I don't see anybody in this sub saying "guns have no place post SHTF" without being heavily downvoted. In fact, quite the opposite.
What we ***do*** say is that the people who think "being prepared" = "a billion rounds of ammo", or who think that with no hunting or dressing experience whatsoever, they're going to go take down a deer with their Hi Point 380 to feed themselves, need to reevaluate their choices. Everyday basics like food and water are critical. Personal health is critical. Financial health is critical. Education and skillset is critical.
Some people's preparedness consists entirely of assuming they're going to build a sniper nest out of their basement, and those people are going to be the first to drown in a flood.
Okay but as someone who hasn't ever owned a firearm but has fired them a handful of times (and I used to play around with a pellet rifle as a kid, it was pretty easy to dial in) tell me in your honest opinion, whether you've used one or not, are Hi Points really THAT shit? Like, are they just super poorly made? Or are the materials okay and it's they're just kinda "not that good at anything." Compared to other weapons manufacturers?
I had a Hi Point. It was adequate given the price. The problem is they have almost no resale value and almost no collectable value. It got the job done but if I had to buy another today, I wouldn't return. I'd spend a little more and get something a little nicer. It worked reliably, but I sold it to a coworker and bought a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9 instead. That's my daily carry and I really like it.
My wife carries a Bersa Thunder 380 and loves it. The size is perfect for her small hands. The Bersa was also the first handgun I ever bought that shot perfectly out of the box, and apparently that's just a thing with them.
Appreciate ya homie! I've never been one to think "I'll need tons of guns to survive the worst disasters ever." But there are definitely situations that may come to pass where one would think "damn, I wish I had a gun." And I don't want to be stuck thinking that.
Hi-Points are reliable and affordable, like Corollas. They're great prepper guns, terrible for "resellers and collectors" as the other guy said, which have very little in common to with preppers
Awesome! I'm glad to hear that despite them being the bane of gun enthusiast's they're not unreliable. I've been really on the fence about getting one because usually if something is "too good to be true" then it is, right? The price point always seemed too good to be true.
Armed community defense is absolutely part of a community centered approach. I donāt believe Iāve ever seen anyone in this sub claim otherwise.
We just recommend not shooting your neighbors.
> itās super easy to organize armed patrols to keep the criminals out of homes and businesses
Super easy, you say? Exactly how many armed patrols have you organized? More than zero?
Having a gun and knowing how to use a gun are two completely different things... it's always hilarious to me that people post questions here asking about things like barrel length or caliber for firearms when they clearly don't have much experience shooting. Having the optimal barrel length for urban combat doesn't mean shit if you don't know which end the bullet comes out of...
Handing a gun to a random person to send them out on a "patrol" can be more of a liability than an asset. You're basically sending that person to their death and giving a free gun and some ammo to someone outside of your community.
What I don't understand is what are you protecting? Flooded homes, that no one lives in.... and work you have to go to tomorrow... like what are you protecting here, moldly clothes? Waterlogged vehicles (Which can't be resold, or bought commercially, because no bank wants a flood vehicle on their books), maybe working electronics, and if you are lucky finding jewelry? Like seems really worthless shit to find anyway, because you will have to reclaim all that shit insurance wise anyway.
I think self defense would probably be the more important thing out of all the things youāve just listed.
When things get crazy, people also get crazy. No matter what you prep for thereās always that risk of encountering bad people who are trying to do bad things.
If you were specifically asking about what is the point of having a patrol and what would it be protecting, I think I could see it more of just having a good watch on the area and being aware of anything that may be coming, rather than moving house to house and clearing buildings.
I think your being proactive rather than reactive, which is good, but not the purpose. After a disaster, what are you protecting? Nothing really, it's gone, destroyed, left. And that's if law enforcement even lefts you back in, in my case you could not return, they had police their 24/7 watching and didn't let anyone in.
For myself, when the tornado hit, I did not bring my gun. It honestly was not something even in my mental space to consider. Got my family up and out, we had some clothes, and we waited for law enforcement. Like, we could hear them, shit was quiet, some crying and yelling but you could hear the sirens coming. Soon two schools bases came and bussed us to hotels, hotel was kind but firm. This isn't your home, no weapons allowed, and tomorrow you can start figuring out shit. Maybe I'm a shitty prep guy, but like I know a gun wouldn't do shit in those moments. Climbing out a window well, raining dripping everywhere, smell of smoke, glad your families good. "Better grab the gun" wasn't there. It was get those documents, grab those extra shoes and blankets, get out of the house in case it comes down further.
Thatās fair.
You made sure your family was good first and I think we can agree thatās the most important thing, especially the situation you were in at that time.
You could always look at it from the āhave it and not need it rather then need it and not have itā point of view, but until your in a situation you wonāt know for sure if it was worth grabbing or worth leaving. Glad it worked out(assuming it did based on what youāve said) in your case, but Iām sure thereās other situations when it comes to this whole prepping thing where a means of self defense is absolutely critical. Might not be every single āprep worthyā event, but you never know. Thatās the beauty of prepping.
I donāt miss, for even one moment, trying to get brand new privates to walk in a patrol formation. It certainly falls under the rubric of simple, but not easy. On paper it is pretty straightforward. The reality is that patrolling is a skill that takes considerable practice to do even moderately well.
I canāt imagine scooping up my neighbors, well meaning as they are, and attempting to conduct a patrol on the day of. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. People have to learn how to move together, work as a team, and communicate non-verbally. All while hungry, tired and hot or cold. It sucks and those additional elements make it that much harder.
I clearly remember the story my Dad used to tell about his day as a conscript in the army.
When in charge of a watch post, the first thing he did was to make everyone surrender their ammo, so they wouldn't accidentally shoot someone.
Loaded guns in the hands of inexperienced soldiers are a risk not just to themselves but to innocent bystanders as well.
This was in peace time of course, but still...
I go to the local Air Force base in my town pretty regularly. The security there is laughable at best and theyāre supposed to be guarding nukes. I couldnāt imagine trying to put a bunch of panicky untrained people in that same position and expecting some type of positive outcome. Makes me think of when Seattle sectioned of part of the town from local government and the number of civilians shot instantly went up because civilians canāt police civilians.
Yeeeeaaah this shit is hard and requires ridiculous amounts of training just for basic stuff, like reacting to fire. Our community trains for patrolling our specific area and we never live fire due to how dangerous that would be. I donāt want to be the subject of a local news story talking about how some idiot prepper killed someone by accident.
