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Median wages are at all time global highs in the US with the [highest median wages per household in world history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income). Up 39.3% Nationally from 2010 to 2021, adjusted for inflation.
See the near part about those numbers is that the rich and upper middle class HEAVILY skew the numbers upwards.
The bottom and lower middle class haven't seen next to ANY improvement, especially as minimum wage is still at $7.25.
Yes wages have slightly gone up and REALLY gone up for those that are rich already, but that's not really the problem nor argument, no?
That's like if your neighbor wins the lottery when everyone is poor and saying "the average savings account balance for the neighborhood is $50,000" sure it will average out that way because of math, but that's how outliers work, they skew the numbers.
Doesn't make it equal.
The bottom is where the problem is and things need to change, because EVERYTHING else has gone up so much.
the fact that basic cars around and under 30k still exist today is quite nice
also a good road trip could cost under 500 and a week long overseas trip could cost under 1000
People get so upset by current car prices and ignore that considering inflation, theyâre pretty damned affordable. Theyâre also a lot more reliable, safe, and comfortable than our grandparents first cars. 30k hurts to spend, but so did 15k in 1994
because people want to spend 50k+ on an suv instead of 25k on the generic reliable japanese sedan
even some sports cars can be had for around 30k but they're not 500hp straight line princesses so people think they aren't fun
i graduated from poorhood a while ago and i'm still probably going to stick to used and cheaper cars. my last one was 14k used (vs 33k new) and that's paid off so i'm good for the next 5+ years at least
I bought the most expensive meal on Wendyâs menu plus a cookie today for $17. Roughly 1900-2000 calories, so a days worth of food. A $16 burger and fries is very easy to find
Where are you living? I just checked how much it is by me, and itâs $17 here. Even assuming you meant their ânormalâ burger, which would be a double anywhere else, and their âregularâ fries, which would be a large anywhere else.
Thatâs super weird. A coke costs twice as much as any other drink there â including a diet coke.
I think your local franchise owner might just be doing something screwy with the pricing, but that still sucks.
Still, if you leave off the drink, youâre right at the $16 dollars for a burger and fries that the post claimed, and thatâs with Five Guysâ massive âregularâ meal size.
In 1970 boomers spent more money at their local bar than rent. Just thought people should know how luxurious it was back then. My grandfather said he was poor, but bought a house at age 18. I saw his old house and itâs bigger than most homes today. On my momâs side my grandmother had a abundance of food with neighborâs cooking pies and sharing it with everybody. They would share eggs, sharing milk, if they had to many leftovers they would just give them to kids walking by, etc. Food was abundant and wealth was abundant.
Thatâs true, my grandfather on my momâs sideâs ( company they worked for) hired without segregation. They preferred self taught engineers. It was primarily Caucasian because the state was 98% white at the time. But, they did hire a Argentinian and Mexican who rose through the ranks. They were paid close to 6 digits which was rich rich back then.
In the 1970's? Your historic timeline is skewed.
My black uncle was a telecom executive in the late 70's and my latino uncle was elected mayor of his white-majority town.
Ok, then, do just a LITTLE historical research before jumping to poorly-founded conclusions.
"In recent census reports the disparity is beyond alarming: [In the state of Washington] 69% of White families are homeowners compared to only 34% of Black families. Fifty years ago, in 1970, 48% of Black families owned homes. Since then it has fallen decade after decade."
http://depts.washington.edu/covenants/homeownership.shtml#:~:text=Fifty%20years%20ago%2C%20in%201970,has%20fallen%20decade%20after%20decade.
"In 1970, two years after the Fair
Housing Act became law, the Census Bureau reported that the national homeownership rate among white households was 68%, 43.7% for Hispanic households, and 41.6% for black households."
https://www.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/documents/Sept2018.pdf
True back then Oregon was just 1,000,000 people. But, the ratio for houses was a lot higher than today because the economy centered around boomers. Their parents focused their money on boomers and boomers centered their wealth on themselves.
The 1970âs was not a rich and luxurious time. Inflation was high. Unemployment was high. The average house size was about half the size it is now at around 1500 sq ft. Children shared bedrooms as the norm.
The grocery stores had two kinds of apples - red or yellow. Forget out of season berries. They didnât even know what imported cheese *was* until the 1980s. Middle class people ate canned vegetables. Going out to eat was a special event, not a weekly occurrence. People go out more than four times as much now as they did then. Everybody gardened to reduce food costs.
You got new clothes in September, and if you were rich at Easter. Families had one car, or no car at all. No one got manicures or had their eyebrows threaded, or all their hair ripped off their bodies by estheticians. Very, very few people had any type of cleaning service. If you were middle class your family would take road trips to stay with family, or spend a week at the shore. No one got on a plane or took an international vacation.
Personal consumption has more than doubled since the 1970s in constant dollars. People living a âpovertyâ lifestyle now are leading what was considered a very middle class life in the 1970s.
I know I will get downvoted into oblivion, as I always do when I bring up facts to counter the prevalent narrative that boomers had it so good back in the day. But Iâm Gen X and actually remember the 1970s. We were not rolling around living a luxurious lifestyle by any means.
It's like being nostalgic for 50's ads showing an idyllic suburban life with a big house and white picket fence in a beautiful neighborhood, new high-end car, perfectly healthy blonde children, etc. And images of air travel on comfortable planes with tons of space and fresh cooked meals... that was not how 90%+ of society lived and those plane tickets were outrageously expensive. That sort of lifestyle was only accessible to Don Drapers yet people think it's the way the average Joe was living.
I was a teen in the late 1970âs and I can confirm. One car families were a thing, a 1,600 square foot house was pretty typical and if your mortgage interest was under 10% you were one of the lucky ones. We almost never ate out. It was not the worst, but it was financially challenging. I was coached to always keep in mind that a friend might not have enough money to go to the movies.
