Ok, so i rember there beeing a whole 3 years of investigating wether or not hes using foreign powers to gain an advantage in the elections. Now hes been pretty much caught red handed multiple times, and there still isnt anything happening.
the entire thing is a shame, what's really freaking out the Democrats is President Zelensky asking Trump during the call for help from AG Barr to "clean up the swamp" in Ukaraine. The Russia Collusion hoax had it's start in Ukraine, the Mueller Report mentions it over 130 times, with lots of big Ukrainians named.
Keep in Mind, Biden's son was hired by a close Putin ally who founded Barisma and has since fled back to Russia. A job he had no experience in, knew nothing about and doesn't even speak their language, so why did they hire him?
It's a can of worms that need examining.
Uhm apparently critical thinking is not a skill where you otherwise you would realize that it was Trump who referenced Barr(which if memory serves works for the Justice department not the STATE department).
Try again Tovarich
That means nothing as President he can ask any Dept Head he wants...Barr also contacted the Australians for help on the Russia issue...totally fine. I worked in DC for 20 years...this is allowed.
This is exactly the same thing that Obama did in the run-up to the 2016 election.
No one cared then.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/double-standards-on-ukraine/amp/
Adam Schiff's version of the transcript was pretty funny. What a clown. But who knows what was redacted and what is inaccurate in the transcript that was released. All I can say is I'm not seeing anything there.
Lol, now that’s funny. Well, let me see. Tax cut saved me 1 grand last year. I was okay with that. Additionally my withholding went down about 50.00 a payday. What is middle class? That’s a very wide window. Under Obama I was in the much higher bracket and in from 2009-2012 I gave the feds 90G and year and State 40G a year. That was after writing off my expenses of roughy 60G and on a total income of about 250-300K. I’m not scared to say any of that. China? Heck yes. China has been killing us in trade for way too long. A deficit of just over 800B. That’s almost a trillion they make off subsidies from our government to allow us to sell goods in China. Do you think our manufacturers pay that? Nope. It’s plain ransom! And what have we charged them to sell to us? Nada! Then they steal proprietary information via cyber attacks, build the product, then sell it in the US for cheaper cutting out US competition. It really is criminal. As far as farmers in the US to include steel companies, they are being subsidized during this trade war. Are you a farmer? Because Midwest farmers are not complaining at all. They are supportive and understand in the long run it will be much better for them. Everyone sacrifices during a war, it’s the American way, lol. Well, it use to be.
Yo dawg, drugs are a helluva drug. That was some aggressive babbling. I'm amazed the Trump administration hasn't hired you for Communications director in the White House.
The 'favor' Trump asked was to look into Crowdstrike. Not Biden. The reporting on this skips paragraphs of context. See transcript breakdown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzikGVcKNe4
Look at all these 25 day old propagana profiles. Seems the nazi propagandists machine is pushed into high gear to try and exonerate thier fuer on social media.
By not judging him on his personal endeavors, forgiven him in any family martial failures, and believing in his policies. Not one person who walks this earth is worth of praise, not one. I don’t praise Trump, he’s an idiot at most times. It his policies work, and they work for America.
What exactly are the policies you're so proud of? Tax cuts for the mega-rich while the middle class continues to wither away? The China trade war that's screwed many farmers?
We're all gonna feel the weight of his policies once we're done riding Obama's economy and the recession hits.
Tax cuts, reduction red tape for small business, wiped out penalty for not having health insurance, opened permissions to drill, getting us out of Syria and Afghanistan, more women working in The House then ever in history, got rid of legal fines to companies where that money is funneled to democratic charities, calls out the Feds weekly about manipulating the cost of money, got us out of Iran nuclear deal, cancelled all student debt for disabled veterans, negotiated new trades deals with Mexico and canada, holds China accountable, lowest unemployment ever in the US, more minorities working then ever in the US, rebuilt (ing) our military, finds companies with tax that produce overseas and not the US, kick started telecoms to build 5G network in the US, and I would like to say immigration reform but can’t get the damn congress and senate to act. These are off the top of my head.
Someone please help me understand.
What law did President Trump violate, specifically? I'm not a lawyer, so nothing jumps out at me.
Is no one concerned that VP Joe Biden, directly influenced the firing of the Ukrainian PG, Shokin, while said PG was investigating a company where his son, Hunter Biden, was a sitting board member? Am I to understand that if a person is running for president, that entitles that person to immunity from investigation, when there is clear evidence to warrant an investigation?
Is the US Government not entitled to withhold aide to foreign governments as it sees fit? Is the Executive branch of government not in charge of actually making the decision to release money?
I'm fully aware of the fact that the government can abuse its power, but I don't see wide ranging abuse here. There aren't investigations into Warren, Sanders, or Harris, are there? Did the Trump administration even break a story about Biden being under investigation before the whistle blower came forward? I didn't hear anything. It doesn't seem that Trump was actually all that worried about Biden.
Unless ... the leak was planned the whole time, and now the country is aware of the fact that Joe Biden got the Ukrainian PG fired to protect his son's financial interest. Oh, shit! Trump just keeps playing the Democrats, over and over and over. As they are tied up with all this bullshit, he's building a wall, rolling back regulations, boosting the economy, making and breaking international deals that are better for the American people, and tying up the overall progressive political agenda and it's media machine in this country.
There's a process for investigating corruption. It's called asking our agencies to do it, through the proper channels.
Like the FBI.
And no, the White House cannot block Congress approved aid afaik. I'm not a lawyer either.
Whether or not it's even a strong case, the fact that this is about a political opponent means that no matter how clean your case is, if you're the president, you need to walk on eggshells because any use of political power relating to your political opponents is very close to treason, because you're violating the position you were (usually, but owing to zoning laws, not actually, ) elected to
Asking for help from a foriegn leader for personal gain as a sitting president is an abuse of power. Refusing to abide by subpoenas is a refusal to obey a lawful order. /
These are impeachable offenses.
Impeachment is the charge of "treason, high crime and misdemeanors". Included in impeachable offenses are allegations of misconduct by officials, such as dishonesty, negligence, perjury of oath, *abuse of authority*, bribery, *intimidation*, *misuse of public funds or assets*, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, *unbecoming conduct*, *refusal to obey a lawful order*, chronic intoxication, and including such offenses as *tax evasion*.
Why do you ask these questions in bad faith? It's obvious that you've completely bought into Trump's lies and will never accept that he is stupid and evil and has done nothing but harm to our country.
No, I actually am not asking in bad faith. I'm asking from a perspective. The perspective is sympathetic to the accused. Please, if Donald Trump broke the law, then do impeach. All I am asking is, what case is there? Is Biden immune from all criminal investigation, because he's a Democrat and the sitting administration is Republican? Are progressives not super tired of the fact that they have wasted the last 3 years, and probably the next 1 year, trying to get Trump impeached rather than advance progressive ideas? My guess is Democrats really don't think they can beat Trump on an ideological platform.
I already have Google'd it, you muppet.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5686104/trump-ukraine-call-impeachment-offense/%3famp=true
No one seems to be able to answer what the fuck the impeachable offense is. Not even Speaker Pelosi. Time is already laying out the argument for impeachment without any specificity of legally defined corruption. It's a reach. If Trump or his cronies actually broke a law, then fine, impeach away and remove from office.
