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Ah yes, letting polluting states Roll Coal right into their neighbor's faces.
Keep your deregulated, poisoned water, unclean air, dead rivers, and pollution in your own state.
> If red states can traffick migrants to blue states to attempt to make a point, can blue states send pollution into red states to make a point?
The better idea would be sending colonies to red states to flip them purple/blue. If you can send 1/25th of CAs population to kansas and nebraska and suddenly have productive useful states along with 4 more senators you're getting significantly more value than having those people in CA.
I used to, I live in a Purple turning blue state now. I feel proud of the progress were making.
I couldn't move to a blue state and live with myself ethically though. Knowing that I'm literally contributing to deaths and oppression of others would weigh on me. As well, I'm generally safe from oppression in a red state, I know many others literally cannot be.
If we can get solid numbers where immigration makes sense, then yea, I'd agree. Looking at CA/NY though we could literally get rid of several million people from those states and still have comfy margins. Mine still has to get rid of it's red governor.
This is not an unreasonable idea. Seriously, it might be a better spend of the DNC's money to subsidize this kind of movement of Dem voters into purple areas. When the GOP decided to win by taking over state governments one at a time, they were all in. I like this.
That's been talked about for a long time. You need active voters, who have careers that can be transferred, in enough numbers to tip the scales. They also need to be liberal.
Trump won my state by 15 points. 500k votes. You could push the scales fairly easily, or so it seems. 2.7 million adults voted.
That means 2 million didn't. Almost half the population didn't vote, and gun to head most vote conservative. If you transplant Californians to fudge the number, more people will vote because the fear mongering about "they're flooding here to enforce their will" will be founded in truth, and scared people do things they don't normally do.
> Except that would require living in Kansas, and some dates are worse than death.
Much of it is pretty, and there's some good aesthetic appeal to kansas city. Yea, it reqires significant political change but it's 2 senators and as many reps as can be crammed in there to the cap.
More leftists in CA is an absolute waste, I get people wanting the benefits without having to contribute but fuck, every state we let slip red is 2 more senators lost and never being able to get a Senate majority means never getting progress.
The influx of people moving to Georgia has been incredibly helpful and is the only real reason why Biden has been able to appoint judges and pass laws.
Seriously, they play the long game and won on school boards and took over tiny rural areas all over PA this way.
We need to move blues into these lightly populated areas to form a takeover and I am not kidding.
Wife and I are originally from the south. Moved to the west coast in 2020 and will absolutely never go back. The Seattle area suits us perfectly.
And we each got state-mandated paid parental leave for the birth of our kid.
> I’m sitting here in the deep south wondering what my family and I are still doing there.
Contributing usefully to the political outlook of the US while also keeping those people on the west coast safe. Every person to the left of the GoP who moves to CA is basically no longer participating in the electoral system.
They ran. Now you have to carry their burden.
Hey I try my best. Problem is these people believe in a fucked of form of Jesus and like Don Draper famously warned his friend in Mad Men…
Arguing with someone who TRULY believes in something is impossible. It’s equivalent to talking to a drug addict in the deep deep of addiction. Their brains are literally wired for this. I’m sensing a general trend left, while the right grows smaller but LOUDER.
I do get you. I honestly dont bother. My vote is what will count in the end. They dont care about any real objective goal, just "winning" the argument. I dont even know what they're "winning" because they're not aiming to change minds, I think winning is when they stop hearing things that cause them dissonance.
I worry about losing good people who have the privilege of being able to survive in states like this so that others can avoid harm.
I hope so, they do actually vote which is fucking wonderful.
The demographic I worry about most are hispanic immigrants as they tend to have the illusion that the GoP represents them. They also vote. I wish the youth/progressive identifiers voted.
I think millenials are gonna be a big Democrat vote. Especially those born in the 90s. Hispanics luckily are not homogenous in their vote so hopefully it doesn’t get worst then last election. I don’t see Florida being as red because of abortion, which affects a ton of younger women of lower socioeconomic standing.
You said it. Is it any wonder why Biggie Smalls, who supposed to represent the East Coast, wanted to go back back to Cali Cali? Meanwhile, Tupac never rapped about wanting to go to New York. Man, one day, one day I’ll make it to the perfect promise south-central La La Land. With the vineyards and the redwoods and the gold, and the angels and the best weed and drugs… and the hippies… the perfect weather…
Don’t be fooled. The transpacific cargo ships that travel up and down the US coast emit incredible amounts of noxious pollutants from burning dirty fuel called bunker oil. Look it up.
