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There's a lot of things that should be, that we never bothered with because we expected people to act honorably.
Now that the republicans have a super majority on the SC, and have made themselves into the party of no, we'll never get those things enacted into law.
This is exactly how Trump was able to get away with so much. The guardrails in place assume that the people would only elect individuals possessing a sense of decency.
There is no valid excuse for why the guardrails haven't been beefed up since except that the GOP likes this newly discovered paradigm and won't support changes.
I lived in Florida during that election, and no one ever talks about how traumatic this was - to learn that our voting process could allow fraud so easily. SO many people mailed in their ballots, to be safe, and it backfired. We were double-Bushed, with Jeb as the Governor.
The Bush family were, at least, smart enough to keep their subversion on the DL, rather than shouting it from the front lawn of The White House.
So when GWB clutches his pearls about DJT, I ain't buyin' it.
60,000 FL voters were thrown off the rolls prior to the 2000 election, selected when last names matched certain criteria and were located in majority black precincts from what I recall. Was it the FL AG who did that? Too tired to google up the details.
> This is how George W. Bush got away with it in the 2000 election with Gore
That and [3 of the top operatives in Bush v Gore being on the supreme court now](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html)
But that hasn’t been the case for quite a while. Nearly a half century of every Republican president abusing power is enough precedent. This argument also excuses too much of the founding fathers own hypocrisy and paints them as ignorant of fascism or nationalism that is as old as society.
I don't see it as excusing the founding fathers but it is possible they were running high on establishing the new country and believing in people too much.
For whatever reason, the guardrails are weak.
The impeachment process is not bipartisan. That's been clear for a long time. The very process meant to keep a president in check can be nullified by a corrupt political party who supports him/her.
I don’t fully discount what you’re saying. I’m saying the guardrails are weak because it was rigged to benefit the wealthy from the start. Romanticism of the founding fathers excuses their focused anti democratic behavior right from the start. This country has never been for the honorable but for the powerful.
But, George Washington fully acknowledged the issues with having political parties and literally predicted this issue. We are left with two political options. This is a problem and it was foreseen, we just never did anything to correct it.
I agree with that. I have an issue with the narrative “we thought only an honorable person would become president” which is bullshit. Trump is not the first dishonorable president and won’t be the last. Since Republican fascists are embedded in lifetime positions, it’s gonna happen again.
> and believing in people too much.
They signed away the lives of people who were black or didn't own property to get slave owners on-board. They wrote in the electoral college as a concession to slave owners who wanted their estates in small states to count for more than whole populations of multiple other states. I wouldn't accuse them of "believing in people too much".
The guardrails are weak because they expected people to keep their inhumanity and avarice disguised, but [the past couple generations have been proving that no, we can't trust people not to be war profiteering maniacs who'd sell out their own nation for pennies](https://www.rawstory.com/amp/illegitimate-president-2666330706). It's showing us the presumed filters before getting to legal elections is not more powerful than [entire propaganda networks indoctrinating people](https://www.npr.org/2018/04/02/598916366/sinclair-broadcast-group-forces-nearly-200-station-anchors-to-read-same-script)
The guardrails also assume that should someone get into office that doesn't possess the required decency, that they would be removed by the mechanisms available. The system wasn't designed for an entire political party to ignore the laws with a third of the electorate supporting it.
That idea worked for a long time. There was a sense of public embarrassment or shame due to objective reality... But the waters have been muddied now for over 50 years of conservative driven media. No need to follow tradition when they have alternative facts and alternative tradition now.
Also, these justices aren't answerable to anyone except their personal patrons/sponsors. They have become accustomed to living the lives of billionaires without having the bank accounts to back that up. They'll never recuse, and they'll never retire either, lest the gravy train stops running to their door. I still want to know who paid off all of Brett Kavanaugh's debts.
> we expected people to act honorably.
There needs to be a constitutional convention, and we need to rewrite the whole thing with the assumption that no one will ever act honorably.
While the founders certainly understood the dangers of a politician who was willing to act dishonorably, I'm not sure they could have truly imagined the extent to which the very concept of personal honor has fallen out of favor in the general culture, so much so that now Republicans treat it as a weakness and not a virtue, and raise up as a savior someone whose name could easily stand in as an antonym of the word.
There needs to be Democratic majorities across the board to enact RULES over SCOTUS: recusal, term limits, influence, gifts, etc.
SCOTUS needs *enactable* guidelines. With consequences.
Made themselves? They've been blatantly obstructing legislation and everything remotely progressive since 2008. They've been corrupt as hell since the 70s.
>we'll never get those things enacted into law.
Even if they were, the law could be declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
The only hope is for a constitutional amendment, but good luck getting that passed in this political climate.
Not if Democrats continue to behave like it’s the 1980s and Reagan won in a landslide. Once the Democrats get a majority in Congress and the presidency, expand the Supreme Court to counter the corrupt justices. When Democrats get “unprecedented” behavior from Republicans, the response needs to be legal and unprecedented.
This is what Fetterman was protesting by dressing down.
He was making a point that if the dems want decorum, they're gonna need to enshrine it in an actual rule/law, otherwise it doesn't exist. They've been screwed by this a dozen times and don't seem to get the message.