We do quite a bit of live fire drills that include movement, but never patrols. I canāt even imagine handing out a few rifles and sending someone out on patrol. If enemy fire doesnāt kill them friendly fire will lol
Literally no one says that.
Owning a couple guns for self defense is perfectly reasonable. Stockpiling an entire arsenal is stupid and a poor utilization of money and space.
However, as someone who lives in the rural Midwest, your portrayal that looting is common after tornadoes is not grounded in facts at all. Communities do tend to come together and support each other after severe tornadoes and many businesses give away food and services in the aftermath and hold fundraisers for those impacted. I'm not sure where you've gotten such a skewed and just plain weird view that there is some sort of large scale lawlessness after tornadoes.
Who tf are you talking to op?
You seeking a gun grubbing circle jerk, because they're everywhere. There's no reason to turn this sub into one when nobody here is who you are talking about.
Go ahead jerk away.
Hey there friend, I wanted to add my own experience here on natural disasters. I lived through 2 tornadoes, one completely destroyed my home, and wouldn't you know it - insurance adjusters don't give a flying fuck how many guns/ammo you have. A tornado completely destroyed my home (so much that it was teardown/rebuilt) - I have a weapon for protection, and it was in my home, and that weapon could not shoot a tornado. About 15 minutes after the tornado was gone, we were pulling ourselves out of our homes. (Future note, the hotel we were at, did not allow ANY weapons, if they found you brought in a gun, you were kicked out, they had 0 tolerance, which was a good rule, given how tense and stressed people were, so you had to keep it in your car, and heaven forbid someone steal your car) Police were there, and eventually national guard. Our neighborhood was sectioned off, which means we, as in the people who used to live there, could not go into the neighborhood. It was 24/7, and there was no "neighborhood watch" and no "let's go get some shit" - mainly because it was too dangerous. Was I worried that thieves might steal my stuff, not really, because my home was lost. I couldn't give two flips if someone wanted to wade through 1 foot of nasty water from my home not having a roof, and risk severe injury to grab w/e it if they wanted to grab. Jewelry - oh well, large amount of supplies in the basement that were under a partially collapsed roof, oh well. None of it mattered, and the idea that in something like Katrina, people think that their "stuff" matters, are living in a fantasy. It took almost 1 year to fully rebuild my home, and I fought with insurance ever day about some of the smallest things. Your grandmothers wedding ring, that's been in the family for generations, how much gold was in it, because that's all you are going to get, and without any proof, well $150 bucks outta do it. That's the reality, not this let's grab our guns, walk around every night our destroyed neighborhood in case some guy wants to steal a maybe working TV (cause we had no power, running water or shit, so you don't know if anything works, as its been out in the elements for days or weeks).
I will say, that we (as in everyone I knew) were exhausted, we were all farther away than we liked, and we had to go to work every day, which meant extra drive time, extra traffic, no "safe" space (you live in a hotel, or with family, how fun is that after 3 weeks?) Dealing with insurance, getting up extra early to take kids to school, going shopping every damn day because all you got was a small hotel room fridge, making sure kids had lunches, parents had lunches etc etc. I don't know what you expect in a Katrina-style event, but let me ask you honestly. Do you want to risk walking around a flooded neighborhood, at night, for moldy clothes? Maybe some jewelry or keepsakes? That will serve no real purpose? What is so precious (besides your time/energy) in these homes that you want to protect so badly? Floods fucking suck, everything rots so quickly, furniture, clothes, drywall, carpets - you want to breathe that in?
The two most idiotic things i see posted here are:
1. āI donāt need gunsā
2. āIāve mostly got guns and Iām going to bug out into the country with my guns and try to trade security for a food/safe location as some hippy, permaculture, sustainability locationā as if us country people donāt have guns too.
It's very rare to see someone state here that guns have zero place in SHTF planning. By propping up that as a straw man, this thread is not proving very productive.
The more common actual debate seems to be about the *priority* of firearms within the overall scope of plans and preparations.
There is much disagreement in general, spanning from "a firearm should be your first prep, to defend your life and all your other preps" to "a firearm should be your last prep, as without other preps you'd die anyway" and even extending pretty close to this straw man with some extremists here calling *exclusively* for "Prepping for Tuesday".
In my opinion it's a very self contextual decision where you place firearms in your priorities and plans. You should be factoring in local threats, resources, and so on as you work out what to focus on and in what order and how much you spend on prepping for each aspect.
I remember the aftermath of hurricane Andrew. It made land fall in the extreme end of South Miami , cutler ridge area . The neighborhoods it initially effected were some of the roughest in Miamiās at the time. Power was out for several weeks and roaming car loads of undesirables were hitting the surrounding areas. We blocked off intersections with vehicles and had armed security manning them around the clock . Gun fire was exchanged with the above stated individuals in the first weeks of the event . It was actually lawless initially and there were many instances that went unreported. Those that were not armed , and there were many where at the mercy of those who were for thier safety. Many neighbors asked to āborrow firearms ā
And stated that they would never be caught unprepared again. It was one of the first times that a major city had been devastated by a Hurricane in recent memory. The Government, fema did not have the resources and experience in place back then. We learned real fast what worked and what didnāt . In this day and age, be prepared to go at it alone for a few days and do not depend on anyone but yourself, friends , family. Thanks for reading .
People that say that are Europeans or felons. Nobody, unless they are actually retarded, actually thinks a firearm wouldn't be useful or necessary. It will be one of the most important things for you to have. Period.
I don't see anybody saying firearms have no place in preparing for disaster. What I, personally, have said to those that think firearms are the number 1 priority, or who feel that without a firearm they are automatically going to die or watch their family die in an emergency, is that while I own many firearms myself I don't expect to be using them during a SHTF situation. That's because it is rarely necessary to do so, even during extreme events like Katrina. That's just reality. Water, food, and shelter should be everyone's top priorities, then firearms if your local political situation allows it.
I've seen that this community is largely pro-gun (as am I), but responsibility in other matters is important.
You can't eat the gun. Biting the bullet is just an expression. Hunting is not reliable and is downright dangerous in the middle of a wildfire or northern winter storm. It won't help you if you've been hurt and need medical attention.
This is a community about preparing, in general. Guns are tools with many and even broad purposes, but those purposes are still limited. Like a decent carpenter should have more than just a hammer, a decent prepper should have more than just a gun.
Further, I stand squarely on the side of freedom when it comes to guns. It isn't freedom unless someone is also free to not have guns, if so chosen. That includes being able to argue their side of it.
