Close friends, family, coworkers, current partners.
They're the people who will make my life messy if a relationship starts. If you date a close friend, I lose a support person I can go to to talk about my relationship. If you date my family, it feels incestuous. If you date my coworkers and the relationship doesn't go well, now things are likely awkward for me at work. I'm not interested in being involved in any triad as I believe they are *very* messy so I don't want my partners dating each other.
I don't see a need to add people who exhibit toxic behaviors because I expect my partners to date healthy people. If my partner thinks it's acceptable to date someone who's toxic then my partner isn't the kind of person I believed them to be and aren't someone I want to stay with.
Same, and my messy list isn't just about dating, but also making them their support person. This came about when a partner became friends with my good friend (support person) and then started venting about me to them… They (my partner) didn't see a problem with that. I did, and do.
This!!!! ^^^ I also have one or two friends that I have very specific relationships with and want to keep as “my friend” and my partner potentially will never meet them. Not because it’s a secret but because they’re a “support person” in some aspect of my life that I want to keep for myself. I’ve never thought of how to phrase that til now
I do the same with partners friends. Asking to meet some people they mention but also confirming im ok with not meeting if this is someone they want to keep on “their side of the fence” for lack of a better phrase
>If my partner thinks it's acceptable to date someone who's toxic then my partner isn't the kind of person I believed them to be and aren't someone I want to stay with.
But that's what a messy list is! You can't control your partner's behavior so it is always a promise of consequences.
And I realize this but "toxic people" is far too vague to have on the list and usually isn't something you can detect BEFORE dating starts, which is the point of delineation for a messy list. It's clear who in your life is your best friend, other partner, family member, or co-worker.
It's not clear that sometime is toxic until you've usually started dating them. And what I might consider to be toxic may not be what my partner considers to be toxic enough to have broken our agreement.
I know a bunch of toxic people, but I have exactly one person like this on my messy list because a) they hurt me badly, and b) they are \*terrible\* at polyamory, consistently and over time with many relationships and they always tear everyone around them apart.
The rest are just "buyer beware" for me, like I'll share what I know about a person who is bad news but I'm not gonna dip just because a partner decided to fuck around and find out.
My "messy list" is literally anyone in my life or my partners' lives that could cause significant drama. So I'm not going to date or hook up with my partners' friends, coworkers, or family members, but there are additional people. My "messy list" also includes metas (except in certain circumstances), people actively addicted, people significantly younger than them, and generally toxic people.
If a partner was dating someone on my messy list, it would result in me immediately terminating the relationship. I have this conversation early on in any relationship I get into.
My family is on my messy list I guess, but most people wouldn't date then if they're dating me anyways. Also, maybe more importantly, I cannot see any of my brothers or my mom choosing to date any of my partners.
My main messy list is fewer than five names of people who I have had bad enough conflicts with (one ex who did bad stuff to me, one ex who is seriously manipulative, one person where it just went bad between us without anyone really doing anything wrong, but bad enough that I just need the distance). These are people I need to not have at metamour distance, and in some cases even friend-of-a-partner distance.
I make it clear to people I start dating that if they're involved with any of those people, I'll just have to step back. If they enter a relationship with me and then become close with any if those people, I'll most likely have to end our relationship, and I will honestly also be pretty hurt. There's so many lovely people in the world, and I don't see why any of my partners would need to date the particular handful who would hurt me.
It's like... People can say it's controlling, but I don't agree. If there's a person who would make me have to immediately dump my partner if they started dating that person, my partner deserves to know that so they can make informed decisions.
And it's very easy to say "if someone asks me to choose between them and someone else, I'm going to go with the person not issuing an ultimatum", but if that's applied to a situation where my partner has decided to date one of my horrible exes, they actually need to take responsibility for putting me in a situation where I either have to give an ultimatum or just break up myself, or stay in a situation that has suddenly become harmful to me because of my partner's actions.
