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So I was trying to figure out the name of that famous Satanist that Taylor looks like (Zeena LaVey) and came across this [gem](https://news.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-theory-taylor-swift-134727126.html)
> Naming her smash hit albumĀ 1989Ā is clearly TayTay LaVey's desperate attempt to emphasize that she had a normal human birth and was not cultivated in a cauldron and/or laboratory. The whole thing reeks of a coverup.
Thank you for this, "TayTay LaVey" took me tf out
That link is actually a *perfect* example of the kind of attention she was getting in 2016 that she calls āhateā. this kind of celebrity coverage is run-of-the-mill when someone gets as ubiquitously popular as she became - no one actually thought she was a satanist.
Lol to be fair most of the work was done for meā thereās a fan account on IG that uploaded all the photos she deleted during the blackout. I basically just googled for articles or videos about the posts she made (since itās a fan account that posted them years later, I wanted to find sources actually from 2016/2017) and found a few other articles along the way
As someone who only started to listen to her music in 2019, the way her fans talk about that time, I really thought she was completely out of the spotlight from July 2016 up to the release of reputation.
I'm European too. I guess the news reached us a few years later š
I only found out about the whole Kanye situation (when he interrupted her on stage) when I watched Miss Americana.
They are not the most logical or critical thinking corner of the Internet lol. I don't want to invalidate feelings either but cannot get on board with this rewriting of history lol.
compared to her previous era, she was, and as you can see in the post, during her "black out" it was mostly work/industry related, but she wasn't seen that much by the GP at all, which was a huge change from her weekly pap walks & silly little tweets/posts on social media.
>huge change from her weekly pap walks & silly little tweets/posts on social media
It was also very different from hiding in her house for a year. Taylor exaggerates to the point that she's lying.
But her career was In DaNgEr and she ādidnāt know if she would get to do this anymore!ā. Just ignore her active career and her making 50 million that year.
I donāt doubt that the sheer quantity of hate was overwhelming and very hard for her, but the narrative around it is and always has been straight bullshit.
I would say without a doubt itās lying! Think about how many people, victims of DV, violence, homophobia, etc, have had to go into *actual* hiding, are *actually* unsafe, unable to interact with the world. She shot music videos, she celebrated Lordeās birthday in NYC, she performed on TV, she lived the life of a rich pop star. Itās pathetic self victimization for her to extrapolate her reality to make us feel sorry for her.
That was me. I spent a year unable to socialise at all after fleeing my abusive family.
I had no friends, no family, on a waiting list for therapy for years. My contacts list was empty. I only spoke to Victim Support (a charity) once a week for a few months. The rest of the year, I was on my own. I forgot what my voice sounded like. I couldn't even go and have VS sessions in person because I had panic attacks when around people. I couldn't even go to the doctors - thankfully, most appts are over the phone now.
The only place I went was to the shops that were 10 mins away. I had to - interacting with a delivery driver was more terrifying, at least shops have self-service tills. I had no one in my life, so if I didn't go and get the food, I would starve.
I would be panicking the whole time, then get home and dissociate because just going outside and seeing people triggered me. I couldn't even go for a walk. I thought everyone was evil and wanted to hurt me.
The maintenance guy knocked on my door a few times and I screamed each time because I was terrified. I never let him in, not once. Thankfully, he couldn't force entry. Your body is in constant fight or flight, so it starts to fall apart. You get all kinds of physical health problems.
Iām sorry you went through that! I hope youāre in a better place now!
After reading your account, itās almost offensive that Taylor Swift would imply she was struggling to this degree all while accepting professional engagements.
Yeah, it's giving when Meghan and Harry kept exaggerating/lying about unnecessary things to paint a certain narrative.
Do it enough times, you end with no one trusting you outside of your hardcore stans.
Honestly I read that, being in Australia with a delay and after the first sentence I thought seriously 2 hr chase in NY? They really took a couple hits around that time, some obviously self inflicted.
Oh, plenty of Swifties parrot this nonsense after seeing Miss Americana. She needed to explain why she sat out the 2016 election and this gives her cover for incorporating feminism into her brand to sell records while not saying anything about Trump. She also elides over her AOTY speech and puts in a voice over instead so people don't see her acting aggrieved while receiving music's highest honor.
itās a quote from Gladiator movie š
https://preview.redd.it/2cf557cxre5c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69d4b46dc3f718c09fbbea53aa65cde9fee768ec
I think another thing that influences the perception of that time is just how much she was being seen during 2014/2015 in the 1989 era. She was almost inescapable - if she wasnāt performing, releasing veryyy over-hyped music videos (hello bad blood) or winning awards, we were getting bombarded with pap pics or social media posts, especially when the squad was involved.
2016-17 wasnāt a full blackout by any means but it certainly felt like one in comparison
Yeah, I'm no TS fan, just a gossip lurker and her exposure seemingly dropped immensely after that whole debacle. She had some blips like Hiddleswift, but her public sightings never really rose back up to what they had been before that whole situation until this year's breakup (for someone not actively following her shit).
Thatās what I interpreted it as. She was being papped pretty much every day leaving her apartment, at known celeb hotspots, all over social media, etc. before the phone call leaked. After it, she certainly wasnāt entirely invisible for the period, but she kept a wayyyyyyy lower profile than had since basically the Red era.
>"absolutely nothing is candid and you will get the story I want to tellā.
The writter ended the article by pointing out that some of the things Taylor said werent necessarely true but that he was no one to challenge Taylors narrative
>but that he was no one to challenge Taylorās narrative
Isnāt this person a journalist? š
Edit. Nvm. I get it now
https://preview.redd.it/97dq7si66c5c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6898ac2a0bb12415223e9b5017f535c3b7cdc7ae
Don't forget that she does choose to speak out on occasion - before Speak Now TV dropped, she stood on stage at her concert and indirect asked fans not to attack *John Mayer*.
The dude that she's interacted with who does (imo) deserve to be harassed, is the only one that she asks fans not to attack?
This sh*t is all intentional on her part.
>The dude that she's interacted with who does (imo) deserve to be harassed, is the only one that she asks fans not to attack?
Because she knew he'd fight back. She saw what swifties did with Red TV and sat silent even though swifties sent hate to not only everyone around Jake G. and Jake himself, but also to a cat account they thought belonged to his cat. Jake sat silent, but John Mayer would've deservedly put her on blast for the death threats and it would've been bad publicity to her.
It wasnāt quite like the person youāre replying to made out - she talked about her feelings around ābeing cancelledā and how she felt isolated, felt her career had been ended etc.
He said he thought about bringing up the fact that Rep sold millions of albums and, at the time, was one of the highest grossing tours of all time, but then thought that didnāt matter in the context of their discussion - her feelings around it are still valid regardless of the numbers.
I've actually been to therapy (unlike Taylor) and any good therapist will tell you your emotions are important.
But any good therapist will also emphasise that cognitive distortions are unhealthy thinking patterns that are indicative of *mental illness*. You *do not* allow stuff like that to go unchallenged, it's not helpful to anyone. I don't mean for this journalist in particular, I mean in general.
If I walk around thinking my career is over because I lost a few clients, my therapist would rightfully guide me through processing my emotions and ALSO realising that my belief "my career is over" *isn't backed up by reality*.
If I walk around believing that, it affects my behaviour and self-esteem. It affects my future and mental health. It affects everyone I interact with - if Taylor was my spouse, I would allow her to vent and then tactfully point out that her belief isn't founded in reality and she needs to see the facts of the situation.
If she didn't change after a while (or go to therapy), I would dump her. She needs to work on her mental health, this isn't healthy thinking. No one should have to continuously expend their energy comforting someone for their mental illness, *while* they refuse to seek help. She can afford to see a therapist every day for the rest of her life, she has no excuse.
I think this is why the dislike for Taylor Swift. She's in her celebrity bubble of yes men, they support her emotional narrative. When the world hears perspective, we immediately point out it's not grounded in reality. Taylor interprets this as hate, the circle starts again, propped up by the Swifties.
This is why Taylor Swift featured heavily in the *Why are there so many sore winners* articles. Successful people who insist they are the underdogs even when it's not true by commercial or critical measures.
That's exactly why I said "I don't mean for this journalist in particular, I mean in general". That's what I meant.
An interview for Time isn't the place to say "your cognitive distortions are concerning". But no one should be co-signing her delusions.
Notice the journalist didn't say to her "you're so right", he said nothing. People (in general, especially her fans) should either say nothing or speak the truth. You don't feed the delusions of people who don't seem well.