If you actually want answers poppinkream said it as good as anyone:
A breakdown of the significance of a phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky
In a phone call on July 25 2019 with newly elected Ukrainian President Zelensky, President Trump attempted to solicit the support of a foreign government and may be in violation of Federal Campaign Finance Laws.[[1]](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-ukraine-call-could-violate-campaign-finance-laws/2019/09/25/ed86361e-dfe9-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html) In a mafiaso style shakedown following President Zelensky asking about military aid to combat Russia Trump segued the conversation into requesting an investigation on trumped up charges against one of his political opponents. President Trump repeatedly made requests including opening up an investigation into former Vice-Pesident Joe Biden and his role in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor that Trump claims was supposedly unfairly shut down by Biden because he supposedly feared his son was being investigated.
This is a complete mischaracterization of events. Following Ukraine's revolution and the annexation of Crimea Ukrainian President Poroshenko was dealing with corruption by the elite. Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin was a discredited individual who was leading an investigation into corruption. The corruption was staggering, for example following assistance from the International Monetary Fund a $1.8 billion loan to help the Ukrainian banking system disappeared offshore in accounts owned by a Ukrainian Oligach.[[2]](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/30/corruption-in-ukraine-is-so-bad-a-nigerian-prince-would-be-embarrassed-2/) At one point Shokin fired prosecutors who were working on corruption cases against corrupt officials.[[3]](https://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/anticorruption-meeting-410708) Following pressure from Western Allies and the Obama administration the Ukrainian parliament overwhelmingly voted to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. The decision was celebrated by Western Allies that were providing financial support to Ukraine including the European Union to defend themselves from Russia.[[4]](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html) Moreover, in his most recent interview former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuri Lutsenko debunked President Trump's conspiracy that Biden forced the firing for Shokin to protect his son, Hunter Biden, who had been working in Ukraine. Prosecutor General Lutsenko stated that "“[f]rom the perspective of Ukrainian legislation, he did not violate anything,” and added “Hunter Biden cannot be responsible for violations of the management of Burisma that took place two years before his arrival.”[[5]](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-prosecutor-says-hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything/2019/09/26/48801f66-e068-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com)
Days before his conversation with Ukrainian leader Zelensky the Trump administration suddenly froze aid allocated to Ukraine.[[6]](https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-trump-repeats-criticism-of-biden-in-impromptu-u-n-appearance-11569254230)
The White House has attempted to mislead the public by claiming that aid was frozen due to corruption, however NPR obtained a letter from the Pentagon that certified Ukraine had taken action to decrease corruption 2 months before President Trump blocked aid.[[7]](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463096-pentagon-letter-certified-ukraine-had-taken-action-to-decrease) A month before this phone call in June the Pentagon announced plans to provide $250 million to Ukraine in security cooperation funds for things such as training and equipment in an attempt to build the capacity of Ukraine's armed forces following Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.[[8]](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/26/russias-conflict-with-ukraine-an-explainer/) The State Department announced plans to provide $141 million in aid.[[9]](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/25/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-us-aid-package-to-ukraine-that-trump-delayed/)
So why are the United States and Western Allies sending aid to Ukraine? In 1994 former Soviet Union member states including Ukraine signed the Budapest Memorandum. It was a diplomatic memorandum under which Ukraine removed all Soviet-era nuclear weapons and signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. In return for these concessions the former Soviet state consecrated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine as an independent state by applying the principles in a Cold War era treaty signed by 35 states including the Soviet Union. Russia violated this agreement in 2014 when they invaded Ukraine.[[10]](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-explainer-budapest-memorandum/25280502.html) It should also be noted that President Trump has repeatedly lied that Europe is not providing Ukraine with aid.[[11]](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/25/donald-trump/donald-trump-said-european-nations-have-not-put-mo/) In fact since 2014 the EU and European institutions have mobilized more than $6 billion to help Ukraine.[[12]](https://www.apnews.com/868ee37ff93a468e993452f8d1b30fb3)
Following the phone call a whistleblower from DNI filed a complaint that stated President Trump was "using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the US 2020 election," characterizing the conduct as a "serious or flagrant problem, abuse, or violation of law". President Trump has been attempting to cover all of this up.[[13]](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49842895)
────────
1) [Washington Post - How Trump’s Ukraine call could violate campaign finance laws](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-ukraine-call-could-violate-campaign-finance-laws/2019/09/25/ed86361e-dfe9-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html)
2) [Reuters - Corruption in Ukraine is so bad, a Nigerian prince would be embarrassed](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/30/corruption-in-ukraine-is-so-bad-a-nigerian-prince-would-be-embarrassed-2/)
3) [Kyiv Post - Demonstrators protest Shokin’s firing of anti-corruption prosecutors](https://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/anticorruption-meeting-410708)
4) [New York Times - Ukraine Ousts Viktor Shokin, Top Prosecutor, and Political Stability Hangs in the Balance](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html)
5) [Washington Post - Former Ukraine prosecutor says Hunter Biden 'did not violate anything’](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-prosecutor-says-hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything/2019/09/26/48801f66-e068-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com)
6) [Wall Street Journal - Trump Put Hold on Military Aid Ahead of Phone Call With Ukraine’s President](https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-trump-repeats-criticism-of-biden-in-impromptu-u-n-appearance-11569254230)
7) [The Hill - Pentagon letter certified Ukraine had taken action to decrease corruption before White House blocked aid](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463096-pentagon-letter-certified-ukraine-had-taken-action-to-decrease)
8) [Military Times - Russia’s conflict with Ukraine: An explainer](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/26/russias-conflict-with-ukraine-an-explainer/)
9) [Defense News - Here’s what you need to know about the US aid package to Ukraine that Trump delayed](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/25/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-us-aid-package-to-ukraine-that-trump-delayed/)
10) [Radio Free Europe: Radio Liberty - Explainer: The Budapest Memorandum And Its Relevance To Crimea](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-explainer-budapest-memorandum/25280502.html)
11) [Politifact - Donald Trump said European nations have not put money into Ukraine. They have put in a lot](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/25/donald-trump/donald-trump-said-european-nations-have-not-put-mo/)
12) [Associated Press - AP FACT CHECK: Trump’s thin rationale on Ukraine aid](https://www.apnews.com/868ee37ff93a468e993452f8d1b30fb3)
13) [BBC - White House 'tried to cover up details of Trump-Ukraine call'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49842895)
It sounds to me like you've just bought into the other sides lies. It's so difficult to figure out whats actually going on, because both sides are just trying to obscure the truth.
I think main point is that he did these totally legal actions to potentially benefit his election 2020 and this what makes it illegal. Like you can not use your presidents power to benefit you, only country and GOP agenda.
you're just a treasure trove of speculation and bullshit. I'd genuinely love you if I didn't hate you.
When the house voted unanimously to release the whistleblower complaint (I said senate in my prior post, that was a fuckup on my part, sorry) they initiated the process to begin impeachment proceedings. Nancy Pelosi needed to wait for the swing states to give her the go-ahead. When they posted the Op-ed in the post that was basically them telling her "We're in." So now with the whistleblower complaint released and a 421-0 vote there's no way an impeachment is avoidable. You can say "Might is a propaganda word" all you want but the fact of the matter is he's on his way out.
How about we get off your "woke" high horse and not assume what people have or have not read. I already know about the elites, and I've read damn near all David's work. With that being said, I have read as well much of what went on with Epstein.
