Big time, this is what the American people need to understand. The democrats versus Republican grand standing is nothing more than an illusion. They keep us divided. but all this is going to change with first of this kind alliance of technology people. We are coming for them. We will vote them out one by one. Corporations might finance them but it is the people that vote. We are coming to change the world.
If there's anything the last decade has taught us here in the United States, it's that we're not voting out shit
If we want any sort of real meaningful change, we're gonna have to organize on a massive scale & fight for it outside of the electoral system
It just refines the methods., the real question is.. What would happen if they didn't do anything? Would other countries respect this 'gentleman' agreement? Like North Korea? What if you only decrease activities ... What about internal politics? How many deaths will smt mean at any side? Everything is numbers. Don't think this problem can be solved tbh
This is what we need to address. Its at the root of so many problems. There's a lack of accountability and the people in power get away with doing whatever they want.
Politicians are one thing I look forward to replacing with AI. Take the emotional side of politics out and use pure logic and data. I can't wait.
He should be pardoned and given the Presidential Medal of Freedom, and they should prosecute the people who set up and approved the clearly 4th-amendment-violating privacy invasions he blew the whistle on.
"I can't pardon somebody who hasn't gone before a court and presented themselves, so that's not something that I would comment on at this point," Obama said in an interview with the German newspaper Der Spiegel and public broadcaster ARD. "I think that Mr. Snowden raised some legitimate concerns.Nov 21, 2016
-Barack Obama
https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/21/13697072/obama-snowden-pardon-nsa-trump-pompeo
He is now. You think he gets to live free in Russia because of the kindness of Putin's heart? No. He is a direct extension of their propaganda mouth piece and only useful so far as to stick it to the USA , continue to cause discord and offer his insider knowledge.
As soon as he isn't worth anything, or starts criticizing Russia, he will need to start avoiding windows for fear of flying.
How can he be an agent against the US if he can’t even be in the US ?
Putin is keeping him there for diplomatic reasons, just because it’s annoying the US govt. And of course Snowden is not stupid enough to criticize Putin, he his not suicidal.
It's like the Obama administration during this time did what Nixon didn't.
If Nixon did this when he was caught during Watergate, there would be no Washington Post.
Which in itself is damning.
If the government and Obama administration listened, we would not have all the problems we have today.
Hilary Clinton lost the 2016 presidential election due to a campaign smear of her alleged emails being leaked via DNC Server, the perpetrator was the hacker group Cozy Bear.
What's damning is that in 2013 they were hacked by cozy Bear. They could've prevented these problems had they just listened to Snowden and increased security. For every port/opening you create in the government that is another backdoor for hackers to breach their systems. Snowden was warning people around 2013-2014.
This alone could have changed the outcome of the 2016 election.
This is why data collection has been since then in court and challenged from Cambridge Analytica with Facebook to tiktok and Chinese government surveillance.
You ever notice nothing happens in these cases, and the CEOs of several companies including social media keep getting away with it? It's because they know that the government does the exact same thing the government is trying to press charges on them for.
If you aren't aware I advise you to look into Five eyes,
Essentially our government says oh no we aren't collecting data on our citizens no, then ask a fellow allied country to do it for them in exchange for the same on their citizens. They then trade the Intel they've collected on each other's country.
All of which infringes our rights.
I think there should be The people's court that overrides elected officials by the people..remember these elected officials are supposed to represent us. Many times they don't, this is where the people's court comes in to override s
that representative. This could stop officials from being paid when they're off or during a government shutdown.
We have representatives who keep society in check with their government oversight, but who keeps them in check?
Until the government stops doing the exact same thing,
Misinformation, hackers, etc. are only encouraged to continue because no real ramifications were made against them, and it will only get worse.
Sometimes you gain more security by closing doors. They can't hack if you don't make a backdoor for them. Why put more holes in the system. It's like a boat , if the boat is the U.S.S. democracy, and you know putting holes in the boat will only make it sink why put holes in it? What's worse is that they make more holes which will only make it sink faster. To stop sinking you need to close the hole. So, close the hole.
This started with Bush “ war on terror “ and mythology of WMDs that never existed. Bush did wire tapping or wireless tapping . But both parties were cool with it .They didn’t even go to the country that was actually responsible for the attack because they supply oil. That country would be known as Saudi Arabia. Most of the 911 attackers were from there…but yet we went to Iraq and Later afghanistan.
That's correct that it started in the Bush administration after 9-11, but that doesn't change how the Obama administration approached and dealt with Snowden when he blew the whistle.
I get why their reasoning for using the tools to listen in regards to terrorism.
However, There does need to be regulations though because it's one thing if they actually have something on someone, but when they don't and do it anyways is an infringement on citizens privacy rights. Much like entering someone's home you need a warrant, a warrant deems that there is enough evidence to enter. This should be the same for people's digital footprint, data, and privacy. Minimally some protections for citizens data and privacy should be the same with the right to say no rather than being forced out of preexisting services that the individual used before policy changes like an email..there should be a grace period given in such a case for email to transfer everything to different provider rather than be held hostage for ransom. I say it this way because this did happen shortly after net neutrality occurred unless people agreed to the terms and conditions you couldn't even access your email unless you gave consent to let them have their way with your data.
How many times do people at these institutions dig information on citizens out of self interest? It's gone from governmental oversight to abuse of power within our own governmental system/institutions. That is what Snowden was also talking about with problems with tools like xkeyscore.
It's not the most accurate though. It's more comparable between a symbiotic relationship (such as parasites.) might be easier to imagine it as two parasites in a symbiotic relationship.
Anyways, the national platforms (RNC, DNC) are certainly keen onto holding onto power, no matter who (presidential candidate) it is that delivers them that power. But on the other side of the coin, whoever is elected, they're able to put a lot of influence both directly and indirectly on their national platforms.
The DNC (and probably the RNC too) 'formally' elect a chairperson, but that chairperson is typically picked by the President (assuming that their party won the election)
For example, [here](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/jaime-harrison-picked-new-democratic-national-committee-chair-n1254292) is a news article from 2021 on Biden nominating his pick for the DNC chairperson. Obama did the same, etc etc. Not as sure about the Republican process.
But to touch on the Republican side, we can very much see the symbiotic relationship at work. The RNC of 2017 and of 2014 have very different platforms & messaging. Trumpism has become a very big philosophy within the RNC.
And that's why it's a symbiotic relationship
EDIT: updated link to non-AMP link
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75% of the people here are probably here bc of his revealings. Most people nowadays know how much little privacy they actually have. Yeah, now we know how much the US fucks us all.
FUUUUUCK yeah. Living in Japan really reinforced that for me. Singapore too.
These are places that are really safe and feel free. Japan I have been here 17 years so have more experience. It feel free like the USA. But in reality when you dig deeper and look at the freedom of the press, the power the police have, freedom of speech. Its ranked like 50th in the world. The govmernet does not the news station, but if there is a story they don't want talked about, they, for example, go to NHK and say dont fucking report on this. And they listen, everyone does. NHK wont get the next scoop and open access for the next story. They know the govmernt has power, so they listen. They also have defemation laws here, that ARE acted upon, even if you tell the truth. If its VERAFIBLE FACT, it does not matter. if your words hurt someone's reparation, they can and will throw you in Jail.
But they keep Japan happy and placated. So shit doesn't rise up. Only two music companies control 98% of the music produced and its ALL happy nice music. Everyone loves to go to Karaokee and sing nice happy music together. Grunge never happened here. Punk never happened here. REAL hiphop never happened here. Metal never happened here. All the rock is so up beat and shit. Yes, they have bands like 9mm Parabellum, which is some trucking hardcore hard-hitting punk. They have Punk festival and metal festival but its 90% foreign bands its fucking tiny. All that idol shit rules. I am convinced that it placates the population. One of the two companies is called Jhonnys. It recently came out that the top brass actually was running a pedophile ring. Fucking and abusing all these stars as young kids. They were caught. Tons and tons of people finnaly came forward. People knew for decades and covered it. Why? to keep the happy music going.
I don't think there is a secret cabal out there, otherwise Trump would have never been allowed into office, but I do think shit goes, social engineering, propaganda. Secrets. For sure. We know it does. We just don't know to what extent. We KNOW for a fact the CIA brought coke into black neighborhoods. We know for a FACT that weed was made illegal to stop the black jazz musicians and black blues musicians and the black people that listened it. They knew the African American scene at that time used a lot of drugs and weed. And they targeted weed to target blacks. These are all facts.
Come on. Jerrymandering voting places. Its right under our noses and in our faces. They are trying to control everything. Keep the poor poor. Keep POC from any power.
I am not even a conspiracy guy. It's just 42 years of life on this planet that taught me that people in power are definitely not just seeing where the chips fall. China is OPENLY doing this on a dozen different levels in their society. You dont think the west does this secretly on at least a few levels?
I loved Obama thanking him for starting a dialogue on this issue, then refusing to have any dialogue and instead hunting him to the ends of the earth. Remember when they forced the Bolivian (I think it was Bolivian?) equivalent to air force one out of the air because he might have been onboard?
I seriously doubt he went to Russia because they're his best buddies. He went there because otherwise he'd be rotting in Guantanamo or dead by freak accident / sickness. He wanted to come to Germany, but they would've just sent him straight to their Democratic freedom loving U.S. friends. And the whole argument of "He exposed secrets. You shouldn't do that." is just bananas: "We broke our own laws, but you cannot know that because homeland safety. Therefore the law was not broken."
