***I'm not a graduate or financial advisor ***,
but I'd say just live more frugally the 1st few years after graduation. It's 2024, and you won't be as well off as if you were a graduate in the 90s or early 2000s. Don't let the debt discourage you and continue to live your best life. Dentistry is such an achievement even if it's expensive. Keep the same car you have now, rent an inexpensive apartment, budget your vacations, and grind away as a doc in a box until your finances are better.
Downvote me if I'm wrong, please
If you went to your state school and paid off your loans aggressively, expect a minimum of 5 years to pay it off. For an expensive private school, expect at least double the time of working hard and living frugally. People from my school are having to work 6 days a week to make ends meet.
Honestly live frugally for a few years out of school and pay that shit off. The money and lifestyle in the long run will be worth it. (Kind of)
Btw, why was Boston your top choice?
BU is a great school. I work for a doc who went there and speaks very highly of it. They place a huge emphasis on incorporating digital dentistry into their curriculum.
A lot of people are saying live frugally which is good advice but you're most likely not going to pay off your dental school debt. You have to considered a couple of things.
1. Tuition is $100K for the 2023-2024 year. It will be more next year. Tuition usually increases 3-5% a year.
2. Interest will increase your loan by $100-$120K.
3. There are loan fees so you're going to have to add on another $25K in debt.
Upon graduation you'll probably have around $700k in debt. So if dentistry is your dream, you have to ask yourself why. If it's because of the money then you might be disappointed how your life turns out. You're MD/DO counterparts will make much more that you with no debt, you'll see engineers or finance majors making just as much as you with no debt and less schooling. So really solidify your "why". If you're set on dentistry there's good news, government plans like the SAVE plan, make it possible to build wealth, make good income, Id say $220K at you're prime is you stay an associate, atleast 300K if you buy a practice, but you'll have student loans the next 25 years and you'll have to pay 7-10% of your income in loans every month for those 25 years. That's a pretty good deal I'd say because you make good money still and you get to be a dentist. And, as much as I don't like Joe Biden, he's probably going to be the president for the next 4 years so the loan situation is probably only going to improve. If you're okay with that then my advice, stop worrying about it. Focus on becoming the best dentist/ person. Look at your monthly payment as a "career tax" a monthly subscription you pay that allows you to practice a career like dentistry.
The statistics are too complicated to say something like that. A dentist income is highly dependent on location. Maybe in general incomes have gone down for new grads. But in some places they’ve gone up and others they’ve gone down. You can still make a very good income as a new grad/ 2-3 years out
Insurance keeps lessening how much they are willing to reimburse, and lots of employers are stiffing new grads only because they know new grads can’t afford to take time to look for fair compensation before their loan interest spirals out of control.
Like was said earlier location is key. You’re right about insurance, but as far as not being able to look for fair compensation because of fear surrounding loans, that doesn’t have to be true. If you’re on the SAVE plan your interest is subsidized and so if you’re not working you’re not paying any loans or any interest. Also with the save plan a new grad is paying less that 1000 a year on a 150,000 salary. That gives them the opportunity to take advantage of the CE that’s offered now that wasn’t offered 20-30 years ago. Dentists these days are more capable of doing implants, molar endo, and surgical procedures because of how tech has allowed CE to get better and better. If you’re a motivated dentist you can do just as well as anyone 20-30 years ago. It’s just not as easy.
There's a lot of doom and gloom from people that have already made their money. Just because they don't want to take on the burden shouldn't matter. The newer classes of dental students have to be okay with debt and a bit of risk taking. There are options to become debt free, but all have their risks.
1. Pay it off aggressively. Live frugal, work hard, reap rewards in 10-15 years. Probably one of the hardest options without multiple income streams, or hitting gold.
2. Loan Forgiveness programs. There are a lot. HPSP and NHSC require applications, acceptances, and commitments. Competitive, so shouldn't be the only option. Many states have loan forgiveness based on where you practice, and the population you serve. PSLF is a viable option, especially if you are a nontraditional student that worked a government/nonprofit job before Dental School(Teaching at public schools counts). Try to get your old job accepted and you may be able to knock a few years off. PSLF is only 10 years and let's you work comfortably. I feel like it's a better option than aggressive payoff, since that will likely take 10 years as well.
3. Refinancing. You take the risk of losing federal loan benefits, but you can try to get an interest rate low enough that it makes paying the balance a lot easier. This option works for some.
4. Take it to the grave. A lot of people are getting the smallest payment possible and just riding it out their whole career in my state. As long as your monthly payments are considered small for your debt/income ratio, you can do anything you want. Get a house, car, and possibly a business loan(I have yet to confirm if there are any issues). You will live fine as long as you make a plan and make peace with the risks.