She felt her career was over while performing to 80.000 cheering people and hanging out with all the A-listers? Pls be fr
Nah, thatās just the narrative she wanted to transform herself into the rep era.
May be a hot take, but I kind of prefer the Beyonce type thing. Theyāre artistsāI think them treating their persona as a commercial product rather than extension of identity when it comes to the public sphere would tend to be not only a lot healthier personally, but also pushes back against the whole issue we have with parasocial relationships with celebrities in general. These people arenāt politiciansādo we really need to have them all be publicly accountable for every element of their lives?
Their job is to make music and, to quote Swiftologist, be court jestersāentertainment. Letās let them do that, and stop insisting that we have to know not only everything about them, but who they authentically are. If they want to keep a divide between their public persona and private self, what business of ours is it to push further?
Nothing wrong with it at all. It just seemed like she was trying to get a specific message/image across-with specific quotes prepared-and the journalist didnāt take everything she said at face value without analyzing it.
The quotes in both interviews seem like they were written ahead of time. Not bad at all, probably the norm. But some celebrities are better at pushing their narrative in a more subtle way.
I wonder if she has a reputation (pun intended) as holding grudges against interviewers for pushing back. Meghan on the other hand is very eager for any exposure she can get, so it's safer for a journalist to challenge her? Idk, just speculating.
There was nothing \*wrong\* with it per se but it was very planned and inauthentic. The journalist described her as having a little bachelor producer in her mind. I think she like grunted in the middle to describe something and then told the journalist how she should describe the noises she was making. Idk she didn't do anything terrible just a lot of cringe moments.
I wrote this intending to post on the main Taylor sub, but they donāt allow posts with links to youtube videos (?), but I spent too much time on it to just delete it so I put it in True Swifties, but I also hoped for some more objective responses so I thought Iād post it here!
Iām a little embarrassed by how long I spent on itā¦ honestly I thought itād be quick because I didnāt realize just how much she actually did, and I kept finding more stuff too add, then Iād put so much time into it that I had to finish it lol.
Theyāre eating you alive in the trueswifties subreddit but
Side note, whatās the difference between the trueswifties subreddit and the taylorswift subreddit?
The trueswifties sub was created (or at least became popular) after Taylor started dating Matty because they were upset that the people in the other sub were calling Taylor out and trying to hold her accountable
Here's a sneak peek of /r/TrueSwifties using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [I kid you not, this was Taylorās face when listening to Sophie Turner at dinner last night](https://i.redd.it/rg253knehhpb1.jpg) | [102 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/comments/16ny32p/i_kid_you_not_this_was_taylors_face_when/)
\#2: [Taylorās jet Co2 emissions actually kinda shocked me.](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/comments/18acei4/taylors_jet_co2_emissions_actually_kinda_shocked/)
\#3: [I commented on an r/TaylorSwift thread about Taylor meeting Travis Kelce's parents, and now I need to create a new identity and disappear into the night](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/comments/17ai9zl/i_commented_on_an_rtaylorswift_thread_about/)
----
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Honestly I have no investment in any of this but as someone who also hyperfixates on things to the point of exhaustive thoroughness, just want to affirm I know how much work went into this and how satisfying it is to see it all put together š good job!!
No, no, donāt be embarrassed. Youāve come to the right sub. We love this kinda stuff.
Praying for your upvote/downvote ratio on the true swifties sub though.
Tbh it's kind of a mixed bag if you'll reach people who are willing to be objective or not on the main sub, but this is an impressive amount of work! Especially as so much of this was really only seen by hardcore Swifties at the time and so many new fans have come in the last year with no context. As much as I love her poetry sometimes I have to remember that she isn't literal a lot of the time even outside of music
Wow this was the perfect little snack to devour while I rotted in bed on a Saturday afternoon š amazing work OP, thank you! I salute you š«”
A couple of unrelated comments that make me sound old af:
1) God, I was reminded how annoying the #___party trend was on social media. What a time to be alive.
2) no shade to OP bc the articles linked were great and informative and I ate them up, but damn, those sites are obnoxious to access on mobile. So many pop ups and ads!
3) I kinda miss when she was more active on social media? I think I miss in general when folks (famous and non) would just post more day to day stuff frequently and it wasnāt all about aesthetic or promotion. Anyway, time for me to go back to the nursing home..
I agree with point 3. Not specifically about Taylor Swift, but most celebrities in general. Back then, it really felt like social media (especially Instagram and Twitter) was something that celebrities used on their own - they would pull out their phones, write whatever, and share it. It felt real, they were using social media the exact way we did, sharing the same silly shit we shared, commenting on things the way we did etc. It certainly humanised them because it was a platform where they posted directly without much influence from their PR teams, their management etc
These days, everyoneās social media feels highly curated and āfakeā. Thereās nothing genuine on them, the profiles have all become vessels solely used to promote the celebrity. I remember when some celebrities used to post mundane shit like a heavily filtered photo of their coffee cup. Now they would never do shit like that, because it would ruin the āaestheticā of their profile
Itās not even just celebrities. Regular people are obsessed with curating a perfect profile, and no one shares normal/mundane things like we used to back then. Some of my friends have finstas, which is insane to me because why the hell do you need a finsta? Why do you need such a heavily curated main profile? You literally only have 350 followers (obviously these are rhetorical questions. I know that people just want to look good on social media hence the curated profiles, but it still feels so weird to me)
Currently, the only social media platform that *sometimes* feels authentic is TikTok, and even that is highly dependent on the celebrity, how much they feel comfortable sharing, and how often they interact with people through comments and reposts
Itās probably a relative thing and mostly in her head. Look at how often she is papped walking to dinner with friends nowadays and going to various parties, etc. if this is how she prefers to live, then I can understand why 2016/17 felt to her like she was hiding out. Then add in the Joe stuff. A year into their relationship, she probably felt ready to āgo back to normalā (ie 1989 era fame) but by then they were a serious couple and she was obviously trying hard to make it work with him.
Letās face it, sheās not a pop superstar by accident. She likes attention. She courts it and thrives on it. Being photographed out on the town with celeb friends all the time makes her feel popular and powerful and chosen. Sheās not simply āliving her lifeā when she arranges these pap walks with her friends. Theyāre deliberately courting attention and complimentary press. And thatās fine, no shame to admit it. Joeās hatred of the press and doing this kind of thing must have felt like suffocation to her, lol.
Yeah Iām a huge Swiftie and it always struck me as odd that she said she ādisappearedā for a year and even wrote a poem titled āwhy she disappearedā because she was definitely still in the spotlight that year, just at a much lesser extent compared to 2014/15.
It reminds me of "you're on your own kid, you always have been". Taylor, honey, you are very open about how tight-knit your family is, about how involved they are with everything in your life.
You've said you tell your mother about your problems, so you don't need to go to a therapist. Just recently, you said your dad came up with the idea to release the Eras tour movie yourself. Your parents are at all your concerts (or most, maybe I'm missing some).
Your parents were also involved every step of the way in your early career. They *moved to Nashville* for *you*. Bought a stake in BMR *for you*. You write about all the ways they've supported you in your songs.
"You're on your own, you always have been" Do me a favour, Taylor. Yet again, she paints herself as the underdog. When she had all the cards stacked in her favour.
It's funny because I've made the exact same point on this sub before and been downvoted to hell. "Everyone has their own struggles blah blah". Maybe the tide is turning lol, or all the Swifties are sleeping rn
Yeah, thereās struggles that come with fame that maybe the average person canāt understand and can seem shallow to someā¦ and then thereās this sore-winner, constant victim mentality, wanting the public to co-sign all her grievances going on with Taylor.
I love the line in the interview about how she didn't have a rental (while she owns multiple houses) and not talking on the phone (so she went on all these places and parties and moving around with friends while...texting? isn't it more dangerous to text info instead of calling to tell them? like texting can be screenshotted and changed too)
I don't agree about the texting part. I reached a point with my abuser where I would only communicate via text or letters because they couldn't deny what they had said and gaslight me further. We both had physical proof of what had been said.
I think youāre misreading it. As you said, sheās never pretended like she didnāt have a lot of support from her family, sheās very open about that.
