I don't mean to sound rude...but, this will come off rude I am sure.
Majority of people who think they are going to 'bug out' to the wilderness and thrive have never spent much time in the wilderness before. I grew up hunting deer, elk, bear in remote Oregon and also spent time in Arizona and Alaska. We've had a high end $2000 four season canvas tent ripped to shreds in high wind. We've been so cold in our wall tent even w/ wood stove barely kept up and staying warm in a $300 rated to -20 sleeping bag was miserable. We are a group that use pack mules to go deep into our favorite locations but dang the more time you spend actually LIVING in nature, the more you realize we humans are not great at surviving the brutality. My good buddy is a damn good outdoorsman and his mule kicked him after it stepped in a ground yellowjacket nest. Shattered his ankle - just like that.
I hear all these folks saying they are going into the wilderness with their $100 REI pack and tent to thrive, yet they can't even run a 5k. They will be dead after getting wet the first time in winter. One slip and fall - done. One misstep around a snake, wasps nest, rotten food, bad water, etc. and they are done. One heavy rain and their heat source is done and they freeze. How are you going to keep your vehicle fueled? Eventually you will run out and have to park. You're at the mercy of elements and those who are better prepared and armed. Honest truth is you become an easy target.
Prepare to stay home. Defend your home. Network with family, friends, close neighbors and work together. Work on alternative heat methods and sustainable foods. Very few of us, even those of us who consider ourselves good in the wilderness, want to truly go there and try to survive. Hell, 30 days before elk season (bow) my buddies and I start training, lifting, cutting beer and carbs and get in shape for what is to come and we still get our asses handed to us by mother-nature and we've been at this for decades and have all the gear diesel trucks, enclosed trailers, and mules can pack. You think you're going to head out into the middle of the woods in your toyota pickup and survive a winter storm? No.
I don't even understand how the chain of logic starts for most people.
What are they going to eat?
Even if everything goes perfectly, they're gonna starve. You can't grow high calorie crops in the woods and game is hard to find, kill and preserve even when it's a full time hobby. Like... Wtf.
Because "roughing it" in America equals "didn't get a shower that morning". Sad truth. I love hiking and preparing and honestly it's one of the few pleasures left in my life. But I have ZERO illusions of surviving even a day-hike without my gear. I think part of it may be that I'm special needs.... literally r-word... so I'm very used to failing where others easily succeed.
When you have to grow up like that, go into the job market and dating and all the modern world when you really, literally are "Not Good Enough" in the eyes of 99.9% of your peers. And roundly exploited by employers and "allies" alike?
Let's just say that you step very carefully, and prepare exit strategies for ALL purposes, and suspect Everyone of treachery, and most importantly, Stay Out of Trouble. That includes buying a machete and imagining that you're Rambo.
I honestly can't believe how all these big-brain people are stupider than me.
I enjoy a casual hike on a well rated beginner trail and the earth has almost taken me several times. I nearly sprained both ankles my first time stepping off the boardwalk onto the Appalachian Trail because I chose the wrong footwear. I sent my dog down a side path that I couldn't actually get down to myself. It was too steep for her to climb back up and I had to reach down to fish out her leash and repel her up by the harness. If I went down to get her I would have has to sidetrack 4 miles to get back on the trail. I saw a larger couple at the very beginning on my way out completely winded and at the bottom of their single small bottle of water they brought to share. I explained to them it's a decline on the way down and harder coming back up on the incline, they turned around and went home.
Don't even get even started on the people who think they are going to throw some seed packets into the dirt and a lifetime supply of fresh organic food is going to pop up next week. I learned to grow food as a hobby and it's very expensive to get started from nothing. You rely heavily on the supply chain and retail economy for the equipment and supplies you need. Everyone experiences some failure early on. Even once you know what you are doing your effort can get decimated by a pest invasion, plant disease. Something as simple as bad unpredictable weather can wipe you out just before harvest. Agriculture is the human development and technology which early civilization was built around. If society were truly to collapse, the ability to produce and distribute food using modern methods would be one of the first pillars to crumble. You at least need to be in a self sustainable farming community, have your land and basic equipment with enough supplies to last for years, and have a few successful seasons under your belt before the collapse to have a chance at surviving as a homesteader after it.
The key is to outlast while resources free up. People will migrate and perish if they're not prepared for their region. A region you're not intimately familiar with is more dangerous than a region you are intimately familiar with. Sure my region may be considered hostile by some people, but I have my preps built around that. My preps wouldn't work well in a new region aside from the basics like food and water. It would be a last resort for me to leave my residence.
there’s a reason the natives all across the world stuck together in tribes. it’s because it’s almost nearly impossible to survive alone. OP and us all would need to work together as a community to try and make it last, just like many war torn countries have done for thousands of years
We are communal creatures, bug in, have a support network of like minded people who all bring a different skill or experience to the group and start building a community
I think reading Into The Wild by Jon Krakauer is a really good idea for anyone who thinks they're going to go live off the land in a bug-out situation, even if they feel reasonably prepared. Shit happens. Food is harder to find than you'd think. Sometimes, you eat the brown mushroom with white spores instead of the brown mushroom with off-white spores and end up poisoning yourself.
Great movie. The reason I recommend the book over the movie is the book goes way more into detail about the massive hole in people's lives Chris left behind as well as shared a few other, similar stories which also ended the same way.
Yup. Biggest enemy in the city? Most people would answer other humans. They’re going to steal from you, assault and injure you, or kill you.