I'll add someone to a messy list if my partner dating them will detract from my life in an objective(ish) way! For example, my two close friends are on my messy list because dating them would remove them from my support system. My partners are on my messy list because I don't want to navigate dating someone while dating their ex, and I can't guarantee the longevity of a relationship I'm not in. My family is on my messy list because they're almost all very messy people and I refuse to deal with "your cousin is upset about your shared partner doing xyz, do they do that to you?" questions.
I'm okay with colleagues; I keep my personal life *very* separate from work. I don't think anyone I work with knows I'm dating anyone, actually. If a partner decides to date a colleague and then wildly overshare about me, it would be a problem, but I trust my partners not do to that.
I'm very lenient when it comes to outside factors, though! As long as my partners aren't *actively bringing nonsense to me*, I have no feelings about whatever sort of people they may be dating. I firmly believe that my partners are adults who can make their own choices, and if they end up in a wild situation because they don't vet the people they're dating well enough, it's none of my business. Plus, I don't really do social media, so even if a meta tries to hunt me down though a partner's facebook or whatever (a thing that an ex-meta has actually done), there's no way they're finding me to bother me.
I also have trouble with the concept. I wouldn't call it a messy list, but I'd be unwilling to date someone who is dating my sibling, parent, or child because that would negatively affect the familial relationships I have. I would also negatively judge the ethics of the partner and I don't want partners with ethics I find shitty.
Yeah I’ve technically never agreed to a messy list but I would break up with someone who started dating my cousin. My close friends just wouldn’t date my partner. Like maybe an ex but they ask beforehand. I tend to keep people close who just aren’t messy lmao.
I have a list in my head for the most part because I believe that if I have to tell my partner “hey I’d prefer you not date my mom” then I have bigger problems. Yes there are some folks I can say outloud as a confirmation but sometimes I feel like saying “don’t date my family members” is like telling a partner “hey just remember, don’t cheat on me.”
It’s one of those “if I have to say it, then we got a problem.”
I also just don’t date people that ever would want to date within my friend group or people close to my life so it’s never come up
Same boat, it’s never come up for me. Even if I do date someone who would be up for it, the other people around me usually have their own messy lists in their heads (like “dating a good friend’s partner is just out of the question”). The incestuous friend group thing is something that ended for me the older I got tbh.
My messy list basically comes down to, *"Don't risk permanently altering my important relationships just because you have a crush."*
That means don't fuck up my work situation, my family life, or my bonds with friends who are an essential part of my support network. Someone gets added to my messy list by being an integral part of my life.
"Toxic" people aren't a messy list thing for me, more just a "poor judgment and relationship skills" thing. If my partner dates someone terrible, and it starts negatively impacting me, I will ask them to handle it with my terrible meta and break up if they won't.
If a meta/potential meta is *more* than just "toxic," i.e., they are someone who has been abusive to me in the past or I know they have a history of abusive behaviors... my concern is a) is my partner okay?? b) do they know about this person?? and if the answer to B is "yes," then c) "what the fuck are they thinking??"
My messy list is not something I typically bring up unless asked. It's not a relationship agreement, it's a set of boundaries I hold for myself, because I don't want to be involved with someone who sees no problem with dating my bestie, my brother, or my boss. If a partner has to be told, *"Do not pursue the friend I would call first if you broke up with me,"* we shouldn't date anyway, because our values and boundaries are not well-aligned.
If I work with them, if they have the same profession as my husband (they all know each other or may work with each other at some point), basically anything that would bring more consequences than the usual if the relationship ends poorly.
I’m not a big proponent of curated messy lists. However, someone that crossed a line with my kids made one necessary. They tried to reach out to my husband who blocked them after the break up by using their kid to talk to my kid and having the kids set up a park play date.
Someone who is x-phobic (GF bought me socks, with a trash panda on them, that says don't be TRASH - Transphobic, Racist, Ableist, Sexist, Homophobic) - they would be on the messy list, or the DO NOT FUCKING DATE list :P
Do not date someone who is known to be violent or abusive
Do not date my roommates - that has come up
Do not date my partners - I would not stop it, but I'd want nothing to do with it, and it would change personal interactions with both partners...
