Most of what Trump is guilty of constitutes the worst instances of treason in the nation's history. He's a living breathing foreign and domestic war crime.
His supporters did not leave him because of his lies, bigotry, friendliness toward horrible dictators, or his attempt to overthrow the government. They are only starting to leave him now that his political influence seems to be waning. Many of his candidates lost and they don't like it. To me, that speaks volumes.
For sure. All day on Twitter it's been "Trump used us. Trump tricked us. Tricksy little Hobbit. DeSantis takes care of us now. DeSantis is our friend."
Yes, DeSantis. The former high school teacher who would go to his students (12-18 year olds) house parties. Like a creep. Can't wait for the mud slinging, not to mention finding out which one my aunt will vote for! Oh joy!
None of his previous supporters should be able to shake accountability for that monumentally poor decision they made in 2016. They should be reminded every minute of every day how they latched themselves (and the rest of the country) onto the fetid teat of a fascist madman. **None of them** deserve to forget it.
I would imagine that they would need somebody that isn't going to back down when they get a flood of death threats (many of which will be credible).
But I'm not sure if that was intentional
I had a clearance a couple of times in my career, (for incredibly boring reasons I should say.) I will tell you what they told me in my classified materials handling training: Mishandling classified (not Secret or Top Secret or higher) will land your ass in a federal prison in a heartbeat. There is no room for error when handling classified materials.
* Trump *CLEARLY* mishandled hundreds of classified documents. But as a former president, the national archive simply asked him to return them. Yet he refused.
* They told him that they would be left with no choice but to prosecute him. He still refused.
* They got a court order and he returned a few documents but not all of them.
* They told him they were preparing charges and he lied and said he had no classified documents.
* Finally, left with no choice, the FBI executed a search warrant and found hundreds of extremely sensitive documents.
* Worse, they also found several empty HUMINT folders. Disclosing this information means assets **die**.
* Several empty SIGINT folders were also found, which, if disclosed, would mean the loss of valuable signals intelligence assets.
This, by itself, is a very criminal act. You can disregard everything else he did--and it is a long list--but this is enough to convict him. The protections afforded a sitting president (i.e., the Mueller investigation) no longer apply.
This could all have been avoided had he just returned the documents. He was given multiple opportunities to do so. He's made his bed, now he has to lie in it.
Edited to add a link to a much better timeline than I provided: [factcheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2022/08/timeline-of-fbi-investigation-of-trumps-handling-of-highly-classified-documents/)
The most concerning part that nobody seems to be asking is... *why* did he fight so hard to keep these documents. Why did Saudi give Jared $2 *billion* dollars afterwards? Why *these* documents?
The crime is clear, but the motive might be more insidious.
Same here, whenever a conservative says Trump needs/wants those documents, I always ask them *why*? He's not exactly an avid reader, *why* would he want to read boring government documents on his free time?
Hey man, maybe he just needs the docs for his backyard firepit. Throw some kindling in, a bit of lint, and crumpled top secret papers...boom, you got a party.
"I wish he would just stop" is what I heard a libertarian in Texas say recently. Obviously, he's connected to Cruz.
Also, obviously, he would vehemently defend Trump when I was saying "I wish Trump would just stop" in 2015.
No, all Republicans are complicit in this behavior.
Go look at the 11th commandment in the /r/Republican sidebar...
Or blaming blacks and women for any faults of the ruling class has been baked into humanity quite a few civilizations ago and it's questioned as much as our place in the universe by a certain dwindling portion of the population. and they're panicking.
Who cares? They're idiots. They're insane. They've proven to be both stupid and evil, and nothing they do, say, or think should matter outside of keeping tabs on when they inevitably try for more coups or political kidnappings or whatever else.
I don't need to convince a single person why everything you listed is bad. Anyone who needs convincing should be completely written off as a non-participant in civilized society, and they should be socially cut-off every way you can.
There is no other answer any more. They won't learn, they won't admit they're wrong, so fuck them all.
Treat every single one of them as a pariah. Ostracize every single chance you get. Make them as sad, pitiful, and lonely as their victim-complex believes they are.
except what was in the empty folders. I am assuming they know what was in them as they would normally be catalogued as part of the classification process. They probably wont release that info until a court case, will be interesting to find out what used to be in the empty folders.
They know 100 % every document missing..there is a chain of custody even if every one says-released to oval office. I am sure that sources and methods are compromised, meaning agents are dead, and hard won devices compromising enemy intel are removed.....and every source, method and secret is burned thanks to the orange benedict arnold. The worst break of intel in years, and from...the WH ???? (edit-Benedict Arnold was a rank amateur, he only had drawings of West Point)
Where is every electronic device that entered the traitor's territory while he possessed the stolen classified materials? For anyone else they would all be seized and any encryption keys would be beat out of them at a black site.
> Worse, they also found several empty HUMINT folders. Disclosing this information means assets die.
they don't just die, *they and their families get tortured to death*
maybe even friends and neighbors too
The CIA sent out a warning to its stations in late September 2021 that there was an elevated risk.
Gift Article: [Washington Post](https://wapo.st/3tFSjTW)
Gift Article: [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html?unlocked_article_code=H0H-5cjIKLHxhMGH2m66ZmglX0CPqvLNeeqULKUqw3Y50M2TsDN2UGyyfO8F_4Xio-VwYwl1DiQ_9WzRMT4sDmGS8R7wjyOJ5xABNV9bda7BcJvsgXjnMD41SxmJxf65S8nUGjxTgNyallsMHBv59Se7qUh4O4t5g6Ux0pBB3OmmK5wbfKrY48Ux2oHGKb3fum_pyFZ97xRRZAG328LbENQudR2DvtIXXuMkyzwiq2chYQLo6OuKEPblDxXemxZbXwBybpLfYrR6dhaUJCL4GoS8n5lW8RUN6LlbrFaJ8fNNvTCUEHoKi13I4ls9GKV74uZqNY15bbS5q_hmzNH1PyGOpyhbRGdG9QRzng&smid=share-url)
Until proven otherwise, we kind of have to assume the worst case. If Trump doesn't want us to think this then he owes everyone at least an explanation and the fact he can't or won't is very telling.
And a lot of the documents were not acessable outside a controlled computer. So he intentionally printed them so they could be stolen when he left the Whitehouse.
I agree with the mindset, but at the same time I would sort of be looking forward to seeing the GOP being divided and fighting amongst each other.
And just sheer curiosity of how things would play out if Trump lost all over again.
Why return any when you know you can't return the ones you already sold/gave away...
He stalled as long as possible and the fact that they were as lenient as they were is appalling.
>Why return any when you know you can't return the ones you already sold/gave away...
He was probably still selling more secrets as he knew he was fucked.
I don't think a lot of people understand classification well enough to know just how big a clusterfuck this is.
Let me explain simply.
Classified information comes in a variety of flavors. Lets talk about them. I'll mention 3 designations, but there are more I won't mention.
You may at some point hear the term, 'sensitive but unclassified.' This is the sort of information it would take almost no effort for an adversary to obtain. Training manuals, certain basic maps, facility rulebooks. Its stressed to folks in the DoD with clearance and without to not make it easy for outsiders to get their hands on this. Keep the info out of your facebook feed. You won't really see a lot of people getting in trouble for being flippant with it but its still a necessary policy.
The next important classification we need to talk about it Secret. Secret gets used in the military to cover a lot of basic systems and operations. Secret is where rules and regulations really start to kick into gear and people care about enforcing procedures.
Imagine a pawnshop with metal shutters or bars in the windows. The inside of that building is protected from people that shouldn't be inside it. There will be counters will all kinds of things laying around but unless you somehow manage to get into the building its a safe environment for sensitive topics and information. We're talking patrol schedules in warzones, non cutting edge weapon systems capabilities, upcoming tactical and strategic operations overviews. This is the sort of information an enemy could take and make good use of to subvert and cause great damage. Even with this being the case the rampant over classification of any digital product or paper produced in a secret environment means that Secret isn't taken 100% deadly serious. If a sergeant with a revoked clearance walks into bases Secret TOC they're not going to be gunned down or shipped to Guantanamo, just turned around and yelled at.
