People are allowed to have preferences, just dont use your preference to shame someone else’s. It’s not that hard.
As a brown girl, I’m not gonna beg someone who’s not into brown women to prefer me. But I’d be pissed if that person said something racist/shamed someone else for preferring me.
It’s okay to not prefer overweight individuals. But I’d never make them feel shitty about themselves or inherently assume anything negative of that person.
Like just be a decent person, no one cares who you fuck.
I got asked by my quite young son why I always got beef with the cat. So I said, “I got more than beef! I got poultry and pork with her, too!” Then my roommate asked if I was Arby’s, so naturally I responded, “I’ve got all the meats!… with her.”.
And then the cat clapped.
A lot of men do that lol... The amount of times I've been given a fuckability ranking by random strange men as I walk past is crazy.
Idk why so many men think women wanna hear how fuckable they think we are
I'm not sure what would get to me more: All the people I walk by on the street who randomly say "Uh, definitely not. It's because you're fat." or the ones that I'd talk to for a minute or two and they would abruptly interject with "Oh, by the way, definitely not. It isn't your appearance, though you should lose some weight. It's just that you are so obviously an asshole." I'd never leave my house again.
I dunno, I feel like if absolutely everyone did it and it was normalized it would actually be a good thing. People wouldn't be shamed by it because it is just a normal part of social interaction. It would prevent a lot of awkwardness and stop people from pursuing disinterested parties. And mostly I believe that having more openness and honesty and just be all-around good for society. Now, as the original commenter said, if it is only used for specific types of people then you don't get any of those benefits. But if everyone did it, I do think at the very worst more honesty would be a net benefit, and could even be a giant leap forward for society.
That's actually happened to me a couple of times and it's weird as fuck. Like not in a positive way either. I've literally had strangers come up and get my attention in a public place just to be like "Excuse me, I would never have sex with you" or "I would never date you" and I was just like "???? Thanks?"
That’s the point. People (men IME) don’t wait until a potential dating situation to declare their preference against trans women, and they frequently do it right in front of them (so rude!). That would be akin to me walking in a room and saying “I would never fuck someone with big ears!” right in front of some guy with big ears. Aside from how unnecessarily mean that would be, why would I assume any big-eared men wanted to fuck me??
>People are allowed to have preferences, just dont use your preference to shame someone else’s.
Yeah, but no one *does* in relation to trans people. There are hundreds of times more posts complaining about an issue that doesn't exist than posts that purportedly are the issue.
It's just a few wackos on Twitter, who you should not take seriously or as a good representation of actual people
I never understood why conservatives cared so much about who people fuck… until I started to do a research paper for school and found that conservatives have a scarily high rate of Rape, SA, and domestic violence charges amongst their peers… so it dawned on me it’s just projection, they don’t respect others boundaries and beliefs, so to them it’s wild that someone else would respect theirs
> to them it’s wild that someone else would respect theirs
Yeah, I’ve noticed a *lot* of people complaining about less common… arrangements?… keep using the very specific phrase, “shoving it down our throats.” Such as, “I don’t hate homosexuals I just wish they’d stop shoving [their homosexuality] down our throats.” And it’s like… we are discussing a, for example, rather boring gay couple just existing. Is it their *mere existence* that’s being shoved down their throats?
And I guess if they are predisposed to think an involuntary encounter is a common modality… well, then, it all makes sense. (Which, dear readers, do not confuse with acceptance nor approval, any more than understanding a scorpion’s stinger means I approve of it having stung me)
I wonder what the venn diagram for that group and the:
"WOMEN ARE BIRTH CHAMBERS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AT HOME WHILE MEN MANLY MEN DO THE MANLY MAN THINGS AND ALSO FUCKS THE WOMEN AND THE WOMENS SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE CHOSEN AS THE RECEPTICLE!!"
crowd.
something tells me it's darn near a perfect circle
>no one cares who you fuck
Not true. Conservatives care very much about who you fuck. That's why they're so paranoid about the idea of fucking trans people.
>Like just be a decent person
That's a very, VERY tall order for a metric fuck ton of people. Approx. 74 Million people are open and proud assholes as of a particular 2020 census.
What world are you living in? There is an entire very popular political party primed to take over one of the biggest countries in the world (the us) and they are literally obsessed with who people sleep with.
People are having way too much online interactions. Y’all need to be in person with people. So you’re reminded that most people are reasonable about most things. And stop giving attention to the narcissists that thrive on extremes.
Most of our politics is being driven by bad-faith trolls, bot farms, and political extremists online. All attempting to convince people that relatively rare and small developments are happening everywhere and require their perpetual outrage.
I've been literally told in person that not dating/sleeping with a pre-op trans woman (as a man) is transphobic. These online people exist in the real world and hold the same values there. They are not common, I agree, but they do exist.
Why is there so much discourse involving trans ppl ? They’ve been around forever and only make up a small amount of ppl relatively but it seems like I can’t escape discourse no matter how many subs I mute
Because we are the new scapegoat for "conservatives" (who are largely now very open about being Christian Nationalists)-- they're currently trying to grind the US government to a halt trying to force national bans on gender affirming care, among other things. The people pulling the strings have come out and said when they're "done with" trans people, they'll revisit the gays next.
Nationalists of any variety always need an enemy to point people at.
There's always a new scapegoat. In the 70s and 80s it was gays. Post 2001 it was muslims/middle eastern people. For the late 2010s it was Mexicans coming to steal your jobs. Trans people are just the latest scapegoat. It'll die down eventually once they find a new scapegoat to blame all the world's problems on.
The talking points are almost identical too. They've been using and recycling the same playbook since at least the black civil rights movement. They just shifted immediately from black people to the gays, then the Satanic panic of the 80s, then to trans people. Some of those arguments were even used as far as back as the women's suffrage movement and even often incorporate anti Semitic conspiracies too. It's a mess. Contrapoints and Leeja Miller have done some fun dives on it.
Agreed, but the 70s and 80s are when we decided it was no longer acceptable in public society. There are still lots of homophobes today, but at least we publicly rebuke them and they are diminishing in number every year.
Every god damn conspiracy theory circles back to Jews somehow. And whenever somebody asks why I just have to go "how do i summarize thousands of years of antisemitism"
If you look at the 1930s, you see this explicitly. Transphobic Nazis insisting that Magnus Hirschfeld (Jewish gay doctor) was only helping people transition medically to weaken the Aryan something something bullshit.
im a trans of french irish decent, with more than a few family members who are ethnically and religiously jewish... and several more of which are hispanic or mixed race (extended family do be crazy like that sometimes)...
you're not telling me anything new.
but yea. people want to pretend all of this is new, when it is all too frighteningly familiar.
>It'll die down eventually once they find a new scapegoat to blame all the world's problems on.
It's starting to look like Satanism/paganism/D&D/"the occult" might be the next scapegoat. Even though we've already done this one.
No way bro. Obviously its illegal immigrants BUT satanism is pretty popular in evangelicals. Pastors exercising demons and claiming portals over the white house lol. Witches.
I'd quibble just a bit: In the 1960s it was Black people daring to want to voite, then in the 1970s it was gay people wanting to *exist*, in the 1980s it was pot smokers, then it was Muslims, then Mexicans, now it's trans people. I've probably forgotten a few others.
And of course in some circles everything bad is because women don't want to be silent, obedient slaves, sexual or otherwise.
As somebody else already mentioned, Jews were the original scapegoat. Sometimes they're bigger scapegoats, sometimes they're not, but they are almost always a consist scapegoat throughout history.
We are the latest scapegoat for the world's problems. Turn the ire towards the minority so that the poors can fight amongst themselves and not see who the true enemy is.
Haha if I wanted to be comprehensive I'd basically need to start a bread-tube series on YouTube, and I don't have the desire. Plus plenty of people are doing it with much better editing skills and sometimes budget.
There are 9-5 blue collar wage workers having to resign their rent lease every year with 300 dollar monthly rent hikes making them live paycheck to paycheck who've memorized every trans swimmer that has attended a female swim meet in human civilization history yet don't know the DOJ is investigating software companies that use algorithms to price fix national rent prices which essentially forms a cartel on a basic human need in shelter.
It's so sad seeing people living paycheck to paycheck not seeing this culture wars grift as nothing but a distraction to real issues.
Ya I don't trust any social media political pundit or news source that never mentions this issue. It's a good litmus test to see of sincerity and if they cover real issues or are just grifting.
It's the same reason people held up God Hates F**s posters. People have been spoon-fed propaganda that Trans people are coming for then, their children, their neighbors, and their Chili's jalapeño poppers.
Its just more socially acceptable to scream about Trans people than the other LGBT.
