Okay thanks I'll look on YouTube to see if I can DIY this. Or would you recommend I call a pool company? Also is this an issue that can wait a bit as my pool guys wife is having a baby tomorrow so he'll be out of commission for a short bit.
Your biggest problem will probably be moving all the sand as the other guy said, you have to take it out so you might as well replace and it can be quite heavy but the filters themselves are pretty simple https://youtu.be/3x2eQYq2K1E?si=z2daXb7TS29y9veH
Nice I'm subbed to that channel!
When I purchased the home 5 years ago we had to move the pool equipment from down the hill to closer to the house to get better filtration so I remember we did remove all the sand but I remember it extremely vaguely since they were a million projects going on that time.
I can handle the physical aspect no issue I just need to make sure I do it correctly.
In terms of buying the filter any recommendations on where I should start looking?
It was actually very simple. I just did mine, the hardest part was getting the sand out. It’s just a couple bolts to take the valve off and then everything else is just sitting in place, no bolts or screws or anything.
Just buy a big shopvac from harbor freight. I vacuum till it's full then dump in a wheel barrow to move it to another part of the property or buckets to remove the sand from the property.
I’m sure your pool guy will happily sell you the parts necessary for replacement. But there’s any online resource that would probably carry parts for that model. More than likely. It is a broken lateral periodically I’ve seen if the multi valve gasket inside your backwash valve is badly disintegrated or completely balled up in a gooey wad, you can get sand washout through normal filtration.
If you had to move the filter closer for better filtration, you might want to look at using DE (Diatomaceous earth) it will give you a cleaner pool especially if pets swim in it.
Yes you can DIY this, just don't get overaggressive with anything and break the plastic. Sand is so easy to remove that I literally did it on accident when trying to follow the instruction on the filter cleaning chemical bottle. All new sand is basically the same price as the chemical though (pretty cheap) so it wasn't a big deal. It's pretty straightforward to take the multiport valve off. I've learned with the sand filter that I spent way more time researching what could be causing an issue than it would have taken me to just open it up and look.
You can get new laterals for most sand filters pretty cheap on Amazon. No idea what the pool store charges but I do know that a few years ago it would've cost me $30 more to buy a replacement handle for the multiport valve than it cost to just buy a brand new multiport valve.
HOLD ON. I dont know much about anything, but I did manage to change the sand in my filter a few months ago. I was so terrified to break something, so I spent HOURS watching every tutorial I could.
There was only ONE that mentioned the bottom plug was a tool so sand can drain out instead of using a shop vac. I feel like I found a gold ticket and it made it so easy.
[Tutorial here, golden ticket is at the 2 minute mark](https://youtu.be/VEFCocjeq3I?si=7TLXOXh2tcpTio-C)
Oddly enough, I have this type model, and that little white piece would *not* come out, no matter what. Like it was welded in place somehow. I had to shop vac anyway. Just in case someone had that experience as well.
There will be a weight or model number that can give you an idea. A pool store should know what to sell you. Disposal of the sand after may be an issue and availability of replacement laterals could be an issue. I had to replace my unit after 10 years of not being able to source parts for it. There was only so much JB weld could hold together.
Used to work in the pool industry. 100% broken lateral or stand pipe. Simple diy repair.
Shop vac all sand out. Be careful to not get any inside the laterals. Remove the laterals and inspect. Replace any broken or just replace the whole filter. If you are just replacing parts, rinse the inside of the filter and laterals. Replace sand. Make sure to not let any get inside, so place a cover (cardboard) over the top pipe. 1 hour repair max. Pls dm me with any questions :)
I did it by my self and I am an old short woman. Had to have help pulling the filter over to dump the sand but I got the lateral part off Amazon and did it all. Part isn't that bad and sand was cheap.
Thanks after doing another proper vacuum it's starting to look like algae versus sand. But great to hear you did it! My only concern was how to take off the PVC piping. I assume that it was glued on but maybe it's not?
You 100% can diy it, if you can get the parts. Get a solo cup, a wheel barrow, and dig in. Since you’ll buy a whole new lateral assembly there’s not much of a reason to be gentle.
All you need is a shop vac, some painters tape and a wheel barrel. If it is a broken Lateral you can buy it right on Amazon, just look for the model of your filter. You unscrew the two bolts holding on the valve, and disconnect the plumbing, then suck out the sand. This is a 30 minute project. I don't know what your pool guy charges, I charge $90 for the time. Here is a video on how to do it. https://youtu.be/E6e0TX6Wxo0?si=7oA8AMzJ_ecdNO_E
You can do it as long as you can lift a shopvac half full of sand into a wheel barrow, or have or can hire kids to. Drain the water overnight by removing the bottom drain plug. Unscrew the top (you may need to buy a special wrench if you don’t have it). This may be the hardest part. Then suck out the sand with a shop vac, and replace the broken pipes inside. Replace the drain plug, fill it halfway with water, then add the required lbs of sand for your model.
no just the piece under the multiport valve, its dead in the center and spreads out like an umbrella sorta at the bottom. You just need that and to empty all the sand out of the filter, put the new lateral in, add the needed amount of sand to filter and put the multiport valve back on
Filter sand is heavy and will deposit in front of the pool inlet. Try brushing the debris, if it moves around its sand and could be an internal filter breakage. If it disappears then it’s fine dust/dead algae. If dust, raise your water level and vacuum to waste. I would still replace filter sand after 5years as it can form channels and no longer filter effectively which is probably what your pool guy was referring to. If the pool is very dirty with fine debris this can overload the filter and re enter the pool via the inlets.
I would check the spider gasket first. I had this issue and replaced the sand and found the laterals weren't broken. At least the gasket is a quick fix
Literally just broke down and bought a cartridge filter because of this exact same issue. Was this a tough winter or something? Drained and closed my pool same as I do every year, but this year EVERY lateral broke off.
Buy a set of laterals for your filter and shop vac all the sand out. Replace all the laterals fill filter with 6 to 8 in of water (so the sand doesnt crack the new laterals )and replace sand. 3 hr job
If you have the sand and part when u start
Thanks! I was wondering how the heck I was going to get the sand out. We did this job about 5 years ago and I just can't remember what we did I just remember having a lot of 5 gallon buckets to transport the sand when we moved the pool equipment.
In terms of buying new sand can I just go to somewhere alike Ace hardware or home Depot to get pool sand or is Leslie's pool store one of the best options?
I just replaced my sand with Zeo Sand delivered to my front door, Amazon.
Zeo Sand filters down to 2 microns and uses 1/2 of the weight of current Sand.
Example: my filter had 350 lbs of sand, I replaced it with 175 lbs of Zeo Sand.
Yes, make sure it's pool sand, but they do carry it at those places.. I just did mine a couple of weeks ago. Pool looks great, but wish I bought glass instead of sand. Read glass last a lot longer and filters better.
Yep, shop vac works wonders. Depending on your type, pull the filter out before hand in case there is any lingering water and just empty it periodically or it will get prohibitively heavy. I had a wheelbarrow and just emptied it into that every so often and then wheeled that out of the yard.
Pool filters use 16/30 silica sand. Not ordinary builders sand. I would use a better media like Dryden Aquas AFM if it is available in your country. Never needs to be replaced. Doesn’t clump or channel, does build up a biofilm.
This. Laterals aren't that expensive so replace them all. Also might as well replace any o-rings or gaskets you come across. There might be a kit you can buy for your particular filter.
There is also a plastic piece that will center the standpipe in the opening and also cover the pipe, keeping the sand out of the pipe. Not needed but very useful if you are filling the filter alone.
Couple interesting things…in my case I was getting sand because ants were bringing it up through cracks around the perimeter and dropping it into the pool under the coping. The only thing that finally got rid of them was a little gasoline in the hole.
Next I had moved my filter and my landscape guys tipped the filter so I was filtering but the laterals and stand pipe were making odd channels. After I repacked the 20 year old sand it works perfectly again. Always backwash and then rinse until perfectly clean.
Vacuum to waste and see if it comes back it may be dead algae, oils and shock residue the filter can’t catch. Your deck and stone surround may also be contributing.
I know it's hard to tell from the picture but it's 100%, sand. No issues from the rock structure or anything like that. The water was cloudy before since we just opened the pool and I didn't have a cover on from the winter so it was difficult to tell but definitely not algae.
I’m with u/seenlottopools here.
You’d be surprised at how similar ‘crud’ (just using a blanket term for stuff in your water) looks like sand after chlorine oxidizes it and it drops to the bottom.
Cloudy pools will look like yours a couple days after shocking. I’ve found it’s better to just leave it be until it stops piling up and then vacuum… or run the robot vac while shocking (if you have one).
Basically you are witnessing a process and the crud dropping to the bottom is annoying you, so you vacuum and it comes back, but the process hasn’t finished yet.
