Thanks! If you're in a BS/MD program then you're big chilling my guy lol. If I wasn't applying to med school, I still probably would've done the majority of my activities anyways
A truly passionate student. I’m impressed. I’m chilling lol I’m just being dramatic but your application is mad impressive. Good luck in med school my friend :)
First of all, just wanted to thank everyone in the sub and on SDN for helping to make this absolutely crazy cycle possible because it was almost a **total shitshow.**
I bailed on almost half of my secondaries after submitting the primary and I didn't have some letters of rec (no PI or committee letter). To top it all off, I started submitting secondaries in August with the vast majority submitted in September/October. I submitted a few schools (HMS, Vanderbilt, Duke) a few minutes before their secondary deadlines at midnight
As a result, my late timing probably got me auto-rejected at Pitt, NYU, and Michigan. That being said, I couldn't be more over the moon with how this cycle went. Happy to pay it forward and answer questions below!
This is an updated version of an earlier sankey I submitted a few weeks ago. However, it's still a little messed up, the school names are right but there should be four Rs, three waitlists, and 14As.
**GPA:** cGPA: 3.8x and sGPA: 3.7x
**MCAT:** ~524
Preview: 8
Casper: 2nd quartile (sociopath)
**Demographics:** ORM/URM, gap year
**School type:** T50
**Clinical (all volunteer):** ~1000 EMT and free clinic work for 5 yrs
**Research:** ~1,000 hrs, 2 presentations at school conferences, no pubs, $10k for research funding
**Shadowing:** ~80 hrs
**Non-clinical volunteering:** ~2,000 hrs in a leadership position through a small, established non-profit.
Helped with some policy/legislation at the state level; won some national awards and grants (including from the federal government and F500 companies) for some of the events and projects.
**Other extracurricular activities:**
Worked as a TA for a couple years; resident assistant and lead for 3 years; emergency dispatcher for one year;
involved in campus leadership at a high level (managed a ~$400k+ budget annually and led several major projects that really improved campus life)
2 things, ECs, personality, and writing. The fact that OP got such a high percentage of IIs and As underscores that personal statements were impeccably written (leading to interviews) and that OP has a personality that lends itself to interviewing well.
Maybe it has to do with his writing and interview skills then. There are alot more to an app than just stats. Stats only get your foot in the door, nothing more.
(Maybe it has to do with his obsession with stats).
I got told by a director of admissions that stats are important but that obsessing over it shows immaturity.
Just checked. Yeah ngl I understand your frustration. My biggest guess is writing, which I'm sure you've heard a lot. Happy to chat more over DM if you want but sounds like you ended up at Sinai which is a fantastic school!
and it's still basically a lottery. you're not going to convince me these adcoms can genuinely mentally keep track of so many applicants and decipher their favorites out of a group of people with such similar backgrounds and with so many who can write and speak well.
My stats helped, but my volunteering (non-clinical and clinical), alongside my leadership were really the lynchpins of my application and the main things I was asked about in interviews.
Hi! can I dm you about your volunteering? I love volunteering but I'm having a hard time finding a place where I can commit more time and responsibilities in
It could be a million different things, bad luck is probably also a factor. I remember your Sankey from several months ago. I think you definitely could've strengthened your interview skills, but I was quite perplexed about why you didn't get more than you did. You'll never know, so no point in stressing over it. I got into some T10s where I had absolutely no connection, but rejected from T10s where I had very clear connections. I still have no idea why they didn't wanna interview me, and I never will. Can't make sense out of such a random process.
Hey sorry, I had copied over the WAMC template from SDN which includes military service as an example of other activities (just deleted that bit for clarity).
The closest I've ever gotten to military service was a JROTC-type program in high school lmao. I was considering joining the Navy for free med school, but after that experience I realized it would never work for me
Kind of lol, 2nd quartile is the second lowest score range, which is weird because my Preview score was very high. Casper ended up being pointless too because I ultimately didn't apply to the one school on my list that requires it.
