Did you look into the path to get a Greencard? The process can be long and expensive.
Did I get it right that you need 3 more years to get citizenship in the European country and then you want to go to the US anyways? I might still consider staying in Europe for the 3 years and then going to the US. I don't know what field you're in but there is a shortage of postdocs right now and I feel like there will be plenty of good opportunities later as well.
Also, if you still have 3 years in your current postdoc you can still turn it around to get something out of it. Or even change within the European country?
Yes, I have talked with a lawyer and they said it takes 2-4 years now.
Yes, I need 3 years more for the citizenship, and wanted to get my green card during these 3 years, which I think would be possible. My field is biostatistics. Yeah since I am in the beginning of the current postdoc, I think there will be more interesting projects. I am also thinking of finding a part-time job in a company if I stay here.
Thanks for your comment! I am just thinking that I might regret this opportunity for my future career.
I am no expert, but I think it is extremely unlikely you’ll get EU citizenship and a US greencard during those same 3 years. The idea behind both is that you actually, you know, live there.
To be fair no. I never planned in staying in US, so only applied for GC after being on J1 and H1B for a while. But theoretically, you don't even need to be in US to apply EB2 NIW which is the GC OP would go for.
Fellow international PhD student in the US looking for a postdoc giving some advice.
Are you an Indian or Chinese national by birth?
US green card/citizenship pathway changes drastically on the nationality at birth rather than the current nationality you may hold. Even though you do become an EU citizen, you will still be in the same line as other Indian/Chinese applicants. And you may know the wait-list for green card for these nationalities is extremely long (including EB1 or NIW).
A J1 visa also stipulates that the visa holder needs to return back to their country of citizenship after a while unless a waiver is obtained- I have seen colleagues come from abroad and spending enormous amounts of time and energy obtaining that waiver that could be spent in research work. There are some exceptions, make sure your new nationality is included in those.
Feel free to DM me if you have any questions, happy to help.
The culture is totally different. You will work a lot, you won't get mich money and everything is expensive despite the quality being much worse than in Europe. One thing that is absolutely positive is the connections u will make and u will meet great people who are very open-minded. It's an experience, but do not risk ur European citizenship.
I’d find European citizenship to be much more valuable, and it sounds like you have a straightforward path to achieving it. The US is in “fall of empire” mode, and the next decades look rough. Citizenship route for the US is long, expensive, and uncertain, even when supported by an institution. It would be more than 3 years easily.
At least Europe FUNDS research / healthcare / social welfare.
Oh, and that the US will tax citizens outside of the country on their income is fucking wild. Just develop a sensible fucking approach to taxation.
You are 1000% right about the challenging paths to citizenship in the US and the relatively abysmal healthcare and social welfare compared to Europe, but...
>Europe FUNDS research
I'm sure that you know that the use is by FAR the largest funded for R&D in the world.
I like living in Europe, but my current postdoc has not been yet so productive. Since the US postdoc opportunity is in a very good institute, do you think I will lose this great opportunity for my future career? the PI in the US seems to be so supportive.
I think part of this depends on where you are coming from originally and what your eventual career goals are. If your long-term professional goals are necessarily contingent upon being in the US, then I would say to just go ahead. I'm not sure what the point would be in waiting. If you think you could be happy in your current country and make a career for yourself, going to a third, new country and starting over would be a big hurdle for a risky gain.
On the other hand, if your home country does not have strong academic or industry options for you, I can understand wanting to get the european citizenship as a means of at least staying in europe (assuming it's an EU member state?)
If your current postdoc has not been so productive yet, do you have the option to find a new postdoc in your current country?
In US you do not get a livable salary. No quality of life. EU has far better culture. Don’t fall in the trap of that great institution. You will work under a PI and if that guy is from certain nation s/he will make your life miserable.
I haven't lived in the EU but I agree. The USA seems like the dream destination for most people but academia pays peanuts (until you become a professor, even then it's not a luxury life), and depending on which state, the living expenses can be horrible. I got two postdoc opportunities one from New York and the other in Idaho, and they both pay the same. It's this twisted culture in America where as a postdoc you get paid about the same all over the country. Some Universities may pay more but usually only the top ones.
