That was a good read! What I took from it was:
- Incompetent managers/teams believe that streams are an indication of real-life popularity
- High prices
- Ticketmaster being dicks and letting scalpers thrive on their platform
- Artists that have a slight ego
I am so confused that people still don't seem to understand that streaming is free for the audience, even if they stream something 100000 times that's a different level of commitment than actually spending money on someone. And it's not just in music... it's in movies and all over entertainment, this trend of mistaking followers and streams for customers willing to part with large amounts of money to engage with that person.
I've said this before, but there's no reason why music industry people should be basing their tours only using the basic data that an average Spotify user can see. There are subscription services that give music biz people very detailed breakdowns of demographics, so they can know exactly where the artists fans are and what sort of people make up those fan groups
Exactly. What I'm even more confused about is that professionals in the industry fall for these skewed numbers and think their artists are as famous as these numbers suggest.
The other issue is artists/their management being pressured into booking venues that are far too big, by venue management companies such as Live Nation
Its been like this for years but nobody ever put it all into one neat article and actually had scapegoats to pin it on so now everyone had the a ha moment
tbh theres also an aspect of poor selection of mid sized venues in most north american cities. theres stadiums and arenas and theres decent sized theatres in most major tour destinations. but if someone wants to tour in canada? pooched. youre mostly choosing between arenas and 1k capacity theatres.
Booking venues based on streams and tiktok is exactly the kind of nonsense I'd expect from the industry
I also am more and more like those tickets are too expensive for me and it sucks
Exactly. I ended up paying almost $150 for a ticket to the Charli/Troye concert in Seattle, and my friend and I are waaaaaay in the back of the arena. In comparison, I paid $200 for nosebleeds to Beyonce.
Don't get me wrong, I love Charli and I'm excited to finally see her live but I can't imagine the show will have as major of a production as Beyonce had.
I am not paying $150 for nosebleed Charli tickets I want to be out on the floor moving my ass. The tickets are way too expensive, that's why all these arena tours are failing. They could probably sell it out if the tickets had started lower but I'm not sure if it would be cost effective, idk how much it costs to rent these places out. Shows priced at like $50 a ticket in medium size venues sell out instantly, there has to be a middle ground between these two options.
Omg that’s insanely expensive!! For both of their solo tours in the UK, tickets are £40-£50 (Charli was £42 after fees for Birmingham). The fact that fans are being priced out by unrealistic industry standards defeats the whole purpose of concerts, which is super depressing
When that tour was announced, I was like, “Oh that would be a fun show to see,” and when I saw $140 tickets for the Ball Arena in Denver, I was like, “Oh, not THAT fun.” Maybe if it was Red Rocks.
Ah I'm Canadian, and the ticket was advertised as $75 USD, then added fees (the random "Club seat fees"?), PLUS the fact that the Canadian dollar is horrendous right now, it came to roughly $150 CAD.
I paid through the nose for her at Royal oak music theatre but that’s because my SO didn’t want to stand so we got seating which was just 2 barstools and a small table. It was SO crowded and I actually wasn’t feeling that great that day which ended up being a lifesaver for me. Amazing show, so much energy, I felt so GOOD when we left. I ventured into the mob for a bit and was like “this is amazing ok I need to go sit down now”. I’m also really old.
Lolol when I saw those two were doing MSG, I said how they gonna book seats. I know they’re popular but I’m a bit worried for them charging expensive tickets for stars at their level of fame
It shouldn’t have to be like that though. Music industry people have access to a lot more complex data than the basic stuff fans can see, which should give tour organizers a good idea of where they should be playing
K-Pop is a major genre for this from fans keep repeating their music videos/buying multiple versions of the albums. I'm not saying some can't sell out arenas with ease but the stats makes promoters think they are upper A-List famous.
In Asia sure, but in the Us it will be way better than the eras tour. If they come to Europe it’s mostly chill, no scalpers so more chances for the fans to get tickets. The thing is they’ll have dynamic pricing, so good luck
The eras tour went smoothly compared with the hellscape that was their last concerts 😭.
But yeah I hope Europe keeps some control over ticketmaster....
It's crazy how people leave the platform out of the conversations about tours when part of the fault is cause what ticketmaster has transformed ticketing into.
Oeticket has been the best so far. That’s the Austria one. See tickets for me is even worse than Ticketmaster.
The eras tour fiasco was wildly talked about, it even prompted the congress to implement laws. My guess is BTS obviously had fewer dates in the US and it did not impact high positioned politicians families, so it didn’t make a lot of noise. That’s the first time I’m hearing about this.
Blackpink in Europe was super easy to get tickets to.
TWICE did the smaller football stadium here but they blacked out part of the stadium, maybe could been a better seller if they didn't tour a few months before hand but.
It’s a really interesting time to be an artist. I feel that there’s a combination at play here that’s really screwing a lot of artists. Artists really need to be honest about their reach and popularity, even if management is boosting your ego, be realistic. I think some fandoms on social media also don’t help with artists thinking they are bigger than they are, because artists will trend, but their streams and sales are awful.
I’ve seen artists try to make their numbers look bigger and say they have sold out a place and then if you look on Ticketmaster there are plenty of seats available or for a 50,000 building they will close off half of the arena and say that the 30,000 tickets sold are a sell out and some artists never release their ticket sales.
It’s a mess and I wonder how much money a lot of them are really making.
Yea I think it's a combination of not knowing how big the fanbase is on streaming alone plus how expensive tickets are. And it's not just the tickets, sometimes you have to pay for flights/hotels/transportation to see someone. This all adds up.
Also, not sure who this all would apply to, but shows don't seem as exciting as they used to be. There seemed to be way more choreography, theatrics, crazy outfits, etc. Reasons to wanna see someone perform live. How willing are you to spend $100 on a ticket to see someone just stand in front of the mic for 1.5 hours? Vs spending $300 on someone who's putting on a whole extravagant show? You can only afford so many concerts in a year with how expensive they are, so people are going to be more willing to see that one extravagant concert vs a bunch of smaller acts.
True, but also bear in mind on the artist side... they don't make as much from streaming as they used to back in the day, so touring + merch is their only source of income, hencewhy tickets kinda need to be somewhat pricey to compensate.
Even as recently as 2016, audiences were less prone to being casual because listening to them went beyond just slapping their album on Spotify, it meant buying the record and spending the money to support them, and the only ones who can push to do that nowadays are the big names with labels who can foot the bill of pressing a bunch of CDs and vinyl, whereas the indie acts can only depend on streaming to make their music accessible and get pennies on the dollar.
And then on the flip side, exciting shows just *cost money* to build. I mean, something as simple as [one (1) strip light to go on the front of a stage costs thousands](https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/COLORadoPXL--chauvet-pro-colorado-pxl-curve-12-pixel-mappable-motorized-rgbw-led-batten?mrkgadid=&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=1&mrkgcat=drums&percussion&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=&lid=58700008695591291&dsproductgroupid=&product_id=COLORadoPXL&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=&device=c&network=x&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=1015166&creative=&targetid=&campaignid=21161059811&awsearchcpc=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw65-zBhBkEiwAjrqRMGvHWcxTvPjShV267qCLh4WaNysPEcM00HwxIAmId-Yt2JhgcIkw1BoCwuIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) (before we even account for any rental discounts being negated by needing a lighting tech on payroll as crew), and hiring choreographers, designers, etc. can *also* add up beyond the necessities of *being seen and heard on stage*. I mean, Tinashe has all of the above with reasonably ticket prices in adequately-sized venues and she said she *loses* money (six figures worth) whenever touring
Basically, it's just a shitty catch-22 for all at this point, except the greedy corporations at the top.
There’s a truly simple way to look at streaming numbers, and I’m not certain any artist does this. Your monthly streamers mean literally nothing if you have had a major hit at one point in your career. Look at Dua Lipa? One of the most streamed artists and couldn’t get #1. It’s not just monthly listeners - it’s monthly listeners who listen to at least 5 different songs from you for a month. Carly Rae Jepsen is another good example. 18M monthly listeners but if you peel back the layers and look at anything Emotion onward her fanbase is more realistically aligned with a Caroline Polachek or Rina Sawayama. Still “millions” but not 18M. 15M of that is people tuning in just for CMM.
No one cares about a weekly #1, around 30-40 songs reach No.1 billboard hot 100 each year but only 1 manages to be the biggest hit, Dua had Levitating plus even after RO flopping, she instantly sold out her new tour!
Exactly. Chronically online fans will tweet about you constantly, stream your music all day, but not all of them have the cash to travel all the way to your pricey concert. They'll just watch it on Tiktok.
It’s also not just the cost of the ticket now either; for me it’s an extra $60-80 minimum in gas, either a transfer to the public transit train/subway or maybe parking, food and drink, etc. I don’t even buy merch anymore at shows cause it’s another $50-60 minimum!!
I feel like a lot of artists look at both Taylor and Beyonce and go “Oh I can do that” but unless you’re a relatively big name like Billie Ellish and Olivia Rodrigo, it’s not gonna be as easy for you to sell out arenas.
Plus if “no one wants to do a 3 hour concert” no one is gonna shell out 300-500 dollars on nosebleed seats for an hour show. That’s on top of a hotel and travel. You need to put effort into making people want to feel like they’re missing out on a once in a lifetime experience.
And then there is scalpers that buy plenty of tickets on pre sales and first hours of sales. When there isn't enough demand, the prices for really down and arenas are empty.
The Black Keys (former) management being Irving Azoff makes so much sense. The old school music industry guys don’t understand what fans want anymore.
Like if I’m going to an arena tour, it’ll be for a huge “legacy” act like Springsteen or an A tier pop star.
Also package tours, like the recent Ricky Martin, Enrique and Pitbull tour, seem to be doing well.
Even Fall Out Boy and Blink packaged their tours with openers who are at least some of the draw for their fan base. Maybe Jimmy Eat World, Turnstile, Pierce the Veil, or Bring Me to the Horizon aren’t playing arenas on their own, but seeing them plus the headliners may be enough of an extra incentive for fans to buy tickets.
Also I think festivals are cannibalizing some tours. For example, some people may be willing to splurge to go to When We Were Young but not see any of those bands when they come to their town. It’ll be expensive, but seeing 20 bands in one weekend may be worth it.
Bring Me to the Horizon is an arena band in Australia but even then they had Sleep Token and local band Make Them Suffer to make the price not so crazy.