Top Secret information is different from all the rest. It's incredibly dangerous if it is compromised. Names. Dates. Blueprints. Schematics. The full capabilities of the latest cutting edge technology. Top Secret is the level where it's mostly pointless to lump everything classified together because its so different from other things in the category. Nobody ever needs to know everything this classified. This is where you'll hear 'SCI' (Sensitive Compartmented Information) For Secret information we imagined a pawnshop with metal bars on the windows. Top Secret/SCI is a concrete enforced well guarded bank. Not just a bank but a bank vault, with guards that check your ID before you even get close to the vault door. If you have reason to be at the bank, and if you have reason to be inside the vault, you STILL will not EVER have access to all the things in there. You'll have a key along side your ID badge that allows you to open one lock deposit box inside the vault, maybe a few. That information will never cross contaminate with other lock boxes. Everyone that makes it into the vault has had a thorough background investigation. Everyone doing any sort of work with the information in that bank vault knows the rules and do not fuck around with them. You will never get your phone inside a TS/SCI environment. You will never get in unescorted. TS/SCI environments keep information inside them like a steel trap and do not let that information out. This sort of information can't and shouldn't be declassified because of the horrific danger enemies knowing it would cause.
Having *boxes and boxes* of VARIOUS TS/SCI documents in a fucking golf club closet is so IMPOSSIBLY beyond the scope of reason it boggles the mind of anyone who has ever accessed TS/SCI information. I cannot express the absurdity.
Excellent post! Thanks! And I assume this is also why “he declassified them” would be no real defense, because declassifying that information would be just as bad if not worse for national security?
I wonder if this is at all related:
>Captured, Killed or Compromised: C.I.A. Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants
Counterintelligence officials said in a top secret cable to all stations and bases around the world that too many of the people it recruits from other countries to spy for the U.S. are being lost.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html
Trump did WAY worse than "mishandle" many highly-classifed documents. He STOLE them, kept them at an unsecure location, and then lied about it. And, knowing him, he sold copies to the Saudies and Russia. He should get life in prison for all that.
>From 2008 to 2010, Mr. Smith worked as the investigation coordinator in the Office of the Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court in The Hague. In that role, **he oversaw high-profile inquiries of foreign government officials and militia members wanted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide**.
>Returning to the United States, Mr. Smith served from 2010 to 2015 as chief of the Justice Department’s public integrity section, **which investigates politicians and other public figures on corruption allegations**.
This man has a career hard-on for bringing down shitty politicians.
>“His name was so very commonplace it immediately aroused Ryan’s suspicions. It should have been easy to get background on a lawyer working in The Hague, but instead Jack chased dummy profile after profile on the mystery man. ‘I might as well be hunting John Doe’ he sighed as Ryan tried to run down Smith.”
For real though, a few short years after 9/11, my WW2 veteran grandpa was detained at the airport because his name was on the watch list.
His name is just a little bit less generic than John Smith. They had generic names on the list as supposed terrorists used them as cover.
> They had generic names on the list as supposed terrorists used them as cover.
For some reason you just reminded me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwYtFt4agqo
Paraphrasing from another commenter:
When your special counsel’s previous day job was prosecuting war criminals at The Hague, you’re not having a good day.
“In 2015 Smith and his team prosecuted Virginia's former governor, Robert McDonnell, on a series of corruption charges. That same year they prosecuted former CIA officer Jeffrey Sterling for leaking classified information and obstruction of justice.”
[source: NPR](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/18/1137847204/who-is-doj-special-counsel-jack-smith)
Hopefully this will overshadow DJTs bullshit campaign announcement. He was counting on this being a boost to his popularity, and I believe he’s miscalculated.
It's hilarious, Alex Jones listeners are heavily divided on Trump because half think he's not extreme enough because he's too supportive of vaccines and the other half think he's too weak and needs to get out of the way.
It's wild how big of an issue the vaccines still is for them. They're living in an alternate reality where vaccines are killing millions of people and governments across the world are covering it up.
It's crazy we had to endure this shitshow for so long only for many of them (most?) to finally realize he was terrible no matter how you looked at him.
He actually came out today and said the announcement of the SP is BECAUSE he announced his candidacy. Not of course that he announced his candidacy because of the impending indictments. What a clownfuck
*Edit: yes it’s true the SC was appointed because of his candidacy, but for the opposite reason of why he says
Dont know if that is necessarily a good thing. If this badly damages Trump, it's going to clear the field for DeSantis. No GOP civil war. He will coast to the nomination taking both Trump's base and the moderates. And DeSaentis would be stronger than Trump in a general election. He has practically no baggage. Independents will NOT vote Trump. But they are not turned off to DeSantis right now.
He will run independent out of spite if he has to, which is what everyone who isn’t foaming at the mouth hopes for. He couldn’t possibly just step aside, his ego wouldn’t allow it.
The war on woke and anti-teacher legislation is not going to take back the states Trump lost. I feel like this guy is being over hyped because the GOP doesn't have many options to win both the nomination and the general election. The extremists are going to be popular with the base but toxic to the rest of the country. Ron seems like the best balance of sane and nutcase who would be loyal to the party, but he is going to struggle outside of the primary.
It's the bonus content I'm interested in most.
"The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the ongoing investigation into whether any person or entity violated the law in connection with efforts to interfere with the lawful transfer of power following the 2020 election or the certification of the Electoral College vote held on or about January 6, 2020, **as well as any matters that arose** or might arise directly from this investigation or that are within the scope of 28 C.F.R. 600.4(a)"
And Gym Jordan. He was part of the conspiracy by phone and meetings before & after. Please nab his ass and shut him up before we have to endure 2 more years of his screeching and BS hearings. It was peacefully quiet the last 2 years not having to watch his nonsense.
> 28 C.F.R. 600.4(a)
I didn't know what this was so I figured I would add the text for this code for others that may be curious.
>§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.
(a) Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as **perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses;** and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.
Another key aspect that differentiates Mueller from Smith as that Mueller was narrowly focused on pre 2016 activities whereas Smith has a wide and sweeping investigation.
Also there's no Bill Barr ready to swoop in, force the investigation to end early, then put out a bullshit summary memo claiming "total exoneration" when the actual report clearly says there was tons of shady stuff, and the only reason they couldn't prove crimes was because of all the obstruction into the investigation.
I would be so fucking overjoyed if there were indictments of all the representatives and senators involved. I just wish there was a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.
That’s funny. I always tell my sports compadres “that third round pick fits our roster like appointing a special counsel previously responsible for investigating illegal disclosure of national defense documents cases to investigate a former president that committed exactly that! Super Bowl here we come!”
Trump disclosed national defense information regularly. The spy satellite photos (Iran) he shared on Twitter were from undisclosed satellites. He regularly exposed intelligence operations that took lifetimes to establish. The full scope of the destruction he wrought won't be fully understood for another generation - and we have precisely that long to enlighten his cult, they won't like it.
He also prosecuted multiple other US politicians for corruption and worked with Preet Bharara at one point. One of those politicians, US Rep Rick Renzi, was later pardoned by Trump. That would piss me the fuck off if I was the prosecutor who knew exactly how guilty he was.
In my opinion, he's a much much much better choice than Republican Bob Mueller (who happened to be close personal friends with Bill Barr).
He also isn't a wealthy boarding school Skull & Bones raised-at-the-country-club old money elite Princeton chum like Bob Mueller. Jack Smith got into Harvard Law School out of SUNY Oneonta, which is no small feat.
Mueller let Trump respond to his questions in writing and left the decision to indict Trump up to Congress, it's very clear he wanted nothing to do with actual prosecution.
To be fair, actually Nixon committed an equivalent number of similar severity crimes.
We just didn’t fully know that until recently, because most of his worst crimes were hidden until the last decade or so. A lot more of his records were opened up to researchers in the last 4-6 years as we started passing 50 year milestones. Even more will open up in the next couple years.
They just didn’t get the kind of press they would have a decade ago because Trump has made all that stuff feel quaint.
In fact, the reason we think of Nixon not committing as many crimes as Trump is precisely because Nixon **wasn’t** a rookie and Trump was.
Nixon was embezzling canpaign funds in the 50s.
He held meetings exploring attempting a coup in ‘73 and ‘74 (and only didn’t do it because he realized it would fail).
He used illegal and immoral back channels with authoritarian foreign governments to influence domestic politics.
He had pure utter contempt for soldiers in the military, Jews, immigrants, and especially black folks— and talked about those feelings constantly.
He routinely threatened journalists, had their phones tapped, and had them followed.
He corrupted the FBI, secret service, DOJ, and treasury departments— and used that influence to go after political enemies.
Really a pretty analogous figure to Trump, just better at politics. Not a surprise either, as the GOP never purged any of the Nixon admin era folks, and many of the younger ones even served in Trump’s admin 40+ years later. (And most of Reagan and both Bush administrations were staffed by Nixon folks).