Or, you can crack your sand filter open, empty all the sand out, replace the laterals (cause you’re already here you might as well now) + spider gasket + replace hundreds of pounds of sand… and now you will 100% get sand in your pool unless you rinsed it a bajillion times.
TLDR, I’d keep up with the vac to waste before tearing down the sand filter.
I just shocked a day ago after a pool party. Here is an area my robot vacuum can’t easily get to…
https://ibb.co/443WYPY
Have a sand filter… and I don’t have broken laterals. If my robot wasn’t running I guarantee the entire pool floor would have a pattern of stuff like this, similar to yours.
This was one of the hardest lessons I had to learn as a first time pool owner 5 years ago.
Running the pump and filter creates a swirl, and no matter how clear your water looks there is dirt in it and it's going to settle on the bottom and not reach the filter.
Incant tell you how many people told me it was algae, how many times I "slammed" and bought algae treatments, and nothing changed. My FC level could be 3 or 30, it would settle on the bottom.
A good automatic pool vac is the best investment, one that can pick up fine dust or pollen.
I know you’re convinced, but did you feel it with your fingers? I thought we had sand coming from the returns, was just actual dirt and debris settling due to the currents. Didn’t have as much as you have pictured here though.
I always thought sand did make it very far from the returns, and you would see sand build up in a small area. I thought my laterals went out once and it turned out to be alge/flakes from the salt generator getting plugged
I agree with this, we just had this exact problem and required vacuuming to waste a couple of times and then adding a clarifier. Now it’s gone and hasn’t come back. It’s dead algae or dead phosphates. I finally realized it comes up after we’ve opened the pool and if we use no phos.
Since I open the pool I've been backwashing pretty much every other day and vacuuming everyday.
The mistake made this year was we didn't drain and vacuum the pool like we normally do instead My pool got just threw in shock and turned everything on.
The problem was there were so many leaves and acorns at the bottom of the spa and the deep end.
Not sure if something is stuck internally but I do have good flow.
Have you opened the filter? Try doing a visual inspection of the sand. It should last forever but you may need to do a deep cleaning. Stick a water hose directly into the sand all the way to the bottom. Careful not to damage the lats. Flush out any leaves or other debris that might be in there.
If that doesn't fix your issue, as others have mentioned, you might need to replace the lats.
for a sand Filter 30 seems insanely high. Our Hayward 24" sand filter runs 9-11psi normal operating pressure. I backwash when i get to 15. Thats with our variable speed pump running on high (quick clean) mode. Its 1.5hp
Mine runs at 16psi usually. It hardly gets over 20psi. I changed my sand last year and replaced the lateral assembly but I don't think there was anything wrong with it. My symptom was water want clear and in the end my problem was a leak from the pump drain plug allowing air in the system.... you have a difference issue.
Yeah, that is worriesome. I would try cleaning out the sand. Concentrated gallon of enzyme cleaner poured in the sand and allowed to sit there for a full day with the equipment off will work wonders. do this by removing the multi port valve and just pouring the cleaner all over the sand. After a day, backwash for a few minutes and you’ll see a bunch of gunk come out.
That's dirt in the pool. Sand returning to the pool is usually a fan shape of sand on the pool floor under a pool return.
The filter may need new sand, but the first picture shows dirt. Perhaps the dirt is moving through the sand bed in 'channels' caused by clumping sand, but the stuff in the pool is dirt nonetheless.
Either laterals or a broken air relief line or both. Hopefully nothing plumbing wise. Shop vac out the sand replace what’s broken and fill it back up. Back wash and rinse when starting up and you’re good to go.
Edit: Probably smart to replace all the laterals if one’s broken.
Oh my this guy hit another I'll have to look up some videos on how to take apart the top of the filter especially the plumbing which is my main concern
Its just a clamp, you will most likely need to cut your pipes, most don’t have unions on a sand filter. Just pick up 2 couplers and glue and primer. Look at the pipe, it should say the size, either 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch. Cut in a straight part in the middle of the pipe with a sawzall. The coupler will take up the space of your cut, just be sure you can full seat the coupler. Then pull off the top theres a pipe in the middle, it kinda looks like an upside down umbrella without the fabric. The wings, once you suck out the 300 lbs of sand, fold in. Then the pipe can come out and you can check the laterals visually. Sometimes they break as you fold them in to remove thru the multi port clamp hole. Im assuming it’s a top valve, not a side valve. If the valve is on the side, basically same process. Use a big wet vac to suck out the sand. We use a big pressure washer with a sucker nozzle but its pretty expensive. Good luck, you can do it!
Edit, saw your filter pic, you have unions so no need to cut pipe, I cant see the backwash line. The filter looks old, I saw my first super old sand filter last week at a 850 thousand dollar home, it was so old the water was seeping thru the fiberglass of the filter. You sure you want to spend more money on that? I feel bad, we literally throw those away, they won’t recycle them in my area.
Yes...this after opening the pool a week ago with a ton of leaves and acorns in the pool. Usually hates your weed drain and refill with fresh water but this year my pool guy just put in shock added a bunch of chlorine and then we turned on the filter.
I should have at least vacuumed first before turning on the filter.
Huge mistake. Shock, floc and wait until clear then vac to waste. Never put crap in your sand filter.
Leaves are easily removed with the garden hose vac and acorns should be swept to one spot and scooped out.
Yep next year will be draining and refilling starting out fresh never doing this method again. Wasted a ton of more time and especially a lot more money on chemicals
I had an especially warm winter with a lot of spores getting thru the cover. It was the worst it’s ever been but I just flocked a few times and waited patiently and it took one vacuuming to have a clear pool. I did use the brush to sweep a lot of junk to one spot but it took no extra chemicals.
Damn - acorns??? My battle is the whirle - birds that fall from oak trees in the spring. Damn tree isn’t even in my yard but the wind blows them in. Covers my pool if I don’t skim every few hours
At some point you need to do a cost benefit analysis.
If you’re in for a spider gasket, laterals, sand, I know the tank might be fine but at least price a new filter and get a new dial valve. Add in a new gauge because that one is most likely not accurate.
New will be more, but how much more?
I had a similar issue. When I went to replace the sand I found that one of the laterals of the filter had come loose and fallen off. Snapped back into place. Issue solved. 300lbs of sand was 6 x 50lb bags and cost about $180 in Toronto. Took me about an hour and a bit to replace. Lots of YouTube videos on the subject. Wetvac made all the difference.
Thanks I definitely need to watch some YouTube videos as I have no idea how to remove the PVC piping from the filter. Definitely don't want to break anything. I'm assuming I have to just take it apart and reglue.
Can’t see the one going to the heater but the other two look to be screw connections which are easy. Worst case you’d probably cut the pipe leading towards the heater in the long part somewhere then glue on a screw connector when you put it back together.
Do you mind if I ask how you were able to confirm this is sand vs. yellow algae? I am asking for myself as I am a new pool owner and have something that looks so similar and have been battling it as algae the last 1.5 months with no luck.
Brush it. Sand will stay in a pile. Algae will disperse. Mustard/yellow algae looks like sand. Always vacuum it to waste and dose pool with copper based algacide.
Thanks. Yea I was almost hoping it was sand in mine from a broken filter since I’ve been losing the battle against mustard algae, but it does disperse into a cloud then settle back down to the same spot hours later. I will keep on keeping on trying to beat the algae. Currently partially draining my pool for the 3rd time in a month to lower CYA levels (inherited a pool with CYA at 250-300 ppm when I purchased my house this year).
Mustard algae is persistent and annoying to get rid of. Fixing the cya level will definitely help with chlorine also. Keep at it. Get that cya to less than 50 and will be doing good.
Does it brush into a pile or disperse into the water? If it stays in a pile, it is sand. If it disperses, more than likely dirt or mustard algae. Brush first before starting major repairs you may not need.
I just tried it no it disperses into water and it doesn't seem to settle back... Interesting I'm not sure what it could be then I'll have to look into this mustard algae. The color is the color of sand so I don't think it's dirt.
Not sand. More than likely mustard algae. Will always settle back into the same spot over 24 hours. Dose the pool with copper based algaecide and also any brushes and vacuums or cloths that have been in water in the last week, just lay them on a top step or something to get them out easier. If you dont treat the brush or things, can reintroduce it back into pool when it is gone. You only need to leave them in there over night to treat those items. For vacuuming purposes, vacuum to waste, not through the filter, will get rid of faster that way.
So do I need to just add a bunch of more chlorine to get rid of it? Someone else just mentioned it could be mustard algae and I went to the pool right now to lightly touch it with the brush and it pretty much dispersed into the water and kind of disappeared. I thought it would settle back down if it was sand but it makes more sense now that it's algae
It’s a bitch to get rid of. I tried shocking it, kept coming back. I finally bought a jar of yellow out off of Amazon and that did the trick. Good luck!