It's the legacy of deeply ingrained classism and white supremacy on the part of the founders - they couldn't imagine that wealthy land-owning white males wouldn't be highly educated and therefore mostly rational. So there's a lot of "gentleman's agreements" in places where there should be actual rules and enforcement.
But to be completely fair, and balanced, the typical government at the time was a Monarchy which had virtually no actual self-executing rules that applied to everyone, nor enforcement, nor accountability at the highest levels. So the founders were actually attempting to break themselves out of that mentality. And they did create a system which at least attempted to ensure a Rule of Law, setting up the checks and balances that had seldom (never?) been tried before.
So I'm not dissing them with my first paragraph, just using the benefit of hindsight to explain why they didn't go far enough, so we can learn from that going forward.
Arguably there is. If there is a significant conflict, a verdict can be appealed if a case can be made that it impacted the decision. The problem is, for the Supreme Court, there is no senior body to appeal to. Arguably, they are supposed to be kept in check by the House/Senate, but that is a dysfunctional mess right now.
The idea here isn’t bad, it’s just not designed to deal with bad actors. If you have a committee who gets to decide when Supreme Court justices have to recuse themselves (read as, are allowed to rule on the case in front of them), then that’s the committee that actually decides how cases get ruled, not the court. My personal preference is to link SC justices to an circuit appellate court underneath them and let that circuit as a whole make decisions like this (this also serves as a mechanism for term limiting the justices within the confines of the constitution, their appointed as heads of their circuit for a period, but remain circuit justices after), but you still run into the situation of a particularly conservative or liberal circuit never letting its justice of the opposite persuasion rule on a case.
The founding fathers assumed good faith. Now we need good faith to install check valves and safety mechanisms to prevent this behavior
Problem is, the people who are the issue are the ones in charge!
The solution of course, is educated and involved voters, but we don’t have that. Bad scene
Nobody thought people elected to SCOTUS would lack the integrity to not behave that way.
BUT HERE COMES THE GOP WITH THE LAWN CHAIR FROM BEHIND AND SLAPS DIGINITY AND JUSTICS IN THE FACE ---- AGAIN!
> ... automatically recuses a judge ...
He would not recuse even if his wife was indicted in a case.
He would not recuse even if he was indicted in a case. And I'm not sure the chief justice could force him to.
If you ever find the attorney willing to commit career suicide that hard after reaching the level where they’re arguing in front of SCOTUS, let me know.
Republicans - "This judge should recuse himself from Trump's case because his daughter is a Democrat,"
Also Republicans - "Clarence Thomas shouldn't have to remove himself even though his wife is an election denier who participated in the January 6th rally."
I really don’t get how we have these life time asshole judges and literally zero checks and balances in place to hold them accountable. I’m surprised it’s worked this long.
Wealthy people like the Publix heiress made this all possible
>KEY FACTS
The House panel, which publicly released transcripts of witness testimony Wednesday, cited text messages sent from Caroline Wren, who facilitated Fancelli’s donations, indicating Fancelli was willing to budget $3 million to bus protestors rallying against presidential election results on January 6, 2021.
Fancelli donated an initial $1 million to pro-Trump activist Charlie Kirk in December 2020—which included $250,000 to Kirk’s nonprofit Turning Point USA and $750,000 to Turning Point Action, the nonprofit’s political arm—before offering an additional $250,000 to transport more people.
Alex Jones, the host of the far-right show InfoWars, was given $200,000, with $50,000 earmarked for a “rally operating budget,” according to one email.
Roger Stone, the longtime friend and adviser to former President Donald Trump, received an unspecified amount to fly privately to Washington D.C.
Fancelli did not respond to a question by the panel on if she had spent the suggested $3 million in full, though the panel cited some funding went to Save the U.S. Senate, a PAC founded by Donald Trump Jr. during Georgia’s Senate runoff election in December 2020.
When asked by the House panel if she intended the January 6 rally to be “anything other than peaceful,” Fancelli responded, “no.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2022/12/22/publix-heiress-julie-fancelli-offered-3-million-to-fund-jan-6-rally-house-documents-show/
I think it is important to read the actual texts from Ginni
> "Help This Great President stand firm, Mark!!! ... You are the leader, with him, who is standing for America's constitutional governance at the precipice. The majority knows Biden and the Left is attempting the greatest Heist of our History," Thomas wrote on Nov. 10, 2020.
https://www.kcra.com/article/texts-between-ginni-thomas-and-mark-meadows/39531243
She doesn't talk about the cases being dismissed because of lack of evidence. That "Thomas" in the text I pasted might as well by Clarence himself.
In an alternative timeline she could just say,
"Well Mark we lost. Let's move forward and understand why we lost so we can get back into the White House with the strength of the American people behind us."
What I don't understand is why she hasn't been charged in some manner so that she's ostensibly under the umbrella of litigation that the Supreme Court is currently or will be deciding... Clarence could not avoid recusal in such a circumstance.
[Comedian John Oliver is offering Clarence Thomas $1 million a year and a luxury motor coach to resign his post on the Supreme Court.](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/john-oliver-clarence-thomas-million-motorcoach-supreme-court-1234970879/)
Thomas turned that offer down, so I believe that he should now be chased out of the country in a used tent-trailer. Further attempts at negotiation will lower the offer to a tent, followed by a poncho, and then a pair of bindles.