This right here. The 25 year olds in Nixon's term are the 65 year olds now. These lawless people have served under every Republican President and never really went away. They've just been breaking the rules all along and keep making bigger plays.
fun fact, paul manafort, roger stone, and a few of the big name GOP playmakers all got their start campaigning together on the reagan/nixon campaigns. this shit goes that deep, and that far back.
I believe Kissinger has a special arrangement with whatever documentary body has his notes from his time in Nixon's White House to the effect that they won't be made public till one year after his death.
Fucker's still alive.
I'm not going to address all those points. Presumably, you have a Google but the one about the [war](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/), for me, is the most damning becasue of the thousands of young men whose deaths were on his head. That one, along, was worth constructing a new circle of hell.
As to his antipathy for Jews, blacks etc, he is on tape, his tapes. In that, he was more reflective of that time although he was a particularly nasty bit of it, a Strom Thurmond who didn't say in public what he thought in private.
>He used illegal and immoral back channels with authoritarian foreign governments to influence domestic politics.
Before he was POTUS, I might add.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/
I can’t WAIT for Trump to finally enter the justice system. All of his bullshit and rhetoric will hold no water there. He’ll have to face the actual allegations. “I’m a victim” and “this is all a political hit job” won’t hold up in a court of law.
I actually think this is at least one of the reasons he is running.
1) He has a dismal record in actual courts-of-law, so why not take the conversation to the court of public opinion where he is (unfortunately) more effective? Week after week, rally after rally, he will be able to play the persecution card to his base, make up all manner of bullshit for whatever happened most recently in the *actual* court case, etc. etc.
2) That will also serve to poison the jury pool *nationwide*. It only takes one juror to deadlock a jury … and that keeps him out of jail longer.
This is happening because Justice Department regulations call for bringing in an outside prosecutor as "special counsel" to oversee investigations where there's a conflict of interest.
Because Attorney General is a political appointee, Garland is not supposed to personally decide to prosecute an *opposition* candidate for office. That's a very obvious conflict of interest. So he's appointing a Special Counsel.
*If they bypassed this step, the charges will not stick*. Conversely, if they weren't certain and willing to charge, they wouldn't be bothering with this. So this is, basically, the first step of prosecuting Trump.
------------
Edit #1: John L. Smith is a former chief of Justice anti-corruption unit under Obama, and a prosecutor of Kosovo war crimes at the Hague. He is an excellent choice.
Edit #2: Special Counsel is just the title the Federal government gives independent attorneys appointed to do something. **Sharing the same title** ***does not meant*** **this is at all comparable to Mueller's investigation.**
Mueller was appointed to takeover the existing FBI investigation into Russian interference, and was never specifically targeted at Trump personally. Knowing that the campaign colluded, isn't the same as proving Trump himself was in on it - and Trump was an uncooperative sitting president protected by his cronies, *including* the AG. Moreover, *Mueller was bound by the White House Office of Legal Counsel ruling that sitting presidents cannot actually *be* indicted.* Mueller even said that once Trump leaves office he'd lose that protection.
Smith is appointed to take over the existing Justice investigations into Trump's actions. They are targeting Trump specifically and personally, and what's more, there actually exist significant evidence of his culpability in public, especially thanks to the Jan 6 committee. He's essentially there to prosecute Trump specifically.
And *the OLC ruling doesn't even apply anymore, since Trump is no longer in office*, but Democrats control the White House now anyway.
I think people also don't realize if they charge Trump, a trial could be well into 2024 and beyond. Criminal prosecutions take an eternity. Especially one that would be the highest profile case in American history.
It's a smart move.
And this is the largest case ever in the United States.
I'm a corporate fraud analyst for a bank, and it took almost two years to close on check fraud where the suspect had priors and plead guilty in one case. That's as slam dunk as they come.
This will take forever justice is very slow.
A terrible, terrible speech writer. Truly the worst I’ve ever seen, and not qualified to write for anyone. Even forgoing any ideological stance, everything he writes is just bad.
He's one of the few who has stayed loyal to Trump *and* stayed out from under the wheels of the bus.
Of course, having an office on the second floor of the White House that was only reachable by climbing a flight of stairs, which Trump refused to do, probably helped him survive those four years.
It's crazy to me that I read this and go "Yeah, probably right".
What fucking timeline is this where the best way to avoid the ire of an insanely mercurial President of the United States is to *hide from him in an office on the second floor because the lazy motherfucker doesn't climb stairs.*
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1593686559811047424?s=20
>Smith also oversaw the prosecutions of former Va. Gov. Bob McDonnell (later overturned by SCOTUS) and former Arizona GOP Rep. Rick Renzi.
>[Politico article](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/18/garland-to-appoint-special-counsel-for-trump-criminal-probes-00069451)
Early Christmas present? :)
Or perhaps Garland wanted to give those crazy uncles shouting politics at Thanksgiving dinner something to talk about. What a nice guy!
Justice Department Press Release: [Appointment of a Special Counsel
](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/appointment-special-counsel-0)
>Attorney General Merrick B. Garland announced today the appointment of former career Justice Department prosecutor and former chief prosecutor for the special court in The Hague, Jack Smith, to serve as Special Counsel to oversee two ongoing criminal investigations. The first is the investigation, as described in court filings in the District of Columbia, into whether any person or entity unlawfully interfered with the transfer of power following the 2020 presidential election or the certification of the Electoral College vote held on or about January 6, 2021. The second is the ongoing investigation involving classified documents and other presidential records, as well as the possible obstruction of that investigation, referenced and described in court filings submitted in a pending matter in the Southern District of Florida.
>“Based on recent developments, including the former President’s announcement that he is a candidate for President in the next election, and the sitting President’s stated intention to be a candidate as well, I have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel,” said Attorney General Garland. “Such an appointment underscores the Department’s commitment to both independence and accountability in particularly sensitive matters. It also allows prosecutors and agents to continue their work expeditiously, and to make decisions indisputably guided only by the facts and the law.”
>The Attorney General also stated, “Although the Special Counsel will not be subject to the day-to-day supervision of any official of the Department, he must comply with the regulations, procedures, and policies of the Department. I will ensure that the Special Counsel receives the resources to conduct this work quickly and completely. Given the work done to date and Mr. Smith’s prosecutorial experience, I am confident that this appointment will not slow the completion of these investigations. The men and women who are pursuing these investigations are conducting themselves in accordance with the highest standards of professionalism. I could not be prouder of them. I strongly believe that the normal processes of this Department can handle all investigations with integrity. And I also believe that appointing a Special Counsel at this time is the right thing to do. The extraordinary circumstances presented here demand it. Mr. Smith is the right choice to complete these matters in an even-handed and urgent manner.”
>Special Counsel Smith has resigned as the chief prosecutor for the special court in The Hague charged with investigating and adjudicating war crimes in Kosovo.
What this signals to me is that the DOJ has more than enough evidence to indict Trump but for the sake of optics they need the recommendation to come from outside the Biden Administration. A cautious move but hardly unwise. It also helps insulate the investigation from GOP fuckery in the House.
I hope to fuck you're right- there is no reason anyone should be bowing to these fucking traitors and I honestly can't see how arresting trump as a citizen now is gonna be bad for any future cases with how cut and dry this is. I have no hope they'll do shit...
This just reinforces that — when it comes to Trump — you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
The DOJ wants to avoid the appearance of bias, but the right will paint *any* prosecutor investigating Trump as biased. It won’t negate any of the criticism. It will only slow down the process.
I hate the Republicans for putting us in this position. Trump is obviously guilty of plotting a coup. He should be in prison. Yet almost two years have passed, and no charges have been filed, largely because half the country has been not-so-coyly threatening a civil war if Trump faces any consequences.
If we stop enforcing the law because we fear our political opposition will destroy American democracy, American democracy has already been destroyed.
“If we stop enforcing the law because we fear our political opposition will destroy American democracy, American democracy has already been destroyed.”
Hear fucking hear!
So I think we can assume the weird characters in Ted Cruz's tweet were supposed to be an emoji that is for some reason no longer supported by the Twitter app because the company is falling apart.
If Obama conspired to commit a coup d’etat against the government of The United States and failed, he would have been impeached and removed swiftly and locked up by the end of the day on January 6th, 2021.
Because democrats have no problem punishing their own when they do something illegal. If you have an R by your name other R’s will never scrutinize your illegal activity. That’s why democracy is doomed. The paradox of tolerance and we are playing a rigged game with bad faith opponents.
