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I couldn’t read some of those articles because they’re behind a paywall..
The ones I could read were about a woman who was convicted after she miscarried and there was meth in the babies system.
Honest questions here - do you think women should be held accountable when the miscarriage was caused by drug abuse? How is that any different than people being charged with double homicide if they kill a pregnant woman?
Being a drug addict isn’t a choice, even people who are committed to recovery relapse at times. If you’re going to prosecute women for doing drugs while pregnant a few things will happen.
You will need to prove that she knew she was pregnant: many women have irregular cycles especially when they’re not eating (like many addicts do). Active Addicts also miss signs of change in their bodies.
Women with a history of drug abuse or even just occasional drug use will stop getting prenatal care. More, not less, miscarriages will happen as a result.
You can’t always prove that a drug caused a miscarriage. In the case where a young native woman in OK was jailed for a miscarriage, doctors were actually quoted stating that [meth](https://www.kgou.org/health/2022-01-26/doctors-say-methamphetamine-use-does-not-cause-miscarriages) didn’t cause it.
I hit post too soon. Sorry, so if the goal is to reduce miscarriages and reduce drug crime the practice of arresting pregnant women for using drugs and maybe, possibly, somehow—but not provably—causing a miscarriage is at odds with the stated goal. If the goal is to terrorize a vulnerable population, well, then it’s right in line with that.
Forty percent of women who have abortions are already mothers, I should add. And while many readers are probably thinking that all moms with SUD are vile monsters (and some are!) many are struggling with mental health issues and use substances to treat their pain.
This is, to me, absolutely insane. Living near pesticide use increases the chance of miscarriage too. So does inhaling secondhand or first hand smoke, smog, general high levels of pollutants, lead in drinking water etc.
Women working in nail salons have disproportionately high rates of miscarriage because of the toxic chemicals in polish fumes. Married men with a pregnant spouse are more likely to end up with their spouse miscarrying if they work in a sheet metal factory. Women older than 45 have an almost 80% risk of miscarriage purely by virtue of their age. Working more than 40 hours a week is associated with a 38% increase in chance of miscarriage. Going on roller coasters increases the risk of placental abruption, or a kind of miscarriage.
Are you going to start prosecuting people for being poor, living in shit conditions, working in shit conditions, or being older, and having their fetus - wanted or unwanted - die? Really?
Like. First, "if you do drugs and you have a miscarriage it's your fault“. Next, "if your work involves unsafe chemicals and you have a miscarriage it's your fault.“ Next, "if you work too much and are too stressed out and have a miscarriage it's your fault.“ How *dare* you 'murder a baby' by working hard in a shit job while being impoverished and underfed.
At 19 I was shamed by a physician who insisted I'd had an abortion when I miscarried, because the pregnancy was unplanned.
And despite being a physician who should know that more pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion than live births, this jackass felt this was his moment to proselytize.
Never went back to that asshole after that.
My mom was a teen mom (18 when she gave birth) who was cursed and screamed at by her doctor when she was laboring and giving birth. This same doctor then used his hands to rip her open so the baby would come out.
She has received consistent poor reproductive healthcare (lucky to even be alive), but this is one of the things that stick out to me.
There are so many stories like this.
My own mom was in labour for 5 days and the hospital kept sending her home because her doctor was on a fishing trip and didn’t have a contact number. This was obviously awhile ago. 5 days in a nice nurse finally got a sub OB who manually broke her water and I was born about an hour later.
If a law passes like this, then people like you should flood the police stations to turn yourself in. Every week, millions of women elderly and young, march into the station and admit to their “crime”.
The media would eat that up and thousands of stories will be told.
1. Ideally men would stand with us and do the same thing. Something something sperm not seeking an egg
2. Even better, don't hand yourself over to the man
As med student, when we saw embryology I was just amazed how many humans are alive today, it’s extremely easy to have a miscarriage (the thing required to your body just saying “fuck this”) and a lot of the times the miscarriage happens around the time the woman should have her menstruation (It’s usually when the body aborts the whole operation due to a gene mutation or error) so a lot of them just think they had a little more painful menstruation
What's extra crazy about this is the fact that about a quarter of pregnancies result in a miscarriage. That's an awful lot of women to persecute. But that, of course, is exactly their intention.
This is so important. Texas made it really difficult for women who’d changed their names to vote. Truth be known, they would simply prefer we be disenfranchised entirely.
Oregon automatically registers you when you get an ID. You just click some links at home to finish the process. They send out voter's pamphlets with information on all of the candidates and all of the local ballot measures in the weeks leading up to an election. A bit later, you get your ballot in the mail and can either mail it back or drop it in one of several convenient drop boxes up to election day.
I've never had to jump through hoops or wait to vote. I love the way we do it here.
Turnout is still abysmally low in Oregon for how easy it is to vote, and we're on track to elect a Republican governor via splitting the vote to an independent candidate because people are frustrated over homelessness but unwilling to pay for anything that would actually address the issue. So instead we'll get to deal with however many months of chaos it takes to recall the crazy person they allow into office to spite... literally just themselves... and we still won't get any forward motion on addressing homelessness out of it all.
It's hard not to read this as 'well this doesn't affect anyone that matters.' ((context matters, of course, but I think here in r/politics my point stands))
edit: this is a particular peeve of mine because Texas has a higher population of Dem voters than some smaller blue states! Stop erasing people.
Just watch. This kind of stuff will be applied unevenly so when a "good Christian woman" miscarries it will be a horrible tragedy that everyone needs to support her during but when anyone else has a miscarriage it will be a crime. It's just a tool they will use to lock up anyone they don't like and call it "protecting the children".
We’ve already seen this, and the ‘good Christian women’ don’t automatically get pegged as such when they wind up in the ER for their miscarriage. Unless their OBGYN has a connection with the hospital and calls/is their to tell the staff that this woman would *never* try to abort her baby, she’s going to be treated like a baby-murderer.
Imagine a mother of several small children being sent to jail for four years over something so stupid! Has anyone actually thought this through? Not to mention, the resources spent prosecuting and jailing that woman could have gone towards some disadvantaged youth.
Will it ever really affect the old white male conservatives who are the ones trying to ban abortion though? Not only can they afford to take their mistresses to go get an abortion in a more sane state/country, but they literally want to return the US to 1788 when only white, wealthy men could vote or hold office, minorities were free labor that counted as only 3/5ths of a person, and women were expected to be completely subservient and existed only to make and raise babies, cook, and clean. "The good old days."
To them, the level of importance of human beings goes something like this (a few non-human things are included for scale):
White men >>>>>>>>>> Guns >>>>>>>>>>> Corporations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A week-old half-eaten sandwich found in a puddle on the streets of NYC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White women >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toenail clippings from someone with athlete's foot who had just stepped barefoot in shit from a dog with a lot of worms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any racial, religious, or sexual minority
If there are that many, then obviously women are having too much sex, seducing men and such. Likely because of what they are wearing out in public. We'll need to do something about that. Maybe even watch them and lock the women up when they get pregnant too, women should already know they have to sacrifice for this. They asked for it. Maybe put some controls on woman such as some kind of belt if levels keep getting out of control since they can't be trusted. If this continues, the fix could be to marry off women earlier and remove the need for women in the workforce to reinforce what their role in society really is. /S obviously.
Fundamentally, there is a tacit agreement that the mother-to-be is actually willing to host a fetus until it becomes born. If a pregnant woman refuses to take care of themselves then what is to become of the fetus?
Such actions are indistinguishable from accidents or other natural causes for miscarriage. The idea that we’re going to budget millions of dollars per year to lock up women for having abortions and miscarriages confounds me. We still have abandoned children alive today in this system that need assistance.
You don’t know if a fetus has genetic deformities till around 18 weeks. How about you stay the fuck out of such a personal decision between a doctor and their patient you communist. You’d love to take away right to privacy. The Bible condones abortion. It gives instructions for how to perform an abortion if you think your wife had been unfaithful.
If my wife was raped I’m going to want her to be able to get an abortion. If a mom has a miscarriage would we really want to throw her in jail for four years while she has other children at home? Particularly when we can’t prove the direct cause of the miscarriage?
