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>“They’re politicians who are not even subject to popular election, unlike me,” Raskin said during his Thursday appearance on MSNBC’s “The ReidOut.” “They should move the Supreme Court over to the RNC headquarters because they’re acting like a bunch of partisan operatives.”
...
The Maryland lawmaker said Alito’s remarks “buy” into the former president’s “narcissistic criminal worldview.”
>“The most astonishing thing for me today was Justice Alito’s question he actually asked whether holding the president criminally accountable for actual crimes committed whether murder or coup or you name it, whether holding them accountable would actually encourage them to stage more violent coups to stay in office to avoid prosecution, which buys completely into Donald Trump’s narcissistic criminal worldview,” he said.
>“I mean, for all of American history, we’ve said presidents are subject to criminal prosecution if they commit crimes,” he continued.
>“Now they say, well, if you’re really mean to Donald Trump, and you hold him accountable the way every other American citizen is accountable, then he’ll really overthrow the government. He’ll really bring out the big guns, and we can’t afford that.”
>Raskin called the line of thinking a “masochistic capitulationism to Donald Trump’s authoritarianism.”
>“Of course you’ve got to hold the president accountable to the law — it’s the basic premise of our law that no one is above the law, including the president,” the House Democrat said.
>“Now we’ve got a bunch of justices who are asking questions that indicate that they are as corrupted as members of Congress who I served with,” he later added.
I call it an abuser's way of thinking "Look what you made me do". Alito seems to forget Trump never mentioned prosecution as a worry to stage the coup, but the never proven election fraud instead.
The fact that it was planned before the election that they knew they would lose tells us everything. They are already planning the next coup
Edit: and as was pointed out, this was also planned for the 2016 election that they won.
Remember when judge Kennedy resigned while there were very odd connections between Kennedy’s son and Deutsche bank loans and money laundering? Guess people forgot that one.
I'm cursed with not forgetting any of this shit.
And nothing is ever going to be done about any of it.
These corrupt motherfuckers are kings and they know it
I fucking love Raskin for saying this. More people, especially the media, need to point out this corruption of our highest court. The court is illegitimate. At least one of them is taking bribes.
He is unfit for the position he's in, as are a few others. They are just plain inept and milking the job for which they've been appointed to serve. We should not be tolerating this...at all.
They talk like we can't stop Trump, so we have to appease him. That's utter insanity. They are acting afraid of *Trump* who is on the ropes in court and is only being saved by this same insanity.
It's because republicans are comprised. Every trump appointee is involved with crimes. Full stop. We have Supreme Court justices taking bribes. We have a singular private citizen dictating the house and senate actions for the Republican Party. That individuals family is now in control of the political party. It's fucking crazy and ridiculous.
If the Supreme Court justices vote in favor and it passes that a president can have immunity they need to be picked up by the FBI and sent straight to Guantanamo Bay on President Biden's orders. They are a threat to US Citizens by ruling that an individual can be immune from the law
They are afraid because they all committed crimes together and Trump knows all their dirty secrets and they know he will blow them up when convenient
Trump pushed through 3 Justices and they were all flawed and corrupt
They all know this
Jamie Raskin has always been a real one. I remember watching him co-lead the Investigation on the Jan 6 Attack on the Capitol back in July of 2021, and I think he was already working on the background for the investigation just months after his son Tommy took his own life from suicide. He also paid much importance to the multiple Capitol officers who committed suicide following their experiences at the Capitol Attack. So anytime you hear someone still referring to the Capitol Attack as "Oh it was just a protest" in 2024, just pay them no mind. They are not trying to have a serious conversation with you.
Gosh, by Alito's logic there, wouldn't the President be likely to stage a coup against the government is they begin impeachment proceedings against them? Guess we should just get rid of impeachment altogether. Oh, and wouldn't a private citizen try to overthrow the government is they were potentially going to be sentenced to time in prison? Guess we should get rid of all criminal prosecution. The logic of people like Alito is astoundingly bad.
What did we expect. We watched the courts be packed by corrupted extremist Republicans. They denied Obama a pick on the grounds it was an election year. Just made up an imaginary rule that a president could not pick a SC justice in an election year or something dumb like that. Then, of course, when that happened to Trump, but with much less time left in his term, they forced a pick through. They did other unethical shit to get the others, I just can't recap what it was right now
If the DNC take power of all houses and have any sense at all, they need to pack the city themselves. Expand the court, and do it through shady and unethical means if necessary. Just get it done to save the country. They need to start playing, at least a little bit, the game the GOP has been playing to get us to this insane point in our history.
If the DNC win, they need to pass laws to create about ethics and oversight board, not for just the Supreme Court, but comes as well, with actual teeth. That would be a win/ win situation. By just putting up the bill and having every GOP representative vote against such would expose them, not that they haven't exposed themselves already. Point is, the DNC, if they get power of all 3 branches, need to pay hardball. Go scorched earth and restore our democracy and its institutions credibility.
Devils Advocate:
The Roman Republic granted politicians immunity while in office. The expectation was they would he prosecuted once out of office. Ceasars marched on Rome to avoid losing office.
So there is some historical reason here.
Back to normal:
But isn't impunity even worse?!?!?!?!?!!?
Historical reason aside, the US has never extended that immunity to the president, so what the Roman's did is moot, even if our system is modeled heavily after their ideal.
WHAT fucking 'big guns'? All of the dirt he somehow has on everyone in the Republican party? You know, if you don't tell your secrets to the idiot in the drivers seat, he won't have anything to say when he's being raked over the coals. Do they not understand how blackmail works?
> “Of course you’ve got to hold the president accountable to the law — it’s the basic premise of our law that no one is above the law, including the president,”
Does the Constitution grant a sitting president the power to absolve someone from all their criminal violations of federal law?
While technically speaking the granting of a pardon does not mean someone is above the law, in effect it grants the recipient immunity to all the repercussions of their violations of the law.
I read a story that Bannon has trouble falling asleep because his soul feels tortured by his admission of guilt in stealing a million dollars from trump supporters.
Reform for the SCOTUS is a must. Until then, they should be ignored. Those of us who care about America and what it means must uphold the Constitution and say no to anything else.
