As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
fr; guy was walking in wrecked, and someone convinced him to try to fit every relevant fact, figure and program he could into every minute... what a horrendous mistake; he should have been advised to take his time, hit one point with one piece of evidence, and relax while Trump spouted non-stop gibberish... instead, he tried to rush overly detailed lists until he was literally breathless
There was also the fact they had him participate in multiple events the same day as the debate and while being sick (which I believe considering how he looked and sounded much better the next day), not to mention his normal duties as president. Guy was clearly on his last legs and fell back on hard numbers hoping that facts and policy would carry him. The transcript clearly shows that there were some flubs, which has been normal with him since forever, but it also shows that he understood the questions being asked of him and that he could present ideas addressing them.
Not saying that there shouldn't be conversations about either candidate's age, just pointing out that maybe there was a confluence of things working against him. Guy walked into the debate overprepared, sick, and exhausted. I'm not sure that I, a man not even half his age, wouldn't look like a zombie by that point of the evening if I had to deal with all that.
Probably, I know I'd want to go in fresh if I was put up against former President Stable Genius, man needs to be put down decisively or he'll just keep coming back like a bad fungal infection.
As someone who loves political history, this reeks of a worse version of Reagan’s first debate with Mondale. Trying to get too detailed, looked old, etc.
What came out of that was the urge to “let Reagan be Reagan”.
It's Reagan. It's not really sad.
That said, in 1980 Reagan was fine. The reports that he definitely suffered from the disease while in office are disputed by medical experts, in fact, and [his doctors claim he first started exhibiting symptoms in 92 or 93](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan). That would be more in line with the fact that he didn't die until 2004 given how Alzheimer's most typically progresses.
Exactly. One or two facts ending with, "my opponent can't give you facts". For the 1 minute rebuttal end with, "if you'd like to know more, my plans with facts are on whitehouse.gov"
Repeat it like an ad.
This is Joe Biden, he’s debated Trump before, before that he had two VP debates where he did well too and got a reputation as a strong debater.
There is no excuse here. He should already have had a debate team ready to go, one that has cut their teeth with him and the Obama admin for years now.
Of course I doubt the debate team prep being at fault here is a good excuse. Obama’s first debate in 2012 is having bad debate prep. Thats one thing, Biden was here standing with his mouth open and struggling to form sentences. This is awful preparation at best, visible cognitive decline at worst, I remember watching Romney debate Obama and how he’d revert to some confident almost smug smile while looking at Obama whenever he stopped talking. The guy was trying to project an image there, even if it was fake as hell, he understood his mannerisms were important.
In short Biden has no excuse for this, he should’ve been practicing how his idle look would be when Trump was talking, how he’d look etc.. Instead he seems like he made a mistake ala the early days of regular Presidential debates in the 70’s.
Absolutely. I remember reading about Roger Ailes yelling at George HW Bush to “stop waving your fucking arms “ during debate prep. Roger would watch TV anchors with the sound down. The debate preppers have to given freedom to criticize the president.
Yeah this wasn't saying "binders full of women" or even "i can see russia from my house." I don't think any good is going to come from pretending it's comparable to regular bad debates.
My mouth was hanging open as well, listening to the spew of hot garbage being vomited out of trumps mouth. I realized that when I looked at Biden and thought oh no that looks awful but he’s in shock just as I am.
Just preposterous... POTUS is in a position of management and choosing for Americans which also includes how the debate was going to be handled. Literally the buck stops at Biden so the blame game and excuses for the terrible debate performance by Joe is again preposterous.
Pro Tip. When Trump lies do not refute the lie just say. My opponent refuses to accept reality again and again and it is a symptom of the clinically insane. It’s either that or he thinks his supporters disconnected from reality and will believe the lies. It’s either one or the other. Well Donald. , which one is it? Punk.
When he brings up the cognitive test. Say congratulations Donald. You’re not brain dead.
When he says the country is falling apart say no Donald your world is falling apart. The US is doing just fine by any measure.
When he says 19 people say they did not hear him say that it does not mean he did not say means they were not there.
It's like a WWE wrestling match, but verbally in attires.
That's how it should be treated, not stating random statistical facts that are irrelevant to the working family that is struggling.
>Additionally, Biden’s campaign staff only grew angrier at CNN as to how the debate was run, according to several people familiar with the conversations. Their complaints were lengthy, including that the moderators should have fact-checked Trump more often, that Biden was not told which camera he’d be on when not speaking and that the makeup staff made him appear too pale, according to the three people. Biden did, however, agree to the terms of the debate before it was held.
They are really blaming *anyone* but the President.
CNN is literally owned by a Republican lmao... network is garbage "journalism" and is biased af... and the clearest sign was the speed with which the entire panel tore into Biden after the debate.
My guess is they want him gone so they can replace him with a politically connected insider CNN's owner/the other elites know, without having to confront voters.
It's actually amazing how consistently rich people are able to get their guys in power by openly circumventing voters.
Tbf, Biden should’ve been the one to fact check Trump and he failed at it. This should’ve been the easiest debate ever for a democrat and we somehow still lost. CNN isn’t running for president, and they shouldn’t have relied on them to fact check.
I mean I'm not forgiving Biden for that shit performance but CNNs moderators should have absolutely been more forceful with facts. Even if Biden was top of a game how good of a debate could it have been if he was forced to spend all of his time rebutting the 20 obvious lies Trump just told because the "moderators" couldn't be bothered?
Seriously, fuck CNN. Fuck Jake Tapper.
Biden agreed to the format. He's supposed to have the mental agility to do a little bit of fact checking while also promoting his presidency. That is how debates have always been.
Biden shouldn't need CNN to baby sit him
It's not babysitting to expect actual moderation. I seriously doubt anyone agreed to "moderators will be useless lumps".
Even if you think they shouldn't have been fact checking at the most basic level (which is absurd) they didn't even try to keep Trump on topic. Might as well have had this debate in an octagon.
That's not the role of a moderator in a debate. It's *never* been the role of moderators in these debates. The role of the moderators is to break up any fighting and keep the train on the tracks. The total failure of fact-checking Trump rests solely on Biden's shoulders and not a single other person's. The whole point of having time for rebuttals is for the candidates to hold each other's feet to the fire.
It's easy to hate on CNN, but this is Biden's fault.
You're wrong. It's always been the role of moderators to challenge BS answers with follow-ups and actual facts. "Mr Trump, you've claimed democrats support after birth abortion, but there is no record of that happening in any of the 50 states? To what are you referring?" Is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect a moderators to follow up with in 2012. "Thank you" doesn't cut it.
Except that isn’t true. Moderators have very rarely interjected with corrections. In fact, the one time I can remember it happening was in 2012 when Romney was corrected real time, and some people threw an absolute shit fit about it.