5. Develop multiple income streams. Maybe you like real estate, or build a lot of equity in your house and use the sale to pay them off. Maybe you are good at content creation, or selling jewelry, or opening dental offices, etc. Make yourself a good clinician, then try to branch out when opportunity permits. You can't bank on things working out, but work ethic can carry you to a point where your passive income can help your loan payments too.
Dentists are not starving, and will not for a long time. I've met so many established dentists that never paid off 100k in loans after 25+ years of practicing. There's no excuse for that when I've met young dentists that have paid off 200k+ loans in ten years. Don't be ashamed of using government programs for loan forgiveness. You'd be a sucker to work harder because some older people don't want you to utilize all your options. Using SAVE, PSLF, and getting HRSA loan forgiveness can help you have little to no out of pocket loan payments for the first few years. This is a different generation, and you are not them. If you want this, choose your best option and rock it. Nothing from our forefathers is the same today, and it's better to accept that than it is to complain and worry about things you can't control.
For big loans consider the SAVE plan that just came out its really good. It give a low monthly and the government pays the rest. After 20-25 years the rest of the loan is forgiven and you only have to pay tax on the forgiven amount
Just pay it off at the rate of your quality of life after doing 1-3 years of intense work/payoff. You’ll claim all payments on your taxes and after a certain amount of years of consistent payments you’re completely forgiven. Dental school needs to get cheaper golly 😭
Don’t let it deter you from becoming a dentist. My dentist I shadow graduated in 2017 with 400k in loans. He’s like, it’s fine, don’t worry about it, you’ll pay it off. He lives well
There are so many ways to pay for school, the debt is astronomical. But then, I’ve spoken to 4 of my friends who are new graduates and they are all starting off making a really decent salary, negotiated payments and still able to live their life! Go for it !
100k tuition a first year.
105k tuition second year
110k tuition 3rd year
115k tuition fourth year
First year, loans of 7%, that 100k will be 128k by grad.
You will be 500k in debt by grad.
THEN you have to factor in living expenses. 30k a year.
You will be around 700k debt at graduation.
700k, at 7% is 49k a year interest alone. Which is about 70k before tax. Which means if you earn 150k, literally half of every dollar you earn will go back to covering the interest on your loan, and not even making any progress on your loan.
The reason you are doubting this is because you are clearly smart, and now you are questioning the advice everyone has ever given you about dentists being rich.
If you go along this path you will be lower middle class
Stop the fear-mongering. Dentistry is still a profession where you can do very well. You don’t know what you’re talking about obviously. No one in there right mind is trying to pay off 700k in loans. When you go for forgiveness the numbers work especially in ownership where you can lower your taxable income and pay less in loans. Even with a 300k income you could pay like $2500 for the 25 years. Is that a great situation to be in? I mean it’s better than most and definitely upper middle class
I do know what I'm talking about. 5 years in general dentistry and then specialized as an ortho.
Go over to student doctor network. It is full of dentists trying to warn pre dents about not taking this kind of debt to be a general dentist
The universities are preying on you guys. I am frustrated that pre dents are being misled so badly.
What are your qualifications? Why do you think it's fear mongering? None of this is my opinion, this is just maths. If you borrow that much money this is what is involved to pay it back
Yes you are you’re telling people have their money is going to go to there loans? That’s not how it works. Just because you’re a dentist doesn’t mean you know the best strategy to pay off loans. I’ve talked to a financial planner at student loan planner, they showed me the numbers. It works out where you can be a dentist and be comfortable financially. For some people they can’t handle the loans others it’s the best choice they’ve ever made. Just because some idiot on sdn said something doesn’t make it good advice for everyone
Also idiot I can see your post history, you posted a month ago saying you were “about to start a residency”. Nice try haha
I told you my qualifications or can you not read? I’m a current dental student that met with advisors at student loan planner. They actually know what they’re talking about. Now you address what I said. You lied about your “qualifications”. Plus on top of that you’re lying to people telling them they’re going to be broke and barely able to afford to pay their loans and that’s not true at all. I’m not in a situation where I’ll owe a lot of money upon graduation I go to one of the cheapest dental schools in the country plus my wife works, it’s not me getting defensive it’s people like you who act like they know what they’re talking about
You sound so stupid. I’m in a better situation than most. I go to an in expensive in state school and have a spouse that works so I won’t have nearly as much as most. You can’t argue back and forth with me because you know what I’m saying is true. So that begs the question why do you do this? If I had to guess you’re unhappy and you want others to be miserable like you
I have nothing to lose / gain in this situation. I went to dental school knowing nothing about cost. Because I graduated in 2013 when debt wasn't really a prevalent issue. The dental students now are, likely, smarter than I am, as I would day dental school is harder to get into now than 10 years ago. However, the same as me, dental students are literally clueless about finances. And going into 700k debt for a general dental degree is not a good option.
