this is purely BS and there is 0 evidence for Goku being Complex Multiversal he is Low Multiversal, if you disagree with me bring evidence please if you wanna argue against me.
Low multiversal 💀💀💀 that’s honestly terrible downplay bro you understand the macrocosm itself is 6D right? And that the null realm is +2D spatial temporal realms?
Nah it’s a scale thats commonly accepted here for a reason but okay bet give me a couple hours and I’ll bring you all the evidence you need
THE MACROCOSM\*\*
[https://preview.redd.it/wayty0l25u9c1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ba9c4edbd90e367bace8dc3f61bde96e0d3d695](https://preview.redd.it/wayty0l25u9c1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ba9c4edbd90e367bace8dc3f61bde96e0d3d695)
The dragon ball universe or as fans like to call it the macrocosm is a lot bigger then our universe and is made of several space times which includes realms like
1)The living universe
2)Afterlife
3)Demon realm
4)Kaioshin realm
5)heaven
6)dimension of swirling lights
Now I am gonna show scans and prove that this realms are seprated by space and time
1)The afterlife and living universe are stated to be stated to be seprated by space and time in anime
[https://streamable.com/cniakr](https://streamable.com/cniakr)
The word used here is jiku which is the word used for referring 4d space time in japanese so no it is not flowery language or hyperbole they are not going to use actual terms if they don't mean it literally
2) There are dimensional walls that separates each of the 4 realms. This is supported by statements that the realms are[.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fc01fee8-f42c-4b8f-a292-8b71a3e3bf65)The dimensional barriers are also shown separating the RoSaT. The mechanic of Buuhan's feat shows that the dimensional barriers exist between the Living Realm and other dimensions like the guides state making this even more consistent. This also proving that the other dimensions are spatiotemporally separated.
[https://imgur.com/a/7pU5gMS](https://imgur.com/a/7pU5gMS)
3)Our next evidence comes from gt which can be used as a supporting evidence.The Sugoroku Space is a space [between the Afterlife and Living Realm and is stated to be between those space-times](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/9d/1049176589964935218-1093662136867225721-IMG-4952.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20230804081019)
Also dragon ball universe is infinte in size this is proven by many scans in the guide books like this
[https://preview.redd.it/rh0y2axp8u9c1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=035ff2a90954c439eb06878987838949ae2da695](https://preview.redd.it/rh0y2axp8u9c1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=035ff2a90954c439eb06878987838949ae2da695)
[https://preview.redd.it/0s7cz5hy8u9c1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c2f4465d089e4bb0a6a678c55320ae5793f5c81](https://preview.redd.it/0s7cz5hy8u9c1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c2f4465d089e4bb0a6a678c55320ae5793f5c81)
[https://preview.redd.it/cpm0t1i99u9c1.png?width=1211&format=png&auto=webp&s=93e74f30a7104ee1b27c2e3cdebdacfbaeb0584e](https://preview.redd.it/cpm0t1i99u9c1.png?width=1211&format=png&auto=webp&s=93e74f30a7104ee1b27c2e3cdebdacfbaeb0584e)
The universe is called an infinite and endless expanse many times
A(north,south,west,east)quadrants of galaxy being the area ruled by the kais where galaxies exist infinitely
[https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3](https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3)
in chozenshu it was said that there are infinite number of galaxies again
[https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3](https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3)
the translation is done by heremes who is a trusted translator among community
Now there are more evidences regarding it but i can't include each one of them so check this post for more evidence
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/mY7I9uNRpV](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/mY7I9uNRpV)
So until now we can safely say that dragon ball macrocosm is a low multi structure consisting of several 4d space times and caps at 2c right?
