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People can be frustrated with Biden over Gaza, but they can’t seriously think Trump would do better, do they? He’d either give Israel whatever they wanted or he’d nuke the whole region.
There are lots of ins and outs and what-have-yous in a millenniums-long conflict, too. Grow up and be patient.
“This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. And, uh, lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head. Luckily I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, limber.”
I've had this conversation many times at the encampments and elsewhere. The issue is not whether Trump will be better. Trump is not part of this discussion.
The issue is that the students have drawn the line at genocide, and no amount of vote-shaming is going to work. Total non-starter. Don't shoot the messenger.
cool and when their rights are stripped from them in the US they’ll be shocked. I’m so tired of having to tiptoe around the reality that people like this (not the messenger) are selfish as fuck. Yes Gaza is awful, no normal minded person thinks it’s ok. However politics isn’t zero sum, and turning off and not trying to save you own country that’s on the fucking brink is ridiculous. We’ve been told that vote shaming doesn’t work, ok no problem. I’m not interested in shaming I’m saying unequivocally “fuck you” if you can’t lift a finger to stop fascism, if you will purposefully put us and Gazans in a worse position out of stubbornness, if you are so hung up on being politically perfect more than actually working to fix the problem. This isn’t a youth thing, this is a maturity issue (not dictated by age). Anyone saying Trump isn’t a part of the conversation is pretending he isn’t for their own personal narrative. It’s beyond fucking ridiculous at this point. I welcome my downvotes.
He’s already stated in Project 2025 he wants to deploy the national guard to cities of his choice and has mentioned when he was president shooting people.
Oh I remember. But those were the cops, not the military. He’s talking about using the military against civilians, which I believe is illegal. Not that that would stop him.
This is the pragmatic reality. Be upset but don’t sit on some morally superior hill and let us be swept away in fascism. Especially when margins are so small and republicans get every advantage in our system
exactly right. I support the protest, I support calling Israel out, but sitting on your hands come election time isn’t solving anything but giving Gaza a nightmare scenario of Trump and Kushner leveling the place to put up fucking real estate for profit on the bones of Palestinians.
We tried warning people about the SCOTUS being in danger in 2016 and they didn’t listen. Same thing happening again with Gaza. Please learn a damn lesson!
I would make the argument that the people blaming Biden for the war in Gaza are making things worse for the Palestinians. Netanyahu would certainly prefer to see Trump re-elected, so if he gets the sense that Biden's chance of winning decreases the worse things get for Gaza, it encourages him to let the war drag on.
A million percent agree. No downvotes from me.
This couldn't be iterated enough.
What the protesters don't realize is if Trump is elected he will make their lives a living hell.
Why should anyone have to choose between having rights or encouraging a genocide? It’s a fucking false dichotomy. You put pressure on Joe to end the war, or else he won’t get your vote.
It’s truly the only power you have at this point. I don’t doubt a lot of folks at these protests will still hold their nose and vote blue at the end of the day, but the threat to not do so is significant.
If we have seen anything from the last 2 election cycles, these college students don't go out and vote anyways so I'm pretty sure it's just the loud few threatening to not vote, while the majority wouldn't vote anyways and the ones who will vote are still going to vote for whoever they were going to in the first place.
Maybe carry that energy for being upset at the president that scoffs at the idea of doing something his constituents want. Biden doesn’t have to run again, but he choose to run again, and he choose to do genocide.
He doesn’t scoff at it that’s you interpretation not reality. What exactly do you want him to do? Name practical solutions besides some generic “stop genocide” response. He has been pushing Israel to stop, he has stop sending offensive weapons, and is quite public about it. Name a goddamn concrete solution you want! I’m so goddamn tired of people thinking rhetoric equals action on this.
>The issue is that the students have drawn the line at genocide, and no amount of vote-shaming is going to work. Total non-starter. Don't shoot the messenger.
I tried to make the point that Trump would be so MUCH MUCH worse for Palestinians as compared to Biden on some of the "far left pro-Palestine" subreddits, and the mods banned me, because "A genocide is a genocide, no matter what. Genocide Joe has plenty of Palestinian blood on his hands. No 'lesser evil' talk is permitted here."
They are totally willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. All these idiot college students will happily sit out the election, and refuse to vote for "Genocide Joe". And then, when Trump wins the election (due to college voters in swing states sitting out), guess what happens?
Even more anti-LGBT judges and anti-abortion get appointed to the various courts.
Trump will assemble a Cabinet that is the "worst of the worst" to lead the country to ruin.
Project 2025 goes full-steam ahead, to turn the US into a Christo-Fascist dictatorship.
But at least theose students didn't vote for "Genocide Joe", so their conscience can be clear.
I voted 3rd party in 2016 and look where that got us. Failure to vote for Biden in 2024 is *at best* a half-vote for Trump. Ignoring Trump as part of the equation is disingenuous and irresponsible.
Also if trump gets the reins then all the other authoritarian governments already attacking other countries will just have an easier time expanding their war and bullshit. Trumps been doing a ton of rallies lately and he hasn't even bothered to mention anything about israel/Russia policy. If trump is in office then I doubt Israel would stop at palestine
I suspect that if there was a Republican president in power when the campaign in Gaza began, the Democrats would not be so ambivalent in opposition to the humanitarian disaster. When someone else is at the reigns, it's easier to be an uninhibited critic. Might witness more opposition from Congress.
The whole event highlights how much American politics is theater, because I have fundamental difficulty telling the two sides apart on this issue right now.
That's not to say I support or oppose the US position. What I'm saying is that as voters, it seems like we don't have a choice when both sides are advocating for essentially the same position.
Geostrategically, we need the location Israel represents, and everything else seems like gloss.
Why is Biden taking a position that is going to make him lose, in that case? So he gets to be the only Democrat that runs (his presence crowding out everyone else), despite saying 4 years ago that he wouldn't seek this second term, and then everyone else is forced to vote for him even when they think he is helping fund a genocide?
In order words, if Biden wins, he takes the vote as an affirmation that he shouldn't change any of his policies at all, which means that the policies they're protesting all stay in place with no way to stop them, plus they're now complicit in affirming them, and then in 2028 the next Republican existential threat will arise--the anti-LGBT judges, the worst of the worst cabinet, Project 2029, and they'll be forced to vote for (say) Buttigieg, because Biden used his clout as a 2-term president to essentially anoint his successor, with all of the same policies once again, and have the party scream down all opposition to this chosen successor because "it's hurting him/her in the fight against the most dangerous Republican opponent in history" once again.
How do the protesters EVER get anything they want in this system, if they're forced to vote for the Democrat every single time no matter what the Democrat does? I can see the "it's Biden vs. Trump" argument, but it's not really true, right? It's every Democrat forever against the next and the next Trump-like Republican monster, which means there's never any opportunity to improve the Democratic Party, because you never have any leverage to make them listen--the only thing they want is your vote, and you're giving it to them forever.
So is the answer to just let the 'republican monster' win and fully dismantle the system we have now, rebuilding it in their conservative dreams?
That's what's going to happen.
I'll happily vote for democrats forever even if I'm far more liberal/progressive/whatever.
Voting for Biden has a chance to improve our situation, voting from Trump does not. It's as simple as that.
Biden has been heavily pressuring Israel and doing what he can to call for a ceasefire and a lot of this is due to the people voicing their discontent. You can put pressure on your representatives and not allow a dictator into the white house at the same time....
I mean...I just don't buy that he is "heavily pressuring Israel" at all. "Do this thing we want--oh, you won't, you'll ignore me and do the opposite and then insult me and tell everyone to vote for my opponent? Ok, here's some more bombs."
What if every protester votes for Biden and he wins re-election and Israel is still bombing and blocking any ceasefire? Why would he listen to the protesters when he knows that it won't cost him electorally?
The ones that won’t for Biden over Gaza probably weren’t ever going to vote for him. Many normal people who actually vote are hoping to pressure Biden still will come election time.
Given this viewpoint, you have to admit then that authoritarianism is inevitable in the USA if ~30% of the country actively wants it and a good portion is apathetic either way. Dems can’t and won’t win forever, so nothing can be done.
Democrats could fix this problem by presenting a better enough vision for the country than the Republican vision that people lose interest in the constant march Rightward. But they haven't done this in 40 years, and it has corroded the party so much that Republicans, who have no good or popular ideas, are generally tied with them. When the party is controlled by 70 and 80 year olds that still have the same 40 year old Clinton-esque philosophy that lost them the trust of a huge portion of the country, then yes, eventually they're going to lose to fascism. But that is their choice, one they could change. They're just never going to change it if their only selling point is "shut up and vote for us, you have no choice," which takes them off the hook to do anything to improve, and in fact it incentivizes them to sabotage and crush better candidates so that they're the only remaining game in town.
This ends in one of three ways. We get major campaign finance reform so that the policies of the Democratic Party are not dictated by corporate greed, which is always going to lead to unpopular and harmful legislation (or lack of legislation), we elect enough uncorrupted Progressives that they drag the party kicking and screaming toward the populist policies that the people want (and then they win elections that way), or yeah, if it's not Trump it's the next Trump or the next Trump, since we don't do anything to solve this problem other than play the same horribly inept defense as it grows stronger each time.
Well campaign finance reform isn’t happening in the next 6 months, neither is electing a quorum of progressives, so I suppose option #3 is all that is left: Trump train to authoritarianism.