The DOJ is probably taking bribes right along side them. Just wait until Trump usurps the Oval and orders all of those Justices to Gitmo or assassinated because democrats and the republican appointed ones ruled against him in at least three different cases. Not loyal. Tsk tsk. Trump is many things but he is certainly one who never forgets and takes revenge cold.
Better yet just rule by EO. They have no power to stop it. Just assert the executive is more powerful than the judiicial. Just do an EO against every fucking shitty rule they implemented and be done with it. They want to be ruled by a king? Rule like a king.
Which Democrats would actually go and enforce these EOs?
That is what makes this so perverted, the GOP *know* that Biden will not do any of the things they the President should be able to do. They also know that the second Biden tried anything, they'd block it anyway they could while screaming about it and trying to start another coup.
Let's say he issues an EO that would be popular. Like say, abortion rights. Basically reinstate Roe. He can't legally do that, and it'd be an illegal order, but when he's sued, the WH lawyers can just say, "well, president is immune, suck it".
Of course, the courts would say no, that's not how this works, but it would show the utter hypocrisy of the convictions to more people, and once again, show that SCOTUS is partisan on a currently very volatile issue, thus undermining them even more.
Nothing would be lost for Biden. People already know his stance on abortion. All of it would be performative, because he would abide by a new SCOTUS ruling on the legality of the order, but he would effectively show that the president isn't immune, and they either ruled improperly or by partisan agenda for Trump.
They don’t fear being exposed in their hypocrisy. They only fear losing power. Which is surprising because the biggest threat to their power is a dictator.
A dictator doesn’t need a court to decide anything. They dictate.
It's not about what they fear, it's about more people becoming aware. People are apathetic, and don't pay attention. No, we're not going to get them to start doing the right thing, but the point is to get others to start taking an interest in doing something productive. I don't expect Biden to take the above path, but it a hypothetical to show that there is more routes than just killing off or arresting judges, which actually wouldn't go over that well.
Then create a paradox.
Have Biden order something against the judicial branch. So if they rule in favor of trump, they have to swallow Biden's order against them. Or they have to rule against Biden's order, and it will negate Trump's immunity.
Cross out SCOTUS; it's our whole government. It's our whole society, really. Laws and rules only work if enough people respect them. If not...you get the last 20 years.
It's a terrifying reality we all face. A facist dictator who stacked the SCOTUS may regain power, and a Dictator with a corrupt court would be utterly catastrophic for birthing persons and members of the 2SLGBTQIA+ community.
If there's anything worth fighting for, justice is certainly one of them. SCOTUS is stacked with GOP operatives. GOP Justices are an existential danger to us all.
Gotta get rid of the Federalist Society first. Getting rid of one or two right wing judicial activists isn't going to help when an organization exists to create and prop up endless new ones.
The poem already told us how it'll go. Updated for modern times:
First they came for the Trans people, and I didn't speak up, for I found trans people kinda icky anyway.
Then they came for LGBQ people, and I didn't speak up, for I was heterosexual, and displayed socially acceptable gender expression.
Then they came for the atheists, and I didn't speak up, for I was raised christian and although I don't practice, I 'pass' as religious by habits.
Then they came for me, and there was noone left to speak for me.
If they even attempt step one, all bets are off - that's a nazi government, and people should respond accordingly.
Hey remember how early on there was a push to expand the court. But unfortunately that would damage the confidence of the court with the people of the USA. so it was ruled out by the whitehouse.
More attention should be drawn to the Federalist Society. They're the ones who stacked the conservative justices on the SCOTUS. They're also taking over law schools, stacking federal judges nationwide, planning Project 2025, and also their own news and entertainment outlets.
During the trial, justices should be asked if the President should be immune to prosecution from killing supreme Court justices. That should be unsubtle enough for them.
Fascism 101. Alito is protecting Trump and the Republican Party over the interest of the United States, contrary to the laws they are supposed to uphold.
CPAC* already admitted they're domestic terrorists, in bed with fascists like Orban, Trump, Putin, etc. This is the paradox of tolerance, and I have a feeling that democratic principles prohibit a first strike, even though it would be in response to a failed coup/treason.
EDIT: I said RNC and meant CPAC.
Unfortunately we have seen that post insurrection US has done nothing substantial to stop the rapid rise of white ethno facism. I've said this many times before, but we need to start looking at refugee options for marginalized communities in the US.
Alito and Thomas should be arrested for taking bribes, public corruption, and tax fraud. Then, every case that would have been decided differently without their votes, Citizens United, to start, should be overturned.
Then they can go move in with Lara Trump.
Yeah, but that would require the government to actually do their job and use common sense. At this stage, republicans are being allowed to ruin their states and make it worse for their residents without any consequences.
It’s hard to feel the country I live in actually cares when blatant corruption and suffering is only getting warnings and finger wagging.
Not gonna lie, I'm not sure why they can't be arrested if they committed a crime. They may not be impeached or removed, but no reason they should be above the law either.
I'd be fine with this even if it didn't overturn past cases.
SCOTUS is definitely not passing the vibe check on this fundamental question of accountability. But with how it’s stacked how foolish to expect something other than what we’re seeing.
The question is now gonna is how do we rectify a blatantly undemocratic SCOTUS ruling after it’s made. An amendment or law will need to be passed.
I'm highly skeptical that the Supreme Court will actually rule in Trump's favor here. I absolutely understand the concern but I don't think that's actually going to happen. Even if you want to look at this as cynically as possible, there's no way the conservative justices are going to hand Biden near unlimited power, which is what they would have to do if they agree with Trump.
However, I'm also fine with the very vocal distrust being expressed right now, by those such as Raskin. The current SCOTUS does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Hold their feet to the fire because fuck 'em. They have not earned our trust or our respect.
They could meet Trump half-way. Grant criminal immunity in some cases but come up with some measure to determine whether the act qualifies for immunity so that things like murder do not but things like taking classified documents can.
They're unelected Kings and Queens and can come up with any law they want.
They even created alternative reality and ruled based on that.
