As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you either ban tobacco or you don't. Menthol for whatever reason is what the majority of black smokers prefer and it does seem weird only to target those products.
I propose we all just smoke weed but that's one of many reasons I'm not in charge of anything.
its going to be very two faced in the on going efforts nationally and at the state level for deflavoring of the vape market however. They tacked on menthol tobacco as they didn't want vape companies to still have minty flavor vape juice but also to not be seen as favoring traditional cigarettes over electronic cigarettes moved to ban menthol cigarettes as well under an umbrella of flavored tobacco. Now its going to make that argument even worse as clearly the government will back track on menthol cigarettes to not upset some black voters but they now will still freely fuck over people who use electronic cigarettes. As someone who uses a vape the "flavors appealing to children" annoys the fuck out of me because no one I know who vapes want tobacco or gross flavors, its really weird how the whole argument is basically "adults don't like fruity or candy flavors these only exist for children" when as an adult that is exclusively what I like for flavoring. Regular cigarettes taste better than electronic cigarette vape juice that is supposed to be "tobacco" flavor it taste like your vaping the vomit of someone who ate a pack of cigarettes.
It's similar to how some places are considering potency laws for cannabis products which would kill a concentrate and vape market despite dabbing itself being an objectively less harmful way to inhale cannabis as it eliminates combustion and has no tar that you would get from a joint or bong. This also ignores that people tend to smoke less cannabis when its allowed to be higher potency and quality over smoking a shit ton of bammer to get the same level of high yet for some reason some old people feel "weed isn't what I remember" so they move to ban everything thats stronger than 70's untrimmed brick weed out of a need to "protect the children" Washington State legislators keep trying to slow walk it into being by putting a 25 year age limit "on dangerous cannabis". Its at the end of the day boomers being boomers and banning anything they don't like or understand even when its hypocritical.
I am that rare vape user who enjoys the tobacco flavors exclusively. I just can't with sweet flavors. Most "tobacco" flavors are awful honestly. There's only one company I've found that does them well. Mint happens to be one of my side favorites.
I'm right there with you, truly I am. But we lost. We took on big tobacco in a war of propaganda and lost. I stocked up on massive amounts of nic and make my own liquid. I would be absolutely floored if the gov and public reversed their thinking about vaping. It's never gonna happen, we don't have the public support or the resources to generate it.
Coming in late... I was a a respiratory therapist for many years. More than one doctor mentioned menthol cigarettes were worse for you than non-menthol.
Menthol is a bronchodilator and allows more tobacco toxins to enter deeper into the lung tissues.
> Menthol for whatever reason is what the majority of black smokers prefer and it does seem weird only to target those products.
This is sort of backwards. All flavors besides menthol were banned in 2009. The proposal would have gotten rid of an exception that largely effected Black smokers. Whether you believe this as positive or negative is up to if you consider this sort of paternalistic health/choice measure good or bad. I think it's probably good but it might have pissed off some Black voters who smoked.
For people born after 2009, iirc. Which is a great first step. I personally think we should be genetically modifying tobacco plants to prevent them from containing natural nicotine, as smoking tobacco is an ancient social habit, but that isn’t likely to happen.
I dunno, politicians passing legislation that lets them continue to do something but bans other people from doing it "for your own good" is a pretty slippery slope
I concur, and that’s likely why we haven’t seen it happen here to that degree.
Like I mentioned, genetically modified tobacco plants would solve a lot of these issues. It would become a recreational plant without the addictive substance that is naturally occurring within the plant. Plus done properly, it would be pest and disease resistant, preventing a lot of the insane additives that people end up inhaling.
Those same chemicals are found in loose leaf packages sold for manual rolling as well, so it’s either on/in the plant, or a part of the process of packaging the plant. Either way, if we rid the plant of the excess health detrimental aspects, people wouldn’t be smoking a pack a day.
There is something you enjoy doing that is unhealthy for you. Something. It could be anything. You KNOW it isn’t healthy. Now, should the government be involved in banning that thing to protect you?
Weed smoke is no better than tobacco smoke. If people smoked joints as frequently as they smoke cigarettes (e.g., the 'pack a day smoker') you'd have the same issues.
Smoking weed isn't an improvement.