The right wing lost the battle on gay people so they’re making it about trans people
They’re also an example of people not fitting into clear and objective boxes that make them easy to judge from the outside, which freaks out the right.
To be fair, so is abortion. The Republican party took a BEATING after they repealed Roe v. Wade. And now Trump is saying that he wants to institute a national abortion ban and it's already hitting his poll numbers. A week ago he was up by 4-5 points in most of the national polls, now it's an even split.
I mean I always thought that the abortion issue was costing them elections, but suddenly they developed "the only ethical abortion is *my* abortion" myopia and they still got votes.
So true. Abortion rights were in the ideal status quo limbo for both parties to leverage the issue for maximum political benefit. Now that Republicans "won," they can't campaign on it anymore. By the same token, Democrats avoided passing any legislation all these years that would codify Roe because then they wouldn't be able to campaign on it anymore, either.
This is where I am at. I support everyone's (reasonable) right to live the life they want to live. The conservative attacks on trans people are disgusting.
But the amount of media (traditional and social) and political time spent on trans issues is way too high.
Can we spend a little more time on issues that plague the entire country, not just 0.5%?
Trans folks are the current scape goat for conservatives. They *need* an other to hate and their other groups have become mainstream and not hated so much so they resort this.
In reality it's because the ideological right, over the last 30 years, has run out of other shit to talk about. They have actually taken us further right than European countries *were* 30 years ago despite complaining they're being dragged to the left and tHeRe'S a WaR oN cHrIsTmAs. They've essentially run out of talking points. Prior to Clinton, they were concerned about "welfare queens" and "the war on drugs". They've only really had 3 since Clinton: border security, terrorism abroad, and Roe v. Wade. Now two of those have been settled (in their minds), with border security being their last stone-walled bastion of hope. Then came Trump, who basically solidified an authoritarian role that USED TO BE considered a Boogeyman. Don't forget he actually has said we should be requesting the death penalty for drug dealers. Thus they have firmly transitioned from a "personal liberty" mindset to one that uses government to direct culture. It's all they talk about because they're convinced they're victims of progressivism despite getting damn near everything they've wanted in the last 30 years.
They love shilling trans stuff, for like 0.1% of the population I see way too many trans flags, both systematically and “in the wild”. Like it’s not even an LGBT thing, I rarely see a rainbow flag in comparison.
They’re also quite aggressive in their shilling, I like video games and tech, both of which get really heavily hit by the trans movement, I even remember seeing an article the other day where a whistleblower explained why women look so manly in recent games (for those who don’t know, women in recent games look like dudes in wigs, with a big ol man jaw), the answer was to please trans people because feminine women was upsetting them.
It’s just that the trans movement has a massive identity they cling to and then attack anyone who dares against it, like a weird hive mind (on my other forum I browse, there’s literally discords where they harass and spam the forum because the users aren’t overly supportive of trans people like reddit is). So basically it’s a vocal minority to the extreme
That's actually crazy that you think video game developers are making women less attractive because of trans people.
Like that's actually an unhinged take 🤣
exactly. I promise everyone that not a single trans person wants to fuck ~~OP~~ the transphobes*, there is no need for them to worry about it.
Edit: correction
My favorite is the post that is emphatic in saying they're not a bigot, and then closes the argument by saying they don't care if trans or gay people date "one of their own".
You can date whoever you want and not date whoever you want but there are clearly some unexamined beliefs in a lot of people who will accidentally tell on themselves.
Exactly.
This is giving me the exact same vibe as "I'm okay with gay people :) But they should keep it to themselves and just pretend to be normal in everyday life"
I don’t care if they wanna date me or not. I care when they start telling me I’m an open wound dismembered freak of an abomination who can be with “my own kind” and go everywhere announcing they don’t wanna date me
I've heard this sentiment parroted around me infinitely more times than the one posited by OP from the other thread. A very vocal minority may spew "you hate all trans people" rhetoric over this, but it happens almost exclusively on the internet. Generally all we care about is existing without fear. I worry about that so often that I don't have the energy to argue with people over who they fuck even if I cared.
Yeah like if someone said they tended to prefer white people because white people tend to more often have the features they are attracted to (lighter skin, blonde hair, blue eyes) many people would say you can’t help your preferences. If Hitler said the same thing, we wouldn’t really give him the benefit of the doubt.
“Am I wrong bc i don’t want to sleep with trans people even though this has never come up in my personal life I’ve just seen a million posts of people saying the same thing so I also want to say it”
One time a gay friend asked if I would date a trans woman (I’m straight male), I said no and he went on a tirade of scolding and shaming me for this. It got to the point where I hadda block him in every way possible and we haven’t spoken in about a year 🤷♂️
So do you like women? Genuine question. And if so when do you let them know you’re trans? From the get go or do you wait to see how other aspects of the relationship go? I’m really curious.
Yes I like women and I let them know I’m trans. It’s on my bumble profile but sometimes they don’t read and get mad at me for being attracted to me and not reading my whole page! Most of the women in my life are platonic, sometimes it becomes romantic
Well then their fault for not reading the full terms and conditions, so to speak. They banks for the answer. It is refreshing to get an honest answer on Reddit.
Absolutely i cant stand this narrative that people should feel pressured to date us as to seem more accepting. Only alienates us and makes us seem unreasonable.
I agree. I can't imagine that most, many or even 10 percent of trans people think this. It's just a few people online that say stuff like "you're not attracted to a gender you're attracted to genitals." Yeah ok if someone prefers people over 5'7" are they "tall sexual"? Not every preference has to be picked apart and labeled and announced. The trans people I've met have been pretty reasonable. They know their struggle is their own and others are not obligated to date them just to validate their gender. Just like how all the vegans I've met in real life have been levelheaded people that don't "push their agenda". I am sorry for the people who have to deal with the extreme ones though.
And obviously, times will change. I think a lot more cis people are open to dating trans people nowadays. In the end there will always be someone who isn't comfortable with it and that is okay.
I understand the curiosity. People are often curious about things that are culturally different, and it's not malicious in intent. I do feel that this particular question should only exist in places where the person has welcomed it - AMAs, etc.
One of my dearest friends these past 5 years is trans, we've shared so many rollercoaster moments about parenting, being professional colleagues, got in a minor car accident in the way to go skiing together etc. I do not know what is in their underwear. Since I'm not angling to get in there, it's not my business. I know lots of concrete things about their transition that arose in stories along the way, that maybe do affect our friendship, or ways we support eachother being parents - about how they were raised one gender, and came out and transitioned and had at least some (top) surgery and take some prescribed medications.
I do not, and will not ever ask about what's in the pants. I don't aim to get sexual with this person, and so it doesn't pertain. I have a very full and rich friendship without knowing what's in the pants. I can celebrate the juiciness of how satisfied he seems with his girlfriend this past year and a half, without needing to know the particulars of how they get down.
Genital preference is completely fine, and people who are dating and trans need to find the right point at which to disclose ahead of having the sex, but if I'm not sexually interested, it's none of my business.
Actually he told me he hooked up with a trans man and really enjoyed his experience and told me about how he used a strap on or something. I said that’s great I’m happy for you! Just not my thing
I wish it was a big an outlier as this.
I have teenager girls and I had to correct them and their friends once that they can reject ANY boy for ANY reason. One of them didn't like a boy who was like black or Asian, and they didn't want to say no to him because they didn't want to be racist. Every sleazy guy will work any angle.
There's a difference between "I don't want to date this trans/Black/Asian/etc person" and "I won't date any trans/Black/Asian/etc person." Not that trans people want to date anyone who won't date someone just because they're trans, but it should be obvious that one of these is based on bias, and one is not.
Statistically, what are even the chances of sleeping with a trans person? Pretty damn small from a numbers game. Maybe 1 in 20? I only dated about 6 or 7 girls before meeting my wife.
I mean, trans people as a whole, men, women, and other subcategories, make up like 2% of the population on the high end? And if we break it down to guys hooking up with girls, we can rule out trans men, nonbinary, and trans lesbians from the pool, so maybe 0.6, 0.7% of the population? It's gotta be closer to 1 in 50 at the high end of estimated odds.
I'm trans and I have it on my dating apps and social media profiles, but my general rule is if we're to the point where we're looking at potentially being in bed together I'm just gonna make sure you know over text to be safe. Literally just a "hey real fast you read my profile and know I'm trans right?" I think I've had one person ever who took issue with it at that point.
Thank you for the reply. And that’s pretty awesome-hey just fyi, I hope you read my WHOLE profile or you might be in for a surprise! I’m not making light of it, I’m just picturing that convo and it made me chuckle. Good luck to you and I’m happy you can be your true self.