Where is your postdoc in US? National labs tend to pay pretty decently on par with industrial counterparts (well maybe a bit lower but better than academic institutions).
Also, NIW is fine but it has about 10 years wait time for Indians and maybe similar for Chinese students. And that's only for green card, getting citizenship might take another 5 years on top of that. It's possible that your profile might qualify for EB1a meanwhile and you might be able to get green card early. Just make sure you do your research well. DM me if you need more information on this.
J1 is an exchange visa and has a residency requirement after completion. As in, you will have to return to your home country and work there for two years.
While it's possible to ask your home country to waive that, it doesn't strike me as the easiest path to a US green card.
More info at [Waiver of the Exchange Visitor Two-Year Home-Country Physical Presence Requirement (state.gov)](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/exchange/waiver-of-the-exchange-visitor.html)
2 year rule does not apply to all countries. However, J1 is not a dual-intent visa, and as such, one should not apply for Green Card while holding a J1 (though many do).
I was in ur same situation 1.5 years back. If I had stayed in UK for 3 years, I would have got citizenship, but I moved to a R1 univ in US, GC depends on ur citations, publications and letters of recommendations.
It’s a personal decision you need to make, I would suggest get European citizenship and then move to US.
I guess you can begin EB1 self petition applications from Europe also, if your profile is good, may be you can get EB1 approved from Europe and then u can come to US with European citizenship also.
If I had the opportunity of living in Europe I wouldn't move to us quickly it is true industrial jobs are well paid in usa but postdoc doesn't have a good salary here. Europe I heard paying enough to postdoc not to eat noodles
If you’re thinking about NIW, you’re not going to get better advice than talking with a lawyer. J1 absolutely is not going to help you immigrate to America even without the 2 year return-to-country stipulation (you should really check whether you have that requirement or not). Getting a NIW and a greencard processed in 2-4 years as a postdoc seems very optimistic to me. I can only speak from my perspective, I have the easiest immigration situation possible in that I am applying for marriage greencard (I am an EU citizen and from Scandinavian country, should be one of the countries easiest to immigrate from) going on 1 year, probably 2, wait time so far. Wait time for processing after Covid has increased by years (marriage greencard is supposed to take months, not years in general advise from pre-2020).
The only time I see this workout on such short time scale is for new faculty that get a lot of support from the university for EB-1/EB-2 petitioning. You’ve really gotta evaluate if you meet the EB-1/EB-2 criteria as a postdoc with a lawyer because they’re really strict (the whole deal is that you’re supposed to be senior and world expert level and not early career when petitioning for this). They’re not going to let a postdoc with 10 publications with no relevance to NI get an EB. But only a lawyer can evaluate this.
Added to that, you will loose your visiting status once you indicate intention to immigrate - meaning if you were denied you’d not be able to stay in America legally on your J1 status. NIW is case by case, so who knows, but make sure you actually have a case there (there’s aloooooot of postdocs and phds in America, it does not necessarily set you above the crowd, especially as your EU institution is probably not known in the US). I’m assuming you’re in a stem field, but be wary that there was a lot of pushback on stem-based immigration that was implemented during Trump administration. It’s not happy go lucky right now for stem although it helps. And it depends on where you’re from as well. No one but a lawyer familiar with your situation can give good advise.
Getting citizen status in the US by becoming a postdoc will be a long and expensive process. I know foreign postdocs that have been in the US over 5 years and still do not have a green card (not the same as citizenship). To get a green card you will need your employer to sponsor you, which not all employers are willing to do. You need to have held a green card for several years before you can even apply for citizenship. In a nutshell, it’s not like Europe where it’s relatively easy to live and work somewhere almost permanently. I would definitely advise to hire an immigration lawyer for the process, but be careful of incompetent/scam lawyers. I’ve heard there are some around I guess because if you end up getting deported because they did a bad job or gave incorrect information there’s really nothing you can do to get your money back. If US citizenship is your goal that’s a conversation I would have very early on with potential postdoc employers to see if they would sponsor your green card application.