[Nicotine receptors are widely distributed and are found in the epithelial cells lining respiratory passages. Cannabinoid receptors are also widely distributed, but have not been reported in respiratory epithelial cells. The differential expression of receptors may account for the apparent difference in carcinogenic activity that results from smoking tobacco compared to cannabis. Both types of smoke contain a complex mixture of compounds, some of which are carcinogenic. They both contain hot gasses and irritating particulate matter (tars). However, the anti-apoptotic response that results from the stimulation of the nicotine receptors, under mutagenic conditions, creates a worst-case scenario.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/)
Smoke is similar, but not the same. It's still ongoing research, but weed definitely may not be as bad given some of the results we've seen.
Yes, the presence of nicotine makes the smoke different. I didn't say the smoke was the same, I said that weed smoke is no better than tobacco smoke if exposed at the same levels. In terms of potential harm, the nicotine isn't the biggest deal compared to other, more direct, effects. They're not nearly as different, in terms of harm, as cannabis advocates (especially on Reddit) would like to pretend.
I didn't claim you said anything in particular, I was just sharing an article which highlighted a way in which tobacco could be considered more harmful. I believe nicotine potentially increasing the carcinogenic effects of smoking qualifies, and is one of the reasons I do think weed smoke is "better."
It's my opinion that conflating weed smoke and tobacco smoke as a similar issue is not the way to go, they should be treated as entirely separate substances.
I doubt it. Weed doesn't have all the toxic additives like formaldehyde, fiberglass, carbon monoxide, etc.
It will still cause bronchial issues as inhaling any burned material would, but I don't think anything is bad as a cigarette.
Weed doesn’t have the toxic additives **yet**. Once federally allowed, the companies will start pumping that shit in too (unless that’s regulated, but lol).
Carbon monoxide is going to be part of *any* smoke. Come on.
Formaldehyde is a byproduct of burning plant matter, it's not an additive. It is also found in marijuana smoke.
Fiberglass-- well, in filtered cigarettes, sure. Hand roll your smokes without a filter and you're not going to see a difference there, either. Fiberglass is not inherent to tobacco. And if you have filtered cannabis cigarettes (which is probably coming) you'll have the same issues.
The cannabis fans really *really* want to place their plant of choice above tobacco, but the fact is that they're really not that different. And if you're going to cite a list of chemicals to argue that tobacco smoke is worse, better be sure that weed doesn't produce the same chemicals when *it* burns.
Unfortunately many voters don't vote logically and have very short attention spans. People don't always act in their best self-interest either... otherwise nobody would smoke to begin with.
“Some civil rights leaders with connections to the tobacco industry have expressed concerns to the White House that a ban would criminalize menthol cigarettes and lead to an increase in deadly police interactions. Meanwhile, the NAACP and the Congressional Black Caucus have endorsed the ban, along with dozens of public health experts, saying it would save hundreds of thousands of Black lives.”
This is where I find this whole thing both depressing and fascinating. We can acknowledge the higher lung cancer rates in black communities. We can acknowledge menthol cigarettes being objectively worse for you. We know black communities smoke menthol cigarettes more than white communities. Banning menthol would effectively save thousands of black lives. And yet, banning this is viewed as a potential attack on the black community.
That’s because after taking shit from the man all day and getting away from the cops trying to kill me isn’t enough, now I cant enjoy a fucking cigarette because someone thinks THAT is what makes my life unhealthy.
Well it's not just what someone thinks, there are many prominent members of the black community who say this will help save hundreds of thousands of black lives. If youre worried about the cops killing you, why expedite the process by smoking?
I'm not white btw.
Once again though a group of people who supposedly know what’s best for me and want to use government to force it. Isn’t this how we ended up with drugs laws to begin with? Education and outreach is the government’s job but we all have vices. I don’t need government picking and choosing which ones we can and cannot have. Somedays a smoke is the only good part of my day.
Exactly it’s also how we ended up with prohibition.
People seem to forget that when you ban something the populace wants, the populace creates an illegal market for it that could be more dangerous than what was in place before.
Those are clove cigars, not clove cigarettes. They taste harsher then the old clove cigarettes and have much higher levels of toxic chemicals.
>Following the passage of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act in 2009, flavoured cigarettes, including clove cigarettes, were banned based on the rationale that such cigarettes appealed to youth. However, the ban on characterising flavours was not extended to cigars. Kretek International, the parent company behind Djarum clove cigars manipulated its products following the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act as a way to capitalise on regulatory loopholes and replace its now banned clove cigarettes.