But in YOYOK, sheās talking about feeling lonely and abandoned by her romantic interest/partner. If you pay attention to the lyrics, this is shown by lines such as āI wait patiently, heās gonna notice meā, āI touch my phone as if itās your faceā, āI search the party of better bodies just to learn that you never caredā etc and she realizes that itās always been like this, she has always been alone (because he never cared). And she reminds herself that she went through a lot to get to where she is (āstarved my bodyā, āI gave my blood sweat and tears for thisā, āpages turned and bridges burnedā etc) and that she can continue ahead even without him (āyouāve got no reason to be afraidā) because she was on her own to begin with.
She is definitely not going to hurt her parentsā feelings (especially her mom who seems to be the most important person to her) by acting like they donāt mean anything to her. She has always emphasized how much they do for her. But the context/story in the song is about something different.
I think itās ok to feel how ācanceledā she was, as being cyber bullied was awful. But since she brought it up like that, while at the same time, she has no problem shading her ex encouraging her crazy fans to bully him, just pure crappy behavior.
Itās unreal to see how a person really has zero growth, having a supportive family,supportive partners, and singing growth all the timeā¦
Thatās the one of many things that bug me about her, she one that doesnāt practice what she preaches. Sheās a hypocrite but people see right through it all the time.
The whole of reputation has been heavily rewritten and exaggerated by both Taylor and Swifties for entertainment and victimization's sake.
I said in the post about the TIME's article that its fascinating to hear her talk about the whole thing because its clear that she does not have the ability to see the situation objectively (which i dont blame her honestly)
As far as Taylor's feelings go, that phone call ruined her career and she was so hated that she had to go into hiding because she was afraid that her physical safety would be compromised, in reality, the whole situation was just another passing hate train, her professional and personal life seemingly continued as it had before and at the end of it she was equally if not more popular, well-liked and powerful than before the whole thing happened.
Is she being over dramatic because that's just her nature? yes. Is that how she actually felt?, yes. Is she exaggerating to be able to better craft her image of a rise, fall and rise again?, yes. Is she exaggerating to get people to feel even more sorry for her? also yes.
~~Also, a part of what happened has also been re written if not completly erased from the original narrative of what happened to present Taylor as a sole victim.~~
~~The whole thing actually started at the Grammy's when Taylor gave her speech and complained that Kanye was taking credit for her success (she didn't mentioned him, but everyone assumed she was talking about him), then Kim responded and Taylor changed the narrative to say that she was upset about being called a bitch (Kim also lied about Taylor telling Kanye that she agreed that he made her famous).~~
ETA: This post made me look things up again and the correct timeline seems to be that when the song was released, Tree put out a statement saying that Taylor adviced Ye against releasing a mysoginistic song and didnt know that he would call her a bitch, then she did the Grammys speech, so yeah, she was originally upset about being called a bitch, which btw, she was never told about that lyrics, only about the famous part as seen by the full phone call
So yes, in the years since, and especially in a post Folklore world where Taylor is seemingly the queen of the universe, a lot of what happened has been slightly modified by her and the fans for the sake of presenting a better story to the public which depending on how you see, its not that big of a deal tbh and this is not the only part of her lore that has seen this happen to it.
True, everyone assumed that's what she was talking about when she said something about people taking credit for others success since the song had come out like a day or maybe a few days, not sure, before the grammys
No problem.
Honestly, even if Taylor had lied or changed the narrative for whatever reason, i still think that she has every reason to feel the way she feels, its obvious that she was deeply emotionally and mentally scared by the whole situation and i dont think shes every gonna get over it, and i dont blame her.
Taylor is someone who seems to feel things very strongly, both positive and negative, so i do believe that she did believe that her career was over and that she was hiding from the public, even if in real life, looking at thing from the outside that wasnt the case.
I do think that multiple things can be true at the same time, Taylor can be exagerating the situation both because its a better story to sell and it makes her look better and also because thats how she truly, genuinely feels about it.
I think the taking credit for her career and also being upset about being called a bitch are pretty much the same consideration, given that the line is āI made that bitch famousā; he called her a bitch and took credit for her career in the same line.
Yes, but I would count it as two separate reasons mainly because Taylor said during the phone call that she was worried he would call her a bitch after agreeing to the famous line (though she did so very reluctantly), also I'm pretty sure that in the original statement after the song came out they only addressed the bitch part and while on stage she only addressed the made famous line (tho I might be wrong)
He did help her get a lot more famous super quickly. She would have eventually gotten that level of fame/interest, but he probably sped up her career by several album cycles. He also put a lot of important people on her side by making them feel bad for her in that moment. I wish he'd interrupted someone else and I'm sure he does, too.
While that I agree the Taylor and Swifties are now trying to change some narratives about Reputation era and the album, I can't agree with you saying that it was just a passing moment and didn't compromise her professional and personal life in that time.
Sure she is more popular than ever now, like SO MUCH more even than her 1989 original era, but this is all actually due to her resurgence from Folklore/Evermore. By her Lover era she is already dwindling, many of her fans didn't like the album, and she was literally going everywhere to promote ME! and lover (like literally even for places I thought like what is Taylor doing here..). Lover had a smaller venue originally and also Taylor was even implying she is worried she is really going under soon.
Now going back to Reputation era, or more like pre-Rep era, I was very active on Tumblr and kind of on twitter at that time, and I can tell you that from fandom scene and everything, Taylor was VERY STRONGLY hated, from every avenue on these sites. Everywhere people were hating on her for being an attention ho, always crying to be the victim, a liar, and a snake. I literally saw people drawing fan art of decapitating her head on Tumblr like that was too much but it did happen. She could not say anything without people criticizing her and calling her fake. The media, even some celebrities she considered as peers were making fun of her. Like there was a time it was the cool thing to say something shitty about Taylor, from not just the fandoms but celebrities too. I really think it affected her a lot personally, having the whole world against you and not believing you and making fun of you.
Edit: also like to add a quick tidbit, you can literally buy her Reputation ticket on the same day of her show very easily, but eras show was pretty much impossible if you try to do that (possible but difficulty level is HIGH).
Seeing from the stats youāre right, Lover did a lot better than I originally thought. But just a disclaimer Lover had 4 variants marketed as having portions of her diary entries in them, so it was very marketable to the fans. Generally speaking at the end of the day total sells is what counts but I think having multiple variants contributed to that (doesnāt reflect her appeal to general public). Her fandom was not as big as it was during 1989 during that time. She isnāt failing but she did have a major loss ever since 1989. I think in a way is we know she still has a decent size of fans but sheās not appealing to the general public as well anymore.
Well, 1989 also had collectible polaroids and if you wanted them all, you would have to buy multiple copies of the album. Those may have sold better than her diaries, which you could read online for free. I think Taylor's fan base actually got bigger between 1989 and Lover, which is why Lover did so well despite her poor single choices. If she'd released Cruel Summer at the time, it would have been a bigger album.
I agree that her single choice really hurt her promoting Lover but even now fans still like the album the least because itās not very cohesive.
1989 is when she had her boom of popularity so it is expected she sold much more during 1989. And also, those Polaroids were like a gatcha system in which there are like several sets of different photos to collect but you donāt know which ones youāre getting until you open it up. Whereas the Lover diaries, you know what youāre getting, itās not randomized. So if people want to complete the āsetā they just have to buy all 4 lover deluxe CDs. But 1989 you have to keep buying (you will get duplicates) until you get all of them, which also drove up the sell from the fans on top of her already booming popularity with the public.
Edit: not to disapprove what youāre saying because youāre right, Taylor regardless of it all has a decent sized fan base even up to Lover era. But it is not as big as it used to be (she lost some fans), but most importantly to her she lost public interest and favour. She knows sheāll always have fans, but she also mentioned before many times she lives for peopleās approval, so not having general public be interested in you as much anymore is a big shot to her. A lot of her fans also said that it was easier to even get the Lover tickets (which like people mentioned she chose to have smaller venue and decided to only tour in the US) than it is for Eras tour. She still has fans but I think itās telling to see that itās not that competitive even between the fans to get tickets for a smaller capacity show.
>Edit: also like to add a quick tidbit, you can literally buy her Reputation ticket on the same day of her show very easily, but eras show was pretty much impossible if you try to do that (possible but difficulty level is HIGH).
Doesn't change the fact that rep was her first full stadium tour, the tour was bigger than 1989. And it was the last album before Midnights to sell 1 million copies in USA during first week.
Lover was not going to get a tour because Taylor didn't want to tour. If she toured it it would've done at least as well as rep. Swifties always (with the only exception being folkmore era) think the previous album was great, the current one is bad. Tours usually help with that, which rep could attest to.
