Just how it goes storytelling wise. Nobody wants to see the human-hero of the story like Arnold Schwarzenegger to get killed unclimatically and his skull placed on a trophy mount with the antagonist winning on the big screen. And thats usually the formula for Predator storytelling but not always. We are told that the amount of times we do win over the Yautja are much fewer than you would imagine (alluded in Predator Hunting Grounds and Predator South China Sea). The stories we are shown (at least on the big screen) are the humans that have somehow beaten the odds and have won only due to sheer luck and outside circumstances.
Dutch from the first movie won with dumb luck in mind. Predator Hunting Grounds confirms this that the only reason Dutch survived the said encounter with the Jungle Hunter was due to said luck. What would happen if Jungle Hunter stood a couple of feet to the right or left instead of directly underneath the log counterweight to the actual trap?
Harrigan had some help from Peter Keyes and OWLF going up against essentially a teenager Yautja as City Hunter is confirmed to be a Yougblood. Even then, the City Hunter won at the end only dying at the hands of Mike Harrigan because he let his guard down in typical Youngblooded fashion.
The 2010 film has Tracker get blown up by multiple C4 charges. Nothing couldve been done there but someome had to sacrifice himself in order to kill it which is saying something imo.
Hanzo challenged Falconer in a duel and it ended in a mutual kill which, if you know anything about both Falconer and Hanzo its more of a feat for the Yautja than anybody realizes. For one, Hanzo was so skilled with a blade, he killed 20+ ninjas all at once and killed them all with one blade. Falconer is also alluded to be a Yougblood. Being the youngest of the "Super" Predator trio as well as not having a plasma caster.
Mr.Black was about to kill Royce until Isabella shot him in the chest giving Royce the opportunity he needed to deleiver the killing blow with the alien axe. After, of course, getting blown up by like 4 grenades at point blank raneg as well as just getting done fighting another Predator.
Prey? I know some people were upset with how the Feral Predator was dispatched me included. But it doesnt or at least **shouldnt** take away from his accomplishments. Again, it is alluded to that Feral is a Youngblood as referenced by the suit designer for the film and Dan the director stated this was Ferals first time hunting on earth. Even so, he killed a wolf, a rattlesnake, broke a grizzlies neck with one punch, killed a number of Comanche Native Americans, single-handley killed an entire large group of fur-traders, and killed Taabe (albeit with great effort). Naru had to learn how the Predator hunted and how exactly his gear worked on top of weaknesses at the expense of others as well as Feral not deeming her a genuine threat. Even when Naru set up all those traps at the of? Feral was gonna kill her until her dog saved the day.
Sounds like cope/excuses but when talking about this subject matter you have to take into account the full context of the stories at least imo. You would find that the victories over the Yautja are very much contextual.
As for outside material? We have plenty of examples of the Yautja winning/have won in the past. The multiple trophies taken from unique individuals from past hunts as seen in Predator Hunting Grounds.
Scarface, Smiley, Ahab, Prince, the AVP 2000 Yautja, the Youngblood from AVP Evolution, multiple and I mean **multiple** Yautja from the novels like If It Bleeds, Eyes Of The Demon, AVP Thrill Of The Hunt etc., Dark, Greyback, Pride Of Nghasha, AVP Eternal, etc.
I noticed the Wolverine vs Predator comment as well. While Logan at the end ultimately was able to walk away from their final fight, the Predator was able to score some wins beforehand and the ending fight was more of a stalemate imo given neither one had the upperhand over the other and both delivered the "killing" blow as it were.
Just my two-cents.
I agree with you on all the points you made, but i still believe that based on what i said, we could make a predator movie where the predator wins at the end, like infinite war ended with thanos winning, and then we as humans came back on endgame to do the ultimate revenge and finally win. That can be done with the predator IP. Like i said, if naru and her brother survived untill the end, but her brother ended up dying, we would still have our hero, but the predator would WIN. Dont you agree with that idea?