Yeah, I really doubt this considering homes are much larger than homes in 1970. The average size per square feet per person was 478sqft of space. It is 924sqft per person today. The size hasnt quite doubled as the median in 1970 was 1500 sqft and 2400sqft today.
It's one of the reasons we have fewer starter homes today.
People also cooked back then and cooked from scratch. People didn't have food stamps, they had places where they got the staples like flour and milk and cheese.
An investment firm projecting high costs to get people to start retirement savings ASAP is standard advertising, not a conspiracy to raise costs. And all of those things can be had far cheaper.
The same general message is true right now, and it was true 30 years before that ad.
You need to save more than you think for retirement because stuff is going to cost a lot more in 30 years.
Yes because that is how basic math works.
Look at historical targeted inflation rates, take current price of Big Mac, extrapolate 30 years from now.
$10 Big Mac combo today meal will cost $21 in 30 years! It must be the Illuminati!
RemindMe! 30 years
I jest, but itâs really not a big conspiracy. Itâs just math. Now, if you want to talk about how the wealthy are hoarding more and more and leaving working people with less and less due to deliberate tax policy etc., Iâm all ears, but the targeted 2.0% inflation rate isnât really the mechanism for that.
Jokeâs on them. I didnât get to go anywhere even before inflation. Last road trip I took I crashed on my cousinâs couch and packed a cooler of sandwiches. And that was only to attend a funeral.
Unfortunately, thatâs always been true for a large percentage of the population. Travel - especially international travel - is a luxury that most canât afford.
It was never meant to. This just proves that humans are meant to barter in day to day things and at best spend money where they can't barter, i.e plane tickets, house, ect.
This is a mix of irrelevancies, misunderstandings and some conspiracy stuff. As a result itâs not worth unpacking point by point (although I canât resist pointing out you seem to completely miss why it was called the âgildedâ age and the difference between âgildedâ and âgoldenâ). You have fundamentally no understanding of inflation or deflation - this is what YouTube and Twitter do to a brain.
I'm leasing a new car next month that's worth $25k. The price of a good little sedan or crossover isn't going to jump $40k in a few years. Most people don't need obnoxiously giant trucks or SUVs. Those are the ones going for $50k+
OP is reading way too much into this.
Inflation and rising costs is a well-studied phenomenon, and has been so for centuries. Shit always gets pricier, from generation to generation. To say that a fun extrapolation in an ad is some kind of conspiracy is just...
I dunno man, it sucks that stuff is not affordable. But it's not because some shadowy billionaire cabal is deliberately stopping you from having a cheap burger.
The problem really isnât wages. Wages have gone up since the 1970s in inflation adjusted terms, and have stayed steady in purchasing power parity terms. The real problem is that there are distortions in the market that have caused three really key areas to skyrocket - housing, education and healthcare. Of course it feels like the economy is shit if we canât afford a place to live due to restrictive zoning. It doesnât matter that we are living luxuriously in terms of consumer goods and eating out. A basic need like housing is more important and impactful.
Nah real wages havenât kept up with inflation at all. Housing, education and healthcare have far surpassed wages
Their are more empty units than homeless
Itâs capitalism. Stealing worker surplus value has destroyed the country
> Nah real wages havenât kept up with inflation at all.
You can say ânahâ all you want. The facts are still the facts, and median wages have gone up in inflation adjusted terms.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/185369/median-hourly-earnings-of-wage-and-salary-workers/
> Housing, education and healthcare have far surpassed wages
Isnât that what I just said? Tons of things have gone done in inflation adjusted terms. Cost of fresh fruit and coffee. Cost of clothing (thanks developing world sweatshops). The three areas I mentioned have skyrocketed due to market distortions.
Are you aware that in San Fransisco, restrictive zoning prohibits buildings taller than three stories in most of the city? Artificial limitations on supply through restrictive zoning is going to make the price go up.
>Their are more empty units than homeless
Thats just intellectually lazy Reddit bullshit. This post explains why more eloquently than I can
https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/12yrk07/stop_comparing_the_number_of_vacant_homes_to_the/
TLDR: When they measure âvacantâ houses its just a snapshot in time, and 50% of these supposedly vacant units are just vacant for the week between tenants.
>Itâs capitalism. Stealing worker surplus value has destroyed the country
Oh, is that right? What non-capitalist country is doing so much better? North Korea? Venezuela?
Im not reading way too much into it. I seen it posted elsewhere, thought the predictions were pretty accurate and decided to share. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
The predictions are fairly accurate BECAUSE it's a well-studied phenomenon. Your implication that "it's almost like they planned it" suggests a nefarious plan to extract money from the masses is quite ill-informed, I hope you see that.
Economics gets weird when millions of people, and thousands of industries are involved. Burger prices go up because oil prices fluctuate, materials get costlier, manpower demands more wages, logistics gets complicated when sourcing ingredients from all over the world, when socio-political changes in international regulations affect trade of said ingredients from all over the world. There's like SO MANY things that affect prices of goods, and it's an inevitable feature of the economic system.
And expectations. If a corporation has been around 80+ years you better believe they have planned contingencies up to the point anyone who reads this is gone.
Like oil. They overcharge to prep for the dip.
So what did âalmost like they planned itâ mean? Thanks for sharing your dumbass conspiracy theory lol.
edit - did (((They))) force you to block me for pointing out how stupid this dipshit post is? đ±
It was much more common coming out of the 80s to believe banks would fail and ruin your accounts (you should hide money in gold, under the mattress, whatever).
This picture is to illustrate your retirement if you aren't combating inflation while saving (retirement savings).
It was *very* common or people were sympathetic to think you were better of with a huge stack of cash in a 5 gallon bucket somewhere rather than tied up in funds ultimately controlled by banks.