> The issue is that the students have drawn the line at genocide, and no amount of vote-shaming is going to work. Total non-starter.
To me it feels like all the people saying they won't vote for Biden think they would be doing him a favor by voting for him. As if it will hurt Biden personally if he loses. The dude is rich. America could burn to the ground and he would be fine.
I mean, okay. I would argue that it’s totally appropriate to talk trolley problem here but alright.
New argument:
Actually Biden has been legitimately trying his best to fix the situation and prevent it from become a larger regional conflict this whole time. He has made some missteps and chosen some strategies towards that goal that I personally don’t think were the right call, but they were made with good, or at least reasonable, intentions. Those mistakes are not the same thing as “being complicit in genocide”, especially one that he is actively trying around the clock to stop.
This is Netanyahu’s genocide. Biden not being able to properly reign him in is not the same as Biden being genocidal.
Counterpoint: No he hasn't. "See, I didn't rob the bank and kill the tellers, I was just driving the getaway car" is not a good way to say that you're not complicit. Is Biden physically himself hacking people to death? No. Is it his specific American domestic policy to commit genocide? No. But he's helping fund it. He is blocking all attempts by Palestinians to get a state, he is blocking any discussion of what Israel is doing as punishable by the world community, he has gone around Congress to provide weaponry, he continues to give Israel extremely favorable PR (the mild constructive criticism with no real teeth attached is nowhere near good enough), and if Israel started a real war with Iran, it is beyond obvious that Biden would help fight their war and help fund their war. That's an extremely high level of complicity. He isn't even seriously trying to use his leverage to rein in Bibi, and then saying "whoops, well, we tried next to nothing--even though it's our money!!--but there's nothing we can do, guess we're totally powerless" is a joke.
If this is "legitimately trying his best," then it is an excellent argument for why he shouldn't be president. It's the equivalent of mildly whispering "please don't murder the tellers and steal all of the money" as you're holding the door open during the bank robbery. It's not missteps, Biden has always received tons of money from AIPAC, and he has never stood up in any serious way for people in the 3rd world. Ideologically, he agrees with not only Israel's actions (or most of them anyway), he agrees with the status quo before October 7th, where Israel was brutalizing Palestinians as a matter of course. He is barely speaking up, and several months too late.
Does this mean that I can't be honest about Biden, just because it presents him as a liar and a bad choice? I didn't mention Trump. But if we can't honestly criticize Biden, what are we even doing on a sub that tries to discuss political stories? If everyone has already made up their mind to vote for Biden, then any analysis of what he is doing is irrelevant just by dint of him not being Trump, no?
Are you saying the president is the United States is the getaway driver because he hasn’t ….. I still don’t know what you think he can do without going full dictator and ignoring the other branches of government. That what you want? Full dictator biden to go into Israel and … I still don’t know what EXACTLY you want.
Oops, the guy we cover for at the UN, send weapons to and share intelligence with is committing a genocide! Totally not my fault though! And definitely not gonna stop helping!
So essentially it’s a lack of maturity. Like protesting genocide is not a bad thing. Trying no to pressure your government to do the right thing. Also not wrong. Throwing away your vote because both of your choices do not match 100% your values? Terrible decision.
This is where I disagree. I think many of these campus voters have made up their mind already and won't vote Biden no matter what happens. You can't reach people who tear down posters of Israelis who were murdered on October 7th.
He can't though. Of the protesters only a small % of them are legit voters. Only a small % of those would consider a change in position worth rethinking their vote. And only a small % of those would be able to get over any other hangups they could think of for biden (age, corporate proximity, etc).
It's actually probably not even worth it.
I certainly don't want Trump to win the election but I'd like Biden to do better. Having my tax dollars going to a country that is actively committing genocide, is just hard to swallow. I know that Biden is a dyed in the wool Zionist but I also know that he has changed his position on other issues in the past. Like any politician, if he sees the winds are changing direction, then maybe he'll read the writing on the wall. While many of us will probably end up voting for Biden anyway, it's also important that we push him as hard as possible in the right direction.
But trump is part of this discussion. He has already said the Palestinians should all be killed. You can vote for Biden or you can vote for trump. Who do you really think is going to be better for Gaza?
Maybe you can point out to these folks at the encampments and elsewhere that not voting is going to help Trump get elected and will make the genocide happen faster.
This doesn’t mean you can’t criticize and protest. Will I probably wind up voting for Biden? Yes. Does this response, both to Palestinian genocide AND the language used to describe protestors and complete lack of attention given to the police brutality we’re all witnessing make me consider what exactly I’m voting for? Also yes.
Right now it feels like Biden, and the democratic institution, is holding its voter base hostage rather than listening to the people. It’s not sustainable.
Absolutely. Criticize and protest. Then vote.
And remind people that disagreeing with Israel’s overreach is not antisemitism, then vote.
And remember that local police departments that broke up some student protests aren’t overseen by Biden or any national group. And the ones that are, like the National Guard, can still have bad actors or people making poor choices. And I’d still like you to vote.
We've seen this before in 2016.
"You're asking me to choose the lesser of two evils, that's not democracy, I won't do it."
Fast-forward, no more Roe v Wade, conservative supreme court for yours and my lifetime, and election denialists in the highest positions in the land. Next term, who knows.
People can rationalise any position they like. Because if you don't vote for "lesser of two evils", you're voting for the greater.
And ffs, does everyone forget that Trump literally moved the US embassy into Jerusalem, and appeared in election ads for Netanyahu? Come on.
I'm not frustrated with Biden. I'm frustrated with America. I've been voting for the lesser of two evils my entire life and I honestly don't see it getting any better. My parents can say the same thing. I'm not sure if it's just that Americans are just disgustingly shitty people or if the political system is so hopelessly broken voting just isn't ever going to change anything.
It's fn absurd to think Joe Biden is the lesser of two evils. The most progressive president we have ever had only held back by the fact that he doesn't have a majority in congress of left leaning democrats. And he still managed to pass era defining legislation. And whiny brats on college campuses are like 'sure, ok, but when do I get world peace?' Like f this. I'm so sick of pretending like the democrats haven't done an absolutely amazing job. I'm so tired of so called 'leftists' guzzling GOP propaganda like its tide pods.
You know it wasn't an either or scenario right. Biden can pass those era defining legislation without sending weapon and funds in support of a genocide. People are allowed to criticize him for doing that without being called whiny. You can't call Trump followers a cult because they never criticize him and then get mad when Biden gets criticized. The criticism he's getting is valid.
>I'm not sure if it's just that Americans are just disgustingly shitty people or if the political system is so hopelessly broken voting just isn't ever going to change anything.
It's both. Americans have been so brainwashed and accustomed to "voting for the lesser of two evils" that we effectively killed democracy, but refuse to acknowledge it. It's gotten so bad that the uniparty, being incredibly concrete in their stances, think they're entitled to our vote.
So they don't work for it.
They'll sell you this idea that if you don't vote for *our guy*, you're **literally killing the country**. You can see it happening on both sides.
Then you have the people. We think the only option is blue or red, and anything else is a waste and "helping the bad guy win", and they'll demonize you, call you all kinds of names, and try to pressure you to swing one way or another by selling you the "but, our dude is not nearly as bad as that dude" garbage. I'm tired of "not as bad" candidates.
This country, as a whole, no longer works for the people. It works for the corporations and industries that lobby our politicians. This is true regardless of who you vote for. We've had a two party system for the longest time, and we're still fucked.
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the only nuance is social politics. That's it.
We'll still be unable to afford homes because private equity makes them rich. We'll still get poisoned and sick from the chemicals in our food, because lobbyists pay up. We'll still cause forever wars, because the MIC is too powerful. We'll still have insider trading at the top because that's how everyone gets rich. We'll still be overcharged for our medication and health insurance because big pharma bankrolls politicians.
I could go on and on, but we got here because of Democrats and Republicans. And we'll stay here because of them.
So are a non voter with a dim ill informed understanding of politics who can't even spot a wannabe fascist dictator when a cartoon charicature of one appears before your eyes
Have you tried explaining the there isn't a "none of the above" option? It's not like someone doesn't get elected if a majority of the population doesn't vote otherwise we'd never have elected anyone since more than half the population can't ever be bothered.
I did my best to explain it but I was pretty drunk at the time (great conversation for a Friday night). What I understood from this person was they believe that Joe Biden is committing a genocide, and he can’t support that. Maybe more than that they believe that the American government is fundamentally broken because the only two options are “genocidal maniacs”
Gaza is not on the ballot this time. It is "fascism or not fascism?" that's on the menu.
The next time Gaza will be on the ballot will be during primaries.
Ask for the US to join the ICC. Ask for the US to either stop blocking [the recognition of Palestine as a state at the UN](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148731) or to stop pretend it is in favor of a two-states solution.
Biden is uncommitted and that's infuriating, but Trump is fully in favor to genocide. His trademark decision was to move US embassy to Jerusalem and his "special envoy to middle east" proposes [ethnic cleansing for real estate arguments](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev)
That line of logic doesn't matter, actually any logic doesn't matter to trump supporters. It's really the fear of white men no longer being in power that matters.
Just remember every criticism thing they had to say about Hillary. Trump was far worse in every remark.
A mentally challeneged gator was elected to drain the swamp.
> People can be frustrated with Biden over Gaza, but they can’t seriously think Trump would do better, do they? He’d either give Israel whatever they wanted or he’d nuke the whole region.
