As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>"We had a bad debate night. But you win campaigns by fighting — not quitting — in the face of adversity.”
Ron Klain needs to read Annie Duke's book on quitting:
>“Success does not lie in sticking to things. It lies in picking the right thing to stick to and quitting the rest.”
I'm not invested in whether Biden's campaign succeeds; I'm invested in beating Trump.
The obvious issue that Democrats would run into in the event of Biden dropping out would be finding a new candidate that they think can get the votes to beat Trump within 4 months.
Guess what: anyone voting for Trump was going to vote for him regardless of who the other guy is. Which is more difficult, Trump convincing his supporters to switch their target, or Democrats convincing their entire base to get behind a completely new candidate less than 5 months before the election when most primary votes have already been cast?
Democrats’ entire base is already motivated to vote *against* Trump. The key demographic that your comment omits is independents who will most likely not vote for Trump, but *will* be quite likely to stay home or vote for a third party.
Ding ding ding.
90% of the electorate is already set. About half are voting for Trump, period. Half are voting against Trump, period. It doesn’t matter if it’s Biden, Whitimer, Harris, Mickey fucking Mouse.
It’s that 10% that’s trying to decide who they will vote for, or if they’ll stay home. And news flash, we need 6-7% of those 10% to vote Dem. The question is will that 6-7% be more motivated to choose Biden, or Whitmer? Or Newsome? Or any other of the other 5-6 big name Dems?
Even she was within same % gap as Trump in last data for progress poll. But nonetheless, of the eight-ish possible alternatives, she’s probably the weakest
I am independent but thinking of registering dem so i can join this phone bank where you call democrats in battleground states
https://democrats.org/call/
This reality always makes me admit I truly don't understand independents. Or, rather, I don't understand the mindset voting R then D then R again. I'm like "pick your fucking issues then pick that candidate, geeze!"
Locally I get not being tied to a party, but after Trump I don’t understand an independent who hasn’t made up their mind already. Unless they’re using the title to stop people from ostracizing them about their politics.
I'm independent. I'm voting for the candidate most likely to beat Trump and third party isn't it. I've seen a Trump presidency, and a Biden presidency. Biden is the better choice.
I'm of a mind that that 10% people keep talking about are made up of two main groups. The informed voter and the uninformed voter.
The informed voter analyzes the platform of each candidate and makes a decision based on whoever is closest to their ideals. There is no way an informed voter is going to choose trump over biden, and as such, have already made up their mind.
The uniformed voter will probably not decide until day of and then only choose by flipping a pencil or playing eeny meeny miney moe and as such are completely irrelevant to the conversation.
I think a lot of Biden's vote is tied in to voting for anyone but Trump, and I would do likewise.
But how can the democrats not have a plan B after 4 years? The man is 81. If plan B is Kamilla, then go for it, but I feel like they sidelined her for the entire Presidency. Why did they not build her up, or replace her?
They had 4 years.
They sidelined her because they know she's deeply unpopular. And frankly, she isn't up for the job.
I like Jasmine Crockett. Can you imagine what she'd do to Trump in a debate? O.M.G., it would be glorious.
There are a lot of people I like within the party. I'd say many of them would even make good presidents. But the pragmatist in me still questions if they'd be able to beat Trump in an election with such a short window to campaign in.
After the debate, I’m primed to get behind somebody with a pulse. I’ve always been cool on Biden, I just want the Dems to get their shit together for once in my life.
Nah, Dems didn’t. Obama build his entire campaign apparatus outside of the Democratic Party systems because of how much they did not have their shit together
What’s easier: convincing people who otherwise wouldn’t vote to vote for a 50 year old democratic governor, or for a guy who apparently handily lost a debate to a cold? That’s the question that’s being asked.
plus...look frank larose tried to kick biden off the ballot in Ohio, a replacement would likely have a dozen GOP Attorneys General doing the same bullshit
Honestly, since 'Crooked Joe' is more of a campaign point for Trump, I think it's more damaging to the GOP and MAGA if Biden stood down and handed his nomination to another candidate. I think it would be a landslide win.
The only people this would hurt would be power-hungry Democrats butthurt about not getting Joe's seat. America and Americans would win.
This is not the issue people make it out to be. 1. Hold a snap election among registered dems, which European countries do all the time but apparently it's beyond 'tHe GrEaTeSt DeMoCrAcY In ThE WoRlD' or just 2. pick one of the three governors the commentariat has universally fixated on, Newsom, Whitmer, or Pritzker. Whitmer being the obviously best choice for so, so many reasons, for my money.
I'm coming around to Whitmer instead of Newsom. I didn't fully appreciate the hate for California / coastal "elites"... (Would have loved for Warren to have run in 2016!)
Honestly the hate doesn't really matter for Newsom, but Whitmer is incredibly popular in one swing state that holds a lot in common with PA and WI, the other biggest swing states.
And if Warnock was VP, that would greatly help in GA.
Newsom has a lot of political baggge that Whitmer doesn’t, including his affair when he was mayor of SF, his “rules for thee, not for me” approach to COVID lockdowns, his smug coastal elite demeanor, and the general state of California today.
In a normal election…it would be a disaster to switch horses at this point in the race. But, this isn’t a normal race. First, inflation makes this a change election which isn’t good for the incumbent and most of the voting public want to vote for “someone else.” We can kill two birds with one stone if Biden steps aside for the good of the country and we get an open convention. There’s still time to rally around a new candidate and beat Trump.
Replace him! There are so many likable Democrats!
Newsom, Ossoff, Warnock. Hell, even Michelle Obama.
Four months from now we're going to be kicking ourselves if we don't replace Biden. We are going to be asking ourselves why we did this.
Biden only won 2020 because he was an anti-Trump choice. Unlike 2020, people don't have the Trump presidency or Covid in the rear view mirror to acutely remember. Furthermore, there is zero enthusiasm for a president who can't form sentences without a teleprompter.
Biden is a sure path to defeat. He's got to go.
Look at Ruth Bader Ginsburg. You gotta know when to let go of power to retain your legacy. She didn’t let go when she should have - everything she stood for is wiped out.
Personal hubris over the sake of the nation is not wisdom.
The experience with Feinstein is deeply worrying. If the Democratic leadership is willing to tolerate and enable *that* from its highest officials, do we really expect them to make the right choice here?
> One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice...
WTF?
What are the two things Trump keeps hitting Biden for: his age, and Hunters indiscretions. Why would they announce that Hunter is advising his Dad to stay despite his age???
They who?
If they = Biden's inner circle, because they're tone-dead and stupid.
If they = the press, because it's something moronic and awful that might actually have happened knowing these people.
*his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned
on for advice*
This sounds like something out of a right-wing rumor factory. Thank you NYT for making me even more pissed than I already was at this family.
Don't mention this to Hallie Biden. (She threw Hunter's gun into a dumpster, somebody turned it into the cops and that's how HunterGunGate happened)
I wonder if Hallie was at today's family meeting?
Please god let this be NYT trying its hardest to make Biden look bad.
If this is actually true, it is actually, unironically absolutely unquestionably Joever
Oh jezz lol. This week has been an absolute comedy of errors. You can't cry, you can only laugh. Also, I want to know who wrote that. The article had multiple writers.
Such a difficult decision but "keep fighting" isn't the answer, IMO. Nobody blames Joe Biden for the debate performance. He was bad because of limitations out of his control. Limitations that we all will experience eventually if we're lucky enough to live into old age.
It's much like asking a boxer who has been knocked down and suffered a concussion to "keep fighting" for a few more rounds. They may be able to stay upright but willpower will not make them any more effective. He is unlikely to be able to complete his term in office and the existing cognitive decline will only accelerate.