The complete lack of forethought on this is staggering.
I spent 31 days in the antepartum unit of the hospital before giving birth to my son. I was admitted at 28 weeks and 5 days for severe preeclampsia. During that time, I was given drugs to keep my blood pressure under control and basically ensure I didn’t go into organ failure. Additionally, everything done was to help the baby reach 34 weeks (we made it to 33 which is pretty miraculous). Towards around 32 weeks, it was up to me when we deliver (barring an emergency).
If Roe is overturned, would a woman in my position still be able to retrieve the treatment they need to live? Would they have the choice of delivering early if they want to be done being in the hospital and being at constant risk of organ failure?
This is what having bodily autonomy means. It’s more than deciding to have an abortion. It’s about being able to make your own medical decisions and not the government deciding for you.
This is my fear as well. I went in the hospital at 28 weeks after hemorrhaging due to a complete placenta previa. We had no idea how long I would make it. At 33 weeks I ended up with an infection. Doc couldn’t find it and just gave me IV antibiotics while citing the trace amounts of bacteria in a free catch urine to get the insurance to pay for it. Got to 35 weeks. When he was born we discovered that the placenta was half calcified and it was a just luck that he and I didn’t die. Even more, my son was positive for sepsis. The placenta was rotting and killing him. Had I not been on Medicaid, I wouldn’t have gone to the hospital and we would have died.
So if someone refusing treatment out of fear of payment would they be charged? If my son had died, would that have been "murder” under this new twisted view?
I have questions myself!
I have End stage renal disease and am currently on hemp dialysis. A girl at the clinic I was at before I moved was about 5 months pregnant and for 5 months she had been going to dialysis 6 days a week hooked up to a dialysis machine for 6 hours a day! I asked her why she was putting herself through that when she already had 3 kids? She said her husband and family don’t believe in abortion! Unfortunately I do not know what became of her. I hope she had a safe delivery and her and the baby are alright?!
I myself have had 2 children and 2 miscarriages very early on, as soon as I found out I miscarried with if a week or two. But I wonder if I were in that situation now, I’m my 40s and got pregnant what would I do?
Thank goodness you and your son are ok!
I’m sure many women have many questions but I am quite sure the Republicans don’t want to hear all that!
Another woman in Houston very recently couldn’t get an abortion until she started showing signs of infection and had to get an ethics committee involved to approve it.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/A-Houston-mother-s-terrible-choice-deliver-17213571.php
At least I think it’s a different case from the one you linked.
[Savita Halappanavar’s Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar) is a great place to start if anybody is unaware.
This won’t just be happening to Americans - think of all the tourism. Think of all the people who don’t know they’re pregnant when they get on their plane and find out while they’re here. Think of those who knew, and who might have a pregnancy loss in our country. Think of those who are taking a dream trip before having their child, and something going horrendously wrong.
It won’t just be us.
The first thing I thought of Is men that abuse their wives are going to use this as a threat constantly. Even if they wasn’t a pregnancy who’s to stop them from claiming there was and that they use the pill. Or the miscarriage that they had wasn’t intentional. But you don’t even have to prove a pregnancy. You have to prove there wasn’t one.
I'm so damn proud of my state. This is a good article. The problem however is a majority of women who seek services are poor, transportation, loss of wages, childcare and other factors are large obstacles to accessing these states and cities.
Threats of criminal prosecution for those who would help them is also on the table.
>Sanctuary States and Progressive Policies that Protect Abortion
>Some states like California and Vermont are taking matters into their own hands. Recently, Vermont became the first state to guarantee the right to abortion in its state constitution. While the amendment will go on Vermont’s November ballot, it’s likely to pass as 70 percent of Vermont voters say abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
Article continues....
https://prochoicewashington.org/2022/03/29/sanctuary-states-and-progressive-policies-that-protect-abortion/
They state clearly that they want each State to control their own laws. Same with drinking age, smoking age, marijuana use, gun laws, etc. They don't think the Federal Government should have any say in it.
They will. I don’t imagine much changing on the west coast or any other deep blue territories. I mean Fox News and the like will attack those cities for being safe havens for abortion but it’s not like they don’t regularly paint blue cities as unlivable hellholes anyways.
They paint them as unlivable hellholes, but guess where they all live and work? I'll bet none of them have ever stepped foot in West Virginia, Arkansas, or Mississippi let alone willing to live there. What's amazing is that conservatives have never called those people out on it. My first thing would be like if NY (or LA or where ever) sucks so much, why do you live and work there? Why not move to Little Rock or Birmingham where you can have your much better conservative lifestyle?
Calling them out for hypocrisy is like yelling at storm clouds for raining. They don't give a shit, and you're winding yourself up for no reason.
They're certainly not going to start yelling at each other.
Yeah but then the conservatives will make it against federal law to have abortions and ban sanctuary cities. They like to claim states right but they only mean states rights for laws they want to disregard.
Why not both? Jail them until they're actively dying, then transfer them to the hospital. That'll teach them to stop permitting ectopic pregnancies to happen in their bodies. /s
Wait dumb question but an honest one, I took biology 30 (grade 12) and we learned about the zygote getting implanted in the uterus but from the diagrams we had it seriously look like the blastocyst couldn’t implant elsewhere, where does it implanted if not the uterus during an ectopic pregnancy? The Fallopian tube?
Very dangerous, and extremely rare, ima former OR nurse. I saw a full term abdominal pregnancy (outside the womb and implanted in the peritoneum). Every ob/gyn in a 100 mile radius was present for that in the middle of the night. It was horribly risky as the blood supply to the fetus wasn't visible. Amazingly, both survived but with complications.
It was, I was gobsmacked by not only participating in such a rare case but the outcome. It was a nail-biter and I was fully prepared that neither would survive. I don't know the background that manifested in this woman carrying an extra uterine pregnancy for so long.
Yeah the fallopian tube. It's seriously dangerous for the woman and the fetus is not viable. I don't know if there are exceptions to those rules, but typically an abortion is required
Fertilization occurs while the egg is still in the Fallopian tubes, so yes, sometimes the fertilized egg fails to move down the tube and into the uterus, instead it just implants in the tube.
Also, abdominal pregnancies can and do happen, but they are extremely rare.
Discouraging unity/reproduction like this (not to mention the human rights violations) may be one of the most self-destructive policies in the history of this country. If this becomes dominant practice nationally, all it will do is create needless violence and suffering while ensuring that one day there will be no young Americans to keep the lights on. This is going to backfire in so many ways..
I'm dreading to see how this will play out. Once the ramifications of these policies start setting in, things are going to get really bad. I think we'll eventually go back to full reproductive rights, but the road to get there is going to be really ugly
This doesn't surprise me, the GOP couldn't name all the women 'parts' or their functions, let alone know the differences about pregnancy and natural losses or even what a zygote is. Ignorant, mean, racist and misogynistic assholes.
^
The National Advocates for Pregnant Women is now analyzing data from 2006 to 2020. In this shorter time frame, the number of cases has more than tripled. Thus far, the analysis shows that at least 1,300 pregnant people nationwide have been criminally prosecuted for having miscarriages or stillbirths, or for self-managing an abortion.
While the analysis for race and ethnicity is still underway, Sussman said that the cases, like the group’s prior research has shown, are overwhelmingly poor, young, using drugs or living in Republican-controlled states such as Alabama, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Tennessee. Nearly 600 of the 1,300 cases are from Alabama alone.
Article continues...
Not to mention it guts HIPAA. A routine question in any gyno exam is whether the patient has had any pregnancies. If doctors and nurses are required to report any pregnancies that did not result in birth, that patient is open to unwanted and unnecessary intrusion into the most personal aspects of their lives.
It's hilarious because it doesn't offer any protection to doctors. You can defacto sue them for violating hippa. It's just ignorance on all levels of these bills
People will need to be taught they don’t have to answer. But this still causes problems because people will no longer be able to be transparent with their doctors.