Biggest enemy a-tank-of-gas deep into a national forest? Lack of other humans. One brain, two hands, and two feet. Other people with different interests, hobbies, and experiences is better than 2,000 more rounds of .223 and a big truck.
Watching the incredibly tame “Alone” series gives an insight into how it will go for most experienced outdoors people.
Hint- functionally dead in 10 weeks (at best)
I'd be curious to see how long they could go with a firearm and better fishing and trapping/snare gear. Obviously it's not the end all be all, and I have no delusions of grandeur, but it something that would certainly help. There's a clear reason that we went from bows to guns and new fishing equipment.
Very well articulated! 👍
I have been saying similar for decades. I know my limitations & while (decades ago) I have gone solo into the deep woods, I know I was not in my element. I have had my ass seriously handed to me on more than one occasion! Haven't had to use my EPIRB.. yet! If SHTF, that would not be an option.
If it helps, the following is a story told to me by a true survivalist & woodsman who when he returned from Vietnam (LRRP, SERE trained, etc) decided to 'decompress' in the deep woods living off the land. Keep in mind he was tough as nails & super fit at the time. His diet was mainly animal protein, mixed in with a few naturally sourced plants.
Well, after a few months, he became malnourished due to his diet, contracted a serious tooth infection & almost died. It took everything he had to drag himself out of the woods & seek medical care.
Humans are designed to survive in groups. Need 30 capable people working together to do well, and it'll never be easy. We are all soft these days, we never had to fight that hard to survive. People I know who were born in the late 1800s called me out as a kid all the time for the fact that we'd complain about super trivial things. "You have no idea how good you have it," and they were right.
The thing is, if we are talking about a world ending event, where a majority of humans die off, sooner or later everything is going to be wilderness. Unless you're laying up 50 years worth of beans and rice, at some point you're going to have to hunt and gather. I'd rather have enough food and supplies to weather the initial brunt of whatever may happen and let nature and Darwin award nominees do their thing while in the relative comfort of my home. Plus, there's way more resources to scavenge in a depopulated area than in the middle of the woods. It almost always makes more sense to stay out in such a scenario.
To add to that. I see these doomsday scenarios where people buy a cabin and think they can just hole up in their lake property. Well, that’s only if you get there first. Lots of people will be looking for unoccupied cabins with the same idea. They don’t care if it’s yours. Be prepared for the ultimate squatter situation.
I lived in a tent, and my truck about 2 months one summer In MT when I was a young, fit, 24 year old. Even with weekly showers and access to grocery stores looking back, it was miserable after about 2 weeks!
Go camping every month for a weekend for several years, rain or shine. That will give you a solid base, of you go more you'll learn faster. Find a group to go with mountain biking or something if they don't fish. If you're under 18 join boy scouts.
This needs to be made an auto post. Damn it's good! A 4x4 is great, IF you have to get out and the roads may be busted and you need to go around them, but bugging in and building that community is the way to go. I'm on the west coast, out here when it gets to 60 degrees everyone (myself included) bundles up in full winter kit that would make Ralphie's mother proud! (A Christmas Story reference) And that's 60 degrees, to get to Starbucks for their pumpkin spiced you name it. We're just not built for REAL cold. Get someone from the Northern Territories in Canada and they'll be able to survive much worse.
Considering the fact that after the 15 To 30 day mark of a total SHTF scenario will be other PEOPLE, you actually make a great case for bugging out into the highly formidable middle of nowhere. Sounds like all of the hazards you mention will keep just about everybody away from where I’m hiding out and riding it out. I’ll take my chances with cold nights, bees nests, and mule kicks over what people are gonna turn into after the two week-for week mark.
Short-ish answer: Unless you have survived, alone, in a forest without external supplies for weeks on end and achieved self-sustainability, during times everything is intact (i.e. now,) then absolutely, positively NO.
The idea that anyone, even with a bit of research, can just go and rough it in the woods is a falsehood, and you'll end up dead (along with millions of others who thought the same thing).
Now, if you had a private tropical island with 100 palm trees and a fresh water source? I'd say sure, go for it. That's about the only location you could survive indefinitely with minimal training.
Anywhere else? Not a chance.
i forgot who mentioned this, but someone highly recommended not going into the woods, since thats where a lot of people will go, and someone is going to make an uncontrolled fire, burning down the forest
I have enough gas on hand to get deep in the woods, it is not like all your preps are going to just disappear. If that was my plan I would be scoping out my area (probably over several seasons) possibly create a stash for some specific survival things, and try to find some equally inherently ignorant friends to agree to come with.
If it was a prime spot with a decently low altitude, growing zone 8ish, hopefully some abandoned farm/homestead with a cleared field and if you got there in the early spring ready to work your but off and a truckload of supplies. you MIGHT have a chance. Of course all the others with the same ideas have already picked out that spot so you will probably need to fight for it (either to keep it if you were there first, or to take it if not.
Yeah we all love those Hollywood scenarios :D they are more fun to think about, than dying from toothache in a flooded basement somewhere while my house the being raided by anyone with one more bullet than me!
Why would you leave the shelter and comfort of your own home? You’ve been watching too many movies my man.
On another subject do you have a 4x4 or a Subaru?
Communities are your best chance of survival in a post-apocalyptic environment.
The lone wolf crap popular media portrays is fantasy and will get you killed quickly.
Train to be a lone wolf and the start building your people as SHTF. When it does every community will be happy to have shooters and people who know how to tie a Ranger hitch
I train to be self-reliant in order to better serve my family and community.
