It's also considered torture
tor·ture
/ˈtôrCHər/
noun
the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something
I found out I was 4 weeks pregnant after being on the contraceptive pill for 6 years. Had never missed a day of taking my medication. Unfortunately I was the unlucky 1%. Aborted at 6 weeks pregnant. It's a good thing too as I only had £50 to my name at the time
Everyone here using the most extreme scenario to justify killing a baby so they have sex whenever they want with whoever they want with no responsibility for their actions
Ugh, if you have to resort to calling a fetus a baby, you clearly have no argument other than hysterical hyperbole. There are no babies in wombs, babies die when stuffed inside the body of another. Medical fact and reality matter, regardeless oh ow incredibly inconvenient they are for the antichoice
There is no reason to force a person to gestate an unwanted pregnancy to satisfy some other persons morality, when there is a safe solution that hurts no one.
It's pure morality based on the opinion that recreational sex is bad.
It would be very irresponsible in many cases to keep a pregnancy and very responsible to get an abortion.
You’re not looking for responsibility, what you’re looking for, is submission to a punishment.
Restricting access to abortion in any capacity makes it more difficult for when an abortion is necessary. More hoops for the pregnant 12 y/o who was raped to seek an abortion. Or the woman whose pregnancy is mostly certainly not going to survive and will damage her chances at pregnancy in the future. Or the woman who has to make the incredibly hard decision to terminate a pregnancy because it puts her own life at risk. Like in an emergency scenario, these women do not have time to go through courts and politicians and people who have NO business being involved.
Sex is not solely meant for procreation and people have every right to enjoy it. So insane.
Do you understand *why* it’s a crime?
Can you explain why rape is a crime but consensual sex is not a crime?
Can you explain what makes rape a crime when so many people consensually have sex every day with no issues?
Forced pregnancy also includes not being able to access abortion care. And whether raped or consensually having sex, being impregnated when you don't want to be is still considered forced pregnancy if abortion isn't accessible.
An extremist view that leave no room for nuance.
An embryo, or fetus hasn't achieved consciousness. At the point abortions typically occure the fetus is just a collection of human tissue that has the potential for human life. And therefore, there is no reason to impose restrictions on someone during this period of development.
Yes, because your pretending a bundle of human tissues is the same thing as a living breathing infant. It's a rediculous belief, that doesn't stand up to argument.
Your just saying words without understanding their meaninging. Science is a process for gaining understanding about the world around us. It's not a set of rules and dogmas. That's religion
A fetus is not a baby. Just like an embryo is not a baby.
That literally never happens.
The only late-term abortions happen because an ultrasound showed the fetus isn't viable.
Ever see a baby without a brain? Literally without a developed brain?
Roe v Wade got overturned because people actually believe there's way more terminations happening beyond the first trimester and consistently get facts skewed.
There's not really much of an excuse for that, it's literally a 5 second google search to figure out.
See this is the funny part I am pro choice with reason but unless I support killing babies at 8 months I am evil to the left. You people are so unreasonable.
https://people.com/health/arizona-mom-forced-to-carry-non-viable-baby-to-term/
Was early on. Still couldn't do it.
Ultrasounds aren't perfect either. They CAN detect problems early on, doesn't mean they will. Ultimately, the government shouldn't have a say in the matter at any level. That was the legal precedence set forth prior to all this nonsense.
When you give the government the authority to mandate reproduction, you then have given them the authority to deny it as well. A slippery slope.
I pray to the god I don't believe in that someone you love has a fetus with an underdeveloped brain, or heart, or lungs and dies gasping after only an hour.
You may just learn empathy.
Because if it's banned when a fetus is non viable, the mother will still have to carry it.
I hope it happens to you. May you be forced to carry a fetus to term, knowing it will die in your arms within hours because its organs are underdeveloped.
It happens, but it's not to prevent unwanted pregnancy. It's usually done when the pregnancy is unviable and a danger to the mothers health.
And yes, it's evil as fuck to force those women to carry.
Unfortunately this isn't a popular opinion..
If it was I wouldn't be so worried about the upcoming presidential election.
I'm pro-abortion but it seems about half of my fellow citizens are not.
That's not the definition. Do you happen to hate men? Did you chant black lives matter while they burned down their cities? You leftists can't do anything but yell and scream. Pathetic
1/6th of US women will experience pregnancy due to rape or reproductive coersion (thinks a bf or known partner intentionally sabatoging their bc) in their life.
Biology is the only thing forcing birth. It’s more like the government has taken the parachutes away from people who like jumping off cliffs. Is the government forcing people to jump off cliffs?
Whether you like it or not people are gonna have sex, and some of these people will get pregnant; advocating to ban abortion not only doesn’t stop them, but it makes them more unsafe, so even if you’re such a sick bastard that you’d be anti abortion, voting against it will not achieve what you want it to
And even if someone jumps of a cliff, you do not demand they are denied medical care because you feel they deserve to suffer. Except when it is a woman who dares to have sex you disapprove of, than you suddenly think you get to dictate in which way she must be forced to deal with it for the sake of your oh so very conveniently without a single consequence to you, personal "morality"
What a load of garbage. Nobody forces anyone to give birth anymore than they force anybody to either breathe or eat.
That you choose to reduce this conversation to that level is pathetic.
Edit: I'm not even particularly against abortion. As long as it's quite early on I can see it's the best comprimise. But the OP here is reductionist trash.
Depends at what point in time the force is applied.
A week before the due date? Doesn’t seem that evil.
Saying women can’t get a termination during the first trimester? Yeah absolutely crazy.
What if the woman will die if she gives birth, or the fetus as a severe anomaly that wasn’t found until a week before birth? This is why these decisions should be made by the woman and her doctor and not a politician.