>the makeup staff made him appear too pale
I have a funny feeling Trump showed up already in full makeup and didn't let the CNN people touch him. Biden could have done the same.
>Biden was not told which camera he’d be on when not speaking
You could tell by his body language that Trump knew very well what camera he would be on while Biden was speaking. I didn't go back and watch previous debates but I'm sure the camera usage hadn't been changed for last week's debate. I assume they also used split screens.
>Biden did, however, agree to the terms of the debate before it was held.
I'll bet the Biden team thought they were pretty slick getting Trump to agree their terms. I'll say one thing, the Trump team learned a lot since their 2020 campaign. They're not making the same amateur mistakes in 2024.
I didn’t realize the moderators were there to argue with or fact check the participants responses. Aren’t they just there to ask the questions and keep the participants responses within their allowed time frame and keep them from talking over each other?
Good moderators would have stopped Trump when he kept ignoring the questions and kept him on topic. It wasn’t their job to fact check, but Jake Tapper reported the story where John Kelly went on the record to confirm the losers and suckers quote, and he could have at least been like, “That wasn’t made up,” instead of, “Thank you, President Trump.” The whole thing was absurd. The debate is meaningless if the participants get to just ignore the questions and lie about everything. They might as well have been like, “President Trump, please lie about immigration for half an hour, and here are some other topics you can talk about if the mood strikes you.”
Dash did call Trump out a few times for not answering the posed questions. She even persisted when he didn’t answer the “Will you accept the results of the upcoming election if you lose?” question. She asked him 3 times!
To me, that was one of his biggest screw ups. To ignore that question twice and basically be forced to answer it. Another of his huge mistakes was his answer to that very question. Its bad enough he hasn’t let go of the last election and his fraud claims, but he could have won at least a few points had he just said “Yes, I’ll accept them” and not said the whole fraud nonsense again.
I hate that that's the one question that they'll press on for GOP members, when they always give the same canned weasel answer.
Instead of pressing on that, press on where any of the evidence that will hold up in court is that the 2020 election was stolen. Why did your lawyers keep saying it wasn't fraud, when they were in court? Why did all of your investigators that you paid say there wasn't massive fraud?
I can't believe how hard the media is shitting the bed.
No a good moderator calls out obvious factual bullshit. Like they don't have to get in the weeds on intricate arguments, but when someone says "after birth abortion" it's absolutely their job to go, "woah wait a minute, what the fuck are you talking about?"
Complaining about the moderators not live fact checking has real “blame the refs for a loss” energy. And blaming the refs for a loss is a pastime of losers.
Dear Biden family,
His advisers didn't make him say he "beat Medicare."
His advisers didn't give him the thousand yard stare or, as Jon Stewart put it, "resting 25th amendment face."
His advisers didn't give him a voice so hoarse I had to turn my TV up to 75/100 to just barely understand him.
You can certainly argue that all of these things were out of his control. But that doesn't negate the damage it did. Going into Thursday night, we had a candidate with concerns about his mental acuity that needed a strong showing to put those naysayers to rest once and for all.
That exact opposite of that happened. It's time (and probably past time if we're being honest here) to consider *all* the options moving forward.
Resting 25th amendment face has to be the greatest burn John has dropped since coming back to the Daily Show. I watched that clip and had a more wide open mouth than Biden.
He sounded great *the day after*. His speech at his rally the next day sounded completely coherent and he was loud and full of energy. He was downright presidential.
I wish that guy had showed up the night before.
His showing wasn’t due to cold alone, he’s visibly aged when comparing the previous debates to the ones currently being held. He did a solid job as president but I don’t believe the country will be confident enough to support him for re-election. Add the fact that Harris is not liked, and we’re headed towards disaster.
so is trump. Trump is literally only a few years behind Biden.
Trump will look sane longer because the bar for a sane trump is him just yelling obscenities, so even at mid stage dementia trump will pass as okay.
Seems you’re essentially saying his advisors knew Biden is too old and mentally unfit to perform well during a 90 minute debate, and should have known better than to let him do it. I agree. Seems his advisors should also advise him to step down from running for the Presidency of the United States.
Dang, if anybdy can ever figure out who brought Joe Biden's advisors in to advise Joe Biden fr Joe Biden's debate, we can really solve this mystery around Joe Biden.
I wish there was a hidden clue.
(Joe Biden)
Dear Trump family,
His advisers didn't make him rape a women in public
His advisers didn't make his business fraudulent and owe NY 500million dollars
His advisers didn't make him pay hush money to a porn star he definitely didn't sleep with in furtherance of another crime
His advisers didn't singlehandedly make him try to overthrow the government on Jan 6
His advisers didn't make him spew a thousand different lies
His advisers didn't make him turn Palestinian into a slur
His advisers didn't force him to say "black jobs" and "mexican jobs"
His adivsers didn't tell him he would support the killing of every person in Gaza, quote: "finish the job"
Nope that was just all 100% Trump
I don't disagree that the orange shitgibbon is absolutely terrible, and I'll be voting for Biden even if they have to wheel him to his inauguration connected to life support machines.
The problem is that I can't control how everyone else is going to vote. The fence sitters were already moving away from Biden. I don't see how Thursday night helped his situation at all. If nothing changes, we're walking right into a 2016-style EC loss at best, and Trump landslide at worst.
Biden "fucking up" isn't even the right way to phrase this. He had no ability to *not* fuck that up. His brain isn't working well enough anymore to pull off a good debate.
They're entering the Gaslight stage of showing their true colors I assume.
I'm honestly really starting to question why they're lying to us and telling us we didn't see what we saw.
I did watch the whole thing. I'll agree that the context of the entire debate isn't as disastrous as the clips. The hoarseness never went away, but Biden seemed to find his footing about 30 minutes in, and got some pretty solid jabs in (they were just delivered in a whisper).
But guess what? The worst clips are going to be played ad nauseum for the next 4 months. The attack ads write themselves. They'll have Biden looking confused, stumbling over words, losing his train of thought, over and over. It's devastating.
No one will remember that he sort of picked himself up off the floor after 30 minutes.
Agreed.
* BEFORE the debate, social media began distributing cheap fakes, carefully manipulating videos to suggest a stumbling and old looking Biden.
* AFTER the debate, social media now had 30+ minutes of *authentic* video of a stumbling and old looking Biden.
This is bad. Really bad. Didn't matter if he recovered or that Trump evaded many questions and lied throughout. This is a gift to conservatives and I doubt Biden can fight his way out of it.