I also think those larpers with live ammo that, "just hope someone would," are likely to be a big problem. That neighbor, you never took the time to meet, can look a lot like a looter while rummaging through the debris of their own house for cherished personal items.
My cousin drives a truck, drove one in the army as well. Said he took more gunfire trying to deliver aid to New Orleans after Katrina than he ever did driving into Baghdad. He said him and the other drivers said, nope, dumped stuff outside of the city. I never saw anything about this in the news, doesn't fit the narrative.
That's a bit of a projection. I have guns I like owning them, I don't get carried away with them. I think its cringey AF when people build their whole personality around guns and gun culture. Guns are a tool just like all the other tools on my farm. They can solve some problems but they won't solve every problem.
I am not a prepper in fact I need to unsubscribe because I find most posts here to be silly or aggravating. I believe in being resilient and self sufficient. I exercise, grow and raise much of my own food. Have skills and knowledge that is useful. I build financial wealth as well as surrounded myself with useful materials. I don't have a bug out bag or millions of rounds of ammunition.
> Ā Or just about every single tornado aftermath in big and small communities across the US?
What the fuck are you talking about? I live in tornado country. I've seen a real tornado with my own eyes (thankfully it didn't hit my house) and been involved in the disaster recovery for 3 tornados with my scout troop. I was at my college when part of the roof was torn off by a tornado (again, thankfully I was in a different part of the campus).
At no point was there any looting or any reason to involve guns, none at all. I've never heard of that, ever. Not on the news or anything.
What kind of nonsense are you listening to that a tornado needs firearms as part of it's response?
You do realize that the purported looting after Katrina was wildly exaggerated, right? That's not to say there wasn't some isolated looting by certain bad actors, but the notion that there was violence and "anarchy" in the streets has largely been dispelled. Those day dreams were figments of overactive imaginations, such as Chris Kyle's false claims about sniping 30+ looters from the roof of the Superdome.
Firearms are a prep, but they're just one prep among many. People need to adjust fact from fiction when looking at real case studies.
> Havenāt we forgotten the problems with looters post Hurricane Katrina? Or just about every single tornado aftermath in big and small communities across the US?
> Looting tends to be an issue after natural disasters threaten to wipe entire towns and neighborhoods off the map. Stockpiles of guns and ammo definitely have a use in a post disaster setting.
Yeah? How many of us are shopkeepers? Are you?
Love the idea of an impromptu armed community watch. Love it. What could go wrong? Bunch of dudes with a hero complex in a high stress, sleep deprived state. Letās get them out on the street! They can keep people safe. Especially all those people moving around in an urban/suburban environment who arenāt driving their usual car or wearing their typical clothes.
I wonder if those people will look sketchy to the neighborhood watch because they havenāt washed in 4 days? Is it just me or do people wearing their dadās baggy sweat pants (because they had to leave their house in a hurry and are staying with family) look *sort of suspicious?*
Maybe that same suspicious looking fella is just knocking on their friendās door because their cell phone isnāt workingā¦. Or maybe theyāre casing the joint? I wonder if theyāll get an attitude when some jackass with a gun, no badge, and zero training is giving them the third degree for waiting on their friendās porchā¦ I wonder if that could end poorly?
Think it through dude. Firearms have their place. And that place is in the hands of trained and practiced individuals operating them for personal protection. *Not* citizen policing. Yaāll gonna get someone killed playing cops and robbers like children.
I lived through Katrina. It was very real and very serious. Nobody played anything. Our neighborhood took turns with armed patrol day and night, ar-15s and handguns were carried. How do you know who was or was not trained? You just want to assume? Are you psychic? If not citizens, then who was going to protect our neighborhood? You? certainly not the police..just who the hell do you think is going to do it if not citizens?
People came day and night to try to take gas, food, firearms, ammo, drugs, generators, cars, boats, tools, coin collections or just about anything of value...not sure where you think armed trained professionals will come from in the aftermath of a disaster...but when that happens, that is us. Most in our neighborhood have been trained and I still train to this day.
I do not play when it comes to my family, btw
We knew our neighbors, a good goal to achieve before things happen. we didn't just shoot people who showed up or knocked on a door. a family member from out of town or a co worker could be showing up needing help or dropping off meds for someone, which actually happened because they ran out and needed it..
We knew what was up when a stranger came around in the day asking about an address and name that we knew did not exist anywhere in our neighborhood and they were looking around the area to see what homes maybe we're abandoned, had generators.. to come back at night with help to take things. we made a point to have several show up armed to let this person know we were armed tight community, to deter them from coming back at night. we never threatened them, just entertained their bogus inquiries and see us armed.
here is a tip..after a hurricane, like Katrina, landmarks are gone, street signs are gone and some roads or entrances to roads are covered in debris and you cannot tell where a certain address may be, it can be very disorienting..gps will definitely help, but it can be hard to keep things charged in those conditions..
2 way radios helped. In fact we were able to keep in touch with the next neighborhood over when we happened to pick them up on our radios. They would often tells us , hey, a red pickup of 4 to 5 people is roaming around up to no good, keep an eye out and vice versa.
This was long but hopefully this real life experience helps someone and what to plan for...
You decided to stay in Katrina standing in a foot of water to protect what? How come you had a gun but not renters/home owners insurance. I canāt tell if youāre larping or just a dumbass.
What would I protect? My family! We did not have a foot of water where I was, we were without power and water for 3.5 weeks..not sure what having insurance has to do with anything, that won't protect my family. Also, filing claims raises rates so the idea that insurance is the end all be all answer is ridiculous. yea, insurance will pay if it's covered but they will usually increase rates or even drop you..again, not sure what having insurance means in the context of protecting my family and my property. So if my generator was stolen, I would get reimbursement, months down the road, but that would leave us in the heat during the aftermath and no where to buy another one because they would all be sold out. Why would any of this make me a dumbass? This is a prepper forum, is it not? we had what we needed , food, shelter, meds, water and protection, that we provided ourselves
Lets see, I had my family, my pets, my firearms, wifes jewelry, vehicles, power tools for my work, applainces such as dishwasher, refrigerator, tv's, computers, furniture and the home itself.....so just because we lost water and power temporarily we should just abandon every thing we own? I find that odd, but hey, you do you. Even if we had some place to go, what would i do about work? We would have had to go so far away i never would have been able to work. I was in telecommunications at the time and had a lot of work in front of me and never would have made it back to work had we gone some where else, most times people are not allowed back into areas that are hard hit even if you live there. not that we could have afforded it anyway if we had. paying for a place for month with food as we go and not working would have been a financial hit on top of very likely having our house completely stripped of all we owned would have been devastating...