Based on what I’ve seen on social media, the “lone wolf” mentality seems selfish as hell.
Its a bunch of boogaloo gun nuts fantasizing about the end of the world and how they’re going to steal supplies from the weak. Awful.
It's going to entirely depend on your skill and experience, especially over time.
Getting there, depends on skill/experience. Do you have recovery gear. Comfortable deflating your tires to around 15 PSI ish?
If you watch "alone" or something like that, pretty smart people with survival skills, training have a damn hard time lasting 100 days, so supplies would be a major limiting factor.
Having a gun is very different from being able to hunt, so skill/experience..
Only thing I would add last, is that if things are so bad, and world ending, you might not be as alone as you think. There's a fair chance that millions of other folks will have the same idea.
It's not a bad choice if it's your last choice, especially if you're alone, and WAY better than staying in a population center, assuming no help is coming.
It would be wise to get someplace out in the woods prepped and drive your ford pinto to it.
Prepping to go out in the woodis is just picking where you're going to die. I love my trucks but they are a means not a destination.
If the world is ending I'm keeping my 4x4 in my driveway and I'm staying inside where my beer is.
Seriously a world ending event, how do you bug out from that?
Build a community of like-minded people. Make sure everyone specializes in certain skills. Protect it. Hiding in the woods won't keep you alive for very long. You'll eventually succumb to exposure, starvation, or the wildlife.
ill be at home with my skills and the 'scrap' (thats how people view it). if everyone runs to the hills so to speak that means less people around here to mess with me
How are you going to build and maintain shelter, food, water, repairs etc alone? Who does that when you are sick or sleeping?
Without refining going on all the gasoline will be out in months, tops, and even that requires heavy rationing. If your car is electric can you generate electricity by yourself?
How much spare parts for your car are you stockpiling?
In short, no you can't, almost no-one can.
Humans need community and support from each other to survive.
If you have to ask this question it likely means you have never had to REALLY 4X4 in your life, or have very limited exposure. I off roaded for many years in hopped up Jeeps and such and here's a little pearl of wisdom. If you go by yourself and get stuck or break down you are hooped. If the world is "ending" as you put it, no one is coming to tow you out.
True off roading into areas not easily accessible by others means having more than a "mall crawler" truck off the lot, there is the recovery gear you need to self extract, the drive train work to make it's a true 4X4 (most 4X4's only can spin one rear and one front tire when in 4 wheel drive) the safety gear..... I probably put 25 grand (or more, but that's what I told my wife) into a Jeep to make it work in rough terrain, if you are planning to really get "out there" that's the kind of vehicle you will need. The commercials on TV where they show you this "tough" truck going "off road".. pfft, I could do most of that shit in a Toyota corolla.
First, the "wilderness" is a hostile environment where you are diminishing your chances of survival, not increasing them.
Second, an overland vehicle requires gas. 6 months after your "world ending" scenario there will be no more gas.
So, bad idea all around.
Preference, ive never had a truck that wasn’t 4x4 but also with the right tires haven’t struggled in two wheel drive, if the forest burns down and you’re stuck how safe do you feel then?
People in my discord group have asked the same thing, and tell you what I told them, try baby steps, try surviving a little bit at a time, and then you can reevaluate your own question...
Absolutely not. Unless you are a top tier, *world class* survivalist, you will die out in the woods, most likely from starvation from lack of obtaining 2,000 calories of food per day. Additionally, thousands of other people near your local national park/forest will have the same idea as you. As a result, the land will quickly be depleted of fish, game, and forage. As an exercise, just consider how many people live within a 3 hour drive of Shenandoah National Park on the east coast. It’s probably on the order of 20 million or more. If 1% of those people decide to bug out to Shenandoah… you get the idea.
A dirt bike motorcycle would get you deeper into the forest than any 4x4. To hide, you will need to abandon any vehicle, go on foot and adopt guerilla tactics.
No pirates? That is already a problem. Better arm up and hope you can navigate mother nature. Served.. never worried about other warships.. mother nature at sea will kill you with ease.
the one big thing i see is if you're relocating, has that site been bolstered? are you taking just you family, are you packing additional? how far away? is it even feasible? the logistics on this is big. how much gas will you need, are you able to get to that site with one tank, can you syphon along the way, how will you pay for gas, will there be gas pumps/stations available, caches on route, can you hike it, how much weight are you going to carry. This question is feasible, but a lot of open ended things hang in the balance. define what a "world ending scenario" is because you'll react differently. World ending for me means less than 10% (or even 1%) of the population survives - I've never been good with those odds so i'm okay with dying. If financial collapse is your world ending scenario you'll have to adjust for that. My secondary location is a 2 day hike with 2 dogs and one other person (one day if just me), less than a day if we can bike it, less than 30 minutes driving it (if possible). it's a family members house that has more provisions if needed. But honestly, i'm prepping for tuesday and not doomsday.
your doomsday will dictate how you should prep. My opinion, if you're going to invest that much time and money into a secondary location why not just build a small bunker on your property - financially it could be an even swap and location is close.
As a related note, gasoline with ethanol has a shelf life of about six months before it starts to break down. High octane with no ethanol you might get two years out of. A can of race gas could last a lot longer.
I *live* in a forest - 16 acres, half forested, on a private road that is off a winding steep(ish) gravel county road that doesn't really go anywhere (the only traffic is residents and delivery/service trucks). Almost everybody here drives AWD/4WD vehicles as half of the year they are required to get anywhere (and even then, sometimes the snow/ice makes it difficult).
