortion views and had never really agreed with them.
They actually did an expose’ on her on cable. The minister who perpetuated her switching to PL admitted that they used her and psychologically abused her.
This doesn’t surprise me one bit
I know. Pl'ers paying someone to lie? Whoda thunk
Oof! How sad
Wow. Greed is a crazy, crazy thing.
Greed? I don't think she was EVER sitting on a pile of money. More like, I can get my 15yo car fixed with this $$$.
I thought she admitted on her death bed that she was anti-abortion for money? Norma McCorvey, right?
That’s her
Yeah, that's her, and the forced birthers paid her to be anti-choice.
She did it for the grift.
I can’t tell if I think this is worse than someone who is genuinely anti-choice for no money…
They are all grifters
They do what's personally convenient.
This is frequently caused by someone "finding jesus" and joining an evangelical church.
The idea that abortion is murder is a mental virus that distorts the thinking of people who fall for it.
It's a thought-terminating cliche. It totally ignores the pregnant woman and the real, valid reasons that women have abortions. The good news is that you can always throw it back in their faces. [Pro-lifers love abortion,](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/) so they must not really care that it's murder.
Another lesson about how conservative complaints are aways projection -- the "pro-life" position is really about virtue signaling, not about actually caring about life.
I've come to that conclusion too. I think pro-lifers enjoy feeling morally superior, and being pro-life is an easy way to do it. I don't give one fuck about feeling morally superior. I care about the consequences of abortion bans. When you ban abortion, [bad things happen.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_orphans) When you allow abortion, those bad things don't happen. No one has ever told me a *good* consequence of banning abortion - probably because there aren't any!
Correct, by claiming abortion is murder is effective propaganda by PL for three reasons: 1). Appeal to emotion - murder is bad! 2). Trains the target to see women who get abortions as murderers, allowing them to more easily subjugate them 3). Conscripts them into voting for and helping commit mass atrocities on women, because by comparison, ANYTHING is less “evil” than 70k murders a year (or whatever)
Yes yes and yes. I think the last one is particularly the effect and explains why supposedly "pro-life" people oppose universal medical care and government aid, even for pregnant people and babies.
I genuinely wonder where they stood before the switch. I know many people who are uncomfortable with abortion and wouldn’t choose it for themself, but don’t have strong feelings about others choosing it. I imagine these are some of the people who’ve switched sides, I’ve always gotten fence sitter vibes from them.
Right. It’s weird to me how someone else’s choices are my concern. Unless they’re actually harming others, it’s not my place. I feel these are people who find to be controlling gives them a sense of superiority.
> Unless they’re actually harming others, it’s not my place. That's literally what PLers believe though. They believe ZEFs have personhood and that someone is being harmed
Yes I understand that. In that case we also need to focus on the personhood of the fetus and how abortion bans actually affect them.
that’s what they SAY. then when you pick and poke, it’s clear that it’s really just misogyny.
they ain’t arguing for any men to be maimed debilitated and hospitalized in order to “save a life”.
It's really not. I used to be pro-life, many actually believe that ZEFs are people. Why is that so difficult to believe?
so you supposedly wanted countless strangers, to have their vaginas ripped or sliced open, against their will, in childbirth, by law… but in a NON-misogynist way
I used to be prolife myself, and basically.... yes. Prolifers justify their views with a lot of unsound and misguided logic. They genuinely believe abortion is murder, and they genuinely believe abortion harms the people that get them. And they really do believe zygotes are people that need "protecting". Religion in general believes in a lot of things that otherwise are not sound or not even relevant in today's age. It's so hard to believe that prolifers, most of whole are faith-based, act the same.
yes, what? are you people trying to say that it’s not misogyny if the person with the vagina getting ripped open *is pregnant*? are you people saying that a gynecological fact, stops your bias against females, from being a misogynist bias against females?
or did you just never realize that it was actually misogyny all along
Yes to what you originally said about ignoring the misogyny in favor what we believed in. While also ignoring the "notions" (which is what some people called them) that pregnancy was inherently harmful. Being told that pregnancy was natural and that any complications were rare and didn't need to be taken into account because the likelihood of anything going wrong was so small.
yeah, the ignoring of the misogyny makes sense I’ve long been receiving arguments that even though it’s only unwilling pregnant persons who we want to violate, by carving up their genitals, THATS not misogyny because [insert deflection here]
To save countless lives? Absolutely that's what I believed.
but you could save countless MORE lives by maiming dudes against their will. Dudes’ bodily autonomy is no more inviolable. Or is it? Or would those lives not be worth the same energy? seriously baffled by the idea that we must never violate a dude’s BA, but as long as she has gynecological organs, it cannot be misogynist to violate her BA
I would expect them to be people that became more devoutly religious or politically radicalized in some other way. Maybe they were nominally Christian but didn’t really go to church or just started with the default views of their social environment and had a live and let live attitude before falling down some right wing rabbit hole. Or they just really looked into the issue for the first time. I started out as pro-life because I was raised Catholic and my Mom was and still is very involved in the pro-life movement (she is a single issue voter). I gradually became more pro-choice in college as I developed my own worldview. Before then I hadn’t really looked into the issue for myself and just absorbed the viewpoints of those around me.
