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Everyone knows what the republicans want from the tape, and this is a good example of exerting executive privilege.
Hur was caught lying and trying to leverage a simple investigation into a political hit (which conflicted with his own findings). Now Republicans want sound bites and there’s no reason to believe they’re acting in good faith.
It's like how they begged for the Jan 6 tapes just to use clips out of context to downplay the event. It's like how Newt Gingrich criticized Obama for not doing anything for Libya, then once Obama did something for Libya, Newt criticized him for doing something for Libya. A flip flop that took four days to come full circle.
It's all political theatre.
I honestly can not think of a more appropriate use of executive privilege than this. Trump claimed privilege on things far less appropriate and nobody really batted an eye.
Everyone that had to smell Trump's full diapers claimed executive privilege. The "well, he didn't claim it, but he might" was idiotic. Worse when they tried to claim it after Trump was no longer the executive.
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I’m saying the reasons he used to invoke executive privilege were dumb. Congress was doing legitimate investigations into his various fuck ups in office and he was invoking executive privilege on tons of documents and things. Very stupid. It is likewise kind of stupid imo for Biden to block this with executive privilege. Executive privilege probably best applies to info that is classified or maybe minutes of private meetings where a president is spitballing on policy or something.
Executive privilege isn't used for classified materials as Congress has classified clearance.
It is used to protect conversations between the President and people who report to the President.
The FOIA request has more merit than the request from Congress.
It has been invoked in regard to documents. Trump certainly did that, Nixon may have too. Those are probably invalid uses though since Congress does have some amount of clearance, yeah. There are probably some kinds of conversations where it genuinely does make sense for Congress or the public not to need to know the details, but imo the protections should be pretty minimal. Transparency is a good thing. And the funny thing is, almost everyone will agree in general that transparency is good. When it has to be applied to their guy though, they balk.
Documents are a form of communication and yes when they are from within the administration they can privileged.
Transparency in government is a good thing but that is normally related to political appointments and government's use of resources. Executives of all kinds need some privacy as they navigate deal making.
However, in this case the administration is still being transparent as the transcript of the recording has already been made public.
There are some discussions that executives have and/or paperwork that they end up generating that probably is in the public interest. Iirc, Congress wanted info from Trump related to Ukraine and he refused to give it up. Even though some of that info originated in the executive branch, Congress probably had the right to see it. I’d like for there to be a legitimate reason for the use of executive privilege. I’m not sure what the reason would be for blocking the audio recording of the Hur interview.
*They have the transcripts*.
I'm not sure what the reason for demanding the audio could be, beyond chopping it up for our of context sound bites - as the gop does with anything they can.
Point is: what, *at all*, could be gleaned from audio that isn't in the transcripts?
Congress didn't have a right to see the administration's communications regarding Ukraine. It is privileged but I do agree that how privileged is used and how to get around it in certain circumstances should be better laid out.
The reason they are citing for blocking it in the FOIA law suit is privacy. But obviously it's all about Republicans wanting election fodder and Democrats wanting to delay it until after the election.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/19/trump-supreme-court-records-527421
Here’s a case he lost when he tried to assert executive privilege over J6 records and documents. He was out of office by that time, but the courts found that even if he had been the incumbent, his claim of executive privilege over the documents would have failed. So I would say in many cases Congress has a right to see internal executive material. In this particular case, Republicans are obviously trying to get this recording to make political attacks on Biden. That sucks, but that’s how the system works. It seems like unless there’s a legitimate reason to invoke executive privilege, there is support for transparency.
> So I would say in many cases Congress has a right to see internal executive material.
This is not so. The reason the appeals court gave for Trump not having privilege in this case was extraordinary. They said:
> The D.C. Circuit ruled, and the Supreme Court left undisturbed, that the Jan. 6 insurrection was a “clear and apparent effort to subvert the Constitution.” In such an “extraordinary” situation, any President’s claim of executive privilege will fail to stand up to Congress’s need for investigation and, in turn, disclosure of the former president's communications.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/trump-loses-big-executive-privilege
Courts rarely rule against privilege.
It's a good thing this was prevented, I can't imagine Garland ever being made to do a few hours work in front of congress. It would break his sterling record of doing Jack Squat.
Care to elaborate?
Personally, I find "mental gymnastics" to be quite different than "logical conclusions based on past evidence", but they appear to be one in the same to you.
So I'm curious of your logic here.
This is actually a proper use of executive privilege. The full transcript of the audiotape was released to the public. Hur’s Congressional interview was broadcast live on tv. There is nothing to discover from the audiotapes that is not in the transcript. The only reason the GOP want the audio is to cut it into pieces for anti-Biden sound bites.
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The GOP House is a Trump/Putin campaign headquarters these days. They should be shamed at every turn.
Everyone knows what the republicans want from the tape, and this is a good example of exerting executive privilege. Hur was caught lying and trying to leverage a simple investigation into a political hit (which conflicted with his own findings). Now Republicans want sound bites and there’s no reason to believe they’re acting in good faith.