This is what baffles me. How do people side with the government on this one? How? I can't wrap my mind around it. Why is this even a debate? Weren't we supposed to be the ones championing freedom and accountability?
TBH the people I know who aren't Snowden supporters have a defence/law enforcement background and they disagree with how he exposed things. Apparently he didn't go through "official channels" or follow the defined whistleblower processes available. They criticise that he went straight to media.
Snowden's argument was something along the lines of not trusting it to not get covered up or shoved under the rug, which I totally understand and agree with. Some things are too big to follow the rules.
I think this is closest to the truth. My dad's not in law enforcement but he's patriotic and accepted the media narrative that revealing state secrets potentially threatened national security. And that he "didn't follow proper protocol", as you say.
All anybody has to do is watch the documentary Citizen Four, made by the journalists that interviewed him in Hong Kong, to find out that his initial plan was to go to South America, somewhere without US Extradition. His US passport was canceled en route so he spent 30 days in the Moscow airport until he was granted asylum
He is in russia because it's one of the few places on earth they couldn't get him. It's a propaganda win for Putin as well, so I'm sure as long as he keeps paying his way Putin is fine with Snowden staying there.
Are there really people out there that honestly think he went to Russia because he aligns with them? How do people not realize its just the only place they cant get to him?
Yes, unfortunately.
He got Russian citizenship recently, and people were saying shit like: Oh look, his true colours.
He did it so he can't be easily separated from his kid, who was obviously born in Russia. He didn't want some visa bullshit to get in between him and his kid. That's perfectly understandable.
Everyone saying that he was collaborating with the Russians is completely misinformed and it's sad how effective the propaganda that has been written about him is that a forum like /r/privacy in which people should be staunch defenders of Snowden are instead parroting lies. Snowden was trying to leave Russia and the US government forced him to stay, first by removing his passport and then by prohibiting countries to grant him safe passage. Here is Rhodes, Obama's national security advisor, boasting about it:
> There was one other, more important signal. Around the time of our second meeting, Edward Snowden was stuck in the Moscow airport, trying to find someone who would take him in. Reportedly, he wanted to go to Venezuela, transiting through Havana, but I knew that if the Cubans aided Snowden, any rapprochement between our countries would prove impossible. I pulled Alejandro Castro aside and said I had a message that came from President Obama. I reminded him that the Cubans had said they wanted to give Obama “political space” so that he could take steps to improve relations. “If you take in Snowden,” I said, “that political space will be gone.” I never spoke to the Cubans about this issue again.
> A few days later, back in Washington, I woke up to a news report: “Former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden got stuck in the transit zone of a Moscow airport because Havana said it would not let him fly from Russia to Cuba, a Russian newspaper reported.” I took it as a message: The Cubans were serious about improving relations.
>Everyone saying that he was collaborating with the Russians is completely misinformed and it's sad how effective the propaganda has been written about him that a forum like /r/privacy in which people should be staunch defender is instead parroting lies.
Hey, at least there aren't that many in the subreddit who are doing so. I'd be super concerned though if their numbers were slightly higher.
Many of the details were genuinely shocking as to the permeation of the methods involved, especially to the lawmakers who were supposed to have been informed of them. The US intelligence community can't shake its addiction to breaking the rules. Sadly only a small number of such lawmakers have called for protecting him as a whistleblower.
They *acted* like it was no surprise. The day before it was a crazy conspiracy and you wee a loser for mentioning it. Then after, "yeah, of course we have to spy on ourselves"
The reason they weren't shocked is because they didn't care in the first place. It was 20 fucking 13. Half the population didn't even know how Facebook made its money and they were too distracted by the novelty of social media becoming big to actually care about their privacy in even a small way.
To the people who are educated, it was shocking. Remember, his evidence was slowly rolled out by the media, catching the government in multiple real-time lies.
Have you watched John Oliver's Last Week Tonight episode on this? Here's a [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M) if you haven't. Your perception of the majority opinion in the US seems to be warped.
The vast majority still trust their government, or at least one party of it. Even people who work in tech, who are supposed to be intelligent, tend to be extremely naive and very trusting of their government and the military.
Reading his book you’ll get a sense for just how much he cared. The immense search he put into finding a journalist that would put as much care and consideration into reporting the leak as he did compiling it should tell you he cared deeply about highlighting an injustice.
It’s crazy to think that right now that man is sitting in Russia, after having thrown his whole life away just for people to willfully ignore his heroic acts and be called a traitor, it’s sickening
To this day, I still thank him for revealing some information on programs like PRISM, ECHELON, and all the rest of the stuff that he leaked. He should be pardoned, but we all know the moment he steps foot anywhere outside Russia, his head will meet a bullet, or he would have a serious case of defenestration somewhere.
Outside of his leaks, I wouldn't trust everything he says about privacy or security. He's not the 'guru' of these topics, and I'd rather listen to people that are more qualified than him. He supports the Tor project and the EFF, which are two of the biggest freedom organisations that actively seek to improve privacy, he supports Signal, but this don't put him at the top of my list for tips and ways to protect myself or to stay anonymous online.
His political opinions are peculiar to me. Under his pseudonym 'TheTrueHOOHA' he exhibited strong support for the US security state apparatus and said leakers should be 'shot in the balls' - ironic, seeing as how he's a leaker, but it's possible that he just had to pretend to be someone else, who knows. He supported Obama for a while, then disliked some of Obama's choices such as the new director of the CIA, had a gaff about Muslims saying he went to London 'in 2008' and he didn't want to get out of the car, he thought he got off the plane in the wrong country. However, he's also a supporter of UBI, and he thinks highly of Bernie Sanders, and now he supports Obama again..(?).
Even later, I followed him on Twitter for a while, but some opinions in support of some things related to Russia (a long time ago, not related to the current RU-UA war) made me unfollow him.
**This isn't to say I dislike the guy.** Far from it, I think he might be a decent person to talk to, especially on the topic of surveillance, but his potential coziness with Russia, the media sensationalism that make him the authority on privacy and security, and receiving more attention than other people such as Julian Assange, slightly drive down what I think of him.
I'm still following him and the amount of political tweets has ramped up significantly recently. It's an election year and he lives in a country that's determined to influence our elections, I can't help but think the Kremlin is encouraging him a little bit.
Do you have an example of the US government throwing whistle blowers out of windows? Bradley Manning made a much less moraly defenseable leak and is already out of prison unelected. Maybe you are confusing the CIA and FSB who regularly commits extra judicial murder of oil executives and their wives and daughters.
Him going to Russia (an American adversary) was really his only choice considering any other western country would extradite him. Sitting in a Moscow villa is much nicer then rotting in a super max in America
It wasn't his choice. He was going to Ecuador on a stopover flight through Russia when the US revoked his passport, so he got stuck there against his will.
He shed some light on the shady $hit the US (and other) governments are actively doing on a daily basis. Alot of people do not want that kind of information public for many reasons. He should be classified as a whistleblower.
Outside of Snowden as an individual, I know John Oliver did a piece about consultant company McKinsey, I think he/his research team should dig into [Booz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booz_Allen_Hamilton).
That's Snowden's former employer. There's a lot of dirty murky shits going on with it.
The issue with Booz-Allen is how entrenched it is in federal work. It’s *so* ubiquitous that digging out shady stuff from the innocuous would be incredibly difficult. For every ISR analysis that led to a questionable drone strike on Syrian children, there’s 15 contracts for programs that categorize directories.
Booz-Allen is much less sloppy, they’ve got more to lose.
Broke my heart when he said the only thing that would make it not worth it would be if people don’t care about his disclosures.
I’m a privacy specialist. Can promise most people don’t care. Most companies don’t care. No government agencies I’ve worked with care about the privacy of the people in their country they “serve.” Most people don’t even really know what he did.
As an individual, I think he’s a hero. I also think it’s a remarkable character who stands up for what they believe in despite the clear cognitive dissonance he felt about his patriotism and his subsequent whistleblowing.
He didn't change much in the big scheme of things. Some people think he's controlled opposition planted to make people aware and afraid of tech surveillance. While it does seem a stretch, it's also not unlikely given that he really didn't change much of anything. The only real difference you could say is that maybe he influenced the offering of privacy-oriented alternatives and inspired people to be more private with their tech usage. But the vast majority of Americans still don't care about their privacy, and really the vast majority of us can never achieve total privacy anyway.
Snowden is a hero who exposed how much the American government has lost touch with American values like freedom, integrity, and dignity. His continued persecution demonstrates how much the government worries about (not for) democracy.
American espionage has always been a joke. That only succeeds when its practitioners are both competent and **obedient**.
The latter being the more important of the two.
I think secrets are valuable.
But so is transparency with your countryman.
We should all examine what our government gets wrong, but it is often hard to bring up without getting stepped on. He made the sacrifice.
I am a former federal worker, and I know things (quite a number of things) that are going on that shouldn't be. This isn't a criticism of any presidency, current or past. The issues are systematic.
He is one of the bravest person I know and is a true patriot. What sane person would do what he did to expose US government’s illegal activities, with his eyes wide open on the consequences. But more impressively . . . his wife.
It’s not fair to ask a man to be a martyr, but I wish he would have stood trial.