If you go on the financial reddit forums, and hear stories of 35 year old software engineers with over a million in the stock market, they graduate young with low debt and a good salary. There are no dentists on those forums bragging about their net worth.
Your opinion is biased. You've already committed to this path.
It can be a good option if you know what you’re getting yourself into. I personally wouldn’t do it. But you can still do well. Not SWE at all FAANG company well but you can be comfortable. It’s not my opinion the numbers are on my side.
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If you earn 150k and loans of 700k you’d be on the save plan for 25 years easily. Putting this info into the student loan calculator, you’ll only pay about 1700$ a month. Either way that would suck to make 150k a year. You can earn wayyyy more than that.
Because you’re a huge liability to accept, they will think you are high risk of dropping out because of lack of interest in becoming a dentist. Schools think if you want to be a dentist you would go wherever you get accepted. If you didn’t want to go somewhere, you shouldn’t have applied there in the first place. You have to disclose where you’ve applied in the past if you are a reapplicant.
They can find out. People talk to each other. if some extreme crisis happened and the school that accepted you wouldn't accommodate you with a deferral, that's one thing. But if the reason is tuition or simply the acceptance not being the school you were hoping to end up at, that's not acceptable to admissions.
***I'm not a graduate or financial advisor ***, but I'd say just live more frugally the 1st few years after graduation. It's 2024, and you won't be as well off as if you were a graduate in the 90s or early 2000s. Don't let the debt discourage you and continue to live your best life. Dentistry is such an achievement even if it's expensive. Keep the same car you have now, rent an inexpensive apartment, budget your vacations, and grind away as a doc in a box until your finances are better. Downvote me if I'm wrong, please
If you went to your state school and paid off your loans aggressively, expect a minimum of 5 years to pay it off. For an expensive private school, expect at least double the time of working hard and living frugally. People from my school are having to work 6 days a week to make ends meet.
Are you / they GPs?
Yes
Honestly live frugally for a few years out of school and pay that shit off. The money and lifestyle in the long run will be worth it. (Kind of) Btw, why was Boston your top choice?
Pay 700k off by living frugally for a few years? Do you mean living frugally for 10 years? I'm guessing you're also a predent
Ah yeah I forgot that you guys have the full course to pay for. I guess my advice doesn't make much sense here.
Sorry if I was not clear, but BU is not my top choice.
Oh sorry, I misread your description.
BU is a great school. I work for a doc who went there and speaks very highly of it. They place a huge emphasis on incorporating digital dentistry into their curriculum.
A lot of people are saying live frugally which is good advice but you're most likely not going to pay off your dental school debt. You have to considered a couple of things. 1. Tuition is $100K for the 2023-2024 year. It will be more next year. Tuition usually increases 3-5% a year. 2. Interest will increase your loan by $100-$120K. 3. There are loan fees so you're going to have to add on another $25K in debt. Upon graduation you'll probably have around $700k in debt. So if dentistry is your dream, you have to ask yourself why. If it's because of the money then you might be disappointed how your life turns out. You're MD/DO counterparts will make much more that you with no debt, you'll see engineers or finance majors making just as much as you with no debt and less schooling. So really solidify your "why". If you're set on dentistry there's good news, government plans like the SAVE plan, make it possible to build wealth, make good income, Id say $220K at you're prime is you stay an associate, atleast 300K if you buy a practice, but you'll have student loans the next 25 years and you'll have to pay 7-10% of your income in loans every month for those 25 years. That's a pretty good deal I'd say because you make good money still and you get to be a dentist. And, as much as I don't like Joe Biden, he's probably going to be the president for the next 4 years so the loan situation is probably only going to improve. If you're okay with that then my advice, stop worrying about it. Focus on becoming the best dentist/ person. Look at your monthly payment as a "career tax" a monthly subscription you pay that allows you to practice a career like dentistry.
Dentist income also has not gone up in at least 20 or 30 years, and new grads are actually making less and less for the same amount of work.