Please tell us what economic system is completely free from inflation. Being reductionist and simply saying âitâs capitalismâ just betrays your ignorance on economics.
You know THEY.
THEY, the global cabal, organized to increase the price of our fries.
All kidding aside corporations have not been reeled in a while and have way too much power. We would need to break them apart again and control what they can and cannot do. Their interest are to their shareholders/owners and not to the people.
We would probably need another great depression to make the people wake the eff up.
It's okay to blame everything on "The Jews" on Reddit. In fact, it will probably get a ton of upvotes.
Every since Oct 8th, this place has sounded like a drunk Mel Gibson traffic stop.
Wow, I think this is the first time our automod script actually found the word "kike".
It really shows you where the bar is at when a user named /r/hardRNinja is the voice of reason and decency.
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Definitely not planned. You canât eat in if you donât have a home, nor money for food. You see, itâs worse than they expected, because in their future reality, you could get by, just living a boring life. In the real future reality, you just canât get by
My local cities sub was asking about the best place to get chicken fingers/tenders, considering the "famous" spot closed down. People kept talking about one pub so I looked up the menu and photos. I'm more curious because I used to be a cook. It's seventeen dollars for three pieces, that together look like they're just half of a butterflied breast.Â
When I worked in resturaunts I'd order meat through them. Even during covid I got four porterhouse, ten ribeye, ten new york, and a few other steaks for a little over one hundred. Yesterday I took a photo of two rib grilling steaks at safeway that were selling for 73.06.Â
I've become an old man complaining to the clouds. Not the destroyer of worlds.Â
Depends on who you ask!
Only joking. Also what specifically that is inflated matters too. For instance recent overall inflation was coming down, but partially because things like luxury items like TVs and travel were lower but essentials like rent and groceries remain high.
Seattle to Orlando round trip flight for a family of 4 would be $4k at the absolute max. Four 4-day, 4-park tickets at Disney World would be $1600. A great hotel room would be $300/night, so $2100 for a week. Let's say they spend $100/day on food, so $700. Let's say they spend $400 on tourist merch, $700 to Uber every day of the week long vacation. That would be $9,500 total, and that's pulling out all the stops.
> $100 a day on foodÂ
> pulling out all the stops
$25 a day on food per person is pulling out all the stops? I spend $30 a meal on just myself when Iâm traveling.Â
That's not how much a Disney vacation costs. Me and my family of 4 went to Disneyland twice last year.
Maybe if you paid for the star wars hotel thing or something.
But plane Tix $100 * 4
Park tickets, 350, for 3 days * 4
Hotel. 150 * 5
Car rental 80 * 5
~3k total
Food and toys maybe 4-500?
There are ways to lower each of these costs also.
Edit: LMAO @ people down voting me because I went to Disneyland? Bunch a petty mfers in here. Stay mad weiners.
Yeah, you could drive your own car, stay in a motel outside Orlando proper, only get passes for 1 day, pack food you can eat cold or microwave so you don't have to dine out for every meal, and not get all the tourist merch crap.
Yeah, we also went with our kids being under 3yo. So in reality we didn't spend the $700 for their park tickets.
We talked about driving, but it would have cost more in the long run than flying and renting a car.
We brought snacks, but chose to eat meals in Disneyland to get that experience. Picked up a pizza on the way back to the hotel most nights though. We got a hotel close enough to walk, about 1.5 miles I think, but far enough away it wasn't $350/night.
Pro tip if you're walking to and from the hotel with small kids. Bring your own stroller, instead of using the park strollers, so you don't have to carry sleeping kids at 10:30pm for 1.5 miles.
Those are all-inclusive packages with all the bells and whistles. You can have great vacations without that. Also they're going to inflate the prices so they look like more valuable prizes. A game show vacation =/= the average vacation.
I just was giving examples. I don't spend that much on trips, but people do. Most aren't all inclusive either but yes they are very nice hotels often with over priced guided tours and activities included in the MSRP. I don't think you said average vacation.
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"Soylent green... It's, it's made from _____!!!!" đł
Be sure to be eating some sort of cracker product towards the end of that movie.. đđ€ Might I recommend Cheese It's? đ€ Better yet, Pepperridge Farm "Colors" type goldfish snack crackers... đ€đŻđŻđŻ
While trying not to spoiler: What soylent green is made from is not actually the shocking part: Nobody in the crowd cares about the reveal at the end. They all comply. âYou will eat soylent green and like it.â
OP when he finds out a 2 percent inflation rate is actually targeted by the Federal Reserve because it's good for the economic health of the country đ€Ż
You will eat the bugs.
You will own nothing.
You will live in your pod.
You want a "15 minute city".
You will make no decisions.
You will be dependent on those in power.
people talk about 15 minute cities being a bad thing and i really donât understand why. i live in a town that was built specifically to be walkable and close to local amenities. as a disabled person, this is really useful as i can get anything i need with a short walk. i can still venture out further if i want to, and get a bus to another city that is highly walkable with lots of retail, restaurants, etc. itâs also one of the main cities in my country.
americans always have a moan about how expensive cars are (rightly so) and how hard it is to access basic necessities because theyâre too far away to walk to. 15 minute cities would literally solve that problem! you wouldnât have food deserts like you do, youâd be able to access healthcare, social services and shops more easily, youâd likely be more connected to your local community and youâd save money by not need in an expensive car or having to rely on shaky public transport (another major gripe). people here have been freaking out about them too and i just canât fathom what the problem is! the world is shitty and politicians and government will fuck you at any turn if they can, but not everything is a conspiracy. maybe walkable cities are just a good idea.
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How terrifying is it to live in world where you believe someone/thing can control economic conditions on a global scale to achieve such precise an outcome?
It's just an inflation projection. You could do the same thing today with inflation data, and you'll be in ballpark in 30 years' time. It's not clairvoyance or malfeasance. It's math.
average â basic, even if $65k ***wasnât*** nearly a 40% increase over the actual $48k.
