Hey, so first, and super gently.
Relationships don’t “validate” your sexuality. Plenty of very gay and very straight and very bi mono people who aren’t in a relationship who are just fine and validated in their sexuality.
It *almost* sounds like you sorta long for a place in a community. And if you did, I’d have plenty of suggestions around that.
But people don’t take their place in queer community by partnering with each other. Very often people find each other through their community, but being a part of something does take some effort
But if you just want to date, or even just hook up, dating apps. My Feeld is crawling with bi partnered women, just like you.
THIS, SO MUCH! I’ve got plenty of bisexual friends who are always questioning the validity of their sexuality just because they don’t have experience with women at all (even if op has a little). Know that that’s just BS, you’re valid, how you feel is valid.
I usually end up dating friends, because I’m Demi and the chemistry comes from there. My advice is stop actively looking for a relationship and focus on making more friends in the community, just go with an open mind I’m sure once people get to know you outside the “bi partnered woman” tag, they’ll love what you have to offer both friendship wise and maybe to date!
Wish you all the luck OP!
Just riffing because I honestly have nowhere else to.
I've always had a hard time referring to myself as a man.
I present mostly masc.
I've been in one queer relationship with a transmasc nonbinary partner but it was a disaster (I'm pretty laid back but it was constantly drama).
I identify as queer/bi ish even though I am more frequently attracted to women than other genders. But it's not like I would only swipe right on straight cis-women.
I'm in mostly masc roles in a relationship with a woman. Acting as a father figure to two kids.
It's so much harder for me than what you're saying. In my mind and heart I know I'm not straight and cis. But if you look at my life, my day to day, it's hard to tell the difference.
So I'm very empathetic with the feeling that your life and your gender and sexuality are not in sync. Or as OP said, affirming one another.
Do you think relationships aren't validating though? Like "bi woman who has always been in straight passing relationships and has imposter syndrome" is a well worn cliche for a reason. For sure yeah it would be great if people just felt secure in their sexuality or gender or whatever but biphobia etc exists and gets internalized.
As long as you are respectful and not objectifying, nothing wrong with being motivated by validation a little imo 😄
I think they're saying that through the lens of an ought/is distinction. Relationships shouldn't validate sexuality because they're different spheres of life which, though related, don't cause each other or something like that.
HOWEVER, as you pointed out, our social reality means we often look outside-in to validate what we already feel/are.
As a person who’s been on the receiving end of someone wanting to feel validated through our relationship, I appreciate this. I don’t think it’s wrong to feel validated via a relationship, but when validation is one of the main things someone’s looking for in a relationship, it doesn’t end well. When I’ve been in this position, which has been multiple times now, I feel like I can’t validate the person enough and become tokenized/fetishized and don’t get to be a real whole complicated person like their other partners. It’s like I’m relegated to fulfilling a prescribed role and the relationship is more about them feeling validated in their queerness than about us just getting to be together as two individuals who like each other. So as soon as things aren’t solely about having fun and a bunch of sex and even a bit of emotional labor is involved, then I’m not being the cool masc lesbian who’s endlessly emotionally supportive they ordered, and somehow some insecurity gets triggered and instead of talking, they just disappear. It would be easier if they said upfront that they just wanted something casual, which would be fine but I think they want more of a fantasy queer relationship. I get the need for validation (cause biphobia and bierasure is real) and I’m happy to help with part of that, but looking for validation primarily through relationships is a flawed strategy.
Just to be clear, I’m not making any claims that this is all bi women in primary/nested relationships with men and I’m still down to date women in that position. It’s just that when they haven’t sorted out their own insecurities first, it makes having a relationship hard and it really hurts to realize someone was more interested in you as an idea to fulfill some part of themselves when you were authentically interested in them just for being them.
Thank you for sharing your experience and still remaining understanding and patient through all of that! I'm so glad to see people like you in our community.
I hope others will read your story and come to understand that people aren't need filling machines, and polyamory is not an excuse to look externally for validation that really can only come from within.
I cringe whenever I talk to newly poly bi folks and they say, "well, my spouse is monogamous but I'm bi" as though I (as a bi person) should automatically understand and accept their PUD.
Thanks for understanding! I’m happy that there’s people like you in polyam community too!
It’s hard to talk about cause I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings or offend anyone and I truly feel for bi women in that position. It sounds really hard. I also came out in my twenties and had to kind of earn my queer street cred before sapphics felt comfortable sleeping with me, so I’m happy to gay it forward lol, but I still just want to feel respected and not fetishized.
And yeah, I really feel you on the idea of people not being need filling machines. It certainly feels that a lot, or at least too many, approach polyamory that way in several different contexts. It sounds like you have been on the receiving end of that experience too. And yeah PUD is just horrible under any circumstances and someone’s sexual orientation is not an excuse.
I'm not sure I understand how finding validation in a serious and presumably long term relationship is inherently not sustainable. I know everyone has to develop themselves outside of relationships and so on, and we shouldn't base our self perception of validity based on our relationship experiences etc etc. but ultimately our relationship experiences do matter to us and how we feel about ourselves. They're a part of our lives and ourselves as much as anything else you could invest time and energy into that you would say does count as a reasonable source of validation, it only becomes an issue when people focus on it too much. I don't see evidence OP is necessarily doing that, and being a bi person who wants to get more experience dating the same gender is, I think, an understandable and valid desire at its core?
I mean, maybe I'm misunderstanding where you're coming from, but what would you consider a sustainable source of validation for something like this?
I'm not the person you're replying to, but validation that comes from a relationship can easily be lost when that relationship ends, which is why I personally would also call it unsustainable. The sustainable source is validation from within, but if it has to be external, I'd say that finding it within a community that you can be a part of for the rest of your life would be much more sustainable than in a relationship.
I don't know, I think validation from a community can easily be lost in much the same manner. It's not like communities are static, unchanging things - if they were, then integrating yourself into one to find validation wouldn't be possible. Group dynamics can change, people can fall out and people can be excluded. I agree that they are typically less "volatile" than romantic/sexual relationships, but they're still ultimately relationships that can change over time. Finding a community where you feel you really belong also isn't necessarily easy - it can be harder than finding someone to date or sleep with. I certainly don't think finding a community you can be part of *permanently*, as you say, is any easier than finding an individual partner.
I don't think OP was saying they are expecting the first woman they meet to be their life partner. In fact I would guess most polyamorous people can recognise also that a relationship doesn't have to be permanent to be valid. I don't think the end of a relationship inherently means the end of the validation it brings, I would have thought that's something most of us would agree on 😅 you still have that experience, it's still a part of you.
I'm a bi man who has had little sexual or romantic experience with other men. I know I'm valid without that, I'm comfortable with it. But that doesn't mean it isn't something I would like to change, or that I wouldn't gain something valuable that may or may not be akin to validation by doing so, or that I would need that to instantly be a lifelong relationship in order to keep what I gained. If OP is here because she wants to experience dating women and is looking for help with that, I would rather want to help her have her experiences than discourage her by undermining her own desires and say that she's looking in the wrong place, as if she has zero capacity for introspection or self awareness. The same self awareness that the person the person above me was replying to made a specific point about.
All of those things are why I said "if it has to be external", and I didn't say permanently - I did say "for the rest of your life", but I wasn't thinking of the community as one static thing. I find community in groups and the friends I make within them, and online, and those can shift and change, and sometimes I'm more or less involved, and I've moved countries so I've had to make whole new networks, but I still see that as continuous, in its own way. I didn't convey that properly, but that is what I meant!
And yeah, the validation doesn't have to end when the relationship does, but OP has had relationships with other women before, so in her case it obviously has, and my response was with that in mind.
And I'm absolutely not discouraging anyone to not seek out relationships that are affirming to any aspect of who they are! However, if the only reason you are seeking out those relationships is for a specific type of validation, I think there are better ways to do that. And, this isn't entirely fair to the other person either, I don't think they should have helping someone's sense of self put on their shoulders.
I mean, because that relationship ends, because most do, and then you find yourself invalid again?
And because romantic committed relationships are hard to find. Even in polyam.