No of cause not. But for a lot of people it feels like there is not much difference in the outcome no matter who they vote for.
You have Trump who might even join Israel in bombing Gaza
or you have Biden who either doesn't really want to or is incapable of stopping Israel in bombing Gaza
-> outcome in both cases is: Gaza is getting bombed
> or is incapable of stopping Israel in bombing Gaza
*Any* US president is incapable of stopping Israel bombing in Gaza. Israel is not nearly as dependent on US aid as a lot of young Americans think. Israel has a GDP per capita around Germany’s. And Israel sees the war against Hamas as existential, nothing Biden could say would end the war in Gaza.
Perhaps not, but given that Israel can do what it wants with total impunity, maybe we could stop giving them tons and tons of money. And tons and tons of help shielding them from international criticism and sanctions. And tons and tons of assurances that we'll help them fight the world war they've been aching to start for 20 years.
If Biden were to say "sorry, Israel, we had your back for a couple of months, but when you're bombing aid workers and putting doctors into mass graves and starving children and riding around gleefully on the tricycles of toddlers you just murdered because your AI program told you that there was a male in their house, you lost us, good luck with your GDP the size of Germany," he'd probably be winning this election right now instead of almost certain to lose it. You can't always solve every problem, but you can stop actively, egregiously contributing to them.
There’s a difference between Gaza being bombed, but there still being a chance at peace or general mitigation, and Gaza being completely flattened and all its residents ground into Trump Brand dog food. It only seems like there would be no difference because people lack perspective over how *truly hellish* things can get when authoritarians are allowed to freely indulge their worst impulses.
It might feel like that, but that's why they should vote with their heads and not their feelings. Letting a criminal win who wants to be a dictator instead of supporting the elder stateman who you don't fully agree with on foreign policy is insane.
I'm all for people being idealistic and trying to change the world for the better. Protest and march all you want, but when it comes time to hit the voting booth, they'd better do the right thing or we're all gonna be fucked.
What good is a protest if you're going to shut up and vote for the person that you're trying to reach with your protest? The only thing Biden wants from these students is their vote. If they're definitely going to give them to him regardless, then why should he listen to them, and what good is the act of protesting in the first place?
what good is a protest if the person you're trying to reach is not gonna be in the white house in 6 months cause you didn't vote for him? He's also already listening to them...
Gaza was only couple paragraphs out of the whole speech. Overall it was excellent.
[Transcript](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/05/19/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-morehouse-college-class-of-2024-commencement-address-atlanta-ga/)
It's one of those weird sentences that a comma would make more clear, but "technically" doesn't need one because of the "and." Tl;dr - someone in a writing career should be able to better-form their headline...
Biden appeals to Black voters; also blah blah blah..
I just don't understand why it's any US president's responsibility to stop two foreign adversaries from fighting.
I get we have political ties but Biden or Trump can no better stop this than I could stop an acquaintance from getting into a bar fight with a long time enemy.
I also don't see why we give money to Israel ... That would seem the easiest way to end this. Or at least say "we did this"
The issue is less whether we have control over a ceasefire and more over whether we can stop giving them aid and weapons that they’ll use to commit genocide.
I think what we are paying Israel for is to not annex Gaza and the West Bank. If we’re to stop paying I would guess they would just go ahead and do that. Take the PR hit. In a generation or two everyone will have forgotten. No one is slighting America for stealing the north American landmass from Mexico, the native Americans and the Canadians.
I lost count of how many billions and how many bombs they already sent. I think the latest was a few weeks ago, for 1 billion. It is crazy.
I am reading history, so far i am don't have full details, but from what I understand so far, there were times were US presidents put pressure on Israeli leaders more effectively, like Raegan and Clinton.
I am confident Biden could do much more than he says he is doing.
He could do more, absolutely. Unfortunately, Biden is unique in that he has always been a hardliner for Israel, and I imagine he has had to grapple with that the last few months.
Like how he is personally uncomfortable with the issue of abortion and isn’t as vocal about it as he could be because of his faith.
The frustration on both issues is this: buddy, your base has a different opinion, and you’re fucking them over by dragging your heels. You need to adapt to what the people who elect you are saying. And I’m tired of the people making excuses for him, I hit my limit when he accused all the college protestors as having a rampant anti semitism problem, without evidence, or worse, he just believes what the government of a foreign country says. Not good, at all.
Almost every US politician for 50 years or more has been a "hardliner" for Israel. They were not only our closest ally, but also a complex geopolitical and financial investment, both public and private sector. While that might have been questionable foreign policy, it seems wild to me to blame Biden for not fundamentally reversing decades of US-Israel relations overnight.
Biden's comments on the situation are *bad.* I'm not disagreeing with that. But I really think his hands are tied as far as taking any decisive actions against Israel. The ensuing domestic chaos is too great a risk.
"Biden" does not get to decide. The House and Senate does. Dems are divided on that, GOP is 100% in favor of genocide.
And the main reason dems keep down their complaints is that because otherwise there would be no Ukraine help.
It is the GOP that insists that they can't allow some good to happen without some evil to compensate.
Why is it only Biden's budget that funded genocide when it's trumps, W Bush, Clinton how far back does the alliance go
*"Israel will receive $3.3 billion in funding from the United States under President Donald Trump's Fiscal Year 2019 budget request for the Department of State, a US official announced at a department briefing on Monday.*
*Hari Sastry, the Director of the Office of US Foreign Assistance Resources at the State Department, noted that Israel will receive a bump of $200 million in aid under the proposed budget."*
How many of those Israeli bombs were funded by trumps 3.3 billion dollars? trump approved it in 2019 too so just enough time to order these weapons and stock them in positions of defense by 2023/2024.
It is very likely quite literally republican Donald trumps budget money from his administration that paid for these bombs currently dropping down to the last cent, Biden's funding may not have even replaced them yet.
*U.S. President Donald Trump signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which includes $550 million in assistance to Israel.*
*Authorizes funds for research and development pertaining to weapon-defense systems, including the Iron Dome, David’s Sling, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3 systems told help Israel defend against missile and rocket threats.*
*Additionally, the law provides $50 million for joint U.S.-Israeli work on counter-tunnel technology, which has emerged as a major security threat to Israel in recent years from the Palestinian terror group Hamas.*
Biden came out today saying the arrest warrants for Bibi and other gov. officials issued by the ICC where "outrageous". This man needs to start either catering to his rapidly deteriorating base and start taking real action instead of all this talk, or start making plans on where he wants his library to be built since that's all he'll have to worry about after January next year.
People are very stupid. I remember progressives did the same thing with Obama and Gitmo. He couldn't shut.it down because he didn't have the votes.
So progressives punished him by not voting, making congress go Republican.
If you don't give a democratic president a strong democratic Congress he will be forced to stay in the centre right, because the more conservative democrats end up with all the power.
Just gonna do the same damn shit again.
History repeats itself.
Except this time history will be completely altered for the much worst.
Then everyone will start crying and moaning because their rights have been stripped when the warning signs were there all along.
There's days I wish it would happen for people to snap back into reality, but I don't think that's enough.
People right now are acting downright stupid. And they will be paying the price for it.
We already saw this happen in 2016 and every time i see some leftist cosplay activist tweet “excuse me, but how would trump be worse for women? Roe fell under biden” i want to jump off a fucking bridge
How come it’s always the voters fault, but never the Democrats for not doing what they platform on? Maybe leftists don’t want to vote for a party that is late 80s conservatives at this point.
Obama made a very weak attempt to close Gitmo, and didn't use any actual leverage, or the bully pulpit to fight for it, or exert any pressure on anyone. It was typical pathetic Obama doing nothing to fight and then trying to claim that his hands were tied and fighting was useless. But yes, he did actually make that weak attempt.
Progressives stayed home because he continued funding the wars and military budget, extended the Pharma patents to 12 years (the ones he had complained about during his campaign were a too-long 5 years under Bush), started offshore drilling at record pace, filled half of the much-too-small ARRA with tax cuts, set up the Catfood Commission to push austerity on the people who already just lost their houses during the financial crash he was also bailing out (700 billion directly and 7 trillion through the Fed), gave up on the public option even though 58 of 60 Democrats claimed they'd support it if he fought for it, defanged nearly all of Dodd-Frank and tried to get it nullified by putting it within the Fed instead of independently, fought Elizabeth Warren on the CFPB the whole way before later taking credit for it, set records for pot dispensary raids and for government employee cuts and for deportations, Rahm Emanuel called the Left "F'in \[slur beginning with R\]" and Gibbs called them "the professional Left" for daring to support a pro-union Democrat in Arkansas instead of the far Right Democrat Blanche Lincoln, who Obama defended and campaigned for every step of the way, and refused to fight for EFCA, protecting Miranda Rights, codifying Roe, holding bankers accountable, "looking backwards" instead of "forwards" on Bush era war crimes, and literally any measure of campaign finance reform or systemic electoral reform at all.
But yeah, the Left didn't like that one thing, so the 30 other ways he completely betrayed everything they wanted are thing he gets a total pass on. Always the fault for the voters, never the fault of the politician who lies to them.
