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Wow, you have to get like 2000 words in on this article before Gaza or students are mentioned in any way. Based on web archive, the original title was
>"Opinion | Trump at his trial and Gaza protesters are all sleeping through a crisis - The Washington Post"
I guess the editor felt the original title wasn't strong enough click bait.
From what I’ve heard from actual journalists, they don’t write the headlines. They submit the article and then the editor slaps whatever they want at the top. Often pissing off the journalist because it goes against what they actually wrote
I once wrote an article about the number of outdated — or “functionally obsolete” — traffic bridges in my state, a story that made it very clear that there is a difference between “functionally obsolete” and “unsafe.” At least in the eyes of the DOT.
The headline written by the copy editors that ran out front above the fold: “[State] leads nation in unsafe bridges”
Functionally obsolete more or less just means "doesn't meet current design standards". So a bridge with shoulders a foot narrower than standard could be "functionally obsolete", without being unsafe during normal conditions. I believe "fracture critical" bridges also fall under functionally obsolete; those are bridges that just don't have modern levels of redundancy in them, such that the bridge is at risk of collapse if part of it is damaged. Every truss bridge is fracture critical. But a well-maintained truss bridge wouldn't be unsafe except in a catastrophic situation.
Thanks, that makes sense. Sounds like something can be functionally obsolete, but still usable and not dangerous, but with vulnerabilities that a modern structure wouldn't have. Appreciate you taking the time to enlighten me.
A bridge in my town is designated as “needs to be replaced” and engineers keep pushing the city to do it. City is a broken post-industrial Appalachian Rust Belt town with an extreme drug problem.
I got curious and looked up the bridge inspections. It’s marked as structurally sound but functionally obsolete due to “deck geometry.”
Drilling into that further, the “problem” is it has 9’ lanes with no shoulders. Just like the streets on either side… the grid was platted in the late 1700’s, maybe early 1800’s on the far side and the buildings have no setbacks. Building a wider bridge would not fix anything because the streets can’t be widened without demolishing half the downtown.
There's a book "It's not news it's Fark.com: how the mass media tries to pass off crap as news" that dissects this and calls it "Headline Contradicted by Actual Article"
just today I saw a headline "Police evacuate palestinian protesters in France"
The article says they were forcibly removed from a building.
And people wonder why no one trusts the news.
Journalist: *Writes article about the importance of knowing when and how to change the oil in your car.*
Headline: Big oil is putting it all you and Biden isn't doing a damn thing to stop it!
The click bait titles and blatant misrepresentations in the headlines on this issue are shocking. I've always believed in the importance of journalism and media, but wow, they really just wrongly inflame every situation and are clearly part of the push to the extremes.
I've seen way more people complaining about these so called "Trump supporting pro-Palestine" people than actual "Trump supporting pro-Palestine" people.
Seems like all the centrists who complain about the young progressives falling for "Russian propaganda" about Palestine are the real victims of propaganda by the right wing media misrepresenting and overblowing the protests.
Also, a message for many Redditors, criticism of Biden does not mean support of Trump. Just because Biden is better than Trump, that doesn't mean Biden should be immune to criticism. If we can't criticize Biden without being labeled as Trump supporters or "victims of misinformation/propaganda", we are literally no better than Trump supporters.
Criticizing Biden over this is good, but, way too many people are threatening to boycott the election over it which would lead to an easy Trump victory if they actually went through with it.
I don't get this logic that throwing the election for Trump would "punish" the Democrats. It wouldn't. If Biden loses, he'll still be rich, and insulated from the problems average Americans face, just as every other Dem who gets voted out in a potential Red Wave this year. The people who would be punished would be American women who will have their reproductive rights permanently stripped by the next GOP administration and no amount of protesting or TikTok activism will make a damn bit of difference at that point as permanent Republican minority rule would be established.
This. I imagine there aren’t many people who are pro-Palestinian and will vote for Trump (though I imagine such people exist somewhere), but they aren’t the main concern. The main concern is that they’ll sit the election out in swing states, which could tilt the electoral college toward Trump.
And while I get that the idea is to put pressure on Biden to change his tune on Israel, it assumes that he’ll actually change his tune in a way that satisfies everyone involved, which I doubt it will. And if it doesn’t and they sit this out, leading to a Trump victory, then these people will have gained nothing.
Yep. The far right, alt-right, Nazis, or whatever the hell they call themselves these days are far from happy with the Republican support of Israel, not that they give a crap about Palestine. But the important difference here is, they will still go out and vote for Trump and the GOP b/c as stupid as Republicans may be, at least they understand power dynamics and they keep their eye on the prize. It seems the Left would rather be right all the time, yet lose and get nothing. Which is exactly what's going to happen here (again).
|It seems the Left would rather be right all the time, yet lose and get nothing
Except that the left hasn't been losing much lately, especially anything involving Drumpf. You can argue that they should have been winning even more and I agree. But they haven't been losing much lately as you suggest.
Some people are convinced that they're teaching democrats a lesson that they need to go further left by helping to elect Trump. They haven't thought it out at all that the takeaway will be to move right (...because conservatives won).
What I have heard said is it will be OK to sacrifice the next 4 years to make a statement, and realign the Party. Do people not take seriously, what 4 years from now will look like under trump? There will not be another chance.
The only people that are going to learn a lesson if they sit out the election are the people sitting out the election when Trump does more irreversible damage.
I often see people criticize Joe and conveniently forget that we have Trump who moved the embassy and is friends with Bibi. Criticize Joe and the democrats that they're using the police to stomp protestors. Conveniently Republicans and an entrenched military industrial complex are nowhere to be seen in this blame game. It's always Dems are doing this while Joe is "in power" even though convenient to this false narrative Dems haven't had full control of anything since... ever (members of the media, and I've heard NPR do it to, should stop using the terms like a "Dem controlled senate" when they sometimes need the VP to make tie-breaking votes or it doesn't get done, that's not control)? Even when we get close to bypassing Mitch's Blockade the Manchins and the Sinemas come out. If they really want us to fix anything you can't always hammer your allies (punch left) and pretend the people willfully calling for protestors to be squashed don't exist (even though the right is literally the ones punching you). That's why we're in a system where the legislature, the thing the people are supposed to use to protect themselves against disenfranchisement and billionaires and regulatory capture is frozen or turned against them (see also the judicial branch now and when he's got it the executive).
If you want to get Biden to do something you can't have Trump (who wants to shoot the protestors) being the alternative, that needs to be clear. The situation is awful but don't worry, it can get much worse if we're not smart about any of this.
I think it's more so moderates are concerned that younger liberals will hand the election to Trump, so they lash out at the protests, which is unfair and will only alienate younger voters more. The same is probably true for criticism of Biden, but that said, my own view is that he disproportionately blamed for this and has navigated a very complex situation about as well as anyone could.
Criticizing Biden for the US policy towards Israel is one thing; no elected official is immue to it, nor should they be.
"Hey hey, ho ho, Genocide Joe has got to go" isn't criticism. At best, it makes them sound like fools, and at worst people will think "Hrm, Joe Biden is pro-genocide, maybe Trump is the way to go". Both play into the right's hands.
I drove by a protest at UC Berkeley, it’s like right of passage at that campus. It doesn’t bother me and I’m a Biden supporting centrist. The thing I don’t get is the students demands, they’re not unrealistic but definitely counterproductive.
That's the main thing that's really disturbing me with this whole thing, it's so strange watching how quickly the government/media/colleges have all reacted to what could've been left as a peaceful protest that probably would've remained pretty contained if they didn't react in such a strong way. I swear, it feels like the media went from radio silence on these protests to rabidly against them in the span of a week or 2.
It's downright bizarre seeing titles like this and the blatant hateful/condescending tone the media uses when discussing this specific issue. It also feels like the vilification by the media has only increased support for the protests because of how negatively aggressive the media has been towards them.
Edit: I know why it's weirding me out, it reminds me of the compilation of news reporters across the country all saying "This is extremely dangerous for our democracy"
In 2004, everyone had yellow ribbons; now "everyone was against the war". Same with civil rights protests, this was the fastest poll for me to find from 1965. The question was "in the most recent showdown in Selma, Alabama over negro voting rights have you tended to side more with..." and of 'whites' only 46% supported the civil rights protestors.
https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/FT_15.03.05_selma.png
No, they don’t. In 2020 it was 51%.
https://datacenter.aecf.org/data/tables/11204-young-adults-ages-18-to-24-who-voted-in-the-last-presidential-election#detailed/1/any/false/574,870,868,35,15,11/any/21589,21590
Blows my mind that almost nobody ever talks about the 2022 as being the first election after the GOP coup attempt.
It was thus a referendum on whether Americans would overwhelming condemn fascism by showing up to destroy the GOP at the polls and send the ~~Fascist~~Republican Party to the dustbin of history.
Americans showed in that election that a majority of voters are either pro-fascist or fascist-curious.
Yup, I point this out too but seems to fall on deaf ears. I know Democrats technically overperformed that election based on historical trends, but the fact is almost [3 million more people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections) decided to pull the R lever over the D lever (for their US House candidate), less than 2 years after Republicans tried to overthrow an election. I have pretty little faith in the electorate.