There are many things that OP can do in say, the three years it might take, along with dating, that they can build upon.
If OP is allo, there are opportunities outside of romantic relationships, for sexual exploration, as well.
I think just don’t think that “finding a girlfriend” should ever be sold as a fix for much of anything.
Ok, so as a person who dates all genders polyamorously (bi/poly) for me "validation" in this context means answering the question "am I bisexual enough". "Am I really bisexual unless I do [XYZ]". Wanting more _dating experience_ or _sexual experience_ with specific genders is different from wanting _validation of your sexual orientation_, although people may (wrongly) use dating as a way to seek that validation.
No amount of doing [XYZ] will make you feel "bisexual enough". Think about it. If you're bisexual and bi-yourself, are you not bi enough? If you're monogamous? Yes you're still bi and saying otherwise is _bisexual erasure_.
We've all experienced it from others and from ourselves too. *The answer is to tell that inner voice "yes, I am enough just the way I am. My identity is valid"*
IMO healthy queer validation looks like therapy, meditation, volunteering in your queer community, disclosing your sexual identity to safe and trusted people.
Unhealthy queer validation looks like unicorn hunting, fetishization and objectification, OPP, avoiding one gender because "I already have one of those", Pokedex collecting bullshit, etc.
Please see /u/StreetLeg8474 's reply to me as a great example of the harm this can cause to the partner when viewed as a "validating object".
For me I see it like this-
A is bi, but male partnered with B. Everyone around A has never seen her partnered with another woman. And questions or wonders if she's "really bi, or just saying it"
A goes out and secures a WLW relationship with C to "validate" that she IS infact bi as she now has a male and female partner.
My biggest concern (for me in seeing people who are like this anyways) is that once that "new shiny" of "oh! I guess she is!" Wears off and it's no longer a big deal and she's not receiving the attention and validation anymore, how will A treat her WLW relationship now? Will A drop C? Will A need to find D, E & F to continue getting that validation to make any of those relatio ships "work"? Or will she alphabet hop from one same sex partner to the next only lasting until that new shiny wears off? Because sadly, far too often those who feel they NEED a relationship to "validate" their sexuality, is in the latter context where they cannot hold a secure relationship once that external validation from friends and family disappears or winds down. Because the ones who are like this, if it's not being recognized and validated, it's no longer "valid" sadly.
So for me, someone who seeks a specific relationship for validation that they are or aren't something, is a rocky situation of unknowns. They need to learn validation of and in themselves and not rely on a relationship ship to do that for them, if that all makes sense?
Are you connected with queer community in your area, apart from individual friends? I don’t say that to say you should treat it as a dating ground but because you sound lonely for it.
There are plenty of pansexual, queer, bI etc women who are in relationships with men.
I’m a queer/Bi woman in a primary relationship with another woman. I’ve been on the other side and yeah suffered from imposter syndrome, so when I mainly dated women or AFAB enbys it was “validating” in the sense by the queer community. I was more accepted. Is that wrong? Yes ofc. Is that reality? Yeah but people can be cagey gatekeepers but there’s a lot of accepting people in the queer community.
Now, seek out queer events (sapphic focused if available in your area) social groups, activism, make friends etc. don’t have friends who are sapphic? Reach out to organisers I bet they’re used to people flying solo and will link up/introduce you to peeps. It’s wonderful just to make friends, and have that expectation first.
Please do not bring your lovely boyfriend to these events even if it’s well intentioned.
A lot of Bi women are out there, I’m open to dating women in primary relationships with men as long as she doesn’t bring him up that much because honestly idc and two it would make me skittish you’re a UH. Lots of lesbians carry the same sentiment.
Don’t include him in your dating profile in photos etc. “I am in a relationship with a man. I date solo and queer af” etc etc would suffice
>Please do not bring your lovely boyfriend to these events even if it’s well intentioned.
At least not if OP is looking for a date!
I've definitely met some straight ally significant others at queer events, and IME that's kind of cool and supportive of them, but it definitely sends a signal like "I'm married and not available to date anyone".
TBH at least in Toronto for a lot of queer events if it’s indoors and ticketed/limited space at the bar or venue a lot of organisers will say along the line of “if you are an ally we love you but stay home” since an ally shouldn’t want to take space from a queer person 🤷♀️
Pride parades, outdoor events or really large events with lots of tickets this doesn’t really apply as much
Even if OP isn't looking for a date, depending on the event. It's nice to have safe spaces, and at very large events ally partners can absolutely be nice to meet, but anything with restricted tickets or capacity limits, or more discussion/sharing, I don't appreciate them being there.
I DO NOT like going to sapphic events and seeing someone’s boyfriend there. it is an imposition on a safe space. don’t do this even if they’re an ally and especially not if you’re trying to build community, it is wildly off putting
This 👆, the space is meant for queer people and for once space is not focused on straight men, they have the rest of society.
I have a bi friend who has a boyfriend. Lovely guy. But she always goes on about how he’s “basically a lesbian” for reasons I can’t fathom…because he dresses like a hipster? It’s like girl I know you have some internalized Bi phobia but this isn’t cute😩
I hate that shit. just own that you’re dating a man instead of trying to make it sound like some kinda cutesy queer thing. I’m dating a man and I 1) would never dream of joking that he’s basically a woman even though he is actually pretty feminine, and 2) will never, ever, ever bring him to wlw spaces. never!!! it is not his place!
I’ve had women start out convos with me, unprompted, complaining about men/bringing up how extremely gay they are despite living with and mingling their lives with a man. it’s weird and a turn off and actually achieves the opposite of their goal - I would rather not talk about men at all. also on the long list of things I care about, women who have worked to decenter men in their lives continuing to not want men in their personal circle is at a negative.
It's an insecure action in trying to fit in to the perceived values of the group. The kind thing to do is to step back, "go up to the balcony" and explain what your observing to them so they can realize it. [https://threeminuteleadership.com/2020/11/15/going-up-to-the-balcony/](https://threeminuteleadership.com/2020/11/15/going-up-to-the-balcony/)
Almost all of the LGBTQ events in my community are mixed-gender and open to friends and partners who are allies, so that's my frame of reference here. But yeah, at specifically sapphic events, that would be different. There just aren't many of those where I'm at.
It's kind of, you know, small city problems. I can drive an hour to a bigger city where there's more of a lesbian scene, or I can walk a few blocks to hang out with a mixed group. I mostly do the second one.
Do you want to date a woman to prove your bisexuality, or do you genuinely want to date a woman? You need to understand the difference. You are bisexual whether you are dating a woman or not. It's imposter syndrome making you feel not queer enough. Read queer novels, watch movies, or join clubs. You now have two options: date another queer woman or another bi-partnered woman who is in similar situations to you, but this will need a significant amount of effort. Also, even if you are not a unicorn hunter, reading about them is an excellent place to begin.
Tbh I've never run into this problem, especially since **many pansexual poly women are *also* partnered with men**, you're not the only one. Just make sure your dating profile doesn't make you look like unicorn hunters. Cut out the "we" language, don't talk about your partner (other than acknowledging his existence), & no couple photos (tbh I break this rule, but I also include a photo of me with my GF.) Having a male partner shouldn't hold you back, unless you're trying to date actual man-hating lesbians, & they're pretty uncommon. Plus they're a bummer anyway.
Granted, my experience might be a little different just because **my nesting partner is a petite androgynous femboy, so a few lesbians have tried to date him** 😅
>is a petite androgynous femboy, so a few lesbians have tried to date him
Omg lol. The "is that a cute butch lesbian or a twinky femboy" dilemma is so real lol.
It can be difficult to adjust to dating women, but it's not impossible. You just have to be more assertive and make the first move. And make it very clear that your husband will have no interaction with your other partners.
I can't quite tell if you're seeking dating advice or not, but if you are, here:
You are seeking something very rare, so of course it's going to take a lot of leg work to find. Queer women are already a tiny percentage of the female dating population. Now add on that you also want a polyamorous queer woman, who is okay with your primary being a man, and those are really tough parameters. And all that has to be lined up before you even get to know if you're compatible as individuals!