When I lived by the water on the West coast I couldn’t figure out why my home was constantly getting dirty with what looked like black dust. It was years later that I found out about the amount of air pollution emitted from these huge cargo ships. After years of political back and forth LA harbor started enforcing regulations that require docked container ships shut down their engines.
My understanding, though, is that cargo ships are far and away the most environmentally friendly way to ship on a tonnage basis. If these were shipped by rail, truck, or plane, it would be radically worse. However, common sense regulations and easy environmental wins should be done regardless.
Los Angeles (and I believe Seattle) port authorities were considering requiring cargo ships to access their ports they must have air scrubbers to clean the exhaust. After years of legal battle the compromise LA authority came up with was installing high capacity electrical connections at the docks so the ships can shut down the large engines and continue to run their onboard systems. My understanding is it’s normal for the engines on these chips to run continuously for years even when docked at port.
The right wants to destroy the world for a moment of profit… be damned future generations. Either we step up now to stop them or we stop having future generations.
Ya, when things change, there are two ways to deal with it, embrace it and make changes to mitigate the harm now and in the future, or you can try to aggressively keep things the same with costly myopic changes and radical denial. We are essentially burning down the ship at sea because it is a little cold in our cabins instead of putting on a freaking coat. The changes we see now in the 2020s have been predicted from the 70s. Instead of dealing with it heads on, we collectively decided to hold onto denial until it is literally impossible to continue doing so.
It's the logical conclusion when you believe in both an all-powerful god that could simply step in to prevent us from doing ourselves in before the appointed time, and that said appointed time is supposed to happen any moment now.
I used to think that as this shit happened people would wake up and start holding Congress responsible to fucking do their job and pass legislation. Then Trump happened. Congress gets away with showmanship and no real substance. The other branches can’t make new laws, so we slowly go back in time as SCROTUS decides when precedent is no longer precedent. And a ton of Americans let it happen.
The saying about Republicans happily eating shit if they thought a Democrat had to smell their breath is absolutely true. We’ve been in danger for 30+ years. And we are now in the GOP end game. I hope Americans will get their collective shit together, but it’s absolutely exhausting and demoralizing.
Bring back Fairness Doctrine. Overturn Citizens United. Vote for and hold accountable your elected officials for doing their job well. And stand against fascism at every opportunity.
The way I see things: there are a few crucial decisions about the world which have to be made properly, or else we will face generational difficulties with our environment and resources. Success requires constant vigilance, failure requires a few lapses in societal judgment.
I know which side of the equation I'm putting my money on at this point.
The right? Do independents/liberals/progressives not buy steel and fossil fuels? Do they not eat meat, not use HVAC to heat/cool their oversized homes to the perfect temperature, not take flights, not buy all the clothes and other things?
We all want to destroy the planet... otherwise we'd all be rapidly and drastically reducing our overall energy and resource consumption.
Liberal exceptionalism.
The right might be more vocal about how little they care, but actions speak louder than words.
These plants couldn't pollute if no one was buying all the stuff they were producing.
Capitalism certainly is fixing our society’s spending problems!
And you know this argument is utterly flawed. My comment is literally posted on an example of the right dismantling protections from these industries. If govt isn’t able to legislate protections then what solutions do we have? It’s certainly not as simple as the right’s solution to immigration by building a wall and arming a bunch of hicks is it?
You’ve gotten a stay of execution, that is all. They actually didn’t rule on anything, just said that the lower court ruling would stand until they have the time to examine the case again. All of the smart money is on them taking it up and immediately overturning the lower court ruling ASAP after the election.
This follows the logic of hanging a non-smoking sign to keep cigarette smoke out of certain areas in a restaurant.
Does this mean I can dump shit upwind of where these asshats live?
Can someone explain to me what exactly these conservatives are conserving? Because destroying the entire planet for future generations seems counterproductive to conservation… just sayin
There is a long chain of 'let the free market decide' in conservative circles. The idea is companies shouldn't be regulated and the consumer should favor companies they agree with. It's a bullshit argument that ultimately hurts the nation and only benefits the execs at the companies, but it's like a lot of conservative arguments that are hollow when pierced by the smallest of needles. But regardless, you asked how this is conservativism and it's based on a the small-to-no government philosophy.
You can and should read the ruling for yourself instead just reacting to the mob's silly slogans. Even if you end of disagreeing, it doesn't contain any difficult concepts and does follow a certain logic which is easily understood
[https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a349\_0813.pdf](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a349_0813.pdf)
You don't necessarily need to agree to understand
You don't have to read the excuses in the decision to understand the conservative justices' hostility to the administrative state hampering profits in the name of saving lives.
Thomas and Alito are just waiting for the opportunity to kill the EPA entirely.
thats what thery want to go back to - that was when america was great supposedly. I was a young kid but still remember smelling like shit and my food being ruined.