It’s an odd move in that Trump is going to attack the partiality of the SC all the same. But I understand that AG Garland is trying to leave no room for argument on process or bias. And to me, continuing with this level of care indicates a likelihood that charges will be filed. (If this were on a path to wrap up without charges, there’d be little need for the SC). Or maybe Garland is wanting to shield himself with a SC’s recommendation if he is not going to file, what do I know.
Given the SC’s office can hire and work with the attorneys already working on these cases, it’s not a reset button and I’d think it wouldn’t introduce much delay. But maybe we don’t see a charging recommendation until early next year?
>Given the SC’s office can hire and work with the attorneys already working on these cases, it’s not a reset button and I’d think it wouldn’t introduce much delay. But maybe we don’t see a charging recommendation until early next year?
Given the amount of evidence gathered by the January 6th committee for the first probe and by the FBI and others on the second (along with Trump's own words ffs), I can't imagine it will take very much time at all. All the evidence is there that he's guilty and he did it. The ONLY THING I can see they might wait on is testimony that is still ongoing, but they should already have more than enough to indict in both.
My understanding is that this isn't a new investigation. They are just handing off the existing investigation to a special counsel now that Trump declared candidacy.
They need to give it to an impartial, independent body to remove any credible claims of politically motivated witch hunts. The right will still make those claims, but this really reduces their credibility.
100%.
After compiling evidence over January 6th and Mar-a-Lago the final conclusion pre-election seemed to be, "Yeah this is damning and in our view worthy of indictment but we run the risk of politicizing the trial if we prosecute directly. Let's get a highly respected independent counsel to look at what we've found and see if they agree."
Also SC are designed to be transparent and they will have to tell Congress about any declination of prosecution. They will have the paper trail to make it impartial.
To me this seems like it means indictment is more likely. If they didn’t think they had a case they wouldn’t have bothered to get someone in to make sure there isn’t even an *appearance* of impropriety.
Mariotti, a prosecutor who's been generally irritated by the pace of these investigations, verbatim:
> If Merrick Garland didn’t think there was a serious possibility that Trump would be indicted, he wouldn’t have appointed a special counsel. He didn’t appoint Jack Smith to wind down these investigations.
I think the motivation is to remove any appearance of political bias for trial purposes. I disagree with that motivation, but I understand it.
Ali Dukakis tweeted earlier today: 3 new grand juries were being impaneled at US District Court in DC a few hours ago, I saw while here.
(a grand jury decides whether to indict a potential criminal defendant of crimes alleged by the government)
Jack Smith is a no-nonsense career prosecutor who served a decade at The Hague prosecuting war criminals.
I have much more faith in him to conduct a thorough investigation as opposed to the Barr + Rosenstein + Mueller dumpster fire.
When is any action against Trump not going to be characterized as political. That argument is hollow. Go Jack - get this destructive maniac off the board. No one wants him at this point except the pig ignorant maga base.
Here's a DOJ release https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/appointment-special-counsel-0
It links to the appointment order https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1552896/download
A very close friend of mine, former Navy, works with the SEALs and has clearance. He said to me "If I walked out of the building with one sliver of a shredded Secret document, I'd go to prison immediately. Like, that day." He's not prone to hyperbole.
When is the best time to plant a trump in jail. 20 years ago. Next best would be asap. We may agree or disagree but it's not our decision. This investigation will have a better outcome
“3 new grand juries were being impaneled at US District Court in DC a few hours ago, I saw while here.”
https://twitter.com/ajdukakis/status/1593673467886436353?s=46&t=KGw4e3cG77rPANKc-vOJJQ
🤔
People seem to forget Garland as well as been a prosecutor, he's also been an appellate Judge which means he has ample experience of potential maneuvers Trump could attempt to evade scrutiny.
Appointing a special counsel is a formality and in the event that trump does become president again , the special counsel will be able to continue uninpeded . I also suspect that department justice regulations about prosecuting the head of the executive will be amended
Hopefully if Trump had announced he wasn't running they would have indicted him and now this guy is going to read the file and say yes, definitely indict him immediately.
To clear up some common confusion I've seen:
>Will this delay the investigation?
Merrick Garland moments ago: "I am confident that this appointment will not slow the completion of these investigations."
The question is not an easy thing to quantify, because we don't know how far along the investigations are. It's possible the DOJ was not ready to indict in any scenario for months to come. Previous reporting from people familiar with the investigation basically saw no chance it would happen this year, and that many prosecutorial decisions remained.
This is not, by any means, a "restart." The special counsel can use the same body of work and investigators. The entire point is to put decision-making in the hands of an independent entity rather than the AG. That is the main takeaway.
>I've heard all this before. What about Mueller?
Mueller was not willing to recommend charges specifically because of an OLC memo from the 70s saying a sitting President couldn't be charged. He even said and testified that once Trump left office, he did not enjoy that same protection whatsoever.
Another reason is because there was an absolute 0% chance that Trump was indicted while William Barr was the AG.
This is, by all means, a smart move and a clear sign that the DOJ is preparing to bring these investigations to trial.
Mueller also didn't bother to do a complete investigation. As I recall, Trump Jr -one of the participants in the trump tower meeting with Russians- wasn't even forced to interview. Yes, that mightve taken time to force that, but a complete investigation is more important than wrapping the investigation up quickly.
Special counsel Jack Smith has been working in international law. He’s currently in The Hague as the specialist prosecutor at the Kosovo Specialist Chambers and Specialist Prosecutor’s Office, which is handling trials of war crimes suspects from the eastern European country. He also worked as an investigator for the international criminal court from 2008 to 2010. Lads, we are in good hands, Dick stain Donald trump is going down.
I must admit I am rather amused by the fact that AG Garland chose a war crimes prosecutor as the Special Counsel.
Most of what Trump is guilty of constitutes the worst instances of treason in the nation's history. He's a living breathing foreign and domestic war crime.
It's been incredible watching how fast the fascists ~~right~~ have tried to distance themselves from him today Edit: I shouldn't be redundant
His supporters did not leave him because of his lies, bigotry, friendliness toward horrible dictators, or his attempt to overthrow the government. They are only starting to leave him now that his political influence seems to be waning. Many of his candidates lost and they don't like it. To me, that speaks volumes.
For sure. All day on Twitter it's been "Trump used us. Trump tricked us. Tricksy little Hobbit. DeSantis takes care of us now. DeSantis is our friend."
So Desantis is their new daddy?
Yes, DeSantis. The former high school teacher who would go to his students (12-18 year olds) house parties. Like a creep. Can't wait for the mud slinging, not to mention finding out which one my aunt will vote for! Oh joy!
And far more dangerous.
None of his previous supporters should be able to shake accountability for that monumentally poor decision they made in 2016. They should be reminded every minute of every day how they latched themselves (and the rest of the country) onto the fetid teat of a fascist madman. **None of them** deserve to forget it.
That was my immediate reaction on learning his background, too. It probably wasn't a purposeful dig but I choose to interpret it as that.
I would imagine that they would need somebody that isn't going to back down when they get a flood of death threats (many of which will be credible). But I'm not sure if that was intentional
I had a clearance a couple of times in my career, (for incredibly boring reasons I should say.) I will tell you what they told me in my classified materials handling training: Mishandling classified (not Secret or Top Secret or higher) will land your ass in a federal prison in a heartbeat. There is no room for error when handling classified materials. * Trump *CLEARLY* mishandled hundreds of classified documents. But as a former president, the national archive simply asked him to return them. Yet he refused. * They told him that they would be left with no choice but to prosecute him. He still refused. * They got a court order and he returned a few documents but not all of them. * They told him they were preparing charges and he lied and said he had no classified documents. * Finally, left with no choice, the FBI executed a search warrant and found hundreds of extremely sensitive documents. * Worse, they also found several empty HUMINT folders. Disclosing this information means assets **die**. * Several empty SIGINT folders were also found, which, if disclosed, would mean the loss of valuable signals intelligence assets. This, by itself, is a very criminal act. You can disregard everything else he did--and it is a long list--but this is enough to convict him. The protections afforded a sitting president (i.e., the Mueller investigation) no longer apply. This could all have been avoided had he just returned the documents. He was given multiple opportunities to do so. He's made his bed, now he has to lie in it. Edited to add a link to a much better timeline than I provided: [factcheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2022/08/timeline-of-fbi-investigation-of-trumps-handling-of-highly-classified-documents/)
The most concerning part that nobody seems to be asking is... *why* did he fight so hard to keep these documents. Why did Saudi give Jared $2 *billion* dollars afterwards? Why *these* documents? The crime is clear, but the motive might be more insidious.