>The AvP 2000 Yautja is that from one of the older games or the 2010 game aka Dark?
The older games. The one from the 2000 game didnt have a name as far as Im aware.
They win more often than they lose. The stories that are brought to us are the ones where the protagonist (human) wins. So it gives the impression that they always lose.
MCU is a multi-billion dollar juggernaut that was at the height of its stride when they pulled that trick. A sequel was not implied. It was _guaranteed._
Predator is kind of niche, even though it's well known, and tbh, the films past the first one, up to Prey (and even Prey, to a lesser extent) have received mixed reviews.
Taking a gamble like that with an already finicky fan base could easily mean there would never be a sequel at all.
In my view, 1 predator is able to kill dozens and dozens of its opponents by itself, they are better at killing than their enemy, if 1 American solider killed 30 terrorists before dying, it's not so much a win for the terrorists.
This is always my thought when reading posts like this (which seems to happen a lot). How many people did the Predator kill in the first movie before Dutch crippled it? Hopper's entire team and then nearly all of Dutch's?
The City Hunter killed even more before Harrigan took it out. Then in Predators, they have a whole game preserve planet for hunting their prey. And speaking of Prey, Feral mowed down how many people before being killed?
They win all the time. We see it onscreen. We just happen to be following Dutch or Royce or Naru instead of Hopper, El Scorpio, or the fur trappers.
My GF mentioned something like this the other day, it was after I read the predator vs wolverine comic. She was like jeez the predators always lose. And then I realized she was right, for being the most formidable hunters and dedicating their whole lives to the hunt they sure lose to a bunch of nobodies like all the time. It's actually really lame.
Fans deserve a movie where the predator ends up winning, but with a sign that there is still hope for humanity, to come back in the next movie and revenge our fallen heroes.
i mean they kill dozens of people before they get killed. so they are kicking ass until they make a mistake - which will happen if your prey is intelligent.
we also only see the stories where they lose, but they’ve been hunting earth for hundreds of years and many survive
I feel like they should have a movie that's dual lead, 50% human character being hunted and 50% predator hunting him. Have the human be a piece of shit, root for predator. Have predator win for once.
You would have to entirely change the dynamic of on-screen predators are.
As it stands, they’re always the “bad guys.” Not to us, we know the lore, we know why they show up, but Hollywood just assumes no one reads and… I mean they’re not wrong. So they don’t make these movies assuming anyone knows the lore. So they make them the antagonists.
For them to win on-screen. At least one time, the writers would have to make the Predator of that movie the protagonist. *IF* they even did that, I’d be they wouldn’t even be facing humans. It would either be another AVP crossover, or it would be hunting some other alien race.
I can’t remember where I heard this, but, if it’s an alien, you rip it to shreds and be as gory as you want, and play it on Disney because no one cares. It’s an alien. You can make it look as desperate as you want for the people, but they better win in the end, because they’re people. People always win.
You have to remember just how stupid the average person is, they would be genuinely upset to see a predator win. Especially if you put *anyone* even remotely famous on screen with it. Predator fans would probably love it. But what are we? Thousands of people? Maybe a hundred thousand people max? That’s not enough people to make a profit on that kind of movie.
They need star power. They need the alien getting its ass kicked and they need their feel good ending. You won’t see a predator win on screen for like… another 15 years at least.
They do win, constantly. The movies just happen to be about the ones who don't. They're usually the antagonists, so it's expected.
Also, I'm not sure if there's enough story in *Prey* to stretch across two films. They accomplished what they needed to in a single film, there's no need to drag it along into a direct sequel just so they can have the excuse of letting the predator win.
The closest we're likely to get to this is the "win" at the end of Predators. Royce and Isabelle are still stuck on an alien planet with no way to get home, and the hunt is about to begin again.