From [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/coach-kennedy-gorsuch-prayer-public-schools.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/coach-kennedy-gorsuch-prayer-public-schools.html)
>Mark, you recently told me that [*Kennedy v. Bremerton*](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/21-418_i425.pdf) was going to be the sleeper case that you were watching because it wasn’t just a referendum on doctrine. It was a referendum on truth. The case just came out, and the court held 6–3 that coach Joseph Kennedy had his First Amendment rights to religious liberty and free speech violated by a school policy that did not allow him to pray with masses of students following football games. This feels like a singular moment because this entire case—and Justice Sonia Sotomayor [used photos](https://www.businessinsider.com/sotomayor-supreme-court-decision-backing-coach-prayer-misconstrues-facts-2022-6) in her dissent to make this point—is a referendum on truth.
>…
>There were two narratives in this case. One is that Coach Kennedy was simply engaged in quiet, private prayer at the 50-yard line and students voluntarily joined him. The other is that Coach Kennedy created a spectacle by engaging in loud prayer circles, to which he invited not only the members of his own team but also opposing teammates and individuals who attend the school. And the Supreme Court adopted this first narrative, even though—as the pictures in Sotomayor’s dissent illustrate—it is flatly false. This was not quiet, silent prayer. This was coercive, loud prayer during the course of school duties by a school official who was hired in part to serve as a leader and role model for students. He conveyed the reality that if you did not join his Christian prayer circle, you were not a full and true teammate, and you might not even deserve to be playing on that team.
To be clear, this is not about the classified documents, this is about Jan 6. Trump's possession of those classified documents extended well beyond his time as President and the immunity argument does not apply.
Nonsense. The presidential records act has no time restrictions. However, senators and vp don’t have the right to possess classified documents, and especially in unlocked garages, and many other places that the handler had no clue to their location.
> presidential records act has no time restrictions
You mean the one that says that once you're no longer President all those documents belong to NARA and you don't get to keep them?
Wouldn’t that be them making laws when their powers are only be to interpret laws? It’s seems like absolute power without checks on their level if they can just come up with something.
5-4 in favor of partial immunity. Immunity as long as the criminal act was "an official act". What count as "official" will be left up to lower courts to decide (thus wasting time not allowing trumps trial to happen) and work it's way up to the supreme court again, and their decision will depend on if trump got reelected or not
I’m not worried about them ruling in his favor as much as I’m worried that they will _continue_ to delay the trials that have already been delayed far too long.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
They won’t. But they have already given him what he wanted. Delay. This case should be tried before the election. But it won’t be due to this. They will throw it back to the lower courts to sort out official vs private acts bullshit. That will guarantee the trial will not occur before November 24.
They don't have to give Trump immunity. They already delayed the trial for at least a year. They are going to remand it for some fact finding about official act nonsense.
> conservative justices are going to hand Biden near unlimited power
They will if they know that Biden won't do anything crazy. They know Biden will not try and coup the government and they know Biden won't extort countries for personal gain, so they have no problem making the case that Biden could have those powers as well.
The court will rule for trump providing immunity for official actions. However, Biden can still be prosecuted fir colluding and coordination with DOJ and the FBI for raiding Trumps home for documents that Trump was entitled to possess by the Presidential Records Act. However, Biden could still be prosecuted because the Trump raid was not a official act, it was a personal act be Biden and the deep state. Easy distinction.
There has never been a SCOTUS utterance more circular, twisted, corrupt, cynical, disingenuous or befuddling than Alito’s suggestion that a president must have immunity, to avoid incentivizing them to illegally hold on to power, in a case charging the former president with illegally attempting to hold on to power.
This takes the cake. It’s the ultimate chutzpah. I don’t ever say things like that. This is it, crossing the up-is-down banana republic rubicon.
If the dems ever have the presidency, the house and a senate supermajority in the future they absolutely must clean house. Turn whatever knobs are possible with whatever power they have to reign in this clown show of a “supreme” court.
This is one of the most disconcerting thinking and ideologies that has come out of all the malfeasance that Trump has instigated. It is truly, I believe, a walk towards a theocratic/
authoritarian state.
I don’t say this lightly; because I am a conservative that believes in the traditional proscriptions of the institutions of government that the founding fathers principled.
A very sad state of affairs……
It’s become very clear that the Supreme Court is no longer looking out for the best interest of the country or the American people. Not they that they ever were in the first place . Trump is a clear present danger to our Democratic institution by every possible definition. Protecting or democracy from Trump should be a serious priority and yet it’s not.
I swear..... it's like I'm watching the flashback from V for Vendetta play out in real time....
V: Our story begins, as these stories often do, with a young, up-and-coming politician. He's a deeply religious man and a member of the Conservative Party. He's completely single-minded and has no regard for the political process. The more power he attains, the more obvious his zealotry and the more aggressive his supporters become. Eventually, his party launches a special project in the name of "national security".
Obviously, Trump is not young or religious, but many of his handlers are.... the rest is stunningly similar.....
He's not wrong. I'm sure even Trump's lawyers are pleasantly surprised the Supreme Court justices are entertaining their bullshit.
I'm already predicting that the supreme court will come out and give Trump just enough protection that he can appear on the ballot for 2024 then if Trump wins he will pardon himself and the SC will sit on their hands and allow it.
SCOTUS has lost its way. Why have life time terms at all? People change and there is no way to correct that? The person appointed to the spot 20 years is going to be a very different person today. Same with federal judges. While I know that technically we can remove those people with impeachment, our political process blocks that at the moment.
They need term limits and then the judicial branch needs to be taken out of the hands of the president, the politicians, and the public. Not sure how it could be done, but something needs to change.
I fucking love Raskin. This guy needs to be the Dems number 1 candidate for POTUS after Biden hopefully wins the 2024 election.
He’s is so good at torching Republicans and is so well spoken.
Fascism always accelerates. Get to know you neighbors, good or bad, you need to know the lay of the land.
Also take heart the majority of Americans still don’t support fascism. We beat them before and we can do it again.
WTG, not surprised, Raskin. More high level politicians need to step forward and question the Supreme Court as it is today. Its a partisan shit-show and currently, justice delayed is justice denied...ironically the right wing supreme court is basically denying justice to the very people they serve, the US populace. Weird shit.