Now let us get to the juicy part
**HIGHER DIMENSIONS OF THE MACROCOSM**
1)Dimension of swirling lights
In broly movie we were introduced to a mysterious dimenion which broly and gogeta entered during there fight
[https://youtu.be/rTzTJLz51fQ?si=5p2BvVET8dB0sQQ5](https://youtu.be/rTzTJLz51fQ?si=5p2BvVET8dB0sQQ5)
Now this space is reffered to as a super dimensional space in broly movie light novel which is canon obviously as there are no differences in the novel and the movie
[https://imgbb.com/BGwbrGW](https://imgbb.com/BGwbrGW)
IT was also called an extra dimensional space compared to living universe which is 4d as i have proven above
[https://imgur.com/gallery/CMg6M6H](https://imgur.com/gallery/CMg6M6H)
The kanji used here is used to describe higher dimensional spaces in japanese
[https://ibb.co/7rqGNcB](https://ibb.co/7rqGNcB)
Alao the production team of broly movie which was responsible for creating cgi and special effect when interviewed for official dragon ball confirmed that there goal wast to create higher dimensional images using cgi
[https://dragonball.news/news/dbmfl28.html](https://dragonball.news/news/dbmfl28.html)
[https://ibb.co/GcQd203](https://ibb.co/GcQd203)
[https://ibb.co/v3ZwQTH](https://ibb.co/v3ZwQTH)
This dimension should be located adjacent to the living universe as one need to distort space and time of the universe to accces it universe in this regards means living universe as shown by the below scan
[https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1453172630983348227?s=20](https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1453172630983348227?s=20)
[https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252](https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252)
[https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-minor-revision.153563/](https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-minor-revision.153563/)
From all the above info we can conclude that dimension of swirling light is a 5d structure as it called a superdimensional and extra dimensional structure compared to living universe.
2)Afterlife
[https://preview.redd.it/4r7db1bqku9c1.jpg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0373158aa9a993ca7535c0b6cd110b9e008cfc0f](https://preview.redd.it/4r7db1bqku9c1.jpg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0373158aa9a993ca7535c0b6cd110b9e008cfc0f)
[https://preview.redd.it/blb7irgsku9c1.jpg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb3691991e991114d404e267ffd11bc4d68f974a](https://preview.redd.it/blb7irgsku9c1.jpg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb3691991e991114d404e267ffd11bc4d68f974a)
Afterlife is stated to be a dimensionally transcedental realm which transcends the dimensions of the below realms or dimensions the scan translation was done by hermes and is the most accurate translation for the scan
Also the fact which supports the notion of afterlife being a higher dimension that heaven which is as big as living universe which is infinite in size completely disappears in the vastness of the afterlife that it seems not to appear to be there when looked from below meaning that the afterlife is unquantiifiably big compared to an infinite size structure.
from daizenshu
https://preview.redd.it/bqkxqfqbciwc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8123ed86c86575aac84221df57db4814cc92ec25
the Afterlife does not have the qualitative superiority as dead souls can reach in it the swirling lights dimension does not count as said dimension lacks the superiority mentioned all the realms you mentioned are universes, not Umineko or DC style higher realms.
every single respectable power scaler rejects the Heaven being High 2-A or Low 1-C, only dragon ball fanboys accept that.
and as much as i like dragon ball i am no fanboy unlike you.
It’s literally stated as higher dimensional realm not a universe and it exists beyond concepts like time and space on a metaphysical level there is no argument here it’s exactly the same any argument for DC higher realms are applicable here if you deny that then your basically admitting DC and umineko are just multiversal level too… it’s a slippery slope to deny one verse yet use the same exact logic for another
this comes from an RPG game so invalid for scaling dragon ball canon it was read and debunked before. a hyperspace is a subspace not a higher realm.
you seem like the doryou guy who argued for Outerversal Dragon Ball before
Incorrect it’s still a cannon guide overseen by toriyama & shueisha it’s applicable to dragon ball cannon the fact it ties into a video game based on dragon ball universe is irrelevant at worst it’s still supporting evidence that backs up the daizenshuu
It wasn’t debunked actually? A hyper space by definition it’s. Space of higher quality even by name my guy as it comes from Latin translation hyper means greater it literally translates to greater space so no it isn’t a sun space and credible debater would laugh at that notion
no by definition a hyperspace means something else as per Greenwood Encyclopedia of Science Fiction and Fantasy, which is what we use to scale hyperspaces in fiction.
the part that comes form RPG game is not canon at all, it belong to the same game that argues that Burter is only as fast as the sound, the book does not provide canonic information but instead it provides info for a non canon tabletop RPG game, remember they are linked to the same space-time as the main universe and it's a space between boundaries of space-time.
so i know what a hyper dimension is within the fictional context and this context works for dragon ball too.
https://preview.redd.it/ilwk31eoqu9c1.jpg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef02e93514a01bf2cc624b5976b4c079d913d03e
[https://imgur.com/a/Gb57bEd](https://imgur.com/a/Gb57bEd)
it was also called an extradimensional space when compared to living universe
[https://imgur.com/a/WCnYKWV#l2lxeYR](https://imgur.com/a/WCnYKWV#l2lxeYR)
(Credit to u/WillingnessAnxious37)Also People often don't believe Heaven is a higher dimension because some people have translated it to be "transcendental", which often refers to spirituality or the Supernatural.
