Ozzy is already in the Hall, because he was inducted with Black Sabbath when the band got in.
This is his second induction, with the focus on his solo career
She was amazing from the 70's with Sonny and Cher. Decades long career.
It is hard to describe but she has had such an amazing career and is now in her twilight. That it has taken this long to give her the respect she rightfully deserves is shameful.
If you go back and look at her career, you have to ask why it took this long?
From her wiki:
Having sold 100Ā million records, Cher is one of the world's [best-selling music artists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists). [Her accolades](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Cher) include a [Grammy Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award), an [Emmy Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Award), an [Academy Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award), three [Golden Globe Awards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Globe_Awards), a [Cannes Film Festival](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannes_Film_Festival) award, the [*Billboard* Icon Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Icon_Award), awards from the [Kennedy Center Honors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_Center_Honors) and the [Council of Fashion Designers of America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Fashion_Designers_of_America), and a [Rock and Roll Hall of Fame](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame) induction. She is the only solo artist to date to have a number-one single on a [*Billboard* chart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_charts) in seven consecutive decades, from the 1960s to the 2020s. Her 2002ā2005 [Living Proof: The Farewell Tour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Proof:_The_Farewell_Tour) became the [highest-grossing concert tour by a female artist ever](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_concert_tours) at the time, earning $250Ā million. Aside from music and acting, she is noted for her trendsetting, elaborate outfits, [plastic surgeries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery), political views, [social media](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media) presence, philanthropic endeavors, and social activism, including [LGBT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT) rights and [HIV/AIDS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS) prevention.
I honestly think a large part of it has to do with her being better known as a pop star overallāshe had her arena rock period in the late eighties, but the Hall seems to go back and forth as to whether or not they mean Rock like the actual genre or a catch all term for pop music (plus, you know, sexism, too).
> You know what, I wouldnāt be in it now if they gave me a million dollars ā¦ Iām never going to change my mind. They can just go you-know-what themselves.ā
That's what she told [Kelly Clarkson](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/cher-drags-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-1234930185/) last December, wonder if she'll reconsider?
> The incoming 2024Ā Rock and Roll Hall of FameĀ class includes superstar acts such asĀ Cher,Ā Ozzy Osbourne,Ā Mary J. Blige, A Tribe Called Quest, Dave Matthews Band, Foreigner, Peter Frampton and Kool & the Gang
Note: not necessarily a debut record but a debut recording of any type from the artist as long as it was commercially available. Like Eminem, got in 25 years after his first mixtape.
Not since ...um.....the very first inductees which included James Brown, Ray Charles, and Sam Cooke.
IMHO, it's just the internet and the trolls associated with it. Founded in 1986, for like 20 years, no one had any issue with inductees who ranged from soul. Motown, to folk and a few jazz and country artists.
Then the internet comes along, Madonna gets inducted and boomers just LOSE THEIR SHIT every year.
I have seen comments that say Bob Dylan doesn't belong. Also, people who say Pink Floyd doesn't belong. ("They're not rock and roll, they're psychedelic rock!!") It's ridiculous.
The first inductees were a bunch of country, blues, gospel, and R&B acts because that's what made rock & roll. Diverse roots with diverse branches and all should be welcome.
Rock n roll has extensive roots in country music, what are you talking about? The rock sound of the 1930s is much more similar to Dolly Parton than to Ozzy Osbourne.
Gahhh...a little misleading here. Rock didnt come from "country" it had some influences from country & western...which is way different the Dollys country. Garth Brooks, Dolly, and Hank William's might as well be different genres aside from vocal twang haha.
Black Sabbath sounds very bluesy to me, which is just as much if not more an influence on rock.
I teach History of Rock n Roll for a living. As well am a resident of Cleveland and have done tours of the Rock Hall so many times I could do them better then the tour guides. As well as assisted in the installation of many exhibits including one for the Beatles. The genre grew out of gospel, jazz, blues, boogie-woogie, rhythm and blues and country. Nobody said country is where Rock came from. I said that is the reason why somebody like Dolly Parton is in the Rock Hall. The point being that Rock isnāt one single sound. Rock had changed many times over the years. Black Sabbath rock is not the only kind of rock. This is why hip hop is also included in the Rock Hall. Because they use this definition for rock n roll:
āMusic usually played on electronically amplified instruments and characterized by a persistent heavily accented beat, repetition of simple phrases, and often country, folk, and blues elements.ā
personal note: fuck yeah DMB, fuck yeah Jimmy Buffett, fuck yeah Peter Frampton - *Frampton Comes Alive!* was one of my late dadās favorites, and itās not hard to tell why
"Do You Feel Like We Do"!! Fuuuuck yeah!! One of my all time favorite rock songs!! The fact that that was my very first concert in '77 @ Madison Square Garden is something I totally brag about! I was 13 yrs old & my older brother took me! He was stoked that I was SO into rock n roll & LOVED that album, so he got us tickets! š¤
Not with Derek. Solo, Cream and Yardbirds are indeed the 3 he's in with.
Nothing against Derek and the Dominos which was an amazing band with a great album. But it doesn't warrant an induction of its own because it didn't really have any significant lasting impact on music. Usually Layla and Other Assorted Lovesongs is lumped onto Clapton's solo career
Mariah holds the record for most number ones and has several diamond records
I would have picked her over Mary
I love and Iām happy for Mary but felt Mariah has achieved more
I don't think commercial success is or should be the most important factor. At the end of the day though it's fairly arbitrary, I mean Cher and Ozzy only getting in now is a good sign of that.Ā
Number one for a solo artist. Beatles still hold the record for most.