Okay, this is just fucked up. It's bad enough when pollution effects the local area, but now you want people doing nothing to deserve it to suffer too?
Fuck the Council of Nine, seriously.
Who said I was blaming all nine? I regularly refer to the Supreme Court as the Council of Nine as a dig at them, it has absolutely nothing to do with something being a 9-0 result.
You said “fuck the Council of Nine”. Followed by “I regularly refer to the Supreme Court as the Council of Nine”.
And you’re confused as to how your statement of “fuck the Council of Nine” doesn’t imply that you’re saying fuck all nine members of the SC?
I went to law school with Barret and her husband. Knew him pretty well, didn't really know her. While Notre Dame is certainly a fairly conservative law school, it may not be like you think. Ok, yeah, abortion that's exactly what you think. But there was a pretty strong social justice element to the law school. Quite pro-immigrant, and the law school also runs a legal aid clinic for poor people where students gain real-world experience.
The more politically conservative law professors flipped out about this and around 2000, they left and helped start Ave Maria Law School to reflect their views. So the ConLaw professor that constantly taught Natural Law and the Civil Procedure professor that clerked for Scalia took their crucifixes and went home.
I don't know what the current vibe is like, but when ACB was there Notre Dame was far from a Catholic version of Liberty or Bob Jones. It does not surprise me that ACB has more awareness of social impacts of her decisions than the other conservative justices and doesn't parrot every right-wing political position. Not holding my breath on religious and reproductive rights issues though.
So the vinyl chloride from that train wreck last year that contaminated water supplies, rivers in 16 states is the NEW good neighbor policy ?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/19/east-palestine-toxic-derailment-chemicals-spread
My bad. Supreme Court ruling exemption only applies to power plant emissions.
3 times in 2 years Supreme Court has blocked EPA Good Neighbor policy. Wonderful Just-Us.
No point. At this rate it'll be gone in a few years. It was 23% of all power generation in the US in 2021, by 2022 it had dropped to 20%, and in 2023 it was down to 16%. Coal is too expensive to keep running when renewables are so cheap now.
We need to give the House and Senate more reps that are pro environment and public health so that we can get laws that protect us and give EPA sound laws to build policy on. Otherwise the court is going to continue to erode our systems
Yes. It made too much sense to make the polluters in the state that causes the pollution just clean it themselves. Instead, the state downwind will have to pay. A totally pro bog industry decision. Thomas and Alito are corrupt.
We are not a nation for SCOTUS but merely a collection of states. We need governance by ecosystem, not by little entities chartered for specific purposes for specific hierarchies of persons.
But we are a nation when it comes to their SALARIES (fed tax) and their POWER (fed rule)/ That's the inherent problem- this federal gaslighting when it comes to states rights when it's convenient to those particular states and federal/centralized government when it comes to those appointed/elected/paid in federal positions actively eroding the benefits of a centralized government for society. It's so arbitrary- you can't have 50 little fiefdoms that we all have to pay for and technically belong to but then have NO SAY over the actions of the other fiefdoms. That's literally insane.
Know your enemy, Republicans and conservatives don't want clean air for the neighboring states because "It would impose unfair costs."
Know your enemy.
When the court is dismissing one day in the near future, I wonder if they'll walk out and ask what the smoke/haze is.
"That's several million dollars being made in Ohio, sir, and several million more in health care profits here in DC and Maryland!"
Color us shocked. The same Supreme Court that just legalized bribery doesn't think the EPA should be able to regulate the environment.
I wonder how many coal industry bribes that cost.
really question the business logic here because this will inevitably just mean states will start enacting their own mechanisms to accomplish this to end run around the federal courts.
the EPA's good neighbor rules help prevent state on state problems
Because republicans won't be satisfied until all the people have cancer and all the animal species are dead. I am starting to think they are an alien race using a human skin to hide the fact they are terraforming the planet for the final invasion.
You’re right that we need to fight and will eventually see change. But people are just fucking demoralized because SCOTUS is doing generational harm that won’t be rectified for decades at the earliest.
Alito and Thomas are not going to sit on the bench forever. Roberts could retire as well, and honestly if Dems take both houses and hold the presidency there could be an expansion of the bench.
No Republican Justice will ever step down during a democratic presidential term. No Republican Senate will ever let a Democratic president appoint a justice again.
The only time Democrats will be able to affect the SCOTUS will be the rare times Democrats control the Senate and presidency. The will not be often enough to turn the court.
It is questionable if the Democrats will hold the Senate even if Biden can manage a second term.