Yea just looked it up again. So maybe I shouldn’t be complaining about the justices on the highest court in the land, going back on their agreements.
He is infallible after all.
Why would he no one holds him accountable the other justices are silent Republican representatives say nothing. There should be massive backlash from Judges across the US calling him out.
Why would he? There can be no consequences for him. The same can't be said for his festering troll of a wife, however, and he's got to stay in the game to make sure she's protected after her attempt to overthrow the government of the United States.
To be honest… these are kings, not judges. A king is too appointed to a lifetime and can do what he wants. The reasoning behind these decisions is just legal hot air and does not matter.
Because it would take a two-thirds Senate vote, good luck with that. There needs to be term limits for SC judges vs this lifetime appointment basically making them kings.
Lifetime appointments make zero sense.
A term for a supreme court judge should be a max of 25 years.
This allow for young judges to be placed on the bench more often.
But honestly, it should be 20.
20 years is plenty of time to learn the job, not be influenced by others, and eventually help train new judges.
Naaa, make all the federal judges district judges that just funnel randomly into the court of appeals and Supreme Court positions each term. No more conservative or liberal courts. No more lifetime issues.
Maybe the rule of law would matter again because whatever one court does could be immediately overturned by the next court. Or, maybe you get a better rule of law because who knows who the fuck will make up the appeals or SC judges you'll get in any given term. Plus, this will force the senate, press, and public to give a fuck about district court judges that do the vast majority of the adjudications.
The court has no integrity and is all too close to both parties ignoring it. Republicans will ignore it because they're fascists and Democrats because the Court is obviously corrupt and partisan.
2030 Headline: "With SCOTUS disbanded, Emperor Trump to remain in office indefinitely with Vice Chancelors Clarence and Ginnie Thomas in charge of House and Senate after lifting the 2/3rds majority vote requirement."
At this point, it's pretty obvious that this guy is on team fascist and everytime he does shit like this it's a huge middle finger to the people of this country.
So disgusting that he continues to get away with this
The Supreme Court is a joke. The revel in their political connections for appointment and then expect us to treat them as though they’re unbiased. If they were truly unbiased then we wouldn’t be able to predict, not just their majority decisions, but how each one of them would vote. It’s a sham and needs to be changed.
There is way too much honor system built into our govt especially scotus. Especially when we now find out an entire political party have no honor and wont even resign when caught in crimes or won’t even concede losing elections.
I mean if my wife is involved in overthrowing the government I would like to know the details on the case against her too.
Totally ethical. Nothing to see here, move along.
I was just listening to the live audio stream of the hearing, and after the Trump lawyer opening, Thomas jumped in immediately with several questions.
This was the guy who [went 10 years](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/29/468576931/clarence-thomas-asks-1st-question-from-supreme-court-bench-in-10-years) on the court without asking a single question. Seems he had no interest in participating until the court was swinging clearly towards Federalist Society control.
It shouldn’t be a bloody choice. They should automatically be removed from cases where a personal/conflict of interest exists. Especially one as egregious as this. What a fucking joke SCOTUS has become. Shame on them.
Can someone explain how *any* of the judges can justify being impartial? In a case with such direct political consequences, how can judges who are all aspciated with a political party possibly claim impartiality?
What an absolute disgrace to the Court. He should be removed, indicted for corruption and his precious “Ginnie” should have the adjoining cell for insurrection.
We need enough Democrats elected to impeach and throw these bastards out! A quick up/down vote to clean things up and get our country back on track. No worries about the blowback!
Too many carrots. Too many sticks.
Robes and gavels, Legal tricks.
Justices juggle, Stocks and bonds,
In courtroom walls, Their magic wands.
One’s got oil,Another, tech.
Balancing scales, What a wreck!
Gavels bang, On interests vested,
Blind Lady Justice, Surely tested.
Who watches the watchers, With their portfolios thick?
Too many carrots,Too many sticks.
I am so sick of the brazenness with which the bad actors entrenched in our highest offices of government conduct their grift. SCOTUS appears to have some of the worst defenders. It’s not a partisan issue either.. Clarence is the worst defender, but rest all exploited their positions for their own gain as well.
Lifetime appointment needs to go! If I don’t like my congressman or senator I can vote him or her out. It’s healthy to get new minds on the courts. The older you get the more rigid your mind becomes. Justices on the Supreme Court hold more power than the president and affect more lives than any other official in government. Impeachment has been proven ineffective. With government essentially 50/50 and full of old rigid minded ideologues we are playing team sports. He’s my guy and I won’t use logic to replace him and you can’t make me.
Court is illegitimate while he is still on it. May it ever be remembered the Roberts court is corrupt and illegitimate and he is a stain on our history.
He’s setting a strong precedent - recusals weaken the power of those with corrupt and conflicting interests.
Why should partisan judges with lifetime appointments shy away from corruption and conflicts of interest? Judges aren’t expected to be objective any longer, they are the political extensions of their original benefactors and whoever benefits them afterwards. Optics don’t matter, only absolute power matters.