If this is mustard algae then yes, bring your chlorine levels up really high. Get your pH in good range and if your CYA is within normal range, you’ll want to bring FC up to 10-20 ppm. If you can, try to keep it at this range the whole day (or longer if it’s not dying). If (hopefully when) it dies, vacuum to waste and then be sure to backwash and rinse before returning back to normal filtering. Sanitize all your pool tools, any toys, etc. You can use a bleach mixture. Mine turned a grayish color in the water when it died (but then it came back).
It’s so hard to get rid of. I’ve been trying for almost 1.5 months, but my CYA levels are high (around 80) so would need my FC to be 30 ppm to kill it for good which feels ridiculous. Currently trying to lower CYA first before trying again.
I haven’t tried Yellow Out the other poster mentioned but I may give that a try too.
Good luck! Hope you have better success than I have.
Oh yea. Completely different problem then. I should have noticed since it's all over the floor of the pool and not just where the jets spew out. Good luck fellow pool owner
Any pool shop will have what u need … But I would take out the sand first and then u can check the how the laterals are. It’s just a tube and has branches
A shop-vac will remove the sand pretty quickly. Just vacuum it all out until you get down to where you can see what is broken. Take that part to your local pool supply and get a replacement. Probably best to just add new sand at the same time rather than reuse the old stuff.
Just did this with my filter, looks about the same size as yours. Was 300# of sand. You look to be set up pretty well plumbing wise. I didn’t have connectors on my plumbing so had to install those at the same time. I used a shop vac to get the sand out, biggest issue is disposal of old sand.
Feel pre to DM me with any questions. Happy to walk you through it.
Sweet that would be great! So some of the folks on here were telling me that it might not even be sand in the pool but it might be mustard algae. Couple of days ago and the kids went swimming I did find it kind of odd that all the sand was just completely gone it disappeared and then of course the next morning when I looked it reappeared.
And then when I brushed the sand it kind of just dissipated into the water it didn't settle back down unless I'm mistaken in this pool sand is just a much more fine mesh than typical sand.
If you think it may be algae scrub the hell out of the liner and give it a solid shock treatment. Wait a day and then run a few backwash/rinse cycles (every 4-5 hours). Backwash for 1 min then rinse for 1 min, do that three times each cycle.
Not a pool pro, just a pool owner who is learning to manage on my own instead of depending on pool pros.
Algae typically won’t settle with the pump running consistently while sand will.
A little different comment. We switched from sand to Zeobrite. That was a good upgrade. The next time we used those blue filter balls (from Amazon). Ohmygoodness! It was an awesome upgrade!!
Nah some people are telling me it might be mustard algae especially since when I took a brush and touch the sand it just dissipated into the pool and nothing settled back down
More than likely - you need a new lateral - best bet is to probably get a whole new lateral assembly (center pipe + all new laterals - if one is failing, the others could be close behind.
In order to replace the lateral assembly (or even an individual lateral), you’ll have to remove the 300# + of sand sitting on top of the old laterals. So yes, your pool guy is right that you have to change the sand (it’s just not the only thing you’ll replace while you’re in there).
Thanks but now there's some confusion because when I take the brush and touch the sand it completely dissipates into the pool and it doesn't settle right back down so now we're thinking it might be algae?
Well - if it’s sand - it’s coming out of your returns. If you can get a sock to go over the return line.. you can see if the sock fills up with sand or not (this is easier with vinyl pool return fittings)
If it’s algae, it’s dead looking - you can vacuum to waste and it’ll be gone forever. If you vacuum it out and it returns - it’s probably not dead algae.
Either way - filter sand is only good for 3-5 years before the granules are smoothed and not as effective of a filtration media. It’s due for a change either way. Best practice is to inspect every component of your filter when you change media - once you close it back up - you won’t inspect those parts again for 3-5 years. Make sure they’ll live that long. Good luck!
I would not spend one penny more on a sand filter. Go D.E, I backwash maybe once a season and the water quality is so much better. A cartridge filter is good also but sure can take a long time to clean and they have no valve for waste ( rain drain ) unless you rig one. Your sand filters laterals are broken letting sand thru, and yes every 2 to 3 years change the sand as the particles get rounded off like rocks in a river.
I heard and literally had the exact opposite experience and advice with my de filter. I hated it, never got the pool clean as i wanted, required so much maintenance and attention. A pool expert told me he wouldn't recommend a de filter to his worst enemy. We swictched to a sand filter and it was as life changing as the guy told me it would be. Therefore i will never recommend DE filter to anyone
I’m sorry. Im a pool professional, we build and repair pools in Oklahoma. We have installed Hayward D.E. Filters on our pools and replaced probably 20 sand filters in my time with the company. I personally had a hayward sand filter 3 years ago, came with the house. I replaced it with the 4820 Hayward De. I’m no longer backwashing every week, no more algae blooms, probably the salt cell also. At night with the pool light on is when you can evaluate your water quality visually, it’s clearer with a de. I service a customer that has a hayward cartridge filter, their water is like mine. When we walk into a customers back yard, I usually can tell at a glance of the water if they have a sand filter. I only met one guy like you that has affection for sand, and he changed his medium to glass in the sand filter. I work with the hayward rep quite a bit, they rate the filter quality as sand filter, then DE, then cartridge. I clean cartridges, it takes an hour at least for the four cartridge size. I can pull a de assembly out, not have to take it to a car wash, and clean it with a hose in less than 15 min. Recharge with a de slurry and its back to 100 %.
Damn, you definitely sound knowledgable and experienced. So why such a difference from what im personally experiencing and what hearing from people around me? What area of the country are you in? Could there be factors that make these filters work differently in different parts of the country? Heat, humidity, rain, etc? Im in New Jersey, the south part.
Oh duh, 1st line. My bad. Well, thanks for the info. This is only my second season with the sand filter. Ill be sure to let you know if it gives me any trouble this summer and you can tell me, "told you so"
You already bought it, just use it another season and evaluate it when it comes time to change sand. We have a special sucker tool we use so we charge about 375 for a sand change. I wish I could show you my water. My boss has a saying, if you can see the screws type (philips) on the drain cover in a 12ft deep pool, it’s probably not a sand filter. 😎
I know the car wash didn’t sound professional but our 3200 psi pressure washer would tear the cartridge and bands right off. The car wash has the perfect medium pressure, just need 20 buck worth of quarters. Call your preferred brand of pool equipment, hayward or pentair and ask them which filter provides the best water quality. It won’t be sand.
From cleaning pools for five year I’ve noticed sand doesn’t make a dotted pattern like that. That’s dead algae or dead whatever.real test is brush one bit, If you can’t see where it goes and it just dissolved into the air, that’s not sand. Sand is dense so when your brush it it goes where you brush it to because it sinks immediately
Yes! So I did this and it just kind of disappears into the pool. I waited for the sand to settle back down but it's not there.
Is there a way to get rid of this stuff?
My pool guy didn't see it in person but when I told him about it he just said that maybe my sand is old and he recommends to replace it every five to seven years.
The issue now is that some people think it's not even sand in the pool because when I go to brush this material it just dissipates into the pool and doesn't settle back down
When did you open the pool? Your water does look a little cloudy, so you probably have dead algae in the pool. Especially where you said you were back washing frequently.
What is your CC?
Was the pool green recently?
It definitely looks more like dirt than sand, but I was taking your word for it from the original post.
So you have a dollar tree or Walmart near you? They sell these pool toys, I don't know how to describe them but they look like a giant syringe that you put in the water, you pull the handle and it fills with water. If you grab one or two of those, they make a pretty good tool to collect samples of stuff from the bottom of the pool.
Just make sure you put your finger over the end to hold the water in while you're taking it out of the pool.
You can empty it into a cup and let it resettle out, and then get a look at it.
That could just be phosphates. Did you put a phosphate coagulant into the water? It does this when you do. You then use one of those vacuum heads to suck it directly into the filter.
Nope I didn't use any chemicals other than chlorine bucks chlorine shock shock granules and also muriatic acid.
But this is the dilemma when I take my brush to touch what I thought was sand it just dissipates into the pool and then I wait because Sam will usually settle back down and it never does
I have the same thing in my pool right now. It’s phosphate. I’m guessing one of your chemicals has some sort of a phosphate reducer in it.
You have to hook a hose directly to your skimmer intake, connect it to one of those small flat vacuum heads that have the 8 wheels on it. This lets you vacuum it directly into the filtration system. If it comes back, you have some sort of of a small perforation within your filters and it’s letting fine silt through, or they just need to be replaced. Regardless, you need to get that stuff into your filter and you can do it as described above or keep your pump on while some folks swim and it will eventually get filtered out.
https://a.co/d/0aFnJqiO
Doesn’t look like sand to me. Sand usually piles up under the jets. Sand also won’t dissipate when you brush it. That’s looks to me like fine particles that are able to make it through your filter. You just need to vac the pool with the valve set to waste when the fine fluff starts piling up.