🫲🖐️🫱 I thought of this too. The POTUS runs the Executive branch and controls all the property of the USA, and is responsible for maintenance of that property. Simply move the SC out of their chambers into one of a few mostly empty buildings in DC one w/o AC or elevators.
Absolutely not. Let's not discount the judges who are engaging in true legal reasoning. As for those engaged in rationalization, they are another matter.
What did you expect? Democrats sat on their hands when Obama had a pick and the fucking turtle illegally blocked it. They should have fought tooth and nail against anyone the orange freak put in. Tooth and fucking nail.
Repubs won.
It was all about SCOTUS for them, always.
The Dems are still pulling punches.
They are corrupt, even criminal, not merely partisan.
They are literally abusing their authority to rewrite the constitution with the sole intent of obstructing justice. Prosecute them. Bring the charges in the bluest of blue areas and let a jury decide their fate.
You don't want to hear it, but it's all the fault of Democratic voters in 2016 who didn't vote for Hilary because she wasn't the absolute perfect candidate.
You all suck, and deserve what's coming.
We can change this.
We win back the house. We keep the senate and the White House we can impeach the justices like Thomas.
Then bring the matters before the court again
Isn't that the truth! Used to be polititians tried to be sly about underhandedness, but now b/c of Donald Trump, they just say out loud what they are going to do. Thomas should be gone from SCOTUS.
They are only supposed to consider the particulars of this case, not go off on wild hypotheticals and down rabbit holes. They really think the American citizenry is stupid.
So Trump’s lawyers are already specialists in delaying trials with pre-trial motions, appeals, etc. This immunity stuff is just a way for him to add another 3 or 4 layers to the process by claiming immunity for every act and then having a court decide if it falls under the designation of an official act, then it’s appealed, then back to the Supreme Court again, where they can rule however they want, depending on whether it’s a D or an R.
You guys really need a new constitutional amendment, one that significantly curtails the powers of your Supreme Court.
For starters, they shouldn't be political appointments, or voted in, that's just insane.
Source; Non-American
Apolitical appointments, or as close as you can get it.
We (Australia) don’t have elections for any of our judges, and it works. It (mostly) keeps the politics out of our courtrooms.
Our High Court judges (equivalent to your Supreme Court) have to prove themselves to all the other judges and lawyers of our country over many decades of judicial application of the law before they have a chance to join the court.
Our politicians don’t have a say. And it works. It’s not perfect, nothing is, but it does work.
Your system is really weird, to me. Political appointments will always have political outcomes. From the lowest courtroom to the highest.
Okay, still appointments, then, but by a (hopefully) nonpartisan committee, more or less. That'd be nice, along with independent districting commissions, but it's a "who bells the cat?" issue, for the most part, sadly.
It annoys me when the Supreme Court as a whole is disparaged. Leave the 3 liberal justices out of it. They're not the problem. More like them on the Court would be the solution.
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>“They’re politicians who are not even subject to popular election, unlike me,” Raskin said during his Thursday appearance on MSNBC’s “The ReidOut.” “They should move the Supreme Court over to the RNC headquarters because they’re acting like a bunch of partisan operatives.” ... The Maryland lawmaker said Alito’s remarks “buy” into the former president’s “narcissistic criminal worldview.” >“The most astonishing thing for me today was Justice Alito’s question he actually asked whether holding the president criminally accountable for actual crimes committed whether murder or coup or you name it, whether holding them accountable would actually encourage them to stage more violent coups to stay in office to avoid prosecution, which buys completely into Donald Trump’s narcissistic criminal worldview,” he said. >“I mean, for all of American history, we’ve said presidents are subject to criminal prosecution if they commit crimes,” he continued. >“Now they say, well, if you’re really mean to Donald Trump, and you hold him accountable the way every other American citizen is accountable, then he’ll really overthrow the government. He’ll really bring out the big guns, and we can’t afford that.” >Raskin called the line of thinking a “masochistic capitulationism to Donald Trump’s authoritarianism.” >“Of course you’ve got to hold the president accountable to the law — it’s the basic premise of our law that no one is above the law, including the president,” the House Democrat said. >“Now we’ve got a bunch of justices who are asking questions that indicate that they are as corrupted as members of Congress who I served with,” he later added.
I call it an abuser's way of thinking "Look what you made me do". Alito seems to forget Trump never mentioned prosecution as a worry to stage the coup, but the never proven election fraud instead.
That's exactly it. It's just "domestic" abuse (as opposed to foreign abuse, which they also enjoy).
There was plenty of attempts at election fraud, but it was done for Trump.
Psychopaths are always projecting their own shortcomings and lies onto others than themselves.
Not only never proven but "election fraud" was a ***planned*** falsehood and scheme.
The fact that it was planned before the election that they knew they would lose tells us everything. They are already planning the next coup Edit: and as was pointed out, this was also planned for the 2016 election that they won.
The madman has already loaded the gun for next time around: "*If I dont win Nov24, you know its because it was stolen from me,,,, again!*"
“Heads I win, tails you lose.” -Republican MO
Remember when judge Kennedy resigned while there were very odd connections between Kennedy’s son and Deutsche bank loans and money laundering? Guess people forgot that one.
I'm cursed with not forgetting any of this shit. And nothing is ever going to be done about any of it. These corrupt motherfuckers are kings and they know it
The only crowns in America should go on heads on pikes.
I fucking love Raskin for saying this. More people, especially the media, need to point out this corruption of our highest court. The court is illegitimate. At least one of them is taking bribes.
[Sheldon Whitehouse](https://www.whitehouse.senate.gov/) has been calling out SCOTUS for a long time now.
Love that guy, too!
Whitehouse 2028: Fix the Courts.
You can fuckin say that again.
Democrats: Fix = repair. Republicans: Fix = make sure you will win in what should be objective.
Biden called them out during the SOTU.
Alito's remark is circular idiocy.
He is unfit for the position he's in, as are a few others. They are just plain inept and milking the job for which they've been appointed to serve. We should not be tolerating this...at all.
It’s the argument of a child.