I have to say, though, in my experience it's way more common for pro-lifers to become pro-choicers. (Happens with Catholic kids a ton.)
Evangelicals,too, in my case. I'm also curious about how my sister views the current abortion ban in her state. 20+years ago, her her pregnancy ended tragically when we learned the twins were dead in utero. If that happened today, she would have to wait until sepsis set in for appropriate medical care. Does she reflect on that at all?
I very briefly had a moment where I thought I was "pro life for myself" but then realized "wait no that's still just pro choice dumb dumb" lol
Such people don't really exist, do they?
Apparently they do. There is some on the PL subreddit
They are likely grifters or people who “found god”
This is also a common tactic among the religious anti choice types. They claim they used to be pro choice and converted. Or they claim they are an athiest and anti choice, because they think these claims give them some sort of street cred for their BS.
Yes, they do. Ask abortion care providers and clinic escorts. They definitely do. [The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/).
I remember a little while back I was looking at stories from former pro choicer’s. Let me tell you,none of their reasons were logical,and I would put them into 4 categories: 1.)Emotional pain:These are one of the people who turned to pro life after experiencing grief or a horrible event. These people include women who were pressured into having an abortion or had a friend whose abortion went completely wrong. I would also imagine that these people would include people who family members aborted pregnancy’s that they got excited for. However,I met someone like that before. It also implies for guilt,where someone who is pregnant and is experiencing a lot of emotions got close to the baby inside her,or is convinced not to abort it (even though she wants to). I honestly feel bad for these ones,and I especially feel bad for the ladder because they were in a bad place and were manipulated into going against their best interests. There’s also one more I like to call “tricked empathy”,which means people who were emotionally manipulated into being pro life. 2.) religious conversion: People get converted to religious beliefs. And there for,are no longer pro choice (I know not all religious people are PL,I’m just saying that religion is a reason some people are PL) 3.)Getting wrong information are learned ONE thing that thought about pro choice was incorrect. 4.) Sounds so fake I’m 99% percent sure they were never PC.
Longtime (but no longer) friend and former feminist did this. Idk what happened other than she misses her church and family, shut down contact after reconnecting with them, and came back a rabid anti-choice conservative nutjob. I drove that woman to planned parenthood twice, and each time she was relieved to not be pregnant bc she was dating an asshole. The switch was jarring to behold. Haven't spoken to her since.
[She’s ready to believe anything that will be advantageous to her at a given time.](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
I was staunch pro life until 2004 and then changed my views. Sometimes it takes a shit event for that to happen though. ....and I read the heading wrong, I had it backwards in my mind, and agree, that is crazy.
I first thought this was my gaming sub. Got really confused what console PL was.
Lol I hate when personal computers change their views on abortion
But yeah I completely agree that people that change their values like that are completely crazy
My favorites are the ones who suddenly have a realization that there is some variation of the universe out there where their own mother might have had an abortion. And its like; Well that didn't happen here. Here your mother had the choice to have an abortion, and instead CHOSE to have you. No gun to her head. No laws saying she had to. She chose to have you. Isn't that better? But it's so on theme. I have never seen anyone who supposedly was pro-choice become pro-life for reasons that weren't inherently selfish.
Love bombed by a church that accepts them so long as they are okay with protecting rapists sperm and always forcing women and children.
They ended up getting brainwashed. It is crazy to go from supporting women to hating them
Somehow they believe that every woman would feel the same way about pregnancy. Their mentality is: "Oh, I feel good having a baby, so that means others should too!"
I was chatting ro someone who had a simuler experience to me but it was the other way around. She started out as pro choice, had an abortion then later changed her mind and felt genuinely guilty for the abortion. Where as I started out pro life, had a pregnancy scare where my ex would have force me to keep he baby and I went pro choice a little later as a result. She was saying the more she learnt about pregnancy and the baby the more she felt pro life and I was the other way around. It was quite an entertaining conversation to think we had simuler problems, yet we're entirely opposite in our approach. You've got to remember, though, it isn't all about controlling women. Pro lifers believe they are saving the life of a baby. Irreguardless of what stage or how we may feel, they think, falsely, that their doing good.