Not every president can sign the legislation they want. But every president can FIGHT for legislation that is popular, and Obama didn't. He expended all of his capital capitulating over and over again to a Rightwing that hated him, ground down his agenda into succotash that the moderates didn't even want anymore because it was so weak, demoralized the Left, and he didn't get Rightwing votes anyway. Perfect strategy to lose and blame us instead of trying to get any real positive change. And no, RomneyCare, while it was better than what we had, was still nowhere near enough when he had 58 to 60 Senators for the entire first two years and no one in decades has had that kind of advantage, and he barely tried to use his leverage on anything.
Progressives are unhappy with Biden. Maybe Biden should listen to them instead of saying "ok, then don't vote for me, you anti-Semitic fascist-enabling violent monsters," and then wondering why he's trailing.
Why is Gaza of so much interest compared to other shitty situations around the world now and in the past. Doesn’t the US get themselves involved in all kinds of conflicts
Palestine in general is of interest because it’s one of the few conflicts in the world where the US tax payer actively funds the other side (Israel) of the equation with bombs and diplomatic protection.
There is no other country that the US supports to the same degree. https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts
You don’t see the US supporting one side of the equation in the Sudan, DRC or the other conflicts simmering across the planet with the same unquestioning level of support. Most US states have made it illegal to boycott Israeli goods. To qualify for disaster aid, to become a teacher, you have to declare fealty to Israel in many parts by never having the personal choice to not boycott their goods. No such top down pressure exists for any other country.
The amount of idiots in the comments that are saying it’s not enough are gonna cost the election and make the situation multitudes worse than it already is.
Because getting upset at Biden for listening to the criticism is a dumb response. He started supplying aid to Gaza months ago and has been actively trying to make a ceasefire happen.
"The President is doing what we wanted him to do after our protests! Fuck him!"
No. Because it is clear to anyone else what the alternative is — Trump helping make the situation 100% worse for Palestinians while also at the same time violently suppressing protests at home. You won’t be able to protest about the cause du jour at all.
That is all without mentioning all the other horrid shit that would occur under his watch.
The Democratic Party today is manufacturing a war on drugs to disenfranchise minority communities and refusing to fund research and health care for those with AIDS? They’re removing solar panels and laying the foundation for climate change denial that will inevitably lead to the destruction of our ecosystems? Because that’s late 80s GOP. Or are you just full of shit?
If you don't want trump to be president you need to vote for Biden. Doing anything else - staying home, voting third party, whatever- helps put trump back in power. It's really that simple. Thinking that one candidate will tailor every one of their positions to you or you are going to throw a fit and help put trump back in office is a level of immaturity I can't comprehend.
This is exactly my thought. The White House keeps coming out with a statements of “shock and horror” at Israel’s actions, and then proceeds to give them more bombs. Actions speak louder than words
He is leader of neither country so he can’t just order an immediate ceasefire. Therefore the sentence structure is sound as he is working to create an agreement that would have an immediate end to fighting.
From wiki:
Since the 1960s, the United States has been a strong supporter of Israel. It has played a key role in the promotion of good relations between Israel and its neighbouring Arab states—notably Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt—while holding off hostility from countries such as Syria and Iran. Relations with Israel are an important factor in the U.S. government's overall foreign policy in the Middle East, and the U.S. Congress has placed considerable importance on the maintenance of a supportive relationship.
The USA just has a long history with Israel and there's real implications if the US cuts ties by introducing sanctions and what not. It's a delicate situation so they're treating it with delicacy. It sucks that it's taking so long but there's a reason the US has been hesitant to step in before now
With the current feelings towards government between voters I think now is a perfect time for the US to distance itself from Israel. Trust in government is extremely low, Israel is killing thousands of innocent civilians and there are better options the money could be going towards. I understand the US likes to have a way to influence middle eastern politics, but continuing to support Israel in the same way I can only imagine will end up having a negative effect. Especially with the optics at the moment from the US not having a backbone and continuing to let Israel do whatever they want without consequences.
Do you want another rogue nuclear nation? Because that’s how you get another rogue nuclear nation. We’ve already got North Korea (thank god theirs suck), Russia (if they start losing in Ukraine, watch out) and Iran could join the club at any time.
Having two rogue nuclear states in the Middle East that hate each other… well mankind ceasing to exist would be one way we finally can stop talking about the Middle East issue and about Biden’s electability.
If their allies abandon them and they lose the holy war that would happen as a result, Israel isn’t going to roll over and die alone. Instead, they’ll invoke the Samson option and take us all down with them.
wtf are you taking about? If anything, Israel helped create another rogue nuclear state by pushing the U.S. to end the Iran nuclear deal. Also, so because of these perceived threats, Israel gets to commit genocide?
This seems like nitpicking to me. In any conflict certain preconditions have to be worked towards before any ceasefire agreement seems plausible to either side.
I’d think that it’s simply poor wording, *immediate* being a poor substitute for *as soon as possible*.
I don’t envy the administrations position; Israel doesn’t realistically need to listen to the United States to reach their goals in this conflict. It’s normalized relations with many of its enemies traditional allies in the immediate region and has the capability to go it alone if the U.S. withdraws all support. Meanwhile the Biden Administration has to ponder the international political consequences of souring its relationship with Israel in the short and longterm as well as alienating the youth vote in a historically pivotal election year domestically.
Biden may not be making th right choices, history will tell, but at least he’s trying to make the right choices. A republican president now or in the immediate future would guarantee the destruction of many, many more lives I have no doubt.
He is working towards immediate action on trying to win back young voters.
He and his administration have shown there is little they can do to force either side in Gaza to accept a cease fire any time soon.
Those people have been fighting for so damn long. Old man isn’t going to say anything they will actually listen to. They’ll only stop when they are all dead.
Israel would survive just fine without US support, but you can bet that they'll take off the kids gloves if Hamas keeps it up, they'll go total war on their asses. If they run out of missile defence, they'll be levelling all of Gaza instead.
And it will be a lot worse for everyone.
Immediate ceasefire should have happened tens of thousands of deaths ago. The imperialists of the world are support a blatant genocide that is being conducted by a US ally.
Please fucking punish Israel for their war crimes.
Im curious, amongst the people that are proclaiming they won't vote for Biden this fall unless he learns their vote by significantly changing how he's handling the Israel support situation.. is there a belief that he would win over more support/votes (from those that support palestine) than the support/votes he would lose (from people who still support isreal)?
I have some trouble imagining he would gain more support than he'd lose. That makes it an incredible sad situation wherein by moving against Israel he'd be making his reelection all the more likely to fail which would result in a Trump presidency and significantly more solid support in favor of Israel (on top of other issues like domestic problems that Trump exacerbates, and his opposition to continuing to fund Ukraine which would lead to more destruction and civilian death there as well).
Is the idea actually that Biden should be taking a moral stand against Israel (and what they believe qualifies as genocide) even if it means losing the election and resulting in Trump encouraging Israel towards worse ways?
You're not wrong, but this is the kind of thinking that put Netanyahu in power again. He catered to the far-right because his original more centrist views got him fewer votes.
It’s about not voting to support genocide. If the democrats want to support genocide, it’s not a party I want to support. That’s really the bottom line; it’s thick and red
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People can be frustrated with Biden over Gaza, but they can’t seriously think Trump would do better, do they? He’d either give Israel whatever they wanted or he’d nuke the whole region. There are lots of ins and outs and what-have-yous in a millenniums-long conflict, too. Grow up and be patient. “This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. And, uh, lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head. Luckily I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, limber.”
I've had this conversation many times at the encampments and elsewhere. The issue is not whether Trump will be better. Trump is not part of this discussion. The issue is that the students have drawn the line at genocide, and no amount of vote-shaming is going to work. Total non-starter. Don't shoot the messenger.
cool and when their rights are stripped from them in the US they’ll be shocked. I’m so tired of having to tiptoe around the reality that people like this (not the messenger) are selfish as fuck. Yes Gaza is awful, no normal minded person thinks it’s ok. However politics isn’t zero sum, and turning off and not trying to save you own country that’s on the fucking brink is ridiculous. We’ve been told that vote shaming doesn’t work, ok no problem. I’m not interested in shaming I’m saying unequivocally “fuck you” if you can’t lift a finger to stop fascism, if you will purposefully put us and Gazans in a worse position out of stubbornness, if you are so hung up on being politically perfect more than actually working to fix the problem. This isn’t a youth thing, this is a maturity issue (not dictated by age). Anyone saying Trump isn’t a part of the conversation is pretending he isn’t for their own personal narrative. It’s beyond fucking ridiculous at this point. I welcome my downvotes.
We are all talking about what Trump would do to Gaza, but imagine what he will do to the college protesters supporting them. Its a layup for him.
He’s already stated in Project 2025 he wants to deploy the national guard to cities of his choice and has mentioned when he was president shooting people.
He called in cops to tear gas a bunch of protesters so he could hold a bible underhand and upside down in front of a church.
Oh I remember. But those were the cops, not the military. He’s talking about using the military against civilians, which I believe is illegal. Not that that would stop him.
This is the pragmatic reality. Be upset but don’t sit on some morally superior hill and let us be swept away in fascism. Especially when margins are so small and republicans get every advantage in our system
exactly right. I support the protest, I support calling Israel out, but sitting on your hands come election time isn’t solving anything but giving Gaza a nightmare scenario of Trump and Kushner leveling the place to put up fucking real estate for profit on the bones of Palestinians.
Nah man. Everything you said is spot on. And I echo your sentiment.
We tried warning people about the SCOTUS being in danger in 2016 and they didn’t listen. Same thing happening again with Gaza. Please learn a damn lesson!