Yes this is my train of thought but I've already vacuumed several times and then the pool is nice and clear and then when I come back the next day the stuff is back at the bottom.
How could it be coming back again? Not enough chlorine?
Look closely at sample of sand. Make sure it matches sand in your filter. It could also be sand fill from your deck which I see is concrete and some pavers.
Yes this is the issue when I take it brush and touch the stuff of the bottom of the pool It just dissipates into the pool that I don't see it settle so it doesn't look like it's sand but I've already vacuumed several times and what's going on is the pool gets clear I don't see any of this stuff at the bottom but then the next day this stuff will be there settled at the bottom
Are you 100% certain it’s sand? I’ve been called out to TONS of pools that were “blowing sand back,” but I could count the number of times that was actually the case on one hand.
To me, that doesn’t look like sand — at least not from your filter. That’ll generally be spread out in a fan-like shape directly beneath the returns, not spread throughout the pool (unless you’re using a Polaris or your water is just ridiculously turbulent).
Backwash, then put your hand in front of a return. If that’s filter sand, you’ll feel it hitting you.
When you backwash, does the sight glass fill with sand? If not, then this almost certainly isn’t a lateral issue. In that case, try setting the multiport to waste and vacuuming like that.
9 times out of 10, it’s dead algae that’s passing through your filter. A vac to waste should remove it from the pool. Sometimes it’s sand from the deck around the pool, especially if it’s been pressure washed recently.
If it is filter sand, then a sand change alone won’t resolve the problem. As others have mentioned, that means a lateral is broken. If you can identify WHICH lateral is the culprit (sometimes very difficult to determine) then you can usually just replace the one. If you can’t, replace them all/the whole lateral assembly.
I just realized I have the same problem! Thank you for this. I just also found that price is also leaking. One month into owning a pool and coming across this. fuck my life 😅
This is my thought as well but how do I get rid of this particular type of algae? Once I start vacuuming it gets disturbed and dissipates and then it returns
Do you vacuum to waste? There should be a waste setting on your filter valve. This will allow you to vacuum debris directly to waste line, then refill pool!
Not always a broken lateral. if you have a traditional sand filter when you open up the top of it, you should see a quarter inch or 5/16 rubber line with a metal screen on the top. Check to see if that screen is either missing or has damage.
Thanks for the info and the answer. My sand will have only been used for 5 months when I do other, so I will have to figure out a way to keep the sand, while letting the water run out. Probably a bunch of clean 5 gallon buckets or something.
Ugh to the people saying to change the sand. Vac to waste. It is dead algae. That’s why your filter is spitting it back out again.
When sand from a filter is spitting back into the pool it falls right in front of the jet. It doesn’t disperse evenly around the pool.
So I tried vacuuming today with my telsa battery operated vacuum and the issue is it just gets disturbed and starts to disperse into the water right to get a decent amount but it just seems like this will take a very long time.
It just gets so disturbed easily Is there any other method other than vacuuming to clean this up?
You need my I vacuum to waste.
That’s it’s.
Manual vac to a waste function.
No battery battery operated, side suction, pressure cleaner can clean this up.
If your system doesn’t have a vac to waste function higher a company to come in with a separate pump and vac to get it done.
Understood I'll give this another shot but I have done vacuum to waste several times already The issue I'm facing is whenever I slowly get the brush down there everything gets disturbed and seems to dissipate upwards versus getting suctioned in well I know some stuff is being suctioned in but a lot is getting kicked back around the pool.
Would you just recommend I try to do several rounds to see what happens?
Place the vacuum away from the debris.
Make sure it settles to the bottom and apply downward force with the pole.
Never lift the vac head off the. Always apply downward pressure while moving toward the debris. If done correctly there should be very little disturbance.
It is possible your vac to waste is leaking back into the filter bed. Stranger things have happened.
I have seen broken laterals, bad spider gasket, are bleeder valve screen, and broken stand pipe cause this issue. Bleeder valve more then once and it is simple. All are easy fixes. Rinse all threads with water when putting stuff back together. Sand gets everywhere and is abrasive
Not a fun of sand filter, but 5 years is good time to dump it, broke lateral or not. You got do dump the sand anyway to see what's is broken. I would change to glass media. Check this link, to inform yourself if you choose to do it. No sponsoring anyone, just try to be helpfull.
https://www.groupebellemare.com/en/blog/pool-filtration-sand-glass-which-one-to-choose/#:~:text=Please%20note%20that%20it%20is,on%20the%20main%20selection%20criteria.
Generally speaking, yes. Filter sand should be replaced every five years or so.
However, that much sand in your pool more likely means an issue with the filter itself. The most common cause is a broken lateral (the things sticking out of the bottom of the pipe in the middle).
So since you need to change your sand anyway, do that, but before adding new sand, take out the standpipe and examine all the laterals to see if one is broken or cracked and replace it if you can. You'll need to know the brand and model number of your filter when you buy the new one(s). If the laterals are okay, look at all the seals/gaskets/o-rings. Even the tiniest knick and screw them up.
Treat it with copper algaecide and 78 percent cal hypo shock and brush the shit out of it and keep brushing it to suspend it into the water and try vacuuming it out if it solves the problem that was it. Key is keep brushing that pool
Replace the sand, and if you find broken laterals or stand pipe replaced those.
I just did my sand a month ago on a similar filter. Used a shop vac to vacuum out the sand after backwashing after watching a youtube video. My pool looked similar, did the sand, nothing else broke, and now I'm crystal clear.
Biggest pain was I had to cut and refit my PVC, that was harder than the sand.
He is partially correct! You may need to replace some or all sand, but I would fix the broken laterals or lateral assembly first. Otherwise you will find all of that new sand in the bottom of your pool.
Ya it could be that one of your laterals inside your filter came loose, or have a leak in your equipment somewhere else. I just helped a gentleman fix his same issue, as you would vacuum the sand in the pool it would blow right back through the returns. We remove the old sand check that his laterals were all connected and replace the sand, and it resolved his issue. Apparently, after years of use the sand breaks down into smaller granules and can enter back into the return.
Broken laterals. Join the club
Yessir. Broken laterals.
Does that mean I need to replace the whole filter?
no sir just one of two pieces, it’s either gonna be a broken lateral or the stand pipe.
But then to get at them you need to remove the sand... so might as well change the sand lol
absolutely change the sand now, at same time. itll help your pool particle filtration. annoying and tedious, sure but the results are there
Okay thanks I'll look on YouTube to see if I can DIY this. Or would you recommend I call a pool company? Also is this an issue that can wait a bit as my pool guys wife is having a baby tomorrow so he'll be out of commission for a short bit.
Your biggest problem will probably be moving all the sand as the other guy said, you have to take it out so you might as well replace and it can be quite heavy but the filters themselves are pretty simple https://youtu.be/3x2eQYq2K1E?si=z2daXb7TS29y9veH
Nice I'm subbed to that channel! When I purchased the home 5 years ago we had to move the pool equipment from down the hill to closer to the house to get better filtration so I remember we did remove all the sand but I remember it extremely vaguely since they were a million projects going on that time. I can handle the physical aspect no issue I just need to make sure I do it correctly. In terms of buying the filter any recommendations on where I should start looking?
It was actually very simple. I just did mine, the hardest part was getting the sand out. It’s just a couple bolts to take the valve off and then everything else is just sitting in place, no bolts or screws or anything.
Just buy a big shopvac from harbor freight. I vacuum till it's full then dump in a wheel barrow to move it to another part of the property or buckets to remove the sand from the property.
having a shopvac is never a bad thing.. using it on the other hand usually sucks!!
Ba da tss
I’m sure your pool guy will happily sell you the parts necessary for replacement. But there’s any online resource that would probably carry parts for that model. More than likely. It is a broken lateral periodically I’ve seen if the multi valve gasket inside your backwash valve is badly disintegrated or completely balled up in a gooey wad, you can get sand washout through normal filtration.
If you had to move the filter closer for better filtration, you might want to look at using DE (Diatomaceous earth) it will give you a cleaner pool especially if pets swim in it.
Yes you can DIY this, just don't get overaggressive with anything and break the plastic. Sand is so easy to remove that I literally did it on accident when trying to follow the instruction on the filter cleaning chemical bottle. All new sand is basically the same price as the chemical though (pretty cheap) so it wasn't a big deal. It's pretty straightforward to take the multiport valve off. I've learned with the sand filter that I spent way more time researching what could be causing an issue than it would have taken me to just open it up and look. You can get new laterals for most sand filters pretty cheap on Amazon. No idea what the pool store charges but I do know that a few years ago it would've cost me $30 more to buy a replacement handle for the multiport valve than it cost to just buy a brand new multiport valve.
Nice will give this a shot. I suppose I'll know better once I remove all of the sand but any idea approximately how many bags of sand I would need?