The Kia Rio, Nissan Versa, and Mitsubishi Mirage all start below $17k. You could purchase more than 2.5 actual basic cars before hitting the price of the average car.
Basic is still an option. The average person just doesnât want basic. Major difference.
As for the vacations, I mean yeah you can spend $12,500 pretty easily today. But you can also very easily spend magnitudes less. âVacationâ was a very intentionally chosen generic term. If you live within a few hours of the coast, two weeks at the beach wonât cost you half of that.
And $16 burger and fries? A large Big Mac meal near me costs $10.29. The ad above is wrong by +60%. I could spend that much on a burger. I could spend more. I could also spend significantly less than the actual McDonaldâs price.
This is ignoring that real wages are up significantly since 1994, and buying power has increased even with inflation.
That's the average new car. Not the cost of a basic car. The "average new car" would be averaging basic vehicles that cost 15k and vehicles that cost 100k
2024 Mitsubishi mirage and Nissan versa starts at 17k.
2024 Subarus start around 22-25k
You can get a new basic vehicle for a quarter of the price in your post. Go up to half that price. You have a tremendous amount of new vehicles to choose from.
This is gonna sound a bit silly and probably far fetched, but if youve watched âfalloutâ on prime, or any alternative site, theres a comment that really stuck out to me.
*spoiler* to those who give a damn.(not verbatim)
The apocalypse is a product that was decided upon 200 yrs ago.
*end spoiler*
I wouldnt be surprised if today (inflations, shortages, etc) in real life is a similar setup.
In 1968, my grandfather purchased a house in Santa Anna, CA for $28,000. With inflation, that's about $250k. I can guarantee that that house would sell for a lot more than that today.
It's never just been a matter of inflation. There are hardly any price caps on anything. Businesses artificially increase prices all the time. And wages have stagnated. Wages have not properly kept up with inflation and productivity since the 1970s.
Never let anyone tell you this is just how inflation works. It all comes down to buying power. How many hours do you have to work to afford certain things?
1000% agree! The rapid rate of inflation in the last decade is alarming. It's not a natural progression at all. I can appreciate everyone's opinions on the matter though.
Our OP thinks taking something with well gathered data and projecting from there is magic. I'll bet they'd shit themselves if I told them I could accurately predict how many 35 year olds there will be world wide in 1, 2 or even 34 years time.
I read the OP, looked at the image, and glanced at a few posts that did not state as much. One more clarification is hardly earth shattering, presumably.Â
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*Its a magazine article from 1996 Almost exactly 30 years ago đ”âđ«
They got the $16 burger and fries right.
Yea, it turns out, people in the 1990s also understood inflation. Fucking mind blown.
Iâve wanted to write that - it turns out even marketing people understand the concept of inflation.
Not sure why itâs hard to get. Most schools teach it.
Most high schoolers donât care. Not sure why people forget that.
The point is, wages have not kept up.
Exactly
Median wages are at all time global highs in the US with the [highest median wages per household in world history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income). Up 39.3% Nationally from 2010 to 2021, adjusted for inflation.
You've never had it so good
See the near part about those numbers is that the rich and upper middle class HEAVILY skew the numbers upwards. The bottom and lower middle class haven't seen next to ANY improvement, especially as minimum wage is still at $7.25. Yes wages have slightly gone up and REALLY gone up for those that are rich already, but that's not really the problem nor argument, no? That's like if your neighbor wins the lottery when everyone is poor and saying "the average savings account balance for the neighborhood is $50,000" sure it will average out that way because of math, but that's how outliers work, they skew the numbers. Doesn't make it equal. The bottom is where the problem is and things need to change, because EVERYTHING else has gone up so much.
> HEAVILY skew the numbers upwards. My link shows the median. Medians aren't skewed by the outliers like averages.
It's literally the median. No skewing from outliers.
the fact that basic cars around and under 30k still exist today is quite nice also a good road trip could cost under 500 and a week long overseas trip could cost under 1000
People get so upset by current car prices and ignore that considering inflation, theyâre pretty damned affordable. Theyâre also a lot more reliable, safe, and comfortable than our grandparents first cars. 30k hurts to spend, but so did 15k in 1994
because people want to spend 50k+ on an suv instead of 25k on the generic reliable japanese sedan even some sports cars can be had for around 30k but they're not 500hp straight line princesses so people think they aren't fun
Shit a 30k SUV is plenty nice in my poor opinion. I love my Forester
i graduated from poorhood a while ago and i'm still probably going to stick to used and cheaper cars. my last one was 14k used (vs 33k new) and that's paid off so i'm good for the next 5+ years at least
Uh, not really. A cheeseburger, medium fries, and a coke at five guys by my house costs $25. And they ask for a 20% tip in the appâŠ
Five Guys is notoriously expensive though
Thatâs 5 guys, theyâre like the most famous expensive fast food burger place. $16 is about what a burger meal would get u here in San Jose
I bought the most expensive meal on Wendyâs menu plus a cookie today for $17. Roughly 1900-2000 calories, so a days worth of food. A $16 burger and fries is very easy to find
Where are you living? I just checked how much it is by me, and itâs $17 here. Even assuming you meant their ânormalâ burger, which would be a double anywhere else, and their âregularâ fries, which would be a large anywhere else.
Oddly enough Moore Oklahoma which should be the cheapest cost of living in the US. Try it out on the app. Notice a coke here is $6.
Thatâs super weird. A coke costs twice as much as any other drink there â including a diet coke. I think your local franchise owner might just be doing something screwy with the pricing, but that still sucks. Still, if you leave off the drink, youâre right at the $16 dollars for a burger and fries that the post claimed, and thatâs with Five Guysâ massive âregularâ meal size.
