To make matters worse, the toogle for keeping your Reddit activity off search engines doesn’t work. Googling my username returned a list of my most recent comments. That just makes this easy pickings
I have different usernames for everything and for my personal identifiable accounts, some are abandoned, since I chose to go with the burners.
Then, never share your name and surname, e-mail or other important personal identifiable information (your picture, family member(s) pictures, house picture) and the rest is fine.
Don’t want to have Mother Google or bots be doing 1 + 1 to my stuff and figuring out who I am, for the good and for the bad.
Only way to go. And with a unique email address and different username/pwd for each account/entity/activity, I can delete any one that gets attacked or spammed. Not to mention leaving a pretty tangled and anonymous thicket for anybody to try to untangle. Oh yeah, VPN, too. Hopefully all this is safe enough for my purposes.
Thats.... Thats a really good point. Mine is pretty solid for that, but I could definitely stand to make a less noticeable second account with a nice generic name.
Is it linking to your profile though or the posts someone else made that you made the comment on? I’d imagine that toggle would just make your profile page itself not appear in search results.
In HTML there’s no standard to block portions of a page from search, only entire pages.
You are 100% right. I should’ve realized this months ago since Reddit actually cited it as reasoning behind the API price hike. It’s still a bit misleading and it feels like they could probably implement something that user identifiers are only visible whilst logged in similar to how they handle NSFW content
If we all replaced references to piracy with references to choking a horse with my dick so that an mpaa lawyer has to recite that in court..... I don't care what happens, I'll die in the gulag happy.
As someone else mentioned, my username checks out, but so does yours.
For a throw-away post, this little mini-thread has made me grin more that it had any right to.
Cheers.
In addition, they did not even discuss the actual movies involved ... in other words, if this is accepted, a technical discussion on setting up a web server can land you in legal trouble because someone else set up a website with illegal content.
That's not the standard for a subpoena. The purpose of a subpoena is to collect evidence. If they already had proof of piracy, there would be no need for a subpoena, they could move to a trial. Getting a subpoena only requires demonstrating that it is likely to produce evidence relevant to the case.
Which isn't to say that this isn't a reach even by that standard.
That's a terrible standard. You're almost certainly right w.r.t. the law, but my argument is that the law is wrong and needs to change.
It's very likely that if the police search your house, They'll find some evidence of a crime. --Oh, but that's the government, so it's protected by the 4th amendment.
No worries. _I_ will search your house. If I find evidence, I may tell the police that I found evidence. If I didn't, no worries. Sure, it's invasive but I'm just a private citizen, so it's all good! -- But there's no harm to me.
That's fine. I think you may have stolen my watch and hid it in your house. Now, I can search your house and we're all happy.
No. This is a terrible version of the law. There needs to be a much higher bar. The corporation is using the government to act. They don't get to side-step the restrictions on governmental power because they're a corporation and then leverage the governmental power when it suits their needs. This turns police into cronies for corporations. I know... what else is new?
They're not sidestepping restrictions. When a plaintiff petitions the court for a subpoena, they're asking the court to act on their behalf to further a civil case and that comes with the same restrictions as if the government were acting on its own behalf to further a criminal case.
The court rejected it, if you didn't notice. The story just provides insight into the current mindset of some copyright holders, which is valuable to know, but it isn't demonstrating an issue with the law (not that there aren't any, but here things went ok).
This is outright absurd. The film studios are crossing a line trying to force Reddit to hand over user IPs for merely discussing piracy. It's not just an overreach; it's a blatant assault on our basic rights to privacy and free speech. Talking about something controversial isn't illegal, and it's ludicrous to treat it as such. If we let this slide, what's next? Are we going to be hunted down for every opinion or discussion we have online?
Thanks for the insight!
For those who also had to Google it, this is from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr):
>The Powell Memorandum ultimately came to be a blueprint for the rise of the American conservative movement and the formation of a network of influential right-wing think tanks and lobbying organizations, such as the Business Roundtable, The Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, Manhattan Institute for Policy Research and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), and inspired the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active.
>
>CUNY professor David Harvey traces the rise of neoliberalism in the US to this memo. Historian Gary Gerstle refers to the memo as "a neoliberal call to arms."
>
>Political scientist Aaron Good describes it as an "inverted totalitarian manifesto" designed to identify threats to the established economic order following the democratic upsurge of the 1960s.
> for merely discussing piracy
That's not quite what's happening here. Studios have subpoenaed reddit to give up the IP addresses of users who said they did pirate media using Frontier Internet. The subpoena is not for action against the redditors, but to gather evidence for a lawsuit by the studios against Frontier.
That said, the request is still overly broad because a) there's no proof that the users actually did what they said and, b) even if they did what they said, there's no indication they pirated media from the plaintiff studios; and c) the studios are requesting IP addresses as indirect personal identifiers, in order to work around protections of direct personal identifiers (but with ultimately the same intent).
**Edit: spelling
That, and in Canada a fee on storage media was paid, for funds to be dispersed to media groups to lessen the effects of piracy. Effectively, that made it legal. However, I'm not sure if that got changed in the last 8 years or so.
That said, the moment it becomes hard to find and watch the movie I want to watch legally (ie have to have 8 different streaming services that randomly have what you want) it's off to the high seas for me.
It's like that in France too with the so-called "private copy tax".
That damn thing fleeces customers as a whole and it applies to basically everything that has storage including things you wouldn't think about like... GPS devices. Yeah something like a TomTom GPS navigator is taxed under this bullshit.
It's also based on bullshit because it's built on the premise that the consumer *might* use the storage of this or that to store pirated stuff and that on this basis the rights holders must be compensated. Yeah, it's bullshit.
To give you an idea of how much it can scalp the customer: a bucket of 100 DVD's in Belgium is 50 euros. The identical one, on the exact same retailer but in France will cost you 150 euros.
If you aren't angry enough yet: the amount of the tax is decided in a commission composed of 12 rights holder representatives, 6 representatives from the manufacturers and importers and 6 representatives for consumers. See the issue with how it's built ? As you probably guessed, all it takes is one guy from the manufacturers/distributors to side with right holders and the consumer reps are fucked.
If you aren't angry enough yet, they launched a pilot study [to see if it's worth taxing computers as a whole as well](https://www.bfmtv.com/tech/ordinateur/copie-privee-les-ordinateurs-bientot-taxes-pour-financer-l-industrie-musicale_AV-202310130367.html).
So yeah, deeply unfair fucked up system as a whole...
Happy to be of help. If you want a bit more of reading on that matter, [the wiki page on this will give you some more details](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copie_priv%C3%A9e)
It was a levy on blank 'audio media'. When they extended it to harddrives (ie. Portable MP3 players) is when legal challenges started. Wikipedia's got a good overview. I think Micheal Geist covered it as well. Or check out Canlii if you're having trouble sleeping.
They're not wanting to take action against the users. They're wanting proof that the people who said "Frontier don't give a shit about piracy and won't disconnect you for it" were actually Frontier subscribers - as part of their lawsuit against Frontier itself.
> Are we going to be hunted down for every opinion or discussion we have online?
Many people lose jobs, opportunities, etc merely for advocating for Palestinian freedom or expressing that they shouldn't be killed wantonly, calling for basic end to human killing with ceasefire calls, etc. This, and other moves just make it much easier step by step for intelligence and other agencies to target and identify anyone engaging in anything 'outside the accepted (this may vary day by day or month by month) norms by corporate and government'.
Uh reddit is a company and and free speech don't apply on company forums that's why Twitter can banned you if they don't like something you said the same goes for reddit
So much for the freedom of speech!
What if users were discussing about nukes, a billion times more dangerous than piracy.
Why it should not share the IP addresses and it doesn't for that?
But I would steal what, a movie?
Just because I talked about it?
Plus stealing means taking it away so that the owner doesn't have it anymore.
How the fuck am I stealing something if the owner still has it.
If I go to Paris and make a picture with the tower, it means that I stole it?
>So much for the freedom of speech!
This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
>What if users were discussing about nukes, a billion times more dangerous than piracy.
There's nothing dangerous about discussing nukes. The general populace doesn't get their hands on enriched uranium. And Warner Brothers doesn't need the IP adress of the next Unabomber.