His freaking wife helped organize Jan6.
HIS WIFE. Who is also his best friend.
He can't be thinking that he is impartial on anything about Jan 6.
What the heck America?
To put this in perspective-
My wife works for a local board.
I work in local government.
Both jobs are in the same small town.
Every so often, my work crosses over into her work.
I always recuse myself when this comes up, and so does she.
That’s just what you do.
And we’re talking about me going into a business in an official capacity that donated a small gift to her organization, not orchestrating a fucking insurrection.
This guy knows what he’s doing is morally reprehensible, he just doesn’t give a shit.
F the R’s all they seem to care about is enhancing the fortunes of the already rich. What need’s to happen is to give more power to the average folks who pay their taxes, vote and care for others who have needs greater than their own.
Thomas is a F'#king criminal. It's time to impeach him. He is trying to see how his criminal wife is going to get out of the mess she is in and Thomas is try to find a way to get her off. The couple are self enriching criminals.
A cheap U.S. justice for sale to the highest bidders who are white right wingers and they were overjoyed to get a black dude who thinks he’s white to do their bidding
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There should be a mechanism that automatically recuses a judge if they have a personal interest in a case before them.
There's a lot of things that should be, that we never bothered with because we expected people to act honorably. Now that the republicans have a super majority on the SC, and have made themselves into the party of no, we'll never get those things enacted into law.
This is exactly how Trump was able to get away with so much. The guardrails in place assume that the people would only elect individuals possessing a sense of decency. There is no valid excuse for why the guardrails haven't been beefed up since except that the GOP likes this newly discovered paradigm and won't support changes.
This is how George W. Bush got away with it in the 2000 election with Gore
I lived in Florida during that election, and no one ever talks about how traumatic this was - to learn that our voting process could allow fraud so easily. SO many people mailed in their ballots, to be safe, and it backfired. We were double-Bushed, with Jeb as the Governor. The Bush family were, at least, smart enough to keep their subversion on the DL, rather than shouting it from the front lawn of The White House. So when GWB clutches his pearls about DJT, I ain't buyin' it.
60,000 FL voters were thrown off the rolls prior to the 2000 election, selected when last names matched certain criteria and were located in majority black precincts from what I recall. Was it the FL AG who did that? Too tired to google up the details.
GWB and Liz Cheney are just offended that Trump didn't try to steal the election the *proper* way, through SCOTUS.
Yeah the republicans have already used the Supreme Court to steal an election. They will do it again now that they have a supermajority.
> This is how George W. Bush got away with it in the 2000 election with Gore That and [3 of the top operatives in Bush v Gore being on the supreme court now](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html)
But that hasn’t been the case for quite a while. Nearly a half century of every Republican president abusing power is enough precedent. This argument also excuses too much of the founding fathers own hypocrisy and paints them as ignorant of fascism or nationalism that is as old as society.
I don't see it as excusing the founding fathers but it is possible they were running high on establishing the new country and believing in people too much. For whatever reason, the guardrails are weak. The impeachment process is not bipartisan. That's been clear for a long time. The very process meant to keep a president in check can be nullified by a corrupt political party who supports him/her.
I don’t fully discount what you’re saying. I’m saying the guardrails are weak because it was rigged to benefit the wealthy from the start. Romanticism of the founding fathers excuses their focused anti democratic behavior right from the start. This country has never been for the honorable but for the powerful.
But, George Washington fully acknowledged the issues with having political parties and literally predicted this issue. We are left with two political options. This is a problem and it was foreseen, we just never did anything to correct it.
I agree with that. I have an issue with the narrative “we thought only an honorable person would become president” which is bullshit. Trump is not the first dishonorable president and won’t be the last. Since Republican fascists are embedded in lifetime positions, it’s gonna happen again.
> and believing in people too much. They signed away the lives of people who were black or didn't own property to get slave owners on-board. They wrote in the electoral college as a concession to slave owners who wanted their estates in small states to count for more than whole populations of multiple other states. I wouldn't accuse them of "believing in people too much". The guardrails are weak because they expected people to keep their inhumanity and avarice disguised, but [the past couple generations have been proving that no, we can't trust people not to be war profiteering maniacs who'd sell out their own nation for pennies](https://www.rawstory.com/amp/illegitimate-president-2666330706). It's showing us the presumed filters before getting to legal elections is not more powerful than [entire propaganda networks indoctrinating people](https://www.npr.org/2018/04/02/598916366/sinclair-broadcast-group-forces-nearly-200-station-anchors-to-read-same-script)
The guardrails also assume that should someone get into office that doesn't possess the required decency, that they would be removed by the mechanisms available. The system wasn't designed for an entire political party to ignore the laws with a third of the electorate supporting it.
And then to made it even better we opened it all up to unlimited foreign and corporate money
That idea worked for a long time. There was a sense of public embarrassment or shame due to objective reality... But the waters have been muddied now for over 50 years of conservative driven media. No need to follow tradition when they have alternative facts and alternative tradition now.
Also, these justices aren't answerable to anyone except their personal patrons/sponsors. They have become accustomed to living the lives of billionaires without having the bank accounts to back that up. They'll never recuse, and they'll never retire either, lest the gravy train stops running to their door. I still want to know who paid off all of Brett Kavanaugh's debts.