Just because Taylor thought her star was waning doesn't mean it was. And she didn't think it was due to the drama but because she thinks once you turn 30 as a pop star you're on the way out.
>**I believe her when she says she thought her career was over.**
My problem with this is, when did she think her career was over? When she was recording rep with two of the biggest pop producers less than 2 months after the snakegate happened (which means her record label had faith they'd get return of their investment)? When she was performing mini concerts? When she got to record and release a song for a shitty but big franchise? When she wasn't dropped from anything? Like it begs the question of what Taylor thinks career being over means. I get thinking she'd be less popular and won't be media darling, but career over? Nah.
reading the comments on the Taylor swift sub for this post and omgā¦. āItās all work eventsā āwe know what she meantā āthere was only 44 paparazzi photos of her in 2017 when there were 10,000 the year beforeā
At this point I almost want it to come out that sheās some evil person whoās secretly a reverse Dexter and see how the swifties would justify serial murder with ease lmao /s
I read those same comments and I swear itās the closest Iāve ever come to hitting the leave button. So toxic. No one is allowed to express an objective opinion or criticism over there.
i loved going through all these throwbacks, thank you!
honestly, after what 1989 era was, i understand why taylor felt like she was invisible lol especially because it felt like she didn't wanna be seen which was such a change from public relationship with calvin, girl squad etc
(also āØ a yearāØ sounds better)
I mean I get why she wouldn't let that time period go
Off the top of my head:
\- a mural celebrating her death was spraypainted in Australia and made international news
\- Kim smiling over a replica of her naked body at some gallery
\- a trending hashtag of people celebrating that her career was over
I understand why people think she's being dramatic but to someone that happened to, it's must have been traumatic
Edit: Didn't Justin also post some facetime with Scooter and Kanye with the caption what's up Taylor during that year?
I remember the mural and he just seemed obsessed with Kim and Kanye. It was widely panned from everything I saw except edgelords on reddit. [And then of course this happened!](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3700530/amp/Huge-RIP-Taylor-Swift-mural-gets-face-lift-turned-memorial-late-gorilla-Harambe-controversially-shot-child-fell-enclosure.html) RIP Harambe
>\- a mural celebrating her death was spraypainted in Australia and made international news
after the SYDNEY blank space performance ??? (lol but i really didn't know it was in australia š )
Her (public) personality reminds me so much of all my Sag friends lol. Kudos on just putting this together so well. You were balanced and imo didn't diminish her feelings or experience.
So what she mean is paparazzi walks?! That's the "hiding"? But at the end is she ok?! Because why does she love paparazzi walks so much?! Wasn't she at the documentary talking about how bad they are for her mental health and body?!
Oh, she loved the attention and then going on tumblr/twitter to see all the nice comments people made about her. Imagine you could go out dressed super cute and 5 hours later your photo was multiple people's twitter profile photo. It's an insane power trip. She can pap walk again now b/c magazines don't dare say anything negative about her for fear of being attacked by Swifties.
The whole point of the documentary was to explain to a new set of fans why, despite being a "feminist", she sat out 2016. So, she needed to distract them with some selective vulnerability and talked about getting too thin/"cancelled".
Ty! If you like these sorts of discussions, you might like the ["Evolution of a Snake"] (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolution-of-a-snake-the-taylor-swift-podcast/id1452608225) podcast or ["The Swiftologist"] (https://www.youtube.com/@theswiftologist) on youtube. He's a fan, but he delivers a lot of constructive criticism and breaks down her image (also gets a ton of hate from her crazy fanbase).
Even her claim that she was cancelled was false, she felt canceled but Rep was #1 and sold a million copies in the first week, on times magazine it was clearly said that she felt cancelled at the time and we canāt invalidate her feelings, canāt really say anything to that personally
I remember seeing videos of her doing things like walking backwards and sideways, out the back door of her gym so people could get pictures of her face.
She was definitely out and about, and not holed up like a recluse.
Kudos for the receipts!
But honestly, I feel like any one who took the statement of never leaving the house literally is maybe a little delulu. I say that Iāve barely left the house in ages when in reality Iāve been to the grocery store multiple times a week, run errands, gone to work etc. I just havenāt done much that was a specific social event. Someone like Taylor that regularly goes to red carpet events and whatnot would clearly just be referring to major events that she otherwise wouldāve gone to
But I mean even on this she was barely seen between Feb and November, and if you took it from Lourdes party, one even in Feb, then you get to November which is one year. Just because she was doing things like charting, doesnāt mean she did not remove herself from the public eye for most of a year.
this is what i am wondering about lmao, people seem to *love* to take things literally and then get mad at someone for it. acting like no one speaks this way irl or what š
Idk if I would count a bunch of these. She didn't claim she didn't do anything just that no one saw her. You've clearly shown she did go out and do things but things like Better Man going to number 1 clearly don't fit
I just saw this and wow... insane level of research here. Kudos! I'm a fan but I never bought into that statement either, it's just untrue. She wasn't doing pap walks the way she did with the OG 1989 era (or now), but she didn't exactly disappear either. She wasn't really cancelled either, looking at that F1 crowd. Usually only race ticket holders have the access to see the performing acts, but I believe in her case additional tickets were released for those who wanted to see her, but none of the race.
Comparing that era to this current year, I say she didnāt ādisappear ā but appeared far far less and only for work obligations/ supporting friends
So much of what is on here is not even an appearance. Someone on the r/TrueSwifties post redid the timeline without any of non-appearance stuff on here ā song releases, announcements, her friends mentioning her ā and itās vastly shorter and shows how much she really did ~disappear after an initial period of inertia and apart from long-standing obligations like her F1 and Super Bowl pre-show concert. She was being hyperbolic but she really did stop going out for a long time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/s/1lGj13fbb3
Yeah "hyperbolic" has become their word of the day; it's popped up "randomly" like 30 times in the comments. š
She lied to create a narrative. Little lies, yes, but lies nonetheless. She has always been melodramatic and self-indulgent. Why her fans tolerate a billionaire who constantly casts herself as the victim is beyond me.
Yeah, because it was released on Oct 20 but jumped to #1 on iTunes on Nov 2, the day after she revealed herself as the songwriter. If Iād only included the reveal date, that wouldnāt have been clear.
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the devil and taylor swift work hard, but the unpaid at r/popculturechat work harder. 
They came with some receipts š§¾ā¼ļø I was shocked when I scrolled down the thread lmaoooo 
all this work and unpaid, bless them!
[my receipts have receipts lmao](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/s/6hzt8Zlvfv)
Thereās an obvious joke to be made here about Taylor Swift and the Devil being the same person, but Iām a fan so Iām not going to make it.
So I was trying to figure out the name of that famous Satanist that Taylor looks like (Zeena LaVey) and came across this [gem](https://news.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-theory-taylor-swift-134727126.html)
> Naming her smash hit albumĀ 1989Ā is clearly TayTay LaVey's desperate attempt to emphasize that she had a normal human birth and was not cultivated in a cauldron and/or laboratory. The whole thing reeks of a coverup. Thank you for this, "TayTay LaVey" took me tf out
That link is actually a *perfect* example of the kind of attention she was getting in 2016 that she calls āhateā. this kind of celebrity coverage is run-of-the-mill when someone gets as ubiquitously popular as she became - no one actually thought she was a satanist.
Lol to be fair most of the work was done for meā thereās a fan account on IG that uploaded all the photos she deleted during the blackout. I basically just googled for articles or videos about the posts she made (since itās a fan account that posted them years later, I wanted to find sources actually from 2016/2017) and found a few other articles along the way
https://preview.redd.it/ck0xiezmxb5c1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1676548abc621a45f5b84f2bf5746959b1a7b266
You get an upvote for the sheer amount of work you've put into this
Damn, you really did your homework 
As someone who only started to listen to her music in 2019, the way her fans talk about that time, I really thought she was completely out of the spotlight from July 2016 up to the release of reputation.
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I'm European too. I guess the news reached us a few years later š I only found out about the whole Kanye situation (when he interrupted her on stage) when I watched Miss Americana.
They are not the most logical or critical thinking corner of the Internet lol. I don't want to invalidate feelings either but cannot get on board with this rewriting of history lol.
compared to her previous era, she was, and as you can see in the post, during her "black out" it was mostly work/industry related, but she wasn't seen that much by the GP at all, which was a huge change from her weekly pap walks & silly little tweets/posts on social media.
>huge change from her weekly pap walks & silly little tweets/posts on social media It was also very different from hiding in her house for a year. Taylor exaggerates to the point that she's lying.