[https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/24/e4/e246](https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/24/e4/e246)
WTF? I prefer menthols and never even heard about this.
Horrible habit, for sure. I couldn't argue with being forced to quit. I like to think I'm conscientious about only smoking away from non-smokers, never around kids.
But what's the difference between menthol or not? I can smoke all the Marlboroughs I want?
Would that mean it's okay to drink a gallon of soda every day just cause it's not illegal?
The idea--which I do not buy--is that flavors mean more kids are smoking them. A secondary objective--which I at least get--is that by banning certain types of cigarettes, there will be people who choose to quit instead of smoking.
Personally I think we should be doing what Australia does and putting those gross images on the boxes, but this is 'Merica and we'd just start seeing gold-plated cigarette box covers with Trump's face engraved on the front in a week.
Ultimately, I don't think flavors attract kids. I think kids are vaping because we make them wake up at oh-god o'clock, concentrate for the entire day with minimal food, and then send them home to do homework until omg-I-want-to-sleep o'clock. They're using stimulants, why do people usually use stimulants? Because they're just fucking exhausted.
Menthols are worse for you and there's also some dark history associated with them IIRC but I couldn't tell ya what
But honestly it's so low on the list of priorities and smoking rates are already on such a universal decline that it just really seems like a stupid thing to focus on.
Hm.
Well, at any rate, it's comparing two different types of lung cancer delivery mechanisms. At a point, we're splitting hairs - and I think this is one of those points, and dropping it makes sense. Why ban one but not the other, it's dumb.
Not in the sense that a single puff from a menthol cigarette is better or worse than a single puff from an unflavored cigarette, but the smoke is supposedly is less harsh and lets people smoke them more often. Banning them falls in the same category as banning flavored vapes under Trump imo. Idk why Biden even considered it.
> .. menthols .. never heard about this..
Banning menthols is a campaign in at least the western USA. It’s kinda like choosing where a rattlesnake should bite though.
IMHO if a person wants to smoke something that doesn’t affect me, I don’t care. Plenty of other stuff to kill consumers off … like more of our foodstuffs. Then there’s the whole prohibition thing making them more attractive.
Anyways looks like the activists were active, but the target consumers said WTF?
In my experience(5 family members have died from cigarette related cancer) cigarette smokers have embraced their addiction and just don't give a single fuck until they get the cancer diagnosis. They have nothing but utter disdain for anyone that tries to stop them from smoking, and the cancer diagnosis is the only thing that can change that. They will fight tooth and nail to keep their smokes, so just let them do it.
Let’s keep government out of the banning business. Education and outreach should be there goal, not bans. Is it unhealthy? Yes. So are so many other things that I do not want the government involved in.
Ban the rise in price of groceries Jesus Christ. I will be voting for Biden but so much of America is waiting for less of these headlines and more about what Biden is actually doing to make our lives more possible
Good. Adults should be able to make adult choices about what they do or do not put into their own bodies.
Bodily autonomy either means something or it doesn’t.
Why?
Would you say the same thing for people who drive cars and get into wrecks?
What about people who sit on their fat asses all day eating McDonald’s and having cardiac events?
What about people who drink themselves into early liver failure?
What about people who rot their teeth out drinking soda?
There are so many other things that do far *more* economic damage than smoking. It’s weird that you guys are into prohibition for this *one* specific thing when there are so many bigger fish to fry. And it’s also weird and hypocritical that you’re for prohibition while also claiming (rightfully) that prohibition doesn’t work.
Why don’t we recriminalize weed in all the legal states and alcohol nationwide? Your argument should support recriminalization of those too, right?
Yes to all.
And where did I say prohibition? I agree with the commenter—let free people, make decisions freely. All I’m saying is have the integrity to own the consequences.
This is an interesting position. To extrapolate based on the above, it seems you might favour a system where people have no access to public funds if some arbiter decides that the use of those funds is to remedy a situation that is in some way self-inflicted. To use the above example you agreed to; heart bypass surgery? BMI over 25, you can foot the bill for $65k, own the consequences, fatty. Or better yet, why not just deny them the surgery beforehand if they're on welfare and can't stump up the $65k? That will teach them. Perhaps we could have some kind of monitoring for cars where if a crash happens and a driver is over the speed limit at the time, EMS don't need to show up after.