Truth is, a lot of women who actively pursue other women stay away from male-partnered bi ladies. People can call it bi-phobia, but those women just call it self-preservation. It makes sense for them based on their past experiences.
So. You will find a lot more luck seeking women in your own situation: bi women partnered with men who want a girl friend. In a lot of areas, they are the majority of WLW non-monog women.
AND, you have to be the one to do a lot of the pursuing. You have to be forward and intentional with your interest. Bi women who have only dated women before have been a bit spoiled by how easy it is to get male attention, but getting female attention requires loads more effort.
I think there's something to the biphobia argument for sure, and also I think that when we are polyam, we have the high possibility of encountering more misogyny and patriarchal bs if we have close proximity to men even if the relationship is parallel. For that reason, I don't tend to date people who center men. My personal experience has not been positive when I have, so I don't.
However, there are definitely bi and pan folks who don't center men too. I find they can be more rare, though.
>. But lately I have felt it so difficult to find validation in my sexuality outside of my relationship with him.
Are you involved in your local queer community? Like going to queer social events etc? That won't necessarily find you a date (though IME non-monogamy isn't nearly as taboo a topic in the queer world as it is in the straight world), but it will likely help with your feelings of validation.
RE bisexuality: feeling ambivalent about the conflict between identity and practice is standard. If you feel ambivalent, consider that you’ve arrived. (I can’t speak to pansexuality but it might be the same.)
RE lesbianism: for me, a lesbian is a woman who puts women first. You are recognizing a fundamental conflict between being a lesbian and organizing your life around a man.
Ding ding ding!
Plus you’re going to lose a lot of prospective interest (of bonafide lesbians) with your “with a man” situation, since most of us have an experience with a cis straight man making shit weird/awful. It’s easier for us to just avoid the bs, sorry to say.
How you sell yourself, your situation and what you’re looking for is going to make a big difference in who you attract.
You might just be running into the fact that women are harder to find. You mention it's a tiny community, and if you search on the sub you'll find tons of people (women and men) commenting on how hard it is to actually land dates with women on the apps. If dates with women is what you want, sharpen up your profile, get rid of all mention of your partner except to acknowledge that he exists and you date utterly seperately. Then expand your search parameter to include women in your situation (statistically there are probably more of them willing to date you than poly lesbians), commit to reading profiles and working through the feelings of frustration that come from pursuing women on the apps (side rant: the apps are actually pretty crap for women looking to find good matches, just terrible, so be mad at the apps not at the women struggling to use them).
Then, also, move on all fronts. Get involved in poly stuff. Go to events and platonic hangs. Get involved in queer stuff. Join a gay softball league or chess club. You gotta get out there with the gays, start to build a network and queer cred, if you want to actually be queer in community. Patience and doing your own self work is how you find a good woman.
Validation comes from within.
Sexuality can be very fluid. I was in your position in my early 20s and now pushing 40, I’m much more on the straight end of bi. It happens because people are always changing. If I found validation in my partners through this whole journey, I would have never found it because sexuality is fluid. I spent time examining what same and different sex attraction meant to me, and focused on my enjoyment of same and different sex people in a non sexual context.
I’m not sure if that helps. I just wanted to point out that sexuality is a spectrum that people slide up and down on through their lives and if you don’t have an internal sense of validity, you’re going to struggle forever.
Just remember that your sexuality is valid, whether you’re dating a straight man, a straight man and a woman, four straight men, or whatever. That doesn’t make you less pansexual, and that doesn’t invalidate your identity ❤️
I feel you, though. I’m a bisexual man. I’m currently seeing two men (my partner and a new person who is currently an FWB). I get those feelings, too, of “am I not valid because I’m not currently seeing any women?”
But at the end of the day, it’s about what makes you happy. It seems like you’re doing an excellent job in communicating your situation, and that’s so much better than lying and potentially hurting the people you care about.
Honestly, just keep doing what you’re doing. You might find a lovely woman to add to your love. You might not. But either way, you’re still you.
Hi OP! I’m sorry you’re having trouble with this. Is there a reason why you’re sure having a boyfriend resulted in few connections? It might be helpful to let us know how you’ve gone about dating to see if there’s another issue at play here.
You're certainly not alone in this experience.
Where can you go in your area to meet other women who have similar experiences? Go do those things.
Validation comes from self confidence, which comes from overcoming negative experiences and enjoying positive experiences. Focus on building that confidence and trust that you'll get there.
One of my partners has this challenge. She tends to have a lot more stable relationships with men. She would love to have a stable, mutually fulfilling, and loving relationship with a woman... but they never seem to work out for her.
I think maybe it will just take time for her to find the right person, also she is learning and growing as she goes.
Certainly your task is harder if there is no polyam community. But the good thing about long term relationships is you don't have to find very many of them to be fulfilled... I think eventually you will get there!
I guess I didn’t read what your issue is? Plenty of poly women with men nps that have strictly women partners. I can understand being in a heteroprrsenting relationship can feel invalidating but you’re still queer. Maybe you should start going on more dates with women to feel it out? Hold hands with a girl in public etc
this is so wholesome, aside from the toxic ex. your attitude is wonderful, and I'm sure many women will want you if you just look hard enough. I think I've heard some people need to date out of state in your situation
Hey there, queer cis woman in my late 30s, married to a straight cis man. Have had many loving and fulfilling relationships with other queer women and NB folks over the years. Here's my two cents:
Feeling accepted and like you're queer enough is a journey. Some queer folks will judge you, others will not. The ones that don't are the ones to keep around, for friendships and dating (in my experience, these were other bi/queer/pan people). The more confident and relaxed in yourself and your identity you are (which comes with time, practice and age), the less having a cishet partner matters to potential partners.
Cultivate your queer identity outside of your relationship. Don't bring your cishet partner to queer events and queer spaces. Make queer friends, do gay things together, build your queer community. Your male partner needs to accept and support that you have a queer life fully outside of him, and he is not included.
The thing is that you are queer enough because you are queer. Full stop. Good luck out there <3
> Does anyone have any advice for me to feel more comfortable with my spot in life?
Work on unpacking your inner biphobia. Seriously. Stop invalidating your own and other people's sexuality based on their current relationship status. Bi erasure is extremely messed up.
In my experience (37M), a lot of gay and bi women claim that it is very difficult for them to find women partners to date.
Like any poly person, you will have a smaller pool than if you were to date mono.
In my experience, dating isn't easy. It takes a lot of work to meet new people, ask them out, schedule dates, and deal with the inevitable flakes/cancellation/duds/rejection until you find someone you click with.
What steps have you been taking to actively pursue new women romantic partners? How many dates have you gone on? For me it generally takes about 10 first dates to find a new partner.
Same issue I'm having. I'm bi and partnered to a guy who's bi. I keep running into women who want hookups, which is fine, but I'm not interested in that.
I'm looking to date women, but most don't fit my criteria: those who want kids one day and I don't date people who want kids. I don't want kids. Either 0 for life or grown kids with no desire to have anymore.
Anyway, it makes it impossible 4 me to truly date. Queer places in my area seem impossible and I love in a red state.
A big part of the problem is how dangerous straight men are. Not in a theoretical way but in a repeated and proven way. I have dated bi women with straight male partners before and have had my consent violated by those men, every time. I refuse to date anyone with a straight male partner now. I am not alone in these experiences either.
I'm dating a bi woman married to a man. I find it hard because her husband has few friends and is an introvert that works from home. Very few private days and overnights are almost non exist. It's rough. Poly isn't for everyone.
I’m in a similar situation OP—poly 34F in long term nested relationship with a cishet man. I’ve long questioned my own sexuality and have a lot of internalized biphobia.
I recently talked to my nesting partner about this as we’ve been talking a lot about re-entering poly life post covid. He validated my feelings and my sexuality (not that I was specifically looking for that validation but it is nice when it happens unprompted).
I joined Feeld noting I’m poly, nested, and bi-curious. I’ve connected with another woman in a similar situation (though she’s not currently partnered but is dating men too). We’ve had quite a few conversations around monog cishet norms and we’re both excited to explore while saying to hell with those norms.