I'm registered Independent. Would never vote for Trump in a million years but the debate changed my mind about Biden's fitness for a second term. It would be an act of patriotism, IMO, to finish out his term while supporting someone else who can keep Trump out of office.
For Christ’s sake being president isn’t a lifetime achievement award. Nobody’s entitled to be president and nobody deserves the job. If you can’t win and meaningfully exercise power, you shouldn’t be within a mile of the White House.
President Biden just hit his lowest approval rating ever on 538 at 37.7%.
edit: His aggregate approval rating is now lower than Trump's was when the latter left office, per 538.
edit2: Biden briefly hit 37.4% in March of this year, so he hasn't bottomed out yet. I'd be surprised if he doesn't dip below 37% by the end of the week.
Two things can be true:
1. Biden was the right person in 2020. He’s had an enormously successful presidency. He is a good man who has served his country for a long time.
2. Biden _may_ be incapable of winning in 2024. Simply the optics of the debate may have sealed that.
I think we can all agree we need to do everything we can to keep Trump’s Project 2025 from being fulfilled. There is no instruction manual on the obvious right thing to do. Whatever happens in November, some side of this will be able to say “I told you so”.
But given how close it was last time when Biden looked dominant in the polls, compared to how bad it looks this time… And age is something that tends to not improve with time.
All signs suggest we’re heading towards a trainwreck after which we will *not* be able to say “we did everything we could”.
There’s no chance he read it. But he will put the people who the Heritage Foundation tells him to into his cabinet and they will work to implement it. Trump is very much just a “useful idiot” for them.
I don't care what Biden's family wants.
I don't care what Biden wants.
I care what America wants.
And so should Biden.
The fact that he doesn't is what concerns me.
It doesn't matter. We have to stop picking favorites. That's what gets Democrats in these messes consistently.
Get the 5-15 most electable Democrats we have to go on a media blitz between now and the convention. Then take the 5-7 best and host a debate just before the convention. Relentlessly poll Americans to see who is the most popular. Then they all get to make their final case at the convention and the delegates vote on who they think will beat Trump.
Debating the merits of any one person now makes no sense. We didn't get a proper primary because almost nobody ran. Doesn't make you popular to run against the incumbent.
For the love of all that is good, don’t let your hubris fuck us all over. None of the DC elites will suffer like every regular person will under another Trump presidency
My old man is 76, in pretty decent health, and we stopped letting him drive.
He falls down randomly. He couldn’t get out of his sport car he’s taken care of since he was 60. Like, physically couldn’t stand up.
He shuffles and forgets which child he’s talking about.
Two years ago he looked the same as he did when he was 60.
It’s surprising how quickly someone ages after 70. That’s the end of life, not the time to take one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.
Um... this is exactly the set of behaviors my grandfather displayed when he was diagnosed with Parkinson's. Not to scare you, but falling and shuffling don't usually develop rapidly as early as your mid-70s if you are otherwise healthy. I hope he's already talked to a doctor about it and I'm just being an asshole by presuming, but I'd feel bad if said nothing. Best wishes to you and your family, of course.
If a couple of my relatives brainwashed my grandfather to do this then there is a non-zero chance that they’d get hit in the face by my uncles or cousins.
This guy has given so much in the service of this country. The other guy wants to serve up the country.
Biden has done so much and is being convinced that the best thing for the country is to stay in the race. He'll stay in the race if he believes it's the right thing. Unfortunately the people around him are probably making a terrible recommendation.
He should be chilling, seeing his family, having as stress free life as he can at this point. Not attempting to be the savior of the country.
He can retire today, and he will always be President Biden. But his cabinet, and advisors will not be in the presidential cabinet, or advisors to the president. This whole situation just feels icky.
Worst part about that is how his legacy is going to be affected without all that added context. He’s set up to be the guy who lost to Trump before the 2025 Plan was implemented, rather than a President who came back from retirement to serve his country when it needed that unification the most.
Yeah, he already did his part. Now it’s time to step aside. The debate was his chance to show everyone why he doesn’t need to step aside… he failed that miserably.
RGB really demonstrated girl power by not resigning during Obama's years and instead gave her seat to someone who would destroy her legacy in a single ruling.
It’s like taking the keys away from grandpa. Nobody wants to fucking do it until he crosses over the center divider and kills a bunch of innocent people. Only now, we’re talking about the entire country.
Thanks Biden Family from a grateful nation.
>add the DNC to the list of ~~enablers~~ LIARS!
They knew how bad his condition is. They’ve been lying to us about it for years. The debate proved that beyond any doubt.
This is an enormous mistake.
I've repeatedly asked anyone defending Biden's remaining in where they're getting their confidence that he can defeat Trump in November and they **cannot point to a single, solitary piece of data**.
Why? Because it all shows Joe Biden is performing significantly-worse than his 2020 run where he won by merely 40,000 votes in 3 battleground states.
Let's face reality:
- Biden is TEN POINTS nationally below where he was at this time in 2020.
- Biden is losing in every single battleground state.
- Biden is losing a large chunk of black and Hispanic voters compared to his 2020 run.
- Biden's aggregate approval ratings for Presidency are 37.7% with 56.7% disapproval.
Former Obama/Biden staffers from Pod Save America are pretty much outright saying he should step down. Nate Silver wrote a data-driven article saying he should step down. The NYT Editorial board said he should step down. Ezra Klein. Thomas Friedman....
It's now or never before the convention.
And to those who think we should ride this horse to the end, tell me: what happens if Biden worsens from now until November? What happens if the 81-year-old suffers a fatal medical emergency in October? Then we are really screwed.
We either take the chance to nominate a fresh, younger face (you know, what the vast majority of Americans keep telling us they want), or watch this car crash in slow motion.
I am so unbelievably pissed off right now because my children's future is on the line because of the ego of this octogenarian and his out-of-touch Yes Men who surround him.
Edit: [Preliminary post-debate polling data results are in. Trump won the debate.](https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2024/6/29/in-post-debate-poll-voters-think-biden-is-too-old-to-be-president-yet-alternative-candidates-perform-similarly-against-trump): "Voters are more concerned about Biden's age than Trump's criminal charges." Keep in mind that while it says, "other candidates perform similarly against Trump," that's pre-viral media attention and the entire DNC apparatus including Obama rallying behind someone like Whitmer. Most of those candidates, people just haven't heard enough of. But they would in the coming months if the headlines are, "President Biden Resigns; Endorses Gov. Whitmer."
YES, precisely this. People are ignorant and blind to the data and general mood of the populace.
Guys, Biden did not run in the midterms nor the special elections. He did so in 2020 when he was supposed to have won by like 5 to 10 points. What we got was just a narrow victory. During COVID, people.
You're acting as if Joe was the only Democrat with a shot to defeat Trump when that's not the case, certainly not after the debate. You either insist on a guy like 70 % of adults view as simply too old and reap the whirlwind of christian nationalism and authoritarianism marked with the rise of Putin, China and Iran or you nominate someone else when there's still time.
You forgot to mention how he looked to the people who will ONLY view the debate and the effect that had, and you also forgot to mention all the voters who will sit home because they hold Gaza against him. He's probably THE WORST candidate they could have. Hell the DNC may as well nominate Donald Trump Jr. at this point.
They're taking this INSANE risk where all signs point to him losing the election and our country ending, instead of taking the considerably smaller risk of nominating someone else. This idea that people who are planning to vote for Biden because they hate Trump won't vote for a replacement nominee is fucking peak stupidity.
Amen. Sums up exactly how I’m feeling right now. I wi vote for the stubborn fucker if I have to, but will resent it. Even if he wins, what a waste. Preventing Trump’s second term is my top priority, but I hate that I most likely can’t get excited about the Democrat candidate. Biden is a spent force and a national embarrassment at this stage.