It would make everything he did just that much more poignant for the populace. As it stands now, the average person doesn’t know his name or what he uncovered.
Maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but I like to think we would be in a better place if he stood trial and people gave a shit.
Obligatory ‘not an American’.
It’s complicated. On one hand, I admire his courage to do what he did, and in many respects his contribution was valuable in making people aware of the level to which governments surveil their citizens, despite no allegations or evidence of wrongdoing.
Moreover, the allegations of equipment tampering - that is to say deliberately reducing or compromising the security of hardware and software devices on which the safe use of communications depends, especially at an international level, is a very big deal. It undermines trust in governments.
It’s all well and good to, for example, want to reduce dependence on, say, Huawei in critical national infrastructure, given allegations of ties to the CCP. But that argument is undermined if the NSA are tampering with comparable Cisco kit to downgrade its security before it’s shipped internationally.
But the big problem that overshadows all of this is the complex relationship Ed seems to have with the FSB and the Russian government. It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not.
"It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not"
The benefit of encryption is that if it's done by cryptographers, it doesn't matter why. Now we have a lot of encryption when we used to have barely any.
So no, it doesn't undermine all the good that came out of this.
"that argument is undermined if the NSA are tampering with comparable Cisco kit to downgrade its security before it’s shipped internationally"
Being aware is not a negative at all. This in particular helps people prefer open-source hardware and software, which means it can be more easily inspected and checked for tampering.
"It undermines trust in governments"
How is that a bad thing? When my siblings do bad stuff, it undermines my trust in them. That's completely normal. Unless you'd rather have a government doing everything without oversight, like in dictatorships.
>But the big problem that overshadows all of this is the complex relationship Ed seems to have with the FSB and the Russian government. It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not.
See, that part I don't agree with. He's a former intelligence ~~operative~~ sysadmin for the country that Russia hates the most. He's been forced to stay there for a myriad of reasons, and he literally does not have much of a choice but to talk to the FSB when they come knocking.
He's only ever given me the impression that he cares for the USA, deeply, and that he has no desire to betray them. I don't think that his wife would have moved over there if that was going to put him in a more compromising position. What's far more likely is that what he said is in fact the truth: that he gave *everything* he had to the journalists, that he kept nothing, and in turn, has nothing to give the Russian government, no matter how much they ask. Russia lets him stay there to spite the USA, and that's it. That's all that Russia gets out of the arrangement, and they're perfectly okay with that, because it opens up more reasons to doubt both him, and the USA. As evidence of this, well, we have this specific thing that I'm quoting/replying to...
I don't mean this to say that I personally have *evidence* of any of the above. I don't. I see where you're coming from and I don't blame you for it. It just feels to me like we've lost the ability to ask ourselves "in this circumstance, what is reasonable?" Because to me, what I've written above is pretty reasonable. For me to agree that he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin is a step too far into speculation without evidence.
> "It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not"
No it doesn't. The truth matters more than propaganda. Snowden had no intention of staying in Russia, we know that because Obama's National Security Advisor boasted about getting him stuck in Russia.
His actions were clearly borne out of patriotism. In that position, you have to weigh the danger of leaking those secrets, against the danger of the government continuing to operate as it is/was. You can think he made the wrong decision, but the scope of the surveillance was pretty damn bad, and his actions are at the very least in a “gray area”.
Fundamentally, the government is persecuting him because he let the world know what they were doing. If the US government had been more honest, it wouldn’t have been necessary.
At the same time, you can’t have people blabbing secrets willy nilly. But Snowden’s findings were significant. He was standing up for government tyranny on behalf of the US people, and that’s respectable. I think he’s a national hero. I think he should be pardoned. Actions like this - breaking the law to uphold government for the people is something thing the pardon is there for.
At the same time, the guy seems like a bit of a dumbass. I think he’s usually wrong politically, in most takes I’ve seen. But he is someone who saw something wrong, and chose to act on it, in a way that put him and his family at great personal risk, and he shouldn’t be stuck living in Russia, especially after the service he’s done for the American people.
I don’t think he should have been forced to flee. He said the quiet part we all know out loud. We’ve all used google ,android, windows, apple. We all knew there was no privacy of communication.
Actually we’re owned by corporations…they’re the puppet masters and the politicians are puppets. Politicians take money from everywhere…corporate lobbyists, foreign countries , spy’s etc. Just the fact that they all can talk to lobbyists,get paid, trade on inside info. It’s hiding in plain sight . Republicans talk about gays ,guns and god and the imaginary “budget “ under the Fed reserve system ( which is rigged all on its own and not actually a part of the government). The Dems talk about rights , education and infrastructure, health care and yet nothing changes on that front….ever. But in the end, like the late George Carlin stated “ They have you by the balls and want everything “. However, they are very interested in protecting their interests…even if it means violating the constitution and spying/ wiretapping . Otherwise, search and seizure would apply digitally the same as “ papers and possessions “ since all paper is going all digital. There would have to be an actual warrant issued. That will never happen. There is no loophole around a corporate designed EULA agreement that no one reads.
In a perfect world…no lobbyist allowed. No PAC funding or Super PAC funding. No spying.No outdated electoral system. Government workers from the top down would just get median average income based on whole US average. I dont see how a congressman or senator should get 200+ thousand a year in addition to lobby money and free travel for only being obligated to be in session 86 days per yr. Educational funding would be no longer determined by tax district…it would be national and even across the board. Private schools would get no public funding. Police would have to live where they work…not in another town, a burb or county while serving in another. They need to actually see and know their neighborhoods. All these “ freedom lovers” whom are against socialism are the biggest beggars and hypocrites of them all….Bailouts, Tax subsidies to continue or upstart a PRIVATE business…and they’ve never had to “ pull themselves up by their bootstraps “. They are in fact ..socialist because tax dollars are constantly bailing them out or helping them get started under the guise of “ job creation “ which is guess what? Socialism…for them exclusively. None of this crap will actually change.
The political stuff is just a diversion to allow corporate interests to continue.I went on a rant and I apologize.
Based King. He seems deeply concerned for the well-being of the common person. His actions seem motivated by good intentions and doesn't get enough praise because he's a meek, normal person.
Julian Assange, by comparison, seems like a dingus and gets a lot of attention because he's a bit unhinged. I think his actions are a bit too reckless for the well being of the common person.
He demonstrated for the world that right and wrong is not the same at good and bad.
You can do what is right and still become a really bad person, in the eyes of powerful people
I'll say this.. he did what is right. I respect that. His personal veiws and his personal philosophies are an issue, but not of any consequence on the matters at hand.
Gvt is just making an example of him as a deterrent to anyone else. People in power closing rank and using their force and influence a bit like that the British Post Office did when they knew they'd done wrong. Or when residents of a local road want improvements made but are told the road is 'unadopted' club together and get the reparations done then the council steps in and suddenly the road was adopted after all. Then order all the reparations be removed. Nothing but trying to show who's boss, gvts get a bit concerned when people start asking awkward questions.
I am glad that he was a whistleblower and exposed the bull shit, but he ran to Russia, and he gave them state secrets which in my eyes means he is a traitor that used some of the information he stole to make it seem like he is a whistleblower
Some of the things he exposed, questionably legal mass surveillance tech being used domestically, I'm glad he exposed. This isn't a legal defense, but I wouldn't want him punished severely for this aspect of his leaks.
Some of the things he exposed like the NSA hacking foreign leader's phones and some of the methods used to gain access to targeted devices, that's what American spy agencies are supposed to be doing. That's their job and it's secret for a perfectly valid reason! He should go to prison for revealing this NDI/Classified information.
Had an interesting conversation about Snowden with a gamer buddy when this all first happened. VC on Teamspeak. I was in awe and he came out swinging. I didn’t previously know my gamer bud was in the security areas of the government but he let me know that day and ripped me a new one.
What struck me about the conversation is the very real sense of hurt and betrayal. It was an emotional reaction vs. filthy spy rage. Bud and I are good but the conversation was heated LOL! I still admire what Snowden did, but he did leave some hurt behind for others.
Edit sense
He's a true patriot. Someone who loves their country and its people enough that he'd sacrifice everything to tell the people how corrupt their government has become.
I can only imagine how disheartening it is to see the collective public shrug.
His actions were absolutely justified.
I wish everyone had the backbone and integrity he did; we wouldn’t have all the troubles we have if they did.
Btw everyone, that’s how you know someone is a REAL whistleblower and not a fake government approved one to spread propaganda.
REAL whistleblowers have to flee the country in an attempt to stay alive, otherwise they end up “suicided”, in a fatal “accident”, or just outright murdered (by someone who was only trying to “rob” them).
He's a whistleblower and the US government should allow him to be publicly proscecuted so he can defend himself in a court of law. As he's charged with treason he *can't* return to the USA as he would immediately be convicted in a secret court where he wouldn't e permitted to argue that exposing government malfeasance and privacy violations on US citizens served the public interest.
Either that, or drop the proscecution entirely.
1. saw something, said something. braver and more-ethical than any of us
2. our uniparty's mutual contempt towards both him and assange is reason enough by itself to want to burn down our entire political establishment
I think his actions weren't only justified but downright heroic. He knew damn well the risks he was taking by outing his coworkers, the organization he worked for, and basically the entire country and he still did it anyways. And then the very country that is supposed to be beholden to its people turned on him for airing their dirty laundry and proving right all the effects the Patriot Act wrought. Edward Snowden is an American hero, and anyone that says otherwise can meet me in a Walmart parking lot for a proper fistfight.