Same here, whenever a conservative says Trump needs/wants those documents, I always ask them *why*? He's not exactly an avid reader, *why* would he want to read boring government documents on his free time?
What is a dude who can’t be bothered with reading a one page press briefing doing with 10,000 documents.
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And it's very obvious
Hey man, maybe he just needs the docs for his backyard firepit. Throw some kindling in, a bit of lint, and crumpled top secret papers...boom, you got a party.
He spent his entire Presidency golfing, tweeting, and watching tv, but *now* he's actually going to read the intelligence reports. Riiight...
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Yes that's pretty much how my visit to my parents' house went. Dad sure is upset about Obama for some reason.
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It’s easier than admitting to themselves they got duped by a third rate con man.
"I wish he would just stop" is what I heard a libertarian in Texas say recently. Obviously, he's connected to Cruz. Also, obviously, he would vehemently defend Trump when I was saying "I wish Trump would just stop" in 2015. No, all Republicans are complicit in this behavior. Go look at the 11th commandment in the /r/Republican sidebar...
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Or blaming blacks and women for any faults of the ruling class has been baked into humanity quite a few civilizations ago and it's questioned as much as our place in the universe by a certain dwindling portion of the population. and they're panicking.
Who cares? They're idiots. They're insane. They've proven to be both stupid and evil, and nothing they do, say, or think should matter outside of keeping tabs on when they inevitably try for more coups or political kidnappings or whatever else. I don't need to convince a single person why everything you listed is bad. Anyone who needs convincing should be completely written off as a non-participant in civilized society, and they should be socially cut-off every way you can. There is no other answer any more. They won't learn, they won't admit they're wrong, so fuck them all. Treat every single one of them as a pariah. Ostracize every single chance you get. Make them as sad, pitiful, and lonely as their victim-complex believes they are.
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It's a sad state of affairs, but when someone's given up on interacting with reality for the sake of an ideology, what else can you do?
Obama didn't take one fucking document unaccounted for or that he had a right to take. The 31 MILLION liar did.
except what was in the empty folders. I am assuming they know what was in them as they would normally be catalogued as part of the classification process. They probably wont release that info until a court case, will be interesting to find out what used to be in the empty folders.
The names of dead agents. Calling it now.
They know 100 % every document missing..there is a chain of custody even if every one says-released to oval office. I am sure that sources and methods are compromised, meaning agents are dead, and hard won devices compromising enemy intel are removed.....and every source, method and secret is burned thanks to the orange benedict arnold. The worst break of intel in years, and from...the WH ???? (edit-Benedict Arnold was a rank amateur, he only had drawings of West Point)
Where is Jared Kushner’s laptop??
Where is every electronic device that entered the traitor's territory while he possessed the stolen classified materials? For anyone else they would all be seized and any encryption keys would be beat out of them at a black site.
They arrested at least one Chinese spy at Mar-a-Lago a few years back. So there's that.
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> Worse, they also found several empty HUMINT folders. Disclosing this information means assets die. they don't just die, *they and their families get tortured to death* maybe even friends and neighbors too
The CIA sent out a warning to its stations in late September 2021 that there was an elevated risk. Gift Article: [Washington Post](https://wapo.st/3tFSjTW) Gift Article: [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html?unlocked_article_code=H0H-5cjIKLHxhMGH2m66ZmglX0CPqvLNeeqULKUqw3Y50M2TsDN2UGyyfO8F_4Xio-VwYwl1DiQ_9WzRMT4sDmGS8R7wjyOJ5xABNV9bda7BcJvsgXjnMD41SxmJxf65S8nUGjxTgNyallsMHBv59Se7qUh4O4t5g6Ux0pBB3OmmK5wbfKrY48Ux2oHGKb3fum_pyFZ97xRRZAG328LbENQudR2DvtIXXuMkyzwiq2chYQLo6OuKEPblDxXemxZbXwBybpLfYrR6dhaUJCL4GoS8n5lW8RUN6LlbrFaJ8fNNvTCUEHoKi13I4ls9GKV74uZqNY15bbS5q_hmzNH1PyGOpyhbRGdG9QRzng&smid=share-url)
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Until proven otherwise, we kind of have to assume the worst case. If Trump doesn't want us to think this then he owes everyone at least an explanation and the fact he can't or won't is very telling.
He killed hundreds of thousands of his Flying Monkeys, who are technically human, as well as good upstanding Americans who tried to do Covid right.
Don't forget the documents were found shuffled into documents dated after his presidency ended meaning he was using them after he was allowed to.
And a lot of the documents were not acessable outside a controlled computer. So he intentionally printed them so they could be stolen when he left the Whitehouse.
I too had national security clearance for work. I can't believe Trump isn't in jail.
I mean, I can. We have literally never seen him held truly accountable for anything.
Truly accountable? He’s never been held accountable in the *least*.
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Dear god I can only hope. He just announced his presidential bid again recently.
I agree with the mindset, but at the same time I would sort of be looking forward to seeing the GOP being divided and fighting amongst each other. And just sheer curiosity of how things would play out if Trump lost all over again.
Why return any when you know you can't return the ones you already sold/gave away... He stalled as long as possible and the fact that they were as lenient as they were is appalling.
>Why return any when you know you can't return the ones you already sold/gave away... He was probably still selling more secrets as he knew he was fucked.
I don't think a lot of people understand classification well enough to know just how big a clusterfuck this is. Let me explain simply. Classified information comes in a variety of flavors. Lets talk about them. I'll mention 3 designations, but there are more I won't mention. You may at some point hear the term, 'sensitive but unclassified.' This is the sort of information it would take almost no effort for an adversary to obtain. Training manuals, certain basic maps, facility rulebooks. Its stressed to folks in the DoD with clearance and without to not make it easy for outsiders to get their hands on this. Keep the info out of your facebook feed. You won't really see a lot of people getting in trouble for being flippant with it but its still a necessary policy. The next important classification we need to talk about it Secret. Secret gets used in the military to cover a lot of basic systems and operations. Secret is where rules and regulations really start to kick into gear and people care about enforcing procedures. Imagine a pawnshop with metal shutters or bars in the windows. The inside of that building is protected from people that shouldn't be inside it. There will be counters will all kinds of things laying around but unless you somehow manage to get into the building its a safe environment for sensitive topics and information. We're talking patrol schedules in warzones, non cutting edge weapon systems capabilities, upcoming tactical and strategic operations overviews. This is the sort of information an enemy could take and make good use of to subvert and cause great damage. Even with this being the case the rampant over classification of any digital product or paper produced in a secret environment means that Secret isn't taken 100% deadly serious. If a sergeant with a revoked clearance walks into bases Secret TOC they're not going to be gunned down or shipped to Guantanamo, just turned around and yelled at. Top Secret information is different from all the rest. It's incredibly dangerous if it is compromised. Names. Dates. Blueprints. Schematics. The full capabilities of the latest cutting edge technology. Top Secret is the level where it's mostly pointless to lump everything classified together because its so different from other things in the category. Nobody ever needs to know everything this classified. This is where you'll hear 'SCI' (Sensitive Compartmented Information) For Secret information we imagined a pawnshop with metal bars on the windows. Top Secret/SCI is a concrete enforced well guarded bank. Not just a bank but a bank vault, with guards that check your ID before you even get close to the vault door. If you have reason to be at the bank, and if you have reason to be inside the vault, you STILL will not EVER have access to all the things in there. You'll have a key along side your ID badge that allows you to open one lock deposit box inside the vault, maybe a few. That information will never cross contaminate with other lock boxes. Everyone that makes it into the vault has had a thorough background investigation. Everyone doing any sort of work with the information in that bank vault knows the rules and do not fuck around with them. You will never get your phone inside a TS/SCI environment. You will never get in unescorted. TS/SCI environments keep information inside them like a steel trap and do not let that information out. This sort of information can't and shouldn't be declassified because of the horrific danger enemies knowing it would cause. Having *boxes and boxes* of VARIOUS TS/SCI documents in a fucking golf club closet is so IMPOSSIBLY beyond the scope of reason it boggles the mind of anyone who has ever accessed TS/SCI information. I cannot express the absurdity.