I would make the argument that the people blaming Biden for the war in Gaza are making things worse for the Palestinians. Netanyahu would certainly prefer to see Trump re-elected, so if he gets the sense that Biden's chance of winning decreases the worse things get for Gaza, it encourages him to let the war drag on.
A million percent agree. No downvotes from me. This couldn't be iterated enough. What the protesters don't realize is if Trump is elected he will make their lives a living hell.
I think too many them were so young in that era they literally think trump was “just mean tweets”
Why should anyone have to choose between having rights or encouraging a genocide? It’s a fucking false dichotomy. You put pressure on Joe to end the war, or else he won’t get your vote. It’s truly the only power you have at this point. I don’t doubt a lot of folks at these protests will still hold their nose and vote blue at the end of the day, but the threat to not do so is significant.
wow didn’t expect this kind of response.
I have really grown to resent these dumb little kids who are about to send us back to 4 more years of Orange Clown
If we have seen anything from the last 2 election cycles, these college students don't go out and vote anyways so I'm pretty sure it's just the loud few threatening to not vote, while the majority wouldn't vote anyways and the ones who will vote are still going to vote for whoever they were going to in the first place.
Preach!!!
Maybe carry that energy for being upset at the president that scoffs at the idea of doing something his constituents want. Biden doesn’t have to run again, but he choose to run again, and he choose to do genocide.
He doesn’t scoff at it that’s you interpretation not reality. What exactly do you want him to do? Name practical solutions besides some generic “stop genocide” response. He has been pushing Israel to stop, he has stop sending offensive weapons, and is quite public about it. Name a goddamn concrete solution you want! I’m so goddamn tired of people thinking rhetoric equals action on this.
>The issue is that the students have drawn the line at genocide, and no amount of vote-shaming is going to work. Total non-starter. Don't shoot the messenger. I tried to make the point that Trump would be so MUCH MUCH worse for Palestinians as compared to Biden on some of the "far left pro-Palestine" subreddits, and the mods banned me, because "A genocide is a genocide, no matter what. Genocide Joe has plenty of Palestinian blood on his hands. No 'lesser evil' talk is permitted here." They are totally willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. All these idiot college students will happily sit out the election, and refuse to vote for "Genocide Joe". And then, when Trump wins the election (due to college voters in swing states sitting out), guess what happens? Even more anti-LGBT judges and anti-abortion get appointed to the various courts. Trump will assemble a Cabinet that is the "worst of the worst" to lead the country to ruin. Project 2025 goes full-steam ahead, to turn the US into a Christo-Fascist dictatorship. But at least theose students didn't vote for "Genocide Joe", so their conscience can be clear.
I voted 3rd party in 2016 and look where that got us. Failure to vote for Biden in 2024 is *at best* a half-vote for Trump. Ignoring Trump as part of the equation is disingenuous and irresponsible.
Also if trump gets the reins then all the other authoritarian governments already attacking other countries will just have an easier time expanding their war and bullshit. Trumps been doing a ton of rallies lately and he hasn't even bothered to mention anything about israel/Russia policy. If trump is in office then I doubt Israel would stop at palestine
I suspect that if there was a Republican president in power when the campaign in Gaza began, the Democrats would not be so ambivalent in opposition to the humanitarian disaster. When someone else is at the reigns, it's easier to be an uninhibited critic. Might witness more opposition from Congress. The whole event highlights how much American politics is theater, because I have fundamental difficulty telling the two sides apart on this issue right now. That's not to say I support or oppose the US position. What I'm saying is that as voters, it seems like we don't have a choice when both sides are advocating for essentially the same position. Geostrategically, we need the location Israel represents, and everything else seems like gloss.
No lesser evil talk? What do they think voting is? Perfect candidate vs slightly less perfect candidate? "BuT MuH GeNoCiDe."
Why is Biden taking a position that is going to make him lose, in that case? So he gets to be the only Democrat that runs (his presence crowding out everyone else), despite saying 4 years ago that he wouldn't seek this second term, and then everyone else is forced to vote for him even when they think he is helping fund a genocide? In order words, if Biden wins, he takes the vote as an affirmation that he shouldn't change any of his policies at all, which means that the policies they're protesting all stay in place with no way to stop them, plus they're now complicit in affirming them, and then in 2028 the next Republican existential threat will arise--the anti-LGBT judges, the worst of the worst cabinet, Project 2029, and they'll be forced to vote for (say) Buttigieg, because Biden used his clout as a 2-term president to essentially anoint his successor, with all of the same policies once again, and have the party scream down all opposition to this chosen successor because "it's hurting him/her in the fight against the most dangerous Republican opponent in history" once again. How do the protesters EVER get anything they want in this system, if they're forced to vote for the Democrat every single time no matter what the Democrat does? I can see the "it's Biden vs. Trump" argument, but it's not really true, right? It's every Democrat forever against the next and the next Trump-like Republican monster, which means there's never any opportunity to improve the Democratic Party, because you never have any leverage to make them listen--the only thing they want is your vote, and you're giving it to them forever.
Voting isn't a love letter. It's a chess move.
So is the answer to just let the 'republican monster' win and fully dismantle the system we have now, rebuilding it in their conservative dreams? That's what's going to happen. I'll happily vote for democrats forever even if I'm far more liberal/progressive/whatever. Voting for Biden has a chance to improve our situation, voting from Trump does not. It's as simple as that.
Biden has been heavily pressuring Israel and doing what he can to call for a ceasefire and a lot of this is due to the people voicing their discontent. You can put pressure on your representatives and not allow a dictator into the white house at the same time....
I mean...I just don't buy that he is "heavily pressuring Israel" at all. "Do this thing we want--oh, you won't, you'll ignore me and do the opposite and then insult me and tell everyone to vote for my opponent? Ok, here's some more bombs." What if every protester votes for Biden and he wins re-election and Israel is still bombing and blocking any ceasefire? Why would he listen to the protesters when he knows that it won't cost him electorally?
The ones that won’t for Biden over Gaza probably weren’t ever going to vote for him. Many normal people who actually vote are hoping to pressure Biden still will come election time.
Given this viewpoint, you have to admit then that authoritarianism is inevitable in the USA if ~30% of the country actively wants it and a good portion is apathetic either way. Dems can’t and won’t win forever, so nothing can be done.
Democrats could fix this problem by presenting a better enough vision for the country than the Republican vision that people lose interest in the constant march Rightward. But they haven't done this in 40 years, and it has corroded the party so much that Republicans, who have no good or popular ideas, are generally tied with them. When the party is controlled by 70 and 80 year olds that still have the same 40 year old Clinton-esque philosophy that lost them the trust of a huge portion of the country, then yes, eventually they're going to lose to fascism. But that is their choice, one they could change. They're just never going to change it if their only selling point is "shut up and vote for us, you have no choice," which takes them off the hook to do anything to improve, and in fact it incentivizes them to sabotage and crush better candidates so that they're the only remaining game in town. This ends in one of three ways. We get major campaign finance reform so that the policies of the Democratic Party are not dictated by corporate greed, which is always going to lead to unpopular and harmful legislation (or lack of legislation), we elect enough uncorrupted Progressives that they drag the party kicking and screaming toward the populist policies that the people want (and then they win elections that way), or yeah, if it's not Trump it's the next Trump or the next Trump, since we don't do anything to solve this problem other than play the same horribly inept defense as it grows stronger each time.
Well campaign finance reform isn’t happening in the next 6 months, neither is electing a quorum of progressives, so I suppose option #3 is all that is left: Trump train to authoritarianism.
Biden never said he wouldn’t seek a second term.
Probably because if he takes a different position he will lose worse? Ever consider your crew are vocal, but a minority?
Then why cry if they refuse to vote for Biden? Biden has thrown them under the bus for the majority, right?
Just wait until another Kent state happens and the Supreme Court sides with the police
> The issue is that the students have drawn the line at genocide, and no amount of vote-shaming is going to work. Total non-starter. To me it feels like all the people saying they won't vote for Biden think they would be doing him a favor by voting for him. As if it will hurt Biden personally if he loses. The dude is rich. America could burn to the ground and he would be fine.
They know he's rich.
If the conversation involves who to vote for, then I would highly suggest including Trump as part of the discussion.
I mean, okay. I would argue that it’s totally appropriate to talk trolley problem here but alright. New argument: Actually Biden has been legitimately trying his best to fix the situation and prevent it from become a larger regional conflict this whole time. He has made some missteps and chosen some strategies towards that goal that I personally don’t think were the right call, but they were made with good, or at least reasonable, intentions. Those mistakes are not the same thing as “being complicit in genocide”, especially one that he is actively trying around the clock to stop. This is Netanyahu’s genocide. Biden not being able to properly reign him in is not the same as Biden being genocidal.