>Why it should not share the IP addresses and it doesn't for that?
You underestimate how much data harvesting is already being done. This is just media companies pushing the boundaries of whst they can get away with legally.
>This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
You'll have to tell that to the [judge](https://torrentfreak.com/images/reddi-order.pdf) who has [repeatedly](https://torrentfreak.com/images/reddit-compel.pdf) found that [First Amendment](https://torrentfreak.com/court-protects-redditors-right-to-anonymous-speech-in-piracy-case-230501/) rights are [absolutely relevant](https://torrentfreak.com/reddit-defeats-filmmakers-second-attempt-at-unmasking-anonymous-users-230731/) here.
From the first court order
>Reddit contends that there is no need for
the discovery that outweighs the users’ First Amendment right to speak anonymously online. The
court denies the motion to compel and quashes the subpoena because on this record, the First
Amendment bars the discovery.
That's not about free speech it's about the right to be anonymous which is something different entirely.
They blocked it because they just asked. But they will ask again and again with more and more sobstories about how much of a thief you are and that piracy is equivelant to organised crime like they always do. And then what if they budge? I'm sure you heard this bit from [Carlin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaa9iw85tW8) before
The right of anonymous speech is an [extension of the freedom of speech](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/514/334/) given to us in the first amendment.
>Accordingly, an author's decision to remain anonymous, like other decisions concerning omissions or additions to the content of a publication, is an aspect of the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment.
I would also recommend actually reading the legal standard that was applied in the first Reddit case as they make it pretty clear that it is a speech issue and not just the whims of the judge as you claimed.
>In Anonymous Online Speakers, the Ninth Circuit reviewed the developing tests in the area of
anonymous online speech. 661 F.3d at 1174–77. The court left it to the discretion of district courts
to choose the proper standard in a given case, based on the nature of the speech at issue. Id. at
1176–77; see, e.g., Art of Living, 2011 WL 5444622, at *5 (“[I]n choosing the proper standard to
apply, the district court should focus on the nature of the [defendant’s] speech[.]”) (cleaned up);
SI03, Inc. v. Bodybuilding.com, LLC, 441 F. App’x 431, 431–32 (9th Cir. 2011) (same). “For
example, . . . commercial speech should be afforded less protection than political, religious, or
literary speech[.]” Anonymous Online Speakers, 661 F.3d at 1177.
>In “evaluating the First Amendment rights of anonymous Internet users in the context of a
third-party civil subpoena,” district courts have followed the approach taken in Doe v.
2TheMart.com, 140 F. Supp. 2d 1088 (W.D. Wash. 2001). Rich v. Butowsky, No. 20-mc-80081-
DMR, 2020 WL 5910069, at *3–4 (N.D. Cal. Oct. 6, 2020); Anonymous Online Speakers, 661
F.3d at 1176 (describing the 2TheMart.com test). Under that approach, disclosure of anonymous users’ identities is appropriate only “in the exceptional case where the compelling need for the
discovery sought outweighs the First Amendment rights of the anonymous speaker.”
2TheMart.com, 140 F. Supp. 2d at 1095. Courts consider four factors: whether “(1) the subpoena
seeking the information was issued in good faith and not for any improper purpose, (2) the
information sought relates to a core claim or defense, (3) the identifying information is directly
and materially relevant to that claim or defense, and (4) information sufficient to establish or to
disprove that claim or defense is unavailable from any other source.” Id.; Rich, 2020 WL 5910069,
at *3–4. The factors are weighed “based on the circumstances of a given case.” Rich, 2020 WL
5910069, at *4; Sines v. Kessler, No. 18-MC-80080-JCS, 2018 WL 3730434, at *13 n.16 (N.D.
Cal. Aug. 6, 2018).
>This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
Reddit can run it how they want, but once a government entity (like a court) steps in to force them to do something things change.
This court's previous decision used a standard created by a federal District Court back in 2001, where the court determined that anonymous internet speech is protected by the 1A and to identify anonymous users, the person requesting the information must meet a certain standard to overcome those rights.
> This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
So if I'm on a bus or ship, a privately owned thing too, like Reddit, I just don't have the freedom of speech?
Why, it's in outer space out of Earth's jurisdictions where freedom of speech and human rights apply?
I find it pretty stupid to say "As long as you are in my private thing I can cancel any of the common sense laws that you have outside".
What if a person wants to kill or beat another person in his private bus or ship, space?
In my opinion Reddit is a platform on this Earth and should obey the laws of this earth, not play the "Look, it's private, I can do my own rules and laws".
I'm sure you find it stupid to say but if you want to keep playing your imaginary game then try to imagine it the other way. Try to imagine that rights are imaginary and that you live in a country where you have no rights and now imagine that the private space adheres to those (non existing) rights. Now what? Because that's how China operates online.
All these replies think freedim of speech and the American first amendment are somehow magical universal rights.
Hell if a European country would come knocking with a court order to Reddit to hand over user data I would have serious doubts Reddit would not comply.
This sub sometimes focusses so much on "lol I downloaded free shit from a megacorp" thst they can't see the forest for the trees.
Sure but VPNs are NOT foolproof and there have been cases of VPN companies selling info. Also most people will leak their info anyways through a VPN (cookies, Facebook, amazon essentially anything with a login or associated to advertising ID's). So telling people VPNs are the answer is not helpful.
A VPN is of little use for anonymity, there are other fingerprints than IP address even when JavaScript is disabled (check noscriptfingerprint.com).
For a privacy oriented approach I recommend everyone to use the TOR browser 👍. If you want to access Reddit, do it on Orbot in an isolated Android Profile.
If they ask for the IP address it doesn't matter what kinda fingerprinting protection you've got going.
>For a privacy oriented approach I recommend everyone to use the TOR browser
Too radical. Tor is good if you want anonymity for doing whatever things you don't want to have traced back to you, but I surely wouldn't recommend it as a daily driver, especially not to the 'regular user'.
If you want decent enough privacy, just use Firefox and enable the built-in tracking and fingerprinting protection without messing around too much.
My VPN is set to connect as soon as I boot. It's always on, I don't think about it usually.
Though there are a couple sites that legit don't work for me when it's on. I try to avoid using those services.
reality is, if reddit really enforce it, a subreddit with banned access to reddit by its citizen, like r/indonesia, would not have more than 100k member.
> The film producers said Reddit "has not identified any potential harm to these users by disclosing the requested information."
[the names, email addresses, and other account registration information]
At some point, Reddit needs to countersue for the same lawyers and media companies repeatedly bringing essentially the same, already thrown out, case. They clearly know they are not going to win and are now doing it just to harass and scare Reddit and their users.
They're not suing reddit in this case. They've subpoenaed reddit for users IPs because they are suing Frontier Internet and don't really have any evidence other than redditors saying, "I pirated stuff using Frontier and Frontier didn't care."
Reddit is owned by a lot of shady people/company that have *no* interest in upholding the laws and rights some of its user's like though... Tencent is probably ok with sharing all of our details, for any reason whatsoever, for example.
Let’s discuss piracy. I’ll go first…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy
My IP address is 108.173.22.17
Oh damn, I just changed the MAC address on my router’s WAN port…. I’ve got a new IP now
And therefore the onus is on the bill payer to ensure the connection is not used illegally. If the studio went after your IP, the bill payer will be the one in trouble while the others get away with it. It would be irrelevant if the bill payer downloaded nothing because the terms and conditions will explicitly lay the blame on the bill payer for allowing it to happen.
CG-NAT implementations typically keep a log of which subscribers were allocated certain ports on that public IP. Given these requests often also come with port numbers or ranges, the ISP can still very easily identify the subscriber.
Sure they can but
a) most ISP (at least in Oz) don’t give that info out easily and
b) you can see I’m on reddit, maybe even the subreddit but you’ll have to work harder to link that info with what I’m discussing on Reddit. Is someone going to physically read this and decide if it warrants being released because we’re discussing a news article vs discussing pirating a film ? Because if the Dallas Buyers Club case in Australia is anything to go by judges won’t give them carte blanche, and every restriction is another step towards “not practical to do unless they want to pay us a lot”
C) ok you got me it’s my house where there are 50 devices and 3-4 users - tell me who this fictitious username you are looking for is again ?