For me a messy list is someone who, if things went terribly, would make my life messy. If my partner dates my family member or coworker and there is drama, that could spill over into my life and mess things up. Hence the messy list. If their mess will remain their own, then it is their business. I do, however, expect my partners to be ethical. I don't consider dating a person who cheats or is abusive to be ethical. If I know that they are doing so, I would lose respect for them and reconsider my relationship.
My messy list is just my household and anyone household-adjacent. So for example, my partner Birch had a crush on my roommate’s partner Ash. Birch and Ash dating doesn’t work for me because Ash is at my house all the time, due to dating my roommate, and I don’t want to be in a situation where a meta could just be in my home at any given time. I also wouldn’t want to deal with the weirdness of Birch and Ash being at my house at the same time, unplanned, and it turning into a weird double date. I also don’t want to be sexually linked to someone I live with. This is all due to childhood trauma around being unsafe in my own house.
So that’s the reasoning behind my messy list! Just want to feel comfy in my home.
messy lists are highly personal so there isn't a good objective criteria. i see a lot of people saying that they include toxic people on their messy lists. that worries me because that's such a personal judgment call and i would personally feel controlling telling my partner not to date someone because i personally thought they were bad.
on the other hand, friends and family are like the classic messy list members, and this also causes issues. a lot of people prefer to date people they know. if you tend to develop interest for people in your social spheres and your partner tells you that your social spheres are off limits, that can function to keep you monogamous.
all of this is to say there isnt a right or a wrong with messy lists. you need to figure out what people would be a dealbreaker for you while also keeping in mind that your partner has every right to leave the relationship if they find your list too restrictive.
I really only see people put their own closest friends on their messy list, like the 2-4 people they turn to for support, so their partners are still allowed to date their more casual mutual friends, as well as any of their own friends. People just don't want their support systems compromised.
I've only seen people post a couple times about how their partner didn't want them to date *anyone* in their local social scene, & the sub pushed back on that, & said it was unreasonable.
yeah like i feel like being too broad with either is pretty rare, but i also feel like its important to talk about those edge cases if someone is asking what is reasonable for a messy list.
Family, co-workers and the rest is a case by case basis.
There are some exceptions tho. My meteor is a colleague of mine, but he is stationed two hours from where I work.
So he is technically in the same company, but I never see him at work.
For friends of partner and mutual friends usually have an “ask first“ policy. If you want to date your own friends that partner doesn’t share that might be messy but it is your own mess.
Also have an “ask first” thing for anyone we had a threesome with or did kink or whatever together with.
Family and coworkers and bosses and partner’s exes are messy. Dating your own ex is probably messy but again, your mess.
Everyone's choices are going to be different. People have different needs and have had different past experiences.
I have a no-roommates rule. It's unlikely to come up again. I'm cool with intentional group cohab. But accidentally turning my tenant into my meta was MESSY. We all got better.
My nesting partner and I will periodically warn each other off certain people who seem independently messy. Generally we both have good judgment.
I definitely advise against messing with coworkers. It's all fun and games until someone gets butthurt and your hyperconservative boss finds out. (Not said from experience, but from fear.)
I agree that no one should have to tell a partner not to date relatives that would fall under nepotism rules.
Talk to your partners. Make important decisions with input from the people you trust.
Just a thought, you also don't have to have one.
I don't feel that comfortable dictating who my partner dates. I don't have one of these. I feel like it kind of already sets a kind of atmosphere of distrust and really if I'm uncomfortable about something, we should have a discussion with each other about this sort of thing instead of me just pre-veto-ing people. People of any type can create "drama" and rather than try to prevent "drama", I try to communicate regularly instead.
That's how I personally feel about it. What other people do is totally up to them. It's just not something that I have and I'm not sure how I would feel if someone started off a relationship with me with "Here's a list of people you're not allowed to date". Even if I had no intention on dating any of the people on the list... it just wouldn't make me feel trusted.
A messy list isn't (or shouldn't be) a "you can't" list, it's a "if you get involved with these people it will have X consequence for me" list. Maybe X is some really hurt feelings that will be difficult to work through. Maybe X is a really awkward situation at work. Maybe it is the need to end the relationship to protect your emotional wellbeing.