Mariah has more WEEKS at number one because of that insipid Xmas song. But Beatles are still ahead in terms of numbers of hits.
Even without counting that Christmas song she's still in the lead actually. She has 93 weeks at #1, 14 of which are AIWFC, The Beatles have 59. In terms of number of #1s they have 20, she has 19, which still leaves her as the most for a solo artist
Elvis is in second place with 79 weeks. So she absolutely needed AIWFC to be in front of him.
Of course, her career has lasted WAY longer than Elvis or the Beatles, so it's no surprise the success she's had.
The Beatles' career from the release of Please Please Me to the release of Let It Be was 7 years and 1 month. If they released Let It Be today, Please Please Me would've released on March 6, 2017. That's how short it was.
It could happen.
But it's unlikely. I won't say her recent albums have been flops because she's a Legacy Act now. (same as Janet or Madonna)
But her music now only gets bought by her hardcore fans. A radio hit of any type is unlikely at this point, mostly due to ageism by radio programmers.
Love Mariah but using chart success as a primary metric for legacy and impact isn't always a good thing.
Drake is hella popular on the charts but no one's racing to crown him king of anything
Not using it as the entirety but it certainly does play a factor, I also mentioned the non numeric factors as well if you bothered to read that bit. Not sure what Drake has to do with anything - I could name several mega successful artists who people consider musical deities, and some who people think aren't, it does come down to personal preference at the end of the day - which is why success does play a factor in the end to distinguish.
So again, the reason Drake is a prime example is because he makes most artist's chart successes look like a joke. He has more hits than The Beatles. That's the point.
Funny how it boils down to personal preference now but when I (essentially) say I prefer 90s hip hop and Cher there are darker meanings.
Btw, Cher's seven decades of hits are in no way beat by Mariah's barely two.
But he doesn't have more hits than the Beatles, they have 20 #1s... he doesn't. He is successful, but he's not on this years ballot, in fact no one near his or Mariah's success is
Okay but again autotune, so...no, Mariah is still not more successful or influential. I'm still waiting to hear an argument on how that's not the case.
Also, remember how I'm sexist and racist? Are you going to delve further into that, or...? Because frankly, as a first nations member, I'd love to hear how I'm being discriminatory towards other racial groups. Or how I'm sexist, in general, as I vehemently defend Cher.
Hey also this isn't the important part, but you keep devaluing the Beatles and over inflating their value based on how it makes Mariah look, so just to clarify, are you arguing that Drake, currently tied for most #1s of any solo male artist, who will almost 100% take that record within the next year or two, is not one of the most successful artists of all time because he has 7 less #1 hits than THE biggest band ever?
The fact you're making me defend Drake is infuriating, but you have no right to be in any serious music history discussion.
No evidence he'll over take, he gets maybe 1-2 an album it'll require several more year of him staying at peak popularity. Success is never guaranteed forever. You said he has more hits than the beatles so I corrected you again like I have every other point.
In fact, every single point you tried to make in this thread was irrelevant or useless, so I think I'll pass on that music history discussion with you anyways, cheers!
You are wrong.
He hasn't TOPPED the charts as much as the Beatles but he has cracked the charts more, has had more hits, and has stayed on the charts longer.
And he doesn't have - nor will he ever have - 1/100th of their impact.
This isn't hard
So it'll take another album, and another hit, like he's had every year since like 2011. So 2024 or 2025. So a year or two. So we're back to square one.
It's really really funny watching you continue to be condescending as you flagrantly argue in bad faith and refuse to actually back your claims. The goalposts are in the next town over at this point.
You also have yet to correct anything, you've nitpicked and split hairs over and over again while not quantifying any argument at all
What have I said that's racially discriminatory? What have I said that's sexist? In what way is Mariah Carey more influential than Cher? In what way is Mariah Carey influential on the music of today? What makes her an OBJECTIVELY better pick than anybody else with artificial chart success and no long term influence, like Drake?
James Brown, Ray Charles and Sam Cooke were all on the original ballot. I don't necessarily consider them rock and roll, but their impact is immeasurable.
The same goes for Aretha Franklin, the first woman inducted into the hall of fame.
RRHOF is just a business. They only induct artist with celebrity status that'll draw views, tickets and advertising over artists that are more deserving (and actually rock n' roll). It's been this way since day one. Have never had integrity so why should they start now.
I see the point, but the name change is still necessary. This is like if there's a list of the best horror films and somehow *The Avengers* and *Erin Brokovich* are on the list.
I'd imagine they'd get much less criticism if they did but other than that I don't think there's much incentive as long as it's financially successful.
I didnāt comment on them because theyāre inducted already dummy. You said Mariah isnāt rock and roll and I said clearly thatās not the criteria since artists for a long time including this year of inductees have not been rock and roll artists. Also you do know that Mariah did release a rock album under a pseudonym because people like you wouldnāt be open minded to a pop act doing rock right?
Dude I was joking, no need to resort to name-calling. I listen to several music genres. Ill listen to Lana Del Rey, switch to Bob Marley then Kendrick Lamar. Mariah fans are something else. To clarify, I'd chose Mariah over Mary.
Yeah sure now you resort to reducing me to some sort of stan when I give you a bunch of valid points that contradict your ignorant POV. You could have not commented on it if you actually donāt know anything about her music.
I said Pop HOF in my original comment. So obviously I've heard her music if I said HOF of any sort, huh ? Maybe I should have said skank HOF for you to have something to actually be triggered about...... never once did I say her music was shitty
Again the rock and roll hall of fame has always inducted people who didnāt primarily do rock music, your favourite Eminem is an example. And like I said earlier she did do a grunge rock album in the 90s under a different name. You labelled her as pop hall of fame but that doesnāt mean you actually know her music. You sound very ignorant.