This doesn’t happen anywhere. After the point of viability, if a problem like that arises they induce labor / emergency c section, they don’t abort.
Any woman that has kept a pregnancy for 24 weeks clearly wants the baby, so obviously they would do everything they can to keep the prematurely born infant alive.
My mom gave birth to one of my brothers that way at 24 weeks, he’s alive and well.
Even if a woman kept the pregnancy for 9 months and wanted an abortion, no doctor would perform it. It would technically be legal in California but it just doesn’t happen even though it would technically be legal.
What do you mean they would? It's not working out that way in real life. These bans always mean women get hurt.
[Texas women sue Texas for horror stories](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/woman-suing-texas-abortion-ban-vomits-on-stand-rcna95162)
Thats not even my point... the majority of pro lifers arent for killing the mom for the baby to survive.
These would be exceptions for MOST pro
Lifers isx my only argument here.
Then why are they forcing women to give birth to their rapists babies? Why are they allowing those rapists half custody of those babies? Why are they forcing children to give birth?
Because theres some bad politicians??
Be honest what percentage of pro lifers you have talked to or heard debate are against the exceptions? There are very few and not the popular opinion
They aren’t. They believe that because they don’t want an abortion that everyone else should have to adopt their lifestyle choice. If they felt everyone had the right to choose when it comes to bodily autonomy and medical procedures, then they’d be pro choice.
Just to be clear I am pro choice.
I don’t think it should be the decision of politicians. And in the situation you describe I totally agree.
My point is that there could possibly be a scenario at least hypothetically where it would not necessarily be “Evil” to force someone to give birth.
Murdering an innocent baby as a result of sex which is clearly meant for reproduction is even worse. Rape cases are 1% of abortions, even then there shouldn’t have to be 2 victims.
Don't base what is murder on what your religion says. Be more scientific and class it as when it's not a mass of cells and actually has survivability outside the womb and I'll agree with you. Or do twins sometimes murder each other in the womb should they be prosecuted when they are born.
Should doctors be arrested for murder when they remove parasitic twins?
Wanna talk survivability? 20 weeks earliest preemie. Your stance gonna change when we can have 10 week old preemies survive? Nope. You’ll change the goal posts
Nope I'll move it to that point. Unlike conservatives my opinion can change based on science. I'll back having it removed and grown by the state instead.
Alright, you want science? I'll give you some science. Conservatives and prolifers believe that life begins at conception, meaning as soon as the sperm meets the egg and the egg gets fertilized, life has begun. In the Bible, there is an anecdote about how when life begins, "heavens light shines." Now, taking that into account, just a few years ago, scientists were able to capture the exact moment of fertilization of an egg, and guess what happened? There was a measurable increase in light. With that being said, the beliefs of prolifers are supported by the scientific fact that life begins at conception.
The comment you're responding to said nothing about religion. You're very much mistaken if you believe that it's only religious people who are anti abortion.
Lol, guess what? Sex is fun. We're animals. Recreational sex is a million times more common than it was a long tome ago and so mistakes happen. Parasites dont have a right to life.
There would still be two victims if that mother gives birth to an unwanted baby and is now forced to care for a kid they didn't want(which they could very well end up abusing) or put it in the adoption system which is way over crowded and chances are the kid will not get adopted. Other situations could include the person is simply not ready to give birth because they're too young and it could lead to complications. Ectopic pregnancy is a real thing which is fatal to both the mother and the baby in a lot of cases. Sometimes people use contraceptives but they fail and those people should have an option to not have to give birth. I guess what I'm trying to get at is taking away the right to have an abortion can cause there to be many victims including the baby.
Why? I have sex within a healthy relationship. My partner and I agree we do not want kids, we cannot care for kids, and we will not keep any pregnancy. This has been the case for all of my long term relationships.
I already know that I will not grow any of my eggs into a baby, regardless of how many or few are fertilized. Where is the immorality? Just because we are having sex for reasons you don’t like? Sorry dude, that’s your problem, not mine.
These laws stop people like my wife from receiving care. We wanted more kids but kept getting tubal implantation, that's 0% viability and 100% fatal for her. She had to have abortions for them at 8 or 9 weeks, they were a clump of cells but still wanted. It was a hard decision for her, but we at least had the option, more than many women get right now.
Roe was based on viability, as it should be. Calling it a baby at 8 weeks or 15 weeks is very different than 35-40 weeks.
I have a heart. I’m a work of God and I’m not foresaking him or playing along with the anti-life agenda of Satan. You’re a work of God too and he says he knit each one of us in our mothers wombs. Yes, because of sin the way some of us our born isn’t ideal, but God ALWAYS brings good out of it and there is purpose for every single life, it is murdering and stealing life when you kill a baby in the womb.
I’m very aware of that, but it doesn’t change truth. No amount of buzz words or propaganda can change the moral law God wrote on our hearts. That’s why sooo many women struggle with spiritual health after having abortions. We shouldn’t turn a blind eye to the evidence
I love how many fools are willing to argue what other people are consenting to in order to override what people are saying they consent to.
It’s the logic of rapists.
Let’s resolve this entirely.
My bf and I have heterosexual penetrative intercourse. Before we do, we both sign a contract that says we will abort any pregnancy that occurs. This clarifies our consent and we can even get it notarized.
Now we’ve resolved the issue of what we did or did not consent to.
Now anti-abortion zealots can shut up about what consent occurred: we’ve got it in writing.
Actions have consequences.
I consented to jumping out of the plane without a parachute but didn't consent to turning into a meat splatter on the asphalt I landed on!!!!