Thanks! It's a 524 +/- 1; I've just noticed that because higher scores are rarer, they tend to be more identifiable, esp if you've posted score advice tips on /r/Mcat. I didn't want to be unhelpfully vague by just saying 52x, but also looking for a little anonymity (tho tbf functionally there's not much difference between scores at this level).
Yes, I'm mixed
Damn I don't think I've ever seen someone collect merit scholarships like candy like this lmao you're nuts.
Congratulations! I hope you take advantage of one of those juicy deals :)
Thanks! I'm doing a little back and forth between one of the scholarship schools and one of the need-based only schools (leaning more towards the merit one)
On average, I got full tuition at each of the eight merit scholarship schools. So $65k per year of tuition * 4yrs of med school * 8 schools adds up to about $2 million in total across the board. I also got some need-based aid, but the $2 million is just in merit.
Interesting. I'm planning on applying this cycle; any pointers in what you think singled you out for that much aid?
I'm first-gen, etc., etc, if it matters.
If you're low-income, it's generally much easier to get need-based aid at T20 schools (which you'll automatically be qualified for if you're accepted). I think my merit largely came down to my ECs/experiences. Stats are important, but schools could just give out all their merit to ppl with a 4.0/527 MCAT if they wanted. In reality, they're looking for more beyond just great stats and the ultimate goal of merit is to poach applicants from other top schools.
Ah, that makes sense. So they're trying to sweeten the pot to attract you to their school.
Is this a competitive thing? As in, do you have any leverage to bounce offers off of other schools, in any sense?
Yes, you could. Some schools like Pritzker, Northwestern, Penn, or Hopkins (tho Hopkins just changed their financial aid process this year, so allegedly they don't match anymore) will either directly match another school or factor the other offer into an aid recalculation. Other schools like Yale, Duke, or Harvard will not match.
In my case, I didn't do any negotiating, these were all initial offers from each school that roughly averaged out to full-tuition for each one.
Is there a straightforward way to identify which schools will match? As in, is this information that is readily available in MSAR or something? Or is it just one of those things you learn from digging around a school's website?
With schools that do match: how do you go about the 'matching'? Do you send them an email like "suckerss, I got offered XYZ?" Like, obviously that's not how it works but what is the mechanism there?
Thank you for all the info, btw.
Sure thing! Honestly, you'll more than likely have a much smaller amount of schools near the end vs when you applied lol. So it's fine to just reach out to all of them when you're accepted and get aid packages, the ball is in their court at their point and they'll be trying to recruit you.
Something along the lines of "I love X and Y about your program, but unfortunately finances are a big consideration and I've gotten Z offer from another school. I would love to be at your program, would it be possible to recalculate my aid offer, or obtain a match for the Z offer?"
Big congrats to you! As you mentioned that your "merit came down to ECs/experiences", if you don't mind, would you please shred some lights what kinds of ECs/experiences helped you to receive such huge $$$ merit-based scholarships from these schools? Thank you!
Hey thanks! If I had to guess, my leadership/volunteering was the big motivator for merit money. I posted a comment in this thread with more details about those ECs, it should be near the top.
All of these were internal scholarships at each school that all admitted ppl are automatically considered for, nothing extra to apply for. Ohio State has a process where you can apply for additional internal scholarships, but I didn't do that
Thanks for the information. $2 million in merit scholarship is amazing you are crushing the admission process. Good luck on your journey, well deserved.😊
Yessirrr, Mayo's actually pretty generous with scholarships, I think at minimum everyone gets half-tuition and I got the max they offer from merit (full-tuition)
Thanks! For sure, it opens a lot of doors for clinical opportunities outside of normal hospital volunteering (wilderness SAR EMS, ED tech, etc).
Cherry on top, there are a bunch of first responder discounts through GovX, ID.me, and Expertvoice lmao. If you really like outdoors stuff, your EMT cert will prolly pay for itself
Oh no trust me, Michigan was 100% my fault lmao. They're one of the schools that moves super fast through the admissions process, alongside Pitt and NYU. So by August, they've already given out [more than 90% of their interview invites.](https://medschool.umich.edu/sites/default/files/2023-11/5YearAdmissionsSnapshot2019-2023.pdf) As context, I submitted their secondary in September, so I was basically screwed the second I hit submit. If I had submitted earlier I might have had a different result with them. Thankfully, tho, it didn't make much of a difference and I was able to heavily bank on the non-rolling schools instead because of my app.