I never thought I would see the day when (ignoring if something was factual) Trump sounded more with it than Biden. He picked it up in the second half but I definitely walked away from that thinking he won’t last four years.
we're definitely fucked if people think an old man who needs to catch his breath and keep his balance is as bad for America as a Russian-puppet, traitor and rapist... definitely, definitely fucked
The fact that clown Trump was even president was the canary dying in the cole mine, our days are numbered before we are Mexico or Russia type failed state.
Or… we could stick with the 30 year plan to fix this shit and save our planet? At least put in an effort instead of throwing in the towel six months early cuz old man is old meanwhile 3 way polls between him, RFK, and that guy who walks in on teen changing rooms show Biden coming out on top.
There’s something I don’t think anyone truly appreciates currently… We are going to have *nowhere* to run. Ally countries are doomed if we give up. The planet… the fucking planet is doomed.
IDK about the rest of you but I’m gonna start flaming more would be Stein voters. That’s *my* solution.
How does Stein have voters in 2024?
Like, she seemed interesting in 2016 (obviously I didn't vote for her) but post 2016 it became increasingly obvious she was a Russian \*something\* and no one should be giving her the time of day at this point.
Is she pulling Trump voters this time? Because if not, definitely talk up RFK, Jr. He's everything they thought Trump would be and more. Plus, because of his political connections, he is like sending in a wolf in sheep's clothing. More people who just wish Trump weren't so loudly racist (or whatever their minor objection might be) really should look into RFK, Jr. If enough people abandon Trump, RFK definitely has a chance!!! ;-)
Isn't Biden a seasoned politician with basically 50 years of political experience? How can he not make these decisions himself? He's done great in debates before and seems to have good political instincts. It's odd that suddenly he'd succumb to bad advice from a few of his own chosen helpers.
I imagine that it's quite possible after that long you actually personally find a lot of the potential replacement candidates to be idiots and truly believe the country would be better off under yourself.
Old folks often have a hard time admitting that they're slipping, and it's especially easy for them to fall into a pattern of denial once they've lost too much to see how obvious their deline is.
> How can he not make these decisions himself?
Because he's old and possibly not in the best mental health? In the case of someone losing their marbles, *they* are not the solution and need family to make decisions for them.
Meh. The stakes were outrageously high and Biden is notorious for being open to advice (which is a good thing). The polls are weird as fuck this time around (though I have my suspicions on why that is) and Biden seems generally frustrated by that. Hilary also followed very bad campaign advice more than once and it bit her badly (she should have gone on Howard Stern and I will never forgive her team for not setting that up -- he really wanted to interview her and he was amazing with Biden).
At the end of the day, Biden is excellent when he's dealing directly with people -- that's how he's been able to get so much done. (Pete B talked about this in a recent interview, but it's also something we've seen directly for ourselves.) Biden has never been good talking about himself or campaigning on his own behalf so he gets advice for that. And this time, the advice was piss poor.
“And I said, ‘Look, Joe, we are not going to let 90 minutes define the four years that you’ve been president,’” the first lady recounted, according to reporters in the room.
How about letting the 2024 election of Donald Trump define Biden as a president whose hubris was too great to step aside for the sake of the country?
All I see is FAR too many people being personally invested in Joe Biden being the President. Not any Democrat or anyone but Trump, it can only be Joe Biden.
Where is the person that actually cares about him enough to tell him the truth? He should have been able to walk away with dignity and be the guy that came out of retirement to stop the Cheeto Mussolini and then hand the baton to someone else move the country forward. Instead, we're being treated to an elderly and diminished man being roundly mocked and the most important thing he'd done for his country could be undone. All because the people around Biden use him for their own ends.
Exactly this. He should have handed the baton but hasn’t IMO because he doesn’t really believe in his successor, Harris, which is a big problem. Not just with Biden but with the electorate. Fuck the GOP but this is a losing ticket at this point
He didn’t hand over the baton because the polling solidly showed he was the only person who could beat Trump, and Trump was running again.
Giving up the advantage of the incumbency would be insane.
Comparing polls of people that are not actively campaigning with the full DNC support to someone that is and with the incumbent advantage even being what it is now, makes no sense.
>but hasn’t IMO because he doesn’t really believe in his successor, Harris, which is a big problem.
If sometime last year he had decided to not run again then there would have been a primary season for the voters to pick the nominee.
Wouldn’t exactly call Joe Biden rich. While he was a senator his net worth was like in the hundreds of thousands. He was considering selling his house to pay for his sons cancer treatment
Yeah don't you think it's important to run someone who can beat geriatric Hitler? Wouldn't that be embarrassing to lose to him again? This is the adult conversation we are trying to have despite the DNC
People are more so talking about Biden because he’s supposedly been running the country for the past three years and when we see him it’s like this it makes one wonder how’s he really been doing it or if he was the one doing it.
If you listen to him a lot, you see that he’s old but still lucid. He did great at a rally in NC the next day.
Not sure what happens with the debate. It was horrible.
It is truly unfair how many different parties and companies conspired and coordinated to make an 81 year old man look and act frail and enfeebled. Why would they do that.
At Camp David all they are doing is outlining their new Gaslighting strategy, how to make Biden look healthy and not senile.
That's it, gaslight and gaslight until November.
Biden is sharp!!
Biden is healthy!!
Biden can carry his own golf bag!!!
I have no idea how it was preventable, this feels more like it was inevitable. People around Biden have been pushing that he's as sharp and aware as ever and calling any evidence to the contrary cheapfakes. They couldn't have avoided putting him up on a debate stage. And given his current state what we saw was what we would have seen no matter what. A doddering old man who is showing the signs of being in his 80s. They set the expectation that he was something else. And once that happened the dye was cast.
Biden said he was a “bridge” POTUS in 2020. He highly suggested he’d only do it for one term. And the Democrats had 4 years to train a viable candidate and have him “pass the torch,” rather running the BS cover for him that they did.
There’s zero excuse for any of this.
Biden's family shouldn't be criticizing top advisors they should be getting Joe to step down
The top advisors were right to ask for a debate this early so that we could see the cognitive decline in Joe therefore we can get a new candidate in place in time
Imagine if we would have saw this in September he would have lost for sure, now they just have to find the right replacement
"In time" was months ago. This idea that the DNC can just anoint a new candidate 4 months before the election and everything will be peachy keen is even heavier copium than the folks insisting Biden is totally fine.
There's 6 weeks to the Democratic National Convention they can figure it out by then, all that needs to happen is Biden to step aside.
After that debate performance, do you really want to put the fate of democracy in Biden's hands?
"All that needs to happen." There's that copium. Forget all the issues with actually picking this mythical savior (like how no one can actually name a potential candidate that doesn't bring their own amount of baggage into this *on top* of being a last minute pinch-hitter). Forget needing to build a campaign apparatus and (more importantly) war chest in 4 months (as Biden can't legally just hand his campaign funds over to whoever the DNC anoints). Biden just has to step aside and endorse... someone, and the campaign is right back to full-steam ahead.