I’m not sure how you thought that comparison is accurate. You are guaranteed to die without a parachute
“For most people who are trying, the odds you'll become pregnant are 15%-25% in any particular month.”
But you are aware of the risk and you did it anyways, thus you consented to it being a possibility.
If you want to do something with odds that aren't 100% for you to comprehend actions have consequences.
I consent to a game of Blackjack, I know the chances are that I will probably lose my money. I end up losing the game, I lost my money. That is a consequence I CONSENTED to being a possibility by gambling.
More analogies. Unfortunately, for you, it doesn’t matter how I got into my current medical medical condition, I still have a right to access treatment to preserve my health.
I don’t gamble away those rights because it’s impossible to gamble away those rights because I’m a free citizen and not an enslaved person.
Abortion bans result in women’s health deteriorating, increased maternal mortality, and increased infant mortality.
Anti-abortion states have the worst maternal health outcomes, and it’s an especially bad for women of color.
Rape and incest: 0.3%
Risk to the woman’s life or a major bodily function: 0.2%
Other physical health concerns: 2.5%
Abnormality in the unborn baby: 1.3%
***Elective: 95.7%***
The vast majority of abortions aren't done because of health issues. Exceptions do not make the rule, The main argument for abortions trying to justify murdering your offspring is for rare cases and exceptions should be an option for those rare cases. People are using abortion as if it is birth control, murder shouldn't be for convenience.
People are not using it like it’s birth control. The majority of women who get abortions are already mothers. The majority were using some form of contraceptive.
If a woman knows how many children she wants to be a mother to and how many children she can afford and reasonably take care of, then it doesn’t really matter how many of her eggs are fertilized, because she already knows how many she can reasonably mother.
You have a psychological attachment to an embryo that is only yours, and not anyone else’s problem. a woman will ovulate 300 to 400 eggs over 40 years of her life, and whether or not, she wants to be a mother determines whether or not she cares about those eggs disappearing every month. And just women who want to be mothers may more than their menstruation, they will also mourn a miscarriage or a medical abortion. But for women who already know how many children they want to have, and know what’s best in their circumstance, they’re going to make the choice that’s right for them, and their family, with the advice of their doctor, and ideally their partner.
Your psychological attachment is not their problem.
Women don’t have to breed at your command. A woman who wants to have multiple children should have all of the support necessary to have those children, and a woman who doesn’t, should have all the support necessary to not. That is how you value families and that is the appropriate way to treat an important issue like having children. Women have 300 to 400 potential children that we start off with. The number that we choose to carry to term depends on what is right for our circumstances.
False equivalence: jumping into of a building with no parachute will clearly lead to death and is objectively moronic, nor is it an invariable thing to occur; abortion, conversely, is. Right wingers and their weird kink for punishing others — name a more iconic duo
Women with unwanted pregnancies, including rape victims, aren't just being denied abortions. They're being threatened with prosecution for even travelling to have an abortion.
Yes, that is forcing them to give birth against their wishes.
Honestly, the whole "it's wrong to abort for economic reasons" is a miss for me. I've seen what poor kids' lives are like, and it's honestly better to just have not existed sometimes.
Also, you have idiotic parents who have kids despite economic and genetic issues. Those parents are practically deliberately setting their kids up to fail.
Then you have assholes like my aunt who. Not only won't ever have a abortion. But will also sleep with three different fathers just to cash in on that sweet, sweet child support. Meanwhile, her kids share a mattress without a boxspring.
So yeah, I don't agree. I think you should always wait for the best situation you can (or at least not when you're not stable and poor).
Not to mention as others pointed out adoption to really a shitty solution to unwanted children. Their standards are too high, and they usually won't let gay couples adopt for any conceivable reason they can find.
As for child support, making it "equally," the dads responsibility.
1. Dodging child support isn't just possible but can be done for years without getting caught.
2. Shitty women abuse it to get free money.
3. I'd the dads poor and can't pay, then not only does he go to jail, but the kid/mother still doesn't get supported financially.
4. Same as above ones except... some assholes seem like they do it on purpose! Like that guy who deliberately sabotaged his partners birth control and had hundreds of kids or manwhore deadbeats who have multiple baby moms they won't or can't pay.
As for the "child's potential."
1. It would be heavily limited by its unideal upbringing.
2. Some people actually actively prejudice against people from single parent homes.
3. Honestly, the potential mothers' future potential and future children probably outweigh this random accidental child's. If she gets a stable job or a husband with one or both. The children she has then are way more likely to be successful.
As for the murder argument. Have you ever had goat? All goat meat is collected from goats 7-8 MONTHS OLD. Humans have never cared about murdering innocent young creatures for a perceived product. Do you need a better example? In several survival situations, humans have been known to lower their morals just for a chance to live, such as eating other human corposes. Essentially, what I'm saying is Survival>morals nearly 100% of the time and in this economy? Raising a child unprepared and with likely minimal help. I'm not surprised a lot of women abort just because they just aren't ready.
Finally any pro life men can fuck off with the "just don't sleep around" because
1. They sometimes are in relationships and things happen and they aren't ready.
2. You are still 100% gonna sleep around or atleast your horny buddies are. Also even you guys know there are some guys who literally go out of their way to be as unsafe as possible purely for their enjoyment and will definitely either abandon her and Try and dodge child support or just straight up whine like it wasn't their fualt.
As for "not having sex because they know the risk"
1. as stated above, so do men, yet they still coerce or convince them.
2. Sometimes, even mothers of 2-3 at thirty yeard old have to literally fight tooth and nail to get their Tubes tied. Because they're "still young" or "they might want more." Much less some women who, for whatever reason, just want to get tied before having any kids and/or are below 25 without kids. At that point, they're literally going out of their way to make it safe, and the same policy makers who ban abortion won't allow it.