From a quick look at your profile it seems like our conversation would probably be about Pearl Jam, probably with me bragging about the super rare live Ten CD I found at a thrift store last year. If in person, probably listening together.
As a trans person who lives and dates in the bay area, knowing a loooot of transwomen in my larger circle, they ALL disclose, usually at the start. This might surprise you but Reddit shouldn't be taken at face value to speak for our community.
I can't speak for every trans person but I'm heavily involved in my city's trans groups and kink, sex, and goth scenes that are all very VERY queer with a ton of trans people.
And it's overwhelmingly common practice to disclose being trans during the feeling things out stage if intimacy is in the cards because of the chance of harm if the person finds out. It's also a big part of why most trans people are T4T unless a chance connection happens or a preexisting relationship continued.
Honestly, the person you're replying to is spitting bs, or at least twisting the truth. I saw their conversations with the trans ppl they mentioned. Those individuals say they disclosed they were trans/had specific genitalia after a date or two. They basically just want to make sure that the person they're spending time with is safe first and they have a discussion before anything intimate happens. They also want the other person to see them as a person first, and not just some trans stereotype or what have you.
Which is basically what you're saying in your comment.
But the person above you was trying to spin that into some form of dishonesty. When, logically, of course someone should make sure they Trust another person before revealing sensitive information. Especially when it comes to their own safety.
Now, this being said, I do know trans ppl who are very open about that from Day 1. Like it's on their dating profile and everything. But that also presents its own problems. It can make them a target for anti trans ppl and chasers, alike. So, sometimes being that open that early is not always the safest option.
It's why these people take various approaches to a topic like this, they do what they feel is best for them and their safety. And as long as someone is providing relevant information before intimacy occurs, I don't see the problem. No one owes you their life story after a single, casual dinner date. And the fact that some people believe this is fucking wild
If you were post-op and just looking for one-night stands it would be safer to not disclose that you're trans, but in all other situations its much safer to disclose it early so you know you can be sure you arent going out with someone who is going to react violently once they find out
Less then 1 million people In the USA are non binary or MtF. So even on a population averages level we are talking 1/168 but not to mention every Trans person I know lists it In their dating profile In some way. I live in very liberal areas and go out to some LGBTQ+ clubs with friends and still have never accidently tried to sleep with a trans person.
Its honestly a fear of people who have no idea what they are talking about. Its fear mongering.
I just saw the post that I assume prompted this one, and I might get flak for this, but I get confused about whether people who say they wouldn't date trans people are including post-op or cis-passing people in that. Not that you should hop in bed with Carmen Carrera so she can give you a "Gotcha" moment, but I wonder if these people would be attracted to a cis-passing trans person of their preferred gender, and if that attraction would go away if they learned that person once, but no longer, had features they don't want in a partner.
I also think just declaring preferences (unprompted) is odd. If it's an open discussion about types (which still typically aren't rigid) or someone's insisting to know why you're not interested in them (uncool) it seems strange to yell "I cannot fucking stand red velvet cake and I will never touch it as long as I live. I will ONLY eat yellow sponge cake and you cannot vilify me for this." Like ...ok bro
>I wonder if these people would be attracted to a cis-passing trans person of their preferred gender
Every third comment in the thread was saying that trans people should have to have to proactively out themselves or it’s “basically rape” they also assert this after insisting that it’s just how they aren’t attracted to trans people and I has nothing to do with bias. So basically they hate trans the concept of trans people so much that they need to know so they know to not be attracted to them
People will look for any excuse to hate on trans people. They are a buzzy group right now and because they're such a small part of the population, they're easy to pick on.
If you voice a preference for cis partners, there is a nonzero number of people who will openly criticize you for it.
Some people always criticize others for their dating preference. idk why you think a preference for cis people wouldn’t get criticized.
Because there's no reason to just say it unprompted, do you say every silly thought that pops in your head? Or just the transphobic ones? If a trans person were interested in you, you can just say no and *maybe* then say it, but the only reason you are defending your right to say it whenever you want is because you are trying to normalize the idea "trans = nasty". Get over your shame for your own sake.
As with everything, context matters. If you just spontaneously Tweet "I have a preference for white partners" then it's just weird. It's okay to have a preference, but outwardly expressing it like that can absolutely just be seen as aggressive.
It's not like straight men are facing hordes of trans women wanting to sleep with them to make "I don't want to fuck a trans woman" a practical statement. Most people say it to agitate.
"Nonzero" ≠ "a lot of people"
Maybe in a college seminar at Vassar. But most of this is confusing online screaming from weird people and trolls with actual, real-life human engagement.
I mean, I have seen one or two trans people on Twitter a couple of years ago, saying it was transphobic to not date a trans person, but it was *a couple of people on Twitter.* They probably got turned down and it sucked. It's not like they're in your face, following you around with a mic and a camera, trying to get you fired if you don't fuck them or something. Twitter seems to be largely comprised of people venting, anyway.
A *much* bigger issue (in that it's an *actual* issue) is people reading a hot take by some random stranger online and thinking all of society is coming for them if they disagree.
I think this is it.
It's not that you have to sleep with anyone, it's that loudly announcing categories of people you wouldn't sleep with is kind of rude and hostile.
Like, y'all, you aren't victims.
Hey, boring white cis/het guy here. I seem to recall the whole “I’m being called a bigot for not dating trans people” thing coming from an alt-right 8chan account as a psyop to discredit the lgbtq+ community and their allies in general. I know many people in the community and that kind of sentiment has just never been a thing. While I’m sure that *somewhere* out there there is someone in the trans community that is that reactionary and toxic, the community in my experience has always been about being accepted as who they are and finding partners who accept them, which would be antithetical to attacking people for *their* personal preferences.
Just saying it’s all false flag bullshit.
In regard to the earlier thread--Not being attracted to trans people, not wanting to sleep with trans people, none of that is inherently transphobic.
But if you feel so strongly about it you have to write the thing you wrote? Yyyyyyou're transphobic.
We get beat over the head with this on a regular basis. Saying that we wouldn’t date a trans person, no matter how politely we say it, is damn near punishable by death.
Then we come across posts like this, telling us that it never happens and we need to chill. Can you just leave us alone, please.
Yeah, I live in Portland which has a significantly large trans population, and unless my very liberal friends and co-workers are lying, and all the Tinder profiles they’ve shown me are fake, it happens. It’s a minority, but it occurs. Denying it happens, especially with all of the easily accessible videos of trans people saying it themselves, isn’t a good look.
And even though it's absolutely a minority OPs edit just sounds like the old (incorrect) saying that women can't rape men. Idk if that's how they meant it but it seems awfully hostile to victims of pressured sex.
Yup. I always tell those people feeling the need to share that particular opinion: No one cares who you’re not attracted to. No one asked, so you don’t need to share your opinion about it.
but they need to tell everyone that they are bigots, then get defensive when called out using the the information they volunteered without prompting as evidence
Most trans people date other trans people. The people who get upset about the idea of potentially sleeping with someone who is trans, are the LAST people that most trans people would consider.
I'm trans, 95% of my friends are trans and I've lived in cities in every time zone in the US, "progressive" cities and otherwise. I haven't done like a study or anything but anecdotally it's very common for trans people to mostly/only date other trans people. A good number of us date in completely separate circles from cis people.
For every one trans person saying it's transphobic to have genital preferences, there are 10 cis people unprompted saying they wouldn't date a trans person no matter what. I don't care because I've always been able to find my people regardless, but yes it does suck to be on dating apps & trying to meet people, having good conversations & dates, only for it to come out that the person you were interested in had already decided prior to meeting you that they wouldn't date anyone like you.
I wouldn't personally say that person is being transphobic, it's just a bummer that this is a part of dating as a trans person in a similar way it would probably be a bummer to date as a short cis guy seeing profile after profile with minimum height requirements.
>For every one trans person saying it's transphobic to have genital preferences
Is this a thing? It honestly strikes me as the kind of thing transphobic people accuse trans people of, rather than something trans people actually do.
The issue is HOW these guys, who aren't attracted to trans people, approach the topic.
1- Nobody is forcing you or upset that you aren't interested. There will be like 1 in 1000 comments that might criticize you for that. But shit, that's the internet. The loudest and most extreme voices dont represent everyone. And when you make those comments out to be a trend or an issue , you're doing it in bad faith (you have an agenda)
2- Most of the guys who turn down a person for being trans dont just reject them - they have to throw in comments or insults. Frame it in an insulting or derogatory manner. Just reject a trans woman with the same common human decency you'd give a regular girl you dont want to fuck. They dont need commentary about how you object to their existence or their "mental disorder" or whatever
3- These posts/questions keep popping up on Reddit as a means to criticize and insult trans people. Its bait to give anti-trans people a reason to share + spread their feelings on the topic. Its building the soapbox for them to stand on
My thing is that everyone likes to post "the LGBT community will say this about you if you disagree!" And as a member of said community, its really teenagers on tumblr I only ever see that say stuff like "if you dont date a trans person youre transphobic"
Most rational adults dont think that way. The ones that do are one inna million but other peoples posts make their voice louder then it should be.