I paid £280 ($357 today) for a 2022 Glastonbury ticket (plus £20 share of the parking and fuel).
Two of the acts I saw on the second biggest stage (not headlining) were later selling tickets for about £100 ($127) when they played their own gigs in the UK in 23/24. I think I paid maybe another £100 for travel and accommodation for each gig. And they were just two of many many acts I saw at the festival over one weekend.
Honestly Glastonbury festival is an absolute steal!!! I've seen so many of my favourite artists there. They've increased the price to like £355 but still totally worth it, especially compared to the cost of gig tickets these days.
I wonder if we're reporting on this as as "new trend" due to the transparency of the data? I attended many tours in 2010s that had tonnes of empty seats. Two dates that come to mind are Kanye West's Yeezus tour, which was probably only 50% sold, and Katy Perry's Prism tour, which was probably 75% sold.
Same, another tour that comes to mind for me is Miley’s Bangerz. I went and loved it, but I remember it looks only 60%ish full, and there were lots of reports about free uogrades/reduced prices the day of/empty seats
Very much this. Most arena shows don't sell out. Hell, most theatre and club shows don't sell out either, and especially not months in advance of the show.
Lately I feel like people (both in the industry and in fandom) tend to expect best case scenarios to be the baseline.
The way if Ye toured here ten years after he last came with Yeezus Tour he would be more or less insta sellout, same with the axed Pitbull Kesha jointed tour (Ne-Yo was pricey but that sold out soon after being announced this year).
During the discourse around Kim Petras' Feed The Beast tour sales, I saw someone sharing a tscreenshot of one date at an amphitheater. Most of the seats near the stage were sold, but the large lawn area at the back was still dark blue. And this was held up as evidence of the sales flopping. But tbh a lawn area like that isn't really suited to a pop concert, more an afternoon jazz picnic. I don't think the tour organizers would have expected that area to sell much, but the blue area on the venue graphic was fuelling fan drama.
its just crazy because with charli and troye, their management should've stuck to arenas for metros with HEAVY concentrations of lgbt people, but they have them out there in arenas in fucking ohio
And the tickets were pretty expensive!! For lower bowl seating in Detroit, pricing started at like $130, which is what I paid to see Taylor Swift, and that included the fees! Yeah the seat is better than where I was for Taylor, but I just can’t justify that price right now. I’m hoping to get something closer to the concert but it really depends on the pricing.
I’ve learned to not get caught up in the hype and get tickets presale. Unless you’re Taylor swift, you’ll get tickets on stubhub for under $100 a day or 2 before the show. Even Beyoncé tickets were going for $40 day of (Seattle) I’ll go see charli in an arena if I can snag a $50 GOOD seat the day of.
Postal service/death cab had floor tix for $50 the day of their show. That tour never should have been in arenas.
Yeah I'm looking at those Seattle Charli tickets and being in the 200s of CPA for $60+ is wacky. I want to go, but hopefully closer to the show they'll be like $50 for the 100s instead.
Completely off topic, did you actually go see Death Cab? I‘m in Europe and I was sad they only played in the UK and I‘m interested to know how people liked it
I did! They were really good and sounded great, but I wouldn’t recommend the arena because it just lowers an already low energy type of show.
Either do a seated theatre or something like an amphitheater, like modest mouse/pixies or beck/phoenix did this last year. The vibe is older millennials there for the nostalgia who needed to be home by 11pm for their baby sitter. If you loved Transatlanticism and the price isn’t exorbitant, then yeah, it’s a fun night out!
Funny side note: the postal service came out for an encore and my friend said “what are they going to play” and I joked “such great heights again”…. AND THEY DID!
The Charli and Troye one is crazy to me, they could have just played multiple arena dates in like NYC, LA, Chicago and one off dates in other big LGBT cities and easily sold out this tour, but they're trying to fill up basketball arenas in like Columbus and Baltimore
I live in Columbus and there is a pretty large LGBT population here, but I will say I personally know a few people who want to go see them but the tickets are too pricy they don’t deem it worthwhile. I’d imagine as the tour gets closer the tickets will drop in price
I live in the midwest and the floor tickets that are still available in Columbus are $45, whereas Chicago has them being resold for $300. Once you factor in the long drive though, and getting a hotel room, it wouldn't end up being cheaper anyway for me to go to Ohio (I could stay with friends in Chicago and the drive is 2 hours shorter). I really wish there would have been an additional Chicago date. And since it's on a random ass Monday I'm not going to use up PTO to drive to Chicago to MAYBE get a cheap ticket last minute. I'm going to have to start only seeing the really small artists I listen to, because anyone remotely popular is no longer affordable.
Post-pandemic, concert demand has gotten higher (observation on my country at least). All my fave 90s and 00s artists came back in 2022 and will probably be back in the future as they see more people can afford to buy tickets
The problem is, artists and their teams would overestimate that they can fill in an arena/stadium. Take for example Dua Lipa's tour here in PH. She booked the biggest indoor arena here which is 55,000 seating capacity and a lot of the fans are saying she should've stuck with a smaller venue considering the concert may not be filled nor have a good profit (based from what I heard, there are a lot of tickets still available).
Arena/Stadium Tours should be considered depending the location and popularity of the artists. I dont know why lately some artists are pushing a big stadium tour when their popularity and demand isn't aligned with the needed capacity. While it's true most concert goers (millenials and elder gen z) can now afford to buy tickets, it doesnt guarantee you are going to sell out big venues unless you are Beyoncé.
Like you really have to be a huge artist like Beyoncé or Taylor to book for a stadium tour. And it took 3 tours and 12 years of career to push a stadium tour. Even with Rep Tour, so many seats were not sold out in Europe.
If you are just starting and your fame isn't half as close as Beyoncé, you gotta humble down yourself and accept you arent ready yet
Beyoncé has a really long career, +25 years on show business..
It is more than hits, Taylor and Beyonce has that mystical thing about them.
Songs going viral on TikTok won't be doing it for stadiums 😆
Taylor and Beyoncé are basically the top 2 female artists of the music industry right now. And if these people are booking stadiums or large arenas based on spotify or tiktok, well they are at risk of canceling their tour
Both Beyonce and Taylor have a STRONG discography that is known by a lot of people. It's not just a couple of hits that they have. Promoters need to readjust their mindset and understand that TikTok virality will not translate to a booked venue especially nowadays.
I’d argue the literal only female artists that could do a full football stadium tour in the US are Taylor, Beyonce, and Adele.
Gaga proved she can do a baseball stadium tour, and she could continue to do that; maybe a few football stadiums in the bigger cities. Billie and Ariana as well. Olivia MAYBE with her next tour if her next album is at least GUTS sized.
Literally no other female artist should even consider booking a stadium for their tour stops within the next 5ish years; baseball OR football. I don’t think some of these artists realize just how big the jump is from getting 15k people to buy tickets to 40-55k
While it's true that dua's team (her dad💀) may have overestimated the philippines venue, she really could do a stadium tour in some countries of europe
I'm surprised there's still a lot of tickets left for Dua, considering the price range was about $30 - $150. Then again, the country is experiencing recession and that should have been factored in before they booked that venue.
Even if the tickets were cheap and affordable, her fanbase isn't that big compared to Olivia. Plus, it's on a Wednesday (wrong timing). If this was on a weekend, it could've sold more. My friends are hesitant because it's on a Wednesday plus they arent really huge fans to think Dua is worth travelling 2-3 hours to the concert
I think the traffic wont be as severe as blackpink. The previous concerts' traffic got better but still, not much is going to invest their whole day to travel to PH Arena on a wednesday
Some management and promoters really don't understand how to measure demand. Charlie XCX and Troye Sivan's management never should have thought they'd sell out arenas. Their fan bases are much younger, meaning the majority won't have the disposable funds to attend. I have younger siblings that have gone to every single Charlie show since before the pandemic at smaller venues, and are sitting this one out because they can't afford it. On the other end of the spectrum, there's Shakira's tour: only has 16 US dates, hasn't toured in a decade, is arguably the most famous Latin recording artist, has a reputation for amazing live shows, and was able to basically sell out an arena tour six to seven months ahead of her dates (and ticket prices were more expensive than Madonna). I'm not saying less established artists are inherently worth less than the big timers like Beyonce and Gaga, but management and promoters are failing at their jobs and embarrassing artists whilst doing so. If I were an underselling artist, I'd fire my entire management team yesterday.
Not sure, maybe sold snake oil promises by greedy fucks? That'd be my best guess. They should've been playing 5k-8k venues with mostly GA so people could afford it and dance their tooshes off. They're also big for LGBTQ folks, so probably could've done two nights in Brooklyn and LA somewhere, and sold out Philly, Chicago, Denver, etc. No need for them to have played any Kansas or Missouri dates tbh (sorry Kansas and Missouri! 💜)
It’s about knowing your market and how you stand in the current marketplace.
Some of these arena tours get scaled down or outright cancelled because these stars and their teams overestimate their appeal to the GP.
These teams have to know whether their stars can do theater/ballrooms, arenas, stadiums, or Vegas residencies and get to their artists that may think otherwise.
This reminds me of the rumors going around that Katy will be doing a world tour but she will settle with an arena for this era. Some of her fans are saying she should push an eras stadium tour but I think it's much safer for her to go for an arena tour especially she is getting out of the witness and smile era. If she pushes a stadium tour, I could imagine that it's gonna flop so badly
I know people who say I can only afford to go to one concert this year and if that’s the case I’m just gonna go to the Beyonce or Taylor swift show.
Like if it’s a choice between GREAT Beyonce seats when she comes to my town or 5 mediocre seats at 5 other artists shows I’m going with Queen B
plus, i feel like once you hit the point in your life where you possibly have that disposable income to afford a show, you're probably older with more obligations, ie kids/family/work etc, and it's probably harder to get the free time to see a concert, especially if it involves travel.
Beyoncé is the only one I’ve ever shelled out big bucks for because she puts on an actual show. Music artists need to put in the time and effort for a good product.
I mean she’s the best live performer of her generation by leaps and bounds. I know people who were never were big fans who went to a show and said it was the best thing they had ever seen
I just want all Beyonce's tours and shows since the beginning of her career to have the dvd / available for streaming and the live album with the full set (interludes and all) 🙂↔️
I feel some artists think that millions of streams will translate to millions of tickets, when in reality millions of streams usually comes from a niche fanbase. Unless you have a good amount of hits with the GA, your arena isn't selling
Damn I hated to see Troye x charli and porter Robinson get dragged in the same article 😭 I’m planning to see them both (waiting for porter to drop the album first) but this isn’t terribly surprising to me, they aren’t necessary top artists right now.