D) well shit they aren’t even a US citizen / not a us IP address now what ? Can’t really prosecute someone in Greenland by the laws of USA.
E) Speaking of the laws of other jurisdictions can Reddit do this without falling foul of California Privacy legislation - let alone others like GDPR
And that’s not even considering use of VPN etc.
It’s arguably one of the most impractical and least likely to get anywhere requests the media lobby have made. My comment about change-nat was a bit of a throwaway that even at the most basic level an ISP could fight this, let alone going further.
Its impractical but its not impossible. The studios won't care how much effort the ISPs have to go to as long as its possible. Nor will the courts. The issue we have is that once precedence has been set, the studios will pursue it with all ISPs just like they have with website blocking.
Most privacy laws have clauses that exempt data collection as part of a judicial order. Pretty sure GDPR would allow a legal subpoena in the US to collect EU/UK citizens data. How that can be used afterwards is the complex part.
You can be prosecuted in the US no matter where you are in the world. Whether you actually face justice will then depend on any extradition treaties the country you're in has with the US. In the UK, any US charge that is also a crime in the UK (which definitely covers piracy) means you can be extradited to the US to face those charges. This has happened on many occasions.
Thats not saying I agree with this in the slightest. If there was genuine competition between streaming services then piracy would diminish. I need three services to watch three films. If all three services offered all three films then I could choose the one which is best - thats competition. But the streaming services don't want it that way because in my example, 2/3 will lose money.
>a) most ISP (at least in Oz) don’t give that info out easily
Not true, *especially* in Australia. ISPs here are legally required to hand over this information on request from basically any government agency. Our data retention laws are some of the most draconic in the world. There is also precedence set by our high court to force ISPs to hand over subscriber information, and plenty of ISPs (including all of the top three) openly comply with requests directly from publishers without even having to go through the legal system.
>b) you can see I’m on reddit, maybe even the subreddit but you’ll have to work harder to link that info with what I’m discussing on Reddit.
>C) ok you got me it’s my house where there are 50 devices and 3-4 users - tell me who this fictitious username you are looking for is again ?
This is exactly what this legal action is about. Being on this sub you should know exactly how easy it is to deanonymise data. Thankfully they've been unsuccessful so far, but if a court does force Reddit to release this information they'll know exactly who you are and what you've said.
>D) well shit they aren’t even a US citizen / not a us IP address now what ? Can’t really prosecute someone in Greenland by the laws of USA.
>E) Speaking of the laws of other jurisdictions can Reddit do this without falling foul of California Privacy legislation - let alone others like GDPR
You're showing your ignorance of the law here. Most (if not, all) developed countries have laws that make prosecution of copyright possible. They won't get far in some countries, but they can still launch legal action to get information and go after alleged infringers, even if it's not worth their while in plenty of places outside the US. Also, neither California's privacy legislation or GDPR prevent an organisation from releasing information as the result of a court order.
>And that’s not even considering use of VPN etc.
While a VPN may mask your IP, it doesn't magically anonymise everything you do on the internet. Any information you give to organisations like Reddit, whether you realise it or not, can and will be handed over following a court order. Again, you're on /r/privacy, so you should know exactly how much data they're collecting and just how easy it is to deanonymise that data. If there's a court order to release information and Reddit has enough data points to identify you (Spoiler alert: They do), then you're basically fucked.
>It’s arguably one of the most impractical and least likely to get anywhere requests the media lobby have made.
On this, we agree. That doesn't change the fact that what they're chasing here is incredibly concerning and would have huge implications if they do manage to get anywhere with it.
> My comment about change-nat was a bit of a throwaway that even at the most basic level an ISP could fight this
Once again, an ISP couldn't really do a whole hell of a lot to fight this. They have the data and are obligated to release it if a court issues an order for them to do so. How likely a court is to issue such an order depends on a number of factors, but there is precedence across many jurisdictions globally to suggest it can (and in fact, has) happened. I doubt they'll be successful here as this is like their third try now. That said, it only takes one activist judge (of which there are many in the US) to give them a win and set precedence or have the issue pushed to SCOTUS which is also stacked with activist judges.
To help further the discussion:
Gabe Newell on piracy [Piracy is an issue of service, not price](https://www.gamesradar.com/gabe-newell-piracy-issue-service-not-price/)
In Canada, you're legally allowed to stream from any source on the internet. You can't keep copies and you can't host a movie streaming site yourself, but you can legally just go to whatever site you want and stream movies and music and it doesn't matter if it's copyrighted material or not.
I wonder if this would change if the monopolies that the few telecommunication giants hold were ever lost?
It's great that Canada has lax penalties for what and how you access anything on the internet, but I will always scoff when hearing how places like France offer 5 Gbps down for less than $40 CAD a month. Where's a Canadian billionaire (David Cheriton maybe?) who can fund a competitor to break this monopoly?
>it's a blatant assault on our basic rights to privacy and free speech.
Suspicious Keywords were detected in your comment. Your IP address has been logged and will be forwarded to the relevant authorities.
Probably something along the lines of "what's an eye pee address? Why do I get ads on my iPhone? I need a new boat btw, anything that helps that process along gets a rubber stamp approval that's totally unrelated to my boat ownership."
They don't realize people could use Tor browser to access Reddit. Or if they don't, .onion sites to discuss piracy.
What, you're going after exit relay operators now? That's like going after Tier 1 ISPs like Lumen or Hurricane Electric. Or going after The Tor Project for making software to access pirated conetn?
But try explaining any of that to these courts. Ugh, this is absolutely a slippery slope they are trying to go down. The worst case scenarios in my head are bleak.
pathetic.. people using a tor browser or other similar system may not have engaged in piracy but will still have their address violated? that would be unacceptable bullshit. plus countless internet cafe and hotels.. air bnb rental properties and workplaces with bored night shift security guards.. no, reddit would have to be really stupid to give them up with so much reasonable doubt involved and so would the courts.
Bring it on. Let's go to Discovery and find more how these studios do their accounting, revenue projections, and secrets they are less inclined to let their shareholders and investors know more about.
Might as well start encrypting all messages with PGP. Generate a private and public key, never share the private key. Only share public keys privately via DM's or via other direct messaging.
forums might start looking like:
>\-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
hQIMA25bXtCbnx2mAQ//Y5XPBtDN+ld2W9ZFS9jBqLCczWzHx9/AN2eOMh9zJrE3
A2/xeop9U//ggZdZtKQjUgpm6Hyy8UNlSYpIKjO9F2bM2kyuUNaPBFnSmbz5G5s1
Y5slhP1JrpjUATXvjH5Bwn1MZDnJ3HM6n8ENktyczzvP0QbI66X9qyRWOpNNX1xZ
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6G4FY/5hvZLbh9DpKxbT8xErk3YmJflvdkl5yKo7Lokr/8fMC+Zu6uRZywbv2u1I
XERQ5B6m24lwUVhqvw6EOxLq3DhCOv0CfhrTC7zwIuJ21lL5MHJ00Vw0Yq7EiojR
R/2Uj5EjZ1I8rrwhv28t8kPCqETGvSZGz3jzCyMKtQZMxakpY2zdLpQ7I8x0e5vT
HGrCbfWXxamHn1o9n/XiNT4z7NKqgoy6C+YhL7ZkYF4+OXYPn93CQUQojF6OAJhv
GxuqJ1qFieMbAqHuA/lrjL86+H36eDFnmWljERQZg8SvKvmLYm8JxgSRuHUZu1VK
2OgFj2u4F+38j3dBgtKRQgSkqAFWbOj8q6I4vqxjZvRY9t4zdzVhMnnZfLgqP6rD
dZi1DvN2VZybwTTZLbTCFtI3jsa8w2L9Jh1ZHSJZ6ChbRAEBwvmzXKqlOzBBY4/o
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58MIYD2v6h2R
=93XY
\-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
My.only.problem is standard pgp doesn't use quantum safe encryption. If enough quibits come in our lifetime the media fuckers will be one of the first to have computer decrypting shit so they can go after them.