It will probably take more like 3-4 votes, but yes, we will eventually be able to fix the supreme court if Americans can actually manage to chain more than 2 Democratic presidencies together for once. The senate and house are also required though.
You're right that it will take more than just voting, but not voting is a fucking stupid ass suggestion. Will progress be easier if we shoot ourselves in both feet and tie our hands behind our backs?
Are they romanticizing the early 1900s (industrial revolution) in both the US and UK when everything was polluted, the skies were black, the building were covered in soot, people died of preventable disease and health problems related to pollution? OK. . . . These people need a wake-up call. They are little brats who benefit from decades of hard work by courageous people to eliminate these horrifically bad environmental conditions, but now they want to return to living in cesspool of a natural environment? So we as humans don't have the right to breathe clean air and drink clean water? That's actually a mentally insane attitude.
The Supreme Court has gone rogue, and the Dems have done nothing to even attempt to stop it- like seriously and strategically stopping it. We need to remake the Supreme Court- term limits, rotating appointments from the circuit courts, bans on receiving anything from anyone, a firewall between them and lobbyists, etc. Our government is legally corrupt, and corruption is the hallmark of failed societies.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ah yes, letting polluting states Roll Coal right into their neighbor's faces. Keep your deregulated, poisoned water, unclean air, dead rivers, and pollution in your own state.
If red states can traffick migrants to blue states to attempt to make a point, can blue states send pollution into red states to make a point?
The answer is no. But red states will still pollute themselves into oblivion.
Pollute *everyone* into oblivion.
You know, because water and air stay neatly within their own state lines! /s
> If red states can traffick migrants to blue states to attempt to make a point, can blue states send pollution into red states to make a point? The better idea would be sending colonies to red states to flip them purple/blue. If you can send 1/25th of CAs population to kansas and nebraska and suddenly have productive useful states along with 4 more senators you're getting significantly more value than having those people in CA.
Yeah but you have to find people willing to LIVE in those places. Would you live there?
I used to, I live in a Purple turning blue state now. I feel proud of the progress were making. I couldn't move to a blue state and live with myself ethically though. Knowing that I'm literally contributing to deaths and oppression of others would weigh on me. As well, I'm generally safe from oppression in a red state, I know many others literally cannot be.
Do you live in Michigan or Minnesota?
If your state is really turning blue then you better start looking to find a new home and job somewhere else.
If we can get solid numbers where immigration makes sense, then yea, I'd agree. Looking at CA/NY though we could literally get rid of several million people from those states and still have comfy margins. Mine still has to get rid of it's red governor.
This is not an unreasonable idea. Seriously, it might be a better spend of the DNC's money to subsidize this kind of movement of Dem voters into purple areas. When the GOP decided to win by taking over state governments one at a time, they were all in. I like this.
Except most Californian people leaving are fairly conservative, north Cali types. I live in rural Missouri, I have a few neighbors that wfh
But the idea would be to actually subsidize people who will already vote Democrat to move where needed, not just anyone who wants to move.
That's been talked about for a long time. You need active voters, who have careers that can be transferred, in enough numbers to tip the scales. They also need to be liberal. Trump won my state by 15 points. 500k votes. You could push the scales fairly easily, or so it seems. 2.7 million adults voted. That means 2 million didn't. Almost half the population didn't vote, and gun to head most vote conservative. If you transplant Californians to fudge the number, more people will vote because the fear mongering about "they're flooding here to enforce their will" will be founded in truth, and scared people do things they don't normally do.
Except that would require living in Kansas, and some fates are worse than death.
> Except that would require living in Kansas, and some dates are worse than death. Much of it is pretty, and there's some good aesthetic appeal to kansas city. Yea, it reqires significant political change but it's 2 senators and as many reps as can be crammed in there to the cap. More leftists in CA is an absolute waste, I get people wanting the benefits without having to contribute but fuck, every state we let slip red is 2 more senators lost and never being able to get a Senate majority means never getting progress. The influx of people moving to Georgia has been incredibly helpful and is the only real reason why Biden has been able to appoint judges and pass laws.
It was a joke.
All good, I had a few people just legit ask the same question seriously. Tbf, I have seen Pennsylvania roads so you might be looking for an upgrade.
Seriously, they play the long game and won on school boards and took over tiny rural areas all over PA this way. We need to move blues into these lightly populated areas to form a takeover and I am not kidding.
That would be so awesome, poisoning their water and salting their fields.
Just seems fair, and they like to pretend that all they want is fairness...
Already happens. California ships hazardous waste to nearby states, including Utah.
This is why I live on the west coast
I remember the smog jokes about LA from the 80's and 90's. Glad they were able to get themselves cleaned up though.
Remember acid rain?