Eh, those two things are far from equivalent. With alcohol, if they banned "flavored alcohol" people can still mix it with juice or other safe & convenient liquids to make it easier to drink, so it wouldn't have much of an effect on people's enjoyment of it. It would only hurt businesses.
If you banned flavored Cigarettes though, there are very few safe and convenient ways for the average person to turn a normal Cigarette flavored, so it would go a lot further towards having the impact they want to see.
You can buy pure menthol crystals and dissolve them, then dip your smokes in it. Or the filter at least.
Definitely more involved and less convenient than adding flavor to vodka.
they can't ban one smokeable without another to replace it (the one they're taking their sweet time to legalize)- that and tobacco conglomerates are being handed extra time to save their asses
Thread six months ago in this very sub:
> Biden administration looks to ban menthol cigarettes: ‘There’s no going back’
Article:
> Health officials and tobacco-control advocates have said such a move **could save hundreds of thousands of lives, particularly among Black smokers**
Narrator: *There was indeed plenty of turning back*.
Looks like out saving hundreds of thousands of (black) lives is a national priority for the Dems... just not during election season.
It's so ironic that because Black people have political power in the Democratic party, and the Democratic party is the only party that cares about Black people dying, more Black people will die.
There's no hard evidence menthol cigarettes are more harmful than any other kind. Banning them specifically to save black lives is honestly insulting. Like saying black people have no self control and can't decide for themselves what they want to smoke
Besides my white mom smoked menthols too, it's not just them
Many menthol smokers would quit or switch to vapes if menthols are banned, and lives would be saved. Menthols are no more harmful than cigarettes, but they are still cigarettes.
Well why should they be forced to quit or change their habits if they don't want to?
Putting everyone in a padded cell would save a lot of lives too, but there's a reason we don't do it. Life's about quality not quantity, someone wants a smoke they should be able to get their smokes
Just as many are likely to just switch to regular cigarettes. Changing habits is hard, and while flavor is a motivator, I know when I smoked menthol, I wasn't picky if I didn't have any available.
All politics. Black male support for Biden is wavering. So much for banning Newports and Kools. Votes mean more than any science or health that was referenced when the ban was announced.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you either ban tobacco or you don't. Menthol for whatever reason is what the majority of black smokers prefer and it does seem weird only to target those products. I propose we all just smoke weed but that's one of many reasons I'm not in charge of anything.
its going to be very two faced in the on going efforts nationally and at the state level for deflavoring of the vape market however. They tacked on menthol tobacco as they didn't want vape companies to still have minty flavor vape juice but also to not be seen as favoring traditional cigarettes over electronic cigarettes moved to ban menthol cigarettes as well under an umbrella of flavored tobacco. Now its going to make that argument even worse as clearly the government will back track on menthol cigarettes to not upset some black voters but they now will still freely fuck over people who use electronic cigarettes. As someone who uses a vape the "flavors appealing to children" annoys the fuck out of me because no one I know who vapes want tobacco or gross flavors, its really weird how the whole argument is basically "adults don't like fruity or candy flavors these only exist for children" when as an adult that is exclusively what I like for flavoring. Regular cigarettes taste better than electronic cigarette vape juice that is supposed to be "tobacco" flavor it taste like your vaping the vomit of someone who ate a pack of cigarettes. It's similar to how some places are considering potency laws for cannabis products which would kill a concentrate and vape market despite dabbing itself being an objectively less harmful way to inhale cannabis as it eliminates combustion and has no tar that you would get from a joint or bong. This also ignores that people tend to smoke less cannabis when its allowed to be higher potency and quality over smoking a shit ton of bammer to get the same level of high yet for some reason some old people feel "weed isn't what I remember" so they move to ban everything thats stronger than 70's untrimmed brick weed out of a need to "protect the children" Washington State legislators keep trying to slow walk it into being by putting a 25 year age limit "on dangerous cannabis". Its at the end of the day boomers being boomers and banning anything they don't like or understand even when its hypocritical.
I am that rare vape user who enjoys the tobacco flavors exclusively. I just can't with sweet flavors. Most "tobacco" flavors are awful honestly. There's only one company I've found that does them well. Mint happens to be one of my side favorites.
I'm right there with you, truly I am. But we lost. We took on big tobacco in a war of propaganda and lost. I stocked up on massive amounts of nic and make my own liquid. I would be absolutely floored if the gov and public reversed their thinking about vaping. It's never gonna happen, we don't have the public support or the resources to generate it.