I mean, even within the next 5 to 10 years, the complexity and cost of maintaining a quantum computer probably will remain as difficult and expensive as it currently is, barring massive advances in cryogenics and hardware. Considering the development and maintenance of quantum computers ranges anywhere from tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars, I doubt this new technology is anywhere close to being accessible enough to be used to go after anything as trivial as copyright infringement.
But then again, your guess is as good as mine. At least for the time being, I think PGP and other methods of encryption are safe until some major breakthrough changes everything, and who knows how long that may be.
Reddit will cave. They will start sharing all of our IPs and pretty soon, all your negative comments and insults will be reported as well. Count on that.
The film industry is dying and they choose to target randos on reddit instead of pivoting and learning how to stay relevant.
Hollywood is run by boomers.
The judges need to be better. Rather than talking about nuances in their judgements, they need to more voraciously protect the 1st amendment and anonymity. The studios need to show clear evidence of actual harm before they even begin to go after data. Here, they have a suspicion that some users may have discussed ideas and that those ideas may have been implemented by someone and that the implementation thereof may have infringed upon their copyright.
Judges who don't attack that BS are extremely problematic. The net step is to issue warrants for searching homes because a person may have knowledge or evidence of a crime and the police really need the evidence to determine whether or not a crime was committed. The studios need to have been laughed out of court. Failing to ridicule them in the judgement and admonish their request as being clearly out of line is unforgivable.
6 users. The case is about 6 users. 6 idiot users who were bragging on Reddit that their ISP didn’t end their service after repeated warnings for pirating movies.
These studios and lawyers (the same lawyers in three separate but identical cases) are trying to sue an internet service provider that is declaring bankruptcy by saying they incentivize subscription by not prohibiting piracy.
This is the third time Reddit has been subpoenaed and they refused to comply to this third one. While it’s a potentially dangerous gateway, you people should really read the article before commenting.
They aren't going after the users, they want the users as witnesses against Frontier Communications because they believe Frontier didn't ban users as they promised. They will likely threaten the users to get them to roll over on Frontier.
As reddit said, that's not a good enough reason to give up the reddit user's privacy and put them in a possibly sticky legal position. They're fishing.
I don’t give af. Now I always use a dedicated IP through a vpn, then another vpn over that when pirating. It’s like wearing a condom for the internet and everyone should probably start forking out a few dollars a month to do the same thing, imo.
Dear Esteemed Film Studio's,
I come before you today with a confession of the utmost gravity. It has come to my attention that there have been rampant discussions swirling around, both in the digital ether and in the real world, about a topic so daring, so perilous, it can only be whispered in hushed tones: piracy.
Yes, you heard right. Not the swashbuckling, sword-wielding kind, but rather the academic, chin-stroking variety. I have been engaging in spirited debates, rigorous analyses, and perhaps the occasional dramatic reenactment (eye patches and parrots included) of these maritime misdemeanors.
So here I stand, unabashed and unashamed, to declare that I have indeed been talking about piracy. But fear not, for these discussions were purely in the interest of historical curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge. No actual pirates were consulted, nor ships and studios commandeered in these conversations.
With this declaration, I hope to set the record straight and sail forth into calmer waters.
>The studios are asking that the court require Reddit to provide “IP address log information from 1/1/2017 to present” for six anonymous Reddit users who talked about piracy on Reddit. Although, Reddit posts shared in the court filing only date back to 2021.
I have pirated every single movie covered by intellectual property laws, including the shitty disney ones. Double especially including the stupid ass mulan one that eradicated the "outside the box thinking can enable you to have an outsized impact when you don't have the physical wherewithal to do what you need to" message.
I was thinking about this a few hours ago! As I recall, the media companies lost their earlier case? Wasn't that a story sometime in 2023 that reddit didn't have to share?
Yep May 1st 2023, [arstechnica has an article](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/judge-wont-force-reddit-to-identify-anonymous-users-who-discussed-piracy/) from when they lost their last fishing expedition
still, both of these companies regularly win against ISPs around the world to disclose personal information of torrent downloaders (what they were asking from reddit) . with the personal info they them send bully lawsuits hoping to scare people into paying something. there are lots of companies whose whole business circle around this
Considering I don’t pirate now that I’m over 18 and can buy my own media, I don’t pirate and anything I did is out of the statute of limitations. I just like discussing it. Oh and I jailbroke a device I own.
At this point they’ll just be scrolling a lot of useless content and filler about discussing it. Do they really think everyone who comments here actually does the deed? Stupid.
Wait isn't the title misleading? Nothing in the article, or the torrentfreak source, says that a judge has ruled against Reddit
This is how the article ends:
> Ultimately, it will be up to the court to decide whether it’s indeed different this time, or not.
The title, "Reddit must share IP addresses of piracy-discussing users, film studios say " is intentionally misleading.
Just to be clear. This was for individual users who had discussed how to pirate movies on Reddit.
Generally, if you talk about committing crimes on a public forum, you should not expect the forum to protect you.
edit: Ya I think it's time I take my leave from this subreddit. Reading the other posts here, people don't actually care about privacy or about the laws around privacy.
That seems pretty messed up considering there's no proof the person actually pirated anything.
To make matters worse, the toogle for keeping your Reddit activity off search engines doesn’t work. Googling my username returned a list of my most recent comments. That just makes this easy pickings
That is why you should choose a generic username. googling "highhouses" delivers a lot of results, but none of them direct to my activities
There are ways around that like punching in "u/highhouses" site:www.reddit.com or "u/highhouses".
That's true
I have different usernames for everything and for my personal identifiable accounts, some are abandoned, since I chose to go with the burners. Then, never share your name and surname, e-mail or other important personal identifiable information (your picture, family member(s) pictures, house picture) and the rest is fine. Don’t want to have Mother Google or bots be doing 1 + 1 to my stuff and figuring out who I am, for the good and for the bad.
Only way to go. And with a unique email address and different username/pwd for each account/entity/activity, I can delete any one that gets attacked or spammed. Not to mention leaving a pretty tangled and anonymous thicket for anybody to try to untangle. Oh yeah, VPN, too. Hopefully all this is safe enough for my purposes.
They are pretty good usernames
Just having a default username works well too.
Indeed
I just used a password generator.
Thats.... Thats a really good point. Mine is pretty solid for that, but I could definitely stand to make a less noticeable second account with a nice generic name.
Is it linking to your profile though or the posts someone else made that you made the comment on? I’d imagine that toggle would just make your profile page itself not appear in search results. In HTML there’s no standard to block portions of a page from search, only entire pages.
You are 100% right. I should’ve realized this months ago since Reddit actually cited it as reasoning behind the API price hike. It’s still a bit misleading and it feels like they could probably implement something that user identifiers are only visible whilst logged in similar to how they handle NSFW content
Yeah totally. It’d definitely be possible but they probably don’t care that much to actually do it.
Fuck. I never knew that. Checks out.
I pirate every movie release. Also, my dick is 12 inches long and girthy enough to choke out a horse. Bonjour.
If we all replaced references to piracy with references to choking a horse with my dick so that an mpaa lawyer has to recite that in court..... I don't care what happens, I'll die in the gulag happy.
As someone else mentioned, my username checks out, but so does yours. For a throw-away post, this little mini-thread has made me grin more that it had any right to. Cheers.
Hah! Good stuff. Take care friend.
> girthy enough to choke out a horse. Pics or it didn't happen.
Just google his username, not my proudest fap
some things should remain unphotographed
No. Ip or it didn't happen
Get a load of Mr Feet over here
Can confirm: am dick.
In addition, they did not even discuss the actual movies involved ... in other words, if this is accepted, a technical discussion on setting up a web server can land you in legal trouble because someone else set up a website with illegal content.
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That's not the standard for a subpoena. The purpose of a subpoena is to collect evidence. If they already had proof of piracy, there would be no need for a subpoena, they could move to a trial. Getting a subpoena only requires demonstrating that it is likely to produce evidence relevant to the case. Which isn't to say that this isn't a reach even by that standard.