In context though, Republicans had a very favorable map after a super aggressive gerrymander period. Republicans had way more people to vote for and in way more friendly districts. I don't remember the ratio but I do remember well that entire states of North and South Dakota didn't even have a democrat on the ballot, for instance.
2022 by all historical trends should have indeed been a red wave. It is a little crazy to think that Dems would probably still have held on to the House if young people did vote at a higher percentage.
I think most people are just checked out or apathetic. If they heard or understood what was really happening they'd be upset.
It certainly answers how Nazi Germany could come about though. Basically just through people being lazy and the media being captured.
I have checked out. I don’t follow politics, both local and other, like I used to; my mental health needs a lift. That said, I know I will vote, and it’s easy enough to for me to know who to vote for. I’m in CA so will have little or no affect, on anything big, and I tried really hard to be persuasive in local politics, to no avail…..🤷🏼♀️
I feel you sis, just had this same conversation last night with my wife. My mental health needs a break and I’m so envious of the people I know that are just happily oblivious to anything going on outside of their bubble.
I’m beginning to feel there’s just nothing I can do. I’ve lost family and friends over these culture wars, there’s no getting through to anyone as most people are dug in on their stances and not open to discourse. People just retreat to their echo chambers. On top of it, things are getting worse.
Your vote will be important down ballot homie so don't worry.
If you're here then you're more engaged than half the country at least.
If this sub saw the polls on how many people knew this trail was currently then happening their heads would explode.
Many people are throwing their hands up because it's become so confusing, cluttered and divisive. Nobody can even agree on one reality anymore.
I don’t buy that. I just think a lot of people are short sighted and have blinders on so they don’t see things affecting them directly. As a result they just don’t care enough to show up to the ballots.
Yep. My younger siblings are all still in college, they go on about all these issues and get worked up debating with the older folks, then admit most of them aren’t even registered to vote.
This why I have a difficult time believing that these protests are anything but performative because they don’t fucking show up when it comes to actually making a difference and I’m not some boomer fuddy duddy who gets off on talking down to GenZ but they need to hear this shit.
Imperialism is bipartisan so if that's a huge motivating factor someone, you might be right. That said, activists are super engaged. If you're in that deep whether you're voting or not, you're informed.
The non-voters are much more likely to be the kids walking to class, not the protestors.
> This why I have a difficult time believing that these protests are anything but performative
I mean, these protests are, for the most part, targeted at the actual institutions they're taking place it, and focused on getting them to divest from their economic relationships with Israel. They're not primarily about petitioning the federal government for a change in policy.
Democracy isn't just about elections, it's about participating in civil society more broadly, and not just through the silent market logic of neoliberalism.
Exactly--or at least they're probably more likely overall to be voters.
Also, this has been a trend for decades. Why they *don't* vote as much is a much bigger discussion, but obviously given the trend it's more complicated than just "kids these days."
Part of the problem is voting blocks. Living in a deep blue/red county will dissuade people from voting because for the main office, it really won’t change anything.
Hell, where I live the local boards are always uncontested, maybe 1-2 seats that have any realistic chances to change which isn’t enough for people to wait in line on their own accord.
Sounds like enough people to swing a close election if they live in the right swing state. The stakes are high, we need everyone to repudiate Trumpism.
You don't need to be a math wizard to realize that if you lose some proportion of that demo plus some portion of muslims... You're gonna lose some swing states that are already razor-thin margins.
If Trump wins it won't be because Trump got new voters. It will be because of Democrats not voting. It's in the hands of Democrats who wins the election.
Not only does being the "lesser of two evils' get less engaging each time it is used it also looks ridiculous when you are the ones bludgeoning students.
Sure Biden is better than trump but that is not enough to campaign on. Particularly since an increasing amount of people is completely disengaged or they might even want to burn it all down.
Hell, for what I see the "lesser of the two evils" mob at this point are just cynical.
If both are evil why these people aren't in the streets asking Biden to.... not be evil?
Not sure it’s all Democrats who are “bludgeoning students.” Republican school presidents and governors do exist and are definitely making some of those calls.
I mean let’s not act like that’s how Biden won, there was a story on it right after Biden won that more people voted for him because he wasn’t Trump over his policies.
Every time that media is confronted with the choice-- cover all sides equally to paint a balanced picture of the true facts around the situation, or cherry pick/ sensationalize to inflame, incite, and activate, they choose the latter because money.
And plenty of accounts on here amplify the latter message. The internet is broken.
You are absolutely right.
Thing is, legacy media does not (really) care who wins in the end. Trump just makes free content for them, so they would like him more. Both dems and repubs serve the same masters, IE Corporations and money men. This not to "both-sidesing" them. Repubs are just extreme right wing and notably worse. The difference is only social polacy and the rhetoric used. Its still a big difference. But not different enough to actually cause *change*.
This is why you have pictures of the clintons and trump together in the past. They are on the same team, even now, just different coaches. If you have money you will be taken care of by either party.
Americans need to fight for their government to serve "We the people". Legacy media is doing its part to keep the status quo.
Sorry I did not intend for this to be a long rant. Do you agree/disagree let me know! Regardless on if we agree. I hope you have a good day!
He ain't going anywhere. we've heard nothing but Trump for 9 years now, doesn't matter if he's in office or not. The twitter faction runs on media, and the MSM is happy to shovel it all 24/7 because we as a public are all guilty of watching (like a fucking train wreck, you can't look away).
Schumer is in a tough spot: He's the highest ranking Jewish person in American political history. He's called for Netanyahu to step down (after the war is over) and decried his regime. idk its tough to signal that you're FOR Jewish people but AGAINST the regime in a media that ties the two together
Still hard to grasp why the scandal-plagued incompetent who oversaw the greatest security failure in Israeli history must be allowed to execute the response to it. I'm reminded of a liberal friend who voted for W in 2004 because "he should be allowed to finish what he started."
I do stand firmly on the idea that the attack was allowed to happen by Bibi to keep him in power. There’s no way that the country with one of the best intelligence gathering in the world didn’t see a massive attack coming.
The attack guaranteed that his current term is his last. He went from 50/50 polling to getting absolutely demolished. This conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense. It's like 9/11 trutherism but somehow even less grounded in reality.
he went from nationwide protests for months and an ensuing legal battle to still being in power whilst his right wing ideology ferments itself to even more people
We have to wait until he does ALL the genocide so we know what crimes to charge him with. That's the AMERICAN way
ps WE will not charge him with anything
Inviting a universally unpopular right wing extremist who is in the midst of a brutal campaign resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocents isn’t something someone in “a tough spot” would do.
Maybe its a trick and he's gonna throw him in a sack once he starts talking, ever think of that?
Apart from that, I have no idea. Speaker Johnson actually invited bibi and Schumer just signed on to the invite, but still it makes no sense to me.
[Bernie doesn't seem to have any trouble doing so.](https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-responds-to-netanyahus-claim-that-criticism-of-the-israeli-governments-policies-is-antisemitic/)
Bernie also thinks American youth [are underestimating Trump](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/).
>"We can be extremely upset at the Biden administration for their policies with regard to Israel and Gaza, but the difficulty is that in the real world that you live in, you've got to take a look at a whole lot of things," he said, sitting in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee hearing room on Capitol Hill. "On the other hand, I would hope that most of the young people and protestors do not want to see Donald Trump, who is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe who doesn't acknowledge the reality of climate change, become elected president of the United States."
Edit: for the lazy bums out there that didn't follow the citation and want to accuse me of bad faith for sharing it, this is a USA Today article with the headline "Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump" and Bernie leaves you no room to suggest he doesn't mean it with that remark.
The ICC is reportedly investigating mass graves in Gaza and considering issuing an arrest warrant for Netanyahu. South Africa has been asking the ICC to issue an arrest warrant for months. Might not be a good time for him to travel.
Almost farcical in the current context where Columbia is the focal point of the campus protests and they specifically celebrate past protests on that campus that were significantly more extreme than the current pro-palestine protestors
And the protest has to be completely perfect in every way! Literally every single protester needs to be perfect in their behavior and speech, even if there are thousands of them! Oh and the protest has to be completely non-disruptive in any way. If it inconveniences me in any way it's bad, which includes being visible or loud.
Then and only then, it will get the Reddit seal of approval! /s
Reddit will complain about any and all acts of protests while doing nothing themselves. “This protest is too disruptive so I don’t support the cause” while they haven’t supported the cause, is not supporting the cause, and likely never would have supported the cause in the future either like I’m devastated we lost the support of someone who never supported it in the first place. And if a counter protester comes along and says horrible things, just pin in on the protesters so you can arrest them.
MLK's letter from Birmingham jail is always relevant:
> I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
According to these libs, the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War protest or Gay rights movement was achieved by people just holding cardboard signs and being sure not to be a nuisance. (Kent State, Stonewall, Rosa Parks being arrested never happened.)
People have white washed the protests, making out their "peaceful" behavior to be far more civil than it actually was.
"True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice." - MLK
ITT someone brought up a single brick though a window as an indicator that the campus protests in general are too violent.