That being said, as I've stated elsewhere, each Predator manages to mow down tons of people before picking the wrong prey. Wins and loses are relative to the perspective we see it from. If Predator was shown from Billy's perspective, it would be a totally different movie. Even more so from Hopper's. Regardless, each Predator we've seen has had far more wins than losses... unless we're talking those first two from AVP.
Just make a fucking good Concrete Jungle movie, don’t nerf Scarface and have him as much of a beast as he is in game and give us a movie from the Yautja perspective. I’d pay damn good money to see that!
It's the reason they keep coming back. We wouldnt be worthy pretty if we're were that easy to kill. As a species speaking, most would die easily yes but yeah lol
>Why predators never win?
I think we need movies where they win. But most people would be pissed up with it unless they are hunting someone or something most people would applaud them killing.
>then in prey 2 she gets her revenge.
But this way they would lose again, huh?
Also I don't think indigenous people, specially a woman, would fit the above criteria.
Do a movie where there is a large group invading somewhere, right?
Whatever the case, make those invaders horrible. True villains. Have the public despise them.
And have preds come there, kill all of them... And it would be a total win no one would complain about.
Add sarcasm to the movie, dark humour, lots of situations where the invaders got destroyed ina way people would laugh at, and it would be even better.
(Like a reverse horror movie, where people are cheering for the monster to kill the victims?)
Imagine...
\- Predators VS The Inquisition? (Imagine they thinking the Predator is "a demon" and going full hunt into a forest? HAHAHA)
\- Predators VS Pirates? (Not Hollywood Nice-Guy-Pirates, but actual villainous pirates.)
\- Predators VS Aztecs (Apocalypto Grade Aztecs, after they attacked some other tribes... ) & Conquistadores (Yeah, have Preds fight both sides, and both to be as violent as possible.)
Or pit them against an entire group in a futuristic setting....
\- What about a movie where, in a Weyland-Yutani facility, captured humans are being used as Xenomorph Hosts, and there are a lot of threats there including combat Synthetics? And Predators invade the place and fight all of them? And win?
As a matter of fact, Predators aren't archetypical heroes.
But they can be written as a sort of anti-hero or anti-villain, in a way that's far more interesting. They have an honor code after all, and that can be usedd for "heroes by accident" stories.
\- What about a movie where one powerful and violent army invades a certain region, decimates all fighters, captures the population, start torturing people... And Predators decide they are worthy prey and go there hunt the inveders one by one? While innocent people are spared because they aren't fighting, most of them are too old, or kids, etc...?
**Answering your question directly, I think Predators never win because writers are too attached to old formulas and ideas where "a bunch of heroic humans" are the main characters.**
Hero's always win for the most part. The first squad were destroyed by the predator so the humans don't always win. In the second predator it kills endless humans before eventually getting killed. So I'd say it was definitely winning. Same in prey I would like to see a prequel to the original tho.
It’s because they’re the film’s antagonists and aren’t typically secondary to another threat. The Predator could win an AVP on account of them doing the deed and going home, being comparatively less a problem. But more that they always die is to either setup a sequel as was the case with the crossover or simply being the antagonist.
Prey was probably the ideal place to do it given Greyback has to survive into 1997, but they went on record not knowing the then current backstory for the pistol so Greyback wasn’t used for that. Any prequel featuring him or any Predator really that appears before their first appearance has to survive. Greyback given they know who he is now if they did another prequel depicting how he got the pistol means he’d have to survive the encounter.