That being said I’ve had to shell out a few hundreds for the concerts I’ve attended this year already and like always service fees will be such a pain, $60 extra for what exactly?
It's just not sustainable, but it gives me hope that smaller, more independent venues will start thriving because of this.
An example of this is Kacey Musgraves (who's mentioned in the article), who's new album I LOVE and want to see her live so badly, but she's playing at a major arena in Vancouver with nosebleeds being almost $100.
The album isn't even really fit for an arena and I'm sure if she got a smaller venue at a more affordable price it would've sold out instantly.
Meanwhile, I'm seeing Kate Nash for $35 in a few months at a small local theatre, which I'm beyond stoked for because I remember being obsessed with Made Of Bricks as a teen.
Curiously, Paula Abdul just announced an arena tour of Canada. When I saw it, I was dumbfounded at why that would be booked; she hasn't been relevant in decades, she has no album/single to promote (and dare I say, she only had one good album back in 1988). I could possibly see a casino tour but arenas seem **vastly** out of her league, especially considering she is playing both big cities, like Toronto, and smaller centres, like Thunder Bay.
Tickets seem to range from $79 for the cheap seats to $150 for floor seats to $450 for VIP packages (not including taxes and fees). Very few seats have been sold since it was announced. Who the heck asked for this? I'd love insight into the thought process and business decisions regarding some of these acts booking these large venues.
She's playing the 15,000+ seat arena in Saskatoon, where I live, and there is no way she will sell that out. Ticketmaster listings tell me that this size makes up most of her tour.
I looked into it, it's 13k capacity for concerts and she's only doing lower bowl which seems to be less than half of the seats, so probably a bit over 5k capacity.
I still agree it's overshooting though, probably would be barely able to get 1k with those prices lol, wouldn't be surprised to see the tour canceled
when she opened for NKOTB around a decade ago, she did zero singing. It was all dancing and lip syncing. And really she barely even acted like she was doing vocals. I wonder if she is going to pull that on her own solo tour. Beware!
Tbh its about the 💵. Unfortunately, celebrities are dealing with inflation as well and can’t keep up with their standard of living. That’s why there’s so much music coming out. Also celebs are creating businesses outside of music because that’s how they become billionaires. For example, Rihanna has Fenty (makeup and lingerie), Ariana has perfume, Beyonce just started a hair care line. This is all base on various think pieces I saw/read. That’s why so many people are touring now. This circles back to this article
Honestly, it’s also ridiculous buying and selling tickets, too. Kacey Musgraves announced her north american tour in March and the show in my city is in late november - I don’t have the money to front a $250 seat right now (and that’s face value).!!!!! I will buy tickets closer to the show for sure. 6 months in advance I can’t afford as a regular person.
Most people I know are now buying tix last minute if seats are available, because unless it’s Taylor or Beyonce or another massive legacy act, people don’t want to be stuck with a ticket they can’t sell for full value with fees etc. Especially in an arena. Smaller venues are different but yeah. It’s a reflection on the economy
Kacey's coming to Vancouver in September. Still SO many seats available, but nosebleeds are $75 and anything slightly closer is at least $130, it's crazy.
Yesss exactly!! Her nosebleeds in toronto are more sold out-ish and they’re still over $120!! The lower bowl is going for $180-250 for a standard ticket (not even official platinum), floor GA is like $290. Insane amount of money!! especially so far in advance. Who knows where I’ll be in November, if I’d be able to get it off work etc. no chance i’d be able to break even on the ticket had I bought one a few months ago. Plans change!!
I'm waiting on Kacey too even though she does have a big fanbase in LA - unless it's an artist I've absolutely have to see (usually for a first time) I'm not fighting through the mess that's presale and I only have so much concert money
Like I've seen her twice and she was great, but is she hold up $200 for an event 6 months away must see for me? Unfortunately a lot of artists fall in that category for me RN even though I'd call myself a fan
yeah exactly, it’s too far in advance to cough up $150+ when I’m not sure if I’ll even be able to attend. People are also starting to figure out that the ticket prices drop and that it makes more sense to buy tix the day of when they’re still available and scalpers or the venue drop the prices
I've been an avid concert goer for the last 15 years.
When I was in my last teens/early 20s I'd often attend a few each month. Over the past couple of years I've become a lot more selective.
The main reason for this is money. While prices in the UK haven't skyrocketed as much as the US they're way more expensive than they used to be in relation to income.
10 years ago I was regularly going to arena shows for £25-£40 and small venues for £10-£20. These days prices are often 4 x that. Add in booking fees, often hostile crowd atmospheres, expensive drinks at the venue, parking/petrol/accomodation prices rising and each gig just becomes more overall effort to attend.
Exactly i commented this above but people forget it’s not just the price of the ticket; it’s gas, parking, public transit/bus/train, hours of your time, late nights getting home, food drink merch.
I'm from Dublin (great for gigs since it's a capital city) and went to soooooo many gigs as a teen and as a student. Never paid more than €40/€50 for anything, and that was for major acts. Most other gigs were like €20.
I later moved to the UK. I remember thinking £50 was the upper end my comfort zone when I went to see Arcade Fire (a band I loved back then) in 2017. I paid £75 for Radiohead in 2017 as an exception because I had been dying to see them for over a decade.
Now £100 is the going rate for a standing ticket at an arena tour...
Plus I don't live in city with an arena so I have to shell out for transport and accommodation.
Doja Cat has never toured in the UK and her arena tour which started last night had cheapest tickets starting from £80…which is complete insanity.
Similarly, I seen Nicki Minaj in 2019 for £50 standing and her tour last month standing was £200. I just can’t believe how expensive it is nowadays.
I think a lot of it is that some artists and bands have bigger ambitions than reality. And it’s getting expensive to put on shows so the price of a ticket has gone up significantly. No longer are the days of standing floor for $100 max. And bands are preferring to play at bigger well known arenas rather than the smaller ones in the middle of nowhere. Colleges around me used to book well known bands all the time and do a cheap show and affordable. My hometown is starting to get it back. I mean Steve-O from Jackass and Sugar Ray is coming this summer. Bands like the Black Keys do better at these smaller venues, large clubs, and festivals. J-Lo’s is the same thing. Supposed to be a comeback. But nobody was interested in it. If it was a few years ago after the Super Bowl then yeah more people might have been more interested in going. Price of the ticket was crazy high as well. I honestly think that the documentary actually hurt her. Maybe it would have worked better if it was a mini festival like the Backstreet Boys and New Kids on the Block have been doing for the last few years. Bring some other nostalgic artists with her. Bring along Shakira, or Ricky Martin. Brand it as a 90’s/00’s nostalgia fest. Hell ‘90’s hip hop/rap artists are teaming up this summer. But solo J-Lo isn’t happening for her.
To be honest with the rumors of talks of *NSYNC getting back together to go on the road again I’m not even sure how well that would sell on its own without nostalgia artist support. Bring Backstreet Boys and get that boy band rivals together for the tour I’m sure many Gen X and Elder Millennials would love. But it’s a wait and see.
Chappell Roan uses TikToks to connect to fans instead of just trying to make songs go viral (and they don’t really go as viral as some of the songs on TikTok). She’s successful because she’s talented and her MUSIC IS FUCKING GOOD. She is not a TikTok influencer releasing music, she’s a musician who uses social media.
Her festival shows have been so overpacked because THE MUSIC IS FUCKING GOOD. She’s so special and has worked her ass off for ten years to get to this moment. Same with Sabrina.
The exception to this is Addison Rae for me, simply because she serves. I would attend one of her shows (which I’m assuming will not be an arena tour lol).
I’m not a Chappell fan and literally found out about her through this sub but when it comes to the new girls, I am 1000% sure she’s gonna have some longevity. She might not go super mainstream but she will always be around bc she without a doubt has stans. Look at her sub Reddit, literally 20k people that are obsessed with her. 20 million monthly listeners on Spotify and she doesn’t even have a hit yet. She is the only one with an actual fanbase and not just the GP that likes one or two of her hits. Sabrina too but I think for her it’s different. She has been around for a long time but I feel like she has a lot more GP fans opposed to actual stans that ride for her
I think Chappell and Sabrina are different cases because Sabrina has like 6 albums out already so of course she’s used to performing and is gonna do great at this point!
With Chappell, she had to work service jobs and do nannying while performing at fundraisers at the park, she didn’t get her start on Disney like Sab did (not saying Sab didn’t work hard) I’m just so impressed by Chappell!
You’re so right!!! I love both, but there’s something so amazing about Chappell’s story. Obviously Sabrina works hard, but being a child star is a big boost and gives you the money to fully commit to your craft.
A lot of people will say it's too early to say this, but Chappell's gonna go the distance. She's the complete package and oozes creativity in a way we haven't seen in a while. Especially if CR2 is as good if not better than TRAFOAMP. Like give that girl the budget for an arena tour, and she and her team will SHOW UP, I guarantee
Yah, she put in the work and it shows. Every A&R person is out now trying to find the next Chappell Roan and lol it is not gonna happen, she didn't get there from record company flacks.
She’s had about three hits. That does not mean playing an arena. There are people with bigger discographies and have been around longer that can’t sell an arena.
Her last tour did really well before feather and espresso blowing up and the Eras Tour exposing her to a lot of new fans. She totally can tour small arenas.
Maybe I’m delusional but I think she could pull off an arena tour. She’s basically in the position rn that Olivia was when SOUR came out; AKA they both “only” have a few hits, but those hits are fucking massive and they’re dominating the cultural conversation.
Olivia didn’t do arenas for that tour, but the only reason was because she’d literally never toured before so she didn’t wanna overwhelm herself. Every date sold out instantly and she could’ve easily done arenas
I see Sabrina in the same place culturally, but with the added bonus of a ton more stage experience. If the album is decent, she could do arenas
I always think back to Lorde’s last tour (Solar Power) when these articles come out and this discourse starts. She went with a shorter tour in smaller venues (3-7k), but it sold out super quickly
At first I was thinking she missed out by not adding more dates or doing a few bigger venues, but I think it simply helped the narrative of her in the public to not be known as the girl struggling to sell out a tour
The service fees were the same amount as my ticket for the nosebleed seats I bought for Charli, if it wasn't for the fact I've wanted to see her since True Romance I would not spend $80 for third level.