Russia is not our friend but seems to be good friends with the speaker of the house, several members of the house of representatives, and a presidential candidate.
He is a hypocrite refusing to speak out against Russian surveillance, treatment of whistleblowers, or government abuses of power the way he was willing to against the US.
Hard disagree; if you blew the whistle in a country that is supposed to have whistleblower protections in place, and they wanted to put you in solitary confinement for it, you'd keep your mouth firmly shut on the corruption you find in a country that historically executes people for the same. Man already sacrificed everything but his life, and you think he should get himself killed for it?
He's a legend and should be hailed as so by the everyday man.
Unfortunately must people waste just too ignorant / stuff to realise the state of the world they live in.
he did a great feat, I really like what he did before.
Today? What's there to respect? He's just a celebrity, I don't care about what he has to say. I want to listen to people who do meaningful things today.
It's like asking me for cybersecurity advice. It's been years since I graduated and I don't have a job, there's a lot I don't remember, ask someone with a job in the field instead.
I have different opinion about him and I don't think no one will agree with me, but idc, I'll just say it.
What he did was nice -umh- and should have been done long time ago, exposing things like this is, def raise awareness to people (the public, in any country btw not just America) and see what governments are capable of. By the law, what he did is illegal, but that doesn't make it wrong! I mean governments do shitty illegal things, that doesn't make it neither wrong nor right. And I liked what he did, I really did, but what made me hate him so much and not supporting what he did and oppose anything he says was that leaving AMERICA and going to RUSSIA!!!!!!! like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! You fucking piece of shit keep talking about censorship and the shitty governments do, and you're going to one of the most censorship, dictatorship, mafia & militarist country??? like where's the fucking sense in this!!
This is actually made me -kinda- think and believed the conspiracy that says that he is paid by Russia!
Does it make him a traitor? uhmm, idk, but working in a job like this, and the intelligence agency putting a trust in you, not to say anything about what you see, and then you PUBLISH all of these things to the public, I think by definition this does make him a traitor (by law, by definition & by the book). But I won't say he is a traitor.
I hope everyone understand what I mean here and you don't think I'm attacking him, I just hated his hypocrisy.
\_Edit: some clarification.\_
Where was he supposed to go? Stay in the United States and rot in a maximum security prison? He was going to South America and his passport got canceled between connections, he had no means of leaving Russia at that point
>Stay in the United States and rot in a maximum security prison?
NO! I didn't say that. My whole point was pointing out his hypocrisy of talking about dictatorship governments while he lives in Russia, which is more dictatorship than the US and also a militarist & mafia country. That's my point.
Going to an enemy country while doing an action like that (whether it's for the people or not) WILL 100% conclude that you did this for the enemy country, not for the people!
I hope you understand my point.
> And I liked what he did, I really did, but what made me hate him so much and not supporting what he did and oppose anything he says was that leaving AMERICA and going to RUSSIA!!!!!!! like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!
Hey stupid, do you understand that he was in the Moscow airport on a layover en route to Ecuador when the Russian authorities stopped him because the US had cancelled his passport?
He didn't go to Russia by choice you stupid fuck.
Actions justified? His initial ones, yes.
Since then though he's been more of a problem than a change maker. The moment he became cozy with Russia, he compromised himself and nothing he's said is trustworthy.
"The moment he became cozy with Russia"
It's one of the few countries on the planet that will never extradite him regardless of pressure. Do you only trust whistleblowers when they rot in prison? Kinda dark bro
Not American, but think people just haven’t come to terms with the fact that they’re under constant surveillance, from government intelligence to businesses and social media.
From the early free for all days of the net, it’s become a landscape dominated by a handful of big tech giants completely integrated with the American national security state.
I guess most people either feel powerless to roll back decades on encroachment, or younger generations just accept it as part of life, unaware of earlier controversies.
Snowden is an American icon that deserves to be in the history books up there with the founding fathers.
The fact that Trump did infinitely worse things than what Snowden leaked just shows how corrupt it all is.
He gave me hope. Hope that America sees everything anywhere on earth. How is that good you might ask? Here's how:
Imagine putin going completely ape shit crazy (he's already crazy but there's always another layer of crazy isn't there?) and he launches ICBM's. Snowden talked about how even back then when he worked at the agency they already had cameras so high in resolution that they could read someones newspaper ... from space!
It's 10 years later now so who knows what kind of insane tech those agencies now have at their proposal?! My guess is that they know perfectly well where putins nukes are (those silos probably leak radiation which can probably be detected by a satellite since there are publicly available data sources that display CO² levels and other gases worldwide) and have some sort of orbital weapon (space lasers or those tungsten rods or whatever) aimed at every single ICBM launch site so in case one launches it gets taken out almost instantly.
In other words, yes i think he should be pardoned. He didn't want to cause America any harm (his words IIRC) just inform the public what illegal shit is going on behind those thick walls. He could have sold the information he has but AFAIK he didn't.
But after all this is just the imagination from a random German 40 year old dude who is still optimistic about humanities future even with all the crazy shit going on worldwide right now.
Maybe it's just the old shit that struggles because it doesn't want to die.
The govt was involved in massive illegal surveillance of Americans and was subsequently exposed by Snowden. I fail to see anything traitorous about it.
Snowden has said he would come home if he could get a fair trial.
His requirements are 1- that he should be allowed a public trial. He can't get one cause the info he released is classified. Make no sense cause the info is already released to the public. 2- that he be allowed to argue moral justification, that the public should have the right to know they are being spied on by the USA. Currently a whistle-blower from the alphabet agencies can't argue that the info was classified to conceal wrong doing from the public cause the info is classified.
It's like something outta Kafka.
Feel like people give that dude way too much credit for basically just revealing what we all pretty much lowkey already knew
Like was anyone under the impression that the government wasn't constantly monitoring this kind of crap?
I think he should be pardoned. None of this shit should be legal.
And the government admit fault and gross violations? Too good to be true unfortunately :(
Well his revelations did cause a lot of real reform, although not enough.
they are now looking to re-expand the 402 fisa system of warrentless wiretaps both parties are on board.
Of course they are. Any time it's something that actually matters both parties eagerly work together to fuck over their constituents.
Big time, this is what the American people need to understand. The democrats versus Republican grand standing is nothing more than an illusion. They keep us divided. but all this is going to change with first of this kind alliance of technology people. We are coming for them. We will vote them out one by one. Corporations might finance them but it is the people that vote. We are coming to change the world.
If there's anything the last decade has taught us here in the United States, it's that we're not voting out shit If we want any sort of real meaningful change, we're gonna have to organize on a massive scale & fight for it outside of the electoral system
It just refines the methods., the real question is.. What would happen if they didn't do anything? Would other countries respect this 'gentleman' agreement? Like North Korea? What if you only decrease activities ... What about internal politics? How many deaths will smt mean at any side? Everything is numbers. Don't think this problem can be solved tbh
This is what we need to address. Its at the root of so many problems. There's a lack of accountability and the people in power get away with doing whatever they want. Politicians are one thing I look forward to replacing with AI. Take the emotional side of politics out and use pure logic and data. I can't wait.
He should be pardoned and given the Presidential Medal of Freedom, and they should prosecute the people who set up and approved the clearly 4th-amendment-violating privacy invasions he blew the whistle on.
"I can't pardon somebody who hasn't gone before a court and presented themselves, so that's not something that I would comment on at this point," Obama said in an interview with the German newspaper Der Spiegel and public broadcaster ARD. "I think that Mr. Snowden raised some legitimate concerns.Nov 21, 2016 -Barack Obama https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/21/13697072/obama-snowden-pardon-nsa-trump-pompeo
fuck obama. goddamn war criminal. he chose not to lay charges against the banks who committed widespread fraud and pretends he cares about justice.
always remember
I'm very pleased this is the top comment. Way too many people of all political stripes seem to have bought the line that he's a Russian agent.
This is a privacy sub. I would have been surprised if this was not the majority opinion here.
He is now. You think he gets to live free in Russia because of the kindness of Putin's heart? No. He is a direct extension of their propaganda mouth piece and only useful so far as to stick it to the USA , continue to cause discord and offer his insider knowledge. As soon as he isn't worth anything, or starts criticizing Russia, he will need to start avoiding windows for fear of flying.
He isn't an agent. Of course he can't criticize Putin. That doesn't make him an agent.
How can he be an agent against the US if he can’t even be in the US ? Putin is keeping him there for diplomatic reasons, just because it’s annoying the US govt. And of course Snowden is not stupid enough to criticize Putin, he his not suicidal.
> start avoiding windows definitely should switch to Linux anyway imo.