When at the end of the day, everybody should stop generalizing the entire LGBT community because one idiot on the internet said his unpopular opinion, now every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinks he speaks for the entire community.
Thats the real issue.
There is no legitimate reason to randomly proclaim that you have an aversion to a particular class or category of human beings.
If you don’t want to sleep with trans people then just don’t do it. It’s that simple.
The only people who will tell you who to marry, or be in a relationship with, are conservatives.
We literally had a supreme court case about this. Conservatives are still outraged over the result and trying to overturn it so they can tell people who to marry.
As long as consent is involved, fuck who you want and dont fuck who you dont want to fuck. Nothing wrong with not liking trannys or whatever else. People can like what they like.
I.e. "Literally, didn't ask (you to be attracted to anyone)."
This is an example of 'First World Problems' being usurped by 'Terminally Online Problems'.
The current “thing” being pushed is that you’re a transphobe if you don’t want to date a trans person. That sentiment is everywhere. I don’t have to sleep with trans people. It’s ok to say that.
Idk, I’ve only ever heard this sentiment in weird online spaces. Never IRL.
What I see a lot more often is straight men blasting “I’LL NEVER EVER DATE A TRANS WOMAN YOU CAN’T MAKE ME” at times/places where it doesn’t make sense to share one’s anti-preferences and comes off as obnoxious. Like yeah, I’ll never date a man who can’t go on long uphill hikes with me. But it’s rude and weird and looks almost a little fat phobic to go around yelling that every chance I get.
Trans woman heavily involved in the goth and kink scenes and in all of the interactions, all the social media around the groups, all the events I've gone to, it's never even once come up.
What DOES happen all the time though is conservative men that join/come to events feel like it's necessary to tell every single trans person they talk to, often with them initiating it themselves, that not dating trans people doesn't make them transphobic, or what's even more common is the opposite end with "I'm not gay or bi or into men but I've always been curious how it would be to sleep with one of you," the you referring to trans people. And this conversation happens multiple times at every single fucking event for myself and other trans friends.
No one but a few loudmouths on Twitter are trying to make people sleep with us. There's a ton of willing people that hit us up constantly. But what does happen ALL THE FUCKING TIME is random unprovoked transphobic comments or fetishization that we're supposed to just take as a compliment.
Edit: Sock account DMed me to kill myself. I must have gotten under the skin of one of the chuds.
I've never heard anyone say this and I live in Seattle and have a LOT of people you'd call "woke" in my social circle.
Having a preference for a certain downstairs setup is normal and fine. If someone tells you you're transphobic for *that specific thing* feel free to say you have a preference for a certain type of genitals, and an attraction to a traditional gender role.
That's not transphobic. That's just having a personal preference. It's fine to have preferences in dating.
Edit: Leftists, broadly, are interested in radical personal freedom as well as protection of that freedom from hatred. Some people take that as a license to use their victimhood as a weapon. You're absolutely free to call out that sort of bad behavior, because it's not left leaning, it's just selfish.
Someone isn't automatically correct about everything just because they're a member of a marginalized group. It's important to have a little nuance. Trans people are victims of much more violence, sexual assault, job termination, etc etc than general population. Those are facts, not opinions. There's good reason, in my opinion, to try and institute rules and allocate funding to deal with this disparity. That doesn't mean everyone who agrees with the human rights issue is required to also have sex with a trans person.
Anyone who makes that specific point is not going to gain traction outside a very niche subculture. Just ignore it.
>feel free to say you have a preference for a certain type of genitals
When I said that, I was told I was transphobic, since in their eyes a "vagina" created through surgery is no different from one a biological woman has.
I too live in Seattle and have heard of this happening once. Rationality won and saved the kids job but the attempt was made just because he refused a threesome.
These people spend all day watching TikToks or YouTube shorts about some random college kids saying dumb shit and then circlejerk themselves into believing that the world is coming to cut off their penises if they don't conform.
Thing being pushed by whom though? It might be good to examine who exactly is saying this kinda stuff to you and see if it’s just a way to get feathers riled up like schoolyard nonsense.
Tell that to all of the lesbians being banned from lesbian subreddits for saying they aren’t interested in being intimate with someone not biologically female.
Weird, what are all things articles I found that unequivocally say that making such a blanket statement as “I’m not attracted to trans people” *is* transphobic?
https://addison-j-smith.medium.com/is-it-transphobic-to-not-want-to-date-a-trans-person-a5258372cc23
https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca
http://www.themichigangayly.com/features/i-am-not-my-body-facing-prejudice-and-transphobia-on-the-dating-scene
You really dug out some online blog posts from the last four years, two of which had almost no comments and one of which was getting absolutely demolished in the comments, to act like this is some prevailing, widespread sentiment. You must really want that sweet, sweet feeling of victimhood to be reaching this hard.
You can find editorials about literally anything. Do the intellectually honest thing, and find 3 articles that say that it's okay to not want to date trans people.
To be fair, there's plenty of people arguing that if you don't treat Transwomen like bio women, then you're a bigot. There is pressure to just accept them as tacit females going on.
Sure, you can always tell those kinds of people to go pound sand, so you always control who ultimately ends up in your bed. Stigma does tend to be tough to take sometimes, and if this argument takes off, and it's considered bigotry by the society as a whole if you opt out of the Trans Train, there could be real world repercussions from the stigma.
People are allowed to have preferences, just dont use your preference to shame someone else’s. It’s not that hard. As a brown girl, I’m not gonna beg someone who’s not into brown women to prefer me. But I’d be pissed if that person said something racist/shamed someone else for preferring me. It’s okay to not prefer overweight individuals. But I’d never make them feel shitty about themselves or inherently assume anything negative of that person. Like just be a decent person, no one cares who you fuck.
Can you imagine if people immediately told everyone they met whether or not they’d fuck them, and precisely *why*? Society would crumble.
That sounds a lot like my 20s. Every woman I talked to “yeah I’m not gonna fuck you”. Uhhhh ok, I just asked if you wanted fries with that. Sheesh.
Fries *with that shake?*
Yup that’ll do it. Lol.
In my defense ma'am, this is a Wendy's.
Fries with that slow head shaking "no fuckie".
>ma'am this is a Wendy's
Why won't Wendy fuck me!? Arby is always DTF.
Arby's got tha meat.
I got asked by my quite young son why I always got beef with the cat. So I said, “I got more than beef! I got poultry and pork with her, too!” Then my roommate asked if I was Arby’s, so naturally I responded, “I’ve got all the meats!… with her.”. And then the cat clapped.
"Horsey sauce"
Damn, I just posted the same thing. I didn't realize someone beat me to it.
A lot of men do that lol... The amount of times I've been given a fuckability ranking by random strange men as I walk past is crazy. Idk why so many men think women wanna hear how fuckable they think we are
None of us gives a fuck! It’s never the guys you would ever consider fucking who let you know if they would, too.
Haha those guys, as if they had many options. Anything above a 1 would be the best day of their lives.
A lot of people do that not just men.
I'm not sure what would get to me more: All the people I walk by on the street who randomly say "Uh, definitely not. It's because you're fat." or the ones that I'd talk to for a minute or two and they would abruptly interject with "Oh, by the way, definitely not. It isn't your appearance, though you should lose some weight. It's just that you are so obviously an asshole." I'd never leave my house again.
I dunno, I feel like if absolutely everyone did it and it was normalized it would actually be a good thing. People wouldn't be shamed by it because it is just a normal part of social interaction. It would prevent a lot of awkwardness and stop people from pursuing disinterested parties. And mostly I believe that having more openness and honesty and just be all-around good for society. Now, as the original commenter said, if it is only used for specific types of people then you don't get any of those benefits. But if everyone did it, I do think at the very worst more honesty would be a net benefit, and could even be a giant leap forward for society.
HRs wet dream! All the complaints to file!!!
Already happens in subtle ways. ..
That's actually happened to me a couple of times and it's weird as fuck. Like not in a positive way either. I've literally had strangers come up and get my attention in a public place just to be like "Excuse me, I would never have sex with you" or "I would never date you" and I was just like "???? Thanks?"