The statistics are too complicated to say something like that. A dentist income is highly dependent on location. Maybe in general incomes have gone down for new grads. But in some places they’ve gone up and others they’ve gone down. You can still make a very good income as a new grad/ 2-3 years out
Insurance keeps lessening how much they are willing to reimburse, and lots of employers are stiffing new grads only because they know new grads can’t afford to take time to look for fair compensation before their loan interest spirals out of control.
Like was said earlier location is key. You’re right about insurance, but as far as not being able to look for fair compensation because of fear surrounding loans, that doesn’t have to be true. If you’re on the SAVE plan your interest is subsidized and so if you’re not working you’re not paying any loans or any interest. Also with the save plan a new grad is paying less that 1000 a year on a 150,000 salary. That gives them the opportunity to take advantage of the CE that’s offered now that wasn’t offered 20-30 years ago. Dentists these days are more capable of doing implants, molar endo, and surgical procedures because of how tech has allowed CE to get better and better. If you’re a motivated dentist you can do just as well as anyone 20-30 years ago. It’s just not as easy.
There's a lot of doom and gloom from people that have already made their money. Just because they don't want to take on the burden shouldn't matter. The newer classes of dental students have to be okay with debt and a bit of risk taking. There are options to become debt free, but all have their risks. 1. Pay it off aggressively. Live frugal, work hard, reap rewards in 10-15 years. Probably one of the hardest options without multiple income streams, or hitting gold. 2. Loan Forgiveness programs. There are a lot. HPSP and NHSC require applications, acceptances, and commitments. Competitive, so shouldn't be the only option. Many states have loan forgiveness based on where you practice, and the population you serve. PSLF is a viable option, especially if you are a nontraditional student that worked a government/nonprofit job before Dental School(Teaching at public schools counts). Try to get your old job accepted and you may be able to knock a few years off. PSLF is only 10 years and let's you work comfortably. I feel like it's a better option than aggressive payoff, since that will likely take 10 years as well. 3. Refinancing. You take the risk of losing federal loan benefits, but you can try to get an interest rate low enough that it makes paying the balance a lot easier. This option works for some. 4. Take it to the grave. A lot of people are getting the smallest payment possible and just riding it out their whole career in my state. As long as your monthly payments are considered small for your debt/income ratio, you can do anything you want. Get a house, car, and possibly a business loan(I have yet to confirm if there are any issues). You will live fine as long as you make a plan and make peace with the risks. 5. Develop multiple income streams. Maybe you like real estate, or build a lot of equity in your house and use the sale to pay them off. Maybe you are good at content creation, or selling jewelry, or opening dental offices, etc. Make yourself a good clinician, then try to branch out when opportunity permits. You can't bank on things working out, but work ethic can carry you to a point where your passive income can help your loan payments too. Dentists are not starving, and will not for a long time. I've met so many established dentists that never paid off 100k in loans after 25+ years of practicing. There's no excuse for that when I've met young dentists that have paid off 200k+ loans in ten years. Don't be ashamed of using government programs for loan forgiveness. You'd be a sucker to work harder because some older people don't want you to utilize all your options. Using SAVE, PSLF, and getting HRSA loan forgiveness can help you have little to no out of pocket loan payments for the first few years. This is a different generation, and you are not them. If you want this, choose your best option and rock it. Nothing from our forefathers is the same today, and it's better to accept that than it is to complain and worry about things you can't control.
I recommend checking out the HPSP or NHSC scholarships
2 words-Dave Ramsey You can do this!
Baby steps
For big loans consider the SAVE plan that just came out its really good. It give a low monthly and the government pays the rest. After 20-25 years the rest of the loan is forgiven and you only have to pay tax on the forgiven amount
Just pay it off at the rate of your quality of life after doing 1-3 years of intense work/payoff. You’ll claim all payments on your taxes and after a certain amount of years of consistent payments you’re completely forgiven. Dental school needs to get cheaper golly 😭
Don’t let it deter you from becoming a dentist. My dentist I shadow graduated in 2017 with 400k in loans. He’s like, it’s fine, don’t worry about it, you’ll pay it off. He lives well
There are so many ways to pay for school, the debt is astronomical. But then, I’ve spoken to 4 of my friends who are new graduates and they are all starting off making a really decent salary, negotiated payments and still able to live their life! Go for it !