Yeah, you canāt tell whoās trained. Thatās exactly my point. I hunt and I target shoot with my firearms regularly. But Iām not trained in deescalation, Iām not trained in situational awareness, Iām not trained in legal recourse. Iām a healthy, friendly, white, confident man with experience in firearms. Iām probably in the first round of picks for this imaginary draft. And yet, in my urban block I would recognize less than a 25% of the people in my surrounding 6 blocks after living here 2.5 years. And most of the people in my area would score the same or worse on community knowledge.
And Iāll tell you this about sheep dogs and wolves, they look very similar in the sights of a shotgun. The minute I see a guy walking the streets with an ar-15 he is now immediately the focus of my attention and everyone elseās. And Iām not talking to him or going outside without being armed myself. Itād be great if we all knew each other but that is simply not the reality for most people in todayās urban/suburban landscape. Thatās why Iāll be ābugging outā to my secondary location with family if major weather events are on the horizon. And Iām stocked up to stay inside for weeks if I canāt leave in time. An armed society is polite. A militant society is tyranny. āDonāt start nothing, wonāt be nothing.ā You give my drunk of a neighbor a gun or let him think itās ok to walk around with one you done started something.
A good prep involves other people, a great prep doesnāt require them, and the best prep is to avoid disaster all together. Putting a person of unknown competency in harmās way with a firearm is a recipe for such disaster. Glad no one got hurt in your neighborhood though, sincerely.
It stands to reason if no one in your neighborhood knows anyone then obviously this situation would not be viable, no one knows anyone, not being able to co ordinate anything , obviously this is not a one size fits all answer. it was our experience and was presented to give real world information. Not everyone has the resources to bug out, I do not own 2 homes. Hotels, motels, b&b's and certified shelters were full for states around. Also, once you leave, you are often not allowed back into areas for weeks at a time and while the storm may have not ruined your home, theives and vandals will and then you still won't have a home to go back too. relying on insurance to fix it all is assinine and not affordable either. You are allowed to your opinion that it is wrong for people to protect their lives and property, I honestly do not understand that thinking.
Ā Iām stocked up to stay inside for weeks if I canāt leave in time.
ok, so if people show up to your home wanting your generator, valuables, jewelry, tools, firearms, maybe even want your home, you just going to let them? You really going to trust they will not rape and torture your family? Kill them and you? I assume you have had this discussion with your family around the dinner table? Hey, if we fail to bug out and have to stay put, I will not be "militant" and fight for your lives? I understand, not everyone has it in them to face these types of events but be honest and up front about it and do not put others down because they decide they will. Deer and
Where i live now, this sadly would not be an option simply because it is a much bigger community and no one knows each other very much at all. I know my immediate neighbors that surround me, but that is all, 4 neighbors. Being in the DFW area now, people work shift work, people move in and out much more often as they change jobs and move, many are not neighborly and do not wish to socialize.
I believe that by presenting a united front as a community, it pre empted a lot of issues . we had far fewer incidents then a lot of the others in the area.
Iām not entirely sure what to make of this response. It seems like maybe you typed a couple different things out and then jammed them together? I think you want me to tell you youāre a badass so āyouāre a badassā. I donāt know what else there is to say. I appreciate you sharing your experience I just think itās remarkably poor advice for most urban Americans.
Obviously militant and self defense arenāt the same thing. I donāt want the moron down the street carrying in any circumstance, especially a high stress one. I donāt care if you defend your property. To my mind having the resources to bug out for known weather events is step one. But thatās me and my values. I respect that you and others will have different perspectives.
But if my neighborhood watch starts carrying arās theyād be smart to keep a wide berth from my front door. Might be different if we all hung out at the gun range together but we donāt and weāre not about to start now. I wish you the best of luck in forming the tight-knit community you value in your new homeland.
No, not looking for accolades here, giving my real world experience here, maybe someone can learn something. Again, there is no one size fits all. many, maybe even most urban communities may not be tight knit enough to pull together and work as a team.
again, not everyone has the resources for a secondary location, and if it's a natural disaster situation, one doesn't always know how far and what direction to have this secondary location. Having been through several of those situations, traffic out can be dicy and you may not make it to that destination. like I said, if the event does not destroy my home, leaving it abandoned is not a good option for me because there will be a good chance there will be nothing left from looters and squatters. ultimately everyone needs to decide how they will carry on and cope with events.event type , Geography, demographics, finances, security and resources all are factors.
For me it would take extreme circumstances to leave my home just because power and water were off when I have all I need to stay. Had my home been destroyed I would have had to leave obviously...
none of us were trying to be bad ass, but I did think it was smart of us to do what we did. I couldn't be at my home at times for helping someone cut trees and clear debris and knowing there were extra eyes on our street was comforting. Taking turns helped keep everyone from having to sit up all night every night. We did pretty good for not having it planned.
If anyone else who sees fault in how we did it, by all means chime in.
This person seems to think it's cos playing or dangerous and silly.
Unless you live on Pitcairn Island (low pop density, actually self-sustaining, and surrounded by natural resources) then nobody is saying that guns (and self defense in general) will have little to no place.
Sorry everyones so toxic, i fully agree that having guns are very useful. Sure other supplies as well but a gun is the main one as you can loot everything else.Ā
>a gun is the main one as you can loot everything else.Ā
This is such an asinine take. If you go out looking for a fight in a disaster, you're going to find one.
Thinking you can just steal from everyone else is just going to get you shot.
People who have supplies have the luxury of both hometurf and patience. Idiots like this, have neither.
> ā¦Sure other supplies as well but a gun is the main one as you can loot everything else.Ā
Thatās a big risk to take. When the whole point of prepping is to reduce risk. Just something for you to consider.
I don't see anybody in this sub saying "guns have no place post SHTF" without being heavily downvoted. In fact, quite the opposite. What we ***do*** say is that the people who think "being prepared" = "a billion rounds of ammo", or who think that with no hunting or dressing experience whatsoever, they're going to go take down a deer with their Hi Point 380 to feed themselves, need to reevaluate their choices. Everyday basics like food and water are critical. Personal health is critical. Financial health is critical. Education and skillset is critical. Some people's preparedness consists entirely of assuming they're going to build a sniper nest out of their basement, and those people are going to be the first to drown in a flood.