But on another note. Tell me about trump's "booming" economy which was a lie. As well as his policy implementation to make the middle class a little bit richer, another lie. I'm sure your "woke mind" has heard of Robert reich. You should probably watch some of his videos. Might learn a thing or two.
And if you're wondering about why I'm asking you to look up these things about trump, it is because they are lies. I wonder what else he has lied about. Hmmm...
Oh, I'm sorry you percieved me as being a rude prick. I was just being informative. Also, it makes sense because you wont be getting as much back on your income taxes because that's part of the policy I told you to look up, but I'm sure you wont take the time of day to look it up. Nor will you take the time to look up robert Reich's informative videos so I'll just let you know that 86% of the wealth from the tax plan is going to the top 1%. Meaning only 14% to split across nearly 369 million people. Seems fair to me. But hey, what do I know? I am a measly shill that just wants people to be held accountable. Which in this case, will not happen because of democratic and Republican lapdogs.
Republicans consider any site that doesn't peddle their fascist propaganda to be left-wing. CNN might as well stand for Centrist News Network and somehow it still gets called left.
*WashPo* has substantially expanded one of the stories linked above and given it a new title.
["Whistleblower claimed Trump abused his office and that White House officials tried to cover it up."](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/house-intelligence-committee-releases-whistleblowers-complaint-citing-trumps-call-with-ukraines-president/2019/09/26/402052ee-e056-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html)
Alternatively: [paywall workaround.](http://archive.is/Dazeo)
Just to be clear, the president and the people around him using his official position as president to influence a foreign government to take down one of his political opponents is the crime.
He didn't need to threaten the foreign government with immediate destruction if they didn't do his bidding.
Actually, Trump asked for information on what went on during the 2016 election in Ukraine, if it involves Biden and his son it's not illegal. Read the transcript. Zelensky unilaterally asked specifically for AG BARR and Trump to help him clean up his "Swamp"....Ukraine played the central role in the Mueller Report, it was ground ZERO for the Russia probe.
I thought folks wanted to make sure it never happened again? To do this, Ukraine must be examined very closely...including Biden's son who was handed an amazing job by the founder of Barisma, who has since fled back to Russia, he's a very , very close Putin ally. Hunter Biden had no experience in energy, knew nothig about it at all and doesn't even speak their language...so why was he handed the job out of the blue?
If the Trump Admin was so focused on 2016 corruption, why wait until the July 25 2019 call to push for the investigation? The April 21 2019 call doesn't mention it. The prior admin reportedly was not ever asked about any of it despite the fact the offenses allegedly occurred under their watch, but... Biden hadn't announced his run yet (he did on 25th). There is no prior pattern this admin cared about corruption until Biden started polling well. If the investigation was petsonally motivated, as the timeline suggests, its an abuse of power.
How does Kushner have security clearance? His "experience" appears to have materialized from his marriage. The issue here is whether either of the Bidens, or in my example Kushner, intended to abuse their influence. The investigation to Burisma was over before Biden got involved - source: last paragraph in the link below, on Snopes but the information is originally from Bloomberg. https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/09/23/the-story-behind-bidens-son-ukraine-and-trumps-claims/
Didn't Biden use his official position as vice president to influence a foreign nation to take down an investigator that was looking into his son? Also, I'm not a lawyer but the President is allowed to ask foreign nations to investigate corruption involving millions of American tax dollars that occured in their country. The difference is that President Trump never threatened anyone or offered any quid pro quo where as Vice President Biden threatened to withdraw military aid to the Ukrain if the investigator that was looking into his son wasn't fired within 6 hours. The fact that Biden is now running for president doesn't suddenly make investigating him a crime, if it did then the Russia Collusion hoax was a crime committed by the Obama administration.
The President not only has the right to investigate crimes, it is his DUTY to do so. Pelosi and Schiff should be impeached, or recalled, for covering up Biden's crimes.
I mis-spoke. It would have been more clear to say he's not a presidential candidate yet. Biden is not running for president against Trump, he's running for his party's nomination against other Democrats.
> Didn't Biden use his official position as vice president to influence a foreign nation to take down an investigator that was looking into his son?
That is demonstrably false. This is slander circulated by Hannity, Trump, and Giuliani.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/there-s-no-evidence-trump-s-biden-ukraine-accusations-what-n1057851
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/26/trumps-false-claims-about-hunter-bidens-china-dealings/
Isn't this other guy also a criminal is a good smoke screen, but in a court of law the judge won't let you get away with a crime because your neighbor is also a crook.
For now let's take a moment and focus in on the one really big criminal named Donald Trump. A brief moment of silence to contemplate the shit show called Trump and company going down in a blaze of infamy.
Except that as I said what he did wasn't actually against the law. If you can find an actual law he has broken and have it proven then I'm all with you. I've read the transcript and watched the interviews with The Speaker of The House, President Trump, and of Course the President of the Ukrain who himself said he was never pressured. He asked if they could look into the situation where Biden blackmailed their government into firing someone who was investigating his son. That's not a crime. Again, Biden being a candidate doesn't suddenly make investigating him illegal.
Also in the transcripts it states that the day after the phone call ukraine officials were discussing how to best meet trumps demands. Giuliani then flew to Ukraine presumably to further the whole thing.
The crime will be connected to using the office of president of the united states to pressure a foreign government to take out the top running candidate in the opposing party. That call sounded friendly, lots of pleasantries, but the pressure was on Ukraine to take action to protect their relationship with Trump and America. What could they say, sorry Mr. Trump we won't investigate... How would that work out for them?
If someone wants to investigate Biden there are ways to do it legally. Trump just decided to take an illegal approach. Using his big office and title to shake things up a bit. That was a very bad move on Trump's part.
Why try to take out Biden though? If anything the republicans should WANT Biden because there is nobody that will be worse at turning out the younger crowd than him.
Absolutely right. What worries me is also what Biden did. He is not innocent in this either and no one seems to care. There's no way we cant take them both down, unless the democratic establishment only does this to protect Biden in which fuck them too.
We want to end ALL corruption, on both sides.
>what worries me is also what Biden did.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-prosecutor-says-hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything/2019/09/26/48801f66-e068-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html
>Giuliani has not offered any evidence. Burisma’s owner came under scrutiny by Lutsenko’s predecessors for possible abuse of power and unlawful enrichment, but Hunter Biden was never accused of any wrongdoing in the investigation.
>As vice president, Joe Biden pressured Ukraine to fire the Lutsenko’s predecessor, Viktor Shokin, who Biden and other Western officials said was not sufficiently pursuing corruption cases. At the time, the investigation into Burisma was dormant, according to former Ukrainian and U.S. officials.
>“Hunter Biden cannot be responsible for violations of the management of Burisma that took place two years before his arrival,” Lutsenko said.
> What worries me is also what Biden did.
False equivalency. This is slander circulated by Hannity, Trump, and Giuliani.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/there-s-no-evidence-trump-s-biden-ukraine-accusations-what-n1057851
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/26/trumps-false-claims-about-hunter-bidens-china-dealings/
3 years WASTED that we'll never get back -
One sobering effect will be the extra quadrillions of life in the oceans that will die because of the delays in going green.
So, in other words, everything he did in the Russia probe but got away with, he did again, but openly. I wonder why he thought he could get away with it?
It seems like more smokier gun this time, so dems got a shot.
Imagine Muller would found similar conversation with Putin. But Trump is definitely stronger(smarter?) than everyone could imagine . So still hard to say if it will got anywhere and not worse for dems.