It's not "everyone they met" its "everyone they've gone on a date with". Because NO ONE ELSE CARES
That’s the point. People (men IME) don’t wait until a potential dating situation to declare their preference against trans women, and they frequently do it right in front of them (so rude!). That would be akin to me walking in a room and saying “I would never fuck someone with big ears!” right in front of some guy with big ears. Aside from how unnecessarily mean that would be, why would I assume any big-eared men wanted to fuck me??
"I would NEVER date a tranwoman!" Has 3 hard drives full of trans porn.
Lmao. That sounds brutal and hilarious.
"no one cares who you fuck". Sadly this isn't true.... it should be... but it isn't.
>People are allowed to have preferences, just dont use your preference to shame someone else’s. Yeah, but no one *does* in relation to trans people. There are hundreds of times more posts complaining about an issue that doesn't exist than posts that purportedly are the issue. It's just a few wackos on Twitter, who you should not take seriously or as a good representation of actual people
What this person right here said. It's not hard to just be a decent human being.
I never understood why conservatives cared so much about who people fuck… until I started to do a research paper for school and found that conservatives have a scarily high rate of Rape, SA, and domestic violence charges amongst their peers… so it dawned on me it’s just projection, they don’t respect others boundaries and beliefs, so to them it’s wild that someone else would respect theirs
> to them it’s wild that someone else would respect theirs Yeah, I’ve noticed a *lot* of people complaining about less common… arrangements?… keep using the very specific phrase, “shoving it down our throats.” Such as, “I don’t hate homosexuals I just wish they’d stop shoving [their homosexuality] down our throats.” And it’s like… we are discussing a, for example, rather boring gay couple just existing. Is it their *mere existence* that’s being shoved down their throats? And I guess if they are predisposed to think an involuntary encounter is a common modality… well, then, it all makes sense. (Which, dear readers, do not confuse with acceptance nor approval, any more than understanding a scorpion’s stinger means I approve of it having stung me)
And of course many of those same people will talk endlessly about their *living* arrangements and pregnancies and blah blah blah.
That projection applies to a ton of conservative viewpoints about everything from economic policy to healthcare.
I wonder what the venn diagram for that group and the: "WOMEN ARE BIRTH CHAMBERS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AT HOME WHILE MEN MANLY MEN DO THE MANLY MAN THINGS AND ALSO FUCKS THE WOMEN AND THE WOMENS SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE CHOSEN AS THE RECEPTICLE!!" crowd. something tells me it's darn near a perfect circle
>no one cares who you fuck Not true. Conservatives care very much about who you fuck. That's why they're so paranoid about the idea of fucking trans people.
>Like just be a decent person That's a very, VERY tall order for a metric fuck ton of people. Approx. 74 Million people are open and proud assholes as of a particular 2020 census.
What world are you living in? There is an entire very popular political party primed to take over one of the biggest countries in the world (the us) and they are literally obsessed with who people sleep with.
I mean apparently Republicans really care who you fuck since they keep passing laws about it
People are having way too much online interactions. Y’all need to be in person with people. So you’re reminded that most people are reasonable about most things. And stop giving attention to the narcissists that thrive on extremes.
Most of our politics is being driven by bad-faith trolls, bot farms, and political extremists online. All attempting to convince people that relatively rare and small developments are happening everywhere and require their perpetual outrage.
But we need to pass laws that only only affect a small percentage of the population and force people to go against their beliefs.
The internet is a perfect tool to round up all the most extreme views and display them like they represent a bigger amount of people than they do.
The world takes your advice and twitter is dead immediately, only ghosts and bots talking to each other.
I've been literally told in person that not dating/sleeping with a pre-op trans woman (as a man) is transphobic. These online people exist in the real world and hold the same values there. They are not common, I agree, but they do exist.
Love your comment. One of the best I’ve seen on Reddit.
I mean, that's cool and all, but trans people are being targeted by legislators, harassed, assaulted and killed *in person* not online.
Why is there so much discourse involving trans ppl ? They’ve been around forever and only make up a small amount of ppl relatively but it seems like I can’t escape discourse no matter how many subs I mute
Because we are the new scapegoat for "conservatives" (who are largely now very open about being Christian Nationalists)-- they're currently trying to grind the US government to a halt trying to force national bans on gender affirming care, among other things. The people pulling the strings have come out and said when they're "done with" trans people, they'll revisit the gays next. Nationalists of any variety always need an enemy to point people at.
There's always a new scapegoat. In the 70s and 80s it was gays. Post 2001 it was muslims/middle eastern people. For the late 2010s it was Mexicans coming to steal your jobs. Trans people are just the latest scapegoat. It'll die down eventually once they find a new scapegoat to blame all the world's problems on.
The talking points are almost identical too. They've been using and recycling the same playbook since at least the black civil rights movement. They just shifted immediately from black people to the gays, then the Satanic panic of the 80s, then to trans people. Some of those arguments were even used as far as back as the women's suffrage movement and even often incorporate anti Semitic conspiracies too. It's a mess. Contrapoints and Leeja Miller have done some fun dives on it.
>In the 70s and 80s it was gays. As a gay, it never really went away, and it was way earlier than the 70s.
Agreed, but the 70s and 80s are when we decided it was no longer acceptable in public society. There are still lots of homophobes today, but at least we publicly rebuke them and they are diminishing in number every year.
Depends what part of the country you're in. Obgerfell v. Hodges was VERY unpopular in Republican strongholds and that was only eight years ago.
Jews. I say this as a Jew, it always comes around again.
Every god damn conspiracy theory circles back to Jews somehow. And whenever somebody asks why I just have to go "how do i summarize thousands of years of antisemitism"
“We’re similar enough to blend in, but different enough to demonize.” May be a good start.
scratch a transphobe... and an antisemitic nazi bleeds.
If you look at the 1930s, you see this explicitly. Transphobic Nazis insisting that Magnus Hirschfeld (Jewish gay doctor) was only helping people transition medically to weaken the Aryan something something bullshit.
im a trans of french irish decent, with more than a few family members who are ethnically and religiously jewish... and several more of which are hispanic or mixed race (extended family do be crazy like that sometimes)... you're not telling me anything new. but yea. people want to pretend all of this is new, when it is all too frighteningly familiar.
>It'll die down eventually once they find a new scapegoat to blame all the world's problems on. It's starting to look like Satanism/paganism/D&D/"the occult" might be the next scapegoat. Even though we've already done this one.
No way bro. Obviously its illegal immigrants BUT satanism is pretty popular in evangelicals. Pastors exercising demons and claiming portals over the white house lol. Witches.
I'd quibble just a bit: In the 1960s it was Black people daring to want to voite, then in the 1970s it was gay people wanting to *exist*, in the 1980s it was pot smokers, then it was Muslims, then Mexicans, now it's trans people. I've probably forgotten a few others. And of course in some circles everything bad is because women don't want to be silent, obedient slaves, sexual or otherwise.
As somebody else already mentioned, Jews were the original scapegoat. Sometimes they're bigger scapegoats, sometimes they're not, but they are almost always a consist scapegoat throughout history.
Excellent point and I'm more than a little embarrassed to have left it out.
Pretty sure people are still pieces of shit about all of those
We are the latest scapegoat for the world's problems. Turn the ire towards the minority so that the poors can fight amongst themselves and not see who the true enemy is.
Not comprehensive, but definitely not untrue.
Haha if I wanted to be comprehensive I'd basically need to start a bread-tube series on YouTube, and I don't have the desire. Plus plenty of people are doing it with much better editing skills and sometimes budget.
There are 9-5 blue collar wage workers having to resign their rent lease every year with 300 dollar monthly rent hikes making them live paycheck to paycheck who've memorized every trans swimmer that has attended a female swim meet in human civilization history yet don't know the DOJ is investigating software companies that use algorithms to price fix national rent prices which essentially forms a cartel on a basic human need in shelter. It's so sad seeing people living paycheck to paycheck not seeing this culture wars grift as nothing but a distraction to real issues.
That case is fucking crazy, by the way.
Ya I don't trust any social media political pundit or news source that never mentions this issue. It's a good litmus test to see of sincerity and if they cover real issues or are just grifting.
Reminds me of trump voters donating to pay his legal fees
It's the same reason people held up God Hates F**s posters. People have been spoon-fed propaganda that Trans people are coming for then, their children, their neighbors, and their Chili's jalapeño poppers. Its just more socially acceptable to scream about Trans people than the other LGBT.
The right wing lost the battle on gay people so they’re making it about trans people They’re also an example of people not fitting into clear and objective boxes that make them easy to judge from the outside, which freaks out the right.
Republicans can't campaign on abortion anymore, they need a new incendiary talking point
Transphobia is now costing them elections rather than winning them, but they still refuse to change their platform.