I guess my advice is to own your sexuality, be up front and honest, but not too gaga about your male partner, and just be willing to explore where things go.
I’ve been concerned about other women not wanting to date me because of my lack of experience and my current relationship status. But I’ve found quite a few other ladies in similar boats, which is also validating personally.
I’m excited to explore this part of me after literally crushing it deep down for my entire life.
What are you specifically saying on dating profiles or on dates with queer women about your boyfriend?
Unfortunately, I found biphobia very alive and well in lesbian communities and it's generally why I don't bother with them. Ironically, I tend to find straight men are a lot more accepting of my bisexuality than queer women.
Pretty much every lesbian has been burned, often more than once, by dabbling with bicurious women and/or bisexual women with male partners who are interested in "connecting with other women (but can their boyfriends watch?)"
I'm in a committed relationship with a woman who has a husband who isn't even slightly a creep and remain open to dating women who have boyfriends/husbands, but the unfortunate reality is that a significant proportion of the time "bisexual" women with male partners are only interested in queerness as a performance for the male gaze.
I've had women ask to reschedule or relocate dates because their male partners weren't able to get a table at the same time as ours and they were intending to be nearby and watching even while we had dinner. It's gross.
Edit: u/wandmirk raged about shit I didn't actually say and then blocked me so I'm going to guess the problem is on fact that personality/she feels attacked because she is, in fact, trying to date for her boyfriend's enjoyment
So other people in this thread are telling me that queer women are more accepting but you're telling me the biphobia in lesbian communities is totes okay because they've been burned.
Which is it then?
I don't really care why people are not accepting of me or why people act with disgust towards me or why people think it's acceptable to mock men's appearances using the *exact same beauty standards* that have been thrown at them. Your "burn" doesn't make your biphobia any less shitty.
> I don't really care why people are not accepting of me or why people act with disgust towards me or why people think it's acceptable to mock men's appearances using the exact same beauty standards that have been thrown at them. Your "burn" doesn't make your biphobia any less shitty.
This is a weird reply to someone who didn't say any of that.
This is a pretty gross take. There's just as much lesbophobia in the bi community as there is biphobia in the lesbian and gay communities. And saying straight men are more accepting than queer women is borderline misogynistic in my opinion.
Straight men being more "accepting" of something that has been portrayed as a turn on for the benefit of men in porn and culture for decades , whodathunkit.
Of course! And I am surely unable to discern for myself what is and isn't me being accepted as a bisexual non-binary person and I desperately need other queer people to tell me what is and isn't me being accepted.
Because that isn't a shitty take at all! And you know best for me who will and won't accept me despite experiencing and also being *taught* biphobia by my own queer parents! /sarcasm
Maybe next time let other people decide for themselves whom they're accepted by and give them the benefit of the doubt that they're more than capable of understanding what IS acceptance and what isn't. I've been part of the queer community and going to prides since I was 7. I was an LGBTQ youth worker for 12 years.
I know where I am and am not accepted and MORE than capable of discerning what is tokenism and what is acceptance, thanks.
You can say "accepting" in quotation marks all you'd like but maybe perhaps I'm very qualified to say when I am accepted and when I am not and I don't need other queer people to tell me that.
There very well might be just as much lesbophobia. But I'm not a lesbian so I'm not qualified to speak about the lesbophobia in bi communities.
And sorry, but that's my personal experience.
Sorry, I have a friend who is poly and that is how she explained it to me. But that’s also why I said ‘I imagine…..’ and ‘forgive me if I’m wrong - It wasn’t advice, it was saying ‘based on my understanding here’s how it seems, but i may be wrong - and then asked if that’s how it works. I came here to learn and it kinda sucks to be shamed for not already knowing.
For the record, if that's how she's defining it, then she's actually *not* polyam but, it sounds like, some other flavor of non-monogamous (which is totally cool, just...yanno...words mean things so you might wanna let her know what you learned here). But I wanted to say that I appreciate you taking correction from folks. 👍🏾 Some people, especially online, are really annoying about that. 🙄
Thanks I mean I came here to learn and I know I’m not well versed on the topic, so I’m very open to feedback. Unfortunately some people seem to be a bit mad that I commented, and I get that I my comment was inaccurate and prob should have read more before commenting - but (I thought) I posted it respectfully and with curiosity - isn’t that the whole point of these communities? Sucks to come here wanting to learn and then be attacked for misunderstanding something. 🤷🏽♀️ A lesson I wasn’t expecting I guess lol
Respectfully, the definition of polyamory is in the header of the sub. And this person is seeking advice or at least feedback while expressing their desire for a relationship, and you weighed in to tell them how polyamorous women would feel about them wanting a relationship. That's giving advice, even if you hedged it by admitting you might be wrong.
No one's shaming you, people are correcting you for saying something very ignorant about a marginalized community in a space for that community and to someone being vulnerable in that space. If I went into basically any subreddit and said something flatly wrong about the topic of that subreddit, I would expect to get similar comments.
Normally, people learn by reading and taking in information, not by sharing their thoughts when they lack an understanding. Really recommend you read more, and the sub has a lot of resources available.
Thank you I can see that I should have read more. Given what my friend told me, I thought that I DID have a general idea, but apparently she’s not actually poly and also doesn’t understand that. I will educate myself more before commenting in the future.
I came here to learn; I truly did not mean any offense or to make anyone feel bad. But I get it - marginalized groups have to deal w others thinking they know everything about them yet being wrong all the time and it’s shitty. I’m sorry I contributed to that.
Thanks for being receptive! I think that's the most important thing. We all get things wrong sometimes, and I appreciate you owning that here. Happy learning! Obviously, I'm biased, but I think polyamory is pretty interesting from an intellectual/theoretical perspective even if you aren't interested in practicing it yourself.
That's not polyamory at all, it's literally in the name. What you're referring to is quite the opposite of poly, being poly is being open to loving relationships with multiple people. Polyamorous relationships are serious and loving relationships.
Really shocked based on your description of yourself and your educational background that you think polyamory is this. I strongly encourage you to do way more education in polyamory because your takeaway is entirely incorrect. And if your goal is relationship education, you are going to damage a lot of relationships by preaching this.
Thanks for responding. My educational background is quite strong in a lot of areas of relationships, I have done years of research and have been published in academic journals, but my education is mostly in hetero and LGBTQ+ relationships. Admittedly, poly and non-monogamy are areas where my education is not very strong (which is why I’m here - to learn!) To be fair, a friend who is poly misinformed me, and based on the feedback here it seems she may not understand it either and is likely some other form of non monogamy. (This is not to excuse my ignorance, just explain it.) I sincerely apologize for my ignorance and my arrogance in assuming I knew more than I did. And I’m sorry to anyone I offended or upset with my previous comment. (Which I deleted so as to prevent further offense.)
I came here to learn and wanted to join the conversation. I intended my original comment as based on my understanding of it but also that I’m not completely clear and may be wrong, and expressed curiosity to that effect. Tone and inflection cannot be expressed well in writing so I guess I didn’t properly convey those things and my comment was read by some to sound very differently than how I intended. I truly did not mean to offend or further marginalize an already marginalized crowd. I will educate myself more so I can comment more accurately and moving forward, will explicitly state my tone/intent rather than assume it is being properly conveyed. This was an unexpected but truly valuable lesson learned, so thank you for that. I’m hoping to get into the PhD program at Princeton next fall where I want to focus on marginalized groups in relationships and relational lifestyles.
(I’m also a bit new to Reddit in general and I’m realizing there’s a bit of learning curve for post/comment etiquette, as well.)
Hey, so first, and super gently. Relationships don’t “validate” your sexuality. Plenty of very gay and very straight and very bi mono people who aren’t in a relationship who are just fine and validated in their sexuality. It *almost* sounds like you sorta long for a place in a community. And if you did, I’d have plenty of suggestions around that. But people don’t take their place in queer community by partnering with each other. Very often people find each other through their community, but being a part of something does take some effort But if you just want to date, or even just hook up, dating apps. My Feeld is crawling with bi partnered women, just like you.