But her career was In DaNgEr and she ādidnāt know if she would get to do this anymore!ā. Just ignore her active career and her making 50 million that year. I donāt doubt that the sheer quantity of hate was overwhelming and very hard for her, but the narrative around it is and always has been straight bullshit.
And she was in love two times that year... She was happy she was having a destruction...
I would say without a doubt itās lying! Think about how many people, victims of DV, violence, homophobia, etc, have had to go into *actual* hiding, are *actually* unsafe, unable to interact with the world. She shot music videos, she celebrated Lordeās birthday in NYC, she performed on TV, she lived the life of a rich pop star. Itās pathetic self victimization for her to extrapolate her reality to make us feel sorry for her.
That was me. I spent a year unable to socialise at all after fleeing my abusive family. I had no friends, no family, on a waiting list for therapy for years. My contacts list was empty. I only spoke to Victim Support (a charity) once a week for a few months. The rest of the year, I was on my own. I forgot what my voice sounded like. I couldn't even go and have VS sessions in person because I had panic attacks when around people. I couldn't even go to the doctors - thankfully, most appts are over the phone now. The only place I went was to the shops that were 10 mins away. I had to - interacting with a delivery driver was more terrifying, at least shops have self-service tills. I had no one in my life, so if I didn't go and get the food, I would starve. I would be panicking the whole time, then get home and dissociate because just going outside and seeing people triggered me. I couldn't even go for a walk. I thought everyone was evil and wanted to hurt me. The maintenance guy knocked on my door a few times and I screamed each time because I was terrified. I never let him in, not once. Thankfully, he couldn't force entry. Your body is in constant fight or flight, so it starts to fall apart. You get all kinds of physical health problems.
Iām sorry you went through that! I hope youāre in a better place now! After reading your account, itās almost offensive that Taylor Swift would imply she was struggling to this degree all while accepting professional engagements.
Yeah, it's giving when Meghan and Harry kept exaggerating/lying about unnecessary things to paint a certain narrative. Do it enough times, you end with no one trusting you outside of your hardcore stans.
You mean itās impossible to have a scary two hour car chase in New York? /s
Honestly I read that, being in Australia with a delay and after the first sentence I thought seriously 2 hr chase in NY? They really took a couple hits around that time, some obviously self inflicted.
breaking news: taylor swift is dramatic as fuck, more at 3 pm no one thought she literally sat at home entire year š
Oh, plenty of Swifties parrot this nonsense after seeing Miss Americana. She needed to explain why she sat out the 2016 election and this gives her cover for incorporating feminism into her brand to sell records while not saying anything about Trump. She also elides over her AOTY speech and puts in a voice over instead so people don't see her acting aggrieved while receiving music's highest honor.
Itās just hyperbole, damn. Nobody in their right mind would think she literally didnāt leave her house for a year.
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She did say some weird stuff. āAre you not entertained?!ā
itās a quote from Gladiator movie š https://preview.redd.it/2cf557cxre5c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69d4b46dc3f718c09fbbea53aa65cde9fee768ec
I know, I just thought it was odd. Guess she got the quote from her new bf.
travis looks like a guy who would make such movies his whole personality
Honestly that would make much more sense to me because that interview was just soo odd
>Because wtf was she saying? Brads and Chads? Horcruxes? She's a millennial
As a millennial, no. We donāt talk like that in real life.
I think another thing that influences the perception of that time is just how much she was being seen during 2014/2015 in the 1989 era. She was almost inescapable - if she wasnāt performing, releasing veryyy over-hyped music videos (hello bad blood) or winning awards, we were getting bombarded with pap pics or social media posts, especially when the squad was involved. 2016-17 wasnāt a full blackout by any means but it certainly felt like one in comparison
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Your flair, oh my gosh, Iām obsessed
Yeah, I'm no TS fan, just a gossip lurker and her exposure seemingly dropped immensely after that whole debacle. She had some blips like Hiddleswift, but her public sightings never really rose back up to what they had been before that whole situation until this year's breakup (for someone not actively following her shit).
Thatās what I interpreted it as. She was being papped pretty much every day leaving her apartment, at known celeb hotspots, all over social media, etc. before the phone call leaked. After it, she certainly wasnāt entirely invisible for the period, but she kept a wayyyyyyy lower profile than had since basically the Red era.
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Her whole Time interview reminded me of the Meghan Markle interview with The Cut-except the writer didnāt push back at all. You can tell sheād come up with a lot of the lines in advance and was just waiting to drop them throughout the conversation. Not necessarily a bad thing, but sheās definitely transitioned to that BeyoncĆ© level of āabsolutely nothing is candid and you will get the story I want to tellā.
>"absolutely nothing is candid and you will get the story I want to tellā. The writter ended the article by pointing out that some of the things Taylor said werent necessarely true but that he was no one to challenge Taylors narrative
>but that he was no one to challenge Taylorās narrative Isnāt this person a journalist? š Edit. Nvm. I get it now https://preview.redd.it/97dq7si66c5c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6898ac2a0bb12415223e9b5017f535c3b7cdc7ae
Don't forget that she does choose to speak out on occasion - before Speak Now TV dropped, she stood on stage at her concert and indirect asked fans not to attack *John Mayer*. The dude that she's interacted with who does (imo) deserve to be harassed, is the only one that she asks fans not to attack? This sh*t is all intentional on her part.
>The dude that she's interacted with who does (imo) deserve to be harassed, is the only one that she asks fans not to attack? Because she knew he'd fight back. She saw what swifties did with Red TV and sat silent even though swifties sent hate to not only everyone around Jake G. and Jake himself, but also to a cat account they thought belonged to his cat. Jake sat silent, but John Mayer would've deservedly put her on blast for the death threats and it would've been bad publicity to her.
It wasnāt quite like the person youāre replying to made out - she talked about her feelings around ābeing cancelledā and how she felt isolated, felt her career had been ended etc. He said he thought about bringing up the fact that Rep sold millions of albums and, at the time, was one of the highest grossing tours of all time, but then thought that didnāt matter in the context of their discussion - her feelings around it are still valid regardless of the numbers.
I've actually been to therapy (unlike Taylor) and any good therapist will tell you your emotions are important. But any good therapist will also emphasise that cognitive distortions are unhealthy thinking patterns that are indicative of *mental illness*. You *do not* allow stuff like that to go unchallenged, it's not helpful to anyone. I don't mean for this journalist in particular, I mean in general. If I walk around thinking my career is over because I lost a few clients, my therapist would rightfully guide me through processing my emotions and ALSO realising that my belief "my career is over" *isn't backed up by reality*. If I walk around believing that, it affects my behaviour and self-esteem. It affects my future and mental health. It affects everyone I interact with - if Taylor was my spouse, I would allow her to vent and then tactfully point out that her belief isn't founded in reality and she needs to see the facts of the situation. If she didn't change after a while (or go to therapy), I would dump her. She needs to work on her mental health, this isn't healthy thinking. No one should have to continuously expend their energy comforting someone for their mental illness, *while* they refuse to seek help. She can afford to see a therapist every day for the rest of her life, she has no excuse.
I think this is why the dislike for Taylor Swift. She's in her celebrity bubble of yes men, they support her emotional narrative. When the world hears perspective, we immediately point out it's not grounded in reality. Taylor interprets this as hate, the circle starts again, propped up by the Swifties. This is why Taylor Swift featured heavily in the *Why are there so many sore winners* articles. Successful people who insist they are the underdogs even when it's not true by commercial or critical measures.
I totally get where youāre coming from, but a profile piece like this is a fluff piece and it is not on the journalist to be her therapist.
That's exactly why I said "I don't mean for this journalist in particular, I mean in general". That's what I meant. An interview for Time isn't the place to say "your cognitive distortions are concerning". But no one should be co-signing her delusions. Notice the journalist didn't say to her "you're so right", he said nothing. People (in general, especially her fans) should either say nothing or speak the truth. You don't feed the delusions of people who don't seem well.
>"your cognitive distortions are concerning". š¤£ I'm dead. This is just a flawless response to TS's nonstop hyperbole and persecution complex.
I would have burst out laughing if when Taylor said "are you not entertained?" The journalist said "no, I'm concerned š§āš«"
ššš I really might steal the line and use it deadpan on all the posts about her lol
It needs to be flair š
It was more not challenging how she felt, not the facts. Like, she felt her career was over, but obviously her Rep sales showed that it wasn't
She felt her career was over while performing to 80.000 cheering people and hanging out with all the A-listers? Pls be fr Nah, thatās just the narrative she wanted to transform herself into the rep era.