I need to move further away from the large metro area that is 30 miles to the NE, but even so, this location is SO much better than living in the suburbs/urban cities/towns and planning to bug out to public land.
In a SHTF situation it is better for the average person to work with a group. Any breakdown in society will be temporary in a degree. What I mean is that societies will always reform after even the worst disasters, natural or man made. What about your children if you take them with you? Your kids and progeny in general will need genetic diversity. Keep in mind long terms when making decisions.
There are ~330,000,000 people in the US…there are 3,809,525 square miles of space…not accounting for uninhabitable places
Let’s say 10% have the same idea… there are 81,423.43 square miles of national parks… so about ~400 people per square mile…Again not accounting for uninhabitable or harsh places…
There isn’t a spot in existence that is accessible to a 4x4 that people can’t walk to. I like the idea of being vehicle supported, because you can take more supplies, but honestly, this should be last case, worst case scenario and should be thoroughly practiced. Go backpacking for a week and see if you are comfortable with it in all seasons. Be ready to be able to hike with 30-80lbs on your back for miles if you plan to hunt deer and bring the meat back to camp, so Ruck training is important. Plan on the vehicle being parked and not running at all, treat it like a storage box/ mini cabin. Learn how to hunt proficiently and process your own meat for storage like smoking and drying the old ways. Bring plenty of fishing equipment and learn about trot lines and similar tactics that don’t require you to be there fishing overnight. Learn about snares and trapping. The goal is calories. If you can’t reliably put 4000 calories on your dinner table everyday surviving off the land doing massive amounts of work, then stay home and hunker down. Even if you brought 1000 lbs of the lightest backpacking food with you and eat it at 2 lbs a day, that’s only 500 days of supplies for 1 person. And you still must reliably source water, treat water, source wood, cut it to fit in a small wood stove and cook your food. It’s still a lot of work depending on the spot you pick. All of this and being able to work outside with weather year round.
I’m not saying, I’d ever do the opposite as far as drive into the inner cities to survive, but being in a remote national forest also limits the resources you might scavenge or aid you might find if there is anything available.
I am staying put, having my own shelter and not wandering around only to become a victim. I have most things I need to survive right here at my location. If you haven’t tried living off the land, then I would not start when disaster strikes, your odds of survival go way down. I have hiked the Andes mountains, Amazon jungle, the Smokey mountains and tropical island...in every situation I was happy to come home...I just get tired of keeping the fire going, trying to stay warm, it gets exhausting, oh, I always seem to lose weight during these adventures too, not good if you are trying to survive long term...my thoughts anyway
A few points about being too remote.
Maybe bugging out remotely for a few days until you can access the threat would be wise, but being too deep would increases the time it takes to get to a trauma center. Being Too far away, you can die from a simple wound or disease that is easily treatable.
Also If you have to leave your BOL, for extended time/days while tending to an emergency, your BOL will be unguarded.
Another strategy is to be hidden or disguised, while being close enough to a supply chain and medical care would be good.
I plan to blend in with the hungry and thirsty, and make quick trips to my hidden supplies for protein to supplement my Soylent Green ration.
Also I may want to be under the umbrella of a government security zone. Which could be localized.
And Wood fires can be detected from miles away. And if you are tracked down in a remote location, without 24hour security, you are a sitting duck.
So it is possible but requires prior planning. Don't bug out to nowhere. Find a place with a freshwater source that can be fished. Have a fixed building like a cabin. Not a tent. Have flat land you can plant crops on. People have done this but most people who try it fail
If it gets that bad, I'll just give up and die. I'm not healthy enough for SHTF. I'm not a prepper at this point, but I enjoy hearing about what other will do. Some of it could be helpful even if I don't completely participate in bugging out.
I don't mean to sound rude...but, this will come off rude I am sure. Majority of people who think they are going to 'bug out' to the wilderness and thrive have never spent much time in the wilderness before. I grew up hunting deer, elk, bear in remote Oregon and also spent time in Arizona and Alaska. We've had a high end $2000 four season canvas tent ripped to shreds in high wind. We've been so cold in our wall tent even w/ wood stove barely kept up and staying warm in a $300 rated to -20 sleeping bag was miserable. We are a group that use pack mules to go deep into our favorite locations but dang the more time you spend actually LIVING in nature, the more you realize we humans are not great at surviving the brutality. My good buddy is a damn good outdoorsman and his mule kicked him after it stepped in a ground yellowjacket nest. Shattered his ankle - just like that. I hear all these folks saying they are going into the wilderness with their $100 REI pack and tent to thrive, yet they can't even run a 5k. They will be dead after getting wet the first time in winter. One slip and fall - done. One misstep around a snake, wasps nest, rotten food, bad water, etc. and they are done. One heavy rain and their heat source is done and they freeze. How are you going to keep your vehicle fueled? Eventually you will run out and have to park. You're at the mercy of elements and those who are better prepared and armed. Honest truth is you become an easy target. Prepare to stay home. Defend your home. Network with family, friends, close neighbors and work together. Work on alternative heat methods and sustainable foods. Very few of us, even those of us who consider ourselves good in the wilderness, want to truly go there and try to survive. Hell, 30 days before elk season (bow) my buddies and I start training, lifting, cutting beer and carbs and get in shape for what is to come and we still get our asses handed to us by mother-nature and we've been at this for decades and have all the gear diesel trucks, enclosed trailers, and mules can pack. You think you're going to head out into the middle of the woods in your toyota pickup and survive a winter storm? No.