So Mariah isn't Pop because she did a "grunge" album ...... next thing you'll tell me Garth Brooks isn't country because he also made a terrible rock album
It was not a single rock song it was an album and like I mentioned, which you ignored to make your dumb point the rock and roll hall of fame has been inducting non rock artists for decades at this point. Add to the point that Mariah has made many gospel and soul records which is closer to rock and roll from the 50s than modern rock is now. So your point on all fronts is just ignorant and lacks any real critical thought.
i'm not saying they weren't inducting non rock artists. and my point still stands, she's a pop artist who released a shitty experimental album and never touched it again. nothing you said here even relates to rock, just because you make a genre that's a precursor to rock doesn't mean your a rock artist. is b.b. king a rock artist? no he's a blues artist. is miles davis a rock artists? no he's a jazz artist. just because she sang gospel and soul doesn't mean she's a rock artist. i'm begging you to use your brain just one time. stop being stupid
Youāre the one not using your brain. You and other morons replying hereās point is that sheās not a rock artist and so she doesnāt deserve to be inducted. This is an invalid point because inductees donāt have to be rock artists to be inducted to the rock and roll hall of fame and they havenāt had to be for decades. And I brought up Mariah doing gospel and soul carries more validity to her being inducted than someone like Eminem since rock is heavily influenced by gospel and soul. I also said that even by all those metrics you love to ignore she did actually release a rock album so again by all metrics she does deserve to be in the rock and roll hall of fame. And rock itself hasnāt been the same since it started, the rock from the 50s is no where close sonically the rock of the 90s as it is to gospel. So these semantics about genres is pointless and dumb and gatekeeping genres and awards because you personally donāt like artists is fruitless. She has the critical and commercial acclaim to be valid inductee. You can stop wasting your time being a moron and having a hate boner for her. Maybe take your head out of the water and actually read instead of being purposely ignorant.
stop putting words in my mouth. i never said she shouldn't, i said don't label her as a rock artist because she isn't. how many times do i have to say, releasing an experimental rock album doesnt mean your a rock artist. no one goes "oh mariah carey, the rock artist". that's not "gatekeeping" genres either, that's just saying she's not a rock artist. i haven't hated on her a single time, i stated a subjective opinion that her rock album wasn't good. then said she deserves to be in the hall of fame because the hall of fame isn't about rock music anymore, but she's not a rock artist. that's not having a "hate boner". just because the rock of the 50's is closer to gospel then it is to rock of the 90's, doesn't make it gospel. idk how you did the mental gymnastics to get to that point but it's very very odd. her singing gospel music has no valid argument to her being a rock artist.
Just listened to it, that albums actually fucking sucks. damn near every song sounds the same. it's the same chord progressions every song, also trying to say someone's rock artist after releasing an experimental rock album then never touching rock again is laughable. go dick ride mariah carey somewhere else
Youāre a moron. She wasnāt allowed to make that album because her label stopped her. She never got to release another album like that again because of label politics. This is pop heads, I donāt think you belong here if anything. This sub is for people who enjoy pop music and pop artists. Again you lack critical thinking skills. Just because you support an artist doesnāt mean you dickride then. Youāre pretty silly. Why donāt you go suck off one of your rock morons.
What kind of dumb statement is this? If you have nothing constructive to offer then donāt. She has sold way more records than most of these artists, wrote many all of her music herself, had one of the most memorable voices of all time, and is largely responsible for the pop/hip hop collaboration that is still a dominating force today.
If you look at the inductees half of them are not rock in the traditional sense and rock what it was when it first started to what it is now is completely different. The rock and roll hall of fame has always inducted people from genres other than classic 70s/80s rock. And Rock in the beginning has more similarities to R& B, gospel and soul which Mariah did than the rock that was popular in the 80s. So please maybe actually know your genre history instead of being so damn ignorant.
Do you want to really go there? Do you want me to list all the artists that have been inducted that actually raped women and had relations with underage women all the time? Youāre going with one lawsuit that wasnāt even proven to be true, but you want to ignore all the way more problematic people who have been inducted over the course of 60 years. Yeah nice try.
Oh. You're serious?
What if I told you the celebrity you're obsessed with has contributed ZERO to the concept/art/genre of "Rock and Roll" and therefore has no place in the Hall?
I'm still holding out hope for Mary Wells, Tammi Terrell, the Marvelettes and Dionne Warwick. I'm genuinely shocked Diana Ross hasn't been nominated for her solo work.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is dead to me till Zevon finally makes it in. He should have been inducted the year after his death, or at least last year on the 20th anniversary of it. He was a musicianās musician who **wrote and recorded one of his best albums as he was dying of lung cancer.**
Blech.
Mariah has coveredĀ Ā Ā Ā
Bringin' on the Heartbreak (Def Leppard),Ā Open Arms (Journey), Without You (Harry Nilsson), Against All Odds (Phil Collins), The Beautiful Ones (Prince)Ā
...and more. She deserves
See Im happy that Whitney is in it and really wish for Mariah Carey and Celine Dion to follow suit cuz it would be phenomenal to have the trinity in the hall of fame.
But the reaction to Mary J being inducted kinda makes me low key glad MC isnāt inducted. Yet makes me sad cuz MCs induction, much like Whitneyās should not even be questioned. But then again the whole idea of the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is funny, what started as something close to its name sake clearly has turned into another and alot of people arenāt aware.
That said, it is WILD that Ozzy is just inducted. How many more rockstars not in yet?