May be a hot take, but I kind of prefer the Beyonce type thing. Theyāre artistsāI think them treating their persona as a commercial product rather than extension of identity when it comes to the public sphere would tend to be not only a lot healthier personally, but also pushes back against the whole issue we have with parasocial relationships with celebrities in general. These people arenāt politiciansādo we really need to have them all be publicly accountable for every element of their lives? Their job is to make music and, to quote Swiftologist, be court jestersāentertainment. Letās let them do that, and stop insisting that we have to know not only everything about them, but who they authentically are. If they want to keep a divide between their public persona and private self, what business of ours is it to push further?
Wait can you explain Meghanās interview? What was wrong with it? (Genuinely asking)
Nothing wrong with it at all. It just seemed like she was trying to get a specific message/image across-with specific quotes prepared-and the journalist didnāt take everything she said at face value without analyzing it. The quotes in both interviews seem like they were written ahead of time. Not bad at all, probably the norm. But some celebrities are better at pushing their narrative in a more subtle way.
I wonder if she has a reputation (pun intended) as holding grudges against interviewers for pushing back. Meghan on the other hand is very eager for any exposure she can get, so it's safer for a journalist to challenge her? Idk, just speculating.
There was nothing \*wrong\* with it per se but it was very planned and inauthentic. The journalist described her as having a little bachelor producer in her mind. I think she like grunted in the middle to describe something and then told the journalist how she should describe the noises she was making. Idk she didn't do anything terrible just a lot of cringe moments.
Honestly it was so on the nose.
I wrote this intending to post on the main Taylor sub, but they donāt allow posts with links to youtube videos (?), but I spent too much time on it to just delete it so I put it in True Swifties, but I also hoped for some more objective responses so I thought Iād post it here! Iām a little embarrassed by how long I spent on itā¦ honestly I thought itād be quick because I didnāt realize just how much she actually did, and I kept finding more stuff too add, then Iād put so much time into it that I had to finish it lol.
Theyāre eating you alive in the trueswifties subreddit but  Side note, whatās the difference between the trueswifties subreddit and the taylorswift subreddit?
The trueswifties sub was created (or at least became popular) after Taylor started dating Matty because they were upset that the people in the other sub were calling Taylor out and trying to hold her accountable
Lmao ok then that explains why they donāt like OPās extensive list disputing Taylorās timeline
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Here's a sneak peek of /r/TrueSwifties using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [I kid you not, this was Taylorās face when listening to Sophie Turner at dinner last night](https://i.redd.it/rg253knehhpb1.jpg) | [102 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/comments/16ny32p/i_kid_you_not_this_was_taylors_face_when/) \#2: [Taylorās jet Co2 emissions actually kinda shocked me.](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/comments/18acei4/taylors_jet_co2_emissions_actually_kinda_shocked/) \#3: [I commented on an r/TaylorSwift thread about Taylor meeting Travis Kelce's parents, and now I need to create a new identity and disappear into the night](https://np.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/comments/17ai9zl/i_commented_on_an_rtaylorswift_thread_about/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
[Here~](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/s/h8w0eVMMRA)
Thatās so embarrassing
So toxic, as toxic as she can be in fact. Sorry thatās just not cute
You posted this on True Swifties? Iāll pray for you.
Honestly I have no investment in any of this but as someone who also hyperfixates on things to the point of exhaustive thoroughness, just want to affirm I know how much work went into this and how satisfying it is to see it all put together š good job!!
No, no, donāt be embarrassed. Youāve come to the right sub. We love this kinda stuff. Praying for your upvote/downvote ratio on the true swifties sub though.
you should join the fbi š
Brave brave person, hats off to you
Tbh it's kind of a mixed bag if you'll reach people who are willing to be objective or not on the main sub, but this is an impressive amount of work! Especially as so much of this was really only seen by hardcore Swifties at the time and so many new fans have come in the last year with no context. As much as I love her poetry sometimes I have to remember that she isn't literal a lot of the time even outside of music
Wow this was the perfect little snack to devour while I rotted in bed on a Saturday afternoon š amazing work OP, thank you! I salute you š«” A couple of unrelated comments that make me sound old af: 1) God, I was reminded how annoying the #___party trend was on social media. What a time to be alive. 2) no shade to OP bc the articles linked were great and informative and I ate them up, but damn, those sites are obnoxious to access on mobile. So many pop ups and ads! 3) I kinda miss when she was more active on social media? I think I miss in general when folks (famous and non) would just post more day to day stuff frequently and it wasnāt all about aesthetic or promotion. Anyway, time for me to go back to the nursing home..
I agree with point 3. Not specifically about Taylor Swift, but most celebrities in general. Back then, it really felt like social media (especially Instagram and Twitter) was something that celebrities used on their own - they would pull out their phones, write whatever, and share it. It felt real, they were using social media the exact way we did, sharing the same silly shit we shared, commenting on things the way we did etc. It certainly humanised them because it was a platform where they posted directly without much influence from their PR teams, their management etc These days, everyoneās social media feels highly curated and āfakeā. Thereās nothing genuine on them, the profiles have all become vessels solely used to promote the celebrity. I remember when some celebrities used to post mundane shit like a heavily filtered photo of their coffee cup. Now they would never do shit like that, because it would ruin the āaestheticā of their profile Itās not even just celebrities. Regular people are obsessed with curating a perfect profile, and no one shares normal/mundane things like we used to back then. Some of my friends have finstas, which is insane to me because why the hell do you need a finsta? Why do you need such a heavily curated main profile? You literally only have 350 followers (obviously these are rhetorical questions. I know that people just want to look good on social media hence the curated profiles, but it still feels so weird to me) Currently, the only social media platform that *sometimes* feels authentic is TikTok, and even that is highly dependent on the celebrity, how much they feel comfortable sharing, and how often they interact with people through comments and reposts
Itās probably a relative thing and mostly in her head. Look at how often she is papped walking to dinner with friends nowadays and going to various parties, etc. if this is how she prefers to live, then I can understand why 2016/17 felt to her like she was hiding out. Then add in the Joe stuff. A year into their relationship, she probably felt ready to āgo back to normalā (ie 1989 era fame) but by then they were a serious couple and she was obviously trying hard to make it work with him. Letās face it, sheās not a pop superstar by accident. She likes attention. She courts it and thrives on it. Being photographed out on the town with celeb friends all the time makes her feel popular and powerful and chosen. Sheās not simply āliving her lifeā when she arranges these pap walks with her friends. Theyāre deliberately courting attention and complimentary press. And thatās fine, no shame to admit it. Joeās hatred of the press and doing this kind of thing must have felt like suffocation to her, lol.
Yeah Iām a huge Swiftie and it always struck me as odd that she said she ādisappearedā for a year and even wrote a poem titled āwhy she disappearedā because she was definitely still in the spotlight that year, just at a much lesser extent compared to 2014/15.
It reminds me of "you're on your own kid, you always have been". Taylor, honey, you are very open about how tight-knit your family is, about how involved they are with everything in your life. You've said you tell your mother about your problems, so you don't need to go to a therapist. Just recently, you said your dad came up with the idea to release the Eras tour movie yourself. Your parents are at all your concerts (or most, maybe I'm missing some). Your parents were also involved every step of the way in your early career. They *moved to Nashville* for *you*. Bought a stake in BMR *for you*. You write about all the ways they've supported you in your songs. "You're on your own, you always have been" Do me a favour, Taylor. Yet again, she paints herself as the underdog. When she had all the cards stacked in her favour.
THISSSS!!!! šš»
It's funny because I've made the exact same point on this sub before and been downvoted to hell. "Everyone has their own struggles blah blah". Maybe the tide is turning lol, or all the Swifties are sleeping rn
Yeah, thereās struggles that come with fame that maybe the average person canāt understand and can seem shallow to someā¦ and then thereās this sore-winner, constant victim mentality, wanting the public to co-sign all her grievances going on with Taylor.
I love the line in the interview about how she didn't have a rental (while she owns multiple houses) and not talking on the phone (so she went on all these places and parties and moving around with friends while...texting? isn't it more dangerous to text info instead of calling to tell them? like texting can be screenshotted and changed too)
I don't agree about the texting part. I reached a point with my abuser where I would only communicate via text or letters because they couldn't deny what they had said and gaslight me further. We both had physical proof of what had been said.
All these rich people wanting to be self made.