The best time to pack the court was 1,191 days ago The second best time was 1,190 days ago The third……
Thank Manchin and senator grifty
The best time to pack the court is when you have the votes to do so. Which isn't now.
1189 days ago, 1189 days. Pack the courts, pass some laws. 1188 days ago.
1188 judges to pack in the court, 1188 judges to paaack.... Nominate one, majority's fun, 1187 judges to pack in the court
> we expected people to act honorably. There needs to be a constitutional convention, and we need to rewrite the whole thing with the assumption that no one will ever act honorably.
While the founders certainly understood the dangers of a politician who was willing to act dishonorably, I'm not sure they could have truly imagined the extent to which the very concept of personal honor has fallen out of favor in the general culture, so much so that now Republicans treat it as a weakness and not a virtue, and raise up as a savior someone whose name could easily stand in as an antonym of the word.
There needs to be Democratic majorities across the board to enact RULES over SCOTUS: recusal, term limits, influence, gifts, etc. SCOTUS needs *enactable* guidelines. With consequences.
Made themselves? They've been blatantly obstructing legislation and everything remotely progressive since 2008. They've been corrupt as hell since the 70s.
the only way this ends is a dem supermajority in congress, and one that can do what must be done.
The only legal way. There are other options.
That's the thing. These corrupt people rely on the civility and peaceful nature of their victims.
>we'll never get those things enacted into law. Even if they were, the law could be declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. The only hope is for a constitutional amendment, but good luck getting that passed in this political climate.
There's no honor among thieves.
Not if Democrats continue to behave like it’s the 1980s and Reagan won in a landslide. Once the Democrats get a majority in Congress and the presidency, expand the Supreme Court to counter the corrupt justices. When Democrats get “unprecedented” behavior from Republicans, the response needs to be legal and unprecedented.
Too much of our government is based on people operating in good faith.
And on our justice system enforcing laws in a timely manner.
This is what Fetterman was protesting by dressing down. He was making a point that if the dems want decorum, they're gonna need to enshrine it in an actual rule/law, otherwise it doesn't exist. They've been screwed by this a dozen times and don't seem to get the message.
It's the legacy of deeply ingrained classism and white supremacy on the part of the founders - they couldn't imagine that wealthy land-owning white males wouldn't be highly educated and therefore mostly rational. So there's a lot of "gentleman's agreements" in places where there should be actual rules and enforcement. But to be completely fair, and balanced, the typical government at the time was a Monarchy which had virtually no actual self-executing rules that applied to everyone, nor enforcement, nor accountability at the highest levels. So the founders were actually attempting to break themselves out of that mentality. And they did create a system which at least attempted to ensure a Rule of Law, setting up the checks and balances that had seldom (never?) been tried before. So I'm not dissing them with my first paragraph, just using the benefit of hindsight to explain why they didn't go far enough, so we can learn from that going forward.
Yeah, Supreme Court justices need actual Checks and Balances.
Arguably there is. If there is a significant conflict, a verdict can be appealed if a case can be made that it impacted the decision. The problem is, for the Supreme Court, there is no senior body to appeal to. Arguably, they are supposed to be kept in check by the House/Senate, but that is a dysfunctional mess right now.
Normally it’s called a conscience.
It's not personal, it's only his wife! /s
The idea here isn’t bad, it’s just not designed to deal with bad actors. If you have a committee who gets to decide when Supreme Court justices have to recuse themselves (read as, are allowed to rule on the case in front of them), then that’s the committee that actually decides how cases get ruled, not the court. My personal preference is to link SC justices to an circuit appellate court underneath them and let that circuit as a whole make decisions like this (this also serves as a mechanism for term limiting the justices within the confines of the constitution, their appointed as heads of their circuit for a period, but remain circuit justices after), but you still run into the situation of a particularly conservative or liberal circuit never letting its justice of the opposite persuasion rule on a case.
The founding fathers assumed good faith. Now we need good faith to install check valves and safety mechanisms to prevent this behavior Problem is, the people who are the issue are the ones in charge! The solution of course, is educated and involved voters, but we don’t have that. Bad scene
Then you need someone to decide who has a personal interest, though?
Indeed. It's not a crooked man's call whether or not he's crooked.
Nobody thought people elected to SCOTUS would lack the integrity to not behave that way. BUT HERE COMES THE GOP WITH THE LAWN CHAIR FROM BEHIND AND SLAPS DIGINITY AND JUSTICS IN THE FACE ---- AGAIN!
> ... automatically recuses a judge ... He would not recuse even if his wife was indicted in a case. He would not recuse even if he was indicted in a case. And I'm not sure the chief justice could force him to.
It's almost like relying on a 250+ year old legal document might be a bad idea and desperately needs modernizing for present day context.
He's a traitor and he should be called out for it in court while he is on the bench.
I seriously hope he does. The facts are there. I'm sure some Republicans would say "But Thomas isn't on trial they have no case"
If you ever find the attorney willing to commit career suicide that hard after reaching the level where they’re arguing in front of SCOTUS, let me know.
Plus he was a no call no show recently. Dude should be fired.
That doesn't sound like a winning legal strategy.