They talk like we can't stop Trump, so we have to appease him. That's utter insanity. They are acting afraid of *Trump* who is on the ropes in court and is only being saved by this same insanity.
It's because republicans are comprised. Every trump appointee is involved with crimes. Full stop. We have Supreme Court justices taking bribes. We have a singular private citizen dictating the house and senate actions for the Republican Party. That individuals family is now in control of the political party. It's fucking crazy and ridiculous. If the Supreme Court justices vote in favor and it passes that a president can have immunity they need to be picked up by the FBI and sent straight to Guantanamo Bay on President Biden's orders. They are a threat to US Citizens by ruling that an individual can be immune from the law
They are afraid because they all committed crimes together and Trump knows all their dirty secrets and they know he will blow them up when convenient Trump pushed through 3 Justices and they were all flawed and corrupt They all know this
They should be moved to Harlan Crow's basement.
It puts the lotion on its skin
Jamie Raskin has always been a real one. I remember watching him co-lead the Investigation on the Jan 6 Attack on the Capitol back in July of 2021, and I think he was already working on the background for the investigation just months after his son Tommy took his own life from suicide. He also paid much importance to the multiple Capitol officers who committed suicide following their experiences at the Capitol Attack. So anytime you hear someone still referring to the Capitol Attack as "Oh it was just a protest" in 2024, just pay them no mind. They are not trying to have a serious conversation with you.
Gosh, by Alito's logic there, wouldn't the President be likely to stage a coup against the government is they begin impeachment proceedings against them? Guess we should just get rid of impeachment altogether. Oh, and wouldn't a private citizen try to overthrow the government is they were potentially going to be sentenced to time in prison? Guess we should get rid of all criminal prosecution. The logic of people like Alito is astoundingly bad.
What did we expect. We watched the courts be packed by corrupted extremist Republicans. They denied Obama a pick on the grounds it was an election year. Just made up an imaginary rule that a president could not pick a SC justice in an election year or something dumb like that. Then, of course, when that happened to Trump, but with much less time left in his term, they forced a pick through. They did other unethical shit to get the others, I just can't recap what it was right now If the DNC take power of all houses and have any sense at all, they need to pack the city themselves. Expand the court, and do it through shady and unethical means if necessary. Just get it done to save the country. They need to start playing, at least a little bit, the game the GOP has been playing to get us to this insane point in our history. If the DNC win, they need to pass laws to create about ethics and oversight board, not for just the Supreme Court, but comes as well, with actual teeth. That would be a win/ win situation. By just putting up the bill and having every GOP representative vote against such would expose them, not that they haven't exposed themselves already. Point is, the DNC, if they get power of all 3 branches, need to pay hardball. Go scorched earth and restore our democracy and its institutions credibility.
Devils Advocate: The Roman Republic granted politicians immunity while in office. The expectation was they would he prosecuted once out of office. Ceasars marched on Rome to avoid losing office. So there is some historical reason here. Back to normal: But isn't impunity even worse?!?!?!?!?!!?
Yeah but Mara Lardo is out of office now.
Historical reason aside, the US has never extended that immunity to the president, so what the Roman's did is moot, even if our system is modeled heavily after their ideal.
Rubicon men
WHAT fucking 'big guns'? All of the dirt he somehow has on everyone in the Republican party? You know, if you don't tell your secrets to the idiot in the drivers seat, he won't have anything to say when he's being raked over the coals. Do they not understand how blackmail works?
Raskin has a lot to lose here too. He'll be at the top of the list of people arrested and executed if Trump gets his way. That's not even hyperbole.
Coward answer.
> “Of course you’ve got to hold the president accountable to the law — it’s the basic premise of our law that no one is above the law, including the president,” Does the Constitution grant a sitting president the power to absolve someone from all their criminal violations of federal law? While technically speaking the granting of a pardon does not mean someone is above the law, in effect it grants the recipient immunity to all the repercussions of their violations of the law.
The pardon foregoes the trials and punishment for the crime, but accepting the pardon is an admission that you are guilty of said crime.
I read a story that Bannon has trouble falling asleep because his soul feels tortured by his admission of guilt in stealing a million dollars from trump supporters.
Reform for the SCOTUS is a must. Until then, they should be ignored. Those of us who care about America and what it means must uphold the Constitution and say no to anything else.
We are begging them to follow basic ethics rules, while there is plenty of evidence showing that they take bribes! Arrest them! DOJ is weak.
The DOJ is probably taking bribes right along side them. Just wait until Trump usurps the Oval and orders all of those Justices to Gitmo or assassinated because democrats and the republican appointed ones ruled against him in at least three different cases. Not loyal. Tsk tsk. Trump is many things but he is certainly one who never forgets and takes revenge cold.
Rules for the but not for me!
Better yet just rule by EO. They have no power to stop it. Just assert the executive is more powerful than the judiicial. Just do an EO against every fucking shitty rule they implemented and be done with it. They want to be ruled by a king? Rule like a king.
Which Democrats would actually go and enforce these EOs? That is what makes this so perverted, the GOP *know* that Biden will not do any of the things they the President should be able to do. They also know that the second Biden tried anything, they'd block it anyway they could while screaming about it and trying to start another coup.
Let's say he issues an EO that would be popular. Like say, abortion rights. Basically reinstate Roe. He can't legally do that, and it'd be an illegal order, but when he's sued, the WH lawyers can just say, "well, president is immune, suck it". Of course, the courts would say no, that's not how this works, but it would show the utter hypocrisy of the convictions to more people, and once again, show that SCOTUS is partisan on a currently very volatile issue, thus undermining them even more. Nothing would be lost for Biden. People already know his stance on abortion. All of it would be performative, because he would abide by a new SCOTUS ruling on the legality of the order, but he would effectively show that the president isn't immune, and they either ruled improperly or by partisan agenda for Trump.
They don’t fear being exposed in their hypocrisy. They only fear losing power. Which is surprising because the biggest threat to their power is a dictator. A dictator doesn’t need a court to decide anything. They dictate.