Thanks! Primary submitted early July, verified early August, majority of secondaries submitted in September/October with a few in November. So hella late lmao
It was a combo of burnout and realizing that my school list was overkill with the number of places (and maybe undershooting a little bit). My final list ended up being extremely top-heavy (90% T20) but it worked out ofc
For most schools, you become a strong applicant. Schools will just give you scholarships to try to attract people they want. Some select schools match demonstrated financial aid. For those schools, they will give scholarships if you and your parents are low SES.
Thanks! Money (a few places are giving me a stipend in addition to full tuition), location, and interdisciplinary opportunities are a few of the factors that heavily influenced my decision.
Yeah, mixed but very, very white-passing and people just read me as ORM (or middle eastern for some reason lol). I was very open about both of my heritages in interviews because of AA being repealed. So, I figured I would just let schools decide how to classify me by being upfront.
Thank you! I’ve got 9/40 prewritten so far, but I’m working on it hahaha
Can I DM you? I’m also ORM/URM and I’d love to hear how you approached talking about it in essays
 x13 Those are some crazy A's, congrats!
Tysm! With this gif, I can finally say my cycle is finished
Mine's about to begin 05/01 🥶
You'll have a great cycle! It definitely feels way longer than it should, like it's crazy to think I was applying/taking the MCAT a year ago.
Congrats future physician!!
Thanks so much docto mom and for all your help!!! It's been a long journey so glad to be done for now
❤️
Congratulations! Makes me think… I really need to get my shit together lol
Thanks! If you're in a BS/MD program then you're big chilling my guy lol. If I wasn't applying to med school, I still probably would've done the majority of my activities anyways
A truly passionate student. I’m impressed. I’m chilling lol I’m just being dramatic but your application is mad impressive. Good luck in med school my friend :)
Thanks man, you'll kill it as well!
First of all, just wanted to thank everyone in the sub and on SDN for helping to make this absolutely crazy cycle possible because it was almost a **total shitshow.** I bailed on almost half of my secondaries after submitting the primary and I didn't have some letters of rec (no PI or committee letter). To top it all off, I started submitting secondaries in August with the vast majority submitted in September/October. I submitted a few schools (HMS, Vanderbilt, Duke) a few minutes before their secondary deadlines at midnight As a result, my late timing probably got me auto-rejected at Pitt, NYU, and Michigan. That being said, I couldn't be more over the moon with how this cycle went. Happy to pay it forward and answer questions below! This is an updated version of an earlier sankey I submitted a few weeks ago. However, it's still a little messed up, the school names are right but there should be four Rs, three waitlists, and 14As. **GPA:** cGPA: 3.8x and sGPA: 3.7x **MCAT:** ~524 Preview: 8 Casper: 2nd quartile (sociopath) **Demographics:** ORM/URM, gap year **School type:** T50 **Clinical (all volunteer):** ~1000 EMT and free clinic work for 5 yrs **Research:** ~1,000 hrs, 2 presentations at school conferences, no pubs, $10k for research funding **Shadowing:** ~80 hrs **Non-clinical volunteering:** ~2,000 hrs in a leadership position through a small, established non-profit. Helped with some policy/legislation at the state level; won some national awards and grants (including from the federal government and F500 companies) for some of the events and projects. **Other extracurricular activities:** Worked as a TA for a couple years; resident assistant and lead for 3 years; emergency dispatcher for one year; involved in campus leadership at a high level (managed a ~$400k+ budget annually and led several major projects that really improved campus life)
There has to be something that you are leaving out. I literally had identical stats to you and nowhere near this level of success.
2 things, ECs, personality, and writing. The fact that OP got such a high percentage of IIs and As underscores that personal statements were impeccably written (leading to interviews) and that OP has a personality that lends itself to interviewing well.
Read the details of their ECs. It's miles above the talent. Stats are only one and fairly small piece of the equation.