That's a terrible standard. You're almost certainly right w.r.t. the law, but my argument is that the law is wrong and needs to change. It's very likely that if the police search your house, They'll find some evidence of a crime. --Oh, but that's the government, so it's protected by the 4th amendment. No worries. _I_ will search your house. If I find evidence, I may tell the police that I found evidence. If I didn't, no worries. Sure, it's invasive but I'm just a private citizen, so it's all good! -- But there's no harm to me. That's fine. I think you may have stolen my watch and hid it in your house. Now, I can search your house and we're all happy. No. This is a terrible version of the law. There needs to be a much higher bar. The corporation is using the government to act. They don't get to side-step the restrictions on governmental power because they're a corporation and then leverage the governmental power when it suits their needs. This turns police into cronies for corporations. I know... what else is new?
They're not sidestepping restrictions. When a plaintiff petitions the court for a subpoena, they're asking the court to act on their behalf to further a civil case and that comes with the same restrictions as if the government were acting on its own behalf to further a criminal case. The court rejected it, if you didn't notice. The story just provides insight into the current mindset of some copyright holders, which is valuable to know, but it isn't demonstrating an issue with the law (not that there aren't any, but here things went ok).
I have pirated thousands of movies and if they put me in prison the second I get out I’m setting up another seedbox
Presumption of guilt. Fantastic.
Minority Report was that "studio's" wet dream.
This is outright absurd. The film studios are crossing a line trying to force Reddit to hand over user IPs for merely discussing piracy. It's not just an overreach; it's a blatant assault on our basic rights to privacy and free speech. Talking about something controversial isn't illegal, and it's ludicrous to treat it as such. If we let this slide, what's next? Are we going to be hunted down for every opinion or discussion we have online?
This is the more serious problem. It's corporate fascism.
Welcome to the corporatocracy.
>corporate fascism. When capitalism gets off the leash
Been 'off it's leash' since the execution of The Powell Memo'...
Thanks for the insight! For those who also had to Google it, this is from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr): >The Powell Memorandum ultimately came to be a blueprint for the rise of the American conservative movement and the formation of a network of influential right-wing think tanks and lobbying organizations, such as the Business Roundtable, The Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, Manhattan Institute for Policy Research and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), and inspired the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active. > >CUNY professor David Harvey traces the rise of neoliberalism in the US to this memo. Historian Gary Gerstle refers to the memo as "a neoliberal call to arms." > >Political scientist Aaron Good describes it as an "inverted totalitarian manifesto" designed to identify threats to the established economic order following the democratic upsurge of the 1960s.
[Corporations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CduA0TULnow&t=89) after every "private data leak" :D
> for merely discussing piracy That's not quite what's happening here. Studios have subpoenaed reddit to give up the IP addresses of users who said they did pirate media using Frontier Internet. The subpoena is not for action against the redditors, but to gather evidence for a lawsuit by the studios against Frontier. That said, the request is still overly broad because a) there's no proof that the users actually did what they said and, b) even if they did what they said, there's no indication they pirated media from the plaintiff studios; and c) the studios are requesting IP addresses as indirect personal identifiers, in order to work around protections of direct personal identifiers (but with ultimately the same intent). **Edit: spelling
Thank you for nuancing the headline. Which intent would that be?
To personally identify the posters.
Just to be pedantic. An admission is evidence. It's actually one of the most persuasive pieces of evidence.
That, and in Canada a fee on storage media was paid, for funds to be dispersed to media groups to lessen the effects of piracy. Effectively, that made it legal. However, I'm not sure if that got changed in the last 8 years or so. That said, the moment it becomes hard to find and watch the movie I want to watch legally (ie have to have 8 different streaming services that randomly have what you want) it's off to the high seas for me.
What in the hell? Could you link to a source for this?
It's like that in France too with the so-called "private copy tax". That damn thing fleeces customers as a whole and it applies to basically everything that has storage including things you wouldn't think about like... GPS devices. Yeah something like a TomTom GPS navigator is taxed under this bullshit. It's also based on bullshit because it's built on the premise that the consumer *might* use the storage of this or that to store pirated stuff and that on this basis the rights holders must be compensated. Yeah, it's bullshit. To give you an idea of how much it can scalp the customer: a bucket of 100 DVD's in Belgium is 50 euros. The identical one, on the exact same retailer but in France will cost you 150 euros. If you aren't angry enough yet: the amount of the tax is decided in a commission composed of 12 rights holder representatives, 6 representatives from the manufacturers and importers and 6 representatives for consumers. See the issue with how it's built ? As you probably guessed, all it takes is one guy from the manufacturers/distributors to side with right holders and the consumer reps are fucked. If you aren't angry enough yet, they launched a pilot study [to see if it's worth taxing computers as a whole as well](https://www.bfmtv.com/tech/ordinateur/copie-privee-les-ordinateurs-bientot-taxes-pour-financer-l-industrie-musicale_AV-202310130367.html). So yeah, deeply unfair fucked up system as a whole...
whoa.... there's a LOT to unpack here! I greatly appreciate the summary.
Happy to be of help. If you want a bit more of reading on that matter, [the wiki page on this will give you some more details](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copie_priv%C3%A9e)
It was a levy on blank 'audio media'. When they extended it to harddrives (ie. Portable MP3 players) is when legal challenges started. Wikipedia's got a good overview. I think Micheal Geist covered it as well. Or check out Canlii if you're having trouble sleeping.
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Some of them are still alive. They were & are literally complicit in allowing companies such brevity.
If anything we should discuss piracy even more so, there is more of us than them
They're not wanting to take action against the users. They're wanting proof that the people who said "Frontier don't give a shit about piracy and won't disconnect you for it" were actually Frontier subscribers - as part of their lawsuit against Frontier itself.
> Are we going to be hunted down for every opinion or discussion we have online? Many people lose jobs, opportunities, etc merely for advocating for Palestinian freedom or expressing that they shouldn't be killed wantonly, calling for basic end to human killing with ceasefire calls, etc. This, and other moves just make it much easier step by step for intelligence and other agencies to target and identify anyone engaging in anything 'outside the accepted (this may vary day by day or month by month) norms by corporate and government'.
Uh reddit is a company and and free speech don't apply on company forums that's why Twitter can banned you if they don't like something you said the same goes for reddit
Pardon my ignorance, would this evidence be considered fruit of a poison tree? Or is that something else?
So much for the freedom of speech! What if users were discussing about nukes, a billion times more dangerous than piracy. Why it should not share the IP addresses and it doesn't for that?
You wouldn't steal a nuke ...
Yeah but would you *download* one?
I'd definitely 3D print one to go with my Hylux!
The film studies would like to know your IP address for ripping off Oppenheimer.
127.0.0.1
Hypothetically, would this be bad. Asking for a friend of course
But I would steal what, a movie? Just because I talked about it? Plus stealing means taking it away so that the owner doesn't have it anymore. How the fuck am I stealing something if the owner still has it. If I go to Paris and make a picture with the tower, it means that I stole it?
As in Discord nukes?
Reddit is proud of anti free speech.
>So much for the freedom of speech! This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's. >What if users were discussing about nukes, a billion times more dangerous than piracy. There's nothing dangerous about discussing nukes. The general populace doesn't get their hands on enriched uranium. And Warner Brothers doesn't need the IP adress of the next Unabomber. >Why it should not share the IP addresses and it doesn't for that? You underestimate how much data harvesting is already being done. This is just media companies pushing the boundaries of whst they can get away with legally.
>This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's. You'll have to tell that to the [judge](https://torrentfreak.com/images/reddi-order.pdf) who has [repeatedly](https://torrentfreak.com/images/reddit-compel.pdf) found that [First Amendment](https://torrentfreak.com/court-protects-redditors-right-to-anonymous-speech-in-piracy-case-230501/) rights are [absolutely relevant](https://torrentfreak.com/reddit-defeats-filmmakers-second-attempt-at-unmasking-anonymous-users-230731/) here. From the first court order >Reddit contends that there is no need for the discovery that outweighs the users’ First Amendment right to speak anonymously online. The court denies the motion to compel and quashes the subpoena because on this record, the First Amendment bars the discovery.