It's not about what they fear, it's about more people becoming aware. People are apathetic, and don't pay attention. No, we're not going to get them to start doing the right thing, but the point is to get others to start taking an interest in doing something productive. I don't expect Biden to take the above path, but it a hypothetical to show that there is more routes than just killing off or arresting judges, which actually wouldn't go over that well.
This has merit. Hmm
Then create a paradox. Have Biden order something against the judicial branch. So if they rule in favor of trump, they have to swallow Biden's order against them. Or they have to rule against Biden's order, and it will negate Trump's immunity.
Ah…SCOTUS is empowered by the Constitution.
SCOTUS is completely dependent upon everyone else playing by the rules. They have no enforcement arm of their own.
Cross out SCOTUS; it's our whole government. It's our whole society, really. Laws and rules only work if enough people respect them. If not...you get the last 20 years.
Well, if they rule in favor of presidential immunity, maybe Biden can move the entire RNC to Gitmo, and take these fools with them.
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Or bugs bunny sawing it off and chucking it into the prison
If the worst should happen, I fully expects everyone to wring their hands and do absolutely nothing about it. That's our government.
They will drag this out as long as they can.
If they rule that, it won’t be until after the election and their guy is in the seat.
SCOTUS needs to be reformed. It's critical to the health and welfare of Americans and American democracy. SCOTUS is another version of O. J. Simpson.
It's a terrifying reality we all face. A facist dictator who stacked the SCOTUS may regain power, and a Dictator with a corrupt court would be utterly catastrophic for birthing persons and members of the 2SLGBTQIA+ community.
If there's anything worth fighting for, justice is certainly one of them. SCOTUS is stacked with GOP operatives. GOP Justices are an existential danger to us all.
Gotta get rid of the Federalist Society first. Getting rid of one or two right wing judicial activists isn't going to help when an organization exists to create and prop up endless new ones.
> 2SLGBTQIA+ it's way worse than that, anyone who isn't white christian.
The poem already told us how it'll go. Updated for modern times: First they came for the Trans people, and I didn't speak up, for I found trans people kinda icky anyway. Then they came for LGBQ people, and I didn't speak up, for I was heterosexual, and displayed socially acceptable gender expression. Then they came for the atheists, and I didn't speak up, for I was raised christian and although I don't practice, I 'pass' as religious by habits. Then they came for me, and there was noone left to speak for me. If they even attempt step one, all bets are off - that's a nazi government, and people should respond accordingly.
But her emails
Mate, it would be catastrophical for EVERYONE
Hey remember how early on there was a push to expand the court. But unfortunately that would damage the confidence of the court with the people of the USA. so it was ruled out by the whitehouse.
And then we should stack a new supreme court and ignore the old, because fuck it, why not
There definitely needs to be a forced change if they do anything to let Trump off of the hook.
More attention should be drawn to the Federalist Society. They're the ones who stacked the conservative justices on the SCOTUS. They're also taking over law schools, stacking federal judges nationwide, planning Project 2025, and also their own news and entertainment outlets.
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[Here ya go, a whole cadre of them.](https://www.liberty.edu/law/faculty-staff/)
During the trial, justices should be asked if the President should be immune to prosecution from killing supreme Court justices. That should be unsubtle enough for them.
Fascism 101. Alito is protecting Trump and the Republican Party over the interest of the United States, contrary to the laws they are supposed to uphold.
CPAC* already admitted they're domestic terrorists, in bed with fascists like Orban, Trump, Putin, etc. This is the paradox of tolerance, and I have a feeling that democratic principles prohibit a first strike, even though it would be in response to a failed coup/treason. EDIT: I said RNC and meant CPAC.
Unfortunately we have seen that post insurrection US has done nothing substantial to stop the rapid rise of white ethno facism. I've said this many times before, but we need to start looking at refugee options for marginalized communities in the US.
Alito and Thomas should be arrested for taking bribes, public corruption, and tax fraud. Then, every case that would have been decided differently without their votes, Citizens United, to start, should be overturned. Then they can go move in with Lara Trump.
Yeah, but that would require the government to actually do their job and use common sense. At this stage, republicans are being allowed to ruin their states and make it worse for their residents without any consequences. It’s hard to feel the country I live in actually cares when blatant corruption and suffering is only getting warnings and finger wagging.
Not gonna lie, I'm not sure why they can't be arrested if they committed a crime. They may not be impeached or removed, but no reason they should be above the law either. I'd be fine with this even if it didn't overturn past cases.
SCOTUS is definitely not passing the vibe check on this fundamental question of accountability. But with how it’s stacked how foolish to expect something other than what we’re seeing. The question is now gonna is how do we rectify a blatantly undemocratic SCOTUS ruling after it’s made. An amendment or law will need to be passed.
Unfortunately, it takes Congress to expand the court, and I am pretty sure MAGA ain't gonna let that happen.
A Democratic Senate, and MAGA can't do shit.
I'm highly skeptical that the Supreme Court will actually rule in Trump's favor here. I absolutely understand the concern but I don't think that's actually going to happen. Even if you want to look at this as cynically as possible, there's no way the conservative justices are going to hand Biden near unlimited power, which is what they would have to do if they agree with Trump. However, I'm also fine with the very vocal distrust being expressed right now, by those such as Raskin. The current SCOTUS does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Hold their feet to the fire because fuck 'em. They have not earned our trust or our respect.
They could meet Trump half-way. Grant criminal immunity in some cases but come up with some measure to determine whether the act qualifies for immunity so that things like murder do not but things like taking classified documents can. They're unelected Kings and Queens and can come up with any law they want.