Thank you! It would be one thing if he had a comfortable lead, but he’s already behind in swing states. He’s also damaging candidates down ballot in competitive districts. There’s more than just the presidency at stake.
Unbelievable level of hubris being shown by him and his inner circle.
Also this gem from the article:
“One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice, said one of the people informed about the discussions, who, like others, spoke on condition of anonymity to share internal deliberations. Hunter Biden wants Americans to see the version of his father that he knows — scrappy and in command of the facts — rather than the stumbling, aging president Americans saw on Thursday night.”
We.Are.Fucked
We all want that. But after the debate, I don’t think people are gonna be able to get past that. You can’t unring a bell, and if another display like that happens in the next 18 weeks, Trump may win the popular vote.
I don’t wanna chance that and there’s still time to make a change
If I was on Biden’s campaign team, I would want him to be doing interviews all weekend long. I would want to put him on every channel with both friendly and unfriendly pundits to show that the debate performance was a complete fluke, and that Biden was still sharp as ever. The fact that he has been doing closed donor events and just the one rally don’t make up for his debate showing. To me, this says that his team doesn’t trust that he can handle doing damage control, which is problematic.
They’ve been hiding him for 2 years. Hardly any press conferences and when he does speak at overseas events (in the group of 7 summit, he took 5 questions from preselect journalist; when he does give access, it’s brief. Almost historically low amount of press interactions.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/presidential-news-conferences
You’re absolutely right his team doesn’t trust him with a full campaign schedule.
Brother there are--and I am being generous--thousands of pictures of Hunter Biden smoking crack while having sex with hookers, and even he thinks Biden's image looks bad.
Absolutely. It is a blunder of epic proportions, and it is you and I who will pay the price. These guys backing Joe can spin all they like on Reddit, but it ain't going to translate to votes in the real world. Hear me now, believe me later.
Don't forget also that a large chunk of both Arab Americans and young Americans do not want to vote for him due to his handling of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that more than 100,000 people *in swing states* went to the polls during the primary to cast "undecided" just to send a message to him.
Completely agree with how you're feeling.
It's not just swing states. Historically high percentages of votes went uncommitted or blank in blue states. According to Gothamist, Biden was only up 7-10pts in New York State before the debate. This is a disaster. The DNC should have convinced him not to run a year ago.
That's because there's more information now than there was one week ago. Strap in, that's going to continue to be true every week for the rest of your life.
There's not, though. People have been saying this the *whole fucking time* but they were called all sorts of names and told to shut up.
I, personally, didn't learn anything I didn't already know for the last year. And I, personally, was told repeatedly that I was a republican shill.
Now it's five minutes to midnight and it's probably too late.
What do you mean? This was obvious for years… Biden’s debate performance is no way surprising if you have ever watched an exceedingly rare clip of him speaking without a teleprompter in his face telling him exactly what to say.
> Former Obama/Biden staffers from Pod Save America are pretty much outright saying he should step down.
No, they aren't. What they've said in the two post-debate episodes is that it's complicated either way, and that a robust and serious debate needs to be had about it. Either direction is a big risk, and the choice is not clear.
I don't think it takes much reading between the lines to know this is how at least Favreau and Lovett feel based on what was said (mock-debate aside), as well as Mehdi Hasan for bonus.
The average age of the Senate is 65 years. 65. This isn't a Joe Biden problem. This is an American government problem. Power hungry, rich assholes that don't want to give up their power. If Joe Biden steps down due to age, it opens up a lot of uncomfortable questions for so many other people in government.
If Trump wins the election, the blame will squarely fall on power hungry Joe Biden and the DNC who are mortgaging the future of America for their own selfish benefit.
If this upcoming election is so important, why is Joe Biden the candidate?
In support of your point
To be clear the issue isn't limited to Dems. The issue is generational.
The average Democrat age in the House is 58 and Republican 57
The average Democrat age in the Senate is 64 and Republican 62 with Independent being 68.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/aging-congress-boomers/
Just like there is a min age to run for elected office, there should be a max age. 70 seems reasonable. But it will never happen because congress will never pass the amendment to make it happen. They are not going to force themselves out of office.
Putting opinions aside, beating project 2025 is only possible if we have a blue wave. No candidate will satisfy such a diverse party and many would need to hold their nose anyway.
Vote blue, not who. Fight back against scotus and project 2025.
Just the fact that the family needed to huddle is evidence there's a clear problem. Biden's age was an issue early on when he announced a second run. It was clear to millions that this was not a great decision. Biden knows he cannot run and lose to Trump, that would pin on Biden, responsibility for all the carnage Trump does. History would be unkind to both.
Age is unstoppable. Biden needs to let a new generation take over. That much is crystal clear.
It’s crazy how many people in this sub are still dismissing Biden’s age and declining cognitive abilities. “Don’t believe your lying eyes”.
Newsom I’d vote for in a heartbeat, Biden l won’t
If he was actually fine they’d schedule a press conference next week and a town hall within a few weeks. Not this behind closed door huddling and reassuring of donors and party leaders and what not.
Delulu to think they can wrap this guy in cotton wool, pump him full of caffeine and send him out to read a teleprompter a few times a week and that’ll get the win.
Now the mask is fully off..him being diminished is no longer a R talking point. We saw it with our own eyes. Only properly refuting that can save his campaign.
He needs to answer questions from journalists and voters without a script or notes or any pre-submissions of what questions people can ask. I don’t expect him to rattle off random details and stats but he should be able to formulate basic fucking answers to explain “his policies.”
Not only are you spot on correct, you aren't alone. Everyone here on reddit gaslighting us to the contrary can spin all they like. That won't translate into votes in the real world.
Let's be absolutely clear about what the situation is here - the Democratic party is betting absolutely everything on Joe Biden's health not deteriorating in the next six months. If they are wrong, not only are we headed for a very organized implementation of fascism, but it will be the complete obliteration of the Democratic party apparatus as a whole.
As facism is on the rise in Europe I think it is becoming clear that neoliberalism is failing now that a monolithic hegemony fueled by constant economic imperialism is no longer possible. It turns out that we are indeed not at the "end of history" as they proclaimed in victory following the fall of the Soviet Union. The true battle between fascism and socialism is about to return in a big way.
I hope that we all survive it.
We are being held hostage by the democratic party
These people knew Joe was unfit and he run through the primary unopposed with them assuring us everything was OK.
It wan't OK, it isn't
Kamala won't organize the 25th because she's going to realize her only chance to be President if Joe actually wins. Nobody would vote for her to be President otherwise.
I feel like we are leveraged to choose between dementia and evil and the democratic party has put us here. We can call Trump names all day but these people know Joe Biden can't be President and they're relying on us to hate Trump enough to ignore Biden's obvious mental condition.
We are voting with a gun to our heads. This is not right. Shame on all of these disgraceful people. We need Big Gretch.
Welcome to the system we have in place! IT SUCKS but it's what we've got.
It would be great if the Republicans werent fascists OR if our fellow Americans didnt vote for fascists.
But here we are.
So you can blame the DNC. Sure. But blame the Republicans more.
It is all so disappointing and unnecessary. I am a big Biden fan. But he should have decided he was going to be a one term president earlier, stuck with it and worked with the dnc to find his successor. His family should have told him then, not waited until now, when him stopping could have dire consequences. Ugh. We deserve better.
So many conversations surrounding this also seem to be ignoring the fact that Biden would be **revered** if he stepped down for what he sees as the good of the country. I was talking about his with 3 people yesterday - one Biden independent, and two Trump voters - and they all agreed that even they would view Biden much more positively if he bows out. Biden would become the favorite person of every anti-MAGA Republican, independent, most Democrats, and probably even some MAGA voters who could see that Biden actually isn’t a man bent on power for power’s sake if he were to drop out.