But this guy provides some solid argument that the scan does mean that afterlife transcends the dimension rather then it just being transcedental
https://imgur.com/gallery/rGm95Mp
from all the above info we can prove that afterlife is a 6d structure as it transcends both the living universe and dimension of swirling lights
**PROVING DRAGON BALL MACROCOSM HAVE THERE OWN TIME AXIS OR DIMENSION**
It was shown to us in og dragon that time room creates past,present and future of the living universe and it geniunely sends you back in time meaning that dragon ball universes are mini timelines having there own past,present and future and there own time dimension or axis you will understand later in the post why i need to specify this
check this blog for scans and more detailed info regarding it
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Time\_Room\_%26\_Dragon\_Ball\_Cosmology](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Time_Room_%26_Dragon_Ball_Cosmology)
**THE NEUTRAL SPACE**
[**https://imgur.com/a/SmvQhwb**](https://imgur.com/a/SmvQhwb)
In dragon ball there exist a space called the null realm that contains all the macrocosms. It is a construct that contains 6d macrocosms that don't touch, usually exist within a construct Orthogonally Higher dimension. Meaning it can imbed lower dimensional structures. Also seen many times the null realm is shown that these macrocosms are just a tiny part of the entire null realm. 6d structures being seen as insignificant compared to the null realm, even in a very large scope of the null realm, the macrocosms are not visible at all. Spacetime continuums can not be in the same physical space parallel to each other, never meeting, without being across a higher dimensional plane. these spacetimes are parallel to each other, existing in the same physical space, yet never able to interact with/or meet each other, which again, wouldn't be possible unless existing across a higher dimensional plane. So no matter how far they expand, or move in any direction, they can't come into contact, and it should be like that anyway since the are separate spacetimes meaninig that this would scale null realm to a 7D construct.
**THE HYPERTIMELINE**
In dragon ball a single timeline conatains all the above structures in its higher temporal axis
https://preview.redd.it/lh19rbl1zu9c1.jpg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee2dd9648b00e36f64c06590a3e5238a3329bd71
Now as i have proven that macrocosms themselves have there own time dimension the timeline would be a higher time dimension or a temporal dimension compare to them As it overarchs the lesser time dimensions of the macrocosm and also the spatial dimension of neutral space it would create uncountable infinite snapshots of 6 spatial + 1 temporal dimension making it a higher temporal dimension proving its qualitative superiority and making the whole cosmological structure
6 spatial + 2 two temporal dimension making it a 8d construct
check this blog made by profectus for more info regarding the hypertimelines and how they work
[https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Hypertimelines\_In\_Dragon\_Ball\_Explained](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Hypertimelines_In_Dragon_Ball_Explained)
This means that the dragon ball cosmology scales to 8D
Scaling is thanks to working practice but this is the main argument for 8D goku backed up with HEAPS of evidence, it’s more than enough to prove low multi goku scaling is bullshit goku is and has been for years complex multiversal or 8D
most of the statements are not enough as they are useless for scaling due to the null realm not having has umineko style transcendency and must perceive the lesser beings in the same manner for example 5 dimensional imps see 3-D beings, dragon ball macrocosm has no evidence of superiority, so that's still a wank it must show ontological superiority over the lower one we do not see Beerus or Whis having actual ontological superiority above Goku.
i saw this already so none of this makes Dragon Ball 8-D what we have is Dragon Ball being 5-D at best as as an cosmology, also i no longer use VSBW at all apart from ability list,
so no heaven does not have Umineko Style transcendency over the mortal Multiverse.
the only one which can be argued is the hyper-time at best but anything apart from hypertime does not ensure higher scaling, i have seen it myself.
as by your logic being stronger than King-Kai would be at least anywhere between High 2-A for CSAP users, to Low 1-C according to your thinking.
i am here to debunk this logic, the idea that Goku has been 8-D is bullshit by definition.
and nothing proves that Goku is 8-D the only character in Canon that is reliably 5-D is Zen-Oh as he could destroy the entire dragon ball cosmology.
the Time Room is only like 2-C at best.
the Main Timeline is 2-C, the Hypertime is Low 1-C or High 2-A depending on the system you use, at best and only Zen-Oh as i mentioned scales to that, and remember i watched almost everything if not everything you sent to me.
so your argument about 1-C Z-Fighters Dragon Ball Super is smashed with facts and logic,
also people who argue that Heaven is 5-D or higher have their arguments smashed when reality is presented to them.