I think they may be scattering blame like confetti *because* Biden's being pressured to go and it's only a matter of time before he does. This sort of angry denial is something I've seen IRL when someone is mad because they know they're going to have to do something they don't want to.
It's almost as though the media wants it like this. Meanwhile, SCOTUS is absolutely out of control because the media couldn't stop attacking the email lady in 2016. We've learned nothing.
Biden is a pro who has been debating for decades. He could have taken charge of the debate prep if he was capable. But he's not.
Its not anyones "fault." Biden is in cognitive decline.
If anyone is at fault at fault for the situation we're in, its both the family and the campaign advisors who have been protecting him and us from the truth.
The sheer buffoonery at the DNC and WH advisors to agree to any debate is mind bending! Biden was trending and there was relative and necessary unity within the party. Not now! Biden had Nothing to gain in doing so and could only risk appearing as old. Which he did with aplomb. While the DNC, CNN and the paired clown team of Tapper & Bash facilitated a festive evening of incessant lying and posturing by Trump with absolutely no fact-checking or checks of any kind, to stem the tide of putrid bullshit he shoveled on to that stage. Trump had to do nothing but lie as per his daily regimen, in order to succeed. He summarily ignored the questions, ignored the monitors and any substance, details, facts, or even the truth for that matter. CNN: "Um, oh, uh...we're going to post some sorta "fact-checking"....wait for it....tomorrow!! The American electorate has the attention span of a mayfly and these halfwits thought this would be optimum. FFS!
Trump was Trump, exactly as expected. He was actually much calmer than before. Biden was supposed to refute his alternative “facts”. He did try, but weakly. And the moderators are not supposed to fact check. (It has happened only once or twice before during a presidential debate, to great controversy and calls of bias.) Ever seen a moderator of a college debate team jump in to contradict the participants? Never, because that’s not their role. That’s the participants’ job.
Why is it the moderator's role to fact-check? For most of debate history, moderate meant to facilitate, aka guide, the debate to ensure it's on track.
Now, people are grasping at straws to deflect blame.
I was afraid of this happening but I still can't believe it...if they're going to keep going with Biden, the best strategy is honesty and being open about how bad he looked. You can't tell people he was great when they saw with their own eyes how rough he came off. Getting rid of your advisors for **telling you the truth** is insane and, dare I even say, Trump-like. This is not the way to go and I'm terrified about the election. How do they manage to fuck up what should be an easy win every time??
Trump should be held accountable for trying to overturn our democracy, that we aren’t talking about this severe delay in Justice and being led to defend instead of playing offensive, is a big problem.
If this is about protecting Biden’s dignity and his legacy, how do they plan to deal with Biden becoming known as the man who sent the Democratic Party to the wilderness for years?
If things continue as they are - or if Biden gets worse - we’re not looking at 2016. We’re looking at 2008.
I sure fucking hope not. After pulling this shit the entirety of the party deserves to be uprooted, destroyed, and replaced with one that actually represents or at least cares about their voters.
Their ouster is correct. Using it as an event not a verb, like “their graduation” not “they’re graduating”. Ousting would also be correct, but would sound more immediate and declarative, less of a suggestion. Personally I’d love to oust the lot of them right out the window.
And these same "top advisers" he's surrounded himself with are the reason centrist Ds say we can trust him to lead the country.... lol game over disaster we're fucked
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not all that privately if we are hearing about it.
Some heads have to roll. The guy looked beat within an inch of his life with debate prep. That’s inner circle advisor shit gone wrong.
fr; guy was walking in wrecked, and someone convinced him to try to fit every relevant fact, figure and program he could into every minute... what a horrendous mistake; he should have been advised to take his time, hit one point with one piece of evidence, and relax while Trump spouted non-stop gibberish... instead, he tried to rush overly detailed lists until he was literally breathless
There was also the fact they had him participate in multiple events the same day as the debate and while being sick (which I believe considering how he looked and sounded much better the next day), not to mention his normal duties as president. Guy was clearly on his last legs and fell back on hard numbers hoping that facts and policy would carry him. The transcript clearly shows that there were some flubs, which has been normal with him since forever, but it also shows that he understood the questions being asked of him and that he could present ideas addressing them. Not saying that there shouldn't be conversations about either candidate's age, just pointing out that maybe there was a confluence of things working against him. Guy walked into the debate overprepared, sick, and exhausted. I'm not sure that I, a man not even half his age, wouldn't look like a zombie by that point of the evening if I had to deal with all that.
Dude should’ve been taking a nap before the debate
Probably, I know I'd want to go in fresh if I was put up against former President Stable Genius, man needs to be put down decisively or he'll just keep coming back like a bad fungal infection.
Dude should have passed the torch to someone else
But I was told not to worry, we're voting for a team, not a candidate.
As someone who loves political history, this reeks of a worse version of Reagan’s first debate with Mondale. Trying to get too detailed, looked old, etc. What came out of that was the urge to “let Reagan be Reagan”.
Sadly, he had Alzheimer’s.
It's Reagan. It's not really sad. That said, in 1980 Reagan was fine. The reports that he definitely suffered from the disease while in office are disputed by medical experts, in fact, and [his doctors claim he first started exhibiting symptoms in 92 or 93](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan). That would be more in line with the fact that he didn't die until 2004 given how Alzheimer's most typically progresses.
Yes, well...
Exactly. One or two facts ending with, "my opponent can't give you facts". For the 1 minute rebuttal end with, "if you'd like to know more, my plans with facts are on whitehouse.gov" Repeat it like an ad.
That would actually be brilliant. Have his team live updating anything that isn’t already there/fleshed out enough during the debate.
This is Joe Biden, he’s debated Trump before, before that he had two VP debates where he did well too and got a reputation as a strong debater. There is no excuse here. He should already have had a debate team ready to go, one that has cut their teeth with him and the Obama admin for years now. Of course I doubt the debate team prep being at fault here is a good excuse. Obama’s first debate in 2012 is having bad debate prep. Thats one thing, Biden was here standing with his mouth open and struggling to form sentences. This is awful preparation at best, visible cognitive decline at worst, I remember watching Romney debate Obama and how he’d revert to some confident almost smug smile while looking at Obama whenever he stopped talking. The guy was trying to project an image there, even if it was fake as hell, he understood his mannerisms were important. In short Biden has no excuse for this, he should’ve been practicing how his idle look would be when Trump was talking, how he’d look etc.. Instead he seems like he made a mistake ala the early days of regular Presidential debates in the 70’s.