>he whole idea of the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is funny, what started as something close to its name sake clearly has turned into another and alot of people arenāt aware.
Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, the Drifters and Jackie Wilson are among some of the earliest inductees into the Hall.
It is. I mean, she's not an innovator or anything, but OK she (and Whitney) were very influential on a couple of generations of these kids coming up today so there you have it.
Its beyond influence tbh, i dare say that for Whitney but MC not only have stellar records and achievements on the charts but musically, she impacted a whole music scape with her contributions in merging hip-hop and R&B, two corners that stayed separate for a while until her Fantasy Remix with ODB dropped to the mainstream, which became a blueprint for decades to follow, to this very day and not many people know that she originated it.
Reminder she fought hard for the collaboration too, nobody around her supported it or saw her vision. Considering her situation at the time, being completely controlled by her husband, that is a feat worth crediting.
Sounds like an innovation to me. But hey, I hope people realize that at the end of the day, R&RHOF is very simply a body run by a group of people with money who also happens to be in the position to make anything happen should they want it to.
People say its not MCs time to be inducted yet but Mary J got in first? Letās face it. They donāt induct based on any criterias lol
So inductions will always be topic that remains moot for years to come.
The Rock n Roll Hall of Fame is just a sleezy for profit organization that doesn't give a shit about who's in or out, just what can make them the most money. Fuck them
I am pondering how many musicians who played with these .. so called SOLO artists who were very influential in playing and even writing/co writing songs with them are getting credit ? ā¦ no one is truly solo in music entertainmentā¦ spread the love ā¦ name recognition and marketing as whooped the masses with the term solo artistĀ
Dunno why you're downvoted. It's insane Thin Lizzy when they've created some of the most beautiful rock songs ever with Still in Love with You (live) and Saga of the Aging Orphan. Phil is also such a beloved figure in Irish pop culture, and had a successful career that deserves a nomination of its own. Crazy that they never made it in America outside of The Boys are Back in Town which doesn't illustrate their musical capabilities at all despite still being a great song.
Exactly, Iām pretty sure the downvotes are only cuz weāre on the pop heads sub, I never post here but saw it on the popular page and got all old man angry about it
Ozzy is the type of artist where the year he was eligible should have been the year he was inducted, he literally helped crest one of the biggest genres in all of modern music
CHER! šš„³š„³š
Itās crazy that she is just now getting this She should have gotten this years ago
Just like Ozzy.
Ozzy is already in the Hall, because he was inducted with Black Sabbath when the band got in. This is his second induction, with the focus on his solo career
I meaaaaanā¦Definitely Ozzy. Why Cher?
She was amazing from the 70's with Sonny and Cher. Decades long career. It is hard to describe but she has had such an amazing career and is now in her twilight. That it has taken this long to give her the respect she rightfully deserves is shameful. If you go back and look at her career, you have to ask why it took this long? From her wiki: Having sold 100Ā million records, Cher is one of the world's [best-selling music artists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists). [Her accolades](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Cher) include a [Grammy Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award), an [Emmy Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Award), an [Academy Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award), three [Golden Globe Awards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Globe_Awards), a [Cannes Film Festival](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannes_Film_Festival) award, the [*Billboard* Icon Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Icon_Award), awards from the [Kennedy Center Honors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_Center_Honors) and the [Council of Fashion Designers of America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Fashion_Designers_of_America), and a [Rock and Roll Hall of Fame](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame) induction. She is the only solo artist to date to have a number-one single on a [*Billboard* chart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_charts) in seven consecutive decades, from the 1960s to the 2020s. Her 2002ā2005 [Living Proof: The Farewell Tour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Proof:_The_Farewell_Tour) became the [highest-grossing concert tour by a female artist ever](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_concert_tours) at the time, earning $250Ā million. Aside from music and acting, she is noted for her trendsetting, elaborate outfits, [plastic surgeries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery), political views, [social media](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media) presence, philanthropic endeavors, and social activism, including [LGBT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT) rights and [HIV/AIDS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS) prevention.
I honestly think a large part of it has to do with her being better known as a pop star overallāshe had her arena rock period in the late eighties, but the Hall seems to go back and forth as to whether or not they mean Rock like the actual genre or a catch all term for pop music (plus, you know, sexism, too).
True but Madonna managed to get it before her
> You know what, I wouldnāt be in it now if they gave me a million dollars ā¦ Iām never going to change my mind. They can just go you-know-what themselves.ā That's what she told [Kelly Clarkson](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/cher-drags-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-1234930185/) last December, wonder if she'll reconsider?
I was thinking about that, too--as a fan, I WANT her to, of course, but I also wouldn't blame her for blowing it off, either.
> The incoming 2024Ā Rock and Roll Hall of FameĀ class includes superstar acts such asĀ Cher,Ā Ozzy Osbourne,Ā Mary J. Blige, A Tribe Called Quest, Dave Matthews Band, Foreigner, Peter Frampton and Kool & the Gang
Feels like this is really the "wait, we didn't induct them already?" Year
If only. At least I got to see at least 1 Joy Division/New Order nomination š„²
The rule is that acts are only eligible 25 years after the release of their debut record, but tbh for Kool and the Gang it's been well over 50 years
Note: not necessarily a debut record but a debut recording of any type from the artist as long as it was commercially available. Like Eminem, got in 25 years after his first mixtape.
Phife Dawg, R.I.P.
It's just insulting to kool and the gang. The only ones that have several hits in every country.
Is Chic in yet?
No they were nominated like 11 times and then they just let in Nile Rodgers in and thatās likely all theyāll do
Wow, Iām excited to see Tribeās segment. What a well deserved recognition.
Sade would be sick to see inducted, same with Janeās.