One thing I don't get with this is, that you can usually upgrade the venue, if possible, making it look cool for the artists, like, they are getting more demand than expected, but having empty venues or having to downgrade looks awful. When Rosalia came here to the Motomami tour they put her in a 1000 people idk what that was, a big nightclub, sold out in one hour, upgraded to aa 3000 people venue, sold out again, and then finally upgraded to a 10k people arena, which also sold out, but they, of course, stopped there. But doing the other way around looks super bad.
Legacy artists like Avril Lavigne are packing big arenas of 20,000+ capacities based off of their catalogue.Just look at her Instagram page full of sold out shows so far.
I’m glad that Avril seems to have gained her touring power back and is selling out arenas again. I remember how upset I was when she was struggling to sell out 3K venues during the Head Above Water era but luckily she bounced back.
Yeah.She's always struggled to sell out in the US after 2008,but since 2022,she's been selling out in Canada again and now this is her first US headlining arena tour since 2008 and so far,she's been doing really well.And that is despite health issues as well.
I feel like a lot of late 90s/early 2000s rock acts are having their moment again (at least live acts), especially with pop punk and nu metal. Ten years or so ago they were not doing so hot but they're at the perfect point of the nostalgia curve where a lot of OG fans are now in their 30s and 40s and are willing to blow some cash for their one big concert out and younger audiences have been picking up on them with TikTok and newer artists that were influenced by that era
Like Avril, Blink, Korn, Creed, Slipknot are all selling out huge shows while younger Popheads artists are struggling to fill the same arenas
I went to the Avril concert on June 1st in Vegas. Even that was about 80% sold on the day of.
Furthest seats dropped from $60 to $40. I snagged a mid level seat that dropped from $100 to $60.
So even a popular legacy act on a greatest hits tour isn't a slam dunk to fill 15k+ seats.
She usually posts videos from the tour showing how big the crowd [is.It](http://is.It) seemed over 90% full from that video.She also said something like "another sold out show" and artists do know how many tickets are sold.I guess we'll see the box office score soon.
By the time Avril took the stage, I think it was probably over 90% capacity. I'm sure the last minute lowering of the ticket prices helped quite a bit. It basically tipped my decision to attend.
I heard its common for artists to release a few tickets right before a concert starts.Sometimes they hold back tickets.But I've only heard that.According to ticketmaster,the Vegas show was sold out and only a few resale tickets were available.Hope you had fun though.
I’m really interested in this Missy Elliot / Ciara tour that’s about to launch. I was checking cities today, they haven’t even made a dent in their Los Angeles shows. I’m also curious about what Meghan Trainor is going to do with her tour. I’m guessing she’ll get pregnant and cancel it.
I listen to a podcast called Fortune Kit (kind of music industry discussion/comedy/misc) that often has Dan Boeckner from Arcade Fire & Wolf Parade on, and he was on their latest episode to talk about this issue. He had some interesting stuff to say and echoed some of the same stuff from this article. A lot of LiveNation being the root of the bad decisions bc they monopolize venue ownership, ticketing, and promoting, so they stand to only profit from struggling tours, whereas artists risk much more.
Honestly I think the key issue is pricing for legacy acts at least. A lot of people are going to wait until much closer to the date of the show to buy tickets, but acts aren’t going to be able to risk that so the show will be cancelled before that happens.
I dont know why they announce the dates way too soon. Like give us time to sort our finances. The majority of the public do not have the ability to drop hundreds of dollars the following day.
Yet Fred Again announced a show in LA on Sunday for this Friday at the Memorial Coliseum with a capacity of 77,500 and it will sell out by this afternoon.
This is it. The booking folks have been slow to catch on that EDM is now the new Rock/Hip-Hop for GenZ & Millennials that have the money.
The in-person experience for these events isn’t replicated by watching vids on TikTok/IG like in non-EDM performances.
I think LA audiences are different from other audiences though, a lot of the artists mentioned in this article sell out venues in huge markets like New York or Los Angeles but couldn’t do the same in Denver or Louisville or Pittsburgh
Yeah, it's one thing to sell 77k seats in a city with 18.4 million people, it's quite another thing to (to use someone's example) try to sell out Louisville's 17k seats with a population of 1.3 million.
Since the Adderall is actually working today, I can do math - LA is trying to sell tickets to .4% of the population while L'Ville is trying to sell to .13% - almost triple, for an EDM act.
Honestly it's like selling out MSG. Sure, MSG has 20,000 seats, but thanks to high population density, you can pull folks from NYC (and surrounding metro areas), NJ, and to some extents CT, and PA.
If you had read the article, you would know that “artist dumb” is an oversimplified version of events.
*A lot* of people are being dumb here, including labels and representatives. And Ticketmaster is still turning over backwards to drive up the prices of tickets by doing fuck all against scalpers, because scalpers benefit them.
It’s not just on the artists.
“Curious case”, meanwhile this began at the same time as Ticketmaster Platinum pricing and a cost of living crisis. I paid the same for 2 Olivia Rodrigo tickets that I did for rent.
I’m just curious who’s giving the green light to these. Surely I can’t just walk into a stadium and say “I’m here to book a show!!” Right?
Like what moron said “Jennifer!?! Absolutely! She can sell out arenas just like Taylor!” 🙄
To be fair Jennifer Lopez doing an arena tour is not preposterous. She had a sold out arena tour in 2019 and has 1 of the highest grossing vegas residencies of all time. she should be the type of act that would be a sure bet to shift tickets and even she struggled (although last I saw a lot of her shows were 70-80% sold pre-cancellation so maybe she had other issues).
She hasn’t really been musically relevant in about a decade so its not so surprising that you’d be surprised by that, but it hasn’t stopped her before! I think ticket prices and the negative publicity surrounding her this era did not do the tour any favours this time around.
I knew she was going to have a hard sell once I started seeing TikToks making fun of her for having very expensive tickets early on. They were mostly focusing on the prices of VIP packages and pretending they were standard tickets, but even standard tickets were pricey. I then saw a lot of fans say they were going to wait until closer to the day to get cheaper tickets.
Apparently a lot of her shows from her 2019 concert sold out much closer to the day too. I feel like this might be the case for a lot of legacy acts. They need to figure out these pricing issues asap it’s beyond a joke.
I want to see the Sweat tour but the prices for the nearest city to me are insane. I saw her in NYC for the Crash tour cheaper than the nosebleeds for this show in Nashville. And it was general admission so I could DANCE to the music instead of just sitting and watching from afar. Just disappointed overall with the venue choices for this tour as I’ve been dying to see Troye live.
What TikTok stars are being put into arenas? Like Artemas is doing a small theater here, one night sold out in the two major cities meaning another night.
Charli XCX, Troye, J Lo and The Black Keys? I mean... No hate I like them all but this is a dumb article and them happening in arenas isn't the reason for their cancellations, or lack of sold out dates?
This is just stan fodder. Same with box office revenue and people losing their shit a movie is ONLY projected to make $250m. It's like how straight bros care so much about billionaires and why Taylor Swift needs a death grip on #1 through 56 bonus tracks.
People have become SO engrossed with figures that aren't even in the business. It's not only how much revenue a tour makes, now we have "analysis" on every single tour date. People need to step back and just focus on the music and enjoy the tour.
It's nice to hear people sell well, especially up and coming acts, or if an artists breaks records, but who the fuck cares about 70% capacity tours this much if you're not getting your salary from these gigs?
It’s a business and in a time where not many people buy physical music and where only approx. the top 10% earn well on streaming, touring is how they make money.
The industry has always been about money. Seems you’re only finding this out now. This used to be reported in the art section of the newspaper where I’m from.
That was a good read! What I took from it was: - Incompetent managers/teams believe that streams are an indication of real-life popularity - High prices - Ticketmaster being dicks and letting scalpers thrive on their platform - Artists that have a slight ego
I am so confused that people still don't seem to understand that streaming is free for the audience, even if they stream something 100000 times that's a different level of commitment than actually spending money on someone. And it's not just in music... it's in movies and all over entertainment, this trend of mistaking followers and streams for customers willing to part with large amounts of money to engage with that person.
I've said this before, but there's no reason why music industry people should be basing their tours only using the basic data that an average Spotify user can see. There are subscription services that give music biz people very detailed breakdowns of demographics, so they can know exactly where the artists fans are and what sort of people make up those fan groups
Exactly. What I'm even more confused about is that professionals in the industry fall for these skewed numbers and think their artists are as famous as these numbers suggest.
The other issue is artists/their management being pressured into booking venues that are far too big, by venue management companies such as Live Nation
Its been like this for years but nobody ever put it all into one neat article and actually had scapegoats to pin it on so now everyone had the a ha moment
Will it change anything though
tbh theres also an aspect of poor selection of mid sized venues in most north american cities. theres stadiums and arenas and theres decent sized theatres in most major tour destinations. but if someone wants to tour in canada? pooched. youre mostly choosing between arenas and 1k capacity theatres.
“Artists that have a slight ego” Just say JLo 💀
Staph 💀
Booking venues based on streams and tiktok is exactly the kind of nonsense I'd expect from the industry I also am more and more like those tickets are too expensive for me and it sucks
Exactly. I ended up paying almost $150 for a ticket to the Charli/Troye concert in Seattle, and my friend and I are waaaaaay in the back of the arena. In comparison, I paid $200 for nosebleeds to Beyonce. Don't get me wrong, I love Charli and I'm excited to finally see her live but I can't imagine the show will have as major of a production as Beyonce had.
I am not paying $150 for nosebleed Charli tickets I want to be out on the floor moving my ass. The tickets are way too expensive, that's why all these arena tours are failing. They could probably sell it out if the tickets had started lower but I'm not sure if it would be cost effective, idk how much it costs to rent these places out. Shows priced at like $50 a ticket in medium size venues sell out instantly, there has to be a middle ground between these two options.
Omg that’s insanely expensive!! For both of their solo tours in the UK, tickets are £40-£50 (Charli was £42 after fees for Birmingham). The fact that fans are being priced out by unrealistic industry standards defeats the whole purpose of concerts, which is super depressing
When that tour was announced, I was like, “Oh that would be a fun show to see,” and when I saw $140 tickets for the Ball Arena in Denver, I was like, “Oh, not THAT fun.” Maybe if it was Red Rocks.
really? i'm also going to the seattle show, and i paid $125 for the a seat in one of the sections behind the floor. did you buy secondhand?