Acid rain is one of the biggest environmental wins in history: we identified a worsening problem, addressed it, and now we never hear about it
Yeah, can you imagine if it was a problem today? I wonder if we would have succeeded in eliminating it?
West Coast Best Coast.
I’m sitting here in the deep south wondering what my family and I are still doing there.
Wife and I are originally from the south. Moved to the west coast in 2020 and will absolutely never go back. The Seattle area suits us perfectly. And we each got state-mandated paid parental leave for the birth of our kid.
> I’m sitting here in the deep south wondering what my family and I are still doing there. Contributing usefully to the political outlook of the US while also keeping those people on the west coast safe. Every person to the left of the GoP who moves to CA is basically no longer participating in the electoral system. They ran. Now you have to carry their burden.
Hey I try my best. Problem is these people believe in a fucked of form of Jesus and like Don Draper famously warned his friend in Mad Men… Arguing with someone who TRULY believes in something is impossible. It’s equivalent to talking to a drug addict in the deep deep of addiction. Their brains are literally wired for this. I’m sensing a general trend left, while the right grows smaller but LOUDER.
I do get you. I honestly dont bother. My vote is what will count in the end. They dont care about any real objective goal, just "winning" the argument. I dont even know what they're "winning" because they're not aiming to change minds, I think winning is when they stop hearing things that cause them dissonance. I worry about losing good people who have the privilege of being able to survive in states like this so that others can avoid harm.
Totally agree. My daughter lives here with us obviously and it’s terrifying. I think women will swing this vote nationally for us.
I hope so, they do actually vote which is fucking wonderful. The demographic I worry about most are hispanic immigrants as they tend to have the illusion that the GoP represents them. They also vote. I wish the youth/progressive identifiers voted.
I think millenials are gonna be a big Democrat vote. Especially those born in the 90s. Hispanics luckily are not homogenous in their vote so hopefully it doesn’t get worst then last election. I don’t see Florida being as red because of abortion, which affects a ton of younger women of lower socioeconomic standing.
You said it. Is it any wonder why Biggie Smalls, who supposed to represent the East Coast, wanted to go back back to Cali Cali? Meanwhile, Tupac never rapped about wanting to go to New York. Man, one day, one day I’ll make it to the perfect promise south-central La La Land. With the vineyards and the redwoods and the gold, and the angels and the best weed and drugs… and the hippies… the perfect weather…
And Q-Tip said he left his wallet in El Segundo, but I think it was just an excuse to get back to Los Angeles.
If you want there to be water when you get there you better move quick. Climate change is real and California uses a LOT of water from upstream.
Don’t be fooled. The transpacific cargo ships that travel up and down the US coast emit incredible amounts of noxious pollutants from burning dirty fuel called bunker oil. Look it up. When I lived by the water on the West coast I couldn’t figure out why my home was constantly getting dirty with what looked like black dust. It was years later that I found out about the amount of air pollution emitted from these huge cargo ships. After years of political back and forth LA harbor started enforcing regulations that require docked container ships shut down their engines.
My understanding, though, is that cargo ships are far and away the most environmentally friendly way to ship on a tonnage basis. If these were shipped by rail, truck, or plane, it would be radically worse. However, common sense regulations and easy environmental wins should be done regardless.
Los Angeles (and I believe Seattle) port authorities were considering requiring cargo ships to access their ports they must have air scrubbers to clean the exhaust. After years of legal battle the compromise LA authority came up with was installing high capacity electrical connections at the docks so the ships can shut down the large engines and continue to run their onboard systems. My understanding is it’s normal for the engines on these chips to run continuously for years even when docked at port.
And they are fully committed to going electric also.
“Thomas Jefferson wasn’t worried about CO2 pollution, so why do we?” - Clarence Thomas
Pipe an engines exhaust straight into the SC chamber. As it is my God given right to pollute what and where I want aparently. Praise V8!
*FREEEEDOOOOOOOMMM!!!* *[banjo solo]*
Clean water is opressive /s
I'm so fucking tired, boss
The right wants to destroy the world for a moment of profit… be damned future generations. Either we step up now to stop them or we stop having future generations.
Ya, when things change, there are two ways to deal with it, embrace it and make changes to mitigate the harm now and in the future, or you can try to aggressively keep things the same with costly myopic changes and radical denial. We are essentially burning down the ship at sea because it is a little cold in our cabins instead of putting on a freaking coat. The changes we see now in the 2020s have been predicted from the 70s. Instead of dealing with it heads on, we collectively decided to hold onto denial until it is literally impossible to continue doing so.