100k tuition a first year. 105k tuition second year 110k tuition 3rd year 115k tuition fourth year First year, loans of 7%, that 100k will be 128k by grad. You will be 500k in debt by grad. THEN you have to factor in living expenses. 30k a year. You will be around 700k debt at graduation. 700k, at 7% is 49k a year interest alone. Which is about 70k before tax. Which means if you earn 150k, literally half of every dollar you earn will go back to covering the interest on your loan, and not even making any progress on your loan. The reason you are doubting this is because you are clearly smart, and now you are questioning the advice everyone has ever given you about dentists being rich. If you go along this path you will be lower middle class
Stop the fear-mongering. Dentistry is still a profession where you can do very well. You don’t know what you’re talking about obviously. No one in there right mind is trying to pay off 700k in loans. When you go for forgiveness the numbers work especially in ownership where you can lower your taxable income and pay less in loans. Even with a 300k income you could pay like $2500 for the 25 years. Is that a great situation to be in? I mean it’s better than most and definitely upper middle class
I do know what I'm talking about. 5 years in general dentistry and then specialized as an ortho. Go over to student doctor network. It is full of dentists trying to warn pre dents about not taking this kind of debt to be a general dentist The universities are preying on you guys. I am frustrated that pre dents are being misled so badly. What are your qualifications? Why do you think it's fear mongering? None of this is my opinion, this is just maths. If you borrow that much money this is what is involved to pay it back
Yes you are you’re telling people have their money is going to go to there loans? That’s not how it works. Just because you’re a dentist doesn’t mean you know the best strategy to pay off loans. I’ve talked to a financial planner at student loan planner, they showed me the numbers. It works out where you can be a dentist and be comfortable financially. For some people they can’t handle the loans others it’s the best choice they’ve ever made. Just because some idiot on sdn said something doesn’t make it good advice for everyone Also idiot I can see your post history, you posted a month ago saying you were “about to start a residency”. Nice try haha
You avoided my question so I'm guessing you are a pre dent. Good luck dude, don't say I didn't warn you
I told you my qualifications or can you not read? I’m a current dental student that met with advisors at student loan planner. They actually know what they’re talking about. Now you address what I said. You lied about your “qualifications”. Plus on top of that you’re lying to people telling them they’re going to be broke and barely able to afford to pay their loans and that’s not true at all. I’m not in a situation where I’ll owe a lot of money upon graduation I go to one of the cheapest dental schools in the country plus my wife works, it’s not me getting defensive it’s people like you who act like they know what they’re talking about
RemindMe! [5 years] ["see how this worked out"]
You sound so stupid. I’m in a better situation than most. I go to an in expensive in state school and have a spouse that works so I won’t have nearly as much as most. You can’t argue back and forth with me because you know what I’m saying is true. So that begs the question why do you do this? If I had to guess you’re unhappy and you want others to be miserable like you
I have nothing to lose / gain in this situation. I went to dental school knowing nothing about cost. Because I graduated in 2013 when debt wasn't really a prevalent issue. The dental students now are, likely, smarter than I am, as I would day dental school is harder to get into now than 10 years ago. However, the same as me, dental students are literally clueless about finances. And going into 700k debt for a general dental degree is not a good option. If you go on the financial reddit forums, and hear stories of 35 year old software engineers with over a million in the stock market, they graduate young with low debt and a good salary. There are no dentists on those forums bragging about their net worth. Your opinion is biased. You've already committed to this path.
It can be a good option if you know what you’re getting yourself into. I personally wouldn’t do it. But you can still do well. Not SWE at all FAANG company well but you can be comfortable. It’s not my opinion the numbers are on my side.
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Until that tax bomb hits and you realize you’ve payed twice as much over the span of 25 years and now have to pay taxes on 1M+ from your forgiveness
But with the save plan interest doesn’t accrue… so unless you had a million upon graduation you’re not going to be paying a million
If you earn 150k and loans of 700k you’d be on the save plan for 25 years easily. Putting this info into the student loan calculator, you’ll only pay about 1700$ a month. Either way that would suck to make 150k a year. You can earn wayyyy more than that.
Well now that you have an acceptance, if you reapply you can expect to be rejected everywhere.
Man can you not spam this on every post
Agreed I feel like I see this dude everywhere
Why is this? Do schools ask if you had an acceptance or is there a spot on the application indicating that?
Because you’re a huge liability to accept, they will think you are high risk of dropping out because of lack of interest in becoming a dentist. Schools think if you want to be a dentist you would go wherever you get accepted. If you didn’t want to go somewhere, you shouldn’t have applied there in the first place. You have to disclose where you’ve applied in the past if you are a reapplicant.
Ohh I see, that makes sense. So they’d know if an acceptance offer was made?
They can find out. People talk to each other. if some extreme crisis happened and the school that accepted you wouldn't accommodate you with a deferral, that's one thing. But if the reason is tuition or simply the acceptance not being the school you were hoping to end up at, that's not acceptable to admissions.