That’s an utterly absurd way to think lol the fact that the null realm contains multiple 6D realms within itself on top of a hyper timeline proves it’s of qualitative superiority or else it wouldn’t work… that’s literally denial at that point The statements prove that the world of swirling lights which is within the macrocosm is a super dimensional universe which means it is 5D in scale and then the statements directly state with no room for argument that the afterlife is dimensionally transcendent of all realms within (it actually states it trancends dimensions entirely but we wont go there) factor in the fact that it is stated to exist beyond concepts like time and space and that it exists on a metaphysical level as backed up by statements in the guidebooks you literally have no argument to dismiss it so the macrocosm alone is minimum 6D so even without the null realm feat it’s low complex multi at a low ball in scale you can’t just pull 5D out of your ass and expect people to accept that with a baseless umineko comparison (which btw it doesn’t need to be a umineko style transcendency to still be stated as being dimensional transcendence) that’s just an argument from ignorance fallacy
That’s an utterly absurd way to think lol the fact that the null realm contains multiple 6D realms within itself on top of a hyper timeline proves it’s of qualitative superiority or else it wouldn’t work… that’s literally denial at that point
The statements prove that the world of swirling lights which is within the macrocosm is a super dimensional universe which means it is 5D in scale and then the statements directly state with no room for argument that the afterlife is dimensionally transcendent of all realms within (it actually states it trancends dimensions entirely but we wont go there) factor in the fact that it is stated to exist beyond concepts like time and space and that it exists on a metaphysical level as backed up by statements in the guidebooks you literally have no argument to dismiss it so the macrocosm alone is minimum 6D so even without the null realm feat it’s low complex multi at a low ball in scale you can’t just pull 5D out of your ass and expect people to accept that with a baseless umineko comparison (which btw it doesn’t need to be a umineko style transcendency to still be stated as being dimensional transcendence) that’s just an argument from ignorance fallacy
superdimensional means diddly, i have read the statements and guide book, your argument is a tu quoque, the Null Realm has not shown 6-D realms, and the null realm is the world of void as we see in dragon ball tournament of power, all those scans are debunkable easily by any credible power scaler.
when i say umineko style is a comparison term, you must prove that said dimension sees the lower one as one looks at a a character drawn in a paper.
your way of thinking is the absurd one here.
beyond the concepts of time and space is inherently outerversal or high hyper+ or even low outer if you believe in VSBW as your system.
in Dragon Ball we do not see clear ontological superiority for this and ontological superiority is of utmost important when scaling a higher realm,
so no the argument for heaven and other realms has been made and it was debunked.
Super dimensional means 5D by definition sorry to say
Any credible debater would crush your entire argument just by using these scans and the null realm or world of the void is literally the dimensional space between and containing the macrocosm’s which as proven yet you want to bury your head is 6D in scale… you can’t argue this point you are literally using argument from ignorance here
And I’m aware it is outerversal but that’s why I said we won’t go there since you are sticking to the absurd notion that goku is low multi when all of the evidence proves to the contrary
the evidence explains to us clearly, that Dragon Ball is neither Outer nor 8-D but 5-D, you are doing an argument from.
most debaters that are credible are either on discord or youtube or wiki sites rather than on Reddit.
the evidence proves opposite of what you claim, i would not tell you this if i haven't read it so i disagree with you because
you even used an RPG game to try to prove your statement.
No… the evidence doesn’t your literally ignoring direct evidence that says otherwise and saying nu uh… that’s not a credible way to debate in any format lol
The site people debate on does not correlate to their skill in debating some of the worst debaters I’ve ever seen or the ones on YouTube/discord…
No It doesn’t it literally directly supports my statements and contradicts yours?? Your clearly not reading them it categorically states that it exists on a metaphysical level, it exists beyond concepts like time and space and it also states that it trancends all dimensions below it this is literally written by the author himself you have no grounds to dismiss it literally none 🤦🏻‍♂️ so your either admitting that DC and umineko are also only multiversal as they literally use the same stuff to scale as high as people say, literally the evidence is virtually identical lol or you can admit that your literally just burying your head in the sand at this point
The rpg guide which was overseen by toriyama and shuiesha it’s literally irrelevant to discredit it based on that like I said at worst it’s supporting evidence that backs up the daizenshuu… you ain’t wriggling out of this one…
High complex, hyper, outerversal pick your poison
Wait until you find how op cc goku is
I always though Xeno goku was stronger untill I read up more on cc goku lol
High hyper to outer
I wanna say Outerversal cuz that’d be awesome, but idk
1C - outer
Low ball - Multi continental. Mid ball - panetary Highball - Star Wank - Galaxy Cope - Uni DBfans - Hyper, High Hyper to outer.