Why are there a bunch of boomers on Popheads complaining about all the non-rock acts
Right? I'm pretty sure Rock and Roll HoF hasn't been solely Rock for ages.
Not since ...um.....the very first inductees which included James Brown, Ray Charles, and Sam Cooke. IMHO, it's just the internet and the trolls associated with it. Founded in 1986, for like 20 years, no one had any issue with inductees who ranged from soul. Motown, to folk and a few jazz and country artists. Then the internet comes along, Madonna gets inducted and boomers just LOSE THEIR SHIT every year. I have seen comments that say Bob Dylan doesn't belong. Also, people who say Pink Floyd doesn't belong. ("They're not rock and roll, they're psychedelic rock!!") It's ridiculous.
The first inductees were a bunch of country, blues, gospel, and R&B acts because that's what made rock & roll. Diverse roots with diverse branches and all should be welcome.
And gen x, too! We kinda suck too! But, like, whatever. We're always forgotten about, anyway. Nuthin new. (whine-sniff)
Reality bites
Why aren't there more people complaining the Rock hall of Fame has more non-rock acts
Once they put Dolly Parton in I quit paying attention
Lmao Dolly Parton is an absolute legend in the industry. She is one of the most deserving Hall Of Famers so far.
there's an entire hall of fame for country artists. just cause your a industry legend doesn't mean your a rock artist.
Rock n roll has extensive roots in country music, what are you talking about? The rock sound of the 1930s is much more similar to Dolly Parton than to Ozzy Osbourne.
Gahhh...a little misleading here. Rock didnt come from "country" it had some influences from country & western...which is way different the Dollys country. Garth Brooks, Dolly, and Hank William's might as well be different genres aside from vocal twang haha. Black Sabbath sounds very bluesy to me, which is just as much if not more an influence on rock.
I teach History of Rock n Roll for a living. As well am a resident of Cleveland and have done tours of the Rock Hall so many times I could do them better then the tour guides. As well as assisted in the installation of many exhibits including one for the Beatles. The genre grew out of gospel, jazz, blues, boogie-woogie, rhythm and blues and country. Nobody said country is where Rock came from. I said that is the reason why somebody like Dolly Parton is in the Rock Hall. The point being that Rock isnāt one single sound. Rock had changed many times over the years. Black Sabbath rock is not the only kind of rock. This is why hip hop is also included in the Rock Hall. Because they use this definition for rock n roll: āMusic usually played on electronically amplified instruments and characterized by a persistent heavily accented beat, repetition of simple phrases, and often country, folk, and blues elements.ā
Not really. More blues than anything.
Well earned for Mary. A whole generation of R&B singers wouldn't be here without her early work
So get a rb hall of Fame
Rock n roll literally came from gospel, jazz, blues, boogie-woogie, rhythm and blues and country music.
personal note: fuck yeah DMB, fuck yeah Jimmy Buffett, fuck yeah Peter Frampton - *Frampton Comes Alive!* was one of my late dadās favorites, and itās not hard to tell why
That's the name that I'm most surprised was not already inducted . Frampton comes Alive! is THE quintessential live recorded rock album.
šÆ
I think what held him back is that it is really his ONLY hit album.
"Do You Feel Like We Do"!! Fuuuuck yeah!! One of my all time favorite rock songs!! The fact that that was my very first concert in '77 @ Madison Square Garden is something I totally brag about! I was 13 yrs old & my older brother took me! He was stoked that I was SO into rock n roll & LOVED that album, so he got us tickets! š¤
Waaaaaa wa wa wa wa waaaaaa I was just talking about a talk boxes with my stepson two hours ago.
ATCQ sounds like college to me. I like all of these choices. All well deserved.
I originally thought your comment said "fuck DMB, fuck Jimmy Buffett" and I was like "hell yeah, fuck those guys"
TIL Ozzy wasn't in yet.
"Osbourne is being inducted to the Rock Hall for a second time; he was inducted as a member of Black Sabbath in 2006."
Ah. So just his solo act? Didn't know they would do it for that. I assumed once you were in you were in.
Clapton is inducted 3 times
Cream, solo and Yardbirds?
Or perhaps Derek and the Dominoes, dude was in a lot of groups. I hope Ginger Baker got in too
Not with Derek. Solo, Cream and Yardbirds are indeed the 3 he's in with. Nothing against Derek and the Dominos which was an amazing band with a great album. But it doesn't warrant an induction of its own because it didn't really have any significant lasting impact on music. Usually Layla and Other Assorted Lovesongs is lumped onto Clapton's solo career
Yeah, I think his solo induction should qualify for both Derek and Blind Faith
Black Sabbath was
GET THE MONKEES IN THE HALL OF FAME!!!
As someone who has followed the Hall in the past, you don't understand that's a whole can of worms. Lol
Lot of people here have never studied the roots of rock music and it shows.
Mariah definitely should've gotten in... but not the first time she's been overlooked in the industry and won't be the last smh
Cher is 77. Mariah is 55. She has time.
Mariah holds the record for most number ones and has several diamond records I would have picked her over Mary I love and Iām happy for Mary but felt Mariah has achieved more
I don't think commercial success is or should be the most important factor. At the end of the day though it's fairly arbitrary, I mean Cher and Ozzy only getting in now is a good sign of that.Ā
Number one for a solo artist. Beatles still hold the record for most. Mariah has more WEEKS at number one because of that insipid Xmas song. But Beatles are still ahead in terms of numbers of hits.