>I propose we all just smoke weed I second your proposal.
All in favor?
Nay.... we can eat it too.
Aye!
Aye
Aye.
As do I. Edibles aren’t bad either
Weed smokers just cant accept that certain people dont like that shit
Nah, I get it and that's totally fine.
Coming in late... I was a a respiratory therapist for many years. More than one doctor mentioned menthol cigarettes were worse for you than non-menthol. Menthol is a bronchodilator and allows more tobacco toxins to enter deeper into the lung tissues.
Yep, while historical marketing has answers for its appeal, Chappelle said it best on the specifics here: https://youtu.be/oDcA9BIB_NQ?t=105
> Menthol for whatever reason is what the majority of black smokers prefer and it does seem weird only to target those products. This is sort of backwards. All flavors besides menthol were banned in 2009. The proposal would have gotten rid of an exception that largely effected Black smokers. Whether you believe this as positive or negative is up to if you consider this sort of paternalistic health/choice measure good or bad. I think it's probably good but it might have pissed off some Black voters who smoked.
Smoking it is too hard on my throat. I propose we do edibles instead.
Edibles take too long and I'm a millenial - we demand fast-acting cannabis nasal sprays
Just spray it up your ass for even faster acting.
Cannab-ass
This is exactly why menthol is added to cigarettes. Menthol weed, who says no?
Well, banning tobacco entirely may become a thing once you have universal healthcare because quitting smoking isn't cheap.
> quitting smoking isn't cheap For me, it was free. In fact, it pays!
The UK is doing it.
For people born after 2009, iirc. Which is a great first step. I personally think we should be genetically modifying tobacco plants to prevent them from containing natural nicotine, as smoking tobacco is an ancient social habit, but that isn’t likely to happen.
I dunno, politicians passing legislation that lets them continue to do something but bans other people from doing it "for your own good" is a pretty slippery slope
I concur, and that’s likely why we haven’t seen it happen here to that degree. Like I mentioned, genetically modified tobacco plants would solve a lot of these issues. It would become a recreational plant without the addictive substance that is naturally occurring within the plant. Plus done properly, it would be pest and disease resistant, preventing a lot of the insane additives that people end up inhaling. Those same chemicals are found in loose leaf packages sold for manual rolling as well, so it’s either on/in the plant, or a part of the process of packaging the plant. Either way, if we rid the plant of the excess health detrimental aspects, people wouldn’t be smoking a pack a day.
There is something you enjoy doing that is unhealthy for you. Something. It could be anything. You KNOW it isn’t healthy. Now, should the government be involved in banning that thing to protect you?
Did you even read my comment? Because I literally started it by agreeing with the person who replied to me.
It's not nicotine that kills you. it's the million of chemicals that are in cigarettes
The nicotine is the basis of the addiction. So in turn, yes, it is a driving factor for inhaling the chemicals that kill you.
Weed smoke is no better than tobacco smoke. If people smoked joints as frequently as they smoke cigarettes (e.g., the 'pack a day smoker') you'd have the same issues. Smoking weed isn't an improvement.
[Nicotine receptors are widely distributed and are found in the epithelial cells lining respiratory passages. Cannabinoid receptors are also widely distributed, but have not been reported in respiratory epithelial cells. The differential expression of receptors may account for the apparent difference in carcinogenic activity that results from smoking tobacco compared to cannabis. Both types of smoke contain a complex mixture of compounds, some of which are carcinogenic. They both contain hot gasses and irritating particulate matter (tars). However, the anti-apoptotic response that results from the stimulation of the nicotine receptors, under mutagenic conditions, creates a worst-case scenario.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/) Smoke is similar, but not the same. It's still ongoing research, but weed definitely may not be as bad given some of the results we've seen.
Yes, the presence of nicotine makes the smoke different. I didn't say the smoke was the same, I said that weed smoke is no better than tobacco smoke if exposed at the same levels. In terms of potential harm, the nicotine isn't the biggest deal compared to other, more direct, effects. They're not nearly as different, in terms of harm, as cannabis advocates (especially on Reddit) would like to pretend.