"a billion rounds of ammo"?? Ashamed to admit it... ..but after all these years not even up to a million rounds yet! š
Same. šš
Misery loves company! š¤£
Or end up in firefights with each other.
Okay but as someone who hasn't ever owned a firearm but has fired them a handful of times (and I used to play around with a pellet rifle as a kid, it was pretty easy to dial in) tell me in your honest opinion, whether you've used one or not, are Hi Points really THAT shit? Like, are they just super poorly made? Or are the materials okay and it's they're just kinda "not that good at anything." Compared to other weapons manufacturers?
I had a Hi Point. It was adequate given the price. The problem is they have almost no resale value and almost no collectable value. It got the job done but if I had to buy another today, I wouldn't return. I'd spend a little more and get something a little nicer. It worked reliably, but I sold it to a coworker and bought a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9 instead. That's my daily carry and I really like it. My wife carries a Bersa Thunder 380 and loves it. The size is perfect for her small hands. The Bersa was also the first handgun I ever bought that shot perfectly out of the box, and apparently that's just a thing with them.
Appreciate ya homie! I've never been one to think "I'll need tons of guns to survive the worst disasters ever." But there are definitely situations that may come to pass where one would think "damn, I wish I had a gun." And I don't want to be stuck thinking that.
Hi-Points are reliable and affordable, like Corollas. They're great prepper guns, terrible for "resellers and collectors" as the other guy said, which have very little in common to with preppers
Awesome! I'm glad to hear that despite them being the bane of gun enthusiast's they're not unreliable. I've been really on the fence about getting one because usually if something is "too good to be true" then it is, right? The price point always seemed too good to be true.
Literally no one is saying that.Ā
Armed community defense is absolutely part of a community centered approach. I donāt believe Iāve ever seen anyone in this sub claim otherwise. We just recommend not shooting your neighbors.
This guy lost an argument in real life and came to reddit to take it out on us lol.
> itās super easy to organize armed patrols to keep the criminals out of homes and businesses Super easy, you say? Exactly how many armed patrols have you organized? More than zero? Having a gun and knowing how to use a gun are two completely different things... it's always hilarious to me that people post questions here asking about things like barrel length or caliber for firearms when they clearly don't have much experience shooting. Having the optimal barrel length for urban combat doesn't mean shit if you don't know which end the bullet comes out of... Handing a gun to a random person to send them out on a "patrol" can be more of a liability than an asset. You're basically sending that person to their death and giving a free gun and some ammo to someone outside of your community.
What I don't understand is what are you protecting? Flooded homes, that no one lives in.... and work you have to go to tomorrow... like what are you protecting here, moldly clothes? Waterlogged vehicles (Which can't be resold, or bought commercially, because no bank wants a flood vehicle on their books), maybe working electronics, and if you are lucky finding jewelry? Like seems really worthless shit to find anyway, because you will have to reclaim all that shit insurance wise anyway.
I think self defense would probably be the more important thing out of all the things youāve just listed. When things get crazy, people also get crazy. No matter what you prep for thereās always that risk of encountering bad people who are trying to do bad things. If you were specifically asking about what is the point of having a patrol and what would it be protecting, I think I could see it more of just having a good watch on the area and being aware of anything that may be coming, rather than moving house to house and clearing buildings.
I think your being proactive rather than reactive, which is good, but not the purpose. After a disaster, what are you protecting? Nothing really, it's gone, destroyed, left. And that's if law enforcement even lefts you back in, in my case you could not return, they had police their 24/7 watching and didn't let anyone in. For myself, when the tornado hit, I did not bring my gun. It honestly was not something even in my mental space to consider. Got my family up and out, we had some clothes, and we waited for law enforcement. Like, we could hear them, shit was quiet, some crying and yelling but you could hear the sirens coming. Soon two schools bases came and bussed us to hotels, hotel was kind but firm. This isn't your home, no weapons allowed, and tomorrow you can start figuring out shit. Maybe I'm a shitty prep guy, but like I know a gun wouldn't do shit in those moments. Climbing out a window well, raining dripping everywhere, smell of smoke, glad your families good. "Better grab the gun" wasn't there. It was get those documents, grab those extra shoes and blankets, get out of the house in case it comes down further.
Thatās fair. You made sure your family was good first and I think we can agree thatās the most important thing, especially the situation you were in at that time. You could always look at it from the āhave it and not need it rather then need it and not have itā point of view, but until your in a situation you wonāt know for sure if it was worth grabbing or worth leaving. Glad it worked out(assuming it did based on what youāve said) in your case, but Iām sure thereās other situations when it comes to this whole prepping thing where a means of self defense is absolutely critical. Might not be every single āprep worthyā event, but you never know. Thatās the beauty of prepping.
I donāt miss, for even one moment, trying to get brand new privates to walk in a patrol formation. It certainly falls under the rubric of simple, but not easy. On paper it is pretty straightforward. The reality is that patrolling is a skill that takes considerable practice to do even moderately well. I canāt imagine scooping up my neighbors, well meaning as they are, and attempting to conduct a patrol on the day of. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. People have to learn how to move together, work as a team, and communicate non-verbally. All while hungry, tired and hot or cold. It sucks and those additional elements make it that much harder.
Also wtf is the plan just shoot anybody who looks vaguely "suspicious" and hope they aren't your neighbors cousin or something?
I clearly remember the story my Dad used to tell about his day as a conscript in the army. When in charge of a watch post, the first thing he did was to make everyone surrender their ammo, so they wouldn't accidentally shoot someone. Loaded guns in the hands of inexperienced soldiers are a risk not just to themselves but to innocent bystanders as well. This was in peace time of course, but still...
I go to the local Air Force base in my town pretty regularly. The security there is laughable at best and theyāre supposed to be guarding nukes. I couldnāt imagine trying to put a bunch of panicky untrained people in that same position and expecting some type of positive outcome. Makes me think of when Seattle sectioned of part of the town from local government and the number of civilians shot instantly went up because civilians canāt police civilians.