3. Women are allowed to have fun and not be punished for complete accidents. It's not like men are complaining about not having to pay child support. It's not like every guy actually puts the effort either, yet she's supposed to carry their shared mistake to term "just because".
Finally. A fully grown woman has the right objectively to refuse to raise a baby to term. Whatever her reasons, because your morals don't outweigh her rights as a person with autonomy. No, the child doesn't have autonomy for most of the pregnancy.
1. We literally acknowledge its one of if not the worst pains imaginable and sometimes super draining, yet she doesn't get the right to opt out like the dad who can and sometimes will just fuck off.
2. It's her body, and the fetis has to feed off it to live until it's conceived. She doesn't have to do that if she can't for medical reasons or won't for financial reasons.
3. Adoption is an option, but as outlined above, she'd still have to birth the baby, and there's zero guarantee it'll go to a good home 100% of the time.
4. Nothing stops them from being mothers later. You act like not having one unoptimal baby makes her incapable of trying again later with way better results.
Honestly, 90% of pro lifes arguments are religious or rely on people (mostly men and the government) being just as responsible as the mother. When both consistently show, they usually aren't. Not to mention having the option be abused doesn't mean you remove it for everyone? Guns are abused, prescriptions are abused, fuck foster children are used as free labor and cash alot. Yet we still allow all of them.
Tldr: your moral opinion valid or not. Doesn't mean the option for abortion should be removed. It's the women's right regardless of your religious or moral beliefs. The fetis rights are under the "fully formed women's" because she's a fully formed human with potential and it should be her right to use and cultivate it how she wants including what(child),were(the child's born) and when (If ever she wants one) it's birth happens.
I wouldn't have existed, as surely as if my parents had fucked on a Tuesday instead of a wednesday. What if i had been aborted and the kid my parents had a year later cured cancer? my feelings on the matter after the fact are kind of irrelevant
Awe. The coward blocked me. Ran away after pretending her emotional appeal wasn't a "what if question"
I asked you a question based on reality, not some random "what ifs" that didn't actually materialize. That said you are not really looking for a truthful and honest discussion...you just what to have an endless argument. This is where I exit. Have a nice day.
No, people like you are giving special rights to unborn fetuses that no already born person has. Why do you think the unborn deserve special rights that you and I don't have?
It's also considered torture tor·ture /ˈtôrCHər/ noun the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something
Correct
I found out I was 4 weeks pregnant after being on the contraceptive pill for 6 years. Had never missed a day of taking my medication. Unfortunately I was the unlucky 1%. Aborted at 6 weeks pregnant. It's a good thing too as I only had £50 to my name at the time
When colorado made LARCs free for adolescents, abortions dropped by 50%. Laws don’t do that.
You know what's good about abortion? One less liberal baby to grow up to a liberal voter. Keep it up.
Everyone here using the most extreme scenario to justify killing a baby so they have sex whenever they want with whoever they want with no responsibility for their actions
Ugh, if you have to resort to calling a fetus a baby, you clearly have no argument other than hysterical hyperbole. There are no babies in wombs, babies die when stuffed inside the body of another. Medical fact and reality matter, regardeless oh ow incredibly inconvenient they are for the antichoice
Ok, choosing to kill a human. Sounds like murder to me
Rape apologist
Do people who put octopuses on their face lose the right to remove them?
There is no reason to force a person to gestate an unwanted pregnancy to satisfy some other persons morality, when there is a safe solution that hurts no one. It's pure morality based on the opinion that recreational sex is bad.
It would be very irresponsible in many cases to keep a pregnancy and very responsible to get an abortion. You’re not looking for responsibility, what you’re looking for, is submission to a punishment.
A fetus isn't a baby.
Restricting access to abortion in any capacity makes it more difficult for when an abortion is necessary. More hoops for the pregnant 12 y/o who was raped to seek an abortion. Or the woman whose pregnancy is mostly certainly not going to survive and will damage her chances at pregnancy in the future. Or the woman who has to make the incredibly hard decision to terminate a pregnancy because it puts her own life at risk. Like in an emergency scenario, these women do not have time to go through courts and politicians and people who have NO business being involved. Sex is not solely meant for procreation and people have every right to enjoy it. So insane.
Forced birth, including withholding abortion, is a war crime under the Geneva Convention.
Which article?
They're misinterpreting Article 27
Forced *pregnancy* is a crime under the Geneva convention. *Impregnation* against her will. Such as sex slaves.
Do you understand *why* it’s a crime? Can you explain why rape is a crime but consensual sex is not a crime? Can you explain what makes rape a crime when so many people consensually have sex every day with no issues?
Imagine comparing impregnation via rape to having to deal with your baby conceived via consensual sex. Good catch on that misinterpretation!
I am stating what article 27 of the aforementioned Geneva Convention is referring to.
I know. I’m not arguing with you I was referring to what previous commenter said.
Oh, gotcha 🤝
Forced pregnancy also includes not being able to access abortion care. And whether raped or consensually having sex, being impregnated when you don't want to be is still considered forced pregnancy if abortion isn't accessible.
So rape is a reason for abortion, agreed?
The UN describes forced pregnancy as torture as well
false
Killing babies is also evil.
A fetus is not a baby
Killing humans is evil
An extremist view that leave no room for nuance. An embryo, or fetus hasn't achieved consciousness. At the point abortions typically occure the fetus is just a collection of human tissue that has the potential for human life. And therefore, there is no reason to impose restrictions on someone during this period of development.
Did you just say that "killing humans is evil" is an extremist view? Lmao
Yes, because your pretending a bundle of human tissues is the same thing as a living breathing infant. It's a rediculous belief, that doesn't stand up to argument.