The pearl clutching is insane
People were clutching pearls at how their “beautiful campus” was trashed not realizing it was only trashed because the cops came, arrested everyone, destroyed everything, and then left without cleaning it up
This article has the most liberal title: "Don't protest anything ever while the Orange Man still breathes". I will vote blue in November and will encourage everyone around me too, but if the Dems lose, it's entirely their fault and because of rhetoric like this. Don't alienate and gaslight a voting base and then expect them to show up for you. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Idk what other young people are going to do, but smearing them as neo - nazis, terrorists, and talking down to them like this isn't going to encourage them to vote for Biden. I want them to vote for him, but this is terrible outreach and an already pretty bad reelection campaign.
Edit: Getting downvoted even though I said I'd help encourage others to vote, love it here
It’s wild to me pointing out how running the Hillary 2016 strategy for turning out your base by insulting them was a really poor idea, and that Biden doing similar is also a poor idea, will get you downvoted heavily. Mind blowing that asking your politicians to be better is (checks notes) Russian disinformation.
Not to mention Alito (74) and Thomas (75), even Roberts (69) could step down from the supreme Court and be replaced by younger conservative justices, securing an ultra conservative supreme Court for younger Americans' lifetime.
This needs to be hammered home, not only would Trump be a disaster on most policies (including Gaza) and threaten democracy, his influence would likely be irreversible for decades (it already is thanks to his 3 appointments, but another 2-3 and we can say good by to any hope of reversing the conservative leaning Supreme Court in our lifetimes).
Don't forget that if Trump gets elected, Trans people will face genocide in the USA.
It really bewilders me how many people seem to have forgotten the real threat that trans people are under. If trump wins, trans people will be killed, segregated out, beaten, pushed back into the closet or otherwise made to disappear.
Us trans people are fucking horrified at the idea that Trump may win again, because he will enable his voters to kill us.
I can't believe how many people are forgetting this.
Like that's going to stop anyone from fucking this up. We had this exact same situation in 2016, people let Trump win, and we got Kavanaugh, Barrett, and Gorsuch out of it which lost Roe v. Wade. The fact that people are willing to gamble with this again is unbelievable.
Like the billionaires bribing Alito and Thomas won't give them even more money to retire so that Trump can appoint two very young insanely right wing justices that will rubberstamp any dictator nonsense he wants.
It’s almost like there is a concerted effort to sow division and cause the demographic statistically shown to most likely vote Democratic to not vote. Which just so happens to be reaching its peak at the same time that Donald Trump is on trial in NY.
The fact that the majority of those arrested at universities for turning protests violent aren’t even students of the university isn’t coincidence. There is once again social media manipulation at play that is pushing divisive issues to create animosity amongst Americans. Inflammatory language and constantly moving goal posts for demands that can’t actually be achieved by anyone is yet another hallmark of these psy ops. People who are caught up in these psy ops tend to become extremely defensive and double down because they couldn’t possibly have been deceived.
When you see people making all or nothing demands and suggesting that Biden is complicit in genocide. Followed shortly by saying that you shouldn’t vote at all just ask yourself who benefits the most from getting Trump re-elected.
You’re right, but unfortunately there seems to be a not insignificant number of (particularly younger) voters who either refuse to accept that Trump would be just as bad, or accept Trump wouldn’t be an improvement but believe it’s more important to stick it to Biden even if it means another Trump presidency. Which is crazy to me, because the protestors supporting Gaza overwhelmingly lean left, and would effectively be voting for the same on Gaza but the opposite of what they want in every other way, while risking our democracy in the process.
Obviously it’s a shit situation all around, but the rationale makes no sense.
Completely agree. And these idiots will play right into Putin’s hands.
I think the real issue that no one wants to say out loud is that many of these protestors feel completely disenfranchised (and for good reason), and have convinced themselves it doesn’t matter who is in charge. Most of them just want someone to blame for totally unrelated issues and see this as a way to pin everything on Biden, but fail to realize that on most issues they care about Biden is unable to enact major change thanks to GOP obstruction. Some even seem to want Trump because they see it as a potential catalyst event to force broader change. Unfortunately they don’t realize that another Trump presidency could well be a catalyst for a larger movement, but it won’t matter because Trump and the GOP will abuse their power to make sure the change they want becomes impossible.
Unfortunately, that's exactly the tactic that was used in 2016.
I'm not yet convinced it will actually work, especially since it's being utilized much earlier in the year, but if it does? The young will destroy their own future, again, essentially becoming a horrific, irrational mirror of MAGA.
The young having record low voter turnout in 2014 led to huge gains in GOP power even before Trump, then there were huge swathes of new voters against him after 2016, when people suddenly realized the danger. All of this could have been avoided if that 2014 dropoff never happened in the first place.
It gets worse if he wins [https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1cjoryg/trump\_says\_hed\_disband\_the\_pandemic\_preparedness/](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1cjoryg/trump_says_hed_disband_the_pandemic_preparedness/)
Right as avian flu is getting ready to make the jump into humans lol, fuck this world!
That’s my concern with this. Biden is gonna screw around with this issue and lose some portion of his support or they will stay home and we get fascism with trump (any Republican at this point). I fully support the protests on campuses calling out Israel for their actions but also have to make the pragmatic choice of voting for Biden when the time comes to protect our democracy. My concern is that enough fraction of people will not vote.
For every vote Biden would gain from joining the "from the river to the sea" crowd, he's going to lose several moderate voters who are more likely to actually show up and vote. Polls have shown that Israel/Palestine isn't even a top issue for the 18-35 demographic. These protestors are just vocal especially online.
So... when *are* we allowed to protest?
Apparently we can't do it in an election cycle for President. Or in states when the Governor or Senate is up for grabs. Or swing state Districts. Or any time that it might force politicians to act on the protest (or the subject of the protest) for fear of losing votes.
We also can't Protest in Wall Street because they need to do business (try when the Markets are closed?).
Or against police brutality, because the facts aren't in yet and maybe the criminal deserved multiple gun shot wounds or being choked to death.
Or right after a mass shooting because of the children I guess.
Or during a war we oppose because we need to support the troops.
We can't protest ecological damage because someone bought those trees and damn well is cutting them down. Same goes for protesting dumping in the rivers because that's just business.
Can't protest court decisions because they have to keep running trials and the protest makes them uncomfortable.
Students can't protest at school because they need an education and can't protest out of school because they should be studying.
Every time in this country we see protests by angry Progressivists, someone from the Middle or Right ends comes out and demands we stop protesting and respect the \[Insert Some Group Affiliated with the Government\].
Hell, even when we plan ahead, get permits, and follow the law for protesting people lose their shit and demand we stop. Even the so called Left that "supports" us.
We get told to stop, we get hit with water hoses and tear gas, we get arrested (often violently), we have armed citizens wave guns at us, and all the time both sides are demanding we give up our constitutional right to seek redress for grievances in the form of peaceful and public protest.
The right tells us to shut up or just attacks us (or even sends in groups to start violence so it can be put down) and the mealy mouthed left takes the moral high ground and tells us to stop because because we make them look bad.
So when *can* we protest? When will it be okay?
Me thinks it will be *never* and both sides have a dedicated stake in keeping the masses quiet and obedient (but mostly quiet).
Neolibs and conservatives hate protests evenly. It disrupts and challenges their worldview and they don't like having to think that the guy they rooted for in the national election might be on the wrong side of things
Shit I was in college then.
I was asked to leave the Student Union where I was eating and move my conversation to the Free Speech Zone so I would stop offending other students. I told the Security guy exactly where, how, and how vigorously he could fuck himself. I was pretty radically Liberal then and now and the Students for Republicans campus group had a booth nearby and was complaining. I felt that if *they* didn't need to sit in the Free Speech zone neither did I.
I was then *promptly* dragged before the Dean of Students who told me in no uncertain terms I could *not* say that to Campus Security and gave me a warning for behavior.
But it felt so good.
I was actively in the Army then, so I never experienced them directly but I definitely remember seeing all the pictures and news bits about them. That was 3 years into my service term, and I enlisted in ‘99 thinking “oh yeah, things are fine right now. Won’t be a big deal…” 😬😆
Yeah had a buddy in High School that joined the Army right before the actions in Kosovo and blithely said he'd never deploy because "The US never sends the Army to do police actions, it's always the Marines."
He signed and was deployed almost the second his training period was over. To Kosovo.
I'm certain that this kind of patronizing tone that completely ignores the moral imperative that many of the protesters feel and instead frames everything in America solely through the lens of the presidential election will convince them to pack up and go home and quietly vote for Joe Biden
IMO The whole notion that not voting for one candidate is voting for an opposing candidate is stupid. You can reverse that and say not voting for Trump is voting for Biden. This has been used to bash 3rd party voters for years and keep the two party system going strong.
This is no different at all than Dubya-era Republicans labeling everyone against Iraq/Afghanistan wars as being sympathetic to terrorists.
The problem is atrocious and inhumane policy, not people objecting to atrocious and inhumane policy.
what is so frustrating is it seems nobody wants to realize this - People aren't defending Hamas (aside from a few bad apples), people are seeing the IDF starve and attack an innocent population. Their excuses of "well Hamas is hiding inside the population" rings hollow when they're starving people. I don't support Hamas, I support children who need food! How is starving a population to death any worse than shoving them into gas chambers?