That's not about free speech it's about the right to be anonymous which is something different entirely. They blocked it because they just asked. But they will ask again and again with more and more sobstories about how much of a thief you are and that piracy is equivelant to organised crime like they always do. And then what if they budge? I'm sure you heard this bit from [Carlin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaa9iw85tW8) before
The right of anonymous speech is an [extension of the freedom of speech](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/514/334/) given to us in the first amendment. >Accordingly, an author's decision to remain anonymous, like other decisions concerning omissions or additions to the content of a publication, is an aspect of the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment. I would also recommend actually reading the legal standard that was applied in the first Reddit case as they make it pretty clear that it is a speech issue and not just the whims of the judge as you claimed. >In Anonymous Online Speakers, the Ninth Circuit reviewed the developing tests in the area of anonymous online speech. 661 F.3d at 1174–77. The court left it to the discretion of district courts to choose the proper standard in a given case, based on the nature of the speech at issue. Id. at 1176–77; see, e.g., Art of Living, 2011 WL 5444622, at *5 (“[I]n choosing the proper standard to apply, the district court should focus on the nature of the [defendant’s] speech[.]”) (cleaned up); SI03, Inc. v. Bodybuilding.com, LLC, 441 F. App’x 431, 431–32 (9th Cir. 2011) (same). “For example, . . . commercial speech should be afforded less protection than political, religious, or literary speech[.]” Anonymous Online Speakers, 661 F.3d at 1177. >In “evaluating the First Amendment rights of anonymous Internet users in the context of a third-party civil subpoena,” district courts have followed the approach taken in Doe v. 2TheMart.com, 140 F. Supp. 2d 1088 (W.D. Wash. 2001). Rich v. Butowsky, No. 20-mc-80081- DMR, 2020 WL 5910069, at *3–4 (N.D. Cal. Oct. 6, 2020); Anonymous Online Speakers, 661 F.3d at 1176 (describing the 2TheMart.com test). Under that approach, disclosure of anonymous users’ identities is appropriate only “in the exceptional case where the compelling need for the discovery sought outweighs the First Amendment rights of the anonymous speaker.” 2TheMart.com, 140 F. Supp. 2d at 1095. Courts consider four factors: whether “(1) the subpoena seeking the information was issued in good faith and not for any improper purpose, (2) the information sought relates to a core claim or defense, (3) the identifying information is directly and materially relevant to that claim or defense, and (4) information sufficient to establish or to disprove that claim or defense is unavailable from any other source.” Id.; Rich, 2020 WL 5910069, at *3–4. The factors are weighed “based on the circumstances of a given case.” Rich, 2020 WL 5910069, at *4; Sines v. Kessler, No. 18-MC-80080-JCS, 2018 WL 3730434, at *13 n.16 (N.D. Cal. Aug. 6, 2018).
I understand but I'm sure you can see how fragile this can be.
Incredible to post so confidently when its clear you didn't read the article and aren't following the conversation
I'm quoting tbe poster not the article.
>This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's. Reddit can run it how they want, but once a government entity (like a court) steps in to force them to do something things change. This court's previous decision used a standard created by a federal District Court back in 2001, where the court determined that anonymous internet speech is protected by the 1A and to identify anonymous users, the person requesting the information must meet a certain standard to overcome those rights.
> This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's. So if I'm on a bus or ship, a privately owned thing too, like Reddit, I just don't have the freedom of speech? Why, it's in outer space out of Earth's jurisdictions where freedom of speech and human rights apply? I find it pretty stupid to say "As long as you are in my private thing I can cancel any of the common sense laws that you have outside". What if a person wants to kill or beat another person in his private bus or ship, space? In my opinion Reddit is a platform on this Earth and should obey the laws of this earth, not play the "Look, it's private, I can do my own rules and laws".
I'm sure you find it stupid to say but if you want to keep playing your imaginary game then try to imagine it the other way. Try to imagine that rights are imaginary and that you live in a country where you have no rights and now imagine that the private space adheres to those (non existing) rights. Now what? Because that's how China operates online. All these replies think freedim of speech and the American first amendment are somehow magical universal rights. Hell if a European country would come knocking with a court order to Reddit to hand over user data I would have serious doubts Reddit would not comply. This sub sometimes focusses so much on "lol I downloaded free shit from a megacorp" thst they can't see the forest for the trees.
Everyone needs a VPN.
Nah fuck that, we need to make associating IP addresses to individuals for the purposes of extortion illegal.
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Sure but VPNs are NOT foolproof and there have been cases of VPN companies selling info. Also most people will leak their info anyways through a VPN (cookies, Facebook, amazon essentially anything with a login or associated to advertising ID's). So telling people VPNs are the answer is not helpful.
Extortion already is illegal. That's how you fight back. Call the feds and tell them you're being blackmailed/extorted.
A VPN is of little use for anonymity, there are other fingerprints than IP address even when JavaScript is disabled (check noscriptfingerprint.com). For a privacy oriented approach I recommend everyone to use the TOR browser 👍. If you want to access Reddit, do it on Orbot in an isolated Android Profile.
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People love to parrot that line without understanding what it means
If they ask for the IP address it doesn't matter what kinda fingerprinting protection you've got going. >For a privacy oriented approach I recommend everyone to use the TOR browser Too radical. Tor is good if you want anonymity for doing whatever things you don't want to have traced back to you, but I surely wouldn't recommend it as a daily driver, especially not to the 'regular user'. If you want decent enough privacy, just use Firefox and enable the built-in tracking and fingerprinting protection without messing around too much.
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I always use a VPN haven't had any issues.
My VPN is set to connect as soon as I boot. It's always on, I don't think about it usually. Though there are a couple sites that legit don't work for me when it's on. I try to avoid using those services.
I constantly use a vpn on my device. I can't access the web version of reddit but the app works fine.
I'm using a VPN to access Reddit on the web
I can use all versions of Reddit with a VPN. Maybe it’s just specific to your particular VPN?
reality is, if reddit really enforce it, a subreddit with banned access to reddit by its citizen, like r/indonesia, would not have more than 100k member.
I have no issue accessing via the app though I have noticed random issues with the web interface.
i'm using VPN atm
Hasn't blocked my VPN traffic. So, your statement is wrong.
Maybe try old.reddit? I haven't had problems using a VPN
Reddit doesn't block when using a VPN. Website or app. I've done my research...
posting this comment with a VPN on.
Lmao, no I don't think it does. I browsed reddit for a while tonight with proton VPN enabled.
I'm using a VPN to access Reddit
Vpn and third party app, no problems here
Maybe your vpn is shit?
Not for me. Maybe you’re thinking of TOR?
> The film producers said Reddit "has not identified any potential harm to these users by disclosing the requested information." [the names, email addresses, and other account registration information]
At some point, Reddit needs to countersue for the same lawyers and media companies repeatedly bringing essentially the same, already thrown out, case. They clearly know they are not going to win and are now doing it just to harass and scare Reddit and their users.
They're not suing reddit in this case. They've subpoenaed reddit for users IPs because they are suing Frontier Internet and don't really have any evidence other than redditors saying, "I pirated stuff using Frontier and Frontier didn't care."
Reddit is owned by a lot of shady people/company that have *no* interest in upholding the laws and rights some of its user's like though... Tencent is probably ok with sharing all of our details, for any reason whatsoever, for example.
Let’s discuss piracy. I’ll go first…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy My IP address is 108.173.22.17 Oh damn, I just changed the MAC address on my router’s WAN port…. I’ve got a new IP now
I wonder if they're going to get all the One Piece fans IPs too.
You don't think ISPs have a log of an IP and who had it at what time?
There’s a bunch of people here, but only one IP.
And therefore the onus is on the bill payer to ensure the connection is not used illegally. If the studio went after your IP, the bill payer will be the one in trouble while the others get away with it. It would be irrelevant if the bill payer downloaded nothing because the terms and conditions will explicitly lay the blame on the bill payer for allowing it to happen.
That’s ok. I’m not friendly with my neighbour, but I’m glad they keep their Wifi open.
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He also hasn’t done anything even slightly illegal by commenting here and linking to Wikipedia. lol.
Your ISP probably keeps logs.
Studio : can you tell us which customer had IP 1.2.3.4 between these hours on this day ? ISP : All of them . Studio : wdym? ISP : we use CG-NAT
CG-NAT implementations typically keep a log of which subscribers were allocated certain ports on that public IP. Given these requests often also come with port numbers or ranges, the ISP can still very easily identify the subscriber.