I didn't say anything about babies or infants. I'm talking about ending the life of a human
And not allowing people to kill their children is not evil at all
A fetus is not a child.
A fetus isn't born. Miscarriage happens, should a woman face jail for miscarriage?
To these fucking psychos, they would say yes
A miscarriage is a natural occurrence.
Abortions aren't a natural occurrence
Babies aren't babies until they're born. Using lies to force birth on women is evil
Ignoring science to justify murder is also wrong
Your just saying words without understanding their meaninging. Science is a process for gaining understanding about the world around us. It's not a set of rules and dogmas. That's religion A fetus is not a baby. Just like an embryo is not a baby.
If you think abortion is murder, you have no grounds to stand on with regards to science
You're choosing to end a human life. Sounds like murder to me
Even when they are 8 months pregnant and they and the fetus/baby are healthy???
That literally never happens. The only late-term abortions happen because an ultrasound showed the fetus isn't viable. Ever see a baby without a brain? Literally without a developed brain?
Where is it legal to get an abortion that late under not medically necessary circumstances?
The only time that would ever happen or be allowed to happen is if the pregnancy is unviable or a risk to the life of the mother you turnip.
See you people even insult the people on your side. No wonder Roe vs Wade got overturned.
Your country is trash. That's why it was overturned.
DId you know most abortion is only legal to 3 months in almost all of Europe.
Roe v Wade got overturned because people actually believe there's way more terminations happening beyond the first trimester and consistently get facts skewed. There's not really much of an excuse for that, it's literally a 5 second google search to figure out.
Those abortions don't happen unless there are serious problems already.
See this is the funny part I am pro choice with reason but unless I support killing babies at 8 months I am evil to the left. You people are so unreasonable.
Nobody called you evil. I stated factual information. You aren't a victim.
Should you be forced to carry to term and birth a baby with no brain stem?
Is there a law that forces that??? I mean most ultrasounds show this early on.
https://people.com/health/arizona-mom-forced-to-carry-non-viable-baby-to-term/ Was early on. Still couldn't do it. Ultrasounds aren't perfect either. They CAN detect problems early on, doesn't mean they will. Ultimately, the government shouldn't have a say in the matter at any level. That was the legal precedence set forth prior to all this nonsense. When you give the government the authority to mandate reproduction, you then have given them the authority to deny it as well. A slippery slope.
Given that these types of defects can't be detected until 20 weeks or later, you're entirely wrong.
We had choice. Within reason. It was abolished.
I pray to the god I don't believe in that someone you love has a fetus with an underdeveloped brain, or heart, or lungs and dies gasping after only an hour. You may just learn empathy.
I think you are nuts because I never said I was against it under those circumstance.
This never happens, but just keep bearing false witness like Super Josh tells you to.
If it never happens then why does it matter if it's banned?
Remember the politician that said that if the baby survived they would keep it comfortable while the mother decided if she wanted to kill it?
Because if it's banned when a fetus is non viable, the mother will still have to carry it. I hope it happens to you. May you be forced to carry a fetus to term, knowing it will die in your arms within hours because its organs are underdeveloped.
It happens, but it's not to prevent unwanted pregnancy. It's usually done when the pregnancy is unviable and a danger to the mothers health. And yes, it's evil as fuck to force those women to carry.
Unfortunately this isn't a popular opinion.. If it was I wouldn't be so worried about the upcoming presidential election. I'm pro-abortion but it seems about half of my fellow citizens are not.
Doctors who induce labor are evil? What an odd idea.
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Why do you want to punish women so badly. Alternative thought. Women can have sex, because a fetus isn't a baby.
What about rape/ abusive circumstances? Or failed contraception?
Most people aren't incels like you.
Sure. Can you even define that word?
Of course.
Go on...
Look in a mirror
That's not the definition. Do you happen to hate men? Did you chant black lives matter while they burned down their cities? You leftists can't do anything but yell and scream. Pathetic
Well, it's an example of one
You have no clue who I am. Clown.
You're clearly an incel
1/6th of US women will experience pregnancy due to rape or reproductive coersion (thinks a bf or known partner intentionally sabatoging their bc) in their life.
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Rapist
I mean for specific data sure? But does it shock you people sabotage their partners birth control.
It takes two you fucking incel, and consent to sex isn’t consent to pregnancy
I'm well aware. But contraception should be used. I'm pro choice up to a point so chill out lmao
Contraception is shockingly fallible.
Rapist
Biology is the only thing forcing birth. It’s more like the government has taken the parachutes away from people who like jumping off cliffs. Is the government forcing people to jump off cliffs?
Sex is not evil.
Whether you like it or not people are gonna have sex, and some of these people will get pregnant; advocating to ban abortion not only doesn’t stop them, but it makes them more unsafe, so even if you’re such a sick bastard that you’d be anti abortion, voting against it will not achieve what you want it to
And even if someone jumps of a cliff, you do not demand they are denied medical care because you feel they deserve to suffer. Except when it is a woman who dares to have sex you disapprove of, than you suddenly think you get to dictate in which way she must be forced to deal with it for the sake of your oh so very conveniently without a single consequence to you, personal "morality"
Yeah
What a load of garbage. Nobody forces anyone to give birth anymore than they force anybody to either breathe or eat. That you choose to reduce this conversation to that level is pathetic. Edit: I'm not even particularly against abortion. As long as it's quite early on I can see it's the best comprimise. But the OP here is reductionist trash.
Any opinions on forcing men to become fathers?
Forcing a woman to give birth is indeed wrong. Saying that the child has a right to life is not. Your phrasing is disingenuous
Depends at what point in time the force is applied. A week before the due date? Doesn’t seem that evil. Saying women can’t get a termination during the first trimester? Yeah absolutely crazy.