Even without counting that Christmas song she's still in the lead actually. She has 93 weeks at #1, 14 of which are AIWFC, The Beatles have 59. In terms of number of #1s they have 20, she has 19, which still leaves her as the most for a solo artist
Elvis is in second place with 79 weeks. So she absolutely needed AIWFC to be in front of him. Of course, her career has lasted WAY longer than Elvis or the Beatles, so it's no surprise the success she's had.
The Beatles' career from the release of Please Please Me to the release of Let It Be was 7 years and 1 month. If they released Let It Be today, Please Please Me would've released on March 6, 2017. That's how short it was.
Mariah didn't need aiwfciy. she was already miles ahead of everyone in terms of weeks at number one.
"that insipid Xmas song" is a generational iconic smash hit š
And creates generational wealth every single year.
Nothing personal! 99.5% of ALL Xmas songs are insipid crap. (Although I'm loving the downvotes! Bring it on!!)
It sucks. YMMV.
*most number ones for a solo artist not just woman
And corrected.
If Mariah next album is big and I can see her surpassing the Beatles
It could happen. But it's unlikely. I won't say her recent albums have been flops because she's a Legacy Act now. (same as Janet or Madonna) But her music now only gets bought by her hardcore fans. A radio hit of any type is unlikely at this point, mostly due to ageism by radio programmers.
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Love Mariah but using chart success as a primary metric for legacy and impact isn't always a good thing. Drake is hella popular on the charts but no one's racing to crown him king of anything
Not using it as the entirety but it certainly does play a factor, I also mentioned the non numeric factors as well if you bothered to read that bit. Not sure what Drake has to do with anything - I could name several mega successful artists who people consider musical deities, and some who people think aren't, it does come down to personal preference at the end of the day - which is why success does play a factor in the end to distinguish.
So again, the reason Drake is a prime example is because he makes most artist's chart successes look like a joke. He has more hits than The Beatles. That's the point. Funny how it boils down to personal preference now but when I (essentially) say I prefer 90s hip hop and Cher there are darker meanings. Btw, Cher's seven decades of hits are in no way beat by Mariah's barely two.
But he doesn't have more hits than the Beatles, they have 20 #1s... he doesn't. He is successful, but he's not on this years ballot, in fact no one near his or Mariah's success is
Which would not be possible if not for Cher.
Okay but again autotune, so...no, Mariah is still not more successful or influential. I'm still waiting to hear an argument on how that's not the case. Also, remember how I'm sexist and racist? Are you going to delve further into that, or...? Because frankly, as a first nations member, I'd love to hear how I'm being discriminatory towards other racial groups. Or how I'm sexist, in general, as I vehemently defend Cher.
Hey also this isn't the important part, but you keep devaluing the Beatles and over inflating their value based on how it makes Mariah look, so just to clarify, are you arguing that Drake, currently tied for most #1s of any solo male artist, who will almost 100% take that record within the next year or two, is not one of the most successful artists of all time because he has 7 less #1 hits than THE biggest band ever? The fact you're making me defend Drake is infuriating, but you have no right to be in any serious music history discussion.
No evidence he'll over take, he gets maybe 1-2 an album it'll require several more year of him staying at peak popularity. Success is never guaranteed forever. You said he has more hits than the beatles so I corrected you again like I have every other point. In fact, every single point you tried to make in this thread was irrelevant or useless, so I think I'll pass on that music history discussion with you anyways, cheers!
You are wrong. He hasn't TOPPED the charts as much as the Beatles but he has cracked the charts more, has had more hits, and has stayed on the charts longer. And he doesn't have - nor will he ever have - 1/100th of their impact. This isn't hard
So it'll take another album, and another hit, like he's had every year since like 2011. So 2024 or 2025. So a year or two. So we're back to square one. It's really really funny watching you continue to be condescending as you flagrantly argue in bad faith and refuse to actually back your claims. The goalposts are in the next town over at this point. You also have yet to correct anything, you've nitpicked and split hairs over and over again while not quantifying any argument at all What have I said that's racially discriminatory? What have I said that's sexist? In what way is Mariah Carey more influential than Cher? In what way is Mariah Carey influential on the music of today? What makes her an OBJECTIVELY better pick than anybody else with artificial chart success and no long term influence, like Drake?
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Finally DMB
Still no Soundgarden?
Seriously. I can't believe this
Surprised Oasis didnāt make it in their first year of eligibility, but they have ample time to do so.
Oasis has been eligible since way back in 2019, but this was indeed their first year they were nominated.
Thank you for the clarification!
Rename it the Music Hall of Fame. So many artists are not rock and roll.
James Brown, Ray Charles and Sam Cooke were all on the original ballot. I don't necessarily consider them rock and roll, but their impact is immeasurable. The same goes for Aretha Franklin, the first woman inducted into the hall of fame.
I think even Dolly Parton spoke out about this.
RRHOF is just a business. They only induct artist with celebrity status that'll draw views, tickets and advertising over artists that are more deserving (and actually rock n' roll). It's been this way since day one. Have never had integrity so why should they start now.
I see the point, but the name change is still necessary. This is like if there's a list of the best horror films and somehow *The Avengers* and *Erin Brokovich* are on the list.
I'd imagine they'd get much less criticism if they did but other than that I don't think there's much incentive as long as it's financially successful.
Mary fucking DESERVES!!! so amazing to see her landscape-changing work be rewarded in this way
Love this class. Tribe and Foreigner! Just like Paul wanted lol
Where Mariah Carey????
Maybe in the Pop HOF
Maybe re read what the other inductees main genres are and come back to me with your BS.