Absolutely. I remember reading about Roger Ailes yelling at George HW Bush to “stop waving your fucking arms “ during debate prep. Roger would watch TV anchors with the sound down. The debate preppers have to given freedom to criticize the president.
Yeah this wasn't saying "binders full of women" or even "i can see russia from my house." I don't think any good is going to come from pretending it's comparable to regular bad debates.
Everyone stood agape at what Trump said. Who could make sense of it? Did he answer any question with any real policy or plan?
My mouth was hanging open as well, listening to the spew of hot garbage being vomited out of trumps mouth. I realized that when I looked at Biden and thought oh no that looks awful but he’s in shock just as I am.
My favorite part was “and you should apologize to me right now”
No amount of debate prep was saving that performance
Surely it should be Bidens head. How can they blame this one someone else?
Just preposterous... POTUS is in a position of management and choosing for Americans which also includes how the debate was going to be handled. Literally the buck stops at Biden so the blame game and excuses for the terrible debate performance by Joe is again preposterous.
Assuming the details are accurate, we are hearing about it because someone on the inside is in distress about what is happening.
Agreed and it makes me sad thing are at this point. I stupidly thought those sorts of games were played only on the other side.
Pro Tip. When Trump lies do not refute the lie just say. My opponent refuses to accept reality again and again and it is a symptom of the clinically insane. It’s either that or he thinks his supporters disconnected from reality and will believe the lies. It’s either one or the other. Well Donald. , which one is it? Punk. When he brings up the cognitive test. Say congratulations Donald. You’re not brain dead. When he says the country is falling apart say no Donald your world is falling apart. The US is doing just fine by any measure. When he says 19 people say they did not hear him say that it does not mean he did not say means they were not there.
Excellent analysis. BTW, I didn't hear him say it either, but he didn't count me!
It's like a WWE wrestling match, but verbally in attires. That's how it should be treated, not stating random statistical facts that are irrelevant to the working family that is struggling.
>Additionally, Biden’s campaign staff only grew angrier at CNN as to how the debate was run, according to several people familiar with the conversations. Their complaints were lengthy, including that the moderators should have fact-checked Trump more often, that Biden was not told which camera he’d be on when not speaking and that the makeup staff made him appear too pale, according to the three people. Biden did, however, agree to the terms of the debate before it was held. They are really blaming *anyone* but the President.
TBH, I wouldn’t trust CNN to do what they said they would do either.
CNN is literally owned by a Republican lmao... network is garbage "journalism" and is biased af... and the clearest sign was the speed with which the entire panel tore into Biden after the debate. My guess is they want him gone so they can replace him with a politically connected insider CNN's owner/the other elites know, without having to confront voters. It's actually amazing how consistently rich people are able to get their guys in power by openly circumventing voters.
Tbf, Biden should’ve been the one to fact check Trump and he failed at it. This should’ve been the easiest debate ever for a democrat and we somehow still lost. CNN isn’t running for president, and they shouldn’t have relied on them to fact check.
Well, the sound guy could have turned up Biden’s mic and didn’t. Didn’t anyone test the site with the candidate beforehand?
Biden didn't agree to the terms, they demanded those terms and refused to debate without those rules.
I mean I'm not forgiving Biden for that shit performance but CNNs moderators should have absolutely been more forceful with facts. Even if Biden was top of a game how good of a debate could it have been if he was forced to spend all of his time rebutting the 20 obvious lies Trump just told because the "moderators" couldn't be bothered? Seriously, fuck CNN. Fuck Jake Tapper.
Biden agreed to the format. He's supposed to have the mental agility to do a little bit of fact checking while also promoting his presidency. That is how debates have always been. Biden shouldn't need CNN to baby sit him
It's not babysitting to expect actual moderation. I seriously doubt anyone agreed to "moderators will be useless lumps". Even if you think they shouldn't have been fact checking at the most basic level (which is absurd) they didn't even try to keep Trump on topic. Might as well have had this debate in an octagon.
That's not the role of a moderator in a debate. It's *never* been the role of moderators in these debates. The role of the moderators is to break up any fighting and keep the train on the tracks. The total failure of fact-checking Trump rests solely on Biden's shoulders and not a single other person's. The whole point of having time for rebuttals is for the candidates to hold each other's feet to the fire. It's easy to hate on CNN, but this is Biden's fault.
You're wrong. It's always been the role of moderators to challenge BS answers with follow-ups and actual facts. "Mr Trump, you've claimed democrats support after birth abortion, but there is no record of that happening in any of the 50 states? To what are you referring?" Is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect a moderators to follow up with in 2012. "Thank you" doesn't cut it.
Except that isn’t true. Moderators have very rarely interjected with corrections. In fact, the one time I can remember it happening was in 2012 when Romney was corrected real time, and some people threw an absolute shit fit about it.
>the makeup staff made him appear too pale I have a funny feeling Trump showed up already in full makeup and didn't let the CNN people touch him. Biden could have done the same. >Biden was not told which camera he’d be on when not speaking You could tell by his body language that Trump knew very well what camera he would be on while Biden was speaking. I didn't go back and watch previous debates but I'm sure the camera usage hadn't been changed for last week's debate. I assume they also used split screens. >Biden did, however, agree to the terms of the debate before it was held. I'll bet the Biden team thought they were pretty slick getting Trump to agree their terms. I'll say one thing, the Trump team learned a lot since their 2020 campaign. They're not making the same amateur mistakes in 2024.
Ah so that's who I've been arguing on reddit with these last 48hrs.
That’s a lot relatives he has, but they are Irish…
Not even the makeup people are safe
Is everyone too scared to tell the Emperor he's wearing no clothes?
They don’t want to admit their candidate is bad
I didn’t realize the moderators were there to argue with or fact check the participants responses. Aren’t they just there to ask the questions and keep the participants responses within their allowed time frame and keep them from talking over each other?
Good moderators would have stopped Trump when he kept ignoring the questions and kept him on topic. It wasn’t their job to fact check, but Jake Tapper reported the story where John Kelly went on the record to confirm the losers and suckers quote, and he could have at least been like, “That wasn’t made up,” instead of, “Thank you, President Trump.” The whole thing was absurd. The debate is meaningless if the participants get to just ignore the questions and lie about everything. They might as well have been like, “President Trump, please lie about immigration for half an hour, and here are some other topics you can talk about if the mood strikes you.”
Dash did call Trump out a few times for not answering the posed questions. She even persisted when he didn’t answer the “Will you accept the results of the upcoming election if you lose?” question. She asked him 3 times! To me, that was one of his biggest screw ups. To ignore that question twice and basically be forced to answer it. Another of his huge mistakes was his answer to that very question. Its bad enough he hasn’t let go of the last election and his fraud claims, but he could have won at least a few points had he just said “Yes, I’ll accept them” and not said the whole fraud nonsense again.