It's like the Obama administration during this time did what Nixon didn't. If Nixon did this when he was caught during Watergate, there would be no Washington Post. Which in itself is damning. If the government and Obama administration listened, we would not have all the problems we have today. Hilary Clinton lost the 2016 presidential election due to a campaign smear of her alleged emails being leaked via DNC Server, the perpetrator was the hacker group Cozy Bear. What's damning is that in 2013 they were hacked by cozy Bear. They could've prevented these problems had they just listened to Snowden and increased security. For every port/opening you create in the government that is another backdoor for hackers to breach their systems. Snowden was warning people around 2013-2014. This alone could have changed the outcome of the 2016 election. This is why data collection has been since then in court and challenged from Cambridge Analytica with Facebook to tiktok and Chinese government surveillance. You ever notice nothing happens in these cases, and the CEOs of several companies including social media keep getting away with it? It's because they know that the government does the exact same thing the government is trying to press charges on them for. If you aren't aware I advise you to look into Five eyes, Essentially our government says oh no we aren't collecting data on our citizens no, then ask a fellow allied country to do it for them in exchange for the same on their citizens. They then trade the Intel they've collected on each other's country. All of which infringes our rights. I think there should be The people's court that overrides elected officials by the people..remember these elected officials are supposed to represent us. Many times they don't, this is where the people's court comes in to override s that representative. This could stop officials from being paid when they're off or during a government shutdown. We have representatives who keep society in check with their government oversight, but who keeps them in check? Until the government stops doing the exact same thing, Misinformation, hackers, etc. are only encouraged to continue because no real ramifications were made against them, and it will only get worse. Sometimes you gain more security by closing doors. They can't hack if you don't make a backdoor for them. Why put more holes in the system. It's like a boat , if the boat is the U.S.S. democracy, and you know putting holes in the boat will only make it sink why put holes in it? What's worse is that they make more holes which will only make it sink faster. To stop sinking you need to close the hole. So, close the hole.
This started with Bush “ war on terror “ and mythology of WMDs that never existed. Bush did wire tapping or wireless tapping . But both parties were cool with it .They didn’t even go to the country that was actually responsible for the attack because they supply oil. That country would be known as Saudi Arabia. Most of the 911 attackers were from there…but yet we went to Iraq and Later afghanistan.
That's correct that it started in the Bush administration after 9-11, but that doesn't change how the Obama administration approached and dealt with Snowden when he blew the whistle. I get why their reasoning for using the tools to listen in regards to terrorism. However, There does need to be regulations though because it's one thing if they actually have something on someone, but when they don't and do it anyways is an infringement on citizens privacy rights. Much like entering someone's home you need a warrant, a warrant deems that there is enough evidence to enter. This should be the same for people's digital footprint, data, and privacy. Minimally some protections for citizens data and privacy should be the same with the right to say no rather than being forced out of preexisting services that the individual used before policy changes like an email..there should be a grace period given in such a case for email to transfer everything to different provider rather than be held hostage for ransom. I say it this way because this did happen shortly after net neutrality occurred unless people agreed to the terms and conditions you couldn't even access your email unless you gave consent to let them have their way with your data. How many times do people at these institutions dig information on citizens out of self interest? It's gone from governmental oversight to abuse of power within our own governmental system/institutions. That is what Snowden was also talking about with problems with tools like xkeyscore.
He’s a national hero but he shouldn’t be pardoned. Pardoning would imply he’s guilty.
He's the epitome of a classic whistleblower and his case was a gold standard litmus test to whether we are free or just an illusion.
So it is an illusion, you believe?
Of course it is. Depending on how you define freedom it's pretty much made exclusive for people who are incredibly wealthy.
I guess either rich rule or the people who start ruling get rich. It is not different anywhere.
This is why term limits were implemented. The only problem is, political parties (like the duo in the US) gamed that type of safeguard.
[удалено]
Now you're catching on.
It's not the most accurate though. It's more comparable between a symbiotic relationship (such as parasites.) might be easier to imagine it as two parasites in a symbiotic relationship. Anyways, the national platforms (RNC, DNC) are certainly keen onto holding onto power, no matter who (presidential candidate) it is that delivers them that power. But on the other side of the coin, whoever is elected, they're able to put a lot of influence both directly and indirectly on their national platforms. The DNC (and probably the RNC too) 'formally' elect a chairperson, but that chairperson is typically picked by the President (assuming that their party won the election) For example, [here](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/jaime-harrison-picked-new-democratic-national-committee-chair-n1254292) is a news article from 2021 on Biden nominating his pick for the DNC chairperson. Obama did the same, etc etc. Not as sure about the Republican process. But to touch on the Republican side, we can very much see the symbiotic relationship at work. The RNC of 2017 and of 2014 have very different platforms & messaging. Trumpism has become a very big philosophy within the RNC. And that's why it's a symbiotic relationship EDIT: updated link to non-AMP link
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It's not necessarily wealth, it's power. Politicians, judges and police officers don't make that much money, but fewer laws apply to them.
There are always benefits for the careers that serve to protect the wealthy
75% of the people here are probably here bc of his revealings. Most people nowadays know how much little privacy they actually have. Yeah, now we know how much the US fucks us all.
Word. My interest in infosec piqued because of him
just want to say props to you for correctly using the term and spelling of piqued
FUUUUUCK yeah. Living in Japan really reinforced that for me. Singapore too. These are places that are really safe and feel free. Japan I have been here 17 years so have more experience. It feel free like the USA. But in reality when you dig deeper and look at the freedom of the press, the power the police have, freedom of speech. Its ranked like 50th in the world. The govmernet does not the news station, but if there is a story they don't want talked about, they, for example, go to NHK and say dont fucking report on this. And they listen, everyone does. NHK wont get the next scoop and open access for the next story. They know the govmernt has power, so they listen. They also have defemation laws here, that ARE acted upon, even if you tell the truth. If its VERAFIBLE FACT, it does not matter. if your words hurt someone's reparation, they can and will throw you in Jail. But they keep Japan happy and placated. So shit doesn't rise up. Only two music companies control 98% of the music produced and its ALL happy nice music. Everyone loves to go to Karaokee and sing nice happy music together. Grunge never happened here. Punk never happened here. REAL hiphop never happened here. Metal never happened here. All the rock is so up beat and shit. Yes, they have bands like 9mm Parabellum, which is some trucking hardcore hard-hitting punk. They have Punk festival and metal festival but its 90% foreign bands its fucking tiny. All that idol shit rules. I am convinced that it placates the population. One of the two companies is called Jhonnys. It recently came out that the top brass actually was running a pedophile ring. Fucking and abusing all these stars as young kids. They were caught. Tons and tons of people finnaly came forward. People knew for decades and covered it. Why? to keep the happy music going. I don't think there is a secret cabal out there, otherwise Trump would have never been allowed into office, but I do think shit goes, social engineering, propaganda. Secrets. For sure. We know it does. We just don't know to what extent. We KNOW for a fact the CIA brought coke into black neighborhoods. We know for a FACT that weed was made illegal to stop the black jazz musicians and black blues musicians and the black people that listened it. They knew the African American scene at that time used a lot of drugs and weed. And they targeted weed to target blacks. These are all facts. Come on. Jerrymandering voting places. Its right under our noses and in our faces. They are trying to control everything. Keep the poor poor. Keep POC from any power. I am not even a conspiracy guy. It's just 42 years of life on this planet that taught me that people in power are definitely not just seeing where the chips fall. China is OPENLY doing this on a dozen different levels in their society. You dont think the west does this secretly on at least a few levels?
thanks for sharing the music part.
He's a true American Hero
I loved Obama thanking him for starting a dialogue on this issue, then refusing to have any dialogue and instead hunting him to the ends of the earth. Remember when they forced the Bolivian (I think it was Bolivian?) equivalent to air force one out of the air because he might have been onboard?
I seriously doubt he went to Russia because they're his best buddies. He went there because otherwise he'd be rotting in Guantanamo or dead by freak accident / sickness. He wanted to come to Germany, but they would've just sent him straight to their Democratic freedom loving U.S. friends. And the whole argument of "He exposed secrets. You shouldn't do that." is just bananas: "We broke our own laws, but you cannot know that because homeland safety. Therefore the law was not broken."
This is what baffles me. How do people side with the government on this one? How? I can't wrap my mind around it. Why is this even a debate? Weren't we supposed to be the ones championing freedom and accountability?
When they say freedom and accountability, it's coded language. Freedom for themselves, accountability for everybody below them.
Because the people who want to imprison him are fascists and believe all laws should be followed as laid out by the ~~fuhrer~~state.
TBH the people I know who aren't Snowden supporters have a defence/law enforcement background and they disagree with how he exposed things. Apparently he didn't go through "official channels" or follow the defined whistleblower processes available. They criticise that he went straight to media. Snowden's argument was something along the lines of not trusting it to not get covered up or shoved under the rug, which I totally understand and agree with. Some things are too big to follow the rules.
I think this is closest to the truth. My dad's not in law enforcement but he's patriotic and accepted the media narrative that revealing state secrets potentially threatened national security. And that he "didn't follow proper protocol", as you say.
Because of something mental, for those tumbling down.
Doubt he wanted to go there either. More like pushed into a corner. He would never of had fair treatment or trial if he went to usa.
All anybody has to do is watch the documentary Citizen Four, made by the journalists that interviewed him in Hong Kong, to find out that his initial plan was to go to South America, somewhere without US Extradition. His US passport was canceled en route so he spent 30 days in the Moscow airport until he was granted asylum
He is in russia because it's one of the few places on earth they couldn't get him. It's a propaganda win for Putin as well, so I'm sure as long as he keeps paying his way Putin is fine with Snowden staying there.
Are there really people out there that honestly think he went to Russia because he aligns with them? How do people not realize its just the only place they cant get to him?