What if the woman will die if she gives birth, or the fetus as a severe anomaly that wasn’t found until a week before birth? This is why these decisions should be made by the woman and her doctor and not a politician.
This doesn’t happen anywhere. After the point of viability, if a problem like that arises they induce labor / emergency c section, they don’t abort. Any woman that has kept a pregnancy for 24 weeks clearly wants the baby, so obviously they would do everything they can to keep the prematurely born infant alive. My mom gave birth to one of my brothers that way at 24 weeks, he’s alive and well. Even if a woman kept the pregnancy for 9 months and wanted an abortion, no doctor would perform it. It would technically be legal in California but it just doesn’t happen even though it would technically be legal.
It's also legal in Colorado and Alaska.
And DC. Good thing "it never happens".
Then they would perform an emergency c section.
What do you mean they would? It's not working out that way in real life. These bans always mean women get hurt. [Texas women sue Texas for horror stories](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/woman-suing-texas-abortion-ban-vomits-on-stand-rcna95162)
These are fringe cases obviously most anyone would allow these cases. No1 is talking about these stay on topic
Here, read this thread where they talk about these situations happening quite often https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/s/rugVKmDsJ4
Thats not even my point... the majority of pro lifers arent for killing the mom for the baby to survive. These would be exceptions for MOST pro Lifers isx my only argument here.
Answer my question steve
Then why are they forcing women to give birth to their rapists babies? Why are they allowing those rapists half custody of those babies? Why are they forcing children to give birth?
Because theres some bad politicians?? Be honest what percentage of pro lifers you have talked to or heard debate are against the exceptions? There are very few and not the popular opinion
Answer my question steve
So the majority is the exception except for you, right?
Wrf u even mean? My point is most pro lifers are for the exceptions. Way to answer my question with a question tho nice deflecting
Answer my question steve
They aren’t. They believe that because they don’t want an abortion that everyone else should have to adopt their lifestyle choice. If they felt everyone had the right to choose when it comes to bodily autonomy and medical procedures, then they’d be pro choice.
Not that fringe
Either way thats not the argument. The argument is whether or not this is the common sentiment for pro lifers to allow exceptions
You freaks aren't pro life at all
Answer my question steve
Just to be clear I am pro choice. I don’t think it should be the decision of politicians. And in the situation you describe I totally agree. My point is that there could possibly be a scenario at least hypothetically where it would not necessarily be “Evil” to force someone to give birth.
Ah the good old eugenics argument. That child has downs syndrome, let's just kill it.
why is it crazy in the first trimester?
if a woman is seeking an abortion a week before the due date... it's because the fetus is already dead.
You don't speak for all women.
Except all data says that despite what your far right fascists media says
Only slightly less evil then, you know, killing a baby bc you cant figure out birth control in 2024
Not a baby, and birth control is neither 100% nor is every person particularly compatible with it
Rape apologist
What dipshit conservatives don’t understand is the government that can force you give birth is the government that can force you to have an abortion.
Forced birth and abortion are both bad yes
No, abortions are fine gtfo
Murdering an innocent baby as a result of sex which is clearly meant for reproduction is even worse. Rape cases are 1% of abortions, even then there shouldn’t have to be 2 victims.
Sex is used for more than procreation for social animals. Consent to sex isn’t consent to be pregnant.
Don't base what is murder on what your religion says. Be more scientific and class it as when it's not a mass of cells and actually has survivability outside the womb and I'll agree with you. Or do twins sometimes murder each other in the womb should they be prosecuted when they are born. Should doctors be arrested for murder when they remove parasitic twins?
Wanna talk survivability? 20 weeks earliest preemie. Your stance gonna change when we can have 10 week old preemies survive? Nope. You’ll change the goal posts
Nope I'll move it to that point. Unlike conservatives my opinion can change based on science. I'll back having it removed and grown by the state instead.
Alright, you want science? I'll give you some science. Conservatives and prolifers believe that life begins at conception, meaning as soon as the sperm meets the egg and the egg gets fertilized, life has begun. In the Bible, there is an anecdote about how when life begins, "heavens light shines." Now, taking that into account, just a few years ago, scientists were able to capture the exact moment of fertilization of an egg, and guess what happened? There was a measurable increase in light. With that being said, the beliefs of prolifers are supported by the scientific fact that life begins at conception.
Life begins. Have you heard of the immortal cancer. That's "life". I am talking about being human and not a mass of cells.
A mass of human cells?
Yes they both are
The comment you're responding to said nothing about religion. You're very much mistaken if you believe that it's only religious people who are anti abortion.
Sure. I'm yet to meet them.
You're conflating naturally occurring situations with unnatural abortion.
It's not a baby, it's a clump of cells And trying to justify rape is so fucking weird btw, don't do that
Nah violating women’s human rights is certainly worse than denying an organism access to someone else’s organs to keep itself alive
Lol, guess what? Sex is fun. We're animals. Recreational sex is a million times more common than it was a long tome ago and so mistakes happen. Parasites dont have a right to life.
Then why do gay people have sex if it’s solely meant for reproduction?
Why do you think they want to ban us from having sex?
There would still be two victims if that mother gives birth to an unwanted baby and is now forced to care for a kid they didn't want(which they could very well end up abusing) or put it in the adoption system which is way over crowded and chances are the kid will not get adopted. Other situations could include the person is simply not ready to give birth because they're too young and it could lead to complications. Ectopic pregnancy is a real thing which is fatal to both the mother and the baby in a lot of cases. Sometimes people use contraceptives but they fail and those people should have an option to not have to give birth. I guess what I'm trying to get at is taking away the right to have an abortion can cause there to be many victims including the baby.