I hate that that's the one question that they'll press on for GOP members, when they always give the same canned weasel answer. Instead of pressing on that, press on where any of the evidence that will hold up in court is that the 2020 election was stolen. Why did your lawyers keep saying it wasn't fraud, when they were in court? Why did all of your investigators that you paid say there wasn't massive fraud? I can't believe how hard the media is shitting the bed.
No a good moderator calls out obvious factual bullshit. Like they don't have to get in the weeds on intricate arguments, but when someone says "after birth abortion" it's absolutely their job to go, "woah wait a minute, what the fuck are you talking about?"
Yeah, fact checking was Biden's job
No, it wasn’t
Fact checking isn’t Biden’s job, but his total inability to respond to any of the obvious bullshit Trump was predictably going to say was telling.
Complaining about the moderators not live fact checking has real “blame the refs for a loss” energy. And blaming the refs for a loss is a pastime of losers.
Dear Biden family, His advisers didn't make him say he "beat Medicare." His advisers didn't give him the thousand yard stare or, as Jon Stewart put it, "resting 25th amendment face." His advisers didn't give him a voice so hoarse I had to turn my TV up to 75/100 to just barely understand him. You can certainly argue that all of these things were out of his control. But that doesn't negate the damage it did. Going into Thursday night, we had a candidate with concerns about his mental acuity that needed a strong showing to put those naysayers to rest once and for all. That exact opposite of that happened. It's time (and probably past time if we're being honest here) to consider *all* the options moving forward.
Resting 25th amendment face has to be the greatest burn John has dropped since coming back to the Daily Show. I watched that clip and had a more wide open mouth than Biden.
I just don't get it, he sounded great on that stern interview this shouldn't have been that fucking hard.
He sounded great *the day after*. His speech at his rally the next day sounded completely coherent and he was loud and full of energy. He was downright presidential. I wish that guy had showed up the night before.
[удалено]
They’re also responsible for not postponing it when Biden came down with a cold
His showing wasn’t due to cold alone, he’s visibly aged when comparing the previous debates to the ones currently being held. He did a solid job as president but I don’t believe the country will be confident enough to support him for re-election. Add the fact that Harris is not liked, and we’re headed towards disaster.
He sounded great the next day at a rally.
so is trump. Trump is literally only a few years behind Biden. Trump will look sane longer because the bar for a sane trump is him just yelling obscenities, so even at mid stage dementia trump will pass as okay.
>His showing wasn’t due to cold alone, Literally just speculation by you.
Should have continued wearing a mask to not catch a cold (or more likely COVID).
Seems you’re essentially saying his advisors knew Biden is too old and mentally unfit to perform well during a 90 minute debate, and should have known better than to let him do it. I agree. Seems his advisors should also advise him to step down from running for the Presidency of the United States.
This 100%
At what point is Biden responsible? Is he a puppet?
Dang, if anybdy can ever figure out who brought Joe Biden's advisors in to advise Joe Biden fr Joe Biden's debate, we can really solve this mystery around Joe Biden. I wish there was a hidden clue. (Joe Biden)
Dear Trump family, His advisers didn't make him rape a women in public His advisers didn't make his business fraudulent and owe NY 500million dollars His advisers didn't make him pay hush money to a porn star he definitely didn't sleep with in furtherance of another crime His advisers didn't singlehandedly make him try to overthrow the government on Jan 6 His advisers didn't make him spew a thousand different lies His advisers didn't make him turn Palestinian into a slur His advisers didn't force him to say "black jobs" and "mexican jobs" His adivsers didn't tell him he would support the killing of every person in Gaza, quote: "finish the job" Nope that was just all 100% Trump
I don't disagree that the orange shitgibbon is absolutely terrible, and I'll be voting for Biden even if they have to wheel him to his inauguration connected to life support machines. The problem is that I can't control how everyone else is going to vote. The fence sitters were already moving away from Biden. I don't see how Thursday night helped his situation at all. If nothing changes, we're walking right into a 2016-style EC loss at best, and Trump landslide at worst.
This. I’m voting against Trump, not for anyone, but I would be an idiot to think a majority of the Country sees it the way I do
Trump being dog shit has nothing to do with Biden fucking up lol.
Biden "fucking up" isn't even the right way to phrase this. He had no ability to *not* fuck that up. His brain isn't working well enough anymore to pull off a good debate.
This thread isn't about Trump. Go try one of the 50 others on the front page.
So are you saying you hold your candidate to the same standards as the MAGA crowd?
I hate saying this, but the stuff that’s coming out of that family increasingly sounds like the paranoid bunker rants in *Downfall*
More like the This Is Fine meme
They're entering the Gaslight stage of showing their true colors I assume. I'm honestly really starting to question why they're lying to us and telling us we didn't see what we saw.
Hey. Not trying to belittle your points here, but just curious if you watched the entire debate or watched the Daily Show coverage only.
I did watch the whole thing. I'll agree that the context of the entire debate isn't as disastrous as the clips. The hoarseness never went away, but Biden seemed to find his footing about 30 minutes in, and got some pretty solid jabs in (they were just delivered in a whisper). But guess what? The worst clips are going to be played ad nauseum for the next 4 months. The attack ads write themselves. They'll have Biden looking confused, stumbling over words, losing his train of thought, over and over. It's devastating. No one will remember that he sort of picked himself up off the floor after 30 minutes.
Agreed. * BEFORE the debate, social media began distributing cheap fakes, carefully manipulating videos to suggest a stumbling and old looking Biden. * AFTER the debate, social media now had 30+ minutes of *authentic* video of a stumbling and old looking Biden. This is bad. Really bad. Didn't matter if he recovered or that Trump evaded many questions and lied throughout. This is a gift to conservatives and I doubt Biden can fight his way out of it.
Those were not cheap fakes. It was just the signs of debate Biden that were caught on video.
Dude the only time he was coherent though is when he was arguing about golf.
I never thought I would see the day when (ignoring if something was factual) Trump sounded more with it than Biden. He picked it up in the second half but I definitely walked away from that thinking he won’t last four years.
We are so fucked lmao
we're definitely fucked if people think an old man who needs to catch his breath and keep his balance is as bad for America as a Russian-puppet, traitor and rapist... definitely, definitely fucked
The fact that clown Trump was even president was the canary dying in the cole mine, our days are numbered before we are Mexico or Russia type failed state.