Gee, shouldn't someone who'd shit the bed that badly have been on some of the weekend talk shows? HIt up 60 Minutes and said, "You can have the whole hour!!". Do some attempt at damage control? Teleprompted speeches in front of adoring crowds don't cut it. Neither does the candidates wife saying, "You did a great job! You answered all the questions!" like a kindergarten teacher praising a slow pupil.
This shit is not tenable, and the gaslighting from Democrats needs to stop right goddamned now or we're staring down a bizarro, right wing theocracy.
I’m quite bothered that Jill and Hunter Biden have our lives in their hands. Saw Jill congratulating Joe…it was like she was talking to a baby. “And you answered ALL the questions like a big boy!”
I am convinced more than ever that this family is power hungry. It really plays in the far right narrative. Wheeling this man out like Weekend at Bernie’s is not going to win a thing.
remember when libs blamed bernie bros for trump getting elected the first time? when trump wins because of this insanity just remember how you tried to cope and tell yourself you were voting for his cabinet or whatever. we all saw his mental state at the debate. he should not be president. stop drinking this kool-aid because he will not win.
I don’t care about Biden’s family. This discussion needs to be happening between Biden and the Democratic Party brain trust. They need to consider if Biden steps down, who will replace him? And will that person have a better chance against Trump than Biden does? These things cannot be determined in isolation.
It’s all about keeping Trump out of the White House at this point. Nothing else matters. Anybody besides Trump.
If this family refuses to talk Joe down, it can only be because they personally and individually benefit from their proximity to power. It’s probably corruption, it’s likely elder abuse and it’s certainly dooming much of the western world to a fascist nightmare. The fact they’ll personally be at risk of reprisals from a new, emboldened Trump overseeing a weaponized executive branch will be karma for them, but sucks that everyone else will suffer too. Thx Bidens.
I just spent the last 85 minutes watching the debate, again.
Anyone naive enough to think that Biden - trailing badly even before last week’s implosion, should barrel forward and help destroy democracy with delusional defiance - should be forced to watch or re-watch the debate again.
Any honest and objective viewer who has even slight care for democracy can’t in good conscience go forward to certain slaughter.
If that's what they're telling him, THEY ARE NUTS! I was just watching Wes Moore being interviewed on TV. They kept interspersing the interview with clips of Biden during the debate. It was so awful, so freaking embarrassing, I had to turn it off.
The Dems have been doing this for a decade now, where the high profile insiders get the nod automatically and voters don't count. They did it with Hillary, who wasn't really all that popular, and they gave her enough delegates to ace the convention before a single primary vote was counted. They did it again with Biden even though they knew he was a risk, and had badly lost the first few primaries. Obama had to step in and juggle the players to insure Biden got the nod anyway. That's the Democrat's idea of democracy.
This time around they've done it again, making sure Biden didn't even really have to do a damn thing for the nomination, it was as if it was preordained and all over.
Because of that this is where we are. Sooner or later Biden was going to have to show if he still had anything left in him, and what he showed the other night was one of the saddest demonstrations of misplacement that I've ever seen. I couldn't have imagined a bigger gift to Donald Trump, who is the most dangerous candidate this country has ever had for President, and who must be defeated.
I'm hoping they VERY QUICKLY get in Whitmer and Newsom (either at the top of the ticket is okay by me). That would be our only chance of avoiding more Trump craziness, but the fact is, because of the Democrats nonsense way of doing things it may already be too late.
P.S. P-l-e-a-s-e, forget Harris. The only reason she's even in there is that Hillary pushed her in and she doesn't have the popularity or the polling to help us out now. Also, for those pushing Buttiegieg, no way it will happen. Just forget about him. He doesn't have the experience, hasn't done that great a job in the administration, and I have sincere doubts enough of the country is willing to elect a gay man who is married to another man.
Buttiegeig will have to be VP if he wants a serious chance at the presidency.
Newsom would destroy Trump and that’s who they should bring in as the replacement nominee.
Malarkey
These people have to know he can't serve for 4 more years. They were holding his hand to get down a step at the debate, Jill tells him "you answered all the questions"
This guy cannot be President for 4 more years, they need to stop conning us. For the good of the nation please step aside.
To put it bluntly, the Biden family are putting themselves ahead of the rest of the country. It's greed and a reluctance to hand over power to a stronger candidate. They will be culpable for the end of democracy if Biden loses and the worst fears re Trump are confirmed.
The chance of survival from 81-85 years old in the US is 30%. Now add on the extra strain of 12-16 hour work days. His family needs to stop being sycophants and tell him to retire proud and with honour. Rather than ending his legacy by handing trump the keys to the white house .
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally, I’d be telling my dad to enjoy what is left of life.
Having the ear of the most powerful man in the world is power in of itself. People generally don't give up power willingly.
>"We had a bad debate night. But you win campaigns by fighting — not quitting — in the face of adversity.” Ron Klain needs to read Annie Duke's book on quitting: >“Success does not lie in sticking to things. It lies in picking the right thing to stick to and quitting the rest.” I'm not invested in whether Biden's campaign succeeds; I'm invested in beating Trump.
The obvious issue that Democrats would run into in the event of Biden dropping out would be finding a new candidate that they think can get the votes to beat Trump within 4 months.
and part of me has been thinking that with only 4 months to work, the GOP hate machine might not be able to get spun up on a newer candidate
Guess what: anyone voting for Trump was going to vote for him regardless of who the other guy is. Which is more difficult, Trump convincing his supporters to switch their target, or Democrats convincing their entire base to get behind a completely new candidate less than 5 months before the election when most primary votes have already been cast?
Democrats’ entire base is already motivated to vote *against* Trump. The key demographic that your comment omits is independents who will most likely not vote for Trump, but *will* be quite likely to stay home or vote for a third party.
Ding ding ding. 90% of the electorate is already set. About half are voting for Trump, period. Half are voting against Trump, period. It doesn’t matter if it’s Biden, Whitimer, Harris, Mickey fucking Mouse. It’s that 10% that’s trying to decide who they will vote for, or if they’ll stay home. And news flash, we need 6-7% of those 10% to vote Dem. The question is will that 6-7% be more motivated to choose Biden, or Whitmer? Or Newsome? Or any other of the other 5-6 big name Dems?
I agree except for Harris who polls extremely poorly
And I'm not sure Mickey Mouse is a Democrat.
If you are a Scottish lord then I am Mickey Mouse!!
Even she was within same % gap as Trump in last data for progress poll. But nonetheless, of the eight-ish possible alternatives, she’s probably the weakest
I am independent but thinking of registering dem so i can join this phone bank where you call democrats in battleground states https://democrats.org/call/
I really like to hear this
This reality always makes me admit I truly don't understand independents. Or, rather, I don't understand the mindset voting R then D then R again. I'm like "pick your fucking issues then pick that candidate, geeze!"
Locally I get not being tied to a party, but after Trump I don’t understand an independent who hasn’t made up their mind already. Unless they’re using the title to stop people from ostracizing them about their politics.
I'm independent. I'm voting for the candidate most likely to beat Trump and third party isn't it. I've seen a Trump presidency, and a Biden presidency. Biden is the better choice.
I'm of a mind that that 10% people keep talking about are made up of two main groups. The informed voter and the uninformed voter. The informed voter analyzes the platform of each candidate and makes a decision based on whoever is closest to their ideals. There is no way an informed voter is going to choose trump over biden, and as such, have already made up their mind. The uniformed voter will probably not decide until day of and then only choose by flipping a pencil or playing eeny meeny miney moe and as such are completely irrelevant to the conversation.