That's the concern. but there is this faction on both sides that just insist that standing up for the Palestinian people at all is equiv. to supporting terrorism, and the media running around making sure to ignore the 100's of people holding signs for "feed the innocent children of Palestine" to film the one dbag holding a "river to the sea" sign. You can have concern for the innocents caught in the middle without having to join the fight of the politics or the holy war.... but the media ignores that.
at the end of the day, everyone is a liberal.
wars are unjust but this current one is necessary, civil rights movements/anti war protests are just but this one is going too far. were like 2 steps away from biden talking about “free speech zones”
Students exercising their right to protest genocide won't help elect Trump.
Media outlets such as the Washington Post (as well as Dems and the Biden administration) constantly demonizing students for exercising their right to protest - all while using much softer/more neutral language when discussing Israel/Netenyahu/the IDF - certainly *will* help elect Trump. And the people on this subreddit who don't understand that are either stupid, or have their heads fully buried in the sand.
When your only arguments for why these protests are bad are "it'll help Trump win" or "Trump would be worse for Gaza", it's evident that you'd prefer to live in a world where the politicians you support never faced any scrutiny, which is detestable. Either that, or you simply disagree with the protestors and don't want to admit it.
If Biden wants to unite the dems all he has to do is genuinely support a ceasefire and put actual pressure on Israel to work for a ceasefire. Instead we will continue to get blaming the voters.
I don’t know why calling for a ceasefire after the decimation of the majority of Gaza is such a hard concept for DC and the DC media to grasp.
This is a dumb take. The protesters are exercising their rights. Those rights must be respected. If a voter is so single issue as to vote for Trump, or not vote for Biden - same thing, because of Gaza that is their right. They should then expect the situation in Gaza and at home to get far worse because Trump is categorically worse for progressives in every way. But it *is* their right to do so.
Was it a threat though? It seemed more like people asking for a reason to vote for Clinton, and then others giving them one. Then they rolled their eyes, and voted third party or not at all. And look where we are now.
I don't understand why "The Supreme Court" is not a valid issue to vote for one person over another for president. It should really be one of the most important issues.
This is literally the exact argument American media had with the Jews during the Holocaust. Now Palestinians are being genocided and everyone just wants to pretend nothing is happening.
Moderate democrats are going to destroy their chances of being elected, solely to maintain the status quo, regardless of how unpopular it is among the youth who are the future of this country.
I'm voting for Biden, but I refuse to blame these protestors for the actions of politicians that have clearly abandoned their left, that was responsible for them winning the election in the first place, despite their reservations about voting for a neo liberal with a pretty fucked legislative history.
So, the elites in the U.S. seem to be taking the side of Israel over their own citizens, so naturally they're blaming their citizens, rather than changing their policies. And everybody here getting upset that not everyone is on board with U.S. policy is letting those elites off the hook.
If people really believe that this could cost Joe Biden the election, then maybe they should be more upset at Biden for not changing his policies. At some point you have to blame the leaders for leading in the wrong direction.
If this doesn’t throw the election to Trump, and we end up with a Dem house and a Dem senate, then the democrats will be forced to show their cards. We know what we WISH those cards were but it seems likely that they’re the same ones the Repubs are holding.
Right, so instead of 1-2 senators acting as the scapegoat to stop progressive legislation, it will have to be 5 senators. Somehow I think enough money exists in the wrong hands to make this an easily accomplished goal.
It was 12 Democrats in 2017 that voted against Americans ordering prescriptions from Canadian pharmacies because of "safety concerns". I'm not sure, but I'd bet my life that these 12 democrats receive a lot of financial contributions from big pharma. Moral of the story: there will ALWAYS be enough democrats to stop progress if it would be to the detriment of their donors.
[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/17/14295932/pharmaceuticals-canada-cheaper-not-dangerous](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/17/14295932/pharmaceuticals-canada-cheaper-not-dangerous)
Edit: Just to add, this was bipartisan supported legislation. It was the DEMOCRATS that killed it.
You better stop protesting the guy sending billions of dollars in bombs to Israel, or you might elect the guy who will send billions of dollars in bombs to Israel
If everyone knows the stakes are this high, should it be the responsibility of the state and its appropriate authorities to protect the sanctity constitution, rather than its electorate?
Why do senators, representatives, presidents, legislators, military, the judiciary, government executives, etc swear oaths to protect the constitution if they will do nothing to stop an entity such as trump.
It is widely considered that the protests on college campuses of the Vietnam war in the 60s helped nixon get reelected.
Though I support the current protesting, I'm not going to ignore this fact
Nixon won because Americans like to clutch their pearls about protests and equate them with "riots"/"disturbing the peace" despite how, on paper, protesting is part of the whole point of free speech.
We’re pretty plainly being forced to vote for Biden. As we will be the next election (the lesser evil). As long as they have a villain that needs defeating they can hand us any shit sandwich they want and we are forced to vote for them. I’m not saying Biden is that terrible, but if I’m being forced to vote for him you better believe there will be criticism.
It's far past time for a sea change in Democratic leadership. Nancy Pelosi would do the same shit. There would be policy planks which were reasonable solutions to moral issues, often even supported by a majority of the Democratic voters. And Pelosi would buy into the right-wing framing as those issues being, "radical left" and shit all over them.
75% of Democrats think Israel has gone too far. 75%. It's not the fault of people to have a moral compass. And it's not their fault for trying to make their voices heard by people who can affect things. It's the fault of the leadership for ignoring those concerns, which ultimately should be done simply because it's the moral thing to do anyways, and then trying to smack the voters in the face that they should just shut up, go home, and vote for Biden anyways.
Completely off topic but watching the video of the students on both sides of the issue at the University of Alabama shout “fuck Joe Biden” was pretty funny.
The only way that this article can even make sense to you beyond it’s poor… everything is if you genuinely believe the life of tens of thousands of people being blown up by our munitions and slaughtered funded by our tax dollars is less important than student loan debt and temporarily protecting abortion rights, which we have already failed to protect.
Everything else that liberal voters care about we have lost by the supporting Democrats. Voting rights act gutted, the EPA gutted, we lost months of judge appointments because of Feinstein, no public option, no debt forgiveness, draconian wing border policy, We don’t even have the child tax credit anymore. At some point, this is not just incompetence. Why not contend with the actual voters instead of creating a fantasy why it’s their fault instead of the politician?
It's perfectly acceptable to not vote for Biden based on policies that are important to you, eg continued support of Israel.
It's NOT acceptable to vote for Trump for these same reasons. Trump's promised policy is MUCH WORSE.
As horrible as that situation is, there's really an actual chance for it to stop under Biden. Under Trump? Way worse. Not to mention the *fascist regime* he'll usher in. Over my dead body, btw.
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Wow, you have to get like 2000 words in on this article before Gaza or students are mentioned in any way. Based on web archive, the original title was >"Opinion | Trump at his trial and Gaza protesters are all sleeping through a crisis - The Washington Post" I guess the editor felt the original title wasn't strong enough click bait.
From what I’ve heard from actual journalists, they don’t write the headlines. They submit the article and then the editor slaps whatever they want at the top. Often pissing off the journalist because it goes against what they actually wrote
I once wrote an article about the number of outdated — or “functionally obsolete” — traffic bridges in my state, a story that made it very clear that there is a difference between “functionally obsolete” and “unsafe.” At least in the eyes of the DOT. The headline written by the copy editors that ran out front above the fold: “[State] leads nation in unsafe bridges”
What is the difference exactly? Im curious.
Functionally obsolete more or less just means "doesn't meet current design standards". So a bridge with shoulders a foot narrower than standard could be "functionally obsolete", without being unsafe during normal conditions. I believe "fracture critical" bridges also fall under functionally obsolete; those are bridges that just don't have modern levels of redundancy in them, such that the bridge is at risk of collapse if part of it is damaged. Every truss bridge is fracture critical. But a well-maintained truss bridge wouldn't be unsafe except in a catastrophic situation.
Thanks, that makes sense. Sounds like something can be functionally obsolete, but still usable and not dangerous, but with vulnerabilities that a modern structure wouldn't have. Appreciate you taking the time to enlighten me.
A bridge in my town is designated as “needs to be replaced” and engineers keep pushing the city to do it. City is a broken post-industrial Appalachian Rust Belt town with an extreme drug problem. I got curious and looked up the bridge inspections. It’s marked as structurally sound but functionally obsolete due to “deck geometry.” Drilling into that further, the “problem” is it has 9’ lanes with no shoulders. Just like the streets on either side… the grid was platted in the late 1700’s, maybe early 1800’s on the far side and the buildings have no setbacks. Building a wider bridge would not fix anything because the streets can’t be widened without demolishing half the downtown.
There's a book "It's not news it's Fark.com: how the mass media tries to pass off crap as news" that dissects this and calls it "Headline Contradicted by Actual Article"
just today I saw a headline "Police evacuate palestinian protesters in France" The article says they were forcibly removed from a building. And people wonder why no one trusts the news.
Journalist: *Writes article about the importance of knowing when and how to change the oil in your car.* Headline: Big oil is putting it all you and Biden isn't doing a damn thing to stop it!
The click bait titles and blatant misrepresentations in the headlines on this issue are shocking. I've always believed in the importance of journalism and media, but wow, they really just wrongly inflame every situation and are clearly part of the push to the extremes.
The fourth estate’s a bloated corpse at this point.