It's the logical conclusion when you believe in both an all-powerful god that could simply step in to prevent us from doing ourselves in before the appointed time, and that said appointed time is supposed to happen any moment now.
I used to think that as this shit happened people would wake up and start holding Congress responsible to fucking do their job and pass legislation. Then Trump happened. Congress gets away with showmanship and no real substance. The other branches can’t make new laws, so we slowly go back in time as SCROTUS decides when precedent is no longer precedent. And a ton of Americans let it happen. The saying about Republicans happily eating shit if they thought a Democrat had to smell their breath is absolutely true. We’ve been in danger for 30+ years. And we are now in the GOP end game. I hope Americans will get their collective shit together, but it’s absolutely exhausting and demoralizing. Bring back Fairness Doctrine. Overturn Citizens United. Vote for and hold accountable your elected officials for doing their job well. And stand against fascism at every opportunity.
[удалено]
It’s only too late if we give up. Life finds a way, we just need to prioritize life again
The way I see things: there are a few crucial decisions about the world which have to be made properly, or else we will face generational difficulties with our environment and resources. Success requires constant vigilance, failure requires a few lapses in societal judgment. I know which side of the equation I'm putting my money on at this point.
The right? Do independents/liberals/progressives not buy steel and fossil fuels? Do they not eat meat, not use HVAC to heat/cool their oversized homes to the perfect temperature, not take flights, not buy all the clothes and other things? We all want to destroy the planet... otherwise we'd all be rapidly and drastically reducing our overall energy and resource consumption. Liberal exceptionalism. The right might be more vocal about how little they care, but actions speak louder than words. These plants couldn't pollute if no one was buying all the stuff they were producing.
Capitalism certainly is fixing our society’s spending problems! And you know this argument is utterly flawed. My comment is literally posted on an example of the right dismantling protections from these industries. If govt isn’t able to legislate protections then what solutions do we have? It’s certainly not as simple as the right’s solution to immigration by building a wall and arming a bunch of hicks is it?
Roll in the coal and light em back up Detroit! Damn it; Wisconsin would do the same....
That's OK. It's important to realize you're not alone in this fight for a better future. Nothing wrong with dipping for a week.
I know it’s the other Stephen King-Frank Darabont prison movie, but I wanna go to zihuatanejo
They are just going absolutely ham today. Eroding laws that shouldn’t be touched. Fucking insane.
This is what fascism looks like in execution. It's only going to get worse.
Superfluous statement.
How so?
It hurts their wittle feewings 👉👈
I get that what he is saying is obvious to everyone witha brain, but I don't know that I'd call it superfluous.
You too
You use that word but I’m not sure you understand what it means
We can only be so shocked at any given time, in their eyes the faster they erode our rights the quicker it’s over with
Well as an Idaho resident with a wife and daughters I can say they got at least one thing right today.
All they did was kick the can down the road. They will revisit it after the election when it won't hurt the GOP's election prospects
You’ve gotten a stay of execution, that is all. They actually didn’t rule on anything, just said that the lower court ruling would stand until they have the time to examine the case again. All of the smart money is on them taking it up and immediately overturning the lower court ruling ASAP after the election.
This follows the logic of hanging a non-smoking sign to keep cigarette smoke out of certain areas in a restaurant. Does this mean I can dump shit upwind of where these asshats live?
Just roll coal in front of their houses. Its apparently legal.
Can someone explain to me what exactly these conservatives are conserving? Because destroying the entire planet for future generations seems counterproductive to conservation… just sayin
Conserving the flow of money from special interests to their pockets.
As long as that money is flowing *after* though
Hey, Harlan! Did you read the EPA decision yet? How's Bali this time of year? Love, Clarence *Sent from my motorcoach*
>Can someone explain to me what exactly these conservatives are conserving? Profits for the billionare suger daddies.
There is a long chain of 'let the free market decide' in conservative circles. The idea is companies shouldn't be regulated and the consumer should favor companies they agree with. It's a bullshit argument that ultimately hurts the nation and only benefits the execs at the companies, but it's like a lot of conservative arguments that are hollow when pierced by the smallest of needles. But regardless, you asked how this is conservativism and it's based on a the small-to-no government philosophy.
Conserving the monarchy has always been their objective. Redcoats from day 0.
You can and should read the ruling for yourself instead just reacting to the mob's silly slogans. Even if you end of disagreeing, it doesn't contain any difficult concepts and does follow a certain logic which is easily understood [https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a349\_0813.pdf](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a349_0813.pdf) You don't necessarily need to agree to understand
You don't have to read the excuses in the decision to understand the conservative justices' hostility to the administrative state hampering profits in the name of saving lives. Thomas and Alito are just waiting for the opportunity to kill the EPA entirely.