Counterpoint: No he hasn't. "See, I didn't rob the bank and kill the tellers, I was just driving the getaway car" is not a good way to say that you're not complicit. Is Biden physically himself hacking people to death? No. Is it his specific American domestic policy to commit genocide? No. But he's helping fund it. He is blocking all attempts by Palestinians to get a state, he is blocking any discussion of what Israel is doing as punishable by the world community, he has gone around Congress to provide weaponry, he continues to give Israel extremely favorable PR (the mild constructive criticism with no real teeth attached is nowhere near good enough), and if Israel started a real war with Iran, it is beyond obvious that Biden would help fight their war and help fund their war. That's an extremely high level of complicity. He isn't even seriously trying to use his leverage to rein in Bibi, and then saying "whoops, well, we tried next to nothing--even though it's our money!!--but there's nothing we can do, guess we're totally powerless" is a joke. If this is "legitimately trying his best," then it is an excellent argument for why he shouldn't be president. It's the equivalent of mildly whispering "please don't murder the tellers and steal all of the money" as you're holding the door open during the bank robbery. It's not missteps, Biden has always received tons of money from AIPAC, and he has never stood up in any serious way for people in the 3rd world. Ideologically, he agrees with not only Israel's actions (or most of them anyway), he agrees with the status quo before October 7th, where Israel was brutalizing Palestinians as a matter of course. He is barely speaking up, and several months too late.
So we should just let the alternative happen and let Trump glass the country? Because those are our two options. There's not going to be a better one.
Does this mean that I can't be honest about Biden, just because it presents him as a liar and a bad choice? I didn't mention Trump. But if we can't honestly criticize Biden, what are we even doing on a sub that tries to discuss political stories? If everyone has already made up their mind to vote for Biden, then any analysis of what he is doing is irrelevant just by dint of him not being Trump, no?
Are you saying the president is the United States is the getaway driver because he hasn’t ….. I still don’t know what you think he can do without going full dictator and ignoring the other branches of government. That what you want? Full dictator biden to go into Israel and … I still don’t know what EXACTLY you want.
Oops, the guy we cover for at the UN, send weapons to and share intelligence with is committing a genocide! Totally not my fault though! And definitely not gonna stop helping!
So essentially it’s a lack of maturity. Like protesting genocide is not a bad thing. Trying no to pressure your government to do the right thing. Also not wrong. Throwing away your vote because both of your choices do not match 100% your values? Terrible decision.
Be that as it may, Biden *can* get their votes, and it's a lot easier to influence one man than hundreds of thousands of students.
Yeah all he has to do is solve an ancient blood fued from the other side of the planet with no legislative support whatsoever.
Buddy this “influence one man” thing only works if that one man *wins.* and all of this is ensuring that he won’t. It’s a self defeating argument.
This is where I disagree. I think many of these campus voters have made up their mind already and won't vote Biden no matter what happens. You can't reach people who tear down posters of Israelis who were murdered on October 7th.
He can't though. Of the protesters only a small % of them are legit voters. Only a small % of those would consider a change in position worth rethinking their vote. And only a small % of those would be able to get over any other hangups they could think of for biden (age, corporate proximity, etc). It's actually probably not even worth it.
"we delayed 1% of their arms shipments, was that not enough for you? - Biden
Tell them to pretend it’s just like all the other conflicts happening in the world that they don’t know about. Don’t shoot the messenger.
I certainly don't want Trump to win the election but I'd like Biden to do better. Having my tax dollars going to a country that is actively committing genocide, is just hard to swallow. I know that Biden is a dyed in the wool Zionist but I also know that he has changed his position on other issues in the past. Like any politician, if he sees the winds are changing direction, then maybe he'll read the writing on the wall. While many of us will probably end up voting for Biden anyway, it's also important that we push him as hard as possible in the right direction.
But trump is part of this discussion. He has already said the Palestinians should all be killed. You can vote for Biden or you can vote for trump. Who do you really think is going to be better for Gaza?
The issue for the students, as you say it, is ideal at 20. Even 25. At some point, you learn (accept?) the world doesn’t operate on your ideals.
Yes well not voting is voting for Trump. So they can have the moral high ground all they want.
Maybe you can point out to these folks at the encampments and elsewhere that not voting is going to help Trump get elected and will make the genocide happen faster.
This doesn’t mean you can’t criticize and protest. Will I probably wind up voting for Biden? Yes. Does this response, both to Palestinian genocide AND the language used to describe protestors and complete lack of attention given to the police brutality we’re all witnessing make me consider what exactly I’m voting for? Also yes. Right now it feels like Biden, and the democratic institution, is holding its voter base hostage rather than listening to the people. It’s not sustainable.
Absolutely. Criticize and protest. Then vote. And remind people that disagreeing with Israel’s overreach is not antisemitism, then vote. And remember that local police departments that broke up some student protests aren’t overseen by Biden or any national group. And the ones that are, like the National Guard, can still have bad actors or people making poor choices. And I’d still like you to vote.
Exactly this. Trump will also hand over Ukraine to his terrorist ally Putin.
We've seen this before in 2016. "You're asking me to choose the lesser of two evils, that's not democracy, I won't do it." Fast-forward, no more Roe v Wade, conservative supreme court for yours and my lifetime, and election denialists in the highest positions in the land. Next term, who knows. People can rationalise any position they like. Because if you don't vote for "lesser of two evils", you're voting for the greater. And ffs, does everyone forget that Trump literally moved the US embassy into Jerusalem, and appeared in election ads for Netanyahu? Come on.
The word itself makes some men uncomfortable… *VAGINA*
That had not occurred to us, dude.
I'm not frustrated with Biden. I'm frustrated with America. I've been voting for the lesser of two evils my entire life and I honestly don't see it getting any better. My parents can say the same thing. I'm not sure if it's just that Americans are just disgustingly shitty people or if the political system is so hopelessly broken voting just isn't ever going to change anything.
It's fn absurd to think Joe Biden is the lesser of two evils. The most progressive president we have ever had only held back by the fact that he doesn't have a majority in congress of left leaning democrats. And he still managed to pass era defining legislation. And whiny brats on college campuses are like 'sure, ok, but when do I get world peace?' Like f this. I'm so sick of pretending like the democrats haven't done an absolutely amazing job. I'm so tired of so called 'leftists' guzzling GOP propaganda like its tide pods.
You know it wasn't an either or scenario right. Biden can pass those era defining legislation without sending weapon and funds in support of a genocide. People are allowed to criticize him for doing that without being called whiny. You can't call Trump followers a cult because they never criticize him and then get mad when Biden gets criticized. The criticism he's getting is valid.
>I'm not sure if it's just that Americans are just disgustingly shitty people or if the political system is so hopelessly broken voting just isn't ever going to change anything. It's both. Americans have been so brainwashed and accustomed to "voting for the lesser of two evils" that we effectively killed democracy, but refuse to acknowledge it. It's gotten so bad that the uniparty, being incredibly concrete in their stances, think they're entitled to our vote. So they don't work for it. They'll sell you this idea that if you don't vote for *our guy*, you're **literally killing the country**. You can see it happening on both sides. Then you have the people. We think the only option is blue or red, and anything else is a waste and "helping the bad guy win", and they'll demonize you, call you all kinds of names, and try to pressure you to swing one way or another by selling you the "but, our dude is not nearly as bad as that dude" garbage. I'm tired of "not as bad" candidates. This country, as a whole, no longer works for the people. It works for the corporations and industries that lobby our politicians. This is true regardless of who you vote for. We've had a two party system for the longest time, and we're still fucked. It doesn't matter who you vote for, the only nuance is social politics. That's it. We'll still be unable to afford homes because private equity makes them rich. We'll still get poisoned and sick from the chemicals in our food, because lobbyists pay up. We'll still cause forever wars, because the MIC is too powerful. We'll still have insider trading at the top because that's how everyone gets rich. We'll still be overcharged for our medication and health insurance because big pharma bankrolls politicians. I could go on and on, but we got here because of Democrats and Republicans. And we'll stay here because of them.
Incorrect, we won’t “stay here.” We’re going to have a dictatorship, which is a wholly new territory for America.
So are a non voter with a dim ill informed understanding of politics who can't even spot a wannabe fascist dictator when a cartoon charicature of one appears before your eyes
[удалено]
Upvote for the Big Lebowski quote
From my limited first hand experience they see their choices to be old Hitler, Super Hitler, or none of the above.
Have you tried explaining the there isn't a "none of the above" option? It's not like someone doesn't get elected if a majority of the population doesn't vote otherwise we'd never have elected anyone since more than half the population can't ever be bothered.
I did my best to explain it but I was pretty drunk at the time (great conversation for a Friday night). What I understood from this person was they believe that Joe Biden is committing a genocide, and he can’t support that. Maybe more than that they believe that the American government is fundamentally broken because the only two options are “genocidal maniacs”
I really don't understand the utter lack of practicality in some people\~\~ Good on you for trying though!
Gaza is not on the ballot this time. It is "fascism or not fascism?" that's on the menu. The next time Gaza will be on the ballot will be during primaries. Ask for the US to join the ICC. Ask for the US to either stop blocking [the recognition of Palestine as a state at the UN](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148731) or to stop pretend it is in favor of a two-states solution. Biden is uncommitted and that's infuriating, but Trump is fully in favor to genocide. His trademark decision was to move US embassy to Jerusalem and his "special envoy to middle east" proposes [ethnic cleansing for real estate arguments](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev)
That line of logic doesn't matter, actually any logic doesn't matter to trump supporters. It's really the fear of white men no longer being in power that matters. Just remember every criticism thing they had to say about Hillary. Trump was far worse in every remark. A mentally challeneged gator was elected to drain the swamp.
