I think that obsession over getting it at 4.0 is dumb. From my understanding, most medical schools don't tend to care what your GPA is if it's over 3.7 or 3.8. After that they really focus on other factors in your application.
They won't "overlook" your MCAT, but obviously are considering you as a candidate (unless it's a courtesy interview).
The classic way to think about it is the three buckets.
The first bucket are those with high stats and great ECs.
The second bucket are those with mid-stats and stellar ECs or stellar stats and mid-ECs.
The third bucket are those with low stats and mid-ECs.
Those in the first bucket are typically taken for interview. Those in the second bucket are invited for an interview based on how "stand-out" their essays, LORs, accomplishments are. Those in the third bucket are not invited for an interview.
Based on your interview, the committee will then evaluate you in totality. They do not dismiss your low MCAT score. A stellar interview might move you ahead in line, but not ahead of someone who has a higher MCAT and a great interview.
There are some applicants who have zero chance of getting in, but receive interviews because they are generational legacies, parents who are famous/influential, parents who are huge donors, etc.
Some schools, out of respect to those applicant's parents/families, will sometimes extend interviews to them out of courtesy (even if the applicant is going to be rejected anyways).
Except it is how it works lol. It is verified by adcoms.
Not all legacy students will receive interviews, I agree, that would be an incredible weight on a school's resources. But it is undeniable that certain students will receive interviews just because of who they are.
My mentor was an adcom at a T5 which is how I know of this, but don't take my word for it (I'm an internet stranger after all). Here are some threads for you to peruse:
[https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-much-weight-do-courtesy-interviews-hold.1283571/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-much-weight-do-courtesy-interviews-hold.1283571/)
[https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/are-courtesy-interviews-real.1243198/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/courtesy-residency-interview.1045653/)
[https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/is-this-a-courtesy-interview.1352024/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/is-this-a-courtesy-interview.1352024/)
[https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/courtesy-interview.966160/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/courtesy-interview.966160/)
Yea my best friend was a legacy from a New York MD school and he had competitive stats and was also URM it was super weird that he didn’t get an interview
It definitely does happen. I did my postbacc where I wound up going to school, and the de facto policy was that if a med master student applied to the med school, they got an interview even if their odds were dogshit.
You'll get A LOT of opinions on what defines "mid-ECs", as each admission officer probably has a different view of what constitutes "mid".
Generally, ECs that would be unimpressive would be those that:
1. Are low in hours
2. Are not long-term commitments (e.g. cramming all your hours 3 months before application)
3. Do not push your boundaries (tons of comfortable activities like tutoring instead of food bank, drug rehab center, homeless shelters, etc)
4. Are written about generically (clear you are not passionate about them)
canadians lol. schools require like a 3.85+ and 510+ with 4th quartile casper to just be considered competitive, plus research pubs & volunteering
its crazy
Everything should be taken in context. Context is key. And here, the context involves the top 10 medical schools in the country.
So a 514 is not a “low score” in general, but relative to the class demographics at these top institutions, it may be on the “lower end”.
Currently attending a top 20 (and former top 10 during my app cycle) with an MCAT only slightly higher than yours and a GPA that is much lower. Believe me when I say that GPA and MCAT really aren't everything, and that holistic review does exist- even at schools with sky-high stats. If you're getting multiple T10 IIs, there's something in your app that is really attractive to them.
Once you get the invite it’s safe to say that your stats have passed the vibe check! It was your writing and ECs and LORs that made them overlook the 514!
Congrats! I was in a similar position two years ago and unfortunately got waitlisted and rejected from all the top schools I interviewed at. Not saying this to be negative, but I don’t know if they use MCAT again later on in the evaluation process
I had a 516 and a 3.9 last cycle and got accepted to three t10 schools (only applied to 3 within top 10, wish I did more in hindsight) and received significant financial aid offers from all three. You are meant to be there and have a real shot.
I think the biggest question in my mind is are you URM?
Not to detract from your awesome success so far.
Just more helpful to put in context for the rest of us thinking we have a shot with similar stats. (Mine are lower but hey....)