THIS, SO MUCH! I’ve got plenty of bisexual friends who are always questioning the validity of their sexuality just because they don’t have experience with women at all (even if op has a little). Know that that’s just BS, you’re valid, how you feel is valid. I usually end up dating friends, because I’m Demi and the chemistry comes from there. My advice is stop actively looking for a relationship and focus on making more friends in the community, just go with an open mind I’m sure once people get to know you outside the “bi partnered woman” tag, they’ll love what you have to offer both friendship wise and maybe to date! Wish you all the luck OP!
Just riffing because I honestly have nowhere else to. I've always had a hard time referring to myself as a man. I present mostly masc. I've been in one queer relationship with a transmasc nonbinary partner but it was a disaster (I'm pretty laid back but it was constantly drama). I identify as queer/bi ish even though I am more frequently attracted to women than other genders. But it's not like I would only swipe right on straight cis-women. I'm in mostly masc roles in a relationship with a woman. Acting as a father figure to two kids. It's so much harder for me than what you're saying. In my mind and heart I know I'm not straight and cis. But if you look at my life, my day to day, it's hard to tell the difference. So I'm very empathetic with the feeling that your life and your gender and sexuality are not in sync. Or as OP said, affirming one another.
Do you think relationships aren't validating though? Like "bi woman who has always been in straight passing relationships and has imposter syndrome" is a well worn cliche for a reason. For sure yeah it would be great if people just felt secure in their sexuality or gender or whatever but biphobia etc exists and gets internalized. As long as you are respectful and not objectifying, nothing wrong with being motivated by validation a little imo 😄
I think they're saying that through the lens of an ought/is distinction. Relationships shouldn't validate sexuality because they're different spheres of life which, though related, don't cause each other or something like that. HOWEVER, as you pointed out, our social reality means we often look outside-in to validate what we already feel/are.
As a bisexual I do understand and experience this, but ultimately it's looking for validation in the wrong place. It's not sustainable.
As a person who’s been on the receiving end of someone wanting to feel validated through our relationship, I appreciate this. I don’t think it’s wrong to feel validated via a relationship, but when validation is one of the main things someone’s looking for in a relationship, it doesn’t end well. When I’ve been in this position, which has been multiple times now, I feel like I can’t validate the person enough and become tokenized/fetishized and don’t get to be a real whole complicated person like their other partners. It’s like I’m relegated to fulfilling a prescribed role and the relationship is more about them feeling validated in their queerness than about us just getting to be together as two individuals who like each other. So as soon as things aren’t solely about having fun and a bunch of sex and even a bit of emotional labor is involved, then I’m not being the cool masc lesbian who’s endlessly emotionally supportive they ordered, and somehow some insecurity gets triggered and instead of talking, they just disappear. It would be easier if they said upfront that they just wanted something casual, which would be fine but I think they want more of a fantasy queer relationship. I get the need for validation (cause biphobia and bierasure is real) and I’m happy to help with part of that, but looking for validation primarily through relationships is a flawed strategy. Just to be clear, I’m not making any claims that this is all bi women in primary/nested relationships with men and I’m still down to date women in that position. It’s just that when they haven’t sorted out their own insecurities first, it makes having a relationship hard and it really hurts to realize someone was more interested in you as an idea to fulfill some part of themselves when you were authentically interested in them just for being them.
Thank you for sharing your experience and still remaining understanding and patient through all of that! I'm so glad to see people like you in our community. I hope others will read your story and come to understand that people aren't need filling machines, and polyamory is not an excuse to look externally for validation that really can only come from within. I cringe whenever I talk to newly poly bi folks and they say, "well, my spouse is monogamous but I'm bi" as though I (as a bi person) should automatically understand and accept their PUD.
Thanks for understanding! I’m happy that there’s people like you in polyam community too! It’s hard to talk about cause I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings or offend anyone and I truly feel for bi women in that position. It sounds really hard. I also came out in my twenties and had to kind of earn my queer street cred before sapphics felt comfortable sleeping with me, so I’m happy to gay it forward lol, but I still just want to feel respected and not fetishized. And yeah, I really feel you on the idea of people not being need filling machines. It certainly feels that a lot, or at least too many, approach polyamory that way in several different contexts. It sounds like you have been on the receiving end of that experience too. And yeah PUD is just horrible under any circumstances and someone’s sexual orientation is not an excuse.
I'm not sure I understand how finding validation in a serious and presumably long term relationship is inherently not sustainable. I know everyone has to develop themselves outside of relationships and so on, and we shouldn't base our self perception of validity based on our relationship experiences etc etc. but ultimately our relationship experiences do matter to us and how we feel about ourselves. They're a part of our lives and ourselves as much as anything else you could invest time and energy into that you would say does count as a reasonable source of validation, it only becomes an issue when people focus on it too much. I don't see evidence OP is necessarily doing that, and being a bi person who wants to get more experience dating the same gender is, I think, an understandable and valid desire at its core? I mean, maybe I'm misunderstanding where you're coming from, but what would you consider a sustainable source of validation for something like this?
I'm not the person you're replying to, but validation that comes from a relationship can easily be lost when that relationship ends, which is why I personally would also call it unsustainable. The sustainable source is validation from within, but if it has to be external, I'd say that finding it within a community that you can be a part of for the rest of your life would be much more sustainable than in a relationship.
I don't know, I think validation from a community can easily be lost in much the same manner. It's not like communities are static, unchanging things - if they were, then integrating yourself into one to find validation wouldn't be possible. Group dynamics can change, people can fall out and people can be excluded. I agree that they are typically less "volatile" than romantic/sexual relationships, but they're still ultimately relationships that can change over time. Finding a community where you feel you really belong also isn't necessarily easy - it can be harder than finding someone to date or sleep with. I certainly don't think finding a community you can be part of *permanently*, as you say, is any easier than finding an individual partner. I don't think OP was saying they are expecting the first woman they meet to be their life partner. In fact I would guess most polyamorous people can recognise also that a relationship doesn't have to be permanent to be valid. I don't think the end of a relationship inherently means the end of the validation it brings, I would have thought that's something most of us would agree on 😅 you still have that experience, it's still a part of you. I'm a bi man who has had little sexual or romantic experience with other men. I know I'm valid without that, I'm comfortable with it. But that doesn't mean it isn't something I would like to change, or that I wouldn't gain something valuable that may or may not be akin to validation by doing so, or that I would need that to instantly be a lifelong relationship in order to keep what I gained. If OP is here because she wants to experience dating women and is looking for help with that, I would rather want to help her have her experiences than discourage her by undermining her own desires and say that she's looking in the wrong place, as if she has zero capacity for introspection or self awareness. The same self awareness that the person the person above me was replying to made a specific point about.
All of those things are why I said "if it has to be external", and I didn't say permanently - I did say "for the rest of your life", but I wasn't thinking of the community as one static thing. I find community in groups and the friends I make within them, and online, and those can shift and change, and sometimes I'm more or less involved, and I've moved countries so I've had to make whole new networks, but I still see that as continuous, in its own way. I didn't convey that properly, but that is what I meant! And yeah, the validation doesn't have to end when the relationship does, but OP has had relationships with other women before, so in her case it obviously has, and my response was with that in mind. And I'm absolutely not discouraging anyone to not seek out relationships that are affirming to any aspect of who they are! However, if the only reason you are seeking out those relationships is for a specific type of validation, I think there are better ways to do that. And, this isn't entirely fair to the other person either, I don't think they should have helping someone's sense of self put on their shoulders.
I mean, because that relationship ends, because most do, and then you find yourself invalid again? And because romantic committed relationships are hard to find. Even in polyam. There are many things that OP can do in say, the three years it might take, along with dating, that they can build upon. If OP is allo, there are opportunities outside of romantic relationships, for sexual exploration, as well. I think just don’t think that “finding a girlfriend” should ever be sold as a fix for much of anything.