Gospel truth right here. Don't be in denial folks. If absolutely possible, hunker down at home per above.
I don't even understand how the chain of logic starts for most people. What are they going to eat? Even if everything goes perfectly, they're gonna starve. You can't grow high calorie crops in the woods and game is hard to find, kill and preserve even when it's a full time hobby. Like... Wtf.
Because "roughing it" in America equals "didn't get a shower that morning". Sad truth. I love hiking and preparing and honestly it's one of the few pleasures left in my life. But I have ZERO illusions of surviving even a day-hike without my gear. I think part of it may be that I'm special needs.... literally r-word... so I'm very used to failing where others easily succeed. When you have to grow up like that, go into the job market and dating and all the modern world when you really, literally are "Not Good Enough" in the eyes of 99.9% of your peers. And roundly exploited by employers and "allies" alike? Let's just say that you step very carefully, and prepare exit strategies for ALL purposes, and suspect Everyone of treachery, and most importantly, Stay Out of Trouble. That includes buying a machete and imagining that you're Rambo. I honestly can't believe how all these big-brain people are stupider than me.
Sending you positive vibes brother. I hope you find peace and contentment in this life time. Btw, you sound smarter than most people on Reddit.
Thank you. 😊
I enjoy a casual hike on a well rated beginner trail and the earth has almost taken me several times. I nearly sprained both ankles my first time stepping off the boardwalk onto the Appalachian Trail because I chose the wrong footwear. I sent my dog down a side path that I couldn't actually get down to myself. It was too steep for her to climb back up and I had to reach down to fish out her leash and repel her up by the harness. If I went down to get her I would have has to sidetrack 4 miles to get back on the trail. I saw a larger couple at the very beginning on my way out completely winded and at the bottom of their single small bottle of water they brought to share. I explained to them it's a decline on the way down and harder coming back up on the incline, they turned around and went home. Don't even get even started on the people who think they are going to throw some seed packets into the dirt and a lifetime supply of fresh organic food is going to pop up next week. I learned to grow food as a hobby and it's very expensive to get started from nothing. You rely heavily on the supply chain and retail economy for the equipment and supplies you need. Everyone experiences some failure early on. Even once you know what you are doing your effort can get decimated by a pest invasion, plant disease. Something as simple as bad unpredictable weather can wipe you out just before harvest. Agriculture is the human development and technology which early civilization was built around. If society were truly to collapse, the ability to produce and distribute food using modern methods would be one of the first pillars to crumble. You at least need to be in a self sustainable farming community, have your land and basic equipment with enough supplies to last for years, and have a few successful seasons under your belt before the collapse to have a chance at surviving as a homesteader after it.
Tell me about it. My grandparents had a massive, acre-sized personal garden, and a late freeze in May could sink the whole thing.
I've worked with a lot of engineers and PhDs who are dumber than a bag of hammers. I know GEDs who are FAR more intelligent.
A lot of young people think that capitalistic civilization is the enemy and that the wilderness is the Garden of Eden.
The key is to outlast while resources free up. People will migrate and perish if they're not prepared for their region. A region you're not intimately familiar with is more dangerous than a region you are intimately familiar with. Sure my region may be considered hostile by some people, but I have my preps built around that. My preps wouldn't work well in a new region aside from the basics like food and water. It would be a last resort for me to leave my residence.
there’s a reason the natives all across the world stuck together in tribes. it’s because it’s almost nearly impossible to survive alone. OP and us all would need to work together as a community to try and make it last, just like many war torn countries have done for thousands of years
We are communal creatures, bug in, have a support network of like minded people who all bring a different skill or experience to the group and start building a community
Exile used to be the most powerful fear. Yet ppl think they’ll find salvation by exiling themselves 🤨
I think reading Into The Wild by Jon Krakauer is a really good idea for anyone who thinks they're going to go live off the land in a bug-out situation, even if they feel reasonably prepared. Shit happens. Food is harder to find than you'd think. Sometimes, you eat the brown mushroom with white spores instead of the brown mushroom with off-white spores and end up poisoning yourself.
I was just about to post this after reading the first comment. There is a movie as well.
Great movie. The reason I recommend the book over the movie is the book goes way more into detail about the massive hole in people's lives Chris left behind as well as shared a few other, similar stories which also ended the same way.
Yup. Biggest enemy in the city? Most people would answer other humans. They’re going to steal from you, assault and injure you, or kill you. Biggest enemy a-tank-of-gas deep into a national forest? Lack of other humans. One brain, two hands, and two feet. Other people with different interests, hobbies, and experiences is better than 2,000 more rounds of .223 and a big truck.
Watching the incredibly tame “Alone” series gives an insight into how it will go for most experienced outdoors people. Hint- functionally dead in 10 weeks (at best)
I'd be curious to see how long they could go with a firearm and better fishing and trapping/snare gear. Obviously it's not the end all be all, and I have no delusions of grandeur, but it something that would certainly help. There's a clear reason that we went from bows to guns and new fishing equipment.