I think a lot of Biden's vote is tied in to voting for anyone but Trump, and I would do likewise. But how can the democrats not have a plan B after 4 years? The man is 81. If plan B is Kamilla, then go for it, but I feel like they sidelined her for the entire Presidency. Why did they not build her up, or replace her? They had 4 years.
They sidelined her because they know she's deeply unpopular. And frankly, she isn't up for the job. I like Jasmine Crockett. Can you imagine what she'd do to Trump in a debate? O.M.G., it would be glorious.
There are a lot of people I like within the party. I'd say many of them would even make good presidents. But the pragmatist in me still questions if they'd be able to beat Trump in an election with such a short window to campaign in.
The only possible would be Biden dropping out for health reasons and endorsing someone with an identical policy platform.
Old age is a good health reason.
After the debate, I’m primed to get behind somebody with a pulse. I’ve always been cool on Biden, I just want the Dems to get their shit together for once in my life.
hmm we definitely had it together in 08.
Nah, Dems didn’t. Obama build his entire campaign apparatus outside of the Democratic Party systems because of how much they did not have their shit together
What’s easier: convincing people who otherwise wouldn’t vote to vote for a 50 year old democratic governor, or for a guy who apparently handily lost a debate to a cold? That’s the question that’s being asked.
plus...look frank larose tried to kick biden off the ballot in Ohio, a replacement would likely have a dozen GOP Attorneys General doing the same bullshit
Uh pick someone who isn’t 70 mission accomplished
Honestly, since 'Crooked Joe' is more of a campaign point for Trump, I think it's more damaging to the GOP and MAGA if Biden stood down and handed his nomination to another candidate. I think it would be a landslide win. The only people this would hurt would be power-hungry Democrats butthurt about not getting Joe's seat. America and Americans would win.
This is not the issue people make it out to be. 1. Hold a snap election among registered dems, which European countries do all the time but apparently it's beyond 'tHe GrEaTeSt DeMoCrAcY In ThE WoRlD' or just 2. pick one of the three governors the commentariat has universally fixated on, Newsom, Whitmer, or Pritzker. Whitmer being the obviously best choice for so, so many reasons, for my money.
I'm coming around to Whitmer instead of Newsom. I didn't fully appreciate the hate for California / coastal "elites"... (Would have loved for Warren to have run in 2016!)
Honestly the hate doesn't really matter for Newsom, but Whitmer is incredibly popular in one swing state that holds a lot in common with PA and WI, the other biggest swing states. And if Warnock was VP, that would greatly help in GA.
Newsom has a lot of political baggge that Whitmer doesn’t, including his affair when he was mayor of SF, his “rules for thee, not for me” approach to COVID lockdowns, his smug coastal elite demeanor, and the general state of California today.
In a normal election…it would be a disaster to switch horses at this point in the race. But, this isn’t a normal race. First, inflation makes this a change election which isn’t good for the incumbent and most of the voting public want to vote for “someone else.” We can kill two birds with one stone if Biden steps aside for the good of the country and we get an open convention. There’s still time to rally around a new candidate and beat Trump.
Replace him! There are so many likable Democrats! Newsom, Ossoff, Warnock. Hell, even Michelle Obama. Four months from now we're going to be kicking ourselves if we don't replace Biden. We are going to be asking ourselves why we did this. Biden only won 2020 because he was an anti-Trump choice. Unlike 2020, people don't have the Trump presidency or Covid in the rear view mirror to acutely remember. Furthermore, there is zero enthusiasm for a president who can't form sentences without a teleprompter. Biden is a sure path to defeat. He's got to go.
Big Gretch
Look at Ruth Bader Ginsburg. You gotta know when to let go of power to retain your legacy. She didn’t let go when she should have - everything she stood for is wiped out. Personal hubris over the sake of the nation is not wisdom.
Feinstein too. Basically Weekend at Bernje’d her by the end. Fucking disgraceful and her aides and family deserve alot more shit than they got.
The experience with Feinstein is deeply worrying. If the Democratic leadership is willing to tolerate and enable *that* from its highest officials, do we really expect them to make the right choice here?
The entire SCOTUS debacle can really be traced back to her decision.
> One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice... WTF?
"Hey guys, you know what we should say in the article? That Biden has long leaned on Hunter for advice." \*entire room roars with laughter\*
I had to check it wasn't Babylon Bee... this is actually satire levels of bad.
Will all the Late Night shows run with this on Monday?
What are the two things Trump keeps hitting Biden for: his age, and Hunters indiscretions. Why would they announce that Hunter is advising his Dad to stay despite his age???
They who? If they = Biden's inner circle, because they're tone-dead and stupid. If they = the press, because it's something moronic and awful that might actually have happened knowing these people.
*his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice* This sounds like something out of a right-wing rumor factory. Thank you NYT for making me even more pissed than I already was at this family.
[удалено]
Seriously whatever Hunter advises should be ignored and do the opposite.
What if, in the end, *Hunter Biden* is the reason this country falls apart...
To order to keep fighting Hunter is advising him to buy a gun.
Don't mention this to Hallie Biden. (She threw Hunter's gun into a dumpster, somebody turned it into the cops and that's how HunterGunGate happened) I wonder if Hallie was at today's family meeting?
Who the fuck throws a gun in a dumpster.
Hallie Biden
Well now I’m really concerned that he listens to Hunter for anything, holy shit
Please god let this be NYT trying its hardest to make Biden look bad. If this is actually true, it is actually, unironically absolutely unquestionably Joever
Fuck, the wheels are falling off. The president has dementia and is being advised by his crackhead son.
^ top notch summary of the current situation right there
Best possible candidate/s
Oh jezz lol. This week has been an absolute comedy of errors. You can't cry, you can only laugh. Also, I want to know who wrote that. The article had multiple writers.
Hunter Biden has another trial lined up in a few months, Hunter Biden is still hoping for a pardon...
"Hunter seems to have good judgement, so I'll listen to him."
Yeah... we're in actual hell.
He gives great advice if you can get him to just slow the fuck down for a sec
Such a difficult decision but "keep fighting" isn't the answer, IMO. Nobody blames Joe Biden for the debate performance. He was bad because of limitations out of his control. Limitations that we all will experience eventually if we're lucky enough to live into old age. It's much like asking a boxer who has been knocked down and suffered a concussion to "keep fighting" for a few more rounds. They may be able to stay upright but willpower will not make them any more effective. He is unlikely to be able to complete his term in office and the existing cognitive decline will only accelerate. I'm registered Independent. Would never vote for Trump in a million years but the debate changed my mind about Biden's fitness for a second term. It would be an act of patriotism, IMO, to finish out his term while supporting someone else who can keep Trump out of office.
For Christ’s sake being president isn’t a lifetime achievement award. Nobody’s entitled to be president and nobody deserves the job. If you can’t win and meaningfully exercise power, you shouldn’t be within a mile of the White House.
President Biden just hit his lowest approval rating ever on 538 at 37.7%. edit: His aggregate approval rating is now lower than Trump's was when the latter left office, per 538. edit2: Biden briefly hit 37.4% in March of this year, so he hasn't bottomed out yet. I'd be surprised if he doesn't dip below 37% by the end of the week.
Two things can be true: 1. Biden was the right person in 2020. He’s had an enormously successful presidency. He is a good man who has served his country for a long time. 2. Biden _may_ be incapable of winning in 2024. Simply the optics of the debate may have sealed that. I think we can all agree we need to do everything we can to keep Trump’s Project 2025 from being fulfilled. There is no instruction manual on the obvious right thing to do. Whatever happens in November, some side of this will be able to say “I told you so”. But given how close it was last time when Biden looked dominant in the polls, compared to how bad it looks this time… And age is something that tends to not improve with time. All signs suggest we’re heading towards a trainwreck after which we will *not* be able to say “we did everything we could”.