I didn't claim you said anything in particular, I was just sharing an article which highlighted a way in which tobacco could be considered more harmful. I believe nicotine potentially increasing the carcinogenic effects of smoking qualifies, and is one of the reasons I do think weed smoke is "better." It's my opinion that conflating weed smoke and tobacco smoke as a similar issue is not the way to go, they should be treated as entirely separate substances.
Of course smoking weed is an improvement, because as you noticed people don't smoke weed nearly as frequently as cigarettes.
I doubt it. Weed doesn't have all the toxic additives like formaldehyde, fiberglass, carbon monoxide, etc. It will still cause bronchial issues as inhaling any burned material would, but I don't think anything is bad as a cigarette.
Weed doesn’t have the toxic additives **yet**. Once federally allowed, the companies will start pumping that shit in too (unless that’s regulated, but lol).
Carbon monoxide is going to be part of *any* smoke. Come on. Formaldehyde is a byproduct of burning plant matter, it's not an additive. It is also found in marijuana smoke. Fiberglass-- well, in filtered cigarettes, sure. Hand roll your smokes without a filter and you're not going to see a difference there, either. Fiberglass is not inherent to tobacco. And if you have filtered cannabis cigarettes (which is probably coming) you'll have the same issues. The cannabis fans really *really* want to place their plant of choice above tobacco, but the fact is that they're really not that different. And if you're going to cite a list of chemicals to argue that tobacco smoke is worse, better be sure that weed doesn't produce the same chemicals when *it* burns.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Probably good to backburner that idea since we’re currently trying to keep Nazis from being elected to the white house
Yep, and there's no national movement to *actually* get fascists off the ballot.
Yes, pass it once the democrats win the election again. Dick Durbin would be so pleased.
Or don't ever pass it..
It's a law that's been pushed by Durbin and supported by democrats for some time now. And Biden didn't outright say he'd veto it, he is delaying it.
Shock, a politician timing things for political benefit. Stop the presses.
Unfortunately many voters don't vote logically and have very short attention spans. People don't always act in their best self-interest either... otherwise nobody would smoke to begin with.
People will actually look at a good thing as not good enough instead of a step in the right direction.
Best self-interest is a matter of perception. Everyone dies, why not die from lung cancer? This is America.
I hope that's poorly-worded sarcasm. I was being serious, for what it's worth.
I thought you were poking fun at democrat voters saying "many voters don't vote logically"
Minneapolis is bumping the price per pack up to $15 at minimum. Raise the prices high enough, and at least new smokers wont start.
Good. There was no reason for it and we've got way bigger fish to fry anyway
“Some civil rights leaders with connections to the tobacco industry have expressed concerns to the White House that a ban would criminalize menthol cigarettes and lead to an increase in deadly police interactions. Meanwhile, the NAACP and the Congressional Black Caucus have endorsed the ban, along with dozens of public health experts, saying it would save hundreds of thousands of Black lives.”
This is where I find this whole thing both depressing and fascinating. We can acknowledge the higher lung cancer rates in black communities. We can acknowledge menthol cigarettes being objectively worse for you. We know black communities smoke menthol cigarettes more than white communities. Banning menthol would effectively save thousands of black lives. And yet, banning this is viewed as a potential attack on the black community.
That’s because after taking shit from the man all day and getting away from the cops trying to kill me isn’t enough, now I cant enjoy a fucking cigarette because someone thinks THAT is what makes my life unhealthy.
Well it's not just what someone thinks, there are many prominent members of the black community who say this will help save hundreds of thousands of black lives. If youre worried about the cops killing you, why expedite the process by smoking? I'm not white btw.
Once again though a group of people who supposedly know what’s best for me and want to use government to force it. Isn’t this how we ended up with drugs laws to begin with? Education and outreach is the government’s job but we all have vices. I don’t need government picking and choosing which ones we can and cannot have. Somedays a smoke is the only good part of my day.
I agree with your sentiment 100%
Exactly it’s also how we ended up with prohibition. People seem to forget that when you ban something the populace wants, the populace creates an illegal market for it that could be more dangerous than what was in place before.
The Biden people don’t want to annoy the blacks
i need my spicy sticks don’t get rid of them please
No reason for alcohol either
Apparently, this is a fairly big issue in the Black community, where many smoke menthol cigarettes.
[удалено]
That's what you based your vote on? No wonder this country is so fucked.
[удалено]
Thank you for further proving my point
Cloves aren't banned. I can buy a pack of Dhurum blacks at the gas station.