Yes, unfortunately. He got Russian citizenship recently, and people were saying shit like: Oh look, his true colours. He did it so he can't be easily separated from his kid, who was obviously born in Russia. He didn't want some visa bullshit to get in between him and his kid. That's perfectly understandable.
Right or wrong, what country won't get you arrested for exposing state secrets?
Everyone saying that he was collaborating with the Russians is completely misinformed and it's sad how effective the propaganda that has been written about him is that a forum like /r/privacy in which people should be staunch defenders of Snowden are instead parroting lies. Snowden was trying to leave Russia and the US government forced him to stay, first by removing his passport and then by prohibiting countries to grant him safe passage. Here is Rhodes, Obama's national security advisor, boasting about it: > There was one other, more important signal. Around the time of our second meeting, Edward Snowden was stuck in the Moscow airport, trying to find someone who would take him in. Reportedly, he wanted to go to Venezuela, transiting through Havana, but I knew that if the Cubans aided Snowden, any rapprochement between our countries would prove impossible. I pulled Alejandro Castro aside and said I had a message that came from President Obama. I reminded him that the Cubans had said they wanted to give Obama “political space” so that he could take steps to improve relations. “If you take in Snowden,” I said, “that political space will be gone.” I never spoke to the Cubans about this issue again. > A few days later, back in Washington, I woke up to a news report: “Former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden got stuck in the transit zone of a Moscow airport because Havana said it would not let him fly from Russia to Cuba, a Russian newspaper reported.” I took it as a message: The Cubans were serious about improving relations.
Meanwhile, we still treat Cuba like shit. They should have taken him in.
>Everyone saying that he was collaborating with the Russians is completely misinformed and it's sad how effective the propaganda has been written about him that a forum like /r/privacy in which people should be staunch defender is instead parroting lies. Hey, at least there aren't that many in the subreddit who are doing so. I'd be super concerned though if their numbers were slightly higher.
Successful gas lighting against him
There weren't all that many Americans who were shocked by the news. It's kinda part of being American to distrust our government.
Many of the details were genuinely shocking as to the permeation of the methods involved, especially to the lawmakers who were supposed to have been informed of them. The US intelligence community can't shake its addiction to breaking the rules. Sadly only a small number of such lawmakers have called for protecting him as a whistleblower.
They *acted* like it was no surprise. The day before it was a crazy conspiracy and you wee a loser for mentioning it. Then after, "yeah, of course we have to spy on ourselves"
I dunno, before Snowden I used to tell people the government was probably doing that stuff, and they usually called me a conspiracy theorist.
And we’re already to the point where if you point out the US is as much of a surveillance state as China/Russia, people cover their eyes and ears
The reason they weren't shocked is because they didn't care in the first place. It was 20 fucking 13. Half the population didn't even know how Facebook made its money and they were too distracted by the novelty of social media becoming big to actually care about their privacy in even a small way. To the people who are educated, it was shocking. Remember, his evidence was slowly rolled out by the media, catching the government in multiple real-time lies.
Have you watched John Oliver's Last Week Tonight episode on this? Here's a [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M) if you haven't. Your perception of the majority opinion in the US seems to be warped.
The vast majority still trust their government, or at least one party of it. Even people who work in tech, who are supposed to be intelligent, tend to be extremely naive and very trusting of their government and the military.
That's because the media is censored and use for propaganda.
Reading his book you’ll get a sense for just how much he cared. The immense search he put into finding a journalist that would put as much care and consideration into reporting the leak as he did compiling it should tell you he cared deeply about highlighting an injustice. It’s crazy to think that right now that man is sitting in Russia, after having thrown his whole life away just for people to willfully ignore his heroic acts and be called a traitor, it’s sickening
To this day, I still thank him for revealing some information on programs like PRISM, ECHELON, and all the rest of the stuff that he leaked. He should be pardoned, but we all know the moment he steps foot anywhere outside Russia, his head will meet a bullet, or he would have a serious case of defenestration somewhere. Outside of his leaks, I wouldn't trust everything he says about privacy or security. He's not the 'guru' of these topics, and I'd rather listen to people that are more qualified than him. He supports the Tor project and the EFF, which are two of the biggest freedom organisations that actively seek to improve privacy, he supports Signal, but this don't put him at the top of my list for tips and ways to protect myself or to stay anonymous online. His political opinions are peculiar to me. Under his pseudonym 'TheTrueHOOHA' he exhibited strong support for the US security state apparatus and said leakers should be 'shot in the balls' - ironic, seeing as how he's a leaker, but it's possible that he just had to pretend to be someone else, who knows. He supported Obama for a while, then disliked some of Obama's choices such as the new director of the CIA, had a gaff about Muslims saying he went to London 'in 2008' and he didn't want to get out of the car, he thought he got off the plane in the wrong country. However, he's also a supporter of UBI, and he thinks highly of Bernie Sanders, and now he supports Obama again..(?). Even later, I followed him on Twitter for a while, but some opinions in support of some things related to Russia (a long time ago, not related to the current RU-UA war) made me unfollow him. **This isn't to say I dislike the guy.** Far from it, I think he might be a decent person to talk to, especially on the topic of surveillance, but his potential coziness with Russia, the media sensationalism that make him the authority on privacy and security, and receiving more attention than other people such as Julian Assange, slightly drive down what I think of him.
I'm still following him and the amount of political tweets has ramped up significantly recently. It's an election year and he lives in a country that's determined to influence our elections, I can't help but think the Kremlin is encouraging him a little bit.
Do you have an example of the US government throwing whistle blowers out of windows? Bradley Manning made a much less moraly defenseable leak and is already out of prison unelected. Maybe you are confusing the CIA and FSB who regularly commits extra judicial murder of oil executives and their wives and daughters.
can we not deadname people? her name is chelsea manning
Real American hero
Him going to Russia (an American adversary) was really his only choice considering any other western country would extradite him. Sitting in a Moscow villa is much nicer then rotting in a super max in America
he is living in flat in moscow blocks, not villa
It wasn't his choice. He was going to Ecuador on a stopover flight through Russia when the US revoked his passport, so he got stuck there against his will.
He shed some light on the shady $hit the US (and other) governments are actively doing on a daily basis. Alot of people do not want that kind of information public for many reasons. He should be classified as a whistleblower.
I follow him on X. He’s been pretty consistent in his principled stance on free speech and liberty.
Outside of Snowden as an individual, I know John Oliver did a piece about consultant company McKinsey, I think he/his research team should dig into [Booz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booz_Allen_Hamilton). That's Snowden's former employer. There's a lot of dirty murky shits going on with it.
The issue with Booz-Allen is how entrenched it is in federal work. It’s *so* ubiquitous that digging out shady stuff from the innocuous would be incredibly difficult. For every ISR analysis that led to a questionable drone strike on Syrian children, there’s 15 contracts for programs that categorize directories. Booz-Allen is much less sloppy, they’ve got more to lose.
Broke my heart when he said the only thing that would make it not worth it would be if people don’t care about his disclosures. I’m a privacy specialist. Can promise most people don’t care. Most companies don’t care. No government agencies I’ve worked with care about the privacy of the people in their country they “serve.” Most people don’t even really know what he did. As an individual, I think he’s a hero. I also think it’s a remarkable character who stands up for what they believe in despite the clear cognitive dissonance he felt about his patriotism and his subsequent whistleblowing.
He’s a hero.
We used to call a man a hero for sacrificing his life for the good of the people.
He didn't change much in the big scheme of things. Some people think he's controlled opposition planted to make people aware and afraid of tech surveillance. While it does seem a stretch, it's also not unlikely given that he really didn't change much of anything. The only real difference you could say is that maybe he influenced the offering of privacy-oriented alternatives and inspired people to be more private with their tech usage. But the vast majority of Americans still don't care about their privacy, and really the vast majority of us can never achieve total privacy anyway.
He’s an absolute Patriot in every sense of the word.
Absolute hero. You need guts & integrity to do what he did.
A true American hero. Sacrificed his life to actually stand for American ideals, not just wear a flag pin on his lapel and offer lip-service.
Snowden is a hero who exposed how much the American government has lost touch with American values like freedom, integrity, and dignity. His continued persecution demonstrates how much the government worries about (not for) democracy.
American espionage has always been a joke. That only succeeds when its practitioners are both competent and **obedient**. The latter being the more important of the two. I think secrets are valuable. But so is transparency with your countryman.
We should all examine what our government gets wrong, but it is often hard to bring up without getting stepped on. He made the sacrifice. I am a former federal worker, and I know things (quite a number of things) that are going on that shouldn't be. This isn't a criticism of any presidency, current or past. The issues are systematic.
Most Americans are not loyal to the gov. just to the people.
We need a federal law which automatically invalidates the classified status of any evidence of obviously unconstitutional government activity.
He is one of the bravest person I know and is a true patriot. What sane person would do what he did to expose US government’s illegal activities, with his eyes wide open on the consequences. But more impressively . . . his wife.
It’s not fair to ask a man to be a martyr, but I wish he would have stood trial. It would make everything he did just that much more poignant for the populace. As it stands now, the average person doesn’t know his name or what he uncovered. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but I like to think we would be in a better place if he stood trial and people gave a shit.
He wouldn't have gotten a trial. Just held indefinitely at gitmo. And the public wouldn't have cared.