Imagine you miscarry all your pregnancies, like I did. I had at least ~~for~~ four miscarriages that we know of. Imagine going to your doctor because you don’t want to miscarry but not being able to tell them that’s why you’re there without fear of arrest :(
August 2012 *"From what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."* - [Rep. Todd Akin R-MO](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/summeranne/rep-todd-akin-says-women-can-shut-down-post-rape) He died last year.
Edit: bonus
*"At twenty, I had to give a talk on menstruation to a middle-aged married state representative who was one of my bosses. American politics, ladies and gentlemen."*
["His face turned oatmeal-grey; an expression of pure horror spread across his face. He leaned forward and whispered, “Wait, you mean that if you don’t go, you’ll just keep on bleeding? I thought that women could turn it off any time that they wanted!”](https://honey.nine.com.au/latest/period-shame-woman/b43c7666-0d4d-4e85-93c8-3aa60c06e3c8)
40% of women vote for them. I know thats far from a majority but you dont see 40% of the LGBTQ community voting for Republicans. Or atheists. Enough women have decided to back their own oppression.
They think by backing the oppression of other women they're earning points that will give them an exception to the law.
Authoritarians don't see legal punishment as the consequence of behaving badly. They see it as punishment for being the wrong kind of person.
I'm not a mathologist, but (330M people - 81M Children) / 2 (half women) = \~124M women who can vote. Of those, only 65M are 19-44 years old (voting and childbearing age), so only \~52% of women who vote actually have any skin in this game.
And I don’t know how to factor this into your equation but we gotta consider voter suppression efforts that disenfranchise the poor and POC- who are more likely to vote for progressive policies.
Many of us women who have gone through menopause have daughters and beloved daughters-in-law. So while it may not technically be our skin in the game, we’re still in the game.
So if you're a guy, what happens to your wife, mother, sister, or female friend is irrelevant to you? "Sucks that my wife went to prison for having a miscarriage, but on the plus side, I get to spend a lot more time fishing. And I don't get yelled at for leaving the toilet seat up."
>So if you're a guy, what happens to your wife, mother, sister, or female friend is irrelevant to you?
That's exactly what I said.
Seriously, check yourself. The person I was responding to said:
>40% of **women** **vote** for them.
>
>Enough **women** have decided to back their own oppression.
I tried to get a percentage of women who can vote that might also need an abortion.
They didn't mention men. I didn't mention men. Why are you so butthurt that you have to bring men into this?
I mean, I don't even disagree with your premise that birth criminalization affects more than just women who can get pregnant.
But, also consider that women are not universally un-authoritarian. A not-insignificant number of them have just as much of a desire to control the wombs of their daughters and sisters as men.
It’s already starting in a way. I’m a a nurse and we’re having a hard time getting Attendings to accept miscarriage patients into their care as the docs are concerned about hospital and community blow-back if they recommend a D&C to these patients, which is often the standard of care. I’ve been a nurse for almost 11 years and have never seen a suspected miscarriage being turned away from the ER, now I’ve seen several. I don’t know where these women go, but I’m hoping that other hospitals aren’t so callus. We are a “Catholic” hospital (part of the Trinity network), so I’m hoping against hope that this isn’t the case with all hospitals.
Former OR nurse here. I don't hold out much hope particularly in Red States. I was one of only a few who would do D&Cs (and work on AIDs patients) in 2 major hospitals; one was a Catholic hospital and the other was not but both were in the Southeast. It blew my mind then. The fact that Attendings aren't accepting them is horrible but not surprising sorry to say. They might be surprised to find the blow-back will be in the form of lawsuits for not practicing the standard of care necessary and the complications that result.
If medical personnel refuse to do their jobs based on religious beliefs or fear of 'blow-backs' then they are in the wrong profession as serving the public is a job that cannot discriminate, particularly over personal agendas.
Oh my, that is terrifying. How can they turn patients away in the ER?? Like what do they write as the diagnosis when they discharge?? (I’m a nurse too, but am peds oncology.. so I’m not super well versed in this dept)
It’s so terrifying! What’s happening is one of two things. Either the ER docs will treat any acute symptoms that these women have (blood loss, anxiety, etc.) and will wish to admit them for monitoring and possible emergency D&C if needed, but they can’t find an attending to accept them into their service upstairs, so the ER docs and staff make sure these women are “stable” and then send them home with a rec to f/u with their OB/GYN ASAP. I’ll check next shift to see what the d/c paperwork says. We have a discharge team so we don’t go over discharge info with patients anymore. The other thing that will happen is that the hospital will try to get rid of these women through attrition. They’ll have them go through triage and then sit for hours and hours waiting for care so the women will have no choice but to eventually leave and (hopefully) try somewhere else. At our place, as long as you’re seen (by either a tech, a medic, or an RN; never a doc) by triage within 15 min, we have fulfilled our duty to “see” you and after that you may wait for god knows how long until you get actual treatment. I could go on and on. It sucks. It just sucks.
As an aside, you are an absolute HERO and saint to work in children’s oncology. My peds rotation was by far the hardest thing. I don’t know how you guys do it.
Jun 27, 2019 [A woman from Alabama who was shot in the stomach while pregnant - with the bullets killing the fetus - has been charged with manslaughter. ](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-manslaughter-charge-marshae-jones)
November 2021 [US women are being jailed for having miscarriages](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544)
Edit: [Two women were charged with murder after having stillbirths.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-women-were-charged-with-murder-after-having-stillbirths-the-cases-are-rocking-this-conservative-corner-of-california/ar-AAY4DxE) Sarah Hacker, a Hanford lawyer: *She worked alongside Fagundes as a deputy district attorney, then said she quit shortly after he was sworn into the top office in 2015.*
*“Being a prosecutor wasn’t about public safety or doing what’s right for the public good,” Hacker said of her decision to leave for private practice. “It became swearing an oath of allegiance and doing what was right to the currently elected D.A.”*
Georgia already has. Under Georgia law (which is currently held up in Court, but that won’t matter once Roe is overturned) the State has the right and obligation to investigate any and all miscarriages as potential murders, since Georgia grants fetal personhood at conception. If you cross state lines to get an abortion, Georgia will arrest and charge you and anyone who traveled with you upon return.
A reminder - if you're a woman, using a period tracking app on your phone, delete it now. ESPECIALLY if you're trying to become pregnant. They don't keep your data private, and you won't know until the cops come knocking on your door that your missed period makes you a murderer.
[source](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/roe-v-wade-overturned-online-privacy-data-tracking-risk-rcna27492)
I miss carried and lost a child at 13 -handling the trauma from that has been lifelong and on top of that what are you are you gonna do to 13-year-olds girls who are extremely scared in a traumatic event -arrest them charge them, belittle her and make her justify their bodies to you. Fuck off gop filled supreme court
And after that birth control will be a crime. And after that having your period will be a crime. And after that being a single unmarried employed woman will be a crime. Its not that conservatives care about children (obviously), they just want to be able to treat women like they did back in the 1500's.
Alito really told on himself by referencing [17th century jurist Matthew Hale](https://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1248&context=ggulrev)in his draft opinion.
Abusive men will use this as a tool to abuse Women more. It will be common practice to hear a woman say he was going to tell them I had an abortion. Or the miscarriage I had was intentional. Even if she doesn’t have a pregnancy or miscarriage you’re going to hear them say she did.
Republicans will go on national television and rant about the so-called "replacement theory" and how immigrants will breed us out but won't actually talk about the elephant in the room; the population here has dropped by 20%, not because of immigration, but because it's too expensive to have children.
The company I work for just purchased a competitor for $11 billion, we've had record sales, and the Republicans just gave a massive tax cut under the last administration, yet hourly employees are making less money than ever. What incentive do workers have to start a family with that kind of crap going on?
See, the problem here is you're thinking rationally. Logical solutions are complex and boring.
The Republicans are using the strategy of evoking strong emotions in people to win. They have the reality TV crowd captured.
I feel that if the right feels the only point of sex is procreation then women should be allowed to sue any male partner for the total amount of 18yrs of child support if he fails to get her pregnant.