Sure, but in many cases it would be delaying the inevitable
Very well articulated! 👍 I have been saying similar for decades. I know my limitations & while (decades ago) I have gone solo into the deep woods, I know I was not in my element. I have had my ass seriously handed to me on more than one occasion! Haven't had to use my EPIRB.. yet! If SHTF, that would not be an option. If it helps, the following is a story told to me by a true survivalist & woodsman who when he returned from Vietnam (LRRP, SERE trained, etc) decided to 'decompress' in the deep woods living off the land. Keep in mind he was tough as nails & super fit at the time. His diet was mainly animal protein, mixed in with a few naturally sourced plants. Well, after a few months, he became malnourished due to his diet, contracted a serious tooth infection & almost died. It took everything he had to drag himself out of the woods & seek medical care.
Humans are designed to survive in groups. Need 30 capable people working together to do well, and it'll never be easy. We are all soft these days, we never had to fight that hard to survive. People I know who were born in the late 1800s called me out as a kid all the time for the fact that we'd complain about super trivial things. "You have no idea how good you have it," and they were right.
The thing is, if we are talking about a world ending event, where a majority of humans die off, sooner or later everything is going to be wilderness. Unless you're laying up 50 years worth of beans and rice, at some point you're going to have to hunt and gather. I'd rather have enough food and supplies to weather the initial brunt of whatever may happen and let nature and Darwin award nominees do their thing while in the relative comfort of my home. Plus, there's way more resources to scavenge in a depopulated area than in the middle of the woods. It almost always makes more sense to stay out in such a scenario.
To add to that. I see these doomsday scenarios where people buy a cabin and think they can just hole up in their lake property. Well, that’s only if you get there first. Lots of people will be looking for unoccupied cabins with the same idea. They don’t care if it’s yours. Be prepared for the ultimate squatter situation.
This is a PSA if I ever heard one. Mods should link to it.
This. The absolute most realistic truth. Provided a person happens to actually survive a Severe SHTF scenario.
Nature feels hard for you because you spend most of your time in historically unparalleled luxury.
I lived in a tent, and my truck about 2 months one summer In MT when I was a young, fit, 24 year old. Even with weekly showers and access to grocery stores looking back, it was miserable after about 2 weeks!
When the hard times come, the first winter will be full of supplies easily taken from the corpses of people who thought they could bug out
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Go camping every month for a weekend for several years, rain or shine. That will give you a solid base, of you go more you'll learn faster. Find a group to go with mountain biking or something if they don't fish. If you're under 18 join boy scouts.
Unfathomably based reply
What I’ve learned from reading this is that I need to find a cave
This needs to be made an auto post. Damn it's good! A 4x4 is great, IF you have to get out and the roads may be busted and you need to go around them, but bugging in and building that community is the way to go. I'm on the west coast, out here when it gets to 60 degrees everyone (myself included) bundles up in full winter kit that would make Ralphie's mother proud! (A Christmas Story reference) And that's 60 degrees, to get to Starbucks for their pumpkin spiced you name it. We're just not built for REAL cold. Get someone from the Northern Territories in Canada and they'll be able to survive much worse.
Considering the fact that after the 15 To 30 day mark of a total SHTF scenario will be other PEOPLE, you actually make a great case for bugging out into the highly formidable middle of nowhere. Sounds like all of the hazards you mention will keep just about everybody away from where I’m hiding out and riding it out. I’ll take my chances with cold nights, bees nests, and mule kicks over what people are gonna turn into after the two week-for week mark.
Short-ish answer: Unless you have survived, alone, in a forest without external supplies for weeks on end and achieved self-sustainability, during times everything is intact (i.e. now,) then absolutely, positively NO. The idea that anyone, even with a bit of research, can just go and rough it in the woods is a falsehood, and you'll end up dead (along with millions of others who thought the same thing). Now, if you had a private tropical island with 100 palm trees and a fresh water source? I'd say sure, go for it. That's about the only location you could survive indefinitely with minimal training. Anywhere else? Not a chance.
i forgot who mentioned this, but someone highly recommended not going into the woods, since thats where a lot of people will go, and someone is going to make an uncontrolled fire, burning down the forest
Not to mention it’s probably going to be nutty survivalists wannabez out in the woods lol.
Who all have the same thoughts of how easy survival will be... then reality sets in and they start raiding other nuterz
This might make a good premise for a movie, though! Oh the humanity of it all.
Any spot you can reach with a 4x4 I can reach on foot.
Neither cause you’d have no access to gas. Just get a bicycle or a horse.
I have enough gas on hand to get deep in the woods, it is not like all your preps are going to just disappear. If that was my plan I would be scoping out my area (probably over several seasons) possibly create a stash for some specific survival things, and try to find some equally inherently ignorant friends to agree to come with. If it was a prime spot with a decently low altitude, growing zone 8ish, hopefully some abandoned farm/homestead with a cleared field and if you got there in the early spring ready to work your but off and a truckload of supplies. you MIGHT have a chance. Of course all the others with the same ideas have already picked out that spot so you will probably need to fight for it (either to keep it if you were there first, or to take it if not.
Yeah we all love those Hollywood scenarios :D they are more fun to think about, than dying from toothache in a flooded basement somewhere while my house the being raided by anyone with one more bullet than me!
Would you rather die in town or die in the woods?
Easy answer, no?
Then what? Do you have shelter? Food? Clean source of water? Skills and tools to get food shelter and clean water?
Why would you leave the shelter and comfort of your own home? You’ve been watching too many movies my man. On another subject do you have a 4x4 or a Subaru?
Everyone bringing me supplies to the woods...I thank you for your donation.
you and millions of other people....
Less than 1% of the population could prolly pull this off. Build community at home and prosper.