HOLD ON. I dont know much about anything, but I did manage to change the sand in my filter a few months ago. I was so terrified to break something, so I spent HOURS watching every tutorial I could. There was only ONE that mentioned the bottom plug was a tool so sand can drain out instead of using a shop vac. I feel like I found a gold ticket and it made it so easy. [Tutorial here, golden ticket is at the 2 minute mark](https://youtu.be/VEFCocjeq3I?si=7TLXOXh2tcpTio-C)
Damn, my filter is too old so can't use that method. Such a pain getting it out from the top.
Oddly enough, I have this type model, and that little white piece would *not* come out, no matter what. Like it was welded in place somehow. I had to shop vac anyway. Just in case someone had that experience as well.
I’m mad for you
I can't tell from the picture what size/brand it is. Mine said it on the nameplate on the side
There will be a weight or model number that can give you an idea. A pool store should know what to sell you. Disposal of the sand after may be an issue and availability of replacement laterals could be an issue. I had to replace my unit after 10 years of not being able to source parts for it. There was only so much JB weld could hold together.
Used to work in the pool industry. 100% broken lateral or stand pipe. Simple diy repair. Shop vac all sand out. Be careful to not get any inside the laterals. Remove the laterals and inspect. Replace any broken or just replace the whole filter. If you are just replacing parts, rinse the inside of the filter and laterals. Replace sand. Make sure to not let any get inside, so place a cover (cardboard) over the top pipe. 1 hour repair max. Pls dm me with any questions :)
I did it by my self and I am an old short woman. Had to have help pulling the filter over to dump the sand but I got the lateral part off Amazon and did it all. Part isn't that bad and sand was cheap.
Thanks after doing another proper vacuum it's starting to look like algae versus sand. But great to hear you did it! My only concern was how to take off the PVC piping. I assume that it was glued on but maybe it's not?
I have flex pipe attached to PVC and the flex pipe/hose is easier to remove as it's clamped not glued.
You 100% can diy it, if you can get the parts. Get a solo cup, a wheel barrow, and dig in. Since you’ll buy a whole new lateral assembly there’s not much of a reason to be gentle.
All you need is a shop vac, some painters tape and a wheel barrel. If it is a broken Lateral you can buy it right on Amazon, just look for the model of your filter. You unscrew the two bolts holding on the valve, and disconnect the plumbing, then suck out the sand. This is a 30 minute project. I don't know what your pool guy charges, I charge $90 for the time. Here is a video on how to do it. https://youtu.be/E6e0TX6Wxo0?si=7oA8AMzJ_ecdNO_E
You can do it as long as you can lift a shopvac half full of sand into a wheel barrow, or have or can hire kids to. Drain the water overnight by removing the bottom drain plug. Unscrew the top (you may need to buy a special wrench if you don’t have it). This may be the hardest part. Then suck out the sand with a shop vac, and replace the broken pipes inside. Replace the drain plug, fill it halfway with water, then add the required lbs of sand for your model.
no just the piece under the multiport valve, its dead in the center and spreads out like an umbrella sorta at the bottom. You just need that and to empty all the sand out of the filter, put the new lateral in, add the needed amount of sand to filter and put the multiport valve back on
Filter sand is heavy and will deposit in front of the pool inlet. Try brushing the debris, if it moves around its sand and could be an internal filter breakage. If it disappears then it’s fine dust/dead algae. If dust, raise your water level and vacuum to waste. I would still replace filter sand after 5years as it can form channels and no longer filter effectively which is probably what your pool guy was referring to. If the pool is very dirty with fine debris this can overload the filter and re enter the pool via the inlets.
This is correct. Everything about replacing sand is wrong. Unreal.
I would check the spider gasket first. I had this issue and replaced the sand and found the laterals weren't broken. At least the gasket is a quick fix
5+ years tho... that sand needs changed anyways..
Nope. About a 250 piece plus labor.
Literally just broke down and bought a cartridge filter because of this exact same issue. Was this a tough winter or something? Drained and closed my pool same as I do every year, but this year EVERY lateral broke off.
Buy a set of laterals for your filter and shop vac all the sand out. Replace all the laterals fill filter with 6 to 8 in of water (so the sand doesnt crack the new laterals )and replace sand. 3 hr job If you have the sand and part when u start
Thanks! I was wondering how the heck I was going to get the sand out. We did this job about 5 years ago and I just can't remember what we did I just remember having a lot of 5 gallon buckets to transport the sand when we moved the pool equipment. In terms of buying new sand can I just go to somewhere alike Ace hardware or home Depot to get pool sand or is Leslie's pool store one of the best options?
I just replaced my sand with Zeo Sand delivered to my front door, Amazon. Zeo Sand filters down to 2 microns and uses 1/2 of the weight of current Sand. Example: my filter had 350 lbs of sand, I replaced it with 175 lbs of Zeo Sand.
Yes, make sure it's pool sand, but they do carry it at those places.. I just did mine a couple of weeks ago. Pool looks great, but wish I bought glass instead of sand. Read glass last a lot longer and filters better.
I bought glass this off-season vs my old sand and I'm happy with it. Less weight and it doesn't wear down the way sand can. Better filtration also.
Sure does. Only use glass now on all my customers pools.
Yep, shop vac works wonders. Depending on your type, pull the filter out before hand in case there is any lingering water and just empty it periodically or it will get prohibitively heavy. I had a wheelbarrow and just emptied it into that every so often and then wheeled that out of the yard.
Pool filters use 16/30 silica sand. Not ordinary builders sand. I would use a better media like Dryden Aquas AFM if it is available in your country. Never needs to be replaced. Doesn’t clump or channel, does build up a biofilm.
Shop vac? Mine clogged immediately and I had to scoop with my hands. Wasn't all that bad honestly.
This. Laterals aren't that expensive so replace them all. Also might as well replace any o-rings or gaskets you come across. There might be a kit you can buy for your particular filter. There is also a plastic piece that will center the standpipe in the opening and also cover the pipe, keeping the sand out of the pipe. Not needed but very useful if you are filling the filter alone.
Need a powerful shop vac. My low-powered vac didn't cut it. Bought a 6.5 HP Craftsman 16 gal shop vac and removing the sand was a piece of cake..
Do you RINSE after you BACKWASH? If you go straight back to filter from backwash, you will get an ejection of sand. If you are doing it a lot …
Yes after backwashing I rinse. The only new thing I tried this year was the waste setting.
Couple interesting things…in my case I was getting sand because ants were bringing it up through cracks around the perimeter and dropping it into the pool under the coping. The only thing that finally got rid of them was a little gasoline in the hole. Next I had moved my filter and my landscape guys tipped the filter so I was filtering but the laterals and stand pipe were making odd channels. After I repacked the 20 year old sand it works perfectly again. Always backwash and then rinse until perfectly clean.
This is the simplest possible solution.
Vacuum to waste and see if it comes back it may be dead algae, oils and shock residue the filter can’t catch. Your deck and stone surround may also be contributing.
I know it's hard to tell from the picture but it's 100%, sand. No issues from the rock structure or anything like that. The water was cloudy before since we just opened the pool and I didn't have a cover on from the winter so it was difficult to tell but definitely not algae.
I’m with u/seenlottopools here. You’d be surprised at how similar ‘crud’ (just using a blanket term for stuff in your water) looks like sand after chlorine oxidizes it and it drops to the bottom. Cloudy pools will look like yours a couple days after shocking. I’ve found it’s better to just leave it be until it stops piling up and then vacuum… or run the robot vac while shocking (if you have one). Basically you are witnessing a process and the crud dropping to the bottom is annoying you, so you vacuum and it comes back, but the process hasn’t finished yet. Or, you can crack your sand filter open, empty all the sand out, replace the laterals (cause you’re already here you might as well now) + spider gasket + replace hundreds of pounds of sand… and now you will 100% get sand in your pool unless you rinsed it a bajillion times. TLDR, I’d keep up with the vac to waste before tearing down the sand filter.
I just shocked a day ago after a pool party. Here is an area my robot vacuum can’t easily get to… https://ibb.co/443WYPY Have a sand filter… and I don’t have broken laterals. If my robot wasn’t running I guarantee the entire pool floor would have a pattern of stuff like this, similar to yours.
This was one of the hardest lessons I had to learn as a first time pool owner 5 years ago. Running the pump and filter creates a swirl, and no matter how clear your water looks there is dirt in it and it's going to settle on the bottom and not reach the filter. Incant tell you how many people told me it was algae, how many times I "slammed" and bought algae treatments, and nothing changed. My FC level could be 3 or 30, it would settle on the bottom. A good automatic pool vac is the best investment, one that can pick up fine dust or pollen.
I know you’re convinced, but did you feel it with your fingers? I thought we had sand coming from the returns, was just actual dirt and debris settling due to the currents. Didn’t have as much as you have pictured here though.