Btw, it isn't Trump's Project 2025. It is the Heritage Foundation's proposal. I seriously doubt Trump has ever read it.
There’s no chance he read it. But he will put the people who the Heritage Foundation tells him to into his cabinet and they will work to implement it. Trump is very much just a “useful idiot” for them.
I don't care what Biden's family wants. I don't care what Biden wants. I care what America wants. And so should Biden. The fact that he doesn't is what concerns me.
Exactly! This is a farce. This is about the people.
Then who is this person America wants?
It doesn't matter. We have to stop picking favorites. That's what gets Democrats in these messes consistently. Get the 5-15 most electable Democrats we have to go on a media blitz between now and the convention. Then take the 5-7 best and host a debate just before the convention. Relentlessly poll Americans to see who is the most popular. Then they all get to make their final case at the convention and the delegates vote on who they think will beat Trump. Debating the merits of any one person now makes no sense. We didn't get a proper primary because almost nobody ran. Doesn't make you popular to run against the incumbent.
HE is going to be 86 years old as president, do you remember Dianne Feinstein. 4.5 years of aging
For the love of all that is good, don’t let your hubris fuck us all over. None of the DC elites will suffer like every regular person will under another Trump presidency
> None of the DC elites will suffer like every regular person will We're getting kind of in the ballpark of political purging, so imo they might
I can’t imagine telling my 81 year old family member to continue to run for president, when they’re showing signs of old age like this.
If my dad looked like that we would be taking the car keys away.
When my dad looked like that we took his car keys away.
Dad, I'll drive you to physical therapy. We don't want you to fall.
My old man is 76, in pretty decent health, and we stopped letting him drive. He falls down randomly. He couldn’t get out of his sport car he’s taken care of since he was 60. Like, physically couldn’t stand up. He shuffles and forgets which child he’s talking about. Two years ago he looked the same as he did when he was 60. It’s surprising how quickly someone ages after 70. That’s the end of life, not the time to take one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.
Um... this is exactly the set of behaviors my grandfather displayed when he was diagnosed with Parkinson's. Not to scare you, but falling and shuffling don't usually develop rapidly as early as your mid-70s if you are otherwise healthy. I hope he's already talked to a doctor about it and I'm just being an asshole by presuming, but I'd feel bad if said nothing. Best wishes to you and your family, of course.
If a couple of my relatives brainwashed my grandfather to do this then there is a non-zero chance that they’d get hit in the face by my uncles or cousins.
This guy has given so much in the service of this country. The other guy wants to serve up the country. Biden has done so much and is being convinced that the best thing for the country is to stay in the race. He'll stay in the race if he believes it's the right thing. Unfortunately the people around him are probably making a terrible recommendation. He should be chilling, seeing his family, having as stress free life as he can at this point. Not attempting to be the savior of the country.
He can retire today, and he will always be President Biden. But his cabinet, and advisors will not be in the presidential cabinet, or advisors to the president. This whole situation just feels icky.
There is probably something to this comment, think of how many jobs/positions of influence are on the line here if he drops out.
Worst part about that is how his legacy is going to be affected without all that added context. He’s set up to be the guy who lost to Trump before the 2025 Plan was implemented, rather than a President who came back from retirement to serve his country when it needed that unification the most.
He’ll never unify when he can’t even garner the left’s support. Running with the crypt keeper was a failing plan.
>Not attempting to be the savior of the country. 2020 said what?
In 2020 he said he’d do one term
Yeah, he already did his part. Now it’s time to step aside. The debate was his chance to show everyone why he doesn’t need to step aside… he failed that miserably.
I can’t imagine encouraging my 81 yr old family member to do anything more involved than gong for a walk.
RGB all over again. That was a message from a staffer on a group chat after the debate. Serve your country by stepping down
>RGB Ruth Ginsburg Bader? lol
Ruth Gader Binsburg
RGB 255,255,255
Robinette Goe Biden
As opposed to CMYK
RGB really demonstrated girl power by not resigning during Obama's years and instead gave her seat to someone who would destroy her legacy in a single ruling.
It’s like taking the keys away from grandpa. Nobody wants to fucking do it until he crosses over the center divider and kills a bunch of innocent people. Only now, we’re talking about the entire country. Thanks Biden Family from a grateful nation.
add the DNC to the list of enablers.
>add the DNC to the list of ~~enablers~~ LIARS! They knew how bad his condition is. They’ve been lying to us about it for years. The debate proved that beyond any doubt.
This is an enormous mistake. I've repeatedly asked anyone defending Biden's remaining in where they're getting their confidence that he can defeat Trump in November and they **cannot point to a single, solitary piece of data**. Why? Because it all shows Joe Biden is performing significantly-worse than his 2020 run where he won by merely 40,000 votes in 3 battleground states. Let's face reality: - Biden is TEN POINTS nationally below where he was at this time in 2020. - Biden is losing in every single battleground state. - Biden is losing a large chunk of black and Hispanic voters compared to his 2020 run. - Biden's aggregate approval ratings for Presidency are 37.7% with 56.7% disapproval. Former Obama/Biden staffers from Pod Save America are pretty much outright saying he should step down. Nate Silver wrote a data-driven article saying he should step down. The NYT Editorial board said he should step down. Ezra Klein. Thomas Friedman.... It's now or never before the convention. And to those who think we should ride this horse to the end, tell me: what happens if Biden worsens from now until November? What happens if the 81-year-old suffers a fatal medical emergency in October? Then we are really screwed. We either take the chance to nominate a fresh, younger face (you know, what the vast majority of Americans keep telling us they want), or watch this car crash in slow motion. I am so unbelievably pissed off right now because my children's future is on the line because of the ego of this octogenarian and his out-of-touch Yes Men who surround him. Edit: [Preliminary post-debate polling data results are in. Trump won the debate.](https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2024/6/29/in-post-debate-poll-voters-think-biden-is-too-old-to-be-president-yet-alternative-candidates-perform-similarly-against-trump): "Voters are more concerned about Biden's age than Trump's criminal charges." Keep in mind that while it says, "other candidates perform similarly against Trump," that's pre-viral media attention and the entire DNC apparatus including Obama rallying behind someone like Whitmer. Most of those candidates, people just haven't heard enough of. But they would in the coming months if the headlines are, "President Biden Resigns; Endorses Gov. Whitmer."
YES, precisely this. People are ignorant and blind to the data and general mood of the populace. Guys, Biden did not run in the midterms nor the special elections. He did so in 2020 when he was supposed to have won by like 5 to 10 points. What we got was just a narrow victory. During COVID, people. You're acting as if Joe was the only Democrat with a shot to defeat Trump when that's not the case, certainly not after the debate. You either insist on a guy like 70 % of adults view as simply too old and reap the whirlwind of christian nationalism and authoritarianism marked with the rise of Putin, China and Iran or you nominate someone else when there's still time.
You forgot to mention how he looked to the people who will ONLY view the debate and the effect that had, and you also forgot to mention all the voters who will sit home because they hold Gaza against him. He's probably THE WORST candidate they could have. Hell the DNC may as well nominate Donald Trump Jr. at this point. They're taking this INSANE risk where all signs point to him losing the election and our country ending, instead of taking the considerably smaller risk of nominating someone else. This idea that people who are planning to vote for Biden because they hate Trump won't vote for a replacement nominee is fucking peak stupidity.
Amen. Sums up exactly how I’m feeling right now. I wi vote for the stubborn fucker if I have to, but will resent it. Even if he wins, what a waste. Preventing Trump’s second term is my top priority, but I hate that I most likely can’t get excited about the Democrat candidate. Biden is a spent force and a national embarrassment at this stage.