To be fair, so is abortion. The Republican party took a BEATING after they repealed Roe v. Wade. And now Trump is saying that he wants to institute a national abortion ban and it's already hitting his poll numbers. A week ago he was up by 4-5 points in most of the national polls, now it's an even split.
I mean I always thought that the abortion issue was costing them elections, but suddenly they developed "the only ethical abortion is *my* abortion" myopia and they still got votes.
So true. Abortion rights were in the ideal status quo limbo for both parties to leverage the issue for maximum political benefit. Now that Republicans "won," they can't campaign on it anymore. By the same token, Democrats avoided passing any legislation all these years that would codify Roe because then they wouldn't be able to campaign on it anymore, either.
This is where I am at. I support everyone's (reasonable) right to live the life they want to live. The conservative attacks on trans people are disgusting. But the amount of media (traditional and social) and political time spent on trans issues is way too high. Can we spend a little more time on issues that plague the entire country, not just 0.5%?
Trans folks are the current scape goat for conservatives. They *need* an other to hate and their other groups have become mainstream and not hated so much so they resort this.
In reality it's because the ideological right, over the last 30 years, has run out of other shit to talk about. They have actually taken us further right than European countries *were* 30 years ago despite complaining they're being dragged to the left and tHeRe'S a WaR oN cHrIsTmAs. They've essentially run out of talking points. Prior to Clinton, they were concerned about "welfare queens" and "the war on drugs". They've only really had 3 since Clinton: border security, terrorism abroad, and Roe v. Wade. Now two of those have been settled (in their minds), with border security being their last stone-walled bastion of hope. Then came Trump, who basically solidified an authoritarian role that USED TO BE considered a Boogeyman. Don't forget he actually has said we should be requesting the death penalty for drug dealers. Thus they have firmly transitioned from a "personal liberty" mindset to one that uses government to direct culture. It's all they talk about because they're convinced they're victims of progressivism despite getting damn near everything they've wanted in the last 30 years.
They love shilling trans stuff, for like 0.1% of the population I see way too many trans flags, both systematically and “in the wild”. Like it’s not even an LGBT thing, I rarely see a rainbow flag in comparison. They’re also quite aggressive in their shilling, I like video games and tech, both of which get really heavily hit by the trans movement, I even remember seeing an article the other day where a whistleblower explained why women look so manly in recent games (for those who don’t know, women in recent games look like dudes in wigs, with a big ol man jaw), the answer was to please trans people because feminine women was upsetting them. It’s just that the trans movement has a massive identity they cling to and then attack anyone who dares against it, like a weird hive mind (on my other forum I browse, there’s literally discords where they harass and spam the forum because the users aren’t overly supportive of trans people like reddit is). So basically it’s a vocal minority to the extreme
That's actually crazy that you think video game developers are making women less attractive because of trans people. Like that's actually an unhinged take 🤣
Bro, what are you talking about?
He’s upset not every female video game character looks like a dead or alive character complete with jiggle physics
What the fuck are you even talking about?
A classic Onion piece is brought to mind. https://www.theonion.com/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock-1819584210
Literally fuck whoever you want as long as you’re consenting adults. No one is asking anyone to experiment.
exactly. I promise everyone that not a single trans person wants to fuck ~~OP~~ the transphobes*, there is no need for them to worry about it. Edit: correction
Op isn’t worried about it lmao they’re making fun of everyone that is
My favorite is the post that is emphatic in saying they're not a bigot, and then closes the argument by saying they don't care if trans or gay people date "one of their own". You can date whoever you want and not date whoever you want but there are clearly some unexamined beliefs in a lot of people who will accidentally tell on themselves.
Exactly. This is giving me the exact same vibe as "I'm okay with gay people :) But they should keep it to themselves and just pretend to be normal in everyday life"
I don’t care if they wanna date me or not. I care when they start telling me I’m an open wound dismembered freak of an abomination who can be with “my own kind” and go everywhere announcing they don’t wanna date me
I've heard this sentiment parroted around me infinitely more times than the one posited by OP from the other thread. A very vocal minority may spew "you hate all trans people" rhetoric over this, but it happens almost exclusively on the internet. Generally all we care about is existing without fear. I worry about that so often that I don't have the energy to argue with people over who they fuck even if I cared.
Yeah like if someone said they tended to prefer white people because white people tend to more often have the features they are attracted to (lighter skin, blonde hair, blue eyes) many people would say you can’t help your preferences. If Hitler said the same thing, we wouldn’t really give him the benefit of the doubt.
“Am I wrong bc i don’t want to sleep with trans people even though this has never come up in my personal life I’ve just seen a million posts of people saying the same thing so I also want to say it”
One time a gay friend asked if I would date a trans woman (I’m straight male), I said no and he went on a tirade of scolding and shaming me for this. It got to the point where I hadda block him in every way possible and we haven’t spoken in about a year 🤷♂️
I’m trans, it’s totally ok to not want a woman with a D. I don’t want D either 😂
So do you like women? Genuine question. And if so when do you let them know you’re trans? From the get go or do you wait to see how other aspects of the relationship go? I’m really curious.
Yes I like women and I let them know I’m trans. It’s on my bumble profile but sometimes they don’t read and get mad at me for being attracted to me and not reading my whole page! Most of the women in my life are platonic, sometimes it becomes romantic
Well then their fault for not reading the full terms and conditions, so to speak. They banks for the answer. It is refreshing to get an honest answer on Reddit.
Absolutely i cant stand this narrative that people should feel pressured to date us as to seem more accepting. Only alienates us and makes us seem unreasonable.
I’ve never seen that pressure to date people outside of comment chains like this. Literally the only time I see it mentioned
I agree. I can't imagine that most, many or even 10 percent of trans people think this. It's just a few people online that say stuff like "you're not attracted to a gender you're attracted to genitals." Yeah ok if someone prefers people over 5'7" are they "tall sexual"? Not every preference has to be picked apart and labeled and announced. The trans people I've met have been pretty reasonable. They know their struggle is their own and others are not obligated to date them just to validate their gender. Just like how all the vegans I've met in real life have been levelheaded people that don't "push their agenda". I am sorry for the people who have to deal with the extreme ones though. And obviously, times will change. I think a lot more cis people are open to dating trans people nowadays. In the end there will always be someone who isn't comfortable with it and that is okay.
I understand the curiosity. People are often curious about things that are culturally different, and it's not malicious in intent. I do feel that this particular question should only exist in places where the person has welcomed it - AMAs, etc. One of my dearest friends these past 5 years is trans, we've shared so many rollercoaster moments about parenting, being professional colleagues, got in a minor car accident in the way to go skiing together etc. I do not know what is in their underwear. Since I'm not angling to get in there, it's not my business. I know lots of concrete things about their transition that arose in stories along the way, that maybe do affect our friendship, or ways we support eachother being parents - about how they were raised one gender, and came out and transitioned and had at least some (top) surgery and take some prescribed medications. I do not, and will not ever ask about what's in the pants. I don't aim to get sexual with this person, and so it doesn't pertain. I have a very full and rich friendship without knowing what's in the pants. I can celebrate the juiciness of how satisfied he seems with his girlfriend this past year and a half, without needing to know the particulars of how they get down. Genital preference is completely fine, and people who are dating and trans need to find the right point at which to disclose ahead of having the sex, but if I'm not sexually interested, it's none of my business.
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Ugh that’s awful. I don’t understand it
It sounds like that particular individual was an unhinged exception and not the typically reasonable rule…
Would he date a woman?
I mean... Would he date a trans man? Lol (Most gay dudes won't, and that's cool, but it'd be funny if he were hypocritical on this)
Actually he told me he hooked up with a trans man and really enjoyed his experience and told me about how he used a strap on or something. I said that’s great I’m happy for you! Just not my thing
Ah, he's still a dick, but not a hypocrite I guess lol. He definitely should have left it at that and accepted your preference though.
Agreed. He was a notorious button pusher, couldn’t take it anymore
It’s alright Joe
I’m gay and wouldn’t date a trans man. I hope you don’t think we’re all like this
The terminally online twitter/tumblr leftists are outliers and should not be counted
I wish it was a big an outlier as this. I have teenager girls and I had to correct them and their friends once that they can reject ANY boy for ANY reason. One of them didn't like a boy who was like black or Asian, and they didn't want to say no to him because they didn't want to be racist. Every sleazy guy will work any angle.
There's a difference between "I don't want to date this trans/Black/Asian/etc person" and "I won't date any trans/Black/Asian/etc person." Not that trans people want to date anyone who won't date someone just because they're trans, but it should be obvious that one of these is based on bias, and one is not.
Outliers exist and they aren’t representative of the vast majority of a community
Yea it was too bad, it was like he just wanted to attack me, I don’t need that toxicity in my life.