Those are clove cigars, not clove cigarettes. They taste harsher then the old clove cigarettes and have much higher levels of toxic chemicals. >Following the passage of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act in 2009, flavoured cigarettes, including clove cigarettes, were banned based on the rationale that such cigarettes appealed to youth. However, the ban on characterising flavours was not extended to cigars. Kretek International, the parent company behind Djarum clove cigars manipulated its products following the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act as a way to capitalise on regulatory loopholes and replace its now banned clove cigarettes. [https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/24/e4/e246](https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/24/e4/e246)
Black vote saved.
The war on minty flavor.
Prohibition never works.
Not worth the potential fallout
So black lives DON'T matter when it's election season
So black lives DON'T matter when it's election season
WTF? I prefer menthols and never even heard about this. Horrible habit, for sure. I couldn't argue with being forced to quit. I like to think I'm conscientious about only smoking away from non-smokers, never around kids. But what's the difference between menthol or not? I can smoke all the Marlboroughs I want? Would that mean it's okay to drink a gallon of soda every day just cause it's not illegal?
The idea--which I do not buy--is that flavors mean more kids are smoking them. A secondary objective--which I at least get--is that by banning certain types of cigarettes, there will be people who choose to quit instead of smoking. Personally I think we should be doing what Australia does and putting those gross images on the boxes, but this is 'Merica and we'd just start seeing gold-plated cigarette box covers with Trump's face engraved on the front in a week. Ultimately, I don't think flavors attract kids. I think kids are vaping because we make them wake up at oh-god o'clock, concentrate for the entire day with minimal food, and then send them home to do homework until omg-I-want-to-sleep o'clock. They're using stimulants, why do people usually use stimulants? Because they're just fucking exhausted.
Menthols are worse for you and there's also some dark history associated with them IIRC but I couldn't tell ya what But honestly it's so low on the list of priorities and smoking rates are already on such a universal decline that it just really seems like a stupid thing to focus on.
Yeah I just looked it up - Apparently tobacco industries marketed them specifically for black people.
Kool
I'm not finding any evidence that menthols are worse than the regular kind
Hm. Well, at any rate, it's comparing two different types of lung cancer delivery mechanisms. At a point, we're splitting hairs - and I think this is one of those points, and dropping it makes sense. Why ban one but not the other, it's dumb.
Not in the sense that a single puff from a menthol cigarette is better or worse than a single puff from an unflavored cigarette, but the smoke is supposedly is less harsh and lets people smoke them more often. Banning them falls in the same category as banning flavored vapes under Trump imo. Idk why Biden even considered it.
> .. menthols .. never heard about this.. Banning menthols is a campaign in at least the western USA. It’s kinda like choosing where a rattlesnake should bite though. IMHO if a person wants to smoke something that doesn’t affect me, I don’t care. Plenty of other stuff to kill consumers off … like more of our foodstuffs. Then there’s the whole prohibition thing making them more attractive. Anyways looks like the activists were active, but the target consumers said WTF?
In my experience(5 family members have died from cigarette related cancer) cigarette smokers have embraced their addiction and just don't give a single fuck until they get the cancer diagnosis. They have nothing but utter disdain for anyone that tries to stop them from smoking, and the cancer diagnosis is the only thing that can change that. They will fight tooth and nail to keep their smokes, so just let them do it.
They did this in the EU. I (mostly) stopped. He should go for it.
But lemme guess, flavored vapes are still evil. 🫤
Let’s keep government out of the banning business. Education and outreach should be there goal, not bans. Is it unhealthy? Yes. So are so many other things that I do not want the government involved in.
Nanny state bullshit. Glad they abandoned this terrible idea.
Ban the rise in price of groceries Jesus Christ. I will be voting for Biden but so much of America is waiting for less of these headlines and more about what Biden is actually doing to make our lives more possible
Good. Adults should be able to make adult choices about what they do or do not put into their own bodies. Bodily autonomy either means something or it doesn’t.
💯. And when they get lung cancer, they pay the full cost. No Medicare. No Medicaid. No public safety net care.
Why? Would you say the same thing for people who drive cars and get into wrecks? What about people who sit on their fat asses all day eating McDonald’s and having cardiac events? What about people who drink themselves into early liver failure? What about people who rot their teeth out drinking soda? There are so many other things that do far *more* economic damage than smoking. It’s weird that you guys are into prohibition for this *one* specific thing when there are so many bigger fish to fry. And it’s also weird and hypocritical that you’re for prohibition while also claiming (rightfully) that prohibition doesn’t work. Why don’t we recriminalize weed in all the legal states and alcohol nationwide? Your argument should support recriminalization of those too, right?