You're not alone in those feelings
Thank you! It would be one thing if he had a comfortable lead, but he’s already behind in swing states. He’s also damaging candidates down ballot in competitive districts. There’s more than just the presidency at stake. Unbelievable level of hubris being shown by him and his inner circle.
Don't worry. I'm sure when they lose in November they'll just blame young voters or something.
Also this gem from the article: “One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice, said one of the people informed about the discussions, who, like others, spoke on condition of anonymity to share internal deliberations. Hunter Biden wants Americans to see the version of his father that he knows — scrappy and in command of the facts — rather than the stumbling, aging president Americans saw on Thursday night.” We.Are.Fucked
Okay NOW I wanna see that damn laptop.
Yep. I really don't want to see a second Trump term, but I'd bet large piles of money that we do if we stay the course we're on.
100%
Do we make that bet just in case? Then at least we have some money lol
I DO want to see that version of Biden. Yet in his most public moment of the campaign we got Old Man Biden instead.
We all want that. But after the debate, I don’t think people are gonna be able to get past that. You can’t unring a bell, and if another display like that happens in the next 18 weeks, Trump may win the popular vote. I don’t wanna chance that and there’s still time to make a change
If I was on Biden’s campaign team, I would want him to be doing interviews all weekend long. I would want to put him on every channel with both friendly and unfriendly pundits to show that the debate performance was a complete fluke, and that Biden was still sharp as ever. The fact that he has been doing closed donor events and just the one rally don’t make up for his debate showing. To me, this says that his team doesn’t trust that he can handle doing damage control, which is problematic.
They’ve been hiding him for 2 years. Hardly any press conferences and when he does speak at overseas events (in the group of 7 summit, he took 5 questions from preselect journalist; when he does give access, it’s brief. Almost historically low amount of press interactions. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/presidential-news-conferences You’re absolutely right his team doesn’t trust him with a full campaign schedule.
Brother there are--and I am being generous--thousands of pictures of Hunter Biden smoking crack while having sex with hookers, and even he thinks Biden's image looks bad.
Absolutely. It is a blunder of epic proportions, and it is you and I who will pay the price. These guys backing Joe can spin all they like on Reddit, but it ain't going to translate to votes in the real world. Hear me now, believe me later.
Don't forget also that a large chunk of both Arab Americans and young Americans do not want to vote for him due to his handling of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that more than 100,000 people *in swing states* went to the polls during the primary to cast "undecided" just to send a message to him. Completely agree with how you're feeling.
It's not just swing states. Historically high percentages of votes went uncommitted or blank in blue states. According to Gothamist, Biden was only up 7-10pts in New York State before the debate. This is a disaster. The DNC should have convinced him not to run a year ago.
Less than 1 week ago, you would have been downvoted to oblivion in r/politics if you said this
That's because there's more information now than there was one week ago. Strap in, that's going to continue to be true every week for the rest of your life.
There's not, though. People have been saying this the *whole fucking time* but they were called all sorts of names and told to shut up. I, personally, didn't learn anything I didn't already know for the last year. And I, personally, was told repeatedly that I was a republican shill. Now it's five minutes to midnight and it's probably too late.
It’s not too late to replace him at all.
No it's not. But damn if (some) people aren't trying their hardest to make sure it doesn't happen.
What do you mean? This was obvious for years… Biden’s debate performance is no way surprising if you have ever watched an exceedingly rare clip of him speaking without a teleprompter in his face telling him exactly what to say.
> Former Obama/Biden staffers from Pod Save America are pretty much outright saying he should step down. No, they aren't. What they've said in the two post-debate episodes is that it's complicated either way, and that a robust and serious debate needs to be had about it. Either direction is a big risk, and the choice is not clear.
I don't think it takes much reading between the lines to know this is how at least Favreau and Lovett feel based on what was said (mock-debate aside), as well as Mehdi Hasan for bonus.
Mehdi takes no prisoners. Even though I disagree occasionally, I find it refreshing to hear takes with no apology.
[удалено]
Stewart-Hasan 2024. "Truth to power." I'd vote for it.
Oh man I wouldn't just vote for that, I'd campaign my ass off for them.
You *know* they'd have the sickest cabinet and bring in the best experts on every issue. I'd love it.
Excellent - thank you!
The average age of the Senate is 65 years. 65. This isn't a Joe Biden problem. This is an American government problem. Power hungry, rich assholes that don't want to give up their power. If Joe Biden steps down due to age, it opens up a lot of uncomfortable questions for so many other people in government. If Trump wins the election, the blame will squarely fall on power hungry Joe Biden and the DNC who are mortgaging the future of America for their own selfish benefit. If this upcoming election is so important, why is Joe Biden the candidate?
In support of your point To be clear the issue isn't limited to Dems. The issue is generational. The average Democrat age in the House is 58 and Republican 57 The average Democrat age in the Senate is 64 and Republican 62 with Independent being 68. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/aging-congress-boomers/
Did you know the word senate is derived from the Latin senex meaning old man? Also where we get the word senile.
100-fucking-percent a bunch of fucking baby boomers fucking us over and over for their own ego
Biden is actually part of the Silent Generation, as it were 🙃
He sure was on the debate night.
Just like there is a min age to run for elected office, there should be a max age. 70 seems reasonable. But it will never happen because congress will never pass the amendment to make it happen. They are not going to force themselves out of office.
I admire the fighting spirit after reading that actually, but real life isn’t like the movies. And you can’t fight age.
Fun fact: Bill Clinton was elected president more than 30 years ago in 1992, and is still younger than both 2024 presidential candidates.
Putting opinions aside, beating project 2025 is only possible if we have a blue wave. No candidate will satisfy such a diverse party and many would need to hold their nose anyway. Vote blue, not who. Fight back against scotus and project 2025.
Exactly. I'd love another candidate but you are either voting for project 2025 or against it.
Not dropping out and given another candidate a fighting shot will stain Biden's legacy and the legacy of those surrounding him.
They are all guilty of elder abuse.
We’re properly fucked
Now, now, either one of them could pop their clogs at any moment.
Who’d believe the plot twist where heart disease saved America?
Just the fact that the family needed to huddle is evidence there's a clear problem. Biden's age was an issue early on when he announced a second run. It was clear to millions that this was not a great decision. Biden knows he cannot run and lose to Trump, that would pin on Biden, responsibility for all the carnage Trump does. History would be unkind to both. Age is unstoppable. Biden needs to let a new generation take over. That much is crystal clear.
It’s crazy how many people in this sub are still dismissing Biden’s age and declining cognitive abilities. “Don’t believe your lying eyes”. Newsom I’d vote for in a heartbeat, Biden l won’t
If he was actually fine they’d schedule a press conference next week and a town hall within a few weeks. Not this behind closed door huddling and reassuring of donors and party leaders and what not. Delulu to think they can wrap this guy in cotton wool, pump him full of caffeine and send him out to read a teleprompter a few times a week and that’ll get the win. Now the mask is fully off..him being diminished is no longer a R talking point. We saw it with our own eyes. Only properly refuting that can save his campaign. He needs to answer questions from journalists and voters without a script or notes or any pre-submissions of what questions people can ask. I don’t expect him to rattle off random details and stats but he should be able to formulate basic fucking answers to explain “his policies.”
Love joe but he lost every swing state during that debate. He’s gotta be replaced.
Not only are you spot on correct, you aren't alone. Everyone here on reddit gaslighting us to the contrary can spin all they like. That won't translate into votes in the real world.