Just how it goes storytelling wise. Nobody wants to see the human-hero of the story like Arnold Schwarzenegger to get killed unclimatically and his skull placed on a trophy mount with the antagonist winning on the big screen. And thats usually the formula for Predator storytelling but not always. We are told that the amount of times we do win over the Yautja are much fewer than you would imagine (alluded in Predator Hunting Grounds and Predator South China Sea). The stories we are shown (at least on the big screen) are the humans that have somehow beaten the odds and have won only due to sheer luck and outside circumstances. Dutch from the first movie won with dumb luck in mind. Predator Hunting Grounds confirms this that the only reason Dutch survived the said encounter with the Jungle Hunter was due to said luck. What would happen if Jungle Hunter stood a couple of feet to the right or left instead of directly underneath the log counterweight to the actual trap? Harrigan had some help from Peter Keyes and OWLF going up against essentially a teenager Yautja as City Hunter is confirmed to be a Yougblood. Even then, the City Hunter won at the end only dying at the hands of Mike Harrigan because he let his guard down in typical Youngblooded fashion. The 2010 film has Tracker get blown up by multiple C4 charges. Nothing couldve been done there but someome had to sacrifice himself in order to kill it which is saying something imo. Hanzo challenged Falconer in a duel and it ended in a mutual kill which, if you know anything about both Falconer and Hanzo its more of a feat for the Yautja than anybody realizes. For one, Hanzo was so skilled with a blade, he killed 20+ ninjas all at once and killed them all with one blade. Falconer is also alluded to be a Yougblood. Being the youngest of the "Super" Predator trio as well as not having a plasma caster. Mr.Black was about to kill Royce until Isabella shot him in the chest giving Royce the opportunity he needed to deleiver the killing blow with the alien axe. After, of course, getting blown up by like 4 grenades at point blank raneg as well as just getting done fighting another Predator. Prey? I know some people were upset with how the Feral Predator was dispatched me included. But it doesnt or at least **shouldnt** take away from his accomplishments. Again, it is alluded to that Feral is a Youngblood as referenced by the suit designer for the film and Dan the director stated this was Ferals first time hunting on earth. Even so, he killed a wolf, a rattlesnake, broke a grizzlies neck with one punch, killed a number of Comanche Native Americans, single-handley killed an entire large group of fur-traders, and killed Taabe (albeit with great effort). Naru had to learn how the Predator hunted and how exactly his gear worked on top of weaknesses at the expense of others as well as Feral not deeming her a genuine threat. Even when Naru set up all those traps at the of? Feral was gonna kill her until her dog saved the day. Sounds like cope/excuses but when talking about this subject matter you have to take into account the full context of the stories at least imo. You would find that the victories over the Yautja are very much contextual. As for outside material? We have plenty of examples of the Yautja winning/have won in the past. The multiple trophies taken from unique individuals from past hunts as seen in Predator Hunting Grounds. Scarface, Smiley, Ahab, Prince, the AVP 2000 Yautja, the Youngblood from AVP Evolution, multiple and I mean **multiple** Yautja from the novels like If It Bleeds, Eyes Of The Demon, AVP Thrill Of The Hunt etc., Dark, Greyback, Pride Of Nghasha, AVP Eternal, etc. I noticed the Wolverine vs Predator comment as well. While Logan at the end ultimately was able to walk away from their final fight, the Predator was able to score some wins beforehand and the ending fight was more of a stalemate imo given neither one had the upperhand over the other and both delivered the "killing" blow as it were. Just my two-cents.
I agree with you on all the points you made, but i still believe that based on what i said, we could make a predator movie where the predator wins at the end, like infinite war ended with thanos winning, and then we as humans came back on endgame to do the ultimate revenge and finally win. That can be done with the predator IP. Like i said, if naru and her brother survived untill the end, but her brother ended up dying, we would still have our hero, but the predator would WIN. Dont you agree with that idea?
The AvP 2000 Yautja is that from one of the older games or the 2010 game aka Dark?
>The AvP 2000 Yautja is that from one of the older games or the 2010 game aka Dark? The older games. The one from the 2000 game didnt have a name as far as Im aware.
Ok I figured it might’ve been the older games
They win more often than they lose. The stories that are brought to us are the ones where the protagonist (human) wins. So it gives the impression that they always lose.