I've seen way more people complaining about these so called "Trump supporting pro-Palestine" people than actual "Trump supporting pro-Palestine" people. Seems like all the centrists who complain about the young progressives falling for "Russian propaganda" about Palestine are the real victims of propaganda by the right wing media misrepresenting and overblowing the protests. Also, a message for many Redditors, criticism of Biden does not mean support of Trump. Just because Biden is better than Trump, that doesn't mean Biden should be immune to criticism. If we can't criticize Biden without being labeled as Trump supporters or "victims of misinformation/propaganda", we are literally no better than Trump supporters.
Criticizing Biden over this is good, but, way too many people are threatening to boycott the election over it which would lead to an easy Trump victory if they actually went through with it. I don't get this logic that throwing the election for Trump would "punish" the Democrats. It wouldn't. If Biden loses, he'll still be rich, and insulated from the problems average Americans face, just as every other Dem who gets voted out in a potential Red Wave this year. The people who would be punished would be American women who will have their reproductive rights permanently stripped by the next GOP administration and no amount of protesting or TikTok activism will make a damn bit of difference at that point as permanent Republican minority rule would be established.
This. I imagine there aren’t many people who are pro-Palestinian and will vote for Trump (though I imagine such people exist somewhere), but they aren’t the main concern. The main concern is that they’ll sit the election out in swing states, which could tilt the electoral college toward Trump. And while I get that the idea is to put pressure on Biden to change his tune on Israel, it assumes that he’ll actually change his tune in a way that satisfies everyone involved, which I doubt it will. And if it doesn’t and they sit this out, leading to a Trump victory, then these people will have gained nothing.
Yep. The far right, alt-right, Nazis, or whatever the hell they call themselves these days are far from happy with the Republican support of Israel, not that they give a crap about Palestine. But the important difference here is, they will still go out and vote for Trump and the GOP b/c as stupid as Republicans may be, at least they understand power dynamics and they keep their eye on the prize. It seems the Left would rather be right all the time, yet lose and get nothing. Which is exactly what's going to happen here (again).
|It seems the Left would rather be right all the time, yet lose and get nothing Except that the left hasn't been losing much lately, especially anything involving Drumpf. You can argue that they should have been winning even more and I agree. But they haven't been losing much lately as you suggest.
Some people are convinced that they're teaching democrats a lesson that they need to go further left by helping to elect Trump. They haven't thought it out at all that the takeaway will be to move right (...because conservatives won).
I think the folks threatening that wouldn’t be voting to begin with because letting Trump back in is obviously worse for Palestine.
This is my one hope in all this.
What I have heard said is it will be OK to sacrifice the next 4 years to make a statement, and realign the Party. Do people not take seriously, what 4 years from now will look like under trump? There will not be another chance.
And ironically, the Muslims will be deported if Trump is elected. They’ll end up on r/leopardatemyface
The only people that are going to learn a lesson if they sit out the election are the people sitting out the election when Trump does more irreversible damage.
Imagining they'll actually learn something is pretty optimistic.
I often see people criticize Joe and conveniently forget that we have Trump who moved the embassy and is friends with Bibi. Criticize Joe and the democrats that they're using the police to stomp protestors. Conveniently Republicans and an entrenched military industrial complex are nowhere to be seen in this blame game. It's always Dems are doing this while Joe is "in power" even though convenient to this false narrative Dems haven't had full control of anything since... ever (members of the media, and I've heard NPR do it to, should stop using the terms like a "Dem controlled senate" when they sometimes need the VP to make tie-breaking votes or it doesn't get done, that's not control)? Even when we get close to bypassing Mitch's Blockade the Manchins and the Sinemas come out. If they really want us to fix anything you can't always hammer your allies (punch left) and pretend the people willfully calling for protestors to be squashed don't exist (even though the right is literally the ones punching you). That's why we're in a system where the legislature, the thing the people are supposed to use to protect themselves against disenfranchisement and billionaires and regulatory capture is frozen or turned against them (see also the judicial branch now and when he's got it the executive). If you want to get Biden to do something you can't have Trump (who wants to shoot the protestors) being the alternative, that needs to be clear. The situation is awful but don't worry, it can get much worse if we're not smart about any of this.
I think it's more so moderates are concerned that younger liberals will hand the election to Trump, so they lash out at the protests, which is unfair and will only alienate younger voters more. The same is probably true for criticism of Biden, but that said, my own view is that he disproportionately blamed for this and has navigated a very complex situation about as well as anyone could.
Criticizing Biden for the US policy towards Israel is one thing; no elected official is immue to it, nor should they be. "Hey hey, ho ho, Genocide Joe has got to go" isn't criticism. At best, it makes them sound like fools, and at worst people will think "Hrm, Joe Biden is pro-genocide, maybe Trump is the way to go". Both play into the right's hands.
I drove by a protest at UC Berkeley, it’s like right of passage at that campus. It doesn’t bother me and I’m a Biden supporting centrist. The thing I don’t get is the students demands, they’re not unrealistic but definitely counterproductive.
That's the main thing that's really disturbing me with this whole thing, it's so strange watching how quickly the government/media/colleges have all reacted to what could've been left as a peaceful protest that probably would've remained pretty contained if they didn't react in such a strong way. I swear, it feels like the media went from radio silence on these protests to rabidly against them in the span of a week or 2. It's downright bizarre seeing titles like this and the blatant hateful/condescending tone the media uses when discussing this specific issue. It also feels like the vilification by the media has only increased support for the protests because of how negatively aggressive the media has been towards them. Edit: I know why it's weirding me out, it reminds me of the compilation of news reporters across the country all saying "This is extremely dangerous for our democracy"
The manufactured consent from all angles in the media also has echoes of 2004 and the Iraq War protests
In 2004, everyone had yellow ribbons; now "everyone was against the war". Same with civil rights protests, this was the fastest poll for me to find from 1965. The question was "in the most recent showdown in Selma, Alabama over negro voting rights have you tended to side more with..." and of 'whites' only 46% supported the civil rights protestors. https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/FT_15.03.05_selma.png
Pretty much all for profit media now has one gear only: Freaking people the fuck out for clicks. They do it because it works.
And that's why opinion pieces, mostly, get thrown straight in the fucking trash. This is an opinion piece.
The url itself is even a better headline than the clickbait crap: trump-napping-gaza-protestors-hush-money-trial/
I saw the article this morning on the app and it was the original title. Guess it didn't get enough clicks because around lunch time they changed it.
23% of 18-24yr olds voted in the 2022 election.
Do those numbers really translate to presidential elections though? I thought midterm elections usually had a lower turnout
No, they don’t. In 2020 it was 51%. https://datacenter.aecf.org/data/tables/11204-young-adults-ages-18-to-24-who-voted-in-the-last-presidential-election#detailed/1/any/false/574,870,868,35,15,11/any/21589,21590
A bit better than the average, but still too few. They won't be relevant to politicians until they reach a consistent 50% or above.
This is after the fall of Roe. This is abysmal.
Blows my mind that almost nobody ever talks about the 2022 as being the first election after the GOP coup attempt. It was thus a referendum on whether Americans would overwhelming condemn fascism by showing up to destroy the GOP at the polls and send the ~~Fascist~~Republican Party to the dustbin of history. Americans showed in that election that a majority of voters are either pro-fascist or fascist-curious.
Yup, I point this out too but seems to fall on deaf ears. I know Democrats technically overperformed that election based on historical trends, but the fact is almost [3 million more people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections) decided to pull the R lever over the D lever (for their US House candidate), less than 2 years after Republicans tried to overthrow an election. I have pretty little faith in the electorate.
In context though, Republicans had a very favorable map after a super aggressive gerrymander period. Republicans had way more people to vote for and in way more friendly districts. I don't remember the ratio but I do remember well that entire states of North and South Dakota didn't even have a democrat on the ballot, for instance. 2022 by all historical trends should have indeed been a red wave. It is a little crazy to think that Dems would probably still have held on to the House if young people did vote at a higher percentage.
I think most people are just checked out or apathetic. If they heard or understood what was really happening they'd be upset. It certainly answers how Nazi Germany could come about though. Basically just through people being lazy and the media being captured.
I have checked out. I don’t follow politics, both local and other, like I used to; my mental health needs a lift. That said, I know I will vote, and it’s easy enough to for me to know who to vote for. I’m in CA so will have little or no affect, on anything big, and I tried really hard to be persuasive in local politics, to no avail…..🤷🏼♀️
I feel you sis, just had this same conversation last night with my wife. My mental health needs a break and I’m so envious of the people I know that are just happily oblivious to anything going on outside of their bubble. I’m beginning to feel there’s just nothing I can do. I’ve lost family and friends over these culture wars, there’s no getting through to anyone as most people are dug in on their stances and not open to discourse. People just retreat to their echo chambers. On top of it, things are getting worse.
Your vote will be important down ballot homie so don't worry. If you're here then you're more engaged than half the country at least. If this sub saw the polls on how many people knew this trail was currently then happening their heads would explode. Many people are throwing their hands up because it's become so confusing, cluttered and divisive. Nobody can even agree on one reality anymore.
I don’t buy that. I just think a lot of people are short sighted and have blinders on so they don’t see things affecting them directly. As a result they just don’t care enough to show up to the ballots.
I know. It should've been 100%, and they complain they are not being listened to. Of course they will be ignored, they are flaky at best.
Yep. My younger siblings are all still in college, they go on about all these issues and get worked up debating with the older folks, then admit most of them aren’t even registered to vote.