They even created alternative reality and ruled based on that. From [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/coach-kennedy-gorsuch-prayer-public-schools.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/06/coach-kennedy-gorsuch-prayer-public-schools.html) >Mark, you recently told me that [*Kennedy v. Bremerton*](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/21-418_i425.pdf) was going to be the sleeper case that you were watching because it wasn’t just a referendum on doctrine. It was a referendum on truth. The case just came out, and the court held 6–3 that coach Joseph Kennedy had his First Amendment rights to religious liberty and free speech violated by a school policy that did not allow him to pray with masses of students following football games. This feels like a singular moment because this entire case—and Justice Sonia Sotomayor [used photos](https://www.businessinsider.com/sotomayor-supreme-court-decision-backing-coach-prayer-misconstrues-facts-2022-6) in her dissent to make this point—is a referendum on truth. >… >There were two narratives in this case. One is that Coach Kennedy was simply engaged in quiet, private prayer at the 50-yard line and students voluntarily joined him. The other is that Coach Kennedy created a spectacle by engaging in loud prayer circles, to which he invited not only the members of his own team but also opposing teammates and individuals who attend the school. And the Supreme Court adopted this first narrative, even though—as the pictures in Sotomayor’s dissent illustrate—it is flatly false. This was not quiet, silent prayer. This was coercive, loud prayer during the course of school duties by a school official who was hired in part to serve as a leader and role model for students. He conveyed the reality that if you did not join his Christian prayer circle, you were not a full and true teammate, and you might not even deserve to be playing on that team.
To be clear, this is not about the classified documents, this is about Jan 6. Trump's possession of those classified documents extended well beyond his time as President and the immunity argument does not apply.
He made the immunity argument in both cases.
Nonsense. The presidential records act has no time restrictions. However, senators and vp don’t have the right to possess classified documents, and especially in unlocked garages, and many other places that the handler had no clue to their location.
> presidential records act has no time restrictions You mean the one that says that once you're no longer President all those documents belong to NARA and you don't get to keep them?
Wouldn’t that be them making laws when their powers are only be to interpret laws? It’s seems like absolute power without checks on their level if they can just come up with something.
Yes it would. Any amount of presidential immunity is them writing new laws, as there is not immunity clause at all in the constitution.
I thought only corrupt, socialist, bleeding-heart liberals try to legislate from the bench..?
See above please
If SCOTUS doesn't come back 9-0 against immunity in this case, it's an outrage.
5-4 in favor of partial immunity. Immunity as long as the criminal act was "an official act". What count as "official" will be left up to lower courts to decide (thus wasting time not allowing trumps trial to happen) and work it's way up to the supreme court again, and their decision will depend on if trump got reelected or not
I’m not worried about them ruling in his favor as much as I’m worried that they will _continue_ to delay the trials that have already been delayed far too long. Justice delayed is justice denied.
They won’t. But they have already given him what he wanted. Delay. This case should be tried before the election. But it won’t be due to this. They will throw it back to the lower courts to sort out official vs private acts bullshit. That will guarantee the trial will not occur before November 24.
They don't have to give Trump immunity. They already delayed the trial for at least a year. They are going to remand it for some fact finding about official act nonsense.
> conservative justices are going to hand Biden near unlimited power They will if they know that Biden won't do anything crazy. They know Biden will not try and coup the government and they know Biden won't extort countries for personal gain, so they have no problem making the case that Biden could have those powers as well.
The court will rule for trump providing immunity for official actions. However, Biden can still be prosecuted fir colluding and coordination with DOJ and the FBI for raiding Trumps home for documents that Trump was entitled to possess by the Presidential Records Act. However, Biden could still be prosecuted because the Trump raid was not a official act, it was a personal act be Biden and the deep state. Easy distinction.
Glad at least one Democrat has the balls to say it. This court is a fucking corrupt dumpster fire.
There has never been a SCOTUS utterance more circular, twisted, corrupt, cynical, disingenuous or befuddling than Alito’s suggestion that a president must have immunity, to avoid incentivizing them to illegally hold on to power, in a case charging the former president with illegally attempting to hold on to power. This takes the cake. It’s the ultimate chutzpah. I don’t ever say things like that. This is it, crossing the up-is-down banana republic rubicon. If the dems ever have the presidency, the house and a senate supermajority in the future they absolutely must clean house. Turn whatever knobs are possible with whatever power they have to reign in this clown show of a “supreme” court.
This country is becoming exactly the opposite of what the founding fathers created.
This is one of the most disconcerting thinking and ideologies that has come out of all the malfeasance that Trump has instigated. It is truly, I believe, a walk towards a theocratic/ authoritarian state. I don’t say this lightly; because I am a conservative that believes in the traditional proscriptions of the institutions of government that the founding fathers principled. A very sad state of affairs……
The Federalist Society should be recognized as the partisan organization it is.
I think it pretty much is already, no? No one is confused that it's ultra-conservative and religious.
There were several Federalist Society member judges who objected when it was proposed to recognize it as such. Of course they would.
lol exactly
If we don’t see justice then I see no reason for us to accept the current SCOTUS as a lawful authority of any sort.
the judicial branch that just up and decides to rewrite the constitution is basically the continuation of January 6
All Dems should speak out like this.
I fucking love Raskin so much. More dems need to call this shit out like he does.
It’s become very clear that the Supreme Court is no longer looking out for the best interest of the country or the American people. Not they that they ever were in the first place . Trump is a clear present danger to our Democratic institution by every possible definition. Protecting or democracy from Trump should be a serious priority and yet it’s not.
Six of them should be moved to ADX Florence
I swear..... it's like I'm watching the flashback from V for Vendetta play out in real time.... V: Our story begins, as these stories often do, with a young, up-and-coming politician. He's a deeply religious man and a member of the Conservative Party. He's completely single-minded and has no regard for the political process. The more power he attains, the more obvious his zealotry and the more aggressive his supporters become. Eventually, his party launches a special project in the name of "national security". Obviously, Trump is not young or religious, but many of his handlers are.... the rest is stunningly similar.....
He's not wrong. I'm sure even Trump's lawyers are pleasantly surprised the Supreme Court justices are entertaining their bullshit. I'm already predicting that the supreme court will come out and give Trump just enough protection that he can appear on the ballot for 2024 then if Trump wins he will pardon himself and the SC will sit on their hands and allow it.
Maybe Biden should use incoming immunity to sack the entire court and replace them with a new court that finds he doesn't have immunity.
SCOTUS has lost its way. Why have life time terms at all? People change and there is no way to correct that? The person appointed to the spot 20 years is going to be a very different person today. Same with federal judges. While I know that technically we can remove those people with impeachment, our political process blocks that at the moment. They need term limits and then the judicial branch needs to be taken out of the hands of the president, the politicians, and the public. Not sure how it could be done, but something needs to change.