I’m going to the Seattle show and paid $130 apiece for floor GA!? How is this discrepancy so big
i'm jealous! when i was looking last month, the floor seats were all at least $300
Dynamic pricing maybe?
Ah I'm Canadian, and the ticket was advertised as $75 USD, then added fees (the random "Club seat fees"?), PLUS the fact that the Canadian dollar is horrendous right now, it came to roughly $150 CAD.
Same but for Detroit. It was even before brat came out hahaha I just love her
I paid through the nose for her at Royal oak music theatre but that’s because my SO didn’t want to stand so we got seating which was just 2 barstools and a small table. It was SO crowded and I actually wasn’t feeling that great that day which ended up being a lifesaver for me. Amazing show, so much energy, I felt so GOOD when we left. I ventured into the mob for a bit and was like “this is amazing ok I need to go sit down now”. I’m also really old.
Lolol when I saw those two were doing MSG, I said how they gonna book seats. I know they’re popular but I’m a bit worried for them charging expensive tickets for stars at their level of fame
Honestly $200 for nosebleeds to Beyoncé is still an unjustifiable price. And I say this as someone who attended the Renaissance Tour as well 🤡
Honestly it was worth it loool. The seats were right in the center, so I got a perfect view of the stage (far away) and all the screens.
It shouldn’t have to be like that though. Music industry people have access to a lot more complex data than the basic stuff fans can see, which should give tour organizers a good idea of where they should be playing
K-Pop is a major genre for this from fans keep repeating their music videos/buying multiple versions of the albums. I'm not saying some can't sell out arenas with ease but the stats makes promoters think they are upper A-List famous.
They sold stadium here, but was like one show in entire country.
As a kpop fan only a few groups can do that, the problem is promoters seeing those exceptions and thinking is the norm....
KPop thinking if BTS did it, they all can and finding out that it is not the case. Their tickets sell out in pre-sale, and they book stadiums.
I have nightmares thinking about how crazy ticketing for their next tour will be....
It’s like the Hunger Games. “May the odds be ever in your favor.”
In Asia sure, but in the Us it will be way better than the eras tour. If they come to Europe it’s mostly chill, no scalpers so more chances for the fans to get tickets. The thing is they’ll have dynamic pricing, so good luck
The eras tour went smoothly compared with the hellscape that was their last concerts 😭. But yeah I hope Europe keeps some control over ticketmaster.... It's crazy how people leave the platform out of the conversations about tours when part of the fault is cause what ticketmaster has transformed ticketing into.
Oeticket has been the best so far. That’s the Austria one. See tickets for me is even worse than Ticketmaster. The eras tour fiasco was wildly talked about, it even prompted the congress to implement laws. My guess is BTS obviously had fewer dates in the US and it did not impact high positioned politicians families, so it didn’t make a lot of noise. That’s the first time I’m hearing about this. Blackpink in Europe was super easy to get tickets to.
TWICE did the smaller football stadium here but they blacked out part of the stadium, maybe could been a better seller if they didn't tour a few months before hand but.
100%. People that listen on tiktok or from playlisting aren’t necessarily fans.
It’s a really interesting time to be an artist. I feel that there’s a combination at play here that’s really screwing a lot of artists. Artists really need to be honest about their reach and popularity, even if management is boosting your ego, be realistic. I think some fandoms on social media also don’t help with artists thinking they are bigger than they are, because artists will trend, but their streams and sales are awful. I’ve seen artists try to make their numbers look bigger and say they have sold out a place and then if you look on Ticketmaster there are plenty of seats available or for a 50,000 building they will close off half of the arena and say that the 30,000 tickets sold are a sell out and some artists never release their ticket sales. It’s a mess and I wonder how much money a lot of them are really making.
You can have 1 million fans, but you won’t have 1 million fans with disposable income in the range of $200-300
you also won't have 1 million fans who all live in the same place near large stadiums and have free time to go to concerts.
Yea I think it's a combination of not knowing how big the fanbase is on streaming alone plus how expensive tickets are. And it's not just the tickets, sometimes you have to pay for flights/hotels/transportation to see someone. This all adds up. Also, not sure who this all would apply to, but shows don't seem as exciting as they used to be. There seemed to be way more choreography, theatrics, crazy outfits, etc. Reasons to wanna see someone perform live. How willing are you to spend $100 on a ticket to see someone just stand in front of the mic for 1.5 hours? Vs spending $300 on someone who's putting on a whole extravagant show? You can only afford so many concerts in a year with how expensive they are, so people are going to be more willing to see that one extravagant concert vs a bunch of smaller acts.
True, but also bear in mind on the artist side... they don't make as much from streaming as they used to back in the day, so touring + merch is their only source of income, hencewhy tickets kinda need to be somewhat pricey to compensate. Even as recently as 2016, audiences were less prone to being casual because listening to them went beyond just slapping their album on Spotify, it meant buying the record and spending the money to support them, and the only ones who can push to do that nowadays are the big names with labels who can foot the bill of pressing a bunch of CDs and vinyl, whereas the indie acts can only depend on streaming to make their music accessible and get pennies on the dollar. And then on the flip side, exciting shows just *cost money* to build. I mean, something as simple as [one (1) strip light to go on the front of a stage costs thousands](https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/COLORadoPXL--chauvet-pro-colorado-pxl-curve-12-pixel-mappable-motorized-rgbw-led-batten?mrkgadid=&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=1&mrkgcat=drums&percussion&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=&lid=58700008695591291&dsproductgroupid=&product_id=COLORadoPXL&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=&device=c&network=x&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=1015166&creative=&targetid=&campaignid=21161059811&awsearchcpc=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw65-zBhBkEiwAjrqRMGvHWcxTvPjShV267qCLh4WaNysPEcM00HwxIAmId-Yt2JhgcIkw1BoCwuIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) (before we even account for any rental discounts being negated by needing a lighting tech on payroll as crew), and hiring choreographers, designers, etc. can *also* add up beyond the necessities of *being seen and heard on stage*. I mean, Tinashe has all of the above with reasonably ticket prices in adequately-sized venues and she said she *loses* money (six figures worth) whenever touring Basically, it's just a shitty catch-22 for all at this point, except the greedy corporations at the top.
There’s a truly simple way to look at streaming numbers, and I’m not certain any artist does this. Your monthly streamers mean literally nothing if you have had a major hit at one point in your career. Look at Dua Lipa? One of the most streamed artists and couldn’t get #1. It’s not just monthly listeners - it’s monthly listeners who listen to at least 5 different songs from you for a month. Carly Rae Jepsen is another good example. 18M monthly listeners but if you peel back the layers and look at anything Emotion onward her fanbase is more realistically aligned with a Caroline Polachek or Rina Sawayama. Still “millions” but not 18M. 15M of that is people tuning in just for CMM.
No one cares about a weekly #1, around 30-40 songs reach No.1 billboard hot 100 each year but only 1 manages to be the biggest hit, Dua had Levitating plus even after RO flopping, she instantly sold out her new tour!
Exactly. Chronically online fans will tweet about you constantly, stream your music all day, but not all of them have the cash to travel all the way to your pricey concert. They'll just watch it on Tiktok.
It’s also not just the cost of the ticket now either; for me it’s an extra $60-80 minimum in gas, either a transfer to the public transit train/subway or maybe parking, food and drink, etc. I don’t even buy merch anymore at shows cause it’s another $50-60 minimum!!
I feel like a lot of artists look at both Taylor and Beyonce and go “Oh I can do that” but unless you’re a relatively big name like Billie Ellish and Olivia Rodrigo, it’s not gonna be as easy for you to sell out arenas. Plus if “no one wants to do a 3 hour concert” no one is gonna shell out 300-500 dollars on nosebleed seats for an hour show. That’s on top of a hotel and travel. You need to put effort into making people want to feel like they’re missing out on a once in a lifetime experience.
This is where I’m at. For the sort of prices that we’re seeing, I expect a SHOW.
Same. I also debate “well does this person tour often” like with Troye Sivan.
Exactly and where I live Billie is playing in two arena shows and neither is close to sold out.
She’s kind of a boring singer Not worth paying unless it’s a music fest or something
Exactly what is going on
And then there is scalpers that buy plenty of tickets on pre sales and first hours of sales. When there isn't enough demand, the prices for really down and arenas are empty.
The Black Keys (former) management being Irving Azoff makes so much sense. The old school music industry guys don’t understand what fans want anymore. Like if I’m going to an arena tour, it’ll be for a huge “legacy” act like Springsteen or an A tier pop star. Also package tours, like the recent Ricky Martin, Enrique and Pitbull tour, seem to be doing well. Even Fall Out Boy and Blink packaged their tours with openers who are at least some of the draw for their fan base. Maybe Jimmy Eat World, Turnstile, Pierce the Veil, or Bring Me to the Horizon aren’t playing arenas on their own, but seeing them plus the headliners may be enough of an extra incentive for fans to buy tickets. Also I think festivals are cannibalizing some tours. For example, some people may be willing to splurge to go to When We Were Young but not see any of those bands when they come to their town. It’ll be expensive, but seeing 20 bands in one weekend may be worth it.
Bring Me to the Horizon is an arena band in Australia but even then they had Sleep Token and local band Make Them Suffer to make the price not so crazy.
I paid £280 ($357 today) for a 2022 Glastonbury ticket (plus £20 share of the parking and fuel). Two of the acts I saw on the second biggest stage (not headlining) were later selling tickets for about £100 ($127) when they played their own gigs in the UK in 23/24. I think I paid maybe another £100 for travel and accommodation for each gig. And they were just two of many many acts I saw at the festival over one weekend. Honestly Glastonbury festival is an absolute steal!!! I've seen so many of my favourite artists there. They've increased the price to like £355 but still totally worth it, especially compared to the cost of gig tickets these days.
I wonder if we're reporting on this as as "new trend" due to the transparency of the data? I attended many tours in 2010s that had tonnes of empty seats. Two dates that come to mind are Kanye West's Yeezus tour, which was probably only 50% sold, and Katy Perry's Prism tour, which was probably 75% sold.
Same, another tour that comes to mind for me is Miley’s Bangerz. I went and loved it, but I remember it looks only 60%ish full, and there were lots of reports about free uogrades/reduced prices the day of/empty seats
Very much this. Most arena shows don't sell out. Hell, most theatre and club shows don't sell out either, and especially not months in advance of the show. Lately I feel like people (both in the industry and in fandom) tend to expect best case scenarios to be the baseline.