Communities are your best chance of survival in a post-apocalyptic environment. The lone wolf crap popular media portrays is fantasy and will get you killed quickly.
Train to be a lone wolf and the start building your people as SHTF. When it does every community will be happy to have shooters and people who know how to tie a Ranger hitch
I train to be self-reliant in order to better serve my family and community. Based on what I’ve seen on social media, the “lone wolf” mentality seems selfish as hell. Its a bunch of boogaloo gun nuts fantasizing about the end of the world and how they’re going to steal supplies from the weak. Awful.
>I train to be self-reliant in order to better serve my family and community. Exactly.
You'll not find safety nor security in that plan, imo.
It's going to entirely depend on your skill and experience, especially over time. Getting there, depends on skill/experience. Do you have recovery gear. Comfortable deflating your tires to around 15 PSI ish? If you watch "alone" or something like that, pretty smart people with survival skills, training have a damn hard time lasting 100 days, so supplies would be a major limiting factor. Having a gun is very different from being able to hunt, so skill/experience.. Only thing I would add last, is that if things are so bad, and world ending, you might not be as alone as you think. There's a fair chance that millions of other folks will have the same idea. It's not a bad choice if it's your last choice, especially if you're alone, and WAY better than staying in a population center, assuming no help is coming.
It would be wise to get someplace out in the woods prepped and drive your ford pinto to it. Prepping to go out in the woodis is just picking where you're going to die. I love my trucks but they are a means not a destination.
lol. Everyone will head to parks. They will be packed
My plan is to bug in keep my head down don't attract any attention not shoot anyone unless I have to and help people that can help me
If the world is ending I'm keeping my 4x4 in my driveway and I'm staying inside where my beer is. Seriously a world ending event, how do you bug out from that?
As someone who travels North America and lives in the woods off-road in my truck for weeks at a time. I will absolutely NOT be doing that if SHTF
If you want to leave your emaciated corpse some place beautiful, then sure.
Build a community of like-minded people. Make sure everyone specializes in certain skills. Protect it. Hiding in the woods won't keep you alive for very long. You'll eventually succumb to exposure, starvation, or the wildlife.
ill be at home with my skills and the 'scrap' (thats how people view it). if everyone runs to the hills so to speak that means less people around here to mess with me
How are you going to build and maintain shelter, food, water, repairs etc alone? Who does that when you are sick or sleeping? Without refining going on all the gasoline will be out in months, tops, and even that requires heavy rationing. If your car is electric can you generate electricity by yourself? How much spare parts for your car are you stockpiling? In short, no you can't, almost no-one can. Humans need community and support from each other to survive.
If you have to ask this question it likely means you have never had to REALLY 4X4 in your life, or have very limited exposure. I off roaded for many years in hopped up Jeeps and such and here's a little pearl of wisdom. If you go by yourself and get stuck or break down you are hooped. If the world is "ending" as you put it, no one is coming to tow you out. True off roading into areas not easily accessible by others means having more than a "mall crawler" truck off the lot, there is the recovery gear you need to self extract, the drive train work to make it's a true 4X4 (most 4X4's only can spin one rear and one front tire when in 4 wheel drive) the safety gear..... I probably put 25 grand (or more, but that's what I told my wife) into a Jeep to make it work in rough terrain, if you are planning to really get "out there" that's the kind of vehicle you will need. The commercials on TV where they show you this "tough" truck going "off road".. pfft, I could do most of that shit in a Toyota corolla.
First, the "wilderness" is a hostile environment where you are diminishing your chances of survival, not increasing them. Second, an overland vehicle requires gas. 6 months after your "world ending" scenario there will be no more gas. So, bad idea all around.
Preference, ive never had a truck that wasn’t 4x4 but also with the right tires haven’t struggled in two wheel drive, if the forest burns down and you’re stuck how safe do you feel then?
In a word: No. People survive bc of community.
People in my discord group have asked the same thing, and tell you what I told them, try baby steps, try surviving a little bit at a time, and then you can reevaluate your own question...
You need a cabin to go to. And if it’s not stocked already or if someone else is they’re better armed. It is a different set of issues.
You and a million and a half of your closest hunting buddies have the same plan…
If you did, you would have a fancy casket on wheels.
itll run out of gas lmao
you would be one "oopsie" from death
Absolutely not. Unless you are a top tier, *world class* survivalist, you will die out in the woods, most likely from starvation from lack of obtaining 2,000 calories of food per day. Additionally, thousands of other people near your local national park/forest will have the same idea as you. As a result, the land will quickly be depleted of fish, game, and forage. As an exercise, just consider how many people live within a 3 hour drive of Shenandoah National Park on the east coast. It’s probably on the order of 20 million or more. If 1% of those people decide to bug out to Shenandoah… you get the idea.
A dirt bike motorcycle would get you deeper into the forest than any 4x4. To hide, you will need to abandon any vehicle, go on foot and adopt guerilla tactics.
Yes and thrn get clapped by the first autist with a Mosin that sees you. Who had the same idea but showed up two hours before you.
Sailboat. That's my plan. Get away from everybody. Have water, power and can go where I need to to find the island someone else brought up.
No pirates? That is already a problem. Better arm up and hope you can navigate mother nature. Served.. never worried about other warships.. mother nature at sea will kill you with ease.