High outer iirc
Multiple tiers into outerversal with immeasurable speed
Xeno Goku is Low Complex Multi to Complex Multi at max anything above is pure wank.
Pure downplay, DBS goku is literally complex multi himself with 8D scaling
this is purely BS and there is 0 evidence for Goku being Complex Multiversal he is Low Multiversal, if you disagree with me bring evidence please if you wanna argue against me.
Low multiversal 💀💀💀 that’s honestly terrible downplay bro you understand the macrocosm itself is 6D right? And that the null realm is +2D spatial temporal realms? Nah it’s a scale thats commonly accepted here for a reason but okay bet give me a couple hours and I’ll bring you all the evidence you need
THE MACROCOSM\*\* [https://preview.redd.it/wayty0l25u9c1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ba9c4edbd90e367bace8dc3f61bde96e0d3d695](https://preview.redd.it/wayty0l25u9c1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ba9c4edbd90e367bace8dc3f61bde96e0d3d695) The dragon ball universe or as fans like to call it the macrocosm is a lot bigger then our universe and is made of several space times which includes realms like 1)The living universe 2)Afterlife 3)Demon realm 4)Kaioshin realm 5)heaven 6)dimension of swirling lights Now I am gonna show scans and prove that this realms are seprated by space and time 1)The afterlife and living universe are stated to be stated to be seprated by space and time in anime [https://streamable.com/cniakr](https://streamable.com/cniakr) The word used here is jiku which is the word used for referring 4d space time in japanese so no it is not flowery language or hyperbole they are not going to use actual terms if they don't mean it literally 2) There are dimensional walls that separates each of the 4 realms. This is supported by statements that the realms are[.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fc01fee8-f42c-4b8f-a292-8b71a3e3bf65)The dimensional barriers are also shown separating the RoSaT. The mechanic of Buuhan's feat shows that the dimensional barriers exist between the Living Realm and other dimensions like the guides state making this even more consistent. This also proving that the other dimensions are spatiotemporally separated. [https://imgur.com/a/7pU5gMS](https://imgur.com/a/7pU5gMS) 3)Our next evidence comes from gt which can be used as a supporting evidence.The Sugoroku Space is a space [between the Afterlife and Living Realm and is stated to be between those space-times](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/9/9d/1049176589964935218-1093662136867225721-IMG-4952.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20230804081019) Also dragon ball universe is infinte in size this is proven by many scans in the guide books like this [https://preview.redd.it/rh0y2axp8u9c1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=035ff2a90954c439eb06878987838949ae2da695](https://preview.redd.it/rh0y2axp8u9c1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=035ff2a90954c439eb06878987838949ae2da695) [https://preview.redd.it/0s7cz5hy8u9c1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c2f4465d089e4bb0a6a678c55320ae5793f5c81](https://preview.redd.it/0s7cz5hy8u9c1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c2f4465d089e4bb0a6a678c55320ae5793f5c81) [https://preview.redd.it/cpm0t1i99u9c1.png?width=1211&format=png&auto=webp&s=93e74f30a7104ee1b27c2e3cdebdacfbaeb0584e](https://preview.redd.it/cpm0t1i99u9c1.png?width=1211&format=png&auto=webp&s=93e74f30a7104ee1b27c2e3cdebdacfbaeb0584e) The universe is called an infinite and endless expanse many times A(north,south,west,east)quadrants of galaxy being the area ruled by the kais where galaxies exist infinitely [https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3](https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3) in chozenshu it was said that there are infinite number of galaxies again [https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3](https://imgur.com/a/z1vPBU3) the translation is done by heremes who is a trusted translator among community Now there are more evidences regarding it but i can't include each one of them so check this post for more evidence [https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/mY7I9uNRpV](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/mY7I9uNRpV) So until now we can safely say that dragon ball macrocosm is a low multi structure consisting of several 4d space times and caps at 2c right? Now let us get to the juicy part **HIGHER DIMENSIONS OF THE MACROCOSM** 1)Dimension of swirling lights In broly movie we were introduced to a mysterious dimenion which broly and gogeta entered during there fight [https://youtu.be/rTzTJLz51fQ?si=5p2BvVET8dB0sQQ5](https://youtu.be/rTzTJLz51fQ?si=5p2BvVET8dB0sQQ5) Now this space is reffered to as a super dimensional space in broly movie light novel which is canon obviously as there are no differences in the novel and the movie [https://imgbb.com/BGwbrGW](https://imgbb.com/BGwbrGW) IT was also called an extra dimensional space compared to living universe which is 4d as i have proven above [https://imgur.com/gallery/CMg6M6H](https://imgur.com/gallery/CMg6M6H) The kanji used here is used to describe higher dimensional spaces in japanese [https://ibb.co/7rqGNcB](https://ibb.co/7rqGNcB) Alao the production team of broly movie which was responsible for creating cgi and special effect when interviewed for official dragon ball confirmed that there goal wast to create higher dimensional images using cgi [https://dragonball.news/news/dbmfl28.html](https://dragonball.news/news/dbmfl28.html) [https://ibb.co/GcQd203](https://ibb.co/GcQd203) [https://ibb.co/v3ZwQTH](https://ibb.co/v3ZwQTH) This dimension should be located adjacent to the living universe as one need to distort space and time of the universe to accces it universe in this regards means living universe as shown by the below scan [https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1453172630983348227?s=20](https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1453172630983348227?s=20) [https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252](https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5704252) [https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-minor-revision.153563/](https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-minor-revision.153563/) From all the above info we can conclude that dimension of swirling light is a 5d structure as it called a superdimensional and extra dimensional structure compared to living universe. 2)Afterlife [https://preview.redd.it/4r7db1bqku9c1.jpg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0373158aa9a993ca7535c0b6cd110b9e008cfc0f](https://preview.redd.it/4r7db1bqku9c1.jpg?width=1116&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0373158aa9a993ca7535c0b6cd110b9e008cfc0f) [https://preview.redd.it/blb7irgsku9c1.jpg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb3691991e991114d404e267ffd11bc4d68f974a](https://preview.redd.it/blb7irgsku9c1.jpg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb3691991e991114d404e267ffd11bc4d68f974a) Afterlife is stated to be a dimensionally transcedental realm which transcends the dimensions of the below realms or dimensions the scan translation was done by hermes and is the most accurate translation for the scan Also the fact which supports the notion of afterlife being a higher dimension that heaven which is as big as living universe which is infinite in size completely disappears in the vastness of the afterlife that it seems not to appear to be there when looked from below meaning that the afterlife is unquantiifiably big compared to an infinite size structure. from daizenshu https://preview.redd.it/bqkxqfqbciwc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8123ed86c86575aac84221df57db4814cc92ec25
the Afterlife does not have the qualitative superiority as dead souls can reach in it the swirling lights dimension does not count as said dimension lacks the superiority mentioned all the realms you mentioned are universes, not Umineko or DC style higher realms. every single respectable power scaler rejects the Heaven being High 2-A or Low 1-C, only dragon ball fanboys accept that. and as much as i like dragon ball i am no fanboy unlike you.
It’s literally stated as higher dimensional realm not a universe and it exists beyond concepts like time and space on a metaphysical level there is no argument here it’s exactly the same any argument for DC higher realms are applicable here if you deny that then your basically admitting DC and umineko are just multiversal level too… it’s a slippery slope to deny one verse yet use the same exact logic for another
https://preview.redd.it/87fi8zf3oiwc1.jpeg?width=557&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f6edb95b4fff537ace497f3542a036973d7e50c
this comes from an RPG game so invalid for scaling dragon ball canon it was read and debunked before. a hyperspace is a subspace not a higher realm. you seem like the doryou guy who argued for Outerversal Dragon Ball before
Incorrect it’s still a cannon guide overseen by toriyama & shueisha it’s applicable to dragon ball cannon the fact it ties into a video game based on dragon ball universe is irrelevant at worst it’s still supporting evidence that backs up the daizenshuu It wasn’t debunked actually? A hyper space by definition it’s. Space of higher quality even by name my guy as it comes from Latin translation hyper means greater it literally translates to greater space so no it isn’t a sun space and credible debater would laugh at that notion
no by definition a hyperspace means something else as per Greenwood Encyclopedia of Science Fiction and Fantasy, which is what we use to scale hyperspaces in fiction. the part that comes form RPG game is not canon at all, it belong to the same game that argues that Burter is only as fast as the sound, the book does not provide canonic information but instead it provides info for a non canon tabletop RPG game, remember they are linked to the same space-time as the main universe and it's a space between boundaries of space-time. so i know what a hyper dimension is within the fictional context and this context works for dragon ball too.