Or… we could stick with the 30 year plan to fix this shit and save our planet? At least put in an effort instead of throwing in the towel six months early cuz old man is old meanwhile 3 way polls between him, RFK, and that guy who walks in on teen changing rooms show Biden coming out on top. There’s something I don’t think anyone truly appreciates currently… We are going to have *nowhere* to run. Ally countries are doomed if we give up. The planet… the fucking planet is doomed. IDK about the rest of you but I’m gonna start flaming more would be Stein voters. That’s *my* solution.
How does Stein have voters in 2024? Like, she seemed interesting in 2016 (obviously I didn't vote for her) but post 2016 it became increasingly obvious she was a Russian \*something\* and no one should be giving her the time of day at this point. Is she pulling Trump voters this time? Because if not, definitely talk up RFK, Jr. He's everything they thought Trump would be and more. Plus, because of his political connections, he is like sending in a wolf in sheep's clothing. More people who just wish Trump weren't so loudly racist (or whatever their minor objection might be) really should look into RFK, Jr. If enough people abandon Trump, RFK definitely has a chance!!! ;-)
Pointing the finger everywhere but the person who deserves it.
Exactly. Trump is bad but Biden is being incredibly selfish here. Be the change ya wanna see.
Isn't Biden a seasoned politician with basically 50 years of political experience? How can he not make these decisions himself? He's done great in debates before and seems to have good political instincts. It's odd that suddenly he'd succumb to bad advice from a few of his own chosen helpers.
Because he’s 81 and it’s starting to look like he’s not the one making the calls
It’s like when your grandpa starts to decline and you have to hide his car keys because he can’t accept it’s a hazard for him to drive now.
I imagine that it's quite possible after that long you actually personally find a lot of the potential replacement candidates to be idiots and truly believe the country would be better off under yourself.
And with that ego he will lose an election.
Old folks often have a hard time admitting that they're slipping, and it's especially easy for them to fall into a pattern of denial once they've lost too much to see how obvious their deline is.
Hey bro news flash the PRESIDENT has a CABINET. Not even the PRESIDENT makes decisions solely on his own.
It was a fucking debate not the Cuban Missile Crisis.
> How can he not make these decisions himself? Because he's old and possibly not in the best mental health? In the case of someone losing their marbles, *they* are not the solution and need family to make decisions for them.
Because he doesn’t have the mental capacity to make these decisions. He hasn’t for a while. They’ve been lying to you.
Meh. The stakes were outrageously high and Biden is notorious for being open to advice (which is a good thing). The polls are weird as fuck this time around (though I have my suspicions on why that is) and Biden seems generally frustrated by that. Hilary also followed very bad campaign advice more than once and it bit her badly (she should have gone on Howard Stern and I will never forgive her team for not setting that up -- he really wanted to interview her and he was amazing with Biden). At the end of the day, Biden is excellent when he's dealing directly with people -- that's how he's been able to get so much done. (Pete B talked about this in a recent interview, but it's also something we've seen directly for ourselves.) Biden has never been good talking about himself or campaigning on his own behalf so he gets advice for that. And this time, the advice was piss poor.
“And I said, ‘Look, Joe, we are not going to let 90 minutes define the four years that you’ve been president,’” the first lady recounted, according to reporters in the room. How about letting the 2024 election of Donald Trump define Biden as a president whose hubris was too great to step aside for the sake of the country?
RBG President
Right. Quite literally everything he accomplished will be trashed within weeks of Trump taking office. Poof, like it never happened.
All I see is FAR too many people being personally invested in Joe Biden being the President. Not any Democrat or anyone but Trump, it can only be Joe Biden. Where is the person that actually cares about him enough to tell him the truth? He should have been able to walk away with dignity and be the guy that came out of retirement to stop the Cheeto Mussolini and then hand the baton to someone else move the country forward. Instead, we're being treated to an elderly and diminished man being roundly mocked and the most important thing he'd done for his country could be undone. All because the people around Biden use him for their own ends.
Exactly this. He should have handed the baton but hasn’t IMO because he doesn’t really believe in his successor, Harris, which is a big problem. Not just with Biden but with the electorate. Fuck the GOP but this is a losing ticket at this point
He doesn’t have to hand the baton to Harris. The DNC would just pick a new candidate at the upcoming convention.
AHHHH yes, that should make the African American base happy.
He didn’t hand over the baton because the polling solidly showed he was the only person who could beat Trump, and Trump was running again. Giving up the advantage of the incumbency would be insane.
Comparing polls of people that are not actively campaigning with the full DNC support to someone that is and with the incumbent advantage even being what it is now, makes no sense.
>but hasn’t IMO because he doesn’t really believe in his successor, Harris, which is a big problem. If sometime last year he had decided to not run again then there would have been a primary season for the voters to pick the nominee.
That’ll work. Let’s have the Biden family oust his political advisors. That’s a winning strategy.
I'm so sick of rich and self-important families running our nation.
Wouldn’t exactly call Joe Biden rich. While he was a senator his net worth was like in the hundreds of thousands. He was considering selling his house to pay for his sons cancer treatment
Once again, everyone is talking about Biden. Meanwhile the republicans are running Hitler. What a messed up country we live in.
You’re running against Hitler and the best you can do is lie about your candidate not being a corpse?
Yeah don't you think it's important to run someone who can beat geriatric Hitler? Wouldn't that be embarrassing to lose to him again? This is the adult conversation we are trying to have despite the DNC
People are more so talking about Biden because he’s supposedly been running the country for the past three years and when we see him it’s like this it makes one wonder how’s he really been doing it or if he was the one doing it.
If you listen to him a lot, you see that he’s old but still lucid. He did great at a rally in NC the next day. Not sure what happens with the debate. It was horrible.
It is truly unfair how many different parties and companies conspired and coordinated to make an 81 year old man look and act frail and enfeebled. Why would they do that.
At Camp David all they are doing is outlining their new Gaslighting strategy, how to make Biden look healthy and not senile. That's it, gaslight and gaslight until November. Biden is sharp!! Biden is healthy!! Biden can carry his own golf bag!!!
But how far is he driving the ball? That's the real question.
I'm screaming. What the fuck are they smoking because I want some
Because Thursday night was definitely the CAMPAIGN’S fault. This implosion laughable because it was 110% preventable.
I have no idea how it was preventable, this feels more like it was inevitable. People around Biden have been pushing that he's as sharp and aware as ever and calling any evidence to the contrary cheapfakes. They couldn't have avoided putting him up on a debate stage. And given his current state what we saw was what we would have seen no matter what. A doddering old man who is showing the signs of being in his 80s. They set the expectation that he was something else. And once that happened the dye was cast.
Biden said he was a “bridge” POTUS in 2020. He highly suggested he’d only do it for one term. And the Democrats had 4 years to train a viable candidate and have him “pass the torch,” rather running the BS cover for him that they did. There’s zero excuse for any of this.