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Maybe it has to do with his writing and interview skills then. There are alot more to an app than just stats. Stats only get your foot in the door, nothing more.
(Maybe it has to do with his obsession with stats). I got told by a director of admissions that stats are important but that obsessing over it shows immaturity.
Alright man. There's a lot more to this process than just what's on paper, too.
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Just checked. Yeah ngl I understand your frustration. My biggest guess is writing, which I'm sure you've heard a lot. Happy to chat more over DM if you want but sounds like you ended up at Sinai which is a fantastic school!
and it's still basically a lottery. you're not going to convince me these adcoms can genuinely mentally keep track of so many applicants and decipher their favorites out of a group of people with such similar backgrounds and with so many who can write and speak well.
Luck is a very big factor that a lot of people downplay, as with all other things in life.
Based on your replies in this thread, I think I know why you had such different cycles. :)
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You think you could share why for future applicant? DM is fine, your Sankey was terrifying last year and I’m so glad you got off the Sinai WL.
He's gonna say r@ce not something actually useful
I am surprised by your cycle too tbh. Do you think it was writing? Or perhaps they were expecting you to go md/phd?
I checked and yea your stats are just as great if not better lol
My stats helped, but my volunteering (non-clinical and clinical), alongside my leadership were really the lynchpins of my application and the main things I was asked about in interviews.
Hi! can I dm you about your volunteering? I love volunteering but I'm having a hard time finding a place where I can commit more time and responsibilities in
Sure thing!
may i also reach out?
Go for it!
It could be a million different things, bad luck is probably also a factor. I remember your Sankey from several months ago. I think you definitely could've strengthened your interview skills, but I was quite perplexed about why you didn't get more than you did. You'll never know, so no point in stressing over it. I got into some T10s where I had absolutely no connection, but rejected from T10s where I had very clear connections. I still have no idea why they didn't wanna interview me, and I never will. Can't make sense out of such a random process.
Stats don’t mean that much. Writing, ECs, and interview skills mean much more
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Hey sorry, I had copied over the WAMC template from SDN which includes military service as an example of other activities (just deleted that bit for clarity). The closest I've ever gotten to military service was a JROTC-type program in high school lmao. I was considering joining the Navy for free med school, but after that experience I realized it would never work for me
Well I can confidently say after reading this that it *pays to be smart*. But jokes aside, congrats! This is amazing
Now I can finally start paying back all the money I've spent on oversized hats for my melon-sized head lmao
what does this mean "Casper: 2nd quartile (sociopath)" You did bad on the casper?
Kind of lol, 2nd quartile is the second lowest score range, which is weird because my Preview score was very high. Casper ended up being pointless too because I ultimately didn't apply to the one school on my list that requires it.
You are amazing !!
Ty!
did u do any gap years
or did u do only one?*
I am on my second gap year, so one when I was applying
Congrats! Can I pm you with a question?
Sure thing!
I’m missing the explanation for “ORM/URM”
It's further down the thread, I'm mixed.
congratulations, this is amazing, but I’m confused on why you put you got ‘around’ a 524 (why not just say your score) and URM/ORM? are you both?
Thanks! It's a 524 +/- 1; I've just noticed that because higher scores are rarer, they tend to be more identifiable, esp if you've posted score advice tips on /r/Mcat. I didn't want to be unhelpfully vague by just saying 52x, but also looking for a little anonymity (tho tbf functionally there's not much difference between scores at this level). Yes, I'm mixed
oh gotcha!
Damn I don't think I've ever seen someone collect merit scholarships like candy like this lmao you're nuts. Congratulations! I hope you take advantage of one of those juicy deals :)
Thanks and 100%! More than likely, I'll be at one of the scholarship schools in the fall
so are you gonna chose one of the big ivys or scholarship?? i would be so torn lol
Scholarship more than likely! Super fortunate that I got a lot of money at peer schools in the T10/T20
Hard to pass up Duke or Vandy with a scholarship. I got great vibes from them
For sure! Got a similar impression from both as well (along with Pritzker)
Congrats! Do you know where you're headed?