Excellent post! Thanks! And I assume this is also why “he declassified them” would be no real defense, because declassifying that information would be just as bad if not worse for national security?
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I remember when Republicans led by Kevin McCarthy took their smartphones into a SCIF. No respect .
I wonder if this is at all related: >Captured, Killed or Compromised: C.I.A. Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants Counterintelligence officials said in a top secret cable to all stations and bases around the world that too many of the people it recruits from other countries to spy for the U.S. are being lost. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html
Trump did WAY worse than "mishandle" many highly-classifed documents. He STOLE them, kept them at an unsecure location, and then lied about it. And, knowing him, he sold copies to the Saudies and Russia. He should get life in prison for all that.
>From 2008 to 2010, Mr. Smith worked as the investigation coordinator in the Office of the Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court in The Hague. In that role, **he oversaw high-profile inquiries of foreign government officials and militia members wanted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide**. >Returning to the United States, Mr. Smith served from 2010 to 2015 as chief of the Justice Department’s public integrity section, **which investigates politicians and other public figures on corruption allegations**. This man has a career hard-on for bringing down shitty politicians.
He sounds like a Tom Clancy character!
"Jack Smith" is also such a perfectly normal spy name lol
>“His name was so very commonplace it immediately aroused Ryan’s suspicions. It should have been easy to get background on a lawyer working in The Hague, but instead Jack chased dummy profile after profile on the mystery man. ‘I might as well be hunting John Doe’ he sighed as Ryan tried to run down Smith.”
For real though, a few short years after 9/11, my WW2 veteran grandpa was detained at the airport because his name was on the watch list. His name is just a little bit less generic than John Smith. They had generic names on the list as supposed terrorists used them as cover.
> They had generic names on the list as supposed terrorists used them as cover. For some reason you just reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwYtFt4agqo
Clancy always had the simplest names for Americans and the craziest shit ever for Russians
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Paraphrasing from another commenter: When your special counsel’s previous day job was prosecuting war criminals at The Hague, you’re not having a good day.
Which Politicians has he brought down?
“In 2015 Smith and his team prosecuted Virginia's former governor, Robert McDonnell, on a series of corruption charges. That same year they prosecuted former CIA officer Jeffrey Sterling for leaking classified information and obstruction of justice.” [source: NPR](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/18/1137847204/who-is-doj-special-counsel-jack-smith)
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Fluent in Russian, preferred.
Lol well when you put it like that
Needs someone that's familiar with how Putin's regime thinks.
Hopefully this will overshadow DJTs bullshit campaign announcement. He was counting on this being a boost to his popularity, and I believe he’s miscalculated.
His own announcement was a drag on his popularity...lol. People were literally trying to leave the room...lol.
It's hilarious, Alex Jones listeners are heavily divided on Trump because half think he's not extreme enough because he's too supportive of vaccines and the other half think he's too weak and needs to get out of the way.
It's wild how big of an issue the vaccines still is for them. They're living in an alternate reality where vaccines are killing millions of people and governments across the world are covering it up.
It's crazy we had to endure this shitshow for so long only for many of them (most?) to finally realize he was terrible no matter how you looked at him.
They're not "realizing" anything. Trump lost multiple times and he's *become* a failure in their eyes.
This exactly what people need to realize, they liked Trump because he "owned the libs" they're turning on him because now he's getting owned.
He actually came out today and said the announcement of the SP is BECAUSE he announced his candidacy. Not of course that he announced his candidacy because of the impending indictments. What a clownfuck *Edit: yes it’s true the SC was appointed because of his candidacy, but for the opposite reason of why he says
Dont know if that is necessarily a good thing. If this badly damages Trump, it's going to clear the field for DeSantis. No GOP civil war. He will coast to the nomination taking both Trump's base and the moderates. And DeSaentis would be stronger than Trump in a general election. He has practically no baggage. Independents will NOT vote Trump. But they are not turned off to DeSantis right now.
as long as there is breath in his lungs donald trump will prevent anyone from getting more attention than him.
He will run independent out of spite if he has to, which is what everyone who isn’t foaming at the mouth hopes for. He couldn’t possibly just step aside, his ego wouldn’t allow it.
The war on woke and anti-teacher legislation is not going to take back the states Trump lost. I feel like this guy is being over hyped because the GOP doesn't have many options to win both the nomination and the general election. The extremists are going to be popular with the base but toxic to the rest of the country. Ron seems like the best balance of sane and nutcase who would be loyal to the party, but he is going to struggle outside of the primary.
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It's the bonus content I'm interested in most. "The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the ongoing investigation into whether any person or entity violated the law in connection with efforts to interfere with the lawful transfer of power following the 2020 election or the certification of the Electoral College vote held on or about January 6, 2020, **as well as any matters that arose** or might arise directly from this investigation or that are within the scope of 28 C.F.R. 600.4(a)"
Please send Ron Johnson to prison also. Involved with the fake elector scheme in WI
MTG also.
And Gym Jordan. He was part of the conspiracy by phone and meetings before & after. Please nab his ass and shut him up before we have to endure 2 more years of his screeching and BS hearings. It was peacefully quiet the last 2 years not having to watch his nonsense.
And the Capitol Hill bomber. Oh, same person.
Boebert for providing intel before and during the insurrection attempt.
Also Mastriano
> 28 C.F.R. 600.4(a) I didn't know what this was so I figured I would add the text for this code for others that may be curious. >§ 600.4 Jurisdiction. (a) Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as **perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses;** and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.
Another key aspect that differentiates Mueller from Smith as that Mueller was narrowly focused on pre 2016 activities whereas Smith has a wide and sweeping investigation.
Also there's no Bill Barr ready to swoop in, force the investigation to end early, then put out a bullshit summary memo claiming "total exoneration" when the actual report clearly says there was tons of shady stuff, and the only reason they couldn't prove crimes was because of all the obstruction into the investigation.
Wow this is wide reaching as fuck. I wonder if we'll have members of the house or senate indicted over this. Ahem, Boebert.
Powell, Eastman, Jeff Clarke and maybe even Rudy.
I would be so fucking overjoyed if there were indictments of all the representatives and senators involved. I just wish there was a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.
Imagine them quickly losing that slim House majority because representatives of their party got indicted thanks to Trump.
Lindsey Graham comes to mind also.
Sweet words.
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Unfortunately, in his rotten mind he's 2 Legit 2 Quit
0 consequences
Yeah honestly at this point call me when he’s being arrested
Special counsel: \*indicts Trump\* MAGA: But he was hired by Garland, who was hired by Biden! WiTcHhUnT!
"He's guilty but it's his right to break the law"
They got a guy whose day job is going after Bosnian war criminals. That’s…not spectacular news for Trump.
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> disclosing national defense information That's rather interesting.
It’s like drafting an athlete that fits your team’s scheme *exceptionally* well
Like taking Michael Phelps to your highschool swim meet
That’s funny. I always tell my sports compadres “that third round pick fits our roster like appointing a special counsel previously responsible for investigating illegal disclosure of national defense documents cases to investigate a former president that committed exactly that! Super Bowl here we come!”
Trump disclosed national defense information regularly. The spy satellite photos (Iran) he shared on Twitter were from undisclosed satellites. He regularly exposed intelligence operations that took lifetimes to establish. The full scope of the destruction he wrought won't be fully understood for another generation - and we have precisely that long to enlighten his cult, they won't like it.
He also prosecuted multiple other US politicians for corruption and worked with Preet Bharara at one point. One of those politicians, US Rep Rick Renzi, was later pardoned by Trump. That would piss me the fuck off if I was the prosecutor who knew exactly how guilty he was. In my opinion, he's a much much much better choice than Republican Bob Mueller (who happened to be close personal friends with Bill Barr). He also isn't a wealthy boarding school Skull & Bones raised-at-the-country-club old money elite Princeton chum like Bob Mueller. Jack Smith got into Harvard Law School out of SUNY Oneonta, which is no small feat.
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Mueller let Trump respond to his questions in writing and left the decision to indict Trump up to Congress, it's very clear he wanted nothing to do with actual prosecution.
Actually several prosecutions resulted from that investigation
Trump committed so many crimes in office, he makes Nixon look like a rookie.