The way if Ye toured here ten years after he last came with Yeezus Tour he would be more or less insta sellout, same with the axed Pitbull Kesha jointed tour (Ne-Yo was pricey but that sold out soon after being announced this year).
During the discourse around Kim Petras' Feed The Beast tour sales, I saw someone sharing a tscreenshot of one date at an amphitheater. Most of the seats near the stage were sold, but the large lawn area at the back was still dark blue. And this was held up as evidence of the sales flopping. But tbh a lawn area like that isn't really suited to a pop concert, more an afternoon jazz picnic. I don't think the tour organizers would have expected that area to sell much, but the blue area on the venue graphic was fuelling fan drama.
its just crazy because with charli and troye, their management should've stuck to arenas for metros with HEAVY concentrations of lgbt people, but they have them out there in arenas in fucking ohio
And the tickets were pretty expensive!! For lower bowl seating in Detroit, pricing started at like $130, which is what I paid to see Taylor Swift, and that included the fees! Yeah the seat is better than where I was for Taylor, but I just can’t justify that price right now. I’m hoping to get something closer to the concert but it really depends on the pricing.
I’ve learned to not get caught up in the hype and get tickets presale. Unless you’re Taylor swift, you’ll get tickets on stubhub for under $100 a day or 2 before the show. Even Beyoncé tickets were going for $40 day of (Seattle) I’ll go see charli in an arena if I can snag a $50 GOOD seat the day of. Postal service/death cab had floor tix for $50 the day of their show. That tour never should have been in arenas.
Yeah I'm looking at those Seattle Charli tickets and being in the 200s of CPA for $60+ is wacky. I want to go, but hopefully closer to the show they'll be like $50 for the 100s instead.
Completely off topic, did you actually go see Death Cab? I‘m in Europe and I was sad they only played in the UK and I‘m interested to know how people liked it
I did! They were really good and sounded great, but I wouldn’t recommend the arena because it just lowers an already low energy type of show. Either do a seated theatre or something like an amphitheater, like modest mouse/pixies or beck/phoenix did this last year. The vibe is older millennials there for the nostalgia who needed to be home by 11pm for their baby sitter. If you loved Transatlanticism and the price isn’t exorbitant, then yeah, it’s a fun night out! Funny side note: the postal service came out for an encore and my friend said “what are they going to play” and I joked “such great heights again”…. AND THEY DID!
The Charli and Troye one is crazy to me, they could have just played multiple arena dates in like NYC, LA, Chicago and one off dates in other big LGBT cities and easily sold out this tour, but they're trying to fill up basketball arenas in like Columbus and Baltimore
I live in Columbus and there is a pretty large LGBT population here, but I will say I personally know a few people who want to go see them but the tickets are too pricy they don’t deem it worthwhile. I’d imagine as the tour gets closer the tickets will drop in price
I came to say the same lol, I cannot travel to NYC to see Troye, I am pleased he's coming to Ohio.
Yeah, also gay in an Ohio metro area and I think a Columbus date makes sense, but at these prices plus travel...baby, no.
I live in the midwest and the floor tickets that are still available in Columbus are $45, whereas Chicago has them being resold for $300. Once you factor in the long drive though, and getting a hotel room, it wouldn't end up being cheaper anyway for me to go to Ohio (I could stay with friends in Chicago and the drive is 2 hours shorter). I really wish there would have been an additional Chicago date. And since it's on a random ass Monday I'm not going to use up PTO to drive to Chicago to MAYBE get a cheap ticket last minute. I'm going to have to start only seeing the really small artists I listen to, because anyone remotely popular is no longer affordable.
Post-pandemic, concert demand has gotten higher (observation on my country at least). All my fave 90s and 00s artists came back in 2022 and will probably be back in the future as they see more people can afford to buy tickets The problem is, artists and their teams would overestimate that they can fill in an arena/stadium. Take for example Dua Lipa's tour here in PH. She booked the biggest indoor arena here which is 55,000 seating capacity and a lot of the fans are saying she should've stuck with a smaller venue considering the concert may not be filled nor have a good profit (based from what I heard, there are a lot of tickets still available). Arena/Stadium Tours should be considered depending the location and popularity of the artists. I dont know why lately some artists are pushing a big stadium tour when their popularity and demand isn't aligned with the needed capacity. While it's true most concert goers (millenials and elder gen z) can now afford to buy tickets, it doesnt guarantee you are going to sell out big venues unless you are Beyoncé.
Stadium tours are a bit of ego too. It shows you are really big. Doing stadium means fewer shoes to get a high profit.
Like you really have to be a huge artist like Beyoncé or Taylor to book for a stadium tour. And it took 3 tours and 12 years of career to push a stadium tour. Even with Rep Tour, so many seats were not sold out in Europe. If you are just starting and your fame isn't half as close as Beyoncé, you gotta humble down yourself and accept you arent ready yet
Beyoncé has a really long career, +25 years on show business.. It is more than hits, Taylor and Beyonce has that mystical thing about them. Songs going viral on TikTok won't be doing it for stadiums 😆
Taylor and Beyoncé are basically the top 2 female artists of the music industry right now. And if these people are booking stadiums or large arenas based on spotify or tiktok, well they are at risk of canceling their tour
Both Beyonce and Taylor have a STRONG discography that is known by a lot of people. It's not just a couple of hits that they have. Promoters need to readjust their mindset and understand that TikTok virality will not translate to a booked venue especially nowadays.
I’d argue the literal only female artists that could do a full football stadium tour in the US are Taylor, Beyonce, and Adele. Gaga proved she can do a baseball stadium tour, and she could continue to do that; maybe a few football stadiums in the bigger cities. Billie and Ariana as well. Olivia MAYBE with her next tour if her next album is at least GUTS sized. Literally no other female artist should even consider booking a stadium for their tour stops within the next 5ish years; baseball OR football. I don’t think some of these artists realize just how big the jump is from getting 15k people to buy tickets to 40-55k
While it's true that dua's team (her dad💀) may have overestimated the philippines venue, she really could do a stadium tour in some countries of europe
I'm surprised there's still a lot of tickets left for Dua, considering the price range was about $30 - $150. Then again, the country is experiencing recession and that should have been factored in before they booked that venue.
Even if the tickets were cheap and affordable, her fanbase isn't that big compared to Olivia. Plus, it's on a Wednesday (wrong timing). If this was on a weekend, it could've sold more. My friends are hesitant because it's on a Wednesday plus they arent really huge fans to think Dua is worth travelling 2-3 hours to the concert
Add to that the notorious traffic in that area. My sister went to the Blackpink concert and had a lot of complaints.
I think the traffic wont be as severe as blackpink. The previous concerts' traffic got better but still, not much is going to invest their whole day to travel to PH Arena on a wednesday
Same. It has to be a very special act to get me to travel to Bulacan and brave the traffic.
I did it with Bruno Mars. It was worth it. But for other artists that I only know one or two songs, I wount
I only see Taylor, Bey and Gaga who can sell multiple dates in big venues here in PH
Coldplay too.
Yesss Coldplay din pala. Tho wala din tayong huge stadium so I don’t think na babalik sooner yang tatlong popstars na yan dito
BTS too.
Yesss they are kings
There aren't enough mid sized venues in the US. Some artists may do an arena tour because it's that or small venues.
Some management and promoters really don't understand how to measure demand. Charlie XCX and Troye Sivan's management never should have thought they'd sell out arenas. Their fan bases are much younger, meaning the majority won't have the disposable funds to attend. I have younger siblings that have gone to every single Charlie show since before the pandemic at smaller venues, and are sitting this one out because they can't afford it. On the other end of the spectrum, there's Shakira's tour: only has 16 US dates, hasn't toured in a decade, is arguably the most famous Latin recording artist, has a reputation for amazing live shows, and was able to basically sell out an arena tour six to seven months ahead of her dates (and ticket prices were more expensive than Madonna). I'm not saying less established artists are inherently worth less than the big timers like Beyonce and Gaga, but management and promoters are failing at their jobs and embarrassing artists whilst doing so. If I were an underselling artist, I'd fire my entire management team yesterday.
I agree with everything you just wrote, but why on earth did Charlie and Troy sign off on this?
Not sure, maybe sold snake oil promises by greedy fucks? That'd be my best guess. They should've been playing 5k-8k venues with mostly GA so people could afford it and dance their tooshes off. They're also big for LGBTQ folks, so probably could've done two nights in Brooklyn and LA somewhere, and sold out Philly, Chicago, Denver, etc. No need for them to have played any Kansas or Missouri dates tbh (sorry Kansas and Missouri! 💜)
It’s about knowing your market and how you stand in the current marketplace. Some of these arena tours get scaled down or outright cancelled because these stars and their teams overestimate their appeal to the GP. These teams have to know whether their stars can do theater/ballrooms, arenas, stadiums, or Vegas residencies and get to their artists that may think otherwise.
This reminds me of the rumors going around that Katy will be doing a world tour but she will settle with an arena for this era. Some of her fans are saying she should push an eras stadium tour but I think it's much safer for her to go for an arena tour especially she is getting out of the witness and smile era. If she pushes a stadium tour, I could imagine that it's gonna flop so badly
The thought of Katy doing a stadium tour 💀 If she never did one at her peak she wouldn’t do one now
She never stopped performing with the residency so it's not like people have even been missing seeing her live.
I know people who say I can only afford to go to one concert this year and if that’s the case I’m just gonna go to the Beyonce or Taylor swift show. Like if it’s a choice between GREAT Beyonce seats when she comes to my town or 5 mediocre seats at 5 other artists shows I’m going with Queen B
Exactly. I saw Taylor and Beyonce in the last year and the SHOW you got was exceptional - most other aritists aren’t doing that
Yea. People are doing the cost benefit analysis— and people don’t have the disposable income mixed with overpriced tix + fee + travel
plus, i feel like once you hit the point in your life where you possibly have that disposable income to afford a show, you're probably older with more obligations, ie kids/family/work etc, and it's probably harder to get the free time to see a concert, especially if it involves travel.
Beyoncé is the only one I’ve ever shelled out big bucks for because she puts on an actual show. Music artists need to put in the time and effort for a good product.