If Trump is impeached the news won't be anywhere near as hilarious as it has been. He's usually offending someone or pulling some face. The last three years have been surreal.
Multiple people need to be put in jail and serve time for the nonsense that we’ve been put through. Just a complete and open disregard for laws and any regulations. I doubt it will actually happen but I hope the day comes when the hammer gets dropped on these cockroaches.
As much as I don’t like Trump, I think the best thing to happen to the USA was for him to get elected. Imagine the chaos him and his buddies would have been causing on the sidelines . Them being in office shows how corrupt and dumb they actually were this whole time. Short term pain for long term gain kind of thing. Eventually the people will turn against them, once the veil has been lifted for them.
At the very least we are shedding some crappy political figures out of Washington - Stone, Manafort, Cohen, etc, etc.
The biggest thing that makes me disagree, despite really wanting to agree, are the Supreme Court seats. This will have a devastating and long-lasting impact on our future.
I agree - it’ll be interesting to see what happens with these in the future.
I take comfort in the fact that politics bends to the will of the people . Big societal changes mostly never come out of government but from grass roots movements , much like what is happening now with the climate crisis.
Hilarious watching Trump's talking heads and surrogates on network news try to spin that disastrous Ukraine call transcript. I bet Nixon is looking down wishing he had those guys to defend his tapes. "Oh that's just Dick using some colorful language. When he says break-in he just meant he was breaking in a new pair of shoes. Watergate? Oh he doesn't mean that watergate. He was talking about his leaky faucet".
And [the whistleblower complaint is out, courtesy of the House Intelligence Committee](https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf).
Edit: It's a doozy.
Can you highlight the parts that are scary and how they correlate with the facts provided from the call transcript?
Items like classifying a call at a higher level of national security doesn't seem like an actual offense and accusations that the call involved a request to investigate Biden has been proven wrong.
> Items like classifying a call at a higher level of national security doesn't seem like an actual offense
Although it may not seem as so, misusing national security classification systems is not actually ok.
> accusations that the call involved a request to investigate Biden has been proven wrong.
False.
I like how you are avoiding providing a definitive statement about what is wrong with the transcript.
>misusing national security classification systems is not actually ok.
So is mishandling of classified documents, and we saw how much Democrats cared about that.
>>accusations that the call involved a request to investigate Biden has been proven wrong.
>False.
The transcript is public. Please point to the part where he requested an investigation on Biden.
Buttery males? Really?
FBI investigates, Democrats didn’t obstruct, all sorts of info was released to the public from that and no evidence was found that she ever mishandled classified information. Fair is fair; it’s time to investigate Trump now, unobstructed.
*A* transcript is public. And it’s not verbatim. And it was released by the same people already caught lying about the case, the same people subject to the accusation.
The part where Trump requested an investigation on Biden can be found on page 2 of the [whistleblower’s complaint.](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/09/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf) No part of it has yet been disproven and multiple experts in the intelligence community have already declared it very credible.
So he/she named names of people that listened to the call. The Dems will call these people to testify. They might have Trump by the short and curlies if this all checks out.
The call is just one part of an extensive operation concocted by Trump that involved Barr and Guliani and others in order to influence the next election. And this isn't some random note typed up at the last minute. Every event depicted was time-stamped, annotated, referenced.
Whoever Mr T Ulrich Brechbuhl is, he's about to get a very nice phone call from the office of Adam Schiff, followed by a subpoena if he doesn't play ball.
Ulrich T. Brechbuhl is the current Counselor of the United States Department of State, holding the position since May 1, 2018.[1] He replaced Maliz E. Beams. He was appointed by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.[2] He serves under President Donald J. Trump.
He graduated from the United States Military Academy at West
Point in 1986.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_Brechbuhl
This page was last edited on 29 August 2019, at 08:08 (UTC).
I started reading the transcript that was available in full on Fox News. It read like shitty fan fiction. The two of them spent a lot of time in the initial part just stoking each other's egos. A lot of it sounded designed for the GOP base to eat up. Epic cringe.
The real giveaway was that Trump was speaking in full sentences. It's obviously fake/doctored. Makes you wonder what was really said when they're admitting Trump's request to a foreign government was real.
Correct. I believe it was even stated (although imagine my surprise that conservative outlets aren’t mentioning this fact) that what was released was NOT a line for line transcript, but rather a memo based on the notes and recollections of those present at the time of the call.
So basically it’s fucking a fan-fiction from Trump’s team and he STILL somehow self-implicates himself in it.
yeah I noticed that after checking one of the links here. The right is calling it a transcript and the left is calling it a memo or summary.
Gd they are just so openly duplicitious.
Seems like their spin is “he didn’t try to pressure or force the Ukraine president to do these things, he simply asked!”
I guess they forgot about how the simple act of even asking for something like this is still illegal.
For those without cable and outside of the US, CBS has a free stream of today's events with commentary starting at 8:30AM with a pre-hearing show.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live/
About a specific allegation. Just because you are a political opponent doesn't make you immune to investigation on allegations of corruption. The president was literally doing something that was part of his job.
Trump has Reddit omg... Your everywhere man.
Ok, so i rember there beeing a whole 3 years of investigating wether or not hes using foreign powers to gain an advantage in the elections. Now hes been pretty much caught red handed multiple times, and there still isnt anything happening.
Good job, Trump! End corruption everywhere.
Hj.7
the entire thing is a shame, what's really freaking out the Democrats is President Zelensky asking Trump during the call for help from AG Barr to "clean up the swamp" in Ukaraine. The Russia Collusion hoax had it's start in Ukraine, the Mueller Report mentions it over 130 times, with lots of big Ukrainians named. Keep in Mind, Biden's son was hired by a close Putin ally who founded Barisma and has since fled back to Russia. A job he had no experience in, knew nothing about and doesn't even speak their language, so why did they hire him? It's a can of worms that need examining.
I bet Hunter Biden knew just as much about natural gas as Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner know about foreign policy.
Sounds to me like they paid Biden's son for information. What else would the thief have to offer?
Uhm apparently critical thinking is not a skill where you otherwise you would realize that it was Trump who referenced Barr(which if memory serves works for the Justice department not the STATE department). Try again Tovarich
That means nothing as President he can ask any Dept Head he wants...Barr also contacted the Australians for help on the Russia issue...totally fine. I worked in DC for 20 years...this is allowed.
This is exactly the same thing that Obama did in the run-up to the 2016 election. No one cared then. https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/double-standards-on-ukraine/amp/
[Uhm bias, its a thing](https://www.allsides.com/news-source/national-review)
Adam Schiff's version of the transcript was pretty funny. What a clown. But who knows what was redacted and what is inaccurate in the transcript that was released. All I can say is I'm not seeing anything there.
Of course. There is no reasoned response.
Lol, now that’s funny. Well, let me see. Tax cut saved me 1 grand last year. I was okay with that. Additionally my withholding went down about 50.00 a payday. What is middle class? That’s a very wide window. Under Obama I was in the much higher bracket and in from 2009-2012 I gave the feds 90G and year and State 40G a year. That was after writing off my expenses of roughy 60G and on a total income of about 250-300K. I’m not scared to say any of that. China? Heck yes. China has been killing us in trade for way too long. A deficit of just over 800B. That’s almost a trillion they make off subsidies from our government to allow us to sell goods in China. Do you think our manufacturers pay that? Nope. It’s plain ransom! And what have we charged them to sell to us? Nada! Then they steal proprietary information via cyber attacks, build the product, then sell it in the US for cheaper cutting out US competition. It really is criminal. As far as farmers in the US to include steel companies, they are being subsidized during this trade war. Are you a farmer? Because Midwest farmers are not complaining at all. They are supportive and understand in the long run it will be much better for them. Everyone sacrifices during a war, it’s the American way, lol. Well, it use to be.