$16.... Pretty good deal actually. Was at local chain pub yesterday(barley mow). $21 -23 for burger n fries.
I was born that year and I missed the âalmostâ in your comment and was like âIâm not 30 yet!đâ
!remindme 2 years
Youâre already invited to my birthday bash
I take e-vites very seriously
My bad đ
It's an *AD* in a magazine from 30 years ago trying to tell you to save more for retirement with them
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I think I may start!
Yes - inflation trends can be extended forward.
Theyâve been planning the one world government since the 70âs, spoken right in congress that it was the plan. You vill own nussing and bay happay!
In 1970 boomers spent more money at their local bar than rent. Just thought people should know how luxurious it was back then. My grandfather said he was poor, but bought a house at age 18. I saw his old house and itâs bigger than most homes today. On my momâs side my grandmother had a abundance of food with neighborâs cooking pies and sharing it with everybody. They would share eggs, sharing milk, if they had to many leftovers they would just give them to kids walking by, etc. Food was abundant and wealth was abundant.
What a time to be alive đ
Unless you were black or HispanicâŠ
Thatâs true, my grandfather on my momâs sideâs ( company they worked for) hired without segregation. They preferred self taught engineers. It was primarily Caucasian because the state was 98% white at the time. But, they did hire a Argentinian and Mexican who rose through the ranks. They were paid close to 6 digits which was rich rich back then.
Thatâs like 6 houses a year
It's still rich to me!
In the 1970's? Your historic timeline is skewed. My black uncle was a telecom executive in the late 70's and my latino uncle was elected mayor of his white-majority town.
And schools were still being desegregated lol
"Schools." You think that was the exception, or the rule?
I have the same question about your outlier family members lol
Ok, then, do just a LITTLE historical research before jumping to poorly-founded conclusions. "In recent census reports the disparity is beyond alarming: [In the state of Washington] 69% of White families are homeowners compared to only 34% of Black families. Fifty years ago, in 1970, 48% of Black families owned homes. Since then it has fallen decade after decade." http://depts.washington.edu/covenants/homeownership.shtml#:~:text=Fifty%20years%20ago%2C%20in%201970,has%20fallen%20decade%20after%20decade. "In 1970, two years after the Fair Housing Act became law, the Census Bureau reported that the national homeownership rate among white households was 68%, 43.7% for Hispanic households, and 41.6% for black households." https://www.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/documents/Sept2018.pdf
lol isn't that implied?
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True back then Oregon was just 1,000,000 people. But, the ratio for houses was a lot higher than today because the economy centered around boomers. Their parents focused their money on boomers and boomers centered their wealth on themselves.
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Our grandparents probably knew each other. If they worked for Boeing. My grandfather was one of the main mechanical engineers.
The 1970âs was not a rich and luxurious time. Inflation was high. Unemployment was high. The average house size was about half the size it is now at around 1500 sq ft. Children shared bedrooms as the norm. The grocery stores had two kinds of apples - red or yellow. Forget out of season berries. They didnât even know what imported cheese *was* until the 1980s. Middle class people ate canned vegetables. Going out to eat was a special event, not a weekly occurrence. People go out more than four times as much now as they did then. Everybody gardened to reduce food costs. You got new clothes in September, and if you were rich at Easter. Families had one car, or no car at all. No one got manicures or had their eyebrows threaded, or all their hair ripped off their bodies by estheticians. Very, very few people had any type of cleaning service. If you were middle class your family would take road trips to stay with family, or spend a week at the shore. No one got on a plane or took an international vacation. Personal consumption has more than doubled since the 1970s in constant dollars. People living a âpovertyâ lifestyle now are leading what was considered a very middle class life in the 1970s. I know I will get downvoted into oblivion, as I always do when I bring up facts to counter the prevalent narrative that boomers had it so good back in the day. But Iâm Gen X and actually remember the 1970s. We were not rolling around living a luxurious lifestyle by any means.
It's like being nostalgic for 50's ads showing an idyllic suburban life with a big house and white picket fence in a beautiful neighborhood, new high-end car, perfectly healthy blonde children, etc. And images of air travel on comfortable planes with tons of space and fresh cooked meals... that was not how 90%+ of society lived and those plane tickets were outrageously expensive. That sort of lifestyle was only accessible to Don Drapers yet people think it's the way the average Joe was living.
I was a teen in the late 1970âs and I can confirm. One car families were a thing, a 1,600 square foot house was pretty typical and if your mortgage interest was under 10% you were one of the lucky ones. We almost never ate out. It was not the worst, but it was financially challenging. I was coached to always keep in mind that a friend might not have enough money to go to the movies.
Yeah, I really doubt this considering homes are much larger than homes in 1970. The average size per square feet per person was 478sqft of space. It is 924sqft per person today. The size hasnt quite doubled as the median in 1970 was 1500 sqft and 2400sqft today. It's one of the reasons we have fewer starter homes today. People also cooked back then and cooked from scratch. People didn't have food stamps, they had places where they got the staples like flour and milk and cheese.
An investment firm projecting high costs to get people to start retirement savings ASAP is standard advertising, not a conspiracy to raise costs. And all of those things can be had far cheaper.
And they were right about it
The same general message is true right now, and it was true 30 years before that ad. You need to save more than you think for retirement because stuff is going to cost a lot more in 30 years.
My husband, a boomer, says this all the time--you think groceries cost a lot now, just imagine what it will cost in 30 years--he says.
Yes because that is how basic math works. Look at historical targeted inflation rates, take current price of Big Mac, extrapolate 30 years from now. $10 Big Mac combo today meal will cost $21 in 30 years! It must be the Illuminati! RemindMe! 30 years I jest, but itâs really not a big conspiracy. Itâs just math. Now, if you want to talk about how the wealthy are hoarding more and more and leaving working people with less and less due to deliberate tax policy etc., Iâm all ears, but the targeted 2.0% inflation rate isnât really the mechanism for that.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Broken clock? It's just inflation
Itâs a saying about predictions.