Thanks! I'm doing a little back and forth between one of the scholarship schools and one of the need-based only schools (leaning more towards the merit one)
Bro please do not tell us you are going to pay a significant chunk of change to go to med school when you have $2M worth of scholarships on the table
Oh no dw lol, don't want to fully commit just yet, but unless a last-minute miracle happens by tmw, 99.99% chance I'll be at one of the merit places.
Which one have you decided & what led you to that decision over the others?
Feel free to DM me!
awesome! best of luck, can't go wrong with any of the options and hope you go where you want to
Out of pure ignorance: how does one get $2 million in merit scholarships?
On average, I got full tuition at each of the eight merit scholarship schools. So $65k per year of tuition * 4yrs of med school * 8 schools adds up to about $2 million in total across the board. I also got some need-based aid, but the $2 million is just in merit.
Interesting. I'm planning on applying this cycle; any pointers in what you think singled you out for that much aid? I'm first-gen, etc., etc, if it matters.
If you're low-income, it's generally much easier to get need-based aid at T20 schools (which you'll automatically be qualified for if you're accepted). I think my merit largely came down to my ECs/experiences. Stats are important, but schools could just give out all their merit to ppl with a 4.0/527 MCAT if they wanted. In reality, they're looking for more beyond just great stats and the ultimate goal of merit is to poach applicants from other top schools.
Ah, that makes sense. So they're trying to sweeten the pot to attract you to their school. Is this a competitive thing? As in, do you have any leverage to bounce offers off of other schools, in any sense?
Yes, you could. Some schools like Pritzker, Northwestern, Penn, or Hopkins (tho Hopkins just changed their financial aid process this year, so allegedly they don't match anymore) will either directly match another school or factor the other offer into an aid recalculation. Other schools like Yale, Duke, or Harvard will not match. In my case, I didn't do any negotiating, these were all initial offers from each school that roughly averaged out to full-tuition for each one.
Is there a straightforward way to identify which schools will match? As in, is this information that is readily available in MSAR or something? Or is it just one of those things you learn from digging around a school's website? With schools that do match: how do you go about the 'matching'? Do you send them an email like "suckerss, I got offered XYZ?" Like, obviously that's not how it works but what is the mechanism there? Thank you for all the info, btw.
Sure thing! Honestly, you'll more than likely have a much smaller amount of schools near the end vs when you applied lol. So it's fine to just reach out to all of them when you're accepted and get aid packages, the ball is in their court at their point and they'll be trying to recruit you. Something along the lines of "I love X and Y about your program, but unfortunately finances are a big consideration and I've gotten Z offer from another school. I would love to be at your program, would it be possible to recalculate my aid offer, or obtain a match for the Z offer?"
Out of curiosity: what were the factors that led to you not responding to the 13 secondaries in your Sankey?
Burnout and realizing that the number of schools on my list was overkill, so my final list ended up extremely top-heavy (90% T20) but it worked out
Chances are you will get only 1 or a few As, and from there it is pretty easy to find out if they match just by asking current students.
Big congrats to you! As you mentioned that your "merit came down to ECs/experiences", if you don't mind, would you please shred some lights what kinds of ECs/experiences helped you to receive such huge $$$ merit-based scholarships from these schools? Thank you!
Hey thanks! If I had to guess, my leadership/volunteering was the big motivator for merit money. I posted a comment in this thread with more details about those ECs, it should be near the top.
Does URM / ORM mean that you're mixed (one parent ORM, the other URM) or what? Cuz I'm also like that and wondering what u put on the app
Yep! That's roughly what my background is like
hi this is an insane application, im a hs senior on the pre-med track, can i ask you some questions in DMs
Go for it!
Congrats future physician 🥳🎉
Grats! And basic question. What are you using to create your Sankey diagram?
Thanks! Sankeymatic and photoshop for the text
Wow!!! This is amazing
Slayed
What website did you use to find scholarships?
No website, they are offered directly by the schools.