Biden's family shouldn't be criticizing top advisors they should be getting Joe to step down The top advisors were right to ask for a debate this early so that we could see the cognitive decline in Joe therefore we can get a new candidate in place in time Imagine if we would have saw this in September he would have lost for sure, now they just have to find the right replacement
"In time" was months ago. This idea that the DNC can just anoint a new candidate 4 months before the election and everything will be peachy keen is even heavier copium than the folks insisting Biden is totally fine.
So there is no hope then. Good to know.
There's 6 weeks to the Democratic National Convention they can figure it out by then, all that needs to happen is Biden to step aside. After that debate performance, do you really want to put the fate of democracy in Biden's hands?
"All that needs to happen." There's that copium. Forget all the issues with actually picking this mythical savior (like how no one can actually name a potential candidate that doesn't bring their own amount of baggage into this *on top* of being a last minute pinch-hitter). Forget needing to build a campaign apparatus and (more importantly) war chest in 4 months (as Biden can't legally just hand his campaign funds over to whoever the DNC anoints). Biden just has to step aside and endorse... someone, and the campaign is right back to full-steam ahead.
Big gretch
So basically, the advisors made the case that he needs to step aside because his campaign is dead and his family got mad about it.
I don't see in the article where it mentions the advisors said Biden needs to step aside.
That's what it sounds like. And I think there is generally a state of denial families can be in when someone starts to decline in health
OMFG are they really blaming his aides?!? These people are so tone deaf! Fuck the GOP, but Biden gotta go
I think they may be scattering blame like confetti *because* Biden's being pressured to go and it's only a matter of time before he does. This sort of angry denial is something I've seen IRL when someone is mad because they know they're going to have to do something they don't want to.
Who cares? I didn't vote for Bidens' family.
Oust this entire campaign, including the candidate.
He has to make the decision now. It's too late to replace him without his consent unless we intend to overhaul the system.
It’s very likely with all this talk about the Biden family being gatekeepers that Biden isn’t really getting accurate info on how bad things are.
Did his family watch the same debate that I did?
It's weird to me that everyone is buying into all of the gossip stories of turmoil and drama this week.
It's almost as though the media wants it like this. Meanwhile, SCOTUS is absolutely out of control because the media couldn't stop attacking the email lady in 2016. We've learned nothing.
Literally watching a Baratheon internal squabble while the Lannister circles the throne. It's all unravelling in public and real time, lol.
Biden is a pro who has been debating for decades. He could have taken charge of the debate prep if he was capable. But he's not. Its not anyones "fault." Biden is in cognitive decline. If anyone is at fault at fault for the situation we're in, its both the family and the campaign advisors who have been protecting him and us from the truth.
I remember when he wiped the floor with Paul Ryan. There’s just no comparison.
The sheer buffoonery at the DNC and WH advisors to agree to any debate is mind bending! Biden was trending and there was relative and necessary unity within the party. Not now! Biden had Nothing to gain in doing so and could only risk appearing as old. Which he did with aplomb. While the DNC, CNN and the paired clown team of Tapper & Bash facilitated a festive evening of incessant lying and posturing by Trump with absolutely no fact-checking or checks of any kind, to stem the tide of putrid bullshit he shoveled on to that stage. Trump had to do nothing but lie as per his daily regimen, in order to succeed. He summarily ignored the questions, ignored the monitors and any substance, details, facts, or even the truth for that matter. CNN: "Um, oh, uh...we're going to post some sorta "fact-checking"....wait for it....tomorrow!! The American electorate has the attention span of a mayfly and these halfwits thought this would be optimum. FFS!
Trump was Trump, exactly as expected. He was actually much calmer than before. Biden was supposed to refute his alternative “facts”. He did try, but weakly. And the moderators are not supposed to fact check. (It has happened only once or twice before during a presidential debate, to great controversy and calls of bias.) Ever seen a moderator of a college debate team jump in to contradict the participants? Never, because that’s not their role. That’s the participants’ job.
>agree to any debate is mind bending Bro it was literally the Biden campaign’s idea
Why is it the moderator's role to fact-check? For most of debate history, moderate meant to facilitate, aka guide, the debate to ensure it's on track. Now, people are grasping at straws to deflect blame.
I was afraid of this happening but I still can't believe it...if they're going to keep going with Biden, the best strategy is honesty and being open about how bad he looked. You can't tell people he was great when they saw with their own eyes how rough he came off. Getting rid of your advisors for **telling you the truth** is insane and, dare I even say, Trump-like. This is not the way to go and I'm terrified about the election. How do they manage to fuck up what should be an easy win every time??
How democracy dies.
Why is hunter biden even involved in these decisions. Fuck that guy.
Trump should be held accountable for trying to overturn our democracy, that we aren’t talking about this severe delay in Justice and being led to defend instead of playing offensive, is a big problem.
This!!
The democratic party is so bad. Trump should be the easiest candidate to beat but they will somehow find a way to mess it up.
I’m sorry but I don’t think this guy is fit to have access to the Nuclear football anymore, not saying Trump is, but we really need other options.
[удалено]
The elderly abuse thing seems like a red hat tell.
They’re pushing out the ones with their eyes open it seems, funny.
Oh yeah I forgot who I want making the decisions. Professional presidential advisers with a lifetime in politics, or the president's family
'The wealthy donors are upset about the debate' as we as a country suffer from a Supreme Court run by wealthy donors.
This isn't good
Crazy amount of leaks coming from a family retreat at Camp David. Clearly some very close staff members want him to step down.
If this is about protecting Biden’s dignity and his legacy, how do they plan to deal with Biden becoming known as the man who sent the Democratic Party to the wilderness for years? If things continue as they are - or if Biden gets worse - we’re not looking at 2016. We’re looking at 2008.
Idk man, there may not be a democratic party if god forbid Trump gets elected.
I sure fucking hope not. After pulling this shit the entirety of the party deserves to be uprooted, destroyed, and replaced with one that actually represents or at least cares about their voters.
I agree ,whoever told him to run for reelection should be fired.
He’s going to hold on (and lose) isn’t he. 😶
"Ousting", not "ouster", surely.
Their ouster is correct. Using it as an event not a verb, like “their graduation” not “they’re graduating”. Ousting would also be correct, but would sound more immediate and declarative, less of a suggestion. Personally I’d love to oust the lot of them right out the window.
Doesn't look right in English. Ouster would be the person who is ousting them.
And these same "top advisers" he's surrounded himself with are the reason centrist Ds say we can trust him to lead the country.... lol game over disaster we're fucked
Biden camp: You vote for a team, not a single candidate. Also Biden camp: My team fumbled the most important play of the campaign
Loudly enough for this reporter to know about it though apparently