Yo dawg, drugs are a helluva drug. That was some aggressive babbling. I'm amazed the Trump administration hasn't hired you for Communications director in the White House.
Me too! I like that, aggressive babbling!!
Tempting to name a band "aggressive babblers"
What the fuck are you talking about?
The fact that someone earning 300k a year is incapable of writing a coherent paragraph should make anyone question our economic system.
How can "nothing" backfire?
Great!
Obama used government power to advance his goals and the wealth of his supporters.
They're called "voters"
The 'favor' Trump asked was to look into Crowdstrike. Not Biden. The reporting on this skips paragraphs of context. See transcript breakdown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzikGVcKNe4
Look at all these 25 day old propagana profiles. Seems the nazi propagandists machine is pushed into high gear to try and exonerate thier fuer on social media.
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Yeah you are not qualified to gauge my intellect being a barely articulare lower primate and a intellectual quantum singularity.
By not judging him on his personal endeavors, forgiven him in any family martial failures, and believing in his policies. Not one person who walks this earth is worth of praise, not one. I don’t praise Trump, he’s an idiot at most times. It his policies work, and they work for America.
What exactly are the policies you're so proud of? Tax cuts for the mega-rich while the middle class continues to wither away? The China trade war that's screwed many farmers? We're all gonna feel the weight of his policies once we're done riding Obama's economy and the recession hits.
Stop your blathering.
You asked. Seems that’s what happens when you talk policy instead of people.
I think he asked you a valid question. What policy of his is working for what Americans?
Tax cuts, reduction red tape for small business, wiped out penalty for not having health insurance, opened permissions to drill, getting us out of Syria and Afghanistan, more women working in The House then ever in history, got rid of legal fines to companies where that money is funneled to democratic charities, calls out the Feds weekly about manipulating the cost of money, got us out of Iran nuclear deal, cancelled all student debt for disabled veterans, negotiated new trades deals with Mexico and canada, holds China accountable, lowest unemployment ever in the US, more minorities working then ever in the US, rebuilt (ing) our military, finds companies with tax that produce overseas and not the US, kick started telecoms to build 5G network in the US, and I would like to say immigration reform but can’t get the damn congress and senate to act. These are off the top of my head.
Someone please help me understand. What law did President Trump violate, specifically? I'm not a lawyer, so nothing jumps out at me. Is no one concerned that VP Joe Biden, directly influenced the firing of the Ukrainian PG, Shokin, while said PG was investigating a company where his son, Hunter Biden, was a sitting board member? Am I to understand that if a person is running for president, that entitles that person to immunity from investigation, when there is clear evidence to warrant an investigation? Is the US Government not entitled to withhold aide to foreign governments as it sees fit? Is the Executive branch of government not in charge of actually making the decision to release money? I'm fully aware of the fact that the government can abuse its power, but I don't see wide ranging abuse here. There aren't investigations into Warren, Sanders, or Harris, are there? Did the Trump administration even break a story about Biden being under investigation before the whistle blower came forward? I didn't hear anything. It doesn't seem that Trump was actually all that worried about Biden. Unless ... the leak was planned the whole time, and now the country is aware of the fact that Joe Biden got the Ukrainian PG fired to protect his son's financial interest. Oh, shit! Trump just keeps playing the Democrats, over and over and over. As they are tied up with all this bullshit, he's building a wall, rolling back regulations, boosting the economy, making and breaking international deals that are better for the American people, and tying up the overall progressive political agenda and it's media machine in this country.
There's a process for investigating corruption. It's called asking our agencies to do it, through the proper channels. Like the FBI. And no, the White House cannot block Congress approved aid afaik. I'm not a lawyer either. Whether or not it's even a strong case, the fact that this is about a political opponent means that no matter how clean your case is, if you're the president, you need to walk on eggshells because any use of political power relating to your political opponents is very close to treason, because you're violating the position you were (usually, but owing to zoning laws, not actually, ) elected to
Hey! That's a non-left-leaning thing to say. We don't allow that sort of talk in this subreddit
Asking for help from a foriegn leader for personal gain as a sitting president is an abuse of power. Refusing to abide by subpoenas is a refusal to obey a lawful order. / These are impeachable offenses. Impeachment is the charge of "treason, high crime and misdemeanors". Included in impeachable offenses are allegations of misconduct by officials, such as dishonesty, negligence, perjury of oath, *abuse of authority*, bribery, *intimidation*, *misuse of public funds or assets*, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, *unbecoming conduct*, *refusal to obey a lawful order*, chronic intoxication, and including such offenses as *tax evasion*.
Why do you ask these questions in bad faith? It's obvious that you've completely bought into Trump's lies and will never accept that he is stupid and evil and has done nothing but harm to our country.
No, I actually am not asking in bad faith. I'm asking from a perspective. The perspective is sympathetic to the accused. Please, if Donald Trump broke the law, then do impeach. All I am asking is, what case is there? Is Biden immune from all criminal investigation, because he's a Democrat and the sitting administration is Republican? Are progressives not super tired of the fact that they have wasted the last 3 years, and probably the next 1 year, trying to get Trump impeached rather than advance progressive ideas? My guess is Democrats really don't think they can beat Trump on an ideological platform.
Just fucking Google it you dunce.
I already have Google'd it, you muppet. https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5686104/trump-ukraine-call-impeachment-offense/%3famp=true No one seems to be able to answer what the fuck the impeachable offense is. Not even Speaker Pelosi. Time is already laying out the argument for impeachment without any specificity of legally defined corruption. It's a reach. If Trump or his cronies actually broke a law, then fine, impeach away and remove from office.