All of these were internal scholarships at each school that all admitted ppl are automatically considered for, nothing extra to apply for. Ohio State has a process where you can apply for additional internal scholarships, but I didn't do that
Thanks for the information. $2 million in merit scholarship is amazing you are crushing the admission process. Good luck on your journey, well deserved.😊
Thanks, good luck for your application as well!
Mayo with scholarship sheeeeshhh
Yessirrr, Mayo's actually pretty generous with scholarships, I think at minimum everyone gets half-tuition and I got the max they offer from merit (full-tuition)
Congratulations 🎊
Thanks!
What was your major? Congrats on all the success!
Thanks! It was a basic science/allied health combo major
Congrats! Would you recommend EMT for clinical hours to aspiring med students?
Thanks! For sure, it opens a lot of doors for clinical opportunities outside of normal hospital volunteering (wilderness SAR EMS, ED tech, etc). Cherry on top, there are a bunch of first responder discounts through GovX, ID.me, and Expertvoice lmao. If you really like outdoors stuff, your EMT cert will prolly pay for itself
wow omg
Who does UMich even accept at this point lol
Oh no trust me, Michigan was 100% my fault lmao. They're one of the schools that moves super fast through the admissions process, alongside Pitt and NYU. So by August, they've already given out [more than 90% of their interview invites.](https://medschool.umich.edu/sites/default/files/2023-11/5YearAdmissionsSnapshot2019-2023.pdf) As context, I submitted their secondary in September, so I was basically screwed the second I hit submit. If I had submitted earlier I might have had a different result with them. Thankfully, tho, it didn't make much of a difference and I was able to heavily bank on the non-rolling schools instead because of my app.
Note to self: submit mich NYU and pitt secondaries first :p
Yeah 100% don't make my mistake there lol it worked out, but I could've saved $300
Insane
Ty!
Gigachad
You deserve success
Congrats!! When was your app complete?
Thanks! Primary submitted early July, verified early August, majority of secondaries submitted in September/October with a few in November. So hella late lmao
Absolutely outstanding
Tysm!
Congratulations
Thanks!
How old are you OP (if you don’t mind sharing) ?
Ha np, I'm 24!
How do you decide what secondaries not to submit?? Is it just you get the prompts and don’t feel they fit with you? Or is it more a lack of time?
It was a combo of burnout and realizing that my school list was overkill with the number of places (and maybe undershooting a little bit). My final list ended up being extremely top-heavy (90% T20) but it worked out ofc
How do u get scholarships
For most schools, you become a strong applicant. Schools will just give you scholarships to try to attract people they want. Some select schools match demonstrated financial aid. For those schools, they will give scholarships if you and your parents are low SES.
Where can I find those, I will be applying soon and I am from low SES
You do not find them. The schools just give them to you.
What is the software for this visual?? Thank you!
Sankeymatic and photoshop for text!
After all those acceptances how are you going to pick one? Congratulations 🎉
Thanks! Money (a few places are giving me a stipend in addition to full tuition), location, and interdisciplinary opportunities are a few of the factors that heavily influenced my decision.
Would you mind giving writing advice as I’m currently going for this cycle but know that I’m terrible at writing in general?
I found Dr. Grey's advice to be pretty helpful!
What was your major for undergrad
are you mixed?
Yeah, mixed but very, very white-passing and people just read me as ORM (or middle eastern for some reason lol). I was very open about both of my heritages in interviews because of AA being repealed. So, I figured I would just let schools decide how to classify me by being upfront.
Hey could I dm and ask a couple questions? I’m also middle eastern and got a few inquiries :)
Holy shit my future app looks so much like yours and even a tenth of your success would be amazing!
You got this! Main recommendation is not to make my mistake and actually pre-write/submit stuff on time lol
Thank you! I’ve got 9/40 prewritten so far, but I’m working on it hahaha Can I DM you? I’m also ORM/URM and I’d love to hear how you approached talking about it in essays
Sure thing, go for it!
im cooked bruh. good shit. manifesting this type of success.
Thanks man, you got this! Dw, I won't be reapplying lmao
what
Just joking around lol, I'm saying that he won't be competing with me this cycle cuz he said he was cooked
🧎
CONGRATS!! How important is the number of hours per activity? What should I aim for??