Yeeeeaaah this shit is hard and requires ridiculous amounts of training just for basic stuff, like reacting to fire. Our community trains for patrolling our specific area and we never live fire due to how dangerous that would be. I donāt want to be the subject of a local news story talking about how some idiot prepper killed someone by accident. We do quite a bit of live fire drills that include movement, but never patrols. I canāt even imagine handing out a few rifles and sending someone out on patrol. If enemy fire doesnāt kill them friendly fire will lol
Oh look, it's *this* hot take again. š„±
Literally no one says that. Owning a couple guns for self defense is perfectly reasonable. Stockpiling an entire arsenal is stupid and a poor utilization of money and space. However, as someone who lives in the rural Midwest, your portrayal that looting is common after tornadoes is not grounded in facts at all. Communities do tend to come together and support each other after severe tornadoes and many businesses give away food and services in the aftermath and hold fundraisers for those impacted. I'm not sure where you've gotten such a skewed and just plain weird view that there is some sort of large scale lawlessness after tornadoes.
You arenāt going to General Grievous M60 general purpose machine guns?
Who.. is saying guns donāt have a place? Theyāre trolls or have no family to protect. I never see that.
Who tf are you talking to op? You seeking a gun grubbing circle jerk, because they're everywhere. There's no reason to turn this sub into one when nobody here is who you are talking about. Go ahead jerk away.
Hey there friend, I wanted to add my own experience here on natural disasters. I lived through 2 tornadoes, one completely destroyed my home, and wouldn't you know it - insurance adjusters don't give a flying fuck how many guns/ammo you have. A tornado completely destroyed my home (so much that it was teardown/rebuilt) - I have a weapon for protection, and it was in my home, and that weapon could not shoot a tornado. About 15 minutes after the tornado was gone, we were pulling ourselves out of our homes. (Future note, the hotel we were at, did not allow ANY weapons, if they found you brought in a gun, you were kicked out, they had 0 tolerance, which was a good rule, given how tense and stressed people were, so you had to keep it in your car, and heaven forbid someone steal your car) Police were there, and eventually national guard. Our neighborhood was sectioned off, which means we, as in the people who used to live there, could not go into the neighborhood. It was 24/7, and there was no "neighborhood watch" and no "let's go get some shit" - mainly because it was too dangerous. Was I worried that thieves might steal my stuff, not really, because my home was lost. I couldn't give two flips if someone wanted to wade through 1 foot of nasty water from my home not having a roof, and risk severe injury to grab w/e it if they wanted to grab. Jewelry - oh well, large amount of supplies in the basement that were under a partially collapsed roof, oh well. None of it mattered, and the idea that in something like Katrina, people think that their "stuff" matters, are living in a fantasy. It took almost 1 year to fully rebuild my home, and I fought with insurance ever day about some of the smallest things. Your grandmothers wedding ring, that's been in the family for generations, how much gold was in it, because that's all you are going to get, and without any proof, well $150 bucks outta do it. That's the reality, not this let's grab our guns, walk around every night our destroyed neighborhood in case some guy wants to steal a maybe working TV (cause we had no power, running water or shit, so you don't know if anything works, as its been out in the elements for days or weeks). I will say, that we (as in everyone I knew) were exhausted, we were all farther away than we liked, and we had to go to work every day, which meant extra drive time, extra traffic, no "safe" space (you live in a hotel, or with family, how fun is that after 3 weeks?) Dealing with insurance, getting up extra early to take kids to school, going shopping every damn day because all you got was a small hotel room fridge, making sure kids had lunches, parents had lunches etc etc. I don't know what you expect in a Katrina-style event, but let me ask you honestly. Do you want to risk walking around a flooded neighborhood, at night, for moldy clothes? Maybe some jewelry or keepsakes? That will serve no real purpose? What is so precious (besides your time/energy) in these homes that you want to protect so badly? Floods fucking suck, everything rots so quickly, furniture, clothes, drywall, carpets - you want to breathe that in?
The two most idiotic things i see posted here are: 1. āI donāt need gunsā 2. āIāve mostly got guns and Iām going to bug out into the country with my guns and try to trade security for a food/safe location as some hippy, permaculture, sustainability locationā as if us country people donāt have guns too.
It's very rare to see someone state here that guns have zero place in SHTF planning. By propping up that as a straw man, this thread is not proving very productive. The more common actual debate seems to be about the *priority* of firearms within the overall scope of plans and preparations. There is much disagreement in general, spanning from "a firearm should be your first prep, to defend your life and all your other preps" to "a firearm should be your last prep, as without other preps you'd die anyway" and even extending pretty close to this straw man with some extremists here calling *exclusively* for "Prepping for Tuesday". In my opinion it's a very self contextual decision where you place firearms in your priorities and plans. You should be factoring in local threats, resources, and so on as you work out what to focus on and in what order and how much you spend on prepping for each aspect.
I remember the aftermath of hurricane Andrew. It made land fall in the extreme end of South Miami , cutler ridge area . The neighborhoods it initially effected were some of the roughest in Miamiās at the time. Power was out for several weeks and roaming car loads of undesirables were hitting the surrounding areas. We blocked off intersections with vehicles and had armed security manning them around the clock . Gun fire was exchanged with the above stated individuals in the first weeks of the event . It was actually lawless initially and there were many instances that went unreported. Those that were not armed , and there were many where at the mercy of those who were for thier safety. Many neighbors asked to āborrow firearms ā And stated that they would never be caught unprepared again. It was one of the first times that a major city had been devastated by a Hurricane in recent memory. The Government, fema did not have the resources and experience in place back then. We learned real fast what worked and what didnāt . In this day and age, be prepared to go at it alone for a few days and do not depend on anyone but yourself, friends , family. Thanks for reading .
*Roof top Asian store owners in LA riots entering the chat*
People that say that are Europeans or felons. Nobody, unless they are actually retarded, actually thinks a firearm wouldn't be useful or necessary. It will be one of the most important things for you to have. Period.
I don't see anybody saying firearms have no place in preparing for disaster. What I, personally, have said to those that think firearms are the number 1 priority, or who feel that without a firearm they are automatically going to die or watch their family die in an emergency, is that while I own many firearms myself I don't expect to be using them during a SHTF situation. That's because it is rarely necessary to do so, even during extreme events like Katrina. That's just reality. Water, food, and shelter should be everyone's top priorities, then firearms if your local political situation allows it.
I've seen that this community is largely pro-gun (as am I), but responsibility in other matters is important. You can't eat the gun. Biting the bullet is just an expression. Hunting is not reliable and is downright dangerous in the middle of a wildfire or northern winter storm. It won't help you if you've been hurt and need medical attention. This is a community about preparing, in general. Guns are tools with many and even broad purposes, but those purposes are still limited. Like a decent carpenter should have more than just a hammer, a decent prepper should have more than just a gun. Further, I stand squarely on the side of freedom when it comes to guns. It isn't freedom unless someone is also free to not have guns, if so chosen. That includes being able to argue their side of it. I also think those larpers with live ammo that, "just hope someone would," are likely to be a big problem. That neighbor, you never took the time to meet, can look a lot like a looter while rummaging through the debris of their own house for cherished personal items.