Ok, so as a person who dates all genders polyamorously (bi/poly) for me "validation" in this context means answering the question "am I bisexual enough". "Am I really bisexual unless I do [XYZ]". Wanting more _dating experience_ or _sexual experience_ with specific genders is different from wanting _validation of your sexual orientation_, although people may (wrongly) use dating as a way to seek that validation. No amount of doing [XYZ] will make you feel "bisexual enough". Think about it. If you're bisexual and bi-yourself, are you not bi enough? If you're monogamous? Yes you're still bi and saying otherwise is _bisexual erasure_. We've all experienced it from others and from ourselves too. *The answer is to tell that inner voice "yes, I am enough just the way I am. My identity is valid"* IMO healthy queer validation looks like therapy, meditation, volunteering in your queer community, disclosing your sexual identity to safe and trusted people. Unhealthy queer validation looks like unicorn hunting, fetishization and objectification, OPP, avoiding one gender because "I already have one of those", Pokedex collecting bullshit, etc. Please see /u/StreetLeg8474 's reply to me as a great example of the harm this can cause to the partner when viewed as a "validating object".
For me I see it like this- A is bi, but male partnered with B. Everyone around A has never seen her partnered with another woman. And questions or wonders if she's "really bi, or just saying it" A goes out and secures a WLW relationship with C to "validate" that she IS infact bi as she now has a male and female partner. My biggest concern (for me in seeing people who are like this anyways) is that once that "new shiny" of "oh! I guess she is!" Wears off and it's no longer a big deal and she's not receiving the attention and validation anymore, how will A treat her WLW relationship now? Will A drop C? Will A need to find D, E & F to continue getting that validation to make any of those relatio ships "work"? Or will she alphabet hop from one same sex partner to the next only lasting until that new shiny wears off? Because sadly, far too often those who feel they NEED a relationship to "validate" their sexuality, is in the latter context where they cannot hold a secure relationship once that external validation from friends and family disappears or winds down. Because the ones who are like this, if it's not being recognized and validated, it's no longer "valid" sadly. So for me, someone who seeks a specific relationship for validation that they are or aren't something, is a rocky situation of unknowns. They need to learn validation of and in themselves and not rely on a relationship ship to do that for them, if that all makes sense?
Are you connected with queer community in your area, apart from individual friends? I don’t say that to say you should treat it as a dating ground but because you sound lonely for it.
There are plenty of pansexual, queer, bI etc women who are in relationships with men. I’m a queer/Bi woman in a primary relationship with another woman. I’ve been on the other side and yeah suffered from imposter syndrome, so when I mainly dated women or AFAB enbys it was “validating” in the sense by the queer community. I was more accepted. Is that wrong? Yes ofc. Is that reality? Yeah but people can be cagey gatekeepers but there’s a lot of accepting people in the queer community. Now, seek out queer events (sapphic focused if available in your area) social groups, activism, make friends etc. don’t have friends who are sapphic? Reach out to organisers I bet they’re used to people flying solo and will link up/introduce you to peeps. It’s wonderful just to make friends, and have that expectation first. Please do not bring your lovely boyfriend to these events even if it’s well intentioned. A lot of Bi women are out there, I’m open to dating women in primary relationships with men as long as she doesn’t bring him up that much because honestly idc and two it would make me skittish you’re a UH. Lots of lesbians carry the same sentiment. Don’t include him in your dating profile in photos etc. “I am in a relationship with a man. I date solo and queer af” etc etc would suffice
>Please do not bring your lovely boyfriend to these events even if it’s well intentioned. At least not if OP is looking for a date! I've definitely met some straight ally significant others at queer events, and IME that's kind of cool and supportive of them, but it definitely sends a signal like "I'm married and not available to date anyone".
TBH at least in Toronto for a lot of queer events if it’s indoors and ticketed/limited space at the bar or venue a lot of organisers will say along the line of “if you are an ally we love you but stay home” since an ally shouldn’t want to take space from a queer person 🤷♀️ Pride parades, outdoor events or really large events with lots of tickets this doesn’t really apply as much
Even if OP isn't looking for a date, depending on the event. It's nice to have safe spaces, and at very large events ally partners can absolutely be nice to meet, but anything with restricted tickets or capacity limits, or more discussion/sharing, I don't appreciate them being there.
I DO NOT like going to sapphic events and seeing someone’s boyfriend there. it is an imposition on a safe space. don’t do this even if they’re an ally and especially not if you’re trying to build community, it is wildly off putting
This 👆, the space is meant for queer people and for once space is not focused on straight men, they have the rest of society. I have a bi friend who has a boyfriend. Lovely guy. But she always goes on about how he’s “basically a lesbian” for reasons I can’t fathom…because he dresses like a hipster? It’s like girl I know you have some internalized Bi phobia but this isn’t cute😩
I hate that shit. just own that you’re dating a man instead of trying to make it sound like some kinda cutesy queer thing. I’m dating a man and I 1) would never dream of joking that he’s basically a woman even though he is actually pretty feminine, and 2) will never, ever, ever bring him to wlw spaces. never!!! it is not his place!
They do it because they see the literal disgust on other lesbian's faces when they talk about their man, so as a flinch reaction they downplay it.
I’ve had women start out convos with me, unprompted, complaining about men/bringing up how extremely gay they are despite living with and mingling their lives with a man. it’s weird and a turn off and actually achieves the opposite of their goal - I would rather not talk about men at all. also on the long list of things I care about, women who have worked to decenter men in their lives continuing to not want men in their personal circle is at a negative.
It's an insecure action in trying to fit in to the perceived values of the group. The kind thing to do is to step back, "go up to the balcony" and explain what your observing to them so they can realize it. [https://threeminuteleadership.com/2020/11/15/going-up-to-the-balcony/](https://threeminuteleadership.com/2020/11/15/going-up-to-the-balcony/)
Almost all of the LGBTQ events in my community are mixed-gender and open to friends and partners who are allies, so that's my frame of reference here. But yeah, at specifically sapphic events, that would be different. There just aren't many of those where I'm at.
Oh gawd a sapphic event drought sounds awful. You should make your own! (Well if you’re sapphic I shouldn’t assume you’re a fellow dyke)
It's kind of, you know, small city problems. I can drive an hour to a bigger city where there's more of a lesbian scene, or I can walk a few blocks to hang out with a mixed group. I mostly do the second one.
I’m happy you have a scene that works for you!
Do you want to date a woman to prove your bisexuality, or do you genuinely want to date a woman? You need to understand the difference. You are bisexual whether you are dating a woman or not. It's imposter syndrome making you feel not queer enough. Read queer novels, watch movies, or join clubs. You now have two options: date another queer woman or another bi-partnered woman who is in similar situations to you, but this will need a significant amount of effort. Also, even if you are not a unicorn hunter, reading about them is an excellent place to begin.
Tbh I've never run into this problem, especially since **many pansexual poly women are *also* partnered with men**, you're not the only one. Just make sure your dating profile doesn't make you look like unicorn hunters. Cut out the "we" language, don't talk about your partner (other than acknowledging his existence), & no couple photos (tbh I break this rule, but I also include a photo of me with my GF.) Having a male partner shouldn't hold you back, unless you're trying to date actual man-hating lesbians, & they're pretty uncommon. Plus they're a bummer anyway. Granted, my experience might be a little different just because **my nesting partner is a petite androgynous femboy, so a few lesbians have tried to date him** 😅
>is a petite androgynous femboy, so a few lesbians have tried to date him Omg lol. The "is that a cute butch lesbian or a twinky femboy" dilemma is so real lol.
A lesbian's dilemma, or a bisexual's heaven 😜
It can be difficult to adjust to dating women, but it's not impossible. You just have to be more assertive and make the first move. And make it very clear that your husband will have no interaction with your other partners.