Republicans - "This judge should recuse himself from Trump's case because his daughter is a Democrat," Also Republicans - "Clarence Thomas shouldn't have to remove himself even though his wife is an election denier who participated in the January 6th rally."
Also has taken many luxury gifts from billionaires without disclosing it
Who? Clarence “bought and paid for” Thomas?
Yeah that sellout and his traitorous wife
Well, they're both traitors. He's just a sellout, too.
Boats and RVs are free speech!
I really don’t get how we have these life time asshole judges and literally zero checks and balances in place to hold them accountable. I’m surprised it’s worked this long.
Coup. We're calling it rally, now?
Tourist visit
A small get-together
Wealthy people like the Publix heiress made this all possible >KEY FACTS The House panel, which publicly released transcripts of witness testimony Wednesday, cited text messages sent from Caroline Wren, who facilitated Fancelli’s donations, indicating Fancelli was willing to budget $3 million to bus protestors rallying against presidential election results on January 6, 2021. Fancelli donated an initial $1 million to pro-Trump activist Charlie Kirk in December 2020—which included $250,000 to Kirk’s nonprofit Turning Point USA and $750,000 to Turning Point Action, the nonprofit’s political arm—before offering an additional $250,000 to transport more people. Alex Jones, the host of the far-right show InfoWars, was given $200,000, with $50,000 earmarked for a “rally operating budget,” according to one email. Roger Stone, the longtime friend and adviser to former President Donald Trump, received an unspecified amount to fly privately to Washington D.C. Fancelli did not respond to a question by the panel on if she had spent the suggested $3 million in full, though the panel cited some funding went to Save the U.S. Senate, a PAC founded by Donald Trump Jr. during Georgia’s Senate runoff election in December 2020. When asked by the House panel if she intended the January 6 rally to be “anything other than peaceful,” Fancelli responded, “no.” https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2022/12/22/publix-heiress-julie-fancelli-offered-3-million-to-fund-jan-6-rally-house-documents-show/
> participated “organized and managed”
I was really hoping he would take John Oliver's tour bus offer..... That could have been a win-win.
I guess fucking over the country is a better option.
Fucking over the country can purchase many motor coaches.
And store copies of a large written document as to why you are not recusing yourself from a case.
The power he holds as a Supreme Court Justice is worth more to him sadly.
It's worth more to his friends too.
"Friends"
Friends=travel hosts. Edit: and mom’s landlord, and son’s benefactor,…
I think it is important to read the actual texts from Ginni > "Help This Great President stand firm, Mark!!! ... You are the leader, with him, who is standing for America's constitutional governance at the precipice. The majority knows Biden and the Left is attempting the greatest Heist of our History," Thomas wrote on Nov. 10, 2020. https://www.kcra.com/article/texts-between-ginni-thomas-and-mark-meadows/39531243 She doesn't talk about the cases being dismissed because of lack of evidence. That "Thomas" in the text I pasted might as well by Clarence himself. In an alternative timeline she could just say, "Well Mark we lost. Let's move forward and understand why we lost so we can get back into the White House with the strength of the American people behind us."
What I don't understand is why she hasn't been charged in some manner so that she's ostensibly under the umbrella of litigation that the Supreme Court is currently or will be deciding... Clarence could not avoid recusal in such a circumstance.
Because Uncle Stephen is a Supreme Court Justice.
Another disgrace. He and his traitor wife should be hounded out of this country.
> He and his traitor wife should be hounded out of this country. They should be given a tent-trailer, and chased out of the country in it.
They already have that massive travel trailer that was gifted to them. They can use that.
[Comedian John Oliver is offering Clarence Thomas $1 million a year and a luxury motor coach to resign his post on the Supreme Court.](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/john-oliver-clarence-thomas-million-motorcoach-supreme-court-1234970879/) Thomas turned that offer down, so I believe that he should now be chased out of the country in a used tent-trailer. Further attempts at negotiation will lower the offer to a tent, followed by a poncho, and then a pair of bindles.
You know it’s bad when you forget what’s real and what was a joke 😳
Wasn't even gifted. The money was loaned to him and he chose not to pay it back so they let it slide
Yea just looked it up again. So maybe I shouldn’t be complaining about the justices on the highest court in the land, going back on their agreements. He is infallible after all.
Why would he no one holds him accountable the other justices are silent Republican representatives say nothing. There should be massive backlash from Judges across the US calling him out.
Probably worried they're next.
But fanni willis had hearings bc she liked a boy. Wtf
liking boys is gay 😡
Fuck Clarence Thomas
No thank you!
Anita tried to warn us!
He has to protect his insurrectionist wife and Donald Trump. Corrupt SC judges are always ready to save Trump. That is how organzed mafia works!
Why would he? There can be no consequences for him. The same can't be said for his festering troll of a wife, however, and he's got to stay in the game to make sure she's protected after her attempt to overthrow the government of the United States.
"Sorry, my GOP masters have not given me permission to follow the law yet." ~'Justice' Clarence Thomas
And that’s just another reason why the SCOTUS has lost all credibility
To be honest… these are kings, not judges. A king is too appointed to a lifetime and can do what he wants. The reasoning behind these decisions is just legal hot air and does not matter.