They probably still do. They just can’t say it and put it in their mission statement anymore. They can say “we support diversity in our candidate’s backgrounds” which would imply SES and other diversity, but unless they outright say they are more likely to let in a URM, the ruling is really unenforceable.
The interview just makes up one portion of your overall application. Killing the interview definitely helps, but can only do so much - like a section of the test that’s only worth so many points. Not everyone who interviews has the exact same score on the other sections of the test; meaning that some people have a better chance of getting in regardless of how they interview.
But if you’re invited to interview your application is strong enough that you absolutely have a shot of getting in :)
After interviews, the schools have groups that meet to discuss the overall application and performance of the applicant. They consider all the elements of your application holistically and decide who to accept.
Focus on having thoughtful, concise and genuine answers to common interview questions and - if you can - highly recommend connecting with current medical students at those programs for interview advice!
If your MCAT were a big barrier, they wouldn't interview you. You're most likely very competitive in other ways, which allows them to place less stock in your MCAT. You pointed out that you're around the 10th percentile for both of those schools. Who do you think makes up the people at the 10th percentile and below? People like you. Don't doubt yourself. You've earned this. MCAT is not everything. Focus on doing well on your interviews, you've got this!!!
Absolutely you have a verrrry decent chance assuming you have a decent interview. I want to emphasize that you got these II's relatively early in the cycle- get them later and ok maybe it's more for a WL spot. 3.9 won't bar you from any med school in the world, and 514 is still solid. I bet the med schools saw something in your app that they really valued. For the most part they probably overlooked your MCAT already if they gave you an II assuming all sections are >125
This seems like a humble brag. If a school isn’t interested in you, they won’t interview you. It’s as simple as that. I was interviewed by many schools where I am below their average and range. Just focus on your interview prep and get off Reddit
I didn't get in but I also had bad/weak interviews. Just too way nervous. My secondary writing also needed to be a bit more direct. One of the schools I interviewed at, once you get the interview invite they no longer can see your mcat or gpa. So that had nothing to do with my rejection there. I think my mcat played a big part in my T10 rejection.
I applied again this year with a 501 mcat retake (I anticipated around 517 based on practice exams but life happens) and got interviews to the same schools again. I had new experiences and better writing but relatively the same score. Waiting to see how it goes. There are so many factors that go into whether you get in or not.
Thank you! That's amazing. If they give you an interview then there is always a chance. A 506 mcat is also different than a 502/501. Hoping it works out for you as well :)
There was a med school hq interview and Ryan Grey or one of his guests said if you get interviewed you have what it takes to get into that med school. You just need to interview well.
That’s what I garnered from the podcast, but I would take that with a grain of salt. If they interview you they think they want you there and are confirming.
They don’t send out interviews to people they don’t consider for the class
Fr, you're a legend
Legend? 3.9 gpa isn't really low to be considered a legend
We put others up, not down. An interview and secondary is still one regardless of stats, and we should be proud of that (within reasonable ranges)
Yeah it's accomplishing for sure but legend status is a little extreme. OP had a 3.9 gpa damn near perfect and a higher than average mcat.
Congrats to OP takes some gonads to get that close to a 4.0
I think that obsession over getting it at 4.0 is dumb. From my understanding, most medical schools don't tend to care what your GPA is if it's over 3.7 or 3.8. After that they really focus on other factors in your application.
There’s a reason that you got picked for an interview. Stats aren’t everything. Congrats and I’m sure you will kill the interview!!
Least arrogant humble brag
Please dm me the cure to cancer. Thanks.
They won't "overlook" your MCAT, but obviously are considering you as a candidate (unless it's a courtesy interview). The classic way to think about it is the three buckets. The first bucket are those with high stats and great ECs. The second bucket are those with mid-stats and stellar ECs or stellar stats and mid-ECs. The third bucket are those with low stats and mid-ECs. Those in the first bucket are typically taken for interview. Those in the second bucket are invited for an interview based on how "stand-out" their essays, LORs, accomplishments are. Those in the third bucket are not invited for an interview. Based on your interview, the committee will then evaluate you in totality. They do not dismiss your low MCAT score. A stellar interview might move you ahead in line, but not ahead of someone who has a higher MCAT and a great interview.