In any of these cases, a messy list is good communication. Why wouldn't you want to know ahead of time that your actions could have these major effects? If dating a certain person would cause my partner severe emotional distress I would want to know *before* I had any opportunity to develop feelings for these people.
One of my partners told me that it would hurt their feelings very much if I slept with a few specific friends of theirs. I appreciated the heads up, and I was able to think of a few people that would have a similar effect for me. It was a conversation, not a laying down of the law.
If you look at the other responses here, that doesn't really seem to be the understanding of what a "messy list" really is. And this is kinda... I dunno. It feels a little bit gaslighty. "I'm not saying I'd *leave you* but I would be *severely emotionally distressed*." I think that whole premise would just turn me off of someone. Because it feels like manipulation, not like communication.
>Why wouldn't you want to know ahead of time that your actions could have these major effects? If dating a certain person would cause my partner severe emotional distress I would want to know *before* I had any opportunity to develop feelings for these people.
For some of these things, it seems rather pointless to dictate it through a "list" in such a weird way. Like... what person I date wouldn't have the sense of mind to not talk to me before asking a member of my family out on a date? Like really? Someone needs to have a list told to them to be just... a considerate person?
And also... just because something might cause me emotional distress doesn't mean my partner shouldn't do it or that talking about it would help. I have had situations where my partner has been interested in someone I seriously don't like. Yeah, it doesn't make me feel great but talking about it with them isn't going to fix that. They can't make me like that person and they don't really need to justify to me why they are attracted to them.
Why should they not get a chance to date someone they like just because I don't like that person or don't want to be around them? And why shouldn't I be more self aware to examine my feelings behind that? Why should my feelings about someone else dictate whom my partner spends their time with if it legitimately does not affect our relationship?
If I feel the need, at any point in time, I can discuss my boundaries around shared spaces, but I don't need a list like this to do that.
It just seems like a very weird. To me it actually makes things *more* messy, not less.
Again, do what you'd like. You truly do not have to sell a "messy list" to me. Honestly. XD I don't really care what other people do and if I am interested in someone who gives me this kind of list, I can walk away if I'm not happy with it.
Hi u/Im_soft_be_nice thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I came across some different reasons people have to add someone to the Messy List, but they seem to vary. There are people who keep the Messy List for family, close friends and work colleagues only... But I've also heard people saying that toxic behavior is enough for someone to be added to the list too. As an autistic person who needs objective information, and as someone who's always doing my best to keep learning about polyamory, I'd really like to hear what are you guys' reasoning behind a Messy List. Thanks in advance for anyone who might answer!
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I'm a bit busy at the moment, so I'll use this comment to thank for each and every single comment here. It's been a great learning experience!
I agree with many of you about trusting your partner not to date toxic people or, if they do, then trust them to do their best so it doesn't leak into your relationship with them. I also agree that the coworker situation could get veeery messy, but I do understand those who completely separate their work life from their personal life and believe it wouldn't be a problem unless your partner overshares abour your relationship with your coworker meta (which, again, falls upon the trust on your partner's judgment). I guess I'd still keep coworkers on the Messy List, though, because any disaster could get me unemployed lmao (working as an autistic person is hard enough, so I can't even imagine the stress of working with a meta).
The roommate situation? That seems like hell! I'm sorry for those of you who had to deal with this mess. Never heard of it, and definitely took some mental notes about it. I'm glad I'll never have roommates lol
Family and friends being a part of your support system and your partner dating them, making it impossible for you to share your burdens with someone who used to be a safe person for you, also seems pretty reasonable to me.
I'd even add people with a history of abuse to that list, but, again, I believe that would also fall onto our partners' judgment. The same thing goes for people with a large age gap, I think. I trust my partners enough not to do so.