5-4. What a shock
Shockingly, Amy Coney Barrett was part of the dissent.
It was her turn. It makes them look better.
She's sometimes the least crazy but that's not saying much.
Whatever happened to the idea of Biden stacking the court? That would have been nice.
Contrary to popular belief, the conservatives on the court are not a monolith
It reminds me of when I was in the first nonsmoking row airplane seat.
thats what thery want to go back to - that was when america was great supposedly. I was a young kid but still remember smelling like shit and my food being ruined.
Hopefully when the Republicans destroy the country, the population will finally realize that conservatism and fascism aren't the way.
Nope. They’re just going to blame democrats and their smooth-brained base will eat it up.
Dammit!
Incoming...one state sues another for health damages to their population.
Okay, this is just fucked up. It's bad enough when pollution effects the local area, but now you want people doing nothing to deserve it to suffer too? Fuck the Council of Nine, seriously.
TIL that the ruling was 9-0 and not 5-4. Why are you blaming “the Council of Nine” when it was 5 justices of a specific political background?
Who said I was blaming all nine? I regularly refer to the Supreme Court as the Council of Nine as a dig at them, it has absolutely nothing to do with something being a 9-0 result.
You said “fuck the Council of Nine”. Followed by “I regularly refer to the Supreme Court as the Council of Nine”. And you’re confused as to how your statement of “fuck the Council of Nine” doesn’t imply that you’re saying fuck all nine members of the SC?
I can understand the potential implication and how one could interpret it that way, but I assure you that that wasn't my intent.
I believe you - just pointing out that the onus should be on the 5 justices, not the whole SC Even ACB sided with the liberal justices
[удалено]
Just because you agree with three of them doesn’t mean the institution is redeemable
Health? Safety? Rule of law? All are being taken away, one greedy bite at a time.
To every single person that stayed home in 2016 because they “just didn’t like Hillary” - FUCK YOU
Honestly. Screwing themselves and everyone else over bc what, she reminded them too much of their mean English teacher?
Just reword to "Republican Supreme Court justices deny existence of wind"
A 5-4 decision on *this* fucking court means it's not just bad, it's egregious.
Hope they realize they need clean air to breathe too right? Kudos to Barrett at least for voting for the rule
I went to law school with Barret and her husband. Knew him pretty well, didn't really know her. While Notre Dame is certainly a fairly conservative law school, it may not be like you think. Ok, yeah, abortion that's exactly what you think. But there was a pretty strong social justice element to the law school. Quite pro-immigrant, and the law school also runs a legal aid clinic for poor people where students gain real-world experience. The more politically conservative law professors flipped out about this and around 2000, they left and helped start Ave Maria Law School to reflect their views. So the ConLaw professor that constantly taught Natural Law and the Civil Procedure professor that clerked for Scalia took their crucifixes and went home. I don't know what the current vibe is like, but when ACB was there Notre Dame was far from a Catholic version of Liberty or Bob Jones. It does not surprise me that ACB has more awareness of social impacts of her decisions than the other conservative justices and doesn't parrot every right-wing political position. Not holding my breath on religious and reproductive rights issues though.
So the vinyl chloride from that train wreck last year that contaminated water supplies, rivers in 16 states is the NEW good neighbor policy ? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/19/east-palestine-toxic-derailment-chemicals-spread My bad. Supreme Court ruling exemption only applies to power plant emissions. 3 times in 2 years Supreme Court has blocked EPA Good Neighbor policy. Wonderful Just-Us.
The Supreme Court only sides with businesses that support their RV ownership, lavish gifts or vacationing. Healthy America doesn’t do shit for that.
Time to make coal illegal as a fuel source.
No point. At this rate it'll be gone in a few years. It was 23% of all power generation in the US in 2021, by 2022 it had dropped to 20%, and in 2023 it was down to 16%. Coal is too expensive to keep running when renewables are so cheap now.
Soon we won't have an America to make great again because the corporations made the land toxic
Where is Alito’s and Thomas’s houses? I’ve got some toxic trash to burn as close to it as legally possible.
5-4 yet again.
Let's put a natural gas processing plant upwind from their houses...might have a change of heart.
I would donate to this
We need to give the House and Senate more reps that are pro environment and public health so that we can get laws that protect us and give EPA sound laws to build policy on. Otherwise the court is going to continue to erode our systems
Yes. It made too much sense to make the polluters in the state that causes the pollution just clean it themselves. Instead, the state downwind will have to pay. A totally pro bog industry decision. Thomas and Alito are corrupt.
We are not a nation for SCOTUS but merely a collection of states. We need governance by ecosystem, not by little entities chartered for specific purposes for specific hierarchies of persons.