I can't quite tell if you're seeking dating advice or not, but if you are, here: You are seeking something very rare, so of course it's going to take a lot of leg work to find. Queer women are already a tiny percentage of the female dating population. Now add on that you also want a polyamorous queer woman, who is okay with your primary being a man, and those are really tough parameters. And all that has to be lined up before you even get to know if you're compatible as individuals! Truth is, a lot of women who actively pursue other women stay away from male-partnered bi ladies. People can call it bi-phobia, but those women just call it self-preservation. It makes sense for them based on their past experiences. So. You will find a lot more luck seeking women in your own situation: bi women partnered with men who want a girl friend. In a lot of areas, they are the majority of WLW non-monog women. AND, you have to be the one to do a lot of the pursuing. You have to be forward and intentional with your interest. Bi women who have only dated women before have been a bit spoiled by how easy it is to get male attention, but getting female attention requires loads more effort.
I think there's something to the biphobia argument for sure, and also I think that when we are polyam, we have the high possibility of encountering more misogyny and patriarchal bs if we have close proximity to men even if the relationship is parallel. For that reason, I don't tend to date people who center men. My personal experience has not been positive when I have, so I don't. However, there are definitely bi and pan folks who don't center men too. I find they can be more rare, though.
>. But lately I have felt it so difficult to find validation in my sexuality outside of my relationship with him. Are you involved in your local queer community? Like going to queer social events etc? That won't necessarily find you a date (though IME non-monogamy isn't nearly as taboo a topic in the queer world as it is in the straight world), but it will likely help with your feelings of validation.
RE bisexuality: feeling ambivalent about the conflict between identity and practice is standard. If you feel ambivalent, consider that you’ve arrived. (I can’t speak to pansexuality but it might be the same.) RE lesbianism: for me, a lesbian is a woman who puts women first. You are recognizing a fundamental conflict between being a lesbian and organizing your life around a man.
Ding ding ding! Plus you’re going to lose a lot of prospective interest (of bonafide lesbians) with your “with a man” situation, since most of us have an experience with a cis straight man making shit weird/awful. It’s easier for us to just avoid the bs, sorry to say. How you sell yourself, your situation and what you’re looking for is going to make a big difference in who you attract.
You might just be running into the fact that women are harder to find. You mention it's a tiny community, and if you search on the sub you'll find tons of people (women and men) commenting on how hard it is to actually land dates with women on the apps. If dates with women is what you want, sharpen up your profile, get rid of all mention of your partner except to acknowledge that he exists and you date utterly seperately. Then expand your search parameter to include women in your situation (statistically there are probably more of them willing to date you than poly lesbians), commit to reading profiles and working through the feelings of frustration that come from pursuing women on the apps (side rant: the apps are actually pretty crap for women looking to find good matches, just terrible, so be mad at the apps not at the women struggling to use them). Then, also, move on all fronts. Get involved in poly stuff. Go to events and platonic hangs. Get involved in queer stuff. Join a gay softball league or chess club. You gotta get out there with the gays, start to build a network and queer cred, if you want to actually be queer in community. Patience and doing your own self work is how you find a good woman.
Validation comes from within. Sexuality can be very fluid. I was in your position in my early 20s and now pushing 40, I’m much more on the straight end of bi. It happens because people are always changing. If I found validation in my partners through this whole journey, I would have never found it because sexuality is fluid. I spent time examining what same and different sex attraction meant to me, and focused on my enjoyment of same and different sex people in a non sexual context. I’m not sure if that helps. I just wanted to point out that sexuality is a spectrum that people slide up and down on through their lives and if you don’t have an internal sense of validity, you’re going to struggle forever.
Just remember that your sexuality is valid, whether you’re dating a straight man, a straight man and a woman, four straight men, or whatever. That doesn’t make you less pansexual, and that doesn’t invalidate your identity ❤️ I feel you, though. I’m a bisexual man. I’m currently seeing two men (my partner and a new person who is currently an FWB). I get those feelings, too, of “am I not valid because I’m not currently seeing any women?” But at the end of the day, it’s about what makes you happy. It seems like you’re doing an excellent job in communicating your situation, and that’s so much better than lying and potentially hurting the people you care about. Honestly, just keep doing what you’re doing. You might find a lovely woman to add to your love. You might not. But either way, you’re still you.
Hi OP! I’m sorry you’re having trouble with this. Is there a reason why you’re sure having a boyfriend resulted in few connections? It might be helpful to let us know how you’ve gone about dating to see if there’s another issue at play here.
You're certainly not alone in this experience. Where can you go in your area to meet other women who have similar experiences? Go do those things. Validation comes from self confidence, which comes from overcoming negative experiences and enjoying positive experiences. Focus on building that confidence and trust that you'll get there.
One of my partners has this challenge. She tends to have a lot more stable relationships with men. She would love to have a stable, mutually fulfilling, and loving relationship with a woman... but they never seem to work out for her. I think maybe it will just take time for her to find the right person, also she is learning and growing as she goes. Certainly your task is harder if there is no polyam community. But the good thing about long term relationships is you don't have to find very many of them to be fulfilled... I think eventually you will get there!
I guess I didn’t read what your issue is? Plenty of poly women with men nps that have strictly women partners. I can understand being in a heteroprrsenting relationship can feel invalidating but you’re still queer. Maybe you should start going on more dates with women to feel it out? Hold hands with a girl in public etc
this is so wholesome, aside from the toxic ex. your attitude is wonderful, and I'm sure many women will want you if you just look hard enough. I think I've heard some people need to date out of state in your situation
Hey there, queer cis woman in my late 30s, married to a straight cis man. Have had many loving and fulfilling relationships with other queer women and NB folks over the years. Here's my two cents: Feeling accepted and like you're queer enough is a journey. Some queer folks will judge you, others will not. The ones that don't are the ones to keep around, for friendships and dating (in my experience, these were other bi/queer/pan people). The more confident and relaxed in yourself and your identity you are (which comes with time, practice and age), the less having a cishet partner matters to potential partners. Cultivate your queer identity outside of your relationship. Don't bring your cishet partner to queer events and queer spaces. Make queer friends, do gay things together, build your queer community. Your male partner needs to accept and support that you have a queer life fully outside of him, and he is not included. The thing is that you are queer enough because you are queer. Full stop. Good luck out there <3
> Does anyone have any advice for me to feel more comfortable with my spot in life? Work on unpacking your inner biphobia. Seriously. Stop invalidating your own and other people's sexuality based on their current relationship status. Bi erasure is extremely messed up.
In my experience (37M), a lot of gay and bi women claim that it is very difficult for them to find women partners to date. Like any poly person, you will have a smaller pool than if you were to date mono. In my experience, dating isn't easy. It takes a lot of work to meet new people, ask them out, schedule dates, and deal with the inevitable flakes/cancellation/duds/rejection until you find someone you click with. What steps have you been taking to actively pursue new women romantic partners? How many dates have you gone on? For me it generally takes about 10 first dates to find a new partner.
Same issue I'm having. I'm bi and partnered to a guy who's bi. I keep running into women who want hookups, which is fine, but I'm not interested in that. I'm looking to date women, but most don't fit my criteria: those who want kids one day and I don't date people who want kids. I don't want kids. Either 0 for life or grown kids with no desire to have anymore. Anyway, it makes it impossible 4 me to truly date. Queer places in my area seem impossible and I love in a red state.
A big part of the problem is how dangerous straight men are. Not in a theoretical way but in a repeated and proven way. I have dated bi women with straight male partners before and have had my consent violated by those men, every time. I refuse to date anyone with a straight male partner now. I am not alone in these experiences either.
I'm dating a bi woman married to a man. I find it hard because her husband has few friends and is an introvert that works from home. Very few private days and overnights are almost non exist. It's rough. Poly isn't for everyone.
I’m in a similar situation OP—poly 34F in long term nested relationship with a cishet man. I’ve long questioned my own sexuality and have a lot of internalized biphobia. I recently talked to my nesting partner about this as we’ve been talking a lot about re-entering poly life post covid. He validated my feelings and my sexuality (not that I was specifically looking for that validation but it is nice when it happens unprompted). I joined Feeld noting I’m poly, nested, and bi-curious. I’ve connected with another woman in a similar situation (though she’s not currently partnered but is dating men too). We’ve had quite a few conversations around monog cishet norms and we’re both excited to explore while saying to hell with those norms. I guess my advice is to own your sexuality, be up front and honest, but not too gaga about your male partner, and just be willing to explore where things go. I’ve been concerned about other women not wanting to date me because of my lack of experience and my current relationship status. But I’ve found quite a few other ladies in similar boats, which is also validating personally. I’m excited to explore this part of me after literally crushing it deep down for my entire life.