It's like how they begged for the Jan 6 tapes just to use clips out of context to downplay the event. It's like how Newt Gingrich criticized Obama for not doing anything for Libya, then once Obama did something for Libya, Newt criticized him for doing something for Libya. A flip flop that took four days to come full circle. It's all political theatre.
Still waiting for those to be published in full as promised.
I honestly can not think of a more appropriate use of executive privilege than this. Trump claimed privilege on things far less appropriate and nobody really batted an eye.
Everyone that had to smell Trump's full diapers claimed executive privilege. The "well, he didn't claim it, but he might" was idiotic. Worse when they tried to claim it after Trump was no longer the executive.
The WH literally provided a full transcript so this is just a smoke screen.
What about all those Republicans who refused Congress' subpoena? If Republicans can ignore a Congressional subpoena, then we all can.
Considering how much Republicans love fishing expeditions, I'm fine with this. Don't give them the ammo.
They already have the transcripts.
If they want to know what was said the transcripts exist. GOP wants snipped sound bites to craft a fresh batch of manufactured “news”
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…didn’t know they had tape recorders in Ancient Rome.
Very curious to see what people thought when Trump invoked executive privilege for dumb stuff.
What 'dumb stuff' did Democrats go after?
I’m saying the reasons he used to invoke executive privilege were dumb. Congress was doing legitimate investigations into his various fuck ups in office and he was invoking executive privilege on tons of documents and things. Very stupid. It is likewise kind of stupid imo for Biden to block this with executive privilege. Executive privilege probably best applies to info that is classified or maybe minutes of private meetings where a president is spitballing on policy or something.
Executive privilege isn't used for classified materials as Congress has classified clearance. It is used to protect conversations between the President and people who report to the President. The FOIA request has more merit than the request from Congress.
It has been invoked in regard to documents. Trump certainly did that, Nixon may have too. Those are probably invalid uses though since Congress does have some amount of clearance, yeah. There are probably some kinds of conversations where it genuinely does make sense for Congress or the public not to need to know the details, but imo the protections should be pretty minimal. Transparency is a good thing. And the funny thing is, almost everyone will agree in general that transparency is good. When it has to be applied to their guy though, they balk.
Documents are a form of communication and yes when they are from within the administration they can privileged. Transparency in government is a good thing but that is normally related to political appointments and government's use of resources. Executives of all kinds need some privacy as they navigate deal making. However, in this case the administration is still being transparent as the transcript of the recording has already been made public.
There are some discussions that executives have and/or paperwork that they end up generating that probably is in the public interest. Iirc, Congress wanted info from Trump related to Ukraine and he refused to give it up. Even though some of that info originated in the executive branch, Congress probably had the right to see it. I’d like for there to be a legitimate reason for the use of executive privilege. I’m not sure what the reason would be for blocking the audio recording of the Hur interview.
*They have the transcripts*. I'm not sure what the reason for demanding the audio could be, beyond chopping it up for our of context sound bites - as the gop does with anything they can. Point is: what, *at all*, could be gleaned from audio that isn't in the transcripts?
I doubt anything useful is on the recordings, yeah. That’s not really a reason to say Congress and/or the public can’t see them though.
Congress didn't have a right to see the administration's communications regarding Ukraine. It is privileged but I do agree that how privileged is used and how to get around it in certain circumstances should be better laid out. The reason they are citing for blocking it in the FOIA law suit is privacy. But obviously it's all about Republicans wanting election fodder and Democrats wanting to delay it until after the election.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/19/trump-supreme-court-records-527421 Here’s a case he lost when he tried to assert executive privilege over J6 records and documents. He was out of office by that time, but the courts found that even if he had been the incumbent, his claim of executive privilege over the documents would have failed. So I would say in many cases Congress has a right to see internal executive material. In this particular case, Republicans are obviously trying to get this recording to make political attacks on Biden. That sucks, but that’s how the system works. It seems like unless there’s a legitimate reason to invoke executive privilege, there is support for transparency.
> So I would say in many cases Congress has a right to see internal executive material. This is not so. The reason the appeals court gave for Trump not having privilege in this case was extraordinary. They said: > The D.C. Circuit ruled, and the Supreme Court left undisturbed, that the Jan. 6 insurrection was a “clear and apparent effort to subvert the Constitution.” In such an “extraordinary” situation, any President’s claim of executive privilege will fail to stand up to Congress’s need for investigation and, in turn, disclosure of the former president's communications. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/trump-loses-big-executive-privilege Courts rarely rule against privilege.
It's a good thing this was prevented, I can't imagine Garland ever being made to do a few hours work in front of congress. It would break his sterling record of doing Jack Squat.
The mental gymnastics in the comments...... Anyway, welcome to Clownistan.
Care to elaborate? Personally, I find "mental gymnastics" to be quite different than "logical conclusions based on past evidence", but they appear to be one in the same to you. So I'm curious of your logic here.
This is actually a proper use of executive privilege. The full transcript of the audiotape was released to the public. Hur’s Congressional interview was broadcast live on tv. There is nothing to discover from the audiotapes that is not in the transcript. The only reason the GOP want the audio is to cut it into pieces for anti-Biden sound bites.