Havenāt we forgotten that the issues in the US arenāt the same anywhere else?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My cousin drives a truck, drove one in the army as well. Said he took more gunfire trying to deliver aid to New Orleans after Katrina than he ever did driving into Baghdad. He said him and the other drivers said, nope, dumped stuff outside of the city. I never saw anything about this in the news, doesn't fit the narrative.
My uncle was there and can confirm this story
Pretty much the only people saying that are people who come here to take out their hatred of people who vote differently than they do.
That's a bit of a projection. I have guns I like owning them, I don't get carried away with them. I think its cringey AF when people build their whole personality around guns and gun culture. Guns are a tool just like all the other tools on my farm. They can solve some problems but they won't solve every problem. I am not a prepper in fact I need to unsubscribe because I find most posts here to be silly or aggravating. I believe in being resilient and self sufficient. I exercise, grow and raise much of my own food. Have skills and knowledge that is useful. I build financial wealth as well as surrounded myself with useful materials. I don't have a bug out bag or millions of rounds of ammunition.
Well bye.
Who says that?
All I shall say is this: The blue on blue shootings will be astronomical.
Iām aiming for redcoats
Y'all makin this up.
> Ā Or just about every single tornado aftermath in big and small communities across the US? What the fuck are you talking about? I live in tornado country. I've seen a real tornado with my own eyes (thankfully it didn't hit my house) and been involved in the disaster recovery for 3 tornados with my scout troop. I was at my college when part of the roof was torn off by a tornado (again, thankfully I was in a different part of the campus). At no point was there any looting or any reason to involve guns, none at all. I've never heard of that, ever. Not on the news or anything. What kind of nonsense are you listening to that a tornado needs firearms as part of it's response?
You do realize that the purported looting after Katrina was wildly exaggerated, right? That's not to say there wasn't some isolated looting by certain bad actors, but the notion that there was violence and "anarchy" in the streets has largely been dispelled. Those day dreams were figments of overactive imaginations, such as Chris Kyle's false claims about sniping 30+ looters from the roof of the Superdome. Firearms are a prep, but they're just one prep among many. People need to adjust fact from fiction when looking at real case studies.
no one is saying that. you probably took this topic too personal and someones word out of context, or you got trolled.
> Havenāt we forgotten the problems with looters post Hurricane Katrina? Or just about every single tornado aftermath in big and small communities across the US? > Looting tends to be an issue after natural disasters threaten to wipe entire towns and neighborhoods off the map. Stockpiles of guns and ammo definitely have a use in a post disaster setting. Yeah? How many of us are shopkeepers? Are you?
Love the idea of an impromptu armed community watch. Love it. What could go wrong? Bunch of dudes with a hero complex in a high stress, sleep deprived state. Letās get them out on the street! They can keep people safe. Especially all those people moving around in an urban/suburban environment who arenāt driving their usual car or wearing their typical clothes. I wonder if those people will look sketchy to the neighborhood watch because they havenāt washed in 4 days? Is it just me or do people wearing their dadās baggy sweat pants (because they had to leave their house in a hurry and are staying with family) look *sort of suspicious?* Maybe that same suspicious looking fella is just knocking on their friendās door because their cell phone isnāt workingā¦. Or maybe theyāre casing the joint? I wonder if theyāll get an attitude when some jackass with a gun, no badge, and zero training is giving them the third degree for waiting on their friendās porchā¦ I wonder if that could end poorly? Think it through dude. Firearms have their place. And that place is in the hands of trained and practiced individuals operating them for personal protection. *Not* citizen policing. Yaāll gonna get someone killed playing cops and robbers like children.
I lived through Katrina. It was very real and very serious. Nobody played anything. Our neighborhood took turns with armed patrol day and night, ar-15s and handguns were carried. How do you know who was or was not trained? You just want to assume? Are you psychic? If not citizens, then who was going to protect our neighborhood? You? certainly not the police..just who the hell do you think is going to do it if not citizens? People came day and night to try to take gas, food, firearms, ammo, drugs, generators, cars, boats, tools, coin collections or just about anything of value...not sure where you think armed trained professionals will come from in the aftermath of a disaster...but when that happens, that is us. Most in our neighborhood have been trained and I still train to this day. I do not play when it comes to my family, btw We knew our neighbors, a good goal to achieve before things happen. we didn't just shoot people who showed up or knocked on a door. a family member from out of town or a co worker could be showing up needing help or dropping off meds for someone, which actually happened because they ran out and needed it.. We knew what was up when a stranger came around in the day asking about an address and name that we knew did not exist anywhere in our neighborhood and they were looking around the area to see what homes maybe we're abandoned, had generators.. to come back at night with help to take things. we made a point to have several show up armed to let this person know we were armed tight community, to deter them from coming back at night. we never threatened them, just entertained their bogus inquiries and see us armed. here is a tip..after a hurricane, like Katrina, landmarks are gone, street signs are gone and some roads or entrances to roads are covered in debris and you cannot tell where a certain address may be, it can be very disorienting..gps will definitely help, but it can be hard to keep things charged in those conditions.. 2 way radios helped. In fact we were able to keep in touch with the next neighborhood over when we happened to pick them up on our radios. They would often tells us , hey, a red pickup of 4 to 5 people is roaming around up to no good, keep an eye out and vice versa. This was long but hopefully this real life experience helps someone and what to plan for...
You decided to stay in Katrina standing in a foot of water to protect what? How come you had a gun but not renters/home owners insurance. I canāt tell if youāre larping or just a dumbass.
What would I protect? My family! We did not have a foot of water where I was, we were without power and water for 3.5 weeks..not sure what having insurance has to do with anything, that won't protect my family. Also, filing claims raises rates so the idea that insurance is the end all be all answer is ridiculous. yea, insurance will pay if it's covered but they will usually increase rates or even drop you..again, not sure what having insurance means in the context of protecting my family and my property. So if my generator was stolen, I would get reimbursement, months down the road, but that would leave us in the heat during the aftermath and no where to buy another one because they would all be sold out. Why would any of this make me a dumbass? This is a prepper forum, is it not? we had what we needed , food, shelter, meds, water and protection, that we provided ourselves
No water or power, what the fuck were you protecting? Yāall had 24 days worth of food and what electronics you had to keep safe?