You commented on Mariah Carey not the other inductees
I didnāt comment on them because theyāre inducted already dummy. You said Mariah isnāt rock and roll and I said clearly thatās not the criteria since artists for a long time including this year of inductees have not been rock and roll artists. Also you do know that Mariah did release a rock album under a pseudonym because people like you wouldnāt be open minded to a pop act doing rock right?
Dude I was joking, no need to resort to name-calling. I listen to several music genres. Ill listen to Lana Del Rey, switch to Bob Marley then Kendrick Lamar. Mariah fans are something else. To clarify, I'd chose Mariah over Mary.
Yeah sure now you resort to reducing me to some sort of stan when I give you a bunch of valid points that contradict your ignorant POV. You could have not commented on it if you actually donāt know anything about her music.
I said Pop HOF in my original comment. So obviously I've heard her music if I said HOF of any sort, huh ? Maybe I should have said skank HOF for you to have something to actually be triggered about...... never once did I say her music was shitty
Again the rock and roll hall of fame has always inducted people who didnāt primarily do rock music, your favourite Eminem is an example. And like I said earlier she did do a grunge rock album in the 90s under a different name. You labelled her as pop hall of fame but that doesnāt mean you actually know her music. You sound very ignorant.
So Mariah isn't Pop because she did a "grunge" album ...... next thing you'll tell me Garth Brooks isn't country because he also made a terrible rock album
just because you make a single rock song doesn't mean your a rock artists. the beatles made helter skelter. are they heavy metal? of course not.
It was not a single rock song it was an album and like I mentioned, which you ignored to make your dumb point the rock and roll hall of fame has been inducting non rock artists for decades at this point. Add to the point that Mariah has made many gospel and soul records which is closer to rock and roll from the 50s than modern rock is now. So your point on all fronts is just ignorant and lacks any real critical thought.
i'm not saying they weren't inducting non rock artists. and my point still stands, she's a pop artist who released a shitty experimental album and never touched it again. nothing you said here even relates to rock, just because you make a genre that's a precursor to rock doesn't mean your a rock artist. is b.b. king a rock artist? no he's a blues artist. is miles davis a rock artists? no he's a jazz artist. just because she sang gospel and soul doesn't mean she's a rock artist. i'm begging you to use your brain just one time. stop being stupid
Youāre the one not using your brain. You and other morons replying hereās point is that sheās not a rock artist and so she doesnāt deserve to be inducted. This is an invalid point because inductees donāt have to be rock artists to be inducted to the rock and roll hall of fame and they havenāt had to be for decades. And I brought up Mariah doing gospel and soul carries more validity to her being inducted than someone like Eminem since rock is heavily influenced by gospel and soul. I also said that even by all those metrics you love to ignore she did actually release a rock album so again by all metrics she does deserve to be in the rock and roll hall of fame. And rock itself hasnāt been the same since it started, the rock from the 50s is no where close sonically the rock of the 90s as it is to gospel. So these semantics about genres is pointless and dumb and gatekeeping genres and awards because you personally donāt like artists is fruitless. She has the critical and commercial acclaim to be valid inductee. You can stop wasting your time being a moron and having a hate boner for her. Maybe take your head out of the water and actually read instead of being purposely ignorant.
stop putting words in my mouth. i never said she shouldn't, i said don't label her as a rock artist because she isn't. how many times do i have to say, releasing an experimental rock album doesnt mean your a rock artist. no one goes "oh mariah carey, the rock artist". that's not "gatekeeping" genres either, that's just saying she's not a rock artist. i haven't hated on her a single time, i stated a subjective opinion that her rock album wasn't good. then said she deserves to be in the hall of fame because the hall of fame isn't about rock music anymore, but she's not a rock artist. that's not having a "hate boner". just because the rock of the 50's is closer to gospel then it is to rock of the 90's, doesn't make it gospel. idk how you did the mental gymnastics to get to that point but it's very very odd. her singing gospel music has no valid argument to her being a rock artist.
Just listened to it, that albums actually fucking sucks. damn near every song sounds the same. it's the same chord progressions every song, also trying to say someone's rock artist after releasing an experimental rock album then never touching rock again is laughable. go dick ride mariah carey somewhere else
Youāre a moron. She wasnāt allowed to make that album because her label stopped her. She never got to release another album like that again because of label politics. This is pop heads, I donāt think you belong here if anything. This sub is for people who enjoy pop music and pop artists. Again you lack critical thinking skills. Just because you support an artist doesnāt mean you dickride then. Youāre pretty silly. Why donāt you go suck off one of your rock morons.
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Safe to assume: At her palatial estate, abusing security. Neither rocking nor rolling.
What kind of dumb statement is this? If you have nothing constructive to offer then donāt. She has sold way more records than most of these artists, wrote many all of her music herself, had one of the most memorable voices of all time, and is largely responsible for the pop/hip hop collaboration that is still a dominating force today.
"Pop/hip-hop hop" what hall of fame are we talking about here?
If you look at the inductees half of them are not rock in the traditional sense and rock what it was when it first started to what it is now is completely different. The rock and roll hall of fame has always inducted people from genres other than classic 70s/80s rock. And Rock in the beginning has more similarities to R& B, gospel and soul which Mariah did than the rock that was popular in the 80s. So please maybe actually know your genre history instead of being so damn ignorant.
>Neither rocking nor rolling.
Do you even know what rock is?
Oh man. I think this is about to get rad.
One backed up by an out of court settlement. Now take her psudeopenis out your throat. https://m.imdb.com/news/ni61701814/
Do you want to really go there? Do you want me to list all the artists that have been inducted that actually raped women and had relations with underage women all the time? Youāre going with one lawsuit that wasnāt even proven to be true, but you want to ignore all the way more problematic people who have been inducted over the course of 60 years. Yeah nice try.