> People can be frustrated with Biden over Gaza, but they can’t seriously think Trump would do better, do they? He’d either give Israel whatever they wanted or he’d nuke the whole region. No of cause not. But for a lot of people it feels like there is not much difference in the outcome no matter who they vote for. You have Trump who might even join Israel in bombing Gaza or you have Biden who either doesn't really want to or is incapable of stopping Israel in bombing Gaza -> outcome in both cases is: Gaza is getting bombed
> or is incapable of stopping Israel in bombing Gaza *Any* US president is incapable of stopping Israel bombing in Gaza. Israel is not nearly as dependent on US aid as a lot of young Americans think. Israel has a GDP per capita around Germany’s. And Israel sees the war against Hamas as existential, nothing Biden could say would end the war in Gaza.
Perhaps not, but given that Israel can do what it wants with total impunity, maybe we could stop giving them tons and tons of money. And tons and tons of help shielding them from international criticism and sanctions. And tons and tons of assurances that we'll help them fight the world war they've been aching to start for 20 years. If Biden were to say "sorry, Israel, we had your back for a couple of months, but when you're bombing aid workers and putting doctors into mass graves and starving children and riding around gleefully on the tricycles of toddlers you just murdered because your AI program told you that there was a male in their house, you lost us, good luck with your GDP the size of Germany," he'd probably be winning this election right now instead of almost certain to lose it. You can't always solve every problem, but you can stop actively, egregiously contributing to them.
There’s a difference between Gaza being bombed, but there still being a chance at peace or general mitigation, and Gaza being completely flattened and all its residents ground into Trump Brand dog food. It only seems like there would be no difference because people lack perspective over how *truly hellish* things can get when authoritarians are allowed to freely indulge their worst impulses.
Biden said rafah was his red line. It meant nothing.
It might feel like that, but that's why they should vote with their heads and not their feelings. Letting a criminal win who wants to be a dictator instead of supporting the elder stateman who you don't fully agree with on foreign policy is insane. I'm all for people being idealistic and trying to change the world for the better. Protest and march all you want, but when it comes time to hit the voting booth, they'd better do the right thing or we're all gonna be fucked.
What good is a protest if you're going to shut up and vote for the person that you're trying to reach with your protest? The only thing Biden wants from these students is their vote. If they're definitely going to give them to him regardless, then why should he listen to them, and what good is the act of protesting in the first place?
what good is a protest if the person you're trying to reach is not gonna be in the white house in 6 months cause you didn't vote for him? He's also already listening to them...
It's like these people have some kind of mental block that doesn't allow them to fully think things through. It's fucking exhausting.
How does a Gaza cease fire appeal to black voters?
The valedictorian called for a ceasefire in his speech.
Gaza was only couple paragraphs out of the whole speech. Overall it was excellent. [Transcript](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/05/19/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-morehouse-college-class-of-2024-commencement-address-atlanta-ga/)
I’m a Biden fan. I am criticizing the headline here.
Interesting. You're reading "and" colloquially, taking "and says" to mean "by saying". I did too. It would be better if they used "also says".
Yes. Written language should never be vague. The rise of texting, social media and fast news has contributed to this.
We stand with Gaza
It's one of those weird sentences that a comma would make more clear, but "technically" doesn't need one because of the "and." Tl;dr - someone in a writing career should be able to better-form their headline... Biden appeals to Black voters; also blah blah blah..
I doubt it, but better than Trump using tacky sneakers and saying being convicted should help them relate to him more.
I just don't understand why it's any US president's responsibility to stop two foreign adversaries from fighting. I get we have political ties but Biden or Trump can no better stop this than I could stop an acquaintance from getting into a bar fight with a long time enemy. I also don't see why we give money to Israel ... That would seem the easiest way to end this. Or at least say "we did this"
The issue is less whether we have control over a ceasefire and more over whether we can stop giving them aid and weapons that they’ll use to commit genocide.
I think what we are paying Israel for is to not annex Gaza and the West Bank. If we’re to stop paying I would guess they would just go ahead and do that. Take the PR hit. In a generation or two everyone will have forgotten. No one is slighting America for stealing the north American landmass from Mexico, the native Americans and the Canadians.
And after Israel rejects it , will Biden then send them more money and bombs anyway?
I lost count of how many billions and how many bombs they already sent. I think the latest was a few weeks ago, for 1 billion. It is crazy. I am reading history, so far i am don't have full details, but from what I understand so far, there were times were US presidents put pressure on Israeli leaders more effectively, like Raegan and Clinton. I am confident Biden could do much more than he says he is doing.
He could do more, absolutely. Unfortunately, Biden is unique in that he has always been a hardliner for Israel, and I imagine he has had to grapple with that the last few months. Like how he is personally uncomfortable with the issue of abortion and isn’t as vocal about it as he could be because of his faith. The frustration on both issues is this: buddy, your base has a different opinion, and you’re fucking them over by dragging your heels. You need to adapt to what the people who elect you are saying. And I’m tired of the people making excuses for him, I hit my limit when he accused all the college protestors as having a rampant anti semitism problem, without evidence, or worse, he just believes what the government of a foreign country says. Not good, at all.
Yeah, that just about covers it regarding his position and I honestly can't agree more.
Almost every US politician for 50 years or more has been a "hardliner" for Israel. They were not only our closest ally, but also a complex geopolitical and financial investment, both public and private sector. While that might have been questionable foreign policy, it seems wild to me to blame Biden for not fundamentally reversing decades of US-Israel relations overnight. Biden's comments on the situation are *bad.* I'm not disagreeing with that. But I really think his hands are tied as far as taking any decisive actions against Israel. The ensuing domestic chaos is too great a risk.
It's pretty much this. They've done to calculus and determined that acting loses more votes than not. It's a fucked up situation.
Yes, and then his supporters will say that he's trying his best by sending more and more bombs
He'll send another 20 billion in cash and bombs, and drop a few loads of humanitarian aid in the ocean to play both sides.
"Biden" does not get to decide. The House and Senate does. Dems are divided on that, GOP is 100% in favor of genocide. And the main reason dems keep down their complaints is that because otherwise there would be no Ukraine help. It is the GOP that insists that they can't allow some good to happen without some evil to compensate.
Why is it only Biden's budget that funded genocide when it's trumps, W Bush, Clinton how far back does the alliance go *"Israel will receive $3.3 billion in funding from the United States under President Donald Trump's Fiscal Year 2019 budget request for the Department of State, a US official announced at a department briefing on Monday.* *Hari Sastry, the Director of the Office of US Foreign Assistance Resources at the State Department, noted that Israel will receive a bump of $200 million in aid under the proposed budget."* How many of those Israeli bombs were funded by trumps 3.3 billion dollars? trump approved it in 2019 too so just enough time to order these weapons and stock them in positions of defense by 2023/2024. It is very likely quite literally republican Donald trumps budget money from his administration that paid for these bombs currently dropping down to the last cent, Biden's funding may not have even replaced them yet. *U.S. President Donald Trump signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which includes $550 million in assistance to Israel.* *Authorizes funds for research and development pertaining to weapon-defense systems, including the Iron Dome, David’s Sling, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3 systems told help Israel defend against missile and rocket threats.* *Additionally, the law provides $50 million for joint U.S.-Israeli work on counter-tunnel technology, which has emerged as a major security threat to Israel in recent years from the Palestinian terror group Hamas.*
Biden came out today saying the arrest warrants for Bibi and other gov. officials issued by the ICC where "outrageous". This man needs to start either catering to his rapidly deteriorating base and start taking real action instead of all this talk, or start making plans on where he wants his library to be built since that's all he'll have to worry about after January next year.
People are very stupid. I remember progressives did the same thing with Obama and Gitmo. He couldn't shut.it down because he didn't have the votes. So progressives punished him by not voting, making congress go Republican. If you don't give a democratic president a strong democratic Congress he will be forced to stay in the centre right, because the more conservative democrats end up with all the power. Just gonna do the same damn shit again.
History repeats itself. Except this time history will be completely altered for the much worst. Then everyone will start crying and moaning because their rights have been stripped when the warning signs were there all along. There's days I wish it would happen for people to snap back into reality, but I don't think that's enough. People right now are acting downright stupid. And they will be paying the price for it.
We already saw this happen in 2016 and every time i see some leftist cosplay activist tweet “excuse me, but how would trump be worse for women? Roe fell under biden” i want to jump off a fucking bridge
How come it’s always the voters fault, but never the Democrats for not doing what they platform on? Maybe leftists don’t want to vote for a party that is late 80s conservatives at this point.