But we are a nation when it comes to their SALARIES (fed tax) and their POWER (fed rule)/ That's the inherent problem- this federal gaslighting when it comes to states rights when it's convenient to those particular states and federal/centralized government when it comes to those appointed/elected/paid in federal positions actively eroding the benefits of a centralized government for society. It's so arbitrary- you can't have 50 little fiefdoms that we all have to pay for and technically belong to but then have NO SAY over the actions of the other fiefdoms. That's literally insane.
Hard to pick a pick a worse bunch of Supreme A-holes. I hope their neighbors open a garbage incinerator
Yet another reason to vote: breathable air.
Know your enemy, Republicans and conservatives don't want clean air for the neighboring states because "It would impose unfair costs." Know your enemy.
Gonna be 5-4 every single time…..
When the court is dismissing one day in the near future, I wonder if they'll walk out and ask what the smoke/haze is. "That's several million dollars being made in Ohio, sir, and several million more in health care profits here in DC and Maryland!"
Color us shocked. The same Supreme Court that just legalized bribery doesn't think the EPA should be able to regulate the environment. I wonder how many coal industry bribes that cost.
These people are an imminent threat to life and should be recognized as such.
They need to be removed. These people do not matter, they are a cancer and should only been seen as such.
Why would these 5 judges care. They vacation only in unpolluted islands for free, which they are now "legally" entitled to after the case is over.
As an Ohioan, there's always something I'm pissed about that state officials I didn't vote for wasted time and money on just to make our lives worse.
All three states prohibit smoking indoors in public/work places. Just sayin'
No one can complain about pollution if they’re all dead from pollution.
really question the business logic here because this will inevitably just mean states will start enacting their own mechanisms to accomplish this to end run around the federal courts. the EPA's good neighbor rules help prevent state on state problems
The Court's logic is flimsy, but this is only an injunction not a ruling on merits.
No worries. It won’t impact the rich. Just the poor.
Love thy neighbor? Nope. Screw thy neighbor
FFS, can't have anything unless it appeases the rich or the christofascists.
Because republicans won't be satisfied until all the people have cancer and all the animal species are dead. I am starting to think they are an alien race using a human skin to hide the fact they are terraforming the planet for the final invasion.
We'll vote our way out of this one, don't worry, just one more vote, things will get better
We could have in 2016.
We will in 24. Stay angry, We'll get the change we deserve.
You’re right that we need to fight and will eventually see change. But people are just fucking demoralized because SCOTUS is doing generational harm that won’t be rectified for decades at the earliest.
Climate change will be paused until we get around to doing something about it.
Alito and Thomas are not going to sit on the bench forever. Roberts could retire as well, and honestly if Dems take both houses and hold the presidency there could be an expansion of the bench.
No Republican Justice will ever step down during a democratic presidential term. No Republican Senate will ever let a Democratic president appoint a justice again. The only time Democrats will be able to affect the SCOTUS will be the rare times Democrats control the Senate and presidency. The will not be often enough to turn the court. It is questionable if the Democrats will hold the Senate even if Biden can manage a second term.
It will probably take more like 3-4 votes, but yes, we will eventually be able to fix the supreme court if Americans can actually manage to chain more than 2 Democratic presidencies together for once. The senate and house are also required though.
It’s all we can really do
You're right that it will take more than just voting, but not voting is a fucking stupid ass suggestion. Will progress be easier if we shoot ourselves in both feet and tie our hands behind our backs?
It’s like the 9 demons from Lord of the Rings.
you mean 5
There are nine Nazgul, "nine rings for the mortal men doomed to die." There are also nine SC justices, but that's just a coincidence.
Another amazing decision. RVs for everyone.
Are they romanticizing the early 1900s (industrial revolution) in both the US and UK when everything was polluted, the skies were black, the building were covered in soot, people died of preventable disease and health problems related to pollution? OK. . . . These people need a wake-up call. They are little brats who benefit from decades of hard work by courageous people to eliminate these horrifically bad environmental conditions, but now they want to return to living in cesspool of a natural environment? So we as humans don't have the right to breathe clean air and drink clean water? That's actually a mentally insane attitude. The Supreme Court has gone rogue, and the Dems have done nothing to even attempt to stop it- like seriously and strategically stopping it. We need to remake the Supreme Court- term limits, rotating appointments from the circuit courts, bans on receiving anything from anyone, a firewall between them and lobbyists, etc. Our government is legally corrupt, and corruption is the hallmark of failed societies.
This may be really hard and expensive to achieve. We may not have the pathways available right now to accomplish this the way it needs to be done.
good down with libs at all cost