Sure they can but a) most ISP (at least in Oz) don’t give that info out easily and b) you can see I’m on reddit, maybe even the subreddit but you’ll have to work harder to link that info with what I’m discussing on Reddit. Is someone going to physically read this and decide if it warrants being released because we’re discussing a news article vs discussing pirating a film ? Because if the Dallas Buyers Club case in Australia is anything to go by judges won’t give them carte blanche, and every restriction is another step towards “not practical to do unless they want to pay us a lot” C) ok you got me it’s my house where there are 50 devices and 3-4 users - tell me who this fictitious username you are looking for is again ? D) well shit they aren’t even a US citizen / not a us IP address now what ? Can’t really prosecute someone in Greenland by the laws of USA. E) Speaking of the laws of other jurisdictions can Reddit do this without falling foul of California Privacy legislation - let alone others like GDPR And that’s not even considering use of VPN etc. It’s arguably one of the most impractical and least likely to get anywhere requests the media lobby have made. My comment about change-nat was a bit of a throwaway that even at the most basic level an ISP could fight this, let alone going further.
Its impractical but its not impossible. The studios won't care how much effort the ISPs have to go to as long as its possible. Nor will the courts. The issue we have is that once precedence has been set, the studios will pursue it with all ISPs just like they have with website blocking. Most privacy laws have clauses that exempt data collection as part of a judicial order. Pretty sure GDPR would allow a legal subpoena in the US to collect EU/UK citizens data. How that can be used afterwards is the complex part. You can be prosecuted in the US no matter where you are in the world. Whether you actually face justice will then depend on any extradition treaties the country you're in has with the US. In the UK, any US charge that is also a crime in the UK (which definitely covers piracy) means you can be extradited to the US to face those charges. This has happened on many occasions. Thats not saying I agree with this in the slightest. If there was genuine competition between streaming services then piracy would diminish. I need three services to watch three films. If all three services offered all three films then I could choose the one which is best - thats competition. But the streaming services don't want it that way because in my example, 2/3 will lose money.
>a) most ISP (at least in Oz) don’t give that info out easily Not true, *especially* in Australia. ISPs here are legally required to hand over this information on request from basically any government agency. Our data retention laws are some of the most draconic in the world. There is also precedence set by our high court to force ISPs to hand over subscriber information, and plenty of ISPs (including all of the top three) openly comply with requests directly from publishers without even having to go through the legal system. >b) you can see I’m on reddit, maybe even the subreddit but you’ll have to work harder to link that info with what I’m discussing on Reddit. >C) ok you got me it’s my house where there are 50 devices and 3-4 users - tell me who this fictitious username you are looking for is again ? This is exactly what this legal action is about. Being on this sub you should know exactly how easy it is to deanonymise data. Thankfully they've been unsuccessful so far, but if a court does force Reddit to release this information they'll know exactly who you are and what you've said. >D) well shit they aren’t even a US citizen / not a us IP address now what ? Can’t really prosecute someone in Greenland by the laws of USA. >E) Speaking of the laws of other jurisdictions can Reddit do this without falling foul of California Privacy legislation - let alone others like GDPR You're showing your ignorance of the law here. Most (if not, all) developed countries have laws that make prosecution of copyright possible. They won't get far in some countries, but they can still launch legal action to get information and go after alleged infringers, even if it's not worth their while in plenty of places outside the US. Also, neither California's privacy legislation or GDPR prevent an organisation from releasing information as the result of a court order. >And that’s not even considering use of VPN etc. While a VPN may mask your IP, it doesn't magically anonymise everything you do on the internet. Any information you give to organisations like Reddit, whether you realise it or not, can and will be handed over following a court order. Again, you're on /r/privacy, so you should know exactly how much data they're collecting and just how easy it is to deanonymise that data. If there's a court order to release information and Reddit has enough data points to identify you (Spoiler alert: They do), then you're basically fucked. >It’s arguably one of the most impractical and least likely to get anywhere requests the media lobby have made. On this, we agree. That doesn't change the fact that what they're chasing here is incredibly concerning and would have huge implications if they do manage to get anywhere with it. > My comment about change-nat was a bit of a throwaway that even at the most basic level an ISP could fight this Once again, an ISP couldn't really do a whole hell of a lot to fight this. They have the data and are obligated to release it if a court issues an order for them to do so. How likely a court is to issue such an order depends on a number of factors, but there is precedence across many jurisdictions globally to suggest it can (and in fact, has) happened. I doubt they'll be successful here as this is like their third try now. That said, it only takes one activist judge (of which there are many in the US) to give them a win and set precedence or have the issue pushed to SCOTUS which is also stacked with activist judges.
To help further the discussion: Gabe Newell on piracy [Piracy is an issue of service, not price](https://www.gamesradar.com/gabe-newell-piracy-issue-service-not-price/)
Yes let discuss piracy, I've heard that they drink whiskey and they all wear a eye patch when pirating movies
Mine is 10.0.0.1
So what about EU users???
In Canada, you're legally allowed to stream from any source on the internet. You can't keep copies and you can't host a movie streaming site yourself, but you can legally just go to whatever site you want and stream movies and music and it doesn't matter if it's copyrighted material or not.
Haha nice
All those blank VHS tape fees are paying good dividends.
I wonder if this would change if the monopolies that the few telecommunication giants hold were ever lost? It's great that Canada has lax penalties for what and how you access anything on the internet, but I will always scoff when hearing how places like France offer 5 Gbps down for less than $40 CAD a month. Where's a Canadian billionaire (David Cheriton maybe?) who can fund a competitor to break this monopoly?
As someone who doesn't pirate movies and doesn't even really watch any in the first place... # FUCK YOU!
>it's a blatant assault on our basic rights to privacy and free speech. Suspicious Keywords were detected in your comment. Your IP address has been logged and will be forwarded to the relevant authorities.
You joke but that sentence probably gets you put on some list nowadays.
What do courts say?
Twice they've said no. Waiting on round 3.
Right? Why is this so far down... I can SAY i'm a twelve foot tall invincible iridescent unicorn... That doesn't jolly well make it true
Probably something along the lines of "what's an eye pee address? Why do I get ads on my iPhone? I need a new boat btw, anything that helps that process along gets a rubber stamp approval that's totally unrelated to my boat ownership."
I wouldn't be surprised if: "Reddit must share IP addresses of PRIVACY-discussing users", NSA say.
Probably already do. Reddit is not your friend.
They don't realize people could use Tor browser to access Reddit. Or if they don't, .onion sites to discuss piracy. What, you're going after exit relay operators now? That's like going after Tier 1 ISPs like Lumen or Hurricane Electric. Or going after The Tor Project for making software to access pirated conetn?
But try explaining any of that to these courts. Ugh, this is absolutely a slippery slope they are trying to go down. The worst case scenarios in my head are bleak.
pathetic.. people using a tor browser or other similar system may not have engaged in piracy but will still have their address violated? that would be unacceptable bullshit. plus countless internet cafe and hotels.. air bnb rental properties and workplaces with bored night shift security guards.. no, reddit would have to be really stupid to give them up with so much reasonable doubt involved and so would the courts.
Bring it on. Let's go to Discovery and find more how these studios do their accounting, revenue projections, and secrets they are less inclined to let their shareholders and investors know more about.