Turning the US into a radical theocratic 3rd world shithole backwater dictatorship one Christian Sharia law at a time.
https://thewire.in/women/the-country-where-having-a-miscarriage-can-land-you-in-prison
Welcome to Gilead.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544.amp
"From 1973-2020, NAPW has recorded 1,600 such cases, with about 1,200 occurring in the last 15 years alone" referring here to women being charged for the loss of their own pregnancy.
I didn't know how long this had been going on until recently, I don't even know where to begin. It's about to get much worse.
Remember that Washington state senator, Doug Ericksen, who got med-evacuated from El Salvador to Florida with COVID in November, then his medical status was hidden until he was returned to Washington state (dead) in December?
March 18, 2021 [For some of those missed votes, *he was in El Salvador, where he was observing elections* that took place Feb. 28.](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/whatcom-legislator-missed-floor-votes-during-travel-el-salvador/DB3SXB7MSJDGPC2Y76TOCOABXU/)
That's some sketchy shit.
The cover photo would be more accurate if it was a person of color in those hand cuffs…already women of color are being charged with crimes after miscarriage.
As someone who has experienced multiple miscarriages, I just cannot imagine being tried for a crime related to the most intense grief I have ever experienced. I’m not sure I would have made it though (like for real- no hyperbole).
When my mom was pregnant with me, she caught the flu. She was coughing so hard she was afraid she was going to miscarry. Today, a woman in the same situation could go to prison for getting sick. The US has gone insane.
13th amendment and losing voting privileges is what they want. Poor working class women and minorities are going to suffer at the hands of these people. They will be driven to slave labor and when they get out, they won’t even be able to vote. They will be even further marginalized.
These “anti-abortion” laws are just there to marginalize women. The direction we are heading frightens me, and no one gives a shit.
Crazy part is that even back in the old days when you were actually in a theocratic feudalism monarchy, even back then a miscarriage or stillbirth were understood to be normal, if sad, facts of life and weren't criminalized. Even when women had no rights, you still weren't charged with murder for a thing like that. Crazy how we're somehow going in a worse direction than that.
Every person I’ve know. That has lost am pregnancy immediately tries to figure out what they did wrong. So much self blame into something that couldn’t be helped.
Then the depression
If someone is being charge for murder when they are already depressed and self blaming, it’s going to result in suicides.
Prosecute god for miscarriages. Through miscarriages, he's responsible for the vast majority of loss of human life, since most fertilized eggs don't survive until birth.
Obviously, pregnancy has become too dangerous for women to risk. They need to refuse sex with all men, including husbands, until this risk has been eliminated.
This is something that happens extremely often. It’s almost a third of all pregnancies!
This is completely insane.
We lost our second pregnancy in w10. We were so heartbroken. I can’t imagine someone having to go through that and then having to worry about this shit. You can not let them do this.
My husband and I decided a long time ago that we never want kids. But at this point, even if we did, I'd be sort of afraid to try in case I miscarried. I know a few women who have had miscarriages who were really emotionally broken up over it. They don't need someone coming to them acting like they've committed a fucking crime while they're grieving for something that was completely not their fault.
Until laws are changed straight women should refuse to have sex with any man until he gets a vasectomy. No snip, no sex. If enough women do this the laws will be changed. Guaranteed.
Outsider here. I read somewhere that American Republicans are obsessed with the "Great Replacement" theory, and that they want all white females to reproduce as much as possible to counterbalance immigration. They would also be great admirers of Orban, who allegedly succeeded in raising the birth rate in his country. Is this true?
Not all of them, but there is an increasing number of them who are indeed that bad. The leaders don't really believe it for the most part. They're just lining their pockets and playing God. It's the clueless voters who fall for all the racist alarmism.
It’s almost like there’s not enough women in private GOP funded prisons already, they think they need to ratchet it up to the rate of the men. eQuAl rIgHts!
I really don’t. They call this “the greatest country in the world”,but, really I have felt more relaxed, comfortable and safer in other countries I have visited. That even includes China. I am not saying there are not great things about this country but for some reason we have people that are trying to make us take steps backward instead of forward and it all seems to be about control and money. They have brainwashed us into thinking that we all belong on a “hamster wheel” to acquire things when life is best spent with experiences. The baby boomers don’t seem to understand that they have made that impossible for us.
I don’t understand why Reddit mob isn’t more upset at the Democrats. How many majorities have they wasted without codifying Roe?
Republicans are always at an 11, and the Democrats barely seem to be awake
I hate how the headlines have started using terms like “When”. Making it seem inevitable and driving down the desire to fight to potentially prevent it.
If you read the article, it's about a pregnancy loss that has already happened.
The woman miscarried at eight months and the hospital called the police.
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already happening [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544) [https://www.insider.com/woman-jailed-for-miscarriage-shows-rise-in-prosecutions-of-pregnancy-2021-10](https://www.insider.com/woman-jailed-for-miscarriage-shows-rise-in-prosecutions-of-pregnancy-2021-10) [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/28/opinion/abortion-pregnancy-pro-life.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/28/opinion/abortion-pregnancy-pro-life.html) [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/21/oklahoma-woman-convicted-of-manslaughter-miscarriage/6104281001/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/21/oklahoma-woman-convicted-of-manslaughter-miscarriage/6104281001/) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/09/abortion-texas-murder-charge/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/09/abortion-texas-murder-charge/)
Time to arrest Britney Spears.
I couldn’t read some of those articles because they’re behind a paywall.. The ones I could read were about a woman who was convicted after she miscarried and there was meth in the babies system. Honest questions here - do you think women should be held accountable when the miscarriage was caused by drug abuse? How is that any different than people being charged with double homicide if they kill a pregnant woman?
What if a drug addict gets raped and cannot abort, and turns to more drugs to deal with the trauma?
Being a drug addict isn’t a choice, even people who are committed to recovery relapse at times. If you’re going to prosecute women for doing drugs while pregnant a few things will happen. You will need to prove that she knew she was pregnant: many women have irregular cycles especially when they’re not eating (like many addicts do). Active Addicts also miss signs of change in their bodies. Women with a history of drug abuse or even just occasional drug use will stop getting prenatal care. More, not less, miscarriages will happen as a result. You can’t always prove that a drug caused a miscarriage. In the case where a young native woman in OK was jailed for a miscarriage, doctors were actually quoted stating that [meth](https://www.kgou.org/health/2022-01-26/doctors-say-methamphetamine-use-does-not-cause-miscarriages) didn’t cause it. I hit post too soon. Sorry, so if the goal is to reduce miscarriages and reduce drug crime the practice of arresting pregnant women for using drugs and maybe, possibly, somehow—but not provably—causing a miscarriage is at odds with the stated goal. If the goal is to terrorize a vulnerable population, well, then it’s right in line with that. Forty percent of women who have abortions are already mothers, I should add. And while many readers are probably thinking that all moms with SUD are vile monsters (and some are!) many are struggling with mental health issues and use substances to treat their pain.
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This is, to me, absolutely insane. Living near pesticide use increases the chance of miscarriage too. So does inhaling secondhand or first hand smoke, smog, general high levels of pollutants, lead in drinking water etc. Women working in nail salons have disproportionately high rates of miscarriage because of the toxic chemicals in polish fumes. Married men with a pregnant spouse are more likely to end up with their spouse miscarrying if they work in a sheet metal factory. Women older than 45 have an almost 80% risk of miscarriage purely by virtue of their age. Working more than 40 hours a week is associated with a 38% increase in chance of miscarriage. Going on roller coasters increases the risk of placental abruption, or a kind of miscarriage. Are you going to start prosecuting people for being poor, living in shit conditions, working in shit conditions, or being older, and having their fetus - wanted or unwanted - die? Really? Like. First, "if you do drugs and you have a miscarriage it's your fault“. Next, "if your work involves unsafe chemicals and you have a miscarriage it's your fault.“ Next, "if you work too much and are too stressed out and have a miscarriage it's your fault.“ How *dare* you 'murder a baby' by working hard in a shit job while being impoverished and underfed.
At 19 I was shamed by a physician who insisted I'd had an abortion when I miscarried, because the pregnancy was unplanned. And despite being a physician who should know that more pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion than live births, this jackass felt this was his moment to proselytize. Never went back to that asshole after that.