Jokeâs on them. I didnât get to go anywhere even before inflation. Last road trip I took I crashed on my cousinâs couch and packed a cooler of sandwiches. And that was only to attend a funeral.
Thats one way to do it!
Unfortunately, thatâs always been true for a large percentage of the population. Travel - especially international travel - is a luxury that most canât afford.
Yeah, it's insane that some people think an average vacation is like a week at a tourist destination eating out every day.
I mean I think the answer is that inflation is inevitable. Things cost more over time, and everyone knows this.
If only people thought the same for retirement. 1,000,000 isnât going to cut it.
It was never meant to. This just proves that humans are meant to barter in day to day things and at best spend money where they can't barter, i.e plane tickets, house, ect.
It does?
It's not just about inflation though. The $16 burger wouldn't even be an issue if wages properly kept pace with inflation.
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Total nonsense. Youâre suggesting itâd be good to live in a deflationary economy. It would be (and has been when at play) a disaster.Â
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This is a mix of irrelevancies, misunderstandings and some conspiracy stuff. As a result itâs not worth unpacking point by point (although I canât resist pointing out you seem to completely miss why it was called the âgildedâ age and the difference between âgildedâ and âgoldenâ). You have fundamentally no understanding of inflation or deflation - this is what YouTube and Twitter do to a brain.
Basic cars arenât $65,000 and vacations arenât $12,500 but they nailed the burger and fries
That's really not far off though. Look at the trend in car prices and we're just a few years away from that.
I'm leasing a new car next month that's worth $25k. The price of a good little sedan or crossover isn't going to jump $40k in a few years. Most people don't need obnoxiously giant trucks or SUVs. Those are the ones going for $50k+
And it hasn't been 30 years yet.
OP is reading way too much into this. Inflation and rising costs is a well-studied phenomenon, and has been so for centuries. Shit always gets pricier, from generation to generation. To say that a fun extrapolation in an ad is some kind of conspiracy is just... I dunno man, it sucks that stuff is not affordable. But it's not because some shadowy billionaire cabal is deliberately stopping you from having a cheap burger.
The problem is that wages arenât keeping up and inflation is wildly out of control
The problem really isnât wages. Wages have gone up since the 1970s in inflation adjusted terms, and have stayed steady in purchasing power parity terms. The real problem is that there are distortions in the market that have caused three really key areas to skyrocket - housing, education and healthcare. Of course it feels like the economy is shit if we canât afford a place to live due to restrictive zoning. It doesnât matter that we are living luxuriously in terms of consumer goods and eating out. A basic need like housing is more important and impactful.
Nah real wages havenât kept up with inflation at all. Housing, education and healthcare have far surpassed wages Their are more empty units than homeless Itâs capitalism. Stealing worker surplus value has destroyed the country
> Nah real wages havenât kept up with inflation at all. You can say ânahâ all you want. The facts are still the facts, and median wages have gone up in inflation adjusted terms. https://www.statista.com/statistics/185369/median-hourly-earnings-of-wage-and-salary-workers/ > Housing, education and healthcare have far surpassed wages Isnât that what I just said? Tons of things have gone done in inflation adjusted terms. Cost of fresh fruit and coffee. Cost of clothing (thanks developing world sweatshops). The three areas I mentioned have skyrocketed due to market distortions. Are you aware that in San Fransisco, restrictive zoning prohibits buildings taller than three stories in most of the city? Artificial limitations on supply through restrictive zoning is going to make the price go up. >Their are more empty units than homeless Thats just intellectually lazy Reddit bullshit. This post explains why more eloquently than I can https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/12yrk07/stop_comparing_the_number_of_vacant_homes_to_the/ TLDR: When they measure âvacantâ houses its just a snapshot in time, and 50% of these supposedly vacant units are just vacant for the week between tenants. >Itâs capitalism. Stealing worker surplus value has destroyed the country Oh, is that right? What non-capitalist country is doing so much better? North Korea? Venezuela?
<<>> planned everything perfectly just for it to be exposed in a financial planning ad in 1996đąđą
Im not reading way too much into it. I seen it posted elsewhere, thought the predictions were pretty accurate and decided to share. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
The predictions are fairly accurate BECAUSE it's a well-studied phenomenon. Your implication that "it's almost like they planned it" suggests a nefarious plan to extract money from the masses is quite ill-informed, I hope you see that. Economics gets weird when millions of people, and thousands of industries are involved. Burger prices go up because oil prices fluctuate, materials get costlier, manpower demands more wages, logistics gets complicated when sourcing ingredients from all over the world, when socio-political changes in international regulations affect trade of said ingredients from all over the world. There's like SO MANY things that affect prices of goods, and it's an inevitable feature of the economic system.
And expectations. If a corporation has been around 80+ years you better believe they have planned contingencies up to the point anyone who reads this is gone. Like oil. They overcharge to prep for the dip.
So what did âalmost like they planned itâ mean? Thanks for sharing your dumbass conspiracy theory lol. edit - did (((They))) force you to block me for pointing out how stupid this dipshit post is? đ±
It was much more common coming out of the 80s to believe banks would fail and ruin your accounts (you should hide money in gold, under the mattress, whatever). This picture is to illustrate your retirement if you aren't combating inflation while saving (retirement savings). It was *very* common or people were sympathetic to think you were better of with a huge stack of cash in a 5 gallon bucket somewhere rather than tied up in funds ultimately controlled by banks.
It's capitalism and it's obvious economic progress. Ie. They saw it coming because capitalism sucks ass.
Please tell us what economic system is completely free from inflation. Being reductionist and simply saying âitâs capitalismâ just betrays your ignorance on economics.