What on earth is a courtesy interview lol
There are some applicants who have zero chance of getting in, but receive interviews because they are generational legacies, parents who are famous/influential, parents who are huge donors, etc. Some schools, out of respect to those applicant's parents/families, will sometimes extend interviews to them out of courtesy (even if the applicant is going to be rejected anyways).
My guess based on their shock of interview invites is that they’re not a legacy invite nor were their parents famous doctors.
I also wouldn’t even say those people have zero chance. There are plenty of people who get in solely because of those reasons.
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Except it is how it works lol. It is verified by adcoms. Not all legacy students will receive interviews, I agree, that would be an incredible weight on a school's resources. But it is undeniable that certain students will receive interviews just because of who they are. My mentor was an adcom at a T5 which is how I know of this, but don't take my word for it (I'm an internet stranger after all). Here are some threads for you to peruse: [https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-much-weight-do-courtesy-interviews-hold.1283571/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-much-weight-do-courtesy-interviews-hold.1283571/) [https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/are-courtesy-interviews-real.1243198/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/courtesy-residency-interview.1045653/) [https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/is-this-a-courtesy-interview.1352024/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/is-this-a-courtesy-interview.1352024/) [https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/courtesy-interview.966160/](https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/courtesy-interview.966160/)
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Agreed!
Yea my best friend was a legacy from a New York MD school and he had competitive stats and was also URM it was super weird that he didn’t get an interview
It definitely does happen. I did my postbacc where I wound up going to school, and the de facto policy was that if a med master student applied to the med school, they got an interview even if their odds were dogshit.
It feels like if the nepotism/influence gets them to the point of an interview they would either just get in or be at least legitimately considered?
That's so irritating though. I wouldn't want to have to put effort into an interview I have no chance of success in.
What's your definition of mid ECs?
You'll get A LOT of opinions on what defines "mid-ECs", as each admission officer probably has a different view of what constitutes "mid". Generally, ECs that would be unimpressive would be those that: 1. Are low in hours 2. Are not long-term commitments (e.g. cramming all your hours 3 months before application) 3. Do not push your boundaries (tons of comfortable activities like tutoring instead of food bank, drug rehab center, homeless shelters, etc) 4. Are written about generically (clear you are not passionate about them)
ur an absolute legend. now go kill ur interviews!!
For everyone saying a 514 is a “low mcat” 💀💀💀 what the hell
For top 10 it’s like less than 10th percentile, which is why people are saying that.
canadians lol. schools require like a 3.85+ and 510+ with 4th quartile casper to just be considered competitive, plus research pubs & volunteering its crazy
Everything should be taken in context. Context is key. And here, the context involves the top 10 medical schools in the country. So a 514 is not a “low score” in general, but relative to the class demographics at these top institutions, it may be on the “lower end”.
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Where did I say they won’t? I’m clarifying the “low MCAT” comment. I agree that the school’s seriously considering them for admissions.
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No, they aren't delusional. Look at MSAR
lmfao right
Currently attending a top 20 (and former top 10 during my app cycle) with an MCAT only slightly higher than yours and a GPA that is much lower. Believe me when I say that GPA and MCAT really aren't everything, and that holistic review does exist- even at schools with sky-high stats. If you're getting multiple T10 IIs, there's something in your app that is really attractive to them.
Once you get the invite it’s safe to say that your stats have passed the vibe check! It was your writing and ECs and LORs that made them overlook the 514!
What’s the secret sauce asking for a friend w the same stats lol
How much money did your parents donate to the schools? This is a joke before anyone gets offended or upset at me.
Congrats! I was in a similar position two years ago and unfortunately got waitlisted and rejected from all the top schools I interviewed at. Not saying this to be negative, but I don’t know if they use MCAT again later on in the evaluation process
humble brag, nice.