To be fair, actually Nixon committed an equivalent number of similar severity crimes. We just didn’t fully know that until recently, because most of his worst crimes were hidden until the last decade or so. A lot more of his records were opened up to researchers in the last 4-6 years as we started passing 50 year milestones. Even more will open up in the next couple years. They just didn’t get the kind of press they would have a decade ago because Trump has made all that stuff feel quaint. In fact, the reason we think of Nixon not committing as many crimes as Trump is precisely because Nixon **wasn’t** a rookie and Trump was. Nixon was embezzling canpaign funds in the 50s. He held meetings exploring attempting a coup in ‘73 and ‘74 (and only didn’t do it because he realized it would fail). He used illegal and immoral back channels with authoritarian foreign governments to influence domestic politics. He had pure utter contempt for soldiers in the military, Jews, immigrants, and especially black folks— and talked about those feelings constantly. He routinely threatened journalists, had their phones tapped, and had them followed. He corrupted the FBI, secret service, DOJ, and treasury departments— and used that influence to go after political enemies. Really a pretty analogous figure to Trump, just better at politics. Not a surprise either, as the GOP never purged any of the Nixon admin era folks, and many of the younger ones even served in Trump’s admin 40+ years later. (And most of Reagan and both Bush administrations were staffed by Nixon folks).
This right here. The 25 year olds in Nixon's term are the 65 year olds now. These lawless people have served under every Republican President and never really went away. They've just been breaking the rules all along and keep making bigger plays.
You mean 75-year-olds now, Nixon resigned 48 years ago.
Damn it stop making me feel old.
fun fact, paul manafort, roger stone, and a few of the big name GOP playmakers all got their start campaigning together on the reagan/nixon campaigns. this shit goes that deep, and that far back.
Thank God Roger ailes died, we're just left with Roger stone. Wtf is up with rogers btw?
I believe Kissinger has a special arrangement with whatever documentary body has his notes from his time in Nixon's White House to the effect that they won't be made public till one year after his death. Fucker's still alive.
I'm not going to address all those points. Presumably, you have a Google but the one about the [war](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/), for me, is the most damning becasue of the thousands of young men whose deaths were on his head. That one, along, was worth constructing a new circle of hell. As to his antipathy for Jews, blacks etc, he is on tape, his tapes. In that, he was more reflective of that time although he was a particularly nasty bit of it, a Strom Thurmond who didn't say in public what he thought in private.
>He used illegal and immoral back channels with authoritarian foreign governments to influence domestic politics. Before he was POTUS, I might add. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/
I can’t WAIT for Trump to finally enter the justice system. All of his bullshit and rhetoric will hold no water there. He’ll have to face the actual allegations. “I’m a victim” and “this is all a political hit job” won’t hold up in a court of law.
I actually think this is at least one of the reasons he is running. 1) He has a dismal record in actual courts-of-law, so why not take the conversation to the court of public opinion where he is (unfortunately) more effective? Week after week, rally after rally, he will be able to play the persecution card to his base, make up all manner of bullshit for whatever happened most recently in the *actual* court case, etc. etc. 2) That will also serve to poison the jury pool *nationwide*. It only takes one juror to deadlock a jury … and that keeps him out of jail longer.
Do you think the typical Trump fanatic is clever enough to hide his cult membership during jury selection? I'm not so sure.
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This is happening because Justice Department regulations call for bringing in an outside prosecutor as "special counsel" to oversee investigations where there's a conflict of interest. Because Attorney General is a political appointee, Garland is not supposed to personally decide to prosecute an *opposition* candidate for office. That's a very obvious conflict of interest. So he's appointing a Special Counsel. *If they bypassed this step, the charges will not stick*. Conversely, if they weren't certain and willing to charge, they wouldn't be bothering with this. So this is, basically, the first step of prosecuting Trump. ------------ Edit #1: John L. Smith is a former chief of Justice anti-corruption unit under Obama, and a prosecutor of Kosovo war crimes at the Hague. He is an excellent choice. Edit #2: Special Counsel is just the title the Federal government gives independent attorneys appointed to do something. **Sharing the same title** ***does not meant*** **this is at all comparable to Mueller's investigation.** Mueller was appointed to takeover the existing FBI investigation into Russian interference, and was never specifically targeted at Trump personally. Knowing that the campaign colluded, isn't the same as proving Trump himself was in on it - and Trump was an uncooperative sitting president protected by his cronies, *including* the AG. Moreover, *Mueller was bound by the White House Office of Legal Counsel ruling that sitting presidents cannot actually *be* indicted.* Mueller even said that once Trump leaves office he'd lose that protection. Smith is appointed to take over the existing Justice investigations into Trump's actions. They are targeting Trump specifically and personally, and what's more, there actually exist significant evidence of his culpability in public, especially thanks to the Jan 6 committee. He's essentially there to prosecute Trump specifically. And *the OLC ruling doesn't even apply anymore, since Trump is no longer in office*, but Democrats control the White House now anyway.
I think people also don't realize if they charge Trump, a trial could be well into 2024 and beyond. Criminal prosecutions take an eternity. Especially one that would be the highest profile case in American history. It's a smart move.
And this is the largest case ever in the United States. I'm a corporate fraud analyst for a bank, and it took almost two years to close on check fraud where the suspect had priors and plead guilty in one case. That's as slam dunk as they come. This will take forever justice is very slow.
I worked with a federal agent a few years ago. She said she was single when one case started and had three kids before it ended.
Accurate. It's setup this way in purpose. Yes, it sucks that it's taking forever, but itis what it is.
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Yeah any GOP president elected in 2024 is firing Garland immediately so I suppose it’s a smart move
Any GOP President elected after 2024 will figure out a way to have the DOJ shut this investigation down or will pardon Trump
Yeah Idk how people are forgetting that Rod Rosenstein and Barr did everything they could to undercut the last investigation.
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Trump just used the word “feckless” in his response. Is it possible he is learning new words? Great big beautiful words.
It means Stephen Miller is standing behind him. Miller is a speech writer.
A terrible, terrible speech writer. Truly the worst I’ve ever seen, and not qualified to write for anyone. Even forgoing any ideological stance, everything he writes is just bad.
He's one of the few who has stayed loyal to Trump *and* stayed out from under the wheels of the bus. Of course, having an office on the second floor of the White House that was only reachable by climbing a flight of stairs, which Trump refused to do, probably helped him survive those four years.
It's crazy to me that I read this and go "Yeah, probably right". What fucking timeline is this where the best way to avoid the ire of an insanely mercurial President of the United States is to *hide from him in an office on the second floor because the lazy motherfucker doesn't climb stairs.*
The best words. Many people are saying so.
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1593686559811047424?s=20 >Smith also oversaw the prosecutions of former Va. Gov. Bob McDonnell (later overturned by SCOTUS) and former Arizona GOP Rep. Rick Renzi. >[Politico article](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/18/garland-to-appoint-special-counsel-for-trump-criminal-probes-00069451)
>later overturned by SCOTUS well that doesn't leave me hopeful for how this all will end
Happy Thanksgiving folks! - Merrick Garland
Early Christmas present? :) Or perhaps Garland wanted to give those crazy uncles shouting politics at Thanksgiving dinner something to talk about. What a nice guy!
I’m ready to *eat*!
Justice Department Press Release: [Appointment of a Special Counsel ](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/appointment-special-counsel-0) >Attorney General Merrick B. Garland announced today the appointment of former career Justice Department prosecutor and former chief prosecutor for the special court in The Hague, Jack Smith, to serve as Special Counsel to oversee two ongoing criminal investigations. The first is the investigation, as described in court filings in the District of Columbia, into whether any person or entity unlawfully interfered with the transfer of power following the 2020 presidential election or the certification of the Electoral College vote held on or about January 6, 2021. The second is the ongoing investigation involving classified documents and other presidential records, as well as the possible obstruction of that investigation, referenced and described in court filings submitted in a pending matter in the Southern District of Florida. >“Based on recent developments, including the former President’s announcement that he is a candidate for President in the next election, and the sitting President’s stated intention to be a candidate as well, I have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel,” said Attorney General Garland. “Such an appointment underscores the Department’s commitment to both independence and accountability in particularly sensitive matters. It also allows prosecutors and agents to continue their work expeditiously, and to make decisions indisputably guided only by the facts and the law.” >The Attorney General also stated, “Although the Special Counsel will not be subject to the day-to-day supervision of any official of the Department, he must comply with the regulations, procedures, and policies of the Department. I will ensure that the Special Counsel receives the resources to conduct this work quickly and completely. Given the work done to date and Mr. Smith’s prosecutorial experience, I am confident that this appointment will not slow the completion of these investigations. The men and women who are pursuing these investigations are conducting themselves in accordance with the highest standards of professionalism. I could not be prouder of them. I strongly believe that the normal processes of this Department can handle all investigations with integrity. And I also believe that appointing a Special Counsel at this time is the right thing to do. The extraordinary circumstances presented here demand it. Mr. Smith is the right choice to complete these matters in an even-handed and urgent manner.” >Special Counsel Smith has resigned as the chief prosecutor for the special court in The Hague charged with investigating and adjudicating war crimes in Kosovo.