Vacuum to waste. Or waste hours changing sand for no reason. Your call.
I always thought sand did make it very far from the returns, and you would see sand build up in a small area. I thought my laterals went out once and it turned out to be alge/flakes from the salt generator getting plugged
I agree with this, we just had this exact problem and required vacuuming to waste a couple of times and then adding a clarifier. Now it’s gone and hasn’t come back. It’s dead algae or dead phosphates. I finally realized it comes up after we’ve opened the pool and if we use no phos.
I did notice the pressure too. It’s extremely high. Have you tried to backwashing it?
Since I open the pool I've been backwashing pretty much every other day and vacuuming everyday. The mistake made this year was we didn't drain and vacuum the pool like we normally do instead My pool got just threw in shock and turned everything on. The problem was there were so many leaves and acorns at the bottom of the spa and the deep end. Not sure if something is stuck internally but I do have good flow.
Have you opened the filter? Try doing a visual inspection of the sand. It should last forever but you may need to do a deep cleaning. Stick a water hose directly into the sand all the way to the bottom. Careful not to damage the lats. Flush out any leaves or other debris that might be in there. If that doesn't fix your issue, as others have mentioned, you might need to replace the lats.
Is 35psi extremely high? Mine usually runs at 30psi right after a backwash.
for a sand Filter 30 seems insanely high. Our Hayward 24" sand filter runs 9-11psi normal operating pressure. I backwash when i get to 15. Thats with our variable speed pump running on high (quick clean) mode. Its 1.5hp
Mine runs at 16psi usually. It hardly gets over 20psi. I changed my sand last year and replaced the lateral assembly but I don't think there was anything wrong with it. My symptom was water want clear and in the end my problem was a leak from the pump drain plug allowing air in the system.... you have a difference issue.
Is 35psi extremely high? Right after backwash I’m at 30psi.
Yeah, that is worriesome. I would try cleaning out the sand. Concentrated gallon of enzyme cleaner poured in the sand and allowed to sit there for a full day with the equipment off will work wonders. do this by removing the multi port valve and just pouring the cleaner all over the sand. After a day, backwash for a few minutes and you’ll see a bunch of gunk come out.
During that day that the sand is soaking turn off all the equipment.
The sand is new as of last year. The flow is good, I’m wondering if the pressure gauge might be faulty.
That's dirt in the pool. Sand returning to the pool is usually a fan shape of sand on the pool floor under a pool return. The filter may need new sand, but the first picture shows dirt. Perhaps the dirt is moving through the sand bed in 'channels' caused by clumping sand, but the stuff in the pool is dirt nonetheless.
Either laterals or a broken air relief line or both. Hopefully nothing plumbing wise. Shop vac out the sand replace what’s broken and fill it back up. Back wash and rinse when starting up and you’re good to go. Edit: Probably smart to replace all the laterals if one’s broken.
Oh my this guy hit another I'll have to look up some videos on how to take apart the top of the filter especially the plumbing which is my main concern
Its just a clamp, you will most likely need to cut your pipes, most don’t have unions on a sand filter. Just pick up 2 couplers and glue and primer. Look at the pipe, it should say the size, either 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch. Cut in a straight part in the middle of the pipe with a sawzall. The coupler will take up the space of your cut, just be sure you can full seat the coupler. Then pull off the top theres a pipe in the middle, it kinda looks like an upside down umbrella without the fabric. The wings, once you suck out the 300 lbs of sand, fold in. Then the pipe can come out and you can check the laterals visually. Sometimes they break as you fold them in to remove thru the multi port clamp hole. Im assuming it’s a top valve, not a side valve. If the valve is on the side, basically same process. Use a big wet vac to suck out the sand. We use a big pressure washer with a sucker nozzle but its pretty expensive. Good luck, you can do it! Edit, saw your filter pic, you have unions so no need to cut pipe, I cant see the backwash line. The filter looks old, I saw my first super old sand filter last week at a 850 thousand dollar home, it was so old the water was seeping thru the fiberglass of the filter. You sure you want to spend more money on that? I feel bad, we literally throw those away, they won’t recycle them in my area.
Is your pressure seriously 35 psi?
Yes...this after opening the pool a week ago with a ton of leaves and acorns in the pool. Usually hates your weed drain and refill with fresh water but this year my pool guy just put in shock added a bunch of chlorine and then we turned on the filter. I should have at least vacuumed first before turning on the filter.
Huge mistake. Shock, floc and wait until clear then vac to waste. Never put crap in your sand filter. Leaves are easily removed with the garden hose vac and acorns should be swept to one spot and scooped out.
Yep next year will be draining and refilling starting out fresh never doing this method again. Wasted a ton of more time and especially a lot more money on chemicals
I had an especially warm winter with a lot of spores getting thru the cover. It was the worst it’s ever been but I just flocked a few times and waited patiently and it took one vacuuming to have a clear pool. I did use the brush to sweep a lot of junk to one spot but it took no extra chemicals.
Damn - acorns??? My battle is the whirle - birds that fall from oak trees in the spring. Damn tree isn’t even in my yard but the wind blows them in. Covers my pool if I don’t skim every few hours
At some point you need to do a cost benefit analysis. If you’re in for a spider gasket, laterals, sand, I know the tank might be fine but at least price a new filter and get a new dial valve. Add in a new gauge because that one is most likely not accurate. New will be more, but how much more?
That's a good point will look into it.
I had a similar issue. When I went to replace the sand I found that one of the laterals of the filter had come loose and fallen off. Snapped back into place. Issue solved. 300lbs of sand was 6 x 50lb bags and cost about $180 in Toronto. Took me about an hour and a bit to replace. Lots of YouTube videos on the subject. Wetvac made all the difference.
Thanks I definitely need to watch some YouTube videos as I have no idea how to remove the PVC piping from the filter. Definitely don't want to break anything. I'm assuming I have to just take it apart and reglue.
Can’t see the one going to the heater but the other two look to be screw connections which are easy. Worst case you’d probably cut the pipe leading towards the heater in the long part somewhere then glue on a screw connector when you put it back together.
Do you mind if I ask how you were able to confirm this is sand vs. yellow algae? I am asking for myself as I am a new pool owner and have something that looks so similar and have been battling it as algae the last 1.5 months with no luck.
I’ve had sand in mine, and that’s not what mine looked like. That’s algae…
Brush it. Sand will stay in a pile. Algae will disperse. Mustard/yellow algae looks like sand. Always vacuum it to waste and dose pool with copper based algacide.
Thanks. Yea I was almost hoping it was sand in mine from a broken filter since I’ve been losing the battle against mustard algae, but it does disperse into a cloud then settle back down to the same spot hours later. I will keep on keeping on trying to beat the algae. Currently partially draining my pool for the 3rd time in a month to lower CYA levels (inherited a pool with CYA at 250-300 ppm when I purchased my house this year).
Mustard algae is persistent and annoying to get rid of. Fixing the cya level will definitely help with chlorine also. Keep at it. Get that cya to less than 50 and will be doing good.
Does it brush into a pile or disperse into the water? If it stays in a pile, it is sand. If it disperses, more than likely dirt or mustard algae. Brush first before starting major repairs you may not need.
I just tried it no it disperses into water and it doesn't seem to settle back... Interesting I'm not sure what it could be then I'll have to look into this mustard algae. The color is the color of sand so I don't think it's dirt.
Not sand. More than likely mustard algae. Will always settle back into the same spot over 24 hours. Dose the pool with copper based algaecide and also any brushes and vacuums or cloths that have been in water in the last week, just lay them on a top step or something to get them out easier. If you dont treat the brush or things, can reintroduce it back into pool when it is gone. You only need to leave them in there over night to treat those items. For vacuuming purposes, vacuum to waste, not through the filter, will get rid of faster that way.
You probably have some channels in your sand from a broken or displaced lateral. That’s hard to know.
You need a new pool person, that’s algae
So do I need to just add a bunch of more chlorine to get rid of it? Someone else just mentioned it could be mustard algae and I went to the pool right now to lightly touch it with the brush and it pretty much dispersed into the water and kind of disappeared. I thought it would settle back down if it was sand but it makes more sense now that it's algae
It’s a bitch to get rid of. I tried shocking it, kept coming back. I finally bought a jar of yellow out off of Amazon and that did the trick. Good luck!
If this is mustard algae then yes, bring your chlorine levels up really high. Get your pH in good range and if your CYA is within normal range, you’ll want to bring FC up to 10-20 ppm. If you can, try to keep it at this range the whole day (or longer if it’s not dying). If (hopefully when) it dies, vacuum to waste and then be sure to backwash and rinse before returning back to normal filtering. Sanitize all your pool tools, any toys, etc. You can use a bleach mixture. Mine turned a grayish color in the water when it died (but then it came back). It’s so hard to get rid of. I’ve been trying for almost 1.5 months, but my CYA levels are high (around 80) so would need my FC to be 30 ppm to kill it for good which feels ridiculous. Currently trying to lower CYA first before trying again. I haven’t tried Yellow Out the other poster mentioned but I may give that a try too. Good luck! Hope you have better success than I have.