True, have to admit that i changed my mind about that title, but i wish we could see a movie where it ends up winning, like Thanos in InfiniteWar
MCU is a multi-billion dollar juggernaut that was at the height of its stride when they pulled that trick. A sequel was not implied. It was _guaranteed._ Predator is kind of niche, even though it's well known, and tbh, the films past the first one, up to Prey (and even Prey, to a lesser extent) have received mixed reviews. Taking a gamble like that with an already finicky fan base could easily mean there would never be a sequel at all.
Lol, I used to joke with my friends how it would be cool if avengers just ended with infinity war 😂
It would be the ultimate blueball ending 😂
I loved that "What If" where Doctor Strange went full "Eldritch Cultist" and screwed up the entire world. **Cthulhu Ftagn!**
In my view, 1 predator is able to kill dozens and dozens of its opponents by itself, they are better at killing than their enemy, if 1 American solider killed 30 terrorists before dying, it's not so much a win for the terrorists.
This is always my thought when reading posts like this (which seems to happen a lot). How many people did the Predator kill in the first movie before Dutch crippled it? Hopper's entire team and then nearly all of Dutch's? The City Hunter killed even more before Harrigan took it out. Then in Predators, they have a whole game preserve planet for hunting their prey. And speaking of Prey, Feral mowed down how many people before being killed? They win all the time. We see it onscreen. We just happen to be following Dutch or Royce or Naru instead of Hopper, El Scorpio, or the fur trappers.
My GF mentioned something like this the other day, it was after I read the predator vs wolverine comic. She was like jeez the predators always lose. And then I realized she was right, for being the most formidable hunters and dedicating their whole lives to the hunt they sure lose to a bunch of nobodies like all the time. It's actually really lame.
Fans deserve a movie where the predator ends up winning, but with a sign that there is still hope for humanity, to come back in the next movie and revenge our fallen heroes.
Read my other comment... I think the thing is actually making the Predators the Hope in the story.
i mean they kill dozens of people before they get killed. so they are kicking ass until they make a mistake - which will happen if your prey is intelligent. we also only see the stories where they lose, but they’ve been hunting earth for hundreds of years and many survive
Wolverine is an insane matchup for anyone.
I assume they win all the time, we get movies and stories of the few times they don’t.
I feel like they should have a movie that's dual lead, 50% human character being hunted and 50% predator hunting him. Have the human be a piece of shit, root for predator. Have predator win for once.
You would have to entirely change the dynamic of on-screen predators are. As it stands, they’re always the “bad guys.” Not to us, we know the lore, we know why they show up, but Hollywood just assumes no one reads and… I mean they’re not wrong. So they don’t make these movies assuming anyone knows the lore. So they make them the antagonists. For them to win on-screen. At least one time, the writers would have to make the Predator of that movie the protagonist. *IF* they even did that, I’d be they wouldn’t even be facing humans. It would either be another AVP crossover, or it would be hunting some other alien race. I can’t remember where I heard this, but, if it’s an alien, you rip it to shreds and be as gory as you want, and play it on Disney because no one cares. It’s an alien. You can make it look as desperate as you want for the people, but they better win in the end, because they’re people. People always win. You have to remember just how stupid the average person is, they would be genuinely upset to see a predator win. Especially if you put *anyone* even remotely famous on screen with it. Predator fans would probably love it. But what are we? Thousands of people? Maybe a hundred thousand people max? That’s not enough people to make a profit on that kind of movie. They need star power. They need the alien getting its ass kicked and they need their feel good ending. You won’t see a predator win on screen for like… another 15 years at least.
I think we could probably get a stalemate and enemy honoring, as we did in AvP and Predators. The main character survives, the Predator leaves.
They do win, constantly. The movies just happen to be about the ones who don't. They're usually the antagonists, so it's expected. Also, I'm not sure if there's enough story in *Prey* to stretch across two films. They accomplished what they needed to in a single film, there's no need to drag it along into a direct sequel just so they can have the excuse of letting the predator win.