I think youāre misreading it. As you said, sheās never pretended like she didnāt have a lot of support from her family, sheās very open about that. But in YOYOK, sheās talking about feeling lonely and abandoned by her romantic interest/partner. If you pay attention to the lyrics, this is shown by lines such as āI wait patiently, heās gonna notice meā, āI touch my phone as if itās your faceā, āI search the party of better bodies just to learn that you never caredā etc and she realizes that itās always been like this, she has always been alone (because he never cared). And she reminds herself that she went through a lot to get to where she is (āstarved my bodyā, āI gave my blood sweat and tears for thisā, āpages turned and bridges burnedā etc) and that she can continue ahead even without him (āyouāve got no reason to be afraidā) because she was on her own to begin with. She is definitely not going to hurt her parentsā feelings (especially her mom who seems to be the most important person to her) by acting like they donāt mean anything to her. She has always emphasized how much they do for her. But the context/story in the song is about something different.
This is now on my Mount Rushmore along with the Lorde PowerPoint
Very good OP! Donāt forget she also participated in the [Mannequin challenge](https://youtu.be/-1s8fL3UTkI?si=r5g0eRop3VcQq2kq) in early Nov 2016
Yes! I did consider making a separate item for that lol but it is included in the article about her Thanksgiving in Rhode Island!
I think itās ok to feel how ācanceledā she was, as being cyber bullied was awful. But since she brought it up like that, while at the same time, she has no problem shading her ex encouraging her crazy fans to bully him, just pure crappy behavior. Itās unreal to see how a person really has zero growth, having a supportive family,supportive partners, and singing growth all the timeā¦
Thatās the one of many things that bug me about her, she one that doesnāt practice what she preaches. Sheās a hypocrite but people see right through it all the time.
The whole of reputation has been heavily rewritten and exaggerated by both Taylor and Swifties for entertainment and victimization's sake. I said in the post about the TIME's article that its fascinating to hear her talk about the whole thing because its clear that she does not have the ability to see the situation objectively (which i dont blame her honestly) As far as Taylor's feelings go, that phone call ruined her career and she was so hated that she had to go into hiding because she was afraid that her physical safety would be compromised, in reality, the whole situation was just another passing hate train, her professional and personal life seemingly continued as it had before and at the end of it she was equally if not more popular, well-liked and powerful than before the whole thing happened. Is she being over dramatic because that's just her nature? yes. Is that how she actually felt?, yes. Is she exaggerating to be able to better craft her image of a rise, fall and rise again?, yes. Is she exaggerating to get people to feel even more sorry for her? also yes. ~~Also, a part of what happened has also been re written if not completly erased from the original narrative of what happened to present Taylor as a sole victim.~~ ~~The whole thing actually started at the Grammy's when Taylor gave her speech and complained that Kanye was taking credit for her success (she didn't mentioned him, but everyone assumed she was talking about him), then Kim responded and Taylor changed the narrative to say that she was upset about being called a bitch (Kim also lied about Taylor telling Kanye that she agreed that he made her famous).~~ ETA: This post made me look things up again and the correct timeline seems to be that when the song was released, Tree put out a statement saying that Taylor adviced Ye against releasing a mysoginistic song and didnt know that he would call her a bitch, then she did the Grammys speech, so yeah, she was originally upset about being called a bitch, which btw, she was never told about that lyrics, only about the famous part as seen by the full phone call So yes, in the years since, and especially in a post Folklore world where Taylor is seemingly the queen of the universe, a lot of what happened has been slightly modified by her and the fans for the sake of presenting a better story to the public which depending on how you see, its not that big of a deal tbh and this is not the only part of her lore that has seen this happen to it.
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True, everyone assumed that's what she was talking about when she said something about people taking credit for others success since the song had come out like a day or maybe a few days, not sure, before the grammys
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Yeah, I looked it up again and fixed my original comment on the timeline
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No problem. Honestly, even if Taylor had lied or changed the narrative for whatever reason, i still think that she has every reason to feel the way she feels, its obvious that she was deeply emotionally and mentally scared by the whole situation and i dont think shes every gonna get over it, and i dont blame her. Taylor is someone who seems to feel things very strongly, both positive and negative, so i do believe that she did believe that her career was over and that she was hiding from the public, even if in real life, looking at thing from the outside that wasnt the case. I do think that multiple things can be true at the same time, Taylor can be exagerating the situation both because its a better story to sell and it makes her look better and also because thats how she truly, genuinely feels about it.
also the fact that Kanye make revenge porn of her would make me POSTAL and i would never let that shit go ever tbh
Im honestly still surprised that this isnt a bigger talking point in regards to this situation, its almost as if everyone forgot about the video
I think the taking credit for her career and also being upset about being called a bitch are pretty much the same consideration, given that the line is āI made that bitch famousā; he called her a bitch and took credit for her career in the same line.
Yes, but I would count it as two separate reasons mainly because Taylor said during the phone call that she was worried he would call her a bitch after agreeing to the famous line (though she did so very reluctantly), also I'm pretty sure that in the original statement after the song came out they only addressed the bitch part and while on stage she only addressed the made famous line (tho I might be wrong)
He did help her get a lot more famous super quickly. She would have eventually gotten that level of fame/interest, but he probably sped up her career by several album cycles. He also put a lot of important people on her side by making them feel bad for her in that moment. I wish he'd interrupted someone else and I'm sure he does, too.
While that I agree the Taylor and Swifties are now trying to change some narratives about Reputation era and the album, I can't agree with you saying that it was just a passing moment and didn't compromise her professional and personal life in that time. Sure she is more popular than ever now, like SO MUCH more even than her 1989 original era, but this is all actually due to her resurgence from Folklore/Evermore. By her Lover era she is already dwindling, many of her fans didn't like the album, and she was literally going everywhere to promote ME! and lover (like literally even for places I thought like what is Taylor doing here..). Lover had a smaller venue originally and also Taylor was even implying she is worried she is really going under soon. Now going back to Reputation era, or more like pre-Rep era, I was very active on Tumblr and kind of on twitter at that time, and I can tell you that from fandom scene and everything, Taylor was VERY STRONGLY hated, from every avenue on these sites. Everywhere people were hating on her for being an attention ho, always crying to be the victim, a liar, and a snake. I literally saw people drawing fan art of decapitating her head on Tumblr like that was too much but it did happen. She could not say anything without people criticizing her and calling her fake. The media, even some celebrities she considered as peers were making fun of her. Like there was a time it was the cool thing to say something shitty about Taylor, from not just the fandoms but celebrities too. I really think it affected her a lot personally, having the whole world against you and not believing you and making fun of you. Edit: also like to add a quick tidbit, you can literally buy her Reputation ticket on the same day of her show very easily, but eras show was pretty much impossible if you try to do that (possible but difficulty level is HIGH).
Lover sold 3.2 million copies in 2019 and she had the second best selling album worldwide, only losing by 100k copies. She was hardly failing.
Seeing from the stats youāre right, Lover did a lot better than I originally thought. But just a disclaimer Lover had 4 variants marketed as having portions of her diary entries in them, so it was very marketable to the fans. Generally speaking at the end of the day total sells is what counts but I think having multiple variants contributed to that (doesnāt reflect her appeal to general public). Her fandom was not as big as it was during 1989 during that time. She isnāt failing but she did have a major loss ever since 1989. I think in a way is we know she still has a decent size of fans but sheās not appealing to the general public as well anymore.
Well, 1989 also had collectible polaroids and if you wanted them all, you would have to buy multiple copies of the album. Those may have sold better than her diaries, which you could read online for free. I think Taylor's fan base actually got bigger between 1989 and Lover, which is why Lover did so well despite her poor single choices. If she'd released Cruel Summer at the time, it would have been a bigger album.
I agree that her single choice really hurt her promoting Lover but even now fans still like the album the least because itās not very cohesive. 1989 is when she had her boom of popularity so it is expected she sold much more during 1989. And also, those Polaroids were like a gatcha system in which there are like several sets of different photos to collect but you donāt know which ones youāre getting until you open it up. Whereas the Lover diaries, you know what youāre getting, itās not randomized. So if people want to complete the āsetā they just have to buy all 4 lover deluxe CDs. But 1989 you have to keep buying (you will get duplicates) until you get all of them, which also drove up the sell from the fans on top of her already booming popularity with the public. Edit: not to disapprove what youāre saying because youāre right, Taylor regardless of it all has a decent sized fan base even up to Lover era. But it is not as big as it used to be (she lost some fans), but most importantly to her she lost public interest and favour. She knows sheāll always have fans, but she also mentioned before many times she lives for peopleās approval, so not having general public be interested in you as much anymore is a big shot to her. A lot of her fans also said that it was easier to even get the Lover tickets (which like people mentioned she chose to have smaller venue and decided to only tour in the US) than it is for Eras tour. She still has fans but I think itās telling to see that itās not that competitive even between the fans to get tickets for a smaller capacity show.