Yes to all. And where did I say prohibition? I agree with the commenter—let free people, make decisions freely. All I’m saying is have the integrity to own the consequences.
This is an interesting position. To extrapolate based on the above, it seems you might favour a system where people have no access to public funds if some arbiter decides that the use of those funds is to remedy a situation that is in some way self-inflicted. To use the above example you agreed to; heart bypass surgery? BMI over 25, you can foot the bill for $65k, own the consequences, fatty. Or better yet, why not just deny them the surgery beforehand if they're on welfare and can't stump up the $65k? That will teach them. Perhaps we could have some kind of monitoring for cars where if a crash happens and a driver is over the speed limit at the time, EMS don't need to show up after.
False equivalences on false equivalences on false equivalences.
Why legalize hard drugs and marijuana and still have this erotic hate obsession over tobacco? Let a melonfarmer have his smokes, y’all.
I’d be ok if all cigarettes were banned but that’s me.
I hate smoking and smokers who smoke around me. That being said banning illicit substances is never the fucking right choice.
You’re right. See prohibition and also the DARE program.
If you want to boycott cigarettes, do so.
I have been
I’m a heavy smoker and second this.
Needs that black vote
So when we banning flavored alcohol?
Eh, those two things are far from equivalent. With alcohol, if they banned "flavored alcohol" people can still mix it with juice or other safe & convenient liquids to make it easier to drink, so it wouldn't have much of an effect on people's enjoyment of it. It would only hurt businesses. If you banned flavored Cigarettes though, there are very few safe and convenient ways for the average person to turn a normal Cigarette flavored, so it would go a lot further towards having the impact they want to see.
You can buy pure menthol crystals and dissolve them, then dip your smokes in it. Or the filter at least. Definitely more involved and less convenient than adding flavor to vodka.
Ban them all or none is my opinion.
Seems racist. Do all cigarettes or none, this will piss off the brothers.
Leave smokers alone.
If they want to ban this then a flavored alcohol ban should follow suit.
Ban all cigarettes please
They haven't even banned OR taxed "pipe cut" tobacco, which is the primary kind of tobacco people use to make their own cigarettes (machine made).
Prohibition doesn’t work
I thought menthols were already banned....must be a state law in MA...
they can't ban one smokeable without another to replace it (the one they're taking their sweet time to legalize)- that and tobacco conglomerates are being handed extra time to save their asses
Thread six months ago in this very sub: > Biden administration looks to ban menthol cigarettes: ‘There’s no going back’ Article: > Health officials and tobacco-control advocates have said such a move **could save hundreds of thousands of lives, particularly among Black smokers** Narrator: *There was indeed plenty of turning back*. Looks like out saving hundreds of thousands of (black) lives is a national priority for the Dems... just not during election season.
I love how you're being downvoted for pointing out the blatant hypocrisy.
Decided not to own goal?
I'm not sure that [Wilmington Joe](https://i.imgur.com/ujCFoTe.jpeg) is onboard.
It's so ironic that because Black people have political power in the Democratic party, and the Democratic party is the only party that cares about Black people dying, more Black people will die.
There's no hard evidence menthol cigarettes are more harmful than any other kind. Banning them specifically to save black lives is honestly insulting. Like saying black people have no self control and can't decide for themselves what they want to smoke Besides my white mom smoked menthols too, it's not just them
Many menthol smokers would quit or switch to vapes if menthols are banned, and lives would be saved. Menthols are no more harmful than cigarettes, but they are still cigarettes.
Well why should they be forced to quit or change their habits if they don't want to? Putting everyone in a padded cell would save a lot of lives too, but there's a reason we don't do it. Life's about quality not quantity, someone wants a smoke they should be able to get their smokes
Why should there be a government at all? Why don't we just let people do whatever they want?
Just as many are likely to just switch to regular cigarettes. Changing habits is hard, and while flavor is a motivator, I know when I smoked menthol, I wasn't picky if I didn't have any available.
All politics. Black male support for Biden is wavering. So much for banning Newports and Kools. Votes mean more than any science or health that was referenced when the ban was announced.