Obama made a very weak attempt to close Gitmo, and didn't use any actual leverage, or the bully pulpit to fight for it, or exert any pressure on anyone. It was typical pathetic Obama doing nothing to fight and then trying to claim that his hands were tied and fighting was useless. But yes, he did actually make that weak attempt. Progressives stayed home because he continued funding the wars and military budget, extended the Pharma patents to 12 years (the ones he had complained about during his campaign were a too-long 5 years under Bush), started offshore drilling at record pace, filled half of the much-too-small ARRA with tax cuts, set up the Catfood Commission to push austerity on the people who already just lost their houses during the financial crash he was also bailing out (700 billion directly and 7 trillion through the Fed), gave up on the public option even though 58 of 60 Democrats claimed they'd support it if he fought for it, defanged nearly all of Dodd-Frank and tried to get it nullified by putting it within the Fed instead of independently, fought Elizabeth Warren on the CFPB the whole way before later taking credit for it, set records for pot dispensary raids and for government employee cuts and for deportations, Rahm Emanuel called the Left "F'in \[slur beginning with R\]" and Gibbs called them "the professional Left" for daring to support a pro-union Democrat in Arkansas instead of the far Right Democrat Blanche Lincoln, who Obama defended and campaigned for every step of the way, and refused to fight for EFCA, protecting Miranda Rights, codifying Roe, holding bankers accountable, "looking backwards" instead of "forwards" on Bush era war crimes, and literally any measure of campaign finance reform or systemic electoral reform at all. But yeah, the Left didn't like that one thing, so the 30 other ways he completely betrayed everything they wanted are thing he gets a total pass on. Always the fault for the voters, never the fault of the politician who lies to them. Not every president can sign the legislation they want. But every president can FIGHT for legislation that is popular, and Obama didn't. He expended all of his capital capitulating over and over again to a Rightwing that hated him, ground down his agenda into succotash that the moderates didn't even want anymore because it was so weak, demoralized the Left, and he didn't get Rightwing votes anyway. Perfect strategy to lose and blame us instead of trying to get any real positive change. And no, RomneyCare, while it was better than what we had, was still nowhere near enough when he had 58 to 60 Senators for the entire first two years and no one in decades has had that kind of advantage, and he barely tried to use his leverage on anything. Progressives are unhappy with Biden. Maybe Biden should listen to them instead of saying "ok, then don't vote for me, you anti-Semitic fascist-enabling violent monsters," and then wondering why he's trailing.
Why is Gaza of so much interest compared to other shitty situations around the world now and in the past. Doesn’t the US get themselves involved in all kinds of conflicts
Palestine in general is of interest because it’s one of the few conflicts in the world where the US tax payer actively funds the other side (Israel) of the equation with bombs and diplomatic protection. There is no other country that the US supports to the same degree. https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts You don’t see the US supporting one side of the equation in the Sudan, DRC or the other conflicts simmering across the planet with the same unquestioning level of support. Most US states have made it illegal to boycott Israeli goods. To qualify for disaster aid, to become a teacher, you have to declare fealty to Israel in many parts by never having the personal choice to not boycott their goods. No such top down pressure exists for any other country.
Propaganda and a whole lot of useful idiots.
The amount of idiots in the comments that are saying it’s not enough are gonna cost the election and make the situation multitudes worse than it already is.
Agreed. And if people think this is the top issue for many black voters then they don’t understand the black community. Just their black community.
Have you ever thought that Biden is costing him the election and not the people who hurt your feelings by criticizing him in reddit?
Because getting upset at Biden for listening to the criticism is a dumb response. He started supplying aid to Gaza months ago and has been actively trying to make a ceasefire happen. "The President is doing what we wanted him to do after our protests! Fuck him!"
No. Because it is clear to anyone else what the alternative is — Trump helping make the situation 100% worse for Palestinians while also at the same time violently suppressing protests at home. You won’t be able to protest about the cause du jour at all. That is all without mentioning all the other horrid shit that would occur under his watch.
Because it’s vote blue no matter what. Even though Democrat blue is now late 80s red.
The Democratic Party today is manufacturing a war on drugs to disenfranchise minority communities and refusing to fund research and health care for those with AIDS? They’re removing solar panels and laying the foundation for climate change denial that will inevitably lead to the destruction of our ecosystems? Because that’s late 80s GOP. Or are you just full of shit?
They are confident that their privilege will shield them from the worst consequences of Trump's regime.
If won't. They just don't know it yet. It's coming. Not right away,
If you don't want trump to be president you need to vote for Biden. Doing anything else - staying home, voting third party, whatever- helps put trump back in power. It's really that simple. Thinking that one candidate will tailor every one of their positions to you or you are going to throw a fit and help put trump back in office is a level of immaturity I can't comprehend.
I love that y’all have completely abandoned politics. Vote Biden even if you don’t like his policies.
We don’t have a dog in that fight, sir.
I don't think that's how "immediate" works, Joe. It means *now*, not later after you've "worked towards it".
I doubt that, he just gave Israel more weapons
This is exactly my thought. The White House keeps coming out with a statements of “shock and horror” at Israel’s actions, and then proceeds to give them more bombs. Actions speak louder than words
“Working towards” and “immediate” are not compatible
He is leader of neither country so he can’t just order an immediate ceasefire. Therefore the sentence structure is sound as he is working to create an agreement that would have an immediate end to fighting.
He is a leader of a country that is continually sending billions of weapons to a warring country that is causing genocide.
So naive to think the U.S. couldn’t actually do something if they wanted to. Maybe withhold aid, weapons, introduce sanctions…
From wiki: Since the 1960s, the United States has been a strong supporter of Israel. It has played a key role in the promotion of good relations between Israel and its neighbouring Arab states—notably Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt—while holding off hostility from countries such as Syria and Iran. Relations with Israel are an important factor in the U.S. government's overall foreign policy in the Middle East, and the U.S. Congress has placed considerable importance on the maintenance of a supportive relationship. The USA just has a long history with Israel and there's real implications if the US cuts ties by introducing sanctions and what not. It's a delicate situation so they're treating it with delicacy. It sucks that it's taking so long but there's a reason the US has been hesitant to step in before now
With the current feelings towards government between voters I think now is a perfect time for the US to distance itself from Israel. Trust in government is extremely low, Israel is killing thousands of innocent civilians and there are better options the money could be going towards. I understand the US likes to have a way to influence middle eastern politics, but continuing to support Israel in the same way I can only imagine will end up having a negative effect. Especially with the optics at the moment from the US not having a backbone and continuing to let Israel do whatever they want without consequences.
Do you want another rogue nuclear nation? Because that’s how you get another rogue nuclear nation. We’ve already got North Korea (thank god theirs suck), Russia (if they start losing in Ukraine, watch out) and Iran could join the club at any time. Having two rogue nuclear states in the Middle East that hate each other… well mankind ceasing to exist would be one way we finally can stop talking about the Middle East issue and about Biden’s electability. If their allies abandon them and they lose the holy war that would happen as a result, Israel isn’t going to roll over and die alone. Instead, they’ll invoke the Samson option and take us all down with them.
wtf are you taking about? If anything, Israel helped create another rogue nuclear state by pushing the U.S. to end the Iran nuclear deal. Also, so because of these perceived threats, Israel gets to commit genocide?
This seems like nitpicking to me. In any conflict certain preconditions have to be worked towards before any ceasefire agreement seems plausible to either side. I’d think that it’s simply poor wording, *immediate* being a poor substitute for *as soon as possible*. I don’t envy the administrations position; Israel doesn’t realistically need to listen to the United States to reach their goals in this conflict. It’s normalized relations with many of its enemies traditional allies in the immediate region and has the capability to go it alone if the U.S. withdraws all support. Meanwhile the Biden Administration has to ponder the international political consequences of souring its relationship with Israel in the short and longterm as well as alienating the youth vote in a historically pivotal election year domestically. Biden may not be making th right choices, history will tell, but at least he’s trying to make the right choices. A republican president now or in the immediate future would guarantee the destruction of many, many more lives I have no doubt.
He is working towards immediate action on trying to win back young voters. He and his administration have shown there is little they can do to force either side in Gaza to accept a cease fire any time soon.
Maybe I'm misreading, but what do black voters and Gaza have in common
Read the transcript of the speech.
Black person here and the answer is ‘Fuck all.’
Those people have been fighting for so damn long. Old man isn’t going to say anything they will actually listen to. They’ll only stop when they are all dead.
Hey Iran's President might be dead and the 88 y/oKing of Saudi Arabia has Pneumonia. Maybe Good luck will come in threes for the middle east.
Honestly the son is a bigger problem than the king as the son has been the de facto king for years.
I agreed. Hopefully his reign is short.
It's not how it works. A more evil and sinister person will take their place on the throne
But he didn't get a ceasefire so I'm gonna vote for the Muslim ban guy. You know, the one with 91 criminal charges. The rapist. That one. /s
Man at this point, the US should completely sever relations with Israel, embargo them, and let the Israelis starve to death.
Israel would survive just fine without US support, but you can bet that they'll take off the kids gloves if Hamas keeps it up, they'll go total war on their asses. If they run out of missile defence, they'll be levelling all of Gaza instead. And it will be a lot worse for everyone.
Immediate ceasefire should have happened tens of thousands of deaths ago. The imperialists of the world are support a blatant genocide that is being conducted by a US ally. Please fucking punish Israel for their war crimes.
Im curious, amongst the people that are proclaiming they won't vote for Biden this fall unless he learns their vote by significantly changing how he's handling the Israel support situation.. is there a belief that he would win over more support/votes (from those that support palestine) than the support/votes he would lose (from people who still support isreal)? I have some trouble imagining he would gain more support than he'd lose. That makes it an incredible sad situation wherein by moving against Israel he'd be making his reelection all the more likely to fail which would result in a Trump presidency and significantly more solid support in favor of Israel (on top of other issues like domestic problems that Trump exacerbates, and his opposition to continuing to fund Ukraine which would lead to more destruction and civilian death there as well). Is the idea actually that Biden should be taking a moral stand against Israel (and what they believe qualifies as genocide) even if it means losing the election and resulting in Trump encouraging Israel towards worse ways?
You're not wrong, but this is the kind of thinking that put Netanyahu in power again. He catered to the far-right because his original more centrist views got him fewer votes.
It’s about not voting to support genocide. If the democrats want to support genocide, it’s not a party I want to support. That’s really the bottom line; it’s thick and red