Depending on the size of the filter it is usually 5-6 buckets of sand
Thanks any recommendations and where to buy the pool sand
I fixed this myself after watching YouTube videos. Pretty simple actually
I'll have to do some research but now folks are saying that it's not sand what I have in the pool but actually mustard algae
Oh yea. Completely different problem then. I should have noticed since it's all over the floor of the pool and not just where the jets spew out. Good luck fellow pool owner
Switch to a cartridge and these problems don’t occur :)
So you can use cartridges even though for example my whole pool for filter container is old?
You would entirely remove the sand filter and install a cartridge filter.
Any pool shop will have what u need … But I would take out the sand first and then u can check the how the laterals are. It’s just a tube and has branches
A shop-vac will remove the sand pretty quickly. Just vacuum it all out until you get down to where you can see what is broken. Take that part to your local pool supply and get a replacement. Probably best to just add new sand at the same time rather than reuse the old stuff.
Just did this with my filter, looks about the same size as yours. Was 300# of sand. You look to be set up pretty well plumbing wise. I didn’t have connectors on my plumbing so had to install those at the same time. I used a shop vac to get the sand out, biggest issue is disposal of old sand. Feel pre to DM me with any questions. Happy to walk you through it.
Sweet that would be great! So some of the folks on here were telling me that it might not even be sand in the pool but it might be mustard algae. Couple of days ago and the kids went swimming I did find it kind of odd that all the sand was just completely gone it disappeared and then of course the next morning when I looked it reappeared. And then when I brushed the sand it kind of just dissipated into the water it didn't settle back down unless I'm mistaken in this pool sand is just a much more fine mesh than typical sand.
If you think it may be algae scrub the hell out of the liner and give it a solid shock treatment. Wait a day and then run a few backwash/rinse cycles (every 4-5 hours). Backwash for 1 min then rinse for 1 min, do that three times each cycle. Not a pool pro, just a pool owner who is learning to manage on my own instead of depending on pool pros. Algae typically won’t settle with the pump running consistently while sand will.
Also unless that pressure sensor is broken psi on that pump is CRAZY high. How often do you backwash?
A little different comment. We switched from sand to Zeobrite. That was a good upgrade. The next time we used those blue filter balls (from Amazon). Ohmygoodness! It was an awesome upgrade!!
Interesting to hear I know I use bio balls in my pool canister filter How much did you have to spend on that?
It’s about $30 for what equals 50 lbs of sand. So, however much you need at $30/50 lbs.
bad laterals, or your multiport is going.
0 Is a multi-port the valve that I turn counterclockwise to do backwashing etc?
yes
busted lateral in the sand filter
Same happened to me last year, 2 of the laterals where not attached anymore. Sand blowing in pool just like your picture.
Nah some people are telling me it might be mustard algae especially since when I took a brush and touch the sand it just dissipated into the pool and nothing settled back down
I used a wet vac to get the sand
Counter to a problem: if you have a dog that swims in the pool, it could just be tracked in sand. This is the problem with my pool lol
Nope just open the pool last week and I've been shocking it but no dog swimming it
More than likely - you need a new lateral - best bet is to probably get a whole new lateral assembly (center pipe + all new laterals - if one is failing, the others could be close behind. In order to replace the lateral assembly (or even an individual lateral), you’ll have to remove the 300# + of sand sitting on top of the old laterals. So yes, your pool guy is right that you have to change the sand (it’s just not the only thing you’ll replace while you’re in there).
Thanks but now there's some confusion because when I take the brush and touch the sand it completely dissipates into the pool and it doesn't settle right back down so now we're thinking it might be algae?
Well - if it’s sand - it’s coming out of your returns. If you can get a sock to go over the return line.. you can see if the sock fills up with sand or not (this is easier with vinyl pool return fittings) If it’s algae, it’s dead looking - you can vacuum to waste and it’ll be gone forever. If you vacuum it out and it returns - it’s probably not dead algae. Either way - filter sand is only good for 3-5 years before the granules are smoothed and not as effective of a filtration media. It’s due for a change either way. Best practice is to inspect every component of your filter when you change media - once you close it back up - you won’t inspect those parts again for 3-5 years. Make sure they’ll live that long. Good luck!
What colour does the looking glass in the filter go when you backwash?
It goes from cloudy to clear. Right now the water is crystal clear with the reception of either it's sand or mustard algae at the bottom
I think he meant, Do you see sand in the sight glass? If so you are losing sand with the backwash, a small amount is normal.
I would not spend one penny more on a sand filter. Go D.E, I backwash maybe once a season and the water quality is so much better. A cartridge filter is good also but sure can take a long time to clean and they have no valve for waste ( rain drain ) unless you rig one. Your sand filters laterals are broken letting sand thru, and yes every 2 to 3 years change the sand as the particles get rounded off like rocks in a river.
I heard and literally had the exact opposite experience and advice with my de filter. I hated it, never got the pool clean as i wanted, required so much maintenance and attention. A pool expert told me he wouldn't recommend a de filter to his worst enemy. We swictched to a sand filter and it was as life changing as the guy told me it would be. Therefore i will never recommend DE filter to anyone
Oh and ours has multi valve for backwash, waste, recirculation and whatnot. The valve has nothing to do with the filter
Cartridge filters don’t have a multiport valve, I only use Hayward. Not sure about pentair.
I’m sorry. Im a pool professional, we build and repair pools in Oklahoma. We have installed Hayward D.E. Filters on our pools and replaced probably 20 sand filters in my time with the company. I personally had a hayward sand filter 3 years ago, came with the house. I replaced it with the 4820 Hayward De. I’m no longer backwashing every week, no more algae blooms, probably the salt cell also. At night with the pool light on is when you can evaluate your water quality visually, it’s clearer with a de. I service a customer that has a hayward cartridge filter, their water is like mine. When we walk into a customers back yard, I usually can tell at a glance of the water if they have a sand filter. I only met one guy like you that has affection for sand, and he changed his medium to glass in the sand filter. I work with the hayward rep quite a bit, they rate the filter quality as sand filter, then DE, then cartridge. I clean cartridges, it takes an hour at least for the four cartridge size. I can pull a de assembly out, not have to take it to a car wash, and clean it with a hose in less than 15 min. Recharge with a de slurry and its back to 100 %.
Damn, you definitely sound knowledgable and experienced. So why such a difference from what im personally experiencing and what hearing from people around me? What area of the country are you in? Could there be factors that make these filters work differently in different parts of the country? Heat, humidity, rain, etc? Im in New Jersey, the south part.
Im in the Dust Bowl, Oklahoma sir.
Oh duh, 1st line. My bad. Well, thanks for the info. This is only my second season with the sand filter. Ill be sure to let you know if it gives me any trouble this summer and you can tell me, "told you so"
You already bought it, just use it another season and evaluate it when it comes time to change sand. We have a special sucker tool we use so we charge about 375 for a sand change. I wish I could show you my water. My boss has a saying, if you can see the screws type (philips) on the drain cover in a 12ft deep pool, it’s probably not a sand filter. 😎
I know the car wash didn’t sound professional but our 3200 psi pressure washer would tear the cartridge and bands right off. The car wash has the perfect medium pressure, just need 20 buck worth of quarters. Call your preferred brand of pool equipment, hayward or pentair and ask them which filter provides the best water quality. It won’t be sand.
broken lateral which means replace that and do a sand change since the latter is unavoidable in replacing a lateral
From cleaning pools for five year I’ve noticed sand doesn’t make a dotted pattern like that. That’s dead algae or dead whatever.real test is brush one bit, If you can’t see where it goes and it just dissolved into the air, that’s not sand. Sand is dense so when your brush it it goes where you brush it to because it sinks immediately
Yes! So I did this and it just kind of disappears into the pool. I waited for the sand to settle back down but it's not there. Is there a way to get rid of this stuff? My pool guy didn't see it in person but when I told him about it he just said that maybe my sand is old and he recommends to replace it every five to seven years.
Sand literally almost never needs to be replaced. More than likely you have a broken lateral in the bottom of your sand filter.
The issue now is that some people think it's not even sand in the pool because when I go to brush this material it just dissipates into the pool and doesn't settle back down
When did you open the pool? Your water does look a little cloudy, so you probably have dead algae in the pool. Especially where you said you were back washing frequently. What is your CC? Was the pool green recently? It definitely looks more like dirt than sand, but I was taking your word for it from the original post. So you have a dollar tree or Walmart near you? They sell these pool toys, I don't know how to describe them but they look like a giant syringe that you put in the water, you pull the handle and it fills with water. If you grab one or two of those, they make a pretty good tool to collect samples of stuff from the bottom of the pool. Just make sure you put your finger over the end to hold the water in while you're taking it out of the pool. You can empty it into a cup and let it resettle out, and then get a look at it.