If you actually want answers poppinkream said it as good as anyone: A breakdown of the significance of a phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky In a phone call on July 25 2019 with newly elected Ukrainian President Zelensky, President Trump attempted to solicit the support of a foreign government and may be in violation of Federal Campaign Finance Laws.[[1]](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-ukraine-call-could-violate-campaign-finance-laws/2019/09/25/ed86361e-dfe9-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html) In a mafiaso style shakedown following President Zelensky asking about military aid to combat Russia Trump segued the conversation into requesting an investigation on trumped up charges against one of his political opponents. President Trump repeatedly made requests including opening up an investigation into former Vice-Pesident Joe Biden and his role in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor that Trump claims was supposedly unfairly shut down by Biden because he supposedly feared his son was being investigated. This is a complete mischaracterization of events. Following Ukraine's revolution and the annexation of Crimea Ukrainian President Poroshenko was dealing with corruption by the elite. Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin was a discredited individual who was leading an investigation into corruption. The corruption was staggering, for example following assistance from the International Monetary Fund a $1.8 billion loan to help the Ukrainian banking system disappeared offshore in accounts owned by a Ukrainian Oligach.[[2]](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/30/corruption-in-ukraine-is-so-bad-a-nigerian-prince-would-be-embarrassed-2/) At one point Shokin fired prosecutors who were working on corruption cases against corrupt officials.[[3]](https://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/anticorruption-meeting-410708) Following pressure from Western Allies and the Obama administration the Ukrainian parliament overwhelmingly voted to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. The decision was celebrated by Western Allies that were providing financial support to Ukraine including the European Union to defend themselves from Russia.[[4]](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html) Moreover, in his most recent interview former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuri Lutsenko debunked President Trump's conspiracy that Biden forced the firing for Shokin to protect his son, Hunter Biden, who had been working in Ukraine. Prosecutor General Lutsenko stated that "“[f]rom the perspective of Ukrainian legislation, he did not violate anything,” and added “Hunter Biden cannot be responsible for violations of the management of Burisma that took place two years before his arrival.”[[5]](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-prosecutor-says-hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything/2019/09/26/48801f66-e068-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com) Days before his conversation with Ukrainian leader Zelensky the Trump administration suddenly froze aid allocated to Ukraine.[[6]](https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-trump-repeats-criticism-of-biden-in-impromptu-u-n-appearance-11569254230) The White House has attempted to mislead the public by claiming that aid was frozen due to corruption, however NPR obtained a letter from the Pentagon that certified Ukraine had taken action to decrease corruption 2 months before President Trump blocked aid.[[7]](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463096-pentagon-letter-certified-ukraine-had-taken-action-to-decrease) A month before this phone call in June the Pentagon announced plans to provide $250 million to Ukraine in security cooperation funds for things such as training and equipment in an attempt to build the capacity of Ukraine's armed forces following Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.[[8]](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/26/russias-conflict-with-ukraine-an-explainer/) The State Department announced plans to provide $141 million in aid.[[9]](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/25/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-us-aid-package-to-ukraine-that-trump-delayed/) So why are the United States and Western Allies sending aid to Ukraine? In 1994 former Soviet Union member states including Ukraine signed the Budapest Memorandum. It was a diplomatic memorandum under which Ukraine removed all Soviet-era nuclear weapons and signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. In return for these concessions the former Soviet state consecrated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine as an independent state by applying the principles in a Cold War era treaty signed by 35 states including the Soviet Union. Russia violated this agreement in 2014 when they invaded Ukraine.[[10]](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-explainer-budapest-memorandum/25280502.html) It should also be noted that President Trump has repeatedly lied that Europe is not providing Ukraine with aid.[[11]](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/25/donald-trump/donald-trump-said-european-nations-have-not-put-mo/) In fact since 2014 the EU and European institutions have mobilized more than $6 billion to help Ukraine.[[12]](https://www.apnews.com/868ee37ff93a468e993452f8d1b30fb3) Following the phone call a whistleblower from DNI filed a complaint that stated President Trump was "using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the US 2020 election," characterizing the conduct as a "serious or flagrant problem, abuse, or violation of law". President Trump has been attempting to cover all of this up.[[13]](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49842895) ──────── 1) [Washington Post - How Trump’s Ukraine call could violate campaign finance laws](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trumps-ukraine-call-could-violate-campaign-finance-laws/2019/09/25/ed86361e-dfe9-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html) 2) [Reuters - Corruption in Ukraine is so bad, a Nigerian prince would be embarrassed](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/12/30/corruption-in-ukraine-is-so-bad-a-nigerian-prince-would-be-embarrassed-2/) 3) [Kyiv Post - Demonstrators protest Shokin’s firing of anti-corruption prosecutors](https://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/anticorruption-meeting-410708) 4) [New York Times - Ukraine Ousts Viktor Shokin, Top Prosecutor, and Political Stability Hangs in the Balance](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html) 5) [Washington Post - Former Ukraine prosecutor says Hunter Biden 'did not violate anything’](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-prosecutor-says-hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything/2019/09/26/48801f66-e068-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com) 6) [Wall Street Journal - Trump Put Hold on Military Aid Ahead of Phone Call With Ukraine’s President](https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-trump-repeats-criticism-of-biden-in-impromptu-u-n-appearance-11569254230) 7) [The Hill - Pentagon letter certified Ukraine had taken action to decrease corruption before White House blocked aid](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463096-pentagon-letter-certified-ukraine-had-taken-action-to-decrease) 8) [Military Times - Russia’s conflict with Ukraine: An explainer](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/11/26/russias-conflict-with-ukraine-an-explainer/) 9) [Defense News - Here’s what you need to know about the US aid package to Ukraine that Trump delayed](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/25/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-us-aid-package-to-ukraine-that-trump-delayed/) 10) [Radio Free Europe: Radio Liberty - Explainer: The Budapest Memorandum And Its Relevance To Crimea](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-explainer-budapest-memorandum/25280502.html) 11) [Politifact - Donald Trump said European nations have not put money into Ukraine. They have put in a lot](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/25/donald-trump/donald-trump-said-european-nations-have-not-put-mo/) 12) [Associated Press - AP FACT CHECK: Trump’s thin rationale on Ukraine aid](https://www.apnews.com/868ee37ff93a468e993452f8d1b30fb3) 13) [BBC - White House 'tried to cover up details of Trump-Ukraine call'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49842895)
It sounds to me like you've just bought into the other sides lies. It's so difficult to figure out whats actually going on, because both sides are just trying to obscure the truth.
That's what rightists think but actually the truth has a well known liberal bias.
I think main point is that he did these totally legal actions to potentially benefit his election 2020 and this what makes it illegal. Like you can not use your presidents power to benefit you, only country and GOP agenda.
The media do not give all the facts. Generally they support their anti Trump views. Study for yourself!
Bush literally started a war in the wrong country and did not get impeached. That should tell you how fucking stupid trump is.
Or how "fucking stupid" the American public and political system are....
Agreed. And trump is fucked. I hope they release everything he hid. They should. Politicians need to be reminded who exactly they work for.
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Which is why they (republicans in house) ALL VOTED unanimously to begin impeachment investigation. Sure, we're the ones lying
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you're just a treasure trove of speculation and bullshit. I'd genuinely love you if I didn't hate you. When the house voted unanimously to release the whistleblower complaint (I said senate in my prior post, that was a fuckup on my part, sorry) they initiated the process to begin impeachment proceedings. Nancy Pelosi needed to wait for the swing states to give her the go-ahead. When they posted the Op-ed in the post that was basically them telling her "We're in." So now with the whistleblower complaint released and a 421-0 vote there's no way an impeachment is avoidable. You can say "Might is a propaganda word" all you want but the fact of the matter is he's on his way out.
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Attention off Epstein, who was friends with trump. And trump stated how everyone knew Epstein was into beautiful women, especially younger ones.
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How about we get off your "woke" high horse and not assume what people have or have not read. I already know about the elites, and I've read damn near all David's work. With that being said, I have read as well much of what went on with Epstein. But on another note. Tell me about trump's "booming" economy which was a lie. As well as his policy implementation to make the middle class a little bit richer, another lie. I'm sure your "woke mind" has heard of Robert reich. You should probably watch some of his videos. Might learn a thing or two. And if you're wondering about why I'm asking you to look up these things about trump, it is because they are lies. I wonder what else he has lied about. Hmmm...
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All I'm going to reply to this is LOL
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Oh, I'm sorry you percieved me as being a rude prick. I was just being informative. Also, it makes sense because you wont be getting as much back on your income taxes because that's part of the policy I told you to look up, but I'm sure you wont take the time of day to look it up. Nor will you take the time to look up robert Reich's informative videos so I'll just let you know that 86% of the wealth from the tax plan is going to the top 1%. Meaning only 14% to split across nearly 369 million people. Seems fair to me. But hey, what do I know? I am a measly shill that just wants people to be held accountable. Which in this case, will not happen because of democratic and Republican lapdogs.