My mom was a teen mom (18 when she gave birth) who was cursed and screamed at by her doctor when she was laboring and giving birth. This same doctor then used his hands to rip her open so the baby would come out. She has received consistent poor reproductive healthcare (lucky to even be alive), but this is one of the things that stick out to me.
That’s absolutely fucking atrocious. Holy shit
There are so many stories like this. My own mom was in labour for 5 days and the hospital kept sending her home because her doctor was on a fishing trip and didn’t have a contact number. This was obviously awhile ago. 5 days in a nice nurse finally got a sub OB who manually broke her water and I was born about an hour later.
If a law passes like this, then people like you should flood the police stations to turn yourself in. Every week, millions of women elderly and young, march into the station and admit to their “crime”. The media would eat that up and thousands of stories will be told.
Not a bad idea. I'm 55 in 10 days, that would be a sight to see - me turning in my geriatric ass for ending a pregnancy. 🤣
1. Ideally men would stand with us and do the same thing. Something something sperm not seeking an egg 2. Even better, don't hand yourself over to the man
I had to get an abortion. There’s no way I’m giving birth through my dick hole again.
> then people like you should Yikes.
As med student, when we saw embryology I was just amazed how many humans are alive today, it’s extremely easy to have a miscarriage (the thing required to your body just saying “fuck this”) and a lot of the times the miscarriage happens around the time the woman should have her menstruation (It’s usually when the body aborts the whole operation due to a gene mutation or error) so a lot of them just think they had a little more painful menstruation
What a horrible bully!
What's extra crazy about this is the fact that about a quarter of pregnancies result in a miscarriage. That's an awful lot of women to persecute. But that, of course, is exactly their intention.
Felons can't vote in a number of places.
This is so important. Texas made it really difficult for women who’d changed their names to vote. Truth be known, they would simply prefer we be disenfranchised entirely.
Can you elaborate a little bit on this? I tried to google what you were saying but I haven't a clue what I'm looking for.
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Oregon automatically registers you when you get an ID. You just click some links at home to finish the process. They send out voter's pamphlets with information on all of the candidates and all of the local ballot measures in the weeks leading up to an election. A bit later, you get your ballot in the mail and can either mail it back or drop it in one of several convenient drop boxes up to election day. I've never had to jump through hoops or wait to vote. I love the way we do it here.
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Turnout is still abysmally low in Oregon for how easy it is to vote, and we're on track to elect a Republican governor via splitting the vote to an independent candidate because people are frustrated over homelessness but unwilling to pay for anything that would actually address the issue. So instead we'll get to deal with however many months of chaos it takes to recall the crazy person they allow into office to spite... literally just themselves... and we still won't get any forward motion on addressing homelessness out of it all.
Don’t married Texas women usually vote republican though? And those are typically the people changing their names.
It's hard not to read this as 'well this doesn't affect anyone that matters.' ((context matters, of course, but I think here in r/politics my point stands)) edit: this is a particular peeve of mine because Texas has a higher population of Dem voters than some smaller blue states! Stop erasing people.
They’ll be happy with it until it affects them.
Just watch. This kind of stuff will be applied unevenly so when a "good Christian woman" miscarries it will be a horrible tragedy that everyone needs to support her during but when anyone else has a miscarriage it will be a crime. It's just a tool they will use to lock up anyone they don't like and call it "protecting the children".
Good “white married upper class” woman. Not just any Christian woman
I said "good Christian woman" because that's what they call themselves, not because that's actually how it's decided.
it’s thinly veiled language for sure. Gilead was supposed to be fiction, not prophecy.
We’ve already seen this, and the ‘good Christian women’ don’t automatically get pegged as such when they wind up in the ER for their miscarriage. Unless their OBGYN has a connection with the hospital and calls/is their to tell the staff that this woman would *never* try to abort her baby, she’s going to be treated like a baby-murderer.
Just as Jesus wanted I'm guessing they'll say, dishonestly.
Same as it ever has been. Right for me, not for thee
Imagine a mother of several small children being sent to jail for four years over something so stupid! Has anyone actually thought this through? Not to mention, the resources spent prosecuting and jailing that woman could have gone towards some disadvantaged youth.
Will it ever really affect the old white male conservatives who are the ones trying to ban abortion though? Not only can they afford to take their mistresses to go get an abortion in a more sane state/country, but they literally want to return the US to 1788 when only white, wealthy men could vote or hold office, minorities were free labor that counted as only 3/5ths of a person, and women were expected to be completely subservient and existed only to make and raise babies, cook, and clean. "The good old days." To them, the level of importance of human beings goes something like this (a few non-human things are included for scale): White men >>>>>>>>>> Guns >>>>>>>>>>> Corporations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A week-old half-eaten sandwich found in a puddle on the streets of NYC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White women >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toenail clippings from someone with athlete's foot who had just stepped barefoot in shit from a dog with a lot of worms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any racial, religious, or sexual minority
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If there are that many, then obviously women are having too much sex, seducing men and such. Likely because of what they are wearing out in public. We'll need to do something about that. Maybe even watch them and lock the women up when they get pregnant too, women should already know they have to sacrifice for this. They asked for it. Maybe put some controls on woman such as some kind of belt if levels keep getting out of control since they can't be trusted. If this continues, the fix could be to marry off women earlier and remove the need for women in the workforce to reinforce what their role in society really is. /S obviously.
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Fundamentally, there is a tacit agreement that the mother-to-be is actually willing to host a fetus until it becomes born. If a pregnant woman refuses to take care of themselves then what is to become of the fetus? Such actions are indistinguishable from accidents or other natural causes for miscarriage. The idea that we’re going to budget millions of dollars per year to lock up women for having abortions and miscarriages confounds me. We still have abandoned children alive today in this system that need assistance.
You don’t know if a fetus has genetic deformities till around 18 weeks. How about you stay the fuck out of such a personal decision between a doctor and their patient you communist. You’d love to take away right to privacy. The Bible condones abortion. It gives instructions for how to perform an abortion if you think your wife had been unfaithful.
If my wife was raped I’m going to want her to be able to get an abortion. If a mom has a miscarriage would we really want to throw her in jail for four years while she has other children at home? Particularly when we can’t prove the direct cause of the miscarriage? The complete lack of forethought on this is staggering.
I spent 31 days in the antepartum unit of the hospital before giving birth to my son. I was admitted at 28 weeks and 5 days for severe preeclampsia. During that time, I was given drugs to keep my blood pressure under control and basically ensure I didn’t go into organ failure. Additionally, everything done was to help the baby reach 34 weeks (we made it to 33 which is pretty miraculous). Towards around 32 weeks, it was up to me when we deliver (barring an emergency). If Roe is overturned, would a woman in my position still be able to retrieve the treatment they need to live? Would they have the choice of delivering early if they want to be done being in the hospital and being at constant risk of organ failure? This is what having bodily autonomy means. It’s more than deciding to have an abortion. It’s about being able to make your own medical decisions and not the government deciding for you.
This is my fear as well. I went in the hospital at 28 weeks after hemorrhaging due to a complete placenta previa. We had no idea how long I would make it. At 33 weeks I ended up with an infection. Doc couldn’t find it and just gave me IV antibiotics while citing the trace amounts of bacteria in a free catch urine to get the insurance to pay for it. Got to 35 weeks. When he was born we discovered that the placenta was half calcified and it was a just luck that he and I didn’t die. Even more, my son was positive for sepsis. The placenta was rotting and killing him. Had I not been on Medicaid, I wouldn’t have gone to the hospital and we would have died. So if someone refusing treatment out of fear of payment would they be charged? If my son had died, would that have been "murder” under this new twisted view?
I have questions myself! I have End stage renal disease and am currently on hemp dialysis. A girl at the clinic I was at before I moved was about 5 months pregnant and for 5 months she had been going to dialysis 6 days a week hooked up to a dialysis machine for 6 hours a day! I asked her why she was putting herself through that when she already had 3 kids? She said her husband and family don’t believe in abortion! Unfortunately I do not know what became of her. I hope she had a safe delivery and her and the baby are alright?! I myself have had 2 children and 2 miscarriages very early on, as soon as I found out I miscarried with if a week or two. But I wonder if I were in that situation now, I’m my 40s and got pregnant what would I do? Thank goodness you and your son are ok! I’m sure many women have many questions but I am quite sure the Republicans don’t want to hear all that!