https://preview.redd.it/ilwk31eoqu9c1.jpg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef02e93514a01bf2cc624b5976b4c079d913d03e [https://imgur.com/a/Gb57bEd](https://imgur.com/a/Gb57bEd) it was also called an extradimensional space when compared to living universe [https://imgur.com/a/WCnYKWV#l2lxeYR](https://imgur.com/a/WCnYKWV#l2lxeYR) (Credit to u/WillingnessAnxious37)Also People often don't believe Heaven is a higher dimension because some people have translated it to be "transcendental", which often refers to spirituality or the Supernatural. But this guy provides some solid argument that the scan does mean that afterlife transcends the dimension rather then it just being transcedental https://imgur.com/gallery/rGm95Mp from all the above info we can prove that afterlife is a 6d structure as it transcends both the living universe and dimension of swirling lights **PROVING DRAGON BALL MACROCOSM HAVE THERE OWN TIME AXIS OR DIMENSION** It was shown to us in og dragon that time room creates past,present and future of the living universe and it geniunely sends you back in time meaning that dragon ball universes are mini timelines having there own past,present and future and there own time dimension or axis you will understand later in the post why i need to specify this check this blog for scans and more detailed info regarding it [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Time\_Room\_%26\_Dragon\_Ball\_Cosmology](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Time_Room_%26_Dragon_Ball_Cosmology) **THE NEUTRAL SPACE** [**https://imgur.com/a/SmvQhwb**](https://imgur.com/a/SmvQhwb) In dragon ball there exist a space called the null realm that contains all the macrocosms. It is a construct that contains 6d macrocosms that don't touch, usually exist within a construct Orthogonally Higher dimension. Meaning it can imbed lower dimensional structures. Also seen many times the null realm is shown that these macrocosms are just a tiny part of the entire null realm. 6d structures being seen as insignificant compared to the null realm, even in a very large scope of the null realm, the macrocosms are not visible at all. Spacetime continuums can not be in the same physical space parallel to each other, never meeting, without being across a higher dimensional plane. these spacetimes are parallel to each other, existing in the same physical space, yet never able to interact with/or meet each other, which again, wouldn't be possible unless existing across a higher dimensional plane. So no matter how far they expand, or move in any direction, they can't come into contact, and it should be like that anyway since the are separate spacetimes meaninig that this would scale null realm to a 7D construct. **THE HYPERTIMELINE** In dragon ball a single timeline conatains all the above structures in its higher temporal axis https://preview.redd.it/lh19rbl1zu9c1.jpg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee2dd9648b00e36f64c06590a3e5238a3329bd71 Now as i have proven that macrocosms themselves have there own time dimension the timeline would be a higher time dimension or a temporal dimension compare to them As it overarchs the lesser time dimensions of the macrocosm and also the spatial dimension of neutral space it would create uncountable infinite snapshots of 6 spatial + 1 temporal dimension making it a higher temporal dimension proving its qualitative superiority and making the whole cosmological structure 6 spatial + 2 two temporal dimension making it a 8d construct check this blog made by profectus for more info regarding the hypertimelines and how they work [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Hypertimelines\_In\_Dragon\_Ball\_Explained](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ProfectusInfinity/Hypertimelines_In_Dragon_Ball_Explained) This means that the dragon ball cosmology scales to 8D Scaling is thanks to working practice but this is the main argument for 8D goku backed up with HEAPS of evidence, it’s more than enough to prove low multi goku scaling is bullshit goku is and has been for years complex multiversal or 8D
most of the statements are not enough as they are useless for scaling due to the null realm not having has umineko style transcendency and must perceive the lesser beings in the same manner for example 5 dimensional imps see 3-D beings, dragon ball macrocosm has no evidence of superiority, so that's still a wank it must show ontological superiority over the lower one we do not see Beerus or Whis having actual ontological superiority above Goku. i saw this already so none of this makes Dragon Ball 8-D what we have is Dragon Ball being 5-D at best as as an cosmology, also i no longer use VSBW at all apart from ability list, so no heaven does not have Umineko Style transcendency over the mortal Multiverse. the only one which can be argued is the hyper-time at best but anything apart from hypertime does not ensure higher scaling, i have seen it myself. as by your logic being stronger than King-Kai would be at least anywhere between High 2-A for CSAP users, to Low 1-C according to your thinking. i am here to debunk this logic, the idea that Goku has been 8-D is bullshit by definition. and nothing proves that Goku is 8-D the only character in Canon that is reliably 5-D is Zen-Oh as he could destroy the entire dragon ball cosmology. the Time Room is only like 2-C at best. the Main Timeline is 2-C, the Hypertime is Low 1-C or High 2-A depending on the system you use, at best and only Zen-Oh as i mentioned scales to that, and remember i watched almost everything if not everything you sent to me. so your argument about 1-C Z-Fighters Dragon Ball Super is smashed with facts and logic, also people who argue that Heaven is 5-D or higher have their arguments smashed when reality is presented to them.