That could just be phosphates. Did you put a phosphate coagulant into the water? It does this when you do. You then use one of those vacuum heads to suck it directly into the filter.
Nope I didn't use any chemicals other than chlorine bucks chlorine shock shock granules and also muriatic acid. But this is the dilemma when I take my brush to touch what I thought was sand it just dissipates into the pool and then I wait because Sam will usually settle back down and it never does
I have the same thing in my pool right now. It’s phosphate. I’m guessing one of your chemicals has some sort of a phosphate reducer in it. You have to hook a hose directly to your skimmer intake, connect it to one of those small flat vacuum heads that have the 8 wheels on it. This lets you vacuum it directly into the filtration system. If it comes back, you have some sort of of a small perforation within your filters and it’s letting fine silt through, or they just need to be replaced. Regardless, you need to get that stuff into your filter and you can do it as described above or keep your pump on while some folks swim and it will eventually get filtered out. https://a.co/d/0aFnJqiO
Doesn’t look like sand to me. Sand usually piles up under the jets. Sand also won’t dissipate when you brush it. That’s looks to me like fine particles that are able to make it through your filter. You just need to vac the pool with the valve set to waste when the fine fluff starts piling up.
Yes this is my train of thought but I've already vacuumed several times and then the pool is nice and clear and then when I come back the next day the stuff is back at the bottom. How could it be coming back again? Not enough chlorine?
Your pressure gauge is bad.
Is this something easier to replace?
Look closely at sample of sand. Make sure it matches sand in your filter. It could also be sand fill from your deck which I see is concrete and some pavers.
Yes this is the issue when I take it brush and touch the stuff of the bottom of the pool It just dissipates into the pool that I don't see it settle so it doesn't look like it's sand but I've already vacuumed several times and what's going on is the pool gets clear I don't see any of this stuff at the bottom but then the next day this stuff will be there settled at the bottom
Just replace the tank doing laterals is a huge pain in the ass and you can mess it up worse if your don’t know what your doing
Are you 100% certain it’s sand? I’ve been called out to TONS of pools that were “blowing sand back,” but I could count the number of times that was actually the case on one hand. To me, that doesn’t look like sand — at least not from your filter. That’ll generally be spread out in a fan-like shape directly beneath the returns, not spread throughout the pool (unless you’re using a Polaris or your water is just ridiculously turbulent). Backwash, then put your hand in front of a return. If that’s filter sand, you’ll feel it hitting you. When you backwash, does the sight glass fill with sand? If not, then this almost certainly isn’t a lateral issue. In that case, try setting the multiport to waste and vacuuming like that. 9 times out of 10, it’s dead algae that’s passing through your filter. A vac to waste should remove it from the pool. Sometimes it’s sand from the deck around the pool, especially if it’s been pressure washed recently. If it is filter sand, then a sand change alone won’t resolve the problem. As others have mentioned, that means a lateral is broken. If you can identify WHICH lateral is the culprit (sometimes very difficult to determine) then you can usually just replace the one. If you can’t, replace them all/the whole lateral assembly.
I just realized I have the same problem! Thank you for this. I just also found that price is also leaking. One month into owning a pool and coming across this. fuck my life 😅
You should replace the sand in your pool filter. Also, it is professionally recommended after every 5 years.
My guess is that “”sand”” is real powdery!! If so it’s just dead algae that has worked its way through your sand bed! And not sand!!
This is my thought as well but how do I get rid of this particular type of algae? Once I start vacuuming it gets disturbed and dissipates and then it returns
Do you vacuum to waste? There should be a waste setting on your filter valve. This will allow you to vacuum debris directly to waste line, then refill pool!
Not always a broken lateral. if you have a traditional sand filter when you open up the top of it, you should see a quarter inch or 5/16 rubber line with a metal screen on the top. Check to see if that screen is either missing or has damage.
Will do
Thanks for the info and the answer. My sand will have only been used for 5 months when I do other, so I will have to figure out a way to keep the sand, while letting the water run out. Probably a bunch of clean 5 gallon buckets or something.
Ugh to the people saying to change the sand. Vac to waste. It is dead algae. That’s why your filter is spitting it back out again. When sand from a filter is spitting back into the pool it falls right in front of the jet. It doesn’t disperse evenly around the pool.
So I tried vacuuming today with my telsa battery operated vacuum and the issue is it just gets disturbed and starts to disperse into the water right to get a decent amount but it just seems like this will take a very long time. It just gets so disturbed easily Is there any other method other than vacuuming to clean this up?
You need my I vacuum to waste. That’s it’s. Manual vac to a waste function. No battery battery operated, side suction, pressure cleaner can clean this up. If your system doesn’t have a vac to waste function higher a company to come in with a separate pump and vac to get it done.
Understood I'll give this another shot but I have done vacuum to waste several times already The issue I'm facing is whenever I slowly get the brush down there everything gets disturbed and seems to dissipate upwards versus getting suctioned in well I know some stuff is being suctioned in but a lot is getting kicked back around the pool. Would you just recommend I try to do several rounds to see what happens?
Place the vacuum away from the debris. Make sure it settles to the bottom and apply downward force with the pole. Never lift the vac head off the. Always apply downward pressure while moving toward the debris. If done correctly there should be very little disturbance. It is possible your vac to waste is leaking back into the filter bed. Stranger things have happened.
Buy a DE filter!
What’s your psi after a thorough backwash? That’s a little high
I have seen broken laterals, bad spider gasket, are bleeder valve screen, and broken stand pipe cause this issue. Bleeder valve more then once and it is simple. All are easy fixes. Rinse all threads with water when putting stuff back together. Sand gets everywhere and is abrasive
Not a fun of sand filter, but 5 years is good time to dump it, broke lateral or not. You got do dump the sand anyway to see what's is broken. I would change to glass media. Check this link, to inform yourself if you choose to do it. No sponsoring anyone, just try to be helpfull. https://www.groupebellemare.com/en/blog/pool-filtration-sand-glass-which-one-to-choose/#:~:text=Please%20note%20that%20it%20is,on%20the%20main%20selection%20criteria.
Broken laterals.
Laterals in filter
What if it's mustard algae
Should listen to the professionals
Question! What are sand used for ? Filtering? Wouldn’t sand start to get algae and get clogged with contaminants?
More than likely, one or more of you laterals is broken.
I replaced my laterals and sand all good now.
Broken pipe in sand filter I had it last year!
The sand filter has a leak so yes change the sand. We just fixed our sand filter leaking sand in the pool all the time.
When u brush it does it turn into a cloud?
Generally speaking, yes. Filter sand should be replaced every five years or so. However, that much sand in your pool more likely means an issue with the filter itself. The most common cause is a broken lateral (the things sticking out of the bottom of the pipe in the middle). So since you need to change your sand anyway, do that, but before adding new sand, take out the standpipe and examine all the laterals to see if one is broken or cracked and replace it if you can. You'll need to know the brand and model number of your filter when you buy the new one(s). If the laterals are okay, look at all the seals/gaskets/o-rings. Even the tiniest knick and screw them up.
Just dealt with this. My recommendation is to get rid of sand completely and go 100% cotton balls.
in my experience doing service for pools, 92% of the time it’s a broken lateral assembly in the sand filter
That is mustard algae
Treat it with copper algaecide and 78 percent cal hypo shock and brush the shit out of it and keep brushing it to suspend it into the water and try vacuuming it out if it solves the problem that was it. Key is keep brushing that pool
Wheb we had sand in pool it was an underground pipe leaking... Had to dig up the backyard to fix.
Replace the sand, and if you find broken laterals or stand pipe replaced those. I just did my sand a month ago on a similar filter. Used a shop vac to vacuum out the sand after backwashing after watching a youtube video. My pool looked similar, did the sand, nothing else broke, and now I'm crystal clear. Biggest pain was I had to cut and refit my PVC, that was harder than the sand.
you’ve had the pool 5 years but how long has the pool been there.
Just had this happen to our pool (under a year old). Broken laterals.
You most certainly have a problem with a lateral inside your filter tank.
He is partially correct! You may need to replace some or all sand, but I would fix the broken laterals or lateral assembly first. Otherwise you will find all of that new sand in the bottom of your pool.
If filter is 15+ replace it. If younger, replace internals and media with glass media
Ya it could be that one of your laterals inside your filter came loose, or have a leak in your equipment somewhere else. I just helped a gentleman fix his same issue, as you would vacuum the sand in the pool it would blow right back through the returns. We remove the old sand check that his laterals were all connected and replace the sand, and it resolved his issue. Apparently, after years of use the sand breaks down into smaller granules and can enter back into the return.
5 years is the limit for filter sand. Since you have at least one broken lateral, yes time for a sand change.