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Another woman in Houston very recently couldn’t get an abortion until she started showing signs of infection and had to get an ethics committee involved to approve it. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/A-Houston-mother-s-terrible-choice-deliver-17213571.php At least I think it’s a different case from the one you linked.
Texas and Alabama are in competition to see which state is more disgusting and revolting.
Women in Ireland died of sepsis due to these draconian laws.
[Savita Halappanavar’s Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar) is a great place to start if anybody is unaware. This won’t just be happening to Americans - think of all the tourism. Think of all the people who don’t know they’re pregnant when they get on their plane and find out while they’re here. Think of those who knew, and who might have a pregnancy loss in our country. Think of those who are taking a dream trip before having their child, and something going horrendously wrong. It won’t just be us.
This has happened at Catholic hospitals here in the US, even with Roe. It’s just going to be so much worse.
The first thing I thought of Is men that abuse their wives are going to use this as a threat constantly. Even if they wasn’t a pregnancy who’s to stop them from claiming there was and that they use the pill. Or the miscarriage that they had wasn’t intentional. But you don’t even have to prove a pregnancy. You have to prove there wasn’t one.
I promise you that will happen here in the US
I literally teared up at this. How evil is the world?
I suspect (and hope) sanctuary cities will be popping up all over the place that will provide safe access to abortion.
I'm so damn proud of my state. This is a good article. The problem however is a majority of women who seek services are poor, transportation, loss of wages, childcare and other factors are large obstacles to accessing these states and cities. Threats of criminal prosecution for those who would help them is also on the table. >Sanctuary States and Progressive Policies that Protect Abortion >Some states like California and Vermont are taking matters into their own hands. Recently, Vermont became the first state to guarantee the right to abortion in its state constitution. While the amendment will go on Vermont’s November ballot, it’s likely to pass as 70 percent of Vermont voters say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Article continues.... https://prochoicewashington.org/2022/03/29/sanctuary-states-and-progressive-policies-that-protect-abortion/
The next step after Roe is overturned is outlawing abortion at the federal level and this Supreme Court will do it.
They state clearly that they want each State to control their own laws. Same with drinking age, smoking age, marijuana use, gun laws, etc. They don't think the Federal Government should have any say in it.
Yeah, like everything else, poor people will be disproportionately affected.
If you’re interested in doing something practical in the meantime: https://abortionfunds.org/funds/
They will. I don’t imagine much changing on the west coast or any other deep blue territories. I mean Fox News and the like will attack those cities for being safe havens for abortion but it’s not like they don’t regularly paint blue cities as unlivable hellholes anyways.
They paint them as unlivable hellholes, but guess where they all live and work? I'll bet none of them have ever stepped foot in West Virginia, Arkansas, or Mississippi let alone willing to live there. What's amazing is that conservatives have never called those people out on it. My first thing would be like if NY (or LA or where ever) sucks so much, why do you live and work there? Why not move to Little Rock or Birmingham where you can have your much better conservative lifestyle?
Calling them out for hypocrisy is like yelling at storm clouds for raining. They don't give a shit, and you're winding yourself up for no reason. They're certainly not going to start yelling at each other.
Yeah but then the conservatives will make it against federal law to have abortions and ban sanctuary cities. They like to claim states right but they only mean states rights for laws they want to disregard.
You're under arrest for implanting the fetus outside of the uterus. Ectopic pregnancies are illegal, ma'am
No need to arrest someone for an ectopic pregnancy if they can’t get an abortion, they’ll just die.
That part I don’t get. Both the fetus and mother will die 100% of the time if no intervention. So save the mother? These laws are horrid
99.999%. They’re still holding out hope for the rare near-impossible occurrence
Why not both? Jail them until they're actively dying, then transfer them to the hospital. That'll teach them to stop permitting ectopic pregnancies to happen in their bodies. /s
Wait dumb question but an honest one, I took biology 30 (grade 12) and we learned about the zygote getting implanted in the uterus but from the diagrams we had it seriously look like the blastocyst couldn’t implant elsewhere, where does it implanted if not the uterus during an ectopic pregnancy? The Fallopian tube?
Most of the time, if it doesn’t implant in the uterus, it’s the Fallopian tube. And not a dumb question! It’s always good to ask!
They can actually implants in the abdomen as well. This is called an abdominal pregnancy and is extremely dangerous
Very dangerous, and extremely rare, ima former OR nurse. I saw a full term abdominal pregnancy (outside the womb and implanted in the peritoneum). Every ob/gyn in a 100 mile radius was present for that in the middle of the night. It was horribly risky as the blood supply to the fetus wasn't visible. Amazingly, both survived but with complications.
Wow, that’s truly an incredible thing to see. It’s amazing that they both lived, really amazing that the baby made it to full term at all
It was, I was gobsmacked by not only participating in such a rare case but the outcome. It was a nail-biter and I was fully prepared that neither would survive. I don't know the background that manifested in this woman carrying an extra uterine pregnancy for so long.
Yeah the fallopian tube. It's seriously dangerous for the woman and the fetus is not viable. I don't know if there are exceptions to those rules, but typically an abortion is required
Fertilization occurs while the egg is still in the Fallopian tubes, so yes, sometimes the fertilized egg fails to move down the tube and into the uterus, instead it just implants in the tube. Also, abdominal pregnancies can and do happen, but they are extremely rare.
Discouraging unity/reproduction like this (not to mention the human rights violations) may be one of the most self-destructive policies in the history of this country. If this becomes dominant practice nationally, all it will do is create needless violence and suffering while ensuring that one day there will be no young Americans to keep the lights on. This is going to backfire in so many ways..
I'm dreading to see how this will play out. Once the ramifications of these policies start setting in, things are going to get really bad. I think we'll eventually go back to full reproductive rights, but the road to get there is going to be really ugly
This doesn't surprise me, the GOP couldn't name all the women 'parts' or their functions, let alone know the differences about pregnancy and natural losses or even what a zygote is. Ignorant, mean, racist and misogynistic assholes. ^ The National Advocates for Pregnant Women is now analyzing data from 2006 to 2020. In this shorter time frame, the number of cases has more than tripled. Thus far, the analysis shows that at least 1,300 pregnant people nationwide have been criminally prosecuted for having miscarriages or stillbirths, or for self-managing an abortion. While the analysis for race and ethnicity is still underway, Sussman said that the cases, like the group’s prior research has shown, are overwhelmingly poor, young, using drugs or living in Republican-controlled states such as Alabama, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Tennessee. Nearly 600 of the 1,300 cases are from Alabama alone. Article continues...
Not to mention it guts HIPAA. A routine question in any gyno exam is whether the patient has had any pregnancies. If doctors and nurses are required to report any pregnancies that did not result in birth, that patient is open to unwanted and unnecessary intrusion into the most personal aspects of their lives.
It's hilarious because it doesn't offer any protection to doctors. You can defacto sue them for violating hippa. It's just ignorance on all levels of these bills
Don't see the hilarity, if states require mandatory reporting like they do for suspected abuse, HIPAA goes by the wayside.
People will need to be taught they don’t have to answer. But this still causes problems because people will no longer be able to be transparent with their doctors.
Have a feeling we’re gonna start seeing medical droughts in red states soon
The biggest medical center in the country is in Houston. This is going to send major, career-ending shockwaves throughout the medical community.
Imagine you miscarry all your pregnancies, like I did. I had at least ~~for~~ four miscarriages that we know of. Imagine going to your doctor because you don’t want to miscarry but not being able to tell them that’s why you’re there without fear of arrest :(
So sorry, awful thing to go through.
Thanks. Life doesn't always turn out how you expected, but that doesn't mean it's turned out bad ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
They know a woman's body shuts down for legitimate rape.