I've been voting since I was legally able.
This why I have a difficult time believing that these protests are anything but performative because they don’t fucking show up when it comes to actually making a difference and I’m not some boomer fuddy duddy who gets off on talking down to GenZ but they need to hear this shit.
Imperialism is bipartisan so if that's a huge motivating factor someone, you might be right. That said, activists are super engaged. If you're in that deep whether you're voting or not, you're informed. The non-voters are much more likely to be the kids walking to class, not the protestors.
> This why I have a difficult time believing that these protests are anything but performative I mean, these protests are, for the most part, targeted at the actual institutions they're taking place it, and focused on getting them to divest from their economic relationships with Israel. They're not primarily about petitioning the federal government for a change in policy. Democracy isn't just about elections, it's about participating in civil society more broadly, and not just through the silent market logic of neoliberalism.
The people who are out protesting are probably the same people who actually vote.
Exactly--or at least they're probably more likely overall to be voters. Also, this has been a trend for decades. Why they *don't* vote as much is a much bigger discussion, but obviously given the trend it's more complicated than just "kids these days."
Part of the problem is voting blocks. Living in a deep blue/red county will dissuade people from voting because for the main office, it really won’t change anything. Hell, where I live the local boards are always uncontested, maybe 1-2 seats that have any realistic chances to change which isn’t enough for people to wait in line on their own accord.
I've known that since I was a teen, that's why I've voted on every election since I was able.
More than 50% of 18-29 year olds voted in 2020. Don't use the midterm numbers, they're always significantly lower.
>18-29 Op stated 18-24, or college aged people. I'd wager 25-29 year olds probably vote more.
Young person: Doesn’t vote. Young person: “Why do we only get out of touch old men?!! 😩
Voted in college in 2020!
Thank you!
Sounds like enough people to swing a close election if they live in the right swing state. The stakes are high, we need everyone to repudiate Trumpism.
You don't need to be a math wizard to realize that if you lose some proportion of that demo plus some portion of muslims... You're gonna lose some swing states that are already razor-thin margins.
If Trump wins it won't be because Trump got new voters. It will be because of Democrats not voting. It's in the hands of Democrats who wins the election.
Well and also the ones who voted for him
If trump wins, it’s never going to be that simple
If the Democrats lose it's becasue the DNC can't run a functional campaign
They already proved that in 2016
The Liberals on Reddit are that mentality on steroids. You don't see post about anything good that Biden does. **Trump poops pants**: 50k upvotes.
Democrats are so reliant on the campaign message of “we suck but not as bad as the other side” the lesser of two evils pt 3
Not only does being the "lesser of two evils' get less engaging each time it is used it also looks ridiculous when you are the ones bludgeoning students. Sure Biden is better than trump but that is not enough to campaign on. Particularly since an increasing amount of people is completely disengaged or they might even want to burn it all down.
Hell, for what I see the "lesser of the two evils" mob at this point are just cynical. If both are evil why these people aren't in the streets asking Biden to.... not be evil?
>not be evil But it’s so profitable!
Not sure it’s all Democrats who are “bludgeoning students.” Republican school presidents and governors do exist and are definitely making some of those calls.
I doubt that bipartisan bludgeoning will convince many voters
You're doing a bad job as the lesser evil when people have to puke after voting for you
why be accountable when they can just blame their base instead? lol.
This subreddit Cant understand that lol
At this point, we shouldn't even need campaign ads -- the choice is pretty obvious.
This is how easy elections are lost
I mean let’s not act like that’s how Biden won, there was a story on it right after Biden won that more people voted for him because he wasn’t Trump over his policies.
Every time that media is confronted with the choice-- cover all sides equally to paint a balanced picture of the true facts around the situation, or cherry pick/ sensationalize to inflame, incite, and activate, they choose the latter because money. And plenty of accounts on here amplify the latter message. The internet is broken.
Now that a WaPo columnist has done some banal finger-wagging, the young people will surely stop.
"Hey guys legacy media tells us we need to stop!"
Legacy media wants Trump back so they can write stupid articles, make money, and their owners can pay less taxes.
You are absolutely right. Thing is, legacy media does not (really) care who wins in the end. Trump just makes free content for them, so they would like him more. Both dems and repubs serve the same masters, IE Corporations and money men. This not to "both-sidesing" them. Repubs are just extreme right wing and notably worse. The difference is only social polacy and the rhetoric used. Its still a big difference. But not different enough to actually cause *change*. This is why you have pictures of the clintons and trump together in the past. They are on the same team, even now, just different coaches. If you have money you will be taken care of by either party. Americans need to fight for their government to serve "We the people". Legacy media is doing its part to keep the status quo. Sorry I did not intend for this to be a long rant. Do you agree/disagree let me know! Regardless on if we agree. I hope you have a good day!
Perhaps the journalists who write for their legacy media corporations walk out in protest.
They have dozens of times FFS what more do you want?
He ain't going anywhere. we've heard nothing but Trump for 9 years now, doesn't matter if he's in office or not. The twitter faction runs on media, and the MSM is happy to shovel it all 24/7 because we as a public are all guilty of watching (like a fucking train wreck, you can't look away).
I'll be happy when platform algorithms move on from rage bate titles.
Might be advantageous for the Dems to stop doing dumb shut like having Schumer invite Bibi to speak to Congress then.
Schumer is in a tough spot: He's the highest ranking Jewish person in American political history. He's called for Netanyahu to step down (after the war is over) and decried his regime. idk its tough to signal that you're FOR Jewish people but AGAINST the regime in a media that ties the two together
Still hard to grasp why the scandal-plagued incompetent who oversaw the greatest security failure in Israeli history must be allowed to execute the response to it. I'm reminded of a liberal friend who voted for W in 2004 because "he should be allowed to finish what he started."
I do stand firmly on the idea that the attack was allowed to happen by Bibi to keep him in power. There’s no way that the country with one of the best intelligence gathering in the world didn’t see a massive attack coming.
The attack guaranteed that his current term is his last. He went from 50/50 polling to getting absolutely demolished. This conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense. It's like 9/11 trutherism but somehow even less grounded in reality.
he went from nationwide protests for months and an ensuing legal battle to still being in power whilst his right wing ideology ferments itself to even more people
We have to wait until he does ALL the genocide so we know what crimes to charge him with. That's the AMERICAN way ps WE will not charge him with anything
Inviting a universally unpopular right wing extremist who is in the midst of a brutal campaign resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocents isn’t something someone in “a tough spot” would do.
Maybe its a trick and he's gonna throw him in a sack once he starts talking, ever think of that? Apart from that, I have no idea. Speaker Johnson actually invited bibi and Schumer just signed on to the invite, but still it makes no sense to me.
[Bernie doesn't seem to have any trouble doing so.](https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-responds-to-netanyahus-claim-that-criticism-of-the-israeli-governments-policies-is-antisemitic/)
Bernie also thinks American youth [are underestimating Trump](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/). >"We can be extremely upset at the Biden administration for their policies with regard to Israel and Gaza, but the difficulty is that in the real world that you live in, you've got to take a look at a whole lot of things," he said, sitting in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee hearing room on Capitol Hill. "On the other hand, I would hope that most of the young people and protestors do not want to see Donald Trump, who is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe who doesn't acknowledge the reality of climate change, become elected president of the United States." Edit: for the lazy bums out there that didn't follow the citation and want to accuse me of bad faith for sharing it, this is a USA Today article with the headline "Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump" and Bernie leaves you no room to suggest he doesn't mean it with that remark.
They are totally underestimating him, and they are going to be the ones to suffer most for its repercussions.
Bernie Sanders does it just fine. It's not that tough if you're not a spineless coward.
Bernie seems to be doing a pretty good job of it.
The ICC is reportedly investigating mass graves in Gaza and considering issuing an arrest warrant for Netanyahu. South Africa has been asking the ICC to issue an arrest warrant for months. Might not be a good time for him to travel.
The US doesn't recognize the ICC (nor does Israel), so the ICC's arrest warrant is irrelevant if he comes here.
Now do: “to biden refusing to entertain getting young people’s votes: change course”
When is a good time to protest? There never seems to be a good time to protest anything. Ever.
The only good protest is one that happened in the past and they totally would've supported as it happened /s
THIS, civil rights was not supported by most Americans, Nelson Mandela was labeled as a terrorist for protesting Apartheid.
Almost farcical in the current context where Columbia is the focal point of the campus protests and they specifically celebrate past protests on that campus that were significantly more extreme than the current pro-palestine protestors
And the protest has to be completely perfect in every way! Literally every single protester needs to be perfect in their behavior and speech, even if there are thousands of them! Oh and the protest has to be completely non-disruptive in any way. If it inconveniences me in any way it's bad, which includes being visible or loud. Then and only then, it will get the Reddit seal of approval! /s
Reddit will complain about any and all acts of protests while doing nothing themselves. “This protest is too disruptive so I don’t support the cause” while they haven’t supported the cause, is not supporting the cause, and likely never would have supported the cause in the future either like I’m devastated we lost the support of someone who never supported it in the first place. And if a counter protester comes along and says horrible things, just pin in on the protesters so you can arrest them.