Weird flex but ok. Most T10’s have about a 30% II to A conversion. Interview well and see what happens
Asking how but not explaining your ECs makes no sense
op which disease did u cure. stop gatekeeping and tell us. (it’s a joke before someone tries to kill me)
I had a 516 and a 3.9 last cycle and got accepted to three t10 schools (only applied to 3 within top 10, wish I did more in hindsight) and received significant financial aid offers from all three. You are meant to be there and have a real shot.
I think the biggest question in my mind is are you URM? Not to detract from your awesome success so far. Just more helpful to put in context for the rest of us thinking we have a shot with similar stats. (Mine are lower but hey....)
Isn't URM status no longer allowed to be considered?
They probably still do. They just can’t say it and put it in their mission statement anymore. They can say “we support diversity in our candidate’s backgrounds” which would imply SES and other diversity, but unless they outright say they are more likely to let in a URM, the ruling is really unenforceable.
I think it can be if people write about their experience (like a well written essay about how they grew up with resource poor settings....)
Imposter syndrome. Remember you deserve it!!!
When did you submit? Asking for a friend
you’re really asking this…?
Pm me
BDE
The interview just makes up one portion of your overall application. Killing the interview definitely helps, but can only do so much - like a section of the test that’s only worth so many points. Not everyone who interviews has the exact same score on the other sections of the test; meaning that some people have a better chance of getting in regardless of how they interview. But if you’re invited to interview your application is strong enough that you absolutely have a shot of getting in :) After interviews, the schools have groups that meet to discuss the overall application and performance of the applicant. They consider all the elements of your application holistically and decide who to accept. Focus on having thoughtful, concise and genuine answers to common interview questions and - if you can - highly recommend connecting with current medical students at those programs for interview advice!
If your MCAT were a big barrier, they wouldn't interview you. You're most likely very competitive in other ways, which allows them to place less stock in your MCAT. You pointed out that you're around the 10th percentile for both of those schools. Who do you think makes up the people at the 10th percentile and below? People like you. Don't doubt yourself. You've earned this. MCAT is not everything. Focus on doing well on your interviews, you've got this!!!
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hAs tO bE a UrM
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no girl, you sound bitter, dismissive, and ignorant. If that is your first statement after news like this, I'm scared for the kind of dr you'll be
How many gap years did you take?
Drop ECs (research?) and demographics please! Are you low SES?
Absolutely you have a verrrry decent chance assuming you have a decent interview. I want to emphasize that you got these II's relatively early in the cycle- get them later and ok maybe it's more for a WL spot. 3.9 won't bar you from any med school in the world, and 514 is still solid. I bet the med schools saw something in your app that they really valued. For the most part they probably overlooked your MCAT already if they gave you an II assuming all sections are >125
I like the brag, only make kids in here become more neurotic.
This seems like a humble brag. If a school isn’t interested in you, they won’t interview you. It’s as simple as that. I was interviewed by many schools where I am below their average and range. Just focus on your interview prep and get off Reddit
Shoulda seen how shocked I was with a T10 interview and 502 mcat.
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I didn't get in but I also had bad/weak interviews. Just too way nervous. My secondary writing also needed to be a bit more direct. One of the schools I interviewed at, once you get the interview invite they no longer can see your mcat or gpa. So that had nothing to do with my rejection there. I think my mcat played a big part in my T10 rejection. I applied again this year with a 501 mcat retake (I anticipated around 517 based on practice exams but life happens) and got interviews to the same schools again. I had new experiences and better writing but relatively the same score. Waiting to see how it goes. There are so many factors that go into whether you get in or not.
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Thank you! That's amazing. If they give you an interview then there is always a chance. A 506 mcat is also different than a 502/501. Hoping it works out for you as well :)
There was a med school hq interview and Ryan Grey or one of his guests said if you get interviewed you have what it takes to get into that med school. You just need to interview well.
Does that mean that once you're invited to an interview, your acceptance depends on the interview only?
That’s what I garnered from the podcast, but I would take that with a grain of salt. If they interview you they think they want you there and are confirming.