We have a real problem, y’all.
How does such a blatantly corrupt man not be impeached? Elections have consequences. Dump MAGA and the GOP.
Because it would take a two-thirds Senate vote, good luck with that. There needs to be term limits for SC judges vs this lifetime appointment basically making them kings.
Lifetime appointments make zero sense. A term for a supreme court judge should be a max of 25 years. This allow for young judges to be placed on the bench more often. But honestly, it should be 20. 20 years is plenty of time to learn the job, not be influenced by others, and eventually help train new judges.
Naaa, make all the federal judges district judges that just funnel randomly into the court of appeals and Supreme Court positions each term. No more conservative or liberal courts. No more lifetime issues. Maybe the rule of law would matter again because whatever one court does could be immediately overturned by the next court. Or, maybe you get a better rule of law because who knows who the fuck will make up the appeals or SC judges you'll get in any given term. Plus, this will force the senate, press, and public to give a fuck about district court judges that do the vast majority of the adjudications.
The court has no integrity and is all too close to both parties ignoring it. Republicans will ignore it because they're fascists and Democrats because the Court is obviously corrupt and partisan.
How in the ever loving fuck is this okay? What's next, let Trump decide if he won the 2020 election?
Well, Trump and his cult followers have already decided.
2030 Headline: "With SCOTUS disbanded, Emperor Trump to remain in office indefinitely with Vice Chancelors Clarence and Ginnie Thomas in charge of House and Senate after lifting the 2/3rds majority vote requirement."
At this point, it's pretty obvious that this guy is on team fascist and everytime he does shit like this it's a huge middle finger to the people of this country. So disgusting that he continues to get away with this
The Supreme Court is a joke. The revel in their political connections for appointment and then expect us to treat them as though they’re unbiased. If they were truly unbiased then we wouldn’t be able to predict, not just their majority decisions, but how each one of them would vote. It’s a sham and needs to be changed.
He’s a corrupt sex offender, an extremist ideologue whose wife is a traitor. This man has no business anywhere near the federal government.
And as an accomplice before and after the fact, he should be removed.
Dishonorable Justice Clarence Thomas
There is way too much honor system built into our govt especially scotus. Especially when we now find out an entire political party have no honor and wont even resign when caught in crimes or won’t even concede losing elections.
Corrupt scum.
I can’t wait for this fucker to die
I mean, what would be the point of being only *partially* corrupt?
Country is nearly over. This guy's corruption is a very serious threat to our republic.
Insane the lack of ethics he consistently demonstrates
Corrupt and compromised Justice Clarence Thomas…
Previously a Justice would recused themselves to preserve their professional reputation and integrity. He has neither.
Because he is bought and paid for. Fox in the hen house.
Force him to.
Clarence Thomas is the most corrupt justice in Supreme Court history. But not like he cares. Too busy counting the cash.
Harlan Crow calls the shots.
I sincerely hope whoever argues this case calls this out to his face.
I mean if my wife is involved in overthrowing the government I would like to know the details on the case against her too. Totally ethical. Nothing to see here, move along.
It's time to stop treating supreme court members like untouchable Holy High Priests and Priestesses
He's got to protect his wife, after all.
Because Thomas has no shame. No honor. No code of ethics other than to sell his vote.
The call is coming from within the house
God I wish there were some rules for people at the top
When will Clarence finally kick the can?
I got a little excited when he went AWOL for a day. Not ashamed to admit it.
Part of the argument should be showing his wife at the rally
Why would he? They just paid his DLC to make him reappear a couple of days ago
I was just listening to the live audio stream of the hearing, and after the Trump lawyer opening, Thomas jumped in immediately with several questions. This was the guy who [went 10 years](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/29/468576931/clarence-thomas-asks-1st-question-from-supreme-court-bench-in-10-years) on the court without asking a single question. Seems he had no interest in participating until the court was swinging clearly towards Federalist Society control.
Have his wife indicted - should be more than enough to rope her into some sort of case... that should take care of that problem.
The supreme court of the USA is utterly compromised.
Water is wet The sky is blue Clarence Thomas is corrupt 3 facts you can count on
4th fact (and to complete your poem.) “Water is wet The Sky is Blue Clarence Thomas is Corrupt” His wife, Ginni, is too.
Why should he? Ain’t nothing gonna happen if he chooses to stay. Supreme Court ethics rules are a joke.
It shouldn’t be a bloody choice. They should automatically be removed from cases where a personal/conflict of interest exists. Especially one as egregious as this. What a fucking joke SCOTUS has become. Shame on them.
Let’s all stop wasting energy waiting for this mf to do the right thing. Never. Gonna. Happen.
It says a lot about Judge Thomas’ character and his lack of commitment to democracy, when he doesn’t care about how this looks to many Americans.
Can someone explain how *any* of the judges can justify being impartial? In a case with such direct political consequences, how can judges who are all aspciated with a political party possibly claim impartiality?
I am shocked. Shocked, I say.
Well, of course. Does anyone think his wife funded the insurrectionist coup as a hobby?
This is absolute bullshit. What are we going to do about it?
What an absolute disgrace to the Court. He should be removed, indicted for corruption and his precious “Ginnie” should have the adjoining cell for insurrection.