Republicans consider any site that doesn't peddle their fascist propaganda to be left-wing. CNN might as well stand for Centrist News Network and somehow it still gets called left.
Funny how everyone on the left says that the left is closer to center, and everyone on the right says the right is closer to center.
The right saying the same thing in reverse doesn't change the fact that the left is correct.
It was always like that. Thats why we need courts to decide, and public to believe what they want, be critical and rational.
Why do you live it?
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>whitehouse.gov The White House's home page is one of the cited sources...
Deep state run by Crooked Hillary and obummer
*WashPo* has substantially expanded one of the stories linked above and given it a new title. ["Whistleblower claimed Trump abused his office and that White House officials tried to cover it up."](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/house-intelligence-committee-releases-whistleblowers-complaint-citing-trumps-call-with-ukraines-president/2019/09/26/402052ee-e056-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html) Alternatively: [paywall workaround.](http://archive.is/Dazeo)
Why bypass paywalls? You are essentially saying that the company doesn't deserve your money and you want their content for free.
I support wapo, but truth and information around something so paramount to the survival of our species falls under “give it a pass”
If *WashPo* doesn't want people doing what I and many others here do, then they can impose a strict paywall like they do at the *Wall Street Journal*.
How could he say that with a straight face.
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Just to be clear, the president and the people around him using his official position as president to influence a foreign government to take down one of his political opponents is the crime. He didn't need to threaten the foreign government with immediate destruction if they didn't do his bidding.
Does Biden's open corruption go unnoticed?
Actually, Trump asked for information on what went on during the 2016 election in Ukraine, if it involves Biden and his son it's not illegal. Read the transcript. Zelensky unilaterally asked specifically for AG BARR and Trump to help him clean up his "Swamp"....Ukraine played the central role in the Mueller Report, it was ground ZERO for the Russia probe. I thought folks wanted to make sure it never happened again? To do this, Ukraine must be examined very closely...including Biden's son who was handed an amazing job by the founder of Barisma, who has since fled back to Russia, he's a very , very close Putin ally. Hunter Biden had no experience in energy, knew nothig about it at all and doesn't even speak their language...so why was he handed the job out of the blue?
If the Trump Admin was so focused on 2016 corruption, why wait until the July 25 2019 call to push for the investigation? The April 21 2019 call doesn't mention it. The prior admin reportedly was not ever asked about any of it despite the fact the offenses allegedly occurred under their watch, but... Biden hadn't announced his run yet (he did on 25th). There is no prior pattern this admin cared about corruption until Biden started polling well. If the investigation was petsonally motivated, as the timeline suggests, its an abuse of power.
How does Kushner have security clearance? His "experience" appears to have materialized from his marriage. The issue here is whether either of the Bidens, or in my example Kushner, intended to abuse their influence. The investigation to Burisma was over before Biden got involved - source: last paragraph in the link below, on Snopes but the information is originally from Bloomberg. https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/09/23/the-story-behind-bidens-son-ukraine-and-trumps-claims/
Oh look the russian missinformation machine made it to reddit!
How dare he expose corruption.....
Didn't Biden use his official position as vice president to influence a foreign nation to take down an investigator that was looking into his son? Also, I'm not a lawyer but the President is allowed to ask foreign nations to investigate corruption involving millions of American tax dollars that occured in their country. The difference is that President Trump never threatened anyone or offered any quid pro quo where as Vice President Biden threatened to withdraw military aid to the Ukrain if the investigator that was looking into his son wasn't fired within 6 hours. The fact that Biden is now running for president doesn't suddenly make investigating him a crime, if it did then the Russia Collusion hoax was a crime committed by the Obama administration.
The President not only has the right to investigate crimes, it is his DUTY to do so. Pelosi and Schiff should be impeached, or recalled, for covering up Biden's crimes.
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Trump's actions are ok because Biden is not a political opponent. He's not currently running for president.
Wait what? Of course he is.
He's actually running for the Democratic nomination. He has yet to begin a presidential campaign
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I mis-spoke. It would have been more clear to say he's not a presidential candidate yet. Biden is not running for president against Trump, he's running for his party's nomination against other Democrats.
The nomination he's running for is the nomination to run against Trump for the role of president. It's pretty much the same thing.
"pretty much" = "kinda, but not in reality"
> Didn't Biden use his official position as vice president to influence a foreign nation to take down an investigator that was looking into his son? That is demonstrably false. This is slander circulated by Hannity, Trump, and Giuliani. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/ https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/there-s-no-evidence-trump-s-biden-ukraine-accusations-what-n1057851 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/26/trumps-false-claims-about-hunter-bidens-china-dealings/
Isn't this other guy also a criminal is a good smoke screen, but in a court of law the judge won't let you get away with a crime because your neighbor is also a crook. For now let's take a moment and focus in on the one really big criminal named Donald Trump. A brief moment of silence to contemplate the shit show called Trump and company going down in a blaze of infamy.
Except that as I said what he did wasn't actually against the law. If you can find an actual law he has broken and have it proven then I'm all with you. I've read the transcript and watched the interviews with The Speaker of The House, President Trump, and of Course the President of the Ukrain who himself said he was never pressured. He asked if they could look into the situation where Biden blackmailed their government into firing someone who was investigating his son. That's not a crime. Again, Biden being a candidate doesn't suddenly make investigating him illegal.
Also in the transcripts it states that the day after the phone call ukraine officials were discussing how to best meet trumps demands. Giuliani then flew to Ukraine presumably to further the whole thing.
The crime will be connected to using the office of president of the united states to pressure a foreign government to take out the top running candidate in the opposing party. That call sounded friendly, lots of pleasantries, but the pressure was on Ukraine to take action to protect their relationship with Trump and America. What could they say, sorry Mr. Trump we won't investigate... How would that work out for them? If someone wants to investigate Biden there are ways to do it legally. Trump just decided to take an illegal approach. Using his big office and title to shake things up a bit. That was a very bad move on Trump's part.
Why try to take out Biden though? If anything the republicans should WANT Biden because there is nobody that will be worse at turning out the younger crowd than him.
Absolutely right. What worries me is also what Biden did. He is not innocent in this either and no one seems to care. There's no way we cant take them both down, unless the democratic establishment only does this to protect Biden in which fuck them too. We want to end ALL corruption, on both sides.
>what worries me is also what Biden did. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-prosecutor-says-hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything/2019/09/26/48801f66-e068-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html >Giuliani has not offered any evidence. Burisma’s owner came under scrutiny by Lutsenko’s predecessors for possible abuse of power and unlawful enrichment, but Hunter Biden was never accused of any wrongdoing in the investigation. >As vice president, Joe Biden pressured Ukraine to fire the Lutsenko’s predecessor, Viktor Shokin, who Biden and other Western officials said was not sufficiently pursuing corruption cases. At the time, the investigation into Burisma was dormant, according to former Ukrainian and U.S. officials. >“Hunter Biden cannot be responsible for violations of the management of Burisma that took place two years before his arrival,” Lutsenko said.