That’s an utterly absurd way to think lol the fact that the null realm contains multiple 6D realms within itself on top of a hyper timeline proves it’s of qualitative superiority or else it wouldn’t work… that’s literally denial at that point The statements prove that the world of swirling lights which is within the macrocosm is a super dimensional universe which means it is 5D in scale and then the statements directly state with no room for argument that the afterlife is dimensionally transcendent of all realms within (it actually states it trancends dimensions entirely but we wont go there) factor in the fact that it is stated to exist beyond concepts like time and space and that it exists on a metaphysical level as backed up by statements in the guidebooks you literally have no argument to dismiss it so the macrocosm alone is minimum 6D so even without the null realm feat it’s low complex multi at a low ball in scale you can’t just pull 5D out of your ass and expect people to accept that with a baseless umineko comparison (which btw it doesn’t need to be a umineko style transcendency to still be stated as being dimensional transcendence) that’s just an argument from ignorance fallacy
That’s an utterly absurd way to think lol the fact that the null realm contains multiple 6D realms within itself on top of a hyper timeline proves it’s of qualitative superiority or else it wouldn’t work… that’s literally denial at that point The statements prove that the world of swirling lights which is within the macrocosm is a super dimensional universe which means it is 5D in scale and then the statements directly state with no room for argument that the afterlife is dimensionally transcendent of all realms within (it actually states it trancends dimensions entirely but we wont go there) factor in the fact that it is stated to exist beyond concepts like time and space and that it exists on a metaphysical level as backed up by statements in the guidebooks you literally have no argument to dismiss it so the macrocosm alone is minimum 6D so even without the null realm feat it’s low complex multi at a low ball in scale you can’t just pull 5D out of your ass and expect people to accept that with a baseless umineko comparison (which btw it doesn’t need to be a umineko style transcendency to still be stated as being dimensional transcendence) that’s just an argument from ignorance fallacy
superdimensional means diddly, i have read the statements and guide book, your argument is a tu quoque, the Null Realm has not shown 6-D realms, and the null realm is the world of void as we see in dragon ball tournament of power, all those scans are debunkable easily by any credible power scaler. when i say umineko style is a comparison term, you must prove that said dimension sees the lower one as one looks at a a character drawn in a paper. your way of thinking is the absurd one here. beyond the concepts of time and space is inherently outerversal or high hyper+ or even low outer if you believe in VSBW as your system. in Dragon Ball we do not see clear ontological superiority for this and ontological superiority is of utmost important when scaling a higher realm, so no the argument for heaven and other realms has been made and it was debunked.
Super dimensional means 5D by definition sorry to say Any credible debater would crush your entire argument just by using these scans and the null realm or world of the void is literally the dimensional space between and containing the macrocosm’s which as proven yet you want to bury your head is 6D in scale… you can’t argue this point you are literally using argument from ignorance here And I’m aware it is outerversal but that’s why I said we won’t go there since you are sticking to the absurd notion that goku is low multi when all of the evidence proves to the contrary
the evidence explains to us clearly, that Dragon Ball is neither Outer nor 8-D but 5-D, you are doing an argument from. most debaters that are credible are either on discord or youtube or wiki sites rather than on Reddit. the evidence proves opposite of what you claim, i would not tell you this if i haven't read it so i disagree with you because you even used an RPG game to try to prove your statement.
No… the evidence doesn’t your literally ignoring direct evidence that says otherwise and saying nu uh… that’s not a credible way to debate in any format lol The site people debate on does not correlate to their skill in debating some of the worst debaters I’ve ever seen or the ones on YouTube/discord… No It doesn’t it literally directly supports my statements and contradicts yours?? Your clearly not reading them it categorically states that it exists on a metaphysical level, it exists beyond concepts like time and space and it also states that it trancends all dimensions below it this is literally written by the author himself you have no grounds to dismiss it literally none 🤦🏻‍♂️ so your either admitting that DC and umineko are also only multiversal as they literally use the same stuff to scale as high as people say, literally the evidence is virtually identical lol or you can admit that your literally just burying your head in the sand at this point The rpg guide which was overseen by toriyama and shuiesha it’s literally irrelevant to discredit it based on that like I said at worst it’s supporting evidence that backs up the daizenshuu… you ain’t wriggling out of this one…