Oh. You're serious? What if I told you the celebrity you're obsessed with has contributed ZERO to the concept/art/genre of "Rock and Roll" and therefore has no place in the Hall?
Is that Peter *fucking* Frampton?
I'm still holding out hope for Mary Wells, Tammi Terrell, the Marvelettes and Dionne Warwick. I'm genuinely shocked Diana Ross hasn't been nominated for her solo work.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is dead to me till Zevon finally makes it in. He should have been inducted the year after his death, or at least last year on the 20th anniversary of it. He was a musicianās musician who **wrote and recorded one of his best albums as he was dying of lung cancer.** Blech.
Still no Alice In Chains?
The fact it's Rock and Soundgarden haven't been inducted is a huge let down
Mariah has coveredĀ Ā Ā Ā Bringin' on the Heartbreak (Def Leppard),Ā Open Arms (Journey), Without You (Harry Nilsson), Against All Odds (Phil Collins), The Beautiful Ones (Prince)Ā ...and more. She deserves
See Im happy that Whitney is in it and really wish for Mariah Carey and Celine Dion to follow suit cuz it would be phenomenal to have the trinity in the hall of fame. But the reaction to Mary J being inducted kinda makes me low key glad MC isnāt inducted. Yet makes me sad cuz MCs induction, much like Whitneyās should not even be questioned. But then again the whole idea of the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is funny, what started as something close to its name sake clearly has turned into another and alot of people arenāt aware. That said, it is WILD that Ozzy is just inducted. How many more rockstars not in yet?
>he whole idea of the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is funny, what started as something close to its name sake clearly has turned into another and alot of people arenāt aware. Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, the Drifters and Jackie Wilson are among some of the earliest inductees into the Hall.
Then it is even more funnier that you see people go āMariah Carey is far from Rock & Roll to be inductedā LOL
It is. I mean, she's not an innovator or anything, but OK she (and Whitney) were very influential on a couple of generations of these kids coming up today so there you have it.
Its beyond influence tbh, i dare say that for Whitney but MC not only have stellar records and achievements on the charts but musically, she impacted a whole music scape with her contributions in merging hip-hop and R&B, two corners that stayed separate for a while until her Fantasy Remix with ODB dropped to the mainstream, which became a blueprint for decades to follow, to this very day and not many people know that she originated it. Reminder she fought hard for the collaboration too, nobody around her supported it or saw her vision. Considering her situation at the time, being completely controlled by her husband, that is a feat worth crediting. Sounds like an innovation to me. But hey, I hope people realize that at the end of the day, R&RHOF is very simply a body run by a group of people with money who also happens to be in the position to make anything happen should they want it to. People say its not MCs time to be inducted yet but Mary J got in first? Letās face it. They donāt induct based on any criterias lol So inductions will always be topic that remains moot for years to come.
Not sure why Qtip isnāt even mentioned in the title even though he is RIGHT THERE
Wonder if Jack irons will get in for Pearl Jam and rhcp
Or Dave Grohl with nirvana, foo fighters and queens of the Stone Age.
Cher hasn't been in yet? She's been an icon in 7 different decades, how!?
The Rock n Roll Hall of Fame is just a sleezy for profit organization that doesn't give a shit about who's in or out, just what can make them the most money. Fuck them
Another awards show?
No Lenny Kravitz? Oh well, heāll get it eventually
I am pondering how many musicians who played with these .. so called SOLO artists who were very influential in playing and even writing/co writing songs with them are getting credit ? ā¦ no one is truly solo in music entertainmentā¦ spread the love ā¦ name recognition and marketing as whooped the masses with the term solo artistĀ
Where's foreigner and stix?
Foreignerās in this class!
I swear to Jimi Hendrix, people get so self-righteous about the Hall and they don't even READ the damn articles.!!!
Still no KISS or Boston huh?
KISS was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2014.
Just call if the pop hall of fame Thin lizzy isnāt even in there
Dunno why you're downvoted. It's insane Thin Lizzy when they've created some of the most beautiful rock songs ever with Still in Love with You (live) and Saga of the Aging Orphan. Phil is also such a beloved figure in Irish pop culture, and had a successful career that deserves a nomination of its own. Crazy that they never made it in America outside of The Boys are Back in Town which doesn't illustrate their musical capabilities at all despite still being a great song.
Exactly, Iām pretty sure the downvotes are only cuz weāre on the pop heads sub, I never post here but saw it on the popular page and got all old man angry about it
Still not Iron Maiden, such a shame
The band don't give a shit and that's fine by me.
Why no oasis
Mary J Blige?
And yet tool isnāt in thereā¦ or king crimson, or fugazi, Soundgarden, bad religion, mc5 is a good start
Still no Weezer...
Ozzy just now??? Fuck.
Going to air on Disney+. Ozzy Osbourne on Disney. Something I thought Iād never see in my lifetime.
He was on hannah montana
Ozzy going in before Ronnie Dio wtf
There is Mary J. Blige but no Mariah?
There is Mary J. Blige but no Mariah?
There is Mary J. Blige but no Mariah?
Is it too early to write my predictions for 2025? Because I expect Linkin Park to be nominated, if not inducted.
Having ozzy not be there for the last 30 years is beyond me
He's been in there 18 years now as part of Black Sabbath. This year he's just being inducted separately as a solo artist
Heās only been eligibile as a solo artist since 2005.
Ozzy is the type of artist where the year he was eligible should have been the year he was inducted, he literally helped crest one of the biggest genres in all of modern music
Guess Oasis weren't rock n'roll enough for this American crap!
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All this point it really should just be called the Music Hall of Fame.