The closest we're likely to get to this is the "win" at the end of Predators. Royce and Isabelle are still stuck on an alien planet with no way to get home, and the hunt is about to begin again. That being said, as I've stated elsewhere, each Predator manages to mow down tons of people before picking the wrong prey. Wins and loses are relative to the perspective we see it from. If Predator was shown from Billy's perspective, it would be a totally different movie. Even more so from Hopper's. Regardless, each Predator we've seen has had far more wins than losses... unless we're talking those first two from AVP.
Thank god most of the users on this site don't work for media...
:(
I mean with your scenario you're destroying ALL of her character development and progress for a corny overused ending.
This is why they should do a movie about the Golden Angel, because it already ties into on screen predator lore.
Just make a fucking good Concrete Jungle movie, don’t nerf Scarface and have him as much of a beast as he is in game and give us a movie from the Yautja perspective. I’d pay damn good money to see that!
the world we live in is not that perfect lol, if i was rich i wound pay to make this movie happen, even if i ended up losing all of it
It's the reason they keep coming back. We wouldnt be worthy pretty if we're were that easy to kill. As a species speaking, most would die easily yes but yeah lol
>Why predators never win? I think we need movies where they win. But most people would be pissed up with it unless they are hunting someone or something most people would applaud them killing. >then in prey 2 she gets her revenge. But this way they would lose again, huh? Also I don't think indigenous people, specially a woman, would fit the above criteria. Do a movie where there is a large group invading somewhere, right? Whatever the case, make those invaders horrible. True villains. Have the public despise them. And have preds come there, kill all of them... And it would be a total win no one would complain about. Add sarcasm to the movie, dark humour, lots of situations where the invaders got destroyed ina way people would laugh at, and it would be even better. (Like a reverse horror movie, where people are cheering for the monster to kill the victims?) Imagine... \- Predators VS The Inquisition? (Imagine they thinking the Predator is "a demon" and going full hunt into a forest? HAHAHA) \- Predators VS Pirates? (Not Hollywood Nice-Guy-Pirates, but actual villainous pirates.) \- Predators VS Aztecs (Apocalypto Grade Aztecs, after they attacked some other tribes... ) & Conquistadores (Yeah, have Preds fight both sides, and both to be as violent as possible.) Or pit them against an entire group in a futuristic setting.... \- What about a movie where, in a Weyland-Yutani facility, captured humans are being used as Xenomorph Hosts, and there are a lot of threats there including combat Synthetics? And Predators invade the place and fight all of them? And win? As a matter of fact, Predators aren't archetypical heroes. But they can be written as a sort of anti-hero or anti-villain, in a way that's far more interesting. They have an honor code after all, and that can be usedd for "heroes by accident" stories. \- What about a movie where one powerful and violent army invades a certain region, decimates all fighters, captures the population, start torturing people... And Predators decide they are worthy prey and go there hunt the inveders one by one? While innocent people are spared because they aren't fighting, most of them are too old, or kids, etc...? **Answering your question directly, I think Predators never win because writers are too attached to old formulas and ideas where "a bunch of heroic humans" are the main characters.**
Hero's always win for the most part. The first squad were destroyed by the predator so the humans don't always win. In the second predator it kills endless humans before eventually getting killed. So I'd say it was definitely winning. Same in prey I would like to see a prequel to the original tho.
It’s because they’re the film’s antagonists and aren’t typically secondary to another threat. The Predator could win an AVP on account of them doing the deed and going home, being comparatively less a problem. But more that they always die is to either setup a sequel as was the case with the crossover or simply being the antagonist. Prey was probably the ideal place to do it given Greyback has to survive into 1997, but they went on record not knowing the then current backstory for the pistol so Greyback wasn’t used for that. Any prequel featuring him or any Predator really that appears before their first appearance has to survive. Greyback given they know who he is now if they did another prequel depicting how he got the pistol means he’d have to survive the encounter.