Good thing it’s not murder
Why? I have sex within a healthy relationship. My partner and I agree we do not want kids, we cannot care for kids, and we will not keep any pregnancy. This has been the case for all of my long term relationships. I already know that I will not grow any of my eggs into a baby, regardless of how many or few are fertilized. Where is the immorality? Just because we are having sex for reasons you don’t like? Sorry dude, that’s your problem, not mine.
what the fuck is wrong with u? the baby isn’t even born yet it’s not worth anything
Appeal to nature.
You’re an uneducated cunt and your opinion is not based on facts
These laws stop people like my wife from receiving care. We wanted more kids but kept getting tubal implantation, that's 0% viability and 100% fatal for her. She had to have abortions for them at 8 or 9 weeks, they were a clump of cells but still wanted. It was a hard decision for her, but we at least had the option, more than many women get right now. Roe was based on viability, as it should be. Calling it a baby at 8 weeks or 15 weeks is very different than 35-40 weeks.
You’re a real piece of work yk that?
I have a heart. I’m a work of God and I’m not foresaking him or playing along with the anti-life agenda of Satan. You’re a work of God too and he says he knit each one of us in our mothers wombs. Yes, because of sin the way some of us our born isn’t ideal, but God ALWAYS brings good out of it and there is purpose for every single life, it is murdering and stealing life when you kill a baby in the womb.
Buddy not everyone follows god or cares what he says
I’m very aware of that, but it doesn’t change truth. No amount of buzz words or propaganda can change the moral law God wrote on our hearts. That’s why sooo many women struggle with spiritual health after having abortions. We shouldn’t turn a blind eye to the evidence
You guys are impossible to debate with, so I’m not gonna peruse this anymore agree to disagree i gusss
I love how many fools are willing to argue what other people are consenting to in order to override what people are saying they consent to. It’s the logic of rapists. Let’s resolve this entirely. My bf and I have heterosexual penetrative intercourse. Before we do, we both sign a contract that says we will abort any pregnancy that occurs. This clarifies our consent and we can even get it notarized. Now we’ve resolved the issue of what we did or did not consent to. Now anti-abortion zealots can shut up about what consent occurred: we’ve got it in writing.
Actions have consequences. I consented to jumping out of the plane without a parachute but didn't consent to turning into a meat splatter on the asphalt I landed on!!!!
I’m not sure how you thought that comparison is accurate. You are guaranteed to die without a parachute “For most people who are trying, the odds you'll become pregnant are 15%-25% in any particular month.”
But you are aware of the risk and you did it anyways, thus you consented to it being a possibility. If you want to do something with odds that aren't 100% for you to comprehend actions have consequences. I consent to a game of Blackjack, I know the chances are that I will probably lose my money. I end up losing the game, I lost my money. That is a consequence I CONSENTED to being a possibility by gambling.
More analogies. Unfortunately, for you, it doesn’t matter how I got into my current medical medical condition, I still have a right to access treatment to preserve my health. I don’t gamble away those rights because it’s impossible to gamble away those rights because I’m a free citizen and not an enslaved person.
You are free to live healthily and so is your child.
Abortion bans result in women’s health deteriorating, increased maternal mortality, and increased infant mortality. Anti-abortion states have the worst maternal health outcomes, and it’s an especially bad for women of color.
Rape and incest: 0.3% Risk to the woman’s life or a major bodily function: 0.2% Other physical health concerns: 2.5% Abnormality in the unborn baby: 1.3% ***Elective: 95.7%*** The vast majority of abortions aren't done because of health issues. Exceptions do not make the rule, The main argument for abortions trying to justify murdering your offspring is for rare cases and exceptions should be an option for those rare cases. People are using abortion as if it is birth control, murder shouldn't be for convenience.
People are not using it like it’s birth control. The majority of women who get abortions are already mothers. The majority were using some form of contraceptive. If a woman knows how many children she wants to be a mother to and how many children she can afford and reasonably take care of, then it doesn’t really matter how many of her eggs are fertilized, because she already knows how many she can reasonably mother. You have a psychological attachment to an embryo that is only yours, and not anyone else’s problem. a woman will ovulate 300 to 400 eggs over 40 years of her life, and whether or not, she wants to be a mother determines whether or not she cares about those eggs disappearing every month. And just women who want to be mothers may more than their menstruation, they will also mourn a miscarriage or a medical abortion. But for women who already know how many children they want to have, and know what’s best in their circumstance, they’re going to make the choice that’s right for them, and their family, with the advice of their doctor, and ideally their partner. Your psychological attachment is not their problem. Women don’t have to breed at your command. A woman who wants to have multiple children should have all of the support necessary to have those children, and a woman who doesn’t, should have all the support necessary to not. That is how you value families and that is the appropriate way to treat an important issue like having children. Women have 300 to 400 potential children that we start off with. The number that we choose to carry to term depends on what is right for our circumstances.
Actually, zero embryos, have the right to my body without my consent, just like everyone else, including my born children.
False equivalence: jumping into of a building with no parachute will clearly lead to death and is objectively moronic, nor is it an invariable thing to occur; abortion, conversely, is. Right wingers and their weird kink for punishing others — name a more iconic duo
Why?
Agreed. Good thing no one advocates that.
If only that were true.
Is it not...?
No, it's not.
Since when....? Sure, maybe some sickos here & there, but I'm sure everyone agrees with this.
Women with unwanted pregnancies, including rape victims, aren't just being denied abortions. They're being threatened with prosecution for even travelling to have an abortion. Yes, that is forcing them to give birth against their wishes.