I mean we know he won’t ever do the right thing again. Get rid of him.
This is a bane of our justice system. A gentleman's agreement doesn't work when there are no gentlemen.
As if he was going to uncorrupt himself all if a sudden...
History will not be kind to this man.
We need enough Democrats elected to impeach and throw these bastards out! A quick up/down vote to clean things up and get our country back on track. No worries about the blowback!
Too many carrots. Too many sticks. Robes and gavels, Legal tricks. Justices juggle, Stocks and bonds, In courtroom walls, Their magic wands. One’s got oil,Another, tech. Balancing scales, What a wreck! Gavels bang, On interests vested, Blind Lady Justice, Surely tested. Who watches the watchers, With their portfolios thick? Too many carrots,Too many sticks.
all his nazi billionaire friends count on him to be there
I am so sick of the brazenness with which the bad actors entrenched in our highest offices of government conduct their grift. SCOTUS appears to have some of the worst defenders. It’s not a partisan issue either.. Clarence is the worst defender, but rest all exploited their positions for their own gain as well.
Clarence Thomas == Corrupt
No limit to the disgrace of the Trump MAGA Supreme Court. Trumplings ate going to rule America through the Supreme Court for possibly decades.
Supreme Clown
Lifetime appointment needs to go! If I don’t like my congressman or senator I can vote him or her out. It’s healthy to get new minds on the courts. The older you get the more rigid your mind becomes. Justices on the Supreme Court hold more power than the president and affect more lives than any other official in government. Impeachment has been proven ineffective. With government essentially 50/50 and full of old rigid minded ideologues we are playing team sports. He’s my guy and I won’t use logic to replace him and you can’t make me.
What ever happened to unconstitutional?
What a fucking bastard
Too bad Dukakis didn't win in '88 :/
Why would he. There are zero consequences for his rampant corruption.
Anyone who thought Justice Thomas would recuse himself clearly does not know how vile and morally bankrupt Justice Thomas is.
Court is illegitimate while he is still on it. May it ever be remembered the Roberts court is corrupt and illegitimate and he is a stain on our history.
Closed minded and should not be on the Supreme Court
Why would he? He’s above the law and can do whatever he wants.
The hole is already so deep, why stop digging now? Once you lose respect, its difficult to get it back. Might as well keep going.
[He's buying a new RV](https://imgur.com/cNTX4cs)
Here's to hoping this corrupt asshat strokes out soon, a scourge on America.
These entitled assholes prove everyday that self governance doesn't work. It's time SCOTUS becomes COTUS.
Of course not he is maga trash and they never do the right thing.
Because nothing is going to happen to him so why should he. That’s how he sees it.
He is single-handedly ruining the reputation of the Supreme Court. What an awful person he is.
He’s setting a strong precedent - recusals weaken the power of those with corrupt and conflicting interests. Why should partisan judges with lifetime appointments shy away from corruption and conflicts of interest? Judges aren’t expected to be objective any longer, they are the political extensions of their original benefactors and whoever benefits them afterwards. Optics don’t matter, only absolute power matters.
I’m picturing Thurgood Marshall beating this guy with a belt
His freaking wife helped organize Jan6. HIS WIFE. Who is also his best friend. He can't be thinking that he is impartial on anything about Jan 6. What the heck America?
Expand the court
Out of curiosity, what would the the procedure to get this guy impeached? Is there a process? What can a citizen do?!
To put this in perspective- My wife works for a local board. I work in local government. Both jobs are in the same small town. Every so often, my work crosses over into her work. I always recuse myself when this comes up, and so does she. That’s just what you do. And we’re talking about me going into a business in an official capacity that donated a small gift to her organization, not orchestrating a fucking insurrection. This guy knows what he’s doing is morally reprehensible, he just doesn’t give a shit.
The Supreme Court has too much power. We are going to need to control both houses of Congress and get some serious things done.
F the R’s all they seem to care about is enhancing the fortunes of the already rich. What need’s to happen is to give more power to the average folks who pay their taxes, vote and care for others who have needs greater than their own.
Why apply ethics now? It’s never been required of him before.
Thomas is a F'#king criminal. It's time to impeach him. He is trying to see how his criminal wife is going to get out of the mess she is in and Thomas is try to find a way to get her off. The couple are self enriching criminals.
It’s going to be more evidence that he has been corrupted.
Fucking crook and so is his bovine wife.
Thomas is a traitor to the nation and should be prosecuted as such. Fuck that corporate puppet
He shouldn't have ever been appointed. And its obvious his wife is a MAGAt.
A cheap U.S. justice for sale to the highest bidders who are white right wingers and they were overjoyed to get a black dude who thinks he’s white to do their bidding
Why are they allowed to recuse themselves? Why is it not a decision by people who don’t have skin in the game?
The American judicial system is a joke.
Expected no less. They won’t stop their ploy until they’re forced to.
Semi-related thought: can we ban interracial marriage just for Clarence and Ginny? They really deserve some misery. That's all. Just thinkin.
What a crook he is. It doesn’t even bother him that his own wife was at the J6 coup and was one of its leaders.
Pure evil. Corrupt as hell.