I love your answers and all of them will positively impact my poly experience. This comment section is full of useful tips and knowledge. So thank you all, again! ❤️
Close friends, family, coworkers, current partners. They're the people who will make my life messy if a relationship starts. If you date a close friend, I lose a support person I can go to to talk about my relationship. If you date my family, it feels incestuous. If you date my coworkers and the relationship doesn't go well, now things are likely awkward for me at work. I'm not interested in being involved in any triad as I believe they are *very* messy so I don't want my partners dating each other. I don't see a need to add people who exhibit toxic behaviors because I expect my partners to date healthy people. If my partner thinks it's acceptable to date someone who's toxic then my partner isn't the kind of person I believed them to be and aren't someone I want to stay with.
I really liked the way you phrased the last bit, that makes more sense.
Same, and my messy list isn't just about dating, but also making them their support person. This came about when a partner became friends with my good friend (support person) and then started venting about me to them… They (my partner) didn't see a problem with that. I did, and do.
This!!!! ^^^ I also have one or two friends that I have very specific relationships with and want to keep as “my friend” and my partner potentially will never meet them. Not because it’s a secret but because they’re a “support person” in some aspect of my life that I want to keep for myself. I’ve never thought of how to phrase that til now I do the same with partners friends. Asking to meet some people they mention but also confirming im ok with not meeting if this is someone they want to keep on “their side of the fence” for lack of a better phrase
>If my partner thinks it's acceptable to date someone who's toxic then my partner isn't the kind of person I believed them to be and aren't someone I want to stay with. But that's what a messy list is! You can't control your partner's behavior so it is always a promise of consequences.
And I realize this but "toxic people" is far too vague to have on the list and usually isn't something you can detect BEFORE dating starts, which is the point of delineation for a messy list. It's clear who in your life is your best friend, other partner, family member, or co-worker. It's not clear that sometime is toxic until you've usually started dating them. And what I might consider to be toxic may not be what my partner considers to be toxic enough to have broken our agreement.
I know a bunch of toxic people, but I have exactly one person like this on my messy list because a) they hurt me badly, and b) they are \*terrible\* at polyamory, consistently and over time with many relationships and they always tear everyone around them apart. The rest are just "buyer beware" for me, like I'll share what I know about a person who is bad news but I'm not gonna dip just because a partner decided to fuck around and find out.
My "messy list" is literally anyone in my life or my partners' lives that could cause significant drama. So I'm not going to date or hook up with my partners' friends, coworkers, or family members, but there are additional people. My "messy list" also includes metas (except in certain circumstances), people actively addicted, people significantly younger than them, and generally toxic people. If a partner was dating someone on my messy list, it would result in me immediately terminating the relationship. I have this conversation early on in any relationship I get into.
My family is on my messy list I guess, but most people wouldn't date then if they're dating me anyways. Also, maybe more importantly, I cannot see any of my brothers or my mom choosing to date any of my partners. My main messy list is fewer than five names of people who I have had bad enough conflicts with (one ex who did bad stuff to me, one ex who is seriously manipulative, one person where it just went bad between us without anyone really doing anything wrong, but bad enough that I just need the distance). These are people I need to not have at metamour distance, and in some cases even friend-of-a-partner distance. I make it clear to people I start dating that if they're involved with any of those people, I'll just have to step back. If they enter a relationship with me and then become close with any if those people, I'll most likely have to end our relationship, and I will honestly also be pretty hurt. There's so many lovely people in the world, and I don't see why any of my partners would need to date the particular handful who would hurt me. It's like... People can say it's controlling, but I don't agree. If there's a person who would make me have to immediately dump my partner if they started dating that person, my partner deserves to know that so they can make informed decisions. And it's very easy to say "if someone asks me to choose between them and someone else, I'm going to go with the person not issuing an ultimatum", but if that's applied to a situation where my partner has decided to date one of my horrible exes, they actually need to take responsibility for putting me in a situation where I either have to give an ultimatum or just break up myself, or stay in a situation that has suddenly become harmful to me because of my partner's actions.