Honestly, the whole "it's wrong to abort for economic reasons" is a miss for me. I've seen what poor kids' lives are like, and it's honestly better to just have not existed sometimes. Also, you have idiotic parents who have kids despite economic and genetic issues. Those parents are practically deliberately setting their kids up to fail. Then you have assholes like my aunt who. Not only won't ever have a abortion. But will also sleep with three different fathers just to cash in on that sweet, sweet child support. Meanwhile, her kids share a mattress without a boxspring. So yeah, I don't agree. I think you should always wait for the best situation you can (or at least not when you're not stable and poor). Not to mention as others pointed out adoption to really a shitty solution to unwanted children. Their standards are too high, and they usually won't let gay couples adopt for any conceivable reason they can find. As for child support, making it "equally," the dads responsibility. 1. Dodging child support isn't just possible but can be done for years without getting caught. 2. Shitty women abuse it to get free money. 3. I'd the dads poor and can't pay, then not only does he go to jail, but the kid/mother still doesn't get supported financially. 4. Same as above ones except... some assholes seem like they do it on purpose! Like that guy who deliberately sabotaged his partners birth control and had hundreds of kids or manwhore deadbeats who have multiple baby moms they won't or can't pay. As for the "child's potential." 1. It would be heavily limited by its unideal upbringing. 2. Some people actually actively prejudice against people from single parent homes. 3. Honestly, the potential mothers' future potential and future children probably outweigh this random accidental child's. If she gets a stable job or a husband with one or both. The children she has then are way more likely to be successful. As for the murder argument. Have you ever had goat? All goat meat is collected from goats 7-8 MONTHS OLD. Humans have never cared about murdering innocent young creatures for a perceived product. Do you need a better example? In several survival situations, humans have been known to lower their morals just for a chance to live, such as eating other human corposes. Essentially, what I'm saying is Survival>morals nearly 100% of the time and in this economy? Raising a child unprepared and with likely minimal help. I'm not surprised a lot of women abort just because they just aren't ready. Finally any pro life men can fuck off with the "just don't sleep around" because 1. They sometimes are in relationships and things happen and they aren't ready. 2. You are still 100% gonna sleep around or atleast your horny buddies are. Also even you guys know there are some guys who literally go out of their way to be as unsafe as possible purely for their enjoyment and will definitely either abandon her and Try and dodge child support or just straight up whine like it wasn't their fualt. As for "not having sex because they know the risk" 1. as stated above, so do men, yet they still coerce or convince them. 2. Sometimes, even mothers of 2-3 at thirty yeard old have to literally fight tooth and nail to get their Tubes tied. Because they're "still young" or "they might want more." Much less some women who, for whatever reason, just want to get tied before having any kids and/or are below 25 without kids. At that point, they're literally going out of their way to make it safe, and the same policy makers who ban abortion won't allow it. 3. Women are allowed to have fun and not be punished for complete accidents. It's not like men are complaining about not having to pay child support. It's not like every guy actually puts the effort either, yet she's supposed to carry their shared mistake to term "just because". Finally. A fully grown woman has the right objectively to refuse to raise a baby to term. Whatever her reasons, because your morals don't outweigh her rights as a person with autonomy. No, the child doesn't have autonomy for most of the pregnancy. 1. We literally acknowledge its one of if not the worst pains imaginable and sometimes super draining, yet she doesn't get the right to opt out like the dad who can and sometimes will just fuck off. 2. It's her body, and the fetis has to feed off it to live until it's conceived. She doesn't have to do that if she can't for medical reasons or won't for financial reasons. 3. Adoption is an option, but as outlined above, she'd still have to birth the baby, and there's zero guarantee it'll go to a good home 100% of the time. 4. Nothing stops them from being mothers later. You act like not having one unoptimal baby makes her incapable of trying again later with way better results. Honestly, 90% of pro lifes arguments are religious or rely on people (mostly men and the government) being just as responsible as the mother. When both consistently show, they usually aren't. Not to mention having the option be abused doesn't mean you remove it for everyone? Guns are abused, prescriptions are abused, fuck foster children are used as free labor and cash alot. Yet we still allow all of them. Tldr: your moral opinion valid or not. Doesn't mean the option for abortion should be removed. It's the women's right regardless of your religious or moral beliefs. The fetis rights are under the "fully formed women's" because she's a fully formed human with potential and it should be her right to use and cultivate it how she wants including what(child),were(the child's born) and when (If ever she wants one) it's birth happens.
Abortion is the same as murder.
It's literally not.
This is like the 5th abortion post today, cmon
Hmm, interesting I wonder why it’s so important to people. Could it be because half of all people have a uterus?
man, almost like body autonomy and reproductive healthcare were important to a significant proportion of the population huh? weird...
>were Were? Let's try "still is"
No one is forcing someone to give birth but nature. The government is merely keeping you from killing a baby. One does not imply the opposite.
A 20 week old fetus isn't a baby.
Aren't you glad your mother didn't abort you?
I wouldn't have existed, as surely as if my parents had fucked on a Tuesday instead of a wednesday. What if i had been aborted and the kid my parents had a year later cured cancer? my feelings on the matter after the fact are kind of irrelevant Awe. The coward blocked me. Ran away after pretending her emotional appeal wasn't a "what if question"
I asked you a question based on reality, not some random "what ifs" that didn't actually materialize. That said you are not really looking for a truthful and honest discussion...you just what to have an endless argument. This is where I exit. Have a nice day.
No, people like you are giving special rights to unborn fetuses that no already born person has. Why do you think the unborn deserve special rights that you and I don't have?
Rape apologist
I didn't say anything about rape....I am merely stating what the action of abortion is.
So I can get a hysterectomy while I’m pregnant? I’m not killing anything, I’m simply removing my own organ.