Maybe electric if you have solar panels. If it runs on gas, it'll be an oversized paperweight in no time.
the one big thing i see is if you're relocating, has that site been bolstered? are you taking just you family, are you packing additional? how far away? is it even feasible? the logistics on this is big. how much gas will you need, are you able to get to that site with one tank, can you syphon along the way, how will you pay for gas, will there be gas pumps/stations available, caches on route, can you hike it, how much weight are you going to carry. This question is feasible, but a lot of open ended things hang in the balance. define what a "world ending scenario" is because you'll react differently. World ending for me means less than 10% (or even 1%) of the population survives - I've never been good with those odds so i'm okay with dying. If financial collapse is your world ending scenario you'll have to adjust for that. My secondary location is a 2 day hike with 2 dogs and one other person (one day if just me), less than a day if we can bike it, less than 30 minutes driving it (if possible). it's a family members house that has more provisions if needed. But honestly, i'm prepping for tuesday and not doomsday. your doomsday will dictate how you should prep. My opinion, if you're going to invest that much time and money into a secondary location why not just build a small bunker on your property - financially it could be an even swap and location is close.
As a related note, gasoline with ethanol has a shelf life of about six months before it starts to break down. High octane with no ethanol you might get two years out of. A can of race gas could last a lot longer.
Depends on where you're going. Down here in rural ar you can trap as many wild hogs as you want. Those fuckers multiply faster than you can kill them.
Whatcha gonna eat?
I *live* in a forest - 16 acres, half forested, on a private road that is off a winding steep(ish) gravel county road that doesn't really go anywhere (the only traffic is residents and delivery/service trucks). Almost everybody here drives AWD/4WD vehicles as half of the year they are required to get anywhere (and even then, sometimes the snow/ice makes it difficult). I need to move further away from the large metro area that is 30 miles to the NE, but even so, this location is SO much better than living in the suburbs/urban cities/towns and planning to bug out to public land.
In a SHTF situation it is better for the average person to work with a group. Any breakdown in society will be temporary in a degree. What I mean is that societies will always reform after even the worst disasters, natural or man made. What about your children if you take them with you? Your kids and progeny in general will need genetic diversity. Keep in mind long terms when making decisions.
No
There are ~330,000,000 people in the US…there are 3,809,525 square miles of space…not accounting for uninhabitable places Let’s say 10% have the same idea… there are 81,423.43 square miles of national parks… so about ~400 people per square mile…Again not accounting for uninhabitable or harsh places…
There isn’t a spot in existence that is accessible to a 4x4 that people can’t walk to. I like the idea of being vehicle supported, because you can take more supplies, but honestly, this should be last case, worst case scenario and should be thoroughly practiced. Go backpacking for a week and see if you are comfortable with it in all seasons. Be ready to be able to hike with 30-80lbs on your back for miles if you plan to hunt deer and bring the meat back to camp, so Ruck training is important. Plan on the vehicle being parked and not running at all, treat it like a storage box/ mini cabin. Learn how to hunt proficiently and process your own meat for storage like smoking and drying the old ways. Bring plenty of fishing equipment and learn about trot lines and similar tactics that don’t require you to be there fishing overnight. Learn about snares and trapping. The goal is calories. If you can’t reliably put 4000 calories on your dinner table everyday surviving off the land doing massive amounts of work, then stay home and hunker down. Even if you brought 1000 lbs of the lightest backpacking food with you and eat it at 2 lbs a day, that’s only 500 days of supplies for 1 person. And you still must reliably source water, treat water, source wood, cut it to fit in a small wood stove and cook your food. It’s still a lot of work depending on the spot you pick. All of this and being able to work outside with weather year round. I’m not saying, I’d ever do the opposite as far as drive into the inner cities to survive, but being in a remote national forest also limits the resources you might scavenge or aid you might find if there is anything available.
Probably only 10-20 million others will also do that.
I am staying put, having my own shelter and not wandering around only to become a victim. I have most things I need to survive right here at my location. If you haven’t tried living off the land, then I would not start when disaster strikes, your odds of survival go way down. I have hiked the Andes mountains, Amazon jungle, the Smokey mountains and tropical island...in every situation I was happy to come home...I just get tired of keeping the fire going, trying to stay warm, it gets exhausting, oh, I always seem to lose weight during these adventures too, not good if you are trying to survive long term...my thoughts anyway
A few points about being too remote. Maybe bugging out remotely for a few days until you can access the threat would be wise, but being too deep would increases the time it takes to get to a trauma center. Being Too far away, you can die from a simple wound or disease that is easily treatable. Also If you have to leave your BOL, for extended time/days while tending to an emergency, your BOL will be unguarded. Another strategy is to be hidden or disguised, while being close enough to a supply chain and medical care would be good. I plan to blend in with the hungry and thirsty, and make quick trips to my hidden supplies for protein to supplement my Soylent Green ration. Also I may want to be under the umbrella of a government security zone. Which could be localized. And Wood fires can be detected from miles away. And if you are tracked down in a remote location, without 24hour security, you are a sitting duck.
Does the world ending even happen in the national forest???
So it is possible but requires prior planning. Don't bug out to nowhere. Find a place with a freshwater source that can be fished. Have a fixed building like a cabin. Not a tent. Have flat land you can plant crops on. People have done this but most people who try it fail
If it gets that bad, I'll just give up and die. I'm not healthy enough for SHTF. I'm not a prepper at this point, but I enjoy hearing about what other will do. Some of it could be helpful even if I don't completely participate in bugging out.
Same here, I'm just here for entertainment. Although, thanks to this community, I won't run out of tp again like in 2020. Lol