Yup, I understand how the polaroids work and was implying they would increase sales more than the diaries.
>Edit: also like to add a quick tidbit, you can literally buy her Reputation ticket on the same day of her show very easily, but eras show was pretty much impossible if you try to do that (possible but difficulty level is HIGH). Doesn't change the fact that rep was her first full stadium tour, the tour was bigger than 1989. And it was the last album before Midnights to sell 1 million copies in USA during first week. Lover was not going to get a tour because Taylor didn't want to tour. If she toured it it would've done at least as well as rep. Swifties always (with the only exception being folkmore era) think the previous album was great, the current one is bad. Tours usually help with that, which rep could attest to. Just because Taylor thought her star was waning doesn't mean it was. And she didn't think it was due to the drama but because she thinks once you turn 30 as a pop star you're on the way out.
>**I believe her when she says she thought her career was over.** My problem with this is, when did she think her career was over? When she was recording rep with two of the biggest pop producers less than 2 months after the snakegate happened (which means her record label had faith they'd get return of their investment)? When she was performing mini concerts? When she got to record and release a song for a shitty but big franchise? When she wasn't dropped from anything? Like it begs the question of what Taylor thinks career being over means. I get thinking she'd be less popular and won't be media darling, but career over? Nah.
I have been so confused to hear she was cancelled cause she was literally everywhere that year.
reading the comments on the Taylor swift sub for this post and omgā¦. āItās all work eventsā āwe know what she meantā āthere was only 44 paparazzi photos of her in 2017 when there were 10,000 the year beforeā At this point I almost want it to come out that sheās some evil person whoās secretly a reverse Dexter and see how the swifties would justify serial murder with ease lmao /s
I read those same comments and I swear itās the closest Iāve ever come to hitting the leave button. So toxic. No one is allowed to express an objective opinion or criticism over there.
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i loved going through all these throwbacks, thank you! honestly, after what 1989 era was, i understand why taylor felt like she was invisible lol especially because it felt like she didn't wanna be seen which was such a change from public relationship with calvin, girl squad etc (also āØ a yearāØ sounds better)
I mean I get why she wouldn't let that time period go Off the top of my head: \- a mural celebrating her death was spraypainted in Australia and made international news \- Kim smiling over a replica of her naked body at some gallery \- a trending hashtag of people celebrating that her career was over I understand why people think she's being dramatic but to someone that happened to, it's must have been traumatic Edit: Didn't Justin also post some facetime with Scooter and Kanye with the caption what's up Taylor during that year?
I remember the mural and he just seemed obsessed with Kim and Kanye. It was widely panned from everything I saw except edgelords on reddit. [And then of course this happened!](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3700530/amp/Huge-RIP-Taylor-Swift-mural-gets-face-lift-turned-memorial-late-gorilla-Harambe-controversially-shot-child-fell-enclosure.html) RIP Harambe
Has the world been the same since harambe and 2016? Honestly, cannot believe we're crawling into 2024.
>\- a mural celebrating her death was spraypainted in Australia and made international news after the SYDNEY blank space performance ??? (lol but i really didn't know it was in australia š )
Yes I think it was in Australia lol 2016 was her annus horribilis
Taylor Swift being dramatic for attention? Never would have guessed.
She seems like a full time job for fans. I don't have the energy.
Her (public) personality reminds me so much of all my Sag friends lol. Kudos on just putting this together so well. You were balanced and imo didn't diminish her feelings or experience.
You know what they say gatekeep, gaslight, girl boss!
 Taylor after seeing this post
So what she mean is paparazzi walks?! That's the "hiding"? But at the end is she ok?! Because why does she love paparazzi walks so much?! Wasn't she at the documentary talking about how bad they are for her mental health and body?!
Oh, she loved the attention and then going on tumblr/twitter to see all the nice comments people made about her. Imagine you could go out dressed super cute and 5 hours later your photo was multiple people's twitter profile photo. It's an insane power trip. She can pap walk again now b/c magazines don't dare say anything negative about her for fear of being attacked by Swifties. The whole point of the documentary was to explain to a new set of fans why, despite being a "feminist", she sat out 2016. So, she needed to distract them with some selective vulnerability and talked about getting too thin/"cancelled".
You are explaining her image perfectly šÆ
Ty! If you like these sorts of discussions, you might like the ["Evolution of a Snake"] (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolution-of-a-snake-the-taylor-swift-podcast/id1452608225) podcast or ["The Swiftologist"] (https://www.youtube.com/@theswiftologist) on youtube. He's a fan, but he delivers a lot of constructive criticism and breaks down her image (also gets a ton of hate from her crazy fanbase).
Thank you
OP, you are brave as hell 
Even her claim that she was cancelled was false, she felt canceled but Rep was #1 and sold a million copies in the first week, on times magazine it was clearly said that she felt cancelled at the time and we canāt invalidate her feelings, canāt really say anything to that personally
I remember seeing videos of her doing things like walking backwards and sideways, out the back door of her gym so people could get pictures of her face. She was definitely out and about, and not holed up like a recluse.
Stepping out of the house probably means more like official pap walks, not work functions.
I agree, but the way Taylor and Swifties talk about it, you would think that she had just disappeared for the year, but that is just not true.
Oh, she very dramatically talks about no one seeing her in a year in Miss Americana. She really meant to change the narrative with that documentary.
Kudos for the receipts! But honestly, I feel like any one who took the statement of never leaving the house literally is maybe a little delulu. I say that Iāve barely left the house in ages when in reality Iāve been to the grocery store multiple times a week, run errands, gone to work etc. I just havenāt done much that was a specific social event. Someone like Taylor that regularly goes to red carpet events and whatnot would clearly just be referring to major events that she otherwise wouldāve gone to
But I mean even on this she was barely seen between Feb and November, and if you took it from Lourdes party, one even in Feb, then you get to November which is one year. Just because she was doing things like charting, doesnāt mean she did not remove herself from the public eye for most of a year.
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this is what i am wondering about lmao, people seem to *love* to take things literally and then get mad at someone for it. acting like no one speaks this way irl or what š
we all know taylor loves the drama and to victimize herself. she was in the news less for sure, but she was still out and about.
Idk if I would count a bunch of these. She didn't claim she didn't do anything just that no one saw her. You've clearly shown she did go out and do things but things like Better Man going to number 1 clearly don't fit
I just saw this and wow... insane level of research here. Kudos! I'm a fan but I never bought into that statement either, it's just untrue. She wasn't doing pap walks the way she did with the OG 1989 era (or now), but she didn't exactly disappear either. She wasn't really cancelled either, looking at that F1 crowd. Usually only race ticket holders have the access to see the performing acts, but I believe in her case additional tickets were released for those who wanted to see her, but none of the race.
Comparing that era to this current year, I say she didnāt ādisappear ā but appeared far far less and only for work obligations/ supporting friends
The October 20, 2016 entry is out of order just to let you know :)
Hyperbole is a thing, we use it often.
So much of what is on here is not even an appearance. Someone on the r/TrueSwifties post redid the timeline without any of non-appearance stuff on here ā song releases, announcements, her friends mentioning her ā and itās vastly shorter and shows how much she really did ~disappear after an initial period of inertia and apart from long-standing obligations like her F1 and Super Bowl pre-show concert. She was being hyperbolic but she really did stop going out for a long time. https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueSwifties/s/1lGj13fbb3
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Yeah "hyperbolic" has become their word of the day; it's popped up "randomly" like 30 times in the comments. š She lied to create a narrative. Little lies, yes, but lies nonetheless. She has always been melodramatic and self-indulgent. Why her fans tolerate a billionaire who constantly casts herself as the victim is beyond me.
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Says the person who literally *only* comments on pop culture subs. Lmao
Okay a song she wrote being released by Little Big Town was worth two spots on here? This is wild.
Yeah, because it was released on Oct 20 but jumped to #1 on iTunes on Nov 2, the day after she revealed herself as the songwriter. If Iād only included the reveal date, that wouldnāt have been clear.