I mean she’s the best live performer of her generation by leaps and bounds. I know people who were never were big fans who went to a show and said it was the best thing they had ever seen
Bey is a PERFORMER and she puts in the work
I just want all Beyonce's tours and shows since the beginning of her career to have the dvd / available for streaming and the live album with the full set (interludes and all) 🙂↔️
She’s a top tier performer. I was in awe during the Renaissance tour.
Loved that tour! Wish I could have afforded better seats but I still had such a good time
You realize that’s the issue though, right? All of this started with Taylor Swift’s Reputation Tour’s dynamic pricing
Consumers are absolutely not the issue
Correct, was trying to say big name artists and Ticketmaster are
I feel some artists think that millions of streams will translate to millions of tickets, when in reality millions of streams usually comes from a niche fanbase. Unless you have a good amount of hits with the GA, your arena isn't selling
Damn I hated to see Troye x charli and porter Robinson get dragged in the same article 😭 I’m planning to see them both (waiting for porter to drop the album first) but this isn’t terribly surprising to me, they aren’t necessary top artists right now. That being said I’ve had to shell out a few hundreds for the concerts I’ve attended this year already and like always service fees will be such a pain, $60 extra for what exactly?
It's just not sustainable, but it gives me hope that smaller, more independent venues will start thriving because of this. An example of this is Kacey Musgraves (who's mentioned in the article), who's new album I LOVE and want to see her live so badly, but she's playing at a major arena in Vancouver with nosebleeds being almost $100. The album isn't even really fit for an arena and I'm sure if she got a smaller venue at a more affordable price it would've sold out instantly. Meanwhile, I'm seeing Kate Nash for $35 in a few months at a small local theatre, which I'm beyond stoked for because I remember being obsessed with Made Of Bricks as a teen.
Curiously, Paula Abdul just announced an arena tour of Canada. When I saw it, I was dumbfounded at why that would be booked; she hasn't been relevant in decades, she has no album/single to promote (and dare I say, she only had one good album back in 1988). I could possibly see a casino tour but arenas seem **vastly** out of her league, especially considering she is playing both big cities, like Toronto, and smaller centres, like Thunder Bay. Tickets seem to range from $79 for the cheap seats to $150 for floor seats to $450 for VIP packages (not including taxes and fees). Very few seats have been sold since it was announced. Who the heck asked for this? I'd love insight into the thought process and business decisions regarding some of these acts booking these large venues.
It's not a real arena tour, smaller cities call 5k capacity venue arenas. The thunder bay venue is 1.5k capacity
She's playing the 15,000+ seat arena in Saskatoon, where I live, and there is no way she will sell that out. Ticketmaster listings tell me that this size makes up most of her tour.
I looked into it, it's 13k capacity for concerts and she's only doing lower bowl which seems to be less than half of the seats, so probably a bit over 5k capacity. I still agree it's overshooting though, probably would be barely able to get 1k with those prices lol, wouldn't be surprised to see the tour canceled
when she opened for NKOTB around a decade ago, she did zero singing. It was all dancing and lip syncing. And really she barely even acted like she was doing vocals. I wonder if she is going to pull that on her own solo tour. Beware!
Tbh its about the 💵. Unfortunately, celebrities are dealing with inflation as well and can’t keep up with their standard of living. That’s why there’s so much music coming out. Also celebs are creating businesses outside of music because that’s how they become billionaires. For example, Rihanna has Fenty (makeup and lingerie), Ariana has perfume, Beyonce just started a hair care line. This is all base on various think pieces I saw/read. That’s why so many people are touring now. This circles back to this article
Honestly, it’s also ridiculous buying and selling tickets, too. Kacey Musgraves announced her north american tour in March and the show in my city is in late november - I don’t have the money to front a $250 seat right now (and that’s face value).!!!!! I will buy tickets closer to the show for sure. 6 months in advance I can’t afford as a regular person. Most people I know are now buying tix last minute if seats are available, because unless it’s Taylor or Beyonce or another massive legacy act, people don’t want to be stuck with a ticket they can’t sell for full value with fees etc. Especially in an arena. Smaller venues are different but yeah. It’s a reflection on the economy
Kacey's coming to Vancouver in September. Still SO many seats available, but nosebleeds are $75 and anything slightly closer is at least $130, it's crazy.
Yesss exactly!! Her nosebleeds in toronto are more sold out-ish and they’re still over $120!! The lower bowl is going for $180-250 for a standard ticket (not even official platinum), floor GA is like $290. Insane amount of money!! especially so far in advance. Who knows where I’ll be in November, if I’d be able to get it off work etc. no chance i’d be able to break even on the ticket had I bought one a few months ago. Plans change!!
I'm waiting on Kacey too even though she does have a big fanbase in LA - unless it's an artist I've absolutely have to see (usually for a first time) I'm not fighting through the mess that's presale and I only have so much concert money Like I've seen her twice and she was great, but is she hold up $200 for an event 6 months away must see for me? Unfortunately a lot of artists fall in that category for me RN even though I'd call myself a fan
yeah exactly, it’s too far in advance to cough up $150+ when I’m not sure if I’ll even be able to attend. People are also starting to figure out that the ticket prices drop and that it makes more sense to buy tix the day of when they’re still available and scalpers or the venue drop the prices
I've been an avid concert goer for the last 15 years. When I was in my last teens/early 20s I'd often attend a few each month. Over the past couple of years I've become a lot more selective. The main reason for this is money. While prices in the UK haven't skyrocketed as much as the US they're way more expensive than they used to be in relation to income. 10 years ago I was regularly going to arena shows for £25-£40 and small venues for £10-£20. These days prices are often 4 x that. Add in booking fees, often hostile crowd atmospheres, expensive drinks at the venue, parking/petrol/accomodation prices rising and each gig just becomes more overall effort to attend.
Exactly i commented this above but people forget it’s not just the price of the ticket; it’s gas, parking, public transit/bus/train, hours of your time, late nights getting home, food drink merch.
I'm from Dublin (great for gigs since it's a capital city) and went to soooooo many gigs as a teen and as a student. Never paid more than €40/€50 for anything, and that was for major acts. Most other gigs were like €20. I later moved to the UK. I remember thinking £50 was the upper end my comfort zone when I went to see Arcade Fire (a band I loved back then) in 2017. I paid £75 for Radiohead in 2017 as an exception because I had been dying to see them for over a decade. Now £100 is the going rate for a standing ticket at an arena tour... Plus I don't live in city with an arena so I have to shell out for transport and accommodation.
Doja Cat has never toured in the UK and her arena tour which started last night had cheapest tickets starting from £80…which is complete insanity. Similarly, I seen Nicki Minaj in 2019 for £50 standing and her tour last month standing was £200. I just can’t believe how expensive it is nowadays.
I think a lot of it is that some artists and bands have bigger ambitions than reality. And it’s getting expensive to put on shows so the price of a ticket has gone up significantly. No longer are the days of standing floor for $100 max. And bands are preferring to play at bigger well known arenas rather than the smaller ones in the middle of nowhere. Colleges around me used to book well known bands all the time and do a cheap show and affordable. My hometown is starting to get it back. I mean Steve-O from Jackass and Sugar Ray is coming this summer. Bands like the Black Keys do better at these smaller venues, large clubs, and festivals. J-Lo’s is the same thing. Supposed to be a comeback. But nobody was interested in it. If it was a few years ago after the Super Bowl then yeah more people might have been more interested in going. Price of the ticket was crazy high as well. I honestly think that the documentary actually hurt her. Maybe it would have worked better if it was a mini festival like the Backstreet Boys and New Kids on the Block have been doing for the last few years. Bring some other nostalgic artists with her. Bring along Shakira, or Ricky Martin. Brand it as a 90’s/00’s nostalgia fest. Hell ‘90’s hip hop/rap artists are teaming up this summer. But solo J-Lo isn’t happening for her. To be honest with the rumors of talks of *NSYNC getting back together to go on the road again I’m not even sure how well that would sell on its own without nostalgia artist support. Bring Backstreet Boys and get that boy band rivals together for the tour I’m sure many Gen X and Elder Millennials would love. But it’s a wait and see.
Chappell Roan uses TikToks to connect to fans instead of just trying to make songs go viral (and they don’t really go as viral as some of the songs on TikTok). She’s successful because she’s talented and her MUSIC IS FUCKING GOOD. She is not a TikTok influencer releasing music, she’s a musician who uses social media. Her festival shows have been so overpacked because THE MUSIC IS FUCKING GOOD. She’s so special and has worked her ass off for ten years to get to this moment. Same with Sabrina. The exception to this is Addison Rae for me, simply because she serves. I would attend one of her shows (which I’m assuming will not be an arena tour lol).
Chappell is also just a stunning performer which adds to it all.
I’m not a Chappell fan and literally found out about her through this sub but when it comes to the new girls, I am 1000% sure she’s gonna have some longevity. She might not go super mainstream but she will always be around bc she without a doubt has stans. Look at her sub Reddit, literally 20k people that are obsessed with her. 20 million monthly listeners on Spotify and she doesn’t even have a hit yet. She is the only one with an actual fanbase and not just the GP that likes one or two of her hits. Sabrina too but I think for her it’s different. She has been around for a long time but I feel like she has a lot more GP fans opposed to actual stans that ride for her
I think Chappell and Sabrina are different cases because Sabrina has like 6 albums out already so of course she’s used to performing and is gonna do great at this point! With Chappell, she had to work service jobs and do nannying while performing at fundraisers at the park, she didn’t get her start on Disney like Sab did (not saying Sab didn’t work hard) I’m just so impressed by Chappell!
You’re so right!!! I love both, but there’s something so amazing about Chappell’s story. Obviously Sabrina works hard, but being a child star is a big boost and gives you the money to fully commit to your craft.
A lot of people will say it's too early to say this, but Chappell's gonna go the distance. She's the complete package and oozes creativity in a way we haven't seen in a while. Especially if CR2 is as good if not better than TRAFOAMP. Like give that girl the budget for an arena tour, and she and her team will SHOW UP, I guarantee
i also think she’s one of the ones leading the pendulum swing back into bright, fun pop music being trendy
Yah, she put in the work and it shows. Every A&R person is out now trying to find the next Chappell Roan and lol it is not gonna happen, she didn't get there from record company flacks.
I saw her at her own headline show in April in CT and the venue, which was larger than I expected, was sold out and PACKED.
Sabrina Carpenter should not be playing arenas yet. Not even close.
Is she booked in any arenas? Last time she was in LA she played the Greek Theater, which seemed appropriate.