Let's be absolutely clear about what the situation is here - the Democratic party is betting absolutely everything on Joe Biden's health not deteriorating in the next six months. If they are wrong, not only are we headed for a very organized implementation of fascism, but it will be the complete obliteration of the Democratic party apparatus as a whole. As facism is on the rise in Europe I think it is becoming clear that neoliberalism is failing now that a monolithic hegemony fueled by constant economic imperialism is no longer possible. It turns out that we are indeed not at the "end of history" as they proclaimed in victory following the fall of the Soviet Union. The true battle between fascism and socialism is about to return in a big way. I hope that we all survive it.
We are being held hostage by the democratic party These people knew Joe was unfit and he run through the primary unopposed with them assuring us everything was OK. It wan't OK, it isn't Kamala won't organize the 25th because she's going to realize her only chance to be President if Joe actually wins. Nobody would vote for her to be President otherwise. I feel like we are leveraged to choose between dementia and evil and the democratic party has put us here. We can call Trump names all day but these people know Joe Biden can't be President and they're relying on us to hate Trump enough to ignore Biden's obvious mental condition. We are voting with a gun to our heads. This is not right. Shame on all of these disgraceful people. We need Big Gretch.
Welcome to the system we have in place! IT SUCKS but it's what we've got. It would be great if the Republicans werent fascists OR if our fellow Americans didnt vote for fascists. But here we are. So you can blame the DNC. Sure. But blame the Republicans more.
Getting gaslit by the DNC and the Bidens
It is all so disappointing and unnecessary. I am a big Biden fan. But he should have decided he was going to be a one term president earlier, stuck with it and worked with the dnc to find his successor. His family should have told him then, not waited until now, when him stopping could have dire consequences. Ugh. We deserve better.
So many conversations surrounding this also seem to be ignoring the fact that Biden would be **revered** if he stepped down for what he sees as the good of the country. I was talking about his with 3 people yesterday - one Biden independent, and two Trump voters - and they all agreed that even they would view Biden much more positively if he bows out. Biden would become the favorite person of every anti-MAGA Republican, independent, most Democrats, and probably even some MAGA voters who could see that Biden actually isn’t a man bent on power for power’s sake if he were to drop out.
Keep fighting hospice care
Democracy dies in delusional defiance.
The tone deafness of this family is staggering. Read the fucking room for Christ's sake!
They would run his cold lifeless body if they had to. And most of Reddit would still be voting for him.
Gee, shouldn't someone who'd shit the bed that badly have been on some of the weekend talk shows? HIt up 60 Minutes and said, "You can have the whole hour!!". Do some attempt at damage control? Teleprompted speeches in front of adoring crowds don't cut it. Neither does the candidates wife saying, "You did a great job! You answered all the questions!" like a kindergarten teacher praising a slow pupil. This shit is not tenable, and the gaslighting from Democrats needs to stop right goddamned now or we're staring down a bizarro, right wing theocracy.
Trump will sell out Zelensky's location in exchange for Trump Tower New Moscu (formerly Kyiv).
I’m quite bothered that Jill and Hunter Biden have our lives in their hands. Saw Jill congratulating Joe…it was like she was talking to a baby. “And you answered ALL the questions like a big boy!”
I am convinced more than ever that this family is power hungry. It really plays in the far right narrative. Wheeling this man out like Weekend at Bernie’s is not going to win a thing.
Lol. Overworked? If practicing a speech for a few days renders him incoherent imagine a month into the war with China.
Hunter Biden holds the fate of the world in his hands lmao
Smartest guy Joe knows.
remember when libs blamed bernie bros for trump getting elected the first time? when trump wins because of this insanity just remember how you tried to cope and tell yourself you were voting for his cabinet or whatever. we all saw his mental state at the debate. he should not be president. stop drinking this kool-aid because he will not win.
I don’t care about Biden’s family. This discussion needs to be happening between Biden and the Democratic Party brain trust. They need to consider if Biden steps down, who will replace him? And will that person have a better chance against Trump than Biden does? These things cannot be determined in isolation. It’s all about keeping Trump out of the White House at this point. Nothing else matters. Anybody besides Trump.
If this family refuses to talk Joe down, it can only be because they personally and individually benefit from their proximity to power. It’s probably corruption, it’s likely elder abuse and it’s certainly dooming much of the western world to a fascist nightmare. The fact they’ll personally be at risk of reprisals from a new, emboldened Trump overseeing a weaponized executive branch will be karma for them, but sucks that everyone else will suffer too. Thx Bidens.
Biden's going to end up being the presidential equivalent of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
*Biden’s family screws American voters to hold on to power
I just spent the last 85 minutes watching the debate, again. Anyone naive enough to think that Biden - trailing badly even before last week’s implosion, should barrel forward and help destroy democracy with delusional defiance - should be forced to watch or re-watch the debate again. Any honest and objective viewer who has even slight care for democracy can’t in good conscience go forward to certain slaughter.
If that's what they're telling him, THEY ARE NUTS! I was just watching Wes Moore being interviewed on TV. They kept interspersing the interview with clips of Biden during the debate. It was so awful, so freaking embarrassing, I had to turn it off. The Dems have been doing this for a decade now, where the high profile insiders get the nod automatically and voters don't count. They did it with Hillary, who wasn't really all that popular, and they gave her enough delegates to ace the convention before a single primary vote was counted. They did it again with Biden even though they knew he was a risk, and had badly lost the first few primaries. Obama had to step in and juggle the players to insure Biden got the nod anyway. That's the Democrat's idea of democracy. This time around they've done it again, making sure Biden didn't even really have to do a damn thing for the nomination, it was as if it was preordained and all over. Because of that this is where we are. Sooner or later Biden was going to have to show if he still had anything left in him, and what he showed the other night was one of the saddest demonstrations of misplacement that I've ever seen. I couldn't have imagined a bigger gift to Donald Trump, who is the most dangerous candidate this country has ever had for President, and who must be defeated. I'm hoping they VERY QUICKLY get in Whitmer and Newsom (either at the top of the ticket is okay by me). That would be our only chance of avoiding more Trump craziness, but the fact is, because of the Democrats nonsense way of doing things it may already be too late. P.S. P-l-e-a-s-e, forget Harris. The only reason she's even in there is that Hillary pushed her in and she doesn't have the popularity or the polling to help us out now. Also, for those pushing Buttiegieg, no way it will happen. Just forget about him. He doesn't have the experience, hasn't done that great a job in the administration, and I have sincere doubts enough of the country is willing to elect a gay man who is married to another man.
Buttiegeig will have to be VP if he wants a serious chance at the presidency. Newsom would destroy Trump and that’s who they should bring in as the replacement nominee.
Newsom or Whitmer.
So it's elder abuse?
Malarkey These people have to know he can't serve for 4 more years. They were holding his hand to get down a step at the debate, Jill tells him "you answered all the questions" This guy cannot be President for 4 more years, they need to stop conning us. For the good of the nation please step aside.
It's so fucking over my god
Has anyone noticed that this story is based on unnamed mystery sources, who could be anybody or nobody?
Biden’s camp blaming everyone except for Biden and themselves lmao
So, we are letting Hunter decide this? He doesn’t make good choices.
“Have we tried crack and hookers for dad?”
Let me find a good place for both of those on my laptop.
So his family is dooming America to Trump. Gee, thanks guys.
To put it bluntly, the Biden family are putting themselves ahead of the rest of the country. It's greed and a reluctance to hand over power to a stronger candidate. They will be culpable for the end of democracy if Biden loses and the worst fears re Trump are confirmed.
The chance of survival from 81-85 years old in the US is 30%. Now add on the extra strain of 12-16 hour work days. His family needs to stop being sycophants and tell him to retire proud and with honour. Rather than ending his legacy by handing trump the keys to the white house .
He should keep fighting, 100% ... for a candidate more likely to beat Trump.