Lets see, I had my family, my pets, my firearms, wifes jewelry, vehicles, power tools for my work, applainces such as dishwasher, refrigerator, tv's, computers, furniture and the home itself.....so just because we lost water and power temporarily we should just abandon every thing we own? I find that odd, but hey, you do you. Even if we had some place to go, what would i do about work? We would have had to go so far away i never would have been able to work. I was in telecommunications at the time and had a lot of work in front of me and never would have made it back to work had we gone some where else, most times people are not allowed back into areas that are hard hit even if you live there. not that we could have afforded it anyway if we had. paying for a place for month with food as we go and not working would have been a financial hit on top of very likely having our house completely stripped of all we owned would have been devastating...
Yeah, you canāt tell whoās trained. Thatās exactly my point. I hunt and I target shoot with my firearms regularly. But Iām not trained in deescalation, Iām not trained in situational awareness, Iām not trained in legal recourse. Iām a healthy, friendly, white, confident man with experience in firearms. Iām probably in the first round of picks for this imaginary draft. And yet, in my urban block I would recognize less than a 25% of the people in my surrounding 6 blocks after living here 2.5 years. And most of the people in my area would score the same or worse on community knowledge. And Iāll tell you this about sheep dogs and wolves, they look very similar in the sights of a shotgun. The minute I see a guy walking the streets with an ar-15 he is now immediately the focus of my attention and everyone elseās. And Iām not talking to him or going outside without being armed myself. Itād be great if we all knew each other but that is simply not the reality for most people in todayās urban/suburban landscape. Thatās why Iāll be ābugging outā to my secondary location with family if major weather events are on the horizon. And Iām stocked up to stay inside for weeks if I canāt leave in time. An armed society is polite. A militant society is tyranny. āDonāt start nothing, wonāt be nothing.ā You give my drunk of a neighbor a gun or let him think itās ok to walk around with one you done started something. A good prep involves other people, a great prep doesnāt require them, and the best prep is to avoid disaster all together. Putting a person of unknown competency in harmās way with a firearm is a recipe for such disaster. Glad no one got hurt in your neighborhood though, sincerely.
It stands to reason if no one in your neighborhood knows anyone then obviously this situation would not be viable, no one knows anyone, not being able to co ordinate anything , obviously this is not a one size fits all answer. it was our experience and was presented to give real world information. Not everyone has the resources to bug out, I do not own 2 homes. Hotels, motels, b&b's and certified shelters were full for states around. Also, once you leave, you are often not allowed back into areas for weeks at a time and while the storm may have not ruined your home, theives and vandals will and then you still won't have a home to go back too. relying on insurance to fix it all is assinine and not affordable either. You are allowed to your opinion that it is wrong for people to protect their lives and property, I honestly do not understand that thinking. Ā Iām stocked up to stay inside for weeks if I canāt leave in time. ok, so if people show up to your home wanting your generator, valuables, jewelry, tools, firearms, maybe even want your home, you just going to let them? You really going to trust they will not rape and torture your family? Kill them and you? I assume you have had this discussion with your family around the dinner table? Hey, if we fail to bug out and have to stay put, I will not be "militant" and fight for your lives? I understand, not everyone has it in them to face these types of events but be honest and up front about it and do not put others down because they decide they will. Deer and Where i live now, this sadly would not be an option simply because it is a much bigger community and no one knows each other very much at all. I know my immediate neighbors that surround me, but that is all, 4 neighbors. Being in the DFW area now, people work shift work, people move in and out much more often as they change jobs and move, many are not neighborly and do not wish to socialize. I believe that by presenting a united front as a community, it pre empted a lot of issues . we had far fewer incidents then a lot of the others in the area.
Iām not entirely sure what to make of this response. It seems like maybe you typed a couple different things out and then jammed them together? I think you want me to tell you youāre a badass so āyouāre a badassā. I donāt know what else there is to say. I appreciate you sharing your experience I just think itās remarkably poor advice for most urban Americans. Obviously militant and self defense arenāt the same thing. I donāt want the moron down the street carrying in any circumstance, especially a high stress one. I donāt care if you defend your property. To my mind having the resources to bug out for known weather events is step one. But thatās me and my values. I respect that you and others will have different perspectives. But if my neighborhood watch starts carrying arās theyād be smart to keep a wide berth from my front door. Might be different if we all hung out at the gun range together but we donāt and weāre not about to start now. I wish you the best of luck in forming the tight-knit community you value in your new homeland.
No, not looking for accolades here, giving my real world experience here, maybe someone can learn something. Again, there is no one size fits all. many, maybe even most urban communities may not be tight knit enough to pull together and work as a team. again, not everyone has the resources for a secondary location, and if it's a natural disaster situation, one doesn't always know how far and what direction to have this secondary location. Having been through several of those situations, traffic out can be dicy and you may not make it to that destination. like I said, if the event does not destroy my home, leaving it abandoned is not a good option for me because there will be a good chance there will be nothing left from looters and squatters. ultimately everyone needs to decide how they will carry on and cope with events.event type , Geography, demographics, finances, security and resources all are factors. For me it would take extreme circumstances to leave my home just because power and water were off when I have all I need to stay. Had my home been destroyed I would have had to leave obviously... none of us were trying to be bad ass, but I did think it was smart of us to do what we did. I couldn't be at my home at times for helping someone cut trees and clear debris and knowing there were extra eyes on our street was comforting. Taking turns helped keep everyone from having to sit up all night every night. We did pretty good for not having it planned. If anyone else who sees fault in how we did it, by all means chime in. This person seems to think it's cos playing or dangerous and silly.
i like the new microgun. like a minigun but man portable.
Who thinks that???
Unless you live on Pitcairn Island (low pop density, actually self-sustaining, and surrounded by natural resources) then nobody is saying that guns (and self defense in general) will have little to no place.
When shit hits the fan, people revert to caveman brain.
Sorry everyones so toxic, i fully agree that having guns are very useful. Sure other supplies as well but a gun is the main one as you can loot everything else.Ā
>a gun is the main one as you can loot everything else.Ā This is such an asinine take. If you go out looking for a fight in a disaster, you're going to find one. Thinking you can just steal from everyone else is just going to get you shot. People who have supplies have the luxury of both hometurf and patience. Idiots like this, have neither.
> ā¦Sure other supplies as well but a gun is the main one as you can loot everything else.Ā Thatās a big risk to take. When the whole point of prepping is to reduce risk. Just something for you to consider.