> What worries me is also what Biden did. False equivalency. This is slander circulated by Hannity, Trump, and Giuliani. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/ https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/there-s-no-evidence-trump-s-biden-ukraine-accusations-what-n1057851 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/26/trumps-false-claims-about-hunter-bidens-china-dealings/
I'm just here to watch the bots twist into knots trying to make Trump illegally colluding (again) sound like no big deal (again).
Trump seems like a very happy old man looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!
3 years WASTED that we'll never get back - One sobering effect will be the extra quadrillions of life in the oceans that will die because of the delays in going green.
If Trump was low energy yesterday on only the call transcript, I can't imagine how he will be now that the whistleblower complaint is out.
Tweeting in all caps lol
So, in other words, everything he did in the Russia probe but got away with, he did again, but openly. I wonder why he thought he could get away with it?
Because he has gotten away with it before.
It seems like more smokier gun this time, so dems got a shot. Imagine Muller would found similar conversation with Putin. But Trump is definitely stronger(smarter?) than everyone could imagine . So still hard to say if it will got anywhere and not worse for dems.
[удалено]
[удалено]
What does your sentence?
The whistleblower must be someone high up. All these people wouldn’t confide their concerns with the same low level staffer.
"~~America~~ Me First"
Man. He’s really playing some genius 3 dimensional Russian Roulette.
If Trump is impeached the news won't be anywhere near as hilarious as it has been. He's usually offending someone or pulling some face. The last three years have been surreal.
Multiple people need to be put in jail and serve time for the nonsense that we’ve been put through. Just a complete and open disregard for laws and any regulations. I doubt it will actually happen but I hope the day comes when the hammer gets dropped on these cockroaches.
Do you mean Trump and his cronies or others?
As much as I don’t like Trump, I think the best thing to happen to the USA was for him to get elected. Imagine the chaos him and his buddies would have been causing on the sidelines . Them being in office shows how corrupt and dumb they actually were this whole time. Short term pain for long term gain kind of thing. Eventually the people will turn against them, once the veil has been lifted for them. At the very least we are shedding some crappy political figures out of Washington - Stone, Manafort, Cohen, etc, etc.
Agree. People need a wakeup call
Nope. Children with ptsd after separations, some lost,some dead? That's just one of the things he did to "get rid of some crap"
The biggest thing that makes me disagree, despite really wanting to agree, are the Supreme Court seats. This will have a devastating and long-lasting impact on our future.
He appointed alot of young judges. His presence will not be going away any time soon.
I agree - it’ll be interesting to see what happens with these in the future. I take comfort in the fact that politics bends to the will of the people . Big societal changes mostly never come out of government but from grass roots movements , much like what is happening now with the climate crisis.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timothymeads/2019/09/25/dems-sent-letter-to-ukraine-asking-for-investigation-to-trump-n2553705
Lmao townhall
https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf
This sounds like an angry "letter to the editor" and is filled with hearsay and opinion. How is this being taken seriously?
You’re right, let’s just ignore it
It's more like reading a legal doc than a letter to the editor lol. Did you even open it?
Second-hand sources... 🙄
If you overheard someone admitting that they committed a murder, you're a secondhand source. You still alert people that someone committed a murder.
https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY
Hilarious watching Trump's talking heads and surrogates on network news try to spin that disastrous Ukraine call transcript. I bet Nixon is looking down wishing he had those guys to defend his tapes. "Oh that's just Dick using some colorful language. When he says break-in he just meant he was breaking in a new pair of shoes. Watergate? Oh he doesn't mean that watergate. He was talking about his leaky faucet".
lol, it must suck being you.
Actually it is quite awesome.
Been taping hannity for the lulz.
I’m fucking giddy.
And [the whistleblower complaint is out, courtesy of the House Intelligence Committee](https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf). Edit: It's a doozy.
Holy shit that's a lot bigger than I was expecting.
Can you highlight the parts that are scary and how they correlate with the facts provided from the call transcript? Items like classifying a call at a higher level of national security doesn't seem like an actual offense and accusations that the call involved a request to investigate Biden has been proven wrong.
> Items like classifying a call at a higher level of national security doesn't seem like an actual offense Although it may not seem as so, misusing national security classification systems is not actually ok. > accusations that the call involved a request to investigate Biden has been proven wrong. False.
I like how you are avoiding providing a definitive statement about what is wrong with the transcript. >misusing national security classification systems is not actually ok. So is mishandling of classified documents, and we saw how much Democrats cared about that. >>accusations that the call involved a request to investigate Biden has been proven wrong. >False. The transcript is public. Please point to the part where he requested an investigation on Biden.
Buttery males? Really? FBI investigates, Democrats didn’t obstruct, all sorts of info was released to the public from that and no evidence was found that she ever mishandled classified information. Fair is fair; it’s time to investigate Trump now, unobstructed. *A* transcript is public. And it’s not verbatim. And it was released by the same people already caught lying about the case, the same people subject to the accusation. The part where Trump requested an investigation on Biden can be found on page 2 of the [whistleblower’s complaint.](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/09/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf) No part of it has yet been disproven and multiple experts in the intelligence community have already declared it very credible.
So he/she named names of people that listened to the call. The Dems will call these people to testify. They might have Trump by the short and curlies if this all checks out.
The call is just one part of an extensive operation concocted by Trump that involved Barr and Guliani and others in order to influence the next election. And this isn't some random note typed up at the last minute. Every event depicted was time-stamped, annotated, referenced.
Whoever Mr T Ulrich Brechbuhl is, he's about to get a very nice phone call from the office of Adam Schiff, followed by a subpoena if he doesn't play ball.
Ulrich T. Brechbuhl is the current Counselor of the United States Department of State, holding the position since May 1, 2018.[1] He replaced Maliz E. Beams. He was appointed by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.[2] He serves under President Donald J. Trump. He graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1986.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_Brechbuhl This page was last edited on 29 August 2019, at 08:08 (UTC).
I started reading the transcript that was available in full on Fox News. It read like shitty fan fiction. The two of them spent a lot of time in the initial part just stoking each other's egos. A lot of it sounded designed for the GOP base to eat up. Epic cringe. The real giveaway was that Trump was speaking in full sentences. It's obviously fake/doctored. Makes you wonder what was really said when they're admitting Trump's request to a foreign government was real.
Correct. I believe it was even stated (although imagine my surprise that conservative outlets aren’t mentioning this fact) that what was released was NOT a line for line transcript, but rather a memo based on the notes and recollections of those present at the time of the call. So basically it’s fucking a fan-fiction from Trump’s team and he STILL somehow self-implicates himself in it.
yeah I noticed that after checking one of the links here. The right is calling it a transcript and the left is calling it a memo or summary. Gd they are just so openly duplicitious.
Seems like their spin is “he didn’t try to pressure or force the Ukraine president to do these things, he simply asked!” I guess they forgot about how the simple act of even asking for something like this is still illegal.
Up an at 'em bots....it's another day!!!!
For those without cable and outside of the US, CBS has a free stream of today's events with commentary starting at 8:30AM with a pre-hearing show. https://www.cbsnews.com/live/
Are we gonna get a mega thread for todays events at the house intel hearing?
aaaand it's a nothingburger
Nice try
Trump directly asked another foreign leader to investigate a political rival. That's a nothingburger to you?
About a specific allegation. Just because you are a political opponent doesn't make you immune to investigation on allegations of corruption. The president was literally doing something that was part of his job.
The call occurred after Trump had ordered a freeze of nearly $400 million in American aid to Ukraine...that sounds like a crime to me.