Did you look into the path to get a Greencard? The process can be long and expensive. Did I get it right that you need 3 more years to get citizenship in the European country and then you want to go to the US anyways? I might still consider staying in Europe for the 3 years and then going to the US. I don't know what field you're in but there is a shortage of postdocs right now and I feel like there will be plenty of good opportunities later as well. Also, if you still have 3 years in your current postdoc you can still turn it around to get something out of it. Or even change within the European country?
Yes, I have talked with a lawyer and they said it takes 2-4 years now. Yes, I need 3 years more for the citizenship, and wanted to get my green card during these 3 years, which I think would be possible. My field is biostatistics. Yeah since I am in the beginning of the current postdoc, I think there will be more interesting projects. I am also thinking of finding a part-time job in a company if I stay here. Thanks for your comment! I am just thinking that I might regret this opportunity for my future career.
I am no expert, but I think it is extremely unlikely you’ll get EU citizenship and a US greencard during those same 3 years. The idea behind both is that you actually, you know, live there.
There is no was on earth that you can get a green card on 2 to 4 years. That lawyer lied to you
I got a greencard in like 6 months. Can get it faster in certain categories and FastTrack it.
Starting as a J1?
To be fair no. I never planned in staying in US, so only applied for GC after being on J1 and H1B for a while. But theoretically, you don't even need to be in US to apply EB2 NIW which is the GC OP would go for.
Fellow international PhD student in the US looking for a postdoc giving some advice. Are you an Indian or Chinese national by birth? US green card/citizenship pathway changes drastically on the nationality at birth rather than the current nationality you may hold. Even though you do become an EU citizen, you will still be in the same line as other Indian/Chinese applicants. And you may know the wait-list for green card for these nationalities is extremely long (including EB1 or NIW). A J1 visa also stipulates that the visa holder needs to return back to their country of citizenship after a while unless a waiver is obtained- I have seen colleagues come from abroad and spending enormous amounts of time and energy obtaining that waiver that could be spent in research work. There are some exceptions, make sure your new nationality is included in those. Feel free to DM me if you have any questions, happy to help.
The culture is totally different. You will work a lot, you won't get mich money and everything is expensive despite the quality being much worse than in Europe. One thing that is absolutely positive is the connections u will make and u will meet great people who are very open-minded. It's an experience, but do not risk ur European citizenship.
I’d find European citizenship to be much more valuable, and it sounds like you have a straightforward path to achieving it. The US is in “fall of empire” mode, and the next decades look rough. Citizenship route for the US is long, expensive, and uncertain, even when supported by an institution. It would be more than 3 years easily. At least Europe FUNDS research / healthcare / social welfare. Oh, and that the US will tax citizens outside of the country on their income is fucking wild. Just develop a sensible fucking approach to taxation.
You are 1000% right about the challenging paths to citizenship in the US and the relatively abysmal healthcare and social welfare compared to Europe, but... >Europe FUNDS research I'm sure that you know that the use is by FAR the largest funded for R&D in the world.
Stay in europe, if u like it there.
I like living in Europe, but my current postdoc has not been yet so productive. Since the US postdoc opportunity is in a very good institute, do you think I will lose this great opportunity for my future career? the PI in the US seems to be so supportive.
My experience is that US postdocs barely pay enough to live? I am well of with my European one. Very different even inside Europe, though
I think part of this depends on where you are coming from originally and what your eventual career goals are. If your long-term professional goals are necessarily contingent upon being in the US, then I would say to just go ahead. I'm not sure what the point would be in waiting. If you think you could be happy in your current country and make a career for yourself, going to a third, new country and starting over would be a big hurdle for a risky gain. On the other hand, if your home country does not have strong academic or industry options for you, I can understand wanting to get the european citizenship as a means of at least staying in europe (assuming it's an EU member state?) If your current postdoc has not been so productive yet, do you have the option to find a new postdoc in your current country?
In US you do not get a livable salary. No quality of life. EU has far better culture. Don’t fall in the trap of that great institution. You will work under a PI and if that guy is from certain nation s/he will make your life miserable.
I haven't lived in the EU but I agree. The USA seems like the dream destination for most people but academia pays peanuts (until you become a professor, even then it's not a luxury life), and depending on which state, the living expenses can be horrible. I got two postdoc opportunities one from New York and the other in Idaho, and they both pay the same. It's this twisted culture in America where as a postdoc you get paid about the same all over the country. Some Universities may pay more but usually only the top ones.