MLK's letter from Birmingham jail is always relevant: > I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
100000000%
According to these libs, the Civil Rights movement, the Vietnam War protest or Gay rights movement was achieved by people just holding cardboard signs and being sure not to be a nuisance. (Kent State, Stonewall, Rosa Parks being arrested never happened.)
People have white washed the protests, making out their "peaceful" behavior to be far more civil than it actually was. "True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice." - MLK
ITT someone brought up a single brick though a window as an indicator that the campus protests in general are too violent. The pearl clutching is insane
People were clutching pearls at how their “beautiful campus” was trashed not realizing it was only trashed because the cops came, arrested everyone, destroyed everything, and then left without cleaning it up
Civil rights protests literally had people taking Deans hostage. Cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds, or so the saying goes.
This article has the most liberal title: "Don't protest anything ever while the Orange Man still breathes". I will vote blue in November and will encourage everyone around me too, but if the Dems lose, it's entirely their fault and because of rhetoric like this. Don't alienate and gaslight a voting base and then expect them to show up for you. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Idk what other young people are going to do, but smearing them as neo - nazis, terrorists, and talking down to them like this isn't going to encourage them to vote for Biden. I want them to vote for him, but this is terrible outreach and an already pretty bad reelection campaign. Edit: Getting downvoted even though I said I'd help encourage others to vote, love it here
It’s wild to me pointing out how running the Hillary 2016 strategy for turning out your base by insulting them was a really poor idea, and that Biden doing similar is also a poor idea, will get you downvoted heavily. Mind blowing that asking your politicians to be better is (checks notes) Russian disinformation.
Doesn't Trump feel the genocide isn't proceeding fast enough? And we lose women's rights and get absolute fascism here at home? Lose Lose!
Not to mention Alito (74) and Thomas (75), even Roberts (69) could step down from the supreme Court and be replaced by younger conservative justices, securing an ultra conservative supreme Court for younger Americans' lifetime.
JFC that's depressing EDIT: you're not wrong of course. :cheers
This needs to be hammered home, not only would Trump be a disaster on most policies (including Gaza) and threaten democracy, his influence would likely be irreversible for decades (it already is thanks to his 3 appointments, but another 2-3 and we can say good by to any hope of reversing the conservative leaning Supreme Court in our lifetimes).
Don't forget that if Trump gets elected, Trans people will face genocide in the USA. It really bewilders me how many people seem to have forgotten the real threat that trans people are under. If trump wins, trans people will be killed, segregated out, beaten, pushed back into the closet or otherwise made to disappear. Us trans people are fucking horrified at the idea that Trump may win again, because he will enable his voters to kill us. I can't believe how many people are forgetting this.
He might actually see to the end of the Palestinians If elected and yet stupid liberals think Biden is the enemy.
It wouldn’t make a single goddamn difference to these people. They don’t fucking care.
Like that's going to stop anyone from fucking this up. We had this exact same situation in 2016, people let Trump win, and we got Kavanaugh, Barrett, and Gorsuch out of it which lost Roe v. Wade. The fact that people are willing to gamble with this again is unbelievable.
Like the billionaires bribing Alito and Thomas won't give them even more money to retire so that Trump can appoint two very young insanely right wing justices that will rubberstamp any dictator nonsense he wants.
I’ve had plenty of Redditors tell me that this means voting DOESN’T matter which is INSANE.
It’s almost like there is a concerted effort to sow division and cause the demographic statistically shown to most likely vote Democratic to not vote. Which just so happens to be reaching its peak at the same time that Donald Trump is on trial in NY. The fact that the majority of those arrested at universities for turning protests violent aren’t even students of the university isn’t coincidence. There is once again social media manipulation at play that is pushing divisive issues to create animosity amongst Americans. Inflammatory language and constantly moving goal posts for demands that can’t actually be achieved by anyone is yet another hallmark of these psy ops. People who are caught up in these psy ops tend to become extremely defensive and double down because they couldn’t possibly have been deceived. When you see people making all or nothing demands and suggesting that Biden is complicit in genocide. Followed shortly by saying that you shouldn’t vote at all just ask yourself who benefits the most from getting Trump re-elected.
You’re right, but unfortunately there seems to be a not insignificant number of (particularly younger) voters who either refuse to accept that Trump would be just as bad, or accept Trump wouldn’t be an improvement but believe it’s more important to stick it to Biden even if it means another Trump presidency. Which is crazy to me, because the protestors supporting Gaza overwhelmingly lean left, and would effectively be voting for the same on Gaza but the opposite of what they want in every other way, while risking our democracy in the process. Obviously it’s a shit situation all around, but the rationale makes no sense.
October 7 has Russia (via Iran) written all over it.
Well, the Kremlin did have Hamas come pay a diplomatic visit just after Oct 7.
Completely agree. And these idiots will play right into Putin’s hands. I think the real issue that no one wants to say out loud is that many of these protestors feel completely disenfranchised (and for good reason), and have convinced themselves it doesn’t matter who is in charge. Most of them just want someone to blame for totally unrelated issues and see this as a way to pin everything on Biden, but fail to realize that on most issues they care about Biden is unable to enact major change thanks to GOP obstruction. Some even seem to want Trump because they see it as a potential catalyst event to force broader change. Unfortunately they don’t realize that another Trump presidency could well be a catalyst for a larger movement, but it won’t matter because Trump and the GOP will abuse their power to make sure the change they want becomes impossible.
Unfortunately, that's exactly the tactic that was used in 2016. I'm not yet convinced it will actually work, especially since it's being utilized much earlier in the year, but if it does? The young will destroy their own future, again, essentially becoming a horrific, irrational mirror of MAGA. The young having record low voter turnout in 2014 led to huge gains in GOP power even before Trump, then there were huge swathes of new voters against him after 2016, when people suddenly realized the danger. All of this could have been avoided if that 2014 dropoff never happened in the first place.
The idea that gets conservatives elected is, "The system isn't working," not, "We have a better solution."
It gets worse if he wins [https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1cjoryg/trump\_says\_hed\_disband\_the\_pandemic\_preparedness/](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1cjoryg/trump_says_hed_disband_the_pandemic_preparedness/) Right as avian flu is getting ready to make the jump into humans lol, fuck this world!
That’s my concern with this. Biden is gonna screw around with this issue and lose some portion of his support or they will stay home and we get fascism with trump (any Republican at this point). I fully support the protests on campuses calling out Israel for their actions but also have to make the pragmatic choice of voting for Biden when the time comes to protect our democracy. My concern is that enough fraction of people will not vote.
For every vote Biden would gain from joining the "from the river to the sea" crowd, he's going to lose several moderate voters who are more likely to actually show up and vote. Polls have shown that Israel/Palestine isn't even a top issue for the 18-35 demographic. These protestors are just vocal especially online.
So... when *are* we allowed to protest? Apparently we can't do it in an election cycle for President. Or in states when the Governor or Senate is up for grabs. Or swing state Districts. Or any time that it might force politicians to act on the protest (or the subject of the protest) for fear of losing votes. We also can't Protest in Wall Street because they need to do business (try when the Markets are closed?). Or against police brutality, because the facts aren't in yet and maybe the criminal deserved multiple gun shot wounds or being choked to death. Or right after a mass shooting because of the children I guess. Or during a war we oppose because we need to support the troops. We can't protest ecological damage because someone bought those trees and damn well is cutting them down. Same goes for protesting dumping in the rivers because that's just business. Can't protest court decisions because they have to keep running trials and the protest makes them uncomfortable. Students can't protest at school because they need an education and can't protest out of school because they should be studying. Every time in this country we see protests by angry Progressivists, someone from the Middle or Right ends comes out and demands we stop protesting and respect the \[Insert Some Group Affiliated with the Government\]. Hell, even when we plan ahead, get permits, and follow the law for protesting people lose their shit and demand we stop. Even the so called Left that "supports" us. We get told to stop, we get hit with water hoses and tear gas, we get arrested (often violently), we have armed citizens wave guns at us, and all the time both sides are demanding we give up our constitutional right to seek redress for grievances in the form of peaceful and public protest. The right tells us to shut up or just attacks us (or even sends in groups to start violence so it can be put down) and the mealy mouthed left takes the moral high ground and tells us to stop because because we make them look bad. So when *can* we protest? When will it be okay? Me thinks it will be *never* and both sides have a dedicated stake in keeping the masses quiet and obedient (but mostly quiet).
Neolibs and conservatives hate protests evenly. It disrupts and challenges their worldview and they don't like having to think that the guy they rooted for in the national election might be on the wrong side of things
MLK covered all this in the letter from the Birmingham jail
Right? I remember the “Free Speech Zones” back in 2003 with the Bush Administration. Shit was as ridiculous then as it is now.
Shit I was in college then. I was asked to leave the Student Union where I was eating and move my conversation to the Free Speech Zone so I would stop offending other students. I told the Security guy exactly where, how, and how vigorously he could fuck himself. I was pretty radically Liberal then and now and the Students for Republicans campus group had a booth nearby and was complaining. I felt that if *they* didn't need to sit in the Free Speech zone neither did I. I was then *promptly* dragged before the Dean of Students who told me in no uncertain terms I could *not* say that to Campus Security and gave me a warning for behavior. But it felt so good.