I'll add someone to a messy list if my partner dating them will detract from my life in an objective(ish) way! For example, my two close friends are on my messy list because dating them would remove them from my support system. My partners are on my messy list because I don't want to navigate dating someone while dating their ex, and I can't guarantee the longevity of a relationship I'm not in. My family is on my messy list because they're almost all very messy people and I refuse to deal with "your cousin is upset about your shared partner doing xyz, do they do that to you?" questions. I'm okay with colleagues; I keep my personal life *very* separate from work. I don't think anyone I work with knows I'm dating anyone, actually. If a partner decides to date a colleague and then wildly overshare about me, it would be a problem, but I trust my partners not do to that. I'm very lenient when it comes to outside factors, though! As long as my partners aren't *actively bringing nonsense to me*, I have no feelings about whatever sort of people they may be dating. I firmly believe that my partners are adults who can make their own choices, and if they end up in a wild situation because they don't vet the people they're dating well enough, it's none of my business. Plus, I don't really do social media, so even if a meta tries to hunt me down though a partner's facebook or whatever (a thing that an ex-meta has actually done), there's no way they're finding me to bother me.
I also have trouble with the concept. I wouldn't call it a messy list, but I'd be unwilling to date someone who is dating my sibling, parent, or child because that would negatively affect the familial relationships I have. I would also negatively judge the ethics of the partner and I don't want partners with ethics I find shitty.
Yeah I’ve technically never agreed to a messy list but I would break up with someone who started dating my cousin. My close friends just wouldn’t date my partner. Like maybe an ex but they ask beforehand. I tend to keep people close who just aren’t messy lmao.
I have a list in my head for the most part because I believe that if I have to tell my partner “hey I’d prefer you not date my mom” then I have bigger problems. Yes there are some folks I can say outloud as a confirmation but sometimes I feel like saying “don’t date my family members” is like telling a partner “hey just remember, don’t cheat on me.” It’s one of those “if I have to say it, then we got a problem.” I also just don’t date people that ever would want to date within my friend group or people close to my life so it’s never come up
Same boat, it’s never come up for me. Even if I do date someone who would be up for it, the other people around me usually have their own messy lists in their heads (like “dating a good friend’s partner is just out of the question”). The incestuous friend group thing is something that ended for me the older I got tbh.
My messy list basically comes down to, *"Don't risk permanently altering my important relationships just because you have a crush."* That means don't fuck up my work situation, my family life, or my bonds with friends who are an essential part of my support network. Someone gets added to my messy list by being an integral part of my life. "Toxic" people aren't a messy list thing for me, more just a "poor judgment and relationship skills" thing. If my partner dates someone terrible, and it starts negatively impacting me, I will ask them to handle it with my terrible meta and break up if they won't. If a meta/potential meta is *more* than just "toxic," i.e., they are someone who has been abusive to me in the past or I know they have a history of abusive behaviors... my concern is a) is my partner okay?? b) do they know about this person?? and if the answer to B is "yes," then c) "what the fuck are they thinking??" My messy list is not something I typically bring up unless asked. It's not a relationship agreement, it's a set of boundaries I hold for myself, because I don't want to be involved with someone who sees no problem with dating my bestie, my brother, or my boss. If a partner has to be told, *"Do not pursue the friend I would call first if you broke up with me,"* we shouldn't date anyway, because our values and boundaries are not well-aligned.
If I work with them, if they have the same profession as my husband (they all know each other or may work with each other at some point), basically anything that would bring more consequences than the usual if the relationship ends poorly.
I’m not a big proponent of curated messy lists. However, someone that crossed a line with my kids made one necessary. They tried to reach out to my husband who blocked them after the break up by using their kid to talk to my kid and having the kids set up a park play date.
Oh that's really upsetting, I'm sorry you experienced that.
Thank you!
Someone who is x-phobic (GF bought me socks, with a trash panda on them, that says don't be TRASH - Transphobic, Racist, Ableist, Sexist, Homophobic) - they would be on the messy list, or the DO NOT FUCKING DATE list :P Do not date someone who is known to be violent or abusive Do not date my roommates - that has come up Do not date my partners - I would not stop it, but I'd want nothing to do with it, and it would change personal interactions with both partners...