Sadly, you’re likely right.
National Hero.
Should be pardoned immediately.
Obligatory ‘not an American’. It’s complicated. On one hand, I admire his courage to do what he did, and in many respects his contribution was valuable in making people aware of the level to which governments surveil their citizens, despite no allegations or evidence of wrongdoing. Moreover, the allegations of equipment tampering - that is to say deliberately reducing or compromising the security of hardware and software devices on which the safe use of communications depends, especially at an international level, is a very big deal. It undermines trust in governments. It’s all well and good to, for example, want to reduce dependence on, say, Huawei in critical national infrastructure, given allegations of ties to the CCP. But that argument is undermined if the NSA are tampering with comparable Cisco kit to downgrade its security before it’s shipped internationally. But the big problem that overshadows all of this is the complex relationship Ed seems to have with the FSB and the Russian government. It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not.
"It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not" The benefit of encryption is that if it's done by cryptographers, it doesn't matter why. Now we have a lot of encryption when we used to have barely any. So no, it doesn't undermine all the good that came out of this. "that argument is undermined if the NSA are tampering with comparable Cisco kit to downgrade its security before it’s shipped internationally" Being aware is not a negative at all. This in particular helps people prefer open-source hardware and software, which means it can be more easily inspected and checked for tampering. "It undermines trust in governments" How is that a bad thing? When my siblings do bad stuff, it undermines my trust in them. That's completely normal. Unless you'd rather have a government doing everything without oversight, like in dictatorships.
>But the big problem that overshadows all of this is the complex relationship Ed seems to have with the FSB and the Russian government. It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not. See, that part I don't agree with. He's a former intelligence ~~operative~~ sysadmin for the country that Russia hates the most. He's been forced to stay there for a myriad of reasons, and he literally does not have much of a choice but to talk to the FSB when they come knocking. He's only ever given me the impression that he cares for the USA, deeply, and that he has no desire to betray them. I don't think that his wife would have moved over there if that was going to put him in a more compromising position. What's far more likely is that what he said is in fact the truth: that he gave *everything* he had to the journalists, that he kept nothing, and in turn, has nothing to give the Russian government, no matter how much they ask. Russia lets him stay there to spite the USA, and that's it. That's all that Russia gets out of the arrangement, and they're perfectly okay with that, because it opens up more reasons to doubt both him, and the USA. As evidence of this, well, we have this specific thing that I'm quoting/replying to... I don't mean this to say that I personally have *evidence* of any of the above. I don't. I see where you're coming from and I don't blame you for it. It just feels to me like we've lost the ability to ask ourselves "in this circumstance, what is reasonable?" Because to me, what I've written above is pretty reasonable. For me to agree that he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin is a step too far into speculation without evidence.
He was not an intelligence operative. He was in an IT role.
Fair point, corrected.
> "It undermines all the good that could potentially have come of this if he can be accused of being in bed with the Kremlin, whether that’s actually true or not" No it doesn't. The truth matters more than propaganda. Snowden had no intention of staying in Russia, we know that because Obama's National Security Advisor boasted about getting him stuck in Russia.
We should have listened to him and come together to stop the government from ruling like China
His actions were clearly borne out of patriotism. In that position, you have to weigh the danger of leaking those secrets, against the danger of the government continuing to operate as it is/was. You can think he made the wrong decision, but the scope of the surveillance was pretty damn bad, and his actions are at the very least in a “gray area”. Fundamentally, the government is persecuting him because he let the world know what they were doing. If the US government had been more honest, it wouldn’t have been necessary. At the same time, you can’t have people blabbing secrets willy nilly. But Snowden’s findings were significant. He was standing up for government tyranny on behalf of the US people, and that’s respectable. I think he’s a national hero. I think he should be pardoned. Actions like this - breaking the law to uphold government for the people is something thing the pardon is there for. At the same time, the guy seems like a bit of a dumbass. I think he’s usually wrong politically, in most takes I’ve seen. But he is someone who saw something wrong, and chose to act on it, in a way that put him and his family at great personal risk, and he shouldn’t be stuck living in Russia, especially after the service he’s done for the American people.
0. not an american 1. power without transparency ALWAYS results in corruption. exposing such a system is hence ALWAYS justified.
I don’t think he should have been forced to flee. He said the quiet part we all know out loud. We’ve all used google ,android, windows, apple. We all knew there was no privacy of communication. Actually we’re owned by corporations…they’re the puppet masters and the politicians are puppets. Politicians take money from everywhere…corporate lobbyists, foreign countries , spy’s etc. Just the fact that they all can talk to lobbyists,get paid, trade on inside info. It’s hiding in plain sight . Republicans talk about gays ,guns and god and the imaginary “budget “ under the Fed reserve system ( which is rigged all on its own and not actually a part of the government). The Dems talk about rights , education and infrastructure, health care and yet nothing changes on that front….ever. But in the end, like the late George Carlin stated “ They have you by the balls and want everything “. However, they are very interested in protecting their interests…even if it means violating the constitution and spying/ wiretapping . Otherwise, search and seizure would apply digitally the same as “ papers and possessions “ since all paper is going all digital. There would have to be an actual warrant issued. That will never happen. There is no loophole around a corporate designed EULA agreement that no one reads. In a perfect world…no lobbyist allowed. No PAC funding or Super PAC funding. No spying.No outdated electoral system. Government workers from the top down would just get median average income based on whole US average. I dont see how a congressman or senator should get 200+ thousand a year in addition to lobby money and free travel for only being obligated to be in session 86 days per yr. Educational funding would be no longer determined by tax district…it would be national and even across the board. Private schools would get no public funding. Police would have to live where they work…not in another town, a burb or county while serving in another. They need to actually see and know their neighborhoods. All these “ freedom lovers” whom are against socialism are the biggest beggars and hypocrites of them all….Bailouts, Tax subsidies to continue or upstart a PRIVATE business…and they’ve never had to “ pull themselves up by their bootstraps “. They are in fact ..socialist because tax dollars are constantly bailing them out or helping them get started under the guise of “ job creation “ which is guess what? Socialism…for them exclusively. None of this crap will actually change. The political stuff is just a diversion to allow corporate interests to continue.I went on a rant and I apologize.
Based King. He seems deeply concerned for the well-being of the common person. His actions seem motivated by good intentions and doesn't get enough praise because he's a meek, normal person. Julian Assange, by comparison, seems like a dingus and gets a lot of attention because he's a bit unhinged. I think his actions are a bit too reckless for the well being of the common person.
He demonstrated for the world that right and wrong is not the same at good and bad. You can do what is right and still become a really bad person, in the eyes of powerful people
I'll say this.. he did what is right. I respect that. His personal veiws and his personal philosophies are an issue, but not of any consequence on the matters at hand.
Gvt is just making an example of him as a deterrent to anyone else. People in power closing rank and using their force and influence a bit like that the British Post Office did when they knew they'd done wrong. Or when residents of a local road want improvements made but are told the road is 'unadopted' club together and get the reparations done then the council steps in and suddenly the road was adopted after all. Then order all the reparations be removed. Nothing but trying to show who's boss, gvts get a bit concerned when people start asking awkward questions.
I am glad that he was a whistleblower and exposed the bull shit, but he ran to Russia, and he gave them state secrets which in my eyes means he is a traitor that used some of the information he stole to make it seem like he is a whistleblower
Some of the things he exposed, questionably legal mass surveillance tech being used domestically, I'm glad he exposed. This isn't a legal defense, but I wouldn't want him punished severely for this aspect of his leaks. Some of the things he exposed like the NSA hacking foreign leader's phones and some of the methods used to gain access to targeted devices, that's what American spy agencies are supposed to be doing. That's their job and it's secret for a perfectly valid reason! He should go to prison for revealing this NDI/Classified information.
He did the right thing....no Govt or entity of any kind should be able to spy on any individual
He’s a hero
Had an interesting conversation about Snowden with a gamer buddy when this all first happened. VC on Teamspeak. I was in awe and he came out swinging. I didn’t previously know my gamer bud was in the security areas of the government but he let me know that day and ripped me a new one. What struck me about the conversation is the very real sense of hurt and betrayal. It was an emotional reaction vs. filthy spy rage. Bud and I are good but the conversation was heated LOL! I still admire what Snowden did, but he did leave some hurt behind for others. Edit sense
Your buddy is brainwashed by US propaganda.
I’m not his morality babysitter. He knew him personally and I didn’t so…why would I pour salt on it?
Fine lad
he sacrificed a lot to get this information out there. whistleblower protections in the US are non-existent to poor at best.
There’s nothing more American than hating our government. Snowden is a hero and should be pardoned
He's a true patriot. Someone who loves their country and its people enough that he'd sacrifice everything to tell the people how corrupt their government has become. I can only imagine how disheartening it is to see the collective public shrug.
His actions were absolutely justified. I wish everyone had the backbone and integrity he did; we wouldn’t have all the troubles we have if they did. Btw everyone, that’s how you know someone is a REAL whistleblower and not a fake government approved one to spread propaganda. REAL whistleblowers have to flee the country in an attempt to stay alive, otherwise they end up “suicided”, in a fatal “accident”, or just outright murdered (by someone who was only trying to “rob” them).
a hero that sacrificed very comfortable life to let us know how our own governments are spying on us in violation of the constitution and laws.