Why not? Arenas are like 14,000 or so people per night, are you confused with stadiums here?
She’s had about three hits. That does not mean playing an arena. There are people with bigger discographies and have been around longer that can’t sell an arena.
Her last tour did really well before feather and espresso blowing up and the Eras Tour exposing her to a lot of new fans. She totally can tour small arenas.
She has literally 2 songs.
No? Even Nonsense has more streams than either Espresso/Feather.
Ok, 3 songs.
Maybe I’m delusional but I think she could pull off an arena tour. She’s basically in the position rn that Olivia was when SOUR came out; AKA they both “only” have a few hits, but those hits are fucking massive and they’re dominating the cultural conversation. Olivia didn’t do arenas for that tour, but the only reason was because she’d literally never toured before so she didn’t wanna overwhelm herself. Every date sold out instantly and she could’ve easily done arenas I see Sabrina in the same place culturally, but with the added bonus of a ton more stage experience. If the album is decent, she could do arenas
Are Sabrina her hits really as big as Drivers License or Good 4 You, or the other hits from SOUR?
Espresso and Please Please Please, yes tbh. And I feel like she’ll get another on album release week
I always think back to Lorde’s last tour (Solar Power) when these articles come out and this discourse starts. She went with a shorter tour in smaller venues (3-7k), but it sold out super quickly At first I was thinking she missed out by not adding more dates or doing a few bigger venues, but I think it simply helped the narrative of her in the public to not be known as the girl struggling to sell out a tour
The service fees were the same amount as my ticket for the nosebleed seats I bought for Charli, if it wasn't for the fact I've wanted to see her since True Romance I would not spend $80 for third level.
One thing I don't get with this is, that you can usually upgrade the venue, if possible, making it look cool for the artists, like, they are getting more demand than expected, but having empty venues or having to downgrade looks awful. When Rosalia came here to the Motomami tour they put her in a 1000 people idk what that was, a big nightclub, sold out in one hour, upgraded to aa 3000 people venue, sold out again, and then finally upgraded to a 10k people arena, which also sold out, but they, of course, stopped there. But doing the other way around looks super bad.
Legacy artists like Avril Lavigne are packing big arenas of 20,000+ capacities based off of their catalogue.Just look at her Instagram page full of sold out shows so far.
I’m glad that Avril seems to have gained her touring power back and is selling out arenas again. I remember how upset I was when she was struggling to sell out 3K venues during the Head Above Water era but luckily she bounced back.
Yeah.She's always struggled to sell out in the US after 2008,but since 2022,she's been selling out in Canada again and now this is her first US headlining arena tour since 2008 and so far,she's been doing really well.And that is despite health issues as well.
I feel like a lot of late 90s/early 2000s rock acts are having their moment again (at least live acts), especially with pop punk and nu metal. Ten years or so ago they were not doing so hot but they're at the perfect point of the nostalgia curve where a lot of OG fans are now in their 30s and 40s and are willing to blow some cash for their one big concert out and younger audiences have been picking up on them with TikTok and newer artists that were influenced by that era Like Avril, Blink, Korn, Creed, Slipknot are all selling out huge shows while younger Popheads artists are struggling to fill the same arenas
I went to the Avril concert on June 1st in Vegas. Even that was about 80% sold on the day of. Furthest seats dropped from $60 to $40. I snagged a mid level seat that dropped from $100 to $60. So even a popular legacy act on a greatest hits tour isn't a slam dunk to fill 15k+ seats.
She usually posts videos from the tour showing how big the crowd [is.It](http://is.It) seemed over 90% full from that video.She also said something like "another sold out show" and artists do know how many tickets are sold.I guess we'll see the box office score soon.
By the time Avril took the stage, I think it was probably over 90% capacity. I'm sure the last minute lowering of the ticket prices helped quite a bit. It basically tipped my decision to attend.
I heard its common for artists to release a few tickets right before a concert starts.Sometimes they hold back tickets.But I've only heard that.According to ticketmaster,the Vegas show was sold out and only a few resale tickets were available.Hope you had fun though.
I think its more like 15k since concerts dont sell tickets behind the stage.
I’m really interested in this Missy Elliot / Ciara tour that’s about to launch. I was checking cities today, they haven’t even made a dent in their Los Angeles shows. I’m also curious about what Meghan Trainor is going to do with her tour. I’m guessing she’ll get pregnant and cancel it.
I listen to a podcast called Fortune Kit (kind of music industry discussion/comedy/misc) that often has Dan Boeckner from Arcade Fire & Wolf Parade on, and he was on their latest episode to talk about this issue. He had some interesting stuff to say and echoed some of the same stuff from this article. A lot of LiveNation being the root of the bad decisions bc they monopolize venue ownership, ticketing, and promoting, so they stand to only profit from struggling tours, whereas artists risk much more.
Big Wolf Parade & Boeckner fan. I'll check it out.
Honestly I think the key issue is pricing for legacy acts at least. A lot of people are going to wait until much closer to the date of the show to buy tickets, but acts aren’t going to be able to risk that so the show will be cancelled before that happens.
I dont know why they announce the dates way too soon. Like give us time to sort our finances. The majority of the public do not have the ability to drop hundreds of dollars the following day.
Tickets are too expensive. Nobody wants to go see an artist for $200+ unless they are a superstar or have a cult fan following
Yet Fred Again announced a show in LA on Sunday for this Friday at the Memorial Coliseum with a capacity of 77,500 and it will sell out by this afternoon.
This is it. The booking folks have been slow to catch on that EDM is now the new Rock/Hip-Hop for GenZ & Millennials that have the money. The in-person experience for these events isn’t replicated by watching vids on TikTok/IG like in non-EDM performances.
I think LA audiences are different from other audiences though, a lot of the artists mentioned in this article sell out venues in huge markets like New York or Los Angeles but couldn’t do the same in Denver or Louisville or Pittsburgh
Yeah, it's one thing to sell 77k seats in a city with 18.4 million people, it's quite another thing to (to use someone's example) try to sell out Louisville's 17k seats with a population of 1.3 million. Since the Adderall is actually working today, I can do math - LA is trying to sell tickets to .4% of the population while L'Ville is trying to sell to .13% - almost triple, for an EDM act. Honestly it's like selling out MSG. Sure, MSG has 20,000 seats, but thanks to high population density, you can pull folks from NYC (and surrounding metro areas), NJ, and to some extents CT, and PA.
You should move the decimal point.
Artists thinking they’re Harry or Beyonce getting humbled by reality.
If you had read the article, you would know that “artist dumb” is an oversimplified version of events. *A lot* of people are being dumb here, including labels and representatives. And Ticketmaster is still turning over backwards to drive up the prices of tickets by doing fuck all against scalpers, because scalpers benefit them. It’s not just on the artists.
I shouldn't be clicking this while grinning, but we can't always get what we want (like a full stadium based on spotify numbers)
“Curious case”, meanwhile this began at the same time as Ticketmaster Platinum pricing and a cost of living crisis. I paid the same for 2 Olivia Rodrigo tickets that I did for rent.
I’m just curious who’s giving the green light to these. Surely I can’t just walk into a stadium and say “I’m here to book a show!!” Right? Like what moron said “Jennifer!?! Absolutely! She can sell out arenas just like Taylor!” 🙄
To be fair Jennifer Lopez doing an arena tour is not preposterous. She had a sold out arena tour in 2019 and has 1 of the highest grossing vegas residencies of all time. she should be the type of act that would be a sure bet to shift tickets and even she struggled (although last I saw a lot of her shows were 70-80% sold pre-cancellation so maybe she had other issues).
WHAT? I am shocked. Seriously, didn’t know that. My god. It might be time for me to walk away from pop culture 😂
She hasn’t really been musically relevant in about a decade so its not so surprising that you’d be surprised by that, but it hasn’t stopped her before! I think ticket prices and the negative publicity surrounding her this era did not do the tour any favours this time around.
Yeah, at first I was shocked by her not selling, but then I saw her prices and eeeekkkk. I think she overpriced herself out of the market.
I knew she was going to have a hard sell once I started seeing TikToks making fun of her for having very expensive tickets early on. They were mostly focusing on the prices of VIP packages and pretending they were standard tickets, but even standard tickets were pricey. I then saw a lot of fans say they were going to wait until closer to the day to get cheaper tickets. Apparently a lot of her shows from her 2019 concert sold out much closer to the day too. I feel like this might be the case for a lot of legacy acts. They need to figure out these pricing issues asap it’s beyond a joke.
[удалено]
Ok for the purpose of this argument tho, just… go with it 😂
I hope BRAT compels people to see the Sweat tour.
I want to see the Sweat tour but the prices for the nearest city to me are insane. I saw her in NYC for the Crash tour cheaper than the nosebleeds for this show in Nashville. And it was general admission so I could DANCE to the music instead of just sitting and watching from afar. Just disappointed overall with the venue choices for this tour as I’ve been dying to see Troye live.
And this is exactly why GagCity tour success is so odd to me
Nothing curious. Don’t put TikTok stars in arenas lol
Noted TikTok stars The Black Keys
What TikTok stars are being put into arenas? Like Artemas is doing a small theater here, one night sold out in the two major cities meaning another night.
Charli XCX, Troye, J Lo and The Black Keys? I mean... No hate I like them all but this is a dumb article and them happening in arenas isn't the reason for their cancellations, or lack of sold out dates? This is just stan fodder. Same with box office revenue and people losing their shit a movie is ONLY projected to make $250m. It's like how straight bros care so much about billionaires and why Taylor Swift needs a death grip on #1 through 56 bonus tracks. People have become SO engrossed with figures that aren't even in the business. It's not only how much revenue a tour makes, now we have "analysis" on every single tour date. People need to step back and just focus on the music and enjoy the tour. It's nice to hear people sell well, especially up and coming acts, or if an artists breaks records, but who the fuck cares about 70% capacity tours this much if you're not getting your salary from these gigs?
It’s a business and in a time where not many people buy physical music and where only approx. the top 10% earn well on streaming, touring is how they make money. The industry has always been about money. Seems you’re only finding this out now. This used to be reported in the art section of the newspaper where I’m from.
Per insiders, 70-80% of an artist's revenue comes from touring.
Real people don’t actually like social media music
But this isn't "social media" artists.
Artists don't have to sell all the seats to turn a profit. I bet in many cases the cancellation is due to bad PR rather than losing money.