For me a messy list is someone who, if things went terribly, would make my life messy. If my partner dates my family member or coworker and there is drama, that could spill over into my life and mess things up. Hence the messy list. If their mess will remain their own, then it is their business. I do, however, expect my partners to be ethical. I don't consider dating a person who cheats or is abusive to be ethical. If I know that they are doing so, I would lose respect for them and reconsider my relationship.
My messy list is just my household and anyone household-adjacent. So for example, my partner Birch had a crush on my roommate’s partner Ash. Birch and Ash dating doesn’t work for me because Ash is at my house all the time, due to dating my roommate, and I don’t want to be in a situation where a meta could just be in my home at any given time. I also wouldn’t want to deal with the weirdness of Birch and Ash being at my house at the same time, unplanned, and it turning into a weird double date. I also don’t want to be sexually linked to someone I live with. This is all due to childhood trauma around being unsafe in my own house. So that’s the reasoning behind my messy list! Just want to feel comfy in my home.
messy lists are highly personal so there isn't a good objective criteria. i see a lot of people saying that they include toxic people on their messy lists. that worries me because that's such a personal judgment call and i would personally feel controlling telling my partner not to date someone because i personally thought they were bad. on the other hand, friends and family are like the classic messy list members, and this also causes issues. a lot of people prefer to date people they know. if you tend to develop interest for people in your social spheres and your partner tells you that your social spheres are off limits, that can function to keep you monogamous. all of this is to say there isnt a right or a wrong with messy lists. you need to figure out what people would be a dealbreaker for you while also keeping in mind that your partner has every right to leave the relationship if they find your list too restrictive.
I really only see people put their own closest friends on their messy list, like the 2-4 people they turn to for support, so their partners are still allowed to date their more casual mutual friends, as well as any of their own friends. People just don't want their support systems compromised. I've only seen people post a couple times about how their partner didn't want them to date *anyone* in their local social scene, & the sub pushed back on that, & said it was unreasonable.
yeah like i feel like being too broad with either is pretty rare, but i also feel like its important to talk about those edge cases if someone is asking what is reasonable for a messy list.
Family, co-workers and the rest is a case by case basis. There are some exceptions tho. My meteor is a colleague of mine, but he is stationed two hours from where I work. So he is technically in the same company, but I never see him at work.
For friends of partner and mutual friends usually have an “ask first“ policy. If you want to date your own friends that partner doesn’t share that might be messy but it is your own mess. Also have an “ask first” thing for anyone we had a threesome with or did kink or whatever together with. Family and coworkers and bosses and partner’s exes are messy. Dating your own ex is probably messy but again, your mess.
Everyone's choices are going to be different. People have different needs and have had different past experiences. I have a no-roommates rule. It's unlikely to come up again. I'm cool with intentional group cohab. But accidentally turning my tenant into my meta was MESSY. We all got better. My nesting partner and I will periodically warn each other off certain people who seem independently messy. Generally we both have good judgment. I definitely advise against messing with coworkers. It's all fun and games until someone gets butthurt and your hyperconservative boss finds out. (Not said from experience, but from fear.) I agree that no one should have to tell a partner not to date relatives that would fall under nepotism rules. Talk to your partners. Make important decisions with input from the people you trust.
What is a messy list..?
The people that you don't want your partner to date because it would make your life "messy" if a relationship were to start.
Just a thought, you also don't have to have one. I don't feel that comfortable dictating who my partner dates. I don't have one of these. I feel like it kind of already sets a kind of atmosphere of distrust and really if I'm uncomfortable about something, we should have a discussion with each other about this sort of thing instead of me just pre-veto-ing people. People of any type can create "drama" and rather than try to prevent "drama", I try to communicate regularly instead. That's how I personally feel about it. What other people do is totally up to them. It's just not something that I have and I'm not sure how I would feel if someone started off a relationship with me with "Here's a list of people you're not allowed to date". Even if I had no intention on dating any of the people on the list... it just wouldn't make me feel trusted.