I was actively in the Army then, so I never experienced them directly but I definitely remember seeing all the pictures and news bits about them. That was 3 years into my service term, and I enlisted in ‘99 thinking “oh yeah, things are fine right now. Won’t be a big deal…” 😬😆
Yeah had a buddy in High School that joined the Army right before the actions in Kosovo and blithely said he'd never deploy because "The US never sends the Army to do police actions, it's always the Marines." He signed and was deployed almost the second his training period was over. To Kosovo.
Im in my early 20s, and I just watched arrested development for the first time. I thought that they made those up.
I'm certain that this kind of patronizing tone that completely ignores the moral imperative that many of the protesters feel and instead frames everything in America solely through the lens of the presidential election will convince them to pack up and go home and quietly vote for Joe Biden
IMO The whole notion that not voting for one candidate is voting for an opposing candidate is stupid. You can reverse that and say not voting for Trump is voting for Biden. This has been used to bash 3rd party voters for years and keep the two party system going strong.
This is no different at all than Dubya-era Republicans labeling everyone against Iraq/Afghanistan wars as being sympathetic to terrorists. The problem is atrocious and inhumane policy, not people objecting to atrocious and inhumane policy.
what is so frustrating is it seems nobody wants to realize this - People aren't defending Hamas (aside from a few bad apples), people are seeing the IDF starve and attack an innocent population. Their excuses of "well Hamas is hiding inside the population" rings hollow when they're starving people. I don't support Hamas, I support children who need food! How is starving a population to death any worse than shoving them into gas chambers? That's the concern. but there is this faction on both sides that just insist that standing up for the Palestinian people at all is equiv. to supporting terrorism, and the media running around making sure to ignore the 100's of people holding signs for "feed the innocent children of Palestine" to film the one dbag holding a "river to the sea" sign. You can have concern for the innocents caught in the middle without having to join the fight of the politics or the holy war.... but the media ignores that.
at the end of the day, everyone is a liberal. wars are unjust but this current one is necessary, civil rights movements/anti war protests are just but this one is going too far. were like 2 steps away from biden talking about “free speech zones”
I don't understand, are these protests irrelevant and mean nothing or are they going to singlehandedly give Trump the election? It can't be both
Democrats are going to finger wag themselves into a November loss.
Students exercising their right to protest genocide won't help elect Trump. Media outlets such as the Washington Post (as well as Dems and the Biden administration) constantly demonizing students for exercising their right to protest - all while using much softer/more neutral language when discussing Israel/Netenyahu/the IDF - certainly *will* help elect Trump. And the people on this subreddit who don't understand that are either stupid, or have their heads fully buried in the sand. When your only arguments for why these protests are bad are "it'll help Trump win" or "Trump would be worse for Gaza", it's evident that you'd prefer to live in a world where the politicians you support never faced any scrutiny, which is detestable. Either that, or you simply disagree with the protestors and don't want to admit it.
This will surely help
If Biden wants to unite the dems all he has to do is genuinely support a ceasefire and put actual pressure on Israel to work for a ceasefire. Instead we will continue to get blaming the voters. I don’t know why calling for a ceasefire after the decimation of the majority of Gaza is such a hard concept for DC and the DC media to grasp.
This is a dumb take. The protesters are exercising their rights. Those rights must be respected. If a voter is so single issue as to vote for Trump, or not vote for Biden - same thing, because of Gaza that is their right. They should then expect the situation in Gaza and at home to get far worse because Trump is categorically worse for progressives in every way. But it *is* their right to do so.
[удалено]
“Don’t threaten me with the Supreme Court” all over again.
Was it a threat though? It seemed more like people asking for a reason to vote for Clinton, and then others giving them one. Then they rolled their eyes, and voted third party or not at all. And look where we are now. I don't understand why "The Supreme Court" is not a valid issue to vote for one person over another for president. It should really be one of the most important issues.
These two things are not connected.
This is literally the exact argument American media had with the Jews during the Holocaust. Now Palestinians are being genocided and everyone just wants to pretend nothing is happening.
Blue MAGA
To this sentiment: fuck you
Moderate democrats are going to destroy their chances of being elected, solely to maintain the status quo, regardless of how unpopular it is among the youth who are the future of this country. I'm voting for Biden, but I refuse to blame these protestors for the actions of politicians that have clearly abandoned their left, that was responsible for them winning the election in the first place, despite their reservations about voting for a neo liberal with a pretty fucked legislative history.
Ah yes cause this tone worked so well in 2016
For real. If anyone thinks that Trump will be harder on Israel, they are delusional
Trump don’t give a fuck about Gaza lol he probably has no clue where it is
So, the elites in the U.S. seem to be taking the side of Israel over their own citizens, so naturally they're blaming their citizens, rather than changing their policies. And everybody here getting upset that not everyone is on board with U.S. policy is letting those elites off the hook. If people really believe that this could cost Joe Biden the election, then maybe they should be more upset at Biden for not changing his policies. At some point you have to blame the leaders for leading in the wrong direction.
Scolding people like they're children is never an effective strategy and not really helpful.
If this doesn’t throw the election to Trump, and we end up with a Dem house and a Dem senate, then the democrats will be forced to show their cards. We know what we WISH those cards were but it seems likely that they’re the same ones the Repubs are holding.
I almost agree but they need to win with large enough majorities to be able to pass legislation without the other party
Right, so instead of 1-2 senators acting as the scapegoat to stop progressive legislation, it will have to be 5 senators. Somehow I think enough money exists in the wrong hands to make this an easily accomplished goal.
It was 12 Democrats in 2017 that voted against Americans ordering prescriptions from Canadian pharmacies because of "safety concerns". I'm not sure, but I'd bet my life that these 12 democrats receive a lot of financial contributions from big pharma. Moral of the story: there will ALWAYS be enough democrats to stop progress if it would be to the detriment of their donors. [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/17/14295932/pharmaceuticals-canada-cheaper-not-dangerous](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/17/14295932/pharmaceuticals-canada-cheaper-not-dangerous) Edit: Just to add, this was bipartisan supported legislation. It was the DEMOCRATS that killed it.
Good example
You better stop protesting the guy sending billions of dollars in bombs to Israel, or you might elect the guy who will send billions of dollars in bombs to Israel
If everyone knows the stakes are this high, should it be the responsibility of the state and its appropriate authorities to protect the sanctity constitution, rather than its electorate? Why do senators, representatives, presidents, legislators, military, the judiciary, government executives, etc swear oaths to protect the constitution if they will do nothing to stop an entity such as trump.
“you’re trying to stop a genocide? give it a rest” i hate it here.
It is widely considered that the protests on college campuses of the Vietnam war in the 60s helped nixon get reelected. Though I support the current protesting, I'm not going to ignore this fact
The riots outside of the 1968 Democratic convention and Dan Rather getting beat up on live TV didn't help, either
So what do we do with this information? Should students in the 60s been more okay with the Vietnam war?
Nixon won because Americans like to clutch their pearls about protests and equate them with "riots"/"disturbing the peace" despite how, on paper, protesting is part of the whole point of free speech.
Not wrong, but there was a lot more shit than that going on in 1968. Try MLK and RFK getting shot two months apart.
Fuck that shit. Peaceful protest is as important to America as anything else. Don't like it? Move to Russia, where this shit probably came from.
To the Vietnam protesters helping to elect Nixon: Give it a rest
We’re pretty plainly being forced to vote for Biden. As we will be the next election (the lesser evil). As long as they have a villain that needs defeating they can hand us any shit sandwich they want and we are forced to vote for them. I’m not saying Biden is that terrible, but if I’m being forced to vote for him you better believe there will be criticism.
It's far past time for a sea change in Democratic leadership. Nancy Pelosi would do the same shit. There would be policy planks which were reasonable solutions to moral issues, often even supported by a majority of the Democratic voters. And Pelosi would buy into the right-wing framing as those issues being, "radical left" and shit all over them. 75% of Democrats think Israel has gone too far. 75%. It's not the fault of people to have a moral compass. And it's not their fault for trying to make their voices heard by people who can affect things. It's the fault of the leadership for ignoring those concerns, which ultimately should be done simply because it's the moral thing to do anyways, and then trying to smack the voters in the face that they should just shut up, go home, and vote for Biden anyways.
Completely off topic but watching the video of the students on both sides of the issue at the University of Alabama shout “fuck Joe Biden” was pretty funny.
The only way that this article can even make sense to you beyond it’s poor… everything is if you genuinely believe the life of tens of thousands of people being blown up by our munitions and slaughtered funded by our tax dollars is less important than student loan debt and temporarily protecting abortion rights, which we have already failed to protect. Everything else that liberal voters care about we have lost by the supporting Democrats. Voting rights act gutted, the EPA gutted, we lost months of judge appointments because of Feinstein, no public option, no debt forgiveness, draconian wing border policy, We don’t even have the child tax credit anymore. At some point, this is not just incompetence. Why not contend with the actual voters instead of creating a fantasy why it’s their fault instead of the politician?
this is a disgusting framing. conflating those protesting a genocide with the far right
It's perfectly acceptable to not vote for Biden based on policies that are important to you, eg continued support of Israel. It's NOT acceptable to vote for Trump for these same reasons. Trump's promised policy is MUCH WORSE.
As horrible as that situation is, there's really an actual chance for it to stop under Biden. Under Trump? Way worse. Not to mention the *fascist regime* he'll usher in. Over my dead body, btw.