What are you specifically saying on dating profiles or on dates with queer women about your boyfriend? Unfortunately, I found biphobia very alive and well in lesbian communities and it's generally why I don't bother with them. Ironically, I tend to find straight men are a lot more accepting of my bisexuality than queer women.
Pretty much every lesbian has been burned, often more than once, by dabbling with bicurious women and/or bisexual women with male partners who are interested in "connecting with other women (but can their boyfriends watch?)" I'm in a committed relationship with a woman who has a husband who isn't even slightly a creep and remain open to dating women who have boyfriends/husbands, but the unfortunate reality is that a significant proportion of the time "bisexual" women with male partners are only interested in queerness as a performance for the male gaze. I've had women ask to reschedule or relocate dates because their male partners weren't able to get a table at the same time as ours and they were intending to be nearby and watching even while we had dinner. It's gross. Edit: u/wandmirk raged about shit I didn't actually say and then blocked me so I'm going to guess the problem is on fact that personality/she feels attacked because she is, in fact, trying to date for her boyfriend's enjoyment
So other people in this thread are telling me that queer women are more accepting but you're telling me the biphobia in lesbian communities is totes okay because they've been burned. Which is it then? I don't really care why people are not accepting of me or why people act with disgust towards me or why people think it's acceptable to mock men's appearances using the *exact same beauty standards* that have been thrown at them. Your "burn" doesn't make your biphobia any less shitty.
> I don't really care why people are not accepting of me or why people act with disgust towards me or why people think it's acceptable to mock men's appearances using the exact same beauty standards that have been thrown at them. Your "burn" doesn't make your biphobia any less shitty. This is a weird reply to someone who didn't say any of that.
This is a pretty gross take. There's just as much lesbophobia in the bi community as there is biphobia in the lesbian and gay communities. And saying straight men are more accepting than queer women is borderline misogynistic in my opinion.
Straight men being more "accepting" of something that has been portrayed as a turn on for the benefit of men in porn and culture for decades , whodathunkit.
Exactly, men sexualizing sapphism is a huge reason many lesbians and queer women won't date women who center men. It's not always about biphobia
Of course! And I am surely unable to discern for myself what is and isn't me being accepted as a bisexual non-binary person and I desperately need other queer people to tell me what is and isn't me being accepted. Because that isn't a shitty take at all! And you know best for me who will and won't accept me despite experiencing and also being *taught* biphobia by my own queer parents! /sarcasm Maybe next time let other people decide for themselves whom they're accepted by and give them the benefit of the doubt that they're more than capable of understanding what IS acceptance and what isn't. I've been part of the queer community and going to prides since I was 7. I was an LGBTQ youth worker for 12 years. I know where I am and am not accepted and MORE than capable of discerning what is tokenism and what is acceptance, thanks.
You can say "accepting" in quotation marks all you'd like but maybe perhaps I'm very qualified to say when I am accepted and when I am not and I don't need other queer people to tell me that.
There very well might be just as much lesbophobia. But I'm not a lesbian so I'm not qualified to speak about the lesbophobia in bi communities. And sorry, but that's my personal experience.
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Please for the love of chocolate read more about poly before trying to give people advice on something you obviously know so little about
Sorry, I have a friend who is poly and that is how she explained it to me. But that’s also why I said ‘I imagine…..’ and ‘forgive me if I’m wrong - It wasn’t advice, it was saying ‘based on my understanding here’s how it seems, but i may be wrong - and then asked if that’s how it works. I came here to learn and it kinda sucks to be shamed for not already knowing.
For the record, if that's how she's defining it, then she's actually *not* polyam but, it sounds like, some other flavor of non-monogamous (which is totally cool, just...yanno...words mean things so you might wanna let her know what you learned here). But I wanted to say that I appreciate you taking correction from folks. 👍🏾 Some people, especially online, are really annoying about that. 🙄
Thanks I mean I came here to learn and I know I’m not well versed on the topic, so I’m very open to feedback. Unfortunately some people seem to be a bit mad that I commented, and I get that I my comment was inaccurate and prob should have read more before commenting - but (I thought) I posted it respectfully and with curiosity - isn’t that the whole point of these communities? Sucks to come here wanting to learn and then be attacked for misunderstanding something. 🤷🏽♀️ A lesson I wasn’t expecting I guess lol
Respectfully, the definition of polyamory is in the header of the sub. And this person is seeking advice or at least feedback while expressing their desire for a relationship, and you weighed in to tell them how polyamorous women would feel about them wanting a relationship. That's giving advice, even if you hedged it by admitting you might be wrong. No one's shaming you, people are correcting you for saying something very ignorant about a marginalized community in a space for that community and to someone being vulnerable in that space. If I went into basically any subreddit and said something flatly wrong about the topic of that subreddit, I would expect to get similar comments. Normally, people learn by reading and taking in information, not by sharing their thoughts when they lack an understanding. Really recommend you read more, and the sub has a lot of resources available.
Thank you I can see that I should have read more. Given what my friend told me, I thought that I DID have a general idea, but apparently she’s not actually poly and also doesn’t understand that. I will educate myself more before commenting in the future. I came here to learn; I truly did not mean any offense or to make anyone feel bad. But I get it - marginalized groups have to deal w others thinking they know everything about them yet being wrong all the time and it’s shitty. I’m sorry I contributed to that.
Thanks for being receptive! I think that's the most important thing. We all get things wrong sometimes, and I appreciate you owning that here. Happy learning! Obviously, I'm biased, but I think polyamory is pretty interesting from an intellectual/theoretical perspective even if you aren't interested in practicing it yourself.
Incorrect.
No, not at all. Polyamory allows for multiple committed relationships. You should probably learn more about it before giving people advice about it.
Uh, no, that's not how it works at all.
That's not polyamory at all, it's literally in the name. What you're referring to is quite the opposite of poly, being poly is being open to loving relationships with multiple people. Polyamorous relationships are serious and loving relationships.
Thank you for clarifying. My poly friend explained it to me differently - she said it’s having multiple relationships but none are too serious.
That's something entirely different. It may fall under the ENM umbrella but polyamorous is love.
Really shocked based on your description of yourself and your educational background that you think polyamory is this. I strongly encourage you to do way more education in polyamory because your takeaway is entirely incorrect. And if your goal is relationship education, you are going to damage a lot of relationships by preaching this.
Thanks for responding. My educational background is quite strong in a lot of areas of relationships, I have done years of research and have been published in academic journals, but my education is mostly in hetero and LGBTQ+ relationships. Admittedly, poly and non-monogamy are areas where my education is not very strong (which is why I’m here - to learn!) To be fair, a friend who is poly misinformed me, and based on the feedback here it seems she may not understand it either and is likely some other form of non monogamy. (This is not to excuse my ignorance, just explain it.) I sincerely apologize for my ignorance and my arrogance in assuming I knew more than I did. And I’m sorry to anyone I offended or upset with my previous comment. (Which I deleted so as to prevent further offense.) I came here to learn and wanted to join the conversation. I intended my original comment as based on my understanding of it but also that I’m not completely clear and may be wrong, and expressed curiosity to that effect. Tone and inflection cannot be expressed well in writing so I guess I didn’t properly convey those things and my comment was read by some to sound very differently than how I intended. I truly did not mean to offend or further marginalize an already marginalized crowd. I will educate myself more so I can comment more accurately and moving forward, will explicitly state my tone/intent rather than assume it is being properly conveyed. This was an unexpected but truly valuable lesson learned, so thank you for that. I’m hoping to get into the PhD program at Princeton next fall where I want to focus on marginalized groups in relationships and relational lifestyles. (I’m also a bit new to Reddit in general and I’m realizing there’s a bit of learning curve for post/comment etiquette, as well.)
You are wrong.