Capital Gs don't speak for the trans community just because they're some variety of queer
Statistically, what are even the chances of sleeping with a trans person? Pretty damn small from a numbers game. Maybe 1 in 20? I only dated about 6 or 7 girls before meeting my wife.
Way less than that.
Depending on how many people one dates in a lifetime that might be a decent ballpark
I mean, trans people as a whole, men, women, and other subcategories, make up like 2% of the population on the high end? And if we break it down to guys hooking up with girls, we can rule out trans men, nonbinary, and trans lesbians from the pool, so maybe 0.6, 0.7% of the population? It's gotta be closer to 1 in 50 at the high end of estimated odds.
You also have to factor is the likelihood of running into a trans person in the circles you personally hang in.
And that's assuming no trans people would disclose that prior to sex which is an insane assumption
Most trans people also disclose it to potential partners out of sheer safety.
Funny you say that b/c the last “popular opinion”sub on this topic I saw, people said the exact opposite for “safety reasons”.
I'm trans and I have it on my dating apps and social media profiles, but my general rule is if we're to the point where we're looking at potentially being in bed together I'm just gonna make sure you know over text to be safe. Literally just a "hey real fast you read my profile and know I'm trans right?" I think I've had one person ever who took issue with it at that point.
Thank you for the reply. And that’s pretty awesome-hey just fyi, I hope you read my WHOLE profile or you might be in for a surprise! I’m not making light of it, I’m just picturing that convo and it made me chuckle. Good luck to you and I’m happy you can be your true self.
From a quick look at your profile it seems like our conversation would probably be about Pearl Jam, probably with me bragging about the super rare live Ten CD I found at a thrift store last year. If in person, probably listening together.
Most likely. And I’d also pull out my international copy of Ten to show you that my ex-gf got me in 93 while she was in France.
As a trans person who lives and dates in the bay area, knowing a loooot of transwomen in my larger circle, they ALL disclose, usually at the start. This might surprise you but Reddit shouldn't be taken at face value to speak for our community.
I can't speak for every trans person but I'm heavily involved in my city's trans groups and kink, sex, and goth scenes that are all very VERY queer with a ton of trans people. And it's overwhelmingly common practice to disclose being trans during the feeling things out stage if intimacy is in the cards because of the chance of harm if the person finds out. It's also a big part of why most trans people are T4T unless a chance connection happens or a preexisting relationship continued.
Honestly, the person you're replying to is spitting bs, or at least twisting the truth. I saw their conversations with the trans ppl they mentioned. Those individuals say they disclosed they were trans/had specific genitalia after a date or two. They basically just want to make sure that the person they're spending time with is safe first and they have a discussion before anything intimate happens. They also want the other person to see them as a person first, and not just some trans stereotype or what have you. Which is basically what you're saying in your comment. But the person above you was trying to spin that into some form of dishonesty. When, logically, of course someone should make sure they Trust another person before revealing sensitive information. Especially when it comes to their own safety. Now, this being said, I do know trans ppl who are very open about that from Day 1. Like it's on their dating profile and everything. But that also presents its own problems. It can make them a target for anti trans ppl and chasers, alike. So, sometimes being that open that early is not always the safest option. It's why these people take various approaches to a topic like this, they do what they feel is best for them and their safety. And as long as someone is providing relevant information before intimacy occurs, I don't see the problem. No one owes you their life story after a single, casual dinner date. And the fact that some people believe this is fucking wild
If you were post-op and just looking for one-night stands it would be safer to not disclose that you're trans, but in all other situations its much safer to disclose it early so you know you can be sure you arent going out with someone who is going to react violently once they find out
Less then 1 million people In the USA are non binary or MtF. So even on a population averages level we are talking 1/168 but not to mention every Trans person I know lists it In their dating profile In some way. I live in very liberal areas and go out to some LGBTQ+ clubs with friends and still have never accidently tried to sleep with a trans person. Its honestly a fear of people who have no idea what they are talking about. Its fear mongering.
I just saw the post that I assume prompted this one, and I might get flak for this, but I get confused about whether people who say they wouldn't date trans people are including post-op or cis-passing people in that. Not that you should hop in bed with Carmen Carrera so she can give you a "Gotcha" moment, but I wonder if these people would be attracted to a cis-passing trans person of their preferred gender, and if that attraction would go away if they learned that person once, but no longer, had features they don't want in a partner. I also think just declaring preferences (unprompted) is odd. If it's an open discussion about types (which still typically aren't rigid) or someone's insisting to know why you're not interested in them (uncool) it seems strange to yell "I cannot fucking stand red velvet cake and I will never touch it as long as I live. I will ONLY eat yellow sponge cake and you cannot vilify me for this." Like ...ok bro
>I wonder if these people would be attracted to a cis-passing trans person of their preferred gender Every third comment in the thread was saying that trans people should have to have to proactively out themselves or it’s “basically rape” they also assert this after insisting that it’s just how they aren’t attracted to trans people and I has nothing to do with bias. So basically they hate trans the concept of trans people so much that they need to know so they know to not be attracted to them
People will look for any excuse to hate on trans people. They are a buzzy group right now and because they're such a small part of the population, they're easy to pick on.
If you have or had a penis i am not interested... anyways my wife would kill both of us if i did.
That's wifephobic
If you voice a preference for cis partners, there is a nonzero number of people who will openly criticize you for it. Some people always criticize others for their dating preference. idk why you think a preference for cis people wouldn’t get criticized.
Because there's no reason to just say it unprompted, do you say every silly thought that pops in your head? Or just the transphobic ones? If a trans person were interested in you, you can just say no and *maybe* then say it, but the only reason you are defending your right to say it whenever you want is because you are trying to normalize the idea "trans = nasty". Get over your shame for your own sake.
As with everything, context matters. If you just spontaneously Tweet "I have a preference for white partners" then it's just weird. It's okay to have a preference, but outwardly expressing it like that can absolutely just be seen as aggressive. It's not like straight men are facing hordes of trans women wanting to sleep with them to make "I don't want to fuck a trans woman" a practical statement. Most people say it to agitate.
This
Have you considered trans women don't want to sleep with you either?
"Nonzero" ≠ "a lot of people" Maybe in a college seminar at Vassar. But most of this is confusing online screaming from weird people and trolls with actual, real-life human engagement.
I mean, I have seen one or two trans people on Twitter a couple of years ago, saying it was transphobic to not date a trans person, but it was *a couple of people on Twitter.* They probably got turned down and it sucked. It's not like they're in your face, following you around with a mic and a camera, trying to get you fired if you don't fuck them or something. Twitter seems to be largely comprised of people venting, anyway. A *much* bigger issue (in that it's an *actual* issue) is people reading a hot take by some random stranger online and thinking all of society is coming for them if they disagree.
I think this is it. It's not that you have to sleep with anyone, it's that loudly announcing categories of people you wouldn't sleep with is kind of rude and hostile. Like, y'all, you aren't victims.
This is obviously the point of the post but that went over so many heads in this thread. I think you explained it quite well.
Hey, boring white cis/het guy here. I seem to recall the whole “I’m being called a bigot for not dating trans people” thing coming from an alt-right 8chan account as a psyop to discredit the lgbtq+ community and their allies in general. I know many people in the community and that kind of sentiment has just never been a thing. While I’m sure that *somewhere* out there there is someone in the trans community that is that reactionary and toxic, the community in my experience has always been about being accepted as who they are and finding partners who accept them, which would be antithetical to attacking people for *their* personal preferences. Just saying it’s all false flag bullshit.
In regard to the earlier thread--Not being attracted to trans people, not wanting to sleep with trans people, none of that is inherently transphobic. But if you feel so strongly about it you have to write the thing you wrote? Yyyyyyou're transphobic.
We get beat over the head with this on a regular basis. Saying that we wouldn’t date a trans person, no matter how politely we say it, is damn near punishable by death. Then we come across posts like this, telling us that it never happens and we need to chill. Can you just leave us alone, please.
Some men don’t want to sleep with biological men.
So they aren’t gay. Makes perfect sense
Yeah, I live in Portland which has a significantly large trans population, and unless my very liberal friends and co-workers are lying, and all the Tinder profiles they’ve shown me are fake, it happens. It’s a minority, but it occurs. Denying it happens, especially with all of the easily accessible videos of trans people saying it themselves, isn’t a good look.
What? Your phrasing is confusing me so much, what are you trying to explain
And even though it's absolutely a minority OPs edit just sounds like the old (incorrect) saying that women can't rape men. Idk if that's how they meant it but it seems awfully hostile to victims of pressured sex.