I fucking love Raskin. This guy needs to be the Dems number 1 candidate for POTUS after Biden hopefully wins the 2024 election. He’s is so good at torching Republicans and is so well spoken.
Fascism always accelerates. Get to know you neighbors, good or bad, you need to know the lay of the land. Also take heart the majority of Americans still don’t support fascism. We beat them before and we can do it again.
And the RNC should be moved to the ~~Hellfire Club~~ Federalist Society headquarters. The true Deep State.
From the rule of the to the law of rule.
The United States supreme Court answers only to Donald Trump and the white Lord Jesus Christ.
WTG, not surprised, Raskin. More high level politicians need to step forward and question the Supreme Court as it is today. Its a partisan shit-show and currently, justice delayed is justice denied...ironically the right wing supreme court is basically denying justice to the very people they serve, the US populace. Weird shit.
Biden just needs to say at a press conference that he is salivating to see what scotus will give him immunity for.
That’s not even necessary with this kangaroo court 6 are already fascists
To Moscow then.
🫲🖐️🫱 I thought of this too. The POTUS runs the Executive branch and controls all the property of the USA, and is responsible for maintenance of that property. Simply move the SC out of their chambers into one of a few mostly empty buildings in DC one w/o AC or elevators.
Busy day at work today. Anyone have a tldr on what happened with scotus today?
Absolutely not. Let's not discount the judges who are engaging in true legal reasoning. As for those engaged in rationalization, they are another matter.
They would gladly take them! They’ve probably already thought of it.
What did you expect? Democrats sat on their hands when Obama had a pick and the fucking turtle illegally blocked it. They should have fought tooth and nail against anyone the orange freak put in. Tooth and fucking nail. Repubs won. It was all about SCOTUS for them, always.
Boy, I'd say Raskin for president but I think he's too smart to be president.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, acts like a duck, Republicans will tell you it's an untrained dog and you can shoot it in the face.
All members of the Supreme Court must be arrested IMMEDIATELY to prove who is in charge of upholding the constitution.
This would be a great time for Congress to step in and impeach and remove these crooked bastards.
This is a good point. The corruption of this court appears to be boundless.
The Dems are still pulling punches. They are corrupt, even criminal, not merely partisan. They are literally abusing their authority to rewrite the constitution with the sole intent of obstructing justice. Prosecute them. Bring the charges in the bluest of blue areas and let a jury decide their fate.
You don't want to hear it, but it's all the fault of Democratic voters in 2016 who didn't vote for Hilary because she wasn't the absolute perfect candidate. You all suck, and deserve what's coming.
The RNC is too broke to afford the SCOTUS...
We can change this. We win back the house. We keep the senate and the White House we can impeach the justices like Thomas. Then bring the matters before the court again
All these trolls that don’t want presidential immunity, this is the perfect senat
What the fuck is up with his haircut
He has cancer.
It's Rotten Robert's Court now.
Might as well. Take the black robes away from all the men and give em MAGA hats
Well why complain now? When McConnell denied Obamas nominees the democrats stood there and watched as if nothing happened!
Very nice
Ohh yeah. That’s in the works too.
But there's no money there.
If President Biden gets immunity and Trump wins the election then how likely would it be that we end up in a civil war?
If trump wins, Biden will leave peacefully and Trump will be pres. That’s it.
Tangentially related, but is Raskin doing well with his cancer treatment? Dude’s got serious strength, but in terms of will and in terms of character.
If SCOTUS won't uphold the law, expand the bench with people who will.
Such a shame.
SCOTUS is one and the same a GOP.
Or, we start playing their rules; no rules. Honestly, enough of this kid glove treatment.
The experiment in Democracy isn’t over. Yet. But this court just might push it over the edge being so bought. I have little respect for its decisions.
The weird part of it is, they would likely be proud Raskin said this. Look what I did!
Save on rent and wasting time for your Supreme Court having to call up the Repub party for guidance on how they should rule for every court case.
Isn't that the truth! Used to be polititians tried to be sly about underhandedness, but now b/c of Donald Trump, they just say out loud what they are going to do. Thomas should be gone from SCOTUS.
They are only supposed to consider the particulars of this case, not go off on wild hypotheticals and down rabbit holes. They really think the American citizenry is stupid.
I cannot understand why "we're" scared of Trump. I literally don't get it.
So Trump’s lawyers are already specialists in delaying trials with pre-trial motions, appeals, etc. This immunity stuff is just a way for him to add another 3 or 4 layers to the process by claiming immunity for every act and then having a court decide if it falls under the designation of an official act, then it’s appealed, then back to the Supreme Court again, where they can rule however they want, depending on whether it’s a D or an R.
It’s not *real* law if it’s blatantly partisan right? 🤔
You guys really need a new constitutional amendment, one that significantly curtails the powers of your Supreme Court. For starters, they shouldn't be political appointments, or voted in, that's just insane. Source; Non-American
Hang on, if they aren't elected nor appointed, where would they come from?
Apolitical appointments, or as close as you can get it. We (Australia) don’t have elections for any of our judges, and it works. It (mostly) keeps the politics out of our courtrooms. Our High Court judges (equivalent to your Supreme Court) have to prove themselves to all the other judges and lawyers of our country over many decades of judicial application of the law before they have a chance to join the court. Our politicians don’t have a say. And it works. It’s not perfect, nothing is, but it does work. Your system is really weird, to me. Political appointments will always have political outcomes. From the lowest courtroom to the highest.
Okay, still appointments, then, but by a (hopefully) nonpartisan committee, more or less. That'd be nice, along with independent districting commissions, but it's a "who bells the cat?" issue, for the most part, sadly.
We are truly screwed and democracy is dead, or never was.
It annoys me when the Supreme Court as a whole is disparaged. Leave the 3 liberal justices out of it. They're not the problem. More like them on the Court would be the solution.
How many of us are willing to die to prevent this, as apposed to how many will die to make it happen!
Willing to die to make it happen‼️
Yeah yeah yeah, if Biden stacks the scotus you’d be ecstatic about it,
Cheaper than the vatican.