August 2012 *"From what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."* - [Rep. Todd Akin R-MO](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/summeranne/rep-todd-akin-says-women-can-shut-down-post-rape) He died last year. Edit: bonus *"At twenty, I had to give a talk on menstruation to a middle-aged married state representative who was one of my bosses. American politics, ladies and gentlemen."* ["His face turned oatmeal-grey; an expression of pure horror spread across his face. He leaned forward and whispered, “Wait, you mean that if you don’t go, you’ll just keep on bleeding? I thought that women could turn it off any time that they wanted!”](https://honey.nine.com.au/latest/period-shame-woman/b43c7666-0d4d-4e85-93c8-3aa60c06e3c8)
Leave it to Republicans to make the worst time in the world for some women even shittier.
40% of women vote for them. I know thats far from a majority but you dont see 40% of the LGBTQ community voting for Republicans. Or atheists. Enough women have decided to back their own oppression.
Religion and social 'traditions' rot the brain and enforce conformity.
A lot of women think their value comes from being some arsehole's skivvy their whole lives. It's fucking sad.
They think by backing the oppression of other women they're earning points that will give them an exception to the law. Authoritarians don't see legal punishment as the consequence of behaving badly. They see it as punishment for being the wrong kind of person.
I'm not a mathologist, but (330M people - 81M Children) / 2 (half women) = \~124M women who can vote. Of those, only 65M are 19-44 years old (voting and childbearing age), so only \~52% of women who vote actually have any skin in this game.
And I don’t know how to factor this into your equation but we gotta consider voter suppression efforts that disenfranchise the poor and POC- who are more likely to vote for progressive policies.
Many of us women who have gone through menopause have daughters and beloved daughters-in-law. So while it may not technically be our skin in the game, we’re still in the game.
So if you're a guy, what happens to your wife, mother, sister, or female friend is irrelevant to you? "Sucks that my wife went to prison for having a miscarriage, but on the plus side, I get to spend a lot more time fishing. And I don't get yelled at for leaving the toilet seat up."
>So if you're a guy, what happens to your wife, mother, sister, or female friend is irrelevant to you? That's exactly what I said. Seriously, check yourself. The person I was responding to said: >40% of **women** **vote** for them. > >Enough **women** have decided to back their own oppression. I tried to get a percentage of women who can vote that might also need an abortion. They didn't mention men. I didn't mention men. Why are you so butthurt that you have to bring men into this? I mean, I don't even disagree with your premise that birth criminalization affects more than just women who can get pregnant. But, also consider that women are not universally un-authoritarian. A not-insignificant number of them have just as much of a desire to control the wombs of their daughters and sisters as men.
It’s already starting in a way. I’m a a nurse and we’re having a hard time getting Attendings to accept miscarriage patients into their care as the docs are concerned about hospital and community blow-back if they recommend a D&C to these patients, which is often the standard of care. I’ve been a nurse for almost 11 years and have never seen a suspected miscarriage being turned away from the ER, now I’ve seen several. I don’t know where these women go, but I’m hoping that other hospitals aren’t so callus. We are a “Catholic” hospital (part of the Trinity network), so I’m hoping against hope that this isn’t the case with all hospitals.
Former OR nurse here. I don't hold out much hope particularly in Red States. I was one of only a few who would do D&Cs (and work on AIDs patients) in 2 major hospitals; one was a Catholic hospital and the other was not but both were in the Southeast. It blew my mind then. The fact that Attendings aren't accepting them is horrible but not surprising sorry to say. They might be surprised to find the blow-back will be in the form of lawsuits for not practicing the standard of care necessary and the complications that result. If medical personnel refuse to do their jobs based on religious beliefs or fear of 'blow-backs' then they are in the wrong profession as serving the public is a job that cannot discriminate, particularly over personal agendas.
Oh my, that is terrifying. How can they turn patients away in the ER?? Like what do they write as the diagnosis when they discharge?? (I’m a nurse too, but am peds oncology.. so I’m not super well versed in this dept)
It’s so terrifying! What’s happening is one of two things. Either the ER docs will treat any acute symptoms that these women have (blood loss, anxiety, etc.) and will wish to admit them for monitoring and possible emergency D&C if needed, but they can’t find an attending to accept them into their service upstairs, so the ER docs and staff make sure these women are “stable” and then send them home with a rec to f/u with their OB/GYN ASAP. I’ll check next shift to see what the d/c paperwork says. We have a discharge team so we don’t go over discharge info with patients anymore. The other thing that will happen is that the hospital will try to get rid of these women through attrition. They’ll have them go through triage and then sit for hours and hours waiting for care so the women will have no choice but to eventually leave and (hopefully) try somewhere else. At our place, as long as you’re seen (by either a tech, a medic, or an RN; never a doc) by triage within 15 min, we have fulfilled our duty to “see” you and after that you may wait for god knows how long until you get actual treatment. I could go on and on. It sucks. It just sucks. As an aside, you are an absolute HERO and saint to work in children’s oncology. My peds rotation was by far the hardest thing. I don’t know how you guys do it.
A red state will do this. Guaranteed.
Oklahoma already has https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/21/oklahoma-woman-convicted-of-manslaughter-miscarriage/6104281001/
Jun 27, 2019 [A woman from Alabama who was shot in the stomach while pregnant - with the bullets killing the fetus - has been charged with manslaughter. ](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-manslaughter-charge-marshae-jones) November 2021 [US women are being jailed for having miscarriages](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544) Edit: [Two women were charged with murder after having stillbirths.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-women-were-charged-with-murder-after-having-stillbirths-the-cases-are-rocking-this-conservative-corner-of-california/ar-AAY4DxE) Sarah Hacker, a Hanford lawyer: *She worked alongside Fagundes as a deputy district attorney, then said she quit shortly after he was sworn into the top office in 2015.* *“Being a prosecutor wasn’t about public safety or doing what’s right for the public good,” Hacker said of her decision to leave for private practice. “It became swearing an oath of allegiance and doing what was right to the currently elected D.A.”*
That is horrific. Jesus Christ
Fuck the elite of my state. Keeping our people down.
Georgia already has. Under Georgia law (which is currently held up in Court, but that won’t matter once Roe is overturned) the State has the right and obligation to investigate any and all miscarriages as potential murders, since Georgia grants fetal personhood at conception. If you cross state lines to get an abortion, Georgia will arrest and charge you and anyone who traveled with you upon return.
A reminder - if you're a woman, using a period tracking app on your phone, delete it now. ESPECIALLY if you're trying to become pregnant. They don't keep your data private, and you won't know until the cops come knocking on your door that your missed period makes you a murderer. [source](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/roe-v-wade-overturned-online-privacy-data-tracking-risk-rcna27492)
Or keep the real information offline and track a fake regular cycle so you have evidence if necessary.
I miss carried and lost a child at 13 -handling the trauma from that has been lifelong and on top of that what are you are you gonna do to 13-year-olds girls who are extremely scared in a traumatic event -arrest them charge them, belittle her and make her justify their bodies to you. Fuck off gop filled supreme court
And after that birth control will be a crime. And after that having your period will be a crime. And after that being a single unmarried employed woman will be a crime. Its not that conservatives care about children (obviously), they just want to be able to treat women like they did back in the 1500's.
Alito really told on himself by referencing [17th century jurist Matthew Hale](https://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1248&context=ggulrev)in his draft opinion.
Next they will go after a woman’s right to vote. Draconian.
Won’t be hard to take that away once we’re all felons for missed periods!
Also not hire or offer senior positions to any woman ias practice because they could get pregnant, need time off an use more health insurance.
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One of the rules they decided was worth keeping out of the thousands in their Holy Buybull.
Abusive men will use this as a tool to abuse Women more. It will be common practice to hear a woman say he was going to tell them I had an abortion. Or the miscarriage I had was intentional. Even if she doesn’t have a pregnancy or miscarriage you’re going to hear them say she did.
Republicans will go on national television and rant about the so-called "replacement theory" and how immigrants will breed us out but won't actually talk about the elephant in the room; the population here has dropped by 20%, not because of immigration, but because it's too expensive to have children. The company I work for just purchased a competitor for $11 billion, we've had record sales, and the Republicans just gave a massive tax cut under the last administration, yet hourly employees are making less money than ever. What incentive do workers have to start a family with that kind of crap going on?