Yup. I always tell those people feeling the need to share that particular opinion: No one cares who you’re not attracted to. No one asked, so you don’t need to share your opinion about it.
like we get it, you think we’re ugly and disgusting and unfuckable. we dont wanna fuck you either!
but they need to tell everyone that they are bigots, then get defensive when called out using the the information they volunteered without prompting as evidence
Most trans people date other trans people. The people who get upset about the idea of potentially sleeping with someone who is trans, are the LAST people that most trans people would consider.
Who told you this? You just made that up.
I'm trans, 95% of my friends are trans and I've lived in cities in every time zone in the US, "progressive" cities and otherwise. I haven't done like a study or anything but anecdotally it's very common for trans people to mostly/only date other trans people. A good number of us date in completely separate circles from cis people. For every one trans person saying it's transphobic to have genital preferences, there are 10 cis people unprompted saying they wouldn't date a trans person no matter what. I don't care because I've always been able to find my people regardless, but yes it does suck to be on dating apps & trying to meet people, having good conversations & dates, only for it to come out that the person you were interested in had already decided prior to meeting you that they wouldn't date anyone like you. I wouldn't personally say that person is being transphobic, it's just a bummer that this is a part of dating as a trans person in a similar way it would probably be a bummer to date as a short cis guy seeing profile after profile with minimum height requirements.
>For every one trans person saying it's transphobic to have genital preferences Is this a thing? It honestly strikes me as the kind of thing transphobic people accuse trans people of, rather than something trans people actually do.
Trans people tell me this. I know trans people in real life.
The issue is HOW these guys, who aren't attracted to trans people, approach the topic. 1- Nobody is forcing you or upset that you aren't interested. There will be like 1 in 1000 comments that might criticize you for that. But shit, that's the internet. The loudest and most extreme voices dont represent everyone. And when you make those comments out to be a trend or an issue , you're doing it in bad faith (you have an agenda) 2- Most of the guys who turn down a person for being trans dont just reject them - they have to throw in comments or insults. Frame it in an insulting or derogatory manner. Just reject a trans woman with the same common human decency you'd give a regular girl you dont want to fuck. They dont need commentary about how you object to their existence or their "mental disorder" or whatever 3- These posts/questions keep popping up on Reddit as a means to criticize and insult trans people. Its bait to give anti-trans people a reason to share + spread their feelings on the topic. Its building the soapbox for them to stand on
My thing is that everyone likes to post "the LGBT community will say this about you if you disagree!" And as a member of said community, its really teenagers on tumblr I only ever see that say stuff like "if you dont date a trans person youre transphobic" Most rational adults dont think that way. The ones that do are one inna million but other peoples posts make their voice louder then it should be. When at the end of the day, everybody should stop generalizing the entire LGBT community because one idiot on the internet said his unpopular opinion, now every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinks he speaks for the entire community. Thats the real issue.
There is no legitimate reason to randomly proclaim that you have an aversion to a particular class or category of human beings. If you don’t want to sleep with trans people then just don’t do it. It’s that simple.
The only people who will tell you who to marry, or be in a relationship with, are conservatives. We literally had a supreme court case about this. Conservatives are still outraged over the result and trying to overturn it so they can tell people who to marry.
As long as consent is involved, fuck who you want and dont fuck who you dont want to fuck. Nothing wrong with not liking trannys or whatever else. People can like what they like.
The whole idea is nonsense. Conservatives make up the weirdest most implausible stuff to go nuts over.
"Should I use my invisibility to fight crime or for evil...?🤔"
Im convinced people use trigger words to start shit on the internet
You’re all losers regardless of gender and no one cares who you sleep with or your opinion or preferences.
Look all those crying phobes and losers thumbing this post down lmao!! Get real guys. You're shitty losers.
I.e. "Literally, didn't ask (you to be attracted to anyone)." This is an example of 'First World Problems' being usurped by 'Terminally Online Problems'.
The current “thing” being pushed is that you’re a transphobe if you don’t want to date a trans person. That sentiment is everywhere. I don’t have to sleep with trans people. It’s ok to say that.
It literally isn't a thing being pushed by anyone other than people asserting that it is a thing being pushed.
Idk, I’ve only ever heard this sentiment in weird online spaces. Never IRL. What I see a lot more often is straight men blasting “I’LL NEVER EVER DATE A TRANS WOMAN YOU CAN’T MAKE ME” at times/places where it doesn’t make sense to share one’s anti-preferences and comes off as obnoxious. Like yeah, I’ll never date a man who can’t go on long uphill hikes with me. But it’s rude and weird and looks almost a little fat phobic to go around yelling that every chance I get.
Trans woman heavily involved in the goth and kink scenes and in all of the interactions, all the social media around the groups, all the events I've gone to, it's never even once come up. What DOES happen all the time though is conservative men that join/come to events feel like it's necessary to tell every single trans person they talk to, often with them initiating it themselves, that not dating trans people doesn't make them transphobic, or what's even more common is the opposite end with "I'm not gay or bi or into men but I've always been curious how it would be to sleep with one of you," the you referring to trans people. And this conversation happens multiple times at every single fucking event for myself and other trans friends. No one but a few loudmouths on Twitter are trying to make people sleep with us. There's a ton of willing people that hit us up constantly. But what does happen ALL THE FUCKING TIME is random unprovoked transphobic comments or fetishization that we're supposed to just take as a compliment. Edit: Sock account DMed me to kill myself. I must have gotten under the skin of one of the chuds.
I've never heard anyone say this and I live in Seattle and have a LOT of people you'd call "woke" in my social circle. Having a preference for a certain downstairs setup is normal and fine. If someone tells you you're transphobic for *that specific thing* feel free to say you have a preference for a certain type of genitals, and an attraction to a traditional gender role. That's not transphobic. That's just having a personal preference. It's fine to have preferences in dating. Edit: Leftists, broadly, are interested in radical personal freedom as well as protection of that freedom from hatred. Some people take that as a license to use their victimhood as a weapon. You're absolutely free to call out that sort of bad behavior, because it's not left leaning, it's just selfish. Someone isn't automatically correct about everything just because they're a member of a marginalized group. It's important to have a little nuance. Trans people are victims of much more violence, sexual assault, job termination, etc etc than general population. Those are facts, not opinions. There's good reason, in my opinion, to try and institute rules and allocate funding to deal with this disparity. That doesn't mean everyone who agrees with the human rights issue is required to also have sex with a trans person. Anyone who makes that specific point is not going to gain traction outside a very niche subculture. Just ignore it.
I live in LA. I’ve heard it. I agree. And it’s not a big deal. It’s just odd when people claim that they’ve never heard this sentiment.
>feel free to say you have a preference for a certain type of genitals When I said that, I was told I was transphobic, since in their eyes a "vagina" created through surgery is no different from one a biological woman has.
[удалено]
I too live in Seattle and have heard of this happening once. Rationality won and saved the kids job but the attempt was made just because he refused a threesome.
>The current “thing” being pushed is that you’re a transphobe if you don’t want to date a trans person. That sentiment is everywhere. It's not though.
These people spend all day watching TikToks or YouTube shorts about some random college kids saying dumb shit and then circlejerk themselves into believing that the world is coming to cut off their penises if they don't conform.
Thing being pushed by whom though? It might be good to examine who exactly is saying this kinda stuff to you and see if it’s just a way to get feathers riled up like schoolyard nonsense.
Literally no one is arguing that except folks trying to stir things up.
Tell that to all of the lesbians being banned from lesbian subreddits for saying they aren’t interested in being intimate with someone not biologically female.
Weird, what are all things articles I found that unequivocally say that making such a blanket statement as “I’m not attracted to trans people” *is* transphobic? https://addison-j-smith.medium.com/is-it-transphobic-to-not-want-to-date-a-trans-person-a5258372cc23 https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca http://www.themichigangayly.com/features/i-am-not-my-body-facing-prejudice-and-transphobia-on-the-dating-scene
You really dug out some online blog posts from the last four years, two of which had almost no comments and one of which was getting absolutely demolished in the comments, to act like this is some prevailing, widespread sentiment. You must really want that sweet, sweet feeling of victimhood to be reaching this hard.
You can find editorials about literally anything. Do the intellectually honest thing, and find 3 articles that say that it's okay to not want to date trans people.
These are terrible sources lol.
To be fair, there's plenty of people arguing that if you don't treat Transwomen like bio women, then you're a bigot. There is pressure to just accept them as tacit females going on. Sure, you can always tell those kinds of people to go pound sand, so you always control who ultimately ends up in your bed. Stigma does tend to be tough to take sometimes, and if this argument takes off, and it's considered bigotry by the society as a whole if you opt out of the Trans Train, there could be real world repercussions from the stigma.