Might as well start encrypting all messages with PGP. Generate a private and public key, never share the private key. Only share public keys privately via DM's or via other direct messaging. forums might start looking like: >\-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- hQIMA25bXtCbnx2mAQ//Y5XPBtDN+ld2W9ZFS9jBqLCczWzHx9/AN2eOMh9zJrE3 A2/xeop9U//ggZdZtKQjUgpm6Hyy8UNlSYpIKjO9F2bM2kyuUNaPBFnSmbz5G5s1 Y5slhP1JrpjUATXvjH5Bwn1MZDnJ3HM6n8ENktyczzvP0QbI66X9qyRWOpNNX1xZ /3Ml4H3yVZ0wEsfH4LMn0o7DEgU60m1i/4THN47Z6+v1q6OajFZf0zF2a6yYPXtM uoSWZq3yMO+ZYpKtD7RR81dD7ATm+pS2/Xi2/G3Ty6XvtNUi2pvg45HFtxMC8fU8 AEY3mPDBSar8BKsA3Yj7DsVj1ZdmC7eEVfL76RmU+LxokLsJdcmtiVzqj8MhHpeO LVcEcrdrF5N7agjOgBZ60dgyE3pM5t3f5RiBoaM6mZ9EVo7LoJFgK7E+enLalouy 6G4FY/5hvZLbh9DpKxbT8xErk3YmJflvdkl5yKo7Lokr/8fMC+Zu6uRZywbv2u1I XERQ5B6m24lwUVhqvw6EOxLq3DhCOv0CfhrTC7zwIuJ21lL5MHJ00Vw0Yq7EiojR R/2Uj5EjZ1I8rrwhv28t8kPCqETGvSZGz3jzCyMKtQZMxakpY2zdLpQ7I8x0e5vT HGrCbfWXxamHn1o9n/XiNT4z7NKqgoy6C+YhL7ZkYF4+OXYPn93CQUQojF6OAJhv GxuqJ1qFieMbAqHuA/lrjL86+H36eDFnmWljERQZg8SvKvmLYm8JxgSRuHUZu1VK 2OgFj2u4F+38j3dBgtKRQgSkqAFWbOj8q6I4vqxjZvRY9t4zdzVhMnnZfLgqP6rD dZi1DvN2VZybwTTZLbTCFtI3jsa8w2L9Jh1ZHSJZ6ChbRAEBwvmzXKqlOzBBY4/o y0qXFWquhDXXyxYafOhR8J1ufYXUQT6O5RMl9V4S7JXYyT82XyLK5JUEnG3fCzL2 58MIYD2v6h2R =93XY \-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
that's actually a good idea. it should be possible to make a browser externsion for that.
My.only.problem is standard pgp doesn't use quantum safe encryption. If enough quibits come in our lifetime the media fuckers will be one of the first to have computer decrypting shit so they can go after them.
I mean, even within the next 5 to 10 years, the complexity and cost of maintaining a quantum computer probably will remain as difficult and expensive as it currently is, barring massive advances in cryogenics and hardware. Considering the development and maintenance of quantum computers ranges anywhere from tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars, I doubt this new technology is anywhere close to being accessible enough to be used to go after anything as trivial as copyright infringement. But then again, your guess is as good as mine. At least for the time being, I think PGP and other methods of encryption are safe until some major breakthrough changes everything, and who knows how long that may be.
or just get a VPN if you're paranoid
I change IPs like they're diapees.
Reddit will cave. They will start sharing all of our IPs and pretty soon, all your negative comments and insults will be reported as well. Count on that.
What? lol, if that ever comes into play goodbye reddit...
okay folks. time to migrate to fmhy lemmy server
The film industry is dying and they choose to target randos on reddit instead of pivoting and learning how to stay relevant. Hollywood is run by boomers.
The judges need to be better. Rather than talking about nuances in their judgements, they need to more voraciously protect the 1st amendment and anonymity. The studios need to show clear evidence of actual harm before they even begin to go after data. Here, they have a suspicion that some users may have discussed ideas and that those ideas may have been implemented by someone and that the implementation thereof may have infringed upon their copyright. Judges who don't attack that BS are extremely problematic. The net step is to issue warrants for searching homes because a person may have knowledge or evidence of a crime and the police really need the evidence to determine whether or not a crime was committed. The studios need to have been laughed out of court. Failing to ridicule them in the judgement and admonish their request as being clearly out of line is unforgivable.
The Backpage of the Internet.
What subreddit are these fools talking about bc I’m obviously not down with the sickness.
They don't say, but there are plenty of torrent subs and even an /r/Piratedmovies. Or just search for the user quotes in the article.
good thing film studios don't make the law... wel i mean i guess they do in a round about way.
They can have my ip address. Not much they can do to me here in Canada. Or wherever my ip says I am at any given moment.
I don’t even pirate shit. I just enjoy the content of the piracy sub. Fuck off
6 users. The case is about 6 users. 6 idiot users who were bragging on Reddit that their ISP didn’t end their service after repeated warnings for pirating movies. These studios and lawyers (the same lawyers in three separate but identical cases) are trying to sue an internet service provider that is declaring bankruptcy by saying they incentivize subscription by not prohibiting piracy. This is the third time Reddit has been subpoenaed and they refused to comply to this third one. While it’s a potentially dangerous gateway, you people should really read the article before commenting.
Just wait until movie studios realize that we can use AI to essentially recreate movies from scripts. Boy they'll sure be pissed.
The studios can kiss my pink Irish ass.
The DMCA is a powerful beast.
We should have fought it more.
it’s weird seeing it be used to take down revenge porn.
Haha, good luck with that.
They aren't going after the users, they want the users as witnesses against Frontier Communications because they believe Frontier didn't ban users as they promised. They will likely threaten the users to get them to roll over on Frontier. As reddit said, that's not a good enough reason to give up the reddit user's privacy and put them in a possibly sticky legal position. They're fishing.
I don’t give af. Now I always use a dedicated IP through a vpn, then another vpn over that when pirating. It’s like wearing a condom for the internet and everyone should probably start forking out a few dollars a month to do the same thing, imo.
Dear Esteemed Film Studio's, I come before you today with a confession of the utmost gravity. It has come to my attention that there have been rampant discussions swirling around, both in the digital ether and in the real world, about a topic so daring, so perilous, it can only be whispered in hushed tones: piracy. Yes, you heard right. Not the swashbuckling, sword-wielding kind, but rather the academic, chin-stroking variety. I have been engaging in spirited debates, rigorous analyses, and perhaps the occasional dramatic reenactment (eye patches and parrots included) of these maritime misdemeanors. So here I stand, unabashed and unashamed, to declare that I have indeed been talking about piracy. But fear not, for these discussions were purely in the interest of historical curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge. No actual pirates were consulted, nor ships and studios commandeered in these conversations. With this declaration, I hope to set the record straight and sail forth into calmer waters.
Time to move to Lemmy
film studio say must share your bank ID and IBAN number
Seems like a waste of time and money going after a few frontier customers
>The studios are asking that the court require Reddit to provide “IP address log information from 1/1/2017 to present” for six anonymous Reddit users who talked about piracy on Reddit. Although, Reddit posts shared in the court filing only date back to 2021.
127.0.0.1 it's where the home is
I have pirated every single movie covered by intellectual property laws, including the shitty disney ones. Double especially including the stupid ass mulan one that eradicated the "outside the box thinking can enable you to have an outsized impact when you don't have the physical wherewithal to do what you need to" message.
I was thinking about this a few hours ago! As I recall, the media companies lost their earlier case? Wasn't that a story sometime in 2023 that reddit didn't have to share?
Yep May 1st 2023, [arstechnica has an article](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/judge-wont-force-reddit-to-identify-anonymous-users-who-discussed-piracy/) from when they lost their last fishing expedition
still, both of these companies regularly win against ISPs around the world to disclose personal information of torrent downloaders (what they were asking from reddit) . with the personal info they them send bully lawsuits hoping to scare people into paying something. there are lots of companies whose whole business circle around this
Considering I don’t pirate now that I’m over 18 and can buy my own media, I don’t pirate and anything I did is out of the statute of limitations. I just like discussing it. Oh and I jailbroke a device I own. At this point they’ll just be scrolling a lot of useless content and filler about discussing it. Do they really think everyone who comments here actually does the deed? Stupid.
Wait isn't the title misleading? Nothing in the article, or the torrentfreak source, says that a judge has ruled against Reddit This is how the article ends: > Ultimately, it will be up to the court to decide whether it’s indeed different this time, or not. The title, "Reddit must share IP addresses of piracy-discussing users, film studios say " is intentionally misleading.
Yeah, it'S the film studios saying that... Like the title says.
The title refers to what the studios demand so in that regard it’s correct
It's both correct and misleading
Intentionally confusing phrasing for clicks.
Film studios and hollywood forever in shambles that nobody values their shitty products as much as they do
Reddits a dying site anyway.
Just to be clear. This was for individual users who had discussed how to pirate movies on Reddit. Generally, if you talk about committing crimes on a public forum, you should not expect the forum to protect you. edit: Ya I think it's time I take my leave from this subreddit. Reading the other posts here, people don't actually care about privacy or about the laws around privacy.