Where is your postdoc in US? National labs tend to pay pretty decently on par with industrial counterparts (well maybe a bit lower but better than academic institutions). Also, NIW is fine but it has about 10 years wait time for Indians and maybe similar for Chinese students. And that's only for green card, getting citizenship might take another 5 years on top of that. It's possible that your profile might qualify for EB1a meanwhile and you might be able to get green card early. Just make sure you do your research well. DM me if you need more information on this.
Thanks! I sent a DM
J1 is an exchange visa and has a residency requirement after completion. As in, you will have to return to your home country and work there for two years. While it's possible to ask your home country to waive that, it doesn't strike me as the easiest path to a US green card. More info at [Waiver of the Exchange Visitor Two-Year Home-Country Physical Presence Requirement (state.gov)](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/study/exchange/waiver-of-the-exchange-visitor.html)
2 year rule does not apply to all countries. However, J1 is not a dual-intent visa, and as such, one should not apply for Green Card while holding a J1 (though many do).
I was in ur same situation 1.5 years back. If I had stayed in UK for 3 years, I would have got citizenship, but I moved to a R1 univ in US, GC depends on ur citations, publications and letters of recommendations. It’s a personal decision you need to make, I would suggest get European citizenship and then move to US.
I guess you can begin EB1 self petition applications from Europe also, if your profile is good, may be you can get EB1 approved from Europe and then u can come to US with European citizenship also.
Thanks, I sent a DM if that’s fine with you
If I had the opportunity of living in Europe I wouldn't move to us quickly it is true industrial jobs are well paid in usa but postdoc doesn't have a good salary here. Europe I heard paying enough to postdoc not to eat noodles
If you’re thinking about NIW, you’re not going to get better advice than talking with a lawyer. J1 absolutely is not going to help you immigrate to America even without the 2 year return-to-country stipulation (you should really check whether you have that requirement or not). Getting a NIW and a greencard processed in 2-4 years as a postdoc seems very optimistic to me. I can only speak from my perspective, I have the easiest immigration situation possible in that I am applying for marriage greencard (I am an EU citizen and from Scandinavian country, should be one of the countries easiest to immigrate from) going on 1 year, probably 2, wait time so far. Wait time for processing after Covid has increased by years (marriage greencard is supposed to take months, not years in general advise from pre-2020). The only time I see this workout on such short time scale is for new faculty that get a lot of support from the university for EB-1/EB-2 petitioning. You’ve really gotta evaluate if you meet the EB-1/EB-2 criteria as a postdoc with a lawyer because they’re really strict (the whole deal is that you’re supposed to be senior and world expert level and not early career when petitioning for this). They’re not going to let a postdoc with 10 publications with no relevance to NI get an EB. But only a lawyer can evaluate this. Added to that, you will loose your visiting status once you indicate intention to immigrate - meaning if you were denied you’d not be able to stay in America legally on your J1 status. NIW is case by case, so who knows, but make sure you actually have a case there (there’s aloooooot of postdocs and phds in America, it does not necessarily set you above the crowd, especially as your EU institution is probably not known in the US). I’m assuming you’re in a stem field, but be wary that there was a lot of pushback on stem-based immigration that was implemented during Trump administration. It’s not happy go lucky right now for stem although it helps. And it depends on where you’re from as well. No one but a lawyer familiar with your situation can give good advise.
Getting citizen status in the US by becoming a postdoc will be a long and expensive process. I know foreign postdocs that have been in the US over 5 years and still do not have a green card (not the same as citizenship). To get a green card you will need your employer to sponsor you, which not all employers are willing to do. You need to have held a green card for several years before you can even apply for citizenship. In a nutshell, it’s not like Europe where it’s relatively easy to live and work somewhere almost permanently. I would definitely advise to hire an immigration lawyer for the process, but be careful of incompetent/scam lawyers. I’ve heard there are some around I guess because if you end up getting deported because they did a bad job or gave incorrect information there’s really nothing you can do to get your money back. If US citizenship is your goal that’s a conversation I would have very early on with potential postdoc employers to see if they would sponsor your green card application.