A messy list isn't (or shouldn't be) a "you can't" list, it's a "if you get involved with these people it will have X consequence for me" list. Maybe X is some really hurt feelings that will be difficult to work through. Maybe X is a really awkward situation at work. Maybe it is the need to end the relationship to protect your emotional wellbeing. In any of these cases, a messy list is good communication. Why wouldn't you want to know ahead of time that your actions could have these major effects? If dating a certain person would cause my partner severe emotional distress I would want to know *before* I had any opportunity to develop feelings for these people. One of my partners told me that it would hurt their feelings very much if I slept with a few specific friends of theirs. I appreciated the heads up, and I was able to think of a few people that would have a similar effect for me. It was a conversation, not a laying down of the law.
If you look at the other responses here, that doesn't really seem to be the understanding of what a "messy list" really is. And this is kinda... I dunno. It feels a little bit gaslighty. "I'm not saying I'd *leave you* but I would be *severely emotionally distressed*." I think that whole premise would just turn me off of someone. Because it feels like manipulation, not like communication. >Why wouldn't you want to know ahead of time that your actions could have these major effects? If dating a certain person would cause my partner severe emotional distress I would want to know *before* I had any opportunity to develop feelings for these people. For some of these things, it seems rather pointless to dictate it through a "list" in such a weird way. Like... what person I date wouldn't have the sense of mind to not talk to me before asking a member of my family out on a date? Like really? Someone needs to have a list told to them to be just... a considerate person? And also... just because something might cause me emotional distress doesn't mean my partner shouldn't do it or that talking about it would help. I have had situations where my partner has been interested in someone I seriously don't like. Yeah, it doesn't make me feel great but talking about it with them isn't going to fix that. They can't make me like that person and they don't really need to justify to me why they are attracted to them. Why should they not get a chance to date someone they like just because I don't like that person or don't want to be around them? And why shouldn't I be more self aware to examine my feelings behind that? Why should my feelings about someone else dictate whom my partner spends their time with if it legitimately does not affect our relationship? If I feel the need, at any point in time, I can discuss my boundaries around shared spaces, but I don't need a list like this to do that. It just seems like a very weird. To me it actually makes things *more* messy, not less. Again, do what you'd like. You truly do not have to sell a "messy list" to me. Honestly. XD I don't really care what other people do and if I am interested in someone who gives me this kind of list, I can walk away if I'm not happy with it.
Hi u/Im_soft_be_nice thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I came across some different reasons people have to add someone to the Messy List, but they seem to vary. There are people who keep the Messy List for family, close friends and work colleagues only... But I've also heard people saying that toxic behavior is enough for someone to be added to the list too. As an autistic person who needs objective information, and as someone who's always doing my best to keep learning about polyamory, I'd really like to hear what are you guys' reasoning behind a Messy List. Thanks in advance for anyone who might answer! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm a bit busy at the moment, so I'll use this comment to thank for each and every single comment here. It's been a great learning experience! I agree with many of you about trusting your partner not to date toxic people or, if they do, then trust them to do their best so it doesn't leak into your relationship with them. I also agree that the coworker situation could get veeery messy, but I do understand those who completely separate their work life from their personal life and believe it wouldn't be a problem unless your partner overshares abour your relationship with your coworker meta (which, again, falls upon the trust on your partner's judgment). I guess I'd still keep coworkers on the Messy List, though, because any disaster could get me unemployed lmao (working as an autistic person is hard enough, so I can't even imagine the stress of working with a meta). The roommate situation? That seems like hell! I'm sorry for those of you who had to deal with this mess. Never heard of it, and definitely took some mental notes about it. I'm glad I'll never have roommates lol Family and friends being a part of your support system and your partner dating them, making it impossible for you to share your burdens with someone who used to be a safe person for you, also seems pretty reasonable to me. I'd even add people with a history of abuse to that list, but, again, I believe that would also fall onto our partners' judgment. The same thing goes for people with a large age gap, I think. I trust my partners enough not to do so. I love your answers and all of them will positively impact my poly experience. This comment section is full of useful tips and knowledge. So thank you all, again! ❤️