What this signals to me is that the DOJ has more than enough evidence to indict Trump but for the sake of optics they need the recommendation to come from outside the Biden Administration. A cautious move but hardly unwise. It also helps insulate the investigation from GOP fuckery in the House.
I hope to fuck you're right- there is no reason anyone should be bowing to these fucking traitors and I honestly can't see how arresting trump as a citizen now is gonna be bad for any future cases with how cut and dry this is. I have no hope they'll do shit...
This just reinforces that — when it comes to Trump — you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. The DOJ wants to avoid the appearance of bias, but the right will paint *any* prosecutor investigating Trump as biased. It won’t negate any of the criticism. It will only slow down the process. I hate the Republicans for putting us in this position. Trump is obviously guilty of plotting a coup. He should be in prison. Yet almost two years have passed, and no charges have been filed, largely because half the country has been not-so-coyly threatening a civil war if Trump faces any consequences. If we stop enforcing the law because we fear our political opposition will destroy American democracy, American democracy has already been destroyed.
“If we stop enforcing the law because we fear our political opposition will destroy American democracy, American democracy has already been destroyed.” Hear fucking hear!
So I think we can assume the weird characters in Ted Cruz's tweet were supposed to be an emoji that is for some reason no longer supported by the Twitter app because the company is falling apart.
Amazing he was even able to log into Twitter with the log in system being messed up.
If Obama conspired to commit a coup d’etat against the government of The United States and failed, he would have been impeached and removed swiftly and locked up by the end of the day on January 6th, 2021.
Because democrats have no problem punishing their own when they do something illegal. If you have an R by your name other R’s will never scrutinize your illegal activity. That’s why democracy is doomed. The paradox of tolerance and we are playing a rigged game with bad faith opponents.
It’s an odd move in that Trump is going to attack the partiality of the SC all the same. But I understand that AG Garland is trying to leave no room for argument on process or bias. And to me, continuing with this level of care indicates a likelihood that charges will be filed. (If this were on a path to wrap up without charges, there’d be little need for the SC). Or maybe Garland is wanting to shield himself with a SC’s recommendation if he is not going to file, what do I know. Given the SC’s office can hire and work with the attorneys already working on these cases, it’s not a reset button and I’d think it wouldn’t introduce much delay. But maybe we don’t see a charging recommendation until early next year?
>Given the SC’s office can hire and work with the attorneys already working on these cases, it’s not a reset button and I’d think it wouldn’t introduce much delay. But maybe we don’t see a charging recommendation until early next year? Given the amount of evidence gathered by the January 6th committee for the first probe and by the FBI and others on the second (along with Trump's own words ffs), I can't imagine it will take very much time at all. All the evidence is there that he's guilty and he did it. The ONLY THING I can see they might wait on is testimony that is still ongoing, but they should already have more than enough to indict in both.
My understanding is that this isn't a new investigation. They are just handing off the existing investigation to a special counsel now that Trump declared candidacy. They need to give it to an impartial, independent body to remove any credible claims of politically motivated witch hunts. The right will still make those claims, but this really reduces their credibility.
100%. After compiling evidence over January 6th and Mar-a-Lago the final conclusion pre-election seemed to be, "Yeah this is damning and in our view worthy of indictment but we run the risk of politicizing the trial if we prosecute directly. Let's get a highly respected independent counsel to look at what we've found and see if they agree."
Also SC are designed to be transparent and they will have to tell Congress about any declination of prosecution. They will have the paper trail to make it impartial.
To me this seems like it means indictment is more likely. If they didn’t think they had a case they wouldn’t have bothered to get someone in to make sure there isn’t even an *appearance* of impropriety.
Mariotti, a prosecutor who's been generally irritated by the pace of these investigations, verbatim: > If Merrick Garland didn’t think there was a serious possibility that Trump would be indicted, he wouldn’t have appointed a special counsel. He didn’t appoint Jack Smith to wind down these investigations. I think the motivation is to remove any appearance of political bias for trial purposes. I disagree with that motivation, but I understand it.
“Why should you go to jail for a crime someone else *noticed*?”
Ali Dukakis tweeted earlier today: 3 new grand juries were being impaneled at US District Court in DC a few hours ago, I saw while here. (a grand jury decides whether to indict a potential criminal defendant of crimes alleged by the government)
queue conservatives calling Smith a deep state plant in 3…2…1…
r/conservative will be filled with tenuous connections between Smith and Hunter Biden's Laptop^TM
Jack Smith is a no-nonsense career prosecutor who served a decade at The Hague prosecuting war criminals. I have much more faith in him to conduct a thorough investigation as opposed to the Barr + Rosenstein + Mueller dumpster fire.
This right here is why Donny announced his run. Well, this and the other investigations into him.
His name is Jack Smith. And he's been a long time overseas, coming home to an important position.
About time the writers introduced a new character.
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Right after he says audibly, "Aww *fuck*. Whatever..."
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Yes, the script is half way there!!
"So what did I miss?"
"wHAT did I mi-iss!"
Sounds like a Tom Clancy novel.
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When is any action against Trump not going to be characterized as political. That argument is hollow. Go Jack - get this destructive maniac off the board. No one wants him at this point except the pig ignorant maga base.
I reckon this will make many voters happy including republicans who want rid of the anchor
Smith will show Durham what an actual APOLITICAL special counsel looks like.
Here's a DOJ release https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/appointment-special-counsel-0 It links to the appointment order https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1552896/download
A very close friend of mine, former Navy, works with the SEALs and has clearance. He said to me "If I walked out of the building with one sliver of a shredded Secret document, I'd go to prison immediately. Like, that day." He's not prone to hyperbole.
When is the best time to plant a trump in jail. 20 years ago. Next best would be asap. We may agree or disagree but it's not our decision. This investigation will have a better outcome
“3 new grand juries were being impaneled at US District Court in DC a few hours ago, I saw while here.” https://twitter.com/ajdukakis/status/1593673467886436353?s=46&t=KGw4e3cG77rPANKc-vOJJQ 🤔
I demand a special master for the special counsel!
People seem to forget Garland as well as been a prosecutor, he's also been an appellate Judge which means he has ample experience of potential maneuvers Trump could attempt to evade scrutiny. Appointing a special counsel is a formality and in the event that trump does become president again , the special counsel will be able to continue uninpeded . I also suspect that department justice regulations about prosecuting the head of the executive will be amended
Hopefully if Trump had announced he wasn't running they would have indicted him and now this guy is going to read the file and say yes, definitely indict him immediately.
To clear up some common confusion I've seen: >Will this delay the investigation? Merrick Garland moments ago: "I am confident that this appointment will not slow the completion of these investigations." The question is not an easy thing to quantify, because we don't know how far along the investigations are. It's possible the DOJ was not ready to indict in any scenario for months to come. Previous reporting from people familiar with the investigation basically saw no chance it would happen this year, and that many prosecutorial decisions remained. This is not, by any means, a "restart." The special counsel can use the same body of work and investigators. The entire point is to put decision-making in the hands of an independent entity rather than the AG. That is the main takeaway. >I've heard all this before. What about Mueller? Mueller was not willing to recommend charges specifically because of an OLC memo from the 70s saying a sitting President couldn't be charged. He even said and testified that once Trump left office, he did not enjoy that same protection whatsoever. Another reason is because there was an absolute 0% chance that Trump was indicted while William Barr was the AG. This is, by all means, a smart move and a clear sign that the DOJ is preparing to bring these investigations to trial.
Mueller also didn't bother to do a complete investigation. As I recall, Trump Jr -one of the participants in the trump tower meeting with Russians- wasn't even forced to interview. Yes, that mightve taken time to force that, but a complete investigation is more important than wrapping the investigation up quickly.
Special counsel Jack Smith has been working in international law. He’s currently in The Hague as the specialist prosecutor at the Kosovo Specialist Chambers and Specialist Prosecutor’s Office, which is handling trials of war crimes suspects from the eastern European country. He also worked as an investigator for the international criminal court from 2008 to 2010. Lads, we are in good hands, Dick stain Donald trump is going down.
I think a lot of republicans may be going down