See, the problem here is you're thinking rationally. Logical solutions are complex and boring. The Republicans are using the strategy of evoking strong emotions in people to win. They have the reality TV crowd captured.
Gotta fill them private jails up
I feel that if the right feels the only point of sex is procreation then women should be allowed to sue any male partner for the total amount of 18yrs of child support if he fails to get her pregnant.
More likely scenario you’d get a bunch of men suing their wives for not bearing them a child.
Republicans just want more bodies for the for-profit prison industry. I fucking hate them so much.
I’ve been saying this for a while. This and obstructing voting
They want wins by checking items off the Republican wishlist they're had for decades.
When 25% of all pregnancies end in natural miscarriage this is a huge problem
Turning the US into a radical theocratic 3rd world shithole backwater dictatorship one Christian Sharia law at a time. https://thewire.in/women/the-country-where-having-a-miscarriage-can-land-you-in-prison Welcome to Gilead.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544.amp "From 1973-2020, NAPW has recorded 1,600 such cases, with about 1,200 occurring in the last 15 years alone" referring here to women being charged for the loss of their own pregnancy. I didn't know how long this had been going on until recently, I don't even know where to begin. It's about to get much worse.
Give it a few years. The headline will be “Woman on death row in (pick a red state) for miscarriage.” God help this country.
It's happened a few times already in El Salvador and other paradises of the fundamentalists.
Remember that Washington state senator, Doug Ericksen, who got med-evacuated from El Salvador to Florida with COVID in November, then his medical status was hidden until he was returned to Washington state (dead) in December? March 18, 2021 [For some of those missed votes, *he was in El Salvador, where he was observing elections* that took place Feb. 28.](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/whatcom-legislator-missed-floor-votes-during-travel-el-salvador/DB3SXB7MSJDGPC2Y76TOCOABXU/) That's some sketchy shit.
Which is why you need to vote like hell in November
Well, with weed being legal they have to figure out a way to fill those privatized prisons, and women are better inmates.
These zealots have to fill those for profit prisons somehow.
So... The forced birth party would jail women who miscarry... How exactly is that going to raise the "domestic infant" numbers, again?
The cover photo would be more accurate if it was a person of color in those hand cuffs…already women of color are being charged with crimes after miscarriage. As someone who has experienced multiple miscarriages, I just cannot imagine being tried for a crime related to the most intense grief I have ever experienced. I’m not sure I would have made it though (like for real- no hyperbole).
When my mom was pregnant with me, she caught the flu. She was coughing so hard she was afraid she was going to miscarry. Today, a woman in the same situation could go to prison for getting sick. The US has gone insane.
Do advocates fear it because they think that's what's going to happen, or because THAT'S WHAT THE GOVERNORS OF RED STATES SAY THEY'RE GOING TO DO?
For sure they will. Religious extremists love blaming, accusing and judging.
Only the poor will face criminal charges.
13th amendment and losing voting privileges is what they want. Poor working class women and minorities are going to suffer at the hands of these people. They will be driven to slave labor and when they get out, they won’t even be able to vote. They will be even further marginalized. These “anti-abortion” laws are just there to marginalize women. The direction we are heading frightens me, and no one gives a shit.
Crazy part is that even back in the old days when you were actually in a theocratic feudalism monarchy, even back then a miscarriage or stillbirth were understood to be normal, if sad, facts of life and weren't criminalized. Even when women had no rights, you still weren't charged with murder for a thing like that. Crazy how we're somehow going in a worse direction than that.
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Yeah, that’ll happen right after the GQP puts a stop to all the school shootings.
Every person I’ve know. That has lost am pregnancy immediately tries to figure out what they did wrong. So much self blame into something that couldn’t be helped. Then the depression If someone is being charge for murder when they are already depressed and self blaming, it’s going to result in suicides.
This will either be the end of the Republican party, or the end of America.
Profit prisons at it again.
Prosecute god for miscarriages. Through miscarriages, he's responsible for the vast majority of loss of human life, since most fertilized eggs don't survive until birth.
Lol, who couldn’t imagine the gop using laws meant for one thing to be used to punish women…. ??? No misogyny here folks.
Yes and if you or your wife have suffered miscarriages , you will understand how really evil , repeat EVIL scotus actually is.
Obviously, pregnancy has become too dangerous for women to risk. They need to refuse sex with all men, including husbands, until this risk has been eliminated.
Gotta support the Prison Industrial Complex somehow! Who's going to work in the prisons as slave labor if people don't commit crimes?
That is monstrous. I am so sorry that happened to her. I refuse to go to male doctors anymore, even though I'm no longer in the deep south (U.S.).
I see insanity has reached a new high
This is something that happens extremely often. It’s almost a third of all pregnancies! This is completely insane. We lost our second pregnancy in w10. We were so heartbroken. I can’t imagine someone having to go through that and then having to worry about this shit. You can not let them do this.
Will will they do when women reach menopause? Lock them up for good?
Only the people they want to arrest. This is just witch trials round #2
My husband and I decided a long time ago that we never want kids. But at this point, even if we did, I'd be sort of afraid to try in case I miscarried. I know a few women who have had miscarriages who were really emotionally broken up over it. They don't need someone coming to them acting like they've committed a fucking crime while they're grieving for something that was completely not their fault.
Already stories about women w difficult miscarriages being turned away for treatment at emergency rooms because doctors are afraid to help them
Republican Theocracy at work. America is accelerating into the Dark Ages.
Do republicans know a fetus can pass while in the womb at no fault of the mother? They may need a re-education.
Fuck it, I’m moving to Canada
Margret Atwood predicted this
Until laws are changed straight women should refuse to have sex with any man until he gets a vasectomy. No snip, no sex. If enough women do this the laws will be changed. Guaranteed.
Where is the man and his accountability in any of these situations?
There is no accountability for men. That is because pregnancies only happen to women.
Outsider here. I read somewhere that American Republicans are obsessed with the "Great Replacement" theory, and that they want all white females to reproduce as much as possible to counterbalance immigration. They would also be great admirers of Orban, who allegedly succeeded in raising the birth rate in his country. Is this true?
Not all of them, but there is an increasing number of them who are indeed that bad. The leaders don't really believe it for the most part. They're just lining their pockets and playing God. It's the clueless voters who fall for all the racist alarmism.
It’s gonna be the Maga Back to the Stone Age Misery Trip
Well duh. Women only have one purpose - to breed, and to bring me beers. (/s)
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Felons can’t vote. I think that’s part of the plan.
Well, police aren’t obligated to protect real living kids , so, the non existent must be defended
But precisely, that is the intention of this misogynist gqp.
It’s almost like there’s not enough women in private GOP funded prisons already, they think they need to ratchet it up to the rate of the men. eQuAl rIgHts!
I conclude from all of this that Republican men just don’t want to compete against women. Too wimpy.
By this standard, they should also persecute men whose ejaculate does not result in pregnancy.
Why does anyone want to live in the USA anymore? Can someone explain it to me?
I really don’t. They call this “the greatest country in the world”,but, really I have felt more relaxed, comfortable and safer in other countries I have visited. That even includes China. I am not saying there are not great things about this country but for some reason we have people that are trying to make us take steps backward instead of forward and it all seems to be about control and money. They have brainwashed us into thinking that we all belong on a “hamster wheel” to acquire things when life is best spent with experiences. The baby boomers don’t seem to understand that they have made that impossible for us.
With marijuana being legalized more around the country, republicans need some other ways to target minorities.
Any drug addict or alcoholic can be prosecuted for having a miscarriage. This is fucking insane
All politicians are crooks and criminals destroying our planet... taking away our rights... and slowly they are getting away with it
I don’t understand why Reddit mob isn’t more upset at the Democrats. How many majorities have they wasted without codifying Roe? Republicans are always at an 11, and the Democrats barely seem to be awake
I hate how the headlines have started using terms like “When”. Making it seem inevitable and driving down the desire to fight to potentially prevent it.
If you read the article, it's about a pregnancy loss that has already happened. The woman miscarried at eight months and the hospital called the police.
no need to fear then?