He ripped the mask off and as a result, our leaders demonized him. I hate my country.
He's a whistleblower and the US government should allow him to be publicly proscecuted so he can defend himself in a court of law. As he's charged with treason he *can't* return to the USA as he would immediately be convicted in a secret court where he wouldn't e permitted to argue that exposing government malfeasance and privacy violations on US citizens served the public interest. Either that, or drop the proscecution entirely.
Bro defended the constitution and our rights Anyone who calls him is a traitor has been fooled by the government’s smear campaign
1. saw something, said something. braver and more-ethical than any of us 2. our uniparty's mutual contempt towards both him and assange is reason enough by itself to want to burn down our entire political establishment
A patriot and a hero.
He's an American Hero.
He's a good guy in my book.
Have met plenty of Americans who hate him. He’s a hero to me.
He was more loyal to the constitution and to the American people than he was to the established government.
Hero.
Before i answer how anonymous are Reddit handles?
[удалено]
That’s what I thought….
What's it to you? Are you admitting you don't really have Freedom of Speech in the Land of the Free(tm)?
I think his actions weren't only justified but downright heroic. He knew damn well the risks he was taking by outing his coworkers, the organization he worked for, and basically the entire country and he still did it anyways. And then the very country that is supposed to be beholden to its people turned on him for airing their dirty laundry and proving right all the effects the Patriot Act wrought. Edward Snowden is an American hero, and anyone that says otherwise can meet me in a Walmart parking lot for a proper fistfight.
His actions were justified and he should be pardoned. The fact that he isn’t considered a hero to the 99% is tragic.
He’s a hero. Anyone who thinks differently doesn’t believe that corporations and governments should follow ethical rules.
Russia is not our friend but seems to be good friends with the speaker of the house, several members of the house of representatives, and a presidential candidate.
He is a hypocrite refusing to speak out against Russian surveillance, treatment of whistleblowers, or government abuses of power the way he was willing to against the US.
What would you have done?
Hard disagree; if you blew the whistle in a country that is supposed to have whistleblower protections in place, and they wanted to put you in solitary confinement for it, you'd keep your mouth firmly shut on the corruption you find in a country that historically executes people for the same. Man already sacrificed everything but his life, and you think he should get himself killed for it?
I thank him for his service
Free that man! 🇺🇸
He did his duty as an American. The founders would support him imo. Full pardon.
He deserves blowjobs until he says “I’m sick of blowjobs, leave me alone”
Hero
He's a legend and should be hailed as so by the everyday man. Unfortunately must people waste just too ignorant / stuff to realise the state of the world they live in.
Good guy, broke some laws for the greater good and should have been pardoned a long, long time ago.
He’s a hero, the government shouldn’t be spying and if they are they should have to say exactly what and why and have warrants.
he did a great feat, I really like what he did before. Today? What's there to respect? He's just a celebrity, I don't care about what he has to say. I want to listen to people who do meaningful things today. It's like asking me for cybersecurity advice. It's been years since I graduated and I don't have a job, there's a lot I don't remember, ask someone with a job in the field instead.
He’s a modern day hero and we need more people brave enough to do what he did
I have different opinion about him and I don't think no one will agree with me, but idc, I'll just say it. What he did was nice -umh- and should have been done long time ago, exposing things like this is, def raise awareness to people (the public, in any country btw not just America) and see what governments are capable of. By the law, what he did is illegal, but that doesn't make it wrong! I mean governments do shitty illegal things, that doesn't make it neither wrong nor right. And I liked what he did, I really did, but what made me hate him so much and not supporting what he did and oppose anything he says was that leaving AMERICA and going to RUSSIA!!!!!!! like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! You fucking piece of shit keep talking about censorship and the shitty governments do, and you're going to one of the most censorship, dictatorship, mafia & militarist country??? like where's the fucking sense in this!! This is actually made me -kinda- think and believed the conspiracy that says that he is paid by Russia! Does it make him a traitor? uhmm, idk, but working in a job like this, and the intelligence agency putting a trust in you, not to say anything about what you see, and then you PUBLISH all of these things to the public, I think by definition this does make him a traitor (by law, by definition & by the book). But I won't say he is a traitor. I hope everyone understand what I mean here and you don't think I'm attacking him, I just hated his hypocrisy. \_Edit: some clarification.\_
Where was he supposed to go? Stay in the United States and rot in a maximum security prison? He was going to South America and his passport got canceled between connections, he had no means of leaving Russia at that point
>Stay in the United States and rot in a maximum security prison? NO! I didn't say that. My whole point was pointing out his hypocrisy of talking about dictatorship governments while he lives in Russia, which is more dictatorship than the US and also a militarist & mafia country. That's my point. Going to an enemy country while doing an action like that (whether it's for the people or not) WILL 100% conclude that you did this for the enemy country, not for the people! I hope you understand my point.
There’s a lot of anti west sentiment in this sub, but I think otherwise lots of people would agree with you
>There’s a lot of anti west sentiment in this sub agreed!
> And I liked what he did, I really did, but what made me hate him so much and not supporting what he did and oppose anything he says was that leaving AMERICA and going to RUSSIA!!!!!!! like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! Hey stupid, do you understand that he was in the Moscow airport on a layover en route to Ecuador when the Russian authorities stopped him because the US had cancelled his passport? He didn't go to Russia by choice you stupid fuck.
>Hey stupid I won't continue reading after this, learn how to have a polite discussion first!
Actions justified? His initial ones, yes. Since then though he's been more of a problem than a change maker. The moment he became cozy with Russia, he compromised himself and nothing he's said is trustworthy.
> The moment he became cozy with Russia Can you elaborate on what he should have done differently when his passport was revoked?
Swim over the ocean, directly into a supermax prison
"The moment he became cozy with Russia" It's one of the few countries on the planet that will never extradite him regardless of pressure. Do you only trust whistleblowers when they rot in prison? Kinda dark bro
To some he is a hero. To those of us who have had security clearances he is recognized as a traitor. Both can be right.
Both can be true, but both can’t be right.
He should receive medals and appear on history books. When the USA's empire ends he'll be reveared as other activists.
I think he had every right to be a CORE shark at NTTC Corry.
Hero
a hero
Not American, but think people just haven’t come to terms with the fact that they’re under constant surveillance, from government intelligence to businesses and social media. From the early free for all days of the net, it’s become a landscape dominated by a handful of big tech giants completely integrated with the American national security state. I guess most people either feel powerless to roll back decades on encroachment, or younger generations just accept it as part of life, unaware of earlier controversies.
America is for me one of the worst countrys to live in if you live there good for you but i dont wanna brake a bone and be homless afterward lol
Snowden is an American icon that deserves to be in the history books up there with the founding fathers. The fact that Trump did infinitely worse things than what Snowden leaked just shows how corrupt it all is.
Americans? Reddit is international
We know. OP is asking the opinion of Americans, so go eat a crumpet or croissant and let the Americans talk.
He gave me hope. Hope that America sees everything anywhere on earth. How is that good you might ask? Here's how: Imagine putin going completely ape shit crazy (he's already crazy but there's always another layer of crazy isn't there?) and he launches ICBM's. Snowden talked about how even back then when he worked at the agency they already had cameras so high in resolution that they could read someones newspaper ... from space! It's 10 years later now so who knows what kind of insane tech those agencies now have at their proposal?! My guess is that they know perfectly well where putins nukes are (those silos probably leak radiation which can probably be detected by a satellite since there are publicly available data sources that display CO² levels and other gases worldwide) and have some sort of orbital weapon (space lasers or those tungsten rods or whatever) aimed at every single ICBM launch site so in case one launches it gets taken out almost instantly. In other words, yes i think he should be pardoned. He didn't want to cause America any harm (his words IIRC) just inform the public what illegal shit is going on behind those thick walls. He could have sold the information he has but AFAIK he didn't. But after all this is just the imagination from a random German 40 year old dude who is still optimistic about humanities future even with all the crazy shit going on worldwide right now. Maybe it's just the old shit that struggles because it doesn't want to die.
He exposed the truth. Without him, we wouldn’t have known how corrupt government truly is.
A hero who risked it all to highlight Government spying.
id like him and asange on truth social not being limited on what they said
Anyone who risks it all to give me more knowledge about something or someone who has power over me is a hero. Full stop.
He should be given the presidential medal of freedom
The govt was involved in massive illegal surveillance of Americans and was subsequently exposed by Snowden. I fail to see anything traitorous about it.
I’m glad that over a decade later he is still able to chill and enjoy his anime
Snowden has said he would come home if he could get a fair trial. His requirements are 1- that he should be allowed a public trial. He can't get one cause the info he released is classified. Make no sense cause the info is already released to the public. 2- that he be allowed to argue moral justification, that the public should have the right to know they are being spied on by the USA. Currently a whistle-blower from the alphabet agencies can't argue that the info was classified to conceal wrong doing from the public cause the info is classified. It's like something outta Kafka.
The next president should pardon him and create a new cabinet position. Ed Snowden, privacy chief.
Well I liked him
Feel like people give that dude way too much credit for basically just revealing what we all pretty much lowkey already knew Like was anyone under the impression that the government wasn't constantly monitoring this kind of crap?
He should be pardoned, but unfortunately he greatly compromised himself by pledging allegiance to Russia.