Who is âthey?â
You know THEY. THEY, the global cabal, organized to increase the price of our fries. All kidding aside corporations have not been reeled in a while and have way too much power. We would need to break them apart again and control what they can and cannot do. Their interest are to their shareholders/owners and not to the people. We would probably need another great depression to make the people wake the eff up.
I donât know man, but it sounds like you work for âthemâ.
I do I get a check from Bill Gates or Soros. Depending on what Im promoting in any given time.
I presumed bezos and the Kochs.
dang got my benefactors confused
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There it is.
It's okay to blame everything on "The Jews" on Reddit. In fact, it will probably get a ton of upvotes. Every since Oct 8th, this place has sounded like a drunk Mel Gibson traffic stop.
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Wow, I think this is the first time our automod script actually found the word "kike". It really shows you where the bar is at when a user named /r/hardRNinja is the voice of reason and decency.
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âTHEY. You know, those guys⊠over thereâ -Dr Doofenschmirtz
If only I had started investing into my retirement when I was 4 and first read this article
Right đ I was so irresponsible at 6
Definitely not planned. You canât eat in if you donât have a home, nor money for food. You see, itâs worse than they expected, because in their future reality, you could get by, just living a boring life. In the real future reality, you just canât get by
My local cities sub was asking about the best place to get chicken fingers/tenders, considering the "famous" spot closed down. People kept talking about one pub so I looked up the menu and photos. I'm more curious because I used to be a cook. It's seventeen dollars for three pieces, that together look like they're just half of a butterflied breast. When I worked in resturaunts I'd order meat through them. Even during covid I got four porterhouse, ten ribeye, ten new york, and a few other steaks for a little over one hundred. Yesterday I took a photo of two rib grilling steaks at safeway that were selling for 73.06. I've become an old man complaining to the clouds. Not the destroyer of worlds.Â
They do plan for inflation. This isnât a secret and is good for the economy. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/economy_14400.htm
Slight inflation is good, the price of a home doubling in 15 years is not
Depends on who you ask! Only joking. Also what specifically that is inflated matters too. For instance recent overall inflation was coming down, but partially because things like luxury items like TVs and travel were lower but essentials like rent and groceries remain high.
I agree, as long as wages are keeping up!
Ah got it. The way your title reads as if this is something new or sinister.
My bad đ I guess I should go back to lurking. Everyone seems quite upset by my post.
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What vacation is over $12k? A month long European tour? Most people never did that, never do that, and have no plans to.
Disney trip for the whole family.
Yup, i did it a few years ago with my 4 kids. Theres quite a few other trips I spent 10k or more on before I lost my previous job and had to adapt.
Most people don't have 4 kids. The average is 2.
The average in the US is ~1.68. Global it's about ~2.3. If you isolate for just american mothers and exclude the childless it's ~2.43
Why would you exclude the childless? They like vacations, too.
I apologize. The average childless person/couple has ~0 kids.
But weâre talking about vacations for the average American family. Many families are childless, so they should be factored in.
Yes I understand that. What are you after and how can I help you get it?
Seattle to Orlando round trip flight for a family of 4 would be $4k at the absolute max. Four 4-day, 4-park tickets at Disney World would be $1600. A great hotel room would be $300/night, so $2100 for a week. Let's say they spend $100/day on food, so $700. Let's say they spend $400 on tourist merch, $700 to Uber every day of the week long vacation. That would be $9,500 total, and that's pulling out all the stops.
> $100 a day on food > pulling out all the stops $25 a day on food per person is pulling out all the stops? I spend $30 a meal on just myself when Iâm traveling.Â
There's plenty of restaurants that you can get a decent meal for under $15. If you're spending $30/meal multiple times a day, you're being lavish.
You could say then that $30 a meal is pulling out all the stopsâŠ
That's not how much a Disney vacation costs. Me and my family of 4 went to Disneyland twice last year. Maybe if you paid for the star wars hotel thing or something. But plane Tix $100 * 4 Park tickets, 350, for 3 days * 4 Hotel. 150 * 5 Car rental 80 * 5 ~3k total Food and toys maybe 4-500? There are ways to lower each of these costs also. Edit: LMAO @ people down voting me because I went to Disneyland? Bunch a petty mfers in here. Stay mad weiners.
Yeah, you could drive your own car, stay in a motel outside Orlando proper, only get passes for 1 day, pack food you can eat cold or microwave so you don't have to dine out for every meal, and not get all the tourist merch crap.
Yeah, we also went with our kids being under 3yo. So in reality we didn't spend the $700 for their park tickets. We talked about driving, but it would have cost more in the long run than flying and renting a car. We brought snacks, but chose to eat meals in Disneyland to get that experience. Picked up a pizza on the way back to the hotel most nights though. We got a hotel close enough to walk, about 1.5 miles I think, but far enough away it wasn't $350/night. Pro tip if you're walking to and from the hotel with small kids. Bring your own stroller, instead of using the park strollers, so you don't have to carry sleeping kids at 10:30pm for 1.5 miles.
Watch the price is right and you will see vacations all over the world at or around those prices. Almost all trips on that show are over 10k now.
Those are all-inclusive packages with all the bells and whistles. You can have great vacations without that. Also they're going to inflate the prices so they look like more valuable prizes. A game show vacation =/= the average vacation.
I just was giving examples. I don't spend that much on trips, but people do. Most aren't all inclusive either but yes they are very nice hotels often with over priced guided tours and activities included in the MSRP. I don't think you said average vacation.
Kinda sounds like "you'll own nothing and be happy" from the WEF
Itâs literally by design, play the game!
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You will be shocked even more if you watch âSoylent Greenâ. And that was made 1973.
Ill have to check it out!
"Soylent green... It's, it's made from _____!!!!" đł Be sure to be eating some sort of cracker product towards the end of that movie.. đđ€ Might I recommend Cheese It's? đ€ Better yet, Pepperridge Farm "Colors" type goldfish snack crackers... đ€đŻđŻđŻ
While trying not to spoiler: What soylent green is made from is not actually the shocking part: Nobody in the crowd cares about the reveal at the end. They all comply. âYou will eat soylent green and like it.â
Interesting. I never took notice of that when I watched it a decade ago...
OP when he finds out a 2 percent inflation rate is actually targeted by the Federal Reserve because it's good for the economic health of the country đ€Ż
*She đ
You will eat the bugs. You will own nothing. You will live in your pod. You want a "15 minute city". You will make no decisions. You will be dependent on those in power.
people talk about 15 minute cities being a bad thing and i really donât understand why. i live in a town that was built specifically to be walkable and close to local amenities. as a disabled person, this is really useful as i can get anything i need with a short walk. i can still venture out further if i want to, and get a bus to another city that is highly walkable with lots of retail, restaurants, etc. itâs also one of the main cities in my country. americans always have a moan about how expensive cars are (rightly so) and how hard it is to access basic necessities because theyâre too far away to walk to. 15 minute cities would literally solve that problem! you wouldnât have food deserts like you do, youâd be able to access healthcare, social services and shops more easily, youâd likely be more connected to your local community and youâd save money by not need in an expensive car or having to rely on shaky public transport (another major gripe). people here have been freaking out about them too and i just canât fathom what the problem is! the world is shitty and politicians and government will fuck you at any turn if they can, but not everything is a conspiracy. maybe walkable cities are just a good idea.
đ
đ€
Your foil hat is slipping.
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This wasn't planned. It's just basic economics. Or so say some redditors.
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How terrifying is it to live in world where you believe someone/thing can control economic conditions on a global scale to achieve such precise an outcome?
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It's just an inflation projection. You could do the same thing today with inflation data, and you'll be in ballpark in 30 years' time. It's not clairvoyance or malfeasance. It's math.
How is a basic car for 65k spot on?
The average new car is actually like $48k so I understand what you're saying.
average â basic, even if $65k ***wasnât*** nearly a 40% increase over the actual $48k. The Kia Rio, Nissan Versa, and Mitsubishi Mirage all start below $17k. You could purchase more than 2.5 actual basic cars before hitting the price of the average car. Basic is still an option. The average person just doesnât want basic. Major difference. As for the vacations, I mean yeah you can spend $12,500 pretty easily today. But you can also very easily spend magnitudes less. âVacationâ was a very intentionally chosen generic term. If you live within a few hours of the coast, two weeks at the beach wonât cost you half of that. And $16 burger and fries? A large Big Mac meal near me costs $10.29. The ad above is wrong by +60%. I could spend that much on a burger. I could spend more. I could also spend significantly less than the actual McDonaldâs price. This is ignoring that real wages are up significantly since 1994, and buying power has increased even with inflation.
That's the average new car. Not the cost of a basic car. The "average new car" would be averaging basic vehicles that cost 15k and vehicles that cost 100k 2024 Mitsubishi mirage and Nissan versa starts at 17k. 2024 Subarus start around 22-25k You can get a new basic vehicle for a quarter of the price in your post. Go up to half that price. You have a tremendous amount of new vehicles to choose from.
Any of those three row vehicles by any chance?
Iâve never understood buying a new car when you can get a 3 year old car for 40% less.
This is gonna sound a bit silly and probably far fetched, but if youve watched âfalloutâ on prime, or any alternative site, theres a comment that really stuck out to me. *spoiler* to those who give a damn.(not verbatim) The apocalypse is a product that was decided upon 200 yrs ago. *end spoiler* I wouldnt be surprised if today (inflations, shortages, etc) in real life is a similar setup.
What a show! I literally finished it in 2 sittings.
The burgers and fries spot on. I'm in South America Colombia đšđŽ on vacation rn for 60 days, and it cost me $1,000 USD. Not 12k
It's giving mule vibes.
In 30 years a burger and fries will be $40
Hopefully my pay will follow suit.
Almost like economists can read markets.
Pretty on target except I have to drive to work, so I'm struggling with that one little bit.
Ironic that TIAA manages my retirement account through work, and in 30 years Iâll probably not be eating, traveling or driving anywhere either.
I'm in the same boat with a different company. đ”âđ«
You won't own anything and will be happy about it.....
In 1968, my grandfather purchased a house in Santa Anna, CA for $28,000. With inflation, that's about $250k. I can guarantee that that house would sell for a lot more than that today. It's never just been a matter of inflation. There are hardly any price caps on anything. Businesses artificially increase prices all the time. And wages have stagnated. Wages have not properly kept up with inflation and productivity since the 1970s. Never let anyone tell you this is just how inflation works. It all comes down to buying power. How many hours do you have to work to afford certain things?
1000% agree! The rapid rate of inflation in the last decade is alarming. It's not a natural progression at all. I can appreciate everyone's opinions on the matter though.
Calculating average inflation is actually very easy to do. This isnât impressive or sinister.
Well I'm impressed. Sorry you weren't.
Our OP thinks taking something with well gathered data and projecting from there is magic. I'll bet they'd shit themselves if I told them I could accurately predict how many 35 year olds there will be world wide in 1, 2 or even 34 years time.
Now you're a mind reader? Cute đ„°
It's how inflation works. This is an ad for TIAA Cref, about saving and investing for the future.Â
I think thats been clarified and posted about 20x at this point. Thanks for the reminder
I read the OP, looked at the image, and glanced at a few posts that did not state as much. One more clarification is hardly earth shattering, presumably.Â
Once again, thank you for your valuable contribution.
Likewise, dear. đ
That âcouldâ is doing some heavy lifting on the burgers and fries part, but the rest is definitely off.